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Catholic Bishops Put Sex Obsession Ahead of the Sick and the Poor

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Posted on Nov 16, 2009
Coptic Icon / Wikimedia Commons

Christ feeding the multitude.

By Adele M. Stan, AlterNet

(Page 2)

Sex and Secrets in the Church

There is no small irony in the church’s self-appointed role as the moral arbiter of human sexuality, whether in the areas of human reproduction or non-heterosexual sex. As an institution, it ranks among the world’s most sexually dysfunctional. Its demands for life-long celibacy from its priests and nuns attract no small number of people who are uncomfortable with their own sexuality—be it something as benign and normal as homosexuality, or something criminal and predatory, as in the case of the priests who preyed on minors. Despite the high number of gay men in the priesthood—most of them likely celibate—speaking of their orientation publicly, while not expressly proscribed, is not exactly encouraged. The church addresses the sexuality of its own leaders by drawing a curtain around it, creating a culture of sexual secrecy that can only lead to dysfunction. By its actions, the church seems to say it’s not the sex that’s the sin, but evidence thereof. And that makes heterosexual sex primarily a woman’s sin, evidenced by pregnancy, a dynamic that feeds the misogyny of the church’s all-male leadership.

Many will argue that the church’s anti-abortion position is not about sex; it’s about the fetus, they will say. Yet if you take the church’s fierce opposition to abortion—without mercy even in cases of rape or incest—in the context of its opposition to contraception, it becomes difficult to accept the notion that the church’s dysfunction on matters of sexuality doesn’t enter into the equation.

The church has long excluded women from the priesthood for no reason other than their sex. Only a very naive or stupid woman would take church leaders at their word when they stake their abortion position on their purported love for the fetus. How many pregnant women will the Archdiocese of Washington abandon in favor maintaining a discriminatory practice against those LGBT people willing to speak the name of a love once denied them. How many babies born to mothers unable to care for them would the church prefer to see languish in foster care rather than place them in the home of a same-sex couple capable of raising them? Does love for the fetus end at the outer bank of the birth canal?

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Getting Their Way?

At press time, leading members the city council of the District of Columbia seemed unwilling to yield to the church’s demands. If the church walks away from its contractual obligations to society’s less fortunate, it won’t be the first time it has done so. In Boston, where the sex-abuse scandal first came to light, Catholic Charities ended its adoption programs in 2006 when Massachusetts banned discrimination against same-sex couples. In 1991, the City of New York reached a compromise with the Archdiocese of New York after a threat to give back to the city thousands of teen-age children in foster care after the state passed a law mandating access to contraceptives for children over the age of 12.

But in the Congress, things are different. There a stand against the newly invigorated church can mean major policy losses, thanks to the efforts of conservative Democrats like Stupak, recruited by the Democratic National Committee to run in less-than-liberal districts, who are allied with the bishops on matters concerning women’s rights.

"So the bishops were able to get their way," Kissling says of the anti-abortion measure added to the health-care bill. "And the thing with the bishops is, if they can get their way, no nuance or doubt enters their minds about whether getting their way is the right thing to do."

NOTE: The Catholic Alliance for the Common Good, a group that supports the anti-abortion Stupak amendment, was invited to comment for this article. AlterNet’s call was not returned.


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By Dominick J., November 26, 2009 at 10:19 am Link to this comment

Fundamentalist have been doing this for years, put up box and preach on the streets.  Part of “free speech”, don’t ya know? :O)  I used to love their end times speeches.  Laughable…  You’re right all the other religions don’t just Christians BUT it’s only fundamentlist christians who do this.  For goodnes sake they come to my home in pairs and I have to shoooo them away, sometime gently and then sometimes I have to get down right mean.

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By WykydRed, November 26, 2009 at 12:43 am Link to this comment

And that’s how easy it is to get the ball rolling… see how that happens? Instead of hitting the guys who run the sheep into the ford, take it out on people too stupid to even realize they can read a bible for themselves and ask questions or even demand answers.

Of course I’m not against taxing individual church members for their actions, but much like that idiotic pack of inbreds calling themselves a church—the Westboro Baptist Church—they should be taxed about a good 8000% every damn day they exist! They lost in the courts on a lawsuit and 10 million was decided upon as their settlement amount. Of course, they didn’t ever pay it, and that loony woman laughs about it and how “it ain’t NEVER gonna git paid!” Personally, I hope no one ever shoots them or blows them up or anything. They are the quintessential example of what NOT to be. Ever. And to tell you the truth, I haven’t seen or heard them demand anything from a politician. They annoy the shit out of regular folks. That’s not political, and in all fairness of what I’m talking about for taxation purposes (and as much as it GALLS me to say so), it would be unfair to tax them higher than say another church who is just going about its business and serving their people without a penny to politics. But, since a money judgment was won against them, and everyone has legally “dispersed” of anything they actually own, yes, the government should demand the losing party repay every, single penny, and yes, they should be allowed to take houses, cars, everything down to the last button on a Care Bear’s jacket, as well as any and all future earnings of everyone belonging to that “church” until the 10 million is paid.

I know it might sound harsh, and people will rally and say doing that to church members, as well as a church will play on the compassion of others and might turn some toward them. Well, ya takes yer chances when you mess with people, even legally. But I tell ya, if people like that are sent to jail for non-payment, I would insist every single one of them get their own cells in the ultimate high security prisons! They’re toxic!

The problem would be all the areas of free speech. And every wretch can use it. I can use it to vape my e-cig anywhere, but mostly thanks to the ACLU winning cases that “ban” even someone looking like they might be (GASP!) smoking. You can’t do that. Even if you don’t like seeing it. And you can’t stop someone doing anything because your kid might see.

Jesus. Our Founding Fathers would have done better to NOT pander to the few religious freaks of their time by “taming the language” of the Constitution. Maybe we should look to the rest of the world to see how they slapped down religion and their people keep such things to themselves and just let other people live their lives as they wish.

Or, just take the balls to the walls route and put out an Amendment that clarifies “religious freedom”. That it means personal freedom and nothing more. You can infect your kids to a certain extent, but just where that line is drawn, otherwise it’s child abuse (and brainwashing IS). You cannot simply walk the streets and shout, or grab people on the street and preach or put a box and jump on it and read out of your holy book. Jews don’t do that. Or Moslems. Or Buddhists. Why do “christians” believe they have the right? Or the Scientologists? We HAVE come to recognize and define cults. We know them when we see them. Why the cowardice of calling them that to their faces in public and warning people?

Tax the churches. When they tell their “flock” another fine or tax hike has been levied and they need money, watch and see how well that goes… Of course individual harassment with religion is a court deal and compensation against the individual is a wonderful thing! smile

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By Dominick J., November 25, 2009 at 4:13 pm Link to this comment

Money hits everyone in the wallet/pocketbook.  Soooooooooo how about, like the church likes to blackmail our elected officials and their own church members of Congress, WE the People will do the same to them. Not only TAX the church and all the clergy BUT get a hold of their membership list and let them all know if they stay members of this homophobic church they will be taxed separetly from their regular taxes as a member of this homophobic institution.  I wonder just how faithful the faithful would be if they found out Their Money will be touched becuase of their involvemnet with the Catholic church or any RR organization/church!!

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By WykydRed, November 25, 2009 at 3:38 pm Link to this comment

No, never thought of it. I get enough emails asking for donations! smile  I am queer. Remember when that was a word BEFORE gay people? lol (from an old “New Kids On The Block” sketch…).

From Webster’s dictionary: differing in some odd way from what is usual or normal b (1) : eccentric, unconventional (2) : mildly insane : touched

Those are the preferred choices for me. Of course I put “those other people” under the added definitions of queer as being: worthless, counterfeit b : questionable,
suspicious

When I say someone is “queer”, people know I mean they’re a little odd in a good way, so no one take offense, k? I am by nature, a try sexual. And have. A lot. Thank goodness I’m in my crone stage and can like, just sleep!

See? They can’t change who we are, sexual bent be damned. They can’t even define who people are outside of their small-minded cliques, and I know they can’t even define themselves. But, everyone has to come to some definition at some point. And then something else comes along to make them re-define themselves, so people change and then things change. I just truly wish it wouldn’t take so damn long, you know? Remember when people used to say white couples couldn’t adopt black kids because “white people have no idea how to raise a black child within their own cultural expectations?” A bullshit reason for keeping people who loved each other apart. Look at how well that worked out for the bigots… One day, America will be like the rest of the world. And look how long it took all of them to throw off religion and become human!

