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Hillary Clinton Celebrates Kissinger While White House Repeats His Mistakes

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Posted on Sep 28, 2010

By Fred Branfman, AlterNet

(Page 3)

The $700 million in military aid voted by Congress "is apparently running at twice that of Chinese and Soviet military aid to North Vietnam," according to the New York Times on March 27, 1975. The CIA estimated that U.S. military aid of $1.7 billion to Thieu in 1974 was four times the $400 million it estimated the North Vietnamese received from the Soviet Union and China. All told, official figures show the U.S. spent $141 billion in Vietnam from 1961-‘75, compared with $7.5-$8 billion in Soviet and Chinese aid to North Vietnam during the same period (Congressional Record, May 14, 1975).


Sorley’s contention that the failure of the North Vietnamese 1972 offensive proved the Thieu army could stand on its own is particularly absurd. Sorley himself quotes General Creighton Abrams, the head of U.S. forces in South Vietnam, as saying "on this question of the B-52s and the tac air it’s very clear to me that this (the Thieu) government would now have fallen, and this country would now be gone, and we wouldn’t be meeting here today, if it hadn’t been for the (U.S.) B-52s and the tac air. There’s absolutely no question about it."


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During the 1972 offensive, the Times reported on May 3, 1972, that "the growing consensus among Americans here is that the South Vietnamese forces have proven unequal to the task of defending it." And on May 19, 1972, that "despite four years of Vietnamization, American and South Vietnamese military commanders here have relied less on the government’s ground troops to stem the current North Vietnamese offensive than on an instrument of massive bombing that only the Americans have — the B-52"; from Anloc on June 24, 1972, that "American advisers here say that the South Vietnamese helicopters are not flying because the crews have panicked under fire and suffer from low morale”; and on Oct. 7, 1972, that "both American and South Vietnamese forces in South Vietnam say that the B-52s played a major role in halting the North Vietnamese offensive last spring as government units were disintegrating."


Neil Sheehan reported in his biography of U.S. adviser John Paul Vann, who directed U.S. and Vietnamese military forces in Region III in the spring of 1972 that "Vann did not see the fallacy in his victory. He did not see that in having to assume total control at the moment of crisis, he had proved the Saigon regime had no will of its own to survive."


Conclusion: Repeating History


We all have a natural tendency to want to forget an unpleasant past. Even many of us whose lives were deeply affected by the Indochina war often prefer to put those years of anguish, divisiveness and anger behind us.


Unfortunately, it is not that simple. Those who cannot remember the past are indeed condemned to repeat it.


Future historians will marvel at how U.S. leaders so thoroughly failed to learn from their horrific mistakes and crimes in Indochina, and have instead repeated many of them today in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. It is clear to all but the most blind or brainwashed that the basic lesson of Indochina is that the United States cannot create democratic and stable governments out of corrupt, brutal, autocratic and unpopular warlords who can neither direct nor motivate their own people.


Secretary Clinton is not only insulting history and betraying her own past by giving a platform to Henry Kissinger to continue distorting history; she is betraying America today, foolishly perpetuating policies toward the Muslim world that can only end in even greater losses for the U.S.


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By samosamo, October 4, 2010 at 8:23 pm Link to this comment

****************


What a fool you are. Really show your lack of
knowledge and you still tout the clintons as
saviors of the u.s. which is sinking fast. Best
loved?  Sure if, you and your kind put them on a
pedestal.

No, you haven’t read the 2 books I suggested.
Even the one by Robert Scheer, editor of this
website. You know it will destroy or severely
cripple your barbie doll dream world of hillbilly
hillary(barbie) and slick willie(ken). Anyone
pouring the honey on these 2 as much as you do
is the same as talking to a used car sales person
who will sell you the cleanest, sweetest, looking
car you ever saw, the just isn’t and engine
attached.

Why are you so afraid to read Scheer’s and/or
Bacevich’s books. You really appear afraid of
losing your idols, right?

Well be the troll you are, but don’t mistake that
your insolence will change my mind about these
2 dastardly people.

By the way, and it is as easy as looking it up on
your wikipedia, bush head sr. signed the nafta
treaty but slick willie signed it into law after it
was radified.

Ever thought about teaching american history and
political science or going to work for fux news?

Report this

By johncp, October 4, 2010 at 7:33 pm Link to this comment

Listen to the adolescent trash coming out of the mouths of the typical Hillary/Bill Hater: “Hillbilly Hillary(?)”  What the hell is this?  This guy is breaking down mentally.  Bill Clinton “...traitor to the presidency?”  Why?  Is this why Clinton is the best loved politician in the world?  And, god forbid: “Hillary wants the presidency?”  Holy shit.  Everyone knows that Hillary is not entitled to the presidency, only authentic right wing idiots can have the office.  And her husband wants her to have it.  It’s hard to believe that people can descend to this level of immature rot.  If Hillary were to become president, that would consitute a dynasty?
Complete bullshit.  But even it made any sense, the fact that she isn’t the president means, by his own words, that there is no dynasty.  I “...must have benefitted while the ‘crook’ Bill Clinton was in office.”  Yeah, at the time, I was living in a $75 a month, cockroach infested apartment.  Finally, and incredibly, this buffoon tells me to read books, to inform myself, and among the things I’m sure to find out, is that Clinton signed NAFTA into law.  It’s a fact that this insanity still persists among Clinton-haters.  Papa Bush signed NAFTA into law, Samosamo.  You call the Clinton tenure, the “Clinton crime family?”  Show me how this crime family, is more a crime family than virtually any other presidency in modern times?  You’re a shame Samosamo, the only reason you throw hateful crap at the Clinton’s is because like all Clinton haters, it’s easy to defile them, it’s the cheapest shot you can aim at politicians.  You know that there are soft-headed fools out there that will eat up this garbage, and you can’t wait to call Bill and Hillary names, even though 95% of what you say about them is pure bullshit.

