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Live Chat: Chris Hedges on Global Warming

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Posted on Jul 21, 2010
Chris Hedges

(Page 2)

11:24 Truthdig
Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:24:08 GMT
Comment:

 Question from Richard Nixon: Chris, in your recent article you wrote “Why c[...]ontinue to obey the laws and dictates of our executioners?” Can you expand on this a little. I took this as laws may need to be broken to get decent climate change reform.


11:28 Chris Hedges
Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:28:00 GMT
Comment:

 (To Richard Nixon) Well, it’s very clear that the people who control the power systems have no interest in power change reforms because it would mean their extinction. So those of us who care about effecting change have to find mechanisms outside of the political structure, which Henry Thoreau wrote about in “Civil Disobedience,” where he analyzed an individual’s [relation] to the state and the moral questions of whether human beings should obey laws when they are immoral or, in this case, self-destructive. And I think that the questions that Thoreau asks are ones that we have to ask, and I think we have to follow in Thoreau’s footsteps where he writes about what he calls the machine. Thoreau writes about how many people around him are opposed to slavery and the war, but rather than expressing their opinions they sit around and do nothing about it. He said they hesitate, regret, sometimes petition, but nothing that actually has an effect. 


11:28 Question From Michael Marsh
Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:28:04 GMT
Comment: Can there be an alliance between the philosophical, libertarian right and the moral left to confront the duopoly that is destroying the planet and our country?


11:28 Chris Hedges
Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:28:52 GMT
Comment:

 (To Michael Marsh) There is no left in this country, that’s the problem.

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11:28 Truthdig
Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:28:59 GMT
Comment:

 We’ll take one more question after this, but we’ll open up the discussion to everyone after Chris has to go.


11:30 Chris Hedges
Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:30:45 GMT
Comment:

 (Continued answer to Michael Marsh) I suppose on some issues, yes, on issues on freedom from search and seizure, freedom of the press, other civil liberties. Many libertarians and firm supporters of free market capitalism and minimal government regulation and taxation, they reject the welfare state, and these are issues where the traditional left will not be in agreement with traditional libertarians. 


11:31 Question from Peter From Ontario
Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:31:11 GMT
Comment: I’m a bit cynical about the idea of uprooting the powerful institutions that have created this mess. I realize this is throwing you a softball, but don’t you think anyone that tries to rebel will be squashed like a bug? I mean, I look around at my family and neighbours, and see people that have been indoctrinated by the same message, “focus on yourself right now and don’t worry about anything that will happen later on”. Whenever I share your column with family and friends, they always give the same response—quit trying to wreck the good times for the rest of us and get a real job.


11:35 lsmarr via twitter
Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:35:24 GMT
Comment:

 China will be the central battleground for climate change RT@bbcscitech: China overtakes the US in energy consumption http://bit.ly/9pjxGG


11:37 Comment From radson
Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:37:07 GMT
Comment: Capitalism’s greatest fear is self-sufficiency.


11:37 dbenwoods via twitter
Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:37:17 GMT
Comment:

 It’s so much easier to deny climate change in the winter. ... Warmest June on record globally - http://bit.ly/boqfey #cnn


11:41 Chris Hedges
Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:41:38 GMT
Comment:

 Well, America has produced a country of people who’ve never had to grow up. They live in this illusion that reality is not an impediment to what they desire. They can have everything they want, they just have to dig deep within themselves, grasp that they are truly exceptional or believe that Jesus can produce miracles. It’s a form of magical thinking that is fed to us from the media to the corporations, from Oprah to Hollywood to corporatism to the Christian right, and it has created a society where we are captivated by illusion, an illusion about who we are and where we’re going, and that’s a very common characteristic among dying civilizations that lack the emotional fortitude to grasp that the world’s [institutions] are crumbling around them so they retreat into the magical. If you read Cicero or Joseph Roth, Freud (end of Austro-Hungarian) they saw very clearly, both the disintegration and the capacity of people around them to accept it. The danger is when you remain in a state of illusion, you essentially perpetuate an infantilism that leaves you unprepared, physiologically, intellectually and emotionally for collapse, and when collapse comes, you react like children, you search for a savior, a demagogue, someone who promises vengeance, moral renewal and fantastic visions of a new glory. It’s an old, old story, and we are not immune to the cycles of human history. The Greeks did not believe in a linear time, they believed that societies had a period of growth, maturation and decay, and I think the Greeks are right. So when your family doesn’t want to hear, they are retreating into the far more comforting arena of illusions that are provided for them by corporate entities that seek to keep us ignorant and disempowered and stop us from fighting back. And will they crush us like bugs? Probably. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t resist. Resistance is a moral imperative. The problem with the left is that it was seduced by the practical, and that is what killed it as a moral force. We have a commitment to non-historical values, justice, ... protection of life, love, which are of course deemed by the world to be impractical. But which keep alive that possibility of another way of being and another form of community, and at this point I think we have to look at the Middle Ages and the monastic communities that kept alive learning, humanities and life in a time of darkness so that these great contributions of human history are not lost, and that becomes a battle worth fighting because as we enter an age of barbarism, the snuffing out of these great forces of humanism will be tragic for the human race and I think we have to focus much of our energy in trying to protect these non-historical forces, commitments to values, and that’s going to entail rebellion and perhaps even great personal risk. But I think it is worth doing because at this point we can create a structure that can disarm corporatism, but because we can at least protect those virtues that permit people to live in ways that they are not slaves. 


