Part 1:
JMCSwan: (any relation to The Ghost of Freedom Lost Anonymous?) Yes, that was my mother.  Remorse, public remorse, well I’ve heard a few exiting Washington crooked Republicans express remorse.  And didn’t Bill Clinton say he was sorry about the ML affair?  If there was any understanding of pain anybody experiences from the corridors of power, I guess I’d be thunderstruck. 

Pain as a noun, means physical suffering or distress due to injury, illness, etc.; a sudden sharp twinge; mental or emotional suffering or torment; also can mean laborious or careful efforts,or to cause mental or emotional pain; as a verb, means to have or give pain, to hurt Synonyms include: torture, misery, torment, ache, agony, anguish.  I know one ex-Marine who reads a lot of Bertrand Russell and Simon Blackburn and is touched by others’ pain.  No finer man lives and I am proud to call him my friend. 

I have seen many of Scott Ritter’s articles on Truthdig.  His criticism of September 7, 2007 of the war in Iraq was head on and bold saying “We don’t belong [in Iraq],” and what he says in his recent column “Taking a Stand Against War” and the Bush determination to have a war with Iran. I cannot disagree with him and he is one loud voice desperately needed in the airwaves.  I have a hard time believing he is Republican knowing what he seems to know.  Whatever he is, it would be good for him to endorse either Obama or McCain to see where the the cards of truth stack up.

If we want to say he changed from his conversation with Chalabi, and I don’t think he did, we would have to see where he was before the dinner and what he says in this article.  And let’s do remember that this article is March this year and the dinner was 10 years ago.  Isn’t that a long time acoming?  So any change that happened would have happened long before we ever knew of him. 

It is all we can all do to stay sane, JMCSwan, to withstand the manipulation of others.  You might be lucky that you wre able to “create a world that is even a little less insane.” And of course not you nor anyone can be responsible for other’s intentions.  We ourselves must remain authentic, genuine, sincere.  What contemptible Machiavellians do must be counteracted to whatever degree of power we have.  The entities that exist that only want power and to control the world, they aren’t satisfied with their own ambience, they covet everything and everybody. 

There are voices that have been clamoring against the treachery of devious corporate power all along:  John Edwards, Ralph Nader, even Hillary Clinton has spoken against corporate assumption of power and control over everything. You are right in your analogy of corporations to a virus.  Corporations see only profit margin and do not see any real humanity in existence except for that they want humanity to buy its products or other moneymaking programs. The snake eating its tail is an ancient logo and used by a lot of people.  The snake eating its own tail, called the Ouroboros, was made popular by Kurt Vonnegut in his Breakfast of Champions, also X-files Dana Scully had an ouroborus tatooed on her, James Bond, and often found among alchemists symbols.  But more than that it appears in almost every religon.  The self eating animal usually represents infinity or unity and even by Carl Jung who thought the tail-eater played a large part as an archetype in the human psyche.  Mike Ruppert’s comparison to corporate virulence sounds most appropriate.  Seems whoever it is walks a fine line between power and extreme power when it comes to the presidency.  Is it inescapable?  I think so.  If as you say it is only a matter of what concessions not whether there will be any, then we have a completely pessimistic future. 
Yes, “what about all those citizens who have a responsibility toward particpation in their Constitutional Republic.....?”

The thing is, all citizens have that responsibility, but most of the public do not even think about what is their responsibility.  There is a small segment of the population, count us among them, who are even conscious that there is a responsibility.  We attribute too much political intelligence to the general public.  Most people are too busy eking out a life.  I think the problem of vastness is at the root of a lot of what is perceived as apathy.  Expectations may be beyond what is reasonable from as large a population as we have.  That is why we need a democracy instead of a republic.
I get your analogy but I don’t agree with it.  I don’t see the demos as obstinate belligerent mules refusing to move, but rather as an ignorant sheep who need to be transformed through education into American Mustangs able to hold their own against the purebred Arabians. 