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By garth, October 4, 2010 at 12:56 pm Link to this comment

That’s why the (I hate to call them Right-Wing) Neanderthals will win and they will take over this country and they will impose Corporate rule and they will ....... I ran out of gas.


It’s like the rally at the Lincoln Monument.  If I hear one more washed out, black personality say Justice and freedom, I will puke.

Why don’t they just say, Platitude 1, Platitude 2, Platitude 3.

Now there you go!

It’s all over.  Run for your lives.  Emigrate! Move to a gated community.

War is the name of the game.  Fascism will throw off the idea of a strong leader and the Democratic party contingent will cave in as they did under the Fascist I.

The nice General Pallid Detritus threatened the Pakistanis.  We are now at war in Irag and Afghanistan.

We undoubtedly sponsored the unrest in Ecuador.  We else to go?  I know.

Someone whisper in their ear about Goldilicks.  Maybe they’ll all go together when they go.

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By samosamo, October 4, 2010 at 11:54 am Link to this comment

****************


Trouble is hillbilly hillary wants the presidency.
For whatever reason hillbilly hillary wants it, just
as the absolute traitor to the office of president,
slick willie, wants her to have it. That will
constitute a presidential family dynasty just like
the bush dynasty(probably your relations). And I
KNOW hillbilly hillary will not be any different
than the presidents since, well I will just go back
as far as lbj, but quite possibly woodie the
woodpecker wilson who for allowing to become
president signed into law the treasonous federal
reserve act of 1913, quite possible the major
starting point of the financial terrorist attack on
this country.

johnny, you must have really benefitted while the
crook slick willie was in office. What, did you
decide to move your business off shore for
cheaper labor because your ‘best friend’ was in
office and signed NAFTA into law? Or did you
benefit by slick willie signing the FCC act that did
a hammer blow to what was left of any objective
journalism? But I KNOW you had to have
benefitted when slick willie finally tore down the
last bit of regulatory measures that the Glass-
Steagall act was about to prevent another ‘great
depression’ which must be a time you yearn for
its return which is why you are so exuberant
about the clinton crime family. Just those 3
actions makes me hope another goddamn clinton
will NOT get in office. But if that happens see me
3 years from that beginning and tell me how
great these miscreants really are for the people of
this country.

Of course, and I assume here, that you have read
Robert Scheer’s latest book ‘The Great American
Stickup’ and Andrew Bacevich’s ‘Washington
Rules’ so that you are up to date with the latest
goings on in Washington. And because of just
those 2 books are really beginning to rethink
clinton and your other favorite family the bushes,
not a millionth of a billionth of a difference in
either family.

People like you jcp are the reason the whole u.s.
is crashing as you ain’t the foggiest idea of what
is going on the upside and absolutely nothing on
the underside. Enjoy your dose of msm fertilizer
tonight while looking for you favorite celebrity
politicians.

Report this

By vicente carranza, October 4, 2010 at 4:31 am Link to this comment

The world, especially the United States are full of johncp’s.  They are very smart and the rest of us poor shits don’t know nothing.  If they are so smart why is the United States in the state that is in?  Beside what are they doing posting in a website with low class that don’t know nothing like us?  Just wondering.

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, October 3, 2010 at 11:09 pm Link to this comment

Hey, I admired Bill as a president and all…. but these guys have to fulfill their office in face of the reality of the FED Reserve and how the empire has destroyed so many things… so they are doing a job of dealing with concern, with hysteria, with their conscience and with the truth of the matter… and you’ll always have some critic… so they can’t make everyone happy… and factually, they are susceptible to be in collusion with one another… it is almost inescapable with lobby and ‘the way things are’ in the ‘halls of justice.’

I say all incumbents OUT… any political ‘careers’ should last as long as that particular office allows ( no career or rising star politicos allowed ).

Maybe something like a six or ten year max on ‘careers’ for these hired hands…. we need representatives in office, not puppets and professional politicians… presidential hopefuls have a six to ten year run-up ( similar to Obama ) and if they can’t get ‘launched’ and ‘sold’ on mass approval by year two… forget about it!

No more lackeys… and they are ALL lackeys… for no matter who is in office ( left or right, dem or rep ) it is still a dog and pony show and we are all the donkeys outside in the heat harassed by flies.

