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The Last Days of Democracy

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Posted on Aug 2, 2007
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Illustration courtesy of Adbusters

(Page 4)

Harris: ...  [H]ere’s a question, and Josh speaks to this as well.  Elliot, you were talking about PNAC, the Project for the New American Century, and you’re also talking about media and how it’s been manipulated severely in the last seven years.  We’ve seen the government exposed; we’ve see the government abuse, that power can be misused.  Does this reveal a problem perhaps, a more insoluble one that our government is flawed?  That the system that we abide by, the Republic, is flawed?  And if so, what do we do about that fact?

Cohen: I think that after they’ve ransacked the Constitution and the balance of powers and the like as they’ve done, it really is flawed.  They’ve set some dangerous precedents.  Was the system intact when they came in?  I think it was.  But any system, any system has vulnerabilities.  There’s no system of government and no system of any activity or operation that’s entirely invulnerable.  I think we have a good system and if we can only get it back and start recognizing the rule of law in implementing it.  I think what’s happening is that they are getting away with so many things.  I mean, they refused to recognize subpoenas, they evoke executive privilege even with the Tillman case; I mean, this is absurd.  They’ve gone to such absurd lengths of just disregarding the rule of law that anybody, no matter how perfect your system was, if they weren’t going to follow the rules then the system wouldn’t work.  So I think what Congress needs to realize is just that.  They have to take the powers that they do have, they have some powers that they can exercise, but they’re not doing it.  I think this is human error.  I think it’s with people who are in power right now and the people are trying to do something about it.  There’s where the wimpishness comes in.  They’re being ... the Congress is being wimpish.  They need to impeach Bush.  They can do that.  But they’re not.  And it’s not the system’s fault; it’s their fault. 

Harris: And isn’t that a sad fact, though?  You see [House Speaker Nancy] Pelosi there; you see Sen. [Harry] Reid there. They all seem to be talking the talk but nobody is actually getting anything done.  And I think that’s the most upsetting part, as Dr. Cohen just said.

Scheer: Well, I just think that no one is—.  As Dr. Cohen said, and previous with people writing letters to Congress, I think that as a citizenry, and I need to do more.  I’m sure everyone could do a little more ... to let them know that we’re pissed off.  And I think that’s why the election [outcome of 2006] happened.  The Democrats should learn from that and, you know, any time you get a system that large obviously things are going to fall through the cracks, but they can certainly, they should be responsible with the election and how much the Democrats have raised more than the Republicans. They should learn that the citizenry is upset. ...

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Harris: Well, here’s one place to start. “The Last Days of Democracy: How Big Media and Power-Hungry Governments Are Turning America Into a Dictatorship.”  For Josh Scheer, for Dr. Elliot Cohen, this is James Harris and this is Truthdig.


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By roulette money guide, March 12, 2009 at 2:38 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

At the time of financial crises we need to come together united and try to solve the problems which are responsible for such a hazard. We need to overcome it. It is meant to bring calm to the population and markets and display government strength and stability.

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By Leefeller, September 17, 2007 at 7:27 am Link to this comment

John, Borowski

You stated, “Homosexuality is not a sin or crime” lets get this straight, (bad pun intended)  only if you are not a Republican!

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By John Borowski, September 17, 2007 at 3:35 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The Republicans (The Conservatives aka right wing) ardently supported Craig despite the fact they probably knew about his orientation. When he was exposed in the current incident, most of them disowned him. Did they want him immediately dismissed or jailed? In my opinion, homosexuality is not a sin or crime. It’s an anomaly in the dark depth of the mind that medical science is too incompetent to cure. These same Republicans (Conservatives aka right wing) were so shocked and abhorred sin so much they wanted to impeach Clinton (They spent millions of tax payers money in the failed attempt) and have McGreevy dismissed as governor of NJ immediately. (It wouldn’t surprise me if one of the Conservatives was Craig) All of you right wing hypocrites can cast the first stone if you never had oral sex like Clinton. Gov. McGreevy didn’t announce his homosexuality from the toilet bowl, but rather from the state office. I can see the common format the boiler room crowd uses. They will use snippets of a comment they dislike instead of the entire comment. This indicates they all read from the same instruction sheet. Right wing lackeys when the evils in London and Washington take down the world you will all be losers like the rest of us. To show how cunning the boiler folks are they know that Bush’s popularity is lower than whale’s poop so they disassociate from him. The Republican Conservatives (Aka right wing) passed all of his requests and ardently supported all of his actions? (Basic violations of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution) They give him thunderous applause every time he addressed them. The Republicans (The Conservatives aka right wing) voted Bush’s tax cut into law. (3 to seventeen pennies a day for the average Johnny Q and two hundred thousand forty-seven dollar tax cut for the rich. Where did they get the money, you guessed it from Social Security. They will tell Johnny Q when the time comes (Between 2010 and 2020) that sorry the Social Security is busted. Regarding the Clintons, you are not anywhere near them as a human being. The Clintons are so superior it’s ludicrous to compare. The right wing goons (Aka Republican Conservatives) broke into the office in Florida in 2004 and stopped the recount. If Do Good (Good is bad) Liberals broke into any office in the US and tried to stop a recount They would all be sitting in a jail cell with bloody heads and blood on the floor up to their ankles.

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By Skruff, September 16, 2007 at 3:00 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

#100692 by John Borowski on 9/16 at 4:35 am

“When you read articles about Hillary Clinton or any democrat on any web page, you will have the illusion that ninety percent of the people are against them. The opposite is the truth ninety percent of the people are for them.”

I buy your argument about the word liberal (liberals would be against gun control if the word was used correctly.  I must say however, that the left wing has done the same thing to the word “conservative”

No true conservative can be in favor of a bush-like administration. Spending trillions in the red, involved in a unnecessary war, hobbling the Constitution… Conservatives value their rights. they also value their money.

Now to the meat of your post. You say 90% of the people favor Hillary (Obama, Edwards)?  That the “vast right-wing conspiracy”  is here on truth-dig talking her down? That a vote for Hill-the business-shill is a vote for “liberalism”

Friend, you need to do some extensive research.  Hill&Bill;may be a comedy team, but they are definitely NOT liberal, nor conservative for that matter. They are self-serving money grubbing business shills, just exactly, like GWB.

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By John Borowski, September 16, 2007 at 5:35 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

When you read articles about Hillary Clinton or any democrat on any web page, you will have the illusion that ninety percent of the people are against them. The opposite is the truth ninety percent of the people are for them. There is a small right wing group that inundates these web pages, probably working out of the same right wing boiler room. They claim the media is Liberal oriented. This is the same media that made the word Liberal worst than coitus. They have virtual control over the media and are now working on the Internet to make the word Liberal you know what.

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By John Borowski, September 16, 2007 at 4:41 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

In my opinion, the war is lost; anyone voting is insulting his human dignity and intelligence. The Democrats won the majority only because the Republicans wanted them to. Despite the Democrats have a majority they are a castrated party that has no power to change things. With globalization, you can’t have the people in the US making fifty dollar an hour and the Far East making fifty cents an hour. If I made thig-a –majigs (Only an old timer knows what a thig-a – majig is) and was paying my workers fifty dollars an hour and my competitor was paying his workers fifty cent an hour, how could I compete with him? We can’t have ships from the fifty cent people coming here loaded to the gills and ships going back to the Far East almost empty. The only way an American company can compete with a foreign company (Not owned by the foreigners, but rather by the British or their American colony) is to go over there and feast on the cheap labor. What happens to the decent paying jobs in America? They will all vanish. What will the Americans do for income? The right-wing Republicans will have to kick the asses of the immigrants out of the country that have dead-end jobs with no future and give them to the white Americans. (They are already working on it)

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By S.A. BROWN, September 15, 2007 at 10:45 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Elliot Cohen’s comments on the corporate press are right on target.  A really free, unimpeded press is essential for a truly functioning democracy; this is crucially important, and the United States simply does not have it.  In most cases we cannot blame the journalists at the writing level for failure to discuss relevant issues without pulling their punches.  I’m not sure we can blame the editors most of the time either; it is the owners who are mainly at fault, and as Cohen says, their prime concern is the bottom line.
    Cohen makes no mention here of another very significant factor—commercial advertising.  This is a pernicious influence, in that to a considerable degree advertisers can censor what is reported.  How, for example, could a reviewer really run down a new car the way advertising-free Consumer Reports does and still hope to get advertisements from its maker?  The threat of advertising boycotts can be a major inhibitor of free political comment as well, especially in certain areas.  This is without doubt a major impediment to the free disussion that is the lifeblood of a true democracy.  The lack of a mainstream national publicly operated, advertising-free news medium, as in Britain and Canada, for example, contributes in a big way to the problem.

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By Skruff, September 15, 2007 at 6:10 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

100250 by Nitro on 9/13 at 2:34 pm

“... maybe you ought to check out the article on Carl Bernsteins interview w/Ms. Hillary’s political career since 1968, at the Truthdig home page. It was really hard for me to tell which side of the coin she’s been on since her initiation to politics.”

Been to bernstein’s article, but even further that that. Have researched Hill-the-business-shill and have found which side of the coin she’s been on since her initiation to politics;

She is head of the India Caucus, and a proponent of expanding the H-1b visa program, so that Indian companies doing business in the United States can hire more workers from India… The reason these companies wish to do this, is they can get immigrant Indians to work for an average of $12,000 less per year than US workers for doing the same job in the same city.

As a member of Walmart’s board of directors, she never suggested that that company pay workers a living wage, nor did she push for Walmart sponsored health care for employees. For business reasons, Walmart considers workers to be full-time if they work 28 hours a week. Do the math at 2 dollars above today’s minimum wage X 28 hours might just pay for a small apartment in some mid-size cities. This leaves taxpayers to pick-up the cost of food, health care, and transportation.  Walmarts merchandise isn’t so cheap when that scenario is factored.

The business-shill also contends (on the record) that among the 300 million US citizens there are not enough skilled workers to fill Microsoft’s needs.  (maybe because Bill Gates has deep fund raising pockets) (remember he can get these H-1b workers cheap!)

On a personal note she also lobbied her fat, hamburger-munching spouse to pardon the FALN terrorists who (in the mid Seventies) planted a bomb which killed a security guard in my father’s office building. They also bombed 65 other sites in and around New York killing people, and destroying property.

No, I’m done discussing Pandering Hill! I would vote for ANYONE other than her.

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By 911truthdotorg, September 14, 2007 at 7:59 pm Link to this comment

The monster bush crime family got their game plan from their Nazi masters. This is how they’ve gotten away with 9/11, Iraq, next, Iran and ultimately, martial law and their New World Order. Like the Nazi’s, they WILL FAIL!

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” - Joseph Goebbels

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By Nitro, September 13, 2007 at 3:34 pm Link to this comment

Lots of good comments here, and a really good article by Mr. Cohen. The Last Days of Democracy, Liberty, or Freedom would be good labels.

Rich in Montana, good, no, excellent write.
1drees, where is Montebello located ? I have an excellent documentary-movie to view if anyone wishes to know the Truth, and nothing but the Truth about all this shit. It will be listed at the end.

Ken Mitchell, well put !

Skruff, maybe you ought to check out the article on Carl Bernsteins interview w/Ms. Hillary’s political career since 1968, at the Truthdig home page. It was really hard for me to tell which side of the coin she’s been on since her initiation to politics.

