to rowman,
Did you notice that I wrote “literal inerrant word of god”? I would refer you to one whom I believe is a sincere Christian, Jimmy Carter. He broke with the southern baptist convention because they insisted on a literal interpretation, which he, as a scientist, knew to be rediculous. Evolution is a fact! The earth is over 4 billion years old. The creation of genesis is a fairy tale--this in no way contradicts Christianity. The old testament is in part justification of the jew genocidal massacre of the ameklites—god mad us do it. The old testament god is a cruel genocidal monster—and a homophobe to boot-- read it for yourself.

for clayr,

I thank you for your service. I was commissioned via ROTC before the first USAFA class graduated and am now retired (as you expect). The Air Force provided me with wonderful opportunities for education and personal growth. I am color blind and was not flight qualified, but served as a weather officer. My undergraduate degree was in engineering. My first year in the Air Force was at NYU to become a meteorologist. After 3 years at base weather stations, the USAF sent me to MIT where I received MSs in meteorology and aero-astro. I took aerodynamics from a young pretty TA named Sheila Widnall. She was the Secretary of the Air Force about 10 years ago. Three of my military classmates at MIT walked on the moon during the decade following graduation. I was assigned to Goddard SPFC for two years after I graduated. So you have great opportunities ahead of you. While you are getting a special education at USAFA, remember that you are also leading a cloistered existence. I was once in charge of ROTC at a major university. A USAFA graduate I never met had a significant influence on me and one of my cadets.  His name is James Rice, class of ‘80. He was released from military prison a few years ago. While attending pilot training,he assaulted and injured one of my graduates. He was wearing a ski mask, but a few weeks later, Rice made another attack on a fellow student and was caught in the act of murdering the student. I understand there were assaults committed at USAFA during Rice’s tenure. His was the first class with females. I am surprised that your biology class never mentioned evolution since evolution is the basis of modern biology. My advice is not assume that you are automatically superior for attending an academy. Sadly, the grad of all the academies span the entire spectrum from outstanding to worthless. Good Luck!

#114248 by bigjimbo
“I believe that one can not be a Christian and believe that the bible is the literal inerrant word of god.”

- That is what being a “Christian” is. Do you base your opinion on any study? Research?

“The old testament advocates slewing those who mix fabrics, eat shellfish, or speak back to thier parents. The old testament describes a psychopathic, genocidal mean-spirited monster.”

Clearly, you have never read it and have no idea what you are talking about. Simply put, your summation is incorrect.

#114248 by bigjimbo on 11/17 at 11:14 pm: “I believe that one can not be a Christian and believe that the bible is the literal inerrant word of god. The new testament describes Jesus’ teaching on compassion and foregiveness. The old testament advocates slewing those who mix fabrics, eat shellfish, or speak back to thier parents. The old testament describes a psychopathic, genocidal mean-spirited monster....”

I’ll agree with that! So, since the old testament is based on the Torah, why continue to politically or militarily support Jews??? Who is the fool?!?!

#114176 by Nabih Ammari on 11/17 at 10:45 am; “...-The Persuasive Kindness of Jesus when he saved an
adulterous woman from being stoned to death by the
crowd.... “Ama Al-Yateema Fla Tunhar”. Translation: “But The Orphan;You Must Not Condemn/Reject”....”

For the first part, Jesus did not judge her. For the second, Jesus had also said, “As you do it (good or bad) to the least of these, so too do you do it to me.” Thus we are ALL harmed or benefitted eventually by the results of our actions.

Thank you again for your kind thoughts, Nabih! You see, America, the children of Israel would be safe in Nabih Ammari’s arms. Why, then, the need for weapons??? Is it not Israel who condemns......?!?!

I believe that one can not be a Christian and believe that the bible is the literal inerrant word of god. The new testament describes Jesus’ teaching on compassion and foregiveness. The old testament advocates slewing those who mix fabrics, eat shellfish, or speak back to thier parents. The old testament describes a psychopathic, genocidal mean-spirited monster.