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By johncp, October 3, 2010 at 10:55 pm Link to this comment

Two comments, from Samosamo & Geza Edar,  both ridiculous.  Calling you closet republicans is on the mark whether you are republicans or nominally democrats.  Who said it was my final argument.  Vastly more likely, is your desperate effort to make the Clinton’s out to be evil, as your final argument.  Again, I repeat, Hillary had so large a lead against all the other dems during the 2008 campaign, that Obama joined with Edwards in an media effort to stop her.  Clearly, you can’t make the case that the American people rejected her; in fact, on the evidence they overwhelmingly favored her.  You can’t make the argument that the “real” Hillary was unknown to the voting public, since her life and political career were scrutinized with a fine tooth comb, leading a few psychotic members of your team, left with nothing with which to attack her, to accuse her of murder and other delusional crap.  Your buddies among the economic elite convinced that Hillary would have blown Obama and the other dopes running against her away, targeted her in every conceivable way, network media, not the least of them; in fact, listen and watch: they’re still at it.  The imbeciles are still holding Bill Clinton responsible for NAFTA, even though they know that old Bush signed it into law.  Then, of course, you have such heavyweight arguments as, calling Clinton a liar, or a “triangulator,” and other despicably stupid trash to conceal the fact that Clinton remains the most popular living politican on earth. 

Samsoma, you’re truly a joke.  Family name, dynasties?  Where do you get this bullshit.  How is being a president once, make you a dynasty?  Is this the extent of your “final” argument against the Clinton’s?  Samsoma, your political insights are as lame as your cowardly and baseless attacks on the Clinton’s.  In fact, my actual support for Bill & Hillary is moderate, based on the reality that, it’s only that I knew beyond any doubt that when Clinton ran, and when Hillary ran, both of them were, so obviously, the best choice we had, that only pie-in-the-sky Nader types, right wing republicans, etc. voted against them.

Report this

By samosamo, October 3, 2010 at 8:22 am Link to this comment

****************


Disturbing how some people support and
demand that ‘family name] political dynasties are
the way to go not to matter how much any of
them are part of the current crises. There IS the
obviousness of their not being much of any
difference in the 2 parties so in essence the 2
parties could be termed as family political
dynasties, all a bunch of criminal type creeps
doing everything to obtain personal, political,
financial gains.

Absolutely the understood rule that once
obtaining such gains, that puts them ABOVE THE
LAW and NO ACCOUNTABILITY.

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By Géza Éder, October 3, 2010 at 3:22 am Link to this comment

johncp: ahh, accusing people of being “closet republicans” is your final argument?  You’re ridiculous :-D

Report this

By johncp, October 3, 2010 at 1:49 am Link to this comment

The republican plan against Bill and Hillary.  Non-stop insults and moronic and vicious attacks.  Never relent.  The republicans know that Bill and Hillary Clinton are more liked than all the republican leaders put together.  No, they’ll never stop the insults, they can’t.  It’s all they have.  How pathetically desperate you all are.

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Napolean DoneHisPart's avatar

By Napolean DoneHisPart, October 2, 2010 at 8:10 pm Link to this comment

The crimes of the Amerikan Empire our coming out… where is TG’s Truth Dig on the latest crimes of this empire with the human testing in that south amerikan country?

Hilarious Hillary was supposedly all broken up about it.. ohh.

Report this

By samosamo, October 2, 2010 at 11:54 am Link to this comment

****************


Andrew Bacevich’s ‘Washington Rules’ explains
much of what the vietnam war was and how it
was sort of ‘dissed’ to make way for the new
‘revolution in military affairs’, RMA. And this is
what happens when america it given to taking an
izreali plant, like kissinger,(I realize kissinger was
born in germany) as an official participant and
director of our… no that would be ‘new’ american
government.

But even this ‘new’ RMA is already showing it
being just another euphemistic term for ‘flexible
response’, a quaint and endearing term that
denotes a sort of permissive reason for the
invasion of sovereign countries.

As for hill billy hillary and slick willie her
husband, they are more than willing participants
in the new RMA as their profiting clearly
indicates, just as with the bush crime family. But
remember that when their names appear on any
ballot.

Report this

By johncp, October 2, 2010 at 3:58 am Link to this comment

Bogglesthemind.  Another closet republican, who believes he knows Hillary on the basis of the propagandistic shit that republican media have fed him, is the “truth,” about her, when in reality he eats republican shit because he hates her, pretending he has “reason” to hate her.  You’re a fool Bogglesthemind. 

And as for you Geza, did you read what I wrote, that Hillary’s political and personal past has be scrutinized for 35 years, yet you pretend that your cheap attacks on her are based on some kind of profound insight gained “somewhere.”  You’re either another closet republican, afraid and ashamed to come clean about your brainless republicanism, or you should leave the dem party, you’re a disgrace to the them.

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By Stephen Denney, October 1, 2010 at 5:43 pm Link to this comment

As Branfman notes, this was a conference organized by the Office of the Historian of the U.S. Department of State. Henry Kissinger was Secretary of State during the time frame discussed at the conference. It seems appropriate under these circumstances that Kissinger would address the conference. Members of the audience could certainly challenge him, and some did.

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bogglesthemind's avatar

By bogglesthemind, October 1, 2010 at 11:45 am Link to this comment

“Hillary Clinton Celebrates Kissinger While White House Repeats His
Mistakes”

Slime seeks it’s own level.

