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Posted on Apr 16, 2012
Illustration by Mr. Fish

By Chris Hedges

(Page 2)

“Their support of MEK is far worse than any of the pre-emptive prosecution cases,” Downs said. “They are literally engaged in material support for terrorism. But of course they’re not being prosecuted. ... The whole thing is a game. It’s not serious law enforcement. It is political posturing. This will bring the law into contempt. It will bring the mechanisms of prosecution into contempt and eventually it will destroy the legal system.”

“Justice is now justice for corporations,” he went on. “Anybody who interferes with the corporations, who interferes with their profits, who interferes with their rights, will become labeled ‘terrorists.’ They become people we need to get rid of. Judges, politicians and lawyers all feed at the same corporate trough. And that is why their decisions increasingly are corporate decisions.”

Downs holds out a faint hope that it may be possible to force the Justice Department to turn over exculpatory evidence—evidence of a defendant’s innocence that by law the prosecution must disclose to the defendant but an obligation that the prosecutors frequently ignore. He said he is certain there is exculpatory evidence in government vaults that could free many of those pre-emptively prosecuted. Government prosecutors, however, do not willing sabotage their own cases by turning over evidence that would exonerate those they seek to condemn. Downs knows it is a quixotic fight, but he is working to get the undisclosed exculpatory evidence in pre-emptive prosecution cases released to defense lawyers.

“That’s my one hope of getting these guys out of jail—I don’t see any other way,” he said.

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The corruption in the judiciary, Downs argues, is so pervasive that it is probably irreversible in the short run. Already dissidents such as peace activists, environmentalists and outspoken intellectuals have been treated as terrorists. Downs expects soon to see labor organizers and those in Occupy encampments treated as terrorists, especially if domestic dissent spreads. Yet despite his pessimism he has no intention of surrendering.

“I take comfort from organizations like the White Rose in Germany,” he said, referring to the anti-Nazi group that defied Hitler and saw most of its members arrested and executed. “They were doomed almost from the beginning. How long could you defy Hitler before you were rounded up and shot? It appeared to be a futile effort. And yet, after the war, when people went back and began to rebuild the German nation, they could look to the White Rose as an example of what German culture was really about. There were Germans who cared about peace, freedom and tolerance. I’m working now as much for the historical record as for those still in jail.”

“When I was 6,” Mehanna told the court Thursday at his sentencing, “I began putting together a massive collection of comic books. Batman implanted a concept in my mind, introduced me to a paradigm as to how the world is set up: that there are oppressors, there are the oppressed, and there are those who step up to defend the oppressed. This resonated with me so much that throughout the rest of my childhood I gravitated towards any book that reflected that paradigm—‘Uncle Tom’s Cabin,’ ‘The Autobiography of Malcolm X,’ and I even saw an ethical dimension to ‘The Catcher in the Rye.’ ”

“By the time I began high school and took a real history class, I was learning just how real that paradigm is in the world,” he went on. “I learned about the Native Americans and what befell them at the hands of European settlers. I learned about how the descendants of those European settlers were in turn oppressed under the tyranny of King George III. I read about Paul Revere, Tom Paine, and how Americans began an armed insurgency against British forces—an insurgency we now celebrate as the American Revolutionary War. As a kid I even went on school field trips just blocks away from where we sit now. I learned about Harriet Tubman, Nat Turner, John Brown, and the fight against slavery in this country. I learned about Emma Goldman, Eugene Debs and the struggles of the labor unions, working class and poor. I learned about Anne Frank, the Nazis, and how they persecuted minorities and imprisoned dissidents. I learned about Rosa Parks, Malcolm X, Martin Luther King and the civil rights struggle. I learned about Ho Chi Minh, and how the Vietnamese fought for decades to liberate themselves from one invader after another. I learned about Nelson Mandela and the fight against apartheid in South Africa. Everything I learned in those years confirmed what I was beginning to learn when I was 6: that throughout history, there has been a constant struggle between the oppressed and their oppressors. With each struggle I learned about, I found myself consistently siding with the oppressed, and consistently respecting those who stepped up to defend them—regardless of nationality, regardless of religion. And I never threw my class notes away. As I stand here speaking, they are in a neat pile in my bedroom closet at home.”

“In your eyes, I’m a terrorist, and it’s perfectly reasonable that I be standing here in an orange jumpsuit,” he told the court at the end of his statement. “But one day, America will change and people will recognize this day for what it is. They will look at how hundreds of thousands of Muslims were killed and maimed by the U.S. military in foreign countries, yet somehow I’m the one going to prison for ‘conspiring to kill and maim’ in those countries—because I support the mujahedeen defending those people. They will look back on how the government spent millions of dollars to imprison me as a ‘terrorist,’ yet if we were to somehow bring Abeer al-Janabi back to life in the moment she was being gang-raped by your soldiers, to put her on that witness stand and ask her who the ‘terrorists’ are, she sure wouldn’t be pointing at me.”


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americanme's avatar

By americanme, April 26, 2012 at 11:01 am Link to this comment

The name Dick Cheney is all you need to know.

Follow the money.

Report this

By heterochromatic, April 26, 2012 at 10:15 am Link to this comment

Maani—- I understand the points being raised….but again anyone who claims
that the plane was green, windowless and,  to the naked eye, obviously
identifiable as a military aircraft…......

AND says that this was a massive, top-level government conspiracy that fooled
the nation and the world…..and is still successfully operating after a decade and
a new administration…...


is left with the obvious and unresolvable problem of how in the name of reason
the conspirators could have made such a glaring error…. as to have the second
plane be an undisguised military craft when the attention of the entire city was
already focused on the towers as this allegedly OBVIOUS fake came into view.

it’s an absurdity that the “conspirators” could be that incompetent ....and
entirely successful…....


it seems that the utter lack of evidence and the astronomical odds against such
a claim somehow doesn’t register with the true believers ......


you’re free to raise questions with the official story, and to point out flaws in
that narrative, but you’re not free to insist on demanding that people accept
nonsense presented without any evidence at all and which conflicts with so
much presented evidence…....that’s when people are logically required to doubt
the sanity of the person making the demand…..

it was not a green airplane any more than it was a blue and yellow striped
pterodactyl

Report this

By Maani, April 26, 2012 at 9:48 am Link to this comment

hetero:

I think you miss the point.  No conspiracy is perfect: there will always be “errors,” some more obvious than others.  What matters is how effective and successful the action is OVERALL.  In the case of 9/11, it was extremely effective - despite the number of errors - because of the “shock and awe” created by the act.  Who, in the middle of the actual attack, was going to be able to “step back” and look at it critically and dispassionately?  Not many.  And once the attack was over, and almost 3,000 of our fellow citizens were dead, how many would be able to wrap their minds around the possibility that their own government was involved in that act?  Indeed, this is perhaps the single most critical “wall” that the 9/11 Truth movement comes up against: the inability of most people - ironically including many who do not like or trust our government, and even including many who have some knowledge of the concept of false flag attacks - to comprehend that possibility.

Assuming freedomrings (and others) is correct that at least one of the planes was not a commercial airliner, that is (sadly) all too easily glossed over or denied even in the face of evidence, just as the collapse of WTC7 - which is one of the truest “smoking guns” - is glossed over.

Peace.

Report this

By heterochromatic, April 26, 2012 at 7:21 am Link to this comment

a vast horrible conspiracy from the highest levels of the US government resulting
in thousands of deaths and enormous damage….....and they’re too lazy to paint an
airplane???????

takes a peculiar person to believe that.

Report this

By Maani, April 25, 2012 at 11:17 pm Link to this comment

freedomrings:

I don’t care that you don’t care what I say.  LOL.  That’s not the point.  There are any number of “checkmate” (i.e., smoking gun) facts re the truth of 9/11.  Your military plane is only one of them, and in my opinion not a particularly critical one only because, as I said, there are so many others that even if you were wrong, your overall point would still be valid.

You seem to argue against EVERYONE, including those who share your opinion.  That’s not exactly a way to “win friends and influence people” - including “winning” people to your “side” of the 9/11 debate.