11:41 Truthdig
Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:41:56 GMT
Comment:

 Thanks Chris, thanks everyone!


11:42 Truthdig
Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:42:05 GMT
Comment:

 Stay here, we’re opening the floodgates.


11:42 Chris Hedges
Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:42:26 GMT
Comment:

 Thank you, everyone.


11:42 Comment From Sean
Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:42:43 GMT
Comment: Oh my, a bit late from Thailand here. My question is, if I’m not too late, many folks understand and acknowledge the environment crisis but put forth the idea that “man only perseveres in crisis, only when it is a real in-your-face will man react” when pushed, they then place all hope on technology, saying that technology that has yet to be discovered will bring us to not only the end of this crisis, but to a wonderful new future. How does one contend with this kind of talk?


11:42 Comment From Sarah Redmond
Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:42:53 GMT
Comment: Can’t get the audio, is it still live?  2:42 EDST


11:43 Truthdig
Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:43:32 GMT
Comment:

 Hey everyone, quick reminder: Robert Scheer live chat tomorrow.


11:44 Truthdig
Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:44:25 GMT
Comment:

 How was that for everyone?


11:44 Comment From Joe Oborski
Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:44:39 GMT
Comment: Chris, the oligarchs used Hitler’s “Big Lie” and 30 pieces of silver to win over the right.  Nader was right all along. As a young man I bathed in blood in Vietnam—I was a fool, I’m sorry. I don’t mind it for me but I have a young daughter, may God have mercy.


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By wassu, August 19, 2011 at 2:46 pm Link to this comment

this chat is so good and interesting.they discus a good topic and share good points and provide a useful information for us.i really like this topic.Global warming is a important issue and need some serious steps to control it.thanks for sharing with us.
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By wassu, July 9, 2011 at 5:58 am Link to this comment

i like your post you do good effort to make it more valuable.
thanks for sharing.
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By Rudolph Muth, January 27, 2011 at 8:11 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Where can one find the reference to your mentioning on 10-17-10:
“legally permitted to hold sick children hostage” by insurance copanies.

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By John Smith, January 4, 2011 at 7:04 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Dear Chris,
I thoroughly enjoyed your Column on “2011 a brave new dystopia”
Brilliant comparative used to help explian whats going on in our current world. I would Love for you to look into the answer to these problems and give your professional opinion of them. You seem to be capable of having Critical Thinking processes and an open mind concerning these dire circumstances that we live in. Please visit the tennants of a “Resource Based Economy” at http://www.thevenusproject.com
I hope this will empower you with hope and thought provoking answers to todays global problems.
Kindest Regards,
John Smith.

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By Pablo, January 4, 2011 at 4:09 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I have read several articles written by Christopher Hedges and was particularly impressed by his book “end of literacy..” which exposes the superficiality not to say bestiality of our modern celebrity and consumer culture.I just have a little problem with this:he also seems to accept the global warming tale as if it is a given fact,when actually it is quite disputable wether global warming is happening at all.Just look at the people promoting this agenda.Or for that matter look at the actuall weather and what is indicated by that.And as we can see they have even stopped to call it global warming by now and have renamed it “climate change”.Well as the   really intelligent and obviously honest man he is i would like to hear what Chris Hedges has to say about this.

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By samosamo, August 4, 2010 at 4:28 pm Link to this comment

****************

 

By Old Man Turtle, August 4 at 12:33 am

Sorry, I can’t relate this to you, just take as a lesson in greed of
sort.

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By Old Man Turtle, August 3, 2010 at 8:33 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Didn’t mean to imply “samosamo” doesn’t at-least recognize the Human need to be fully engaged in the Natural Living Arrangement.  Being so pre-occupied with such a far-fetched hypothetical, however, as the one offered below as an “analogy” (I’m not clear about to what exactly the image of the last two crazed people ‘standing’ is meant to be analogous, though.), suggests an ‘individual’ paying a lot more of their precious attention to the make-believe pyramid-scheme of the economy, for instance, than to “what’s left” of “nature,” however much one claims to appreciate Her.

