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Hitch-22: A Memoir

Hitch-22: A Memoir

By Christopher Hitchens
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Posted on May 14, 2012
Illustration by Mr. Fish

By Chris Hedges

(Page 3)

The end of these regimes comes when old beliefs die and the organs of security, especially the police and military, abandon the elites and join the revolutionaries. This is true in every successful revolution. It does not matter how sophisticated the repressive apparatus. Once those who handle the tools of repression become demoralized, the security and surveillance state is impotent. Regimes, when they die, are like a great ocean liner sinking in minutes on the horizon. And no one, including the purported leaders of the opposition, can predict the moment of death. Revolutions have an innate, mysterious life force that defies comprehension. They are living entities.

The defection of the security apparatus is often done with little or no violence, as I witnessed in Eastern Europe in 1989 and as was also true in 1979 in Iran and in 1917 in Russia. At other times, when it has enough residual force to fight back, the dying regime triggers a violent clash as it did in the American Revolution when soldiers and officers in the British army, including George Washington, rebelled to raise the Continental Army. Violence also characterized the 1949 Chinese revolution led by Mao Zedong. But even revolutions that turn violent succeed, as Mao conceded, because they enjoy popular support and can mount widespread protests, strikes, agitation, revolutionary propaganda and acts of civil disobedience. The object is to try to get there without violence. Armed revolutions, despite what the history books often tell us, are tragic, ugly, frightening and sordid affairs. Those who storm Bastilles, as the Polish dissident Adam Michnik wrote, “unwittingly build new ones.” And once revolutions turn violent it becomes hard to speak of victors and losers.

A revolution has been unleashed across the globe. This revolution, a popular repudiation of the old order, is where we should direct all our energy and commitment.  If we do not topple the corporate elites the ecosystem will be destroyed and massive numbers of human beings along with it. The struggle will be long. There will be times when it will seem we are going nowhere. Victory is not inevitable. But this is our best and only hope. The response of the corporate state will ultimately determine the parameters and composition of rebellion. I pray we replicate the 1989 nonviolent revolutions that overthrew the communist regimes in Eastern Europe. But this is not in my hands or yours. Go ahead and vote this November. But don’t waste any more time or energy on the presidential election than it takes to get to your polling station and pull a lever for a third-party candidate—just enough to register your obstruction and defiance—and then get back out onto the street. That is where the question of real power is being decided.

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By Korky Day, May 22, 2012 at 4:17 pm Link to this comment

Contrary to “robespierre”, http://www.wikihow.com/Use-Quotation-Marks-Correctly does NOT condone quotation marks for paraphrasing.  I could find no reference there at all to paraphrasing or putting an idea into your own words.

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By americanme, May 22, 2012 at 2:24 pm Link to this comment

Robes, ole boy:  Not only are you a liar, but you are infantile.

Quote marks mean you are exactly QUOTING—that’s why they are called quote marks!

Duh and double duh.

You did NOT have anything substantive to say about the Churchill article—all you did was question his ethnicity—same childish crap you pull on everyone here who disagrees with the pap that you post here.

It’s YOU who clearly have zero academic credentials, are NOT an academic and whose acquaintance with the MLA Style Sheet is non-existent.

You are, in short, a half-baked, half-educated two bit racist.  And your tantrums have NOT contributed to this thread or to any other.

To put it in more colorful terms:  You are a mosquito trying to convince everybody you are a gorilla.

Buzz off.

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By Art, May 22, 2012 at 1:50 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I agree with almost everything Chris Hedges says, but the unspoken assumption that a revolution would necessarily result in a taking-over of the State currently colonized by corporations seems short-sighted. As the institutions and values that engine capitalist modernity collapse due to their own unsustainable logics and contradictions, the benevolent path to a future of true democracy will most likely not involve nations or states, but geographically-loose and -overlapping communities of like-minded, values-sharing people making alliances when beneficial with other such communities. The path forward to true democracy will surely leave the nation-state—the exemplification of modern, centralized population control—in the dustbin of history.

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By robespierre, May 22, 2012 at 1:41 pm Link to this comment

It’s true, people on here can pretend to be anyone they want. You are clearly pretending that you are a “professional editor.” See, I am quoting something you said just as I quoted somethings AmericanMe said. Here is a link that can teach you about various ways quotation marks can be used: http://www.wikihow.com/Use-Quotation-Marks-Correctly

The substantive topic or topic of interest concerned AmericanMe’s referencing a Churchill piece as a possible scenario for Indians determining their own destiny. I agreed in substance with the proposal but noted that Churchill made some glaring errors in his claims. AmericanMe chose to respond using a variety of logical fallacies.

If she or anyone would like to take up the thread, whoever they claim to be, then they can go for it.

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By Korky Day, May 21, 2012 at 5:20 pm Link to this comment

Hey, everybody, it’s a complete waste of time to discuss here whether anyone is who they say they are.

Discuss topics of interest, instead, please!

And robespierre, quotation marks indicate an exact quote, as distinct from paraphrasing.  (I’m a professional editor, but I can never prove it to anyone in this type of discussion.)

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By robespierre, May 21, 2012 at 4:02 pm Link to this comment

americanme

i put quotation marks to indicate that i was paraphrasing your words. frankly, i think you’re liar. you certainly seem to no nothing about punctuation and usage. also, i raised substantive positions regarding the fundamental weaknesses in churhill’s article. instead of addressing those you claim that you have academic experiences and titles and, apparently, that allows you to not respond to my arguments. that is the red herring fallacy. similarly by claiming my “whiteness” prejudices me against churchill you introduce an ad hominem attack. these are classic tactics of sophists and most definitely not the work of someone claiming academic standards.

i don’t know what you are, but you are not, apparently, anyone with any real academic background.

at some point this thread was about hedges’ article. your infantile diatribes have led it into the ditch.

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By Korky Day, May 21, 2012 at 9:29 am Link to this comment

Ed Romano, are you still alive and reading?
I hope so because I’m suggesting for the 3rd time that you state how long it will take before the USA will be relieved morally from reparations to Vietnam.
I just want to know so that we can compare that fair period to other wars of aggression by the USA and by other countries.

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By americanme, May 20, 2012 at 11:28 am Link to this comment

Robespierre:

Your true colors are sure coming out on this thread:  YOU ARE A LIAR and a sourgrapes poor loser:

1.  At no pint did I write “I have titles, I know”. I indicated my history as a professional academic and indicated that Ward Churchill met MY standards for academic writing.  I did point out that I am more qualified to judge academic writing than you are.

(I only taught it off and on for 40 years!)

2.  I also did not write “You’re white so you resent Churchill’s being Indian”.  he doesn’t meet your high academic standards, yet you flagrantly put quote marks around two statements that this poster NEVER made!!!????  I wrote “You just don’t like him because he is Native American”.

Your lumpen anti-intellectualism really gleams in your last foolish comment.

We are done here.  I despise cowards and liars and anti-intellectual gringos, and you are all three.

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By robespierre, May 20, 2012 at 5:55 am Link to this comment

I pointed out that Churchill makes glaring errors, and AmericanMe responds:

1. “I have titles, I know” and

2. “You’re white so you resent Churchil’s being Indian”

With arguments like this you really might be university administrator material or Glen Beck.

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By cholo, May 19, 2012 at 10:32 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Hey American Me

I been reading these comments. You’ve been a professor and a chair and a Dean. I guess it proves that I was right about my experience in university. They only promoted the lamebrains. Robespierre criticized Churchill for a very basic, obvious error: claiming that there was a unity defining Indians prior to being colonized. Instead of responding you just said you held a bunch of university positions. That’s idiotic. Oh, plus you said Robespierre doesn’t like Churchill cause Churchill’s Indian and R’s white. That’s also idiotic not just because it totally misses the point but because R’s not white.

Let me guess, you got all those positions online at Bullshit U. Anyway, claiming authority based on titles and not skills sounds pretty white to me.

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By americanme, May 19, 2012 at 9:55 am Link to this comment

And yet another loudmouthed defensive and offensive post by ole Robespierre, another one of the half-baked and half-educated posters on this site who believe that throwing enough words like spaghetti against the wall, some will stick.  They don’t.

As for Ward Churchill not being up to YOUR academic standards:  Well, I have been a professional academic since 1968—professor, department chair, dean, educational consultant to universities in in several countries—as well as a “lowly” language teacher and secondary school teacher—and he IS up to MY standards, which, clearly are significantly higher than yours. 

You just don’t like him because he’s a Native American who doesn’t kiss white ass and because he pegged USites as Little Eichmanns—the folks who are never responsible for jack shit that they do because they just follow orders.

Well, it should be patently clear to even YOU folks on this silly thread that your following orders didn’t put you on the Forbes list, did not make you free, and has in fact made you into cannon fodder—literally and/or economically.

Robespierre chose NOT to read Fanon and Not to watch the two Pontecorvo films available for streaming on NetFlix.  His loss.

News flash:  The Pentagon REQUIRES its officers to watch Battle of Algiers.  You should at LEAST be as informed as the folks you call your enemy.

But, no, you continue to shoot off your mouth in all directions and shoot yourself in the foot.

Hoist on your own petard should be an expression familiar to anyone using the nom de guerre of Robespierre.

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By Ed Romano, May 19, 2012 at 6:44 am Link to this comment

mrfreeze. Sorry. Tried twice. No dice. I’d need your e mail address I guess.

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By katsteevns, May 19, 2012 at 4:19 am Link to this comment

Ah, but it’s all changed
Winter turned on a man
Came down one day
When no one was looking
And it stole away the land

People running scared, losing hands
Dodging shadows of falling sand
Buildings standing like empty shells
And nobody, helping no one else

Young child with his hands high
Ain’t able to see no reason why, no
But he remembers how it used to be
      —-

Where’s it leading to
Freedom at what cost
People needing more and more
And it’s all getting lost

I want back, I want back
Back to the time
When the earth was green
There were no high walls
And the sea was clean
Don’t stop that sun to shine
It’s not yours or mine, no   -  Cat Stevens from RUINS

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By rosebud, May 18, 2012 at 4:47 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

A lot of people talking indigenous here…

Somebody mentioned Frank Fools Crow.

Here is Lame deer, also one of the Lakota elders:

“Listen I saw this in my mind not long ago: In my vision the electric light will stop sometime. It is used too much for TV and going to the moon. The day is coming when nature will stop the electricity. Police without flashlights, beer getting hot in the refrigerators, planes dropping from the sky, even the President can’t call somebody up on the phone. A young man will come, or men, who’ll know how to shut off all the electricity. It will be painful, like giving birth. Rapings in the dark, winos breaking into the liquor stores, a lot of destruction. People are being too smart, too clever; the machine stops and they are helpless, because they have forgotten how to make do without the machine. There is a Light Man coming, bringing a new light. It will happen before this century is over. The man who has this power will do good things too—stop all atomic power, stop wars, just by shutting the white electro-power off. I hope to see this, but then I’m also afraid. What will be will be.”