You’d think people would learn a little from the “300”. Sure, your million can beat those determined 300. But when the villages hear about it, let the term “stomped shit” take on a new meaning in your mind.

I suppose gay, straight, odd, queer and everyone other could get together and put out a newsletter saying the Catholic Church has made us change our minds. We’re all straight now.

But we’ve taken up cannibalism. And we’ve been told to eat everyone who isn’t or we don’t get our cracker.

‘Cause that’s basically what the church wants. And they’re willing to deny their own theology to get it! “Come over to our side and you can stay married and have sex and birth control. We just want big numbers to wave on a flag.” Hypocrites, the lot. The churches making the most noise to keep inhumanity alive ain’t broke by any means! Tax those suckers and tax them harder than a carton of cigarettes! And keep raising the tax every time they try something stupid and never lower their tax rate!

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By Dominick J., November 25, 2009 at 2:52 pm Link to this comment

Thanks WykydRed…  Yes that docment is a real piece of trash just like they are.  LGBT, the “g” for gay is in refernece to queer and others do add the “O” for other.  But when you respond to any of the Gay organizations I’m sure they don’t mind what ever initials you want to add.  Say if you’re not Gay did you ever think of joining up with PFLAG?

I’m on my way over to http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathaniel-frank/christian-leaders-scapego_b_370525.html
to read this.  Thanks for posting it.

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By WykydRed, November 25, 2009 at 1:14 pm Link to this comment

Hey Dominick,

I read that Manhattan bull. I swore it was Papal Bull outta Manhattan. I also took my last $200 and donated again to the LGBT.

They really have to change that anagram…. to the LGBTQO. Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgendered, Queer and Other. I fit more in the “queer” category, and it has nothing to do with my sexuality! I feel all people should be covered. It’ll confuse the politicians. I’m sure the people writing this vile document will be confused too, but hey ... fuck’um.


Great article: [url=“http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathaniel-frank/christian-leaders-scapego_b_370525.html”]
Christian Leaders Scapegoat Gays on Marriage by Nathaniel Frank[/url]

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By WykydRed, November 23, 2009 at 4:16 pm Link to this comment

Politicians go where the money is. It really is that simple. People get into politics to accumulate money, power and even more ego. 98% of them either start that way or get that way.

(Why are we the only ones typing? Did everyone get bored or are people suddenly afraid to pick on the “Catholic School Victim?” ‘Cause it’s bullshit. I can take a hit. Or 14.)

Okay, the x-tians are fragmented, so are the Jews and Muslims and everyone, really. But, those fragments get together and collect lots of voices and ... money! Our government doesn’t work for us, never has. It goes to the voices with the money. And the land. And the free cars. And the “house renovations”. Stuff like that there. But you gotta have your ass aligned to give them big, fat, well-paid jobs after they get thrown out of their jobs or “retire” when their egos can no longer fit in their very large, well-appointed national monuments…

So, the enemy of freedom have loud voices, lots of money to bribe and jobs afterward with lots and lots of perks.

What do we have? We’re broke, and there are tons more of us who just want to let each other live, even though we bitch about what others do. But we have something the others don’t: numbers.

I know that sounds simplistic, but lots and lots of people. Okay it hasn’t helped so far, but, we’re all so busy trying to organize and find money to re-bribe the bribe. Ponder simplicity. We may not have money, but we all pay taxes. And we all vote.

Half the population doesn’t. Not in America. But, you take all the gay groups, you take the disenfranchised people like me and you folks, you take the decent Christians and Moslems and Hindus and Mexicans and Atheists and Agnostics and everyone who doesn’t fall under the umbrella of Rich and Powerful and put ‘em all together. And then everyone who does pay taxes, stops. On the same day at the same time. We just all stop.

And we all talk to… the A.C.L.U.! In one voice. We give THEM our money. Sure, the I.R.S. will arrest some of us and the government will come get a few of us. But, how many can they put in jail all at once? And for how long?
What’ll it cost? Hmmm.

There are laws in the Constitution governing the taxation of citizens. They aren’t even allowed to take it out of paychecks, they’re supposed to send us bills and let US decide how to pay it. But, when did people forget “no taxation without representation”? Like everyone’s said, WE aren’t represented. If we were, anyone could marry any and everyone they wanted to! If we were, zero money would be going to war. There would be no more “sin” taxes, as they are illegal because I’m an atheist. I don’t even believe in sin!

Let’s see, no money coming in in taxes, people being sent to jails for however long, money coming out of state, city, fed funds…. Me? I’m willing to take jail. And with many of us crammed in there, no one will be buying anything. Sure, jobs will open up, but what if the people taking them aren’t paying taxes either? What if businesses aren’t being used?

And what if we could ask the ACLU about how we go about finding out if government salaries can be raised all the time without OUR votes? What if they get curious and ask about all the Senators in jail who STILL get paid and still get the perks and the iron-clad health care for their families? What happens if that stops? And there is no money coming in. And politicians, past and present are held responsible for their “sins”? What happens to the bribers and coffer-fillers and lobbyists? People used to be that brave. Ask Ghandi. Or Martin Luther King. Or Harvey Milk. It takes effort. And numbers. And just wanting the bullshit to stop. But, people are afraid.

“People should not be afraid of their government. Their government should be afraid of the people.”—V

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By Dominick J., November 23, 2009 at 2:44 pm Link to this comment

Great post WykydRed.  I can’t understand how, with so many organizations out there also against the intrusion of the Religious Right, Catholics included, we can’t get a petition going to have them somehow removed from the government system and that includes our elected officials.  We have petitions for everything under the sun But this.  We need our government to know WE do Not want religions dictating government bills.  The government doesn’t seem to take all Americans seriously.  How else could a President of the United States say, “I don’t believe Gays should get married, it’s against my faith.”  I love Obama but he said this.  I wrote to him and said it isn’t against my faith and I’m a Christian too.  Never did get a response from him.

Any way read the “Declaration to Manhattan” written by the Catholic church.  If you can’t find it let me know and I’ll post it here.

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Peetawonkus's avatar

By Peetawonkus, November 23, 2009 at 12:29 pm Link to this comment

WykydRed,
Just stopped by to say I really enjoyed this last post of yours. Brilliant! Nothing really to add…except Amen!

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By WykydRed, November 23, 2009 at 11:16 am Link to this comment

Well, thread died I guess. Anyway, I’ve been thinking. This whole “tax all churches” thing won’t work. Before churches were given tax exempt status, they were yelling from pulpits about who to vote for in which offices. No matter how tiny or low ranked. So, the “churches” were given a bribe by a government already ordered to keep religion and politics separate. Bribing them didn’t do a bit of good, because they’ve been doing everything from “suggesting” to the flock which christian to put into power to making fake phone call surveys that are nothing but, “you certainly don’t want anyone in government that won’t pass an Amendment to make burning the flag a crime, now do you?” Focus on the Family is HUGE in Colorado when it comes to politics, and the HQ “asks” all congregation members everywhere to “do your part in this election”.

The churches who have openly defied the law did so knowing they would not in any way be punished. Even Bush had the FBI arrest catholic members of an anti-war group from that church, and even had them continually harassed, arrested continuously, hounded, hunted and finally, had the I.R.S. send a letter to their church telling them if their members did not immediately stop, their exempt status would retroactively be removed. Bush did not however have any church that supported, worked for, had their “flock” work for the Repugs in any way threatened or messed with. They were all given free reign, as so far as anyone knows, not a church has had their tax exempt status revoked, even for a short while. Why? Well because the politicians consider the “faith-based” a huge, money-making (and hiding) machine!

How about this? Revoke ALL tax exempt status on ALL churches now. Make them all account for every single penny all the time. (get Atheist bookkeepers to do the accounting). No “business” exemptions. Start there. Whenever a church or members make calls for politicians, or hand out flyers, charge them heavier taxes. 2000% for a pack of cigarettes is considered “legal” in this country, even though it isn’t. Use the same logic on “churches”. A Catholic bishop wants to make law in this country? Raise the taxes on that church throughout America. That bishop wants to deny service to a member of his church who is a POLITICIAN? That’s blackmail, taxes go up over what they already are.

How hard is it really to spot a vote that goes against the Constitution in favor of something that bars anyone’s right to something other people don’t want existing? The religious think abortion is wrong? Well this, this and this politician voted to outlaw it, even in a State or two. Sorry, buds. What churches do you belong to? Oh. Ka-ching! Raise taxes on these churches.

You would need to do it once or twice a year. And no favorites, every religion is open to anti-Constitutional Taxation. People forget. It’s not a matter of numbers. The highest percentage does NOT get to make the rules in this country, not even in States. The Constitution protects 1. Every, single 1. You don’t like alcohol? Too bad. That guy there does. You can’t ban it. Next!