———————————
Is it not time to rise up against willful stupidity?

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By Géza Éder, October 1, 2010 at 9:53 am Link to this comment

johncp: “Geza Edar, you may not think that Hillary’s staggeringly immense popularity is reason enough to respect her, but, it would be difficult to find anyone whose life has been as paranoically examined as her’s, and examined for over 35 years.”

What the hell are you talking about?  One of the basic ideas behind “liberal democracies” is that the “public image” of politicians is something completely different and detached from who they are in real life.  Loads of people, from Bush to Bernanke to Madoff were respected for a long time (and some of them are still respected by loads of people).  Jesus.

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By Géza Éder, October 1, 2010 at 9:40 am Link to this comment

“Well, here’s the friggin’ answer: we are resilient.  Like the cheap, Timex watch, we take a licking and keep on ticking.”

Sorry, but what the hell are you talking about?  America has never ever faced a crisis even remotely comparable to any European country, not even mentioning the rest of the world.  I’m not saying “America isn’t resilient”, but we sure as hell don’t know that yet :-D I’m Hungarian, our country was occupied by the Turks for 150 years, by Austria for a couple hundred more and by the Soviets for another 40 years - and despite this, we’re about the luckiest Eastern European country - when have Americans ever faced stuff like that?  Resilient?  You’re the richest country on Earth ffs, how would you know anything about that? :-D

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By Albert_77, October 1, 2010 at 12:08 am Link to this comment

Branfman is right to harshly criticize Hillary Clinton for supporting the corrupt, undemocratic, and fundamentalist Karzai regime in Afghanistan and giving the war criminals Kissinger and Holbrooke a platform.  However, apart from this criticism of Hillary, his analysis and conclusions appear to reflect views that remain well within a liberal imperialist discourse that doesn’t question the legitimacy of the Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan/Pakistan wars on legal and moral grounds.  For instance, Branfman doesn’t say that he opposes the war in Afghanistan/Pakistan on principle, nor does he call for an immediate withdrawal of the U.S./NATO foreign occupiers from Afghanistan.  Instead, he argues that we must learn from the “mistakes” that caused the U.S. to lose the “good war” in Vietnam so that the U.S. doesn’t lose the “good war” in Afghanistan/Pakistan. 
 
Despite his presentation of facts which clearly demonstrate that the U.S. perpetrated massive war crimes in Indochina during the Vietnam War, he seems to overlook the fact that the war itself constituted aggression, a crime against peace (i.e., “the supreme international crime” for which the Nazis were prosecuted at Nuremberg), which enables and is often accompanied by war crimes and crimes against humanity—“free-fire zones”, carpet bombings, My Lai and other willful mass killings of defenseless civilians, the use of Agent Orange, etc.  In other words, the enormous death toll and other horrific crimes carried out by the U.S. in Indochina would never have happened if the U.S. had not invaded South Vietnam and started an illegitimate, illegal, and immoral war of aggression in the first place (and the same is true for the U.S. imperial wars of aggression in Iraq and Afghanistan/Pakistan).  But Branfman fails to mention this crucial point, most likely because he believes Vietnam was a “good war,” which only went horribly wrong because of Kissinger’s “miscalculations” and “mistakes” that caused the U.S. to “lose Indochina.” 

This is actually the standard view put forward in liberal critiques of the Vietnam War and the ongoing U.S. invasion-occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan: Vietnam was supposedly a “good war” but was conducted poorly, Iraq was a “strategic blunder” but an immediate and total withdrawal of U.S. troops and contractors would be disastrous (according to the Dems), and Af-Pak is allegedly another “good war” that we cannot afford to lose—so let’s make sure we don’t make the kind of “mistakes” that we did in Vietnam.  Branfman even seems to lament that the U.S. “lost Indochina.”  Why?  Shouldn’t we celebrate the fact that the Vietnamese courageously fought and successfully liberated themselves, first from French colonialism and then from U.S. imperial domination?  Wasn’t it good that the U.S. lost the fundamentally immoral war in Vietnam?  Just as we celebrate the fall of Berlin and the victory of the Allies and the resistance (anarchist and communist) over the Nazi occupiers of Europe, we should also celebrate the fall of Saigon and the victory of the Vietnamese people over the United States war machine.

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By Albert_77, October 1, 2010 at 12:04 am Link to this comment

Unlike the Nazis, however, the U.S. was never held accountable for its war of aggression, war crimes, and crimes against humanity in Vietnam.  As the unrivaled global superpower, the U.S. is able to exempt itself from international law and from being prosecuted for war crimes despite being a signatory of binding treaties such as the Geneva Conventions and the UN Charter.  So it’s no wonder that the U.S. continues to carry out aggression and war crimes on a daily basis in Iraq and Afghanistan/Pakistan.  The warmongers Kissinger and Obama are even rewarded with Nobel Peace Prizes.  Wars of aggression and the horrific atrocities that often follow as a consequence are neither “mistakes” nor “strategic blunders,” they are crimes against the peace and war crimes.  Until the belligerent powers (namely the U.S. and Israel) which carry out these crimes are held accountable under international law or social movements are able to achieve revolutionary structural change within these countries, we can only expect more of the same barbaric criminal behavior to continue.