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By robespierre, May 18, 2012 at 3:04 pm Link to this comment

Ed: you write some stupid shit, so it’s not surprising that you can’t read. Look back at my posts. I clearly said that the proposal I made was from a revolutionary government. Just read, man. Earlier I also explained that you are not PERSONALLY responsible. But you are part of a nation-state that committed genocide. That nation-state continues, and all the people in it (except the victims) benefit from the act, including you. So, “we” are all responsible for addressing it.

AmericanMe my “claimed ethncity”? Uh, how about fuck off, to start with? Or do you want to go the route of talking about Ward Churchill’s “claimed ethnicity”? Notice how that gets no one anywhere. Wow—check yourself. You get away with this only because of the anonymity of the medium.

Oh, you’re for Perto Rican independence. How noble. You’re worse than the f’ing liberals. Spouting moralistic bullshit and then assuming you will tell everyone how it’s going to be. I mean, answer my question. Since I’m part “white” will you, the part Irish, indigenous freedom fighter who wants to let the indigenous have full say over their lands send me back? Answer. All the land was indigenous, obviously. So, everyone has to go, and it’s you who will say? Or a committee? Only of pure bloods? That leaves you out sister. back to Ireland. Let me guess, you will depopulate the entire Puerto Rican population because they’re not indigenous right? Check yourself. At least I use my pen name in irony.

Half-baked revolutionary? Look in the mirror. Ward Churchill’s document is up to its normally low academic standards. A unified Indianness today can be understood as rooted in opposition to centuries-long domination. But that stands as a dialectical negation of the west. Is western logic, what did you call it Ms. Racist, “white thinking,” raising its ugly little head here? Indigenous people (at least primitive indigenous—more on that below) were both rational and capable of thinking the multiple identities of things simultaneously. Churchill is trapped by European logic and law.

Despite Churchill and Batalla, there certainly is NO truth to the claim that there is a unified Indiannes in the pre-Colombian past. Egalitarianism and closeness to nature? Really? It must be a white conspiracy that Mayan Priest Kings, Inca overlords, and Aztec generals were part of a complex called “civilization” that created castes, dominated their neighbors and massively denuded the land. Strange how Indians from the Amazon (read Clastres, esp. “Society Against the State”) to present day California (read anyone from Kroeber forward) to the Ojibwa (read anyone, but you could start with Perlman) designed cultures to specifically prevent the very hierarchy and separation from the natural and social world that indigenous civilizations, like all civilizations (a word Churchill uses without any distinction) espoused. Are you seriously trying to tell me that Mayan civilization was “class-free?” Churchill is.

But let’s take him at his word that he is only talking about N America and not all of “Indianness” (the claim he makes earlier in the article notwithstanding). It seems that Churchill is making his stand on the grounds of Anglo-Saxon law and treaties. He only demands back what the government promised to Indians in the first place give or take some juggling of land to make the Buffalo Commons and other Indian lands contiguous. That’s a pretty extraordinary concession given that the treaties were made under duress.

But aside from his flagrant ideologically motivated abuse of anthropologcal fact, yes, I think he and I are on the same page. U.S. out of N America, by all means and out of Puerto Rico and the rest of the Caribbean too. But racist, intellectual phonies like AmericanMe nowhere near any sort of decision making.

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By Korky Day, May 18, 2012 at 11:53 am Link to this comment

USA President Franklin Roosevelt proclaimed the right to a job, but died before instituting it.  Presidential candidate Jill Stein of the Green Party is campaigning on a similar platform, promising 25 million jobs.  But if you won’t vote for her until the mainstream media says that she has a chance of winning, then you are surely a compliant prisoner waiting for your fellow prisoners to knock down the prison walls before you escape.

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By americanme, May 18, 2012 at 11:52 am Link to this comment

Ed:

Yes you ARE the enemy!

If it thinks like an enemy, talks like an enemy and makes hate like an enemy (apologies to Bob Dylan for that blatant rip-off), it’s an enemy—even if it breaks like a piece of Hasbro plastic.

Robespierre:  What does your claimed ethnicity have to do with your inability to refute that I caught you with your white-thinking pants down? 

The point of colonization, Robes, my boy, it to have the colonized think like the colonial power.  And it appears they succeeded with you, if you insist on telling indigenous folks what to do with the land that you MIGHT give back to them. 

You need to read Fanon’s “The Wretched of the Earth” and you need to watch Pontecorvo’s “The Battle of Algiers” and especially since you are Puerto Rican, “Burn!”  Your comment to me about telling the indigenous folks what to do with their RIGHTS to the land could have been yanked right out of the script of “Burn!”

This poster, after twenty years of living and working and creating in Latin America, knows a thing or two about the genocide instigated by ole Cristobal Colon against the Taino—and other native groups in the Caribbean—I even wrote a play for a Revolutionary Theater project for the people of Venezuela that dealt with the Spanish slaughtering several groups of Caribbean natives, among other atrocities.  And I am well aware of the mix of indigenous, african and spanish in the Caribbean basin countries.  I have advocated the independence of Puerto Rico for many years now. 

You decided to address ethnic mixes instead of facing the music for your lapse of consciousness.  That doesn’t make any points in this debate.

And yes, I know a thing or two about the French Revolution—especially since it was the Declaration of the Rights of Man that was the basis of Bolívar’s campaign to liberate South America.  If you are going to continue with your nombre de guerra, I suggest you read Georg Büchner’s Danton’s Death.  Büchner was a revolutionary playwright who can teach you something.

And as for your horse and buggy scheme for the landmass of Turtle island, why not buzz over to Znet and read Ward Churchill’s plan?  In an abbreviated version on Znet, it’s called “Why I Am Indigenist”—or something like that, maybe just “I Am Indigenist”.  Churchill has given his plan a bit more thought but if you are sincere in your vision, you’ll find it agreeable and worth thinking about.

Socrates left no writings to read, unfortunately, and we are left with Plato’s presentation of him (and some Foucaultian theories) but I read
plenty of Plato back in high school, and neo-platonism is no longer of much interest to me.  In fact, even then, I preferred Nietzsche.

Half-baked revolutionaries are worse than reactionaries!

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By americanme, May 18, 2012 at 11:21 am Link to this comment

gaelw:

You may have come a long way since those days when the Irish were forced to immigrate due to the Potato Famine (blame it on the Brits, who invented scalping in one of their campaigns against your Irish ancestors), but you still have not learned to read.

I have stated HOW MANY TIMES on this thread that I am talking about conditions on the Bantustans called native reserves and Indian reservations NOW?!

Or if you can read, you have deliberately chosen to deny my point, as it would mean getting off your ass and stopping the crimes against non-whites in the US and abroad as well as atoning for the crimes you are heeheeheeing about as they happen NOW.

I have ALSO STATE MANY TIMES ON THIS SITE THAT I AM NOT A MAN.  Missed that too, didya now, dearie?

Incidentally, I have a wee bit of Irish in my genetic helix, too—and the Irish person in question went to Canada as a result of the Potato Famine.

I am holding you accountable, Great Wall of Denial, for what is happening NOW as a result of your maintaining a genocidal and thieving government in power.

You, sir or madam, are guilty as hell.

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By Korky Day, May 18, 2012 at 10:35 am Link to this comment

Poor well-meaning semi-radical Ed Romano doesn’t realize he can’t win this debate.  “americanme” is just too good a writer—a master of insult, hyperbole, and wit.
She wrongly jumps to conclusions sometimes, but it is hilariously provocative!
The reader can’t help but cheer her on as the underdog.  Plus the unfair advantage that she has chosen the correct side of the argument!  Her students and we are lucky!

While it is true that we heirs of the invaders owe more reparations than we could pay in a century, perhaps the First Nations would accept a little less if we treated them with humility and fairness.  We’ll never know until we force our governments to try.
Ed would support that, it seems.

Ed Romano wrote, “I am not the enemy.”  I’m waiting for him to prove it by saying how long it will take before the USA will be relieved morally from reparations to Vietnam.

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By mrfreeze, May 18, 2012 at 10:23 am Link to this comment

Hi Ed - I emailed you back with instructions on how to send private messages via your dashboard. It’s fairly simple.

Cheers

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By Ed Romano, May 18, 2012 at 9:50 am Link to this comment

Mr. Freee, Don’t know how you were able to do what you did, but I was unable to reciprocate. Thanks. Maybe we can try again.  Ed Romano

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By katsteevns, May 18, 2012 at 8:53 am Link to this comment

“Just because I am benefiting from the harm done to people in the past doesn’t impart any responsibility upon me to make things right with their offspring. Sure, the harm can last for generations, but what is that to me? Screw the bastards! The land may have been theirs before, so what, it’s mine now! Their blood may have spilled upon the soil I tread, ask me if I care. I am an American, the rest of you can take a flyin’ leap!”

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By radson, May 18, 2012 at 7:15 am Link to this comment

Ed an interesting and thoughtful post from the heart .I would like to add a few things ;first of all the US has been supplanted from within ,its actually the easiest way to gain control of a Nation .The Brits are well aware of this along with
the Swiss and the so called Zionists .England and Switzerland are actually Have Not Countries contrary to popular belief ,therefore they require host Nations to exploit somewhat like Lampreys that have to suck the life blood from their host.They achieve this control through the Medium of money and oil and more recently through the Agribusiness paradigm
which is actually wreaking havoc across the planet especially in India as we speak .Through the Pacs ,Superpacs and
lobbyists they are intentionally destroying the American Constitution ,because its a detriment to the Laissez-faire philosophy or self regulation if you wish.America doesn’t need Britain or Switzerland or Israel to survive its the other way around that is why off shoring and the elimination of Americas’ manufacturing base is so vital ,it renders the Nation and many other Nations dependant on imports when in reality they can easily produce what they require domestically and become self-sufficient .Self-sufficiency is actually the greatest threat to Globalization and that is why the recent list of Countries that have been ‘knocked off ’ which includes the likes of the former Yugoslavia ,Iraq ,Sudan ,Libya ,Afghanistan
and more recently Syria and Iran .These Countries are or were not members of the World Trade Organization ,which in essence is a thorn in the Banksters side because they chose not to genuflect.I do realize that what I wrote is putting it in a ‘nutshell’ and many of the topics should be expatiated upon ,but that will depend on posters that wish to expand on the subject matter.

cheers

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By Ed Romano, May 18, 2012 at 5:12 am Link to this comment

Another Poor Me ...Look I’m Puerto story. Just because you can’t understand something that is written in a straight forward manner doesn’t mean it’s stupid shit. Of course, I didn’t know if you were indian or not, but you were coming on with the same whacky arguments as the ones who claim to be. So I answered you as I did to make the point that… to ask people who have nothing whatsoever to do with having crated a problem to “atone” and make “recompense” is just short of insane. ALL peoples….that’s ALL peoples…. who have lived under systems that protect the greedy and the power hungry have suffered from injustice. The cure is not to attack each other, but to figure out who might be an ally in changing the system….. Now if you think shipping all descendants of europans back to Europe is a little unrealistic,  wait until you try to pare down cities like New York, Boston and Chicago to a humane, manageable size…...and after we have shipped 300 million people back to Europe ,and they realize the injustices that were heaped on their ancestors, what do we do? Ship everybody back to Africa and leave Europe for the Cave Men ?....If your proposal was coming from a “hypothetical revolutionary government” why the hell didn’t you say it right out? Believe me, I understand the subjection of one group of people by another. I’ve been fighting against it for over fifty years and have paid a price for that opposition. Sure, federal troops did not burn my teepee, but the U.S. government has exacted a price. What has happened to the victims of capitalism and colonialism is wrong, murderous…whatever you want to call it, but the task is to change the system that allows it, not to attack other ethnic groups who have also been victims of the system…. Now, I realize that if any of this conflicts with what you need to believe….it will summon another rant…but, if your capable… stop and and think about it for a minute. What, in the name of God, did people like me have to do with things that happened before I was born, or are now happening due to a government policy over which I have absolutely no control. You seem like a person who has a fairly good understanding of what we’re up against. For God’s sake,use the brains he gave you. I am not the enemy.