# 113931; “We are a country that believes in religious freedoms...”
we are a country which claims to believe in religious freedoms, not quite the same as believing in them. i do not mistake this tout for the reality of things.
as you note, this article has elicited a protracted argument about whom is more holy than who. casuistry, semantics, nonsense and lies are intended to distract from the simplicity of the golden rule because there is no profit in the golden rule, or at least not enough profit. what is variously referred to as original sin or the human condition is neatly summed up by katherine ann porter in “ship of fools”. these are the ruminations of one disillusioned passenger;
“she had always believed so deeply that human beings wished only to be quiet and happy, each in his own way. but there was a spirit of evil in them that could not let each other be in peace. one man’s good must always crowd out another’s and one must always take his own good at another’s expense or so it seemed. god forgive us all.”
from memory. it’s been a while since i’ve read it. i do leave the house daily so i have reason to believe her intent survives any unintentional paraphrasing.
human beings are no more capable of piety than they are capable of flight- not because they are born bad but because they are not birds.
be a good neighbor, all else is commentary.

#113891 by Nabih Ammari on 11/16 at 12:09 am: “...Believing in God and the bible means believing in peace,love your neighbor and even love your enemy etc...”

Oh, I wish only.......!!! Sadly, proven to be NOT so.

The essential quality is not what you believe in as it is an external subject to each individual’s interpretation. Rather, it is your own thoughts and feelings - and what you actually do yourself.....

Thus, loving kindness is not to be found in any book but in peoples’ hearts. Some are unable to manifest this. WhY? - because they have not evolved spiritually........

Grant H., show me where I said Strauss was a “conservative.” His and other “neoconservatives” expouse a philosophy that is far closer to the philosophy expounded by Karl Schmidt, Hitler’s chief jurist.  I do not regard the hard-right movement which presently occupies the White House as “conservative” or even, as John Dean has characterized them, as “conservatives without conscience.” The word “fascist” would appear to be a far more apt and accurate a descriptor for Leo Strauss and his neocon followers, though the operative portion is not “neo” as in “new” but “con” as in “con-artists.”

I am intrigued, however, by your use of the word “vomit.” I cited the work of a renouned political scientist, Shadia B. Drury, whose academic examination of the Leo Strauss fathered neoconservative movement is regarded in most, but not all, academic circles as providing an insightful and profound analysis.

Aside from your confusion as to the difference between conservatives and neoconservatives, and your mistaken belief that I was critiquing the former, is there a substantive source for your use of the pejorative “vomit” or is “vomit” simply a word you like to pop off with whenever someone hits you with a thought your mind has never before processed.

To R. Harrel:  I can agree with you that every office has a sworn duty to the constitution and should disobey an unlawful order.  But, since the constitution expressly forbids any religious test for holding any federal office, your insistance that every officer must “answer to God Almighty” violates the very Constitution you say the officer took a solemn oath to uphold.  It’s called separation of church and state, and it is amazing how difficult it is to get those blinded by their faith to read and comprehend this fundamental secular tenet of our constitutional democracy.

I am an atheist who served in Vietnam.  I am certainly open to any suggestion that I might not have been completely true to the constitutional oath I took when I participated in a war many felt was illegal.  But I can’t accept the idea that I violated the oath I took to the constitution simply because I don’t believe in “your” God Almighty.

P.S.  I am living proof that the claim “there are no atheists in foxholes” is a lie.

rowman,

I was referring to several of your posts prior.  Am I supposed to be impressed that the you read C.S. Lewis?
Since I chose not to respond does not mean he does not exist.

You completely ignored Napoleon’s quote and as usual danced around onto a side show, blathering about his claim to fame and asked why I would use his quote. His quote is Relevant to the subject at hand, my hope that you would engage his quote, fell on the seemingly endless space under your hat.

Your real world would still be flat and “The Chronicles of Narnia” would be a true story?

That makes no sense Leefeller.

First, I did not attack his fame. It is true. Napoleon’s biggest influence in the military sphere was in the conduct of warfare. How exactly is that an attack? Seems a bit ironic that you would draw on the wisdom of one whose fame is largely attributed to war while at the same time, criticizing one who currently wages war.

Secondly, you seem to disregard the quotes from C.S Lewis – or are you saying he did not exist?

Finally, your “fairy tale” theory ignores hard evidence as noted in several posts prior.

“Missing the context of a conversation, seems to serve you well” – that must be a personal reflection of yours that you misdirected to me.

Missing the context of a conversation, seems to serve you well rowman.  Even if Napoleon was a drag queen, the quote is food for thought, your attack on his fame, shows at least you understand that he was a real person, but refuse to acknowledge the importance of the quote.  Quoting from real people should be grounds for solid debate, opposed to quotes from fairy tails.

Well, Leefeller, Napoleon’s observation was very close to that of Leo B. Strauss, the father of neoconservatism. 

