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Calling All Future-Eaters

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Posted on Jul 19, 2010
AP / Maya Hitij

“Melting Men,” a series of art installations created by Brazilian artist Nele Azevedo, has been adopted by environmentalists around the world to raise awareness of global warming.


Q & A - Live Chat with Chris Hedges


A live Q & A session related to this column took place on July 21, 2010 at 11:00 am PT.

Click here to view the transcript.


By Chris Hedges

(Page 2)

Copenhagen was perhaps the last chance to save ourselves. Barack Obama and the other leaders of the industrialized nations blew it. Radical climate change is certain. It is only a question now of how bad it will become. The engines of climate change will, climate scientists have warned, soon create a domino effect that could thrust the Earth into a chaotic state for thousands of years before it regains equilibrium. “Whether human beings would still be a force on the planet, or even survive, is a moot point,” Hamilton writes. “One thing is certain: there will be far fewer of us.”

We have fallen prey to the illusion that we can modify and control our environment, that human ingenuity ensures the inevitability of human progress and that our secular god of science will save us. The “intoxicating belief that we can conquer all has come up against a greater force, the Earth itself,” Hamilton writes. “The prospect of runaway climate change challenges our technological hubris, our Enlightenment faith in reason and the whole modernist project. The Earth may soon demonstrate that, ultimately, it cannot be tamed and that the human urge to master nature has only roused a slumbering beast.”

We face a terrible political truth. Those who hold power will not act with the urgency required to protect human life and the ecosystem. Decisions about the fate of the planet and human civilization are in the hands of moral and intellectual trolls such as BP’s Tony Hayward. These political and corporate masters are driven by a craven desire to accumulate wealth at the expense of human life. They do this in the Gulf of Mexico. They do this in the southern Chinese province of Guangdong, where the export-oriented industry is booming. China’s transformation into totalitarian capitalism, done so world markets can be flooded with cheap consumer goods, is contributing to a dramatic rise in carbon dioxide emissions, which in China are expected to more than double by 2030, from a little over 5 billion metric tons to just under 12 billion. 

This degradation of the planet by corporations is accompanied by a degradation of human beings. In the factories in Guangdong we see the face of our adversaries. The sociologist Ching Kwan Lee found “satanic mills” in China’s industrial southeast that run “at such a nerve-racking pace that worker’s physical limits and bodily strength are put to the test on a daily basis.” Some employees put in workdays of 14 to 16 hours with no rest day during the month until payday. In these factories it is normal for an employee to work 400 hours or more a month, especially those in the garment industry. Most workers, Lee found, endure unpaid wages, illegal deductions and substandard wage rates. They are often physically abused at work and do not receive compensation if they are injured on the job. Every year a dozen or more workers die from overwork in the city of Shenzhen alone. In Lee’s words, the working conditions “go beyond the Marxist notions of exploitation and alienation.” A survey published in 2003 by the official China News Agency, cited in Lee’s book “Against the Law: Labor Protests in China’s Rustbelt and Sunbelt,” found that three in four migrant workers had trouble collecting their pay. Each year scores of workers threaten to commit suicide, Lee writes, by jumping off high-rises or setting themselves on fire over unpaid wages. “If getting paid for one’s labor is a fundamental feature of capitalist employment relations, strictly speaking many Chinese workers are not yet laborers,” Lee writes.

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The leaders of these corporations now determine our fate. They are not endowed with human decency or compassion. Yet their lobbyists make the laws. Their public relations firms craft the propaganda and trivia pumped out through systems of mass communication. Their money determines elections. Their greed turns workers into global serfs and our planet into a wasteland.

As climate change advances, we will face a choice between obeying the rules put in place by corporations or rebellion. Those who work human beings to death in overcrowded factories in China and turn the Gulf of Mexico into a dead zone are the enemy. They serve systems of death. They cannot be reformed or trusted.

The climate crisis is a political crisis. We will either defy the corporate elite, which will mean civil disobedience, a rejection of traditional politics for a new radicalism and the systematic breaking of laws, or see ourselves consumed. Time is not on our side. The longer we wait, the more assured our destruction becomes. The future, if we remain passive, will be wrested from us by events. Our moral obligation is not to structures of power, but life.


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MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, August 10, 2010 at 9:58 am Link to this comment

When the Conservative Bush administration was in power, unions were undermined to the extent that they could do nothing of benefit causing labor wages to be cut, but now that there is a President on the Liberal side of the spectrum, unions are opening up and doing what they can to be of benefit to the populace, and community has been organizing all over the nation to be beneficial to the populace, but it has been a total of over 32 years of Conservative REPUBLICAN RULE, with Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II making detrimental legislation that the Obama administration will not have time to change during his administration, but it is apparent change has begun and that greater change is coming.

During the Conservative Right-Wing Bush administration years of conservatism, community organization was undermined to the extent that community gardens within cities were destroyed, because the people in the area who worked and made the gardens were getting too much benefit from their labor, and that could not be allowed, as it may spread and others will begin gardening; but, in comparison, as soon as the Left-Wing got into office, community gardening was brought back on the scene, and the First Lady Michelle Obama made a garden at the White House as an example to the populace, which would NEVER have happened under the Conservative Right-Wing Bush administration.

Left-Wing Community Gardening is now encouraged all over the United States by the Obama administration and they want it to spread.  Gardening as a means of helping with the COMMUNITY food supply in depressed times was SQUELCHED by the Conservative REPUBLICAN Bush administration and would NEVER have been possible if the Left-Wing Obama administration had not have been able to get control of the government.  No Conservative Right-Wing government cares whether or not the populace have fresh vegetables, as they feel the U.S.D.A. commodities of oats, beans, rice and dry milk that they have taken away from the populace, as price supports for private business interests, are good enough for the populace.

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By elisalouisa, August 9, 2010 at 9:57 pm Link to this comment

Surprising Menecis to see that you view life as various shades of gray. You certainly do not give that impression when you speak of the bulk of blubber that overweight women carry (another indication of your bias against women) or ridicule those who meditate and care for the spirit within. Chris Hedges, as Sodium-Na puts it on another thread, is the CONSCIENTIOUS SOUL not only of America, but what is decent in all humanity. Turncoat Hitchens has joined the neocons, and desecrates Mother Teresa’s memory by calling her defamatory names the kindest of which is an old hag.  Conservatives pushed Mother Teresa in the limelight to show how charity and not government funds could solve many problems.  Being from a country that had a far left government since 1948 also was a factor in this Catholic nun receiving many awards.  She chose to make helping the poor her life work. Choice, that’s what women’s lib is all about. Chris Hitchens degrades her memory for personal gain and his verbal abuse of such a woman proves that he is a woman’s libber in name only.  Outrageous statements, rarely true, are what turncoat Hitchens is all about. How very sad.
No quotes from famous people or videos are needed to further strengthen my comments. No overkill. Just the facts.

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By nemesis2010, August 9, 2010 at 3:01 pm Link to this comment

@ Elisha:

Cooper Anderson: What do you think about that, that there are people praying for you?

Hitchens: There are people who are praying for me to suffer and die. They have lavish websites relishing my… and then there are people, much more numerous I must say… um… and nicer… who are praying that either I get better or that I… um… that I redeem myself… that I make peace with the almighty. That my soul get saved even if my wrethched carcass does not. Umm… and some pray for both. And in fact the 20th of September has been designated everyone pray for Hitchens day on one website… in case you want to mark your calendar for that. I shall not be taking part in that.

Cooper Anderson: So you don’t pray at all?

Hitchens: No! No; all that’s meaningless to me. I don’t think souls or bodies can be changed by incantation. Or anything else by the way… but I say if it makes you feel better then you have my blessing. Listen well to his very last statement.

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/05/hitchens-on-cancer-diagnosis-why-not-me/

With this I bid you adieu! (On this article.)

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By nemesis2010, August 9, 2010 at 2:59 pm Link to this comment

By MarthaA, August 6 at 10:58 pm

”I am of the opinion there are additives in the food that cause people to get hooked on food.”

Precisely! Now think about that. The key is the fifth word. Then you have to consider those of us who eat and aren’t hooked. Eating well and exercise are choices!

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By nemesis2010, August 9, 2010 at 2:57 pm Link to this comment

I.

By elisalouisa, August 5 at 9:10 pm

”They reflect my views about Hitchens and his turncoat attitude.”

Saying Hitchens is amoral is stupid; it’s especially stupid coming from a female. Have you ever heard Hitchens’ speak about women?

Listen to Hitchens in the following video and let’s see if you still think him amoral. If you haven’t the stomach to listen to the entire 10 minutes listen from 5:15 to 6:10… surely you can bear to listen to reason for less than a minute.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA7uQPbie2M&NR=1

By elisalouisa, August 5 at 9:10 pm

”Putting it mildly, that is a completely erroneous statement.”

No it’s not. Your comments reek of self-appointed moral superiority and it’s the typical modus operandi of the religious who simply assume that because they believe in non-existent divine that they own the moral high ground. Well… you don’t!

Your praise of religion and the religious is rather biased. How ‘bout we add reality it? And I’m not even going to go back in history and rehash all the atrocities religion and the religious have perpetrated on themselves and others throughout human history while your divine(s) sat on his/her/its/their asses doing nothing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQpj2bFM7s0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuqRYS0K3UU&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuqRYS0K3UU&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dhg7I7ZZPYE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0utkTp7DTw&feature=related

I can paste links all day long.

By elisalouisa, August 5 at 9:10 pm

”Far be it from me to have the answers to your many questions. Our small peabrain cannot even begin to comprehend what is. Reason cannot go there. Accept this and just let go. In doing so you might even let go of some of that anger.”

Right you are because with religion—regardless of the label—reason has to be checked at the door. The metaphysical demands that so the stupid can be nourished unimpeded. A non-existent being cannot intervene.

” Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, controls people, deludes people.” - Mary Alice McKinney

”Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from god.” –Martin Luther

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By nemesis2010, August 9, 2010 at 2:53 pm Link to this comment

II:

By elisalouisa, August 5 at 9:10 pm

”They do not choose to be fat. You don’t know what else they carry Nemesis. What has taken place in their lives that makes them find comfort in food. Also, they may not have an automatic “I’m full” signal. You do not have access to their physical or mental condition to make such judgements.”

Ohhhhhh… help me jeebus!

By elisalouisa, August 5 at 9:10 pm

” By the way, why mention only women? Is this a bias on your part?”

Jeebus on my grilled cheese sandwich! It must be bias! It can only be bias! It cannot be that the individual I saw sitting on a motorized cart while eating an entire package of Oreo cookies was female.

A few days past my grandson was watching a program about a Navy cruiser and I observed—as I often do—that almost all of the men on that project were very overweight, I then wondered out loud that they were fat… even the military men. In the Marine Corps we had physical fitness test every few months and if you were overweight and unable to meet the standard they put your fat ass on a diet and PT regimen. Apparently, judging by what I saw on that program, the Navy either doesn’t have such a program or it’s one with much lower standards.

Now against whom is my supposed bias?

By elisalouisa, August 5 at 9:10 pm

”Also since you blame “My divine” for everything why not blame that Source for the excess fat on a woman’s body?”

When one’s legs are unable to support one’s body weight for more than a few minutes one is not suffering from “excess fat.” When one’s legs are unable to support one’s body weight one is grossly and dangerously obese.

Why would I blame a non-existent entity—be it god, consciousness, the source or whatever other tag mental midgets use—as the source of people’s overeating? That wouldn’t be rational.

There is an abundance of science out there that informs us of how our bodies work with regard to weight lost and gain. Yes, it goes without saying that there are some that suffer weight control ailments, but as a percentage of the society I’d bet that that percentage is very low. The U.S.’s biggest problem is an overabundance of readily available foods —especially the high in fat and sweets. And we shouldn’t fail to mention the sedentary style of Americans that goes hand in hand with obesity.

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By nemesis2010, August 9, 2010 at 2:49 pm Link to this comment

III.

By elisalouisa, August 5 at 9:10 pm

”Also since you blame “My divine” for everything why not blame that Source for the excess fat on a woman’s body? This is not what the apathy that has invaded our land is about. If I had to choose one reason I would say msm. the people are
mesmerized continually watching the tube, namely Fox news. The fairly young who now are paid by the hour and have no benefits, those who have lost their homes, etc. are accepting. They do not see that this trend shall continue for that is what msm implies.”

Well elisa if nothing else you get a point for originality. I thought that I had heard just about everything blamed on the MSM but your “listening to Fox News makes you fat” claim is beyond the pale. Even my gelatin Virgin Marys in the fridge are weeping blood on that one.

http://img.wonderhowto.com/images/gfx/gallery/l634148106337039759.jpg

Does watching MSNBC make one skinny?

By elisalouisa, August 5 at 9:10 pm

” That news. You just told me that Americans simply aren’t that unhappy. To quote: “When your belly is full and your basic needs are met you simply aren’t in a mood to upset the apple cart.” My grandchildren should know that. Getting back to the point, fearing people are not happy people. Fact is they should fear but they don’t know enough to fear.”

One of the serious problems with believers in superstition is that they judge everything dualistically. It’s the evil vs. good mind set. Everything is good or evil, left or right, up or down. There’s never any room for other possibilities. It can’t ever be—although life is—different shades of gray.

The word I used was content. The index is called the “Happy Index.” There are degrees of contentment just as there are degrees of fear. Fear can also be used to indicate a state of uncertainty. You can fear the uncertainty of the future and still be content with your life in the present. Usually the fear has more than just a little to do with the uncertainty about one’s personal future—perhaps it’ll change for the worse rather than remain the same or better. 

It’s also possible to be content—also happy—with different aspects of one’s life all at the same time. Can’t it be that one can be content that one at least has a job while simultaneously saddened about the low prospects of finding a better one?

The Danes are consistently #1 on the Happy Index. Why is that? Well, there isn’t any single reason why. The reasons are manifold and I don’t doubt that being a fairly homogenous people plays a big part in that happiness factor. But even though they are consistently #1 on the happiness index does not mean that they don’t have fears or that all are as content or happy as they possibly can be. Good is not as good as better!

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MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, August 8, 2010 at 9:38 am Link to this comment

elisalouisa, August 8 at 10:55 am,

The foodaholic is hooked on sugar and fat, which is similar to nicotine and alcohol, or any other drug. 

Foodaholics need to get off sugar and fat, but when you’re hooked it seems to be an insurmountable task and television ads praise sugar and fat. 

It appears now, finally, that natural stevia is the way to sweeten without sugar, and hopefully there will be foods made with Stevia that will be a benefit.

The drug war should be on sugar and fat production and distribution, but the United States is a Private Capitalist country interested only in profit, and there is private profit in sugar and fat; therefore, conservative legislatures only see marijuana as the problem, while more citizens of the United States have died from sugar and fat than any other drug, including nicotine and alcohol.

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By elisalouisa, August 8, 2010 at 6:55 am Link to this comment

The fact that she was continually sucking on a straw that led to a good sized cup topped with chocolate sprinkled whipped cream sent a message loud and clear.

Before me was a living specimen of an American as described by some on this thread.

 

What we ingest is a good part of who we are Martha along with heredity and also working to develop a central core similar to the man that rainwave describes in his August 6 at 12:05 am post. 

While food shopping yesterday a woman whizzed by me in of those carts for the disabled as Nemesis calls them. I normally turn the other way when this occurs not wishing to embarrass those who are in such need. Wanting to know if and perhaps even wishing to prove Nemesis wrong grin as to if such a mode of transportation was really necessary in all cases, my personal survey of scooter riders in supermarkets started right then. I noticed that the scooter woman was on the young end of midlife and from the look on her face one of the happy Americans described on this thread. She stopped at the meat counter where thick, juicy steaks not lacking in fat were on display. Then I noticed that there attached to her mouth was a straw which she did not set free even as she leaned over to look and choose among the bountiful amount steaks
set before her. The straw led to a cup with a circular top. I leaned over as if to look at the same steaks, a smokescreen as I was really looking at the contents of her ample sized cup. There before my eyes was whipped cream sprinkled with chocolate on top. I had to assume the liquid part under the whipped cream was also loaded with calories. Before me was a living specimen of an American as described by some on this thread. In looking back I should have taken the time to watch her finish her shopping and get in the car to confirm my suspicions that her need for that scooter was not really in the physical realm. Time was limited thus I did not. The fact that she was continually sucking on a straw that led to a good sized cup topped with chocolate sprinkled whipped cream sent a message loud and clear. Can we educate such people?