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By randy whitehurst, May 18, 2012 at 3:55 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

There are many problems. Many people love to complain. But there is only
ONE SOLUTION FOR ALL. THAT IS TAXPAYER FUNDED ELECTIONS. BUT
THERE AGAIN IT MAY BE VOTED DOWN BY COMMENTATOR,  COLUMISTS,
AND UNDERGROUND NEWS. NOT MUCH TO DISCUSS WHEN THE ASSHOLES
IN THE WORLD DISAPPEAR. I AM SURE SOMEONE WILL DO SOMETHING
STUPID WE CAN TALK ABOUT TIL HELL FREEZES OVER. THAT WILL CUT
DOWN ON STUPITY AND THE ONES WHO DONT LEARN CAN NEVER LIVE IT
DOWN. WELL WRITE ABOUT THEM TIL THEY LEARN OR DIE LAUGHING
WITH US AT THEM. WE WILL LAUGH. THEY CAN GO AWAY LAUGHING TOO
OR JUST GO AWAY. STUPITY WILL BE SANCTIONED AS THE FIRST
UNPROTECTED CLASS IN AMERICA. THEY CREATED OUR PROBLEMS. NOW
LETS SEE THEM OUR RUN THEIR SELF IMAGE CREATION IN JOKES.

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By robespierre, May 17, 2012 at 10:41 pm Link to this comment

AmericanMe’s got me pegged as an oppressive and arrogant cracker and Ed’s got me down as an Indian wanting a handout. Well, dig this, I am Puerto Rican. I am one up on you both: Taino, Spanish (white) and African. Oh, I got Indian blood, AmericanMe, but the Tainos refused to be enslaved so we were hunted down by specially trained and armored, bull mastiff dogs and shredded to pieces by that hero Colon and his “men.” So spare me the racist stereotypes

AmericanMe, you talk about having citizenship imposed? Try telling that to a Puerto Rican. We’re good enough citizens to get killed in US wars at a greater ratio than any other group in the U.S., but we’re not quite good enough citizens to vote for pres. or have a vote in Congress. True I have no interest in such garbage, but it galls. So does the rule that, if we fly la bandera de la isla we have to fly the gringo flag next to it. Yes, it’s the law.

So AmericanMe you know a little history of the French Revolution. Take a bow. But apparently you never read of Socrates or the concept of irony. Naturally if I spout about revolutionary violence I should have a name like Robespierre.

Ed, you sure can write some stupid shit which probably explains why you can’t seem to read. My proposal was coming from a hypothetical revolutionary government, and it sought to address two parallel realities: environmental degradation and some sort of justice for Indians. It also tries to be a little bit realistic, though that is a pretty flexible realm. I’m thinking that AmericanMe’s proposal to ship all the Europeans back to Europe (would that be me too as I am part Spanish?) will meet some stiff competition. So, instead, I figured let people who want to live without destroying the Earth live sustainably on the land according to traditions and practices still barely intact among a few indigenous peoples. Let everybody else live within cities that will not be allowed to expand beyond a fixed, sustainable limit. Let everyone in all organizations run those organizations along the lines of direct democracy.

So, that’s what I am throwing out there. It will take a revolution to get there, and that means violence. But, if we remain true to anarchistic principles there will be no Robespierres.

Desde la isla del encanto, Borinquen.

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By katsteevns, May 17, 2012 at 8:04 pm Link to this comment

So, why not pay reparations to the Iraqis? Those deaths are from the present time period. If
those who are guilty of starting and waging that war will not admitt wrong doing, do we just
put it out of our minds like we have been?

My problem with Occupy is that it’s more concerneded with jobs than with saving the lives
we are snuffing out abroad every day. Just seems selfish.

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By galeww, May 17, 2012 at 6:57 pm Link to this comment

To:  Americanme—
I am caucasian.  I do not feel superior to any race.  My ancestors came from Ireland where they were victims of prejudice, persecution and famine.  They arrived in America to face countless “Irish need not apply” signs and they struggled mightily to survive.  The point I’m trying to make is—it’s dangerous to make sweeping generalizations about Gringos.  Racial hatred and rage plays right into the hands of the ruling elite who us at odds.  In fact, your rhetoric is audacious it makes me wonder if you are a plant—hired to make waves.  I will give you the benefit of the doubt as assume you are a sincere man.  Please keep in mind—there are monsters and saints in all races but most of us are simple human beings—wanting to live a decent life.  Please do not accuse me of atrocities commited long before I was born or of atrocities I would never participated in or condoned.  Sterotypes are dividing us.  Forgivness is a difficult concept but without it—we are mired in anger, self justification, paranoia and a host of negative emotions.  For you own sake, ease up a bit—I am not your enemy.  I am not proud to be an American.  I do not approve of the way my country has bullied, abused and killed with abandon—without respect or regard for others.  I live with it.  Despite trying for 50 years to change our policies—I have been unable.  It causes me deep sorrow.  I wish you the best and hope you will remember me.

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By Ed Romano, May 17, 2012 at 6:54 pm Link to this comment

Robspierre, If you think that is ever going to happen you are really living in a dream world. I would say ...get a job ( if you can find one ) and stop waiting for the government to recompense you and your buddies. You are never going to see a dime for something that happened to some ancestor before you were born. And how about recompensing the black folks whose ancestors were slaves?  And how about recompensing all the southern european immigrants whose lives were sweated away in the New England textile mills? The average age at death for them was 36 in 1912. And how about recompensing all the folks in this country who are now destitute because the capitalists shipped all the jobs overseas searching for cheap labor ? And how about recompensing all the people in South and Central America and southeast Asia for the U.S. murder of millions of their ancestors ? The beat goes on, Pierre.  If you need a handout why not try some of the millionaire indians that the government gave all the gambling casino rights in this country. You seem to think those people are all goodness and light. See if you can get a dime out of the ones who control the casinos. They’re rolling in it. Fat chance but good luck.

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By radson, May 17, 2012 at 6:37 pm Link to this comment

The Americanme guy and Ed you guys are good ,I haven’t laughed this much in a long time hahahaha.Jesus Christ where were you guys trained perhaps at the Greek Higher School for Sophistry many a Roman Emperor would be jealous hahahaha .Tell me do any of you Gentlemen believe in Globalization and all the other Banksters delights.

cheers

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By americanme, May 17, 2012 at 5:36 pm Link to this comment

Robes, my boy, your thinking is way past faulty here.  You wrote:

“On those final two points, here is a possibility. We—meaning the new revolutionary government—proposes to set aside and/ or restore to a natural condition—vast tracts of land and place those under the control of remaining members of the first nations on the promise that they will not convert them back into urbs and suburbs and farms, etc. Of course, if “Indians” want to live in cities they can.”

It’s obvious that your thinking is that of the white dominant invader, as you insist on telling the folks from whom you stole the land what to do with it IF you place it back under our control.

Please be advised that it is up to US to decide what to do with the land you stole from us if you place it back under our control.

As for your comment that if we want to live in cities we can—Robes, in the 60s many “Indian” tribes were de-legitimized and the reservation lands seized and the folks that had lived on that land were DUMPED in cities to live on the streets thereof.In short, we were forced to live in cities.

And your permission is not needed for us to live wherever we choose—after all US citizenship was FORCED on all of us in 1924!

As for me, I have chosen to live in Mexico for the past 20 years. 

Your condescending attitude would have done your namesake proud.  If memory serves me, he perverted the French Revolution with his bogus purity, creating a Reign of Terror—and he was responsible for the execution of Danton.  I also seem to remember that he came to the same end—with his head separated from the rest of his body.

His pathological need to control didn’t end up sitting all that well with his victims.

And your need to do the same doesn’t sit well with me.

I won’t say “off with your head”, because I am not the Red Queen and this is not Wonderlan—nor Paris during your namesake’s Reign of Terror.

Nor, thankfully, is where I am typing this Kansas.

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By robespierre, May 17, 2012 at 5:32 pm Link to this comment

Oh, Ed, poor soul. You make restitution to their descendants. Is that clear enough? Will there be problems (who is, actually a descendant? How much will it cost? Should it be means-tested, etc.?)? Yes, there will. But then, it would be better than what we have ow. Euro-Americans benefitting by living on stolen land and indigenous stuck in concentration camps still paying and paying. Get it? (Yes, America invented concentration camps—called reservations.)

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By robespierre, May 17, 2012 at 5:28 pm Link to this comment

Hey Waywaves—

Geronimo is fighting the cavalry (calvary) and asked me to respond. Check out Theta Skocpol “States and Social Revolutions.” To paraphrase her, a revolution is a violent upsurge from the lower social orders that removes BOTH the ruling economic class and the political elite. She counts only the English, French, Russian,and Chinese as “real” revolutions (at least of a large scale).

Regarding a job, whether or not you suck at it, the point is you MUST sell your labor power to an owner (or try to become an owner yourself). Capitalism allows no escape from exploitative relations between people, not even for moral angels like Gerard and Glaysher. If you are a worker you get paid in wages and benefits a fraction of the value you actually create (less today than ever and far less if you live in the new manufacturing zones of the world). If you are an owner you seek to maximize profits by getting as much work as possible for the least possible wages.

The revolution starts now. Occupy is dead; long live the commune.

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By Ed Romano, May 17, 2012 at 5:23 pm Link to this comment

Robspierre, Ding Dong! How do yoiu make restitution to dead people ?

