Emmy Award-winning science evangelist Bill Nye says he wanted to debate creationism guru Ken Ham because science literacy in America is both important and under siege.

To make his point, he used, like scientists do, rational thought, argument and fact-based evidence. His opponent, who believes in Noah and the flood, paraded a handful of scientists who are also creationists. And he argued whether observational science can be used to understand history. Which is kind of bonkers. Sorry to editorialize, but it’s just…bonkers.