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Without a Debt Deal, Obama Can Make the Rich Pay

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Posted on Jul 29, 2011
AP / Pablo Martinez Monsivais

By Moshe Adler

(Page 2)

If the Taft-Hartley law is detrimental to us as workers, the patent law is detrimental to us as consumers. While the Sherman Act was meant to take away the right of corporations to monopolize, the patent laws have not only returned this right, the government now enforces corporate monopoly power. The patent law is the reason that health care is so expensive that it is a major cause of the deficit, and that millions of people around the world die because they cannot afford drugs that cost little to produce and are often developed by government employees or with government financing. The patent law is also the reason that Monsanto, the agriculture giant, can sow despair and suicide among farmers around the world, with the most notorious example being the Green Revolution in India, because the law prevents them from growing their own seeds once they have bought seeds from Monsanto.

Does innovation require patent protection? George Stigler, the Nobel Prize-winning economist, researched this question and concluded that historically there were just as many innovations before patent protection as after. Stigler believed that all patents do is close entry to an industry without any benefits to society at all. What is beyond dispute, however, is that by granting a patent, the government confers on the recipient monopoly power. What is the government asking for in return? How is the government protecting consumers against the monopoly that it creates? The granting of a patent should involve the setting of a maximum price, and this should be what Democrats demand. If an agreement is not reached and the deficit is unfunded, the president should stop funding the enforcement for patents that are older than five years. This would preserve the incentive to innovate—if innovation even requires it—while lowering prices substantially on millions of products in the marketplace. With lower prices, workers will be in a better position to absorb cuts in the income security programs if these are made.

In the debate about the proper size of government, an agreement should be easy to reach: If the government stops serving the interests of the rich, the rest of us will not need to rely on it to dress the wounds that it inflicts.

Moshe Adler teaches economics at Columbia University and at the Harry Van Arsdale Center for Labor Studies at Empire State College. He is the author of “Economics for the Rest of Us: Debunking the Science That Makes Life Dismal” (The New Press, 2010).

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By Lew Ciefer, August 8, 2011 at 12:10 pm Link to this comment

By PH on Vacation, August 7 at 5:14 pm

Sorry to hear of your impoverishment, right now I’m on the top floor of the Holiday Inn Ocean front drinking a Kettle 1 Bloody Mary.  I soon hope to go out with my kids and eat some oysters and crabs and come back tonight and do some surf fishing.

I can give a rats ass about muslims, jews and christians but draw the line at U.S. publically funded nation state governments like Israel who defy world opinion and opress other peoples, hell I condemn our own government for doing it and will be very vocal in stating it, both at the voting booth and at forums like truthdig.

Apoligists as yourself should go out and look for some spare tires.  I call it divine justice.

I’m glad to hear that you are on vacation, doing well, and enjoying life with the family P.H. on vacation. I hope you’re taking loads of photos and videos because—and this has to do with the actual theme of the article—when this administration, under the guise of making the undefined ‘rich’ pay their indefinable ‘fair share’, gets through raising your and other hard-working Americans’ taxes you’re not going to be able to afford another vacation for a very long time. And that distress that you’re going to feel in your anus won’t be hemorrhoidal pain and itch. Obamageddon is here!

I too couldn’t give a rat’s behind about Jews, Christians and Muslims if they could just manage to leave the rest of us in peace. Like commies and socialists they are a royal pain in the derriere. And had you bothered to ask or read some of my comments on other threads you’d have learned that I feel ALL foreign aid should be immediately discontinued and that all those losers out in the world should do as you and I do ... learn to fend for themselves. I do find it a little odd that you didn’t mention beggars like Pakistan and the non-state of the Palestinians both of whom constantly demean the U.S. on one hand while holding out their beggars’ cups with the other. As for ‘world opinion’ ... it’s indefinable and who cares what the rest of the world opines?

The ‘voting booth’ is an illusion. You’re wasting your time. The system is rigged in such a way that you are given only the choice of heads or tails. It’s the same coin and it is in Wall Street’s pocket. The same pocket that the floppy-eared, high-in-melanoma Panjandrum, the Congress, and the S.C. live in. In the word of America’s now deceased Seer, George Carlin: ‘They’ve gotcha by the balls!’

Are you so delusional that you actually believe you’ll find a great leader through elections? I’m old, not well, and about destitute, so I’m here enjoying one of the few avenues of entertainment left to me. You’re pissing away your life thinking you’re going to change the world posting on Truthdig or any other such venue.

I’m not an apologist; quite the opposite.

Holiday Inn? So you’re blue-collar, lower middle class. Keep working hard and perhaps you’ll advance and one day be able to afford at least a 4, and if you save a 5, star hotel of repute.

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By PH on Vacation, August 7, 2011 at 5:14 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

ardee,

I agree with your take on the turboscroll with malcontents as Lew and GRYM.  We have had our disputes over these many years but I agree with most of your points and this is one of them.

Lew,

Sorry to hear of your impoverishment, right now I’m on the top floor of the Holiday Inn Ocean front drinking a Kettle 1 Bloody Mary.  I soon hope to go out with my kids and eat some oysters and crabs and come back tonight and do some surf fishing.

I can give a rats ass about muslims, jews and christians but draw the line at U.S. publically funded nation state governments like Israel who defy world opinion and opress other peoples, hell I condemn our own government for doing it and will be very vocal in stating it, both at the voting booth and at forums like truthdig.

Apoligists as yourself should go out and look for some spare tires.  I call it divine justice.

Cheers!

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By Lew Ciefer, August 6, 2011 at 4:57 pm Link to this comment

By stan van houcke, August 5 at 12:03 pm

well ciefer, in projecting your antisemitism on muslims in general and arabs in
particular the answer to this question you gave yourself by stating:

‘The Jews are there to stay P.H. deal with it.’

so, ‘the arabs are here to stay lew ciefer. deal with it.’’

I’ll cede this to you Stan, you string words together that lend one to believe that you just may be the most conspicuously compassionate individual in Europe—well at least for those that you view as too stupid to fend for themselves and who cannot exist without your divine guiding and protective hands. Really doesn’t speak well of your view of all those favored minorities du jour Stan.

I imagine that it gets a bit uncomfortable after a while on that cross, does it not? Do you ever climb down for a whine and cheese break?

Are you so deluded that you think because you label someone that that automatically makes it so? Rhetorical question, Stan…

I am dealing with it by demonstrating that contrary to you and your ilk’s deceit and subversion that when given an opportunity their people seek and find succor in the West by the multimillions. The Arabs aren’t the problem—it’s arrogant White enablers living in Ivory Towers and the myrmidons in their mother’s basements. 

By stan van houcke, August 5 at 12:03 pm

stop your stereotyping, and fearmongering. you must know better than anyone
else what the inevitable result is of stigmatizing a whole group of people, for
the simple fact is that your familyname originates from the heartland of the
german speaking world where the nazi-hatred first raised its head.

You’re the only one stereotyping people. Even then it’s wrong because you group everything you’ve been told you can’t stand and make Reich-wing soup. Your momma should limit the hours you spend watching the History Channel.

You’re the one fear-mongering; fear of the Empire, fear of the dollar, fear of the deficit and discontinued handouts to beggar nations, fear of Nazis, fear of schools and hot lunches and health care and how the world views America. For a supposed European you surely do exhibit one hell of a lot of conspicuous compassion for America. What part of Europe do you hail? The People’s Republic of Berkeley?

Let’s see if I understand what you’ve just indirectly claimed…that the origin of one’s family name makes one guilty by association ... okay.

Great JuJu of the mountain help us.

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By Lew Ciefer, August 6, 2011 at 4:52 pm Link to this comment

By stan van houcke, August 5 at 12:03 pm

i quote the man who hates muslims so much that he felt the urge to pose on this website the following question:
‘why do Western nations continue to allow them to enter?’

That’s called quote mining Stan. A mischaracterization of my words.

The question—in its entirety—is not anti-Semitic or racists. I’ll explain since it obviously went completely over your head as well as a few others. You’re going to have to put forth some effort to understand this Stan because it’s obvious that perspicacity and the ability to understand and recognize subtlety is not your strong suit. 

The question calls into question the constant Whine (criticism) we mentally stable in the West hear, incessantly, from the West-hating, mostly White, enlightened enablers about how capitalism, white people not of their ilk, Western liberalism and, of course, America, are the root of all evil in the world since Jehovah—the Jewish god—created the universe. We are also subjected to the constant and incessant declarations of how all other cultures are far superior to Western libertarian culture and that all the different peoples of those many cultures, societies, nations and states are far more virtuous than all White folk, except for, of course, the enlightened White Masters in those guarded Ivory Towers who, like their god—Vladimir—before them, look down on the “menshevik” determined—like Vladimir—to right all the world’s wrongs as they see them. And they don’t give a damn how many millions they have to murder and oppress in order to accomplish their nightmarish Utopia.

It also addresses the criticism and denigration of Western Culture—especially anti-American—by Islamic theocrats and crazed fundamentalists like the now defunct Ayatollah Khomeini of the Islamic Republic of Iran who used the expression ‘the Great Satan’ thrashing America and the American people.

The premise is simple and legitimate Stan. The question exposes the hypocrisy of the Left’s neo-Marxist class warfare—multiculturalism and PC—and that of fringe elements in the Islamic world. If life on this rock were as the Left and the West-hating Islamists would have us believe there would not be the flood of immigration from primarily Asian, Middle Eastern and African continent Islamic states to any and all Western nations that allow them to enter. Humans do not migrate from paradises to hell holes Stan. And that is what you and those of your ilk find offensive about the question. It exposes your hypocrisy and deceit.

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By Lew Ciefer, August 6, 2011 at 4:49 pm Link to this comment

By PatrickHenry, August 5 at 11:56 am

The only one on this forum bringing up hatred of ‘Jews’ is you.
Israel is a state, not a religion or ethnicity, in fact 25% of the people who live there are not Jewish at all.  I find it amusing your attempt to link the two, a popular but increasingly unsucessful hasbara ploy.  What’s next in your repertoire, calling other posters anti-semites, holocaust deniers because they dissed your dear Israel.  If you love it go to live there preferably on the West Bank in one of those ‘settler’ kibbutz.  You would fit right in, that is if you don’t live there already.

Yes, Patrick I have brought attention to the constant stream of anti-Jewish, anti-Israel, anti-Zionist America-hating bigotry of one poster. 

You’ve toned down the ad hominem and reverted to straw man arguments. I never said to indicate that I was of the opinion that Israel was anything but a state. The religion is Judaism. As for the ethnicity ... a Jew can be of any ethnicity. And they are. I’m a Jew! As well as a Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, New Ager, Wiccan, Rastafarian,  Mormon, Taoist, Neo-pagan, Pastafarian, Voodooist, and a host of others, non-believer. My motto is if you’ve got a god and religion and it can get me some of those special ‘rights’ that the State extends to some but not all ... I’m in!

That’s why I’m a fighter for White Rights. We’re the minority because ‘people of color’ far outnumber us and it’s well past time we get some special ‘rights’ too. That’s what happens when you trashcan equality under the law and institute Animal Farm commie/socialist neo-class warfare (multiculturalism and political correctness) ideology.

What has 25% of Israel’s population not being Jewish got to do with anything?

It’s not my dear Israel P.H., it’s theirs.

“If you love it why don’t you go live there?” Did you really type that? That’s soooooooo Depeche Mode…

I ‘don’t go live there’ because my 1977 Winnebago Chieftain—that’s my home—long ago had its wheels removed and was set on blocks and tied down so tornadoes wouldn’t blow it away. I haven’t even started the engine in more than 10 years so I don’t think it would make the trip even if I were able to afford to purchase new wheels and tires. Also, I don’t like those hairstyles with the ponytails on the sides of the head. I keep my hair cut like in boot camp; white sidewalls (there’s nothing left up top). I do enjoy bagels though. But I don’t have to go to Israel to buy one. They sell them at “Mahout’s Fast Stop” about 5 miles from here. (Mahout is a friend of mine and asked me to mention his store so he could say he’s gone national with his advertising.)


Thanks P.H. but I don’t recall ever asking permission from you to read a book or anything else.

Well, Taibbi has written several books, a great essay on Godlman Sachs and pegged Truthers. He’s even been on T.V. and his articles have appeared on the HuffyPuffy. And if you didn’t know, being on the T.V and the HuffyPuffy is a big deal in Lefty World.

What have you done with your life P.H.? Aren’t you here with me, arguing back and forth about insignificant bullshit that neither you nor I can change? I’d bet Matt Taibbi will probably spend more money enjoying his weekend than you and I have in the bank. Well, you have in the bank. I don’t have a bank account because I’ve no money. And that’s not bullshit.

We’ve finally found one point of agreement P.H. I agree that Taibbi ‘wouldn’t know the ‘truth’ if it bit him in the ass’ ... of course ... I’m referring to Truther truth ... which isn’t!

What’s a hasbara?

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By ardee, August 6, 2011 at 5:27 am Link to this comment

the thing is, you can do both, react and still continue the debate.

Well, stan van houcke,  I have, to date, seen much evidence of ruined threads, sidetracked conversations, lost ideas and the smothering of necessary discussions all due to those who feel it necessary to respond to those whose purpose is to end certain discussions, stop in its tracks certain trendings, and smother discourse that goes against their own personal agenda.

It is not just these two who engage in such, not by any means. I offer the perusal of many threads where discussions as to the need for other than voting Democratic Party is quite quickly sidetracked by longish and off topic posts by the usual source of blind loyalty to that particular party.

If I thought that responses to the agitators, regardless of their own agenda, could be effective I would have continued to respond as I had in the past. But the evidence seems clear enough to me, those responses, and their provoking the slimers to further nonsensical, shallow posts with only one purpose in mind; to further provoke and cause testosterone and adrenaline fueled responses.

I suggest that, should the forum simply ignore them they would be gone soon enough. Perhaps those among them with an actual brain might even respond to isolation by attempting honest debate, as far fetched as that might seem.

Again, this is not a restriction on free speech, only a suggestion that response to some is a waste of time, space and is , worst of all, counter productive.