It’s not unusual for our tame Sisters and Brothers to cling desperately to the notion they can somehow have all their comforts and conveniences and be sort-of “free” at the same time.  A real crippling aversion to ‘either-or’ situations (with which Nature abounds) seems to’ve been bred into them, and the expectation of having their cake and eating it too bred-in, much to their detriment.

These are the general observations of an old man who’s closely studied ‘civilization’ and its actual effects on our Living Arrangement for a very long time, and not intended to reflect specifically on “samosamo” or anybody else in-particular, but if the shoe fits…..

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By samosamo, August 3, 2010 at 5:47 pm Link to this comment

****************


By Old Man Turtle, August 3 at 12:05 am

Well, OMT, I guess I didn’t express my analogy well enough as
the highly competitive destructive mind set of those current day
elite would, if in theory, being the last 2 people on earth, still try
to kill one another for ‘last rights’.

I have no illusions that more sane and caring people would do
what would be possible to carry on in a world after a drastic
reduction in the human population which is at an almost
unsustainable 7,000,000,000~ IS the biggest problem facing this
earth and nature takes care of its problems not to matter how
living things are affected.

And with your pronouncement of my ““no use recommending to
“samosamo” and others in the same condition that they lose
their fake IDentity, step outside the suffocating confinement
their pretend “self,”” is in my eyes wrong. You seem to be saying
you know from my attempt to demonstrate the mind set of those
‘elite’ wanting all for themselve(s) that I have lost my touch with
nature, YOU COULD NOT BE MORE WRONG! It is the major thing
I look for in this world, what is left of it.

So I take from all this that you have no use for such an analog so
there is no use in trying to direct attention to the sick devious
minds of a small %  of people who are of a mind to deny
everything they don’t want others to have.

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By Old Man Turtle, August 2, 2010 at 8:05 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Hanging-out exclusively among domesticated “individuals” can easily lead to the dark view of his/her own kind expressed below by “samosamo.”  It’s lucky for everybody, I guess, that there are at least a few of us free wild Human Beings still around, just in case there are any pieces left to pick-up when that hypothetical doomsday pair do one another in, finally.

It’s probably no use recommending to “samosamo” and others in the same condition that they lose their fake IDentity, step outside the suffocating confinement their pretend “self,” and walk The Way into the Living Arrangement of our Mother Earth.  Any who remember how to do that have likely done it already.

So it could be the only “option” available to the masses of remaining captives is vying to be one of those last two contestants in that “winner”-tale-all fight-to-the finish.  No wonder they’re all on drugs of some kind.

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By samosamo, August 2, 2010 at 5:49 pm Link to this comment

****************


By Old Man Turtle, July 30 at 9:11 pm

Put it this way. If it gets down to just 2 people from this world of
today, both having crapped on people, created great harm and
misery and the annihilation of the rest of humanity, what would
be the odds they would attack and try to kill the other just to
have the stinking pleasure of saying ‘I own the world’. That is the
insane thinking and sick mentality that the people have on this
planet now. Keep in mind that the person who will lie and cheat
to obtain something or anything is probably going to get it.

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By Old Man Turtle, July 30, 2010 at 5:11 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“Night-Gaunt”‘s mechanistic “cosmology” does indeed lead one down a one-way road to a dead-end, the alleged proof being that “99% of all species” have supposedly disappeared into oblivion already.  No wonder the prospects for homo domesticus, with its daily demonstrated tendencies toward ignominious self-destruction, appear so unrelentingly grim to so many of its members.

That seems especially true if their only remedial option now is a sudden massive conversion, at the prompting of some unspecified agency, to behavior that is (atypically) beneficially cooperative instead of (habitually) suicidally competitive.  If all that’s going on here anyway is just a blind urge to “survive” long enough to propagate one’s kind, in a dog-eat-dog world otherwise bereft of “sense and sensibility,” it seems no wonder really that so many of those among its temporary residents who are cursed with only enough of those qualities to be painfully aware, of their meaningless “individual” and common fate, have fallen prey these days to despair.

If “Night-Gaunt”‘s superficial analysis was even moderately correct, then the topical palliative he recommends (“working together”) might’ve proven somewhat effective by now.  The fact is, after all, that many of his Kind are genuinely convinced already of such being (and having been virtually “forever”) the actual “case,” and are trying (and have always been trying) desperately to devise and deliver some ‘incentivizing’ nostrum to address it. 

Since this effort has been on-going for literally ages now, maybe it would be in-order, finally, to ask its advocates how well it’s working, for themselves and all the rest of us?

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By Night-Gaunt, July 30, 2010 at 8:32 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Well Old Man Turtle I am speaking not just in microcosm of nation-state civilization, but the totality of our species is threatened this time. Viruses splice into our genome and leave to voyage and then return with new DNA & RNA to add to our genetic complement. It doesn’t need some alien or other intelligent force to do the splicing. also enviromental pressures play an important part in both the long term phylogeny and short term epigenetic expressions latent in our DNA. We are at a crossroads rather similar to the explosion of the super-volcano “Toba” some 70,000 years ago that removed all human habitation from the other continents leaving the original stock in Africa to spread out again some 20,000 years later. We may not be so fortunate again. We are creating, through neglegence and short sightedness, a Permian extinction kind of change in our entire biosphere.