And finally, 911truthdotorg… If you’d go to the link at the bottom here, pop some corn and check it out, you’ll find your state really won’t need the new drivers licenses they want to spend 4 Mill. $‘s on to just put together ?!~

After the North American Union and the new Amero Dollar takes place, here sooner than anyone knows, there won’t be any northern or southern borders to worry about. All just 1 big happy bunch of North Americans. Won’t that just be peachy ? Oh, and don’t forget to buy one’s copy of the Constitution. That’s about out the door as well.

Well anyway,

To A Better Day ...

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com

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By Rich in Montana, September 13, 2007 at 10:31 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Though I agree with most of the discussion comments, there’s nothing really new, to me anyway - maybe for others. But the rise of human insanity has certainly got my attention. Nothing more I desire than to understand it all, and see it resolved.

My issue is simple - we’re all caught up in a human-made quagmire, individually and societally, from which we can’t seem to break free and really see clearly what’s what. “Something’s wrong, they did this, I’m a victim, blah, blah, blah.” Some say “take action.” What action? Don’t they mean “reaction”, which just further perpetuates the whole mess? The idea of fighting the “bad” people, revolting, insurging, is not transcendent. It just perpetuates the same song into another verse. And round and round we go…

Friends, each of us has an “ego” problem, from about 2 years old onward. All fear, greed, loneliness, selfishness, defensiveness, arrogance, violence, etc., etc., stems from this single delusion: that I am a separate, autonomous person, on my own and out for myself– allsupported by one story after another that I make up and believe. This is what needs deconstructing, not other people, not political/ideological/economic systems. Just deconstruct your own belief system centered in the imagined idea that I am a separate person. Just see it and it deconstructs itself. Do this, then see what’s what, then live and act from a wholly different place.

Read Eckhart Tolle’s “A New Earth.” Great insight into the root cause of human insanity and confusion. Byron Katie is another one who helps undo the primal human mistake. And there are others, more all the time it seems. Pick the one that resonates. Regardless, they only point, each must find out alone.

Be well and go in peace!

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By Ken Mitchell, September 9, 2007 at 5:35 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It should read “Last days of freedom”.

As Ben Franklin put it,

“Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch.”

“Freedom is one well armed sheep contesting the results”.

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By Malcolm Martin, September 1, 2007 at 9:58 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

A US attack on Iran now appears imminent. Multiple sources are providing evidence to this effect.

Our bourgeois democracy, which has been narrowing in recent years will be shut down completely under the pressures of an expanding war in the Middle East and the deep economic crisis which is just around the corner.  People who still wonder if Hillary or Obama can become our next president, who still tilt at windmills for Ron Paul, who wonder if scandals have crippled GOP prospects for 2008 have to be among the most pollyannish group in history. Elections will never again decide matters of substance in the United States of America.

There is only one discussion worth having now with the little time that’s left for such things. People like myself are certainly known to the government and will be carted away to the camps when the crackdown comes but other potential rebels would benefit from the collective wisdom on the question: What does an effective insurgency look like?

There are many elements to the question ranging from the ideological to the theoretical to the practical. Like, how do we communicate when the cell phones go dead as they did the other day in Bangladesh and the “world wide web” is shut down in favor of the parallel military-industrial interNet?

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By 911truthdotorg, September 1, 2007 at 3:01 pm Link to this comment

Our pussocrat governor sold us out…..

Super IDs for Arizona in works
Homeland Security wants driver’s license that serves as passport

Sean Holstege
The Arizona Republic
Aug. 25, 2007 12:00 AM

Arizona could be the first state along the Mexican border and one of the first
in the country to develop a driver’s license secure enough to be used in lieu of
a passport at a port of entry.

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security announced an agreement Friday with
Arizona to use new, more-expensive, state-issued licenses as a valid ID for
entering the country.

New U.S. travel restrictions with stricter documentation requirements take
effect next year for the Western Hemisphere.
   
Creating tamper-proof IDs is critical in Arizona. Nearly 12 million pedestrians
and 9.5 million vehicles passed through Arizona’s six controlled international
border crossings last year.

At those ports of entry, customs agents have to review more than 8,000 valid
forms of identification.

Arizona issued nearly 1.3 million driver’s licenses last year.

Gov. Janet Napolitano’s office thinks the new license, still only a concept, may
cost $4 million to develop and could be paid for by an increase in fees.

A license now costs $10 to $25, depending on the age of the applicant. Getting a
more-secure license would be voluntary.

Job-seekers could use the new driver’s license to prove work eligibility under
the state’s tough new employer-sanctions law and to avoid prosecution under the
recently announced federal crackdown on hiring undocumented workers.

Washington and Vermont already have government approval to develop a secure
driver’s license that can be used for international travel in the Americas.

Vermont pushed for approval after a rush on passports created a backlog.

Starting Jan. 31, U.S. citizens will need a valid government-issued ID and proof
of citizenship to enter the country.

The Arizona Legislature must approve development of the new licenses, which
Homeland Security said could satisfy the requirements of the controversial Real
ID Act.

The act was written in response to a key recommendation of the 9/11 Commission,
because all but one of the Sept. 11, 2001, hijackers used fake identities to
travel.

By law, every state must issue tamper-proof IDs by 2010. Rules are expected by
the end of the year.

Nationally, since 2005, customs officials have seized 90,000 fraudulent
documents and stopped 60,000 people making false citizenship claims at the
borders.

Nonetheless, 16 states have passed laws opposing compliance with the Real ID
Act.

Arizona is not among them, but earlier this year, Napolitano testified in
Washington, D.C., that costs of compliance would cripple state budgets.

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By G.Anderson, August 28, 2007 at 8:07 am Link to this comment

Truth, can be very bad for business. It brings up too many questions about the failure of corporate America. It makes coroporate leaders uncomfortable, that they might lose profitability.

Lies are much easier to sell because they are comforting, and they are much harder to argue against, because it’s practically impossible to reason with a fantasy.

Those in charge of America have a “new Vision” of what our country should be. It’s a country that is run on sound managment principals, by MBA’s. One in which there is just about as much freedom as there is in a corporation.

Globalism is the new ideology under which all others will be subservient. Our freedoms will be managed just like everything else. We will be taught to accept this and eventually to even feel proud of the fact that our small country is a part of something much larger than itself.

As long as we can go shopping, and the store shelves are filled with all sorts of things we don’t really need, we’ll be ok with it.

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By 1drees, August 22, 2007 at 1:06 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

With the signing of the North American Union papers today in Montebello, all i can presume is that BIG CHANGES ARE AFOOT, but lets wait and see them unfold coz they neer asked anybody about it all so its stupid to expect much from what you dont even know coz they never even bothered to ask about it. I mean if they been hidingit so far, then most probablyits nothing at all good.

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By KYJurisDoctor, August 17, 2007 at 8:41 am Link to this comment

It will be our collective faults for sitting idly by while it happens!

http://OsiSpeaks.com or http://OsiSpeaks.org

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By Douglas Chalmers, August 14, 2007 at 12:12 pm Link to this comment

#94765 by cyrena on 8/14 at 12:45 am: “.........Meantime, I wasn’t offering any legal services myself. My field is more on US constitutional law and International Law, so I rarely have “single” clients. No, more than anything, I just try to diminish the stereotype of all lawyers as crooked, and particularly now, as we watch so helplessly as the Constitution as we’ve all come to love so passionately, has been destroyed. It’s definitely put that field of academics in a most depressed mentality…..... So, that was my only point in the additional reminder that there are actually still a few left. And, I like to believe that we do good work, even if the people who are assisted by it, don’t even realize that they’re being helped. Some will figure it out at some point, and others never will…..”——————>

Ha ha, cyrena, I gave you a hard time about lawyers, eh? And I want to hire one as well. You intuited it well again but that is something I have to deal with myself. I was not ‘asking’ you (such a typical lawyer’s answer!)  - I wouldn’t be so presumptious. It was about a will that my side of the family are contesting and already I’ve seen how some in the legal profession are conceitedly jealous that anyone should gain anything through the courts. Weird!

Didn’t John Edwards make his ‘fortune’ from litigation law, though? That’s as dubious a game as it is possible to conjure up and still be legal. “No win, no fee” but, wow, what a fee when they do win. Class action, mass tort or “bet the company” cases have risks but I’ve seen how small the costs are in comparison with the winnings of a successful settlement. It might cost a few $million up front in laywers’ salaries, etc etc, for a couple of years but then they get ten times that back at least. They only have to win one in three cases to be way ahead.

I understand that you are not in the appropriate jurisdiction anyway for what I have to deal with although the beneficiary I am opposing is in LA - my mother re-made her will when in a disgruntled state and left everything to a church there (trying to buy her way into heaven, ha ha!). As she died in another country and the will was made there, it complicates things as the case has to be heard there.

I understand what you mean about some lawyers who “do good work, even if the people who are assisted by it don’t even realize that they’re being helped…”, though. I know some do unpaid work for ‘pro bono clients’ but, more recently, I have also seen how law firms exploit their junior staff by expecting them to work additional unpaid hours doing that merely so that the firm gets the boost to their reputation.

Sad about US constitutional law when there is a government which wants to test just how far they can go in repudiating it piece by piece. The government has an almost endless resource in hiring teams of lawyers to help them do that if they wish. Its the wrong attitude, though.

But that is also what the US trade administration has been doing (and the Europeans) for a while in WTO and other regional negotiations. Tearing up what is fair for others so that they can tilt the playing field more to their own advantage. Then they give a little back to extort even further compliance in foreign affairs. Buy our Joint Strike fighter aircraft - or else!

For a presidential candidate to promise that they will repudiate NAFTA or the WTO is ludicrous, though (Kucinich). Can you imagine the world without any trade agreements? Yet they blithely say this and people naively lap it up because that is what they think they want to hear, duh. That’s not the way to get people more jobs.

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By Leefeller, August 14, 2007 at 8:44 am Link to this comment

This article should be titled the last days of Liberty not Democracy!

We will always be sold down the road to the highest bidder, change is the only hope, people running for president who seem not to be bed partners with special interests are Mike Gravel, and Dennis Kucinich.

We need people in office who believe in the Constitution and not the dollar.

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By Skruff, August 14, 2007 at 7:29 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“Get over it, eh, Skruff. Hillary has had to arduously rebuild her career and remake her image over the years as a senator and she has done well. Add that to her previous knowledge and experience and she is still the best and “most exerienced and most qualified person” for the job. Your problem is simply that she is not the best “man” for the job, duh!”

Your lack of education is showing again.  Although I am convinced your assessment of Hill-the-business-shill is incorrect, as well as your assessment that there are not enough qualified workers for Microsoft among the 300 million US citizens, I choose to address your personal attack. 

You contend that I am opposed to the business-shill because she is a woman;

Lets examine that;

I have identified myself as a dissatisfied New England Republican.  Although most folks seem to believe that the Southern Baptist brand of Republicans is the total, that is untrue. Here in Maine we have a fine tradition of fiscally conservative socially liberal Republicans. You may have heard of Margaret Chase Smith the first woman Senator?  You may not be aware of this, but Maine is one of two states (Cailfornia being the other) without a male Senator. both our Senators are Republican, although Maine is a blue state.

I have voted for Susan Collins, and Olympia Snowe and plan to vote for Collins again in 2008! She is a fine competant Senator, and far more qualified than the business-shill.  Olympia Snowe is a three term Senator, and before that a five term represenative, If who she is married to qualifies her further (as you seem to contend with your candidate) The man is Jock McKernan, former two term Governor of Maine, and head of the New England Economic Project.

Sort of upstages a one-term senator-lawyer who near as I can determine has not had a single success since her ill-considered health-care initiative went down in flames.

No, it’s not her gender which bothers me.