BTW, in what way did you “almost die that day?”  If I missed that in an earlier post, I am sincerely interested.

Peace.

Report this

By freedomrings80, April 25, 2012 at 10:39 pm Link to this comment

@Maani

Well do you think I really care what you say? I
almost died that day. I guess you dont understand
that the point im trying to make. There is NO ISLAMIC
THREAT, there never were hijackers, there never plane
crashes at pentagon/pennsylvania, it’s ALL BULLSHIT.

So when people argue about explosives/no explosives,
demo/no demo its all MOOT when the plane was a
MILITARY PLANE.

Can you understand this simple fact is a checkmate
move?

Report this

By Maani, April 25, 2012 at 7:59 pm Link to this comment

freedomrings:

With due respect, you are harping on a truly insignificant detail.  Even if the plane was a commercial airliner, there is still such a plethora of evidence that the “official story” of 9/11 is as bogus as a 4-dollar bill that it almost makes no difference.

By harping so myopically on that one point, you come across as such a 9/11 Truth zealot that you give the movement a bad name, and only make yourself seem “narrow.”

Don’t get me wrong: I’m on your side re believing that 9/11 was a false flag attack in which individuals and agencies of the U.S. government were complicit: that it was not a LIHOP event (“let it happen on purpose”) but a MIHOP event (“made it happen on purpose”).  There is ample evidence of this without resorting to hyperbolic tete-a-tetes over a single detail.  Drop it already.

As an aside, in addition to all the evidence we already have - both direct and circumstantial - that 9/11 was a false flag attack, there are dozens of eyewitness accounts of “specifics” that hav yet to be told.  For example, I know of a woman (above reproach, no axe to grind, nothing against the U.S. gov’t, basic plain vanilla person) who worked at the WTC and, in the weeks prior to the “attack” saw - with her own eyes - men with machine guns guarding certain “empty” floors of the WTC, in which “strange, construction-like activities” were taking place.  She has been terrified of coming forward not so much out of fear of retribution as fear of ridicule (which is the #1 way conspiracists “neutralize” whistleblowers and others).

In the meantime, perhaps the single most important statement made about 9/11 was the one made by Thomas Kean and Lee Hamilton - co-chairs of the 9/11 Commission - in their book, Without Precedent, in which they state categorically that the Commission was “set up to fail” (by which they meant “not be able to come to a clear understanding and conclusion”).  The Commission was underfunded by Bush (who never wanted it in the first place), had to “sue” various agencies for documents, and was deprived of the testimony of numerous witnesses due to obstructionism.  And then there is the fact that Bush only agreed to be deposed if (i) Cheney was with him, (ii) it was done in secret, (iii) it was not recorded in any way.

And as I know you are aware, that is just the tippy-tippy-tip of the iceberg.

Peace.

Report this

By freedomrings80, April 25, 2012 at 3:08 pm Link to this comment

@Night-Gaunt

You say what’s the point of the below video, its
quite obvious to anyone that this is NOT A COMMERCIAL
AIRLINER, it is A DARK PLANE, compare it to any of
the objects in the video and you will see it does not
FIT the description of a commercial airliner. On top
of that 100’s of witnesses ID’d this plane as a NON
COMMERCIAL AIRLINER.


Here are 4 links to videos that show. Stop this video
below at 8-9 seconds and then again at 1:48

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnnMngw9A-o


Other New Yorkers who saw the same exact thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTAmz3DAyPU

Even more witnesses…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHHghW4Pg5k

FDNY who saw a military plane hit the WTC. Start it
at 6:10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=JJRd_54iWd0&feature=feedlik&t=370

Report this

By elisalouisa, April 25, 2012 at 2:07 pm Link to this comment

Michael 4/24 at 4:07 pm

“The accusation of “Fascism” demands some sort of action against the ‘fascists’, with penalties ranging from limitation of their political activity including disenfranchisement, all the way to incarceration.”

In that one sentence Michael you have proved Chris Hedges’ contention that the religious Right is fascist and indeed dangerous.

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americanme's avatar

By americanme, April 25, 2012 at 12:57 pm Link to this comment

Sure, Night-Gaunt:  I’ll start with the name at the top of the 9/11 operation:

Dick Cheney.

The ONLY person who had the three requisites for this crime:

MOTI(VE
MEANS
OPPORTUNITY.

All big crimes are inside jobs.

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Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, April 25, 2012 at 12:45 pm Link to this comment

Well americanme aren’t you appropriately vague here on all counts. No naming names or any specifics just a general call to calamity by you for us. Troll much? How about coming back an laying it all down an name names so we know what you are referring to exactly. Right now you are playing a mirror giving us nothing but our own imaginations. That will not suffice here.

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americanme's avatar

By americanme, April 25, 2012 at 12:09 pm Link to this comment

What’s thsi troll beat of yup yup yup?

Your US government employers ask you to “mix it up a little”, huh?

Anyone who believes the rubbish that most of you believe deserves anything and everything that your REAL ENEMY (not only your skiniflint employer) has in store for you.

Report this

By elisalouisa, April 24, 2012 at 8:17 pm Link to this comment

I must agree Night-Gaunt I don’t see what the big deal is either. Some posters are quite new here just check their join date, almost a team effort.

By heterochromatic April 24 at 11:37 am

“we’ve quite a few EDPs in New York, but somehow I suspect that you’re not from here and weren’t anywhere near the WTC that day.

yup,


elisa: yup, yup, yup

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Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, April 24, 2012 at 6:35 pm Link to this comment

You do know that with such poor quality distortions appear an can be easily mistaken. And those images are no more than blurs. As was being said at the end of the tape the area is in the flight path of an air port. So of course there would be other craft in the sky. I don’t understand the big deal made about this.

It would be interesting to see the RADAR images of the area during that time in all the places. An you know they exist. Find them an synchronize.

Also I was puzzled when they said that the usual hair trigger alert with armed jets within the ring of the national capital and the Pentagon were down. Even during a war game they still needed to be operating.

Report this

By freedomrings80, April 24, 2012 at 6:15 pm Link to this comment

@Night-Gaunt

I never said who was on the plane, all i said is that
the FBI head ROBERT MUELLER stated they used faked
names, if that’s the case how do they know what their
real names were. How did they differentiate between
hijacker and passenger? Were there no arab/muslim
passengers on any of these planes?

I dont recall the bomb story but what I do recall is
that all 4 planes were hijacked within hours
successfuly. 3/4 hit their targets. two of the
targets, pentagon/pennsylvania have ZERO sign of a
commercial plane.

All you have to do is look at this video and digest
what you see, not what you want to see.

This plane is not a commercial airliner, EVERY ANGLE
that i have seen(firsthand and videos) shows NO
COMMERCIAL AIRLINER.

Stop this
video below at 8-9 seconds and then again at 1:48

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnnMngw9A-o

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, April 24, 2012 at 6:09 pm Link to this comment

Tell me why I can’t but you can say who was on board?

Freedomrings80, the hijackers weren’t passengers but taken the identities of those who are still alive an aren’t even in country any more. They faked their way onto the plane. Of course you would find some alive since the people whose names were taken weren’t they hijackers. I saw some of it in late 2001-2002.

Didn’t they say that they also had a bomb too not just the box cutters? That would stop most people. I do agree that it happened on the day that a nation wide war game was going on concerning plane hijacking. Also I was puzzled that they could disable their tracking beacon. I expected it to be unreachable on the plane.

Not every Christian in the USA is a fascist but many a crypto-fascist in the USA in the highest corridors of power act like a Fascist an call themselves Christian. (Crusader/Inquisition kind) I for one can tell the difference by what they do in relation to what they say. If they fit the profile an support the unjust laws that weaken our Bill of Rights an our gov’t gets even more authoritarian (violating any or all of the Bill of Rights) then they deserve that connotation an not before.

