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The War on Language

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Posted on Sep 28, 2009
AP / Mohammed Ballas

A Palestinian boy aims a toy gun as he stands next to a mural of militants in the West Bank’s Jenin refugee camp. The Arabic graffiti reads: “Many people held weapons but few used them against their enemies.”

By Chris Hedges

(Page 2)

The Arabic of the Quran is as poetic as the intricate theology of Islam. It is nuanced and difficult to master. But the language of the Quran has been debased in the slums and poor villages across the Middle East by the words and phrases of political Islam. This process is no different from what has taken place with Christianity in the United States. Our mainstream churches have been as complacent in fighting heretics as have the mainstream mosques and religious scholars in the Middle East. Demented forms of Christianity and Islam have largely supplanted genuine and more open forms of religious expression. And they have done so because liberal elites were cowed into silence.

Corruptions of Islamic terms and passages are as numerous in the militants’ ideology as in the ideology of the Christian right. The word jihad for the militants means the impunity to kill, kidnap, hijack and bomb anyone they see as an infidel, including children and other Muslims. Jihad, however, does not always mean holy war, or even war, in the Quran. According to Islamic tradition, the “great jihad” is the battle within one’s self to live in accord with God’s will. A jihad, for the prophet Muhammad, is often the struggle to achieve inner-worldly asceticism, in accord with his call “to command the good and forbid evil with the heart, the tongue and the hand.” And the Quran condemns the use of violence to propagate the faith. “There is no compulsion in religion,” it states. The Quran also denounces forced piety and conversion as insincere. Calls to martyrdom, presented by militants as a direct path toward eternal life, conveniently eschew the Quran’s rigid ban on suicide. But theological nuance is beside the point for zealots. The fantasies peddled by the Christian right, from the Rapture, which is not in the Bible, to the belief that Jesus, who was a pacifist, would bless wars in the Middle East, injects our own version of sanctified slogans into the vernacular. 

Our crisis is a crisis of language. Victor Klemperer in his book “Lingua Tertii Imperii” noted that the distortion of language by the Nazis was vital in creating fascist culture. He was repeatedly perplexed by how the masses, even those who opposed the Nazis, willingly ingested the linguistic poison the Nazis used to perpetuate collective self-delusion. “Words may be little doses of arsenic,” he wrote. “They are consumed without being noticed; they seem at first to have no effect, but after a while, indeed, the effect is there.”

Chris Hedges is the author of “Empire of Illusion: The End of Literacy and the Triumph of Spectacle.”

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ThomasG's avatar

By ThomasG, May 10, 2010 at 11:46 am Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt, May 10 at 3:03 pm,

Yeah, yeah, sure, sure.

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By Night-Gaunt, May 10, 2010 at 11:03 am Link to this comment

Sorry I out stripped your intellect again ThomasG. I forget how much of a weak thinker you really are. No real substance to your rants, just superficial slogans. Thanx for verifying that again for us.

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By ThomasG, May 10, 2010 at 10:56 am Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt, May 10 at 2:42 pm,

Yeah, yeah, sure, sure.

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By Night-Gaunt, May 10, 2010 at 10:04 am Link to this comment

Don’t be such an egotist ThomasG I am speaking about you, your comment, and the obvious error I saw in the analysis. You should know the difference.

But you seem to be more in line with Narcissus on this. So it fits into the subject here. I am speaking to you about your comment not speaking for you. In fact I cannot, wouldn’t and couldn’t. But your constant distortion of the language works as a fine example on this forum.

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By ThomasG, May 10, 2010 at 9:43 am Link to this comment

Again, Night Gaunt, you are speaking for me, when you say “your foolish error in playing favorites with the Democrats”.  I am definitely not in favor of playing favor with the Democrats.  The Democrats are the ones that co-operated with the Right-Wing Conservative Republican EXTREMISTS from the time of Goldwater through Reagan, Bush I and Bush II, and enabled the Right-Wing EXTREMIST Agenda in service to their own corporatist interests. 

I am in favor of the “American Populace-Back Street America” having a political party and using the Primary Election Process to take over the Democratic Party in order to make and enforce legislated law and order that will empower a Multi-Party Political System in the United States and represent the best interests of the 70% Majority Common Population, the “American Populace-Back Street America”, and I don’t need the likes of you or anyone else to put words in my mouth and speak for me.  What you say, you say for yourself.