You realy ought to get that “DUH” fixed.  it detracts from your message.

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By cyrena, August 14, 2007 at 1:45 am Link to this comment

#94381 by Douglas Chalmers on 8/12 at 8:07 pm

Yes indeed Douglas, I DO care, and I did mean that they are BOTH attorneys, and that they have been for a long time. Having studied them both, I’m well aware that they are both intelligent, but I do believe that Bill’s is a bit broader.

And yes, she does have the experience. And, I would have been fine with her, in place of what we have, had she been able to follow directly behind her husband, but there’s no way the US would have been ready for that, and it was wise for her to get the time in the Senate.

But, that was then, and this is now, and the problems that we’re facing now cannot be resolved by the status quo, and that’s what she is. If we were in better times, it wouldn’t make a difference.

But, not now. I don’t see her as capable of addressing the systemic problems of the poor or the rapidly diminishing middle class. So, I have some complaints about her, but they are not dogmatic in the sense that I would have to leave the country if she were elected. And, it could turn out that I have to vote for her, if she does indeed get the democratic nomination. Clearly she would be a far lesser evil than ANY republican running now.

So, we’ll see how it works out, but I admit she’s not my first choice. And, we will not see any change in the empire-buiding or the forced spread of “US interests” throughout the world, which is of course the reason that we have so many of the problems that we do now…trying to rule the world. I know that Hillary will not change any part of that. She’s as much a part of that thinking as all the others, and it’s the very reason that empires fall.

Meantime, I wasn’t offering any legal services myself. My field is more on US constitutional law and International Law, so I rarely have “single” clients. No, more than anything, I just try to diminish the stereotype of all lawyers as crooked, and particularly now, as we watch so helplessly as the Constitution as we’ve all come to love so passionately, has been destroyed. It’s definitely put that field of academics in a most depressed mentality. Really.

So, that was my only point in the additional reminder that there are actually still a few left. And, I like to believe that we do good work, even if the people who are assisted by it, don’t even realize that they’re being helped. Some will figure it out at some point, and others never will. That’s the way of the world.

And, it’s OK, as long as it’s on a self-adjusting track.

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By Douglas Chalmers, August 14, 2007 at 12:30 am Link to this comment

#94465 by Skruff on 8/13 at 5:39 am: “...Hill-the-business-shill is a lobbiest for India, and a sponsor to provide unlimited H1-B visas so Indian firms can locate cheaper labor from India here….”

You (and others like you) seem to want people to vote Republican just because Hillary is not a perfect person in your dishonestly perfect personal fantasy world. Believe me, it won’t hurt to vote for the lesser evil instead of the evil you are used to. That’s the democratic system…..

As far as your nonsense about “cheaper labor from India”, though, that relates to high-priced computer program designer talent and is what keeps firms like Microsoft afloat in the market. Bush’s Neocon policies on job migration changed the face of international computing forever and software firms in the US struggled or contracted their work out overseas (in India) anyway - and for a cheaper price! You are really stupid, Skruff…..

Do you really think that blaming Hillary for all of Bill’s mistakes and shortcomings is a smart way of choosing a candidate? I guess you must think that she was also supporting him while he was screwing Monica under the table…... How many other candidates have a decade’s experience on the inside in the White House???

Get over it, eh, Skruff. Hillary has had to arduously rebuild her career and remake her image over the years as a senator and she has done well. Add that to her previous knowledge and experience and she is still the best and “most exerienced and most qualified person” for the job. Your problem is simply that she is not the best “man” for the job, duh!

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By Skruff, August 13, 2007 at 6:39 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“I wouldn’t give anything for John Edwards, though - he’s just another snake-in-the-grass! They (he and others like him) make all the noises you want to hear and then will proceed to do whatever their masters tell them if they get elected.”

Let me see;

Hill-the-business-shill is a lobbiest for India, and a sponsor to provide unlimited H1-B visas so Indian firms can locate cheaper labor from India here.

She urged her husband (at the end of his presidency) to Pardon members of the FALN who had committed no fewer than 85 acts of Terror in and around New York City, including the murder of a security guard at the Mobil Oil Building, and the Murder of four others at Fraunces Tavern. She did this to gain a few hispanic votes in her run for the New York Senate seat she now holds.

She talks about the lower-middle class, pretending to be conserned about their wel-being, BUT as a board member for Walmart, she never stood up for the workers; Wal-Mart workers make an average of $3 per hour less than union supermarket jobs, $2 per hour less than all supermarket jobs, and $1 per hour less than the average retail wage. An average Wal-Mart employee makes about $11,700 a year (working 30 hour weeks which is the national average in discount stores) � nearly $2,000 below the poverty line for a single mother with two children. A 40-hour week—which most Wal-Mart employees don’t work—would figure out to $15,000 a year, which is the government’s poverty level for a family of 4.

Even with the above knowledge she stood by while her husband cut federal aid to these same workers.

I could go on about her work for Tyson Chicken, her poor relations at the Rose Law Firm, and her endless talking one-way while walking another, but why bother.

I agree with you fully about John Edwards, but Hill-the-shill belongs in the same group.  After all, they wer DLC buddies before this primary season.

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By Douglas Chalmers, August 12, 2007 at 9:07 pm Link to this comment

#94194 by cyrena on 8/12 at 5:12 am: “...Ok Doug…watch it. You never know when you might need an honest attorney.  There are a few still in existence you know…... Meantime, having lawyers in office is not a bad thing. If you think about it, Clinton was an attorney, in addition to being a highly intellecutual person. (He’s really quite smart)....”

You mean Clinton IS an attorney ......and SHE’S really quite smart “in addition to being a highly intellectual person”, don’t you, cyrena? After all, she was a lawyer too and on an impeachment team. Still, I’m giving her the benefit of the doubt and my tacit support. By the way, its “Hillary + Bill”, now, too…....

I wouldn’t give anything for John Edwards, though - he’s just another snake-in-the-grass! They (he and others like him) make all the noises you want to hear and then will proceed to do whatever their masters tell them if they get elected.

As far as needing “an honest attorney”, yes, you have indeed intuited that and I am searching ......and searching. For a small matter, I had cost estimates ranging from $5,000 to $15,000 .....and a number of lies, so far. Even the lawyer at their local law professional association was a problem, duh!

As far as this topic is concerned, though, lawyers and the legal/judicial profession have ensured that we are now in “the last days of democracy”. That is the outcome of their continued pernicious existence…...

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By Skruff, August 12, 2007 at 3:59 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

94302 by ardee on 8/12 at 2:13 pm

“I havent even noted that the idea that Betsy Ross made the original flag is an urban myth..until now, she didnt. You could look it up.”

No not an “urban Myth” until you can tell folks who did in fact made the flag. I agree she may not have made it, but there are no absloutes here yet. By-The-Way, if we are going to be exact, stop calling her Betsy Ross, she was Elizebeth Claypool!

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By cyrena, August 12, 2007 at 3:53 pm Link to this comment

I havent even noted that the idea that Betsy Ross made the original flag is an urban myth..until now, she didnt. You could look it up.
*******************

Ah…I didn’t know that. (that it was an urban myth about Betsy and the flag). But, I’m gonna take your word for it, because I believe you, and one day I might get around to checking it out. (I admit it’s not that important. smile.

As for Chong, I AM relieved. I guess he learned his “free enterprise” lesson the hard way. He should have either just kept his invention to himself, or got a front person to operate a shell enterprise under a fake name. Like the Big Guys do.

Meantime though, this might be a good time to go ahead and ram through whatever needs to be done to make it all legal. I mean, if the lawmakers can legalize torture, and legalize spying, and legalize wholesale slaughter, you’d think a litte pot wouldn’t be all that big of a deal.

Then again, it IS the US’s largest cash crop in the GDP. So, politics must be holding that up, ya think?

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By ardee, August 12, 2007 at 3:13 pm Link to this comment

#94249 by cyrena on 8/12 at 10:22 am
(768 comments total)

#94211 by ardee on 8/12 at 7:46 am

Ardee,

You caught me on this one. I was semi-fibbing about not knowing Cheeh and Chong. Actually, I DO remember those hysterical movies, (uh…at least sort of ) but I admit I haven’t kept track since then. (and we know how long ago that was).

So, I appreciate the update. I never knew that one was from Marin County though. And why is poor Chong in jail? Haven’t they legalized marijuana up there yet? 

Maybe we should get Nancy on it. That could be her saving grace.

Chong is now a free man, he was originally jailed for making some item or other used in the smoking of marijuana and marketing same thus promoting an illegality. And Gonzales and Libby remain free, go figure,huh!

I havent even noted that the idea that Betsy Ross made the original flag is an urban myth..until now, she didnt. You could look it up.

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By cyrena, August 12, 2007 at 11:22 am Link to this comment

#94211 by ardee on 8/12 at 7:46 am

Ardee,

You caught me on this one. I was semi-fibbing about not knowing Cheeh and Chong. Actually, I DO remember those hysterical movies, (uh…at least sort of smile) but I admit I haven’t kept track since then. (and we know how long ago that was).

So, I appreciate the update. I never knew that one was from Marin County though. And why is poor Chong in jail? Haven’t they legalized marijuana up there yet? smile

Maybe we should get Nancy on it. That could be her saving grace.

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By ardee, August 12, 2007 at 8:46 am Link to this comment

Totally irelevent response to Cyrena’s astonishing :smiley:lack of knowledge:

It apparently pissed him off, so he responded by saying that I was a ghost writer for Cheech and Chong (sic?) but I don’t know who they are.

Chech Marin, who oddly enough lives in Marin County north of SF, and Thomas Chong, recent resident of a jail somewhere and father of Rae Dawn Chong, minor screen actress and object of some of my fantasies (never mind) have writtten and starred in a series of movies both hysterical and supportive of the legalisation of Marijuana (thus explaining the jailing of Thom Chong ). In addition Marin costarred in an illfated detective series on the boob tube with a former neighbor of mine, Don Johnson.

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By cyrena, August 12, 2007 at 6:12 am Link to this comment

#94190 by Douglas Chalmers on 8/12 at 4:24 am

...“This is what lawyers do, 911td. Don’t vote for them!”...

Ok Doug…watch it. You never know when you might need an honest attorney. smile There are a few still in existence you know.

Meantime, having lawyers in office is not a bad thing. If you think about it, Clinton was an attorney, in addition to being a highly intellecutual person. (He’s really quite smart). Now, that’s not to say that I approved of everything he did, and I remain MOST perturbed by his NAFTA stuff. Still, it help for elected officials to know the law, and we’re discovering that too many of them .... DO NOT.

Meantime, none of the current “elected” officials of the Executive branch are lawyers, and neither bush or cheney has a lick of legal knowledge, and neither one of them has EVER (correctly) quoted the Constitution. They have special assistants though, that have managed to writesome stuff that will make ones hair stand straight up, and then walk right off.

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By Douglas Chalmers, August 12, 2007 at 5:24 am Link to this comment

#93978 by 911truthdotorg on 8/11 at 9:22 am: “...
When asked by Barbara Walters on the night of September 11, 2001 if the 9/11
attacks were carried out by forces within the U.S., 2008 ... all » presidential candidate and then senate intelligence committee member John Edwards becomes evasive and refuses to answer the question…”

This is what lawyers do, 911td. Don’t vote for them!

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By cyrena, August 12, 2007 at 5:11 am Link to this comment

#94142 by Leefeller on 8/11 at 9:34 pm

...“You are correct Marshall was annoying, I figure he was Chaney in drag.”...