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By americanme, May 17, 2012 at 5:18 pm Link to this comment

wavy;

At the MOMENT the most successful example of an ongoing revoltion is the Bolivarian Revolution in Venezuela.

It’s actually taking place within what could be called The System—except that the system was in ruins when Hugo Chavez became president in 1999.

This particular revolution has improved dramatically the living conditions of the lower middle class and the poor.

Education is accessible and free to everyone—folks can even be paid to study and they receive meals as well.

Health care is free and accessible to everyone.

The Gini coefficient of Venezuela has gone from right around 5—where the US and Mexican Ginis are now (closing in rapidly on Zimbawbwe, it appears) to less than 4 (closing in on Sweden, Finland at alia).

The minimum wage is elevated each year to stay ahead of inflation, and this year the increment is I believe 32%.

The Bolivarian Revolution is not violent, but the folks who oppose it (the US-funded oligarchy) are violent in their actions.

There will never be a revolution in the US.  Folks are too stupid, lazy and drugged out to find their butts with both hands, much less crreate an ideology that benfits them.

Only the 1% have an ideology:  Greed is Good.

And the problem with that is the other 99% believe in that ideology, too.

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By robespierre, May 17, 2012 at 5:16 pm Link to this comment

(Robespierre enters the room, strolling, head down, deep in thought, pauses, looks up and stares around, realizing he is in a room full of people)

Ladies, gentlemen, please may I have a word.

First to American Me and Ed Romano: Ed, your analogy with Jesse James is faulty. James’ crime, while a criminal act, was undertaken by himself at his own discretion. The violation of treaties and intentional decimation of indigenous peoples was an act of the U.S. Government. As such, that government must make a good faith attempt to right the wrong. As all American citizens, including Korky and American Me and you and me are now U.S. citizens, we are all, in essence, a part of this government, and we must all bear our part of the share of whatever just resolution is reached.

American Me is engaging in faulty generalization when suggesting that a person ho is white is necessarily filled with guilt or incapable of thinking clearly. I don’t assume she means that being white involves some biological predisposition to faulty thinking; that would be racism.

Both of you are engaging in rather childish ad populum attacks on one another.

Now, Mr Glaysher, you seem to be saying that all the black sites and Guantanamo and other injustices ae not the same as in 1917 because they are not “revolutionary justice.” But this is a red herring argument. What M Henri Day was objecting to, I believe, was your tendency to moralize against revolutionary violence while failing to provide an alternative that would address the grave injustices perpetrated by this government and corporate elite now, as we speak (or type). It’s fine for you to pretend to rise above us mere mortals and espouse high, moral ideals. But it does nothing practical for altering this grotesque situation in which we all find ourselves.

So, ladies and gentlemen, the common, logical denominator to all this would seem to be a revolutionary movement that displaces the corporate elite and current state and replaces it with voluntary, self-governing organizations in the economic, political, and social institutions. It must be guided by an ethic of respect for others, genuine individual autonomy, and equality. It also must be directed toward altering our relationship to the natural world which capitalism is so assiduously destroying. And it must seek to right historic wrongs.

On those final two points, here is a possibility. We—meaning the new revolutionary government—proposes to set aside and/ or restore to a natural condition—vast tracts of land and place those under the control of remaining members of the first nations on the promise that they will not convert them back into urbs and suburbs and farms, etc. Of course, if “Indians” want to live in cities they can.

Rock on!

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By wavywaves, May 17, 2012 at 5:04 pm Link to this comment

from Wavywaves:

“revolution is not misery, but the gap between what people expect from their
lives and what is offered. This is especially acute among the educated and the
talented. They feel, with much justification, that they have been denied what
they deserve. They set out to rectify this injustice. And the longer the injustice
festers, the more radical they become.”

I think I am actually disagreeing: I demand some things of myself and expect
access to resources to help me get those things, but I do not depend on
someone else’s offer to bring my own or anyone’s arbitrary expecting or
expectations to life.

I would love the “right to a job”, but there’s no such thing. Either I’m qualified,
or I suck, or someone is just more talented, or [insert others’ competitive
whining—yes, that’s how to be a success, that’s initiative for ya!].

I am begging for an elaboration: What is “revolution”?  Is it violent?  Is it slow? 
Is it over-night?  Is it a lg. group of people shouting things until they get
pepper-sprayed?  Say, I agree with one of the people who got sprayed, but I
don’t agree with another person who got sprayed—does that mean that they
should both be sprayed?

(Oh hell, maybe let’s not listen to either “side”.)  Not to be a jackass, but what is
“revolution” to Obama v.s. what it means to the other commanders (not in
Chief)? 

Something tells me that there is a disgustingly broad interpretation field for
this term that allows for premeditated governmental violence with their
“rational” view that revolution equates to or leads to violence.

Well, just look at The Nation’s article on Breivik. A right-wing radical has his
own form of a revolution in mind. Oh look, nobody pepper-sprayed him. Damn.
geronimo pratt, - you lost me after the first paragraph. More later.

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By americanme, May 17, 2012 at 4:51 pm Link to this comment

Ed:

Who is worked up here?

Who is shouting with his keyboard?

Who is calling his intellectual superiors morons?

It’s you.

What I know about you is:  you are white, your social class is lumpen proletariat, your education is limited, your vocabulary is grade-school playground, your argumentation skills are non-existent, you are resentful that being white didn’t land you on the Forbes list, you despise all non-whites, and you are guilty as hell of everything I have charged you with.

See, Ed, I know a LOT about you.  And most of it is not pretty.

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By Ed Romano, May 17, 2012 at 4:42 pm Link to this comment

Amerigo ( and your shadow ), Now those are the posts I expect from a couple of real critical thinkers like you two. If your’s is an example of the way most indians think it’s not surprising that they got suckered by the pioneers. Your irrational ranting is truly pathetic. Without knowing anything about me, and DESPITE the fact that I agreed with you that the American indians were, and are the victims of injustice, you continue to come after me as though I was responsible for everything bad that ever happened to the indians….. I “benefitted ” from what some Irish and English and maybe German immigrants did to the indians? You are truly whacky? I was a blue collar worker all my life…screwed royally by the same kind of “white folks” you’re ranting against….. I “vote for a criminal government”. Is this your idea of critical thinking? What do you think when I tell you thatI don’t vote? What do you think of that? Does it make any difference to you that you made a claim here that is dead wrong ? Of course not. Fanatics never admit when they’re wrong. I don’t vote. I am anti capitalist and I don’t support this capitalist government…. I “support genocide now”? More critical thinking hey ?  I “promoted” genocide ? Again, more critical thinking ? I’m beginning to feel a little mad at myself for arguing with a class A moron. So you’re off my radar. Go bark at the moon or whatever it is you do to work yourself up into the state you’re in .

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By americanme, May 17, 2012 at 4:18 pm Link to this comment

truthdigger3:

Critical thinking IS common sense.

When it came to be no longer common, and in fact scarcer than hens’ teeth, academics began calling it critical thinking.

Glad to see that there are a couple of folks on this site besides me who have some critical thinking skills.

Part of critical thinking is detecting propaganda aka bullshit.

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By Frederick Glaysher, May 17, 2012 at 4:13 pm Link to this comment

Henri,

Not at all comparable to what happened in Russia from
1917 on… and which Chris Hedges in his article
encourages Occupy towards…

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By truedigger3, May 17, 2012 at 4:00 pm Link to this comment

Ed Romano,

You are wrong. Although you didn’t steal anything perosonaly from the “First Nation”, you and your ancestors benefited and are benefiting immensely from what was looted from them and they are suffering till this day as a result of this injustice. Did it happen that you passed through an Indian reservation and saw the sorry sad conditions there?? And to add insult to injury, till this very day, the Indian lands is being looted of any oil/gas/coal/minerals that are discovered there and the Indians get the crumbs.  I guess you are foggoed up by reading too much philosophy in your ivory tower high in the sky! Yes, critical thinking is needed here or what I call simple commonsense!

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By americanme, May 17, 2012 at 3:15 pm Link to this comment

Ed:

You just keep raging and ranting and projecting that I am the one who is irrationally angry. I am righteously angry.  And you are just pissed off because I pulled your pants down and exposed you for the blubbering bigoted hypocrite that you are.

If you had critical thinking skills, you’d be able to look in a mirror and see how foolishly purple your face is—and you just MIGHT relate it to your white rage as you desperately grasp at straws.

I am talking about NOW, Ed.

Stop lying about what I am saying, Ed. 

Genocide is being committed against indigenous people NOW, and you support it eagerly NOW.

Of course your grandchild should have to atone if his bigoted blustering blind booby of a grandfather doesn’t.

“The sins of the fathers are visited upon their sons”...I believe that’s how the quote goes.

You are evil, Ed.  You deliberately lie and you deliberately deny, and those are evil actions.

You vote for your criminal government and yet you refuse to have any part in paying for the violations of non-whites’ rights you promoted and promote.

Pack your bags, Ed.  Go back to Europe and take your chances as an immigrant there.  They have jobs falling from the sky and they love immigrants. 

If you are too inept to pack for yourself, someone from the Rez can go over to your place and help you.

It’s the only help you are ever going to receive from a non-white person.

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By Ed Romano, May 17, 2012 at 3:01 pm Link to this comment

Amerigo, Try as I may…. it’s impssible to believe that anyone who can write the viterperative nonsense that you trot out can have even a passing understanding of “critical thinking”. People who have the ability to think crtiically don’t find it necessary to go into a flaming rage every time out of the corral. ....In 188O Jesse James robbed a train in Glendale, Missouri. He shot a man named Robert Smith. Smith’s death robbed his family of a bread winner and his family suffered from poverty for many years. Should Smith’s descendants be able able to sue James’ descendents for retribution ? Should they ask these people, who never laid eyes on Jesse James, for atonement and still be considered sane? This issue has evidently taken such hold of your mind that you have become addled. The conditions you describe among modern indians is terrible, but ALL white perole are not responsible. If you went after the government for the crimes you ennumerated you might find some supporters. I have a grandson who is 8 years old. He is white.Is he responsible for things like the massacre at Wounded Knee ?....If you think so I’d make a good guess that you just fell off a stalk of bananas. Crtical thinking ? God, woman. Get real.

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By americanme, May 17, 2012 at 2:12 pm Link to this comment

Ed Romano:

You arrogantly suggested to another poster here that he or she take a course in critical thinking.

I teach courses in critical thinking—but not in Gringolandia.

Gringos are simply incapable of critical thinking because that kind of thinking interferes with their self-concept hanging by rotten clothespins and based on their Wall of Denial that they are all saints predestined to preside the Forbes list of billionaires. 

It is not in their greedy self-interest to admit the obvious:  that each and every one of them could pay everything they will earn until they die and not have made a dent in the INTEREST on what they owe to the non-white peoples they have murdered and stolen from all over this planet.

You will not be “saved”, Ed.  You are too mean and your thinking is too ugly.