Even if it were proven that some well advanced human civilization(s) from that time had existed they didn’t make it. Some of my fiction (unpublished) deals with that item. The war depicted in the “Maharabata,” among others may have been a civil war in an empire that spanned continents including our own and used many weapons, both bioforms (like the Baital), fission nuclear and directed energy fighting from under the sea to outer space. Such a society ended its war but it was too exhausted to survive the Mt. Toba explosion that covered the earth in a blanket of ash for hundreds of years. [The Yellowstone Caldera is threatening us now, it is overdue too.]

Evolution operates directly related to what the species has in the way of flexibility and what the enviroment dictates. 99% of species are extinct. Intelligence that we have isn’t essential to survival, just to give something more to an impersonal universe—appreciation and inspection and self awareness. We should not waste these gifts given to us by evolution.

But that kind of galvanization of the entire species to benefit from working together is a sign, that I see, of our behavioral part of our evolution. It is a hurdle where selfishness is replaced with Mutual Aid and working together for a different kind of profit you can’t find in a bank or a balance sheet. If we fail the best that could happen would be billions dead and dying from the climate change effects or those countries who would then defend themselves from the hoards that would come to get at the precious resources like food and fresh water. It will be an ugly dark time. Humanity just might not survive it. We mush and need to change our group behavior now. Wait too long and we won’t be prepared. [The oligarchs will though.]

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By samosamo, July 28, 2010 at 10:43 pm Link to this comment

****************


By Old Man Turtle, July 29 at 12:50 am

If humans could save its self from humanity or vice versa, it
would have done so. And I say the evidence sort of leans to
humans not ‘saving us selves’. If man had not replicated like a
virus or bacteria it definitely would have been a different here
and now.

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By Old Man Turtle, July 28, 2010 at 8:50 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Who exactly was it said, on the record, “Let us make man in our own image and likeness,” and to whom?  “Night-Gaunt” suggests that the still “scientifically” tentative evidence of artificial “gene splicing” in Human DNA, if confirmed, will be traceable to “the Annunaki.”  Googling for ‘evidence of “splicing” in Human genome’ will get you a raft of references, some actually tying what is presently believed (among many orthodox investigators) to be mostly spontaneous “spicing” by the helix itself, to the “intelligent design” theories put forward by some adherents of certain religious doctrines.  That the Human genome is in-fact full of “splices,” however, in whatever way they’ve occurred, is essentially settled “science” these days.

Among our People, whose Living Memory extends to and beyond those singular events that’ve since been mostly mythologized and religiossified by homo domesticus, it is equally “settled” that retro-viral beings from elsewhere have been attempting to degrade all the Natural Vitality here into the degenerate energy they themselves subsist-on.  It is also known that these entities used their ability to manipulate nervous systems to capture many Humans, then operated on them, turning them into the self-replicating sub-species of handicapped “individuals” without which the invasive quasi-organisms were themselves physically incapable of propagating their “civilization” disease.

“Night-Gaunt” seems to feel Humanity must somehow ‘save’ itself from, well, apparently from itself.  That rather common homo-centric solipsism ignores entirely the obvious fact Humanity, as such, does not actually exist and is not even remotely viable by-and-as itself.  We abide within an entire Living Arrangement, as one expression of our Mother Earth’s Vision.  She in-turn abides within and is a Living expression of the great Song ‘n’ Dance of Life Herownself.

The dramatic romanticizing of “US-against-the-world” has been a staple of the captive peoples’ escapist fantasies for ages, but it’s all really just kid-stuff.  It isn’t so much unprecedented levels of “work(ing) together” that’s needed now, as it is essential for the masses of Humans stagnating in a kind of illness-induced immaturity to finally get free of their illusory (but nonetheless effective) confinement by finally growing-up together.

Us surviving free wild Human Beings, along with All Our Relations and countless concerned Life-forms, will be more than happy to help out.  What’s more, our tame Sisters and Brothers are gonna need a lot of it.

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By Night-Gaunt, July 28, 2010 at 9:00 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Be more specific on this “splice” you say has been found. By whom, where, any links? Annunaki would be the ones blamed if indeed such is actually found and verified.

There is some evidence that before long range forms of communication were created some humans seemed to get information from others over long streaches by telepathy. It hasn’t been verified.