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By vicente carranza, September 30, 2010 at 6:16 pm Link to this comment

Johncp like the tea party people believe what they say and no one will ever change his mind.  What is that saying, ‘Don’t confuse me with the facts my mind is made up.’  About 90% of the people in the United States in the 21st Century know that they are right and everybody else is wrong.  And the sad part is that regardless of what the truth shows you will never ever change their mind.And the worse one are the liberal Democrats.

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By johncp, September 30, 2010 at 4:23 pm Link to this comment

I’m frankly amazed that I hear the same old shit about Bill & Hillary for the thousandth time.  I hear the “...Hillary is showering warmonger Kissinger.”  Untrue.  Hillary despised Kissinger early on, and, make no mistake about it, dispises him even more today.  “Hillary loooovves war(?)”  One of the most strikingly absurd notions imaginable.  I’ve been a Hillary supporter for years, and have followed her career carefully.  The only explanation I can imagine from this nonsense, is that you take the statements of politicicans with blind literalness.  What possible meaning can you attach to the idea that “Hillary was once a Goldwater gir(?)”  She was, politically a child at the time.  And what sense does it make to call Bill a “corporate stooge?”  Do you people still imagine that you can rise to the presidency without being a corporate stooge?  Argue the point all you like, it’s moronic to pretend that Clinton is unique in this regard, simply because you’re so anxious to put him down.  MGDR, is not content to leave another poster’s less than flattering view of Hillary to stand, but must add that she’s a “pathological liar,” and an “obsessively driven triangulator,” whatever the hell that is, though it sounds like a deliberately extreme attack on a politician for exhibiting things that, for the thousandth time, are shared by nearly all politicians, and certainly by those that reach the top, as Hillary has done, many times.  The “triangulator” bullshit is just an insult that has stuck to Clinton for absolutely no reason other than a near pathological hunger that you republicans have, to try to diminish, arguably, the most popular political couple in this country’s history.  Geza Edar, you may not think that Hillary’s staggeringly immense popularity is reason enough to respect her, but, it would be difficult to find anyone whose life has been as paranoically examined as her’s, and examined for over 35 years.  By the way, I still feel the need to inform you that Hillary almost certainly won the election, insofar as the popular vote is concerned.  Aside from the fact that I have no respect for Obama’s narrow “delegate” victory, considering how purchaseable most delegates are these days, she actually succeeded in arguably winning a people’s election, in the face of an unprecedented corporate and media attack on her, the in-your-face and inescapable meaning of which continues to escape most of you: namely, for all her faults and failings, she was, easily the best candidate “we were told,” was offered up to us.  In fact, the owners of our country were never going to make Hillary available to us, even if she had a 25 point lead.  And Edar, you make too much of the difference betweeen us, “the good people,” and them, the “politicians.”  They’re essentially no different than the rest of us.  There are the same proportion of cowards, liars, money-hungry fools, and psychopaths like Kissinger, among the “people,” as there are among politicians.  People love Hillary and Bill, in spite of their faults, because of the inspiring and positive qualities they know they have, in abundance.  Most of the voters that support them, know about their failings, just as they know about their own failings, but Bill and Hillary are the most famous and beloved people in the world precisely because most people don’t “define” them by their failings; they define them by their good points, and whether you republicans like it or not, Hillary and Bill are champions.  This is why the most insane and depraved among your clan have been accusing Hillary and Bill, of murder and drug running, etc.  You know that you must desperately try to debase them enough to overcome the high regard felt for them by the voters…and you’re still at it.  Pathetic.

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By psickmind fraud, September 30, 2010 at 12:28 pm Link to this comment

Johncp, some people are bright enough and informed enough to shun both of the political parties.  Neither is going to do anything for the masses, except as a by-product of catering to the uber wealthy.  Both Dems and Repubs are owned by contributors, and I doubt you have enough money to elicit more than a mouse fart from your Senator.

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By Steve E, September 30, 2010 at 11:52 am Link to this comment

I think most intelligent people have got Hillary and Bubba figured out and know
that they will do anything to be able to move back into the White House. Which
brings to my mind the movie “Satyricon” by Frederico Fellini where “Eumolpo” an
aristocrat dies leaving as his heirs all those willing to eat his corpse. Kissinger of
course is still breathing but in this day and age it’s best to think ahead. By the way
is this “war crimes celebration” taxpayer funded? I still predict Barry will walk after
his first term and allow Hillary to pick up the torch for the “good” of the nation. I
believe this deal was made when Hillary capitulated her presidential campaign
after all those secret meetings with Obama just before she bowed out. God help
us all.

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By garth, September 30, 2010 at 11:24 am Link to this comment

I remember hearing one of Kissinger’s professor’s from Germany about 40 years ago tell how Kissinger was just a so-so student, yet we embraced him as a genius.

One of the women he was involved with later disclosed that he was the most flaccid man she’d ever seen naked.

Murray the K.  Henry the K. What’s the diff. 

Here’s the diff.  We went to war and killed millions of Vietnamese and in the process 50,000 American, because this fat faced, bipolar depressive, asshole.

C-SPAN had a call-in show yesterday about the good things of America.