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By stan van houcke, August 6, 2011 at 1:30 am Link to this comment

ardee is right to bring up this question:

‘why not stifle the impulse to post the obvious rebuttal , and, content that no
one is swayed by such crap as they offer, turbo scroll past the damn offensive
garbage and continue the real debate we should be having?’

the thing is, you can do both, react and still continue the debate. the problem
in the netherlands, the country I live in, is that the etreme right suddenly
succeeded in dominating every discussion because of the fact that no one
reacted anymore, whereas they kept going on spreading their lies. and now
most politicans and media don’t even dare to attack the extreme right.
moreover: the reactions of the extreme right give us a good opportunity to
show what is wrong with them. let me give you an example.

lew ciefer gives us a clear illustration how the hate, which for centuries was
projected on the other, the outsider, the one who did not belong, the jew, is
after the holocaust projected on the arabs. i mean the age old antisemitism did
not disdappear overnight, the urge to hate the outsider is still there, and had to
find a new victim. the more the antisemite hates the arab the more he pretends
to be a philosemite.

it is this philosemitism/antisemitism that forms the basis for the support of the
‘jewish state’. it is not difficult to understand why the support of the israeli
terror against the palestinians and its neighbours is supported on every level
only by the christian west. it is not strange that europe and the usa keep on
stimulating the israeli violations of international law. the west does not need
the jew anymore to project its hatred and fear on, it has the arab now, the
muslims in general. to be exact: the west needs the jew as an excuse to project
its ressentment on the arab.

well now, lew ciefer is a good example to show this phenomenon. the same is
true for the way he consideres the american empire as a holy instrument. let
him react and show what he does. there are more like him who do the same but
much more sophisticated, and that you will realize after you keep on analyzing
the words of the ciefers in this world.

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By ardee, August 5, 2011 at 9:23 pm Link to this comment

PatrickHenry, August 5 at 11:56 am

We are, obviously, on different political journeys. But I must compliment you on your accurate interpretation of that abysmal wretch.

However, and I address the entire thread here, the volume of responses to childish, almost pathological crap spewed by he and his alter ego, GRYM, have spawned responses that do nothing but interrupt much needed conversation.

They are not children certainly, but they are indeed childish in their need for attention and their ability to turn a thread into so much fertilizer. Not that they are alone in this, we have our democratic loyalists here who do much the same to threads as well.

I do not impugn the right of any to post on any topic at any time. My point is that ,when faced with such obviously nonsensical posts as these two ( and others) offer, why not stifle the impulse to post the obvious rebuttal , and, content that no one is swayed by such crap as they offer, turbo scroll past the damn offensive garbage and continue the real debate we should be having?

Just a suggestion engendered by threads such as these ,so encumbered by so easily refuting what is basically empty bullshite, that all coherency is lost.

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By stan van houcke, August 5, 2011 at 12:03 pm Link to this comment

i quote the man who hates muslims so much that he felt the urge to pose on
this website the following question:

‘why do Western nations continue to allow them to enter?’

well ciefer, in projecting your antisemitism on muslims in general and arabs in
particular the answer to this question you gave yourself by stating:

‘The Jews are there to stay P.H. deal with it.’

so, ‘the arabs are here to stay lew ciefer. deal with it.’

stop your stereotyping, and fearmongering. you must know better than anyone
else what the inevitable result is of stigmatizing a whole group of people, for
the simple fact is that your familyname originates from the heartland of the
german speaking world where the nazi-hatred first raised its head.

Report this
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By PatrickHenry, August 5, 2011 at 11:56 am Link to this comment

Lew,

The only one on this forum bringing up hatred of ‘Jews’ is you.

Israel is a state, not a religion or ethnicity, in fact 25% of the people who live there are not Jewish at all.  I find it amusing your attempt to link the two, a popular but increasingly unsucessful hasbara ploy.  What’s next in your repertoire, calling other posters anti-semites, holocaust deniers because they dissed your dear Israel.  If you love it go to live there preferably on the West Bank in one of those ‘settler’ kibbutz.  You would fit right in, that is if you don’t live there already.

Matt Taibbi, is an idiot and you can read him all you want, even sleep with his picture posted to you forehead, who cares.  He wouldn’t know the ‘truth’ if it bit him in the ass, neither would you.

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By Lew Ciefer, August 5, 2011 at 10:57 am Link to this comment

By PatrickHenry, August 5 at 3:16 am

Lew,
I see the dementia is setting in.
Stan has been a courteous poster while you on the other hand have read your own BS into his and others message.
Keep it up Lew, I believe in your right to your own opinions sans facts, even though they are only partly amusing, in your naziesque sort of way.
What is the opposite of a ‘truther’ Lew, an un-truther?


Yes, P.H. the dementia has set in. It’s true. I have moments, sometimes hours, where I’m not lucid. I’ve been told to expect it to get progressively worse. Such is aging. Unfortunately for you and Stan, this isn’t one of those moments.

No, your pal (wink, wink) has been on a Christiaphobic, anti-Jew, anti-Zionist, anti-Israel crusade and thrashing anyone (me) who dares to challenge his Christiaphobic, anti-Jew, anti-Zionist, anti-Israel bigotry. Israel is a legitimate State P.H., its establishment was authorized by the Lefty Commie Socialist created, farcical governing body and three ring circus, the not-so-united United Nations. The Jews are there to stay P.H. deal with it.

I have a conspiracy theory for you that involves the Zionist, the empire, Israel and the Palestinians. It’s a plot not only to annihilate the Palestinians—giving Israel free reign to all the land—but also Iran and Syria using the Palestinians as bait. And it’s one hell of a lot more credible than anything your buddy is blubbering about. Let me know if you’re interested. 

You don’t believe in my right to anything P.H. That’s just empty jingoism that keeps you haughty and deceived about being a man of principle.

If there were anything wrong with my facts you’d be here with something more than ad hominem and your willy in your hand. You’d be nailing me to a cross and loving every minute of it.

The opposite of Truther? Ummmm .... Mentally sound?

Here’s how Matt Taibbi summed up Truthers in his book ‘The Great Derangement’:

”...while the Truthers easily believed that reporters for the Washington Post, the president, and the front-line operators of NORAD were equally capable of murdering masses of ordinary New York financial-sector employees. Abandoned by the political center, both groups ascribed unblinkingly to a militant, us-against-them worldview, where only their own could be trusted. What made them distinctly American was that, while actually the victims of an obvious, unhidden conspiracy of corrupt political power, they chose to battle bugbears that were completely idiotic, fanciful, and imaginary. At a time when the country desperately needed its citizens to man up and seize control of their common destiny, they instead crawled into alleys and feverishly jacked themselves off in frenzies of panicked narcissism.”

He classified Truthers alongside wild-eyed Christian fundamentalists of the John Hagee Ministries variety. You may want to consider the possibility that you are allying yourself with the wrong side. The ‘both groups’ (above) are Truthers and Christians.

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By Lew Ciefer, August 5, 2011 at 10:55 am Link to this comment

U.S. Special Operations Command spokesman Colonel Tim Nye told me…


Yep, there’s no more reliable source than an agent of the U.S. Special Operations Command when it comes to getting the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I mean ... they would never initiate or participate in misinformation campaigns or PysOps.

And we can thank the flying teapot that no other States perform clandestine and subversive actions against friend and foe alike.

By stan van houcke, August 4 at 3:42 pm

the real problems are not solved in any serious way. the rich get richer,
the poor poorer, that is the essence of the neoliberal ideology of the
extreem right.

Not only is that disconcerting Stan…it’s revelation!

How’s that war of yours against the Evil Empire going Stan? Making any headway posting all those critical alerts that most have read days and weeks ago? I thank you for your sacrifice. I sleep better at night knowing you’re on watch. Remember to stay low and keep that powder dry. Oh… and don’t shoot ‘till you see the whites of their eyes.’ Za Rodinu! Za Stalina!

Stan ... I was wondering ... have you given much thought about all of this? You see, on the one hand you decry the empire and seek its demise while on the other hand you decry its expansionism which is how most empires die—overextension and bankruptcy. DUH!

God help us.

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By PatrickHenry, August 5, 2011 at 3:16 am Link to this comment

Lew,

I see the dementia is setting in.

Stan has been a courteous poster while you on the other hand have read your own BS into his and others message.

Keep it up Lew, I believe in your right to your own opinions sans facts, even though they are only partly amusing, in your naziesque sort of way.

What is the opposite of a ‘truther’ Lew, an un-truther?

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By stan van houcke, August 5, 2011 at 2:04 am Link to this comment

finally the borders of the frontier are coming into sight.

already in the eighteenth century john taylor of caroline warned for the american expansionism which would inevitably end in terror:

‘English legal historian, M.J.C. Vile views Taylor as “in some ways the most impressive political theorist that America has produced.” [3] “Taylor took solid liberal ground in holding that men were a mixture of good and evil. Self-interest was the only real constant in human action. . . . . Indeed, while other thinkers, from Thomas Jefferson to Federalist John Adams, agonized over the need for a virtuous citizenry, Taylor took the view that ‘the principles of a society may be virtuous, though the individuals composing it are vicious.’” [4] Taylor’s solution to the effects of factionalism was to “remove the base from under the stock jobbers, the banks, the paper money party, the tariff-supported manufacturers, and so on; destroy the system of patronage by which the executive has corrupted the legislature; bring down the usurped authority of the Supreme Court.” [5] “The more a nation depends for its liberty on the qualities of individuals, the less likely it is to retain it. By expecting publick good from private virtue, we expose ourselves to publick evils from private vices.”’

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taylor_of_Caroline

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By stan van houcke, August 5, 2011 at 1:50 am Link to this comment

while the extreme right is criminalizing ‘the muslims’ and ‘the liberals’ who are portrayed as a fifth column creating the real problems for good old us of a, the reality of the parasitic plutocracy shows:

‘American Millionaires: 1,400 Paid No U.S. Income Taxes. In 2009.New tax data from the Internal Revenue service shows that in 2009, incomes fell, unemployment claims rose, and the U.S. economy shed nearly two million taxpayers.’

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/04/irs-incomes_n_918458.html

1 percent of the americans possess now around 40 percent of its wealth and 22 percent of its yearly income. time for an enemy abroad and within. fascism all over again.

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By drbhelthi, August 5, 2011 at 1:43 am Link to this comment

“They came because they believed that Nazism was a major threat to mankind – and they knew nothing of the Halocaust. But when they did finally, after the war, they knew full well that what they had accomplished was right and good.”  Lafayette

Right.
Time to evaluate the situation in the U.S.A., within the context of the WWII NAZI sympathizers in the U.S. in 1945, e.g. Dulles brothers, Operation Paper Clip and reiterations until 1952, NAZI SS General Gehlin and the CIA, the GHWBushSr entourage &their; Israeli cousins the zionist-clan, and their current Kenyan puppet with Zionist entourage. 

Before the total money liquidity of American Citizens in S.E.S. 3-6 is dissolved, and the western world bankrupted by paper-work of the Zionist Federal Reserve, the “right and good accomplishment” is ripe for repetition. 

Not against the Hitler-types in Germany and western Europe, this time, but rather the Hitler-Zionist-types who have ensconced themselves inside the U.S.A.  Also, to cut the umbilical chord to the mini-empire established on Palestinian property.

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By stan van houcke, August 4, 2011 at 3:42 pm Link to this comment

and in the meantime:

‘Stocks collapse on global slowdown fears
Intense selling reflects frustration with failure to address concerns over
high public debt levels in Europe and the US.’

http://english.aljazeera.net/business/2011/08/201184202815736376.
html

the real problems are not solved in any serious way. the rich get richer,
the poor poorer, that is the essence of the neoliberal ideology of the
extreem right.

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By stan van houcke, August 4, 2011 at 3:37 pm Link to this comment

‘US Commando War in 120 Countries’

all the taxpayers’ money that disappears into the military industrial
complex could be used for the well-being of american citizens, but alas,
it is used to kill, murder and repress other people:

‘Uncovering the Military’s Secret Operations In the Obama Era

By Nick Turse

August 04, 2011—- Somewhere on this planet an American commando
is carrying out a mission.  Now, say that 70 times and you’re done… for
the day.  Without the knowledge of the American public, a secret force
within the U.S. military is undertaking operations in a majority of the
world’s countries.  This new Pentagon power elite is waging a global war
whose size and scope has never been revealed, until now.’

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28747.htm

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By Lew Ciefer, August 4, 2011 at 2:49 pm Link to this comment

2 of 2

By diamond, August 3 at 3:46 pm

You haven’t actually addressed a single point I raised. As for slavery: yes, the Romans had slaves the Greeks had slaves and so did many others but none of that can make slavery moral and it is one of the great moments of white hypocrisy (there are many others) that white Christian gentlefolk bought and sold their fellow human beings as if they were cattle and in America’s case the south went to war with the north in an attempt to preserve the slave trade and the master/slave culture built on bags of cotton and money in the south. More Americans died in the Civil war than have died in every other war America has been involved in, put together - 600,000 and all killed by their fellow Americans. Going on the numbers alone, this means that the biggest and most lethal danger to Americans is other Americans.

This—IMO—demonstrates that you’re not really interested in truth. It demonstrates that what you really want to do is hate. You want to denigrate and bring down and drag through the dirt the object of all that pent up anger. And it is fairly apparent what the object of all that hate is.

Did you know that about 4,000 free blacks had slaves in the U.S.?

Did you know that indigenous Americans had black slaves? Here you go:
Black Slaves, Red Masters Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a11blNxkXc

The word slave is a derivative of the word Slav. Slavs are the Slavic speaking peoples of eastern Europe. That would be White people from eastern Europe. Yes, slaves for the Greeks and others were those beautiful blond haired Barbarians from eastern Europe. More than a few were females sent to fill Harems. When you concentrate on race you lose your perspective.

What are you doing to help stamp out slavery today?

This might interest you it’s by Dan Carlin. It’s a bit radical but it won’t disappoint. Don’t wait because once an episode is moved from into the archives you have to pay for it. Scroll down to show 26 “Addicted to Bondage”
http://www.dancarlin.com/disp.php/hharchive

I recommend you read: Slavery: A World History” by Milton Meltzer

By diamond, August 3 at 3:46 pm

And your smug assertion that there’s always an empire to take over is more evidence that you believe the status quo is set in concrete and can and must never alter. This is fascism again. Hitler’s main problem with German society was that it had strayed from the path of fascism established by the pagan cultures of Greece and Rome with their slavery, misogyny and endless wars, and had allowed it’s whiter than white purity to be stained by dusky foreigners with a different religion. Sound familiar? It used to be Jews, now it’s Muslims but it’s just the same old fascist shit. And of course you don’t know you’re a fascist, if you did, you wouldn’t be one.

Where in hell have you studied history? Is this the crap they’re teaching in schools today?