I don’t know.

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MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, August 6, 2010 at 6:58 pm Link to this comment

nemesis2010, August 5 at 5:49 pm,

I am of the opinion there are additives in the food that cause people to get hooked on food.

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By elisalouisa, August 6, 2010 at 8:27 am Link to this comment

In revisiting I don’t Believe in Atheists article in Salon (link provided in my August 5 at 9:10 pm post) I can more understand why Christopher Hitchens makes reference to the many prayer groups that along with his doctors are part of his cancer recovery team.

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By elisalouisa, August 5, 2010 at 9:31 pm Link to this comment

Of course you are correct in what you say rainwave,as far as it goes. When I say that some may not have a “stomach is full”  signal, for want of a better term, I speak from personal experience. When I was pregnant I seemed to have an endless capacity for food intake. My senses as to taste and aroma were very keen. When I realized what was happening I consciously limited my food intake
determined to succeed.  I would hate to fight that fight my whole life. Physically and mentally we are not all similar in our abilities.

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rainwave's avatar

By rainwave, August 5, 2010 at 8:05 pm Link to this comment

elisalouisa,says

“They do not choose to be fat. You don’t know what else they carry Nemesis.”
_____
We never loose the power of choice unless we choose to. We are self determined through our choices and actions (unless you are a animal). Not by our genes,or past or how the world treats us. They can be very influential,but they do not determine in the end. 

I once met a man who was at the Hanoi Hilton (Vietnam pow camp). Even after he was stripped of his clothes, told to sleep on a cold floor,made to eat what ever crawled in for the night, and suffered with excruciating pain from gang green he CHOOSE to keep is internal dignity-something the guards could never determine. So when you say they have “I’m full” signal you are implying victimization and blame which gives way to dis-empowerment and finely they give up. Nations do the same thing on a larger scale.

Between a situation and response to that situation there is a space ,no matter what size, and in that space is the freedom to choose what to do about it.

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By elisalouisa, August 5, 2010 at 5:17 pm Link to this comment

Part II
Nemesis:I’ve seen women so goddamned obese that rather than carry that bulk of blubber walking down the aisle in a super market they opt to use those little carts for the disabled.</i>

elisa:They do not choose to be fat. You don’t know what else they carry Nemesis. What has taken place in their lives that makes them find comfort in food. Also, they may not have an automatic “I’m full” signal. You do not have access to their physical or mental condition to make such judgements. By the way, why mention only women? Is this a bias on your part? Also since you blame “My divine” for everything why not blame that Source for the excess fat on a woman’s body? This is not what the apathy that has invaded our land is about. If I had to choose one reason I would say msm. the people are
mesmerized continually watching the tube, namely Fox news. The fairly young who now are paid by the hour and have no benefits, those who have lost their homes, etc. are accepting. They do not see that this trend shall continue for that is what msm implies.

Nemesis: Our society doesn’t need to get in touch with itself .  .  . it needs to stop fearing and go on a diet.

elisa: That news. You just told me that Americans simply aren’t that unhappy. To quote: “When your belly is full and your basic needs are met you simply aren’t in a mood to upset the apple cart.” My grandchildren should know that. Getting back to the point, fearing people are not happy people. Fact
is they should fear but they don’t know enough to fear.

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By elisalouisa, August 5, 2010 at 5:10 pm Link to this comment

Nemesis: I’m glad you made those comments (re Hitchens’ comments) because they are indicative of the desperation of believer to grab at any straw in the hope that it might vindicate their beliefs in superstition.
elisa:  Vindication is not my game, least of all with amoral Hitchens as my vindicator. Read my comments more closely. They reflect my views about Hitchens and his turncoat attitude. Will he turn again? We shall see.

Salon article titled I don’t Believe in Atheists.” Hedges is being interviewed:
Interviewer: Do you think Hitchens really believes what he writes?
Hedges: “I think he’s completely amoral. I think he doesn’t have a moral core. I think he doesn’t believe anything. What’s good for Christopher Hitchens is about as moral as he gets.”

Nemesis:Your continued use of the term “organized religion” is a perfect example of the mind set of the religious and how religious dogma convinces individuals that they are superior to others. It is your method for setting yourself—and those of a like mind—apart from “those others.” That’s the history of religion and belief in superstition.
elisa: Putting it mildly, that is a completely erroneous statement. Organized religion gets it done. It is the Salvation Army stepping in there in time of need, the AFSC against war, The Catholic Worker battling poverty in the slum section
of New York and Los Angeles, I could go on and on. People in need such as the homeless often go to the nearest church or temple when they are down and out. The opposite of organized religion is not “those others” as you put it, the opposite is “unorganized” people who are spiritually inclined but are not part of an organization.

Nemesis: I have religious friends telling me they’re praying for me all the time.
I just nod and smile it’s courtesy…once alone I laugh hysterically.
elisa: On this one you’re right on target.

Nemesis:Let’s see your prayer provide food for the 35,000 humans that die every day from hunger and malnutrition. Let’s see your all powerful whatever cure the many millions of sick and dying who—unlike Hitch—have no access to the world’s most advanced medical doctors, technicians, nurses and hospitals.  If your divine—whatever it is—is so great why must he or she or it have its minions attribute man’s achievements to him/her/it? It’s way past time that divine—whatever it is—get off his/her/its ass and actually accomplish something of its own accord.
elisa Far be it from me to have the answers to your many questions. Our small peabrain cannot even begin to comprehend what is. Reason cannot go there. Accept this and just let go. In doing so you might even let go of some of that anger.
http://www.salon.com/books/int/2008/03/13/chris_hedges/index.html

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By nemesis2010, August 5, 2010 at 1:53 pm Link to this comment

By elisalouisa, August 5 at 10:43 am

”Interesting because in his latest column in Salon (forgive me Chris Hedges for mentioning this) Mr. Hitchens does make reference to the many prayer groups that along with his doctors are part of his cancer recovery team. Mr. Hitchens goes on to say that he shall expound on this further next month. Will he use this situation to validate the above statement? Or will he thank those who care enough to pray for him? Perhaps a little of both. Or???”

I’m glad you made those comments because they are indicative of the desperation of believers to grab at any straw in the hope that it might vindicate their beliefs in superstition.

Dan Dennett suffered heart problems in 2006 and also had religious friends praying for him. In the linked video Dawkins, introducing him at the AAI conference reads from a letter that Dan penned about his illness and recovery. The video itself is rather long and though well worth the watch I doubt that you’ll want to watch it in its entirety. I do encourage that at the very least you listen to the first part (5:15) of Dawkins introduction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvJZQwy9dvE&feature=channel

If Hitch survives this thing it will not be due to prayers to a non-existent deity… whether he believes that or not. If he should be fortunate enough to survive it will be due to all of the advances in biology, chemistry, and all of the other associated sciences. These are beneficial advances that have been made while constantly fighting religion and the religious. They are all beneficial advances for mankind that were achieved in spite of religion. You can thank those men and women who have persevered in evolutionary studies while always fighting a rear guard action against the loony creationists for those advances.

Let’s see your prayer provide food for the 35,000 humans that die every day from hunger and malnutrition. Let’s see your all powerful whatever cure the many millions of sick and dying who—unlike Hitch—have no access to the world’s most advanced medical doctors, technicians, nurses and hospitals.  If your divine—whatever it is—is so great why must he or she or it have its minions attribute man’s achievements to him/her/it? It’s way past time that this divine—whatever it is—get off his/her/its ass and actually accomplish something of its own accord.


I have religious friends telling me they’re praying for me all the time. I just nod and smile… it’s courtesy… once alone I laugh hysterically!

Why don’t you wait to hear what Hitchens has to say before trying to imply prayer works? Should he die will you come here and admit that prayer is nothing more than a big waste of time?

This should interest you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjbWr3ODbAo&feature=channel

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By nemesis2010, August 5, 2010 at 1:49 pm Link to this comment

By MarthaA, August 4 at 4:41 pm

”Maybe for you.  The populace have no choice in anything, they have been made consumers, consuming worthless products. There are some who choose not to consume, but most go along to get along and get fat.”

Bullshit. There is almost always a choice. One can eat less and eat better. They get fat because of what they choose to put into their mouths. They get fat because they refuse to get up off that recliner except when they have to walk to the kitchen and get another beer or another bowl of cheese dip and tortilla chips. And that junk is anything but cheap. I’ve seen women so goddamned obese that rather than carry that bulk of blubber walking down the aisle in a super market they opt to use those little carts for the disabled. I’ve seen a woman eating Oreo cookies while doing her grocery shopping with her overly fat ass seated in on of those motorized carts. That’s choice! And that’s why Elisa sits there scratching her head wondering why there is such empathy in the land… it’s because the population is full of big fat lazy s-o-bees! People are content!

When it comes to food—as well as many other matters—America does not suffer from lack of alternatives.

Supernormal Stimuli:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzN-uIVkfjg&feature=channel

By MarthaA, August 4 at 4:41 pm

” Most of the Democrats are Democrats in name only.  Conservative is the Right arm of the Republican Party.”

You’re the mirror image of a republican! You’re no different than Rico, Suave! After 8 years driving the nation over a cliff he claims that George Bush isn’t a true conservative. And now all we hear are the democrats bemoaning the fact that their democrats aren’t really democrats!

With all of you before an election your guy is always the real deal but no sooner is your guy in office and kowtowing to his corporate masters… you start throwing out the disclaimers.

You—the constituencies—are all the same. The politicians—of all parties—are all the same. That’s why any significant change that may come about is always and first and foremost… beneficial to the ruling elite.

You can put that in your Veg-A-Matic and slice it and dice it to your heart’s content and there will still be overwhelming evidence to prove it true. You are all deluded and like that eternal hope in your non-existent sky daddies you’ll not realize any real results because the party that you believe in—just like your god—does not exist.

”Politics and the fate of mankind are formed by men without ideals and without greatness. Those who have greatness within them do not go in for politics.” –Albert Camus

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By nemesis2010, August 5, 2010 at 1:45 pm Link to this comment

By elisalouisa, August 4 at 10:28 am

”I did not realize and do not believe that this is an important part of our discussion.”

It isn’t except for that part which has to do with religion—the church—working hand in hand with the State as an agent of oppression.

As for the discussion I believe that I’ve presented adequate reasons why there appears to be such high empathy among the population. And that is, basically, that Americans simply aren’t that unhappy. When your belly is full and your basic needs are met you simply aren’t in a mood to upset the apple cart. Add to that the fact that America is an aged population. The twilight of one’s life is not when one decides to become a firebrand. 

By elisalouisa, August 4 at 10:28 am

”Organized religion Nemesis, is for the most part,  the component that hold it all together, the necessary well-intended do-good social hierachy that manages to accomplish just the opposite a good part of the time.”

Human compassion, love and altruistic action does not require approval of a divine. The fact is that more often than not altruistic action has to struggle against religion and the religious and takes place despite them. Humans aren’t good because they are religious; those religious who are good are good because they are good human beings. If one is altruistic because of a belief in some superstition then one is not altruistic.

Your continued use of the term “organized religion” is a perfect example of the mind set of the religious and how religious dogma convinces individuals that they are superior to others. It is your method for setting yourself—and those of a like mind—apart from “those others.” That’s the history of religion and belief in superstition.

It is easily inferred from this discussion, and at least two prior, that you have a rather mixed bag of mythological beliefs. We see a lot of that taking place today and it is due, in no small part, to skepticism and reason. There is absolutely no good reason to believe in a god. And it doesn’t matter what label is used… god, great spirit, universal consciousness, the one, the divine frog of the magic pond, etc. There is absolutely no good reason for believing in that bullshit while there are manifold reasons not to believe. And that is all that atheism is… simply not believing in superstition. It’s not a philosophy or an ideology.

It’s obvious from what you have revealed that you pick and choose those parts which you like from any number of different superstitions and try to live by that dogma that you have designed. We see the same happening with the members of “organized religions.” Why do you think there are as many as 35,000 different Christian sects and denominations? Muslims, Jews and Christians don’t believe all that bullshit written in those so-called holy scriptures any more than you do. They all know it’s bullshit! Especially the leaders, those in the pulpits! So they all pick and choose the parts that suit them. What we see is a gradual erosion of religious beliefs and it is due to skepticism and reason and knowledge obtained due to science. Do Jews stone homosexuals and people who work on the Sabbath? Hell no! If they did our secular laws would put them in prison where they belong. Do Christians go around burning witches and confiscating their property? When Muslims try to live according to their dogmas they reap death and destruction on their nations and peoples.

Our society doesn’t need to get in touch with itself… it needs to stop fearing and go on a diet.

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By elisalouisa, August 5, 2010 at 6:43 am Link to this comment

Nemesis July 26 at 5:53 pm, one of your umpteen quotes:
   
  “With all the continual prayer, why no results?” C. Hitchens

Interesting because in his latest column in Salon (forgive me Chris Hedges for mentioning this) Mr. Hitchens does make reference to the many prayer groups that along with his doctors are part of his cancer recovery team. Mr. Hitchens goes on to say that he shall expound on this further next month. Will he use this situation to validate the above statement? Or will he thank those who care enough to pray for him? Perhaps a little of both. Or???

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By MarthaA, August 4, 2010 at 12:41 pm Link to this comment

nemesis2010, August 3 at 9:40 pm,

“there is such a thing as CHOICE!” nemesis2010 August 3 9:40 pm

Maybe for you.  The populace have no choice in anything, they have been made consumers, consuming worthless products. There are some who choose not to consume, but most go along to get along and get fat.

Most of the Democrats are Democrats in name only.  Conservative is the Right arm of the Republican Party.

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By elisalouisa, August 4, 2010 at 6:28 am Link to this comment

  I have learned through personal experience
        that an open book can be more subject to damage
 
 

You last post closed with a question Nemesis. Why do you refuse to specify your religion? Does it embarrass you?. I did not realize and do not believe that this is an important part of our discussion. I have learned through personal experience that an open book can be more subject to damage. Ridicule is one such way to hurt, to such an extreme that it borders on sadism and although we are discussing religion on Truthdig I cannot help but feel this is somewhat out of line for that is not what Truthdig is about. However, since organized religion is so much a part of politics and a strong force in shaping politics perhaps I am wrong. Since you asked,Organized religion Nemesis, is for the most part,  the component that hold it all together, the necessary well-intended do-good social hierachy that manages to accomplish just the opposite a good part of the time. This includes various
branches of Christianity, Judaism, Islam and also other religions.When disaster strikes it is there, helping their own people and also others of another persuasion. It provides a coming together for families who have no other recourse for social outlet. The theme of most religions is the golden rule and
surprisingly enough, such organizations, regardless of the atrocities committed are convinced that their lifestyle follows the Golden Rule. Prior to the existence of government social programs, religious organizations did much of the good
work; feeding the hungry, caring for the poor and sick and also providing an education for those who were not part of upper society. Individuals with an inborn need to care for others became part of this complex which so shaped western civilization. As in any organization there is the negative and being human, this is what we dwell on, be it government or otherwise. Our government as well as organized religion, is now winding down, social programs are being trimmed, privatization of many government functions is on the uprise in bankrupt cities and states throughout the country. The concern is really about will replace these institutions.
Although I do attend religious services at times and may function within that frame, my beliefs are personal and kept to myself for reasons stated in my first paragraph. One belief I shall share with you is that we are not whole without
spiritual inner practice which can bring peace. This could be yoga, meditation/prayer, walking/hiking where the beauty of our earth is manifest. In the colloquial, Getting in touch with yourself, something our society is so in need of.

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By nemesis2010, August 3, 2010 at 5:40 pm Link to this comment

By MarthaA, August 2 at 8:41 pm

”I think the populace in the United States of America are being killed off by worthless food, worthless medical, and no jobs, because all the jobs were outsourced to other nations and are not being replaced, because REPUBLICANS won’t allow it.”

I reiterate: You are missing the point! This discussion has nothing to do with the quality of food in the U.S. And there is such a thing as CHOICE! People are choosing what to stuff into their obese mouths! Those triple and quadruple chins are not there because a corporate master has a henchmen with a gun to their heads forcing them to eat 4,987 tons of nachos and cheese dip while watching sports or a bunch of no-talented fame-seekers sing and dance and try to convince everyone that they’re surviving on a desolate island without food and water while being taped.

Those 2/3s of humanity that are underfed and starving would love the opportunity to bitch about cheese dips with full bellies and basic needs met!

