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Chris Hedges: I Don’t Believe in Atheists

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Posted on May 23, 2007
Chris Hedges
Truthdig / Todd Wilkinson

Chris Hedges reads from his essay at the Truthdig debate “Religion, Politics and the End of the World” on May 22, 2007. 

By Chris Hedges

(Page 3)

I also know from my time in the Muslim world that the vast majority of the some 1 billion Muslims on this planet—most of whom are not Arab—are moderate, detest the violence done in the name of their religion and look at the Pat Robertsons and Franklin Grahams, who demonize Muslims in the name of Christianity, with the same horror with which we look at Osama bin Laden or Hamas.  The Palestinian resistance movement took on a radical Islam coloring in the 1990s only when conditions in Gaza and the West Bank deteriorated and thrust people into profound hopelessness, despair and poverty—conditions similar to those that empowered the Christian right in our own country.  Before that the movement was decidedly secular.  I know that Muslim societies are shaped far more by national characteristics—an Iraqi has a culture and outlook on life that are quite different from an Indonesian’s—just as a French citizen, although a Catholic, is influenced far more by the traits of his culture. Islam has within it tiny, marginal groups that worship death, but nearly all suicide bombers come from one language group within the Muslim world, Arabic, which represents only 20 percent of Muslims.  I have seen the bodies—including the bodies of children—left in the wake of a suicide bombing attack in Jerusalem.  But I have also seen the frail, thin bodies of boys shot to death for sport by Israeli soldiers in the Gaza Strip.  Tell me the moral difference.  I fail to see one, especially as a father. 

Finally, let us not forget that the worst genocides and slaughters of the last century were perpetrated not by Muslims but Christians.  To someone who lived in Sarajevo during the Serbian siege of the city, Sam’s demonization of the Muslim world seems odd.  It was the Muslim-led government in Bosnia that practiced tolerance.  There were some 10,000 Serbs who remained in the city and fought alongside the Bosnia Muslims during the war.  The city’s Jewish community, dating back to 1492, was also loyal to the government.  And the worst atrocities of the war were blessed not by imams but Catholic and Serbian Orthodox priests.  Sam’s argument that atheists have a higher moral code is as specious as his attacks on Islam.  Does he forget Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler and Pol Pot?  These three alone filled the earth with more corpses in the last century than all of the world’s clerics combined. 

The danger is not Islam or Christianity or any other religion.  It is the human heart—the capacity we all have for evil.  All human institutions with a lust for power give their utopian visions divine sanction, whether this comes through the worship of God, destiny, historical inevitability, the master race, a worker’s paradise, fraternite-egalite-liberte or the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Religion is often a convenient vehicle for this blood lust.  Religious institutions often sanctify genocide, but this says more about us, about the nature of human institutions and the darkest human yearnings, than it does about religion.  This is the greatest failing of Sam’s book.  He externalizes evil.  And when you externalize evil, all tools, including violence and torture, become legitimate to eradicate an evil that is outside of you.  This worldview—one also adopted by the Christian right—is dangerous, for if we fail to acknowledge our own capacity for evil it will grow unchecked and unheeded.  It is, in essence, the call to live the unexamined life. 

This externalization of evil is what allows Sam to endorse torture.  He, of course, deludes himself into believing that it is reason that requires us to waterboard detainees in the physical and moral black holes we have set up to make them disappear.  He quotes Alan Dershowitz, not only to reassure us that the Israelis treat Palestinians—400 of whom they have killed in Gaza over the past few months—humanely, but to trot out the absurd notion of a ticking time bomb, the idea that we know a terrorist has planted a large bomb in the center of the city and we must torture him, or in the glib phrase of Harris, we must dust off “a strappado” and expose “this unpleasant fellow to a suasion of bygone times” (P. 193).

I guess this reference to torture is amusing if you have spent your life encased in the protected world of the university.  As someone who was captured and held for over a week by the Iraqi Republican Guard during the 1991 Shiite uprising in Basra and then turned over for my final 24 hours to the Iraqi secret police—who my captors openly expected to execute me—I find this glib talk of physical abuse repugnant.  Dershowitz and Harris cannot give us a legal or historical precedent where such a case as they describe actually happened.  But this is not the point; the point is to endow themselves with the moral right to abuse others in the name of their particular version of goodness.  This is done in the name of reason.  It is done in the name of a false god, an idol.  And this god—if you want it named—is the god of death, or as Freud stated, Thanatos, the death instinct, the impulse that works toward the annihilation of all living things, including ourselves. For once you torture, done in the name of reason, done to make us safe, you unleash sadists and killers.  You consign some human beings to moral oblivion.  You become no better than those you oppose.