It wasn’t a smug assertion. It’s history. It doesn’t mean that I like it or condone it. What are you doing to bring down the empire? What do you suggest others do? What exactly would you have others do to prevent the next empire from rising?

Tell me all that you know about the Hanjar Division of the Waffen SS and who recruited them for Hitler diamond.

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By Lew Ciefer, August 4, 2011 at 2:46 pm Link to this comment

1 of 2

By diamond, August 3 at 3:46 pm

Oh, I see. To end war I have to join the army. Jesus! Why didn’t I think of that? It’s all so blindingly obvious to me now. If you want to end war you go and train to kill people and blow them up with bombs. Genius..

I have responded to your comments diamond and I’m posting my reply out of courtesy although I don’t see where anything in your comments relate to the debt ceiling crisis non-crisis and the soon to come further impoverishment of hard-working Americans by what will be record high tax increases on the already overburdened American worker by the closest thing to a government made in the lowest part of hellfire—the Obumatration.

No you don’t see diamond. No one said you have to join the army or fight in a war. ‘In the line of fire’ is an idiom, an expression. You’ll be in the line of fire when you confront those responsible for the wars and demand of them that they cease and desist. Good luck!

By diamond, August 3 at 3:46 pm
You haven’t actually addressed a single point I raised. <i>It is an indisputable fact that the reason there are so many Muslims in Europe now is because there are so many refugees fleeing the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and many others are in Europe or Britain because their countries were invaded by said nations a long time ago so that their resources could be stolen and empire could be built on the back of the labor of the people in those countries. That is simply a fact of history. The entire immigration/refugee crisis is a self-inflicted wound. Refugees and war are inextricably linked and they always have been.

Au contraire diamond; I took time to honor you by addressing every single point. You don’t like the responses. There is deeper thought than ‘republican bad, democrat good, ugh.’ What you wanted to hear were democrat talking points and Marxist/socialist spin.

There are several holes with your declaration. First neither you nor I can possibly know the motives of so many millions of individuals. Second, the immigration has a history before current hostilities. Third, you have now qualified your previous statement to refugees from Afghanistan and Iraq and refugees seeking succor from the West due to Iraq and Afghanistan having invaded(?) their countries. It might be simple but it isn’t fact.

Refugees and war are, as you say, inextricably linked. But is it not also fact that refugees flee from the enemy toward friend? What you’re saying here is that for, possibly the first time in history, refugees are fleeing toward an enemy seeking succor. My question is designed to get you and others to think. If they are flowing toward the West then the West can’t possibly be the Great Satan some would have us believe.

Who has stolen resources from whom diamond? Have you any evidence to back that up? Do you really believe, are you really so naive to believe, that the Empire could go into those lands, countries, or whatever and steal the resources without someone raising hell about it? Do you think China and Russia might not have something to say about that? The U.N. perhaps? Russia and China are critiquing the recent debt ceiling increase as irresponsible and you’d have me believe that the U.S. could STEAL crude—the most coveted economic lubricant and energy source in the world—and nary a voice or a threat is to be heard? 

Diamond there is no life without economy. The past was not an idyllic paradise where humans lived in harmony with nature. It was mostly a hellish subsistence of constant fear filled with predators, disease, starvation, and hardships that humans today cannot even begin to imagine. Be careful what you wish for.

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By Lew Ciefer, August 4, 2011 at 2:31 pm Link to this comment

By stan van houcke, August 4 at 12:56 pm

Meet the Right-Wing Hatemongers Who Inspired the Norway Killer
Why were America’s Islamophobes able to avoid accountability for so long?’


Your Christiaphobic, anti-Semitic, anti-Zionist, America-hating invectives have nothing to do with this thread, article, and the recently resolved debt ceiling crisis non-crisis and making the undefined ‘rich’ pay their indefinable ‘fair share’ for days.

So that you might have a better understanding of the regulations at Truthdig I’ve reported this post to the Main Dude.

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By Lew Ciefer, August 4, 2011 at 2:25 pm Link to this comment

By PatrickHenry, August 3 at 4:20 pm


P.H. as you know I don’t care to have any dealings with Truthers because it’s been my experience that most Truthers believe anything but the truth. But I feel compelled to make an exception this time in order to caution you.

According to info sent to me via the Main Dude, ad hominem is discouraged here at Truthdig. Your reference to toad and telling me to go back under my rock is purposed acrimonious ad hominem. The definition of toad as you are using it is ‘a repulsive person.’ I find that extremely offensive and hurtful and unnecessary. I can barely maintain my composure knowing that others are reading your mean, vile, spiteful remarks. Such nefariousness! I feel demeaned and savaged. Had I connected just 10 minutes earlier my young grandson would have seen your cruel and mendacious opprobrium against my person. That was a very insensitive act on your part.

Your post says nothing with respect to the topic of this article which is the recently resolved debt ceiling crisis non-crisis and making the undefined ‘rich’ pay their indefinable ‘fair share.’ Stan has been on a literal tear spewing Christiaphobic, anti-Semitic, anti-Zionist, America-hating invectives which have nothing to do with the recently resolved debt ceiling crisis non-crisis and making the undefined ‘rich’ pay their indefinable ‘fair share’ for days.

While I’d enjoy pointing out the hypocritical nature of your comments this isn’t the thread on which to do so. I’m sure if you wait a few days Israel, the Jews and Zionists will appear in an article here on Truthdig and then we can meet in verbal combat.

Forgive me but since I am not allowed to take matters into my own hands and retaliate, I’m afraid that I’ve no alternative but to report your post to the Main Dude. These types of attacks will never end until individuals like you are properly reprimanded.

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By stan van houcke, August 4, 2011 at 12:56 pm Link to this comment

‘AlterNet / By Max Blumenthal 255 COMMENTS


Meet the Right-Wing Hatemongers Who Inspired the Norway Killer
Why were America’s Islamophobes able to avoid accountability for so long?’

http://www.alternet.org/teaparty/151881/meet_the_right-wing_hatemongers_who_inspired_the_norway_killer/?page=entire

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By drbhelthi, August 4, 2011 at 1:13 am Link to this comment

” - - broad brush that criticism as a hatred of all Jews,
including the majority who don’t live there and who protest its
policies.- - ”  PatrickHenry

Right.  Many inside the “state of Israel” also disagree, but, in
order to continue to enjoy the “bennies,” rather than to be
publicly scape-goated, fulfill the role of mindless puppets.

It seems appropriate to recognize that the Zionists who
manipulate the “state of Israel”, the U.S. Government & the
banking system of the world, are separate entities from folk of
the genuine Jewish belief.  While there is some very distressing
overlap, the Zionists function as Hitler-types.  Genuine Jewish
believers do not. 

Those who enjoy the bennies of Israel, and keep their mouths
shut, whether inside or outside of Israel, tend to function as
shills. Perhaps, a form of dishonesty ? Like it or not.

As far as the title of this article is concerned –
Obama “could” do many things he has not done and will never do.
As the U.S. President, he is the appointed lobbyist for the rich
& super-rich who installed him.

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By stan van houcke, August 4, 2011 at 1:04 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

the extreme right, people like lew ciefer, want to spread their hatred on every progressive website. they are relentlessly vomiting their resentment and never react on rational arguments. their domain is not rationality but negative emotions. that makes the threat so dangerous. they are not motivated by rational arguments but by irrational impulses. liberals should be warned: 

‘a warning from our own Department of Homeland Security (DHS), which has repeatedly insisted, “that Right-wing Conservative extremists would be among the groups most likely to commit an act of mass violence in the United States.”[4] Typically unstated in reports about acts of domestic terrorism in the United States is that a disproportionate amount of these acts have been waged against children. Recent US history is replete with examples, from routine KKK and other racist attacks on black children and families in the 1950’s and 60’s, to the shootings at Columbine High School in 1999 and at Virginia Tech in 2007.’

http://www.truth-out.org/breiviks-fundamentalist-war-politics-and-ours/1312390288

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By PatrickHenry, August 3, 2011 at 4:20 pm Link to this comment

Interesting that anytime someone offers criticism of the state of Israel as being the apartheid, racist nation it is, some toad will crawl out from under its rock and broad brush that criticism as a hatred of all Jews, including the majority who don’t live there and who protest its policies.

What a tired and false statement Lew, go back under your rock.

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By diamond, August 3, 2011 at 3:46 pm Link to this comment

“As a Vet I can tell you that you aren’t going to stop any war typing whine here. You’ll actually have to get up off your arse and put it in the line of fire. Talk is cheap. Go! Let’s see you save mankind. I can’t wait ‘til your ticker tape parade Hero.”

Oh, I see. To end war I have to join the army. Jesus! Why didn’t I think of that? It’s all so blindingly obvious to me now. If you want to end war you go and train to kill people and blow them up with bombs. Genius.

You haven’t actually addressed a single point I raised. It is an indisputable fact that the reason there are so many Muslims in Europe now is because there are so many refugees fleeing the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and many others are in Europe or Britain because their countries were invaded by said nations a long time ago so that their resources could be stolen and empire could be built on the back of the labor of the people in those countries. That is simply a fact of history. The entire immigration/refugee crisis is a self-inflicted wound. Refugees and war are inextricably linked and they always have been.

As for slavery: yes, the Romans had slaves the Greeks had slaves and so did many others but none of that can make slavery moral and it is one of the great moments of white hypocrisy (there are many others) that white Christian gentlefolk bought and sold their fellow human beings as if they were cattle and in America’s case the south went to war with the north in an attempt to preserve the slave trade and the master/slave culture built on bags of cotton and money in the south. More Americans died in the Civil war than have died in every other war America has been involved in, put together - 600,000 and all killed by their fellow Americans. Going on the numbers alone, this means that the biggest and most lethal danger to Americans is other Americans.

And your smug assertion that there’s always an empire to take over is more evidence that you believe the status quo is set in concrete and can and must never alter. This is fascism again. Hitler’s main problem with German society was that it had strayed from the path of fascism established by the pagan cultures of Greece and Rome with their slavery, misogyny and endless wars, and had allowed it’s whiter than white purity to be stained by dusky foreigners with a different religion. Sound familiar? It used to be Jews, now it’s Muslims but it’s just the same old fascist shit. And of course you don’t know you’re a fascist, if you did, you wouldn’t be one.

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By Lew Ciefer, August 3, 2011 at 12:21 pm Link to this comment

By stan van houcke, August 3 at 11:39 am

the most volatile argument used by the hatemongers of the extreme right, like lew ciefer

Apparently, you fail to understand free speech. You can say whatever you want as long as it is true. Holding to a different political view than yours does not make me a hatemonger. That’s ad hominem and agaist the rules of participation.

This topic is about the imaginary debt ceiling and making the undefined ‘rich’ pay their indefinable fair share. It is not a platform from which to spew Christaphobic, anti-Semitic, anti-Zionist, racist, America-hating rhetoric.

The debt ceiling crisis non-crisis is over. Now it’s just a matter of waiting to find how badly the Obumatration plans to rake working Americans over the coals.

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By Lew Ciefer, August 3, 2011 at 12:00 pm Link to this comment

By LocalHero, August 3 at 10:01 am

We officially have a new winner for the dumbest thing ever posted on Truthdig (and that’s saying a lot!). Congratulations to Lew for this—
“Many of the military bases are there at the behest of host nations.”

I was once asked what I though of Libertarians. I replied: “Libertarians are nothing more than disgruntled Republicans invested heavily in gold, which they shill incessantly so that their portfolios might fatten, while running around 24/7—complete with a full complement of tin foil combat gear—predicting the imminent fall of the dollar and the Empire.”

The entirety of your comment consists of no less than four logic fallacies. 1.) ad hominem, 2.) quote mining 3.) fallacious appeal to authority (Are you Stan in disguise?), and 4.) irrelevant conclusion.

Let’s see if you can figure out why?

 

NOTE:

“V foe Vengeance” is one of my favorite movies.

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By stan van houcke, August 3, 2011 at 11:39 am Link to this comment

the most volatile argument used by the hatemongers of the extreme right, like lew ciefer, is
the so called betrayal argument, the stab-in-the-back legend. it is the argument also of the norwegian
christian fundamentalist terrorist anders behring breivik. the myth is that the white christian
folks are being threatened by muslim hordes and by a leftwing betraying the
nation because they ‘continue to allow them to enter,’ them being in this case ‘the muslims,’ before the second world war it were—according to this myth—the jews who formed the fifth column which clandestinely undermine the defenceless nation from within.

it was this betrayal-sentiment that brought the nazi thugs to power, right in the middle of the german speaking
world where the name lew ciefer originates from. i mean, he must know what
he is doing. in the heart of his family’s original fatherland ressentments
against the foreigner were exploited so succesfully that it only could end in
genocide.

the usa is entering a dangenrous phase now because of the gradual
destruction of the middle class. no longer is the phenomenon of white trash
limited to the unemployed lower class, the lumpenproletariat, as marx called them.
the usa is entering a new situation because it is the middle class which cannot
be bought of anymore, and so the ressentment grows. in germany this ended in fascism, and seeing the
growth of the teaparty one can notice that also in the united states the
ressentment is finding a political translation. in nazi germany the leftwing did
not have an answer to this development. the question is: do the liberals in the
usa have a cure for this social ill?

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By LocalHero, August 3, 2011 at 10:01 am Link to this comment

We officially have a new winner for the dumbest thing ever posted on Truthdig (and that’s saying a lot!).

Congratulations to Lew for this—

“Many of the military bases are there at the behest of host nations.”

Wow.

War prosperity is like the prosperity that an earthquake or a plague brings. ~Ludwig von Mises

Only fools seek power, and the greatest fools seek it through force. ~Lao Tsu

The greater the state, the more wrong and cruel its patriotism, and the greater is the sum of suffering upon which its power is founded. ~Leo Tolstoy

The essence of so-called war prosperity; it enriches some by what it takes from others. It is not rising wealth but a shifting of wealth and income. ~Ludwig von Mises

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By Lew Ciefer, August 3, 2011 at 9:45 am Link to this comment

2 of 2

By diamond, August 2 at 5:11 pm

Nice rant. Not a rational statement in sight but nice rant.

> There are very few tribes, societies, civilizations, nations, states that have not practiced some form of slavery. That includes indigenous Americans. Yes, Europe opened up the Atlantic slave trade—you forgot to mention that the Arabs and Africans had already had a very long history of slave trading when the Europeans jumped in—but Europe and America also gave rise to the abolitionist movements and banned slavery long before many others. Guess what part of the world still practices slavery?

