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Why Washington’s Iran Policy Could Lead to Global Disaster

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Posted on Apr 14, 2012
indigoprime (CC-BY)

A bas-relief in the ruins of Persepolis, Iran.

By Juan Cole, TomDispatch

(Page 2)

Faced with the economic damage a sudden interruption of oil imports from Iran would inflict on East Asian economies, the Obama administration has instead attempted to extract pledges of future 10%-20% reductions in return for those U.S. exemptions.  Since it’s easier to make promises than institute a boycott, allies are lining up with pledges. (Even Turkey has gone this route.)

Such vows are almost certain to prove relatively empty.  After all, there are few options for such countries other than continuing to buy Iranian oil unless they can find new sources—unlikely at present, despite Saudi promises to ramp up production—or drastically cut back on energy use, ensuring economic contraction and domestic wrath.

What this means in reality is that the U.S. and Israeli quest to cut off Iran’s exports will probably be a quixotic one.  For the plan to work, oil demand would have to remain steady and other exporters would have to replace Iran’s roughly 2.5 million barrels a day on the global market.  For instance, Saudi Arabia has increased the amount of petroleum it pumps, and is promising a further rise in output this summer in an attempt to flood the market and allow countries to replace Iranian purchases with Saudi ones.

But experts doubt the Saudi ability to do this long term and—most important of all—global demand is not steady.  It’s crucially on the rise in both China and India.  For Washington’s energy blockade to work, Saudi Arabia and other suppliers would have to reliably replace Iran’s oil production and cover increased demand, as well as expected smaller shortfalls caused by crises in places like Syria and South Sudan and by declining production in older fields elsewhere. 

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Otherwise a successful boycott of Iranian petroleum will only put drastic upward pressure on oil prices, as Japan has politely but firmly pointed out to the Obama administration.  The most likely outcome: America’s closest allies and those eager to do more business with the U.S. will indeed reduce imports from Iran, leaving countries like China, India, and others in Asia, Africa, and Latin America to dip into the pool of Iranian crude (possibly at lower prices than the Iranians would normally charge).

Iran’s transaction costs are certainly increasing, its people are beginning to suffer economically, and it may have to reduce its exports somewhat, but the tensions in the Gulf have also caused the price of petroleum futures to rise in a way that has probably offset the new costs the regime has borne.  (Experts also estimate that the Iran crisis has already added 25 cents to every gallon of gas an American consumer buys at the pump.)

Like China, India has declined to bow to pressure from Washington.  The government of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, which depends on India’s substantial Muslim vote, is not eager to be seen as acquiescent to U.S. strong-arm tactics.  Moreover, lacking substantial hydrocarbon resources, and given Singh’s ambitious plans for an annual growth rate of 9%—focused on expanding India’s underdeveloped transportation sector (70% of all petroleum used in the world is dedicated to fuelling vehicles)—Iran is crucial to the country’s future. 

To sidestep Washington, India has worked out an agreement to pay for half of its allotment of Iranian oil in rupees, a soft currency.  Iran would then have to use those rupees on food and goods from India, a windfall for its exporters.  Defying the American president yet again, the Indians are even offering a tax break to Indian firms that trade with Iran.  That country is, in turn, offering to pay for some Indian goods with gold.  Since India runs a trade deficit with the U.S., Washington would only hurt itself if it aggressively sanctioned India.

A History Lesson Ignored

As yet, Iran has shown no signs of yielding to the pressure.  For its leaders, future nuclear power stations promise independence and signify national glory, just as they do for France, which gets nearly 80% of its electricity from nuclear reactors.  The fear in Tehran is that, without nuclear power, a developing Iran could consume all its petroleum domestically, as has happened in Indonesia, leaving the government with no surplus income with which to maintain its freedom from international pressures.

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, May 11, 2012 at 3:45 am Link to this comment

Marshall,

The mountains of evidence of Israeli paranoia of Iran does not justify the daily threats of attack by them and the ongoing acts of war by their murder of Iranian scientists.

Hezbollah is a political party in Lebanon voted in by the people there.  Perhaps they recieve funding by Iran, I don’t know and you only have speculation.  It is no different than Republicans funded by superpacs in this country.

Israel threatens and gets threatened back, I have gotten use to it, you should too.

Report this
americanme's avatar

By americanme, May 10, 2012 at 10:52 am Link to this comment

Marshall:  I suggest you

1.  Put a sock in it and

2.  Skim through the enormous backlog of infallamtory Israeli comments that you seem to have been unable to read.

People like you support invasions of other countries for their resources—you dream of having a Hummer, I suppose.

Report this

By Marshall, May 9, 2012 at 1:37 am Link to this comment

PH - I disagree that Israel is puppet master of US opinion on Iranian nukes.  Polls show that Americans are highly concerned over the issue and my personal concern is not due to Israeli influence, but to the likelihood of aggressive policies from a nuclear-armed Iran, a regional arms race, and the potential for Iranian sponsored nuclear blackmail or terrorism directed at the US or its allies.  And you are correct about my Iran/Iraq war depiction where I meant to say Iran was “barely winning”.

