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Where Were You When They Crucified My Lord?

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Posted on Dec 5, 2011
Illustration by Mr. Fish

By Chris Hedges

(Page 2)

At times like these I hear the voices of the saints who went before us. The suffragist Susan B. Anthony, who announced that resistance to tyranny is obedience to God, and the suffragist Elizabeth Cady Stanton, who said, “The moment we begin to fear the opinions of others and hesitate to tell the truth that is in us, and from motives of policy are silent when we should speak, the divine floods of light and life no longer flow into our souls.” Or Henry David Thoreau, who told us we should be men and women first and subjects afterward, that we should cultivate a respect not for the law but for what is right. And Frederick Douglass, who warned us: “Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.” And the great 19th century populist Mary Elizabeth Lease, who thundered: “Wall Street owns the country. It is no longer a government of the people, by the people, and for the people, but a government of Wall Street, by Wall Street, and for Wall Street. The great common people of this country are slaves, and monopoly is the master.” And Gen. Smedley Butler, who said that after 33 years and four months in the Marine Corps he had come to understand that he had been nothing more than a gangster for capitalism, making Mexico safe for American oil interests, making Haiti and Cuba safe for banks and pacifying the Dominican Republic for sugar companies. War, he said, is a racket in which newly dominated countries are exploited by the financial elites and Wall Street while the citizens foot the bill and sacrifice their young men and women on the battlefield for corporate greed. Or Eugene V. Debs, the socialist presidential candidate, who in 1912 pulled almost a million votes, or 6 percent, and who was sent to prison by Woodrow Wilson for opposing the First World War, and who told the world: “While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free.” And Rabbi Abraham Heschel, who when he was criticized for walking with Martin Luther King on the Sabbath in Selma answered: “I pray with my feet” and who quoted Samuel Johnson, who said: “The opposite of good is not evil. The opposite of good is indifference.” And Rosa Parks, who defied the segregated bus system and said “the only tired I was, was tired of giving in.” And Philip Berrigan, who said: “If enough Christians follow the Gospel, they can bring any state to its knees.”

And the poet Langston Hughes, who wrote:

What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
Like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore—
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over—
Like a syrupy sweet?

Maybe it just sags
Like a heavy load.

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Square, Site wide
Or does it explode?

 

And Martin Luther King, who said: “On some positions, cowardice asks the question, ‘Is it safe?’ Expediency asks the question, ‘Is it politic?’ Vanity asks the question, ‘Is it popular?’ And there comes a time when a true follower of Jesus Christ must take a stand that’s neither safe nor politic nor popular but he must take a stand because it is right.”

Where were you when they crucified my Lord?

Were you there to halt the genocide of Native Americans? Were you there when Sitting Bull died on the cross? Were you there to halt the enslavement of African-Americans? Were you there to halt the mobs that terrorized black men, women and even children with lynching during Jim Crow? Were you there when they persecuted union organizers and Joe Hill died on the cross? Were you there to halt the incarceration of Japanese-Americans in World War II? Were you there to halt Bull Connor’s dogs as they were unleashed on civil rights marchers in Birmingham? Were you there when Martin Luther King died upon the cross? Were you there when Malcolm X died on the cross? Were you there to halt the hate crimes, discrimination and violence against gays, lesbians, bisexuals and those who are transgender? Were you there when
Matthew Shepard died on the cross? Were you there to halt the abuse and at times enslavement of workers in the farmlands of this country? Were you there to halt the murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent Vietnamese during the war in Vietnam or hundreds of thousands of Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan? Were you there to halt Israel’s saturation bombing of Lebanon and Gaza? Were you there when Rachel Corrie died on the cross? Were you there to halt the corporate forces that have left working men and women and the poor in this country bereft of a sustainable income, hope and dignity? Were you there to share your food with your neighbor in Liberty Square? Were you there to become homeless with them?

Where were you when they crucified my Lord?

I know where I was.

Here.

With you.


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Outraged's avatar

By Outraged, December 6, 2011 at 8:54 pm Link to this comment

IMax

You completely missed my point, which was THEY don’t
appear to be in disagreement AND it appears that they
very much agree with the occupy message. Again:

”“The Occupy movement is saying that it wants
outdoor
space where everybody can be together, and we [in
Occupy Faith] are supporting that request. We are
urging, especially, Trinity to open that space,” she
said. OWS is “arguing that one of the effects of the
unjust economy is that there’s no public spaces, that
more and more space has been privatized … They are
really making the argument that their larger claims
of economic justice are directly related to
privatized space.”
“The movement is really saying, ‘We need space to
develop our community’ – their language is ‘appear’
to each other – and I think it’s really important,”
she said.”

http://www.anglicancommunion.org/acns/digest/index.cfm/2011/12/6/TEC-Protestors-urge-Trinity-to-open-property-to-encampment

It doesn’t sound to me that you have ANY knowledge of
this church, even though you claim to. Maybe this
will help, this is a video of a statement made by the
church:
http://www.trinitywallstreet.org/webcasts/videos/worship/postcards/ows-announcement

This is a video of Occupy Christmas:
http://www.care2.com/causes/occupy-christmas-community-is-the-greatest-gift-video.html

All concerned seem to be genuinely caring, obviously
something else is creating the situation. People like
yourself for instance, always a negative comment,
always creating controversy, always skewing the
message….... I’m very familiar with your type of
worldview, it’s not a very good one.

Report this
IMax's avatar

By IMax, December 6, 2011 at 8:40 pm Link to this comment

Your Outrage, I think, is getting in the way.

I have argued nothing even remotely related to what you attribute to me. Is it intentional? I need to know. Are you doing the same to the Trinity community? I need to understand.

This needs to be addressed before I can continue with you. I refuse to argue over positions I’ve never taken.

Report this

By gerard, December 6, 2011 at 8:38 pm Link to this comment

IMax:  Gandhi’s statement about being a thief himself if others are in need and he has more than enough for himself—that statement has always been upsetting to people who can’t accept even the idea of radical charity—let alone, the actual behavior it requires.  Yet those same people forget that it was Jesus himself who originated the idea (according to myth and legend) when he said “Give all that thou hast to the poor” and something about it being
“harder for a rich man to get into Heaven than to squeeze through the eye of a needle.” 
  You said:  “You seek, by force, a revolution on over 300 million Americans.” First off, I don’t “seek a revolution by force.” I seek a nonviolent change that provides more economic justice to more people. There need not be a revolution if change can be brought about by wide public protest and citizen nonviolent action to work for necessary changes. 
  It is obvious that changes are needed, whether I “seek” them or not, and that protests will be made.  It is also obvious that protests made nonviolently will rely on the “force” of nonviolent persuasion, “Ask Americans if they wish for a nonviolent style of “revolution” and probably a large majority will give the idea a resounding
“yes.”
  What really seems to worry you is that OWS may be able to succeed using nonviolence.  Things are looking pretty good at the moment.
  This situation also seems to worry all people who “believe in” violence.  If nonviolence succeeds, it will help to end wars and the dominence of militarism over civil society. People will no longer be comfortable making and selling cluster bombs, drones, torture,fear, misinformation, spying, and oppression. “A new birth of freedom” will be possible to save the human race from destroying itself. A lot of people can’t wrap their head around that idea. Yet.

Report this
IMax's avatar

By IMax, December 6, 2011 at 8:32 pm Link to this comment

“The mainstream church, battered by declining
numbers and a failure to defiantly condemn the crimes and cruelty of the corporate state, as well as a refusal to vigorously attack the charlatans of the Christian right, whose misuse of the Gospel to champion unfettered capitalism, bigotry and imperialism is heretical”

-

Outraged,

Mr. Hedges displays an ego very few dare to place on display. Here he obstinately lumps the entire Trinity community with all of “mainstream churches” for, obsessively, not living up to HIS personal view of the world.

All the while Hedges knows what his group is attempting to accomplish. He’s published this piece in hopes of forcibly “Occupying” a church. A church which is extremely useful to his group geographically. It’s nearly the perfect location.

Hedges and others fully comprehend what it will mean to Occupy a symbol “Sanctuary”. It will mean immediate global attention. And any eviction or interdiction by the church over property they own? That would be a trifecta! The images of a CHRISTIAN church having to remove the poor huddled masses. Imagine the usefulness to Occupy. And you’re upset that the Trinity community doesn’t fall all over itself to be a part of YOUR view of what they ought to be?

Oh yeah! You’re being manipulated.

I’m asking you honestly. Isn’t it time you admit, right here on this space, that you know nothing of Trinity Church or its community? Is not true that the extent of what you know of Trinity is what Christopher Hedges has chosen to share with you? I’m asking only for honesty on your part.