The danger of Sam’s simplistic worldview is that it does what fundamentalists do: It creates the illusion of a binary world of us and them, of reason versus irrationality, of the forces of light battling the forces of darkness.  And once you set up this world you are permitted to view as justified military intervention, brutal occupation and even torture, anything, in short, that will subdue what is defined as irrational and dangerous.  All this is done in the name of reason, in the name of his god, which looks, like all idols, an awful lot like Sam Harris. 

“Necessity,” William Pitt wrote, “is the plea for every infringement of human freedom.”

Sam ends his book with a chapter that can best be described as Buddhism light. His spirituality, which apparently includes life after death and telepathy, fuels our narcissistic obsession with our individual unconscious. I am not against solitude or meditation, but I support it only when it feeds the moral life rather than serves as an excuse to avoid moral commitment. The quest for personal fulfillment can become an excuse for the individual to negate his or her responsibilities as a citizen, as a member of a wider community.  Sam’s religion—for Sam in an odd way tries at the end of his book to create one—is in tune with this narcissism.  His idealized version of Buddhism is part of his inability to see that it too has been used to feed the lusts of warriors and killers, it too has been hijacked in the name of radical evil.  Buddhist Shinto warrior cults justified and absolved those who carried out the worst atrocities committed by the Japanese in Nanjing.  By the end of World War II Buddhist and Shinto priests recruited and indoctrinated kamikaze (divine wind) pilots in the name of another god.  It is an old story.  It is not the evil of religion, but the inherent capacity for evil of humankind.

The point of religion, authentic religion, is that it is not, in the end, about us.  It is about the other, about the stranger lying beaten and robbed on the side of the road, about the poor, the outcasts, the marginalized, the sick, the destitute, about those who are being abused and beaten in cells in Guantanamo and a host of other secret locations, about what we do to gays and lesbians in this country, what we do to the 47 million Americans without health insurance, the illegal immigrants who live among us without rights or protection, their suffering as invisible as the suffering of the mentally ill we have relegated to heating grates or prison cells.  It is about them.

We have forgotten who we were meant to be, who we were created to be, because we have forgotten that we find God not in ourselves, finally, but in our care for our neighbor, in the stranger, including those outside the nation and the faith.  The religious life is not designed to make you happy, or safe or content; it is not designed to make you whole or complete, to free you from anxieties and fear; it is designed to save you from yourself, to make possible human community, to lead you to understand that the greatest force in life is not power or reason but love.

As Reinhold Niebuhr wrote:

Nothing worth doing is completed in our lifetime,
Therefore, we are saved by hope.
Nothing true or beautiful or good makes complete sense in any immediate context of history;
Therefore, we are saved by faith.
Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone.
Therefore, we are saved by love.
No virtuous act is quite as virtuous from the standpoint of our friend or foe as from our own;
Therefore, we are saved by the final form of love which is forgiveness.

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Comment Pages: «8 9 10 11

By Ken from Pasadena, May 24, 2007 at 2:16 am #
(2 comments total)

Sorry about the typos in my original message: it should be “how much smarter” instead of “has much smarter” in item #1, and “as you *were* rebutting Sam” in item #3. That’s what I get for posting something at 2:00 am after a very long day! smile

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By Ken from Pasadena, May 24, 2007 at 2:03 am #
(2 comments total)

I was in the audience last night as well, and I have some observations for Chris, many of which are based on what he said last night, as well as on on the essay posted above:

1. Chris, if your intention was to show the audience has much smarter you THINK you are than everyone else, you succeeded. Your introductory remarks were extremely difficult to understand, until approximately the last few minutes when you finally started to make some valid points. I am not an unintelligent person, but I always appreciate direct communication, something Sam Harris excels in. Your comments, as reflected above, are didactic, unnecessarily circuitous, and on occasion so full of yourself as to be laughable.

At one point last night you were asked a direct question about your religious beliefs, and instead of a direct answer you once again launched into a discussion of “tribalism.” I would suggest you climb down from the Ivory Tower and learn to answer questions more clearly.