> Causality is really a biotch and your puerile and erroneous evaluation of a very complicated phenomenon is at best risible.

> Crude does no one any good in the ground. It fuels the world’s economies and the advancement that has been possible in the Middle East has been due in very large part to the wealth brought to those nations in harvesting their resources. No corporate contract ever stipulates that autocratic/theocratic families/leaders have to hoard most of the wealth for themselves. Perhaps their plight is due more to their governmental, religious and economic systems than it is to other factors. Europe under Roman Catholicism was no paradise. England under fundamentalist Protestantism wasn’t either.

> Germany, Japan, and South Korea have had an American military presence for 50 + years. All three are economic powers and their citizens enjoy a first world standard of living.

> There are 10,000 persons born every hour. Most are born in countries that cannot feed their existing populations. And you would have us stop harvesting the one energy source that fuels the world’s economy, fuels all the farm equipment, ships, trucks, and aircraft that produce, process and distribute food to all corners of the earth?

> I condemn war but the Ruling Elite doesn’t even know I exist. If you’re anti-war why in the hell haven’t you stopped it? Oh…I’m sorry…You voted for Obama and he has since stopped all the wars and closed Guantanamo just like he promised. My bad.

As a Vet I can tell you that you aren’t going to stop any war typing whine here. You’ll actually have to get up off your arse and put it in the line of fire. Talk is cheap. Go! Let’s see you save mankind. I can’t wait ‘til your ticker tape parade Hero.

> Human beings have been immigrating from scarcity to abundance since human ancestors crawled out of the primordial swamp. Where did all those Jews in Europe come from? We speak an Indo-European language…guess what Indo means.

> If Western civilization is so evil, corrupt, malevolent, and inferior and humans always transmigrate from scarcity to abundance why do current immigration patterns show a flood of humanity emigrating from Asian, Middle Eastern and African continent Islamic nations to the West? Could it be that those evil white people and their Great Satan civilization actually built a better mouse trap?

> You accuse me of me being racist then delivered a spiel telling me how inferior Whites and Western Civilization are. It’s interesting that those who embrace the neo-class warfare concepts of multiculturalism and political correctness, which decry anything white and Western libertarian, fail to realize that those very concepts are white and Western.

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By LocalHero, August 3, 2011 at 9:43 am Link to this comment

Again GRYM proves he knows absolutely nothing about what he spews. The US spends MORE than 40% of its budget on military and military-related (veterans, interest on past wars, etc.) activity especially when off-budget (Black Ops & related) and the various snoop agencies are included since they all act on behalf of The Beast. The best estimate I have seen is 48% and I think that’s low.

As a percentage of GDP the military accounts for 50% and prisons another 10%. Disgusting.

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By Lew Ciefer, August 3, 2011 at 9:43 am Link to this comment

1 of 2

By diamond, August 2 at 5:11 pm

Nice rant. Not a rational statement in sight but nice rant.

>Actually it’s not a rant. It is a very concise and impressive—if I may say so—piece.

> Yes ours is bigger, deal with it. Someone will always have the bigger one. Every bully eventually gets his comeuppance. Until then enjoy it because neither you nor I can change it.

> Of course it can protect itself from itself. You simply fail to realize that you and I aren’t America. They are!

> Many of the military bases are there at the behest of host nations. Throughout all of human history villages, tribes, cities, states, nations and empires have made alliances of convenience.

Go tell Germany, Japan, and S. Korea you’re pulling the troops out and closing the bases. They’ll scream bloody hell. Those bases mean multimillions of dollars to their economies. Not to mention reducing their defense cost. Those bases also have a lot to do with the many decades of relative peace in the world.

> Have you a clue how many centuries Rome stood? When the Republic became weak—like the U.S. is now—it became an Empire and lasted several more centuries. It was an Empire longer than it was a Republic. And it was always expansionist, as a republic and as an empire. As a fan of Obama this little quote from Wallon should interest you: “in the early times of the Republic, [Rome] was chiefly preoccupied with having a numerous and strong population of freemen. Under the Empire she had but one anxiety—taxes.” They taxed their working class into oblivion and replaced it with immigrants, slaves and serfs from Germany and other parts.

“Native farmers and native soldiers were needless when such material could be bought cheaper in the North or East. With money the cohorts could be filled with Germans; with money, slaves and serfs could be settled upon the Italian fields; and for the last century, before the great inroads began, one chief problem of the imperial administration was the regulation of the inflow of new blood from without, lacking which the social system must have collapsed.”—Brooks Adams “The Law of Civilization and Decay”

Doesn’t that sound like outsourcing and uncontrolled immigration?

> I don’t think you’d recognize fascist if it up and kicked you.

> There’s much difference between someone who believes in racial superiority and one who isn’t ashamed of his race because it happens to be fashionable among those in Ivory Towers who tend to think ill of their fellows while thinking well of their token minority du jour sitting in the basement office and proudly displayed every time the White enlightened masters need to impress their peers with their love of diversity.

Remember it was intelligencia in Ivory Towers that came up with the idea of racial superiority in the first place. As a matter of fact humanity has seen no slaughter to equal that at the hands of intellectuals establishing their earthly paradises—does Hitler, Mussolini, Lenin, Mao, and Pol Pot ring any bells?

> Is it not often said that Whites are the world’s minority? Do not ‘persons of color’ far outnumber Whites?

> Oh its Empire and colonization that has you all in a tizzy. I believe you forgot an Empire or two: Assyrian, Egyptian, Babylonian, Mede, Mede-Persian, Persian, Mocha, Inca, Maya, Aztec, Muslim Arab, Ottoman and Japanese to name a few. There’s always a new empire to take over and they are all expansionist, that’s why they’re empires.

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By Lew Ciefer, August 3, 2011 at 9:38 am Link to this comment

By stan van houcke, August 3 at 12:44

when lew ciefer and the extreme right


Everything is Left vs. Right even thought the only difference between Left and Right is which boot one lives under. People never consider the option of life without a boot on one’s neck. With the Right they’re called Concentration Camps while on the Left they’re called Gulags.

It always comes down to Israel and the Jews with you Stan. IMO this clearly indicates an anti-Jew, anti-Zionist, America-hating bigotry.

There was never any doubt about a debt ceiling hike. There is no such thing as a debt ceiling. There is no such thing as making the ‘rich’ pay their fair share because ‘rich’ is undefined and fair share is indefinable.

Perhaps you Europeans should put down the Whine, cheese and bread, stop worrying about the U.S. and start figuring out what you’re going to do with Greece, Spain, and Portugal. Oh… and I believe Italy is about to join the big three too.

In these parts of the woods we call your commentary the pot calling the kettle black.

Happy financial collapse Stan! I wish I could say I cared.

Europe on Brink of ‘Major Financial Collapse’:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/43988195

a silent bank run in Greece

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/01/greece-panic-change

Italy under fire

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Italy-under-fire-in-widening-rb-3187145634.html?x=0&.v=12

Spain and Italy rush to quell fresh crisis

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f07eab84-bcee-11e0-bdb1-00144feabdc0.html#ixzz1Tv1rnjf9

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By stan van houcke, August 3, 2011 at 5:44 am Link to this comment

Anarcissie,

that is right what you state, but what morrids berman means is that the war on
drugs did not legitimize trillions of dollars for the military industrial complex. the
establishment had to come up with a different threat to legitimize the waste.
otherwise citizens would start protesting and would demand that the money will
be used for education, public health care, housing and all other things which
create a civilized society. the muslims were needed to create a new enemy out of
nothing. and this all to legitimize the so called globalisation, the robbing of the
world for the benefit of the few.

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By Anarcissie, August 3, 2011 at 5:02 am Link to this comment

stan van houcke—The war on drugs has been neither brief nor phony.  Thousands have been killed, and hundreds of thousands are in prison, and hundreds of thousands more have had their lives ruined by this exercise of sadism, superstition, racism and political opportunism.  It is an ongoing crime against humanity.

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By stan van houcke, August 3, 2011 at 12:44 am Link to this comment

diamond,

when lew ciefer and the extreme right still build their whole ideology on the
thought that ‘America is the world’s sole super power,’ they consciously neglect
what really is going on. when a tiny nation as israel can igenore the demands of
an american president and the congress applauds its extremist zionist leader, the rest of
the world knows that the tail wags the dog.

the interesting thing is the high level of analyses among many of america’s
liberal intellectuals who do see the real problems. for instance, professor morris
berman concludes in ‘the twilight of american culture’:

‘it was in 1989 that the clear outlines of a very different sort of world from the
one that began in 1914 finally emerged. that year saw the beginning of the end
of the soviet union, and of the (convenient) organization of the world into two
opposing camps. this is the centerpiece of what we call globalization. no more
a clearly defined world, in which bitter regional rivalries reemerged and the
“enemy” could no longer be unambiguously identified. america thus lost its
moral, anti-communist, mission, and the vacuum got filled
with distractions: a brief, phoney “war on drugs,” the Gulf War and a decade of
trivial political scandals masquerading as news. such developments, however,
were only temporary. the really new moral mission was global corporate
hegemony, the old doctrine of manifest destiny now imported into the
economic realm and mapped onto the entire world…. if the twentieth century
was the american century, the twenty-first will be the americanized century,
and it will have its roots in a new global economy, in which consumerism will be
a full-blown religion.’

now the american empire is ending the problem for the united states is how to
stop the ressentment and growing fascism among the white folks in the usa, like ciefer and the tea party,
who are full of hatred and need a scapegoat. as we all know these feelings
created in germany and austria the conditions for the nazi’s to flower. but don’t
forget: the teaparty is only the symptom, not the illness itself.

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By diamond, August 2, 2011 at 5:11 pm Link to this comment

“America is the world’s sole super power.”

Nice rant. Not a rational statement in sight but nice rant. Your position on America comes down to ‘Mine’s bigger than yours and if you don’t like it too bad’. The problem is that America, while drowning in weapons of mass destruction is unable to protect itself from itself. America is now almost totally dysfunctional and will continue to be so until it closes down those 700 military bases it has around the world and stops aping Rome. Not a good model. Rome was eventually invaded and conquered by the people it had conquered, occupied and oppressed. As I said, bad model.

Lew Ciefer is the genuine fascist article: someone who believes that the whites can do anything they like because they’re white and superior. He also claims that whites are under attack and being oppressed, when anyone who is operating on all brain cells knows that it is the whites who have been the world’s greatest oppressors, especially of those who are not white and live in the third world. What does he think the British Empire was about, or the French, the Spanish, the Portuguese or any of them? They were about invading and occupying other people’s countries by force of arms and stealing all their resources. It should come as no surprise that they eventually ended up enslaving people who weren’t white and selling them as if they were animals.

The Muslim refugees currently ‘invading’ Europe are on the run from the wars that white Christian politicians have inflicted on them and many of them are the result of Europe’s colonial, imperial past. If Lew Ciefer doesn’t want refugees in Europe then he should condemn war, colonialism and empires instead of blaming their victims. And you’re not Lucifer, lew Ciefer, you’re just a garden variety fascist with all the delusion and blind bigotry that goes with it.

‘Between the early 1600s and the 1950s more than 20 million people left the British Isles to begin new lives across the seas…This British exodus turned whole continents white. Since the 1950s the flows of migrants have reversed themselves. More than a million people from all over Britain’s former empire have become immigrants. So controversial has this ‘reverse colonization’ been that successive governments have severely restricted it. But in the 17th and 18th centuries it was the British themselves who were the unwanted immigrants, at least in the eyes of those who already inhabited the New World” (P.54, ‘Empire: How Britain made the Modern World’, Niall Ferguson).

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By Alan MacDonald, August 2, 2011 at 1:53 pm Link to this comment

Jeez, I’m almost feeling guilty about bringing up the causal relationship between the disguised global corporate/financial/militarist Empire that controls the US, and mentioning its abuses in terms of the financial crisis/debt crisis as it affects American naive innocents, what with all the arguing that this point has stirred up.

Previously I have limited my ire with said cancer of global Empire to its adverse effects on innocent Iraqis, et al,  but the fact that the same Empire is the seminal cause of wars abroad and hurting Americans at home seems to be resonating with some peoples’ self-interest.

Just to be clear, “Empire abroad entails tyranny [and economic oppression] at home” as Hannah Arendt concluded from a lifetime of studying and directly feeling the lance of Empire (the Nazi type).

Seems like serious concern with the adverse effects of this undiagnosed (and under-estimated) global Empire hiding in our kitchen of burned faux-democracy is starting quite a kitchen fire her at TD.

Best,
Alan MacDonald
Sanford, Maine

Liberty & democracy
over
violent
empire

New America Peoples’ Party 2012 (our last chance “Against Empire” [Michael Parenti])

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By M Henri Day, August 2, 2011 at 1:18 pm Link to this comment

Surprise, surprise ! After the cliff-hanger, a dramatic
agreement as the clocked ticked down towards zero ! Love
that dramaturgy - too bad, as Ted Rall pointed out a
couple of weeks ago, it was so predicatable :
http://preview.tinyurl.com/3osbwzy....

Henri

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By stan van houcke, August 2, 2011 at 1:04 pm Link to this comment

professor morris berman anno 2006 in ‘dark ages america’:

‘as the american empire rolls mindlessly on, attempting to convert the entire
world to its way of life, the loss of what is truly human is going to be pretty
heavy. I would like to say that things can be turned around, that the nation will
wake up, but all the signs indicate just the reverse.’

columnist bob herbert in ‘the new york times’:

‘I look at the catastrophe in iraq, the fiscal debacle at home, the extent to which
loyalty trumps competence at the highest levels of government, the absence
of a coherent vision of the future for the united states and the world, and I
wonder, with a sense of deep sadness, where the adults have gone.’

historian william aplleman williams in 1980 in his study ‘empire as a way of life,’ about the fall of the american democracy which was:

‘the story of how citizens were increasingly limited to choosing between
policies formulated by the corporations or the government (or the two in collaboration), makes it apparant that all those protagonists accepted an imperial way of life.’

‘Op-Ed Columnist
The Racist Scourge
By ROGER COHEN

Hatred of Muslims in Europe and the United States is a growing political industry. It’s odious, dangerous and racist… Racism is stupidity’s recourse. There are plenty of stupid people in the world. ‘

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/02/opinion/02iht-edcohen02.html?ref=global

‘the international herald tribune’ of today:

‘relief, but damage done globally… brinkmanship over debt taints washington’s
image… among foreign leaders and in global markets, the political histrionics
have eroded the already diminishing aura of the united states as the world’s
economic haven and sole country with power to lead the rest of the world out
of financial crisis and recession.’