The religious will go into politics regardless. But, if you make it clear THEIR ways don’t get to decide for anyone else, and tax them every single time they interfere, they will eventually have to stop. How to keep it all honest? Easy. A panel of 9 confirmed Atheists. If their majority of members don’t like something, it’s gotta be bad!

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By Dominick J., November 22, 2009 at 8:38 am Link to this comment

You’re welcome WykydRed. You’re right he’s trying to fix the problem by bringing it to the attention of the American people BUT it needs to aired with MORE news stations and news stations in More Prime time viewing!  It would also be nice if he were on Larry King too!

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By WykydRed, November 22, 2009 at 2:11 am Link to this comment

Dominick J., thank you for that link! Sounds like he’s trying to fix what he and his father broke. Too little too late, but at least he’s trying.

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By WykydRed, November 21, 2009 at 6:32 am Link to this comment

Aw man, now I have that song playin’ in my head…. lol

Every form of “christian” in this country, at least, simply will not hear the rest of us when we say “YOU proved there is no god”. They put it down to our demonic possession, I suppose. Everyone IS born an atheist. Some of us just get lucky and have these hateful type people show us the way back to the path of non-terror. So yup, “christians”, be you Evangelicals, Pentacostals, Baptists, Revivalists, etc., THANK YOU all for giving me well defined examples of how I do not want to live my life!

And remember, just ‘cause you say, “I would have died in that flood except God saved my life!”, does NOT give anyone proof that you’re right and everyone else is wrong. Your detractors don’t think you’re stupid for believing in some god. They don’t think you’re idiots for needing to blame someone else for your fate. If it helps you deal with shit, hey, it’s YOUR free will! Your detractors think your’re stupid and idiotic because of the WAYS you act and speak and the things you do to force this world to be a “better place”. Frankly, I have zero fear of dying. Death’s gotta be easier to handle than this whacked out zoo.

But that’s just me, so if you are going to attack and preach at me and describe in detail which demons are going to rape me and which of Satan’s spawn are gonna chew on me and rip my flesh from my bones before throwing me into a flaming lake of human piss and excrement, please keep in mind my statements are MY OWN. So don’t take it out on anyone else who is an atheist or agnostic. Everyone thinks differently, even those who think alike on some things, k?

And like Dave says, our search for intelligent life in the universe might result in the answer, “Dear children, we’ll come back when you’re done with recess.”

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By DaveZx3, November 21, 2009 at 6:06 am Link to this comment

WykydRed, November 21 at 7:54 am

“That “god” gave each of us free will”,

Yes, absolutely. Man is endowed with free will.  And man has chosen his collective course.  You can see it played out on the news daily. 

My only surprise is that people constantly seem shocked by the wars, murders, abuses, prejudices, injustices, misinformation, lies, cheating, stealing, deception, etc. that are exhibited daily in the lives of men. 

They like to gather into groups and say, “we are not like those others, we are a good people”
 
But yet, every nation, every race, every creed, every religion exhibit the same characteristics mentioned above, to one extent or another, over and over and over and over.

Yes, man has free will, and man has chosen to follow his will, and we see the results all over.

And man says, “let’s look for “other” intelligent life in the universe”

And the real intelligent life in the universe says, “don’t call us, we’ll call you”

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By WykydRed, November 21, 2009 at 3:54 am Link to this comment

That was ... amazing, Dave. Beautifully written. Really.

You’re right. It comes down to ego. Human ego. People say they believe in god, whatever form it takes for them, and they all claim at one point or another that “their god” made man in “His” image. They can’t answer what image woman is made from, so starts the subjugation. And the ball gets rolling. In every “holy book” or ideals, there’s always the profound belief that mankind was made free to choose how each of us lives and by what rules. That “god” gave each of us free will, and that even a God cannot force, push or order anyone to live exactly as that god wants. So I’m wondering just where humans decided they had to force their wills on other humans, killing them, burning them, torturing them into mouthing what they were told to say, damned if they believed it or not? Unfortunately, ego. If you can force, terrify and finally kill “unbelievers” into mouthing what you want, then your “army” gets bigger. The biggest army wins which god to make and how.

Every “holy book” or writings or beliefs all have the same hidden theme: fellowship with other human beings, belief that you are doing your best to live your personal life well, compassion for others, love in the face of hate, unity in respect for each person, whether those others live like you do or not. Whether they follow the “rules” or not. Maybe those simplistic ways was how it started, but then human ego intervened and words were written. And the word really is mightier than the sword, because words can make people put down-or pick up-swords. And human ego said “pick up your sword for ME and make others do as I say”. And then others took offense and wrote their own entries and everything divided.

Religion IS a war of egos, not a thing of any god. I wonder what would have happened if these gods everyone believes so strongly and angrily in had forseen human egos taking things over and enslaving mankind and all the horrors done in the name of their “Creator” and thought, “Shit. I’d better make myself clear!” What if the gods everyone are so proud of came together into one ...whatever, being, cloud, thought, stepped down for a moment and carved into mountains its message, from itself and what it intended, the simple message, “be at peace”.

From everything I’ve seen of “humanity”, I’m dead sure some big, ego-driven, world-conquering-wanna-be would have said, “Ohhhh, we can’t have that!” And it would have started all over again.

And there would still be people like us, speaking against hypocrisy and ego-driven demands that even a god wouldn’t make. The only thing religious fanatics of any ilk prove to me on a daily basis is that they will do whatever disgusting, hateful, harmful thing they can to force everyone to obey THEIR words, all the while saying they’re doing it in the name of “god’s love”.

Ewww. What a boring place life would be if people did their individual best to live a good life, huh? I don’t even think we would have invented places to post!

to the “religious”: leave me alone to live my life as I please. Let me smoke, drink, allow others to grow pot or paint themselves and dance naked by fires or have abortions or be free of religion. If you really “believe” in this god of yours, then I will have to answer to “It”, not to YOU. You aren’t gods, and you don’t know a god’s will. You follow man’s will. I won’t be sorry about how I lived my life. I don’t care about its judgment. I truly do not and nothing you say will scare me into caring. If trying to do the best I can isn’t good enough for this entity, well too bad. I know it isn’t good enough for you people. So bomb me. Burn me. Shoot me. Knife me. Whatever you’d like. Nothing will make me come over to your hateful, demanding side. Nothing will make me treat others like you do. I will live my life by what I know is right. You keep trying to figure it out, okay?

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By DaveZx3, November 20, 2009 at 11:39 pm Link to this comment

Quoting the article:
“They lead a church that claims to stand on the side of the sick and the poor, the meek who shall inherit the earth”

You cannot have any rational discussion when the opening statement contains a false premise in the first four words. 

Church is not a negotiable, relative term.  It has a meaning which is absolute and not within the scope of mankind to change.  Of course that does not deter men from taking words to mean whatever they want them to mean, and writing their relative definitions into their little dictionaries. 

God, Church and religion are three completely separate things. 

Religion, a relative term, is something that man invents to further whatever agenda he has.  Religion needs a god of some sort, but not necessarily a supreme being.  Religions are free to define god in whatever way they determine, not to say there is any truth to their definition.  Almost any belief system could fit the broad definition of religion, even atheism or humanism.

Church, a word orginated in the New Testament, literally means “the elect”.  God being the one doing the electing, not man doing the electing.  This is important, because it means that no one can choose to become a member of the “true Church”. 
The man-made false churches and religions are often open to self-enrollment, but not the true Church. 

How anyone could think the “Roman Catholic Church” has anything to do with Christ is unbelievable to me.  They violate almost all the teachings of Christ, preaching the false premise that the Pope can change all things, which is biblically untrue.

Other churches may follow a portion of the teachings, but Christ stated, “if you are guilty of one, you are guilty of all”, so they fall short, as well.  They all have what is described as “a form of godliness, but denying the power”  That is one of the reasons they fight for good health insurance and a good return on their investments.  We know what they have put their faith in. 

God established His one Church.  It is not incorporated in any legal jurisdiction.  It is not readily apparent on earth, but is present.  You can tell the true Church in that they follow the teachings of Christ, not the traditions of the false-churches.  The true Church’s major role at this time is “patience”  They are very, very few in number.

No one understands these concepts, instead judging Church and God by what they see this false-church, political/religious complex doing.  The man-made religions fight each other and fight and war perpetually, being the cause of almost all war and division.  They are the embodiment of anti-Christ activity. 