So Ozark Michael, how do you like the most recent changes in a long line of changes starting with the DHS an moving on regardless of a Conservative Democrat or Conservative Republican in office? Recently the courts decided that any of us can be stripped searched an cavity searched for any reason they deem. From children to old people they can arbitrarily pull us over or invade our domiciles an strip us down an probe us. Does that bother you? That isn’t fascist to you? Do you know who is really running the gov’t regardless of party affiliation? It didn’t happen over a single year but if it had people of all parties would be up-in-arms. But since it took 11 years most people are immured to it.

I dare say you won’t acknowledge it till they are marching down the street in full regalia. By then it will be way too late. (Ever wonder why it was recently made very difficult to get a passport last year?)

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OzarkMichael's avatar

By OzarkMichael, April 24, 2012 at 5:07 pm Link to this comment

I deliberately used the words,“Liberal CICADA” and “Leftie CICADA” to see your reaction when they are purposely connected to a well conservative Chief Justice like John Roberts. You have been calling all posters CICADAS,I repeat all posters,who have disagreed with your way of thinkings and your thoughts on almost all issues. So I tried to treat you with your own medicines. You avoided touching the four words.You either were too smart to realize what’s coming or you were taken by a complete surprise and did not know how to handle it. Either way you lose!

Sodium-Na, yes I did notice. You made a fair and clever turn on my use of the word “cicada”. Point taken. I lost that round.

In defense of my use of the word “cicada”, I use it when certain people buzz their approval of Truthdig articles without thinking about it. Also when people take too much assurance in their agreement with other Truthdiggers.

I mostly use the word “cicada” for people who throw the accusation of “fascism” around. It isnt very kind of me, but as you say, its a bit of their own type of medicine right back at them. It has that element of trying to cure the other person.

Now relax a moment and please consider this: What is worse… calling someone a ‘cicada’ or calling someone a ‘fascist’?

I want you to think about this with me.

What happens when i call you and a dozen people on Truthdig a “cicada”? Does it tie you to some awful sin? Does it call for you to be punished? Jailtime?No. When I call you “cicada” there is no moral or legal consequence that you will have to face. Why? Because “cicada” has the same cartooning and lampooning quality of calling a lazy person a “slug”. There is no political or existential consequence at all, except you have to endure my name calling. and its only me calling you that. No one else.

What happens when Chris Hedges calls millions of us “fascist”? The accusation of “fascism” ties us to the awful Nazi sin from the past. It calls for us to be punished. When you call us “fascist” there will be moral and legal consequences for us to face if enough people agree with you.

Why? Because “fascism” is not cartooning and lampooning. It is the utmost seriousness and the worst political accusation that you can make against someone. If enough people buy into the accusation there will be punishments.

The accusation of “Fascism” demands some sort of action against the ‘fascists’, with penalties ranging from limitation of their political activity including disenfranchisement, all the way to incarceration.

There is no defense against being called a fascist. I tried defense for about 20 years and it actually makes things worse.  The best I can do is hurl little insults in front of the steamroller to slow it down. Insults like “cicada”. My insults and my reasoned arguments bounce off the “fascism” accusation steamroller and the best I can do it slow it down a little, because it keeps moving forward. 

So I am aware that in our little war of words I am losing. I am losing every round.

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By freedomrings80, April 24, 2012 at 4:58 pm Link to this comment

@heterochromatic

Ah my friend but I was there and I will never forget
what i saw. I did not see the first plane but as i
stood there looking up I saw this GREEN PLANE come
crashing into the building.

Dodging the main point again CHIMP!

What color is the plane in this video?

Stop this video 8-9 seconds and then again
1:48.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnnMngw9A-o

Report this

By heterochromatic, April 24, 2012 at 4:55 pm Link to this comment

you getting a little excited, ain’t ya

calling people who’re laughing at your nonsense traitors is not the mark of mental
health, chico.
we’ve quite a few EDPs in New York, but somehow I suspect that you’re not from
here and weren’t anywhere near the WTC that day.

Report this

By freedomrings80, April 24, 2012 at 4:37 pm Link to this comment

@heterochromatic

What a diss-info chimp. You see how you can’t prove
that a commercial airliner?

What COLOR IS THIS PLANE in the VIDEO BELOW? Let’s
see how much of traitor you are.

Stop this video 8-9 seconds and then again
1:48.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnnMngw9A-o


Come on TRAITOR!

Report this

By heterochromatic, April 24, 2012 at 4:29 pm Link to this comment

here’s one that does work and is unassailable proof.


UFO at the Twin Towers on 9-11

http://youtu.be/CZnYHTN8Qmg


http://youtu.be/ngvt9tPROzc

Report this

By heterochromatic, April 24, 2012 at 4:22 pm Link to this comment

you second and third links worked, chico, the vids aren’t available

Report this

By freedomrings80, April 24, 2012 at 4:10 pm Link to this comment

Here’s the video of witnesses on the very day of 911
who described the second plane as A MILITARY PLANE!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTAmz3DAyPU

Report this

By freedomrings80, April 24, 2012 at 4:08 pm Link to this comment

@heterochromatic

What a chimp, the white plane title has nothing to do
with the second plane’s impact. The title has to do
with the a white plane in the upper right corner
flying in the sky.

Did you stop this video 8-9 seconds and then again
1:48?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnnMngw9A-o

You have to paste the ENTIRE URL into the browser. I
shortened it for your chimp pleasure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJRd_54iWd0&t=370

Report this

By heterochromatic, April 24, 2012 at 4:03 pm Link to this comment

nope.. I saw it and I spoke to some of the people from the site that night….and
later spoke to some FDNY investigators…..


and your videos are unavailable except for your first one which shows what it calls
a ‘white plane”


enjoy yourself.

Report this

By freedomrings80, April 24, 2012 at 3:43 pm Link to this comment

@heterochromatic

You didnt have a view, ur lying out of ur arse!

Oh my friend it was green, you can see clearly in
EVERY VIDEO of the second planes impact.

I saw it smack into the second tower and it was a
DARK GREEN PLANE.

If you can send me ONE LINK of a video that shows its
a commercial airliner, with windows, I will say you
are right and believe the fairy tale of 911.


Here are three links to videos that show. Stop this
video below at 8-9 seconds and then again at 1:48

Dark Green, Windowless plane video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnnMngw9A-o


Other New Yorkers who saw the same exact thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVH5jm06pJY


FDNY who saw a military plane hit the WTC. Start it
at 6:10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=JJRd_54iWd0&feature=feedlik&t=370

Report this

By heterochromatic, April 24, 2012 at 3:39 pm Link to this comment

you’re full of shit… the plane wasn’t green.  I had a good view of the second one

Report this

By Maani, April 24, 2012 at 3:32 pm Link to this comment

As an aside (and at the risk of adding fuel to EVERYONE’s fire…LOL), it was proven that the FBI were behind the first WTC bombing in 1993.  Even the venerable New York Times reported on this on its front page a few days after the bombing.

And it is quite possible that the 1993 bombing was a “test run” for 9/11: i.e., testing the underground support structure of the building to find out whether it could be brought down that way.  Don’t forget that, just prior to the “attack,” there was a massive explosion in the basement of the north tower, and that there were explosions at the base of the south tower as well.

Report this

By freedomrings80, April 24, 2012 at 3:08 pm Link to this comment

@Night-Gaunt

Oh my friend how do you know who was involved?

According to Robert Mueller the “hijackers” used fake
ID’s,  “no legal proof to prove the identities of the
suicidal hijackers.” and that ” the identity of
several of the suicide hijackers is in doubt.”

Also the bbc did a report on how many of the
hijackers were still alive.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1559151.stm

What about video surveillence? Despite every airport
having video surviellence there is no video of
hijackers boarding planes?

The one of mohammed atta is from his EARLIER flight
and NOT the hijacked on.

The hijackers names are NOT ON ANY PASSENGER
MANIFEST. So how did these hijackers board the
planes?

How is it that hijackers can take control over a
plane with box cutters? Not one plane, not two, not
three but FOUR successful hijackings with box
cutters.

I was born and raised in nyc. I survived the 911
attacks and saw the second plane hit the WTC.