Report this

By heterochromatic, December 6, 2011 at 8:11 pm Link to this comment

~~~~‘The Occupy movement is the force that will revitalize traditional Christianity
in the United States or signal its moral, social and political irrelevance.”~~~


it’s stuff such as this that shows that Hedges is lost in the echoes inside his skull.

Report this
Outraged's avatar

By Outraged, December 6, 2011 at 7:53 pm Link to this comment

Re: IMax

Yes, you misunderstand. The fact is there doesn’t
appear to be any REASON to deny the occupy space.
Factually, it doesn’t appear that Trinity is against
the idea….. so what’s going on? Where’s the
problem?

“Within Occupy Faith, there were differences of
opinion about the hunger strike, said the Rev. Donna
Schaper, senior minister at Judson.
During the live-streamed rally, she quoted the Rev.
Martin Luther King Jr.’s letter from the Birmingham
Jail: “Too many clergy hide behind the anesthetizing
security of stained-glass windows.”
“Boy, does that ring true today, because there are
religious institutions all over this city who could
open the spaces they hold sacred and dear, and some
of them even hold empty spaces,” said Schaper. She
spoke of a hope “that every one of our religious
institutions, including mine, including yours, open
up.
“There is no security hiding behind stained-glass
windows or phony security,” she said. “Our only
security is in the world beyond surveillance, beyond
injustice, after democracy returns to our political
economy. Let’s open up.”
Schaper’s church housed protestors for five nights
after the Nov. 15 evictions but then stopped,
although its board will re-evaluate that decision
Tuesday night, she said in a Dec. 5 interview with
ENS. The church lacks a kitchen, and “the policing
and the cleaning were overwhelming,” she said. “At
the moment, we are open all day long, and we have
occupiers on every plug.” Their 500-seat meeting room
also is “used constantly.”
“We have taken the position that we’re better off
being a day shelter,” she said.
“I think a lot of churches are discussing” whether
and how to open their spaces to the movement, she
said.
As she outlined in a Religion Dispatches column,
Schaper has changed her view on the need for OWS to
“occupy” outdoor space.
“The Occupy movement is saying that it wants outdoor
space where everybody can be together, and we [in
Occupy Faith] are supporting that request. We are
urging, especially, Trinity to open that space,” she
said. OWS is “arguing that one of the effects of the
unjust economy is that there’s no public spaces, that
more and more space has been privatized … They are
really making the argument that their larger claims
of economic justice are directly related to
privatized space.”
“The movement is really saying, ‘We need space to
develop our community’ – their language is ‘appear’
to each other – and I think it’s really important,”
she said.”

http://www.anglicancommunion.org/acns/digest/index.cfm/2011/12/6/TEC-Protestors-urge-Trinity-to-open-property-to-encampment

It seems to me YOU are outraged about the situation (and creating controversy),
but THEY are not. Unlike you they seems like they actually like the OWS message and movement.

Report this
IMax's avatar

By IMax, December 6, 2011 at 7:42 pm Link to this comment

Outraged,

I have argued nothing even remotely related to what you attribute to me. Is it intentional? Are you doing the same to the Trinity community?

I have several solid reasons to believe you have been very effectively manipulated. I’ve seen your posts. You swallow Hedges like a well oiled pill.

Get this straight in your mind. Trinity Church and it’s community has accepted and aided OWS more than any single source in the area. Their doors and services have been offered to all. They remain open to all. Trinity continues to keep itself open, available, and supportive of protesters. Trinity has played an integral part in facilitating OWS meetings and community outreach on behalf of OWS.

Try this on. You and Hedges dare to DEMAND the community do more of what YOU want? Trinity is not living up to your idea of what the community should be? You’re aggrieved because Trinity fails to make your cause the exception by allowing itself to be cajoled into giving up space for YOUR personal needs?

Tell me I’ve misunderstood your position.

Report this
Outraged's avatar

By Outraged, December 6, 2011 at 7:17 pm Link to this comment

Re: IMax

NO. I am not being manipulated. That’s stupid. Hedges
is manipulating me because he wrote an op-ed?
Seriously!

Report this
Outraged's avatar

By Outraged, December 6, 2011 at 7:15 pm Link to this comment

Re: IMax

Mr. Hedges is correct when he says:

“The mainstream church, battered by declining
numbers and a failure to defiantly condemn the crimes
and cruelty of the corporate state, as well as a
refusal to vigorously attack the charlatans of the
Christian right, whose misuse of the Gospel to
champion unfettered capitalism, bigotry and
imperialism is heretical”

You seem to me to be arguing the matter from the
position of Walmart or something. To put it in those terms would be like if a manager of Walmart had let occupiers camp there for a length of time but it started to interfere with business and so the manager decided to put a stop to it.

This church called the police and had the protesters arrested. Accounts are that the protesters remained peaceful but yet again, they were hurt by the police. They were on church-owned property but NOT on the church grounds specifically. So even in the business model it couldn’t have been interfering with church activities.

Report this
IMax's avatar

By IMax, December 6, 2011 at 7:02 pm Link to this comment

Outraged, - “I disagree with your contention that the church has no responsibility in helping the OWS protesters. Of course it does.

-

You’re disagreeing with the wrong person.  I contend nothing of the kind.

If you take the time to know Trinity Church as a community you’ll learn that OWS has no more of a solid friend in the area. Hedges and others are manipulating you.

Report this

By heterochromatic, December 6, 2011 at 6:56 pm Link to this comment

~~~~“To demand that the church follow its stated goals is not somehow
unfair.”~~~


demanding that a church to follow it’s goals as defined by hedges in the manner
that hedges demands IS overbearing and arrogant.

Report this
Outraged's avatar

By Outraged, December 6, 2011 at 6:37 pm Link to this comment

Re: IMax

I disagree with your contention that the church has
no responsibility in helping the OWS protesters. Of
course it does.

It does this by upholding the message it purports to
be sending. That it harbors the poor and
disenfranchised. It also claims to be a sanctuary for
the same.

A church/religion should not be run like a business.
That is not its stated mission. It can’t be a fair-
weather friend, one can get that anywhere. It should
be SHOWING in word and in deed that it is true to Jesus’ words (if it is
a christian religion).

You seem to be saying that they did their part and now they’re done. But that does not mesh with the words of Jesus. Churches are not businesses, and if they’ve become that, obviously they have lost their way.

To demand that the church follow its stated goals is not somehow unfair.

Report this
IMax's avatar

By IMax, December 6, 2011 at 5:26 pm Link to this comment

gerard,

I’m not swayed by your use of Gandhi in support of a far different agenda.

You’re pushing an American revolution. A revolution which pits Americans against Americans. You have shown little to no regard to those who are prevented from their own rights to Occupy a space. Their own rights of livelihood, of property, open commerce, and safe public access to public places. In short, you are intoxicated by the excitement which has been created. The antithesis of Gandhi.

Now, ask Americans if they believe the deck is stacked in favor of the wealthy and a clear majority will answer in the affirmative. Ask Americans if they wish for your style of “revolution” and 99% will give you a resounding NO!

You seek, by force, a revolution on over 300 million Americans. You then wonder aloud why the majority would push back. After reading your opinions I’m not even sure you fully grasp just how very small your “revolution” is*. If not for the violence and intentional confrontations (which is the model employed here by Occupy) very few would give a second glance today.

You and I? We disagree.

-

* The largest Occupy protest to date turned out roughly 70,000 Americans across the country. - Sept, 17.

Contrast that with the 500,000 who turned out in support of the Tea Party. - April 15, 2009

- The Tea Party is a well-known minority “fringe” group now controlling much of the agenda on both sides of the isle in the United States Capital. This minority group of new activists effected the entire 2010 election cycle in every state in the nation. Powerful stuff for a small group of fellow Americans.

Occupy your School Board. Occupy the Congress!