Well, here’s the friggin’ answer: we are resilient.  Like the cheap, Timex watch, we take a licking and keep on ticking.

You can kill our President.  Drive us into war in Vietnam.  Attack the WTC and the Pentagon.  Send more to their deaths in Iraq and afghanistan, rob them of their retirement and we keep on believing.

Will someone ............... Oh forget it!

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By Géza Éder, September 30, 2010 at 9:58 am Link to this comment

Also, inside details?  If you associate with Kissinger, no “inside details” are needed.  And if we ever get “inside details”...well, they’re not going to be positive, because whatever’s kept in secret in politics is usually kept in secret with a good reason.  Just like it happened with Kissinger, btw - the more information surfaced about him and his actions, the more obvious his character became.

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By Géza Éder, September 30, 2010 at 9:29 am Link to this comment

You might not be aware, johncp, of the fact that evil, fucked up people can be popular hmmm I’d also like to add to this that the current PR-based way of selecting political leaders actually facilitates this.  It’s not just, as vicente carranza correctly says, that power corrupts.  It’s more about the kind of people who perform well (and are actually able to perform) in this system that’s basically all about appearances and not reality.  I think you have to be pretty special to be able to handle this shit, whether it’s being a high level manager in a multinational or a high level politician basically anywhere.  It’s not just that power corrupts - it’s also about fucked up sick people wanting power more than normal people.

I think these systems (political and economic) actually both select for sociopathy, so you’ll have more and more sociopaths as you go higher and higher.  I can accept that most people would “follow orders” in a system that’s built on obedience and subservience; but I don’t believe that most people would become evil fucks like Kissinger or the rest of these bandits.  I don’t believe most people find joy in the same shit that these people do and so on.  I think these systems select and bring the evil shits to the top.

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By johncp, September 30, 2010 at 1:12 am Link to this comment

Wow!  Without knowing the inside details, all the Hillary and Bill haters are thrilled to the bone at this opportunity to throw more rocks and deliver more hate filled rot to the Clinton name.  That this is all posturing; that it’s all done at the pleasure of the Obama presidency, escapes the Hillary haters.  What a bunch of pathetic, hysterical jerks you all are.
Once more, it needs to be pointed out to this embittered, frustrated crowd of losers, that Hillary commands admiration from a majority of American voters, and maintained a 25 point lead during almost the entirety of her campaign against Obama, that is, until nearly all the major oil giants and other corporate forces turned against her, and almost the full force of network TV stations worked equally furiously to stop her.  If corporate and media forces were so clearly against her and her candidacy, and the “people” maintained a 25 point preference for her over all other democrat candidates, do you suspect that these corporate and media forces felt that Obama would be vastly better than Hillary, in supporting their interests?  How stupid can you people get?  Clearly, you either are all republican Hillary haters, or are the dumbest bunch of faux democrats that still dare show your brainlessness.  Now, in retrospect, tell me the name of a single democrat that ran during the last presidential campaign, including Obama, that had any chance of winning a national campaign, that was superior to Hillary.

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By mdgr, September 29, 2010 at 3:22 pm Link to this comment

Love MeHere’s phrase, September 29 at 11:08 am, referring to “the Clinton woman.”

She is a bit more than all that, however. She’s also a pathological liar and obsessively-driven triangulator, just the sort of person that Obama would want as Secretary of State.

She’s screwed the pooch in virtually every one of America’s foreign policy initiative, ranging from Pakistan to Israel.

In this, she’s even less competent that Kissinger, but they’re definitely made of the same toxic cloth.

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moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, September 29, 2010 at 3:17 pm Link to this comment

Hillary in a past lifetime clearly posed for one of the War Whores in Goya’s masterpiece graphic series, The Disasters of War.

That was before she put on the drag do of polyester pantsuits and pop beads.

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By Belle, September 29, 2010 at 12:26 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Why not celebrate war criminals. Obama, Bush, Kissinger, Hillary, they’re all war criminals. The irony in America is, the majority of people who are in prison - drug addicts, the mentally ill etc - should be free, getting help from the state, and the most celebrated politicians and foreign policy advisors should be in jail.

What a world we live in.

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By Dr. O. P. Sudrania, September 29, 2010 at 11:39 am Link to this comment

Somehow never liked Kissinger. He is too rude to be a diplomat of a world power state. Unfortunate. Af/Pak is going to be another disaster. Wait and see. Not because of wrong war but because of wrong policy and wrong turf to fight from. Who to blame between US & Pakistan is difficult but they r both decieving each other to their mutual peril.
God bless
Dr. O. P. Sudrania

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By berniem, September 29, 2010 at 10:59 am Link to this comment

Cannot Obama see why there is such a disconnect with the Progressive movement?

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By NYCartist, September 29, 2010 at 9:11 am Link to this comment

Americana:using word “mistakes” instead of “crimes”

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By psickmind fraud, September 29, 2010 at 8:25 am Link to this comment

I’m sure it’s just coincidence that Clinton, Kissinger, and Holbrooke are all Bilderbergers, aren’t you?