It was a military plane. If you analyze any video
showing the second impact you can clearly see, a
GREEN, WINDOWLESS plane.

Here are three links to videos that show. Stop this
video below at 8-9 seconds and then again at 1:48

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnnMngw9A-o


Other New Yorkers who saw the same exact thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVH5jm06pJY


FDNY who saw a military plane hit the WTC. Start it
at 6:10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=JJRd_54iWd0&feature=feedlik&t=370

Report this
americanme's avatar

By americanme, April 24, 2012 at 2:04 pm Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt:

Who are YOU to say who was involved in 9/11?

You are only regurgitating the koolaid you drank so eagerly from your enemy, the US government.

And, let me tell you, after almost 11 years, that koolaid really stinks.

The first plane out of there contained a group of Mossad agents.  Now, please do stick your fingers in your ears and toss up some more of that nasty pink vomit.

And don’t come here with your menacing “you are approaching anti-Judaism” horseshit. That’s just another form of bullying.

So far as I am concerned, the zionists are today’s nazis—or worse.And they deserve to sit in the hot seat in The Hague—which is what Ariel Sharon wriggled out of doing by having the witnesses killed and then hopping into a coma.

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By Night-Gaunt, April 24, 2012 at 1:54 pm Link to this comment

Attempt to hit someone is “Assault.” If you connect it is also “Battery.” Heterochromatic

Freedomrings80 even if Mossad was in the area doesn’t make them guilty of causing the planes to crash into the buildings doesn’t it? Also those involved were mainly from Pakistan an were funded by Saudi Arabia. No Iraq an no Israel. So you are going down the wrong path. In fact you are approaching anti-Judaism (the Palestinians are Semitic too) an that is the wrong road to be on.

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By americanme, April 24, 2012 at 1:40 pm Link to this comment

????

Get back to me when you have evidence.

I am not interested in your puerile masturbation fantasies.

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By heterochromatic, April 24, 2012 at 1:39 pm Link to this comment

kangaroos?  the goats too tired/indifferent?

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By americanme, April 24, 2012 at 1:28 pm Link to this comment

Heterochromatic troll:

Actually, YOU are the one for whom it is obligatory to provide evidence.  And you are incapable of doing so.

Nothing has been proven in any court.  It’s just the Ole Kangeroo Bounce.

It is knowledge, however, in the common domain that the CIA does the dirty deeds.  That’s what they are paid to do! 

If someone else muscled in on their territory he or she would be toast in a flash

Your frivolous venal racial profiling is just that—frivolously venal.

Put up or shut up, I say.

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By heterochromatic, April 24, 2012 at 12:37 pm Link to this comment

yup, anyone who presents no evidence and flatly declares that it’s all CIA
invention and subversion is an exemplar of reasoned analysis and gainsaying
that nonsense is deplorable.


yup.


yup


yup


it’s incumbent on anyone deriding the nonsense to prove again that which was
been proven in court ..... because, someone person objects.

yup


yup


yup

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By americanme, April 24, 2012 at 12:02 pm Link to this comment

Ah, the troll funded by the false flagger US government agencies jumped right on that.

He had to immediately declare that the poster is confused or crazy or a traitor to the country to stop other folks from taking the poster seriously and actually doing some analysis.

Of course he presents NO evidence that any of the incidents in question were actually planned and executed by Muslim terrorists.

All he does is take potshots at the messengers of reasoned analysis and common sense.

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By heterochromatic, April 24, 2012 at 11:46 am Link to this comment

when someone gets to the point where he believes that 17 of 20 terrorist incidents
in the US were staged by the CIA he probably IS pretty agitated already…. and
would likely be upset by anyone strongly asserting that the believe is the product
of confusion.

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By americanme, April 24, 2012 at 11:45 am Link to this comment

Lost freedom—well, yes.  The US goevrnment is the enemy of its people—except for a few very rich folks who make obscene amounts of money manufacturing and selling arms around the planet and the big oil folks.

The connection is obvious:  use arms to invade for petroleum.

The third big moneymaker is the sale of illegal drugs—which is why there is such resistance on the part of the US government to legalization—after all, that same government invaded Afghanistan and remains there to restart the flow of heroin and maintain it.

It’s convenient to have the folks who come from the regions where the folks the US government represents (and not one of those folks is you, nor anyone else posting in internet on ANY site) have the greatest intersts be declared terrorists so that the Us voters see them as enemies.

To that end the CIA and other agencies frequently plan and execute false flag incidents.  9/11 was one of those—and it allowed the US government to invade Afghanistan and then Iraq in the name of the interests of arms folks, petroleum folks and illegal drugs folks (especially the big inefficient US baks, who between bailouts stay afloat laundering drug money).

Currently it is working in tandem with Israel to attack Iran, and trying to replicate the sodomization of Libya in Syria.

So, it MUST keep Guantanamo going at all costs—a completely bogus and obscene operation—as well as plant periodic false flag attacks pinned on Muslims in the US.

It MUST keep US folks fearful—that way you are more willing to give up your basic rights and bow down to the Us goernment and to the interests of those whom it really represents.

Andf so folks do not become cynically suspicious, it MUST put a Muslim on trial and CONVICT him with regularity to maintain the illusion that Muslims are the Bogey Man just poised to strike all of you in your beds at night.

Reagan used Gadafi as his Bogey Man—every time he wanted to rip off money from Us citizens he claimed Gadafi and his henchmen were just over the border in Canada, ready to mount an invasiuon from West Vancounver.

And Us folks bought that completely irrational scenario—opening the door for more and more bad jokes at their expense.

As for maintaining the spark of free speech—there is no free speech in the US.  You try marching out into Main Street and spouting off against the government—see how long you stay away from jail or fatal “accidents”.

The trolls post impunely here because they support and promote the policies of the US government and Israel.

Period.

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By Cliff Carson, April 24, 2012 at 11:16 am Link to this comment

americanme, April 24 at 8:41 am

I certainly agree with you americanme.  I think that given that the country is divided on this issue I would like to hear coherent ideas from those who differ from my mindset of a railroad job and its future effects on freedom of speech.

But given freedom of speech to its fullest even that creep has the right to voice his insane prattle.  That is why I applied the medicine of just ignoring him and others like him, and there are several on Truthdig.

I often read related articles and its comments on Linked sources to see what they think (especially when they think differently than me).

I especially was interested in the Juror who approached the Judge after she had voted guilty to see if she could get the judge to let him off on time already spent before the trial (two years in solitary)and on evidence given by the Somaili pirate prisoner who testified for those prosecuters hoping to get his 10
year guilty of Piracy sentence reduced.

She said that she has great trouble sleeping at night because of her vote.  But, she says, he broke the law and is therefore guilty.  She wasn’t able or didn’t explain just what law it was that he broke.

One commenter on one of the related articles stated that “he was guilty of conspiracy”, but I have a hard time seeing that when the articles I read almost all state that the court never attempted to prove conspiracy, choosing instead to speak of the dangers of Al-Qaeda and other “Terrorists” invoking the name Osama Bin Laden and 9/11 excessively without ever trying to tie Tarek to either with any evidence of a conspiracy.

Another video commentary noted that there had been 20 “Terrorist” incidences in the U S since 9/11, but 17 of those 20 were planned by the CIA, funded by the CIA, the targets chosen by the CIA, and weapons or explosives furnished by the CIA, and then the CIA would “discover” the Terror plots and publicize how they had saved America from the “Terrorist Attack”, then they would put on a show trial charging the marks they had induced into becoming participants, always Muslims.

Long Story short-what was it that those CIA stings saved America from and what was the cost to the American citizen. 

Can we say lost freedoms?  If not why not?

People who would be interested in looking at these issues objectively might be able to come to some resolution about how our Government is acting as opposed to what they are saying.

This is what Truthdig is really all about an exchange forum for ideas.  Unfortunately we have to suffer the - agitators ( I just would rather not use the F word).

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By americanme, April 24, 2012 at 9:41 am Link to this comment

A lot of time that could have been devoted to useful discussion was wasted on this thread—primarily due to the behavior of the troll heterochromatic, who insists on calling evryone who disagrees with his peculiar world view dirty names and casting doubt on their sexual preferences.