2. Your comments later in the debate about the honor killngs of women, based on your essay as quoted above, were SERIOUSLY flawed. You maintain it’s the evil in people’s hearts—and sometimes political manipulation—and not religious beliefs that gives rise to events like this, and that’s bad enough. But then you have the gall to claim honor killings of women in the Middle East is “not really that prevalent.” Are you KIDDING? Just today, the Chicago Tribune had a very thorough article on the horrors women in Iraq are facing, including an ever-increasing amount of honor killings, and how widespread they are. And that it is the result of RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE, not “evil.” Here’s the link: http://tinyurl.com/2mss3f

Even TruthDig itself has articles on this today! You referred several times to Sam about how much time you spent working and living in the Middle East, as if to say one can’t have a valid opinion on the subject unless one has actually lived there (which is also patently ridiculous). Apparently you didn’t see enough of what is really going on in that country, and other Middle-Eastern countries, or—more likely—you never actually talked to any of the women living there. Perhaps you weren’t even allowed to.

3. On a slightly different subject: where did you learn grammar? At one point last night—as you rebutting Sam—you said “irregardless”! I don’t know if you heard the gasp from the audience, but I did. Is that what a Harvard education is worth these days? Speaking of the debate, you could learn something from Sam: he looked at the audience whenever he spoke, while you looked only at Sam when you spoke from the chair.

4. As to the chair vs. the podium, why did you have to use notes and literally read the essay you wrote to the audience? Did you not have enough time to properly prepare for this debate? Sam was secure enough in the knowledge of his material to speak without the aid of notes—why couldn’t you?

5. You once again trotted out the canard about Islam being the religion of peace, not Jihad. I am so tired of hearing this! If your statement is really true, who is telling the Islamic fundamentalists this? THEY are the ones who need to hear it, not us in the West. But no one in the Islamic world will speak this out loud, for fear of severe reprisal, which is why Sam Harris says religious moderates are more dangerous than fundamentalists, and also why too much tolerance of medieval and bizarre religious beliefs is now dangerous. You completely mis-represented Sam’s positions on these points last night, something you did often.

5. Finally, I—as well as many audience members around me—was shocked at how many times you actually AGREED with points that Sam Harris made, but felt you had to express the same sentiments in different (and denser) verbiage. Several times during your attempt to counter Sam, I heard people crying out “but that’s what he just said!”

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By manonfyre, May 24, 2007 at 1:34 am #
(11 comments total)

better yet, how about, Ken Wilber’s Summary of Spiral Dynamics.

brilliant!

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By manonfyre, May 24, 2007 at 1:27 am #
(11 comments total)

i commend to mr. hedges, mr. harris, and truthdig readers the work of Ken Wilber; and, also, a very relevant field of thought to the subject of this debate, Spiral Dynamics.

as a jumping off place, perhaps, Which Level of God Do You Believe In?; or maybe, A Spirituality that Transforms, by mr. wilber.  any quick web search can get you to his website, and so much more.

regarding Spiral Dynamics, perhaps, Colors of Thinking, or, google away!

looking forward to reading more of this debate.  deep thanks to chris, to sam, and to truthdig!

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By valupak, May 24, 2007 at 1:23 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

I don’t believe Hedges is a Christian. He is a Humanist. He may have reinforced his humanist beliefs with passages from the Bible, but he appears to follow little to none of the non humanist edicts and passages in the Bible. He could just as easily call himself a Muslim or a Hindu while quoting the humanist-supporting passages from the Koran or the Vedas. Perhaps Hedges will realize this someday.

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By Mark, May 23, 2007 at 10:44 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Mike Mid-City..I have a question for him with respect to his last question.  So, I guess he believes in god.  And asks, what was there before the big bang.  This is no help to the theist.  I ask him then, who designed the designer.  It’s the same problem.

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By frustrated, May 23, 2007 at 9:44 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

This was such silly obscurantism. I was in the audience, you can have no idea how long it went on until you see the video. Poor Robert Scheer looked like he was gonna lose it in the last ten minutes, couldn’t sit still. Sam, for whom I have more respect now than ever, stayed so calm, even in the face of being called a racist by Hedges. It really was a shameless display.

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By Sportin' Life, May 23, 2007 at 9:16 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

I’m an atheist who is exceedingly grateful to Sam Harris for throwing down the gauntlet with End of Faith, but I do agree with some of what Hedges has to say.  At least, I can find common ground if I overlook the questionable claims made for monotheism--e.g. that it “created the individual”, pffft--and some of the other off-putting stuff.

I believe in building a moral community, cultivating altruism, creating meaning in life, valuing each and every person, and all of the same values that Hedges appears to--including the rejection of torture.