Leefeller,

I already suggested the same a few months ago. Specifically, I accused Marshall of being a “ghost writer” for cheney.

It apparently pissed him off, so he responded by saying that I was a ghost writer for Cheech and Chong (sic?) but I don’t know who they are. smile

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, August 11, 2007 at 10:34 pm Link to this comment

#93945 by ardee


“If all the economists were laid end to end they couldn’t reach a conclusion.” George Bernard Shaw” And they call economics a science?  One could say the same for politics and religions.  Not sure what the the ponzi scheme is, may just be another name for fascism.  Our government has concluded to mate with big business, hence the peoples loss. Liberty and our Constitutional rights diminished, hidden under a blanket of apathy.

You are correct Marshall was annoying, I figure he was Chaney in drag.

When we have a White House full of coward hawks, look out for the ones that send you from behind to war for they will reap the benefits of your life and loss. SIC. cannot remember where I heard that before.

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By 911truthdotorg, August 11, 2007 at 10:22 am Link to this comment

When asked by Barbara Walters on the night of September 11, 2001 if the 9/11
attacks were carried out by forces within the U.S., 2008 ... all » presidential
candidate and then senate intelligence committee member John Edwards becomes
evasive and refuses to answer the question, after having spoken to CIA director
George Tenet earlier that day.  «

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-886644060632694627&q=edwards+9/11+wal
ters&total=23&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

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By ardee, August 11, 2007 at 8:43 am Link to this comment

I just somewhat caught up with this rather interesting exchange between Cyrena and Mr. Chalmers.

As to “certain posters”, well, there is the option of blocking their posts….and their PM’s as well. So far, as I value the first amendmant above all others, I have only attempted this drastic solution on one poster preferring to use will power to scroll past the efforts headed by certain names. Others, like Marshall, must be refuted as his insidious little lies pile up into one giant pile of bullshit.

As to the economic issues discussed:

“If all the economists were laid end to end they couldnt reach a conclusion.”  George Bernard Shaw

It requires a certain shift in the thought processes to fully comprehend our current situation, I believe. One must cease looking at governments and understand that it is all a for profit sort of Ponzi scheme, and world wide.

It matter not, sadly, who we elect to a system that we do not control and does not answer to our needs or wishes. I have always understood that, in the end, Capitalism eats its young. Today the world is run by folks whose lives are so different from our own, who are so out of touch with our realities that it is easy for them to ignore the suffering they cause, they never notice it as they move from limousine to private jet to helicopter to private Island to rambling estate.

Until people begin to understand that we need to address this fact that all decisions are made by folks who might as well be from Mars, so different are their values and aspirations from the billions who try to scuffle a decent living from our planet, we will make no significant changes.

“Our contest is not only whether we ourselves shall be free, but whether there shall be left to mankind an asylum on earth for civil and religious liberty.” Samuel Adams

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By John Borowski, August 11, 2007 at 7:31 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

My dear Doug, what we infidels would like to know is if the historic xxxxxx is in the same league with the Magna Charta. Surely, it must have some substance if the plotters would want to circumvent it. I have notice your comments are replete with your inanities not only in Last Days, but also all over the place. Surely, you can get a renewal from xxxxxx to post this historic xxxxxx. After we read this historic xxxxxx, we will be able to decide if the hanky panky is evident. God bless you Doug and all of the rightys posing as leftist. Such an important xxxxxx should not be kept hidden from us masses.

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By Douglas Chalmers, August 11, 2007 at 7:00 am Link to this comment

#93917 by cyrena on 8/11 at 4:52 am: “...now, I figured out a long while back, when I was still a corporate slave, that this was eventually going to happen, though my own arrival at those conclusions was based on far less sophisticated knowledge of the workings of the economy….”

No, cyrena, no need to let any of it get you down. Its their problem - they caused it and they can fix it! Just be careful who you vote for. Then again, the political debate earlier in the week started off on the infrastructure topic instead of war for once anyway and just as well.

All the money just pumped into the system is going nowhere! It would have been better if they had just let the markets find their own level - as they always tell us they should. That indicates something in itself. They are dabbling desperately in propping up the status quo - and at any cost. When that fails, there really will be a mess.

The IMF’s (International Monetary Fund http://www.imf.org ) MD, Rodrigo de Rato, has been saying repeatedly since early last year that things “could unwind in a disorderly manner”. That is happening now and is directly involving leveraged debt and derivatives with all of the ramifications for the global markets. What was pumped in by the US in the last 48 hours to prop things up was very little compared with the total global effort. That also tells us something…..

Quote: “The Federal Reserve and European Central Bank pumped money into the banking system for a second day on Friday to ward off a global credit crisis and the Fed said it stood ready to do more if needed. Central banks worldwide have injected at least $323.3 billion in the past 48 hours…..”  http://www.reuters.com/article/gc06/idUSN0832017120070810?src=081007_1509_weekend_weekend&sp=true

Perhaps we could also say that the current “dirty bomb threat’ in New York is extremely timely and especially since it has been described as “unconfirmed” and therefore can never be questioned. It is helping to divert attention from the very real drama now unfolding.

Quote GlobalResearch: “The Bank for International Settlements issued a warning this week that the Federal Reserve’s monetary policies have created an enormous equity bubble which could lead to another “Great Depression”. The UK Telegraph says that, “The BIS—the ultimate bank of central bankers—pointed to a confluence of worrying signs”, citing mass issuance of new-fangled credit instruments, soaring levels of household debt, extreme appetite for risk shown by investors, and entrenched imbalances in the world currency system…... The IMF and the UN have issued similar warnings, but they’ve all been shrugged off by the Bush administration. Neither Bush nor the Federal Reserve is interested in “course correction”. They plan to stick with the same harebrained policies until the end….” http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=6807

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By Skruff, August 11, 2007 at 6:23 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ardee

“I wonder if Skruff places special significance upon a flag made in the USA as opposed to one made elsewhere?”

A-yeah I do!  and a washing machine, and a TV set, and a Caterpillar back hoe. As a former resident of Lawrence Massachusetts, my five years there gave me a GREAT appriciation of US made textiles.  And as a Yankee, I do have an inordenately high regard for my area of the country. BUT having lived in many places from Arizona to Oregon, and Maine to Florida
(never been to California) I’ve never found a place in the US or Canada where I could not live happily!

AND, NO I do not “wrap myself in the flag” (although that comment gave my children a laugh) My flagpole has been nude since January 2000, and it will remain so until we have a President who did not steal the election. I currently love my country, but hate its government (both parties through at least 4 administrations)

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By cyrena, August 11, 2007 at 5:52 am Link to this comment

Doug,

Ironically enough, I had just finished reading Paul Krugman’s piece in the NYT, with this very same disaster, as it’s happening now, and how the fact that the feds and Central Bank are gonna pour all of these billions into stocking up the banks, and reducing the interest rate. Except of course it doesn’t do a bit of good if nobody is willing to loan any of the money, and nobody is buying.

Now, I figured out a long while back, when I was still a corporate slave, that this was eventually going to happen, though my own arrival at those conclusions was based on far less sophisticated knowledge of the workings of the economy. I’ve learned a lot more since, and as usual the best lessons are learned though first hand experiences, which can often be painful. So, now I understand what I “intuition-ed” back then, from the more complicated picture. And, it doesn’t look good. But, without meaning to sound in despair or anything, NOTHING has, for a very long time.

And, this doesn’t seem like a “brief” scare, even to those that are only paying 50% attention. It’s given me a headache. I might even have to find the hard stuff and throw a splash of it into my heart health pomegranate juice. (won’t be able to afford that any longer either).

Cheers. And, here’s the piece by Paul Krugman. Basically says the same thing. Very frightening.

Actually, I knew I’d read this somewhere else…it was on the common dreams site as well. So, that’s the link here.

“Very Scary Things”
Paul Krugman

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/08/10/3100

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By Douglas Chalmers, August 11, 2007 at 1:36 am Link to this comment

#93897 by cyrena on 8/11 at 12:07 am: “...it is bad for business. And, I don’t even know what all of “them” get out of it, (these posters that stick out so obviously against the grain, and seemingly only to agitate.) ..........And, I haven’t been doing this blogging long enough myself, to try and discern if these misfits are deliberately lurking, as part of some larger “assignment”, or if they’re just wing-nuts….”

I’ve been blogging in a few countries around the globe and the Brits, Americans and Aussies are the worst I have come across, cyrena - especially as regards the sexist and stupidly aggressive agenda displayed here recently. Countries where English is not the first language are by far the most polite.

I guess the NASCAR crowd and the juvenile YouTube watchers have progressed to Truthdig. Wow! Then again, politics and comment in America are more or less that shallow anyway. Truth and intelligence could be regarded as just another new form of entertainment…...

This “rapid decline of our system as we’ve known it” will now take on a more compelling appearance as the world’s central banks pour $billions down the drain of the biggest financial whilpool in history. Ironically, that is what happened in the 1990’s Asian financial crisis when countries like Hong Komg and Thailand had theitr economies wrecked by trying to hold onto the pegged values of their currencies against the $US.

Now, it is the $US and the rest ot the major currencies and the ‘yen carry trade’ fantasy currencies in Australia and New Zealand (read about it at Bloomberg’s) spinning out of control while the fools in the treasury have been looking the other way. Taxes might have to go up soon too to compensate for loss of liquidity.

Quote: ‘Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke was wrong’ - “...So were U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Merrill Lynch & Co. Chief Executive Officer Stanley O’Neal. The subprime mortgage industry’s problems were contained, they all said. It turns out that the turmoil was contagious….....

The $2 trillion market for mortgages not backed by government- sponsored agencies is at a standstill. That’s just the beginning. Other types of mortgages are suffering. So are firms and banks that package the debt for investors. The ripples were felt in Europe and Asia, where central banks offered cash to banks amid a credit crunch. And some corporations, from countertop makers to railroads, are blaming the mortgage meltdown and housing slump for earnings that fell short of analysts’ estimates….” http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aygqZPuV0y14&refer=home

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By cyrena, August 11, 2007 at 1:07 am Link to this comment

#93879 by Douglas Chalmers on 8/10 at 10:14 pm

•  Whoever are the owners of those screen names are not needed in a genuine converstation….. even on a blog. Its not freedom of speech to wantonly attack people or to post irrelevant drivel and its bad for business too.

Well, I agree…to all. And, it is bad for business. And, I don’t even know what all of “them” get out of it, (these posters that stick out so obviously against the grain, and seemingly only to agitate.) And, I haven’t been doing this blogging long enough myself, to try and discern if these misfits are deliberately lurking, as part of some larger “assignment”, or if they’re just wing-nuts. But then, that’s been the story of my life these past several years, trying to understand the inconceivable. So, there is definitely something to note in all of the articles about our slide into paranoia. And, that’s not to even mention the frustration and depression of experiencing this rapid decline of our system s we’ve known it, and feeling helpless to do anything about it.

So, when even more crazies sort of lurk in the background, it does create some damage, if only because, like all the rest of them, it’s can be difficult to figure out whether it’s the most sinister malfeasance, or if they simply don’t know any better. I have to assume the former, once enough posts have come though, because there’s no reason for people like Marshall or the Elder Earl to even be interested in a site like this. They should be keeping up with Rush Limbaugh and his antics. Or, hanging out at NASCAR races, or whatever. So, the intent there, seems just to agitate, and attempt to perpetrate the myths that the Cabal has maintained as their primary themes for all of this time.

So, we shall see if they clean up their act, at the TD headquarters at least. If not, we’ve managed to run a few others off, if only be ignoring them, or simply calling them out.