I don’t think it is a matter of moronic stupidity that “they” do not confront reality.  I think the powers that be know the reality and wish to change it to their own advantage.  They are perfect examples of the Thrasymachus character in Plato’s
Republic who recklessly defends injustice and staunchly claims that justice is the advantage of the stronger.  “They” do not want an egalitarian society even though they may sophistically say they do.  But do you think we are headed for a totalitarian-like state of government?  I think there are too many watchers out here, don’t you think there are enough?

I agree with the face-to-face honest conversation.  I found some folks I’ve met on the forums as honest, but not very many.  Some I thought were, turned out to be chimeras.  Very disappointing.  I don’t know about that word love.  Seems to me to be as I’ve said elsewhere, a hypothetical construct.  We create our worlds and those we want to love.  Your brother was still feeling his pain.  He has to lick his wounds yet.  You intruded on his hurting psyche.  Mugabe torturing children now, either each human being has value or we are just hypocrites when we say that.
I’ve enjoyed the conversation JMCSwan.

Shenonymous (part 2)

You ask who I refer to as ‘we’. Good question! I was meaning generally as ‘we’ by anyone who considers themselves concerned about how the current political, corporate corrupt system, functions, and who seriously want to create or support a movement for a system that is not hell bent on Hooveresque blackmail of political leaders. The blame is not only on those who are already compromised in the system; what about all the citizens who have a responsibility towards participation in their Constitutional Republic and supporting whistleblowers and who did not do so, and now are sitting with a feint thread to a ‘democracy’. A democracy is to a Constitutional Republic, what an obstinate beligerrent mule, that refuses to move, is to an Arabian thoroughbred, whether wild on the moors of Mongolia, or whispered to in Wyoming; for a National Velvet Mounty. If you get my analogy.

I agree, ‘they’ do know how things work, and yet I’d imagine they would have to be beyond moronic stupidity, if they were not willing to confront the reality, that things cannot go on as they have, for without some joint action towards a more enlightened egalitarian society, the alternative option ain’t going to be pleasant for them either, in the same manner that the corporate ironfists of the Third Reich, found out too late.

Thank you for enlightening me that “How is it that there can be honest conversation since that implies honest participants?” The only way in which I have managed to hold a really honest conversation, is face-to-face, in person, with both parties sincerely interested in the conversation. Written word helps, however it’s so one dimensional, lacking tone of voice, facial expressions, body language, question and answer in the moment; and even better, in my opinion is where both participants are not stuck in personal withheld resentments or appreciations, obstructing themselves from being willing to be really open to listening to the other, from a place of love.

The ‘leave them alone’ ‘none of whomever’s business’ remarks reminds me of a conversation I had with my brother, which I share as an analogy; in terms of politicians (whether Iraqi, or American) and their ‘children’, namely citizens, voters. Subsequent to my brother and his wife ‘having’ children, their relationship went seriously downhill. They spent thousands on psychologists to patch it up, and then seperated. One day I asked my brother whether any of the psychologists he had spent thousands and thousands of rands on, had ever asked him and his wife, whether prior to them having children they had sat down and seriously considered what commitments they wanted to make prior thereto, to each other, why were they having children (to patch up their marriage, or just cause everyone does it, or why?, what is the political situation like, what is the future twenty years from now, within the current political climate for such children, and so on). Anyway he looked at me, as if I had just landed in a UFO on his front lawn, and slapped him in the face; and told me it was none of my business. On a political leader relativity scale: Sort of like Mugabe saying what he does to his Zimbabwean children, whether it’s torture, or whatever, is none of the international community’s business.

Shenonymous (any relation to The Ghost of Freedom Lost Anonymous?)

Hi. I didn’t know that Scott is often a guest on KPFK - how interesting, considering Scott being a republican. KPFK were shall I say slightly paranoic about getting former LAPD narcotics investigator and From the Wilderness editor and investigative journalist on either KPFK or KPFA. Interesting. I haven’t a clue what the Lila Garrett, Connect the Dots show is about, although I can imagine.