You consistently whine and piss and moan about the republicans when what you should be doing is whining and pissing and moaning about democrats. They—like republicans before them—have control of the Executive, and both Houses of Congress and you (3rd person) are as much a bunch of sold out elitists’-ass-kissing scum-baggers as the republicans! The only [B]change the democrat majority of all 3 branches of has brought that nation is that the democrats get to stand ahead of republicans in the line to kiss corporate and ruling elite ass! Ohh… I almost forgot… they’re also first in line to drop their pants and bend over! 

When republicans had control they whined, pissed, and moaned and blamed the democrats as the reason they couldn’t get anything accomplished except for anything that benefitted Big Corp and the ruling elite. Now that the democrats have control they whine, piss, and moan and blame the republicans as being the reason that they can’t get anything accomplished except for anything that benefits Big Corp and the ruling elite.

Democrats and republicans are two peas in the same pod! They are both equally full of shit and both as worthless as tits on a boar hog!

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By nemesis2010, August 3, 2010 at 5:37 pm Link to this comment

I.

By elisalouisa, August 3 at 11:04 am

”Bashing religion is the vogue now”

Speaking the truth about that scourge on humanity called religion is not bashing and speaking the truth about religion is not in vogue but rather too long overdue.

By elisalouisa, August 3 at 11:04 am

”Your big box contains all who believe in anything that is in the unknown realm, with those part of organized religion.”

 

If it is the unknown realm how can you or any other believer “know”?   

By elisalouisa, August 3 at 11:04 am

”that which cannot be reached by reason.”

Defined: Delusion.

By elisalouisa, August 3 at 11:04 am

”On what basis do you make this assumption?”

The total lack of evidence for any of the insane and bizarro world claims made by all religions and the adherents thereof.

By elisalouisa, August 3 at 11:04 am

” It does not take organized religion to suppress humanity. I would suggest that those who wish to suppress and control use organized religion as a tool.”

That’s right it doesn’t but oppression of the masses by the privileged is always made much easier when religion assumes it lofty position alongside the oppressors.

By elisalouisa, August 3 at 11:04 am

”The extreme right neocons have done this with the Jerry Falwells of the world. Such a union gave the power/elite control of our government, including the CIA, FBI, msm not to mention Congress and what formerly was our President.”

And the Saudi royal family does it in Arabia and the Iranian government does it with the Ayatollahs, the Pakistani government does it, the Indian government does it…

And communist governments like China and North Korea do it by making the State a god to be worshipped. In North Korea the head of State is worshipped as a divine. That includes the dead one!

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By nemesis2010, August 3, 2010 at 5:32 pm Link to this comment

II.

By elisalouisa, August 3 at 11:04 am

”you cannot place all who claim to be religious and those who seek to be part of what is unknown in the same category.”

Yes I can and do. The box is labeled “The Deluded” after which there are manifold subcategories to distinguish the different groups of believers and the many different groups within groups. In Christianity alone there are, reportedly, as many as 25 (low estimate) to 37 (high estimate) thousand different sects and denominations.

The box, as you can imagine, is huge.

By elisalouisa, August 3 at 11:04 am

”The experiences of the latter are not yours therefore your conclusion cannot be accepted on the basis that you do not have and clearly can never have all the information.”

When those supposed “experiences” counter the laws of physics I can very well know that what I’m hearing and what they are claiming is pure unadulterated bullshit. All religions—organized and not (whatever the hell you mean by that)—are guilty of exactly that sentiment as expressed in your comment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUB4j0n2UDU

By elisalouisa, August 3 at 11:04 am

”There are many sincere people of all faiths whose have devoted their lives to others in need. It is not the reward of an after life which motivates such people but an inner drive, yes one might even say an inner spirit to better our way of life.”

All good works—especially when religiously motivated—have reciprocity at the base of those good works and at the very least, feelings of self-gratification. It also lends to general feeling of superiority as demonstrated in your quote prior to this one. That I cannot possibly know. All religion allows for adherents to maintain feelings of exceptionism. That’s the reason history is filled with believers of like faiths, as well as those of differing faiths, slaughtering each other by the millions. And that includes your “eastern” religions like Hinduism and Buddhism. All the major religions today are “eastern” by the way. 

By elisalouisa, August 3 at 11:04 am

”You are throwing out the baby with the bath water Nemsis. Don’t do that.”

The baby in that water should have been aborted or still-born and the water was drawn from a cesspool. It not only should be thrown out, it should be handled and disposed of in much the same way as we handle and dispose of nuclear waste.

Why do you refuse to specify your religion? Does it embarrass you?

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By elisalouisa, August 3, 2010 at 7:04 am Link to this comment

        You are throwing out the baby
              with the bathwater

         

Bashing religion is the vogue now, placing those who have such beliefs on the defensive and in a position where they must respond to all the atrocities and less than acceptable decisions that have been part of organized religion through the many hundreds of years of our history. With this thought in mind
we shall go on to the boxes that you accuse me of having Nemesis, with the overtone that you are not so inclined. Not true. Your big box contains all who believe in anything that is in the unknown realm, with those part of organized religion.  There is complete disregard, even contempt, for those who have experienced what can be termed that which cannot be reached by reason. On what basis do you make this assumption? Because the State and organized Religion working hand in hand have for hundreds of years oppressed/oppresses the mass of humanity? It does not take organized religion to suppress humanity. I would suggest that those who wish to
suppress and control use organized religion as a tool. The extreme right neocons have done this with the Jerry Falwells of the world. Such a union gave the power/elite control of our government, including the CIA, FBI, msm not to mention Congress and what formerly was our President. I clearly see
that.
The cunning of man accomplished/is accomplishing this enormous feat which indeed shall/does influence our very existence. The fascist nature of this movement and the disregard for much of human life is evident to most who have removed the veil of illusion that msm weaves so well. I digress and am getting off the thrust of my message which is you cannot place all who claim to be religious and those who seek to be part of what is unknown in the same category. The experiences of the latter are not yours therefore your conclusion cannot be accepted on the basis that you do not have and clearly can never have all the information. There are many sincere people of all faiths whose have devoted their lives to others in need. It is not the reward of an after life which motivates such people but an inner drive, yes one might even say an inner spirit to better our way of life.  A great disservice is being done to such individuals of all religious persuasions who have done much for our society. Many faiths are seen only in the realm of extremism. This is not only true of followers of Islam but other religions as well. You are throwing out the baby with the bath water Nemsis. Don’t do that.

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By MarthaA, August 2, 2010 at 4:41 pm Link to this comment

nemesis2010, August 2 at 5:52 pm,

I think the populace in the United States of America are being killed off by worthless food, worthless medical, and no jobs, because all the jobs were outsourced to other nations and are not being replaced, because REPUBLICANS won’t allow it.

Insulin is a commodity that is being pushed for profit to diabetics, just like any other drug, teaching people to rely on insulin without controlling their fruit and starch consumption to keep their blood glucose levels under control; it’s OK, they should be happy, they can have whatever they want, just will have to take more insulin, but it will kill them off early, but if they like sweet fruits and starch, there is plenty of insulin, for a price, and what does it matter, one less member of the populace when they die.

Bernie Sanders: Rally the People

“This upper-crust of extremely wealthy families are hell-bent on destroying the democratic vision of a strong middle-class which has made the United States the envy of the world. In its place they are determined to create an oligarchy in which a small number of families control the economic and political life of our country.”

http://www.commondreams.org/video/2010/08/02-0

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By nemesis2010, August 2, 2010 at 1:52 pm Link to this comment

By MarthaA, August 1 at 9:51 pm

”Obesity because of all the McDonald’s/Windy’s type cheap food made with cheap products: empty nutrition flour starch, fat and sugar.  Food stamps don’t last long when one buys Romaine lettuce, asparagus, fat free/sugar free fruits and health foods, lean fish, and lean meats.”

You’re missing the point. The topic for which that statement was made has to do with why there exists such a high level of apathy—in the opinion of some—in the U.S. One major reason—IMO—is that people are having their basic needs met. They are full and have easy access to clean drinking water, food, clothing, shelter, and the basic necessities of life.

The WHO estimates 4 million human beings will die this year due to hunger and malnutrition. It is also estimated that 1/3 of the world’s population is well fed, 1/3 under fed and 1/3 is starving. Do you think that those 2/3s who are under fed and starving might refuse to change places with well fed Americans because some of the food doesn’t meet with your standards?

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By elisalouisa, August 2, 2010 at 5:53 am Link to this comment

Your August 2 at 2:00 am column does indeed contain words of wisdom MarthaA. Being a frugal shopper, I once frequented Low End Store as you call them. The quality in many instances was not acceptable and I came to the conclusion that one pays dearly for whatever is saved. I have also noticed that the grade of produce and meat in some food chains is not uniform in that their markets located in exclusive areas carry much better and fresher products than those located in low income areas even though the price charged is exactly the same.
Accidental? I don’t think so.

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By MarthaA, August 1, 2010 at 10:00 pm Link to this comment

elisalouisa, August 2 at 12:56 am,

It is difficult to revolt when even the young are going down with diabetes at a high rate from all the terrible food foisted off on the populace in the Low End Stores and restaurants. 

Americans are propagandized that we are all equal, while blatantly talking about High End Stores.  And the stores that aren’t High End Stores are, of course, Low End Stores that receive all the products and foods that aren’t acceptable for the High End Stores, and these foods and products IMHO may be to a large degree what stymies the populace into accepting whatever the status quo is, as there is no longer any control on what the populace receives.

It appears to me there was a plan that is being perpetuated by Conservatism’s Right-wing and the media to deceitfully demoralize the populace in every way in order for the populace to be made subservient, playing game shows, and watching numerous judges demoralize the populace for show while taking control of our country, like the deception of the Trojan Horse, but in the 21st Century, it’s bad food without regulation and television shows to keep the populace’s mind off what is in their best interest; therefore, the poor think they are Republican Conservatives when they vote; even though no Conservative politically cares anything about the populace.

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By elisalouisa, August 1, 2010 at 8:56 pm Link to this comment

I shall respond more fully in a day or two Nemesis, however, I did want to comment on the subject of obesity and more specifically, the causes.  Statistics can be misleading and also difficult to obtain. Your comments Martha as to why people are obese do have merit.
Heredity may also be a factor. Having good health after a certain age, one could say 35, does not come easy. Daily exercise and food intake that provides nutrition and also mental well being, are important. From a personal survey of derrieres during past travels I would have given Germany top honors in the obesity category. However, we are getting off track here for what
Nemesis was getting at I believe is that those who suffer from hunger are more likely to start a revolution. True. Another truism: Universities are centers for revolt. The young more aptly see the problems at hand and are reckless because of the subconscious immortality syndrome that only the young have. However, there is nary a peep from them or anyone else for that matter. Personally, I do not believe that happiness is on the rise in this country Nemesis. Again, who took the survey and how were the questions phrased? Even more important who did those who took the survey work for? Americans are more accepting of the way things are knowing there can be nothing else, is that happiness?  I’ll just settle for moments of joy and oh yes, a few carrot sticks.

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By MarthaA, August 1, 2010 at 5:51 pm Link to this comment

nemesis2010, August 1 at 5:17 pm,

“we still live in a nation where the poor, the most oppressed, and those most left out of that illusion called the American Dream are suffering obesity.” nemesis2010, August 1 at 5:17 pm

Obesity because of all the McDonald’s/Windy’s type cheap food made with cheap products: empty nutrition flour starch, fat and sugar.  Food stamps don’t last long when one buys Romaine lettuce, asparagus, fat free/sugar free fruits and health foods, lean fish, and lean meats.  Commodities are nearly all some form of starch, fat, or dried product.  It is difficult to not be obese with cheap starch, fat and sugar diets like these and being obese is far from being healthy.

It is amazing how much worthless starch, fat and sugar is foisted off on the populace in the United States.  It is no wonder the populace is fat; Twinkies and Ho, Ho’s should be outlawed, as well as almost all foods in the middle of the store.

It is apparent the Conservative intention is for the populace to suffer obesity as a means of population control.

Hopefully, there will be some liberals in the Obama administration who will turn the food situation in the United States around, because the Conservatives in any Republican administration will only make it worse.

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By nemesis2010, August 1, 2010 at 1:17 pm Link to this comment

I.

By elisalouisa, July 31 at 1:36 am

”Chris Hedges, in the paragraph you quote Pavlov’s Dog, is too hard on himself.”

No he wasn’t. He spoke the truth.

By elisalouisa, July 31 at 1:36 am

”As to why there is inaction and empty moral posturing I can only say that rainwave might have something when he mentions that Greece may have more people who are free of antidepressants than our country and this may account for the protests they have had.”

There isn’t a single answer to that question. IMO one major reason is that people in this country are not that unhappy. Happiness in the U.S. is on the rise. Another reason would be that many know that their protesting of the wars and the money and the economy is useless because the power-elite is simply too entrenched and owns this government outright.

As bad as our political and economic woes are elisa we still live in a nation where the poor, the most oppressed, and those most left out of that illusion called the American Dream are suffering obesity. In other words, they are well fed and fairly content –especially in comparison to poor in other parts of the world.

Also, there are still enough opportunities where one can become fairly well off if not filthy rich in the U.S. Even without a great education or any worthwhile talent! These things work against mass protest and people wanting to upset the apple cart. It’s simply the old “evil we know” being better than the “evil we don’t know.”

Greece is a very small nation of only an estimated 11.3 million citizens and very little opportunity. The U.S. is a nation of more than 325 million and ample opportunities still exist. It’s an apples and oranges comparison!

Has rainwave provided you with any evidence that there are less antidepressant users (proportionally) in Greece than in the U.S.? Corollary evidence is not proof of causality.

By elisalouisa, July 31 at 1:36 am

”why the continual bashing of religion. I dare say that many on Truthdig might have views similar to yours concerning religion but much to their credit, they also have tolerance.”

Religion has been a sacred cow for far too long and needs to be bashed and destroyed and flushed down the toilet. I made a true statement about the State and Religion working hand in hand in oppression of the mass of humanity.

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By nemesis2010, August 1, 2010 at 1:13 pm Link to this comment

II.

By elisalouisa, July 31 at 1:36 am

”… That is completely apart from what is personal in the spiritual realm.”
“This continual bashing of religion by whatever name, prevents discourse on the real problems we face…”

There is no spiritual realm. And my opinion of religion and the religious—regardless of which brand of lunacy—does not prevent discourse on the real problems we face or anything else. Reason is not based in myth.

Which brand of poison is yours? Is it the one where the world is seated on an elephant who stands on a turtle or is it the one where there are many universes and to truly see the cosmos as it really is one must have divyacak?us (divine eye) and whose awakened one’s conception and birth are even more miraculous than that of the mythical Jesus? (What is it about religion’s abhorrence of the vagina?) Perhaps your brand is one of the many New Age stews where they just mix and jumble whatever suits them? It doesn’t matter… it’s all bullshit!

By elisalouisa, July 31 at 1:36 am

”I would not have thought you would find Howard Zinn’s comments and views of interest.”

That’s because of your myopic world view. I don’t fit into any of your (3rd person) little boxes. I told you before that I even have several of Hedges’ books, as well as Noam Chomsky, Zinn, Chalmers Johnson, etc. etc. I once was given a Bill O’Reilly book and I must confess that I put the O’Reilly book on the shelf—without ever attempting to read it—until I finally threw it into the trash to make room for true literary works.

”Our species seems to face a kind of test toward which basic forces of history have been moving us for millennia…

…The world will reach a new equilibrium, at a level of organization higher than any past equilibrium. And the period we are now entering will, in retrospect, look like the storm before the calm.”

Or, on the other hand, we could blow up the world. Remember, even poppy seeds don’t always manage to blossom.”

Robert Wright, “Nonzero”

http://www.gangsofamerica.com/read.html

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By nemesis2010, August 1, 2010 at 1:11 pm Link to this comment

By rainwave, July 30 at 9:21 pm

”Well. Nemesis2010 is a little harsh on putting people in corners as he looks down and preaches from above.”

I find your comment more than just a little disagreeable. I’m in no pulpit and definitely not up, looking down on the “little people.” The fact that neither you nor anyone else can dispute what I’ve said speaks volumes. If you’re really reading Zinn—for the second time—I don’t have to cite all the historical evidence that proves what I’ve said valid because you should have enough references in Zinn’s work alone to keep you busy for quite a long time.

All I’ve done here and on other like articles is to remind people not to get overly excited over these doomsday scenarios and to consider the consequences before taking on what we called back in my day “The Man.”