Who are these warring, divisive individuals, and where does their leadership come from?  That is the primary question.  It is not really a big secret.

Do not be surprised when you see the world’s religions acting with hypocrisy, intolerance, hatred and violence.  But realize who they are and what their function is.  Also realize that their efforts are becoming more hurried, as they do realize their time is getting short. 

With regard to the subject of this thread, it does not surprise me what is written.  But I am not shocked by any of it.  To all the innocent people who get lied to and deceived by these false institutions, I would tell them to quit participating.  It is better to stay home with friends and family and send your prayers to God unfettered by the filters of the false religions.

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By stcfarms, November 20, 2009 at 5:17 pm Link to this comment

Not really, all that the christo nazi children wanted to do was fight. I got real
good at it but there was little cultural interaction involved. I am working on it…

Christian minds are closed by choice and crucial dendrite connections are not
made early in life because of that choice. Because the dendrite connections are
so few in number conceptual thought becomes impossible. One has to wonder
why people with limited cerebral ability believe that they have the right to
make decisions for everyone else.

By KDelphi, November 20 at 7:54 pm #

stcfarms—havent you ever had anyone that you disagreed with try to kid you
out of it with a (very) little joke? I guess not..

A lobotomy effects emtions, mostly, not intellect anyway. Churhc isnt stupid—
they find ways to interject themselves in almost everything.

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By WykydRed, November 20, 2009 at 4:03 pm Link to this comment

I’m half French. One side of my family still talks about it as if we cut a few heads off ourselves…. lol.  If I had said, “We need another American Revolution”, people would have jumped out of them thar’ Internets Tubes to yell something about how I wanted to kill EVERYONE so I could sit in an empty country and smoke without hearing shit…. Everyone knows I just wanna kill the fanatics….

Okay, how about grammatically, I say, “We need the kind of Revolution in America that occurred in France.” That work for ya? :_)

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By KDelphi, November 20, 2009 at 3:54 pm Link to this comment

WydKydRed—I thought the French Revolution happened in France..another one in the uS? We havent had our first one. USAns dont have the balls for a real revolution anymore…if they had, they wouldve done something by now.

stcfarms—havent you ever had anyone that you disagreed with try to kid you out of it with a (very) little joke? I guess not..

Glad you think my lobotomy worked out well..how was your partial? (you said you couldnt afford a full one.) NOW THAT IS A BAD JOKE! You dont have to laugh, but you dont have to take it so personally.

A lobotomy effects emtions, mostly, not intellect anyway. Churhc isnt stupid—they find ways to interject themselves in almost everything.

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By Dominick J., November 20, 2009 at 10:23 am Link to this comment

“Science flies
us to the moon, religion flies us into buildings”.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhahahahaha Great Quote!!!

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By Peetawonkus, November 20, 2009 at 10:13 am Link to this comment

“Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.” Blaise Pascal.

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By stcfarms, November 20, 2009 at 10:02 am Link to this comment

We are in good company when you consider that their other “demons” were
Da Vinci, Galileo, Darwin et cetera. In a world where you are measured by the
power your enemies we must be giants. Some months back a truthdig member
posted the following statement that I feel best describes religion “Science flies
us to the moon, religion flies us into buildings”.

By WykydRed, November 20 at 1:34 pm #

Of course, you know intelligence makes you a “demon”, huh?

Better to party with the devil than dance with the psalm-singers!

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By Dominick J., November 20, 2009 at 9:35 am Link to this comment

Peetawonkus you hit the nail right on the head.  But I do have to add IGNORANT Christians.  As far as any of them go, if Jesus did come again, they would NEVER recognize Him, even when He showed them His hands, feet and head!

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By WykydRed, November 20, 2009 at 9:34 am Link to this comment

Bet it’s hard as shit to pull the wool over your eyes, stcfarms. Of course, you know intelligence makes you a “demon”, huh?

Better to party with the devil than dance with the psalm-singers!
—————-

By Peetawonkus, November 20 at 1:01 pm #

The Devil sure is a tricky dude. His best trick was getting Christians to do his work for him.

Funny how they never notice they’re doing exactly the same as the “bad” guys in Dah Bukk, but because they shout the name “Jesus!”, they’re sure everyone sees them as the “good” guys…. Need another French Revolution in America ...

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By Peetawonkus, November 20, 2009 at 9:01 am Link to this comment

The Devil sure is a tricky dude. His best trick was getting Christians to do his work for him.

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By Dominick J., November 20, 2009 at 8:25 am Link to this comment

Here is more of what the Relgious Right is all about and the Catholic church is right in there with them!!!

VIDEO - FRANK SCHAEFFER - (HE & HIS FATHER CREATED THE “RELIGIOUS RIGHT”)—- HIS APPEARANCE ON MSNBC-RACHEL MADDOW!—- http://paulrevererides.wordpress.com

Frank Schaeffer (and his father Francis) created the Religious Right in the 1970’s.

Frank was on MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow show this week.
He gives a very insightful assessment of what the Religious Right is all about and why they are doing what they are doing NOW.

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By stcfarms, November 20, 2009 at 7:36 am Link to this comment

Your story is not unusual. When I was 4 I told my catholic grandmother that I
did not believe in her god. 3 days later I found myself in a Jesuit prison camp
(parochial school) with a herd of brainwashed 6 year olds that were told that I
was the devil. For 9 years I had to fight the dull witted little nazis constantly. In
9th grade a priest decided to beat the fear of the lord into me, fortunately I
had been doing a man’s work on a dairy farm for years and was much stronger
than a fat lazy priest. I broke his arm, nose, collar bone and three ribs before
the christo nazis drug me off him. I would like to thank them for making me
the toughest son of a bitch in the valley…

By WykydRed, November 20 at 3:55 am #

By Edward Sacco, November 19 at 9:04 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

WOW! WYKYDRED…

THIS IS “TRUTH DIG”——-You are talking without knowing the Catholic Church;

Really? How very nice of you to assume. Resume: I was born a “Catholic”,
raised a Catholic by an exorbitantly Catholic grandmother who was
horrendous in her “beliefs” and never failed to incite them upon others,
watched a mother and a step-father fight the “church” about her divorce,
remarriage and adoption of us kids, brother abused by priests and nuns,
myself abused by nuns and threatened by priests, lied to grandmother
because they knew she would continuously beat me and make my mother beat
the both of us, excommunicated at age 9 along with my family because my
step-father kept trying to kill my mother and frankly, she had enough so she
went for a divorce and that, in the “church” is enough to get you and your kids
excommunicated. (The Vatican did indeed send Mom a letter advising her of
the family’s status in the “church” and how we were never again to enter one
or participate, which we VERY gladly adhered to!) 4 catholic schools attended
by me and my brother, brother now helps abuse victims by both priests and
nuns and has been for 25 years. I don’t think you need to know what I with my
time, but I just want to brag on my brother because he’s a wonderful guy.

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By WykydRed, November 19, 2009 at 11:55 pm Link to this comment

By Edward Sacco, November 19 at 9:04 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

WOW! WYKYDRED…

THIS IS “TRUTH DIG”——-You are talking without knowing the Catholic Church;

______

Really? How very nice of you to assume. Resume: I was born a “Catholic”, raised a Catholic by an exorbitantly Catholic grandmother who was horrendous in her “beliefs” and never failed to incite them upon others, watched a mother and a step-father fight the “church” about her divorce, remarriage and adoption of us kids, brother abused by priests and nuns, myself abused by nuns and threatened by priests, lied to grandmother because they knew she would continuously beat me and make my mother beat the both of us, excommunicated at age 9 along with my family because my step-father kept trying to kill my mother and frankly, she had enough so she went for a divorce and that, in the “church” is enough to get you and your kids excommunicated. (The Vatican did indeed send Mom a letter advising her of the family’s status in the “church” and how we were never again to enter one or participate, which we VERY gladly adhered to!) 4 catholic schools attended by me and my brother, brother now helps abuse victims by both priests and nuns and has been for 25 years. I don’t think you need to know what I with my time, but I just want to brag on my brother because he’s a wonderful guy.

Don’t get me started on the hideous things I’ve seen from Southern Baptists.

My brother and I are both confirmed Atheists. X-tians are WHY. Whatever name they go by, they forced us to truly look at things without blinking and neither of us ever found any proof of “god”. And we’ve studied and delved into everything. And while there are some (but very, very, very few) examples of what I would actually call “Christians” in this world, they are NOTHING like everyone else who call themselves by the title. In fact, they’re the exact opposite of everything “christian” in this country and they simply live their lives by the way they see fit. Never once voted for anything that denied anyone their right to live their lives as they see fit, never demeaned them for how they live, have lovely senses of humor, take everything in stride and try to deal with it on an amazing (to me, anyway) level and they LEAVE PEOPLE ALONE TO DECIDE WHAT AND HOW THEY WANT TO DO THINGS. Unless asked for advice. And they are because their answers are usually sound and unjudgmental.

