Political art on a wall in Washington, D.C. (Ted Eytan / CC BY-SA 2.0)

A cross-generational conversation between a Black Lives Matter founder and a trauma doctor, who is trying to redefine public health in terms of human wholeness, deals with the culture and society the movement is trying to create.

The conversation is hosted by Krista Tippett, who leads the podcast “On Being,” and appears here in its two-hour unedited version. Find the abridged version here.

Guest Patrisse Cullors is a co-founder of Black Lives Matter, director for truth and reinvestment at the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights, and a mixed-media and performance artist. Robert K. Ross is president and CEO of the California Endowment, as well as a physician and public health expert who studies how childhood trauma shapes the lives of troubled and chronically ill Americans.

—Posted by Alexander Reed Kelly.

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