Is it not wise to insist that anyone inciting you to riot be on the front lines? If said person is not on the front lines with you how are you to know that said person is not a government plant or insincere and exciting you and others to riot for his/her personal gain? Life isn’t a Hollywood movie with mood music and a happy ending. When “The Man” throws you into one of his filthy rape and torture dungeons your friends aren’t going to be thinking about you and demanding justice. You’ll be left alone to rot.

Let’s take another look at Hedges’ comments:

”The climate crisis is a political crisis. We will either defy the corporate elite, which will mean civil disobedience, a rejection of traditional politics for a new radicalism and the systematic breaking of laws, or see ourselves consumed.” –Chris Hedges

Do you notice the bold “WE” in that 2nd sentence? So ask Mr. Hedges if he plans to be consumed or defy the corporate elite by acts of civil disobedience and the systemic breaking of laws. Should he reply in favor of acts of civil disobedience and systemic breaking of laws ask him just what those acts are and what laws he’s disobeying. Based on his statement are these not valid questions?

”If I had to say to you what is the answer I would say massive bloodshed. I don’t really, honestly, deep down believe in political action. I think the system contracts and expands as it wants to. It accommodates these changes. I think the civil rights movement was an accommodation on the part of those who own the country. I think they see where their self-interests lie; they see a certain amount of freedom seems good. An illusion of liberty, give these people, give these people a voting day every year so that they’ll have the illusion of meaningless choice. Meaningless choice that we go like slaves and say: “Joy I voted!”

The limits of debate in this country are established before the debate even begins. And everyone else is marginalized and made to seem to be either communist or some sort of disloyal person… a kook… there’s a word. And now it conspiracy… see? They’ve made that something that should not be entertained for even a minute. That powerful people might get together and have a plan… Doesn’t happen! You’re a kook! You’re a conspiracy buff! So… the only way you cure that… death, bloodshed… I don’t advocate it… but I see that it’s really the only answer.” -George Carlin (interview with Wolf Blitzer)

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By elisalouisa, July 30, 2010 at 9:36 pm Link to this comment

It is reassuring to know that Pavlov’s Dog and rainwave are out there. Chris Hedges, in the paragraph you quote Pavlov’s Dog, is too hard on himself. Perhaps at some future time the reason for this
widespread cynicism will become more evident. I definitely do not see that it is a cloak for cowardice and impotence, rather, for those who gather information from msm the web of illusion has cast its spell. The middle and working class have lost so many battles. Each day those who are in a position to know, such as news commentators express amazement that the job situation or the economy has not shown more improvement. What a crock! The war in Afghanistan is treated with kid gloves by msm and the billions of dollars unaccounted for in Iraq barely raise an eye brow. As to why there is inaction
and empty moral posturing I can only say that rainwave might have something when he mentions that Greece may have more people who are free of antidepressants than our country and this may account for the protests they have had.
Nemesis why the continual bashing of religion. I dare say that many on Truthdig might have views similar to yours concerning religion but much to their credit, they also have tolerance.  Such views are personal for they make up your being. I do not deny that the ruling elite use the Church-religion as a
tool for control. That is completely apart from what is personal in the spiritual realm.  Your language leaves no doubt as to your disdain for those who do believe in that which may not be reached by reason even though many with such beliefs are not linked to religious organizations, Christianity, the Church and whatever else suits your fancy in that realm. Your conclusion that all who have such beliefs are dumbass apes that believe their suffering here means an eternity of bliss in a non existent afterlife is abhoring. Why this thorn in your flesh and such high ground on your part? Personal beliefs are just that.
Ridiculing meditation, prayer and other spiritual exercises that are more mental in a spiritual manner than physical is not the answer. Some in the orient believe that the world is all mind. I can just hear you now after reading that comment. What? Huh? Not for your categorized mental notebook, no room for open thought, right? This continual bashing of religion by whatever name, prevents discourse on the real problems we face.
Going on to another comment I find most exasperating Nemesis:
Should the mass of Homo sapiens finally cease to accept the GREAT LIE about non-existent creators, saviors, and afterlives where all wrong is righted, then the ruling elite had better haul ass to the high ground because their due will come a calling!
Yet, as the percentage of people who attend religious services declines, anger toward the power/elite has not increased.
Having great respect for Howard Zinn I have ordered Voices of a People’s History of the United States: Second Edition I look forward to reading it. Somehow, perhaps because of your insistence on discussing what you term the “dumbass apes” of the world I would not have thought you would find Howard
Zinn’s comments and views of interest.

Some comments you make do ring true such as : There has never been a time when civil disobedience has not had a consequence of long prison terms and worse. Never, never, never! Do you want change or not? The change is not
for the generation that achieves it but rather for future generations.

True, true, true. A comment that could and should be used in any protest demonstration.

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By rainwave, July 30, 2010 at 5:23 pm Link to this comment

“write”

opps

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By rainwave, July 30, 2010 at 5:21 pm Link to this comment

Well. Nemesis2010 is a little harsh on putting people in corners as he looks down and preaches from above. That being said,I think, for the most part he is talking through the marbling and getting to the prime of meat. I mean he is right with this new Happy-Tony Robbins-attitude of society and how it deals with the system. I am in the middle of reading Zinns history (second time) and how all the ruling tools in the corporate shed stayed in place when Nixon resigned.

Its easy for me to read and dissect all the atrocities my country and its umbrella group of the elite have done. Its easy for me to right on this blog and preach and complain. In the end, I get off the computer, go downstairs,eat some cereal with rice milk while I watch a movie on netflix. Do I have the balls to storm a government building like they did in Greece? Maybe. Or what about throwing Molotov cocktails at a investment bank in Athens? Probably not.

Nope we are all asleep and afraid. (I don’t speak for everyone in here, but Greece has more people without antidepressants than we do:)

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By nemesis2010, July 30, 2010 at 3:17 pm Link to this comment

I.

By elisalouisa, July 29 at 6:16 pm

”You can’t have too much respect for those who would revolt Nemesis, calling such people a mob tells it all.”

Well actually I simply used the term that “THEY” will be using to describe anyone seeking justice and a more egalitarian system. If the label “mob” upsets up what the hell are you and your revolutionary buddies going to do when “THEY” label you rift-raft, traitors, un-American, and the “dregs of the people”?

Is not Chris Hedges sounding the alarm? Is he not blowing the trumpet in Zion? I hold in very low esteem those that would agitate for action while looking for a place to hide. I raised the question before reading the Hedges’ quote posted by Pavlov’s Dog. In that quote Hedges admits that he is part and parcel of a class of intellectual eunuchs. Hedges is simply another one of many millions of so-called Christians that do any thing but follow the instructions of their supposed Christ. (Think camels and the eyes of needles here.)

They are all parrots for their particular power-elitism elisa.

I don’t think you have to be concerned about Chris Hedges’ meeting the same fate as Martin Luther King. Bwaaaaaa! Jeebus on a Ritz cracker! That’s rich!

By elisalouisa, July 29 at 6:16 pm

”As to the vulnerability of the ruling/elite, I don’t see it. Serious civil disobedience at this time would result in long prison terms and perhaps even worse.”

Wow! I’ve been telling you this for months while you and your friends have been sorely vexing me for daring to say that your “non-violent” actions will produce nothing but belly-busting laughter from the ruling elite and delight for the henchmen class as they tell stories of the crunching noises produced when cracking open the heads of protesters! Apparently some of what I said has found fallow ground and is now producing a crop.

There has never been a time when civil disobedience has not had a consequence of long prison terms and worse. Never, never, never! Do you want change or not? The change is not for the generation that achieves it but rather for future generations.

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By nemesis2010, July 30, 2010 at 3:14 pm Link to this comment

II.

By elisalouisa, July 29 at 6:16 pm

”they will use any and every means possible to maintain their strangle hold.  There is no soft belly concerning the powers-that-be. Or is it just well hidden?”

They always do.

The ruling elite fear the middle and lower classes every bit as much as you fear their henchmen class. If the poor and middle class ever united in a single pursuit to obliterate the ruling class they could wipe them out within weeks. The dilemma you face is in the numbers. The shear number of poor and middle class far outweigh that of the ruling elite and that’s your advantage. But it also presents you with the problem of how to get such a vast number of individuals to agree on anything. They, the ruling elite, know this and have used this dilemma to their advantage by ceding enough concessions to lower ranks, those of the middle classes, to encourage them to act as a hedge, a wall of protection, between the super-wealthy and those that they oppress most.

One of the most powerful tools that the super-wealthy have in their arsenal is the Church –religion. Convincing a bunch of dumbass apes that their suffering here means an eternity of bliss in a non-existent afterlife was no small achievement on the part of the Establishment. Should the mass of Homo sapiens finally cease to accept the GREAT LIE about non-existent creators, saviors, and afterlives where all wrong is righted, then the ruling elite had better haul ass to the high ground because their due will come a calling!

There’s also another little problem—besides the cowardice of most people—that you face; the happy factor. Most people are happier today. Even in the U.S. the happy index which had America placed at #21 in 2006, has risen and America is now the 16th happiest nation of people on the planet.

Politically speaking I think it is a fair assessment to say that most participants at Truthdig would fall into the lefty, progressive, or liberal classification. Yet I can’t help but wonder how many of you have read Zinn’s “A People’s History of the Unites States”. Judging from most comments that I’ve read I’d bet that at best only a very few have. I can’t help but wonder how one can label himself/herself a liberal, a socialist, a lefty, a progressive, etc. and not have taken the time to read an alternative view of American history. It’s beyond me! True revolutionaries are usually well-informed and have a profound knowledge of what is taking place politically.

Try this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWiBt-pqp0E

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By Ed Lytwak, July 30, 2010 at 6:20 am Link to this comment

Thank you elisalouisa for your comments on those who actively resist and especially your right-on comments about Chris Hedges.  Nemesis should read CH’s column “Liberal are Useless” especially the part about Dostoevsky’s mouse man.  Anyone who has suffered through this commentary string might also appreciate it. 

Let me quote Chris Hedges:
“I save my anger for our bankrupt liberal intelligentsia of which, sadly, I guess I am a member. Liberals are the defeated, self-absorbed Mouse Man in Dostoevsky’s “Notes From Underground.” They embrace cynicism, a cloak for their cowardice and impotence. They, like Dostoevsky’s depraved character, have come to believe that the “conscious inertia” of the underground surpasses all other forms of existence. They too use inaction and empty moral posturing, not to affect change but to engage in an orgy of self-adulation and self-pity. They too refuse to act or engage with anyone not cowering in the underground. This choice does not satisfy the Mouse Man, as it does not satisfy our liberal class, but neither has the strength to change. The gravest danger we face as a nation is not from the far right, although it may well inherit power, but from a bankrupt liberal class that has lost the will to fight and the moral courage to stand up for what it espouses.”

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By elisalouisa, July 29, 2010 at 2:16 pm Link to this comment

Sorry wooden gates, no fight here just dialogue which might provide some entertainment for the Peanut Gallery.
You can’t have too much respect for those who would revolt Nemesis, calling such people a mob tells it all. More than that, why would you expect Chris Hedges to lead such a group. Mr. Hedges gave up a successful career with the New York Times to be true to himself by in poetic prose to telling us
what msm will not. His many gifts do not include the oratorical skills of one such as Martin Luther King, much to his good fortunate for Mr. Hedges might have met the same fate.
As to Glenn Beck, due to a malfunction of my hand which uncontrollably grabs the remote when Beck’s comic face appears on the screen and then proceeds to click the power button off, I cannot reliably comment on his show. Prior to my hand impediment I did watch him for short periods and noticed an unparalleled spin capability. Glenn Beck is a parrot for the power/elite. Chris Hedges tells it the way it is, thus his exit from the New York Times and his columns on Truthdig, where there are no spins.
As to the vulnerability of the ruling/elite, I don’t see it. Serious civil disobedience at this time would result in long prison terms and perhaps even worse. Those accidental drones strikes in Afghanistan are most likely relatives of those who resist our occupation. Those in control are not jokers,
they will use any and every means possible to maintain their strangle hold.  There is no soft belly concerning the powers-that-be. Or is it just well hidden?
Perhaps this is more to your liking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHkmhlUOLvE

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By wooden gates, July 29, 2010 at 1:41 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Fight Fight Fight!! :p

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By nemesis2010, July 28, 2010 at 1:38 pm Link to this comment

By elisalouisa, July 28 at 10:30 am

”You berate me by telling me how I am all about being with non-existent sky daddies or becoming one with the Great Spirit, universe…”

I didn’t “berate” you. I was conversing with you in what I thought was a very jovial manner. I made a statement to you about “believers” in the metaphysical; a category into which you fall. But I wasn’t signaling you out.

We’ve been down this road before. I told you that there is absolutely no evidence of that so-called spark. Energy is measurable and there are specialists in those fields that have experimented and found absolutely nothing to indicate any spark or “consciousness” or “ego” following death. Until there is evidence…

By elisalouisa, July 28 at 10:30 am

”How would that come about? You are well aware of the weapons at their disposal. Wealth that is no longer with the middle class is now owned by the upper class and they use such monies to control our elections. They are embedded in government and finances. What do the American people have to fight them? Their jobs are gone and the most they can hope for is an extension of unemployment benefits. What a victory!”

There is nothing new under the sun. The same situations that we are facing today existed in times past. If there is no hope, why all the bitching? Accept your (<- 3rd person) fate and go quietly into that good night.

Perhaps the problem lies with you (<- 3rd person) who would have change. Have you (<- 2nd person) read what Hedges wrote?

”We will either defy the corporate elite, which will mean civil disobedience, a rejection of traditional politics for a new radicalism and the systematic breaking of laws, or see ourselves consumed.” –Chris Hedges

Once again I ask you: What is Hedges doing? Why isn’t he out leading the “mob” in acts of civil disobedience? What great sacrifices is he and those of his sort making? Is there much difference between what Hedges is doing and what Glen Beck is doing? Aren’t they both attempting to get the “little people” to mobilize in order to promote their political agendas?

Anomar also spoke of sacrifice and when I asked what sacrifices he/she was making there was no reply. Be very careful of those that would have you sacrifice for their well-being elisa.

Study your enemy! The ruling elite—despite the powerful weapons—are very vulnerable. If enough people took action they could bring the whole system down within a matter of weeks or months. The problem is their willingness to make the necessary sacrifices. Obviously they are not willing.

The answer for how is it to come about is right before your (3rd person) eyes. Ask yourselves: What did the Colonials do? The Colonials did not attack Britain and destroy the British government.

Read the “Declaration of Independence.” In the U.S. Declaration of Independence are the instructions of “what” to do and the “why” it is to be done. In Colonial history one finds the instructions of “how” to do it.

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By elisalouisa, July 28, 2010 at 6:30 am Link to this comment

Much of you say Nemesis is based on assumption. You berate me by telling me how I am all about being with non-existent sky daddies or becoming one with the Great Spirit, universe, etc. Worst of all you in your condescending way you put all who explore what can be termed in your view as unprovable in one category. Have I ever mentioned heaven? I have said that nothing is wasted in this universe. Nature recycles. The energy that is part of us, that spark goes on after death; after that there is the unknown, at least to me.  You do know.  One cannot help but wonder why you are so emphatic about criticizing those who do not agree with
you on this subject. Your persistence in quenching this aggravation might almost be compared to an itch in your crotch that you want to satisfy. One of your solutions to such an aggravation is “getting laid.” Do try to be more original.  My belief that there is an energy that is part of this universe also has
nothing to do with the super-weathy, the ruling elite.  You are correct is saying they will never change until they fear the consequences of not changing. How would that come about? You are well aware of the weapons at their disposal. Wealth that is no longer with the middle class is now owned by the upper class and they use such monies to control our elections. They are embedded in government and finances. What do the American people have to fight them? Their jobs are gone and the most they can hope for is an extension of unemployment benefits. What a victory!  In dealing with life there is always a
wild card, something unforeseen that really changes the course of destiny. Perhaps an invention, a new world or style of living. A planned situation may at times have a way of backfiring. That is only a comment, not a statement as to what may occur. Can we stop them? I have come to the conclusion in the last two years that we cannot, not unless there is a change in the tide and this is always a possibility. A more formidable enemy may be out there, I do not include the American people, based on recent actions, in this category.