To those who deny Iran’s goal of destroying Israel; it’s a diversion to focus on the veracity of a single “wipe off the map” statement when Iran’s proxy army Hezbollah articulates as the cornerstone of its written manifesto the intention to obliterate Israel.  Iran’s goals are clear no matter how you choose to parse any one of its plethora of inflammatory statements over the years.

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 8, 2012 at 3:48 pm Link to this comment

neither my own nor did I indicate general acceptance of it… you simply pulled that
assumption out of your lying and dull-normal and failing ass….,


how sloppy and stupid are you gonna get and still not slink off in shame, self-
nominated brilliant one?

Report this
americanme's avatar

By americanme, May 8, 2012 at 2:15 pm Link to this comment

You accepted Marshall’s post as your own.

You have once again violated the rules of internet and of this site by posting under two different names on the same thread.

You could provide no evidence of the apocryphal Wipe Israel off the map comment.

I provided evidence that it was never said.

However, my OWN comment is:  Israel OFF the planet NOW!

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 8, 2012 at 1:58 pm Link to this comment

responding to one of your untruthful comments, even when addressed to another
person, does not imply identity.


beyond being a liar and bigot and bilious bit, you’re about dull-normal

Report this
americanme's avatar

By americanme, May 8, 2012 at 1:50 pm Link to this comment

You responded to my post in which I called Marshall a liar.

This is not the first time you’ve been caught with your shorts down forgetting who is you and who are your clones.

And I see you have no evidence, as always, to back up your wild-eyed inventions about Iran.

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 8, 2012 at 1:00 pm Link to this comment

would you mind pointing to where I made such claim…...

if there is such thing,  your mind is a terrible waste

Report this
americanme's avatar

By americanme, May 8, 2012 at 12:52 pm Link to this comment

Now you are claiming the poster Marshall as one of your clones, I see.

Let’s see the evidence of your absurd claims, no-neck.

My evidence is the following, in its English form and still kind of fresh in my mind since I recently read it in La Jornada here:

“Off the Map


Posted on 04/19/2012 by Steve Rendall


Israeli Deputy Prime Minister Dan Meridor acknowledged on Al Jazeera English (4/14/12) that Iranian leaders have never called for Israel to be “wiped” off the map.

Meridor agreed with interviewer Teymoor Nabili’s suggestion that the supposed remarks were never actually made; Iranian leaders, Meridor said,

come basically ideologically, religiously, with the statement that Israel is an unnatural creature, it will not survive. They didn’t say “we’ll wipe it out,” you are right, but [that] it will not survive, it is a cancerous tumor, it should be removed.

Hostile words, to be sure, but not the menacing threat endlessly reported in corporate U.S. media in recent years. (Iran, Israel and “wiped off the map” occur together more than 8,500 times in the Nexis news database in the last seven years.)

Of course, Mideast expert and blogger Juan Cole noted long ago that Ahmadinejad never called for Israel to be wiped off the map, but Meridor’s interview suggests that there is hope this information might finally penetrate the corporate media bubble”
Source:  http://www.fair.org/blog/2012/04/19/now-they-tell-us-iran-didnt-actually-threaten-to-wipe-israel-off-the-map/

Not a fucking word about it “not being a certainty”, no-neck.

LIAR!  You and your sockpuppet/clone Marshall.

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 8, 2012 at 12:32 pm Link to this comment

Ahmadinejad indulges in ugly bigotry toward jews but has been quite careful to
call for the destruction of Israel without unambiguously stating that iran would
attack israel to cause that destruction.

That Iran’s government has issued a long series of threats toward israel, calls for it
to perish, and endless streams of hostility is not at all a lie.


nor id any former intel chief say any of that was a lie…..merely not a certainty.

Report this
americanme's avatar

By americanme, May 8, 2012 at 12:06 pm Link to this comment

Marshall:

I am calling you a liar.

Put your proof that Iran has threatened to annihilate Israel or piss off.

And don’t even bother to come with that old Wipe Israel off the face of the earth lie, either.  The Israelis’ former head of intelligence (sic) admitted last week that it was a complete lie.

Report this
PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, May 8, 2012 at 3:33 am Link to this comment

Marshall,

If it wasn’t for the intense israeli lobbying for the US to attack Iran I doubt we would give the issue the attention is recieves now, it is only by the booga booga parrotted by the primarily jewish neocons what we started the Iraq war, which we know now was based on lies.

I think your depiction of the Iraq - Iran war is somewhat skewed.

http://www.worldology.com/Iraq/iran_iraq_war.htm

Report this

By Marshall, May 7, 2012 at 10:20 pm Link to this comment

PH - You are correct that there’s a small Jewish community in Iran that’s free to practice its religion, though there are often reports of government discrimination.  But it’s clearly the state of Israel that the Iranian government randomly threatens with annihilation.

Our sabre rattling is not about Iran signing NPT or not; it’s about the belief that Iran is building nuclear weapons.  We do indeed have every right to act in our national interests to prevent them from succeeding.  There’s no question about that.