But here’s the problem: “God is the name we give to our belief that life has meaning, one that transcends the world’s chaos, randomness and cruelty.” Huh?  How about if we give a different name to that belief--since the word “God” is already used for something else? Specifically, for the anthropomorphic deity which Hedges freely admits is a relic of superstition.

I hope Hedges will consider this point: using an idiosyncratic definition of the word “God”, pretending that that definition is widely shared, and ignoring the horrible things happening in our world right now due to the actions of people in thrall to a much different (and more prevalent) definition of the same word--all of that is exactly the kind of thing that gets so many of us frustrated with the religious left.  Doesn’t such sloppiness give away the game to the fundamentalists and the fanatics?  Frankly, they have much more consistent, convincing, and historically justified definitions across the board when it comes to religious vocabulary.

This column could be the beginning of a great and healthy discussion of human ethics, but honesty and clarity--in short, rationality--is a critically necessary component of that discussion.  It doesn’t seem rational to me to give up a traditional religious concept, yet so desperately cling to the word that refers to it.  At the very least, doing so is bound to create unnecessary confusion and opportunity for mischief.

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By Ga, May 23, 2007 at 8:38 pm #
(178 comments total)

Comment #72120 by Mike Mid-City:

“Religion doesn’t demand violence, men who misunderstand it do.”

Oh please! The Bible demands violence for many things. We always debate this, don’t we? For 2,000 years!

If we have been “misunderstanding” religion for 2,000 years, how can you possibly profess to be one of those who really know what (your) religion means?

Religion is delusion. Supported by circular logic. The direct cause of almost ALL bloodshed for the last 2,000 years. The cause of the suppression of science and reason for the last 2,000 years!

You are so wrong. So, so, wrong.

Unfortunately, you know not what you do.

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By Ga, May 23, 2007 at 8:29 pm #
(178 comments total)

Religion can cause otherwise good people to kill in its name. This is a well established fact of Christianity as well as Islam.

Atheism, not a religion, but a lack of religion, does not provide a doctrine that can be used to cause otherwise good people to kill in its name.

I am so sick of people saying that the Bible is the true word of God.

When someone mentions the Bible, ask them, “What version?” If they can’t answer that question then they profess a profound ignorance and admit that they are blind adherents to a book simply and only because someone told them to believe in it. (Actually, the book basically tells its readers that they should “just believe.” How convienent!)

Ever hear of Adam’s other wife?

And another thing. If you do believe in the Bible, your biggest fault is that you (most likely) want to deprive all others from their beliefs!

All religious fundamentalists—including “Christians”—suck.

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By Kellina, May 23, 2007 at 8:08 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Kudos to Akira_Maritias (comment #72111) - despite being ill, you made many excellent points. I like the purple-bird analogy. (Kind of like Bertie Russell’s flying teapot orbiting the earth.)

Atheists are a-theists. 1) They don’t believe in a god. Atheism is no more a religion than a-astrology. (If you don’t believe in astrology, you are a-astrology.)

2) There are thousands of gods; you don’t believe in any of them except your one god, right? So that makes you an atheist about one less religion than I am. You are an atheist with respect to every other god ever worshipped.

Being an atheist just means you don’t feel that there is enough (or any) compelling evidence to endorse the concept of a god. It doesn’t mean that you lack morals or have any particular character structure or endorse any particular values. About 90% of the members of the National Academy of Sciences are atheists.

Personally, I wouldn’t want to believe in a (Christian) god who demanded my unquestionning faith and obedience and belief in him/her without which I would burn in hell, tortured for eternity. Why the hell would God have given us brains if we weren’t supposed to use them? Without the concept of hell, I’m sure that more Christians would start to question their faith.

There’s plenty of psychological evidence that how people picture their god/savior has more to do with how their parents treated them (harsh vs. loving) and their residual attachment needs in the case of rejecting parents. “Belief in a just world” probably also plays a large role. We want to believe that there is order in the world; that if life on earth is unfair, that things will be rectified in the hereafter. Good wins out in the end. It’s comforting, in other words, like a proper fairy tale.

Unfortunately, all these religious assumptions can wreak plenty of mischief, death, destruction, guilt, sexual abuse (due to repressing ordinary human desire), etc. Not to mention the fact that whomever you are relying on to interpret “god” for you—has his/her own agenda.

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By Dr. Knowitall, PhD, PhD, May 23, 2007 at 7:59 pm #
(564 comments total)

One thing certain about keeping discussions about religion/atheism going it that there must be a lot of money to be made from it.  There certainly are no answers.  Now, I’m gonna pass the collection plate.