So, we’ll see.

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By Douglas Chalmers, August 10, 2007 at 11:14 pm Link to this comment

#93653 by cyrena on 8/10 at 5:27 am: “...They always show up, but they’re equally transparent in their attacks. Somehow, there doesn’t seem to be a motivation on the part of the Truthdig editors to do that though…..... So, I’m thinking you were being facetious about the Scheers. More honestly, I doubt they can possibly keep track of all these posts. I can’t. Not even close, and I suspect I have a whole lot more time on my hands than they do….”

Well, lets see if they can clean up their act a little, eh, cyrena. Whoever are the owners of those screen names are not needed in a genuine converstation….. even on a blog. Its not freedom of speech to wantonly attack people or to post irrelevant drivel and its bad for business too.

Apart from that, Truthdig haven’t even been able to keep up with the flow over the past few days and have slowed posts appearing for minutes and even hours. Pity they still can’t fix their software about that miserable “return to the topic” page which keeps appearing when you open an emailed link as well.

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By cyrena, August 10, 2007 at 9:56 pm Link to this comment

Thanks guys, for the flag info. I don’t wanna claim to be a flag waving fanatic, because I don’t have any overwhelmingly political or otherwise emotional attachment to it. But, I do dabble in textiles and needlework and sometimes there’s a need for a flag here and there. And, I was always really impressed with Betsy’s work on the originals. smile

And, unfortunately, I know for a fact that at least a portion of the U.S. flags that have gone into circulation, (or, more tragically, on the coffins of our troops) during the past 6 years have indeed been mass manufactured in parts of Asia.

Just like my 2nd purchase of a Gateway computer was shipped from Shanghais, even though Gateway is supposed to be in South Dakota, with mostly American workers putting them together. At least that was the case with my first one. So, when the next one came from Shanghais, I was thoroughly pissed off.

But, it’s worse about the flags. I just don’t like the cynicism it represents.

But, what else is new?

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By ardee, August 10, 2007 at 4:59 pm Link to this comment

Skruff postulates:

Who would want a flag from anywhere else?


I wonder if Skruff places special significance upon a flag made in the USA as opposed to one made elsewhere? Would then it be said that a flag made in one of the original thirteen colonies had more significance than one made in any other “johnny come lately” state? Would a flag made in a neighboring nation inspire more patriotic fervor than one made in a country not contiguous with our borders? Would it then be OK for someone to burn a flag made in Malasia but not in New England?

Not to say that I am not worried about our manufacturing jobs going abroad but the flag is a piece of cloth after all, and not a religious ikon. I think that Craig Washington, Democratic member of the Texas State Senate summed it up best:

” I prefer a man who will burn the flag and wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and wrap himslef in the flag.”

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By cyrena, August 10, 2007 at 1:35 pm Link to this comment

Ardee,

Thanks for those links for the flags. I’m gonna check them out.

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By ardee, August 10, 2007 at 11:30 am Link to this comment

Cyrena,

Two links to flags supposedly made in the USA:

http://www.americanflags.com/buyamericanflagsonline.htm

http://www.cvsflags.com/americanflags.cfm?kc=mXUYhsGzzf3t5HUjvbe12isXhH

There appear to be more manufacturers claiming to make flags here as well….

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By Skruff, August 10, 2007 at 6:56 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

93600 by cyrena on 8/09 at 8:38 pm Asks:

And I thank YOU – Skruff, from providing the same. If you also know the names of these EXISTING manufacturers, (because I think the New Hampshire flag making headquarters are gone now – and I don’t remember where Betsy Ross hailed from) I would be delighted to know that myself.

Here are my top three Flag Companies. I checked for you, and found that indeed, most US flags are still made in the USA. Who would want a flag from anywhere else?

Valley Forge Flag Company
1700 Conrad Weiser
Womelsdorf, PA 19567
.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) 


Allstates Flag Co.
816 Fee Fee Rd.
Maryland Hts., MO. 63043
1-800-688-FLAG (3524)
.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

Piedmont Flag Company
http://www.PiedmontFlag.Com
Post Office Box 685,
Maiden, North Carolina 28650-0685

Betsy “Ross” (a married name she was no longer using at the time she sewed the first US Flag) hails from
Philadelphia born on New Year’s Day, 1752 Her family (like my father’s) were conservative Quakers.

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By cyrena, August 10, 2007 at 6:27 am Link to this comment

#93646 by Douglas Chalmers on 8/10 at 4:08 am

Yes, I thought so! Scheer senior and Scheer junior have acquired some screen names through which they can play malicious cat-and-mouse games with their bloggers. As it is their blog, they think they have the right to do whatever they please - even for their own spurious entertainment.

There are some forums where the moderators and administrators viciously attack newcomers. There are others where they use vague screen names to conceal their attacks on bloggers they want to get rid of. Its a kind of sickness, really - jealousy.

===========================

Doug, are you part kidding and part serious on this?

I mean, do you believe that Robert and Josh Scheer, (and maybe James Harris as well) are really out to get us?

I’ve certainly had my own fair share of hate mail directed at me via these forums, but not all of it is. And, I’ve noticed over the months that the “screen names” who mostly attack me, are the same ones that attack Sheer and associates as well.

On the other hand, the same bunch do in fact seem to fit with these same screen names being somehow sick, the ones who attack other bloggers for the reasons that you’ve suggested..to run them off, and some sort of sick jealousy. It seems to me to be a matter of competition, and the need for attention. For those who cannot obtain the required “attention” based on their own personal merits, they gain it by knocking everyone else’s down. In other words, it’s the age old attempt to make oneself “look good”, by making a competitor (real or imagined) “look bad”.

And, all too often, the selected “enemy” hasn’t even put him or herself into the competition. 

They always show up, but they’re equally transparent in their attacks. Somehow, there doesn’t seem to be a motivation on the part of the Truthdig editors to do that though.

So, I’m thinking you were being facetious about the Scheers. More honestly, I doubt they can possibly keep track of all these posts. I can’t. Not even close, and I suspect I have a whole lot more time on my hands than they do. smile

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By Douglas Chalmers, August 10, 2007 at 5:08 am Link to this comment

#93520 by John Borowski on 8/09 at 2:05 pm: “....I will refer to Doug’s something because he doesn’t like my terminology. Therefore, I will call it xxxxxx. The plotters at Truthdig somehow knew he was going to deliver an earth-shaking xxxxxx. They hurriedly eliminated the article Last Days so they could head him off at the pass from doing so and it wouldn’t be their Last Days…”

Yes, I thought so! Scheer senior and Scheer junior have acquired some screen names through which they can play malicious cat-and-mouse games with their bloggers. As it is their blog, they think they have the right to do whatever they please - even for their own spurious entertainment.

There are some forums where the moderators and administrators viciously attack newcomers. There are others where they use vague screen names to conceal their attacks on bloggers they want to get rid of. Its a kind of sickness, really - jealousy.

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By cyrena, August 9, 2007 at 9:38 pm Link to this comment

Skruff writes: (can’t find the number)
•  Other on shore manufacturers are located in Missouri, North Carolina, and Illinois. 
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to inform posters on this site of American manufacturers still in business!

And I thank YOU – Skruff, from providing the same. If you also know the names of these EXISTING manufacturers, (because I think the New Hampshire flag making headquarters are gone now – and I don’t remember where Betsy Ross hailed from) I would be delighted to know that myself.

It has been many years now, since I’ve come across a US flag that was actually manufactured here in the U.S. I’ve seen lawn chairs, beach towels, caps, backpacks, etc, etc made out of material that has the basic design/theme/colors of the U.S. flag, (though I think those all come from China or India as well) but I’ve not come across a basic US FLAG for a real long time. The ones I see don’t fold correctly, because they aren’t made of real fabric, but this mixture of something that renders it “rubbery” almost like it’s got a petroleum base to it. Greasy in fact. Yikes! It just dawned on me – they reek of OIL.

But, those are the ones that are in fact mass shipped from China. So, I’d be delighted to get a real one.

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By Leefeller, August 9, 2007 at 6:31 pm Link to this comment

Hey Chompers,

What are you doing out.  Your over here pissing off people that agree with you?
I guess your posting marathon is working.  The problem is Doug you are getting your postings mixed up Mid City Mike is on the Hitchens Post.

On topic now.

Their is an agenda by the powers that be, to create a new world order, we see the hand writing on the wall with the support of our governemnt towards WTO, Nafta and then big business not even being tied to borders. 

Bush, Congress and Special Interests have got us by the tenders. We can be aware and try to vote the bums out, but that has not worked yet, so why would it start now?

Prove me wrong and I will be a happy camper.

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By John Borowski, August 9, 2007 at 3:05 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The following is an updated version edited by my Honeybunch to celebrate the finding of her glasses. This is Doug’s fantasy logic. I will refer to Doug’s something because he doesn’t like my terminology. Therefore, I will call it xxxxxx. The plotters at Truthdig somehow knew he was going to deliver an earth-shaking xxxxxx. They hurriedly eliminated the article Last Days so they could head him off at the pass from doing so and it wouldn’t be their Last Days. The xxxxxx apparently had an ephemeral life, because even when Last Days was back on board in two days xxxxxx was useless. This prevented poor Doug from having another go at it when Last Days came back on line. Unlike the Space Station, my logic is more down to earth. The technical people will remove an article for a reason. It might mean there is a bug that crawled into it. The techies might be trying to step on the bug before it has babies. They might be making room for a new article on the home page, or a myriad of other reasons. If you try to load this article when they are working on it, you will be unable to do so for technical reasons. Anybody that has worked on a computer will from time to time experienced this inability to load what you want. The older version of this epistle I tried to sneak in while she was glassless.

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By John Borowski, August 9, 2007 at 7:14 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This is Doug’s fantasy logic. I will refer to Doug’s something because he doesn’t like my terminology. Therefore, I will call it xxxxxx. The plotters at Truthdig somehow knew he was going to deliver an earth-shaking xxxxxx. They hurriedly eliminated the article Last Days so they could head him off at the pass from doing so. The xxxxxx apparently had an ephemeral life, because even when Last Days was back on board in two days it was useless. This prevented poor Doug from having another go at it when it came back on line. Unlike the Space Station, my logic is more down to earth. The technical people will remove an article for a reason. It might mean there is a bug in it. They might be making room for a new article on the home page, or a myriad of other reasons. If you try to load this article when they are working on it, you will be unable to do so for technical reasons. Anybody that has worked on a computer will from time to time experienced this inability to load what you want. My love-mate also lost her glasses. As a result, our honeymoon will be delayed for a day.

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By Calibpatriot, August 8, 2007 at 1:06 pm Link to this comment

“we will on day be like Nazi Germany was”

Why the future tense?  We are there NOW. 

Our supposed opposition party, the Democrats, have become every bit as ineffective at putting the stops on our out of control neo-fascist administration and their neocon cadre as was the weak Wiemar government in Germany during the Nazi rise to power.

The MSM has become the propanda mouth-piece for this rogue regime.

Bush lied us into an unprovoked war in Iraq to satisfy his lust for its oil riches.

This regime is in the process of trashing our constitution and the rights guaranteed by it.

We now have “big brother” eves-dropping on our emails and telophone conversations.

This administration refuses to release documented materials that may incriminate them to Congress.

BushCo has contributed to global warming by weakening environmental controls in favor of greater profits for the mega corporations.

Bushco has condoned the torture of detainees and has eliminated habeus corpus regarding the detainees at Guantanamo.

We all know about the infamous “signing statements” and “recess appointments”.