If you’re comparing Iran’s military to that of past Iraq, remember that Iran was losing the Iran/Iraq war at a time when Iraq wasn’t even a formidable military power.

Israel’s gripe with Iran is also our gripe, so it’s natural that we’d work with them to resolve it.

Re - your youtube china link: somehow a random professor’s opinion on a Falun Gong website fails to convince me of anything other than that you unquestioningly copy/paste other people’s propaganda.

Report this
americanme's avatar

By americanme, May 7, 2012 at 5:54 pm Link to this comment

Too bad you were unable to learn anything about logic when you taught it.

Apparently large state universities in the US like where I taught in two departments and conducted research in a third are not well-regarded by your ilk?

All I can say is what a come-down:  from an aspiring though lazy and ineffective philosophy TA (never faculty) to a parasite living off his wife’s income and the pittance he recives from the US government to troll truthdig.

When you gringos fall, you really go splat. 

And the subsequent smell is pretty damn bad.

Report this

By prosefights, May 7, 2012 at 5:31 pm Link to this comment

Anita Karbasioun

http://www.prosefights.org/pnmrider/pondless.htm

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 7, 2012 at 5:29 pm Link to this comment

I instructed in logic at only one university….but it
was a real university , moonie, and rather a well-
regarded one.

and I hated instructing and did it only because it was
part of my scholarship/stipend deal….


you should be a little more honest.

Report this
americanme's avatar

By americanme, May 7, 2012 at 5:04 pm Link to this comment

Case rested.

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 7, 2012 at 3:16 pm Link to this comment

hahahahahahahaha

Report this
americanme's avatar

By americanme, May 7, 2012 at 1:37 pm Link to this comment

Actually, logic is a subject which I have taught at more than one university, dummy.

Since I have advocated neither the death of the group nor that of any member therein, you are not only a liar but you are way out of your league trying to spar with a professional here.

We are done—you are too weak an antagonist.

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 7, 2012 at 1:29 pm Link to this comment

obviously you’ve never taken a class in logic or you would be able to distinguish
that my cpmplaint was that you advocate the death of the group and not an
individual member of that group.


ignorant or dishonest due to unwillingness to adjust or both or both among so
many other deficiencies?

Report this
americanme's avatar

By americanme, May 7, 2012 at 1:23 pm Link to this comment

Obviously you never took math in junior high school.

If something or someone is part of a larger set it is not excluded from that.

Example Hetero is part of the larger set of gringos.  Therefore if I were promoting gringocide (which I am not), I would be promoting your death as part of that set of gringos.

Duh.

Dumber and dumber you get.

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 7, 2012 at 1:18 pm Link to this comment

I said gringocide, idiot, not heterocide.

stop denying that of which you’ve not been accused….

Report this
americanme's avatar

By americanme, May 7, 2012 at 1:08 pm Link to this comment

Then continue to bull your way ahead and continue looking like the dumbass racist troll that you are.

I couldn’t care less whether you live or die.

Which is not the same as promoting your execution.

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 7, 2012 at 1:06 pm Link to this comment

I don’t take orders from racist scum and promoters of gringocide,

Report this
americanme's avatar

By americanme, May 7, 2012 at 12:56 pm Link to this comment

Next time, really look at what I post, ungrateful promoter of genocide.

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 7, 2012 at 12:55 pm Link to this comment

oh, thanks for pointing up my pronoun slip….

I can’t claim Russian citizenship, although one grandparent was from there.

Report this
americanme's avatar

By americanme, May 7, 2012 at 12:43 pm Link to this comment

You wrote, and I quote:

“What was formerly the big bad old Red Army is now a rusted-out remnant and
nukes is what we’ve got left.”

YOU are the one who’s confused, no-neck.  Not only are you promoting genocide against all non-whites on the planet, but
you don’t even know anymore whether you are a gringo
or a russian.

next you won’t be able to find your butt with both hands, and will be forced to stop trolling here.

I look forward to your absence.

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 7, 2012 at 12:13 pm Link to this comment

you’re again confused… you’re the one promoting gringo genocide, moonie.

Report this
americanme's avatar

By americanme, May 7, 2012 at 12:06 pm Link to this comment

We’ve?

Since when are you a rusted out Russian, gringo genocide promoter?

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 6, 2012 at 7:24 pm Link to this comment

and the Russians don’t give a shit about that. they don’t like NATO building
military bases with American staffs ever closer to the Russian border. particularly
bases that might someday compromise the Russian nuclear threat.


What was formerly the big bad old Red Army is now a rusted-out remnant and
nukes is what we’ve got left.

Report this

By prosefights, May 6, 2012 at 7:10 pm Link to this comment

The U.S. repeatedly has said the European missile-defense system is designed to fend off an attack by Iran,

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/may/3/russia-threatens-strike-nato-missile-defense-sites/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KLVwRrCR3g

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 5, 2012 at 6:40 pm Link to this comment

these tuition hikes in Washington State are related to
Israeli reserves being called up or to Russia bombing
NATO???

yeah they must be related, prose. the Israeli
reservists will be deployed in Seattle to shoot those
objecting to the tuition increases as a demonstration
of steely resolve than will cow the Russian military
and prevent innocent European blood being shed by the
rapacious and bloody-thirsty Russki savages

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 5, 2012 at 12:09 pm Link to this comment

Russia’s more likely to bomb Iran than attack
NATO…more likely to survive an attack on Iran as
well.