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By Night-Gaunt, May 10, 2010 at 9:17 am Link to this comment

You are confused ThomasG I was not speaking for you but correcting your foolish error in playing favorites with the Democrats. Such selective myopia is an error. The history is there if you would just look at it in a less biased way. It would help you to get out of the way when the Democratic train is bearing down on you. It too will run you over. The leadership ship at least of of the same ilk as so many of the Republicans. Crypto-fascists who want to bankrupt the Republic so it will fall and replace it with a corporate theocracy. One without a Bill of Rights or the ACLU or freedom of speech. (These all get in the way of an otherwise smooth operation.)

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By ThomasG, May 10, 2010 at 8:49 am Link to this comment

To:  American Populace - Back Street America

Speak for yourself, Night Gaunt, you are not qualified and empowered to speak for me; and speaking for yourself in my name is a sign of trying to enforce your will like a petulant child.

As for Shenonymous, I speak when others will not about what should be voiced, is not voiced, and, if voiced, is shoulted down; if others speak it becomes unnecessary for me to speak.

From the time of Goldwater through Reagan, Bush I and Bush II, America went through a cycle of pauperization of the American populace based upon Malthusian Doctrine and trickle down Money Supply-Side Economics that destroyed the U.S. Economy and bankrupted the nation.

The United States is now in a cycle of dispauperization from a 21st Century Right-Wing Republican EXTREMIST Enclosure Movement that profited from exclusion of the populace from benefit of the U.S. Economy, much the same way that Malthusian Doctrine did to enable Capitalism in the 17th Century with the enclosure of the British populace and their pauperization for Capitalist profit.

The American populace is beginning to wake up from their sleep and realize that Capital, an asset that provides a revenue stream, does not have to be private, that Capital can be social as well as private——that Capital can provide a revenue stream for social as well as consumers, workers, and populace benefit without need to restrict Capital’s benefit strictly to private interests at the expense of the American populace.

I am advocating Capital benefit to the American populace and dispauperization of the American populace from the exercise of Malthusian Doctrine and Money Supply Side Economics from the time of Goldwater through Reagan, Bush I and Bush II, and I am encouraged that the sleepers of the American populace are beginning to rise from their slumber and advocate for their own best interests, rather than to continue to be passive sleepers enabling commerce of an economy that is not theirs, and bearing the labor that enables that economy without benefit, like the 17th Century peasants of Britain who were treated worse than slaves.

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By Night-Gaunt, April 28, 2010 at 10:48 am Link to this comment

The rise of fascism here isn’t empty. You can see where it has been making inroads, not just the corporate infiltration of our gov’t but also the extremist kind of Christianity called “Dominionism” both in gov’t, corporate and our military should be a warning. The ones who think the idea of a democratic gov’t with elections isn’t biblical. (They are right about that. You could call them the “American Ihatollas.”)

As usual ThomasG leaves out the Democrats Clinton & Obama who as bridge presidents get through what the obvious ones can’t. (Like NAFTA & warentless wire tapping is still going on, opaque gov’t etc.) He still thinks our two parties are more different than alike. (The leadership is in more agreement. Why they are do nothings.) Good thing is the Democrats still have some Progressives in it and might still be able to stop them, or at least slow them down. Maybe.

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By Shenonymous, April 28, 2010 at 10:22 am Link to this comment

ThomasG!  You are still alive!  I’m so glad for I wouldn’t want my
best nemesis to sink into Truthdipping oblivion.  There are others
trying to unseat you, but they are no where near as good!  They are just
Berate-Shenonymous-Wannabes.  You know the old psyche thing
where the beating is missed when it’s gone.  I don’t know if it is the
bruising or the attention received.  Is MarthaA still around too?  I
really do have admiration for her.  She is a tough old broad, well I don’t
know if she is old or not, but she seems to be older than most of the
chicks that show up on these forums.  Hey there is lots of socialists
and communists on a couple of other forums if you haven’t noticed. Aw
you probably did. Yeah, this capitalist Democrat is making some
comments in response.  Are you posting under a different pseudonym? 
Not too many using the caps and bolding so it is hard to tell.  Well,
glad you are still about.

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By ThomasG, April 28, 2010 at 10:09 am Link to this comment

WillK, April 21 at 7:09 pm,

Have more lofty desires and purpose than greed, and you and the Right-Wingers won’t have to be shamed by your own behavior and whining, as if your shame effects cause, that is a remedy for the effects upon others of your desire, purpose and behavior that causes you such shame.