It is in our hands, not god or alien or other will pull our fat out of that fire. We will need to work together like never before—a chance to evolve or die. Literally.ac

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By Old Man Turtle, July 27, 2010 at 9:25 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Part of the “civilization” disease’s “process” transforms Humans subjected to it from broad-and-deep-spectrum Sentient Beings into obsessively mono-dimensional “rational” ones.  This in-turn subjects them relentlessly to the degenerative effects of that ubiquitous ‘vicious-cycle’ phenomenon so well described below by “Jaime Cadle.”

There is evidence uncovered of-late by the “human genome” unravellers indicating an artificial “splice” has been made in it (by some so-far unspecified agency at some so-far undetermined point in the “past”), the effect of which has been to short-circuit (which is to say, bluntly, it is to cripple) much of the orders-of-magnitude greater natural aboriginal Human perceptual faculties (especially their intuitive features) and to thereby render the hapless “recipients” extremely over-reliant on an actually quite necessarily limited capacity to “reason.”

It is yet to be “discovered” (by “science,” anyhow) that surviving free wild Human Beings do not carry this “scar,” and are effectively and naturally immune from even the “modern” industrial-strength, armed-force vectors of the “civilization” disease.  It is well-known in some wannabe controlling quarters, however (but kept desperately out-of the “public domain” for fear of obviously drastic consequences to their already disintegrating “global” pyramid scheme), that this immunity is in a certain way communicable.  That is to say, sufficient (in ‘time’ and intensity) exposure of “spliced” domesticated human “individuals,” by actual face-to-face interaction with Natural Human Beings, can have the mutually beneficial effect of prompting the formers’ damaged nervous-systems to “patch-around” the bio-engineered short-circuit, thus recovering for them at-least some of their once altogether natural ability to avoid (and even to escape-from) the heterodyning positive-feedback-loops in which they’ve been trapped, by the wannabe self-perpetuating “habit” which the Sentient “Jaime Cadle” exposes for us here.

So maybe all is not lost, after-all, if only homo domesticus will just take their Medicine.

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By Jaime Cadle, July 24, 2010 at 9:30 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The dehumanizing tendencies of civilization are rooted in the rational mind, not as an obscure defect, but as a direct implication of rational minds doing what rational minds do, conventionalizing.  This means that we are all circuits of a dehumanizing cultural matrix (analogous to the imagery in The Matrix in which a bloodless, non-human entity, which is, nonetheless, of human creation, enslaves humans to its own self perpetuation), and thus, are feeding the beast not only by such obvious means as paying taxes and filling your car with gasoline, but merely by having conventional thoughts.  We’ve known for 2350 years that whole structures possess additional properties which are not attributable to the collective sum of their parts.  Yet we’ve failed to follow this simple philosophical insight to its logical conclusion regarding rational conventionality.  By internalizing conventional agreements we give rise to emergent entities (possessing the property of being MORE THAN the sum of their parts) which then divert the human will to their own needs by way of possession of consciousness.  As our consciousness is driven by the genetic human drive to replicate (that’s what the genome does), that which possesses the human mind will thus be replicated, as when the mind of a politician possessed by the financial incentives provided by lobbyists representing (or replicating) the interests of Lockheed Martin instills in the public a sense of urgency in invading a sovereign nation for the purposes of national security.  Strangely, this replication event follows a long chain of human conventional levels all the way back to some of the first agreements ever made by Homo sapiens.  Our culture is feeding on us as it, by possession of consciousness, replicates itself.  Without those minds which are proprietary to such high level organizational conventions as corporate entities, there is no Lockheed Martin.  Yet, so long as the lower level cultural agreements, upon which the corporate state rests, remain, Lockheed Martin is inevitable.  It’s not “us against them.”  It’s us against us, or at least us against our perception of what “us” is.  We are not the entertainment we consume, the birthday party we throw for our kids, or the sociopolitical commentary with which we may thoroughly agree.  We are not our culture (if we possess the psycho-emotional agility to differentiate the two).  Yet, so long as we continue to identify with those aspects which we hold dear or consider to be harmless we remain proprietors of a cultural matrix from which these homogenizing mega conventions are rising up and gathering us into ever larger pools of helpless, impotent human populous.  Few of us actually realize the extent to which our culture, and thus our collective psyche, is rotten to the core.  Everything has to change, and most of us are just too comfortable to accept that.  Chris Hedges touches on this reality when he tells us that we have to “opt out” (of consumer culture, or whatever).  And he is aware of the unlikelihood of a sufficient number of people choosing this option, as we, generally, are hopelessly entranced.  But I don’t think he has grasped that the dehumanizing tendencies of culture are born of fundamental human characteristics, namely, that it is the very nature of the rational mind which, by giving rise to such complexity as it does, is subject to falling systematically into place within such emergent structures which so become the dominant modes of organization as to perpetuate beyond the grasp of human rationality, without regard to their usefulness or detriment to the organic realm of existence.  Often, Hedges commentary is followed with questions like, “what do we do,” or “how do we fix this,” to which, understandably, he has little to offer in the way of solutions.  The picture is grim.  But I think that an understanding of this human characteristic is the missing element.