As revealed by Shadia B. Drury, Strauss believed that “human beings are too evil to be expected to behave honorably unless they are in the grip of some lie or pious fraud about rewards and punishments in the afterlife.” Because truth is dangerous when made available to the masses, it must be left within the confines of an elite group of philosophers who would use religion in order to impose a “pious fraud” necessary to maintain order in society.  Strauss’s view, as advanced by disciple Alan Bloom, is that “education must inculcate the values of society as absolute and inviolable, while teaching the truth to a small elite intended to govern society indirectly through the influence it exerts on the powerful.”

As forcefuly noted by Drury, neoconservatism is a philosophy which is “eager to cultivate an elite that makes a virtue of lying and dissembling” and which perniciously creates “an elite that is not fit for power because it is neither wise nor good.  It is not wise because it cannot defend its beliefs before the tribunal of reason; it preaches to the converted.  It is not good because it is a manipulative elite that eschews the truth in favor of lies and deceptions, and because it exempts itself from the moral standards it imposes on others--and this is the road to tyranny.”

It is this calculated form of schizophrenia that explains why the neocons can tout the teachings of Jesus “the-meek-shall-inherit-the-earth” Christ even as they set about to bomb the Middle East into the stone ages.  Christianity is the pious fraud they use to lead the masses into the abyss but they know it doesn’t apply to them.

Napoleon? Who’s biggest influence in the military sphere was in the conduct of warfare. I would think that you would be opposed to such a man.

“Those who would most scornfully repudiate Christianity as a mere “opiate of the people” have a contempt for the rich, that is, for all mankind except the poor.”

“Reality, in fact, is always something you couldn’t have guessed. That’s one of the reasons I believe Christianity. It’s a religion you couldn’t have guessed.”

“A great many of those who ‘debunk’ traditional...values have in the background values of their own which they believe to be immune from the debunking process.”

“Atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning...”

“When you are arguing against Him you are arguing against the very power that makes you able to argue at all.”

All credited to C.S Lewis of course.

Folks,

My tenure in the US Air force was tulmutious, creative, challenging and hard.  Except for a very few B.S. NCO’s, and officers, it was a great experience!  I do remember the first Air Force Academy at Lowry AFB in 1956.  What a great feeling it was to meet these future leaders. Seems not so in today’s Air Force.

I loved the Air Force, but the chicken stuff,. . . well, you know!
This appended URL with a quote from the article is an important read. 
Seems not is all as it was, nor will ever be till . . . . ?

Cheers
Raymond
http://www.artflight.us

* * * * * * *
from . . .
http://www.truthdig.com/report/page2/20071107_the_canc er_from_within/

“ . . . These were some of my thoughts on the day my son had to decide whether or not to accept his appointment to the Air Force Academy.  It was a time in my life when fatherhood and truth were confronted with faux nationalism.  With tremendous courage and sadness my son declined his appointment and ended his dream—and my dream for him—to attend the Air Force Academy. Though deeply saddened, we were not sorry. . . “

Warm fuzzy comfort of a god is the perfect crutch for the ignorant.

“Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.”
~ Napoleon

Cyrena:
same G-d. They just put extra “rules” around Christianity. For instance, Jesus preached a one to one relationship (him and you). Catholics have a you and them and them and G-d relationship. The concept that you have to go to a catholic priest for confession is supported nowhere. Jesus is the high priest. He said “come to me”.  Not to them first. Just one example….

Purplewolf: Good thought but all you prove is something being created from something. Not something from nothing. Jim provides further insight.

G-d is the uncaused cause, the Alpha and the Omega.

Luis Cayetano:
I see you are full of hate and that blinds your perspective. I hope that whatever you believe in brings you peace and that one day, you can dialog with someone that has differing views.

Well, I agree with Nabih on this. Matter of fact, I’ve never heard it explained better.

• #113527 by Nabih Ammari “...God did not create man.On the contrary,Man created God, or rather the concept of God......

And so, it is. This is FAR more likely to be the real deal. And, it’s perfectly OK. I have no problems with this explanation at all. Makes perfectly good sense to me.