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By nemesis2010, July 27, 2010 at 1:05 pm Link to this comment

By elisalouisa, July 26 at 9:34 pm

”My window is on the northside and my herbs get a glimpse of the sun when beginning to rise in the east. The stem actually turn and face the sun still low on the horizon, thus the illusion of a bow. Would you see such a moment in the same light?  The topography of much of the earth is beneficial to all life and sustains us. Our seasons are well planned and the result is an abundant harvest in the Fall.  So the universe is doing its best to make a home for homo sapiens. Homo sapiens do seem to have a “self destruct” inner gene that may well succeed for the earth is being poisoned as is the atmosphere.”

This is a perfect example of how most of you have distorted what I have said. The crux of my position has been for all of you to forget about this doomsday bullshit and to get a life. I even suggested to anomar that he/she try to get laid.

As for your “herbs”—all plants tend to lean toward the sun because of photosynthesis. That fusion machine, that star, called the sun can and many times is the cause of fatal skin cancers. We are here because the environment—of the earth, not the universe—reached a point where it was conducive to life. The universe is said to be about 13.7 billion years old and our planet about 4.5 billion years old. Modern man—Homo sapiens—has been around only about 175,000 years and it is estimated that about 98 to 99 percent of all creatures that have ever lived have long ago gone extinct—this very article is about the possible extinction of Homo sapiens. Just how are you defining “conducive”?

With respect to the gravity of population numbers…

”As an advanced civilization develops exponentially, the copious production of waste heat could dangerously raise the temperature of the atmosphere of the planet and pose climactic problems. Colonies of bacteria grow exponentially in a petri dish until they exhaust the food supply and literally drown in their own waste. Michio Kaku, “Parallel Worlds”

I strongly urge you and others to read at least the last three chapters (10, 11, and 12) of “Parallel Worlds” to get a really educated perspective on just what kind of universe it is in which we live. You don’t have to purchase the book just go out to a B&N or BAM, buy a cup of coffee, and sit down and read the three chapters. I suggest that you do it after partaking of some of that “herb” you are growing.

What I find fascinating about you metaphysical types is that the “end of the world” should be good news for you because you’re all about being with your respective non-existent sky daddies or becoming one with the Great Spirit, the universe, or the rock holding the door open and yet when faced with death instead of being happy you’re afraid to die! You all want to go to heaven but none of you look forward to dying—strange that.

The super-wealthy, the ruling elite, will never change until they fear the consequences of not changing. When their lives and wealth face extinction is when they’ll concede and even then only as much as they are forced to concede.

I’ve never been much of an Eagle’s fan either. I do thank you for mentioning them though because I’ve just realized that my Eagle’s Greatest Hits CD is missing.

As always, it is a pleasure to “rap” with ya!

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By elisalouisa, July 26, 2010 at 5:34 pm Link to this comment

The one sentence that stands out in your post Nemesis

                    I would laugh my a** off
                                         
                                      if it weren’t so sad.

True, true, true.

Along with quotes, your posts also offer unique utube video.  This time is Basil Marceux the Republican candidate for governor in Tennessee, a leading contender no less.  Your sense of humor is beginning to come through Nem. To prove that I am human and less than enlightened I shall confide only to you that if Basil Marceux agreed with me I would hastily retreat and realize it was time to rethink my outlook. Conversion is not my goal. If truth be told, there is no goal in my world. The word goal is language you toss around. Life is a dance, why must there be a goal?
As to your facts, If as you say the universe is not conducive to human life then why are we still here? As I see it the universe has done much to ensure that I live. Each morning as I look at my garden window above the sink I am
reminded of how good the universe is.  My window is on the northside and my herbs get a glimpse of the sun when beginning to rise in the east. The stem actually turn and face the sun still low on the horizon, thus the illusion of a bow. Would you see such a moment in the same light?  The topography of much of the earth is beneficial to all life and sustains us. Our seasons are well planned and the result is an abundant harvest in the Fall.  So the universe is doing its best to make a home for homo sapiens. Homo sapiens do seem to have a “self destruct” inner gene that may well succeed for the earth is being poisoned as is the atmosphere.  There is no end to the sadistic weapons that have been conceived and have been or soon will be put into use. Many, such as you, continually bring the population problem to the table. I say, the real problem is not the numbers, although that must be addressed, but the inner makeup of homo sapiens. In that sense the universe is indeed a dangerous place to live.
The power/elite by whatever name (superwealthy), are our biggest danger. Can we fight the Karl Roves and Dick Cheneys and neo-cons who call the shots? Who knows? I am well aware of their cunning and the lengths they will go to to achieve their goals. Would I match them, if I could, each step of the way? No. For then I would not be who I am.
Added note:Feelings is a little much for me also, just barely. How about the Eagles and Take it Easy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPospvRqP_s&feature=related

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By nemesis2010, July 26, 2010 at 1:53 pm Link to this comment

By elisalouisa, July 24 at 8:00 pm

”In your quote of loneagle’s post you omitted the last two sentences. The last sentence should be especially considered. Most of us are searching. Some, like you, have all the answers.”

That’s interesting because to me the writing is so bad that the comment is almost incomprehensible as well as absurd.

”If you have ever had the epiphanic, ecstatic experience of harmony with all of everything, you know already that is was not through resistance that you got there, but rather through surrender.”

I’d laugh my ass of if it wasn’t so sad. Remember one of the worst songs of all time, “Feelings”? That’s what runs through my mind when I read sappy metaphysical crap like that. 

Not only have I never claimed to have all the answers, I’ve on more than one occasion admitted to not having the answers. But we all know that that comment was a sarcastic little dig by someone who sees herself as an “enlightened one” but who just can’t manage to overcome that temptation to hit back. That’s good because it not only helps prove my point but gives me a glimmer of hope that there still might be hope for you yet.

I see that you haven’t lost your skill of dodging the bullet and refusing to answer questions about your “enlightened” world view and especially those that ask just how the hell do you and those of your mindset plan to accomplish such fantastic goals.

The facts are these: The world is a dangerous place in which to live. The universe is not conducive to human life. Homo sapiens have an altruistic nature that diminishes as it is applied to others not of the immediate family and tribe—however immediate family and tribe may be defined. We have historical precedent—evidence—that teaches us that as population stresses our environment and resources become less abundant that Homo sapiens will fight and kill each other in very large numbers for that which remains.

In my life time the population of the U.S. and the world has more than doubled. The U.S. and the world were a much better place with a lot less people. As population increases so does control of the super-wealthy over the unwashed masses. In other words elisalouisa, population and strict governmental control of civilian populations—decrease in individual freedoms and rights—appear to be relative.

Ask yourself:

”With all the continual prayer, why no results?” –C. Hitchens

Here’s a little challenge for you and your feely, touchy, friends. It wouldn’t be fair to challenge you to “convert” 6.8 billion to your enlightened world view so I challenge all of you to demonstrate the power of your argument and reason in converting a single republican… get this guy to see the world as you do…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&hl=en&v=_zCY99-Y540&gl=US

If he’s too tough a “nut” to crack, try Karl Rove or Sarah Palin or the Dick Cheney or any one of the many neo-cons available as a lab rat. If you believe it impossible to “convert” such hard core opposition to your world view then please tell us what you plan to do with them since they are obstacles to your “enlightened” world becoming a reality.

Good luck! smile

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By elisalouisa, July 24, 2010 at 4:00 pm Link to this comment

You certainly have many quotes Nemesis. However, the quote you
berate is the best quote, by loneagle July 21 at 2:04 pm.


                  Community IS the thing, and working together. But what I want to address is the idea repeated here about resistance. If you have ever had the epiphanic, ecstatic experience of harmony with all of everything, you know already that is was not through resistance that you got there, but rather through surrender. Not surrender to ravaging hoards crashing at the gates but, or to so-called “authority,” but surrender to something in us all that is wholly benevolent. It can be seen, can be experienced, does exist is all that I can say. It does not open to the mentality of battling down ?the walls or defeating enemies with gritted teeth.

In your quote of loneagle’s post you omitted the last two sentences. The last sentence should be especially considered. Most of us are searching. Some, like you, have all the answers.

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By nemesis2010, July 24, 2010 at 2:47 pm Link to this comment

”The avidum genus auricularum, the gazing populace, receive greedily, without examination, whatever sooths superstition, and promotes wonder.”

“Nothing is more surprising than the easiness with which the many are governed by the few.”

—David Hume

”A word to the wise ain’t necessary, it is the stupid ones who need all the advice —Bill Cosby

“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”—Martin Luther King, Jr.

”Truth is not determined by majority vote.”—Doug Gwyn

”It is hard to know whether gloomy speculations with the apocalypse represent real fear of its occurrence or a kind of perverse fascination with it, it may, on the other hand, serve in some subtle fashion as a self-fulfilling prophecy which drags in train the very dreaded events themselves.”

—Michael Barkun, “Disaster and the Millennium”

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By rainwave, July 23, 2010 at 2:01 pm Link to this comment

When a man fails to see the truth of certain generally accepted views, there is no law compelling him to provoke animosity by announcing his dissent.
George Henry Lewes

And then there are those who’s ego relies on his dissent.

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By nemesis2010, July 23, 2010 at 12:57 pm Link to this comment

By SemiFrost, July 23 at 10:37 am

”Please >>> here insert your preferred Christian deity, Buddhist or Daoist rep <<<, have mercy - kill this string now.”

 
Actually there is no need to pray to a non-existent fairy for the strip to end. There isn’t even any need for the strip to end. All that is needed to satisfy your desire is for you to stop making the necessary clicks that brought you—of your own volition—here and for you to fuck off! It’s that simple! smile

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By nemesis2010, July 23, 2010 at 12:54 pm Link to this comment

I.

By elisalouisa, July 23 at 12:27 pm

”Not too long ago nemesis. you thumbed you nose at TD posters and left for greener pastures.”

That’s not true and you know it! I bid farewell to participation on an article. And I didn’t thumb my nose up at posters; I left the thread because when all opposing arguments are based on metaphysical bullshit beliefs there is no point in continuing. One cannot reason with believers in fairytales! 

By elisalouisa, July 23 at 12:27 pm

”I have no doubt that this is true. Perhaps you could comment on just a few.”

Yes.

Technological advances and the supposed transition from a Type 0 to Type 1 civilization, which is—if memory serves—supposed to take about 50 – 100 years.

Fresh drinking water is bigger problem than food and science is beginning to make promising advances in nano-technology –such as the water filter previously mentioned. Are you aware that in India they have a $16 home water filtering system?

Nano-technology is proving to be very promising in the medical field also. This means more years to our already enhanced longevity.

Technological advances in energy exploitation have industry getting more bang for the buck than ever before. And although there is a maximum limit to efficiency and higher efficiency does not mean curtailed use (Jevon’s paradox) we are able to maintain our living standard for a greater number of people on the same amount of energy. As a supplemental energy source there are advances in wind and solar energy.

GMO technologies are producing much more food on less space than ever before with advances in this technology still to be realized. These are just a few—as you requested—of a perhaps promising future that may lie ahead.

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By nemesis2010, July 23, 2010 at 12:48 pm Link to this comment

II.

Now let’s take a look at a single paragraph from the article, shall we?

”We view ourselves as rational creatures. But is it rational to wait like sheep in a pen as oil and natural gas companies, coal companies, chemical industries, plastics manufacturers, the automotive industry, arms manufacturers and the leaders of the industrial world, as they did in Copenhagen, take us to mass extinction? It is too late to prevent profound climate change. But why add fuel to the fire? Why allow our ruling elite, driven by the lust for profits, to accelerate the death spiral? Why continue to obey the laws and dictates of our executioners?”

So why is Chris Hedges and those of his ilk sitting around like sheep in a pen allowing all of the aforementioned to take us to mass extinction? Why aren’t they organizing millions and leading those millions in the streets, demanding leaders take a different route? Why aren’t you and your friends organizing a 20 to 30 million man march on D.C.? A few tens or hundreds of you aren’t going to cause anything but laughter.

What are all of you doing to prevent those profits that drive our ruling elite and thus accelerate the death spiral? Is Truthdig about making a profit?

Ask yourself: Is Chris Hedges openly disobeying or obeying the dictates of his executioners? Does he pay taxes or has he taken a stand against the coercive actions of his executioners and stands in defiance of them? How about you? Are you paying taxes or purchasing products whose sales mean profits for the sellers and a host of intermediary agents that had a hand in providing that product?

Where are Mr. Hedges proposal as to what should and can be done to stave off this doomsday scenario of his? What is being proposed to make China—who is, reportedly, the world’s greatest consumer of energy—to curtail their consumption of energy? What about the up and coming India? How do you propose to convince Indians that they should return to a simpler hunter/gather lifestyle and forsake their efforts to raise their standard of living without coming across as hypocritical as a priest preaching fire and brimstone for sodomy? Where’re your plans to convince all those African nations that they should return to hunter/gatherer lifestyles and forsake modernization and a higher living standard? Let’s hear of your (3rd person) great plans? Where are your (3rd person) solutions? Let’s hear them!

Our biggest problem—IMO—is population levels and what can be done to curtail human population growth. Are you willing to die 15 years earlier than modern medicine can guarantee you Louisa in order to make room for a newborn? Do you believe that Hedges or any of the writers on Truthdig would be willing to sacrifice their lives in order that mankind might have a better chance for survival?

Doomsday scenarios sell (profits)… think about it elisalouisa smile

(Suggested reading: “The Progress Paradox: How Life Gets Better While People Feel Worse” by Gregg Easterbrook)

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By elisalouisa, July 23, 2010 at 8:27 am Link to this comment

Not too long ago nemesis. you thumbed you nose at TD posters and left for greener pastures.  Hopefully, such disdain shall recur thus resulting in a second withdrawal. However, if you must stay perhaps you could elaborate on your comment that:

There are many things taking place that the author of this piece has not taken into consideration-far too many to begin listing here.

I have no doubt that this is true. Perhaps you could comment on just a few.

Suggested reading: We All Live On Turtle Island

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By SemiFrost, July 23, 2010 at 6:37 am Link to this comment

Please >>> here insert your preferred Christian deity, Buddhist or Daoist rep <<<, have mercy - kill this string now.

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By ThomasG, July 23, 2010 at 6:23 am Link to this comment

The topic of this thread is about laissez nous faire policies and practices, and those who by doctrine and dogma appoint themselves as Gods’s agents on earth to enforce God’s Will over MAN, thereby making God an inferior God that needs MAN to enforce the Will of God.

Therefore, all of the true believers of God follow MAN over the cliff in the name of God——it’s God’s Will, but does it even matter when MAN’S Will becomes God’s Will, and God becomes inferior to MAN in the name of God.

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By nemesis2010, July 22, 2010 at 2:17 pm Link to this comment

By loneagle, July 21 at 2:04 pm

”And some drogues of the old near-past dualistic adversarial dog eat dog paradigm, like nemesis. His reasoned argument that we must continue pumping to meet demand doesn’t even shine the slightest light on the quality of that demand itself which is unfortunate.”

Hey Chief… a drogue is a stabilizing and safety device that helps human beings traverse hazardous events. It saves lives!

Try pulling your head out of your metaphysical arse and read what I wrote… it’s nothing like the tripe that you are spewing here. Pumping to meet demand? WTF? Too much peyote!

By loneagle, July 21 at 2:04 pm

”Community IS the thing, and working together. But what I want to address is the idea repeated here about resistance. If you have ever had the epiphanic, ecstatic experience of harmony with all of everything, you know already that is was not through resistance that you got there, but rather through surrender. Not
surrender to ravaging hoards crashing at the gates but, or to so-called “authority,” but surrender to something in us all that is wholly benevolent.”

Yeah that’ll work! When faced with the demise of the human race turn to metaphysical bullshit as the way of salvation! Are you the new Wokova and you’ve got another Ghost Dance?

There isn’t any Great Spirit, Jehovah and his messiah, Jeebus on a white horse, or a 12th imam coming to save the day, and the sooner Homo sapiens throw that metaphysical bullshit in the toilet and flush it, the sooner they will be able to face the truth and start dealing with it properly.

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By nemesis2010, July 22, 2010 at 2:14 pm Link to this comment

I.

By anomar, July 20 at 9:06 pm

” First of all, they WERE forbidden from growing food.  They were also forbidden from going into the woods to kill game readily available because their masters feared they would run away.
Their masters wanted all available time allocated to tobacco.  They did grow some corn, a minimal amount.  They died of starvation and disease when they hadn’t provoked the natives into attacking.  The starvation was induced by the elite who forced the workers to subsist on next to nothing in order to maximize profits.”