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By Night-Gaunt, July 23, 2010 at 8:51 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The problem is big. All the insturments of gov’t and many of the people are taken over by the elite rich oligarchs and run by their minions. It was deliberate & now I heard on Democracy Now (7/23/10) that the local police in Nevada are saying for the local and national press to imbed with them in order to function. They test overseas for what they will ulitmately do here. Drones first unarmed (secret) then official and next time a terrorist act they will be armed. Believe it. Increamental crytpo-fascist creep will strangle what is left of our Republic. As they planned. Failed in 1934 but since the slow death coup started in 1980, they have been winning. Democrat or Republican it does not matter. Corporations so deeply entwined in our gov’t it can’t function without them. Also part of the plan.

They are well aware that with the last local climate crisis in Europe (1200-1800 AD) caused wars, imposition of theocracy and dictatorship smothering free thought. (The USA was an aberration at least in thought, but not deed.) They can use it on a global scale with GCC going on now. Read “Eaarth” by Bill McKibben to see just how much is going on now. While media organs and corporate spokesmen like our president talk about effects on our grand children it is happening to us now.

There are also minor ELE like the end of the Pliestocene for example. Humanity is the wave of the 6th extinction as in majore planetary types. No other force is ongoing both directily and indirectly to eliminate not just species but whole ecologies. Some scientists want to call our present time the Anthropocene. I agree.

Working individually is good but not enough. We need to pool our resources and chuck corporate profits in a global sized Manhattan project to literally remake how we live. End use of all fossil fuels. I just don’t see us as a species doing it. It means lowering our standard of waste and upping the poor’s standards to frugal healthy livable. Or else they will die in t their hundreds of millions. That is a fact. I see the worst kind of scenario where the rich enclave against the teeming poor battering at their boarders to get in. Mass slaughter with high tech mass kill weapons will be used our of “necessity” to accomplish it. Any who fail will be overrun and obliterated. Also a sad fact to come. It won’t even count any pandemics that will assert themselves. Also in the area of population genetics and survivability must happen if we don’t use our intelligence and compassion to alleviate it another way.

Rollzone read “Collapse” by Diamond and you will be informed in your blind areas. The Greeks were taken over by the Romans who lasted for nearly 2,000 years in various forms and splitting toward the end.

There are experts in fields one can draw on to use what they have learned. No one is expert in everything so one must rely on them to use their knowledge.

We are a Zero Level Civilization by some standards. Technology without the wisdom to use it still keeps us in this cesspool we created. The prospects aren’t good for the next 1,000 years.

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By RayLan, July 23, 2010 at 6:06 am Link to this comment

I am only gratified by Chris’s sharp-edged commentary on American culture. He is not a hypocrite - that is tantamount to lying - and he is too honest for his own good - raining down on himself the moral outrage of those who claim positive thinking as a virtue - who shuffle into denial by supposing that the bearer of bad tidings is bad.
You don’t have to be an expert to know that ecological dangers are looming - look - just one oil spoil has caused so much devastation - and the Western hemishpere has been spewing toxins into the ocean of our atmosphere for how long - almost two centuries?
The first step in solving a problem is to admit to it. Kind of like the first step of AA.
Hedges is in a constant struggle to get past that seemingly insurmountable hurdle - since American culture has mesmerized itself with its own wishful fantasies.

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By ProfBob, July 23, 2010 at 5:35 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I’m surprised that the major problem in warming, overpopulation, is not mentioned more. Certainly it’s a hot topic and nobody wants to tackle it—although China did and look what it’s done for their economy! I see so many deniers of climate change that I am appalled that so many people have so little evidence.
I find in reading those sites that say that climate problems are a myth that their evidence is very sparse and inconclusive.
TheRecently I read Book 1 of the free e-book series “In Search of Utopia” (http://andgulliverreturns.info), it blasts their lack of evidence relative to several myths. The book, actually the last half of the book, takes on the skeptics in global warming, overpopulation, lack of fresh water, lack of food, and other areas where people deny the evidence. I strongly suggest that anyone wanting to see the whole picture read the book, at least the last half.

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By ofersince72, July 22, 2010 at 10:08 pm Link to this comment

Thats why they won’t let me on Common Dreams anymore,
because I took off on Hedges one day.
Prole summed it all up in one sentence….

  But I guess I do owe Robert Scheer a thank you for
putting up with me since I know very well he is an
enabler of the Murderers and liars of the Democrat Party.

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By ofersince72, July 22, 2010 at 9:59 pm Link to this comment

Thank You Prole,  I have been tip toeing around that
same assessment.