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By Lew Ciefer, August 2, 2011 at 10:34 am Link to this comment

By stan van houcke, August 2 at 1:49 am

in one of his rude comments lew ciefer tries to focus the attention on mulims whereas the subject is a christian fundamentalist terrorist. he states:

It’s strange that you would say that because after only two or three posts feigning concern about the phony debt ceiling crisis and America’s poor you have been on an Anti-American, anti-Jew, Christiaphobic tirade; a tirade that I find very offensive and distressing.

Your loathsome, disgusting and malevolent harangues are part and parcel of the systemic persecution and targeted discrimination against Christians, Christianity, and almost every aspect of Western culture throughout the Western world and beyond by Anti-American, anti-Jew, Christiaphobic racist fanatics, who, in their evangelical zeal to achieve the impossible—right all the world’s wrongs—are blinded to the fact that they parallel, in both word and deed, the most virulent plague of the 20th century, nationalist socialist Germany.

Your first posts expressed concern about the debt ceiling crisis soap opera. As a cover to conceal your real purpose—to spew your anti-American, anti-Jew and Christiaphobic hatred—you feigned concern for America’s poor, lack of schools, health care, etc.

In one of those earlier anti-American bigoted spiels you dropped your guard, and let your true feelings, your anti-Semitic (anti-Jew) feelings flow freely and vented on the Jews and Israel. That, by the way, is totally unrelated to the topic of the debt ceiling crisis and taxing of the undefined ‘rich’ in the U.S. Your own words condemn you!

When I questioned you about your obvious bias against Israel and the Jews you quickly tried to cover your anti-Semitic (anti-Jew), anti-Israel fanaticism and bigotry behind the lame excuse that you meant Zionists. You even went so far as to explain that ’not all Jews are Zionists and not all Zionists are Jews’ not realizing that your exposed anti-Semitic bigotry still stood only now even more so. Zionist Jews Stan, are Jews! Again your own words condemn you.

Once exposed as nothing more than another America-hating, anti-Jew, anti-Zionist Christiaphobic European you have since tried feigning affection for Jews and at the same time employed a very hateful misdirection play against me. It won’t work Stan. An article on the debt ceiling has nothing to do with race relations or foreign policy yet you’ve not ceased in your anti-American, anti-Jew, anti-Zionist, Christiaphobic rants against anyone not in agreement with what—IMO—is your profoundly bigoted, racists, hate-filled, vile, putrid, erroneous and puerile estimation of a very complicated social phenomenon occurring in many parts of the world today.

America is the world’s sole super power Stan and there isn’t anything that you or anyone reading these comments can do about it. You don’t like the Empire’s foreign policy? Who cares? I don’t! And millions of Americans join me in not giving a single hoot about the opinions or feelings of an America-hating, anti-Semitic (anti-Jew), anti-Zionist, Christiaphobic European. You’re in for a rough spell Stan because this former Republic is in the last throes of its existence to be, like Republican Rome, followed by the Beast.

The real Empire, with all that nuclear power and advanced technology and a desire to rule the world, has yet to show its face Stan. If you’ve got your knickers all in a pinch over what you’ve seen to date, you’re going to love what’s coming down the pike. 

You might want to mimic Winston, Stan, and learn to love Big Brother because as one of our esteemed Seers once said: “They’ve got ya by the balls!”

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By stan van houcke, August 2, 2011 at 1:49 am Link to this comment

in one of his rude comments lew ciefer tries to focus the attention on mulims
whereas the subject is a christian fundamentalist terrorist. he states:

‘It’s only natural that most—probably everyone but some won’t admit it—
thought Islamic terrorists because the acts are so similar to what we’ve been
seeing for decades now from Islamist terrorists.’

http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/
explosion_rocks_oslo_governm
ent_buildings_20110722/

what is ‘only natural’ for ciefer is for me absolutely not ‘only natural,’ and the
reason is pointed out elsewhere on truthout:

‘According to our very own FBI and CIA statistics, the percentage breakdown of
terrorist attacks in the USA is as follows:
42% Latino?24% Extreme Left Wing Groups?16% Others?7% Jewish Extremists?6%
Islamic Extremists?5% Communists’
http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/
not-all-terrorists-are-muslims/

one could also give as example all those white folks who commit terror. for
instance: was timothy mcveigh a muslim? was unabomber Ted Kaczynski a
muslim? were the italian rightwingers who put a bomb in the station of
bologna which killed 85 citizens muslims? was the murderer of the dutch
politician pim fortuyn a muslim? where the members of the brigate rosso muslims?
where the followers of the baader/meinhof cel muslims? and to stay closer at
home: are the americans who were responsible for the death of 3,4 million
dead vietnamese muslims? is the usa, which is according to a united nations-report
responsible for the death of at least half a million iraqi children under five years
a muslim country?

so, let us be honest, someone who pretends that it is ‘only normal’ that one
thinks about muslims as soon as somewhere terror happens, is a racist whose
hatred is comparable with the hatred the christian culture had reserved for so
long for the jews. but now antisemitism against jews is forbidden or politically incorrect in the west,
the same ressentment is projected on muslims. it is obvious that the
cultivated,centuries old ressentments, did not disappear in one generation. the
victims are now the muslims, the arabs in the first place. ciefer’s hatred needs
an object. the urge to stigmatize has not disappeared.

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By Anarcissie, August 1, 2011 at 9:26 pm Link to this comment

GRYM—The meaning of ‘hegemonic’ I’m used to and use is precisely what being the sole superpower means.  Instead of direct imperial administration, the hegemon commands through subordinate, nominally autonomous states and other entities.

Of course I would like to see the nation-state pass away, but that probably won’t happen overnight; people are not that rational.  If I can’t have that, I would like all the big-ticket states to make a deal not to shove one another around and to do their best to get along.  Not much chance of that either, eh?  After all, the state is a system of domination and exploitation, and the people who rise to the top of one are not going to suddenly stop doing the thing they know and love best, are they? 

So.  I don’t know which state I would wish the burdens of hegemony on.  If I were elected God and forced to select one, I’d guess I’d have to make a study to see which one would do the least damage to itself and those it dominated.  There is not a single modern state which, practicing empire in any form, has not been corrupted and bankrupted, indeed, in many cases completely destroyed, while wreaking almost random destruction on their unfortunate victims and targets.  We seem to be seeing the later, waning days of this process here in the United States.

Of course, I won’t decide this question; it will be decided by great forces beyond my or any single person’s control.  But I suppose it may be an interesting hypothetical question for some.

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By diamond, August 1, 2011 at 3:49 pm Link to this comment

“Bigotry is rampant here.”

I agree, which is why, GRYM, you should stop posting your bigotry forthwith. You make fact-free comments which you can’t back up. Prejudice/bigotry is pre-judging something or someone based on emotion, ignorance and fear. Your stock in trade. I was told my first year at university that I could say anything I wanted in an essay as long as I could back it up with proof. You don’t appear to understand the difference between an opinion, a prejudice and a fact. And even when you do, you use facts for negative purposes, such as claiming that because America may not spend 40% of its budget on the military this excuses the more than a trillion dollars a year it does spend on the military. It doesn’t. It’s common knowledge all over the world and is a numerical fact that America spends an extraordinary and exorbitant amount of its budget on its military and on weapons, so constantly harping on whether it’s exactly 40% or not is what’s known as a red herring - or in this case, given the enormity or America’s military spending, a red whale.

“When the Democratic Party supports me and my family; I will support it.”

The Democratic Party is not allowed to support you or your family, the worm: that’s Communism, or haven’t you heard?

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By stan van houcke, August 1, 2011 at 11:43 am Link to this comment

lew ciefer

what is your problem with jews and muslims?

you wrote the following in reaction to an article of william pfaff about the
norwegian christian terrorist who killed in cold blood 78 of his compatriots,
most of them young people:

‘By Lew Ciefer, July 29 at 4:41 pm Link to this comment

Why do Muslims leave their Islamic paradises to live in Great Satan nations
whose culture and cutoms they find so offensive?

And why do Western nations continue to allow them to enter?’

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/
norway_attacks_and_europes
_failed_immigration_policies_20110727/?ln

now the whole discussion had nothing to do with muslim terrorism, but with
christian terrorism, so why did you ask yourself publicly

‘why do western nations continue to allow them to enter’?

in this way you tried to stigmatize all muslims because of the deeds of some of
them? the question was in this case not relevant at all, but in this way you
tried to defend your right wing buddies who hate foreigners. lew ciefer, dont forget that european
christians posed the same question about jews just before the second world
war, in a time when antisemitism was still politically correct, just as correct as
an anti-muslim attitude is right now. national socialists, fascists, the extreme
right, succeeded then in stigmatising the jews in the same way you stigmatize
all muslims. as a journalist I met many highly educated, highly civilised muslims
all around the world, people who are more decent than europeans and
americans with extremist views, people like for instance you who criminalize innocent
others, just because they have a different religion, color, culture. antisemitism
never disappeared in the western world after the many centuries in which it
flowered in christian europe and the united states. your anti arab/anti muslim
attitude is only a modern variant of the age-old antisemitism. and it is well
known that only blind hatred is feeding your agression and that of all the others
on the extreme right. the question is how decent people have to deal with this
horrible phenomenon? democracy is quite defenceless against people like you,
as we recently saw in norway. there is no fundamental difference in outlook
between lew ciefer and Anders Behring Breivik.

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By Go Right Young Man, August 1, 2011 at 11:21 am Link to this comment

Anarcissie,

While I can’t agree with everything you wrote it’s easy to see the U.S. has indeed morphed into an empire.  Empire in the sense that nearly everything the U.S. does effects the globe.  Hegemonic?  I don’t see it.

We’re back then to the same question.  If not Iceland, then which nation do you prefer as the sole “superpower” on the planet?

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By Anarcissie, August 1, 2011 at 9:14 am Link to this comment

GRYM—Actually, I kind of like Iceland, so I guess I wouldn’t wish world hegemony on them.  Whoever inherits that mantle will be corrupted and destroyed by it.  It would be nice to imagine a world in which the role was allowed to pass away, but the logic of the state—domination and exploitation—probably dictates otherwise.

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By Go Right Young Man, August 1, 2011 at 6:24 am Link to this comment

ardee,

Not only do you hang on every word from this self described troll (you comment on the trolls posts religiously), you have yet to do what others here have done from time to time.  You’ve yet to prove my data incorrect.  Your typical nature is to post some useless link to yet another media source sharing your ‘opinions’.  I fail to see how that proves anything incorrect.

If I may?  Differing opinions from your own are not lies.  They are, very simply, a different opinion.

Thanks again for the assistance on this thread.  Much appreciated.

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By Go Right Young Man, August 1, 2011 at 6:10 am Link to this comment

stan

I think you would do well to locate and understand the funding behind the Web site you’ve been ingesting.  The site goes to terrific lengths to mask their affiliations and funding.  I wonder why that is.  Would you happen to know?

1. End all wars and the root causes of war?
a. Is this a call to change the nature of human-beings?  I would be interested in learning more about how that could be accomplished.

2. End NATO and retain the SCO?
b. That’s interesting.  I dare say very telling.

3. Calls for revolution in the form of teaching America’s young to resist military service but, nothing about serving in the Chinese, Russian or North Korean military?
c. Fascinating.

4. The U.S. spends upward and beyond of 40% of its budget on military expenditures?
d. Ludicrous.

Do you understand what you’re selling here, Stanley?

-

As an aside: I was pleased to see that the site enjoyed a meager 109,066 unique hits over the past year.  Thank goodness such a miniscule number of human-beings know of or support your site.

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By Lucifer chuckling, August 1, 2011 at 3:14 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

G.R.Young Man opined: “I’m hoping you now understand that the United States does not spend 40% of its budget on the military.”

GR, wish there was any way to tell. Huge chunks of the mil allocations are hidden. But just figuring known stuff: a few hundred sizable military bases planted everywhere, a few major nuke design facilities, production, upgrade, storage of old nukes, maybe 200 tons of VX nerve-gas kept in ready accessible storage, at least one major biological warfare facility off the new York coast, I think, deployed (what other reason?) storage of biological weapons, nukes of varying type, binary chemical weapons, space-based weapons research, satellites and eqp, gallium-arsenide and newer rad-hardened electronics pervasive throughout all levels of military, $ubmarine fleets, new ships, growth and maint. of SOSUS Networks, spying-related eqp, personnel, massive payouts to mercenaries/“contractor” corps, handouts to supposed mil allies whose only function in life is to start trouble, building dozens of (now cancelled) F-22 air-superiority fighters, claimed to cost a buck-and-a-half each, but actually, when fully outfitted with latest engines/nozzles, ~$350-million dollars for each plane, massive payouts to mil corporations for unneeded and severely dumbass projects like the anti-ballistic missile systems. Not included but ought to be: unpaid monies owed to SE Asia to locate and remove millions of air-dropped still-active landmines from the Vietnam era. Then there are the several US military academies, salaries and pensions for everyone involved in the war machine, active military-status surveillance of any communications by Americans, reasonless wars and occupations, on and on. I could continue with this for another 200 words but the point is, Young Man, that the murky and manifold military budgets are, in my view, incinerating our national wealth at a rate far higher than the 40% of budget figure you doubted. Certainly ending ALL of these moronic enterprises would pay for real needs. Then, we could finally, in bipartisan fashion, announce to the world, “Look, we’re not crazy any more!”

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By stan van houcke, August 1, 2011 at 12:39 am Link to this comment

I quote lafayette:

‘You are indulging in polemic, yet again. The distribution shown in the link
cited is Highly Debatable.’

well Lafayette, everything is debatable, but in this case refute the arguments
they give here about ‘the government deception.’
http://www.warresisters.org/sites/
default/files/FY2012piechart-bw.pdf

the 20 percent of the federal budget you come up with, is not all, it is the
budget of the ‘defence department,’ which is only part of the money which
flows to your ‘national security.’  indeed, ‘be careful of your information
sources.’ and finally, what is wrong with a polemic? the public in the usa should
have started a polemic long ago about their country’s expansionism. they have
been too long too silent, and that’s one of the reasons the middle class is
suffering now.