The same devious troll wasted everyone’s time, as well, with his twisted portrayal of Director of Studies as meaning the same thing as Director of the US Army War College (which according to his link, is actually a private college operated by Bush I’s Carlyle Group).

In any educational institution (and I doubt that this even qualifies), the Director of Studies in the person who coorindates the academic side—as opposed to the Director of Operations who coordinates the operational side—and both are lower on the organization chart that the Director/President or Rector.

This deliberate obfuscation on the part of Heterochromatric is just one of many behaviors which long ago made him clearly identifiable as a troll.

No meaningful interchange can take place on sites like this which are controlled by trolls.

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By Cliff Carson, April 24, 2012 at 8:02 am Link to this comment

Sodium-Na, April 24 at 5:34 am

Thank you again Sodium-Na,  In your earlier response your point was that Tarek Mehanna has won the the moral and ethical position of the farcical trial.

What history will record is that an American Citizen of high principles eloquently defended his position against the Kangaroo’s who wanted to put a conviction on anybody that illuminated the hypocrisy of American Empire.

Mehanna is guilty of nothing other than exposing the rottenness of the War Mongers, The Corporatist, those that profit from Blood Profiteering, those that now control our Government.

When is the last time that our Government has actually passed legislation that favors the “little” people, or when is the last time that our Foreign Policy has been molded to favor anyone other than the International Financial Cabal and their partners in immoral activity?

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By Sodium-Na, April 24, 2012 at 6:34 am Link to this comment

A note for OzarkMichael:

Ozark,

Good Morning.

I have already responded to your last post of April 23 at 3:34 pm. In order to read it,please roll upwards this thread about 16 different posts to find my response:

By Sodium-Na,April 23 at 7:45 am.

Happy reading.

Cheers….

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By freedomrings80, April 24, 2012 at 5:42 am Link to this comment

@Maani

Right from the PEWForum Report…

Page 137.
“The size of the Muslim population in the U.S. has
been a subject of considerable debate…see Chapter 1
of the Pew Research Center report.”

http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-
americans.pdf
Page 13

“An ambitious 2001 survey led by researchers from
Hartford Institute for Religious Research
provided a basis for the frequently cited estimate of
6-7 million Muslim adults and children.”


So chimp, even your own report acknowledges the
others numbers, the pewforums method of calculation
is flawed. There are quite a few muslim converts who
don’t LEGALLY change their name, these muslims
converts are born here. Some numbers put the
percentage of muslim converts in america as 25%.

Again more importantly, you keep dodging my main
point, there is NO ISLAMIC threat.

If there was you would see it on the streets of
America.

Every day thousands of crimes and ZERO ISLAMIC
TERRORISM within our borders.

How can that be?

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By Maani, April 23, 2012 at 11:11 pm Link to this comment

freedom:

Hmmm…I was unaware that the Pew Center, the U.S. Census, the NYC government and the CIA were all part of the “pro-Israeli lobby.”

Oh, and there are 1.3-1.75 billion Muslims in the world, not 2.1 billion.  You seem to like regurgitating the highest estimate from questionable sources.  And yes, Muslims themselves - particularly mosques - are perhaps the most UNreliable source possible, since they have a vested interest in exaggerating the number of adherents to Islam.

You really are gullible, aren’t you?

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By heterochromatic, April 23, 2012 at 10:35 pm Link to this comment

nice try to attempt to sneak in the correction and call him Director of Studies for
the Waer College——-but that’s again wrong….he WAS NOT Director the the
college….try again, bonabo -boy.

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By freedomrings80, April 23, 2012 at 10:26 pm Link to this comment

Israel is KNOWN for its FALSE FLAG OPERATIONS. It
murdered 34 of our own MILITARY MEN in the 1960’s
when it attacked the USS LIBERTY!

The story was covered up by the Whitehouse because of
the Israeli lobby and influence on our government.

Did Israel commit 911?

YOU BET, they are the only ones to gain and the only
ones who can execute and COVER UP THEIR TRACKS.

The Israelis had dozens of them in the Bush
Administration. Here’s a short list.

Richard Perle,
Paul Wolfawitz
Douglas Feith
Scooter Liby
Michael Chertoff - Head of Homeland Security
Philip Zekelow - Head of 911 commission

When will you WAKE UP?

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By freedomrings80, April 23, 2012 at 10:25 pm Link to this comment

I was born and raised in nyc. I survived the 911
attacks and saw the second plane hit the WTC.

It was a military plane. If you analyze any video
showing the second impact you can clearly see, a
GREEN, WINDOWLESS plane.

Here are three links to videos that show. Stop this
video below at 8-9 seconds and then again at 1:48

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnnMngw9A-o


Other New Yorkers who saw the same exact thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVH5jm06pJY


FDNY who saw a military plane hit the WTC. Start it
at 6:10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=JJRd_54iWd0&feature=feedlik&t=370

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By freedomrings80, April 23, 2012 at 10:24 pm Link to this comment

@heterochromatic

Do you know what “was” is? Does that imply that he’s
still there?

You can pretend all you want and make up lies as much
as possible but Alan Sabrosky was the DIRECTOR of
studies at the army war college.

Cover up for Israel traitor!

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By heterochromatic, April 23, 2012 at 10:00 pm Link to this comment

Sabrosky was Queen of the Fucking Universe if you say so…..everybody else can
go to the Army College website

http://www.carlisle.army.mil/

where you’ll learn that not only wasn’t Sabrosky the director of the thing, but that
it’s headed by a Commandant and there is no Director…


you might find Sabrosky as a former adjunct lecturer.

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By freedomrings80, April 23, 2012 at 9:46 pm Link to this comment

@heterochromatic

What a chimp! Do you know that assault is the THREAT
of injuring while BATTERY is the actual physical
attack.

So there you have it CHIMP, in the court of law an
ATTEMPT is known as ASSAULT and an actual ATTACK is
known as battery.

Assault and Battery are NOT THE SAME therefore
ATTEMPTED ATTACK and ATTACK are NOT THE SAME CHIMP!

In regards to Alan Sabrosky, yes he was the director
of studies at the army war college, must be true what
he’s saying, u will always try to cover up for
Israel.

I believe Israel was directly behind or involved in
911 attacks after watching Ehud Barak PM of Israel
only within one hour call after 911 attacks call out
bin laden, afghanistan, iraq, iran in a BBC
interview.

With psychic ability Ehud Barak knew who was
allegedly behind 911, where he was hiding and all
within one hour of the 911 attacks.

Ehud Barak knew more than our entire half a trillion
dollar a year military.

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By heterochromatic, April 23, 2012 at 9:38 pm Link to this comment

you remain a n ignorant ass…........and you know no law…..... get a legal dictionary
and look up the definition of assault, goatboy jr..


and while you’re looking things up you might as well find out that you’re again full
of shit and repeating internet bullshit.

Sabrosky was never director of the Arrny war College….......finish high school and
bye bye

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By freedomrings80, April 23, 2012 at 9:32 pm Link to this comment

@heterochromatic

REading comprehension 101, in the court of LAW they are
not chimp.

More over, you stay on the same boring topic, zero
substance fake american, lover of israel. I can tell.

Israel might have been involved in the 911 attacks
according to Dr. Sabrosky, former director of the army
war college.

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By heterochromatic, April 23, 2012 at 9:26 pm Link to this comment

try logic 101 attempted attacks are a form of attacks…....dumber than a bitchy
bigoted alleged indian exiled as a mental defective.

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By freedomrings80, April 23, 2012 at 9:26 pm Link to this comment

@heterochromatic

Jesus I have a better debate with a stuffed dog. Do you
have anything of substance to say?

There 2.1 billion muslims in the world according to the
lastest census.

Are you saying that Im lying chimp?

Mr. neocon, who do you work for, jdl/aipac?

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By heterochromatic, April 23, 2012 at 9:20 pm Link to this comment

and you’ll probably insist that they all be counted as another 3 trillion Muslims.