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By archeon of thrace, May 23, 2007 at 7:51 pm #
(561 comments total)

Atheism is not a religion.

Saying “I don’t believe in god” is not the same as saying “I believe there is no god”.  Atheism is not “against” religion, that would be anti-theism.  I am an atheist, I don’t believe in god, or a god.  Do I think that a god or gods couldn’t or can’t exist? No that is not what I think.  That the arguments for the existance of god, and the arguments that claim if god exists I must worship him/it/her are weak, baseless, illogical and go agains reason is what I think.  Note carefully pro-theists that to say “this is what I think” is a universe apart from “this is what I believe”.

Atheism is not a religion, there is not Church of Atheism.  There are no Atheist Saints.  Atheism has no prophets.

Science is also not a religion, and it like atheism does not rely on “faith” to blissfully not answer the question “why?”.  For religion the answer to this is “god”, but “where” and “why” is god?  I find more satisfaction in “because” than “god”.

The theology of god allows for this kind of convoluted illogicality:  “God spoke to me and said: I do not exist”.  Thus god would not exist.  God being allpowerfull means he can do anything - including willing himself into nonexistance.  Yet because once he does not exist he cannot again will himself into existance (the theology states that nothing can come from nothing), he is not allpowerfull, and if he is not allpowerfull he is not god.  So if he is not allpowerfull and not god why worship him?

Faithies answere this: can god create a stone that is too heavy for him to lift?

Or: can god change history?

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By syshax, May 23, 2007 at 7:51 pm #
(1 comments total)

well his version of religion isn’t really religion

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By Mark Smith, May 23, 2007 at 7:12 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

-----------------
#72121 by Jacks on 5/23 at 6:24 pm
(6 comments total)

“Atheism itself is a religion, as it believes in something that cannot be proven true or untrue: there is no God(s).”
-----------------

Jacks, you might change your mind about atheism being a religion if you just look it up in a dictionary.  Atheism has no dogma, no doctrine, and is thus based on and open to evidence - and in fact, embraces new evidence.  Religion starts with dogma and tries to refute new evidence or just make it fit the doctrine. That’s a very big difference.

-cheers

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By Jacks, May 23, 2007 at 6:24 pm #
(67 comments total)

Atheism itself is a religion, as it believes in something that cannot be proven true or untrue: there is no God(s).

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By Leefeller, May 23, 2007 at 6:17 pm #
(1233 comments total)

Is this the same God that told Bush to go to war? This has been going on for ever, “Why I Am Not A Christian” by Bertrand Russell covers the bases quite well.

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By Akira_Maritias, May 23, 2007 at 6:06 pm #
(521 comments total)

“God is a human concept.  God is the name we give to our belief that life has meaning, one that transcends the world’s chaos, randomness and cruelty.  To argue about whether God exists or does not exist is futile.  The question is not whether God exists.  The question is whether we concern ourselves with, or are utterly indifferent to, the sanctity and ultimate transcendence of human existence.”

You know what’s sad? People read this and believe that it strengthens their faith.

For starters, nice title. “I don’t believe in atheists”. Good, good. In a sense, you don’t believe in someone that doesn’t believe in something. Interesting.

Second, this quoted chunk disturbed me quite a bit. You don’t seem to notice that a load of people have chosen to kill in the name of this wonderful idea. This nice thing that you complain has been twisted...isn’t nice. Actions speak loudly. No matter how many times the preacher says “God is good”, if he is strapping a bomb to his chest to do “God’s work” then it isn’t a good argument. This human idea has caused a good deal of suffering, and people are greatly concerned with pleasing this idea.

You can claim that God is really good, but it does not make it true. For starters, it is probably true that you have never physically seen, met, or talked to this God. You therefore don’t know if this God made us because he loved us, or if he did it because he loves to watch suffering. Secondly, the concept of “God”, being a human concept, is flawed. God is considered all knowing and all powerful without once touching us or our plane of existence. If I argued that a purple bird follows me and gives me chocolate that no one else can see, people would think I was nuts. But if I said that God was always with me bringing me joy, people would smile and be happy for me.

Do you see the irony? Religion is disturbing; it demands obedience and violence. God has laws dictated in these books. If religion had never existed, God would not be a concept at all.

Think about it. As for me, I can’t think so well. I don’t even know if I made any sense...I’m a wee bit ill right now.

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