Report this
americanme's avatar

By americanme, May 5, 2012 at 10:07 am Link to this comment

prosefights:

Good idea to hit NATO installations.  They still have not gotten even for the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 5, 2012 at 8:02 am Link to this comment

prose——Israeli reserves,  and European ABM installations and Russian
resentment of them are not related in any way.


and linking them under the heading of “March to War”  is a bit preposterous.

Report this

By prosefights, May 5, 2012 at 6:30 am Link to this comment

Urban Survival, Friday May 4, 2012

March to War

As Israel is starting to call up reserves, we notice that Russia is making noises about possible preemptive strikes on NATO ABM sites which is what we’d be talking if Russia was putting such installations next door in Mexico or Canada.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/may/3/russia-threatens-strike-nato-missile-defense-sites/

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 4, 2012 at 6:37 pm Link to this comment

Patsy—-your link is to NewDelhiTV which is not, IIRC, a Chinese government
official newsite…....


perhaps if you furnished a link to some official Chinese news organ stating that
military action in defense of iran is Chinese government policy, it would open
my eyes.

as it is, I find the claim by the professor to be quite unofficial and completely
“denial” and dismissible ...merely the sort of statement that would count as
soothing noise for Iran while the official policy is entirely different.


China is quite content to remain with a foot in both camps and exploit the
situation for whatever can be gained.

Report this
PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, May 4, 2012 at 6:07 pm Link to this comment

tic,

What does it tell you that it is broadcast over China state TV, not a wholly owned Jewish subsidiary.

Report this

By prosefights, May 4, 2012 at 5:27 pm Link to this comment

Statement that

‘While is he isn’t expecting an immanent attack on Iran, if one were to take place, he believes that it would initiated by Israel by late summer or early fall.’ can’t be copied and Cntr v’s

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/t-boone-pickens-biggest-deterrent-u-energy-plan-125553999.html

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 4, 2012 at 3:40 pm Link to this comment

that’s a good deal more likely than is Israel attacking Iran WITH US help.

Report this

By prosefights, May 4, 2012 at 2:20 pm Link to this comment

T Boone Pickens predicts Israel, without US help, will attack Iran.


http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/t-boone-pickens-biggest-deterrent-u-energy-plan-125553999.html

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 4, 2012 at 6:49 am Link to this comment

PH—that’s not a warning from the Chinese government….is it?

THAT is the sort of thing that’s called an opinion by some guy.

it’s like retired General Curtis LeMay telling the North Vietnamese that he’s sure
that the US is going to drop nukes on them real soon if’n they don’t stop sending
soldiers into South Viet-nam.

Report this
PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, May 4, 2012 at 3:50 am Link to this comment

Marshall,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-3xeP7NFRE

Report this
PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, May 4, 2012 at 3:17 am Link to this comment

Marshall,

Your twisting the story to the Iranians hating jews, they don’t, they haven’t any respect for the government of israel. They have a vibrant jewish community and laws protecting them from abuse.

I’m not suprised by your typical tired ass hasbara ploy to somehow link ‘actions of israel to ‘the jews’.

I think all this sabre rattling against Iran will backfire as we have no moral right to dictate to Iran what they can and cannot do sans NPT.  The larger players in the world are also tired of the US thinking they can force their will upon others or haven’t you noticed?

Iran is not Iraq and has over 3 times the area and difficult terrain.  Their history of fighting outsiders predates most other countries history including the U.S. 

They have done nothing to merit the massive taxpayer expenditures and provocative military actions from the U.S. which they are experiencing now.  If Israel has a gripe with them let Israel handle it alone or with their oil shiekdom neighbors who hate Israel more than Iran does and which do hate ‘the jews’ for being just that, Jews.

Report this

By Marshall, May 3, 2012 at 11:35 pm Link to this comment

PH - I never said the world community wants to attack Iran.  I said the world community wants Iran to come clean over its nuke program and open up to full inspections.  This is the optimal solution for all.  The US and Israel are the only ones that have put the military option on the table, primarily because a) someone needs to carry the big stick, b) they’re the only ones capable of pulling it off and c) China/Russia would veto direct UN action due to intrenched business interests.  Removing the military option would be a toothless policy that Iran would not take seriously.

The Chinese govt. has never threatened a military response, which would be rather pointless given its far larger economic ties to the U.S. than to Iran; but this is beside the point anyway.  We’re discussing Iran’s intransigence and your inability to find fault with its nuclear policy or support the obvious solution of Iran swallowing its outsized pride and ideological hatred of Jews and non-Muslims and signing the AP like an adult and getting on with life rather than risking military confrontation with superior forces.  But then I’m sure you’d agree that religious zealotry often blinds one to reason.

Report this

By prosefights, May 3, 2012 at 7:46 pm Link to this comment

Likely?