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By freedomrings80, April 23, 2012 at 9:20 pm Link to this comment

@heterochromatic

What a chimp, in the court of law ITS NOT THE SAME
THING. Did you ever go to school?

Attempted attacks and attacks ARE NOT THE SAME.

But you dodge my major point over and over.

There is NO MUSLIM terrorist threat, if there was you
would see it on the streets of America.

The only instances you have are 2 attempted attacks
in 11 years. Everyday thousands of crimes and zero
muslim terrorism.

How could that be chimp?

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By heterochromatic, April 23, 2012 at 9:20 pm Link to this comment

and stay out of Mexico, because you’ll be unable to tear yourself away from the
goats.

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By heterochromatic, April 23, 2012 at 9:17 pm Link to this comment

if you swing and miss it’s a battery, sparky…...and it’s still an attack, just a failed
one.

so many things you’ll learn if you finish high school.

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By freedomrings80, April 23, 2012 at 9:03 pm Link to this comment

@Maani

Wrong and wrong, if i swing at you and miss it’s an
ATTEMPTED attack. In the court of law they are not
the same. The car bomb WAS NOT A BOMB, it would have
never BLEW UP.

In terms of #‘s u r wrong again. The pro-israeli
lobby wants to make believe that there are 2.5
muslims but how do you accurately count it?

A study done my mosques who counted the number of
visiting muslims put the count at 7-8 million
muslims.

Muslimpopulation com puts the number at almost 7
million.

So even if you count the attempted attacks as attacks
thats 2 in 11 years. Thats 2 attacks by 2 individuals
out of 2.1 BILLION according to the latest muslim
world count.

There is no muslim terrorist threat, proof is in the
numbers not neocon opinions.

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By Sodium-Na, April 23, 2012 at 8:54 pm Link to this comment

By OzarkMichael on U.S.Chief Justice’speach on Independent Speech:

Quote
=======

“Pure political speech” and “independent speech” does not cover lying to the the FBI. Tarek Mehanna is guilty.”

Ozark,

What you said above is AMAZING and AMUSING:

AMAZING:
========

~My last post has not mentioned one single word whether or not Tarek Mehanna is guilty. Please read it again. My intent has been to show what the highest authority in the land,the Chief Justice of the United States says about independent speech and I quote again,here,the essence of his speech for emphasis,“EVEN IF THE GOVERMENT WERE TO SHOW THAT SUCH BENEFITS FORIEGN TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS.”

~By claiming what the Chief Justice has stated about independent speech is “a pure political speech”,you OzarkMichael,have just made a liar out of Chief Justic John G.Roberts Jr.Chief Justices are supposed to say what they mean and mean what they say.Period.Otherwise,they should not be Justices,let alone Chief Justices.

~If what you say that Tarek Mehanna was found guilty because he lied to the FBI,I wonder what was your position and the rest of the people who believed of what you believed of the piles upon piles of lying from the Bay of Tonken to Me Ly Massacre to Watergate to Iran-Kuntra scandals to the piles of lies that resulted in the total destruction of Iraq as a functioning human society.How about bringing all those liars to face justic,even many of them are dead by now-just bringing them to face justice in absentia.You keep talking about double standard,how about looking in the mirror and challenge your own double standard,Ozark. I know that you are honest when it comes to your religious belief.I respect that.How about a bit of honesty on the list of lies outlined in the foregoing?

~A verdict of 17.5 years in preson for lying to the FBI. Come on,Ozark,you have much more common sense than that!     

~I have refrained,sofar,from saying that Tarek Mehanna is “not guilty” and have kept my mind openned for persuasion either way and you,Ozark,instead of havig just common courtesy,not for me personally but for the positive position I have insisted on taking,you come with such haste and throw on my face what you have been throwing your bias at others who believe that Tarek has been framed by the government because he refused to be a government informer.The government,of course,denies that.You have chosen,of course,to believe the government for your own reasons,well known to me for five years and I had spelled them to you several times in the past.Get rid of your obsessions,Ozark,to truly become free.

AMUSING:
=========
I deliberately used the words,“Liberal CICADA” and “Leftie CICADA” to see your reaction when they are purposely connected to a well conservative Chief Justice like John Roberts. You have been calling all posters CICADAS,I repeat all posters,who have disagreed with your way of thinkings and your thoughts on almost all issues. So I tried to treat you with your own medicines. You avoided touching the four words.You either were too smart to realize what’s coming or you were taken by a complete surprise and did not know how to handle it.Either way you lose!If you have dared of saying Chief Justice John Roberts is a Conservative CICADA,you would have won,and would have proven that you have,at least,practiced what you have preached about double standard. The fact that you have failed to do so and concentrated in repeating your bias: guilty,all over again has made you no better than the rest of us whom you have repeatedly accused of double standard.   

Final words:I have studied Tarek Mehanna’s speech to the court,trying to detect a clue by weighing every word,every sentence and every paragraph. Only your God knows how many hours I spent doing just that.I believe I have reached a conclusion about Mehanna’s eagerness to make that speech to the court and eventually to the world.Hint:he won.

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By Maani, April 23, 2012 at 6:25 pm Link to this comment

freedomrings:

Yes, it was a real bomb; it was just a badly constructed bomb.  So it WAS an attack.  You seem to have a justification to rationalize away any example put before you.  But I am not buying it.

As for the Muslim populaton of NYC, all your comments may or may not be correct, but they do not address the specific point I made (and I am well aware of the difference between “Muslim” and “arab”): the MUSLIM (NOT Arab) population of NYC - according to Pew, the U.S. Census, NYC itself and even the CIA’s stats - is ~500,000, with ~700,000 in NYS, and ~2.5 million nationwide.

Peace.

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By freedomrings80, April 23, 2012 at 5:00 pm Link to this comment

So tarek is guilty for expressing an opinion? We have politicians who have called our
president hitler who are not imprisoned who have politicians who have lied which led to an
invasion of Iraq. These same lies led to the death of 5k soldiers. We have politicians who
gave exclusive contracts to companies who then made billions.

All these politicians are walking around with blood on their hands and not one charge has
been placed against them.

The conviction of tarek is just silence any dissenting opinions on the war on terror(itory)
and silence any voice that supports opposition to our imperial plans.

This is like the Syria. Gov arresting anyone supporting the rebels of Syria.

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By OzarkMichael, April 23, 2012 at 4:34 pm Link to this comment

Sodium-Na, thank you for bringing us back to a sane discussion of the matter at hand.From the NYT article:

Much of Mr. Mehanna’s speech on Web sites and in IM chats was brutal, disgusting and unambiguously supportive of Islamic insurgencies in Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia.

But that isnt what he was on trial for.

Justice Roberts reaffirmed that “under the material-support statute, plaintiffs may say anything they wish on any topic” and pointed out that “Congress has not sought to suppress ideas or opinions in the form of ‘pure political speech.’ ” Justice Roberts emphasized that he wanted to “in no way suggest that a regulation of independent speech would pass constitutional muster, even if the Government were to show that such speech benefits foreign terrorist organizations.”

“Pure political speech” and “independent speech” doesnt quite cover lying to the FBI. Tarek Mehanna is guilty.

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By freedomrings80, April 23, 2012 at 3:09 pm Link to this comment

@heterochromatic

You just proved my point over and over, your a zero
science, 100% neo-con sci-fi chimp.

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By heterochromatic, April 23, 2012 at 3:07 pm Link to this comment

yup, I’m just a dumb chimp….. great…. now go finish your homework and get
through high school.


bye-bye.

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By freedomrings80, April 23, 2012 at 2:52 pm Link to this comment

@heterochromatic

You have no put up one ounce of analysis chimp. Not
one ounce of original thought, not one ounce of
science.

Just neo-con fiction.

War on terror(itory) is a scam, 911 is a scam.

Response to 19 hijackers with BOX CUTTERS, 5 wars, 11
years of invasions, millions refugees, millions dead
and most importantly trillions for corporations.