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By M Henri Day, May 17, 2012 at 1:31 pm Link to this comment

«Alekandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago 1918-1956,
(1974), p. 32:

“Only a revolutionary sense of justice (always
infallible) guided those doing the purging and managing
the sewage system when they were deciding whom to take
and what to do with them.”

Frederick Glaysher»

Pray tell, Mr Glaysher, how would you describe the sense of justice that guides those who manage the prison at Guantánamo Bay or the black prisons spread throughout the world, or «extraordinary rendition» or «enhanced interrogation» or the drone programme or the invasions of various Asian countries, etc, etc ? Revolutionary ? Reactionary ? Or simply rotten ?...

Henri

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By Korky Day, May 17, 2012 at 1:17 pm Link to this comment

Ed Romano still hasn’t said how long it will take before the USA will be relieved morally from reparations to Vietnam.

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By katsteevns, May 17, 2012 at 1:02 pm Link to this comment

By Ed Romano, May 17 at 9:49 am

“So why, in the name of sanity, am I required to atone for anything or make reparations to people I never knew and never took anything from ?”

Because every single US citizen is benefiting in some way or another from the atrocities that make this nation what it is today. It’s a debt that keeps on piling up if it is not paid, interest free at that. You can thank our genocidal forefathers. Andrew Jackson comes to mind with those forced marches of natives across the continent or the gov’t policies for obtaining scalps.

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By RobertMStahl, May 17, 2012 at 12:13 pm Link to this comment

The Old Guard’s dictate is the atomic warfare of the
electronic age exemplified by the NSA’s last good
guy, William Binney.  I have experienced the wrath of
this deceit as early as 9/11 or the chads in Florida
before it.  The wrath was due to a lot of things, not
the least of which enacted was the destroying of an
art obelisk, solid, liquid, and gas in front of the
IMAX theater in Birmingham, AL moments before the
Iraq war when I stated over the phone it carried the
missing message of evolution for the conscription
back into the status quo it represented.  To this day
the science museum does not run the gas, and lest you
have forgotten already, it is a science museum, not a
rock and roll exhibition.  Who has been running whom
became such a quandry for me since then, but
totalitarianism controls education first and
foremost, doesn’t it?  So, since SWAT should go after
the cells, known to be covert, then Indira Singh’s
work before she came up missing in 2008 is paramount
to justice beginning.  There is just so much more
that is being lost in the separatrix of this time in
history, a time where we have done nothing to prevent
the waters from rising.

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By Ed Romano, May 17, 2012 at 10:49 am Link to this comment

Kork, You seem to take me at my word when I say I’ve only known one “indigine” ( whatever the hell that is ) well enough to have a few drinks with him once in awhile back in the day. Neither of us stole anything that belonged to the other. So why, in the name of sanity, am I required to atone for anything or make reparations to people I never knew and never took anything from ? ..... You are really in over your head, Kork when you try to make an intelligent case regarding this issue that seems to be of prime importance to you, because your method of arguing is .....I would say dishonest, but I think it’s more a case of ignorance. Just because I used Vietnam as an example the of U.S. goverment’s policy of global murder, you say I SEEM to be “oblivious, uncaring and closed minded” because I didn’t mention the A,erican indians .Don’t see how illogical that statement is ? Should I have included every national injustice that has gone on for past 100 years in my post? I leave the reader to draw their own conclusions based on the case I made. The conclusions you drew are wildly off the mark. How do you know that I’m “uncaring”...and as for being oblivious….that’s a perfect word to describe this latest rant of yours. You’re obviously not going to disappear, but why don’t you just ignore whatever I may post in the future. I’ll gladly do the same for you.

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By Frederick Glaysher, May 17, 2012 at 9:46 am Link to this comment

Alekandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago 1918-1956,
(1974), p. 32:

“Only a revolutionary sense of justice (always
infallible) guided those doing the purging and managing
the sewage system when they were deciding whom to take
and what to do with them.”

Frederick Glaysher
http://wwww.fglaysher.com

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By stands to reason, May 17, 2012 at 9:14 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Seems to me with the vaunted corporate world this country
exists under that unless any business is NOT tied into one of
those corporate vertically integrated and/or horizontally
integrated behemoths, then that business is breaking the laws in
amerika leaving that business open for takeover and ‘different
ownership’ and possible judicial and congressional actions.

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By Korky Day, May 17, 2012 at 9:03 am Link to this comment

Ed Romano sometimes seems like a righteous ally, except when he spouts off on issues about which he admits he knows little.
He says he’s met only one indigene.
The USA and Canada are almost all on territory taken by force, trickery, intimidation, slaughter, exile, etc.
Yes, past wrongs do need to be righted, as many as possible.
Does Ed think that USA reparations to Vietnam can be avoided if the USA stalls long enough? 
How long would that be?
Nevertheless, in the case of the First Nations (Western Hemisphere), the wrongs and genocide continue, to which Ed seems to be oblivious, uncaring, and closed-minded.

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By Ed Romano, May 17, 2012 at 3:46 am Link to this comment

Good morning comrades, Yesterday I posted a piece in which I said that the great majority of us are not seekers of truth, but only seek after ideas that most nearly coincide with what we see as our self interest. We then enshrine these ideas in the place of truth. There are numerous and daily illustrations of this to be found in the media. I came across one in this morning’s Boston Globe that I thought was prime. In Massachusetts, Elizabeth Warren is running for the U.S. Senate. She has been an outspoken advocate of consumer protection. One of the main issues she has raised in her campaign is the need to bring Wall St. under tighter control than is now the case. The article points out that Wall St. and Washington insiders are doing all they can to destroy her candidacy while at the same time trying to tune her out.The exceptions, they say, do not prove the rule and a few illustrations of the point I was making do not prove the truth of it either. But they go pretty far in the direction wouldn’t you say?
Onward….or backward as the case may be.

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By Marian Griffith, May 17, 2012 at 2:02 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

@Frederick Glaysher
—-I was taken aback at the extent to which the Chinese professor agreed with me that the dynamics for China were very much the same as the West.—-

Yes, well… China is not a communist regime anymore and the USA is no longer a democracy.

The world’s biggest debtor and the world’s biggest lender have found true love in each other at last and are like many married couples beginning to resemble each other more with every passing day…

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By katsteevns, May 16, 2012 at 10:12 pm Link to this comment

@ galeww

....and from what I hear, they exposed COINTELPRO.

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By katsteevns, May 16, 2012 at 10:05 pm Link to this comment

You pray to whom, the Jesus you say never walked the earth?
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/after_religion_fizzles_were_stuck_with_nietzsche_20100510/

The way I see it, the communist revolutions in Eastern Europe happened because they thought the grass was greener in the capitalistic back yards of the good ole U.S. of A. and the revolutions were nonviolent BECAUSE the governments were communistic.

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By robespierre, May 16, 2012 at 9:39 pm Link to this comment

Ah, Gerard, the wounded liberal. No, the enemy is you. Rage is precisely what is needed: unbridled rage in the form of attack against enemies: CEO’s, banksters, politicians, any police and military who do not defect.

I’m sure that you’ve already edited out of your memory banks, but you might recall that the decisive moment in the Egypt rebellion (unfortunately it never became a full blown revolution) was when regular people became enraged, attacked police vehicles and their occupants, burned police station to the ground and set the ruling party headquarters on fire.

Wisdom and caring and compassion and so on is the next step, you know, the one we will never get to because the precious liberals are too… what is it? cowardly? too tied to their little material comfort? too committed to a nonviolence that doesn’t even dare as much as MLK?

Just stay home if the future ever arrives; you can hang on to your security.

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By galeww, May 16, 2012 at 6:22 pm Link to this comment

One can bemoan the ineffectiveness of violent movements but 45 years after the Vietnam protests, and let us not forget—at one point there were 500K protesters gathered in DC—the Weather Underground remains relevent because they had the foresight to tie their violence to specific atrocities or malfeasance commited by the U.S.  A thought provoking legacy.

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By democracy, May 16, 2012 at 6:17 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Mr. Hedges admits that the corporations are destroying the planet. They are
committing ecocide. They are killing all life. Yet, he demands that people be
patient. That revolutions take time. It’s as if he is aware of the imminent,
irreversible death of our living planet, yet would rather that happen, then to see
revolutionaries display their outrage at what is, in effect, the ultimate tragedy in
the universe. The death of all beauty, all awareness, all art, every scintilla of joy.

But no, Mr. Hedges, let’s be patient and watch it happen while being beaten,
gassed, degraded, tortured, imprisoned in isolation, our families destroyed,
spied on in the streets, in our homes; robo thought police busting in our homes
with automatic weapons pointing at us, amoral thugs policing our streets,
beating us to death with impunity, our children turned into ignorant quivering
serfs, the world-indeed, even our food, air and water- into toxic stews of profit
making corporate chemicals, pollution and radioactivity. 

Mr. Hedges, you quoted Malcolm X. You remember the quote. It’s about
pretending. Let me ask you, was he talking to you? At some point, an
intellectual must be able to form the world view that fits reality, not the
“unreality” you’ve so eloquently described in the past.

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By Ed Romano, May 16, 2012 at 5:32 pm Link to this comment

Gerard, Perhaps I should not have used the word “rage” when I said that this was what is needed to confront the horror being spread by the U.S. I was trying to make a point….Perhaps anger would have been a better word….but if you think your going to get any “wisdom” from forums like this, at some point, you’re in for a rude awakening. And if you’ll stop a think… that’s t-h-i-n-k ....for a miniute…. I tried to open up an area for discussion that I think needs to be discussed….the tendency of people to become deaf to all ideas that don’t agree with their own….but you chose to completely ignore the meat of what I had to say. Can’t you see that this proves exactly the point I was making?

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By Frederick Glaysher, May 16, 2012 at 5:29 pm Link to this comment

Marxism and capitalism share the same loss and collapse, despite
the wide-ranging variety of cultures and contexts. I once spent
two weeks in a seminar at Beijing University discussing this in
1994 when perhaps less control had yet to be clamped back down. I
was taken aback at the extent to which the Chinese professor
agreed with me that the dynamics for China were very much the same
as the West.

I’m all for peaceful protest and whatever in that sense that
Occupy and others can do in the short run. I’m more interested in
addressing the underlying issues.

“Hermetically sealed in sarcophagi that keeps these decrepit
parties in power.” Night-Gaunt

Which is why the only real change can be that of the foundation,
despite any helpful cosmetic improvements. Not as quick to produce
what most think of as “change” but much deeper and lasting, such
as it can be in this world. One of the biggest challenges blocking
change is the extent to which liberal and academic opinion is
frozen in the modes of the past and utopian fanatasies. Again,
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn’s Gulag Archipelago speaks suggestively to
what might be expected from Occupy if it is merely a strategem to
destabilize an immensely flawed status-quo.

