“I think throwing out words like ‘heroes’ really does a disservice to the experience of veterans and all the innocent people that’ve been killed since [9/11],” says Roy Fanning, an Afghanistan veteran and author. Fanning joins Michael Hanes—an Iraq veteran now working for Veterans for Peace—and Truthdig columnist Chris Hedges in a recent episode of teleSUR’s “Days of Revolt.” The three begin by discussing the harsh realities of American soldiers interacting with the Middle Eastern communities they are conditioned to hate and how that leads to psychological and moral crises.

The conversation then turns to the recent attacks in Brussels. Fanning explains that “killing another human being is one of the most unnatural things you can do,” but that terrorists like those in Brussels are “conditioned to do it.” The two veterans discuss the prevalence of suicide among veterans, and they talk about how post-combat experiences have made them more political—Fanning is now a Donald Trump resister and Hanes has protested against military bases in Japan.

Watch the full interview below.

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