I quote: lew ciefer:

‘A European who doesn’t like Jews—that’s original! Do you realize Stan that if it
weren’t for you Europeans there would probably not be a State of Israel today?’

well lew, I wrote a book about that fact. that is to say: I tried to state this in a
more sophisticated way. but remember, not every jew is a zionist, and not every
zionist is a jew. there is quite a substantial number of jews who even dislike
zionism. anyway, most jews still prefer to live in their own countries instead of
in the ‘jewish state.’

to give only one example of a jew who dislikes zionism: Avraham Burg was
speaker of Israel’s Knesset in 1999-2003 and is a former chairman of the
Jewish Agency for Israel. he wrote a fascinating book about in which he warned
for ‘the end of Zionism. Israel must shed its illusions and choose between racist
oppression and democracy.’
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/
2003/sep/15/comment

the book is named: ‘The Holocaust Is Over; We Must Rise From its Ashes.’
http://www.amazon.com/Holocaust-Over-Must-Rise-
Ashes/dp/0230618979/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid;=
1312181619&sr=8-1

now lew, if you can’t stand the facts don’t ask for them. the holocaust is indeed
over, and don’t use the jews to project your hatred on arabs, and other
muslims. you know that also arabs are a semitic people. as a European with
jewish in-laws I am highly aware of the fact that many modern philosemites use
the muslims to get rid of their age old christian antisemitism. this is not only a
european phenomenon. antisemitism was and still is widespread in the
christian world, also in the usa. for instance, even after the second world war
yale university knew mandatory quotas on jewish students, and ‘antisemitism in
America is not only the preserve of extremists. It is alive and well among the
seemingly civilised middle class’
http://www.newstatesman.com/199908230006

so do your homework before you start a discusion. In the meantime we are
confronted with the fact that the zionist extremists in Israel keep going on
stealing palestinian land, although international law forbids this, while the
united nations wants it to be stopped immediately, and even the american
president now. but because of the american congress the zionists can go on
with their terror. you see, the american foreign politics, the american violence
and its expansionism, and its use of mercenary states is seen by many people
on earth as a total disaster. they would prefer to be left alone,to see the
americans spend their money on education, health care, housing, they would
like the americans to stop making war, and stop destroying their life.

This is the message I am trying to convey.

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By Lafayette, July 31, 2011 at 10:32 pm Link to this comment

JUST THE FACTS

stan: see for chart:
http://www.warresisters.org/
pages/piechart.htm

You are indulging in polemic, yet again. The distribution shown in the link cited is Highly Debatable.

The US Budget is shown here. Military spending is high enough, in proportion to the total, at 20%

And any reductions could be better spent, with better value, on Stimulus Spending that puts people back to Real Work once again.

Be careful of your information sources.

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By diamond, July 31, 2011 at 9:21 pm Link to this comment

Does the United States spend 40% of its budget on the military? Probably not. But it does spend a trillion dollars a year which is outrageous.And what has it got to show for it? Is America safer because of its invasions and occupations? Do Americans feel safer? No, they don’t. In fact they’re scared to death. And if you do this kind of thing to other people you should be scared.


HAITI   1891   Troops,  Black revolt on Navassa defeated.

IDAHO   1892   Troops,  Army suppresses silver miners’ strike.

HAWAII   1893 (-?)  Naval, troops   Independent kingdom overthrown, annexed.

CHICAGO   1894   Troops,  Breaking of rail strike, 34 killed.

CHINA   1894-95   Naval, troops,  Marines land in Sino-Japanese War

KOREA   1894-96   Troops,  Marines kept in Seoul during war.

PANAMA   1895   Troops, naval   Marines land in Colombian province.

PHILIPPINES   1898-1910 (-?)  Naval, troops   Seized from Spain, killed 600,000 Filipinos

CUBA   1898-1902 (-?)  Naval, troops   Seized from Spain, still hold Navy base.

GUAM   1898 (-?)  Naval, troops   Seized from Spain, still use as base.

NICARAGUA   1898   Troops   Marines land at port of San Juan del Sur.

SAMOA   1899 (-?)  Troops   Battle over succession to throne.

NICARAGUA   1899   Troops   Marines land at port of Bluefields.

OKLAHOMA   1901   Troops   Army battles Creek Indian revolt.

PANAMA   1901-14   Naval, troops   Broke off from Colombia 1903, annexed Canal Zone; Opened canal 1914.

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC   1903-04   Troops   U.S. interests protected in Revolution.

KOREA   1904-05   Troops   Marines land in Russo-Japanese War.

CUBA   1906-09   Troops   Marines land in democratic election.

NICARAGUA   1907   Troops   “Dollar Diplomacy” protectorate set up.

PANAMA   1908   Troops   Marines intervene in election contest.

NICARAGUA   1910   Troops   Marines land in Bluefields and Corinto.

CHINA   1911-41   Naval, troops   Continuous occupation with flare-ups.

CUBA   1912   Troops,  U.S. interests protected in civil war.

PANAMA   1912   Troops,  Marines land during heated election.

NICARAGUA   1912-33   Troops, bombing   10-year occupation, fought guerillas

HAITI   1914-34   Troops, bombing   19-year occupation after revolts.

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC   1916-24   Troops,  8-year Marine occupation.

WORLD WAR I   1917-18   Naval, troops,  Ships sunk, fought Germany for 1 1/2 years.

RUSSIA   1918-22   Naval, troops   Five landings to fight Bolsheviks

HONDURAS   1919   Troops   Marines land during election campaign.

YUGOSLAVIA   1919   Troops/Marines   intervene for Italy against Serbs in Dalmatia.

GUATEMALA   1920   Troops   2-week intervention against unionists.

TURKEY   1922   Troops   Fought nationalists in Smyrna.

CHINA   1922-27   Naval, troops   Deployment during nationalist revolt.

CHINA   1927-34   Troops   Marines stationed throughout the country.

EL SALVADOR   1932   Naval   Warships sent during Marti revolt.

WORLD WAR II   1941-45   Naval, troops, bombing, nuclear   Hawaii bombed, fought Japan, Italy and
Germany for 3 years; first nuclear war.

IRAN   1946   Nuclear threat   Soviet troops told to leave north.

PHILIPPINES   1948-54   Command operation   CIA directs war against Huk Rebellion.

KOREA   1951-53 (-?)  Troops, naval, bombing , nuclear threats   U.S./So. Korea fights China/No. Korea to stalemate; A-bomb threat in 1950, and against China in 1953. Still have bases.

IRAN   1953   Command Operation   CIA overthrows democracy, installs Shah.

LEBANON   l958   Troops, naval   Army & Marine occupation against rebels.

VIETNAM   l960-75   Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats   Fought South Vietnam revolt & North Vietnam; one million killed in longest U.S. war; atomic bomb threats in l968 and l969.

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By Go Right Young Man, July 31, 2011 at 7:55 pm Link to this comment

Anarcissie,

Great.  Why Iceland?

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By Anarcissie, July 31, 2011 at 6:42 pm Link to this comment

How about Iceland?

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By Go Right Young Man, July 31, 2011 at 5:56 pm Link to this comment

Anarcissie, - “What matters is who winds up with what.”

-

Correct.  I come down on the side of the United States rather than China, India, Russia, Turkey, North Korea, Iran, Germany, Denmark, Britain, France, Mexico or Saudi Arabia.

There will be a industrial/economic “super power”.  It is human nature at its most basic.  Which nation do you choose to support for the position?

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By Anarcissie, July 31, 2011 at 5:42 pm Link to this comment

I think what we want to look at is the final distribution (consumption, capitalization or waste) of the common social product.  Much of the business about taxes, wages, profits and the Federal budget is mummery.  What matters is who winds up with what.

Don’t forget it add in, or rather subtract out, destruction of the environment, social order, people’s lives.

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Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, July 31, 2011 at 5:38 pm Link to this comment

Thank you again, ardee, for driving home the fact that U.S. military spending today stands at 4.7% of GDP (25% of budget).  I challenge anyone to prove you wrong.

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By ardee, July 31, 2011 at 5:09 pm Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind, July 31 at 2:47 pm

Yet another convert to the new art of the turbo scroll…..welcome aboard, ITW.

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By Lew Ciefer, July 31, 2011 at 2:49 pm Link to this comment

By stan van houcke, July 30 at 10:04 am

is not difficult. most of the money goes to the (wink, wink) rogue state israel,
and is totally contraproductive for the united states itself. israel has become a
liability, and is not an asset anymore, if ever it was one. the prize americans are going to pay for
this ‘aid’ is huge, as you will see in the foreseeable future. it is the tail which wags
the dog now. i expect this answer is satisfactory for you. by the way, this
foreign ‘aid’ is a fraction of what the american corporations squeeze out of the
third world. it is not so much aid, it is more an investment to secure american
interests abroad.  and don’t forget the warning of mark twain who pointed out
more than a century ago that one cannot have an empire abroad and remain
a democracy at home.

Way to go Stan, you avoided answering a legitimate question that was in line with your previous data points in order to spew against the Jews and Israel. A European who doesn’t like Jews—that’s original! Do you realize Stan that if it weren’t for you Europeans there would probably not be a State of Israel today?

Let’s try again: What is the annual expenditure of working American’s sweat, converted to dollars and given in foreign aid by the U.S. Oligarch? Numbers Stan, just like you did with GRYM.

This may come as a shock Stan, so please brace yourself. The U.S. isn’t a democracy. It was never intended to be a democracy. It was designed to be a representative republic and one whose Founders warned the citizenry of the evils of corporations. Presently, the U.S. is more an oligarchal collectivist police state. It’s only a shell of its former self and the Oligarch is working at a fever pitch to dismantle what little remains and turn it into a carbon copy of a loser European state. Complete with whiners, effeminate cheese, and flaccid bread.

Please relax about the debt ceiling—it’s political theatre. They will raise it, they have always raised it. They simply have to put on a show while figuring out how to spin a huge tax increase on the working class as making the undefined ‘rich’ pay. Raising the debt ceiling and heavier taxation on the working class is the wrong thing to do; especially in times of record unemployment. So you can rest assured that that is exactly what the government will do.

Foreign aid is not all bad for the country whose resources are harvested Stan. How much American aid helped to rebuild the shambles that was Europe after the U.S. had to go in and save you from yourselves because of your hatred of Jews?

Those numbers please. And if you like you can break it down into nations, states, etc. that’ll be just fine.

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By Inherit The Wind, July 31, 2011 at 2:47 pm Link to this comment

ardee, July 31 at 7:03 am Link to this comment

stan van houcke, July 31 at 6:07 am Link to this comment

young man,

this is not an answer to the question I posed to you. to have a real debate you also
have to answer questions of your opponent.

You are new here, so you do not yet recognize a pattern. This poster runs away from real debate and especially when ones responses gut his fantasies.

Next you will be asking him for links to his suppositions…..hee.

******

In short, what Ardee’s saying is: Troll Alert! Troll Alert!

Don’t waste your time attempting a debate with some who will change the rules, obfuscate and in every way possible try to delay a thread from addressing a problem.  It’s a consistent and constant pattern, almost like a mole placed here to disrupt discussion.

Let him rant, and ignore him…that’s your best bet.

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stan van houcke's avatar

By stan van houcke, July 31, 2011 at 12:44 pm Link to this comment

never trust the figures of a government that uses violence for political goals.

here is the reality:

‘U.S. Military Spending vs. The World
U.S. military spending – Dept. of Defense plus nuclear weapons (in $billions) –
is equal to the military spending of the next 15 countries combined.
These numbers show military expenditures for each country. Some say that U.S.
military spending will naturally be higher because it has the highest Gross
Domestic Product (GDP) of any country. The United States accounts for 47
percent of the world’s total military spending, however the U.S.’s share of the
world’s GDP is about 21 percent. Also note that of the top 15 countries shown,
at least 12 are considered allies of the U.S. The U.S. outspends Iran and North
Korea by a ratio of 72 to one.’

http://www.warresisters.org/
pages/piechart.htm

‘The Government Deception
The pie chart below is the government view of the budget. This is a distortion
of how our income tax dollars are spent because it includes Trust Funds (e.g.,
Social Security), and the expenses of past military spending are not
distinguished from nonmilitary spending. For a more accurate representation of
how your Federal income tax dollar is really spent, see the large chart (top).’

see for chart:
http://www.warresisters.org/
pages/piechart.htm

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By Go Right Young Man, July 31, 2011 at 11:56 am Link to this comment

grokker,

This alleged “dialog” is long past inane.

Here’s the rough breakdown of federal spending.

Total Spending   $3.8 trillion  
    Pensions   $0.8 trillion - 21%
    Health Care $0.9 trillion - 23%
    Education   $0.1 trillion*   
    Defense   $1.0 trillion - 25%
    Welfare   $0.5 trillion - 13%

Remainder - 18%
Defense spending is 4.7% of GDP

Source: Congressional Budget Office.

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stan van houcke's avatar

By stan van houcke, July 31, 2011 at 10:49 am Link to this comment

groker,

let me put it a bit crude so you as a american who does not understand what I
as a european am trying to convey with the figure I gave. as a journalist who has
travelled for four decades all around the world to see how the western
politics work out in the daily life of many people on earth I conclude that many of them are fed up with the american insecurity about their so called ‘national
security.’ they realize what most americans seem not to realize, which is
in the words of former representative Forrest A. Harness the following:

‘Government propaganda distorts facts with such authority that the person
becomes prejudiced or biased in the direction which the Government
propaganda wish to lead national thinking.’

Ten years later general douglas macarthur stated:

‘Our government has kept us in a perpetual state of fear—with the cry of a
grave national emergency. yet, in retrospect, these diasters seem never to have
happened, seem never to have been quite real.’

It was with reason that your former president eisenhower warned against what
he called ‘the military-industrial complex’ which has taken over the empire.

you see, groker, your feeling of ‘national insecurity’ is feeding the huge military
budget. in the meantime most people in the world want the yankees to go
home, like you would if you were an arab, or a south-american, or one of the
people in one of the 130 countries were the usa has in total 737 military bases.

go home and spend your money on education, health-care, housing and all
other things which make up a civilization. I hope I made myself clear this time.

more information you can find here:
http://www.abodia.com/1/War/
Addicted to War.htm

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By stan van houcke, July 31, 2011 at 10:15 am Link to this comment

grokker,

if you quote me do it right. I wrote this: ‘the military industrial complex sucks
up more than 40 percent of the federal
budget.’

now read this:

‘US federal budget 2012 fiscal year.