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By heterochromatic, April 23, 2012 at 2:49 pm Link to this comment

you “know” quite a lot and it’s all not related to the real world, child….. keep
touching yourself and going ha-ha….it makes for dazzling repartee and really fills
the page with trenchant analysis.

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By freedomrings80, April 23, 2012 at 2:44 pm Link to this comment

@heterochromatic

hahaha, is that what you are afraid of? did i touch a
nerve. I know you work for AIPAC/JDL. You are a
traitor to america, to the world. You are the queens
of the false flag terror. All for your Israel right?

Only pro-israel would approve of the way muslims are
treated. Only a pro-israel would hate for muslims to
have some political influence in america.

Right neo-con?

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By heterochromatic, April 23, 2012 at 2:41 pm Link to this comment

——1.5 billion muslims in the world buddy, America is no
longer a judeo-christian nation, its a christian-
muslim nation.———


so inane and pointlessly ignorant

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By freedomrings80, April 23, 2012 at 2:32 pm Link to this comment

@Maani

Times square plot WAS NOT A REAL BOMB, it would never
have been went off. So it was NOT AN ATTACK.

I didnt say ATTEMPTED attacks, I said ATTACKS, there
has not been one muslim terrorist attack since 911.

I dont know what numbers you r reading but there’s a
difference between the ARAB and Muslim population.

The arabs are a minority in the muslim world, you
have asians/africans/russians and converts.

Islam is the fastest growing religion in America.

1.5 billion muslims in the world buddy, America is no
longer a judeo-christian nation, its a christian-
muslim nation.

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By freedomrings80, April 23, 2012 at 2:19 pm Link to this comment

@OzarkMichael

You see chimp, i survived the 911 attacks. I am born
and raised in nyc. I actually saw the second plane
hit the building.

For a long time I denied what i actually saw because
it did not fit the mainstream’s version but when i
researched the event i realized what i saw was right.

The second plane was a military plane and you can
verify it by watching EVERY VIDEO that you can find
of the second planes impact.

Game over chimp!

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By Maani, April 23, 2012 at 2:16 pm Link to this comment

Firstly, let’s stop with the childish back-and-forth name-calling.  It serves no purpose, and only undermines thoughtful, considerate discussion and debate.

Second, one attempt that has apparently been forgotten was the Times Square bomber.  Yes, he, too, failed, but that was definitely a “terrorist” act.  Had it succeeded, dozens, perhaps hundreds, would have been injured and killed.

Having said that, I basically agree with those who believe that the threat of Islamic terrorism within U.S. border by Muslims already here is minimal at best.  (And even the threat of Islamic terrorism by outsiders is increasingly small, even according to the CIA’s own stats.)  If there were “cells” of radicals planning actions, we would certainly have seen at least a FEW of those actions by now - and not just by “individuals” like the Times Square Bomber, but by “groups.”

BTW, freedomrings, your estimate of the number of Muslims in NYC is overstated by half.  The majority of polls, studies and sites I looked at showed a number closer to 500,000 (with less than a million in the entire State), and a U.S. total of between 1.5 and 2.5 million.

Peace.

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By Night-Gaunt, April 23, 2012 at 2:06 pm Link to this comment

An Angry Jealous God

  “I have wiped out many nations, devastating their fortress walls and towers.  Their cities are now deserted; their streets are in silent ruin.  There are no survivors to even tell what happened.  I thought, ‘Surely they will have reverence for me now!  Surely they will listen to my warnings, so I won’t need to strike again.’  But no; however much I punish them, they continue their evil practices from dawn till dusk and dusk till dawn.”  So now the LORD says: “Be patient; the time is coming soon when I will stand up and accuse these evil nations.  For it is my decision to gather together the kingdoms of the earth and pour out my fiercest anger and fury on them.  All the earth will be devoured by the fire of my jealousy.  “On that day I will purify the lips of all people, so that everyone will be able to worship the LORD together.  My scattered people who live beyond the rivers of Ethiopia will come to present their offerings.  (Zephaniah 3:6-10 NLT)

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By freedomrings80, April 23, 2012 at 1:51 pm Link to this comment

@OzarkMichael

Ahhhh, i see u know the truth but will do anything to
hide it from the masses.

If Al Qaeda was real you would see it on the streets
of
America chimp.

Let’s see, 2 planes hit 2 buildings at different
speeds and different altitudes. Both buildings on a
daily basis hold up 25,000 ppl + 100k’s lbs
equipment. Both buildings were built to with stand
multiple impacts of planes.

Both buildings are completely TURNED TO DUST after
crashes.

Who’s got the star wars imagination chimp?

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By heterochromatic, April 23, 2012 at 1:48 pm Link to this comment

OZ—- the troll isn’t a conspiracy theorist, just a mindless twit.

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By OzarkMichael, April 23, 2012 at 1:46 pm Link to this comment

911 is a scam.

the conspiracy theorist finally reveals himself…

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By freedomrings80, April 23, 2012 at 1:39 pm Link to this comment

@heterochromatic

But 1000’s of crimes are commited every day in the
USA.

How can it be that none are al qaeda, especially
since they were here on 911?

Where’d they go CHIMP?

Can you stop crime? No!

Can you stop terrorism? No!

No car bombs, suicide bombs, drive byes, stabbings,
posionings, gas attacks, NADA by a islamic terrorist
in the usa EVER!

Islam has been around for 1400 years, its not
something new chimp, we have been bombing muslims
since ww1. 78% of our inmates are registered as
christian.

War on terror(itory) is a scam. 911 is a scam.

You are a scam.

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By heterochromatic, April 23, 2012 at 1:33 pm Link to this comment

there’s nothing to prove to you and little reason to try to explain the world and
evidence and probability all at once.


the vast majority of our Muslim citizens and visitors are good and decent people
and that doesn’t nothing to refute that others have accepted terror attacks and the
believe that it’s a good idea to kill random collections of American civilians and
have attempted to do just that.

....whether you ‘re convinced of it or not…...is really, really, really
unimportant….after all, you’re only one of hundreds of millions and it’s only bad
luck that brings your ignorant words to this site.

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By freedomrings80, April 23, 2012 at 1:21 pm Link to this comment

@heterochromatic

You must be from AIPAC/ADL.  Come on chimp, prove to
me the muslim threat is real.

Come on chimp, numbers never lie.

Over 1 million muslims alone in nyc and not even a
roach killed in the name of al qaeda since 911.

If the threat was real you would see it on the
streets EVERYDAY!

Al qaeda was here on 911, where’d they go?

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By heterochromatic, April 23, 2012 at 1:18 pm Link to this comment

minime—- mayhaps you’re that mindless mess under the bridge…...

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americanme's avatar

By americanme, April 23, 2012 at 1:10 pm Link to this comment

The troll in question is a US government troll.

With a foul mouth and a sockpuppet, too.

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By freedomrings80, April 23, 2012 at 1:06 pm Link to this comment

@heterochromatic

hhehehehe, what a chimp? you have a complete EMPTY
arsenal, zero substance moron and a troll.

what agency are you working for? AIPAC/JDL ? Or maybe
it’s federal?

Zero substance chimp!

Report this

By heterochromatic, April 23, 2012 at 12:55 pm Link to this comment

free—- you’re too ignorant to deal with…. have a nice childhood.

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By freedomrings80, April 23, 2012 at 11:37 am Link to this comment

Since 911 there have over 1 billion air flights, 100
million in the usa and if it wasnt for two guys
wanting to light their shoes or underwear on fire we
would have ZERO instances of “islamic terrorism” on
planes since 911.

Yet the government and chimps like “OzarkMichael”
want your internals examined in the name of security.

You have a better chance of being hit by lighting
25x’s then dying from an act of terrorism.

Guess who manufacturers the body scanners used at
every airport in the USA, ex homeland chief Michael
Chertoffs company, Rapiscan.

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By freedomrings80, April 23, 2012 at 11:33 am Link to this comment

@OzarkMichael

You are the biggest troll on here, Major hassan WAS
NOT charged with terrorism CHIMP. Major hassan WENT
POSTAL. He was a lone wolf and HAD ZERO CONNECTION to
any “terrorist” network.