Google ‘iran cornerstone of possible ww3’

Report this
americanme's avatar

By americanme, May 3, 2012 at 5:33 pm Link to this comment

If you are so bored why are most of the posts that you invoice your employer for personal attacks against me and against what I have said.

Being wrong is not one of my more obvious habits.

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 3, 2012 at 5:27 pm Link to this comment

you were wrong… and I’m bored with your nonsense and tired of bickering with
you over nonsense.

Glad to discuss or argue over something of substance…..

Report this
americanme's avatar

By americanme, May 3, 2012 at 11:42 am Link to this comment

Keep on stroking and spewing potty-talk.

That’s what they do in the back wards of the institutions for developmentally disabled folks.

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 2, 2012 at 6:12 pm Link to this comment

stil doesn’t work.


when you list the names of each goat you’ve blown then we’ll discuss whether I’m
paid by government agencies.

till then, try talking about facts and not merely being a bigot and liar.

Report this
americanme's avatar

By americanme, May 2, 2012 at 5:57 pm Link to this comment

When you admit which government agency pays you to post hatespeech and personal attacks on this site, we’ll talk about MY claims.

Until then hit The Road, pipsqueak.

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 2, 2012 at 5:35 pm Link to this comment

doesn’t work for you. you’re still full of shit and too screwed up to admit that your
claim was neither true nor shared by any “experts”.

it really must suck to be you.


grow a spine and admit it when you err rather than compounding your failures
with idiotic lies

Report this
americanme's avatar

By americanme, May 2, 2012 at 5:27 pm Link to this comment

I indicated that YOU did not need to read my sources.  I only put two as teasers.

Since you couldn’t resist barging in where you were not invited, don’t complain about the party.

Like I said, either you will be right (highly unlikely since to date you have never been right once in all the thousands of fripperyditz potty-mouth posts you have smeared on truthdig) or I will be.

And my money is STILL on me.

The smart money.

Not the in our hebrew god we trust patriot money.

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 2, 2012 at 5:19 pm Link to this comment

and neither of those support your claim that China will surpass the US in
military might in 5 years.


——”“"t’s the US that’s treading on eggs vis a vis China, which is expected to
surpass it economically and militarily in 5 years.”“” that claim is bullshit \. as is
your claim that’s

“It’s not MY claim.

It’s the general consensus of experts…”


you talk such shit. lie a little less, little bit.

Report this
americanme's avatar

By americanme, May 2, 2012 at 4:47 pm Link to this comment

Heterochromatic no-neck need not read any of these comments:

1.  From the UK’s national science academy:  China will overtake US in science in two years, possibly even by 2013.  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12885271

2.  China will overtake the US as the world’s largest economy by 2018 as the global financial crisis propels the shift in economic power to emerging countries, says PricewaterhouseCoopers. http://www.investmentweek.co.uk/investment-week/news/1936788/china-overtake-2018-pwc

Both of those are UK sites—the US sites says 2030 or 2050 or NEVER, because they, like heterononecktroll, are patriots (patriotism being the last refuge of scoundrels, after all).

We shall see.

Either hetero and his secret info from his hebrew god will be right, and the US will go on and on and on until it sinks like the Titanic hundreds of years in the future, or this poster will be right.

My money is on me.

Report this
americanme's avatar

By americanme, May 2, 2012 at 4:28 pm Link to this comment

You are the one claiming I am wrong.

Prove it, and do remember that I do not open links, so I expect to see quotes and then the source referenced.

Or you can just wait and hope for death before The Road.

What will folks like you do when the grid goes down?  Folks that live in big US cities?

I guess dumpster diving will have a brief surge, as stuff will go bad more quickly without refrigeration.

But you are not sufficiently agile to dive the dumpsters.

I think you’ll be fried very fast—and not in my body fat, either.

Especially if the grid goes down in August.

What a stench there will be.

The horror.

The horror.

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 2, 2012 at 4:22 pm Link to this comment

the claim of bullshit as is YOUR claim that it’s the consensus of the world’s
experts…..... try backing it up, with links to those experts little liar.

Report this
americanme's avatar

By americanme, May 2, 2012 at 4:17 pm Link to this comment

It’s not MY claim.

It’s the general consensus of experts in the field of geopolitics—a group of which you are not a member and which doesn’t even bother to slip any “secret” information your way, either.

Keep up the fantasizing, patriot—if you are very very lucky you’ll die before you have to hit The Road.—from a heart attack or a stroke from all the stroking.

Only teenage boys can masturbate that frequently and survive.

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 2, 2012 at 4:15 pm Link to this comment

PH—thanks for the link…..I was certain that no such thing appeared in any official
Chinese publication or from any member of the Chinese government.

thx for the confirmation.

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 2, 2012 at 4:07 pm Link to this comment

spare us your idiotic claims, China’s military is 20 years behind at present and 5
years ain’t gonna do it.

Report this
PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, May 2, 2012 at 4:02 pm Link to this comment

tic,

I didn’t have to look far, damn your lazy.

http://www.eutimes.net/2011/12/chinese-general-threatens-us-with-world-war-3-over-iran/

Report this
americanme's avatar

By americanme, May 2, 2012 at 3:59 pm Link to this comment

It’s the US that’s treading on eggs vis a vis China, which is expected to surpass it economically and militarily in 5 years.