Report this

By heterochromatic, December 6, 2011 at 5:22 pm Link to this comment

~~~~~~Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe this can only be accomplished by
forcing Obama to change the election laws and processes…~~~~

you’re wrong. Obama isn’t empowering to change the elections laws via E.O.

Report this
David J. Cyr's avatar

By David J. Cyr, December 6, 2011 at 5:17 pm Link to this comment

QUOTE, JohnSwims:

“Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe this can only be accomplished by forcing Obama to change the election laws and processes, and the Electoral Congress so that 3rd party candidates can be put on the ballots, campaign for all elections and win by popular vote.”
__________________

Republicans and Democrats are joined together in one corporate party. It is 2nd — not 3rd — party candidates that sensible voters should work to put on ballot.

To seat people’s candidates, it’s not necessary for Obama to change any election laws and processes, which he wouldn’t; nor to have any Constitutional amendment first, which won’t come from the corporate party’s corporate owned Republicans and Democrats.

All that is required for people’s candidates to be elected (or Martial Law to be enacted) is for a majority (perhaps only a smaller plurality) of the participating electorate to stop petitioning, volunteering, funding and voting for the corporate (R) & (D) party’s Money manufactured candidates, and start seriously supporting only truly independent and 2nd party people’s candidates.

Jill Stein for President:

http://www.jillstein.org

Voter Consent Wastes Dissent:

http://chenangogreens.org/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=498&Itemid=1

Report this

By JohnSwims, December 6, 2011 at 4:40 pm Link to this comment

I agreed with most of the articles and comments.
In short, our whole government, “local to federal” is corrupted by money, billionaires, millionaires, corporations and by Congress.  Our government is for and by the billionaires, corporations, etc.

Solution: Vote out all republicans and democrats and replace with honest 3rd party politicians that will represent the 99% of Americans.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe this can only be accomplished by forcing Obama to change the election laws and processes, and the Electoral Congress so that 3rd party candidates can be put on the ballots, campaign for all elections and win by popular vote.  Eliminate the strangle hold on elections that the republicans and democrats have as puppets for the Dictators.

1.  Presidential executive orders by Obama

2.  Take the money out of elections.

3.  Free, equal time and exposure for all candidates.  Of course there would be qualifications to be met, but nothing like millions of dollars to campaign, etc.

4.  Eliminate or make the processes of the Electoral Congress democratic and not controlled by democrats, republicans, billionaire, corporations, the corrupted mass news media, etc.

46% of Congress are millionaires.  Most of Congress represents the Dictators and the billionaire, their families and corporations and their puppets such as the mass news media.

99% of Americans are not represented in Congress.
Democracy does not exist in America.

Period.

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, December 6, 2011 at 3:48 pm Link to this comment

sallysense,

You did it! You acted on the objective in Chris Hedges writing this piece. And why Rev. Shockley wrote and published “Jesus and the 99 Percent”. I’ve been quietly waiting for someone to notice this manipulation on display.

What is the subtext of this Hedges piece? Trinity Church. The latest villain.

You see, it’s not been common knowledge that Hedges and others have been negotiating for weeks with Trinity for the use of its empty lot. Just at the time Trinity publicly stated that the risks (legal and financial liabilities) for them were just too great to accept (not to mention Trinity tries never to take sides), Hedges and occupywallst.org began a public pressure campaign for the use of the lot.

Few people know or understand that Trinity has, with open arms, allowed OWS full use of it’s faculties. Over the last two months Trinity has opened its Sanctuary for those with a need to get out of the rain and out of the cold. For two months Trinity has allowed open access to it’s restrooms, its computers for internet and E-Mail, and it’s Community Center for meetings, camaraderie and social services too ALL Occupy supporters.

Occupywallstreet.org, of which Hedges is one of the founders, has not been able to secure all they want from Trinity. This small group of people are now attempting to publicly cajole, some would say extort, Trinity Church into giving them what they demand.

Trinity Church has been nothing but supportive of the Occupy demonstrations and individual demonstrators. Apparently Mr. Hedges and others believe Trinity Church hasn’t done enough.

I am completely embarrassed and ashamed of myself for being taken in by people who claim to represent 99% of Americans.

-

Excerpted from an open letter from Rev. Dr. James Cooper. Dr. Cooper, who I happen to know something about, is a reasonable man. A very good man.

Churches are perhaps the only institutions that practice genuine inclusiveness in this day and age. In Trinity’s case, every week, more than 60,000 people enter parish spaces, including congregation members, people in need, local community groups, tourists, concertgoers, neighbors, visiting choirs, preschool children, and, over the past two months, protesters. And so while Trinity supports the Occupy movement’s right to protest peacefully and lawfully, and provides responsible assistance, the parish simply cannot be turned over to a single cause. Trinity welcomes protesters to participate in parish life, but not to occupy parish life in such a way that excludes anyone from taking full part in the vital and dynamic place of faith that is Trinity Wall Street.

And this from Rev. Simons. - Trinity Church, Occupying Wall Street

-

I’m sorry to say Chris Hedges is no hero. NO cause excuses his methods. - IMax

Report this

By gerard, December 6, 2011 at 3:07 pm Link to this comment

IMax:  For the moment, at least, I’ll go with Gandhi, who said, “So long as I have more than I need and others have less than they need, I am a thief.”

Report this

By Simonsez, December 6, 2011 at 1:59 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Religious believers or unbelievers, don’t we all have to support AND GROW the OCCUPY MOVEMENT?.................in the halls of Congress, at every home foreclosure possible, in DC Parks and every state capitol and specially, at military bases or in front of, at the back and squeezing the sides of the HQ of the despicable, illegal, rapacious private cabal known as the FEDERAL RESERVE…..UNELECTED PRIVATE UBERCAPITALISTIC, TOTALLY CORROSIVE ELITE ECONOMIC TERRORISTS who are ATTEMPTING the role of exterminators of the 99%‘S RIGHT TO LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HUMANE SUVIVAL?!

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sallysense's avatar

By sallysense, December 6, 2011 at 1:27 pm Link to this comment

(Here’s a letter that was sent to the Trinity Church.)

Dear Trinity Church Pastors and Members,

This human who takes Christ’s path and message to heart, is writing to you on behalf of a real living and working movement, that’s dedicated to a future of fair and just improvements for the actual living and working conditions of most people.

Your church’s motto: “for a world of good”, as applied to Christ’s message; surely recognizes some similar tendencies, shared on a distinctly far more general secular basis, by the Occupy Wall Street movement.

What does Christ’s message say of the poor and their blessedness, or of the hypocrites and their iniquities, or of faith and its works? 

And what can the conscience of any church following Christ’s path do through its own actions?

Your church, as a professed house of Christ’s message, has your own soul-searching and contemplative conscientiousness to consider; in concerning a vacant lot, and space for a sanctuary dedicated to better fair and just conditions for 99% of the people.

If The Bible’s New Testament was written today, which verses in the Gospels would one most likely find your Trinity Church mentioned among; those of Christ’s approval, or those of Christ’s rebuke?

And where would the secular Occupy movement, that’s striving for more fair and just conditions for 99% of the people, most likely be found?

How alive is Christ’s path and message inside you and your church these days? 

What does it bring from within you and your church to convey these days?

Where is Christ’s path and message keeping itself these days?

What will we see it do?

What will we hear it say?

Sincerely,

Sally Kline

Report this

By balkas, December 6, 2011 at 1:04 pm Link to this comment

liberation theology is or cld be called and [take a deep breath now] a science, a
knowledge, a method of inquiry/educating, a study of biblical utterances, or
whatever else.
manifestly, it is not study of god or else i am not a human and thus not of or with
hedges’ god and thus in toto deprived of even one human attribute: kind of cross
between a dog and a cat—and both the cat and the dog totally godless forever
and no just for one day.

i haven’t heard an entity called god saying: come and study me. and i do not invite
a living soul to study me, either, but if hedges or his ‘theology’ [science] wants to
study me then it shld allow me to study him and his ‘theology’.

let’s get serious for just a split second [for it takes that long to see] that all hedges
or the new godologists study is what ancient scribes put down on paper.

and it wasn’t their fault that they did not know that earth was round; that israel
was not the center of universe. that hebrews were not the only humans on that
square planet or that all others were not subhuman.

now that we are armed with this knowledge, let us indeed study hebrews; such as
peter, mark, john, yehudi, obadiah, hosea, joshua, moshe, et al.

recall please that the only reason paul, peter taught ‘theology’ to, mostly,
nonchristians or nonshemites, is because sanhedrin and/or most shemites of the
judea—and in order or hoping to destroy jesus’ cult—have, seems, slain yehudi
[with help from rome] in order to preserve hebraic religion or cult.
and as is always the case, a cult cannot stand another and the stronger cult
prevails via terror also. tnx

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The_Donnachaidh's avatar

By The_Donnachaidh, December 6, 2011 at 12:44 pm Link to this comment

Dear Colin - I wouldn’t normally respond, as I believe stirring stupidity with a stick
to be a bad idea - but if Ghandi - who was not a Christian - was a follower of
liberation theology - a school of Christian theology - then I am a Martian Platonist. 
The ‘Dear Chris’ was ironic in intent, as you would have realised if you’d even read
the next line.

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, December 6, 2011 at 12:40 pm Link to this comment

gerard - “I thought the big demons were Wall Street manipulators and bankster bankers….”

-

Will you agree that we have both seen dozens of explanations of what the ‘99’ slogan means?

“We Are The 99” is intended to be a populist slogan derived in an effort to appeal to the largest number of people. Many, including yourself, took this to mean your grievance is with the wealthiest (evil) 1% of the American population. - Oprah, Hanks, Woods, Jordan, Spielberg, Piven, Koch, Moore, Walton and Soros types. - Roughly three million evil Americans.

Gerard, you represent the mob that terrorized mid-level AIG executives that had absolutely nothing to do with AIG’s failings. I passionately believe you harm innocent people to make your views heard.

I know you believe you’re trying to do some good. I’ll leave it by saying I disagree with your methods.

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By gerard, December 6, 2011 at 11:39 am Link to this comment

IMax:  “We Are The 99” is good -red meat- sloganeering but leads to poor understanding. - I fail to see how demonizing Oprah, pro basketball players, Tom Hanks and Frances Piven is of help to anyone.”
  May I suggest that 99% of the 99% have an instantly “rich” understanding of what it means—which is quite an accomplishment for any “red-meat sloganeers” anywhere anyatime.
  As to the “demonizing” bit—frankly, I thought the big demons were Wall Street manipulators and bankster bankers hiding behind the shadows of government which is hiding behind the shadows of secrecy, graft and corporate personhood.
  Everybody in the world loves Tom Hanks—except me.  Or so I thought up till now. And Oprah?  Why, she’s the queen of sheen!