When a non muslim commits crime like the university
shootings of last week or the afghan murderes, he’s
considered CRAZY, when a muslim commits a crime you
label him a terrorist and then bomb their country.

War on terror(itory) is a scam!

What a CHIMP you are.

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By freedomrings80, April 23, 2012 at 11:31 am Link to this comment

@heterochromatic

What a chimp!

1)Ft. hood WAS NOT terrorism, LOOK IT UP chimp! Ft
hood was Major hassan going postal. Major Hassan WAS
not charged with an act of terrorism.

2)Underwear bomber, he FAILED to light himself on
fire. In fact closer analysis reveals HE DIDNT EVEN
HAVE A REAL BOMB, it was faulty.


You are 0 for 2 CHIMP, what else do you have?

That’s 11 years and ZERO ISLAMIC terrorism in the
usa, we have university killings, congressman being
shot, attacks on museums, you name it and ZERO
islamic terrorism.

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americanme's avatar

By americanme, April 23, 2012 at 11:28 am Link to this comment

Trolls have taken over this thread, too.

Are there any real people still posting on Truthdig?

I don’t think so.

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OzarkMichael's avatar

By OzarkMichael, April 23, 2012 at 11:02 am Link to this comment

ON top of the numbers above over 1 million illegals cross the border every year and STILL ZERO terrorism by muslims since 911.

Wow. It takes a special person to go that deep into denial.

There have been several terrorism incidents by Muslims in America. The worst one was that doctor in the army who shouted “Allahu Ackbar!” while he opened fire on fellow soldiers and killed 13 of them. It happened last year i think. Dont you read the papers?

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By heterochromatic, April 23, 2012 at 11:00 am Link to this comment

Ft Hood

the underwear bomber…..


go look them up idiot.

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By freedomrings80, April 23, 2012 at 10:46 am Link to this comment

@heterochromatic

Obviously you are the the one SLEEPING, if its not a
fed troll lingering on this board. Please put up some
cases of “Islamic” terrorist attacks in the USA since
911.

I am waiting CHIMP!

Report this

By heterochromatic, April 23, 2012 at 10:45 am Link to this comment

freerings—- you obviously have little grasp of the facts and are pretty far off in
asserting that there have been no Islamist terror attacks in the US since 9/11…....

maybe YOU should get the sleep out of your eyes and do some reading and stop
talking so ignorantly.

Report this

By heterochromatic, April 23, 2012 at 10:41 am Link to this comment

freerings—- you obviously have little grasp of the facts and are pretty far off in
asserting that there have been no Islamist terror attacks in the US since 9/11…....

maybe YOU should get the sleep out of your eyes and do some reading and stop
talking ignorantly.

Report this

By freedomrings80, April 23, 2012 at 9:53 am Link to this comment

Lets look at statistics…

There are 8-9 million muslims in America, over 1
million alone in nyc.

Every day there are crimes commited, mass
murders/rapes/theft/molestations and yet not one
instance of Islamic terrorism since 911 on US soil.

Al Qaeda was here right on 911? So where’d they go?
ON top of the numbers above over 1 million illegals
cross the border every year and STILL ZERO terrorism
by muslims since 911.

Can you stop crime? No, so how do you stop terrorism?
You can’t the only way you can is if you are the one
creating it.

In ALL terrorist CELL busts government informants,
PLAN, FUND, RECRUIT, these individuals who most of
the time are ANGRY at american policies BUT HAVE NO
CAPABILITY of creating terrorism.

These anti muslim policies are not ONLY here but also
in European countries? Why? Did muslims attack those
nations TOO? NO, so why? It’s because most government
ARE HIJACKED who will do ANYTHING for Israel and the
OIL industry. Protecting Israel is supporting the
rogue leaders in the region which then controls the
oil.

When will we wake up?

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By freedomrings80, April 23, 2012 at 9:45 am Link to this comment

The truth behind these muslim hunters is that most of
our government policy makers are pro-israel and the
biggest threat to israel is the american muslim. An
american muslim who votes and organizes muslims is a
threat to israel because the billions of foriegn aid
can be loss.

In 20-40 years Muslims will be more of a major voice
in America with possibly 20-30 million of them. These
pro-israeli traitors within our government know this
and will do anything to stop any organization.

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By Sodium-Na, April 23, 2012 at 1:31 am Link to this comment

Subject: Chief Justice John Roberts on Independent Speech.

Quote
=======

Justice Roberts emphasized that he wanted to “in no way suggest that a regulation of independent speech would pass constitunational muster,even if the government were to show that such speech benefits foreign terrorist organizations.”

Unquote
=========

The above quote is taken from The New York Times’link which provided by Maani. Thank you,Maani.

My comments: Perhaps,it is interesting to notice that,and I re-quote Justice Robert,“even if the government were to show that such speech benefits foreign terrorist organizations.”

I wonder if there is someone who dares to tell me that Chief Justic,John G. Robert,is one of those Liberal CICADA or perhaps even Leftie CICADA!!!

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By OzarkMichael, April 22, 2012 at 8:52 pm Link to this comment

the only issue here is whether American citizens have the right to be protected from prosecution while doing advocacy work of no proven effectiveness for the armed and militarily active criminal enemies of the US

I think you are being reasonable, heterochromatic, but let me amend that. Such a person shouldnt be protected from prosecution unless they are crazy. Tarek Mehanna is not crazy, he is obviously brilliant.

So then the questions would be, “What is the penalty for doing advocacy work for a nation of group who are at war with us? And if the advocacy work happened to not be very effective, should the penalty be minimized? And if the person began to back out of the advocacy by rejecting what he was doing at the beginning, shouldnt the penalty be minimized?”

Unlike most people here, I do not think his Leftist ideology nor his Islamic Fundamentalism should be taken into account, as if it could either convict Tarek Mehanna or excuse what he did. He was quite simply guilty, and everything else is secondary.

Perhaps he was unsuccessful(how do we know?) in which case 17 years is too much. I think that is a valid objection. If he hadnt lied to the FBI then I would have no trouble agreeing with you. As Richard Nixon said in the movie: “it isnt what you actually do… its the lie that gets you in trouble.”

Just like the Leftists here(yourself excluded). Its isnt the principles that Leftists stand for…  its the double standard that gets them in trouble.

I suppose a double standard is a type of internal lie about what a person believes. If you dont apply the same rule to everyone then that rule becomes a type of lie. The problem is that the lie is so advantageous that most Leftists cant give it up, so their principles end up in the toilet.

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By heterochromatic, April 22, 2012 at 8:26 pm Link to this comment

—-Do you really think we are free to choose?——-


Only on earth is there talk of free will…. 

certainly not in salafist circles.

(and I’m not sure which circle dante would assign to the salafisters)

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By elisalouisa, April 22, 2012 at 8:13 pm Link to this comment

Do you really think we are free to choose? There is something deeper Michael.  At times a path is taken not because of choice but because one cannot do otherwise.  You yourself said that you respect Tarek Mehanna as a man and indeed he is a man to stand up and be true to himself. The powers that Tarek Mehanna is up against are determined to break him. Even the best of men can only take so much.

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OzarkMichael's avatar

By OzarkMichael, April 22, 2012 at 8:06 pm Link to this comment

There is no anger in Tarek Mehanna Michael.

Thats incorrect. His anger was great. I think even his defense attorney admitted that.

Oh but now i see. If you approve of his anger than you can claim that it isnt anger at all. Basically you resort to yet another double standard to defend your first one. Does that make it better? Or worse?

elisalouisa, judge for yourself. Keep all your ideas and beliefs, but dump the double standard the Chris Hedges has adopted. Judge every case on its merits instead of its propaganda value.

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By heterochromatic, April 22, 2012 at 8:02 pm Link to this comment

the only issue here is whether American citizens have the right to be protected
from prosecution while doing advocacy work of no proven effectiveness for the
armed and militarily active criminal enemies of the US

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