Silly secret sharer—your employers had better strike NOW at Iran and China and put all of you lumpen white aristocrats on The Road.

Then Russia and Brazil and India can divide up the planet and use the survivors of The Road for slaves.

It is not the habit of China’s leaders to rattle sabers and make bully on the playground threats.  That’s a gringo thing.

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By heterochromatic, May 2, 2012 at 3:54 pm Link to this comment

some people would say that $30b in investment doesn’t add up to much reason to
go to war with people with whom China does half a trillion dollars of business per
year.


silly thing.

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By americanme, May 2, 2012 at 3:46 pm Link to this comment

China has taken the opportunity of the bully-boy sanction threats to replace the western petroleum companies in Iran.  Thirty billion bucks so far of investment provides a good motive to defend same.

This information was in Sunday’s Proceso—an excerpt from a book being released this week about China’s investments in Iran.

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By heterochromatic, May 2, 2012 at 3:30 pm Link to this comment

Pats—- Russia and China have indeed voiced opposition to a military attack on
Iran, but I’ve seen nothing from them saying that they would respond militarily to
such attack.


Do you have something from one or either of them voicing that idea?

(and please don’t cite something from Iran alleging that Russia/China said that)

if you do have something solid, I would greatly appreciate seeing it. thx

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By IMax, May 2, 2012 at 3:14 pm Link to this comment

americanmeat,


Usted está enfermo de odio.

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By PatrickHenry, May 2, 2012 at 3:02 pm Link to this comment

Marshall,

This goes back to my earlier comments and links which disagree with your opinion that the world community wants to attack Iran.  China and Russia have stated that they are against military action and have even gone as far as threatening a military response if we go through with it.

It is only a minority in the US who wants another war (with Iran).  I know you and tic are that minority, get over it.

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By Marshall, May 1, 2012 at 4:15 pm Link to this comment

PH - “I’m sure if they had nukes as in the case of India, Pakistan and N Korea the
U.S. wouldn’t be as cavalier in it’s threat of force.”

You’re disingenuously omitting the most obvious and stated condition for Iran
being left alone which is that they sign AP to satisfy world community that they
have no nuke intentions.  Not rocket science here.

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By heterochromatic, May 1, 2012 at 2:54 pm Link to this comment

the Pakistanis have been drawing gobs of aid….go do the reading.

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By PatrickHenry, May 1, 2012 at 2:32 pm Link to this comment

tic,

i’ll bet the Paki’s will be waiting on it for decades like the F-16’s they paid for.

Most the equipment was overvalued US surplus which added to that misrepresentative amount you give.

There are plenty more sources.

http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/politics/us-foreign-aid.htm

I’m for cutting it all off, especially to israel.

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By americanme, May 1, 2012 at 9:56 am Link to this comment

Aaaand just more potty talk from the FoxNews wanna be.

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By heterochromatic, May 1, 2012 at 6:55 am Link to this comment

it puts aid to Pakistan at four and a half billion, Pookey,  so shit’s on you.

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By PatrickHenry, May 1, 2012 at 3:34 am Link to this comment

Marshall,

Israel is a regional power and threatens to use force daily against Iran. Pakistan and India don’t.  It is exactly that daily threat which portrays israel as a unstable and irrational nuclear armed nation.

“Again - a non-nuclear Iran has nothing to fear from the west or israel”

Iran is a non nuclear armed nation and finds itself surrounded by provocative forces who overfly the country and assassinate its’ scientists.  I’m sure if they had nukes as in the case of India, Pakistan and N Korea the U.S. wouldn’t be as cavalier in it’s threat of force.

It is sad this anti-Iranian military endeavor is being carried out against the wishes of the majority of Americans despite being the democracy we falsely claim.


tic,

Page 19 doesn’t state shit, as most your posts usually do.

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By Marshall, April 30, 2012 at 9:17 pm Link to this comment

PH - As heteroc said, Iran does indeed have the right to drop out of NPT and shed it’s pretense.  It might at least be more honest.  Does it have the right to develop nuclear weapons?  Absolutely.  Just as we have the right to prevent it from doing so.  That’s life.

You say Israel is central to this but nuclear india and pakistan also refuse to sign NPT and they’re not central?  (your aid red-herring is irrelevant to the nuke issue)

Again - a non-nuclear Iran has nothing to fear from the west or israel.

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By americanme, April 30, 2012 at 10:48 am Link to this comment

The no-neck troll’s personal attack against this poster began with this howler:

“and you claim to be a Canadian expat living in Mexico with a non-existent nephew
and a couple of oft-blown goats.”

Wrong again, neckless nattering nitwit:  expat Canadians do not travel the world on US passports.  Nor have I ever claimed to be one.

You barked and whimpered and lifted your leg against the base of the wrong tree, as usual.

I’ll say this for you:  It’s nearly statistically impossible to be wrong 100% of the time—but so far, you have managed that.  I’ll ring up the Guinness Book of Records folks—no need for you to do that.