Masters, as much as they might think differently, are Homo sapiens who must eat in order to survive. And I don’t doubt that this will come as a shock to you but in the Jamestown settlement of the early 1600s there wasn’t a single Wal Mart or Sam’s Club where those genteel English gentlemen could go and purchase all of their victuals necessary for sustenance. 

Indentured servants could not plant crops for themselves because being indentured servants they had no land on which to do it. Yes, tobacco was to be the cash crop but they still had to allot some labor for food production. Your pigs and chickens have to be tended to, wild game, which supplements your domesticated food source, does not walk up to your house offering itself up as a sacrifice, and corn and grapes don’t plant themselves. More importantly, landed genteel English gentlemen don’t labor!

”Stealing an ear of corn or a bunch of grapes while weeding a garden was punishable by death. For stealing two or three pints of oatmeal, one worker had a needle thrust through his tongue and was then chained to a tree until he died of starvation.” Ted Nace, “Gangs of America” 

”Using crude instruments made of wood and stone, the colonists cultivated beans, peas, onions, melons, potatoes and a host of other vegetables.”

http://www.genealogical-gleanings.com/Jamestown.htm

By anomar, July 20 at 9:06 pm

”… no one, least of all myself, is claiming that 21st century humans could become hunter gatherers.  And there isn’t much wildlife left out there to hunt in any case.”

The question was rhetorical and not directed at you but rather as 3rd person plural to all those 21st century hunter/gatherers that claim that they will live off the land should the apocalyptic prognostications become reality.

By anomar, July 20 at 9:06 pm

” In fact, most humans will die as a result of the coming catastrophes.”

Provided those prognostications do become reality. We live in a very dangerous universe and any number of possible catastrophes can wreak havoc on the Homo sapien species at any time. At birth every single Homo sapien faces the inevitable confrontation with death. That’s life!

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By nemesis2010, July 22, 2010 at 2:10 pm Link to this comment

II.

By anomar, July 20 at 9:06 pm

” So what is your point?  Most of us know that dystopia is upon us.  You want us to admit that humans are immoral at their core and will resort to all sorts of perversions to survive ten seconds more?  That looks pretty obvious from the comments below.  We are ‘future eaters’ with no sense of purpose beyond our own short satisfaction.  Given that we have been programmed to believe exactly that, what are you claiming that is new and relevant to the coming catastrophe?

You should find a friend to remind you to take your meds on time. How long have you been batshit crazy? It has now become painfully obvious that you not only suffer poor reading comprehension but hold to a convoluted and contradictory world view.

The only point that I was making is that should such a doomsday scenario take place there is little or nothing that one will be able to do to prevent or survive it.

I’m 66 years old and have been hearing about the end of the world blah, blah, blah, almost all of my life. Not too long ago we were all told that a new ice age was upon us. Now it’s global warming. There’s hardly a generation that has not faced overpopulation problems and there has never been a time in human history where the super-wealthy, the “haves”, have not reigned with an iron fist over the “have-nots.”

What are you sacrificing? I know you use electricity because you’ve posted here… that’s means that you are partly responsible for the use of carbon-based energy which pollutes our air and requires more oil. Do you drive a car or take public transportation? Do you purchase goods from a supermarket requiring it to maintain refrigeration to keep food stuffs from spoiling? Do you eat meat? If you do then you are responsible for the farming of domesticated meat sources. How about vegetables? Crops require huge sources of energy. Do you breathe out carbon dioxide like all other homo sapiens? Shame on you if you do because you are contaminating our air! The trees have enough carbon dioxide and don’t need you exhaling for their survival. Do you wear clothes? Do you read books and magazines? If you do any of those things you are at least partly guilty of creating the demand that the market aims to supply!

Do you work and pay taxes? If you do then you are contributing to the status quo. You provide taxes that help finance all the wars and the public army to protect private profit.

So tell us of all the great sacrifices that you perform in order to prevent such a doomsday scenario from taking place.

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By nemesis2010, July 22, 2010 at 2:06 pm Link to this comment

III.

By anomar, July 20 at 9:06 pm

”When I switched allegiance to all other life forms, I implicitly declared the majority of us not worth saving.”

Given that you have yet to kill yourself it is obvious that you believe you one of those worth saving. I’d like to ask one of those that you classify as not worth saving what he/she opines on that matter.

I would suggest that you walk outside and breathe a little fresh air and forget about all this doomsday bullshit because it is just that… bullshit!

There are many things taking place that the author of this piece has not taken into consideration—far too many to begin listing here. Did you know that scientist have developed a nano water filter that makes the nastiest water drinkable? Have you any idea of all the technological advances that are being developed? Who knows what technology will be, or is currently being, developed that can mean much for the future survival of the human race?

Many may die. Most may perish. Who knows? Certainly neither you nor I know what the future holds. And what difference does it make? When you’re dead there is no thought or concern or knowledge… you won’t feel any dismay about Homo sapiens after you are dead so relax and live your life today.

Try getting laid…

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By Jaime, July 22, 2010 at 1:49 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

What a great way to go. Our parasitic needs for growth will ultimately force Earths
immune system to attack us as parasites. Those stupid enough to believe in
Politicians will be the first to die… and thank God. Our time is coming. These are
exciting times. God has never blessed America or the American lifestyle because
its utter presence is degrading to every living thing. We deserve this.

Don’t be stupid and try to get the system to reform itself. It’s entire existence is
based on consumption. Sharing rides, building new energy infrastructure, etc., is
the problem. Consumption is the problem. There are no need for bankers, CEO’s,
Cars, Cities, designers, fashionistas, photographers, modern day farmers, Wii,
sprinkler systems or any of that bullshit. There are too many of us and too few
resources. What is absolutely needed is the top soil… and that too, in our cut-
throughout competition for consumption, has been eaten away.

What about the children? Why the fuck did you decide to have them? We leave
them in a world so degraded, so wasted, and so so pissed.

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By bogi666, July 22, 2010 at 12:02 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

old man turtle, the optimism used by politicians, businesses and preachers is pathological optimism directed for the mindlessness populations to which they appeal.

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By Old Man Turtle, July 22, 2010 at 11:56 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This commenter “Marshall” sure seems obsessed with things sexual.  So far it seems to be mostly with what his ‘tone’ and choice-of-words suggest he considers to be sexual ‘perversion.’  Of course if “Marshall” is in the throes of the typical adolescent hormone deluge, his preoccupation is probably only what passes for “normal” these days.

Still, it couldn’t hurt for him to try aiming a bit above the crotch, with his puerile zingers, once-in-a-while.

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By Marshall, July 22, 2010 at 12:01 am Link to this comment

Enough of the sanctimonious hedges already.  he’s a rabid liberal in heat and
needs to get an apartment with michael moore so they can consummate their love
and leave the rest of us in peace.

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By herb, July 21, 2010 at 4:44 pm Link to this comment

Yes, it seems that my species has set itself on the road to extinction.  These
things happen.

The Universe is kind, it just doesn’t seem that way because, when we ignore
gentle warnings, the Universe responds with a series of less gentle warnings in
an attempt to get our attention about our self destructive behaviors.  To my
understanding the Universe has been trying to call our attention to the fact that
thinking of domination and exploitation of those weaker than ourselves is a self
destructive way of thinking that leads inexorably to giantism in social
organization and the concomitant waste and destruction of our means of
survival.  Just as Eisenhower was ignored on the subject of the unwarranted
influence of the great sources of power developing around the industry of war
making, the species as a whole has done nothing to counter the formation of
concentrated power and influence.  As Acton pointed out power corrupts, but
we all fear our weakness and seek power, both financial and political, in our
attempt to feel more safe only to succumb to insanity.

Well, let’s do what we can to enjoy the beauty and happiness that remains and
confront the materially insane, as best as we can, with the fact of their rot.

herb

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By jimprues, July 21, 2010 at 1:48 pm Link to this comment

Once in a great while we have discontinuous events
that shape our culture, politics and lives. In a way
the BP gulf disaster can be so described.

But what we need today is a discontinuity that helps
to redefine the playing field of our lives,
appreciating the context of the totality of this
moment. “Future Eaters” may be a good descriptor for
these elites, but this moment is All that exists. We
can’t leave. It’s here where future becomes past.

World 5.0 provides a discontinuous cultural idea
based on the reality of Now and the value of Love.
Beats the doom we clearly face without it.

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By rainwave, July 21, 2010 at 12:11 pm Link to this comment

There is no answer but death. For there to be birth there must be death. We are unwilling to go to the depths like “Inanna” did as she completely obliterated herself to be anew. There is no “ism” to fix our fears. No futuristic program of environmental enlightenment or social agendas to get us to the next step. We must completely, utterly, annihilate the system we have lived in. We either do it on our terms or the efficient clock of death and birth will do it for us.

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By Old Man Turtle, July 21, 2010 at 11:58 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Those here recommending, no-doubt in sincere good-faith, the continued use of the political apparatus as an effective avenue to “the redress of their grievances,” might as well go to the nearest cancer ward and urge patients there to “vote” the disease out of their lives.  Only they wouldn’t dare, of course, because the rigged system of selecting shills for the status quo, “power”-wise, is designed and run to do only that and nothing else.  It can’t cure even its own ills, let alone society’s or its “individual” members’. 

The sickness afflicting the domesticated peoples is “civilization” itself, and their own too-precious “individual”-ity is its most crippling manifestation among Humankind.  Pretty much every other “complaint,” including the long list of them laid-out by Mr. Hedges and others here, is just another symptom, and all the patent ideological and institutional placebos out there are nothing but the for-profit toxic nostrums of modern-day “witch doctors.”

Still, the Ancients knew there are no incurable diseases, but only incurable people.  It could be that “democracy” addicts consider one another to be incurable optimists, but incurable idiots is beginning to look nearer the actuality.  Maybe that’s harsh, but how deep in denial would someone have to be who’d rather be told the “shadows” in their lungs are only tricks of The Light?  How self-deluded must one be not to believe that what they’ve actually gotten with all their voting is exactly what you get with all that voting?

Those getting sick-and-tired of being sick, and tired, might try looking beyond the superficialities of the political-economy for a remedy.  Some might be surprised to find it in their own essential Human Nature, which gets such a bad rap from vested interests seeking to profit from the desperation of those whose Humanity they constantly demean and degrade.  That black-water, from the industrial-disease cesspool-of-despond, has certainly splashed-up all over this and other ‘threads’ here lately.

Out tame Sisters and Brothers are only sick, not “evil.”  We’ve got the Medicine they need, too, but no one can force it on them.  “Ask and you will receive,” is still damned good advice.

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By balkas, July 21, 2010 at 10:15 am Link to this comment

Correction!
It shld be living in TEN pools now, and not in tern pools.

The ten living pools appear much segregated and descending from top pool in military-politico-econo-educational powers.

To me, it is important to hyphenate the four aspects of the reality, because on living level, they do not have a separate existence.

Thus, whoever controls or imparts education and ‘education’,controls also army, banking, pols, economy.
Or to put it another way, whoever controls army-cia-fbi-city police; in short the military, controls or even owns 100% of entire america.

Thus, having apsolute and awesome powers, this entity with multiple facets cld end any war or start a new one today.

Stated otherwise, the entity had been able to develop a best fascist state ever.
Thus, one cld postulate that the best chance to pare dwn US fascism, wld be to form a nonfascist party. tnx

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By loneagle, July 21, 2010 at 10:04 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Wow. There’s a lot of good sentiments here, useful,
conscious, hopeful even promising. And some
drogues of the old near-past dualistic adversarial dog
eat dog paradigm, like nemesis. His reasoned
argument that we must continue pumping to meet
demand doesn’t even shine the slightest light on the
quality of that demand itself which is unfortunate.
Community IS the thing, and working together. But
what I want to address is the idea repeated here about
resistance. If you have ever had the epiphanic, ecstatic
experience of harmony with all of everything, you
know already that is was not through resistance that
you got there, but rather through surrender. Not
surrender to ravaging hoards crashing at the gates
but, or to so-called “authority,” but surrender to
something in us all that is wholly benevolent. It can be
seen, can be experienced, does exist is all that I can
say. It does not open to the mentality of battling down
the walls or defeating enemies with gritted teeth. The
only reason “nobody knows what’s happening” is
because the are seeing through the old lens, while in
fact, “everybody knows [intuitively] what’s happening.”
The canary in the mine is long dead. REDDOG’s on the
right track. All is not known but there are obvious
thing to do. More crushing technology or taking up
arms is not remotely the answer. Resist it if you must
but better to just turn away, get busy with a gentle
hand, sit in the dark every day not with a sense of
deprivation but to intuit, to divine the steps ahead. All
technology is not bad. There’s a lot of shit yet to hit
the fan but come on, don’t feed it unless you just
absolutely have to, take courage, explore, get busy.
There’s lots to do and here’s a hint: none of it is by
domination. It is by surrender. Now come on, turn off
the light, get busy. You are not without resources.

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By REDHORSE, July 21, 2010 at 9:40 am Link to this comment

I’m wondering, if there are any European posters here, who hold this same, doomed apocalyptic vision of the future, as do, so many Americans. Many of our counterparts across the “pond”, enjoy health care, protected social programs, and free, top rate education, for any qualified student. They have Unions and good wages. In fact, American Corporations that pay s#%t wages and deny benefits to Americans, pay full benefits and retirement in some European countries. And by the way, say what you want about the French, but, they’ll take bad government to the street, at the drop of a hat. And, all this talk about a third political party: some of’em have five. Don’t forget, most of the world economic collapse was the result of American financial thugdom. And, Rahm, Bennie and the other thugs are still pulling the strings.

      NEMESIS2010 struck a real chord with the Jamestown comment. Ours is a raped and exploited Continent and we are a psychologically battered and exploited people. It’s simple. We’re all suffering from the New World Why is There a Pain in My #ss Blues.

        Sex and death, coupled with the threat of “Big Brother” police state violence (”—we can kill you or disappear you without warrant—”), have been the major unconscious manipulators used by capitalist oppression, to create, American emotional, paralytic, fever pitch anxiety and the death wish belief, that life and salvation await us in the firestorm. This sense of a foreshortened future, doom, paranoia, guilt and depression, are classic sysmptoms of post traumatic stress disorder. When, was the last time, you saw John Kennedy’s head explode, Bobby Kennedy dying on a restaurant kitchen floor or, Martin shot to death on a Memphis balcony. If you don’t wince, at the sight of an IED explosion, you are emotionally frozen. If you think it’s entertainment, you’ve entered a realm, of serious human disconnect. If you can no longer tell the difference, between real and manufactured reality, register to VOTE. The results will definately wake you up. 

        Destructive world spiritual, emotional, political and ecological forces of horrendous magnitude are at play and the American psyche is suicidal. The greatest political thug victory, is that after looting and destroying the greatest economy in the world, leaving its’ citizens destitute, they’ve convinced said citizens, to blame themselves.

        Repeal the Patriot Act!!. Campaign Finance reform now!! Nationalize all American oil and coal until the National Debt is paid. Place a huge entertainment tax on Murdoch and the other media using free American airways. Scale tax’s so that all pay an equal proportionate amount. Stop exploitation of illegal labor with installation of a national living wage. Expand Social Security. Demand population limits. DON’T SPITEVOTE!! The Republicans are “—we the peoples—” greatest political enemy.

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By SGater, July 21, 2010 at 8:59 am Link to this comment

bookmark dofollow:

HERE HERE! Very well said and nicely put.

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By glagadec, July 21, 2010 at 8:36 am Link to this comment

I spent a while reading all the comments on Chris’ article. I agree with some and don’t with others; but one thing is clear: you either do “something”...or don’t.It’s that basic. I realize that the odds are totally in favor of some type of universal catastrophe but I want to tell the world something- and I don’t reveal this with any hidden agendas. I’m an old man now and getting ready to shuffle off the old coil, so I certainly am not self-promoting-but I am really concerned about the future- for all you young or younger ones. So I and a colleague are finishing a project we began 35 years ago. It’s a musical called SHAMAN and it deals with all these issues.The goal is to make it accessible to grass root theater groups to spread some consciousness about what lies ahead.WE want to raise money for an organization we call “The Medicine Wheel” that will help support individuals and organizations who are doing “something” to avoid the most serious consequences of our increasing “dis-ease”. Interested? Contact us on My Space under “Gerald Lagadec” if you want more information.again , this is not self-promotion; it’s not about that at all, but it is about using this medium to do “something.”!