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By colin2626262, December 6, 2011 at 11:35 am Link to this comment

The_Donnachaidh,

Since Chris Hedges is not going to respond to your comment even though you addressed it “Dear Chris,” I’ll respond to you.  What you wrote is true in regards to Hedges’s religious beliefs in one respect: he believes in liberation theology.  He’s probably more extreme than some in that he doesn’t believe you can be a person of faith unless you engage in what he calls “rebellion.”  What does this rebellion mean?  Apparently it means camping out in a public park while being opposed to “corporate greed.”  I just read an interview by Gene Sharp, the non-violence theorist, and here’s what he said about Occupy Wall Street:

“The [Occupy] protesters don’t have a clear objective, something they can actually achieve.  If they think they will change the economic system by simply staying in a particular location, then they are likely to be very disappointed….I think they need to study how they can actually change the things they don’t like, because simply sitting or staying in a certain place will not change or improve the economic or political system.”

Clearly the goal of liberation theology is to effect change, to help bring about social justice in the place of injustice.  This is possible; it’s happened before. Gandhi and his campaign against the British Empire was probably the greatest success in liberation theology, though Gandhi was a Hindu, not a Christian.  Hedges is writing about the Christian churches, and he’s right about them.  They’re not involved in social life hardly at all anymore, if they ever were.  That’s why it doesn’t make sense to link the sucess of “liberal theology” to whether you believe Jesus was the Son of God or not.  The point that Hedges is making is that we have to act like Christians, that is, care for the poor, be compassionate, and promote peace instead of violence.  You don’t actually have to go to church to do that.  You do have to believe in God, however.

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By heterochromatic, December 6, 2011 at 11:25 am Link to this comment

No press blackout. If the bill passes with that provision still i it and is sent to
Obama for approval you’ll hear plenty.

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By IMax, December 6, 2011 at 11:25 am Link to this comment

Anarcissie,

Put simplistically; your solution is a system which offers ‘free’ cookies.

I was hoping for a few suggestions and solutions which deals with human-beings as, well, remaining human.

Thanks for sharing. Occupy the U.S. Congress!

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By SharonMI, December 6, 2011 at 11:10 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Now Chris is trying to own the Lord (“my Lord”)? Guess that’s why he had to change the title of this piece.

I’m a lapsed Catholic and have for a long time wished there were real Christians (you know them by their actions) that loudly countered the BS born-again fundamental hypocrites who are “pro-life” even as they bang the drum for war on brown folks overseas and black folks here in the U.S. If Christ hadn’t moved the rock and his body gone to heaven, it’d be drilling itself to China.

My favorite priest has run a soup kitchen in Detroit for the last 30 years. Now that’s what I’m talkin’ ‘bout.

Thank God I heard about Chris Hedges (when he got arrested last Xmas at the White House standing up for what he believes in).

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John Best asks,

By John Best asks, "What IS Progress"?, December 6, 2011 at 11:04 am Link to this comment

Two things,
First, as a compliment to Chris’ article: http://www.bonhoeffer.com/

Second, this may not be the place, but, and is it just me, or is there a press blackout on the provision of the new defence spending bill which allows the US military to ‘arrest’ (render?) on US soil, a US citizen thought to be a terrorist?  Where is the stink about this?

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By gerard, December 6, 2011 at 10:53 am Link to this comment

Anarchissie:  Thanks for your previous comment which aontained this statement among others: “The main problem is that we replicate the established order in our daily lives.  That’s what has to change.  Actions like OWS help break the ice, but they are not in themselves the solution.”
  One of the main things OWS has done is NOT to replicate, but to try to “give birth to” or “figure forth” another way, which has called “horizontalism”
as a vague way of indicating the goal toward which their method of “doing business” in “general assemblies.” Note that, for this, they have been frequently criticized and belittled.  Why?  Probably because it touches the heart of our problems with authoritarianisms in general—political, religious, social et al. Something significant may develop from this method alone, vague as it is.  At least it is aimed in the direction of democratic change.
  They also lived what most of them apparently believe concerning social justice and democracy—they “took in” those who are “left out”, sharing food, clothing and shelter—such as it was. They suffered criticism for that, and though nothing has changed yet in that regard, they shamed the majority without preachng a word.  Action speaks louder than.
  What results overall will take time and care and consistent work - from as many of the 99% as can get deeply involved.  Mistakes will be made, without a doubt, and will be promoted and capitalized on. But at the heart of the movement are the values that promote the life of the human race on this planet at this time, not replicate the established order. That is exactly why the established order is so quick to call out the cops and miss the opportunities—just as they are trying to “get” Assange and Manning and “send in the troops” here and there to “create jobs.”
  OWS gives human life a chance to take a deep breath after years of having been locked in the prison of systems failure.

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By gerard, December 6, 2011 at 10:30 am Link to this comment

The Donnachaidh:  Your comment is more interesting to me than most because it raises the universal question—probably every rational and sensitive person in the world struggles with it, more or less, for an entire lifetime.
  Having tried so hard for so long to “rationalize” beliefs, intuitions, wishes and hopes, and still (thankfully!) “in my right mind” at age 97, I find myself able to allow “opposites” to exist without killing each other off. (Living for some years in Japan helped, I must say right at the beginning, for I owe the reconciliation largely to that—and to some superficial study of Sartre, Camus et al.
  May I suggest that language is a large part of the problem because of necessary limitations of words and the idea of “meaning,” of “opposite” and of “truth.” I have to put all that aside when I am faced with works of art, for example, or with appreciating “non-violent resistance” in action.
  Not to run on forever, I think Chris is usually trying to deal with subjects that are “beyond language”, and finds language a pretty inadequate tool—as it is. It’s what lurks in the lights and shadows that play around the edges of language that might sometimes be called “truth” and “hope” and “love”—the concepts that work to push us beyond our crass limitations.  IMO.

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By socialisme, December 6, 2011 at 10:07 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Excellent column, but I would have left off the line about Matthew Shepard. His murder was drug-related and had nothing to do with his sexual orientation. He was a bisexual killed by other bisexuals over drugs and not sex. Of course the mainstream media tried to make a sensational spectacle over his sexuality, but if you look at the facts you will see the truth.

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By The_Donnachaidh, December 6, 2011 at 9:43 am Link to this comment

Dear Chris - (I don’t know why I’m entitling this ‘Dear Chris’ because I doubt in
a busy life you have time to read these ravings - so really I’m talking to myself
but hey, WTH, prove me different) - I have found your books both interesting
and inspirational - your analysis of this phase of capitalism seems to me
downright incandescent with truth, no question but that power has shifted
radically from governments to companies and that we face a thoroughly
scarifying future.  However, my problems with your thinking are neatly
illustrated by this piece.  Firstly, I don’t find liberal theology, of the kind you
recieved from your father and replay here, itself believable. (Neither did C.S.
Lewis, Anglican Christianity’s main apologist in the last generation. See his
essay, ‘Fern Seed and Elephants’). In the end it comes down to a question of
historicity or actual existence.  Or rather a series of questions.  Did Christ really
exist?  Furthermore, was he whom he said he was, i.e. the son of god? 
(Whatever that actually means.)  Was he physically, historically, resurrected?  My
deeply sad conclusion, after years of struggle, is that faith’s central miracle is
as unbelievable now as is any other miracle in this terrible scientific age.  In
other words, no, Christ is not God’s Son:  and furthermore, no, God does not
exist.  This is not a conclusion I came to easily:  frankly, it is killing me, and my
loss of faith has plunged me into a well of grief deeper than the Atlantic.  My
second problem is that I fear you are trying to have your cake and eat it.  If I
can put it like this:  your faith is politically absolutised, yet theologically
relativised.  In other words the political conclusions to which your liberal faith
brings you are absolutes, from which you will not budge:  the faith itself
however you consider on a par with Islam, Buddhism, Roman Catholicism etc
etc etc.  This is not intellectually sustainable.  Either you have the truth or you
don’t Chris:  make up your mind.

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By JDmysticDJ, December 6, 2011 at 9:29 am Link to this comment

I am a qualified admirer of Chris Hedges. This article along with his article “Fundamentalism Kills” are my favorite works by Chris Hedges. Chris by my appraisal is a man of principle, high ideals, and commitment to creating a better world, but I believe his dedication to making a better world sometimes causes him to resort to demagoguery.

Chris is courageous in this article by my appraisal. Chris must know that quoting “The Sermon on the Mount” and references to religious/spiritual concepts will raise the ire of many from the radical Left. Chris’s references to religious/spiritual concepts will elicit charges of complicity with: the Crusades, Loyola’s torturing, corrupt Popes, Colonialism, Militarist Evangelicals, fundamentalist warriors of all stripes, Dominionists, child molesters, etc. etc. ad nausea.

It’s interesting to note how avowed atheists who are admirers of Chris have qualified his words here.

Yes I am a qualified admirer of Chris Hedges, but I have to comment that Chris sometimes reminds me of a Roman Soldier with a vinegar soaked sponge on the end of a spear.

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By Anarcissie, December 6, 2011 at 9:22 am Link to this comment

iMax—It depends what people want to do.  I am interested in radical solutions which require a fundamental, and therefore probably slow, change in culture.  So I go out and give food away in the parks with Food Not Bombs.  For a more complete explanation, which may help connect the dots, try http://1freeworld.org/anaprax1.htm.

However, most people are not up for radicalism, even if they come sniffing around it now and then.  Many of the people who showed up at OWS merely wanted not to change power or economic relations but just get a better deal from the ruling class.  We could call them Welfare statists, social democrats, or even just ‘liberals’.  They may form a majority of adults in the U.S. and it’s quite true their interests and desires are generally ignored by their rulers.  It’s my belief that when Obama and his friends put Social Security on the block, their long connection with the Democratic Party finally snapped.  They realized that their Great Leaders and Mighty Heroes were not protecting them, indeed, did not care about them at all.  (That should have been evident the day the appointments of Rahm Emmanuel and Larry Summers were announced, if not before.)

So what are these people going to do?  I doubt if it’s going to be possible for them to reform the Democratic Party from within, so I think they should be looking at the Green or other parties which at least pretend to represent their concerns.  I don’t know why this strategy is considered so outré by so many people.