Alyceobvious…..that was a great post , thank you too.
I am looking forward to view the feeds that you shared

Rollzone…. The catasrophe with the climate is real..
However, they are feeding us wrong information…
McKibbon is wrong and knows it,,,there is no way man can
turn this around…
Gore knows this, and so does James Hanson…
It isn’t going to be a question of hottest summer ever,
see I told you…..there will be many records broken
both hot and cold,  there will be extreme types weather
all over the globe, including floods, drougts, cold, hot.
ect.
The C02 ppm is most likely at 420ppm or above right
now, they quit telling the truth on that at 380ppm.
Man can not bring this down.

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By Richard Nixon, July 22, 2010 at 7:18 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

alyceobvious

I checked the blog. Your doing some good stuff. Congratulations.

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By alyceobvious, July 22, 2010 at 6:46 pm Link to this comment

and in what way is chris hedges an expert on this? he admits that he’s doing nothing to make a difference, that it’s hopeless to try. he’s given up. this position not only not useful or interesting (existentialism has really been done - and done well - already), it just adds to the problem.

i’ve got a LIFE magazine in front of me from 1944. every advertisement contains a message to help the war effort through conservation: “use it up, wear it out, make it do - or do without” is the mantra. not only has almost no one - leadership, influential journalists, etc - suggested lately that we be accountable and responsible for our actions as individuals and as a country, we have been told instead to throw up our hands, to look the other way as these pointless wars unfold, to spend our troubles away. we’ve learned the hard way that our leaders and our corporations are one and the same, and when they do not stand to gain there will NEVER be legislation coming from the top down that will benefit the environment. no one makes a buck when the environment is saved!! only WE THE PEOPLE stand to gain when we find out that we’re happier and healthier without a lot of the things we thought we needed. saving the environment, or at least prolonging its existence, is going to have to be a massive grassroots effort. it’s going to have to start with individual actions - use it up, wear it out, make it do - or do without. seemingly small behavioral shifts DO have the power to grow exponentially as people realize that they DO in fact have some power, and begin to seek more profound ways to make a difference. 

the moment we choose NOT to try to make difference, that’s when heartless cynicism sets in.  and that’s fine - if it feels good, do it. but if it doesn’t feel good, then carry your water around in a glass jar. dry your laundry outside on a sunny day. ride your bike. even if planet earth still ends up not being able to support life six months from now, taking some responsibility now might actually feel good in the meanwhile.

here’s what i’m doing:

my homestead blog: http://www.theobviousobserver.com

the USE HALF NOW campaign on facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/USE-HALF-NOW-CAMPAIGN/316473176497?ref=mf

SPACESHIP EARTH: NAVIGATORS WANTED
http://www.truthout.org/spaceship-earth-navigators-wanted59735

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By rollzone, July 22, 2010 at 4:24 pm Link to this comment

hello. i do not agree with the doomsday scenario of climatology or social decay. the Greeks understood they would grow and blossom and die off, but then grow another society. environmentalism is for city dwellers, and all peoples whom never experience nature. i believe escape to the northern climes is wrong, as it is meant to be to higher elevations. New Mexico would be safer than Louisiana. it will be the loss of breathable oxygen at lower elevations that will be hazardous. without full disclosure about global climate change, near the end, masses of civilization will be scrambling to get into bunkers without available space or provisions; and the great population extermination will be underway. what could you give to the gate keeper?

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By Richard Nixon, July 22, 2010 at 12:25 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I would assume Chris will vote Nader if he runs again or Green Party just based off
his columns. I would also guess that he’ll make it known when the time rolls
around.

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By Old Man Turtle, July 22, 2010 at 12:10 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Maybe what “ofersince72” means by “leadership” is actually Guidance.  The problem with the former has always been its apparently unavoidable deterioration into various cults-of-personality.  The latter, however, needs no “face” or even a “voice” to be effective, just the capacity of The People to recognize it.

Of course the hapless “individual” is quite prone to seek-out and fall-for some charismatic member of his or her own subspecies.  Us surviving free wild Natives prefer taking our cues from our given place in the Living Arrangement, which has never once steered us wrong.  It looks like our domesticated Human relatives could sure use some of that Native Guidance, for a real CHANGE!

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By ofersince72, July 22, 2010 at 12:08 pm Link to this comment

RayLan,  it has been my 61yrs of close observations,
that the debate you speak of is a Collusion between the
Democrats and Republicans to keep the keep polictal
debate Centrist and to try to outline some kind of
meaningful difference between the two corporate parties.
This usually only happens around election time.
  Pretty much,  both parties operate in the same manner
when in power,  that is why we are screwed, bad education
by the public concerning political matters that deeply
affect them,,,,,that has been in COLLUSION with the MEDIA
for their corporate sponsers.
  That is just why I have been hammering Hedges and others to help us find a leader..
There are plenty of Americans that would act responsible
if they had the leadership to help them.  We don’t get
that from the media or the duopoly politicians.
  The airwaves are no longer the Publics.  Both parties
have been hammering at this take away for forty years and
won.  Many of us have been screaming about this media
give away for at least forty years.  But most just woke
up during the Bush II Administration after all the money
ran out and all of our rights had already been taken away.