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By garth, September 29, 2010 at 7:27 am Link to this comment

Tom ‘Bomb Iran’ Friedman had an illustrative ar-trick-le in the NY Times today (Sep 29)

He urges a leader to step forward and recognize our ‘core competencies’ and take hold of the energy that is being assigned to the Tea Party.

He wants a Strong Man, a proto-fascist idea, to step forward and say something like, “This is what we’re good at.  Let’s do that!”


He mentions entrepreneurship and making use of ideas.  (I hear technology, engineers, technician and marketing.)  Cheney heard the call of eBay.

Friedman was on Al Franken’s radio show about five years ago pushing his book, “The World is Flat” and he related a story of his trip to India where a number of high tech jobs had recently re-located.

He noted that in the computer rooms, on the wall, he saw Carrier Air Conditioners.  He was implying that we sell them AC and they return the favor by taking our high tech jobs.

The only problem with that picture was that on the same day of his appearance on the Al Franken show, Carrier announced that it was moving its manufacturing from Indiana to Mexico.  So much for that.

I guess, Tom wants a return to the idea of an Imperial Presidency a la Richard M. Nixon.  Let’s face it, George W. nor Barack Obama does not come across as a Stong Man.

The focus in America of ‘You are what you do.’ will take on its full meaning.

For all others, another train is coming shortly so just sit and wait.

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By MeHere, September 29, 2010 at 7:08 am Link to this comment

The Clinton woman is a special character in politics. She has managed to survive
within the elite political group by means of a set of very consistent skills. She
hasn’t done anything truly memorable domestically or supported peaceful and
intelligent foreign policy. Yet, voters generally view her as a positive politician. She talks about nothing but exudes trust and hope. Hillary may be the only product made in the US nowadays that has true longevity, like those good old refrigerators.

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By bogi666, September 29, 2010 at 5:45 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Henry Kissinger,the USG INSULT TO THE UNIVERSE.Also, their was never a country of South Vietnam, it was an imaginary concocted entity.  There is a southern Vietnam. As for HillBillary she’ll just do what and why all former Secretary’s of State do, start a consultancy business which is facilitated while in office, they travel around the world making political and business contacts.Kissinger is despicable beyond words and his criminal achievements are rewarded, his peace award which he shared with his Vietnam counterpart who had dignity and integrity refused the award while Kissinger embraced it.This is a clue about which society has integrity and functions with dignity and it’s not the USG.

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By vicente carranza, September 29, 2010 at 5:29 am Link to this comment

My dear friends, after being an activists for 41 years I can say that nothing will ever change. IT CAN NOT. Regardless of which political party and/or person is in office they have to do the same thing in order for the United States to survive as it is and/or as we know it today.  In today’s reality the person does not make the office the office makes the person.  What you see is what you will get. As long as the people don’t see and admit it that the corporations and the rich own you total ass.  The only freedom of you have is as a consumer. You have the choose of buying a Coke or a beer.  Blue towels or red towels.  A Ford or a Chevy.  No one, not ever, do you have anything to say that will make a difference the way things are.  So live with it and stop wasting your time worrying about all the wrongs we have.  If you want to do something that matters start thinking outside of the box.  And believe in complete change. Not of party or person but of our total reality.  The United States maybe at one time was great but now it has come and gone.  Lets start something new.

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By WomanAwake, September 29, 2010 at 5:24 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Why won’t people wake up???  Our political leaders are continuing down the same roads that led us to Vietnam, Iraq and the over-throw of governments because of MONEY AND POWER.  Not for us Americans but for themselves!  Our politicians are owned by Corporations so they will do and say what they are told to do and say BY CORPORATIONS!

This isn’t difficult to figure out here, guys.  Obama and the Democrats were voted into office to take over the Presidency, the House and the Senate, because Americans wanted a BIG change from the Reagan/Bush Republican years.  So tell me…what big changes that really mean something have been changed? 

A new Healthcare system?  Look again. All Obama and our Democrats did was made health insurance companies richer, with only very minor benefit to the American people. If Obama and our Democratically controlled Congress really wanted to make a change that would have benefited the American people, we would now have the Single-Payer plan, or the very least, the Public Option.  Right now, as I type this, part of the NEW Healthplan that was voted into law was that all children, whether they had previous existing conditions, would be granted healthcare.  Really?  Well, it so happens that Aetna, Blue Cross, Cigna and other health insurance companies are already dropping those kids from being insured.  Hmmm…what about the new law???

How about the Americans’ cry to end the war in Iraq?  Well, Obama SAYS he ended it.  Did he?  He removed thousands of troops at the end of August saying those that were left are merely to police.  Since when are combat-ready soldiers there to police?  And if we are still not at war, why were thousands more soldiers deployed to Iraq AFTER Obama ended the war?  Sounds to me like we are still at war in Iraq…doesn’t it sound the same to you, too?

Wars make lots of money for the Bankers, corporations and for our Congressional people, too.  So why would they want wars to stop?  They are the smart ones.  The stupid ones are the American kids and their parents that are sold (duped)that it is an honor to serve their country.  Yes, it would be an honor to serve one’s country if the war was a legitimate one that we didn’t start in the first place!

There is no honor in being sent to murder innocent people of another country because the corporations, bankers and politicians of our country want to steal the resources of another country and using our kids to do it. 