Trust me here, x-tians are not trying to make the world better, they’re fighting for Top Dog on who can make the world cringe and kowtow in fear, never stepping out of line and beating their kids to death for “Jesus”. We are the ones who have to stop sniveling and bowing to the asshole “priests of the Money Temple” and shut their hate up. Maybe then the very, very few others can find—just some space for THEIR voices. I’ll still be an atheist, but it would kinda be like being surrounded by Buddhists in a garden while you drink a wine cooler and smoke….

Now, wanna ask me about my driver’s qualifications or something?....

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By Gloria Picchetti, November 19, 2009 at 6:55 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This article reports the facts. The Catholic Church never changes. It killed the Jesuits, Joan of Arc, & thousands of poor people, or aristocrats who did not agree with the pope since it began. The basic premise is have as many children as possible, send your children to Catholic school, pay tithes, & do not agree with your government officials who disagree with the Holy Roman Church even if some priests are pedophiles.

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By Dominick J., November 19, 2009 at 6:22 pm Link to this comment

omygodnotagain then you had better read the article again.  They would deny food to the poor and health care to the poor IF Abortion Becomes a part of Health Reform.  That is blackmail!!!
AND if this is health reform with a strong option how do you figure you will pay anything with your taxes?  What you’re talking about is GOP RR propaganda and the issue is only Abortion because Religious Right Groups and Catholic bigots and zealots have made it so IT is an issue of a Womens Right To Choose.  You also need to study up on the whys of why the RR is against a womens right to choose.  AND by the way no one is infrigning on what you believe but you guys are sure as hell infringing on my rights ALL of my rights, and you’re using our government to do it by making demands and writting government policy!!!  Get a life and get the hell out of mine!

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By Edward Sacco, November 19, 2009 at 5:04 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

WOW! WYKYDRED…

THIS IS “TRUTH DIG”——-You are talking without knowing the Catholic
Church; speaking from an extreme that targets the worse in religion
and lumps it all together. Speaking from an extreme with such
erroneous “certainty” negates thoughtful criticism and discussion which
is needed.

Digging for Truth requires one to look at the Big Story and explore
various issues from all sides.  No easy task, and if one honestly
searches for a “truth,” one may find that it is a humbling experience.

Catholics are always analyzing and criticizing. Makes interesting
reading if you’re curious. I’ve a feeling though, that most practicing
Catholics are willing to follow their conscience which may or may not
follow the Bishops who are themselves split on the issue.

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By omygodnotagain, November 19, 2009 at 4:32 pm Link to this comment

It is not denying healthcare to the poor, it is opposing making Abortion part of insured basic health coverage.  If they refused they would be sued. Further it is worth remembering that Gov Reagan signed the right to Abortion in California, under the stipulation it was in cases where the health of the mother was at risk. Within a few years the risk of depression was grounds enough for an Abortion. That bait and switch has radicalized those who feel Abortion is wrong. It was underhanded, and they feel that this HealthCare reform is just another attempt at tne same thing, a stealth attempt to force those opposed to abortion to go along with the
program. Why should Catholics who believe Abortion is murder be forced to supply medical services for that procedure. BTW, the current law prohibits Federal funds for abortion. PS I’m not a right winger, just someone who feels that after years of caring for the poor in their hospitals, it beggars belief that they can be criticized for adhering to their long held beliefs.
Furthermore, I have never been convinced of the self righteous posturing of those who think Abortion is OK that those that don’t are fringe lunatics

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By Peetawonkus, November 19, 2009 at 3:13 pm Link to this comment

omygodnotagain
Just in case you missed it (and I know you right-wingers have a short attention span), the point of the article is how the Catholic church is threatening to DENY health care to exactly the poorest of the poor—if the church doesn’t get its way in imposing its authoritarian anti-choice views on everyone else, including non-Catholics. Sure sounds like kind hearted charity to me. Extortion for political gain—is that what Jesus would do?

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By omygodnotagain, November 19, 2009 at 2:50 pm Link to this comment

This article is just a dressed up anti catholic rant. Got news for bigots like you, The only medical care in many inner cities are Catholic Hospitals.
When one notes the stingest political groups in regard to charitable giving are progressive liberals predominantly in the large coastal cities, its time to cut the arrogance. What do you and your friends do for the healthcare of the poor uninsured..very little probably

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By stcfarms, November 19, 2009 at 1:23 pm Link to this comment

I see that your lobotomy worked out fine.

By KDelphi, November 19 at 1:21 am #

srcfarms—all you need is an icepick and a mirror—j/k, ok?

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By WykydRed, November 19, 2009 at 2:54 am Link to this comment

By KDelphi, November 19 at 1:21 am

“Well, its their typical self interest—little boys dont get pregnant, so…the separation of church/state in this country has become a joke.”

Or… grow stem cell uteri up little boy’s bums. That’ll either stop the religos from going up little boy’s bums (it ain’t just the Catholics, folks!) or force a total renegotiation on abortion.

This is America. It ain’t THAT far-fetched an idea! Remember, this country doggedly fought for stem cell research to be the first to grow a working organ on a bunny that didn’t have one.

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By jim9, November 19, 2009 at 2:06 am Link to this comment

If you look at the past you cannot fail to see the good news: comments like this against a “religious” institution. Seeing them what they are. Their fake language name calling, their madness and its supporting intolerance (called “defense of faith”) and their long list of perversity thrown open. And thy are in a majority! here democracy doesn’t quite work the way the Greek slave owners imagined.

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By KDelphi, November 18, 2009 at 9:21 pm Link to this comment

Well, its their typical self interest—little boys dont get pregnant, so…the separation of church/state in this country has become a joke.

I’m with Sara Silverman—tax the catholic church to pay for health care. Tax all the dam n churches and catch up with the free world.

voice of truth—well, they should all step up and adopt the unwanted babies, then..oh, never mind! I take that back! Please do NOT adopt these poor babies!

srcfarms—all you need is an icepick and a mirror—j/k, ok?

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By WykydRed, November 18, 2009 at 9:19 pm Link to this comment

By JEANNIEMAC, November 18 at 11:29 pm #

I posted the full story of how the airplane crashed near the cemetary, killing many members of the abortion doctor’s family.  It was not printed. This site is ultra- liberal.  It does not want to see the full truth.

——————————-

This site is in no way “ultra-liberal”. They didn’t put up my earlier post either, probably because it called all the religious a pack of shitheel idiots with absolutely no regard for human beings, their rights or their ethics on how to live. Not in those exact words, but they must not have wanted to anger evil into shooting someone. Again….

——-

Come on people. What can you expect from a religious entity who announces (in THIS day and age) that they are the “only real” church and everyone who doesn’t immediately become a Catch-o-lick is doomed to hell? You know what? Join an Atheist group. Or a group of Free Thinkers and at least get the numbers up to prove there are people out there who use their brains and want to put a halt to child abuse by brainwashing! Let those pandering, money-grubbing politicians of all ilks know that we ARE a force bigger than the x-tians. That’ll make the pollsters sweat!

Ron Paul for President! Write him in if ya have to. smile

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By anaman51, November 18, 2009 at 8:23 pm Link to this comment

We’re talking about an organization that’s already guilty of mass murder, torture, and buggery, among other crimes against humanity. What’s a little extortion tacked onto the end of their resume?

Notice how all the christers claim they’re the only ones responding who’re capable of telling the truth? To argue with a christer is to waste your time. They can’t hear you unless you agree with them.

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By Peetawonkus, November 18, 2009 at 7:57 pm Link to this comment

JEANNIEMAC,

Truth? Christian Nazis like you wouldn’t know truth if it came up sank its fangs in their ass. The only reason you harp on this sad story is because in your crazy imagination you think it is “crime and punishment” from an angry God on godless abortionists. Every human sorrow on this planet is twisted into your sick fantasies in order to satisfy your authoritarian political agenda.

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By JEANNIEMAC, November 18, 2009 at 7:29 pm Link to this comment

I posted the full story of how the airplane crashed near the cemetary, killing many members of the abortion doctor’s family.  It was not printed. This site is ultra- liberal.  It does not want to see the full truth.