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By RayLan, July 22, 2010 at 11:45 am Link to this comment

No matter what any political lobby offers as imperative, be it Green for ecological conservation or Working Class for equitable wages, the right will always drone its mantra about cost and the government erosion of individual freedoms. That caricature of the American political situation is nearly impossible to counter - depending as it does on the pre-empting of criticial thought by fear-mongering. Unfortunately the consumer culture in America has almost given up its ability to reason clearly.

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By ofersince72, July 22, 2010 at 9:14 am Link to this comment

No doubt that the ecology is trashed beyond repair and
doubtful that our species will be around in just one
hundred years… but

  I detest, militarism, imperialism, expansionism, and
colonialism, and refuse to vote for anyone that supports
either of these. The Democrat Party , as well as the Pubs
support all of the above policy Cris.

  Who do you suggest we support for a Presidential
candidate in 2012?  And isn’t now the time to start the
fund raising if your choise, like mine , will be an
independent?  I can’t support the Democrat Party.
They don’t seem to mind genocide if it is profitable
for the industrial investors they represent, any
suggestions on this Cris ????????????????????????????

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By ofersince72, July 22, 2010 at 7:49 am Link to this comment

As critical as I am of Hedges at times, I do have much
respect for him.

I did detect some defeatism in his responses.  I too
believe it is over ecologically and it is just “hang in
there baby”, but I refuse to believe that to be an
excuse for apathy.
Many of us are doing what we can to have the least
imprint on the ecology that we posibly can have, most of
these same ones will always continue to fight military
expansion and mitlitarism.  What we don’t have is leader-
ship.  I will always refuse to vote “lesser of evil”.
I will never vote for a candidate that talks fluff while
launching bombs on innocent human beings all around the
world.
  That is why I believe that journalists that have access
to a wide readership, and, also believe that our society
has been taken over to the point that the traditional
election process is no longer capable of a change, should
be helping us find that leader.  Hedges admits all is
lost with the two party system we have; we need an
alternative, that is where he and others could most help
us right now.  That has been my major complaint with
not just Cris Hedges, butwith all of the major journalists
that understand the collusion of the duopoly.

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By kerryrose, July 21, 2010 at 4:55 pm Link to this comment

I missed this, but the question that keeps plaguing me is not ‘What should we do?”  but ‘What can make life meaningful now?’

I mean, Hedges does believe turning the corporate culture around is still possible, but I’ve heard it is too late, anyway.

I don’t know.  My father saw things when he was a soldier that I don’t think he was ever able to reconcile. I hear Hedges say something very similiar about his own experience.

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By samosamo, July 21, 2010 at 3:39 pm Link to this comment

****************


Well, I missed this but I have quickly noticed, being a chat on
global warming, that everybody keeps pointing at anything that
really is nothing about the real reason and causes of global
warming as far as human’s part goes, even though hedges is
correct that what the changing climate is doing right now is
irreversible. But Mackenzi’s trying to pin global warming on meat
production would be correct if he was talking about the human
population. No one at really anytime or anywhere ever considers
that the number of humans was becoming so large as to be
catastrophically unsustainable and unsupportable.

But one of hedges replies is pretty much assured and that is the
corporatists are, in their greed, killing the ecosystem that life in
a reasonable number is reliant upon for survival. Too many
people is the problem and it is too late to do anything about that
except what nature will sooner than later will do it and that is
reduce any species that has become over numerous. And a lot of
people will not be happy about that.

Consider the factors, too many people; a natural reoccurring
phenomenon called climate change or ice ages if you want; piss
poor stewards from the ‘intelligent’ species(or just plain chicken
shits who tolerate a certain segment of people to run rough
shod over the rest) of the planet, if that was ever a reality; the
invention of money and lust for shiny and bright things; the use
of mostly empty technology as narcotics and goodness knows
how many others all points to another major E.L.E (extinct level
event). Not surprising as the last on was 65,000,000 years ago. I
see it also that a little intelligence is a dangerous thing but a lot
of intelligence is disastrous because the ‘more intelligence and
technology’ the higher the likely hood it won’t be beneficial.

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By Richard Nixon, July 21, 2010 at 1:43 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This was a great conversation. I hope he does more of these. Excellent questions
all around the board.

I was a little surprised to hear that he heats his home and isn’t as environmentally
friendly as he could be, since he knows it will help somewhat.

If Chris reads this: thanks for being the past 3 Adbusters. The articles in there
have been great.

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