Hedges’ deepest insights, in his books, to me, are those touching
on the degree to which Christianity corrupt and much of what
passes for it would have been judged heretical by more traditional
and healthier standards.

Frederick Glaysher
http://wwww.fglaysher.com

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By Ed Romano, May 16, 2012 at 5:21 pm Link to this comment

Kork, I don’t have to “admit” anthing because I haven’t done anything. The only indian I ever knew was a Cherokee guy and drinking buddy in Chicago years ago. Of course, the American indians had great injustices done to them by white people moving west. The indians also committed great injustices against other indians not of their own tribe, just as the Germans and French committed great injustices against each other and the Japanese committed great injustices against the Chinese and Attila the Hun committed great injustices against every one he came up against and Julius Ceasar….are you getting the idea ?The point being that this is what human beings do to one another when they have the power to do so. NO ONE is immune. My grandparents were treated inhumanely and robbed by the mill owners in Massachusetts at the turn of the last century. Should I be looking for recompense from the great grand children of those mill owmers ? For God’s sake use the brains He gave you. All manner of evil is in every race of people in every age. It only needs the right circumstance to call it forward. To start talking about atonement and recompense in view of the injustices that have been committed on this planet is to be truly off the wall.

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By Korky Day, May 16, 2012 at 4:15 pm Link to this comment

I didn’t write “Rage is what’s needed” or “no one is ever converted to a point of view they didn’t start out with.” Ed Romano submitted those.

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By gerard, May 16, 2012 at 4:08 pm Link to this comment

Please, all you tough guys:
  1. The rich don’t get rich by the cooperation of the 99%.  They get rich by virtually stealing, taking far more than their share at the expense of everybody else.
  2. More people in the world understand and are resisting that fact now than ever before. The more the resistance can be free of blood and guts, the better, yes?
  3.“free-will affirmative support of a sociopathic system”—more like ignorant (imposed) unwilling, scared, job-dependent support). As to the “system”, it’s out of control, even the 1% can’t control it.
  4. Korky Day—“Rage is what’s needed.” Rage is precisely what is NOT needed. Wisdom is needed. Courage is needed,  Creativity is what’s needed. Love and care for humankind is what’s needed. Cooperation is what’s needed.  Rage is far too easy. Further:  “no one is ever converted to a point of view they didn’t start out with.” If that were true, what is happening in the world today could never have happened.
  5.Robespierre: “...I hate and want to destroy my enemy…” Remember Walt Kelly?  Never more truth was spoken than when he said (in a cartoon, no less) “We have met the enemy and he is us.” Don’t hang back.
Most of the world’s people are not looking for the future by hating and destroying enemies. They are trying to free themselves from the prisons of fear, hate and destruction—real, psychological, habituated—all prisons that enslave. It is those like Assad who are enslaved—and Netanyahu, by the way, no more than a miserable pawn of fear and hate.

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By Korky Day, May 16, 2012 at 4:07 pm Link to this comment

If Ed Romano can see that the USA selfishly, stupidly, and brutally tried to conquer Vietnam, why won’t he admit that they also are doing the same against the First Nations? 

The “Indian” treaties were basically all violated by the invaders.

The USA and Canada owe the First Nations immediate, fair, respectful negotiation of settlements, at least.  Anything less is imperialist and/or racist.

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By Night-Gaunt, May 16, 2012 at 3:48 pm Link to this comment

But what do you do when the revolutionists are the elites? For 30 years they have been both undercutting the govt and insinuating themselves in it to subvert it? Where they are also amassing soldiers outside and inside our own military? Where a massive economic collapse could usher them in as the ones to run govt and national security. One we just missed but G.W.Bush & Obama helped to shore up and are ready to do it again very soon? This with no high level prosecutions or significant change in how these companies operate. Too big to fail, they are now larger than they were before 2008, and are doing the exact same things that caused it before.

While since 1970 when for the first time since the 1840’s the rise in pay froze. So that workers had to barrow the difference. After awhile the corporations wanted in on that action and created their own banks to charge that interest. Automation was another strike against workers in the Middle Class, put many out of work even if it hurt the over all economy. (Japan figured that was bad for their economy and cut back on automation to employ those made unemployed and destitute.)

The Democratic-Socialists won against Tsar Nicholas and the first president of Russian was Kerensky and then that was when the Bolsheviks struck. I’m with Kropotkin on this.

Our version of the hard liners waiting in the wings to swoop in and take over we can see in the Tea Party and some of the hard line billionaires backing them.We are ripe for it. However if they get what they want all the self destruction will have to end. And I see them doing it. Otherwise their Holy American Empire (HAE) would fold soon after into chaos. More like southern Somalia or worse.

Violence tends to breed more violence. Our founders essentially were forced to fight and invasion. All talk failed and for some of the people afterward it was fine. However women, African slaves, Indians, various religions weren’t given equal treatment under the law. It took a very long time to bring some balance to them. But even so in 2012. Now we run the risk of sliding back culturally to the 1600’s theocratic colonies. But with modern weapons and counter insurgency techniques.

By the Worm,

While I listen closely to what Chris says and find myself sympathizing, I cannot agree that voting third party is more useful than voting for Obama & the Democrats.

Because of the structural changes made in our two party system no other party has a parity with them automatically so it is a waste of time and effort to do so. Our enemies have done this. So of course they infiltrated both parties though the Democrats still have some Progressives but none in power in the party and slowly but surely being pushed out. Hermetically sealed in sarcophagi that keeps these decrepit parties in power.

By Mairead,
Romney
is elite scum and never really pretends to be anything else.

Obama pretended to be on our side, yet has consistently betrayed us while continuing to lie about it. 

He might be or just have as touch of it. Many people do without having all the characteristics of a psychopath or a sociopath. It doesn’t matter since though he is careful to support the present Liberal lean in the Culture he is solidly behind the continuing building, spreading and deepening the National Security State that wen it asserts itself all those Cultural freedoms would be gone.

Nevertheless, Obama and the Democrats represent the better of the two choices. The Worm

Yes and it is done on purpose. Get it? Death of democracy by a million cuts. So we die really fast or a bit more slowly and we won’t fret so much after dodging that bullet yet again. Only you hadn’t. The poison is still in your system only it had sugar added and you don’t know yet you are still dying. Just more slowly. All planned and it is working all too well.

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By Ed Romano, May 16, 2012 at 3:42 pm Link to this comment

Kork, God bless you, man. If I might suggest that if you have a community college near you ....you consider taking a course in critical thinking.Of course, human beings have been slaughtering each other for a lot longer that 300 years. What does that have to do with apologizing to the racist you mentioned ? I’ve only been alive for a fraction of that time. I don’t owe her a dime. Don’t bother to come back at me with a mindless rant. I really don’t care what you or any other racists think.

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By Korky Day, May 16, 2012 at 3:23 pm Link to this comment

Sorry, I should have referred to
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/welcome_to_the_asylum_20120430/
where the Ed Romano - americanme discourse is, in part.

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By Korky Day, May 16, 2012 at 3:09 pm Link to this comment

Ed Romano’s contribution of 2012 May 16, 1:13 pm is inspiring.  He wrote, “This government has been on a murderous rampage for sometime now.”  If he will admit that the period to which he refers is a few hundred years, then he will be ready to apologize to “americanme”.

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By Ed Romano, May 16, 2012 at 2:13 pm Link to this comment

Frederick, Hello. We should perhaps separate the analysis of capitalism Marx made from his proposed solution - the disasters that Russia and China made in his name separate from his surgical disection of the system. His analysis that starts with the understanding that capitalism exists by the massive exploitation of labor is spot on, as the saying goes nowadays. Which is why, when the apoligists for capitalism attack Marx it is for the predictions he made and very seldom for the analysis ....But I wanted to use the opportunity you gave me when you wrote abput the need for change in the human heart to write about something else…When most people are adopting a philosophy or way of life to live by they
choose those ideas that most nearly coincide with what they believe is their self interest. They root around for “facts” they think will bolster their ideas and enshrine the whole thing in the place of “truth “. A disinterestd search for truth is one of the rarest things humans engage in. Men and women do not usually search for truth and then follow that truth even if it goes what they beleive is their best interests. If you’ve noticed in these forums…no one is ever converted to a point of view they didn’t start out with. People will praise a poster if what they read can be added to the arsenal of what they already believe, and attack him/her viciously if an idea is opposed to what they hold as “true”....So in a time that is screaming for real,meaningful change you are not likly to get much, if any, help from the intellectual beliefs found in places like this. ...Following your lead I would say that we would probably be far ahead of the game if we started thinking with our hearts instead of our heads. In that regard I believe the most important thing missing from core of what most people believe is imagination…the imagination to feel what it’s like to walk in another person’s shoes…the imagination to feel what it’s like to be the parent of a child who has had their arms and legs blown off in a war started and waged by one’s own government…imagination to look beneath the use of terms like ” collateral damage” and realize that it is a euphemism for the murder of civilians…..During the Vietnam War I was the editor of an anti war monthly. One day a picture came across my desk of a dead Viet Cong soldier….just guessing I would say he was about as old as his American counterparts….about 18 or 19.
His skull had imploded and his face was sunk in the cavity. Next to his head lay his brain blown out of his skull through a hole in the top of his head. The staff debated whether or nor this picture should be the front page of our next issue. I thought about it and then decided no becuase I thought it was too gruesome. I have always regretted that decision. Apoligists for U.S. policy and hawks in general need to have there noses rubbed in what the government is doing in our name because they haven’t got the imagination to figure it out for themselves. On the top shelf of my dining room cabinet is a picture of a nine year old Vietnamese girl. Her blouse is rolled up to reveal a long, spider like scar ,,,the result of an antipersonel bomb. The child stares out at the viewer through eyes half blinded by the bomb and seems to ask - why did you do this to me ? This is what people need to know and see. Forget the bullshit of what we “think”. This government has been on a murderous rampage for sometime now. “Thinking” doesn’t put a dent in its plans. Rage is what’s needed. People need to see what’s going on. During that useless war we saw the reality of it every night on t.v. That’s a main reason why the anti war movement was so huge. It’s also the reason why the government no longer allows reporters to go where the action is. It’s up to us who understand the reality of it to keep that reality in front of the people’s eyes. ( Okay, kiddies. Bring on the slings and arrows)

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By robespierre, May 16, 2012 at 2:07 pm Link to this comment

“when each of us changes in our hearts…” That is the first half-step. The full step is what to do with that self-knowledge. If you want to sit on the sidelines and sing “Om” and “love your neighbor as yourself” wonderful, marvelous, you do that. Then when those who will fight make a future that is actually free and equal and not just a dream, what then? Will it be you, who, having always known moral truth, comes down from your perch to tell us all how to live, even though you had no role in creating a new world? It’s amazing how tolerant liberals are as long as everyone accepts absolutely and unequivocally their dogma—a dogma that, with its uber-pacifism, actually will achieve nothing.