If the totality of these actions by the Bush regime don’t prove that we have a defacto fascist government right now, nothing will.

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By Skruff, August 8, 2007 at 6:20 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

93071 by cyrena on 8/08 at 2:23 am

“Meantime, I have no problems with taking the flags out of the classrooms, especially since every last one of them is manufactured in China anyway.”

The truth is; most flags (31/2X23/4) were manufactured in that communist den of iniquity, Manchester New Hampshire at the old Amoskeag textile mill.

Other on shore manufacturers are located in Missouri, North Carolina, and Illinois. 

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to inform posters on this site of American manufacturers still in business!

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By cyrena, August 8, 2007 at 3:23 am Link to this comment

#93064 by Douglas Chalmers on 8/08 at 1:31 am

•  Ha ha, cyrena, you’re telling me that I am plowing on with my “agendas”?

No Doug, not YOUR agenda, (though I admit that we all have them) I was actually talking more about the others, whom insist on running their “opinions” rather than any “facts” into the ground. Like, I’m pretty tired of hearing all of the religious rants, and the Zionism rants, and all the rest of the stuff that may have a place in all of this mess, but surely are not the overwhelming concerns of most Americans, or even the foreigners that we do war on. AND, they post this shit wherever they can, whether it has anything to do with the price of a bagel in Iraq or not.

So no, I have no trouble with your agenda, or the fact that you are plowing through it. On any of the postings that I’ve read from you, I generally find it information that we should ALL have, in our knowledge bases, or at least know that it’s out there to be considered.

And, my own agenda is not so different. I’m mostly interested in hearing what others have to say, and in picking up additional knowledge in the process. I trust myself well enough to generally separate the valuable from the BS.

And now, I’m gonna check out some of those screen names you left me the link for.

And, thanks. Your agenda is so far OK by me. (not that you were looking for my approval or anything, but I thought I’d throw that in.):)

Meantime, I’m not worried about any children of MY OWN, (I’ve only birthed one, and she died in her infancy) but I AM worried about all of the others, for which I feel a certain responsibility to pass on a future. And, there’s no doubt that I want them to learn enough to keep this thing going. Or, in this case, turn this thing back around. And, unfortunately, it will be THEM that will have to do this. We can advise, and pass along common sense and the wisdom that comes from experience. But in the end, it will be their jobs, and I suppose that’s what worries me the most. So, in that respect, they are my kids I suppose.

Meantime, I have no problems with taking the flags out of the classrooms, especially since every last one of them is manufactured in China anyway.

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By Douglas Chalmers, August 8, 2007 at 2:31 am Link to this comment

#93059 by cyrena on 8/08 at 12:21 am: “...And, I’ve discovered this to be a problem for many; the whole thing with getting off topic, (even though there are more than enough threads and stories to keep them ON topic). For some, it doesn’t matter. The boards are just a way to post their own agendas…....... Obviously, some folks still think that “prayer” is gonna save them. They’ll still be praying for YOU .........They aren’t worried though…”

Ha ha, cyrena, you’re telling me that I am plowing on with my “agendas”? Of course I am - and those others just keep on ignoring everything that anyone else writes and proceed with their diatribes and warped convesations pathetically attacking each other. Try some of the screen names here at http://www.truthdig.com/interview/item/20070606_christopher_hitchens_religion_poisons_everything/  for “poisonous” off-topic offensive drivel.

Don’t worry, though, you won’t be carted off to prison for anything yet. Maybe next month if Cheney’s terrorist attack predictions are made to come true….... anything could then happen! Frankly, though, the right wing are too busy looking for opportunities to exploit the climate change imperatives for profit. The neocons are still alive….. didn’t they all get killed off in Iraq??? And China is still hosting the Olympic Games in 2008.

I think that a little “bravery” now will pay big dividends in personal freedom down the track for both yourself and your kids. Timidity and fear are too easily manipulated by the powers that be. We should be asking why they want total control anyway. Instead, people have been bowing and scraping…..yessir, Mr. President, sir. Faaaaar outtt!!! Maybe there shouldn’t be a flag in classrooms and everywhere if that is all that it produces….... seriously!

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By cyrena, August 8, 2007 at 1:21 am Link to this comment

#93054 by Douglas Chalmers on 8/07 at 11:45 pm

•  Perhaps it would be better if you just got back on topic, though

Douglas,

This was part of your response to (#92744 by John Borowski on 8/07 at 4:28 am) “...

And, I’ve discovered this to be a problem for many; the whole thing with getting off topic, (even though there are more than enough threads and stories to keep them ON topic). For some, it doesn’t matter. The boards are just a way to post their own agendas, and maybe it has something to do with what the articles are actually SAYING, and maybe not. We see the same stuff, posted by the same screen names, and it rarely has anything to do with the topic at hand. So, sometimes these folks should be ignored. Maybe even most of the time.

Obviously, some folks still think that “prayer” is gonna save them. They’ll still be praying for YOU, as they themselves are shackled and hauled off by the national police, to prisons unknown, for receiving a spam e-mail from a Nigerian scam planner, or maybe a scam notification from the UK Lottery system. (I get those as well; and all unsolicited) They aren’t worried though. They’ll keep praying for you, even from wherever george has them locked-up.

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By Douglas Chalmers, August 8, 2007 at 12:45 am Link to this comment

#92744 by John Borowski on 8/07 at 4:28 am: “...Thanks for the revelations in your explanations for the ambiguities that somebody (Probably dress in all black) absconded with your documents. I’m sure your only motive was to make the world better again. I’ll pray for you….”

Oh yes, that’s a certainty if Kaufman or one of the Scheers wears a black shirt/pants/dress/whatever. But it wasn’t my “documents” but my - and Skruff’s - earlier postings in this topic. I guess you can’t understand plain English -  or you work at Truthdig, duh.

Perhaps it would be better if you just got back on topic, though. We would all appreciate your “prayers” as far as the impending catastrophe of human rights and personal liberty is concerned and all that it implies. Maybe you could also ‘pull your finger out’ and do something positive to help instead of slagging at those who actually do try…..

QuoteJames Harris: “Elliot….. for the most part, you’re saying that our government in the United States is coming to an end.  And that we are headed toward a dictatorship, toward authoritarian rule.  The idea that we will one day be like Nazi Germany was ... is hard for a lot of Americans to swallow….”

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By GW=MCHammered, August 7, 2007 at 11:35 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

re: #92044 by Douglas Chalmers on 8/03 at 6:00 pm

I own me. The malcontent that cheered Carlin possesses me. TruthDig endures me to bits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KReZyAZLI0
http://www.kickthemallout.com
http://www.unity08.com

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By mike, August 7, 2007 at 12:15 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This has been in the work for years.  I remember a interview on cost to cost am back in 03 or 04 with a ex CIA agent who was complaning about being taken of the hunt for Ossama so they could work on the war on porn on the internet.  Gonzoles was put into the justice dep to start that war.  The whole thing with the patroit act and the libarys was to check on people surfing porn.  And now you have the necons in control of most media outlets but what THE INTERNET.Who has burned bush and comp over and over agian with their lies.  The internet.

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By John Borowski, August 7, 2007 at 7:01 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The biggest prison ever built on the earth for the American people is debt. Once you are imprisoned, you have a life sentence. Who owns the prison? It is the evils of London and Europe. Why are they allowed to degrade life for the American people? The have total control over the vast ocean of ignorance. This ignorance is only allowed to hear from TV, newspapers, magazines, and right wing talk shows, what the British and Europeans want them to hear and believe.

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By John Borowski, August 7, 2007 at 5:28 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Doug, Thanks for the revelations in your explanations for the ambiguities that somebody (Probably dress in all black) absconded with your documents. I’m sure your only motive was to make the world better again. I’ll pray for you.

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By Douglas Chalmers, August 6, 2007 at 5:47 pm Link to this comment

#92611 by Bladerunner on 8/06 at 2:36 pm: “...I’m sick and tired of being sick and tired of our political system. It was stolen decades ago and we haven’t done anything to stop it…..”

Try “Princess Blade” for a change, then - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0310149/

#92494 by John Borowski on 8/06 at 6:31 am: “...How you lost your comment on the article you couldn’t find I’m still trying to figure out. .....You can only type a comment on an article if you have the article on screen to begin with. I am please and amused by how many retorts I get. So far it is going swell….”

So many unnecessary statements merely to get to the fact that you don’t understand the obvious, JB.

They (Truthdig) lost the “article” - I didn’t lose my “comment’ - it and Skruff’s comment in reply were both deleted. So, in fact, the topic or article wan’t “lost” - it was made to disappear at least until my posting was also made to disappear. Then it was put back on the front page with a new link as I explained, duh…...

My posting was about “Bravery” which was relevant and appropriate for this topic’s issues. It dealt with why we need courage and fortitude to confront the system which is presently trying to enslave us. I quoted from a mystical text , “The Nine Freedoms”, published by The Aetherius Press in California.

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By Bladerunner, August 6, 2007 at 3:36 pm Link to this comment

I’m sick and tired of being sick and tired of our political system. It was stolen decades ago and we haven’t done anything to stop it.

http://dailygrail.com/node/5066

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By felicity, August 6, 2007 at 2:22 pm Link to this comment

Through the years I have watched news broadcasts deteriorate into a lot of eye-candy interrupted by occasional 3-minute infusions of ‘news’ until a major tragedy occurs when we are ‘entertained’ by personal accounts of human suffering - the more personal the better. (I often wonder if reporters realize that in their quest for accounts of human pain and suffering they more closely resemble vampires out for blood than journalists out for a story.)

The disgust level with msm has risen to the point where most people who will ever do anything about anything have turned them off. 

I think until, if, or when the middle-to-upper-income people ever start to take it in their financial necks and get pissed off,  the DC crowds aren’t about to upset their prosperous apple carts and change their ways.

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By John Borowski, August 6, 2007 at 1:11 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

One of the cabal of wealthy Europeans and British (The Federal Reserve) stated, “Let me issue and control a nation’s money and I care not who writes its laws.” People don’t want to confront or believe in evil things in life. This is why they will kill the messenger bearing bad news even if it is true. They will honor the messenger bearing good news even if it is false. Without hope in life, the will to carry on is restricted. Let’s assume a hypothetical situation. I was given the right by the government to have a miniature money machine that prints money that is legal tender. I could go to an automobile dealer and buy a Rolls – Royce complete with moon roof and spoiler on the back. If the dealer refused my funny money, he would go to jail for refusing legal tender. Rightys please don’t read this if your taking medicine and operating farm machine

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By John Borowski, August 6, 2007 at 7:31 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Doug, in reference to my dissertation entitled Ain’t got no education. Another trick I used to find an article I want is to list it in my favorites. I give it a name that is easy to remember. When I want what I want, I just go to my favorites. I usually give it second place right below first place sex. This procedure will bring it up quick as a cat can wink his eye. How you lost your comment on the article you couldn’t find I’m still trying to figure out. The white board is usually at the bottom of the article. You can only type a comment on an article if you have the article on screen to begin with. I am please and amused by how many retorts I get. So far it is going swell.

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By Douglas Chalmers, August 6, 2007 at 1:38 am Link to this comment

#92288 by John Borowski on 8/05 at 4:12 am: “...My dear Mike Mid – City, in one of your recent comments you stated (Besides Doug, I’m the only one here who is religious)....”

As for me, well, I’m not ‘tpp’ religious’, though. And I see that Leefeller is commenting here now and has suddebly acquires some manners so hopefully we all won’t get the kind of earful that he has been known for in some topics…...