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By bookmark dofollow, July 21, 2010 at 8:25 am Link to this comment

The human potential is beautiful, incredible really. But narrow-focused beliefs about what we are and why we’re here often sabotage our potential to see the beauty that is present in the natural world as well as in us (who are also a part of the natural world). Whether human life will continue on this earth, we don’t know. But some people are beginning to recognize that many of our belief systems aren’t working. We’re not a scourge on this earth, but many of our beliefs are.

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By bob, July 21, 2010 at 8:16 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I love all these cheap ass ads smeared across your blog of “TRUTH”! The truth is that you are as much a part of the human folly as the guilitiest of all. Welcome to Hell, asshole.

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By kerryrose, July 21, 2010 at 7:52 am Link to this comment

Anomar

Thank you for making me smile.

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By Ed Lytwak, July 21, 2010 at 7:27 am Link to this comment

There is one impossible (for some) thing that you can do today, right now before breakfast.  Stop eating MEAT!  There is no single action that any individual can take that is more empowering, helps the environment and animals more, and is more effective in resisting corporate totalitarianism. 

Far from a cliché, “You are what you eat” is a profound truth, never more applicable than to the food that “we” as a society and culture consume.  Food and eating are the most fundamental aspects of the human experience – the conditio sine qua non of existence.  Food and eating are also the quintessential social experience.  From the mother suckling her child, to generations sitting at one table for a family meal, to soup kitchens and community food banks, we cannot separate the experience of eating from its social context. 

But, most people in our society, regard what we eat as a personal choice, a private consumer preference devoid of any connection to values, the social context in which the food is provided or to the web of life that is its ultimate source.  It is no coincidence that the same corporate forces that control food are also the ones most interested in making sure our food choices are isolated from any meaningful connection to the “real” world.  This alienation of our individual food choices from the broader consequences to what we eat allows us to abrogate our responsibility for the pain and suffering, environmental degradation and injustice directly caused by those choices.

The big multinational corporations which control most global food production and distribution have little or no sense of morality toward the life on this planet, only a prime directive to commodify everything and maximize profits.  The injustice inherent in the global food supply cannot be separated from the extreme cruelty and abuse of animals and the degradation of the web of life directly caused by corporate control of the means of production and distribution.  Is it any surprise that the same corporations that would inflict horrendous suffering on feeling, sentient animals just to maximize profits would also have complete disdain for the people that produce and consume the food-like corporate swill, never mind the millions of hungry who can’t afford to buy the food?.

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By jank, July 21, 2010 at 6:38 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

where is my first amendment rights? you prove my points by censoring me truthdig…

lets try again…

Response to chris hedges
“And now we sit passive and dumb as corporations and the leaders of industrialized nations ensure that climate change will accelerate to levels that could mean the extinction of our species.”
“But this time the game is over.”
“We giddily exhausted our natural capital,”…(emphasis on “we” as a social construct)
“We view ourselves as rational creatures. But is it rational to wait like sheep in a pen as oil and natural gas companies, coal companies, chemical industries, plastics manufacturers, the automotive industry, arms manufacturers and the leaders of the industrial world, as they did in Copenhagen, take us to mass extinction?”

……sheep or social design?…you place all the emphasis on the individual, which is what I would expect a deitist such as yourself to do, after all, you have no choice…you did pick theology to study at the graduate level…you even chased the trinket of a brand name school, as if this really has an extra effect on an individuals absorption of knowledge…science says it does not…your individual-based worldview defines your approach to the problem of “other minds”…you project your passions through the lens of this worldview…but that’s another matter…you are no friend of the scientist…for if you were, you would use the bio-psycho-social lenses to gather and interpret the zeitgeist, but no, you discard a century worth of work to call us passive and dumb and sheep, never considering the zeitgeist which models all our behavior…I am not surprised your israeli paymasters here at truthdig are pushing this revolt-rhetoric to the max…warfare language appears to be a permanent fixture in their lexicon, traditionally from the right, but now from the left as well…after all, there is another war to mentally gear the public up for….this is only about israelis and persian oilfields…they see historical opportunity to strike…they have done the military-calculus and believe they can pull it off…I agree…it is obvious the old ottoman empire is not technologically savvy enough to defend itself against Nordic technology…but even the british weren’t as arrogant as these schadenfreudes…at least they were honest in their swindles…these dual national identities we got going on here in the us, are not as honest…I am not buying your rush to chaos…in the resulting chaos, the israelis will use this as a trigger to invade iran…I have seen you grasp some depth psychology as you evolve…false consciousness…sense of learned helplessness, etc…you did not learn that in divinity school….go back mr hedges…go back to harvard…this time run your mind through a critical social psych program…you are being used by foreign nationalists who are attempting to hijack our amercan zeitgeist…you have not wound your mind out far enough…you are not seeing the warfare grid…

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By Unconventional Ideas, July 21, 2010 at 6:08 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

To me the sensible response going forward is to make meaning out of each and every day, surrounded by people you care about, and who care about you.

Meaning includes enjoying good literature, good conversation, observing the animal kingdom, learning and perfecting hands-on skills, and delving deeply into human and natural world history.

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By bogi666, July 21, 2010 at 5:36 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

semifrost, anomar FYI, A Republican congressman want to introduce legislation to prohibit individuals from growing flower, fruits all commodities on their own property.

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By jank, July 21, 2010 at 4:38 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Response to chris hedges
“And now we sit passive and dumb as corporations and the leaders of industrialized nations ensure that climate change will accelerate to levels that could mean the extinction of our species.”
“But this time the game is over.”
“We giddily exhausted our natural capital,”…(emphasis on “we” as a social construct)
“We view ourselves as rational creatures. But is it rational to wait like sheep in a pen as oil and natural gas companies, coal companies, chemical industries, plastics manufacturers, the automotive industry, arms manufacturers and the leaders of the industrial world, as they did in Copenhagen, take us to mass extinction?”

……sheep or social design?…you place all the emphasis on the individual, which is what I would expect a deitist such as yourself to do, after all, you have no choice…you did pick theology to study at the graduate level…you even chased the trinket of a brand name school, as if this really has an extra effect on an individuals absorption of knowledge…science says it does not…your individual-based worldview defines your approach to the problem of “other minds”…you project your passions through the lens of this worldview…but that’s another matter…you are no friend of the scientist…for if you were, you would use the bio-psycho-social lenses to gather and interpret the zeitgeist, but no, you discard a century worth of work to call us passive and dumb and sheep, never considering the zeitgeist which models all our behavior…I am not surprised your israeli paymasters here at truthdig are pushing this revolt-rhetoric to the max…warfare language appears to be a permanent fixture in their lexicon, traditionally from the right, but now from the left as well…after all, there is another war to mentally gear the public up for….this is only about israelis and persian oilfields…they see historical opportunity to strike…they have done the military-calculus and believe they can pull it off…I agree…it is obvious the old ottoman empire is not technologically savvy enough to defend itself against Nordic technology…but even the british weren’t as arrogant as these schadenfreudes…at least they were honest in their swindles…these dual national identities we got going on here in the us, are not as honest…I am not buying your rush to chaos…in the resulting chaos, the israelis will use this as a trigger to invade iran…I have seen you grasp some depth psychology as you evolve…false consciousness…sense of learned helplessness, etc…you did not learn that in divinity school….go back mr hedges…go back to harvard…this time run your mind through a critical social psych program…you are being used by foreign nationalists who are attempting to hijack our amercan zeitgeist…you have not wound your mind out far enough…you are not seeing the warfare grid…

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By gerard, July 20, 2010 at 10:20 pm Link to this comment

What a string!  If conceptualizing the problems and possible answers is the first step, we are just about ready for the next step. Most of us instinctively reject suicide and even the most fearful advocate courage.  Few to none deny their personal responsibility, and many are already taking remedial practical steps in spite of doubts. nobody thinks it will be easy. 

There is a common recognition of the need for community, cooperation, and return to a simpler, less consumer oriented life closer to nature, respectful of the environment.  There is an overwhelming commonality in recognition of the guilt of the capitalist system for its pursuir of money at the expense of human values. This recognition is accompanied with loss of faith in big government and the desperate need for political reform.

If thinking could now be directed toward specific ways and means:  Just how can moves be made in what areas that are most accessible; what kinds of organizations will be possible; what kind of funding can be practically solicited; what leadershiop is already qualified; where is the best place to begin (hopefully some area where success is most likely to occur soonest, so as to be used to encourage follow-ups?  Etc. etc.  Let’s request Truthdig to let this string continue to a succeeding Phase 2.

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By radson, July 20, 2010 at 6:24 pm Link to this comment

The Bubble Syndrome has been relatively new to mankind as we know it today ,but in hindsight is rather old .The over extension of the ability for ‘Mother Earth ’ to rejuvenate and therefore sustain the human
race , whether it was in central and south America has been well documented along with the Aztecs and the Mayas way of life, and the Chinese.It is undoubtedly true that the Spanish Conquistadors played a certain hand in the
downfall of this once prosperous civilization in their quest for riches to promote their own homeland /civilization ,but it can be argued that the abuse of the natural resources led also to their demise ,even before the
arrival of the Spaniards.Also the indigenous leaders of these lands along with their ideology of the Sun Gods in order to maintain control over the populace is not much different then the present blind faith which
is practiced and preached by the ‘Bible and the Koran ’ and all the offshoot religious groups that have followed in these similar footsteps .The grassroots membership of the religious organizations are for the most
part altruistic in their belief of community and fellowship ,but this fellowship is Brocken when monetary values override the balance due to competing interests of power .This competing interest has been at war
since the Ancient Civilizations and hasn’t changed much today ,the comparisons hardly need to be mentioned .When one actually thinks about which religion is better than the other ,is actually not the question ,
for if there was a God ;why would the God favor one over the other ,if in essence we are all Gods’ children .How about thinking that we are all Mother Earths’ children and that our own existence is directly associated
to our own symbiotic attachment to her and that if we abuse Her then we only abuse ourselves,regardless whether you’re Arab or Catholic or Chinese .The ‘End of Worlders’ and their foolish belief that the book of
Revelations will somehow come to pass is nonsense ,it is based more so on fanatics that actually hope for such an eventuality ,because some Prophet or is it Philosopher wrote about this two thousand years
ago ,but guess what ,we’re still here ,and even the Chinese that Jesus Christ new nothing about ,are still here and the Indians and the North American Indians and and and and .So whether you’re inclined to belief
the Religious philosopher it is your choice ,but one thing is certain ,we all share the same Planet and if you cherish your children then respect the Mother ,its everyone’s Mother and the only Mother we have ,if you’re
convinced that the philosophy of the Israeli preacher is so right,then why is it so biased.Nevertheless the greed will catch up to the Hoarders, and their own Children will denounce them ,because of their legacy of excess and stupidity and in the end it will become everyone’s legacy ,but will any one remember?

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By SemiFrost, July 20, 2010 at 5:14 pm Link to this comment

Ahhh… savor Soylent Green… tastes like napalm in the morning…

Yes, unimaginable and impossible; the US population somehow managing self-sustenance (growing their own).  What is the inner city crowd going to do?  Break out the pickaxes and have at the asphalt?

At first the shelves will start to look a little sparse (Hey, where’s my Fruity Pebbles?  How come there’s only chicken thighs left?  Why does that head of iceberg have a 15-buck price tag on it?), and it’ll go downhill from there.

Short of taking up arms, getting shot up, blasted by the sound cannons and thrown in the detention center, there is a certain way to get the freakin’ attention of the main monkeys running the house: cut off their bananas.

Some better sort of jokers need to stay out of lockup long enough to organize a mass anti-tax movement among what’s left of the middle class and smaller business.  Just based on the simple moral obligation not to finance corrupt and unsustainable military actions is justification enough.

Then there is that whole thing about a government operating in the adverse to what the vast majority of it citizens actually want, while they’re at it handing over billions in tax dollars and China-financed loot to an incompetent, fraudulent bunch of self-satisfied scumbag shysters, while infrastructure, health care and education get flushed.

Sure, it ain’t gonna happen; I’m just sayin’… it should.  What we need is:  Sort of cross between George Washington, Jesus Christ and The Hulk.  Problem solved.

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By anomar, July 20, 2010 at 5:06 pm Link to this comment

nemesis2010

First of all, they WERE forbidden from growing food.  They were also forbidden from going into the woods to kill game readily available because their masters feared they would run away.

Their masters wanted all available time allocated to tobacco.  They did grow some corn, a minimal amount.  They died of starvation and disease when they hadn’t provoked the natives into attacking.  The starvation was induced by the elite who forced the workers to subsist on next to nothing in order to maximize profits.

All this is well documented and no one, least of all myself, is claiming that 21st century humans could become hunter gatherers.  And there isn’t much wildlife left out there to hunt in any case.

In fact, most humans will die as a result of the coming catastrophes. 

So what is your point?  Most of us know that dystopia is upon us.  You want us to admit that humans are immoral at their core and will resort to all sorts of perversions to survive ten seconds more?  That looks pretty obvious from the comments below.  We are ‘future eaters’ with no sense of purpose beyond our own short satisfaction. 

Given that we have been programmed to believe exactly that, what are you claiming that is new and relevant to the coming catastrophe?

It is pretty clear that humans are also adept at kindness and cooperation, just not in the current era and not enough of us to turn the tide.

As I have said below: most humans will die.  What else do you want?  Some sort of blanket condemnation of everything that could happen in the future?  You want us all to say that humans are irredeemably evil? 

When I switched allegiance to all other life forms, I implicitly declared the majority of us not worth saving.

The majority of us refuse to face the evil in any sense.  We refuse to be willing to sacrifice for something better.

Now we are out of time.  Do you want an excuse to run down the street and murder anyone you come across? 

What is your point?  That we all should be afraid?

We already are.

As John Brunner wrote, “While nobody knows what is going on around here, everybody knows what is going on around here.”

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By balkas, July 20, 2010 at 4:47 pm Link to this comment

This simplicity, for me, elucidates the situation: If we are born in one and only genetic pool, we shld be all living in one living pool—not tern as now.

All our scientific discoveries over millennia are due to just 0001% of world pop. These people were born geniuses because it takes 10 mn people to produce one.

W.O. people, no geniuses and no progress. Since we share or come from one genetic pool, we shld have equal access to food, shelter, healthcare, and econo-military-political power.

This can be achieved by forming an antipodal party to the two wings of one party. This appears to me the best way to go! tnx

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By nemesis2010, July 20, 2010 at 3:52 pm Link to this comment

By anomar, July 20 at 5:26 pm

”Very important information this is; however, you left out that most of the Virginia Colonists were men who had no idea how to produce food and who were controlled by corporate forces via the elite in the Colony who forbid growing food or establishing a self sufficient base.”

I had to do quick editing because my post exceeded the 4,000 character limit. However, I did use the term “first corporate town” hoping most would make the connection.

You are off on your summation. They were not forbidden from growing food. The need for labor to grow crops in order to sustain themselves was one of the motivating factors in the severe persecution of those that escaped the colony and went to live among the indigenous populations in order to survive.

Most of the colonists were not investors in the Virginia Company but rather indentured persons seeking a new life. Many others were servants and “criminals” sequestered off the streets and from prisons in England and Scotland.

By anomar, July 20 at 5:26 pm

”It wasn’t the pristine environment that defeated them: it was their ideological choices based on making a quick profit.”

You obviously misunderstand what was written. I asked that if they (the inhabitants of Jamestown) “could not find adequate sustenance in a pristine environment like 16th and 17th century Virginia just how the hell do you suppose to survive in the ravaged lands of today?”

How many 21st century hunter/gatherers populate our large metropolitan centers today? If people were starving to death, forced to eat dogs, cats, rodents, even their own feces and corpses, in an environment overflowing with game and wild plants, etc. because of an inability to survive in the wild, just how the hell will today’s city dwellers survive without resorting to extreme violence and perversions? That’s the point that I was making.

Survival in the wild, even where there exist adequate supplies of fresh water, game and edible vegetation is a bitch at best. Even for experts in survival the slightest injury can mean a slow and agonizing death or that he becomes a quick and easy lunch for some other predator –even another homo sapien predator.

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By ThaddeusStevens, July 20, 2010 at 3:43 pm Link to this comment

I see some misunderstanding abounding in the comments. I would like to clear those up.


Taking the analogy of a train racing into the side of a granite wall of nearly infinite thickness, we are on a train that is head towards that granite wall. Slowing our forward momentum could make a difference in terms of the velocity that we strike into the wall and how much damage is done.