Face it; you’re comfortable. You live a nice middle class life no matter what is going down all around you. You want to maintain it, probably at all costs. Pay your taxes, hold a sign, and, above all, never be violent. (We let the military and police do that for us, right?)

Just because I hate and want to destroy my enemy does not mean I hate and want to destroy or rule over you. It’s only anarchists who are actually against violence because we recognize that all state and class systems are founded on coercion, which is to say, violence. Our violence is toward a nonviolent end whilst your inaction assures the continuation of the most systemically violent culture ever on Earth.

When each at least unto himself shall waken.
Comes it in sunshine? In the tempest’s thrill?
I cannot tell—but it the earth shall see!
I am an Anarchist! Wherefore I will
Not rule, and also ruled I will not be! McKay

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By Frederick Glaysher, May 16, 2012 at 1:50 pm Link to this comment

Occupy quite possibly will merely provide the justification for
the backlash, barefaced fascism, cloaked in heretical Christian
guise, the prevailing ideology already firmly ensconced for
many.

To understand Chris Hedges’ program and much of the
“progressive” program, regressive really, read Alexandre
Solzhenitsyn’s Gulag Archipelago. The world has been there all
too many times since 1917. Hedges has always reminded me of
Kropotkin, so I found it revealing that he chose to refer to
him.

Far from spinning the Marxist wheel once again, there is, I
believe, surprisingly, a way forward. There are more effective
ways of dealing with unbounded greed and materialism, whether
the official atheism of the Marxist tyrannies or that of
capitalism.

The Bengali Nirad C. Chaudhuri was right when he wrote, in a
number of books, as in the Three Horsemen and the New
Apocalypse, about decadence, that one of its invariable signs
is that intellectuals lose the ability to perceive it.

Frederick Glaysher
http://www.fglaysher.com

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By David J. Cyr, May 16, 2012 at 11:02 am Link to this comment

QUOTE, gerard:

“The rich don’t get rich by cooperating”
_____________

The richest get richer through the active and passive cooperation of the indentured class and the underclass.

Witness America: Wealth is globally extracted from Nature and ruthless exploitation of workers’ labor to be steadily concentrated into fewer hands, because 99% of voters continually collaborate in solidarity together, regularly cooperatively voting for the corporate party’s Republicans and Democrats, in free-will affirmative support of a sociopathic system dedicated to making the richest richer at the expense of everyone else and the deliberate devastation of the environment required for life to continue upon this planet.

The corporate-state’s “education” system has successfully produced a 99% comprised of people who regularly choose to either actively affirmatively (R) or (D) corporate party vote in support of societal suicide, or passively acquiesce to those supermajority mandated policies leading to certain extinction by refusing to vote against the corporate-state’s money-manufactued political psychopaths.

1% have been refusing to cooperate, while 99% have been collaborating.

Voter Consent Wastes Dissent:

http://chenangogreens.org/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=498&Itemid=1

Jill Stein for President:

http://www.jillstein.org

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By gerard, May 16, 2012 at 10:09 am Link to this comment

Frederick Glaysher:  Quoting you:  “...a new
recognition of what it means to be human,
reconnecting with the many traditions in a new way,
looking forward, not backwards…” You are right, of course, and millions of people have come, or are coming, to realize it. Broad international travel, and internet communication, makes it inevitable; in fact, the equipment is pushing everybody faster than they can keep up.
  The fact is that governments don’t want things to move so fast and are trying everywhere to slow down the communication and understanding among “common” people because once those people get into human contact, thay refuse to remain “common” in the rulers’ sense. (The negative reactions of governments of all types are easy to see.)
  People like Julian Assange fully realize this, and that’s why they are feared and punished. Actually, once the “ruling classes” wake up and join the human race, things will go better. But—here’s the catch—it requires giving up power for cooperation.
The rich don’t get rich by cooperating; kings don’t become kings because they know how to cooperate.
  Power-over is being replaced by power-with—but slowly and painfully. Force (counter-power like killing, threat, pain) won’t work any more. The change so many of us, along with you, want will come. But it will take time plus patience and a variety of creative responses from everybody. After all, it involves the whole world. Think of that!

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By M Henri Day, May 16, 2012 at 9:48 am Link to this comment

How often, Mr Glaysher, have not phrases of the type «the deeper change we all need is in the human heart of each and every one of us» been used to divert our gaze from the injustices that the powerful constantly work upon the weak - if you like the 1% on the 99% ? But leaving that issue aside, I should very much like to know what evidence you can adduce for your following claim - «[h]istorically speaking, comparatively, that produces real,significant, and lasting peaceful change through natural growth and evolution» - a proposition which should be amenable to empirical investigation. «Historically», to which examples of «real, significant, and lasting peaceful change» can you point that have been brought about by «deeper change ... in the human heart» ? I suspect that, on the contrary, it is dini that is right here - «[u ]ntil then we are hurting victims of this corporate, capitalist system that has us convinced somehow that it is our fault that our children don’t have jobs, are unbalanced, are living at home as adults, are mentally ill, are using drugs to escape their “weakness” against a system that encourages just that». To my mind, the problem lies not in the «hearts» of these «hurting victims», but rather with a vicious system that permits their exploitation….

Henri

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By rumblingspire, May 16, 2012 at 9:40 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

modern culture is determined by big business.  culture is purchased.  we are compromised every time we buy.  we must break ourselves before we break the corporations.

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By Frederick Glaysher, May 16, 2012 at 8:43 am Link to this comment

Even were all of that to take place, and much of it
needs to, in one way or another, what then… The
real change needed is much deeper, local and global,
which can only really come about through a new
recognition of what it means to be human,
reconnecting with the many traditions in a new way,
looking forward, not backwards. That necessity would
still remain at the end of the day.

Protests and that kind of radical “activism” tend to
the worst passions of the human being, inciting, or
inviting violence, if not perpetrating it, becoming
the pretext for a violent response, back and forth.
Hedges’ romanticizing the Marxist political
trajectory glosses over much of the actual human
misery it produced by the many tens of millions…

The much deeper change we all need is in the human
heart of each and every one of us. Historically
speaking, comparatively, that produces real,
significant, and lasting peaceful change through
natural growth and evolution.

Frederick Glaysher
http://www.fglaysher.com

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By litlpeep, May 16, 2012 at 8:25 am Link to this comment

This says it succinctly: “We are controlled by tiny corporate entities that have no loyalty to the nation and indeed in the language of traditional patriotism are traitors.”

And we cooperate with that tyranny with our credit cards, with out addictions to new autos and new appliances and new techno-toys and all sorts of trashy gadgets we don’t need and are not very useful.

We also cooperate with the tyranny by eating corporate trashy food that destroys our health and by failing to cooperate with our neighbors to build self-sufficient alliances and economies right where we live.

We cooperate with the tyranny by not growing even a tiny bit of our own food (lettuce will grow in a pot on a window sill.  Tomatoes will grow from a bucket hanging from a deck. Many such example await the sober imagination.)

Maybe when the economic stranglehold now held in place by the Wall Street Muppets and their bipartisan DC Puppets hurts enough of us we will stop arguing over which puppet is the better one, and just walk away, laughing the perverts out of our lives.

But to do this, we need a sense of humor.  And sobriety.

Are we really fatally addicted to the thousands of unsustainable conveniences provided by irresponsible Muppets and puppets?

I hope not, but fear we are.

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By SharonMI, May 16, 2012 at 7:39 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Yes, dini, blaming the victim and divide and conquer are two sides of the same coin. To see the true perps, victims must stop viewing each other as rivals for the crumbs of said perps, and stop asking for “more please.”

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By geronimo pratt, May 16, 2012 at 7:38 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

To Waywaves—

It’s not corporations that are evil per se. Non-profits are corporations; really, any organized group of people might be called a “corporation.” The question is the purpose of organizations. Do they maintain the liberty and equality and dignity of all the members? Do they seek to help themselves and others outside the organization? Do they strengthen the human and biotic communities? Are they open to others?

Capitalism, by its very nature, does none of these things. Private or public for profit corporations are focused on one thing: return on investment for their members. As capitalism is synonymous with competition the most ruthless, ambitious, cunning, manipulative, and, ultimately,anti-social people “naturally” tend to rise to the pinnacle of corporations. The corporate model has become so all-pervasive that nearly every institution is run along those lines.

Attacking corporations, in one way or another, is an attack on capitalism. The only conceivable kind of organization that can be guided by the principles stated above would be a horizontal, voluntary, self-governing group. Anarchism: the one ideology that has always been viciously attacked by all would-be tyrants. Consider the Brothers and Sisters of the Free Spirit, the Diggers, the Paris Commune, Makhnov, or the Spanish Civil War.

This time it’s real freedom and equality.

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By dini, May 16, 2012 at 5:23 am Link to this comment

Ok.  All you have to do is look at your family to see how our energies have been
diverted to individual problems.  No jobs for them…who do we get up set at? 
People using drugs…who do we get upset at?  Idle time spent on computers
who do we get upset at?  More crime who do we get upset at?  No respect for
authority who do we get upset at?  Greedy consumers who do we get upset at? 
Either we blame ourselves or our family or some scapegoat.  Once we see the
truth and understand the real cause of it all we can start doing the work that
needs to be done.  Until then we are hurting victims of this corporate, capitalist
system that has us convinced somehow that it is our fault that our children
don’t have jobs, are unbalanced, are living at home as adults, are mentally ill,
are using drugs to escape their “weakness” against a system that encourages
just that. 
Time for us to Wake UP GET UP AND STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS as Bob Marley
sang loud and clear.  Power to us victims of an insane AMERICA.  Unite and
fight the right perpetrator not each other.  With Love we stand against this
Destroyer of the Family.

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By EmileZ, May 16, 2012 at 4:45 am Link to this comment

@ gerard

My apologies. I should have been more specific. Below, is a comment written by “unsanitorial” addressed to you. Since it had your name on top, I mistakenly thought you wrote it. “unsanitorial” wrote that he had a comment removed from the Moyers and Company website. Thinking it was you that wrote it, I was baffled, as I couldn’t imagine you writing a comment that didn’t mesh with the community guidelines over there.

Sorry for all the confusion and wasted time.

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By blackorpheus, May 15, 2012 at 11:16 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Hedges cites the American and Russian Revolution, yet exiles any tactic deviating from non-violence. That is an utopian vision which will never come to pass, in my view. In the process Hedges libels several very different revolutionary gtoups with the same brush. The Black Panthers, Baader-Mienhof gang, the Weather Underground and the Symbionese Liberation Army are very different animals.

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By Daruma, May 15, 2012 at 10:58 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

To the ignorant and hysterical comes the dogma of the birth cult.

 

 

 

 

Persecute the buddhist.