Now rowman, I know I’m sort of a ‘glutton for punishment” here, but what the heck. I needed a break anyway, from reading about all the religious violence that marked the creation of these United States. (actually, racism was the real cause of the violence, but they used the standard ‘religious’ ideology to make it acceptable to God, by first Satanizing the Native Americans, and then Christianizing them. Otherwise, they couldn’t be ‘human’)

So, since you said this:

• Catholicism introduces additional “books” to Christianity.  You must be careful of this because it alters Christianity at its core and led to the subjugation many of you refer to here so you cannot hold Catholicism up as a model of Christianity.

And, since you believe in God, can you tell me if the Catholics have a different God than everybody else? I’ve always been led to understand that if there is a God, there’s only ONE God. So, how does this all work out?

My agnostic thinking has always recognized a number of Prophets, and I count among them; Jesus the Christ, Mohammed, the Buddha, Mahatma Gandhi, and more recently, Martin Luther King, Jr. I’m sure there are others that just don’t come to mind right now. But, I always figured there was only ONE (non-human) God. So, how many do you think there are, and why wouldn’t the same one be in the Catholics as in anybody else?

Ernest, you’re right. Youth is wasted on the young. That’s why I occasionally threaten to take theirs away from them. Bill Cosby style. (It’s just a threat though - I’d never follow through with it)

Well, I agree with Nabih on this. Matter of fact, I’ve never heard it explained better.

• #113527 by Nabih Ammari “...God did not create man.On the contrary,Man created God, or rather the concept of God......

And so, it is. This is FAR more likely to be the real deal. And, it’s perfectly OK. I have no problems with this explanation at all. Makes perfectly good sense to me.

Now rowman, I know I’m sort of a ‘glutton for punishment” here, but what the heck. I needed a break anyway, from reading about all the religious violence that marked the creation of these United States. (actually, racism was the real cause of the violence, but they used the standard ‘religious’ ideology to make it acceptable to God, by first Satanizing the Native Americans, and then Christianizing them. Otherwise, they couldn’t be ‘human’)

So, since you said this:

• Catholicism introduces additional “books” to Christianity.  You must be careful of this because it alters Christianity at its core and led to the subjugation many of you refer to here so you cannot hold Catholicism up as a model of Christianity.

And, since you believe in God, can you tell me if the Catholics have a different God than everybody else? I’ve always been led to understand that if there is a God, there’s only ONE God. So, how does this all work out?

My agnostic thinking has always recognized a number of Prophets, and I count among them; Jesus the Christ, Mohammed, the Buddha, Mahatma Gandhi, and more recently, Martin Luther King, Jr. I’m sure there are others that just don’t come to mind right now. But, I always figured there was only ONE (non-human) God. So, how many do you think there are, and why wouldn’t the same one be in the Catholics as in anybody else?

Ernest, you’re right. Youth is wasted on the young. That’s why I occasionally threaten to take theirs away from them. Bill Cosby style.

#113632 by purplewolf on 11/14 at 5:53 pm: - Rowman # 113348: “Something cannot bring itself into existence.” Really. Then you explain to us how duckweed came into existence....... Take some of this water that started out as drinking water and put in under a microscope and check out all the life in there.Where did it come from as it wasn’t there to begin with....... This is called proof of evolution-something evolved or came into existence that was never there before or existed in that container to begin with. So saying something cannot bring itself into existence isn’t necessarily so....”

This is something which merely appeared within a known evolutionary framework (on the surface of this Earth), purplewolf, but that does not explain the creation of the Universe.

Where did God come from? Well, we are only a product of Its creation, so how can we ever know? It is impossible - like presuming that you can know more than your Creator, whatever That is!

#113527 by Nabih Ammari on 11/14 at 9:08 am: “...God did not create man.On the contrary,Man created
God,or rather the concept of God...... when the President of the US claims that he communicates with God,it is time to challenge such claim and demand WHOSE God???...”

Well, yes and no to the first part, Nabih Ammari, as there was a “creation” (the big bang) and then an “evolution” on Earth (and elsewhere?). Thus we are all part of the one Creation.

But GWB is more likely subject to possession like whats-her-name from The Exorcist and I bet hardly any of you can see it. So too was Hitler according to some who knew him.

#113647 by Jim on 11/14 at 7:54 pm: “You ask who caused God? Perhaps he is the singular cause...... To prove it, you would have to show something originate from a completely void source. No such source exists....”

Perhaps you were addressing me, Jim, and this is as broad a topic as we wish. Talking about the perfect singularity, all must ultimately come from One Source, as you assume.

Lets say that the big bang was the origination and manifestation of the first Light and darkness was the Original Potential (Yang + Yin). From then, space and matter were all created.