There are also people who would like to use the state to effect a transition to socialism.  I haven’t given this alternative a lot of thought because it requires the same sort of shift in culture that more radical solutions require.

The main problem is that we replicate the established order in our daily lives.  That’s what has to change.  Actions like OWS help break the ice, but they are not in themselves the solution.

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By Oceanna, December 6, 2011 at 9:19 am Link to this comment

“Why go after the dummy when the ventriloquist is in view?”

Strikes me a koan of sorts.  So who’s the most visible?

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By heterochromatic, December 6, 2011 at 9:12 am Link to this comment

Ana~~~~ Congress has a lot of power, in fact, not just theory. Congressional
power shifted in 2006 and 08 and Obama was able to get the first health care
reforms passed, despite the fierce opposition of corporate interests. They spent
zillions to defeat it and they could do no more than water it into weakness.

In went into law and it’ll serve as a basis for further reform.


After that, 2010 served to shift control of the House away from Dems and the
House now stands as a block against any further advances.

There’s some power there.

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By IMax, December 6, 2011 at 8:44 am Link to this comment

Anarcissie, - “Why go after the dummy when the ventriloquist is in view?”

-

Thank you for offering your personal theories on so many topics covered on this site. What will it take to get you to commit to a direction or a few possible solutions?

If I am wrong, if you’ve offered something in the way of possible solutions, I may have missed them. Can you link to them so we may all benefit?

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By elisalouisa, December 6, 2011 at 8:36 am Link to this comment

By miroslav, December 5 at 9:19 pm

“when will chris hedges be crucified to become?our one and only martyr?”

Unfortunately, the process is ongoing. Give it time.

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By Anarcissie, December 6, 2011 at 7:57 am Link to this comment

IMax, December 5 at 8:50 pm:

Anarcissie, - “Why go after the dummy when the ventriloquist is in view?”

Very clever. Clearly you’re feeling manipulated and powerless. ...’

You’re projecting.

But for those who have been reading earnestly along:  Yes, Congress has lots of power—in theory.  In fact, we’ve observed significant changes in Congressional personnel recently—especially in 2006 and 2010—with little change in product.  That implies that the source of the problem is upstream, like, maybe, the 1% or .01% who control Congress, the major corporations, the banks, the media, and the education industry.  Or maybe it’s capitalism and its class system as a whole.  Or that’s what someone might think if they did a little reasoning about it.

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By Oceanna, December 6, 2011 at 7:56 am Link to this comment

I tend to think of OWS as independent and representing numerically who they say
they do.  There’s a certain elegance and consistency to the simplicity of their own
definition.

Christians, like Democrats,  are not the 99%.

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By padraigin6, December 6, 2011 at 7:12 am Link to this comment

Non-religious people often accuse religious people of being intolerant.  As evidenced in some of the comments on this article, physician, heal thyself.  Some non-religious people are extremely intolerant.

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By Alan MacDonald, December 6, 2011 at 7:08 am Link to this comment

Hedges is eminently correct and emotive as always in addressing the awful, existential, and even ‘devilish’, nature of the ‘problem symptoms’ that we all face in these times, which may well be the ‘end times’, if we do not act appropriately, BUT he has not shown ‘the way’ to address the ‘devil in the details’ of our dilemma.

The Jesus Christ that Hedges speaks of was sent to earth to expose, confront, and ‘teach’ people how to excise Empire through love and non-violence.

Several of the people who Hedges rightly honors for their fidelity to the Beatitudes—- particularly these; Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for justice, for they shall be satisfied, and Blessed are they who suffer persecution for justice sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven—- have truthfully followed the teachings of Christ in exposing, confronting, and trying to non-violently excise the Empire that they understood or at least ‘sensed’.

My only disappointment with Chris’s fine and moving article, particularly from an author who wrote the very revealing book, “Empire of Illusion”, is that Chris did not connect the seminal message of Christ, to confront Empire with love, as the underlying reality of our times.

Best luck and love to Occupy Empire.

Liberty, democracy, justice, and equality
over
violent/Vichy
empire,

Alan MacDonald

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By IMax, December 6, 2011 at 6:44 am Link to this comment

MissMuch,

I believe we are right to focus on the wealthiest .01%. “We Are The 99” is good -red meat- sloganeering but leads to poor understanding. - I fail to see how demonizing Oprah, pro basketball players, Tom Hanks and Frances Piven is of help to anyone.

And you are right in looking toward inclusion, not exclusion. The former is a sign or great strength and artful imagination while the latter a sign of weakness and being easily lead by the nose. I applaud you for thinking out of the box and, more importantly, apart from the mob mentality.

Occupy a park and fight for your tent? Or Occupy the Congress and fight to write the nations laws?

Occupy the Congress!

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By RayLan, December 6, 2011 at 6:36 am Link to this comment

Chris understands religion to be one of the types of liberal institutions that ought to act as safety valves and checks against oppressive forms of government.
He is trying to marshall the churches to perform this vital function.
Unfortunately relgion , especially Christianity, has been hi-jacked by the corporate elite to serve the exact opposite of the Gospel.  The socialism phobia undermines the clear option Jesus had for the poor and income distribution. Usury was a sin at the time - usury which is charging interest for loaning capital - the engine of capitalism - was a sin.
Boy what a 180!

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By katsteevns, December 6, 2011 at 6:24 am Link to this comment

By Michael Shaw
“I saw a big story recently about how the Catholic Church is changing a whole lot of its mass so people have to pay more attention to what is being said.”

I guess you have never attended a Catholic mass. There was never much in it to pay attention to, except maybe that; any individual actions taken beyond the parameters set by the church are prohibited . Individual Catholic groups take action against oppressive governments in places like Latin America, but never with the blessings of the Pope. That church has always been a lapdog to the government who best guarantees the churches continuity. I am guessing that this is how their doctrine of “just wars” came into being, having no basis in Christ’s teachings…...It’s upper stratums are right-wing and the sheep are basically kept in the dark and paying tithes. Christ and good works are secondary considerations.

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By Christian, December 6, 2011 at 5:24 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Mr. Hedges,

I’m afraid there are some Biblical inaccuracies in your article.  The Jews were outraged that they were under the rule of the Romans and hoped for a Messiah that would come as a conquering king to free them.  The Messiah, however, never once told the Jews to stand up to the tyranny of the Romans.  Instead, he quoted the famous “Give to Caesars what is Caesars”.  Jesus led a life of obedience submission to God and to authority - obedience even to the cross you speak of.  Which of us can say that we live a life obedient to God?  Are the things we’re choosing to do glorifying to God or are we chasing after selfish ambitions?  Definitely we should take a stand for the right, as your article states, but we should do so for the correct reasons.  And we should never bring our Lord into this unless he actually is in this.

Also, regarding the gospel…it is not a gospel of “doing” and “action” but rather a gospel of grace and faith.  Ephesians 2:8.  It is the best news that our salvation doesn’t depend on our works since we are all sinners.

-A Christian

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By Outraged, December 6, 2011 at 3:41 am Link to this comment

Re: MissMuch

“it’s not a matter of me or anyone else getting
there and yelling down the mountain.”

Well, I respectfully disagree, but if you’ve got a
plan…. go for it. I hate to speak for others but
that’s not really the impression I get. My take, is
that it’s us V .01%, but hey…. you go for it. You
betcha…...

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By Not One More!, December 6, 2011 at 2:29 am Link to this comment

Occupy Wall Street hasn’t failed.

It is our elected officials, our corporate leaders, our mainstream media have who have failed: not just by refusing to act as kind human beings; but failing to realize how their actions will eventually bring about their own accelerated demise.

Not that there is any solution carried out by any religion (in fact they have been the problem many of the times), but until we the people start considering the needs of the bottom 25%, nothing will be resolved.

There is no peace without justice, and there is no justice if it is based on lies.

http://www.notonemore.us/peacequotes.htm - Peace Quotes

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By MissMuch, December 6, 2011 at 1:59 am Link to this comment

Sorry to keep using the comment box instead of the response but I can’t make it work.
Outraged, I’m sorry you don’t feel the same way but it’s not a matter of me or anyone else getting there and yelling down the mountain. That’s the point! It’s for all of us to get up there together - that’s what’s so great about it. I must get up and go to work now.
Good wishes to everyone for a great day.

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By Outraged, December 6, 2011 at 1:29 am Link to this comment

Re: MissMuch

Your comment: ” it will require the rest of us to
embrace them sincerely.”

I missed this portion of your comment the first time
around, but you betcha…. when you get up that
mountain, and I mean this, SINCERELY….. you be sure
to give a holler to us here down below and we’ll just
be a huggin’ and a kissin’ our
“cousins”.......SINCERELY, I mean it, no really….I
do… SINCERELY…

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By Outraged, December 6, 2011 at 1:14 am Link to this comment

Re: MissMuch

Your comment: ” Nor Outraged does this exclude the
.01%, yes I did not type 1% deliberately. One of our
greatest challenges will be the slow march toward the
INCLUSION of the .01%.”

lol….. Good luck with that. It’s going to be an
awfully BIG, BIG, BIG mountain (you don’t have to lug a pack of any kind do ya’). Of biblical proportions I think. But you just go right on ahead, sure. I’ll watch from here…..

Just give a holler when you get there and the rest of us 99.99% will come a runnin’.

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By Lafayette, December 6, 2011 at 12:11 am Link to this comment

OTT

CH: The Occupy movement is the force that will revitalize traditional Christianity in the United States or signal its moral, social and political irrelevance. The mainstream church, battered by declining numbers and a failure to defiantly condemn the crimes and cruelty of the corporate state, as well as a refusal to vigorously attack the charlatans of the Christian right

Chris Hedges goes over-the-top, yet again ... confusing Christianity with Political Belief.

The separation of church and state has been a fundamental criteria of American democracy. The Rabid Right has transgressed that belief. Let’s hope the Looney Left does not do the same.

Let the law handle the alleged transgressions, CH. Our nation is one of laws. If their enforcement does not please you, then rail against those agencies responsible for enforcing them.

CH believes that Christ occupied Jerusalem against the Roman believers in false-gods? And therefore Christ’s acolytes have the right to do the same in 2000 years later in America?

Wow! Nice try, Chris ... now pull the other leg.

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By heterochromatic, December 5, 2011 at 11:40 pm Link to this comment