Sincere remorse is not an emotion our current society encourages the expression of in public, and I’d go as far to say that great efforts are made, whether conscious or unconscious, within the corridors of power, to discourage any contemplation towards sincere attempts at understanding another’s pain, and consequently even if we did what we did with the best of intentions, doesn’t mean we cannot understand how our good intention conduct, still contributed to allot of pain and suffering for another.

The Marine Corps does not exactly encourage it’s souldiers to wear the hearts on their sleeves, yet I must admit to having been lucky to know a few Marine’s whom were touched, by anothers pain, when confronted with it, personally.

Scott’s dinner with Ahmed was indeed very different to Andre and Wallace’s, yet for some reason, I don’t consider Scott as the type of Marine and man, who was not somehow changed by his interpretation of the conversation. Perhaps I am wrong, don’t know.

I too have been used by others manipulations, all that keeps me sane, is knowing that at all times, my intentions were simply to remain true to those I love, as best I could, and do my little bit to attempt to create a world that is a little less insane and as destructive of human’s spirits, souls, and so much else. I cannot be responsible for other’s intentions.

I read Fadel Abdullah remarks on March 18, 7:15 pm to Mike Mid-City, about Chalabi. He is probably correct about Chalabi, I don’t know; it’s easy to judge. And if it is true of Chalabi, how true is it of most other politicians? One of the telling sentences in Scott’s essay is how he describes the obvious, political power only comes from a base of economic power. Corporate CEO’s are not blind to this reality, anything but, they exploit it to the maximum. Unfortunately very seldom considering long term visions and goals for the consequence of their actions on humanity. The corporate exploitation of the political process, isn’t much different to an immune destroying virus in a human body, as it eats it’s host, and we can see the consequences thereof in our world. Mike Ruppert used to describe it as a snake eating its own tail, thinking it nutrition.

Is it possible to become a president, or leading politician in any country, without being compromised by corporate manipulations and corrupt practices? I am not attempting to endorse it, although it may sound that way, I am simply saying that once you reach the pinnacles of political or corporate power, where the media consider your opinions worthy of their distribution, you are already compromised, and consequently, in a Hooveresque manner, any serious criticism of this unholy system is avoided.

Gad, I closed the italics incorrectly.  I hope it doesn’t ruin further comments.
Duh. What one little typo can do.

JMCSwan (I got it right this time), I understand your allusion to the film MDWA, having seen the Louis Malle film many years ago.  Conversations sometimes can be life changeing it’s true.  Their conversation gets involved in the nature of reality aside from forms of theater.  Reality often is referred to as theater of a type.  It is more a philosophical film. 

This article has been sleeping for quite a while but I am okay to re-discuss it.  I have been listening to Scott Ritter for over five years.  He is an often guest on KPFK in Los Angeles, the Lila Garrett, Connect the Dots.

In this article about his 10-years ago dinner with Chalabi, Ritter doesn’t express much in the way of remorse for not following up immediately on the plans of Trent Lott, et al Republicans who were more interested in harpooning Bill Clinton than dealing with the reality of Iraq and Hussein. And although there was a dinner had, it is quite unlike Andre Gregory’s and Wallace Shawn’s dinner at a restaurant.  Chalabi’s and Ritter’s conversation was hardly philosophical and neither men were changed by their confrontation. 

Ritter now is quite safe to make his literary memories and make great capital discussing openly What Should Have Beens[/i[ and from any employment ramifications by making known both the fact of the meeting (so cleverly arranged by Lott and Chalabi who obviously thought Ritter could be instrumental in furthering their respective agendas: Chalabi’s coveting the presidency of Iraq and Lott’s vendetta against Bill Clinton).  You might check Fadel Abdullah remarks on this forum, especially the lengthy March 18, 7:15 pm to Mike Mid-City.