But we are also talking about more than three dimensions. More like seven - or multiple sets of dimensions. There is a place we all come from before we are born and a place we all go to after we die. Its there but we never seem to think about it much.

So the Force was what brought the original Creation into being through the big bang phenomenon. But the Source of that was the Original Cause, whatever that is - and It must be outside of or beyond its own material creation. That is a level we do not have any consciousness of......... to us it is unmanifest.

The cancer from within entails not only the proselytizing of a captive audience--young cadets--but the hypocrisy of the proselytizers. 

There is, of course, the infamous call for the assassination of Hugo Chavez by that man-of-the-cloth, the billionaire flim-flam man, er televangelist, Pat Robertson.  In an E-mail touting his new film, “The Assassination of Hugo,” Greg Palast presents an interesting take on it.

“Robertson has a tough time separating Church and Hate.  But when the vicious vicar declared it was time to take out the President of Venezuela, he was simply channeling the wishes of the Supreme Authority, Dick Cheney.”

Why take out Hugo?  Palast asked, rhetorically.

“The answer is right under Chavez’s feet.  Oil.  How much?  According to inside documents that just fell in my hands from the Department of Energy--LOTS of oil, five times the reserves of Saudi Arabia.”

For the Christo-fascists this clap trap about turning the other cheek is just food for the masses.  What they really worship is that black sticky substance.  That’s why they have to take out Chavez.  The man is standing between them and their real God.

Cyrena, youth is wasted on the young.

We seem to have conveniently digressed from the “cancer within” to a discussion of an arrangement of superstitions from the Abramic traditions, which at best have been described as a dreary mythical concoction.  Despite the pleas from the apologists the historical record does not support their major stories.

Acting as true believers their belief trumps reason and faith trumps facts.  By repeating the dogma loudly and in a different manner they attempt to make the scales fall from the eyes of others while they remain blind.

There is a real danger from this cancer when belief trumps reason and faith is over fact then the dark ages grow stronger.  Already through the lies told by the fundamentalists evolution is thought of as just another “false” religion from which people may be converted.  Undoubtedly many of us may hold other heretic beliefs.  When will “Christ’s Warriors” come for us that we may return to the “true faith?”

People have the right to their beliefs- but not the right to impose them on others.  When our constitutional rights are taken through a fascist movement in combination with religious zealots we have real problems temporal and philosophical (and probably legal too)!

Nabih: You’re welcome.

Doug: thanks for the comment about rowmans comment,I missed it.

Rowman # 113348: “Something cannot bring itself into existence.” Really. Then you explain to us how duckweed came into existence. If you do not know about this look into it. You start out with plain already sterilized drinking water and set it in a container, can be indoors or outdoors, add more sterile water as needed due to evaporation and after about a year you will observe these little floating green water plants covering the surface. They were not there to begin with, nor were they added, wait long enough and they will appear. Also diatoms will start long before the duckweed. Take some of this water that started out as drinking water and put in under a microscope and check out all the life in there.Where did it come from as it wasn’t there to begin with. This is called proof of evolution-something evolved or came into existence that was never there before or existed in that container to begin with. So saying something cannot bring itself into existence isn’t necessarily so.

Also where did God come from?

Earnest,

Yes one doest grow weary, the deluded provide nothing to hang a hat on.
So many times I see real topics being blindsided by shrills.

• #113425 by Ernest Canning
Careful now, Cyrena.  54 sounds young to me.  I can remember in the 60s when we said, “Don’t trust anyone over thirty.” Boy, were we naive!
Well Ernest, I think it probably ‘sounds’ a lot younger than it ‘feels’. But, that’s one of the areas where I allow myself to be deluded, since there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of choice. I’ve gotta fashion a whole new career. So, I’ll just keep pretending that it’s young. The kids say that I don’t ‘look’ my age – ouch! I think they intend it as a compliment, but I’m not pressing my luck to further question them on exactly how old/young they think I ‘look’.

Meantime, while I definitely don’t ‘miss’ my youth, and surely am not inclined to ‘go back’ in time, I’d give just about anything right now, for a slice of those ‘60’s. There’s no possible way we could have imagined then, what we would be living now. At least I couldn’t, and I have a fairly active imagination. Who would have thought we’d have gone this far backwards, after moving in a somewhat forwardly direction back then? How much progress has been undone in the past 7 years? More than I can bear to consider. It’s worse than just standing still and stagnant. It’s flippin’ going back in time!!! This worst sort of ‘regression’ imaginable.