~~~~~Why go after the dummy when the ventriloquist is in view?~~~~~

http://youtu.be/RFGoY4N_Fc4

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By MissMuch, December 5, 2011 at 11:39 pm Link to this comment

For some reason I’m not able to respond to other comments so a quick note.
IMax, I haven’t read all your comments and no doubt you are very clever, however one of OWS’s great strengths is the mutual understanding that it will not be one person who leads us out of the current situation. The time has come for us to stop looking for a ‘daddy’ figure and grow into mature beings. Whilst there will be those such as Chris with a more noticeable presence, it’s for all of us to work together, respecting each individual’s innate value and contribution to create a much, much greater future. Nor Outraged does this exclude the .01%, yes I did not type 1% deliberately. One of our greatest challenges will be the slow march toward the INCLUSION of the .01%. Unsurprisingly those within that group have a great deal invested in their position for which they will fight hard. Not only will it take a great deal to move them towards more mutual ground but it will require the rest of us to embrace them sincerely.
For now one of the most useful actions we can adopt is to stop focusing on differences between ourselves. Being alive now is an incredible privilege. It’s an opportunity to take up a huge challenge, to find the very best that we each have to offer and to meld that into a collective power to achieve a great transformation.
Thanks for reading my comment.
Rosie Much

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By kmdyson, December 5, 2011 at 11:36 pm Link to this comment

forget religion…think humanity…

The churches will bite off their noses to spite their faces…they desire power far more than they wish to serve the people….

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By heterochromatic, December 5, 2011 at 11:33 pm Link to this comment

miroslav~~~“when will chris hedges be crucified to become
our one and only martyr?”~~~~

hey, miro, it wasn’t Hedges that was crucified ...it’s was a movement that Hedges
had.

Hedges is so holy that his movements smell like .....teen spirit….or something

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By miroslav, December 5, 2011 at 10:19 pm Link to this comment

when will chris hedges be crucified to become
our one and only martyr?

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By Michael Shaw, December 5, 2011 at 10:15 pm Link to this comment

Chris Hedges is right! Where is that asylum for the poor and the persecuted that is supposed to be the church, or does that asylum exist today only represent a place where businessmen and politicians pretend to believe? I saw a big story recently about how the Catholic Church is changing a whole lot of its mass so people have to pay more attention to what is being said. It is a new interpretation of its old Latin translations. But in this case of their turning their backs on OWS, the real question is are they the ones paying attention, not only to the reasons why OWS is out there, but their own doctrine?

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By IMax, December 5, 2011 at 9:50 pm Link to this comment

Anarcissie, - “Why go after the dummy when the ventriloquist is in view?”

-

Very clever. Clearly you’re feeling manipulated and powerless.

As you see the world your question bares asking. But, I wonder, what will it take for you to offer real direction? Or a solution or two? You ignore the massive tools available legislatively in favor of??? You never do say.

I offer a potentially powerful, doable, large and possibly historic redirection of “people power” and you you offer…...????

You never do say.

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By Outraged, December 5, 2011 at 9:48 pm Link to this comment

It seems some are overly sensitive to people of faith
being a part of Occupy. This is silly.

Haven’t you heard, THEY WILL NOT BE CO-OPTED!

OTOH, all are welcome…. well except for that pesky
.01%. It isn’t a matter of co-option in my mind, it
is merely one of alliances. I see no problem there.
Sure the Limbaugh’s of this world will “let the shit
fly” so to speak. But they’ll do that anyway, I don’t
see that as a cause for concern. I also know that
most are fed up with that gaseous whore and those
like him.

This is about ALL OF US…... it’s pretty straight
forward in that regard. The more the merrier…and each in their own way.

Come one, come all, time to turn this rig around.

beep…beep…beep…

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By katsteevns, December 5, 2011 at 9:42 pm Link to this comment

The Beatitudes; like getting a hug from God his self; a place of comfort in any storm !

Seeing this is much better than, say; “It makes no difference to me if Jesus existed or not. There is no historical evidence that he did.”

There are things in the NT that not even Satan his self could dream up, never mind mere men who want to exploit the herd. And the wheat will be separated from the chaff….even within the Word, it seems.

But if I am wrong, and there is no God, who then will avenge the deaths of the countless innocents? Who will remember them? It’s like a wound that will always be open.

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By rumblingspire, December 5, 2011 at 9:18 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Spanky & Our Gang - Give A Damn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfQ9FBu7UB4

“give a damn
about your fellow man”

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By Kalsi, December 5, 2011 at 9:06 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I agree with the radical message of the Gospels. 
Almost always it gets watered down, twisted,
and reinterpreted to comfort our well being. 

As a former Catholic who leans Episcopalian
nowadays, I can say that the big problem with
the churches is the same with politics - money!
Too often the parishes I’ve been involved with
focus on fund raising to meet some perceived
important demands such as a new statue, plaza,
building or some arcane ministry.  This is about
the only time the clergy come to life and hound
the congregation.  Even more damning is when a
wealthy donor funds the project and has it
named after him/her.

Until money is removed, the church will function
like a corporation and not as the Christian
presence it claims from the Gospels.

I see the occupy movements as providing a path
of reform for the Catholic Church and other
churches as well.  The churches would do well to
heed the messages of the movement and act on
them.

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By Anarcissie, December 5, 2011 at 8:58 pm Link to this comment

IMax, December 5 at 5:55 pm

‘... Occupy the U.S. Congress.`

Why go after the dummy when the ventriloquist is in view?

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By Flickford, December 5, 2011 at 8:49 pm Link to this comment

It’s a good thing that Christians remind other Christians what their belief is
supposed to be about. For the rest of us the hallmarks of the OWS Movement -
non-violence, tolerance, empathy and inclusion - while fighting violence,
intolerance, arrogance and exclusion are inspiring enough and can’t fail to keep
winning hearts and minds all over the world. Belief in fairness is universal and
transcends the need for the Christian Church’s approval or participation in OWS.

And to the troll patrol who likes to reduce the OWS movement by charges of
petulance, criminality and failure - listen to what your guru spin-meister Luntz
has to say about OWS and learn to reframe your pitiful screeches into the void:

– Don’t Mention Capitalism

– Empathize With The 99 Percent Protesters

– Don’t Say Bonus, say “pay for performance” instead.

– Don’t Mention The Middle Class Because Americans Don’t Trust Republicans
To Defend It

– Don’t Talk About Taxing The Rich: Luntz reminded Republicans that
Americans actually do want to tax the rich, so he reccommended they instead
say that the government “takes from the rich.”

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By Gloria Picchetti, December 5, 2011 at 7:39 pm Link to this comment

I hate religion messing up my life: for example the Teri Schiavo case & Faith Based Inititiatives - things of that sort.
My family came here in the 1600s to practice our faith. If you do not want to practice our faith, please, don’t do it.

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By John Steinsvold, December 5, 2011 at 7:31 pm Link to this comment

An Alternative to Capitalism (if the people knew
about it, they would demand it)


Several decades ago, Margaret Thatcher claimed:
“There is no alternative”. She was referring to
capitalism. Today, this negative attitude still
persists.


I would like to offer an alternative to capitalism
for the American people to consider. Please click on
the following link. It will take you to an essay
titled: “Home of the Brave?” which was published by the Athenaeum Library of Philosophy:


http://evans-
experientialism.freewebspace.com/steinsvold.htm


John Steinsvold

“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and
expecting a different result.”
~ Albert Einstein

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By David J. Cyr, December 5, 2011 at 7:30 pm Link to this comment

If people are to overcome concentrated corporate power they’ll need to do it with their collective people power.

The corporate (R) & (D) party protected predations won’t ever be ended by relying upon noble interventions of [rapacious] super-rich sponsors (as a despondent Ralph Nader has suggested), nor by having useless faith in the absent assistance of any non-existant imaginary supernatural friends.

Jill Stein for President:

http://www.jillstein.org

Voter Consent Wastes Dissent:

http://chenangogreens.org/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=498&Itemid=1

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By Grumpy Old Man, December 5, 2011 at 7:25 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

String together every social gospel cliché, drop the name of every pink celeb you can think of, and you couldn’t equal this banana split of self-righteous upliftery. Like A.M. Rosenthal, I suppose Hedges is writing as badly as he can.

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By GradyLeeHoward, December 5, 2011 at 7:20 pm Link to this comment

Hedges comment illustrates how attending seminary can be hazardous to mental health. Occupy needs Christianity less than Christianity needs Occupy.
And America needs Occupy more than it needs Christianity. Making Christianity integral to Occupy co-opts something self-sufficient and makes it seem Messianic. Voo-doo got us in this fix, and deeper voo-doo will not get us out.

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By IMax, December 5, 2011 at 6:55 pm Link to this comment

chuckwagoncharlie,

With few words you have made more sense than anything Mr. Hedges (occupywallst.org) has ever said or written.

Take back the country from Wall Street? Absolutely! Occupy the places rules and laws are conceived. Occupy your school Board. Occupy the U.S. Congress. Occupy your time and efforts toward meaningful, tangible, and lasting change!