#92123 by John Borowski on 8/04 at 4:30 am (Unregistered commenter):  “...you ain’t got no education. Truthdig rotates their articles as food stores rotate their food products. Some files are put in the bleachers because they want some new articles on the home page. ....... There might be a conspiracy in 9\11, but I’m sure there is none in Truthdig…”

That’s the trouble with unregistered commenters - they can’t be bothered checking their own view of facts. I am well aware of what I commented about and that “The Last Days of Democracy” topic was new and that it had been pullled after I posted - and then reappeared with a new link address 2 days after.

I have already mailed both Scheer and ZK at Truthdig as well as the publishers of the book (The Nine Freedoms) I quoted from (also in LA) to make a formal complaint as it was plainly obvious that something was done - although I have no idea why - but I can imagine it is not what you think - “you ain’t got no education”, JB.

Ref: #92051 and #92044 by Douglas Chalmers on 8/03 at 6:24 pm

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By Leefeller, August 5, 2007 at 6:20 pm Link to this comment

Scruff,

The differences between the parties is for show,  only in some peoples minds we have stereotyped differences.  Smoke and mirrors, just follow the money.

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By Skruff, August 5, 2007 at 6:05 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

92381 by ardee on 8/05 at 4:42 pm

“Skruff, I do not know what you read when you come here but I see as much or more criticisms of the Democrats as I do of the GOP. Are you really so very agendised as all that?”

I don’t know what you read, but (yet again) it wasn’t what I wrote. 

Try answering again;

What is facism called when the D’s do it?

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By ardee, August 5, 2007 at 5:42 pm Link to this comment

Skruff, I do not know what you read when you come here but I see as much or more criticisms of the Democrats as I do of the GOP. Are you really so very agendised as all that?

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By John Borowski, August 5, 2007 at 3:26 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

As I type this, I’m praying no right-winger is sitting by the pool. The reason this government doesn’t have any law on the books regarding taxation is because they don’t tax. The Federal Reserve taxes the American people. Anytime the government wants money for something. The Federal Reserve (A cabal of wealthy Europeans) prints the real funny money on their printing presses. This arcane loan to the government is secured by taxes from the American people. The first country to establish this arrangement was England in the late 1600s (They called it the Bank of England) like the Federal Reserve it had nothing to do with the English government). Today almost all major countries participate in this fraud.

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By Skruff, August 5, 2007 at 1:46 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

So from the derth of comment about the D’s hijacking the vote on foodstamps and housing for criminal aliens, I guess that means only R’s can be facists?  When the D’s do it it’s called????  ?

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By ardee, August 5, 2007 at 8:35 am Link to this comment

#92222 by Evan W. on 8/04 at 6:04 pm
(2 comments total)

It doesn’t seem to me like there’s some massive conspiracy to kill democracy. The government has pretty much always been engaged in shady dealings that most people are unaware of. Want to talk about BS/unjustified wars for imperialistic reasons? Look no farther than Presidents Polk or McKinley (Mexican and Spanish Wars). Let’s face it: our government is not, never has been, and never will be a total and ‘true’ democracy. People, in general, are just too apathetic.

Perceptive rationale, Evan, there is only a lack of participation that allows those who actively pursue their own self interests to triumph. It took only until our second President, John Adams (Bushs’ favorite by the by), before we saw an infringement on our liberties, the Alien and Sedition Act.

Most people are too busy raising families, building careers and lives to actively participate other than a vote every now and again, and on people and issues only partly understood. Human nature one might note, but unsatisfactorily.

This is a half full/half empty metaphor in some respects.One might take away a feeling that things can only get worse due to this penchant for allowing those in power to make decisions without considering the ramifications therof. I prefer to take a more optimistic stance in saying that, in order to restore our nation to its proper path, we must simply find a way to reengage the public in the process. Your choice.

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By John Borowski, August 5, 2007 at 5:58 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

My dear Leefeller will you please stop using paragraphs. I misplaced my glasses and it is impossible to find them if I’m not wearing my glasses. It is so much easier for me to read comments with out paragraphs when my glasses are hiding some place.

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By John Borowski, August 5, 2007 at 5:12 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

My dear Mike Mid – City, in one of your recent comments you stated (Besides Doug, I’m the only one here who is religious). How do you know the personal history and preferences of all the other extreme right on this file? Do you all work in the same right wing boiler room? If I were an extreme right-winger, I wouldn’t patronize this type web page. I would find the extreme right wing web pages more to my liking. On the right wing web page, I could cluck – cluck and all of the rightys would cluck – cluck back in full agreement. All of us would be pleased as a pig in warm mud with our “truths”.

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By cyrena, August 5, 2007 at 3:53 am Link to this comment

#92107 by moodyco on 8/04 at 12:53 am

•  Create and define the enemy.  Make him invisible and demonstrate it’s capability of striking American soil.  War for profit.

Moodyco,

This was extremely helpful, the entire post. I remember that my access at the time, was limited to mainstream media. We didn’t get anything like this, at least not that I can remember.

I have – SINCE, been able to access more and more information of this type, but it took a while.

In the end, it comes down to exactly what you’ve said. War for profit. And, I can remember a neighbor saying the same thing (at the time) in slightly different words…He said, all he knows is, every time there’s a war, everybody makes a lot of money. (obviously, I was not included in the “everybody” and that was in fact before the disaster was actually initiated.)

Looking back, I often wonder if it would have made a difference, if he knew what the price would be. I don’t know about him, but it’s overwhelmingly clear that it is of no consequence to our leaders. As long as there is money to be made, they will make war.

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By Verne Arnold, August 5, 2007 at 3:47 am Link to this comment

#92080 by cyrena on 8/03 at 9:05 pm
(654 comments total)

#91989 by Verne Arnold on 8/03 at 10:47 am

• #91962 by Leefeller on 8/03 at 9:03 am
(260 comments total)
• Good words, and you haven’t posted a lot lately yourself.  Like me, maybe your tired.  This work must be picked up and carried by the young or we’re cooked, yes?

Verne, glad to hear from you.

As usual you reply with grace and kindness, thank you.  As you know, I’m not 100% convinced of the value of posting here, but, it’s sort of like the guy who prays but doesn’t know if he believes…can’t hurt.

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By Verne Arnold, August 5, 2007 at 3:36 am Link to this comment

#92096 by Leefeller on 8/03 at 10:23 pm
(265 comments total)

Verne Arnold

“You are correct, I have not been posting much of late.  Been having a ball on the Hitchen Post, now it seems to be winding down.” 

Yes, I understand…62 here (just).  Rant on…it is good for the soul.  I called my best friend in America and had a 15-20 minute rant yesterday.  She listened patiently and understood completely (we’re like minded in these things).  I felt pretty good afterwards.  I think “Rants” come when our view of common sense, responsibility, compassion, freedom and logic are defied, stymied, and buried by the propaganda machines of whom-ever thinks they are in control, then, we, feeling powerless, because we can’t do that which we know is the “right thing”...go punch the bankrupt, fascist, bastards in the nose.

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By Verne Arnold, August 5, 2007 at 3:18 am Link to this comment

#92096 by Leefeller on 8/03 at 10:23 pm
(265 comments total)

“When people who speak the truth like Mike Gravel or Dennis Kucinich are shucked to the side lines, we have pablum, change will never happen when folks are ingrained with partisan politics, Money speaks.”

Yup!  Pablum, god I hate that stuff!

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By Margaret Currey, August 5, 2007 at 2:27 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

When Bush won (stole) the election the manager of my apartment was sick as were a lot of people the signing statements and now Bush wants his FISA thing his way or he wont sign it, what he is doing is holding Congresses feet to the fire, you know they want to leave for their month vacation, of course they probably don’t take a long vacation like Bush does I think they talk to their people and I hope that listen because between signing statements and Bush selling arms to the Sadis who are also the enemy, I just hope the American people wake up and see that this gang has to go, no laws will pass and to say Impeachment is off the table is just crazy becuase these people just want one power and the people are just like in the old days if you have no money you are nobody.  If you have no connections you are a no body.

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By louis, August 4, 2007 at 7:43 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVdh0lxPJF8

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By Evan W., August 4, 2007 at 7:04 pm Link to this comment

It doesn’t seem to me like there’s some massive conspiracy to kill democracy. The government has pretty much always been engaged in shady dealings that most people are unaware of. Want to talk about BS/unjustified wars for imperialistic reasons? Look no farther than Presidents Polk or McKinley (Mexican and Spanish Wars). Let’s face it: our government is not, never has been, and never will be a total and ‘true’ democracy. People, in general, are just too apathetic.

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By cyrena, August 4, 2007 at 1:22 pm Link to this comment

Comment#92108 by Outraged on 8/04 at 1:26 am

Outraged, thanks so much for posting this wonderful comment about our youth. They are indeed a whole lot more observant and politically involved than many of their parents were/are, and this is a very good thing.

I’ve got a gang of my own, scattered about, (though not nearly as large as yours)and I am very proud of them, (as well as their parents)for encouraging them in that respect. My neices and nephews are smart and involved, and while they certainly tune into some of their own stuff that’s a bit much for me, (like some of the music) they too will read the sites and articles that I recommend, and then even follow it up with their own questions.

I think it’s wonderful, and it gives me hope, when there isn’t a whole lot of it coming from the places we’re generally inclined to look.

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By 4real, August 4, 2007 at 11:55 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Federally sponsored goon squads already at work:

http://www.freedomfchs.com/unwarranted_surveillance.pdf

See also “residentcynics diary” at:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/8/1/42635/43285

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By Can of Whoop Ass, August 4, 2007 at 9:30 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Don’t sell the young people short.  Remember, these republicans are a generation raised by their GRANDPARENTS, because Daddy is out stealing and getting crack and Mommy’s selling her ass on the corner.
:^D

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, August 4, 2007 at 8:06 am Link to this comment

An almost rant.

Most of us on this post seem to all agree that everything is not hunky dory in Oz. For some time now I see partisan politics becoming sort of a rug over our eyes.  Both parties support the war in subtle ways, we have impeachment off the table.  Special interests sales folks still roam the halls of congress with impunity.  If you or I acted like we owned the place we would be thrown out. Money talks.  We are at war for the sake of money. 

Let’s face it we buy unfathomable amounts of weaponry,  the same companies sell unfathomable amounts of weponry to our future enemies. We have all heard the story about G.W.B.‘s great grandfather buying defective rifles from the government and selling them back at a profit.  Suppose this still is good business today.

Bold face lies turned into something called slight oversights.  The White House has lied, and lied on top of lies and we listen, we watch manipulated nothing but the news at “Fox the News Channel.” 

Some posters have screamed at me to wait for the rule of law, congress is in the show and tell stages, it has only been 10 months since the Democrats have gained the upper hand. 

Party politics is the problem, especially when the people are not respected before the party.  This incljdes both parties.  Not all politicians are like this, but if you watch the money during the presidential campaign, follow the money and see who gets the most coverage by our mass media. After the smoke settles, Clinton or Obama will be the winners and we will have status quo with a slight twist leaning from Bush. 

When people who speak the truth like Mike Gravel or Dennis Kucinich are shucked to the side lines, we have pablum, change will never happen when folks are ingrained with partisan politics,  Money speaks.

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By John Borowski, August 4, 2007 at 5:30 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Douglas Chalmers, you ain’t got no education. Truthdig rotates their articles as food stores rotate their food products. Some files are put in the bleachers because they want some new articles on the home page. If you want Last Days you use the search to get it. There might be a conspiracy in 9\11, but I’m sure there is none in Truthdig.