To Mitch, Jack and Roy, all unregistered posters.  The next comment we see posted from any of you containing a modicum of substance will be the first.  Take all the shots you want, but until you have something of substance to offer, your numbers do nothing to alter rowman’s irrationality.

Don’t know who you work with Mitch, but if you have something of “substance” to add to the colloquy, I am all ears. 

It is not a matter of trying to push anyone down.  After a time, I simply grow bored with repetitious chants of religious dogma.  There are a large number of posters with whom I do not agree but with whom I have enjoyed intellectual dialogue.  Poor rowman, thoroughly brainwashed by the tenets of Christo-Fascism, is not one of them.

Ernest,
You have offered no solid reasoning, only attacks. That is not a trait indicative of the intellectual you profess to be. Quite opposite actually.

Best wishes to you. May your journey bring you peace.

I, for one, will not submit further responses to the poor deluded fool who goes by the name rowman.  His continued irrationality in the face of solid reasoning from numerous posters reflects that his mind is impervious to science or rationale thought processes.

I don’t want to sound like an intellectual snob, but his utter lack of logic makes further interaction with him less than intellectually stimulating.

Ernest:
It is ok to say you can’t answer the questions. There is no need to deflect or try to change subject. They are tough questions to address. Atheism crumbles when truly studied and applied. I know because I was one. In fact, it is the very point Douglas brought focus to that led me on the journey to where I am today. I stopped off at every major religion and “school of thought” with my book of questions ready to study. Only one answer fit and did not contradict itself. Christianity.
I say Again, you cannot lump all Christians in one bucket. Not all are republican, not all support Bush and most definitely, not all supported the war.

Cyrena:
I have never met someone I could not get along with and I am sure you would be no exception. Catholicism introduces additional “books” to Christianity.  You must be careful of this because it alters Christianity at its core and led to the subjugation many of you refer to here so you cannot hold Catholicism up as a model of Christianity. Stick to the core texts as they have been vetted. The “books” I allude to have been rejected.
The one question I have not heard is who chose the “New Testament” Christian writings and why? It is very valid and important to understand this and I will provide additional resources should anyone be interested.

RAE:
Much proof available, My G-d does meet this standard and I have provided some here. Archeological evidence is very tangible. It’s a matter of where you want to start.

Luis Cayetano:
There is much science that is real and valid. No where do I disagree with this. The “origins of man” is not a proven fact. Evolution supporters apply a scientific theory to explain it and that is fine with me – you can believe what you want to. A Christian applies the word of God to explain the origins of man. These are two different approaches.
If you assert that “evolution” is the only answer, you are stating that “creation” is wrong. In turn, you are forcing a religious position. Do you not see the hypocrisy in your position? Would you if the tables we turned?

Chalmers – I was making a point for the benefit of rowman and I quite agree, there is only now, and a succession of nows is what makes up one’s existence.  Because now is so slippery it is more than difficult to grab onto it, actually impossible.  And somehow there is a gossamer residue of our nows, persistence of memory, it is called, sort of like the overdrive in a car, and we remember nows that have slipped away and anticipate nows to come. And in this mess of nows we notice an objective world, and to continue our now we learn to negotiate it by participating with that objective world.  Carpe diem. 

So what can we do now about the evangelical slugs that have commandeered our Air Force?

Time for a cup of Leefeller’s coffee!

113354 by Tim on 11/13 at 2:18 pm: “Christianity is not the enemy, Christianity is not a cancer and Christianity has a place in the USA. I would be far more worried about Muslim recruits, Muslim scientists and Muslims in sensitive and strategic positions. Plus I am very concerned about the continued training in US tactics of Muslims in IRAQ, Bosnia and the PLO (& else where)...”

Interesting that you should mention Bosnia. The atrocities in the assembly of independent states once known as Yugoslavia was started by the Christians. It was consequent upon their ancient hatreds of the Turkish empire and earlier......

#113353 by Shenonymous on 11/13 at 2:13 pm: “Actually there is no now!  Just try to grab ahold of it and it slips right through your fingers as if, what? it doesn’t exist!  It is the case that either there is no now, or there is nothing else but nows, no past, no future....”

You just said it, Shenonymous, but you don’t seem to realize it, ha ha. There IS only “Now”. You can live only now...... you can only act in the &#