MILITARY: 48% AND $1,372 BILLION
15% Non-MILITARY: 52% AND $1,475 BILLION


HOW THESE FIGURES
WERE DETERMINED
“Current military” includes Dept. of Defense
($707 billion) and the military por-
tion from other departments as noted in current
military box above ($162 billion). “Past military”
represents veterans’ bene?ts plus 80% of the inter-
est on the debt.* For further explanation, please go
to http://www.warresisters.org.
These ?gures are from an analysis of detailed
tables in the Analytical Perspectives book of the
Budget of the United States Government, Fiscal
Year 2012. The ?gures are federal funds, which do
not include trust funds — such as Social Security
— that are raised and spent separately from in-
come taxes. What you pay (or don’t pay) by April
18, 2011, goes to the federal funds portion of the
budget. The government practice of combining
Trust and Federal funds began during the Vietnam
War, thus making the human needs portion of the budget seem larger and the
military portion
smaller.
*Analysts differ on how much of the debt stems from the
military; other groups estimate 50% to 60%. We use 80%
because we believe if there had been no military spending most
(if not all) of the national debt would h ave been eliminated.’

http://www.warresisters.org/sites/
default/files/FY2012piechart-bw.pdf

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By grokker, July 31, 2011 at 9:53 am Link to this comment

Stan,

So it’s not 40% of the budget as you originally stated?

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stan van houcke's avatar

By stan van houcke, July 31, 2011 at 9:39 am Link to this comment

I quote:

‘Too much apples compared to oranges here.’

??

in fact it is all quite simpel: the money you spend on the military cannot go to
education, health care, housing etc. so if ‘‘The baseline defense budget comprises
20 percent of the overall federal budget and 50 percent of the discretionary
portion,’  it means that a huge amount of taxpayers’ money disappears to
something which is vaguely called ‘the national security.’ to put it differently: for
your so called ‘security’ you have to hand in part of your security of jobs, housing,
education and health care.

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RenZo's avatar

By RenZo, July 31, 2011 at 9:34 am Link to this comment

Mr Adler states that “The patent law is the reason that health care is so expensive”. This is patently wrong. Research costs money. Profit spurs research. Indecent exhorbitant profits might make health care more costly, but drug companies are not the major reason for health care costs in the US. Insurance companies are the main profiteers, the main bottleneck to healthcare for all, and the main enemy of sick persons.

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By jimbob, July 31, 2011 at 9:30 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Citizens United is our problem, not Taft-Hartley. We
have to get money out of politics to the extent
possible. The British have a system where free media
access is guaranteed to legitimate candidates and
campaign season is trimmed to a reasonable period of
time. Last time I looked, they have a pretty good
democracy going on, over there.

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By grokker, July 31, 2011 at 9:18 am Link to this comment

Practically all of the posters on this thread prove the absurdity of statistics combined with intent. Too much apples compared to oranges here (GDP as opposed to % of budget) so no communication seems to be occurring. Sad.

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Lafayette's avatar

By Lafayette, July 31, 2011 at 8:49 am Link to this comment

MY SOLUTION

RD: The United States spends far too much on military hardware.  4.7% of GDP is a whopping sum.

You think that is bad? Health Care is projected to reach 20% of GDP by 2020. It’s already around 17%.

Which is worse? The military that kills or the health care that prevents deaths? I’m not so sure, both are so costly.

Either way, there is a LOT of tax-dollars that are being wasted.

So, I propose, we put forward Progressive Agenda that incorporates (for starters) the following:
* Promises to chop DoD by 10% a year for four years
* Institutes a Public Option that mandates Health Care fees fixed by a National Health System (to which doctors can belong or not, as they like).
* Raises marginal taxes back to 70/90% (pre-Reagan) levels in two jumps, first to 50% (in 2013) and another to 75% (in 2014) - and cut all extraneous deduction loop-holes.
* Raises Capital Gains rates, but more moderately.
* Stimulus Spends on Infrastructural Programs that create jobs. There are plenty of ideas (pollution control, hi-speed trains, Teacher Assistants, etc.)
* And finally, pass a Balanced-Budget Act that achieves that goal by increasing taxation and reducing non-social expenditures (as outlined above).

MY POINT

Let’s excise the corporate welfare from the Federal Budget for Private Health Care Insurance and the M-I-C and move it over to measures that improve personal well-being (meaning Social Investments).

POST SCRIPTUM

And all of the above propositions have a snow-ball’s chance in hell of being passed without reforming our present political leadership. Which is not Mission Impossible but pretty damn difficult.

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D.R. Zing's avatar

By D.R. Zing, July 31, 2011 at 8:13 am Link to this comment

Dear stan van houcke:

I want to marry you, figuratively speaking of course.

Thank you for placing those figures on this post. It strikes at the charade of the Republican tea party, the charade of the television news media, and the charade of the current masters debating the budget crisis: we’re blowing our money blowing people away. 

For those who missed it here is Stan Van Houcke’s quote that should be on every billboard in America:

‘US federal budget 2012 fiscal year.

MILITARY: 48% AND $1,372 BILLION
15% Non-MILITARY: 52% AND $1,475 BILLION


HOW THESE FIGURES
WERE DETERMINED
“Current military” includes Dept. of Defense
($707 billion) and the military por-
tion from other departments as noted in current
military box above ($162 billion). “Past military”
represents veterans’ bene?ts plus 80% of the inter-
est on the debt.* For further explanation, please go
to http://www.warresisters.org.
These ?gures are from an analysis of detailed
tables in the Analytical Perspectives book of the
Budget of the United States Government, Fiscal
Year 2012. The ?gures are federal funds, which do
not include trust funds — such as Social Security
— that are raised and spent separately from in-
come taxes. What you pay (or don’t pay) by April
18, 2011, goes to the federal funds portion of the
budget. The government practice of combining
Trust and Federal funds began during the Vietnam
War, thus making the human needs portion of the budget seem larger and the
military portion
smaller.
*Analysts differ on how much of the debt stems from the
military; other groups estimate 50% to 60%. We use 80%
because we believe if there had been no military spending most
(if not all) of the national debt would h ave been eliminated.’

http://www.warresisters.org/sites/
default/files/FY2012piechart-bw.pdf

now answer my questions, such as: why did you suggest, try to give the
imprerssion, that the usa is not spending much on the military?

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Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, July 31, 2011 at 8:09 am Link to this comment

ardee,

The United States spends far too much on military hardware.  4.7% of GDP is a whopping sum.  Imagine what they would come to at 40%.

Thank you for the help.  Much appreciated.

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By RenZo, July 31, 2011 at 7:51 am Link to this comment

Excellent argument. Very good proposal. BUT, this is all just theater: there is NO WAY that Repubes leadership will be allowed to let the ‘full faith and credit’ of everything behind Wall St turn into greece. The debt ceiling will be reset. Both sides will brag about their triumphs and the rich will once again fade into the background of staying rich.

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By ardee, July 31, 2011 at 7:39 am Link to this comment

As is their wont, righties lie by telling partial truths and creating an entire ideology upon those half-truths.

The crux of our tax problems lie in ones fair share of paid taxes, in loopholes created strictly to avoid said taxes by and for the wealthiest and their corporations.

Now we read that the USA spends an equitable amount of its GDP on the military, another half canard purposely avoiding the true picture to create a false impression:


from Wiki:
1 United States   687,105,000,000   4.7%
2 People’s Republic of China     114,300,000,000   2.2%
3 France       61,285,000,000   2.5%
4 United Kingdom 57,424,000,000   2.7%
5 Russia       52,586,000,000   4.3%
6 Japan       51,420,000,000   1.0%
7 Germany       46,848,000,000   1.4%
8 Saudi Arabia   42,917,000,000   11.2%
9 Italy       38,198,000,000   1.8%
10 India       34,816,000,000   2.8%
.

Please forgive the formatting but the fact of a percentage fails to note the real fact of the overly excessive amount we the people spend on instruments of death and destruction, way, way, way more than anyone else.

In an era when we cannot afford to educate our children, care for our seniors and ourselves, maintain our infrastructure the lies and distortions from the right, however couched in lying by omission , fail to be honorable, fail to engage in honest debate and fail to produce real solutions to real problems.

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RayLan's avatar

By RayLan, July 31, 2011 at 7:07 am Link to this comment

In the unlikely event that the debt ceiling will not be raised - what the rich do won’t much matter - but the Repugs will have a whole lot of egg on their face.
Wall Street will reel from the shcck - since the Treasury Bill is the universal benchmark of all traded securities.
The stupid pitbull desperate tactics of the Right that holds the credit rating of the nation hostage to their selfish super-capitalist anti-government agenda betrays their unethical and actually anti-democratic outlook.

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By ardee, July 31, 2011 at 7:03 am Link to this comment

stan van houcke, July 31 at 6:07 am Link to this comment

young man,

this is not an answer to the question I posed to you. to have a real debate you also
have to answer questions of your opponent.

You are new here, so you do not yet recognize a pattern. This poster runs away from real debate and especially when ones responses gut his fantasies.

Next you will be asking him for links to his suppositions…..hee.

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Lafayette's avatar

By Lafayette, July 31, 2011 at 6:59 am Link to this comment

stan: ... just stand on one of the many war-cemetaries in europe and read their names and one realizes how a heroic a nation can be,

Been there, done that. I have an uncle buried in Northern France who never came home. I have another who did, but never would answer my questions about the war.

Yes, what is particularly impressive is to understand that most came from the heartland of America to die in a foreign country that they would likely never even have visited.

Why did they come? Because someone told them to go? No, they mostly volunteered.

They came because they believed that Nazism was a major threat to mankind – and they knew nothing of the Halocaust. But when they did finally, after the war, they knew full well that what they had accomplished was right and good.

The Spielberg series Band of Brothers is being televised once again this summer in France. It shows full well the horrors of war. We know, or should know, what an evil war can be – and therefore why we should avoid it.

And yet, we continue to elect leaders who want their names to go down vaingloriously in the history books as “defenders of liberty”. Though I rather doubt that is how history is going to treat Dubya.

But it won’t stop such individuals from trying. That is, until we stop electing them.

… and still it is able to destroy itself by mere stupidity.


Well, were aren’t “destroyed” yet. We’re taking our time getting there. ;^)

Besides, stupidity is pretty common nowadays – there’s plenty of it going around. For instance, just look at Norway …

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Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, July 31, 2011 at 6:38 am Link to this comment

Lafayette, - “Avoid ad hominems and polemics.  It’s not easy, but they lead nowhere except down a visceral rat-hole.”

-

Well put.

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stan van houcke's avatar

By stan van houcke, July 31, 2011 at 6:28 am Link to this comment

lafayette

the history of the united states is fascinating for a european. the usa started as an
offshoot of the christian calvinist culture. conquering space has something heroic
as well as absurd. never to root, always to be mentally and physically mobilized, to
act as alexander the great, searching for something, which nobody can precisely
formulate, has a promethean aspect to it for which man has to pay a huge price.
born just after the war I never forget that it were young american soldiers who
died for my freedom. just stand on one of the many war-cemetaries in europe and
read their names and one realizes how a heroic a nation can be, and still it is able
to destroy itself by mere stupidity.

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Lafayette's avatar

By Lafayette, July 31, 2011 at 6:13 am Link to this comment

Stan, even if we disagree this time around, I welcome personally the opinion of Europeans on this forum. Most readers are American and they should have a balanced view of European opinions.

Both worlds have much to learn from one another. As regards Social Justice for its people, America has a LOT to learn from Europe.

Hint: Avoid ad hominems and polemics. It’s not easy, but they lead nowhere except down a visceral rat-hole. Been there, done that ...

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stan van houcke's avatar

By stan van houcke, July 31, 2011 at 6:07 am Link to this comment

young man,

this is not an answer to the question I posed to you. to have a real debate you also
have to answer questions of your opponent.

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Lafayette's avatar

By Lafayette, July 31, 2011 at 5:58 am Link to this comment

COMMEUPPANCE

With their stonewalling on the fictitious necessity of Debt Reduction, the Replicants are shooting themselves in the foot. Most Americans would prefer were there compromise and not conflict. See here .

Particularly when seniors miss their August retirement check. They will not understand why the Replicants think it is an “undeserved entitlement”.

Make my day ... there will be comeuppance to pay for their recalcitrance in next year’s elections.

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stan van houcke's avatar

By stan van houcke, July 31, 2011 at 5:49 am Link to this comment

young man,

because you seem to have problems with reading, let me give you as concise as
possible this information:

‘US federal budget 2012 fiscal year.

MILITARY: 48% AND $1,372 BILLION
15% Non-MILITARY: 52% AND $1,475 BILLION


HOW THESE FIGURES
WERE DETERMINED
“Current military” includes Dept. of Defense
($707 billion) and the military por-
tion from other departments as noted in current
military box above ($162 billion). “Past military”
represents veterans’ bene?ts plus 80% of the inter-
est on the debt.* For further explanation, please go
to http://www.warresisters.org.
These ?gures are from an analysis of detailed
tables in the Analytical Perspectives book of the
Budget of the United States Government, Fiscal
Year 2012. The ?gures are federal funds, which do
not include trust funds — such as Social Security
— that are raised and spent separately from in-
come taxes. What you pay (or don’t pay) by April
18, 2011, goes to the federal funds portion of the
budget. The government practice of combining
Trust and Federal funds began during the Vietnam
War, thus making the human needs portion of the budget seem larger and the
military portion
smaller.
*Analysts differ on how much of the debt stems from the
military; other groups estimate 50% to 60%. We use 80%
because we believe if there had been no military spending most
(if not all) of the national debt would h ave been eliminated.’

http://www.warresisters.org/sites/
default/files/FY2012piechart-bw.pdf

now answer my questions, such as: why did you suggest, try to give the
imprerssion, that the usa is not spending much on the military?

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Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, July 31, 2011 at 5:32 am Link to this comment

stan,

Must you be an azz to make your point?

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stan van houcke's avatar

By stan van houcke, July 31, 2011 at 5:22 am Link to this comment

young man,

for my answer read my earlier reactions. i understand it is a lot of information for
you, but try anyway.

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Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, July 31, 2011 at 5:19 am Link to this comment

stan,

You’re here to display your superior intellect and solve the world’s problems.  I get that.

Perhaps you could focus for a minute and answer, what should be, a simple question.  Does the United States spend 40% of its budget on the military?

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Lafayette's avatar

By Lafayette, July 31, 2011 at 5:18 am Link to this comment

SVH/WAW:  it is time to stop defining trade as the control of markets for our surplus products and control of raw materials for our factories. it is time to stop depending so narrowly—in our thinking as well as in our practice—upon an informal empire for our well-being and welfare

I do not know this WAW - but he seems like a real wanker.