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By zolmynovitsch, December 5, 2011 at 6:41 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Nice to hear the roar of the Lion of Judah, separating the wheat from the chaff. If the few still in church pews were only alive. Will they be resurrected before our eyes ? Live free or die.

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By James M. Martin, December 5, 2011 at 5:32 pm Link to this comment

Mr. Hedges, don’t you realize that religion is part of the problem, not the solution.  Do you think for a minute that the evangelicals, with their Prosperity Gospel, and the U. S. Conference of Bishops, with their anti-abortion violations of women’s rights, even know or care about the Sermon on the Mount.  The Protestants think they’ve done their part by evangelical service for a couple of weeks in Guatemala or Guyana, and the Catholics sit on their palms while fanatics attack and in some cases kill medical personnel.  No mind that your brand of faith looks positively sane next to the Phred Phelpses and John Hagees, you enable them to proliferate, often as megachurches, by failing to see that the only god there is is the one between your ears: there is no god but Man.

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By steffiedb, December 5, 2011 at 5:10 pm Link to this comment

Chris Hedges:
We are a clergy couple and we don’t know when we have
been more moved.  The courage and clarity of this
article touches our hearts and spirits deeply.  You
probably don’t want to be called a prophet but more
and more we believe you are one and one that our
world and in particular, the church needs to listen
to you.  That refuse to listen at their peril.  The
church is dying and will continue to die unless and
until it stands up for the values that Jesus taught
and the church has long forgotten.
Blessings to you and thanks

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By terry p, December 5, 2011 at 4:56 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

By Lumpenproletarier, December 5 at 2:05 pm

I think you may have missed the point. The point is that there are a small % that are to big to fail. They are to big to have to pay attention to the rules. They are to big for the law so they are above it. They even make the law. They are to big period.


I keep promoting “The Web of Debt” by Ellen Brown because she exposes banks owned by these big moneyed people. We have endured them for hundreds of years. We now know about them.

We are big in numbers. We are the 99%. Some of us are still confused and think they are part of that tiny fraction of a percent(the so called GOP). They need to wake up.

There are other books to read. Read Dean Henderson’s 5 part article beginning with this link > http://deanhenderson.wordpress.com/2011/06/01/the-federal-reserve-cartel-part-i-the-eight-families/ <
for eye opening revelations about who the culprits are.

Long live the Occupations!

tp:?)

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By OzarkMichael, December 5, 2011 at 4:48 pm Link to this comment

I came here just now to post a criticism of the old title. I sat here looking at the page and wondering how I could have gotten it so wrong…

Good pick up on the article title change, Lumpen.

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By doublestandards/glasshouses, December 5, 2011 at 4:46 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

If you like Chris Hedges you’ll like Morris Berman.
This is a talk - with questions from the audience - which he gave at a bookstore November 4th this year on his new book, WHY AMERICA FAILED, The Roots of Imperial Decline.  He has a lot to say about the American predilection for violence, and the complete dissolution of American society which could come within the next ten years.

http://www.tvw.org/media/mediaplayer.cfm?evid=2011110059

His website is http://www.morrisberman.blogspot.com

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By chuckwagoncharlie, December 5, 2011 at 4:38 pm Link to this comment

I feel those protesting both by OWS and the Tea Party crowd represent the frustration of the general population and their desire to clean house in Washington D.C. . I do disagree with all the finger pointing to Wall Street as the culprit. The Culprit is our Politicians and their Policies which favor Banks,War Machine Manifacturers and Corporations.
As I see it the OWS should be sitting on the steps of Congress. They should determine how many of the favored few in Congress have become millionaires through insider information over the past 10 years.

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By Vaco, December 5, 2011 at 4:16 pm Link to this comment

@imax
I never agreed that violence is needed for change.
You seem determined to find holes in the Occupy
movement, like it is not up to your standards. When
you start a movement give me a call, because I’m sure
it will be perfect and everyone will follow your
instruction perfectly with no ‘bad apples’. Then we
can salute you and make a statue of Imax sitting on a
chair pointing a finger.

This movement is the fastest growing movement in
history. It speaks to people. (people with a
attention span longer then 1 month)Mistakes need to
be made, victories need to be won, along with growing
pains. This is a slow process even, with the
internet.  Stop sitting around waiting for the world
to come to you. This is the time for action (non-
violent action).

Go to your local Occupy, ask questions, debate. Shrink your ego and listen to people. No joke. This
is literary our last chance to move the power away
from money and back to real live people before we
cook the world with our own greed or we can wait for
a movement that is up to your standards.

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By Lumpenproletarier, December 5, 2011 at 4:11 pm Link to this comment

When I first read Heges most recent column entry, the title was “Where were you when they crucified my movement”. Now the title reads “Where you you when they crucified my Lord”.

Why the change Chris? Do you change the title of your articles often?

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By Union Member, December 5, 2011 at 4:02 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Writer C.P. Snow said: “More evil is done in the name of conformity, than in the
name of rebellion.”

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By Union Member, December 5, 2011 at 3:53 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

George Bernard Shaw - who was a Christian - once asked a question like: ’ Must
every generation crucify a Christ for the benefit of those with no imagination?”

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By Ron O, December 5, 2011 at 3:50 pm Link to this comment

Agnostics and atheists can get on board with Chris’ message as well as Christians. I see the gospels including the beatitudes as an ETHICAL code more than a religious manifesto, and it is a code that is difficult to discredit or argue with. Tolstoy goes into this in great detail in his book “The Kingdom of God is Within You”, part of which is a condemnation of the Orthodox church as an instrument of suppression and a defender of the status quo. Tolstoy says to live by the gospels and discard much of the rest.

The official Church, whether Roman, Orthodox or Reformed, seems to regard social stability via the state as their primary mission and the teachings of Christ as secondary. Chris is expecting a lot from modern religious institutions when they have changed very little from the Middle Ages when cathedrals were ornamented with gargoyles and demons to terrify the illiterate populace into obedience.

I am not saying he is wrong, but the Occupy movement is a justifiable wholesale repudiation of the corporate centered status quo, much bigger than even the Civil Rights movement. The clergy are terrified to oppose the system as they have been throughout history. Chris’ article is something that needed to be said, but if he is looking for allies, he had better look elsewhere. And being a Divinity School graduate, I’m sure he is aware of it.

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By Ralph Kramden, December 5, 2011 at 3:24 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I don’t trust religious leaders including Chris Hedges. The Berrigan brothers, yes and Saint Francis. The bible is one of the most ridiculous books ever written. Hedges mentions Advent, Mary and Joseph leaving Nazareth. Well, get real, there are four different versions of the story in the New Testament, in one they left, in another Mary stayed for the 40 or so days of purification, in another they never moved and on and on.And Jesus was not born in December, Christmas is just the Christians co-opting the pagan Winter Solstice.It is so obvious, they even co-opted the pagan Christmas tree. I understand and agree with his basic premise, that the New Testament is decidedly on the side of the poor and the wretched of the earth. Yet we keep getting a whipping and Jesus never shows up. Furthermore, Jesus never said anything against slavery, Oh, I forgot, he did—-don’t beat them so hard that their eyes pop out. Another thing, explain to me why the bible can be used to support the poor and also to justify Torquemada, slavery.There is nothing inconsistent with slavery and the New Testament. Jesus was a fool, he thought fig trees should bear fruit even out of season, that madmen were possesed by demons and so the poor pigs were to die. What were pigs doing in a Jewish town anyway? Point being, moral angle is the final analysis, but it will come from a humanitarian perspective not from a silly, mythical, superstitous book such as the babble. Oh, and what about the one “he who is without sin throw the first stone.” We should have let Hitler go? Why is there such a thing as Dr. in theology? How about Dr. in mumbo Jumbo? So I admire your actions but I certainly suspect your motives Mr. Hedges, they are based on silly supertitions. But al least you are doing something to stop this monster.Remember Nietzche: “The last Christian died on the cross.” Except for Saint Francis and the Berrigans, he was right.

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By Textynn, December 5, 2011 at 3:24 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I came across this. Is it true. IF so , so much for Christianity helping the people.

Two Constitutions in the United States. 1st was suspended in favor of a Vatican corporation in 1871.
http://presscore.ca/2011/?p=4448

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By Robespierre115, December 5, 2011 at 3:12 pm Link to this comment

Excellent piece by Hedges. READ people, go READ about the Anabaptists, German Peasant’s War and Thomas Muntzer. READ. That’s all I’ll post here since there was already a lengthy debate under the “Jesus And The 99%” article.

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By IMax, December 5, 2011 at 3:10 pm Link to this comment

“It is about everything we want and everything we need to take our country back.” - TruthDigger of the week, Robert Reich

vaco,

I wholeheartedly agree with you in regards to Goldman Sachs. Thus the reason I refuse to stop referring to the petulant children who are drawn to the Occupy demonstrations. - I have always noted that the idiocy on display has come from a small few. That fact does not, however, change the end result. The result being thousands of violent and unlawful actions surrounding nearly every large Occupy gathering. - Choose any city and I will show you.

I care a great deal about income inequality and government/corporate corruption. In fact I now believe I care a great deal more about these issues than do many of the most vocal here on the pages of TruthDig. If you look closely, vaco, you will see that it is the violence and mayhem, the desire to cause others pain and discomfort, the superficial “thrill” which is most admired here.  NOT the issues you and I care most about.