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By heterochromatic, April 30, 2012 at 10:35 am Link to this comment

and you claim to be a Canadian expat living in Mexico with a non-existent nephew
and a couple of oft-blown goats.

what is verifiable about you is that you’re an ignorant and ill-read twit with a
predilection to claim far more credit for intelligence than is observable or likely.

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By americanme, April 30, 2012 at 10:22 am Link to this comment

I see the same hatespeech from heterochromatic on this thread as he has posted on every other thread on this site.

It’s all against non-whites.

I suspect that heterochromatic is really a self-loathing Indian from Mumbai.

Converts always are the most rabid promoters of any religion.

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By heterochromatic, April 30, 2012 at 8:26 am Link to this comment

Patsy—- you seem not to understand that it’s the US govt that gives the aid
despite the US regulations and that Israel breaks no law by taking the aid.

and my figures for aid to Pakistan didn’t come out my ass, Patsy, but from the
Congressional Research Office…......


they’ve got the Pakistanis as recipients of $4.462 billion (2010)  (p.19) 

http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/166839.pdf


do the reading, Patsy

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By heterochromatic, April 29, 2012 at 9:02 pm Link to this comment

prose—- you could be right. if people don’t think positive thoughts about the
Ayatollah, he’ll turn off the sun.

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By prosefights, April 29, 2012 at 6:15 pm Link to this comment

Toward Eenergy Literacy is a very important article we believe

http://www.energypulse.net/centers/article/article_display.cfm?a_id=2526

and is related to Why Washington’s Iran Policy Could Lead to Global Disaster

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By heterochromatic, April 29, 2012 at 3:33 pm Link to this comment

Iran does have the sovereign right to renounce the NPT
and cease pretending that they’re only interested in
nuclear research for civil use.


....and no, PH, Israel is not violating US law by
accepting US aid.
If there are US laws that ban the granting of aid to
Israel (and I would guess, also to Pakistan, which
receives more in aid from the US than does Israel) it’s
the US govt which is in violation of those laws.

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By PatrickHenry, April 29, 2012 at 3:19 pm Link to this comment

Marshall,

Iran then has the right to drop out of the NPT and develop nuclear weapons as your line of thinking seems to allow.

Israel is central to this as they have developed nukes and refuse to sign the NPT which BTW is violating US law as they are the largest recipiant of US aid there is.
It is by Israels possession of these nukes and daily threats that the Iranians are trying to obtain the knowledge and resources to make one in a short time if they are attacked.

If Israel can have them then Iran can too, all other commentary denying Iran nukes while Israel is permitted to threaten others with attack defies the fundemental rule of self defense.

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By Marshall, April 28, 2012 at 3:55 pm Link to this comment

PH - All three countries that aren’t NPT signatories are already nuclear states and
you don’t seem too worried about India or Pakistan.  The primary priority of NPT is
to prevent new countries from going nuclear, so it’s not difficult to understand
why the focus is on Iran.

You seem hung up on the word “additional” in AP - which was not created for Iran
as you think but is a 20 year old staple of NNPT and has 139 signatories.  Without
it, there’s no guarantee that countries aren’t developing nukes at undisclosed
sites.  Period.

So keep trying to change the subject to Israel and i’ll keep telling you that we’re
discussing Iran.

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By PatrickHenry, April 27, 2012 at 3:13 am Link to this comment

Marshall,

Research it yourself, the fact that the rest of the world agrees that Israel is the greatest threat to world peace is hardly new given their track record.

The fact that israel isn’t a signatory of the NPT and does not allow inspection of its nuclear facilities should give you more concern than Iran’s observance of an ‘additional protocol’ which undoubtably was written just for them.

http://www.timesleader.com/stories/Iran-might-sign-NPT-protocol-for-snap-inspections,143750

My question which you tend to ignore, when is israel going to abide by that which Iran has to submit to, or face well deserved sanctions?

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By americanme, April 26, 2012 at 10:36 am Link to this comment

Marshall:

Give it a rest.

You an arms dealer or something.

Knock off the war mongering and go back to school.

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By Marshall, April 25, 2012 at 8:44 pm Link to this comment

PH - The Additional Protocol is not some incremental add-on to NNPT but has
been a standard part of the treaty since 1993.  You’re fabricating scenarios to
excuse Iran from being transparent about it’s nuke program… even more of a
concern in light of the knowledge that it had an active program through 2003 that
it continues to lie about.

And sorry - i don’t accept private polls from non-trusted sources.  There’s no
question that regional governments and western nations are most concerned with
Iranian nukes no matter what you think.  Bottom line is whether Iran should be
allowed to have them and the answer is no.  There is no justification under non-
proliferation.

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By americanme, April 24, 2012 at 2:44 pm Link to this comment

Between the liars and the trolls and the intellectually challenged, Patrick, there’s not much to pick from on this site.

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By PatrickHenry, April 24, 2012 at 2:36 pm Link to this comment

Marshall,

The context of “justification” was that Iran is surrounded by hostile forces overtly threatening it daily. 