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By Ed sacco, November 18, 2009 at 6:46 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Re: CATHOLIC CHURCH…..Focusing on the Bishop’s statement gives one a
false impression of the diversity of the Catholic church with a wide variety
of opinions. One needs to read Catholic publications over time. AMERICA
CATHOLIC WEEKLY, COMMONWEAL, & THE NATIONAL CATHOLIC
REPORTER are just three of them.

And, of course, it is helpful to read Catholic spiritual writers and then one
would have to make a distinction between politics and the Catholic faith.
If one want the “truth,” this is necessary.

ed sacco

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By JEANNIEMAC, November 18, 2009 at 5:12 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

MEDIA ADVISORY, Mar. 24 /Christian Newswire/—Some of you may have seen the major news story of the private plane that crashed into a Montana cemetery, killing 7 children and 7 adults.

But what the news sources fail to mention is that the Catholic Holy Cross Cemetery owned by Resurrection Cemetery Association in Butte - contains a memorial for local residents to pray the rosary, at the ‘Tomb of the Unborn’. This memorial, located a short distance west of the church, was erected as a dedication to all babies who have died because of abortion.

What else is the mainstream news not telling you? The family who died in the crash near the location of the abortion victim’s memorial, is the family of Irving ‘Bud’ Feldkamp, owner of the largest for-profit abortion chain in the nation.

Family Planning Associates was purchased four years ago by Irving Moore “Bud” Feldkamp III, owner of Allcare and Hospitality Dental Associates and CEO of Glen Helen Raceway Park in San Bernardino. The 17 California Family Planning clinics perform more abortions in the state than any other abortion provider - Planned Parenthood included - and they perform abortions through the first five months of pregnancy.

The plane went down on Sunday, killing two of Feldkamp’s daughters, two sons-in-law and five grandchildren along with the pilot and four family friends. The plane, a single-engine turboprop flown by Bud Summerfield of Highland, crashed into the Catholic cemetery and burst into flames, only 500 ft. from its landing destination. All aboard were killed.

The cause of the crash is a mystery. The pilot, who was a former military flier who logged over 2,000 miles, gave no indication to air traffic controllers that the aircraft was experiencing difficulty when he asked to divert to an airport in Butte. Witnesses report that the plane suddenly nosedived toward the ground with no apparent signs of a struggle. There was neither a cockpit voice recorder nor a flight data recorder onboard, and no radar clues into the planes final moments because the Butte airport is not equipped with a radar facility. Some speculate that the crash was due to ice on the wings, but this particular plane model has been tested for icy weather and experts have stated that ice being the cause is unlikely.


We warned him, for his children’s sake, to wash his hands of the innocent blood he assisted in spilling because, as Scripture warns, if “you did not hate bloodshed, bloodshed will pursue you”. (Ezekiel 35:6)

A news source states that Bud Feldkamp visited the site of the crash with his wife and their two surviving children on Monday. As they stood near the twisted and charred debris talking with investigators, light snow fell on the tarps that covered the remains of their children.

I don’t want to turn this tragic event into some creepy spiritual ‘I told you so’ moment, but I think of the time spent outside of Feldkamp’s - Pam Feldkamp laughing at the fetal development signs, Bud Feldkamp trying not to make eye contact as he got into his car with a small child in tow - and I think of the haunting words, ‘Think of your children.’ I wonder if those words were haunting Feldkamp as well as he stood in the snow among the remains of loved ones, just feet from the ‘Tomb of the Unborn’?

“I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Choose life, then.” (Deut. 30:19)

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By Peetawonkus, November 18, 2009 at 4:57 pm Link to this comment

JEANNIEMAC
Let me introduce you to something you said earlier…

“No one has mentioned my posting about the disastrous effects of homosexual activity.
Regarding the king of the abortion doctors, who owns many abortion mills:
There was an airplane crash near his mill. The plane landed near a cemetery with graves for aborted babies.
Among the dead were many of his family members.”

You come on this post spewing bizarre nonsense and hate and you expect to be treated with dignity and respect? People like you are a blight on this country. Crawl back under your Confederate rock and wait for the Rapture.

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By Dominick J., November 18, 2009 at 4:38 pm Link to this comment

Hi Reverend Lauren Unruh I don’t think the Catholic CHurch OR any Religious Right group/s pay any attention to what you posted.  How about sending it them ALL of them?

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By dominickj, November 18, 2009 at 4:34 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The Catholic Church and ALL religious rights groups are entranced with anything and everything that has to do with sex and peoples sex habits especially someone elses.  This seems to be prdominately on their minds.

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By stcfarms, November 18, 2009 at 4:27 pm Link to this comment

I wanted to join the church but I despise children and could not afford a full
frontal lobotomy…

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By Trailing Begonia, November 18, 2009 at 4:00 pm Link to this comment

Is anybody surprised that the Catholic church is putting sex ahead of anything else?  Nothing else can be expected from the members of the Church of St. Pedophelia.

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By JEANNIEMAC, November 18, 2009 at 3:55 pm Link to this comment

It appears that many posters here are followers of Saul Alinsky.  The “ridicule your opponent” tactic is wearing thin.

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By Peetawonkus, November 18, 2009 at 3:51 pm Link to this comment

Sorry, meant to say tri-state killing spree.

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By Peetawonkus, November 18, 2009 at 3:50 pm Link to this comment

JEANNIEMAC:
(Fore finger twirling at temple. Cuckoo clock hitting the hour.)
That’s some excruciatingly painful gibbergabber. You’re about one hallucination away from a tri-state killing, aren’t cha?

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By berniem, November 18, 2009 at 2:48 pm Link to this comment

jeanniemac: do these ideas come to you as visions or halucinations? Seems a girl named joan once heard voices telling her “things” which when acted on had her cooked by the very representatives of the “speaker” on whose behalf she acted. Apparently, the church says whatever it deems expeditious at the time and when it backfires starts sacreaming heresy, persecution, or whatever. By the way, is the church still fighting all those suits about that little priest/choirboy thing or all that stuff that happened in those Irish orphanages?

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By tyler, November 18, 2009 at 2:46 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

No organization, country or army has killed more people than the catholic church has throughout history.

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By JEANNIEMAC, November 18, 2009 at 2:27 pm Link to this comment

No one has mentioned my posting about the disastrous effects of homosexual activity.
Regarding the king of the abortion doctors, who owns many abortion mills:
There was an airplane crash near his mill. The plane landed near a cemetery with graves for aborted babies.
Among the dead were many of his family members.

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By Peetawonkus, November 18, 2009 at 12:48 pm Link to this comment

The Catholic Church should dress in ashes and rags and go down on its knees in front of world’s poor. It should give all it has, without conditions, to feed the hungry, clothe the shivering and house the homeless. The Pope should dress out of Target and the Vatican sold to clean up Superfund sites. Instead, since day one, the Catholic Church has been JesusCo. Christ took a whip and chased the money lenders out of the Temple. But they went around the block, climbed in a rear window of The Church…and have been there ever since.

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By berniem, November 18, 2009 at 12:12 pm Link to this comment

Why in the almost two millenia of it’s existence has the catholic church not been taken to task for it’s crimes against Humanity? This is not an indictment against misguided practioners of the faith who have done good(despite adhering to a reprehensible dogma)but of those silly old masquerading fools safely ensconced in the vatican where they can practice their ages-long pastime of self-enrichment and social control all in the name of superstition?

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By JEANNIEMAC, November 18, 2009 at 10:14 am Link to this comment

Sperm has an immuno suppressant. The human ova (egg. when one sperm enters, undergoes a change in the outer coating - preventing any further entry.
However, when sperm enters the blood stream, they enter blood cells, which have no protection, and mutate into a life form, the Human Immuno Virus, (HIV)
The antibodies, the white blood cells, are themselves overwhelmed. The body’s immune system fails, resulting in Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (AIDS). This leaves the body prey to any disease out there.
If individuals want to take this chance, so be it.
But, the Catholic Church will not condone it.

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By Peetawonkus, November 18, 2009 at 10:12 am Link to this comment

voice of bul**it

You can try and make Pouillon your poster child for your imaginary left-wing violence but, like most right-wingers, perish the thought you’d let facts get in the way of beliefs. What you neglect to mention is that Jim Pouillon was one of two people gunned down, and the gunman apparently tried for a third. The gunman, Harlan Drake, was a deranged individual and only in the fevered imaginations of Repugs could be described as a “left-winger.” His victims had nothing in common. The fact is, and it is a fact, that right-violence toward women in general, abortion providers and the clinics that provide those services have been part of a systematic pattern of right-wing terrorism since Roe vs. Wade.