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By wavywaves, May 15, 2012 at 10:42 pm Link to this comment

Are all corporations are evil?  I feel dumb.

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By fjh, May 15, 2012 at 9:07 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Unfortunately, the Occupy Movement has been a real failure so far - unless you consider the fact that they made “99% versus 1%” a household mantra. Don’t obviously follow mainstream news but has the O.M. even been a blip on their radar recently?

The whole movement should have solidly pushed for removing the money from politics and the media and made that their sole purpose. KISS - and tell people what they need to do to do it! Get the money out of those two areas and maybe government has a chance to work the way it is supposed to and other issues will be resolved more easily. Pretty much every American other than the 1% can stand behind that concept and that’s what you need - millions out in the streets, not a few scraggly college students. Instead they splintered into pieces and “occupied” this and “occupied” that. The 1% are laughing their collective asses off . . . and sighing a great sigh of relief - “Whew, missed that one by a hair!”

They need to reorganize themselves and get their act together. Maybe then it won’t take a decade to accomplish their goal.

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By gerard, May 15, 2012 at 8:50 pm Link to this comment

EmileZ, May 15, 5;33
  I’M TOTALLY IN THE DARK, Emile.  I won’t worry about it unless I hear more from you.  Couldn’t find any remains of the previous Moyers article/video, even under “Reports” of old TD stuff. Anyway, as to gutter-language, I’m not up to it in any case. It’s too denigrating to all concerned.

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By Leo, May 15, 2012 at 8:03 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Right on, Chris, as always.

There is yet another non violent way to dismantle this corporate dictatorship.

All it takes is for the majority to stop spending frivolously for one fiscal quarter,
just one quarter.  It will show up on the earning reports of these corporations.  The
ripple effect will topple the ‘regime’.

Please folks, just spend wisely.

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By EmileZ, May 15, 2012 at 6:33 pm Link to this comment

@ gerard

Whoops, I was not responding to you, but to a comment written by someone else responding to you that I thought was you at the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC_wcFDpLmw

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By EmileZ, May 15, 2012 at 6:15 pm Link to this comment

@ gerard

Over on Moyer’s site, I commented as “worker13”.

There was a comment listed as “removed” at the time.

I can’t imagine you going off on a profanity-laced hateful rampage.

What gives over there???

Frankly, I thought I may have been crossing the line when I wrote “It is a baloney festival in hell”.

He has had some good folks on his new program (activists in particular) along with the bad and middling.

Anyhow, I am curious what you wrote.

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By V., May 15, 2012 at 6:02 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Unsanitorial,

I am saddened to read about GradyLeeHoward. He and I conversed at BMJ some time ago. You and he are so right about what has happened over at PBS. I too have been keeping up with Chris Hedges.

There is someone else that you will never see on PBS. That is Dr. Morris Berman. May I suggest that you visit his blog at: http://morrisberman.blogspot.com/. You will not find and sugarcoating of what is really going on. You can see him on Book TV.

Keep up the good fight.

V.

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By radson, May 15, 2012 at 5:50 pm Link to this comment

Klouphin Plouphin knows what needs to be done and only the Elders can guide the young towards the path of awareness .In this time of suicidal tendencies that are being preached by the mammon seekers that think only of the SELF a seed is slowly absorbing the essence of life itself ,the water which we are all part of will spring forth a community that will cut the Rot from within and whither the virus that has inflicted Humanity for so many generations .Our only DEBT is to Mother Earth herself and until the masses understand where there allegiance lies then the pillaging will continue .Old Man Turtle ;TAO is on the right path .

Hoka

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By bd6951, May 15, 2012 at 4:56 pm Link to this comment

To hasten collapse the energy industry needs to be nationalized for without energy - read liquid transportation fuels (LTFs) - money means nothing.  Stripping the military of access to LTFs cripples the military to the point of impotence.  Peak Oil is the tool to accomplish this objective.  The citizenry needs to undertake a massive effort to grow food locally.  Being able to feed oneself partially eliminates the need for money. 

The money changers are not the “best and the brightest” as they sycophantically describe themselves.  The financial plunderers have stolen the commons, the natural systems that sustain us all, including them.  The commons needs to be reclaimed by the citizenry.  The commons include fresh water, clean air and everything else the ecosystem provides to us.  These people are killing our planet in the pursuit of profit, a concept unknown to nature.

The only solution is to change how money works.  How to effect that change is the crux of the matter.  How I wish there were a way to bring this about without dragging Dimon, Blankfien et al into the streets and giving them the choice of changing or perishing.  Alas, there seems to be no other way and that sickens me.

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By Korky Day, May 15, 2012 at 4:54 pm Link to this comment

“R. Noel Chrisman” (2012 May 15, 11:04 am) writes as if one simple little change, removing the personhood rights of corporations, would salvage the USA.  No, that change alone wouldn’t even take the money out of elections.
Individuals could still give as much as they wanted, even if corporations couldn’t.

No, no, no.  Much more drastic change is needed if violence is to be minimized.
Vote at
http://www.demochoice.org/dcballot.php?poll=DemoRefUS

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By Korky Day, May 15, 2012 at 4:44 pm Link to this comment

“americanme” (2012 May 15, 10:37 am) says what the invaders of America should do.  I agree.
We in the Green Party are trying to do so.  Proportionally more than any other party, I think, we have had First Nations members and candidates, including Winona LaDuke for vice president of the USA.

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sallysense's avatar

By sallysense, May 15, 2012 at 4:07 pm Link to this comment

(corporate-colony tourways)...

“all aboard for our corporate-colony tours!”...
cries a guide at the coachline’s great station…
custom-fit passenger cars tailored for classes…
dangle on rails greased with slick destinations!...

business-pawn college-trained brisk engineers…
proficiently railroad folks away from the truth…
into con-artistry’s easy-fold scenery instead…
steering clear of those gloomy side routes!...

from penniless pockets to higher-up change…
through pecking order’s mindsets or otherwise…
the poor and middle class and misfortune’s clan…
cram into group rates for corporate-colony’s ride!...

folks pass their time over views at these windows…
while coachline directors hide grins beneath chins…
for as long as the people remain where they are…
things stay the same and new tours will begin!...

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By herb, May 15, 2012 at 2:23 pm Link to this comment

Liberal angst.  More movies should be made about it.

First a little joke:

There was a cowboy that had grown up on the range and had no concept of the modern world who suddenly was sent by his employer to New York, complete with expense account, to wrangle some imported stock.  Settled in at the hotel he decides to start at the saloon.  He is sitting there contemplating his rye with beer back when an attractive young woman seats herself a couple of stools down at the bar.  He is obviously hitting on her when she suddenly explains that she is a lesbian.  He asks her what a lesbian is and she explains how she just thinks about women, all the time, never men.  She leaves and a couple comes in and, noticing the hat and the boots ask him if he is a cowboy.  He says, “I used to think I was but I just learned that I am a lesbian.”

I used to think I was a radical.  Now I think I am a déclassé intellectual.  Thanks Chris.  That feels much better. 

Climb out of wretched poverty by talent and return to wretched poverty by treason.  Dust to dust, ashes to ashes, and as the Shaker hymn says, we gain, in return a classless world:

‘Tis the gift to be simple,
‘tis the gift to be free
‘Tis the gift to come down where we ought to be,
And when we find ourselves in the place just right, ‘Twill be in the valley of love and delight.

When true simplicity is gain’d,
To bow and to bend we shan’t be asham’d,
To turn, turn will be our delight,
Till by turning, turning we come ‘round left’ [author’s indulgence].

Thus the core paradox of revolution, a call to fight so that no one has anything, no privileged, no rank more so or less so than anyone else.  Achievement of a politics without private motivation-less.  The Buddha would smile I suspect.  But most of the educated would balk, I suspect.  Little do they know what is good for them, I guess.

Banish Debt!

herb

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By robespierre, May 15, 2012 at 2:01 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Get out in the street with the radicals (no, not the liberals). There is absolutely no shortage of awareness that American hegemony is rooted in genocidal crime.

Smashing windows of banks and corporations is a tactic designed as a cue to people that the corporations are not invulnerable, that they can be attacked, that the security apparatus is not infallible.

For all of you who proclaim property as sacred you might ask which side you’re on. Anyway, your moral outrage at property destruction would apply to the Boston Tea Party patriots. And if you’re against violence you’re against the American revolution, Nat Turner, John Brown, and many of the most effective elements of the vaunted Civil Rights Movement.

Imagine if as many people attacked corporate property as currently march in a herd and then quietly go home. Probably it would evolve into an actual takeover of that property, property that, after all, is created by and through workers.

Attack is social war.

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By Unsanitorial, May 15, 2012 at 1:40 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

gerard: I can measure some progress at billmoyers.com
(Moyers&Company;)this week. I was censored and banned
Friday after praising guest RoseAnn DeMoro (nurses’
union president) for saying the Presidential election
is irrelevant, and then for criticizing Kathleen Hall
Jamieson (Univ. of PA Annenberg Center Analyst) for
embracing the Ryan budget and the Simpson-Bowles
austerity letter (no report ever issued for lack of
consensus). If you care to examine that thread you’ll
find my stub under “Guest” (second post)already with
2 or 3 likes and an approving comment. But what
follows has encouraged me in my dissent. About half
the subsequent commentators admire DeMoro for the
same reasons, criticize Jamieson for the same reasons
or both. A number of these short essays request
Jamieson be dropped as a regular commentator because
of her approval of austerity. Many writers were
exited over the nurses’ union championing of a
financial transactions tax, now sidetracked in
Congress.

My colleague and friend Grady Lee Howard died
suddenly May 5th and I am ambivalent about stepping
up to deliver his message, the points he restated for
so long as spokesperson for Figgers Institute. Moyers
was a place he liked to work. He thought elderly Bill
Moyers retained a spark of justice and fairness
despite his staid upper middle class audience. I
thought Grady was making a breakthrough there just as
he was banned. I share his conclusion that Moyers is
constrained by his funding and associates more in the
new show than he had been in his Journal. Te Journal
was obviously cancelled from PBS along with NOW@PBS
at the time of the Koch funding ascendancy. It is sad
to see a team of journalists and documentary
producers like those at Public Affairs Television
assume this Vichy attitude. Offering halfway measures
and watered down reforms is poison to an informed
public. The false hope of the Obama campaign is
parallel and compatible with such sell-out reporting.
It must be hard to find the “Things ain’t so bad”
element approved under MSM rules and present them as
revolutionary. It’s as if one could overcome stage 4
cancer with a makeover on Dr. Oz. Moyers has lost
credibility.

You will not see Chris Hedges guesting at
Moyers&Company;. We all understand why. He cuts too
close to real conditions. I am plleasantly surprised
to find him tolerated here. His message clashes with
the commercial ads. I am debating how to proceed and have registered here. Can I expect to be banned if I write in this vein?

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