Occupy organizers must accept responsibility for the consequences of past and future violence initiated by elements within the crowd and decide to take the Occupy message to Phase 2*. If they fail at this, protesters risk alienating many Americans who quietly support the message. - Support is falling as time goes on. Not rising.

-

“They are not dysfunctional, they are political terrorists, determined to destroy the nation so they can rebuild it to their own specifications… - Rush Limbaugh

REMEMBER: All it takes is a little old lady with a funny little hat and a sign which reads ‘We want Our Country Back’ to be labeled a dangerous, racist, terrorist by the ideologically opposed.

*Occupy the U.S. Congress!

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By MissMuch, December 5, 2011 at 3:09 pm Link to this comment

Dear Chris,
Thank you so much.

Only today I wrote on 350’s Facebook page that this uprising is not so much revolution or radicalism but adherence to the law. By which I mean the universal law by which all beings including Mother Earth herself are protected. Your piece is beautiful played with perfect pitch for a country where Christianity is the dominant belief system - in theory. Perhaps it will remind those ‘theoretical Christians’ that a fundamental premise of that faith is caring for others.
I thank you for your wonderful work. I do plan to donate in the very near future - when funds allow!
To finish here is a very beautiful quote from one of the greats.
?“Remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall - think of it, ALWAYS.” - Gandhi
With very best wishes to you and yours.
Rosie Much

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By Lumpenproletarier, December 5, 2011 at 3:05 pm Link to this comment

My point, Abion, Ozark, Joshua, and others, is that if you define a boundary of “Us” and “Them” based on socio-economic status (which is by definition what the 99% slogan does), then at some point, everyone can be identified as the “Them”.

Consider a hypothetical case: If the “1%” all got on a cruise ship, and the ship sank, and they all drowned, would the world change? I posit that it would not. Even if their wealth was divided equally amongst all the inhabitants of the earth, there would still be “1%” of the population with more wealth than the other “99%”.

Look at it another way: The GNP of the earth is roughly 50 trillion dollars per year. That means about $7,300 for each of the 7 billion human beings on earth. Do you think Hedges is going to settle for living on $7,300 per year even if Jesus wispers in his ear that it would be a good idea?

Protesting to the Plutocracy has never resulted in real change. Ever. Only subtle modifications have ever been achieved in that way. Change doesn’t come by begging for a larger share. In fact, “protesting” is actually a tool of the Plutocracy to give us something to do and distract us while they go about running the world.

If you want change, stop participating in the whole system. Human beings have lived on this planet for 2 million years; all but the last three hundred of it without captitalism. No one is forcing us to live this way. Make a real choice for change; live differently. You are born with everything you need to survive on this planet.

Millions are unemployed in the US at this very moment. That’s ten’s of millions of man-hours available starting right now, today.

Is the best use of that time standing around in a park waiting for handouts or “justice”? Let’s go build something new.

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By YoungGringos, December 5, 2011 at 3:00 pm Link to this comment

IMax - “Now Occupy has become a spectacle and a
complete embarrassment for the majority of the liberal set.”

Jay-  God, save us from the ‘liberal set’.

____________________

Amen, brother.  At least it’s good to know liberals
are still capable of embarrassment.

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By sand11, December 5, 2011 at 2:58 pm Link to this comment

Thank-you, Chris Hedges, for an amazing, inspiring article.

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By tjmax116, December 5, 2011 at 2:57 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This is why we occupy.

  Unwinnable wars————-Trillions
  Big Banks———————-Trillions
  Forign Aid———————Billions
  Corporate Tax Breaks——Billions
  Homeowners———————0
  Seniors/Elderly————-0
  Veterans————————0
  Students————————0
  What is wrong with this picture?

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By gerard, December 5, 2011 at 2:55 pm Link to this comment

To hear him tell it, Ozark Michael must be spending 24 hours a day following all the Occupiers everywhere, watching, listening, poking around for dirt, hoping for the worst!  In the course of his petty peregrinations, as he sniffs the foul air, digging criminal allegations out of dumpsters, he wants to know;  “What gave them the right to pretend to speak for the lower classes?”
  That is certainly a question that never entered the heads of Gahdhi or Martin Luther King or Jesus or Angela Davis!  No.  They knew without the shadow of a doubt that they were not only entitled, they were COMMISSIONED BY THEIR CONSCIENCE to “speak for the lower classes.”
  That’s the difference between Michael and them He feels commissioned by his conscience to speak AGAINST Occupy Wall Streeters.  Some people’s consciences are a bit less sensitive to the pains of the “lower classes” and more sympathetic toward the protection of the “higher classes”.
  What we need to learn from people like Michael is why?  Why is hs so eager for the Occupiers to fail?  What bent him in this chilly direction when he was a child?  Why can’t he work for and defend the 99% as they struggle to find their way through political minefields deliberately set to destroy them?
  His use of a term like “petulant children” may be a clue.

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By MARIO NARANJO MOLINA, December 5, 2011 at 2:54 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I´LL TELL YOU WHAT THAT CHURCH YOU PRAISE DID IN MY COUNTRY ( SPAIN )
FOR MANY MANY MANY YEARS UNDER FRANCO´S REGIME. THEY CREATED A CIVIL
WAR AND SHOT A LOT OF PEOPLE HELPING THAT CRIMINAL TO REMAIN IN POWER
FOR FORTY YEARS STOMPING ON THE SPANIARDS FREEDOM AND RIGHTS. THE
CATHOLIC CHURCH AND ALL THE OTHER CHRISTIAN ORGANIZATIONS HAVE THEIR
HANDS STAINED WITH THE BLOOD OF PEOPLE FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS. ALL THEY
WANTED WAS TO HAVE THE POWER OVER OUR MINDS AND OUR BODIES. THEY
HAVE THE BIGGEST HISTORY OF BLOOD ON THEIR BACKS AND IF WE LET THEM
THEY´LL DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN. NOTHING TO DO WITH CHRIST´S TEACHINGS…
PERIOD.

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By Anarcissie, December 5, 2011 at 2:52 pm Link to this comment

OzarkMichael, December 5 at 1:04 pm:

‘... There was “nothing about the material condition of their life that was in jeopardy”, yet these elites were pretending to be ‘there’. What gave them the right to pretend to be speak for the lower classes?’

A good question to ask about any movement, be it the American Revolution, Abolitionism, the Civil Rights movement, and so on.  It seems to be the way things go:  A small minority make a lot of trouble on behalf of a lot of other people who can’t or won’t do it for themselves.  Should they ‘win’, they’re soon rejected or forgotten or turned into the heroes of impossible fables, along with their movements.  But on the way to victory and oblivion, they’re always reviled and calumniated.  It’s no way to win a popularity contest.

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By Textynn, December 5, 2011 at 2:45 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I don’t believe the American churches will do anything. I know that is shitty to say but I don’t.  We have seen that so many people believe that just attending church makes them a good person and many feel they are superior to most. 

I’ve seen so many people that go to church on Sunday and then exploit their employees in every conceivable formula such as hour splicing and so forth and voting against working people.  The example of Pat Robertson has taught people that war and theft of working people is good. They have infected the Christian world with their demon broadcasts and seemingly doe eyed , sugar wouldn’t melt in their mouths, anchors spewing contempt of the down trodden people of this nation. 

I don’t know what the answer is but counting on the Christians ain’t it. Most all are indoctrinated in the justification of evil while candy coating with Christianity.

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By Synonymos, December 5, 2011 at 2:41 pm Link to this comment

Comment #12345 by terry p on 12/05 at 1:34 pm

to OzarkMichael, balkas & IMax among others disengaged:

:?)
Something wonderful is going to happen boys!
Get out of the way & stay tuned. The Occupations are a here to stay or till things change for the better. Doncha just love it - boys;?)


The 99%ers are not going to move aside for the same crooks that basically ruined our country. They might retreat but the country sees who the bad guys are each time an occupant is harassed, beaten or arrested. We keep a comin back!

The more the politicians try to remove the occupations the more people they will inspire to join the occupations.


Another bailout for those Wall Street Bankers is due but not going to happen without a massive response. In fact I’m thinking a lot of prosecutions of wall street banksters are going to take place after this ‘peaceful’ war is over. At least the activist are peaceful!

Chris Hedge, your occupation god is not dead. He has been walking beside you all along. He’s the spirit of all the people who see and pay attention to the truth. Thanks for not giving in and writing to muster up courageous constituency with moral awareness and justice reaching out for massive conscientiousness.

tp:?)

Do yourselves a favor boys - read “The Web of Debt” by Ellen Brown and ‘hey’—- chill out with all the hateful BS. And Happy occupied holiday season :?]

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By Stephen, December 5, 2011 at 2:29 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The more important question to ask is how otherwise
intelligent and educated adults can still believe in
the childish fairy-tale nonsense of religions. In this
day and age, it is just so utterly embarrassing.

Christianity is in its death throes and good riddance
to one of the largest con jobs in the history of the
human apes.

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By berniem, December 5, 2011 at 2:27 pm Link to this comment

Christianity, since its heyday back when ignorance was the common state of humankind, has been apologizing for its lack of reason and attaching itself to whatever coat tails of power that have been handy. Currently, I find it to be about as worn as the dogma of unfettered capitalism. Both have shown themselves to be a fraud as applied to the forward progress of humankind as a whole. Capitalism has been revealed as a legalized swindle while christianity a lie as an instrument for peace. Face it, if Jesus were truly the “Prince of Peace” after 2000 yrs. don’t you think that such a losing record would have gotten him fired if the whole thing wasn’t a myth to begin with?

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