Shiawassee County Prosecutor Randy Colbry says he doesn’t have any information that the abortion issue was the motivation for the slaying, saying that it is not his impression that the shooting was a hate crime or politically motivated.

Here’s what Pouillon’s son had to say about him: “I don’t think he really cared about the unborn,” said Dr. James M. Pouillon, a Grand Rapids podiatrist, who had not spoken to his father since 2001. “I don’t think he was really pro-life.”

But of course, don’t let any of this stand in the way of your right-wing ignorance, your Old Testament Christianity or your relentless Republican hypocrisy.

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By voice of truth, November 18, 2009 at 9:39 am Link to this comment

Peeta,

His name was Jim Pouillon, who lived in Michigan, and was an anti-abortion protester.  He would sit in his wheelchair, with oxygen tank, and he was called Jim the Sign Guy.  Until he was gunned down.

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By Hulk2008, November 18, 2009 at 9:33 am Link to this comment

To SteveM:

I am still puzzled about what you mean by “uniformed” in your posts.  Even the priests and nuns and brothers have chosen to forego clerical garb most of the time outside the liturgy. 

And re: your assessment of the site, to paraphrase the New Testament,
If thy Truthdig offends you, cut it off and cast it from Thee; better to enter eternity lame than having Truthdig and be cast into Gehenna.
  (i.e. NObody requires Thee to blog.)

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By Peetawonkus, November 18, 2009 at 9:24 am Link to this comment

I’m sorry, which “guy in the wheelchair” are you talking about?

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By oldog, November 18, 2009 at 9:19 am Link to this comment

The catholic church took a nosedive into fanaticism
with the election of Pope Benedict XVI in 2005. His
attempts to drag catholics (and everybody else) back to
the glory days of the inquisition are likely the death
knell of the Holy See. Unfortunately, the collateral
damage from this struggle will, as usual, destroy the
lives of the poor, the sick, and the less fortunate.

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By voice of truth, November 18, 2009 at 9:14 am Link to this comment

Peetawonkus

How exactly does your argument make the case for federal funding of abortions.  Oh, right, it doesn’t.  But that is typical of the bloggers on this site.  If an argument can’t be won, attack the writer, usually using some “fact” or argument that has no bearing on the original.  You’re a smart one.

And if you are going to memorialize abortion doctors, you should also remember the guy in the wheelchair who was killed and practically blown up by a left wing agitator, while wheelchair guy was simply excercising his right for peaceful protest.  Of course, in a perfect abortion world, wheelchair guy probably wouldn’t have even been born.

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By Peetawonkus, November 18, 2009 at 9:03 am Link to this comment

voice of (not so much)truth:
“So why should abortion be covered.  Anyone can still have one (well, any female), they just have to pay for it themselves.  A few hundred $$ of your own money seems like the least one can do to escape their own personal responsibilities.”

Wouldn’t it be nice if it were that simple. But, of course, only in right-wing land do simple solutions come so quickly. Perhaps more women would seek private solutions to pro-choice issues—but unfortunately the clinics that provide those services are threatened and/or bombed. When that fails, abortion providers are given death threats by Christians who love Jesus and babies. Or, as in Tiller’s case, gunned down in church in front of his family. When the right-wing doesn’t get what it wants at the ballot box, it resorts to terrorism in order to enforce a Taliban-like point of view on as many as possible. You can yak all you want about the “level of hatred of the left wing blogosphere”, but nobody on the Left is bombing your miserable institutions or assassinating your architects of misery.

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By voice of truth, November 18, 2009 at 8:22 am Link to this comment

As I see it, the government is the one that started this fracas.  The government has no place legislating that a private group must do things that are the complete antithesis of what it stands for.  That is just as deplorable as what many of you condemn as the Catholic Church inserting itself into policy discussion of the government.

From what I have read, the Church took a stance against Federal funding of abortion.  It didn’t “dictate” policy.  If you have a problem with the fact that many Democratic lawmakers went along with that, you should be after them, not the Church.

Besides, abortion, except in very rare instances, is a choice, as I am constantly told.  So why should a government run healthcare system pay for that?  It is elective.  It won’t pay for penile extenstions, or breast enlargements, or face lifts, which are also elective procedures based on choice.  So why should abortion be covered.  Anyone can still have one (well, any female), they just have to pay for it themselves.  A few hundred $$ of your own money seems like the least one can do to escape their own personal responsibilities.

Finally, I have to agree with SteveM.  The level of hatred of the left wing blogosphere for the Catholic Church is second only to the amazing anti-semitism exhibited on a daily basis by the same.  I don’t care if your views are distorted, that is what reasoned dialogue and debate are for, but the hypocrisy is something I can’t abide by (i.e., Left = tolerance)

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By csavage, November 18, 2009 at 7:49 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I agree, it’s time to tax the churches. From evangelical pastors campaigning from the pulpit to Catholic bishops writing legislation, the church has shown itself to be no more than a lobby for it’s political agenda, much like pharma and the insurance companies. Meanwhile, the mission of the church languishes. I also, again, laugh at the wingnuts with their claims of “hateful” posting. Hate to a liberal is the thinking the status quo is okay, while millions die. Hate to a wingnut is “you don’t agree with me so you’re hateful”. As for Catholism, if you want women pastors, married pastors, a more meanful role in your church, ability to change creed to match present times, you seriously need to remember this point came up about 400 years ago and launched a movement- It’s called the Protestant Reformation.

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By Gloria Picchetti, November 18, 2009 at 7:03 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It sounds as Catholic as possible.

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By Mike789, November 18, 2009 at 6:21 am Link to this comment

To side with those who would legislate against genetic make-up seems contrary to what the Church’s mission is as deemed by its Founder and in direct contradiction to its own policy of non-intervention with biology as per the Creator. We cannot alter biology to prevent suffering, but it’s a good thing to deny service based on that same biology.

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By Dominick J., November 18, 2009 at 4:28 am Link to this comment

Yes Aaron this site is called “TruthDig” and this article is the truth But it seems, and I’ll borrow a line from a movie here, “You can’t handle the truth!” The Catholic Bishops and the Pope along with the Religious Right are trying to turn this country in a Muslim Fundamentlist world and eventually they will get us to stone our women and murder Gays openly if they continue to gain power.  They already incite people to murder Abortion Doctors and create a very unhealthly place for the LBGT community because of their 2000+ old beliefs.
Religious organizations have NO place in our government and truly liberal/Progressive Religious Organizations DON’T want any government control at all.  They are the ones who, “They” meaning the religious right and Catholics, do NOT speak for them.

If we could get rid of the Grasp the Religious Right has on our government then we might be able to govern ourselves better.  SO when it comes time to elect another official into office ANY office maybe you should think twice to be sure they aren’t dragging their conservative, fundamental church along with them!

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By tyler, November 17, 2009 at 10:20 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Tax the catholic church like a corporation.

The massive amounts of money generated from those taxes would feed far more homeless people than they claim they do right now. 

This would also cause them to loose leverage over various branches of government and keep their blood-stained hands out of politics, THE WAY THE CONSTITUTION INTENDED.

Tax EVERY church.

The time of tax-free existence for churches needs to end.

See how many people stay faithful to religion when they don’t get their tax receipts for all the ‘donations’ they give to the churches.

More people have died in the supposed name of religion, than of any other cause combined, and just as a note, more have died at the hands of the catholic church, than any other cause.

Do away with publicized religion.

There is no problem with worshipping diety, just keep it in the home, and within the walls of the churches, mosques and sinagogues to benefit the person and the family, what its supposed to do.

Christians in america, remember, for every one of you who firmly believe that jesus is the only way to god, exaltation, what have you, there are 10 muslims who believe just as strongly, if not stronger, that the only way to god is through the teachings of the prophet muhammed. 

who is right and who is wrong?

who cares!

a believer of any religion will NEVER, i repeat, NEVER win an arguement with an atheist.  There simply is no proof of god.  its that simple.  So stop killing, discriminationg, judging in his name. 

it’s quite ridiculous really when you sit and think about it.

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By SteveM, November 17, 2009 at 5:18 pm Link to this comment

Hulk, your disjointed rejoinder was easy to forecast.

Feel free to self-reinforce stupid, rancid, vulgar, uniformed, inchoate, inane with your fellow wizened cognoscenti.

I’m out…

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By Hulk2008, November 17, 2009 at 4:59 pm Link to this comment

And many thanks to SteveM for making this site what he says it is.

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By SteveM, November 17, 2009 at 4:49 pm Link to this comment

What an intellectual car wreck.  Stupid, rancid, vulgar, uniformed, inchoate, inane.