To slow down this madly racing train we are on will require cutting back, using less and conserving. That can be done without ‘lowering’ our lifestyle in terms of quality. We may need to change our modes of transportation; from hundreds of millions of individual cars to a mass transit system that runs on several thousand engines. Eliminating Inefficiencies and conservation methods in the North American electrical system could allow the closing of twenty or perhaps thirty power stations on a permanent basis. Wide spread use of solar energy could allow the closing of another thirty or forty, or . . .

There are many ways to eliminate or turn back the dial on carbon fuel usage. This would have a significant effect on the speed with which we slam into the upcoming wall.

What we do not have is a plan.
What we do not have is a commitment on the part of each person to make to state every day ” I can make a difference in the future outcome. I will work at making the future better.”

What we do have is the ability to make a choice. To make a difference by doing what a decent human being would do or to decide there is no choice left and to embrace the many headed beast of oblivion as we speed insanely towards the granite wall in front of us.

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By JDmysticDJ, July 20, 2010 at 1:35 pm Link to this comment

Once again Hedges is screaming, “DO SOMETHING!” and his readers are saying “We’re doomed,” “Good riddance,” “I’m glad I didn’t have children,” “There are too many damned people.” There is a link to a website that advocates voluntary extinction of humankind, and seeks adherents to this nihilism. Rational nihilism is in no way rational, in any of its forms.

Can Mother Nature’s “Natural Living Arrangement” sustain us? There are a lot of people, but it’s a very big world. Perhaps becoming “Agrarian reformers” with a commonality of understanding about the necessity of population control would provide us with a sustainable future. A total reallocation of resources would be necessary, but that necessary reallocation seems unachievable under our current “Living Arrangement.”

People on the left are saying Capitalism is killing us, while people on the right are saying it’s the lack of Capitalism that is doing the killing. Hedges rightly points out that Capitalism is not concerned with anything but profit. Capitalism is not sustainable, that is a contention that has been popular for nearly two centuries now, but Capitalism continues, and has achieved total hegemony. Capitalists have been able, up to now, to provide a marginal existence for its minions, while raping and pillaging the powerless. Capitalists say, “A marginal existence?””Look at our affluence, our power, our grandeur,” but our spirits have been diminished, our moments of joy are too seldom and not derived from affluence, power, or grandeur. We are wracked by a decadence that destroys our families, and diminishes love itself.

A utopian world would consist of interconnected self sustaining, and self governing, peaceful communities; a rebirth of the Tioshpaye Way, an ideal that was not able to sustain itself, and more than likely never actually existed in its ideal. Violence and brigandage has plagued mankind from its inception. In fact, predatory violence is the very essence of Mother Nature’s “Living Arrangement.”

Modern Violence is not marked by brute physical strength, mano y mano struggle, warriors against warriors, community defense against brigands, small tribe against small tribe, or brigand against brigand. Modern violence is marked by the ultimate brigandage, Capitalism has become the ultimate brigand, and it wages its heartless violence with the aid of, for the most part, depersonalized superior technology. There have been other isms that have confronted Capitalism, and confront Capitalism, but Capitalism reigns supreme.

Some, claiming pre-cognition, claim that Capitalism is destroying the natural world. That claim is verified by the preponderance of science. Can Capitalism be regulated to prevent this destruction, as of now, and into future, the answer seems to be, no.

If utopianism is unworkable and unachievable, and Capitalism is destroying us, what is to be done? I’ll suggest that there is only one thing we can do, that would be to continue the struggle for peace and justice. I’ll argue that the struggle must be rational, patient, and not become self destructive by resorting to violence, or a surrender to negativity. In order to avoid chaos and anarchy, we’ll need a government that serves the people and will provide stability, a government that will fulfill the, unrealized ideal of, “We the People.” The framework is before us, all that’s required is that we take the necessary action to make this framework serve us all and not only serve the few. It won’t be an easy task, but what alternative do we have? The Tea Partiers take to the streets, and reshape the political landscape, while we do nothing but intellectualize and complain. We have allies in the government and the media, but they are made impotent by our lack of action. True freedom and justice can not be achieved, unless we demand that they be achieved.

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By REDHORSE, July 20, 2010 at 1:33 pm Link to this comment

BOW WOW WOW PAVLOV—MY TAIL IS WAGGIN’!!
      THAT’S THE KIND OF #$@T I LIKE TO HEAR!!

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By anomar, July 20, 2010 at 1:26 pm Link to this comment

By nemesis2010, July 20 at 4:59 pm #

“It might be a good time to remember that in America’s first corporate town, Jamestown, Virginia, Englishmen were reduced to eating their own feces and the dead. There are accounts of Englishmen having dug up the three day old dead body of an Indian and eating every last bit of him. There is also the account of a husband murdering his wife while she slept in his arms, salting her, and eating all of her except for the head. Now… if people could not find adequate sustenance in a pristine environment like 16th and 17th century Virginia just how the hell do you suppose to survive in the ravaged lands of today?”

Very important information this is; however, you left out that most of the Virginia Colonists were men who had no idea how to produce food and who were controlled by corporate forces via the elite in the Colony who forbid growing food or establishing a self sufficient base.

It wasn’t the pristine environment that defeated them: it was their ideological choices based on making a quick profit.

We will be left with a radically altered environment which will not cater to our needs or knowledge set.

Like I said: many will die and many of those who do will have their own immorality to blame.  Other innocents will be swept up too, not the least of which will be all the other life forms who inhabit this beautiful planet.

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By REDHORSE, July 20, 2010 at 1:10 pm Link to this comment

True SEMIFROST. Many Americans live, in a designated “economic war zone”, and are beaten numb and senseless, by the Government fostered, prison/industrial drug trade, gang violence, failed educational systems, gutted industry, and cultural disintegration. Your view, of much of our leadership as heartless and inhuman, is accurate. Still, I disagree, that my garden, or your island, offers any ultimate sanctuary, from the coming world storm, or can serve us only, as a place for cynical brooding. We’re all in this $#@t up to our necks.

    Robert the Bear told me, that if we accept our wounds, our healing, becomes the legitimate gift and blessing, that allows us to offer the world life. Bush and Cheney opened an abscess in the American psyche. Unless we heal it, rich and poor alike will perish together. Ours is an inner poverty of heart and soul. Because we deny our illness, the World suffers the destructive consequence of our insanity. In the deepest, poverty stricken ghettos, of American financial and cultural disintegration, there are minds fighting, to keep the Light of our finest American Ideals alive. How alone they must feel, as they face the poverty stricken horror and murder, that emanates from the Evil, which has subsumed Washington. It is an Evil that has come to us all. We must all fight this manufactured darkness. It’s greatest victory, is to convince us, that we are powerless and alone. And, like the Devil convince mankind, it doesn’t exist. The great hallmark of psychological abuse, is to convince the abused, that it’s all, in his/her mind.  I in my garden, you on your island, the wounded men and women fighting in the ghettos, have no choice. In the face of this soul annihilating darkness, we must become Light. Reach out!! “To whom much is given—much shall be required.”

      The only place I saw the World Social Forum in Detroit reported, was TRUTHDIG and DEMOCRACY NOW. There are many, many of us. We must somehow connect! Detroit seems to have rediscovered, what many of us have forgotten. “—We the people—” are the life and the power. Washington is there because of us. Not the other way ‘round. Again, the only reason we consider D.C., is because it is filled with dangerous thugs. “Gee, What’s drunk, crazy megalomaniacal narcissistic Daddy, gonna do next?” Outside our prudent caution, and pity, for their failure and loss of moral stature, they deserve no serious consideration at all. They need to be removed and, we have the VOTES to do it. JAYCEE urged community gardens and peoples community organization. That’s what Detroit is doing. BOGI666 points to the Republican “kill the gardens” mumble. That’s who they are folks!! Now they want you to “spite vote’em” back in office. HOLD THE LINE!! Vote Democratic—remove Blue Dogs-and wipe out the Republican Party. We’ll work on major change in the next Presidential Election.

    “Tweet Jebus”—I’m a long winded S.O.B !! I enjoy you ALL!! Thanks!!

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By anomar, July 20, 2010 at 1:02 pm Link to this comment

anomar, July 19 at 3:45 pm:

  ‘... Lovelock believes the majority of humans will die, and I now agree with him. ...’

By Anarcissie, July 20 at 4:31 pm #

“Present and historical evidence, and the laws of thermodynamics, suggest that that’s a slight underestimation.”

I don’t know about that.  Very small numbers of humans could survive almost anything.  Perhaps, their progeny would significantly different from us and therefore post-human.

For those reading these post as anti-technology: I see nothing below or above that is anti-technology and personally, I am as enamoured with my toys and running water as anyone.

We have used technology badly with malice aforethought.

Indigenous leaders now state openly that the Fifth World should include technology.  Humans are technology, nothing wrong with that. 

What is wrong is that we eat each other with our technology instead of reaching past that evil impulse.

Despite all that, it isn’t easy to die.  People will endure the most horrible conditions despite themselves.

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By nemesis2010, July 20, 2010 at 12:59 pm Link to this comment

At present time “renewable energy” is a wet dream. Solar and wind energy cannot replace carbon based energy. Both solar and wind require huge amounts of space and in the case of solar… the sun does not provide us with 5kv ac electricity! It has to be converted! Both sources are so unreliable that power companies still have to maintain carbon based systems operable so that demand can be met.

For those delusional enough to believe that you can survive on your own by living off your land or killing game you are… well… delusional! In cases of high starvation not only will only Homo sapiens kill you and make you a part of their meal using your veggies, but the government will step in, confiscate and control all food supplies. It will be a crime to grow food and not turn it in to the state.

It might be a good time to remember that in America’s first corporate town, Jamestown, Virginia, Englishmen were reduced to eating their own feces and the dead. There are accounts of Englishmen having dug up the three day old dead body of an Indian and eating every last bit of him. There is also the account of a husband murdering his wife while she slept in his arms, salting her, and eating all of her except for the head. Now… if people could not find adequate sustenance in a pristine environment like 16th and 17th century Virginia just how the hell do you suppose to survive in the ravaged lands of today?

What we are facing today is nothing new. It is the history of modern man. Homo sapiens have always lived nothing more than a hierarchical system of haves and have-nots –and it matters not what group of letter precede “ism.”  Democratic and liberty-minded (more egalitarian) societies tend toward more levels of “haves” and “have-nots” while dictatorial, autocratic, plutocratic, etc. societies (less egalitarian) have fewer levels. And the “haves” do not want to share any more than what they have to with the “have-nots.” The only reason the “haves” do share a little is because they are unable to survive without the cooperation of their henchmen class which is made up largely from lesser “haves” and higher levels of “have-nots.” The henchmen class controls the “have-nots” labor force on behalf of the “haves.”

The one big difference—as Hedges pointed out—is that there is no other “new land” to which one can flee. Even in ancient times that was limited due to technology and other tribes of just as desperate Homo sapiens. As unpleasant as it may seem to some, life is still all about survival.

If it weren’t for our technology—almost all of it based on power produced from carbon-based energy sources—mankind would have been starving to death long ago. In my lifetime—from a young teenager to about middle age—the world population doubled! It is estimated to reach over 9 billion within another two or three decades—something will have to give! Even with our technology and GMOs, 35,000 Homo sapiens die daily due to starvation. 25,000 of those are children. And fresh water will be even more important than food.

There’s a new article at Truthdig dealing with immigration and comments on that article are interesting given this article. For those of you who might be for open immigration and simultaneously believe the doomsday scenarios of this article you might want to try thinking rather than feeling about your convoluted positions. The maximum “carrying capacity” of the U.S. land mass is an estimated 300 million and our current population is an estimated 325 million and growing. Our overworked and dying soil can still produce mainly because of fertilizers and chemical additives provided from carbon-based sources! Farm equipment and technology for growing the vast amounts of food needed to feed a 6.8 billion human population depend on carbon based energy which provides the power needed. Energy and power are not the same!

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By Anarcissie, July 20, 2010 at 12:37 pm Link to this comment

WriterOnTheStorm, July 19 at 8:03 pm:

‘... What Chris has against reason is a mystery, unless it’s the trace of magical thinking still left from his school daze, or perhaps it’s bitterness toward reason’s TKO over god in the boxing ring of ideas. ...’

One illusion battering another.

“I win!  I win!” 
(beep)
“I win!  I win!”

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By Anarcissie, July 20, 2010 at 12:31 pm Link to this comment

anomar, July 19 at 3:45 pm:

‘... Lovelock believes the majority of humans will die, and I now agree with him. ...’

Present and historical evidence, and the laws of thermodynamics, suggest that that’s a slight underestimation.

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By maninwarren, July 20, 2010 at 11:25 am Link to this comment

My bad, here it is as tinyurl:

http://tinyurl.com/3887e46

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By maninwarren, July 20, 2010 at 11:24 am Link to this comment

Right on time:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2010/07/20/2010-
07-
20_china_passes_the_united_states_as_the_worlds_biggest
_consumer_of_energy_accordin.html

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By TWylite, July 20, 2010 at 11:12 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I was wondering where I read all of this before, and then it came to me: the Unabomober Manifesto. Basically, human civilization and technology is the enemy, and we must turn the clock back to some imagined golden age. Good luck with that! Building a time travel device is probably easier. Or according to some of the more deranged posters above: eradicate humanity. As though Hitler had the right idea, but he was too selective. Omnicide, not just genocide. This is the dead end of radical environmentalism: a naked hatred for humanity.

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By Ed Lytwak, July 20, 2010 at 10:49 am Link to this comment

Palestinian writer and activist Ramzy Baroud has said, “True resistance is a culture.” Many in the U.S. and worldwide know that our social, political and economic systems have gone horribly and tragically wrong but don’t know what to do or how to resist.  At its most basic, culture is how we make a living, the food we eat, the work we do, the way we interact with our fellow humans and the other creatures that share our world.  Older folks can remember a time when our food was not hyper-processed, chemical crap.  Some old-timers can even remember when most of our food did not come from huge multi-national corporations and their subsidiaries.  Some may even remember that food used to be lovingly cooked from fresh, whole ingredients by mothers and grandmothers. 

My point is that things were not always like they are today, and those times weren’t that long ago.  No, things weren’t perfect then, but we had a culture then, a real and for many a good culture.  My grandfather and father worked in a factory but they belonged to the union, we had neighbors and a community.  We often felt good about ourselves, our communities, our nation, our world.  When was the last time you really felt good about these things?

But so much of that is gone that many young people can’t even imagine a real world apart from the plastic, media-manufactured corporate culture that exists today.  Those old enough to remember what a genuine – though imperfect – culture was know deep in their hearts that what we have today is a sick, pathological shadow culture of media induced insatiable desires, disempowering illusions, fear, anger and loathing—a virtual reality provided to maximize corporate profits, dehumanize us as consumers and turn everything real and good into commodities.  We have traded a real existence to live as hungry ghosts.

It is time to resist.  It is time to reclaim our culture and our lives from the inverted corporate totalitarianism that has covered the earth like a dark pall.  It is time to once again grow our own food or get it from sources that put people, animals and the Earth before profits.  To buy the true necessities from those that treat us like people not consumers, that treat animals like sentient beings, that treat the web of life like our mother.  It is time to seek right livelihoods and do real useful work.  Work that does not dehumanize and is of benefits to others, not the corporate bottom line.  It is time to resist and liberate ourselves from the consume-at-all-costs corporate culture.  It is time to resist by sustaining life not corporate bottom lines. 

Growing our own food, finding right livelihoods has never been easy, even in the good old days.  Reclaiming our culture is not going to be easy.  In our world, if you want something easy, die.  Or, if you are too cowardly, lazy or ignorant to die, do something even easier, shut your brain down, watch TV 24/7 and be part of the masses of living dead. (this is the preferred existence of the corporate bosses, just be sure to continue consuming and vote for the corporate shill politician of your choice). 

Real living is not and never has been easy and living right in these times is down right difficult if not impossible.  Maybe, however, we should be more like Alice and “think of 6 impossible things to do before breakfast.”  True resistance is a culture and for all those that truly want to choose life over death, resist.  Reclaim your culture, reclaim yourself, your humanity, your kinship with the web of life.  True resistance is reclaiming how we make a living, the food we eat and not eat i.e. animals, the work we do, the small everyday ways we interact with our fellow humans and the other creatures that share our world..  Resistance is reclaiming a true culture from the corporate barbarism that is killing the planet.

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