Parents…you need to wake up.  If you don’t, your child can become another statistic at the hands of our politicians.  Don’t send your babies off to die so that Bankers, Corporations and politicians can make more money.  All wars that we get involved in have been mostly started by us.  Let’s stop the madness and stop the wars.  If your kids don’t sign up…how can the Bankers, Corporations and politicians hold a war?  Do you think they will send their own kids?  You bet they won’t, and if they did, you can bet their kid will be kept nice and safe far away from any fighting.  The only wound they might receive would be a cut from shaving and you can also bet they would receive the Purple Heart for that cut just so they could self-aggrandize to show the public that they, too, send their kids off to war.

We have nothing but Psychotics and Sociopaths runnning our government, stop being their victim and wake up!

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By Billy Pilgrim, September 29, 2010 at 5:13 am Link to this comment

It’s like inviting Dr. Mengele to an AMA seminar.

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By Hammond Eggs, September 28, 2010 at 11:11 pm Link to this comment

Hillary Clinton, if I’m not mistaken, was originally a Goldwater girl.  She was never a progressive; neither was her corporate stooge of a husband.  When Obama does his swan dive down the electoral well, I wonder what she’ll do next.

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By glider, September 28, 2010 at 8:19 pm Link to this comment

Certainly, whether we could have “won” the war by throwing more money at it is irrelevant.  Yes, throw enough resources at a task and you can accomplish near anything.  Instead one should make a reasonable prediction of the expense and then ask whether the “win” is worth the expenditure.  Vietnam was not worth the expenditure as far as the American Public and the cause of the Human Progress was concerned.  However, it was a win for American War Profiteers who did not go away with the end of their Vietnam debacle and were instead Strengthened.  This is about the War Profiteers control of the U.S. government which more complete now than in the Vietnam era.

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By MeHere, September 28, 2010 at 7:23 pm Link to this comment

Excellent report by the writer. Government officials are all in the same club until
they pass away—the party they belong to is no obstacle.  Voters keep adding new
ones in each election, and Hillary is always eager to keep them together. What’s
wrong with having one big happy family?

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By Virginia from Virginia, September 28, 2010 at 6:35 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Hillary LOOOOVES war! She voted for the Attack on Iraq.  Don’t hand us that CR@P, Hillary, that you were bamboozled by faulty inteligence about Iraq’s WMDs.
You’re either a fraud or you’re too STOOPID.  Whichever, you and your wars are evil.

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Samson's avatar

By Samson, September 28, 2010 at 6:34 pm Link to this comment

Henry Kissenger gets invitations to headline a conference, while today’s peaceful activists get their doors kicked in by Obama’s FBI.

Tells you all you need to know about today’s Democrats.

Don’t vote Democrat.

Obama is kicking in the doors of peaceful activists.  If you are left of Reagan, if you oppose these wars, you can not vote Democrat right now.

A vote for the Democrats is a vote for Kissenger and his policies.  A vote for the Democrats will put blood on your hands.

Don’t vote Democrat.

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By Robespierre115, September 28, 2010 at 6:21 pm Link to this comment

Obama is keeping the Kissinger style alive in other parts of the world as well. Kissinger and Nixon orchestrated the overthrow of Salvador Allende in Chile and last year Obama in a very slick way supported a military coup in Honduras.

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By mdgr, September 28, 2010 at 5:54 pm Link to this comment

Hillary=Obama=Pelosi (who voted for all of Bush’s war budgets, etc.)=Gates=Summers=Geithner=WallStreet=Blackwater/Xe Services=Reid=Rahm Emanuel=Kissinger=some of the worst nightmares of Orwell. . . .

And once again, the game is to get us to choose between two evils. It’s that same tired line, and we fall for it time after time after time. Ultimately, it suggests that Obama/Biden not only despise their base for being angry, but are infinitely cynical about the stupidity of their base.

In firing Summers and Emanuel, Obama’s hoping to “rebrand” himself, selling us more of the 2008 Kool Aid and hoping we’ll drink once again. He is again presenting as a populist since he knows full-well that the R’s will made any liberal agenda impossible and that he’ll secretly still be serving Wall Street.

This is a man with no spine and even less principle. He has done a good job destroying the Democratic Party, however, and for that I give him credit.

I myself will be burning my ballot, preferably for television, if any media event actually gets going. I figure there are at least a million people who would also do that if such an event got organized.

I certainly will not be voting Dem ever again. I am hoping for the kind of monster third party of progressives/indies and disaffected Dems that Naomi Klein recently said that she too hoped would get going, but I am not holding my breath.

Still, I think it is a good thing that in 2010, the Democrats get absolutely crushed. Obama could veto the worst from the R’s, but a vigorous repudiation of what he and the Dems have done might, in the end, get something else off the ground. Maybe.

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By PatrickHenry, September 28, 2010 at 5:52 pm Link to this comment

Kissinger, a true war criminal.

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By Steve E, September 28, 2010 at 5:43 pm Link to this comment

Disgusting, Obama recently praises Bush, Bubba Clinton awards Tony Blair The
U.S. Peace Medal in Philly on Sept. 13/2010, now Hillary is showering warmonger
Kissinger. The world is so fucked.

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