This site is a mess…

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By Hulk2008, November 17, 2009 at 4:41 pm Link to this comment

To stcfarms:
    Gee.  Your statement might accidentally be construed as a “generality”. 
    Since statistically Catholics are part of the single largest church group in the US, you have doomed all to pedophilia.

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By stcfarms, November 17, 2009 at 4:30 pm Link to this comment

Enforce the pedophile laws and catholics will all be in prison.

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By Hulk2008, November 17, 2009 at 4:14 pm Link to this comment

For a number of years the mantra of the Catholic Church has been to emphasize “life giving”.  Thus, by extension, abortion and contraception become the antitheses of that premise. 
    Unfortunately, that extension has become a single-minded focus - nearly shutting out all other life topics - war, torture, capital punishment, starvation, and quality of life - those things that occur AFTER conception and birth. 
    It’s almost as if an embryo trumps all other living things of all ages - and free will, another critical tenet of The Church and theology, is laid aside.  Granted that one cannot know the will of an embryo - we presume all embryos want life; but it is certain that women can express themselves too.  I also imagine that the civilians killed in Afghanistan and Iraq might have expressed themselves if they were afforded a choice, 
    Why are conservatives, and The Church in particular so fired up about conception while ignoring the years after birth ?  American conservatives entirely reject any kind of social help to the poor unless it comes from a religious/charitable entity.  Moreover, they LOVE war and capital punishment and the Old Testament “eye for an eye” approach - to the extent it becomes “hands and feet and eyes and head for an eye”. 
  As for the Bishops, 
“you no play-a da game, you no make-a da rules.”

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By lmttd, November 17, 2009 at 3:40 pm Link to this comment

REPEAL the Tax Exempt Status of all churches / religious groups NOW!  Federal dollars should not be used to subsidize the political activities of such a hateful, anachronistic, repressive org as the Catholic Church or any other fundamentalist religious group attempting to impose its’  religious views as law of the land.  To preserve democracy, these Christian Taliban need to be removed off the public dole NOW!” They need money then let them raise it themselves and not off the backs of the taxpayers – period!

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By rollzone, November 17, 2009 at 10:55 am Link to this comment

hello. now lobbying, special interest groups, personal action committees are bad because they are religious. the popester has been dialoguing policy from his pulpit for generations. religion has no place in government, it belongs to the spirit and soul of the individual; and the impact upon their character. money should not interfere in the ideals of political decision. it should be banished from influencing our government.

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By Aaron Ortiz, November 17, 2009 at 10:45 am Link to this comment

This site is called Truthdig, but this article is very evidently biased. Should this trend continue, a better name for the site would be Mudfling or Dirtdig.

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By Jim Yell, November 17, 2009 at 8:59 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Atheists frequently work in food kitchens, they just don’t go around making it the focus of “patting themselves on the back, all the time”. Frequently they cooperate with whatever organization is offering services to the poor in their area. So enough of such foolishness as above.

Now let us realize the Pope has set aside the mask of inclusion that has been offered to the public during previous papal administration. The Pope is once again taking on a mantle familiar to us today in the Islamic Religion. We are so right we don’t have to play nice. We are so right that your rights don’t count. We are so right we can treat others like dirt.

What is revealed is the Catholic Church never really abandoned the their old conceit, the one that lead to massive wars that they try to blame on the none religeous. Even WWII, the German People had been given the obcene hatred of the Jews my careful Christina teaching by both Catholic and Protestent Cults. There really isn’t much more to say about these bunch of religous perverts, except to dismiss them as irrelavent.

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By SteveM, November 17, 2009 at 7:17 am Link to this comment

Regardless of the policy differences, the level of hating evidenced here by the über-tolerant Left is breath-taking.

If the people that post their ugly bile were hooked up to brain scan machines and shown pictures of their religiously motivated hate targets, I’m confident the outputs would mimic a study conducted similarly on neo-Nazis.

BTW, I don’t see these same superior people rushing off to start and staff hospitals, homeless shelters and soup kitchens in the name of atheistic compassion.

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By Reverend Lauren Unruh, November 17, 2009 at 7:15 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf

All IRC section 501(c)(3) organizations, including church­
es and religious organizations, must abide by certain rules:
? their net earnings may not inure to any private
shareholder or individual,
? they must not provide a substantial benefit to private
interests,
? they must not devote a substantial part of their
activities to attempting to influence legislation,
? they must not participate in, or intervene in, any
political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to)
any candidate for public office, and
? the organization’s purposes and activities may not
be illegal or violate fundamental public policy.

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By Bill, November 17, 2009 at 6:29 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Count me among the lucky ones who clearly saw the hypocrisy, rigid repression
and perversion of the Catholic church as early as the 6th grade in Catholic school
and became an ‘escaped catholic.’

Why anyone would expect any more from this corrupted moribund feudal
organization is beyond me. You will find far more freedom, peace and guilt free
happiness in a walk in your local park.

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By photoshock, November 17, 2009 at 5:15 am Link to this comment

As a Catholic who is recovering from the worship of the priesthood, I must confess, that this goes way beyond the idea of the separation of ‘church and state.’
For the Roman Catholic Church, to start dictating policy for the rest of the country, goes beyond the bounds of decency into the realm of dictatorship and censorship of ideas and morality. Morality, the church has none, their idea of morality is to hide the perpetrators of sexual abuse of men and women and especially children in the cloak of secrecy and bankruptcy of their own dioceses.
It is high time that this country make the church confess to their own sins and come clean on the idea of staying the hell out of the bedrooms and boardrooms of America. They must also stay out of the policy making business. If not we will become a banana republic, much like El Salvador, where the church complicit in the killings of thousands if not millions of its own citizens, sought to hide behind the cloak of secrecy,  their own murder of a bishop who spoke out for the poor and disenfranchised of that country.
Must we, in America put up with the same if not worse
behaviour from the leaders of a church that is no more than a legalized form of injustice? It is high time to kick these ass-holes to the curb and start to act responsibly on our own without the ‘morality’ teachings of a church drunk with their own power, this also includes those Protestant churches that during the shrub’s years flourished due to the influx of money under the aegis of ‘helping’ the poor. We are a country that values the separation of church and state and yet in the past 30 years this line has blurred and become fuzzy due to the lack of voices raised against the churches involvement in the political arena!

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By tommym, November 17, 2009 at 5:11 am Link to this comment

For years i have been watching president after president break one of our most cherished tenants, the seperation of church and state.  This instance provides us with the reasoning our great forefathers had in mind.  These sick delusional religious bastards are tainting our society with thier rediculous forced morals and now because of our unfettered support of these idiots the fates of thousands will be determined.  Isnt this why we left england to begin with.

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By Inherit The Wind, November 17, 2009 at 4:40 am Link to this comment

Public agencies should be barred from contracting for services with religious organizations.  If the Catholic Charities want to help people in DC, well, as long as they obey the law, that’s their business. But if they want to use their contracts to DICTATE law, well, that’s a violation of the Establishment Clause and they may be criminally liable.

As for their meddling in politics directly…It’s still a free country and we still elect shills who are always looking to win the next election.  If the C/C can influence its members in elections, than THAT is on each church-goer’s head.  They do not HAVE to vote as the Church says.

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By WykydRed, November 17, 2009 at 4:10 am Link to this comment

Christ, what a shocker, huh? Tell this “church” to pack its shit and take off. This IS typical Catholic strong-arming so it is waaaaaay past time for all government to tell religion to yark off.

How to do this without taking it out on all the people the Catholics want to bury just to get their way? STOP all this “faith-based” money grubbing. Yank it all. And, since most of the volunteers doing the actual work seem to be from the LGBT team, give the money to THEM to do the work they have been doing! Trust me, they’re organized. Can get someone to head the thing and dispense the work and the cash. And there will be less stealing…er, I mean “deferment of funds” with the LGBT in charge. Why hardly one thin dime at all. With the “Church” not taking it’s cut, I don’t doubt more people will be fed and maybe even kids will learn some badly needed sexual information programs that tell them more than “Just don’t do it!” that may just lead to better lives for everyone involved, although it may bring about less children to adopt and less girls having to be demeaned and scared and browbeaten into accepting their “lots in life”.

Things improve when “churches” leave. Every bit of the government should be ashamed - and removed from office - for giving anything to these “faith based” assholes.

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By Howie Bledsoe, November 17, 2009 at 2:44 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Why in hell would GLBT folks dovolunteer work for these guys? talk about sleeping with the enemy!
Anyway, the only really unnatural sexual preference is forced abstinence.

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