No backpedaling just you attempting to constuct a strawman arguement.

Additional protocol?  and then another and another, when does it end and when does Israel and the US stand down and quit the provocative banter.  The reality is they never will because they keep moving the goal posts.


You’re pretty much alone on that since other regional countries are concerned about Iran,
not Israel.

Now that’s a crock, israel is the number one greatest threat to world peace and poll after poll recognizes that fact. Especially the regional neighbors

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/231145.html

Paranoia with nukes is not a good combination.

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By Marshall, April 24, 2012 at 1:08 pm Link to this comment

By PatrickHenry, April 24 at 2:34 am Link to this comment

“I’m saying that I can understand why Iran would want nuclear weapons…”

You’re backpeddling now - you said that Iran was “justified” in obtaining a
nuclear weapon.  Yet you claim to support non-proliferation/NNPT.  These two
views are incompatible.

“The UN and our own CIA have been over Iran repeatedly and state that Iran has
no nuclear weapons”

No one’s claiming they have them, the claim is that they may be pursuing them
and IAEA can’t verify this without Iran agreeing to Additional Protocol.  Can you
explain why Iran won’t agree to this?  Can you explain why it would lie about
having had a nuke program in the past and say that it doesn’t want nukes?

“I personally am more concerned with undeclared israeli nukes than any
program that Iran has.”

You’re pretty much alone on that since other regional countries are concerned
about Iran, not Israel.  The U.S. and Israel have made clear that Iran only has
something to fear if it goes ahead with a nuclear program.  With Iraq out of the
picture, a non-nuclear Iran has no direct threats in the region.

On the other hand, other countries HAVE made clear that a nuclear Iran will
ignite nuclear weapons development programs within their own countries.

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By PatrickHenry, April 24, 2012 at 3:34 am Link to this comment

Marshall,

I’m saying that I can understand why Iran would want nuclear weapons given the external threats and why their desire to obtain them has merit.

The UN and our own CIA have been over Iran repeatedly and state that Iran has no nuclear weapons but the israeli inspired press drones on with daily threats and the US maintains its armada off the shores at a great cost. 

I personally am more concerned with undeclared israeli nukes than any program that Iran has.  Why is this major hurdle on whether or not Iran develops nuclear weapons not a subject for debate?, israel has already begun the arms race by its daily threats of attack with veiled threats of its use of it’s nuclear weapons.

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By Marshall, April 23, 2012 at 10:54 pm Link to this comment

PH - Who is attempting to deny Iran nuclear power?  All that’s being asked is that it sign the Additional Protocol of NNPT to allow free inspections, or agree to one of the alternatives like outsourcing enrichment.  Iran has steadfastly said it doesn’t want nuclear weapons so you’re saying it does?

The only threats to Iran have come as the result of its nuclear weapons programs, so you’ve got the logic backwards.  If it satisfies the world that it isn’t trying to build nukes, it’s welcome to a nuclear energy program and is free from threat of attack.

And the outcome of Iranian nukes would be that more surrounding nations build nuclear weapons, not less.  But perhaps you think a regional arms race is a good thing?

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By PatrickHenry, April 23, 2012 at 3:20 am Link to this comment

Marshall,

It’s difficult to force the Iranians to go down the path of nuclear non-proliferation by attempting to deny it nuclear power as is its right, while those threatening it almost daily (Israel and to a lesser degree America) are surrounding Iran and are armed to the teeth with nukes threatening to destroy those nuclear power plants on an almost daily basis.

Irans non proliferation should be tied to a larger regional nuclear free zone which includes israel.

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By Marshall, April 22, 2012 at 10:39 pm Link to this comment

“If you can’t see why Iran would desire a nuke to defend itself from the
neighborhood bullies then your either blind or a bully yourself.”

PH - Why are you speaking for the Iranian government and pretending to know its motivations?  This is about one simple thing: Nuclear non-proliferation.  You can’t support it from one side of your mouth and defend Iran’s right to have nukes from
the other.  You either support non-proliferation or you don’t and Iran doesn’t get a pass.

So when you’re ready to give a straight answer on that topic rather than trying to continually change the subject to Israel then be my guest. Until then I’m also exiting the discussion.

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By PatrickHenry, April 22, 2012 at 12:38 pm Link to this comment

tic,

Just more of your laughable lame ass zionist poster BS. 

Run along lil hasbarat, run along.

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By heterochromatic, April 22, 2012 at 12:33 pm Link to this comment

PH—I’m gonna have to quit arguing with you as you’re too fucked-up and unable
to apply anything near to a single standard…..

(and yes I have dick, you dickless feckless Gibson-blower)

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By PatrickHenry, April 22, 2012 at 12:22 pm Link to this comment

tic,

Like I thought, you have dick, besides your willingness to make up shit to promote more hasbaric bullshit.

Theres alot more evidence of israeli terrorism than Iranian, like that demonstrated in Lilhammer Norway for one.

http://leftwing-christian.net/2011/07/24/from-lillehammer-1973-to-oslo-2011-murders-in-norway-and-the-israel-connection.aspx

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