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By John Borowski, August 4, 2007 at 5:02 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

My dear Leefeller

My paragraphs sit idly by

From the wind, the cold,and the pain.

And they bolt the door against my heart

Out wailing in the rain.

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By Outraged, August 4, 2007 at 2:26 am Link to this comment

OK. I just have to post again after “hearing” all the comments.  Don’t sell the young people short.  Remember, this was a generation raised by their GRANDPARENTS, at least a lot of them.  However, as a parent who didn’t have that opportunity, and from what I’m gathering, just a little younger than y’all, don’t be misled.  These young people care very much what is going on.  Let me qualify my statements:

I myself have five young adult children, when you include their friends and signifigant others and THEIR friends as well, it adds up.  In addition, I have over 50 nieces and nephews and have met many of their friends also. (yeah, I come from a large family)

The young people, by and large, are NOT buying the bullshit that they are being spoon-fed.  Some do, but MORE don’t.  Most times when I “encourage”  them to check out Truthdig and sites like it, they do.  However, I think they’re just a little bit intimidated and rightfully so.  Ah..but the great thing is they go back and they try to figure it all out and they ponder…and they ponder….and many (that I’m PERSONALLY familiar with), will ask questions.  THERE YOU GO!!  THAT’S ALL IT TAKES.

KEEP ON PUTTING THE WORD OUT THERE, and take heart, young people are just people like everybody else ONLY WITH MORE STAMINA!!

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By moodyco, August 4, 2007 at 1:53 am Link to this comment

The information on the buildup to war was available to anyone with the internet.  I began my research the day the war started.  On the 23rd of March, 2003 while looking over the JINSA (Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs) website, under the headline “The Origin of ‘Shock & Awe’U.S. ‘Hyperwar’ Doctrine Laid Out in 1996 Study Co-Authored by JINSA Advisor Lieutenant Admiral Leon “Bud” Edney,” comes the following introduction;

“In December of 1996, the National Defense University published a study of future U.S. combat operations, based on a concept known as hyperwar. The study, entitled the now-familiar phrase, “Shock and Awe”, focused on using overwhelming, rapidly-advancing force to defeat an enemy with the psychological stress of facing a markedly superior, apparently unstoppable force. This theory has, thus far, been borne out in the remakable real-time images being broadcast from the front lines of Operation Iraqi Freedom, as American and British forces advance towards Baghdad.

In addition to directly contributing to the proposed warfighting paradigm shifts found within the study, “Shock and Awe”: Achieving Rapid Dominance, three recently-retired U.S. military commanders, including Admiral Leon A. Bud Edney, U.S.N. (Ret) - a member of JINSA’s Board of Advisors, directly address “Shock and Awe” via their command experience.” 
 
What followed was a poorly written but highly revealing document.  It would appear the primary reason for the war in Iraq begins “With the end of the Cold War and the dismantling of the Soviet Union, there is no major power capable of destroying the U.S. mainland. Given this absence of devastating threat, defense expenditures will continue to be squeezed to address more pressing domestic priorities. Voter demands for a balanced budget, national health care, social security reform, educational reform, family values, crime and drug use reduction, lower taxes, etc., will combine to put increasing pressure on the defense bottom line in the out years. The result will be a steady decline in war fighting readiness and force structure that will place our security interests at risk unless we leverage our technology leadership to achieve military advantage with lower force levels but increased war fighting effectiveness.”
 
In defining the problem the documentcontinues “The absence of a direct and daunting external security threat is, of course, a most obvious aspect of the difficulty in defining the future defense posture of the nation. The United States has long resisted maintaining a large standing military and the Cold War years could prove an aberration to that history. Extending this historical observation of small standing forces, it is clear that there is no adversary on the horizon even remotely approaching the military power of the former USSR.

While we might conjure up nominal regional contingencies against Korea or Iraq as sensible planning scenarios for establishing the building blocks for force structure, it will prove difficult to sustain the current defense program over the long term without a real threat materializing to rally and coalesce public support. Allocating three percent or less of GDP for defense could easily prove to be a ceiling and not a floor. It should be noted that in Europe, defense spending is closing in on 1 to 2 percent of GDP.”
 
Create and define the enemy.  Make him invisible and demonstrate it’s capability of striking American soil.  War for profit.

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By Leefeller, August 3, 2007 at 11:33 pm Link to this comment

John Borowski,

A little advice, of course you can tell me to stick it.

Do us a little favor and please use some paragraphs, it makes for far easier reading. 

Also recommend you register, means you are serious about replying to comments regarding your posts. 

Otherwise you are on a soapbox facing the wall.

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By Leefeller, August 3, 2007 at 11:23 pm Link to this comment

Verne Arnold

You are correct, I have not been posting much of late.  Been having a ball on the Hitchen Post, now it seems to be winding down. 

Yes I am tired, find doing things that used to be a cake walk are becoming harder and harder to do.  Have the body of a 70 year old (I am 61) and the mind of a 20 year old. This is what happens in the scheme of things.

If I had not gone to Vietnam, I would have been in the thick of the anti war movement in the seventies.  I had problems with Afghanistan, but was really opposed to going into Iraq, when Bush went into Iraq, I said here is Vietnam all over again. It seems worse than Vietnam, because we do not have a draft.  The draft is what kicked Vietnam war in the arse and got us out of there. Our troops are cannon fodder now, seems some folks think since they volunteered they should do what they are told.  Guess it does not matter if it makes sense and has no reason.

The anti war rallies seem to not have many folks.  I attended the 1000 dead rally in our town, only twelve of us showed up.  The mass media has the majority of folks selectively non-informed. 

Dale Headley has the basic idea correct, the fascist concept is quite accurate, the connection of business and government seems to be on the money, no pun intended.

Since I like to write, I throw in little jabs here and there, just like you, maybe I need to post a good rant, they are good for the soul, if you are so inclined.  Good to see you still here Verne.

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By cyrena, August 3, 2007 at 10:05 pm Link to this comment

#91989 by Verne Arnold on 8/03 at 10:47 am

•  #91962 by Leefeller on 8/03 at 9:03 am
(260 comments total)
•  Good words, and you haven’t posted a lot lately yourself.  Like me, maybe your tired.  This work must be picked up and carried by the young or we’re cooked, yes?

Verne, glad to hear from you. It has been a while, but I wanted to say that we’ve missed you, even though I understand perfectly, that you might be tired. Indeed, we all have those times. At least anyone who is not already comatose does have those times. They are to be expected, and we should in fact take those occasional “breaks” while we still have a chance. At least that’s my own position.
Because, in the end, it is our youth that will have to take up and continue this work. BUT, they need us to look to for some kind of wisdom, and a way to connect the technologies of the 21st Century with the wisdom of the earlier centuries. (or at least the earlier decades). So, you can only “semi-retire”. Take those breaks, (catch the salmon when they’re running, as Ardee did last week) but just don’t take any more than you and your family can eat, and then get back in the saddle, even if it’s just to give moral support and guidance to those youth, who must take up the work. Otherwise, you’re right. We’re already “cooked”, but maybe they can save us from being charred through and through.

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By cyrena, August 3, 2007 at 9:22 pm Link to this comment

#92002 by John Borowski on 8/03 at 1:33 pm

•  Senator Kennedy, while attempting to board an airplane recently was denied passage because the right wing had him down as a terrorist.

John, the radical right has been doing this for years, but at the peon level, so few hear about it. This very same thing has been happening to me for years, but we don’t usually hear about it, until it happens to someone with more public visibility, like a Kennedy, or even now, a Michael Moore, or anyone else who attempts to voice a dissenting opinion to fascism.

And you’re right, they seem to derive much pleasure from doing these things.

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By 1drees, August 3, 2007 at 7:49 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

God Help Humanity against the American-Zionist attack, i know that iraq, iran & others will Survive the Zionist attacks. Good Luck to All Honest Americans!

ZIONISTS:Ones who believe they are the “only” humans(God’s"Chosen ones”)& rest is “Trash” to be consumed / used. MODUSOPERENDI:start as business and bilk the populations while laying down Organisations that are for (fake)trade & “our protection” whose actual purpose is surveillance & Harrassement of “nonZIONIST”. they keep screaming “Hitler’s holocaust, Hitler’s holocaust” while they been doing WORSE since 1948 in their Fanatic Fantasyland called Israel aka “shitty little state”, armed with 300 nuclear bombs that they dont want to talk about.(these are peaceful people!lol) GOAL: creation of some nutty global empire based on pureness of “Chosen Ones” ENEMIES: anyone that does not Comply with them or their propaganda (is also branded an
Antisemite & thoroughly harassed) NETWORK: global and very developed, a well oiled machine bent on EVIL. FEARS: “EVERYBODY is out to get us because we are GOOD!” this is the typical brainwash and then they
WHITEWASH real issues with PATRIOTIC LIES. Also intresting to note that Mr Vanunu who stated the true state of Israeli Nukes rots in jails since 2 decades for speaking the truth, hence we can safely conclude
that TRUTH is definately not a passion in Israel. so GOD HELP ALL THAT COME IN CONTACT WITH ZIONISTS!  GOODLUCK!

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By Douglas Chalmers, August 3, 2007 at 7:24 pm Link to this comment

#91704 by Skruff on 8/02 at 9:24 am (Unregistered commenter: “...Here’s the last days of Democracy site. they repositioned it, but it was not “removed” as I posterd earlier. 
http://www.truthdig.com/podcast/item/20070730_the_last _days_of_democracy/
If this doesn’t work, go to http://www.truthdig.com/podcast/

it’s the first article….” http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20070731_a_call_to_service/

Skruff’s posting referring and discussing mine has been removed too!!!

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By Douglas Chalmers, August 3, 2007 at 7:00 pm Link to this comment

#91965 by GW=MCHammered on 8/03 at 9:25 am: “...“It’s called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.”  ~George Carlin…”

Who Owns You, TruthDig?

#91596 by Douglas Chalmers on 8/01 at 10:46 pm
(476 comments total): “...More strange happeneings - the very recent TruthDig blog “The Last Days of Democracy” has been removed. “Sorry, Page Not Found” is the message I keep getting for the past 24 hours despite contacting them. Something I said there that yours or ZK’s downtown LA friends didn’t relish, Scheer? See http://www.truthdig.com/20070730_the_last_days_of_democracy/ .....”

I see that “The Last Days of Democracy” page is back now with a new address - but my posting about “Bravery” has been removed. Why???

That proves that it really was something I said that was being censored. So much for you version of FREEDOM OF THE PRESS gone sour, Scheer!!! http://www.truthdig.com/interview/item/20070802_last_days_of_democracy/

Additionally, all of the comments from the alternative podcast page link have been removed. That is really sleazy!!! Put them back, eh, Scheer…. http://www.truthdig.com/podcast/item/20070730_the_last _days_of_democracy/

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By John Borowski, August 3, 2007 at 2:33 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

To show how the ruthless right are really a covert dictatorship, I will tell you about an in your face insult to the Democratic Party and to the Kennedys. We have the father an ambassador to Great Britain who served his country honorably. The oldest son Joe a pilot volunteered to do a suicide mission to knock out a German super gun during World War 2 died in the attempt. Two more Kennedy brothers gave their life for their country by right wing assassins. (In my opinion) Senator Edward Kennedy (The last surviving brother) has served his country honorably for many years. Senator Kennedy, while attempting to board an airplane recently was denied passage because the right wing had him down as a terrorist. After it occurred, the right had a good laugh about it. These right wing moral cowards hide themselves and their children from serving in the wars. This way they are not used as canon fodder.

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