It is both facetious and naïve to think that there is any real American hegemony either politically or economically around the world. Besides, it seems you are quoting from texts that are highly dated and therefore historical relevant but presently irrelevant.

I was brought to Europe by an American multinational and I have been around for quite a few decades to observe the two and how they have develop both comparatively but apart. I can even name American multinationals that have no longer any presence in Europe.

If you are intimating that Hollywood has an exaggerated societal impact upon Europe, there I would agree with you. Hollywood learned long ago how to tell a good story, which is why its films are popular in Europe. But their real impact … I’m very dubious. (Anecdote: A Frenchman made a French court laugh when he addressed the chief judge as “Votre Honeur” (Your Honor) when she should have been addressed as “Mme. La Presidente”.  Everybody new why he had made his mistake.)

The only vestige of American influence in Europe is the odd summer festival of Jazz or Gospel Singing or Country Music – all of which are good fun. I am very well linked into the American community here and we don’t spend out time – believe me – lamenting about how American influence has deteriorated in France or Europe.

</blockquote> so the first step is dismantling this moloch of a warmachine you all have build up. </blockquote>

Ah ha … at last common ground!

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly, we should diminish the influence of the M-I-C and the DoD’s Budget. And shift the spending towards more Public Services in order to enhance Social Justice.

But that would mean that Europe would have to assume more of its defense, a thought that does not leave European leaders terribly enthralled. Europeans did not think that our war machine was a “moloch” whilst the Russian Bear was sitting on your doorstep, did they? In fact, that war machine cost you zip; nada, niente, nixt, rien.

And when there’s a terrorist bombing in a café somewhere (say, Amsterdam? ;^) that kills people, will you (plural) think it just al Qaeda “expressing its opinion”?

You can’t have your cake AND eat it. So choose between the two.

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stan van houcke's avatar

By stan van houcke, July 31, 2011 at 4:52 am Link to this comment

i quote you, young man:

‘I’m sorry.  I can’t read through all of your posts.  You’re thoughts and arguments
are all over the place.’

well, this is a good example of overstretch. if you can’t handle my limited
information how can you comprehend what really is going on?

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By diamond, July 31, 2011 at 3:51 am Link to this comment

You can get a pretty good idea of the true situation when you understand that Michelle Bachmann is a tax lawyer by trade. She made her money helping the rich and dodgy to avoid paying their taxes. Mitt Romney, who is always lecturing Obama on the economy, made his money buying out leveraged properties. These people and their Tea Party, lunatic, brownshirt footsoldiers are the problem and they can never be the solution.

And the bleating of GRYM about the virtues and sheer awesomeness of the present system would be funny if it wasn’t so tragic. The thing to remember about the Tea Party is that not only are they infamous liars themselves but their ‘brand name’ is also based on a lie. The tea thrown into Boston Harbour had had taxes on it reduced from one shilling to threepence a pound. Tea had never been cheaper in New England than it was at the time and most of the excises on other products had been removed to defuse the situation. It didn’t help: the forerunners of the Tea Party still put together a bill refusing to pay even the much smaller tax.The people who threw the tea into Boston Harbour were the smugglers, not irate citizens, because they stood to lose out from the reduced tax. And those who carried out the tea dumping dressed as Indians hoping that the Indians would be blamed if it all went to hell and someone might face jail time. Not only a lie but a false flag operation and this is the golden age of morality the Tea Party wants to return to. One thing is certain, if Michelle Bachmann was living in that golden age she wouldn’t be a tax lawyer because women were second class citizens who didn’t go to university.

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Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, July 31, 2011 at 3:50 am Link to this comment

stan,

I’m sorry.  I can’t read through all of your posts.  You’re thoughts and arguments are all over the place.

I’m hoping you now understand that the United States does not spend 40% of its budget on the military.  That is not to say I agree or disagree with the size of the military budget.

Good luck to you.

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By Marian Griffith, July 31, 2011 at 3:01 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

@Lafayette
—-For as long as TopManagement focuses its management purview upon Wall Street equity values, which determine its own Vested Interests, then the interests of the Workforce clearly come last.—-

And here you have reached the crux of the matter.

Wallstreet and the excessive focus on stock value.

I might add fractional reserve banking to that list though it is more of a contributing factor than a cause.
Stock values are only a small, and easily manipulated, indicator of the ‘health’ of a company but we have come to accept them not only as the important but as the only grade against which value is measured. It even works two ways as we are encouraged by Wallstreet to consider something valuable if the stock values are raising, but also to view everything as worthless if it does not have a stock value.
It is easily understandable why such a system came to blossom in the USA (which for the longest time did not have a banking system in most of the country that would allow companies to borrow money and therefor forced them to go through the route of shareholders to raise money it needed for operating and expansion (and getting through lean times).
But we have now arrived at a system where everything is measured and determined by the stock value. At the slightest change careers are made or broken, tens of thousands of people lose their job and companies are forced to waste billions worth of assets to artificially inflate the book keeping numbers which in turn control the value assigned to the shares. Companies that are made needlessly vulnerable to economic changes because they are forced to do away with a reserve and go bankrupt in a day when the bank is a bit too slow with extending the credit it needs to operate one day.
Wallstreet now has a trade cycle measured in milisecons. This is of course automated entirely and has nothing at all anymore with what stockbrokers are supposed to do (deciding on the value of a share). Not that stockbrokers were very good at doing their job before, resembling more a herd of lemmings operating on the principle that nobody ever got fired for following the herd.
And it was the expansion of fractional reserve banking that aggravated the inherent problems by creating a huge amount of money. It made lending cheap (unlike before where companies had to consider very carefully about taking a loan to extend their business), fuelled bubbles to much greater size and frequency (every few years instead of once a century or less) and created a ‘financial market’ far far in excess of the ‘traditional economy’. Just one insurance market, not even the biggest, sees the same trade annually as the entirety of trade of goods of the whole world.

And that brings us to the last problem: We have forgotten that there are productive and non-productive transactions, and that the second are a necessary overhead not the whole point of having an economy. Grossly simplified: If I lend you $100 and you pay it back we have created $200 worth of transactions in a financial market but produced nothing economically. If on the other hand buy a product worth $100 of you then we only increased the GDP by $100 but this actually contributed worth (not value) to the economy.
This difference is why fractional reserve banking is so damaging if left unchecked (financial transactions can grow near unlimited, creating daily money flows across the globe of the size of the GDP of medium sized countries, dragging everything tangible with them) and why the trickle down theory, and income disparity, does not work. People can buy only so much in actual goods and more money will not create more demand. It will only assign a bigger number to the value (i.e. cause inflation).

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By stan van houcke, July 31, 2011 at 2:31 am Link to this comment

lafayette,

you state:

‘However you may wish to substantiate the fact that America “exported” its own
peculiar view of US-statism promoting multinational expansion into Europe
(and beyond) to help “reform” Europe into America’s image – I submit that it
just did not work.’

I would say: it did not and it did. europe has adopted psychologically and
ideologically the american way of life, more than you suggest. the same is true for the rest of the world, including china.

but to get back to the empire, the question now has been formulated in 1972
by William Appleman Williams in the following way:

‘it is time to stop defining trade as the control of markets for our surplus
products and control of raw materials for our factories. it is time to stop
depending so narrowly—in our thinking as well as in our practice—upon an
informal empire for our well-being and welfare. it is time to ask ourselves if we
are really so umimaginative that we have to have a frontier in the form of an
informal empire in order to have democracy and prosperity at home. it is time
to say that we can make american society function even better on the basis of
equitable relationships with other people. it is time to stop defining trade as a
weapon against other people with whom we have disagreements. it is time to
start thinking of trade as a means to moderate and alleviate those tensions—
and to improve the life of other people. it is time to stop trying to expand our
exports on the grounds that such a campaign will make foreigners foot the bill
for our military security. it is time instead to concern ourselves with a concerted
effort to halt and then cancel the armaments race.’

it was general eisenhower, your former president, who warned the americans
already in 1961 for what he named ‘the military industrial complex.’ now you
don’t have so much a military industrial complex, as you are one. so the first
step is dismantling this moloch of a warmachine you all have build up. if this can be done in
a peaceful way it would be fantastic. if not, you are facing a huge problem.

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By Lafayette, July 31, 2011 at 1:47 am Link to this comment

svh: That document establishes once and for all the connection between, and the convergence of, the drive for overseas economic expansion and the urge to reform other societies according to American and industrial standards.

However you may wish to substantiate the fact that America “exported” its own peculiar view of US-statism promoting multinational expansion into Europe (and beyond) to help “reform” Europe into America’s image – I submit that it just did not work.

Europe has implemented by means of legislation progressive values of which most American progressives can only dream. Amongst them:
•  Universal Health Care since more than half a century
•  Almost free tuition for Tertiary Education (vocational, college, university)
•  UI that extends way beyond the period of American UI
•  First-owner assistance in finding low-cost interest mortgages of government subsidized housing
•  School year financial subvention of school supplies and books (up to $420 per child in France)
•  Subsidized child-care for working mothers
•  Subsidized care (non-philanthropic dependent) for orphaned children and the disabled by accident or birth
•  Etc., etc., etc.


Indeed, America’s Marshall Plan helped reconstruct Europe. But Europe had the good sense to chose its own political direction – very heavily influenced for a very long while by the fact that the Russian Bear was right on its doorstep.

That threat no longer exists and so Europe can continue in its manifest destiny of expansion. In fact, it has become and will remain one of the Major Poles in a Brave New World of multi-polarity political and economic influence.

American influence in Europe has greatly diminished over recently past decades as an Important Nuclear Menace (to both Europe and America) has ceased to exist.

POST SCRIPTUM

An unimportant variety of that threat remains, but its consequences is residual and related more to terrorism.

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By Lafayette, July 31, 2011 at 1:13 am Link to this comment

INCORPORATED EQUITABILITY

MA: If the parties do not reach an agreement and the deficit is unfunded, the president should use his power to cut funds to right-to-work states and redirect them to states that let unions be.

MA’s exposition of the historical origin of “property rightz” is well done and timely. It shows clearly how they were so unfair to begin with and justifies legislative efforts to correct them.

As much, however, as this suggestion cited above would profit and further empower unions, it is counter-constitutional as regards worker rights. Workers should be allowed to join whichever union they want. There should be no “closed shops”.  (A worker’s membership to whatever union should be considered as privileged/confidential information and protected accordingly.)

I add quickly, however, that neither is there any Constitutional Right for TopManagement to manipulate Net Profits and thusly accord for themselves the lion’s share of the Profit Pie -  to the creation of which all company workers contribute.

Furthermore, the US should progress to the same legislation that numerous Europeans countries have adopted by which a Public Company should reserve at least two chairs (on the Board of Directors) for Workforce equity-owner representatives and to which they are duly elected by said Workforce.

This measure will not change the power-construct of the Board - which heavily favors Management since so many of the Board serve also on other BoD’s. The co-mingling of directorships on BoDs is the most prevalent way that Corporation mutually co-opt one another. (This co-option should be and is balanced by the same information sharing of large national unions. But is that ever enough? I suggest not.)

It will give to the workforce however a voice and a vision at the Board Level. A voice to communicate their sentiments and a vision upon operational matters. This sort of transparency would seem fair and equitable if both Management and its Workforce are to share the responsibility for the company’s ultimate destiny.

For as long as TopManagement focuses its management purview upon Wall Street equity values, which determine its own Vested Interests, then the interests of the Workforce clearly come last.

But how is that fair? Workers are not American citizens who should have equitable rights in a company, particularly if they are its shareholders? And why should the Workforce not benefit from the same Stock Options in compensation of Achieved Objectives as do TopManagement? Where is the reasoning for this unfairness?

The entire matter of equity share-voting is also means by which TopManagement assures its control financially of a company.

POST SCRIPTUM

There is no way in hell that the above measures will be legislated by the present make-up of Congress - Left or Right. Which is why, if fundamental reformation will be accomplished, it will be done by an altogether different Congressional complexion than exists today.

Throw da bums out!

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By stan van houcke, July 31, 2011 at 12:17 am Link to this comment

go right young man,

the context in which the american agression happens has been very well
analyzed by the prominent americasn historian william appleman williams in
‘the tragedy of american diplomacy,’ in which he states:

‘Beginning with the Wilson Administration, and continuing to a steadily
increasing extent, the Government of the United States proceeded to provide
what… the bankers asked – and considerable more. Tax monies collected from
individual citizens came to be used to provide private corporations with loans
and other subsidies for overseas expansion, to create the power to protect
those activities, and even to create reserve funds with which to make cash
guarantees against losses.’ So, privatising the profits and socializing the losses, 
in other words: socialism for the rich.

Appleman Williams writes the following about a famous policys statement of
Roosevelt and Root:

‘That document establishes once and for all the connection between, and the
convergence of, the drive for overseas economic expansion and the urge to
reform other societies according to American and industrial standards. It
likewise removes any doubt about whether or not American leaders were
conscious of the relationship. And finally, it helps clarify the nature and the
dimensions of the tragedy and the terror of American foreign policy that
evolved out of the Open Door Policy.’

that is the reason why uncountable billions of the american taxpayers’ money
are spend on the expansionism of american corporations. what we see now is
something former president hoover already in 1950 warned for: imperial
overstretch, meaning that your empire costs more than it produces, and that,
young man, is the end of the empire as history shows. so, don’t spend all that
money on your military. spend it on the poor and underfed in the united states
itself. spend it on education, housing, health care, well, on all things which are
necessary to create a decent and civilized society.

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By drbhelthi, July 31, 2011 at 12:03 am Link to this comment

“He opted for the weak-minded Hillary/GWBush approach. I’m embarrassed for him.  Vote for any random nut in ‘012.”  anonymous

Compared to the current group of USGOV dictators, any “012 randon nut”
is comparable to a genuine, political scientist.

“-weak-minded Hillary/GWBush approach.” How dare you speak accurately!

I often wonder what “good” “AXIS Hilly” might have accomplished, had
she not become a slave to “Bill´s unusual propensity” and the wealth
of the legitimate members of the Rockefeller clan.

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By stan van houcke, July 30, 2011 at 11:35 pm Link to this comment

and again, young man,

whatever you may claim, all this money can’t go to the necesssary things like
health care, education, housing, helping the poor and all other things which make
up a civilization. so what are you trying to prove? and please don’t evade all the
time my questions, and don’t put words in my mouth. just try to debate, that is
the essence of democracy. try to understand this, and don’t evade the subject with
figures which give a false impression. whuy do you act as an ideologist of the
right?

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