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By WillK, April 21, 2010 at 3:09 pm Link to this comment

It shames me to see such flagrant use of empty language
like “Right Wing Extremists” and “Fascists” in comments
on an article about how we need to get beyond empty
rhetoric to find real meaning.

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By ThomasG, January 19, 2010 at 11:59 am Link to this comment

American Populace/Back Street America:

OzarkMichael says “Fascism will not give up, it is always push, push, push”; this is finally something I can agree with that OzarkMichael has said————the Fascist Agenda of the Republican Party and the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Fascist Media Echo Chamber “will not give up, it is always push, push, push” and has been “push, push, push” from the time of Goldwater, through Reagan, Bush I, Bush II to the present with OzarkMichael————on this we definitely have a point of agreement.

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By Night-Gaunt, January 19, 2010 at 11:35 am Link to this comment

Flow like water around an obstacle and move one. Sometimes it is better to bend like a willow than stand stiff as an oak.

Yes contribute to aid Haiti whatever you can and be careful for the scammers are out in force. If there are any should deserve a death penalty are corrupt politicians and those who profit off of others misery. From Xe on down that is.

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By OzarkMichael, January 18, 2010 at 10:51 am Link to this comment

Step #18 to fascism: Hitler wouldnt stop pushing his political agenda even when there was disaster. Hitler was always talking about his message all the time. Fascism does not let up. Its always push push push.

Shenonymous said: Please see, if you haven’t done so already, about making a contribution to whatever amount you can afford, to the truly devastated poor people and conditions in Haiti.  The Red Cross is a venue to do that.  Thank you.

Excellent idea. Thats the best thing to do this week. Even if we all give a little, it would add up to a lot.

Lets encourage each other to this for a few posts. If you have already given, give a little more.

Lets get off our butts today!

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By Shenonymous, January 18, 2010 at 10:21 am Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt, “One can’t reason with a brick wall.” seems like you have hit on a
point everyone can agree with.  That might be a crack in an otherwise grinding
bottleneck.  The crack however goes two directions, this way and that, else it
could continue to be a hole to nowhere, i.e., two black holes of ideology. 
Intransigent brick walls do need torn down, and that is the merit of a multi-brick
wall in that it can be more easily torn down than say, a concrete blockage.  I do
not mean to simply reduce all to the same level, but to allow some rational
dialogue to seep in.  That could be a worthy effort, no?
________________
On a completely non-related issue:  Please see, if you haven’t done so already,
about making a contribution to whatever amount you can afford, to the truly
devastated poor people and conditions in Haiti.  The Red Cross is a venue to do
that.  Thank you.

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By ThomasG, January 18, 2010 at 9:27 am Link to this comment

American Populace/Back Street America:

I identify completely with what Night-Gaunt says, “One can’t reason with a brick wall” and the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Media Echo Chamber that represents the Republican Party and Corporate Democrats is a brick wall.

All that can be done with a brick wall is to dismantle it, and what I say to the Republican Party is “Tear down that wall, Mr. Michael Steel”.

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By Night-Gaunt, January 17, 2010 at 11:09 pm Link to this comment

When you are dealing with antagonists who are ruled by ideology and a bad way of presenting their point of view one is at a loss. Eventually one must simply cut their losses and move on. One can’t reason with a brick wall.

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By ThomasG, January 15, 2010 at 10:32 am Link to this comment

American Populace/Back Street America:

Shenonymous’ post, January 15 at 4:46 am, makes a self-serving frame that justifies the actions of the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS against the American Populace/Back Street America, that is much the same as the Founding Fathers of the American Revolution and their descendant progeny made for slavery.

Shenonymous does not address the accusation, condemnation, denunciation, and speaking for others with misrepresentation and negative framing engaged in by the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS Media Echo Chamber of the Republican Party from the time of Goldwater through Reagan, Bush I, Bush II to the present; and says by her silence in this regard that the Left and Liberals of the American Populace/Back Street America, should accept and appease the abhorrent behavior of the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS.

It is not acceptable for the Republican Party, Shenonymous and her chorus to accuse, condemn, denounce, demonize, and speak for witnesses and messengers to misrepresent and frame the message of witnesses to atrocities against the Left and Liberals by the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Media Echo Chamber and the Republican Party, while at the same time supporting past, present and future continuation of the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Media Echo Chamber and Republican Party accusation, condemnation, denunciation, negative framing, and sophist propaganda of misrepresentation against the Left and Liberals.

If Shenonymous and her chorus do not choose to continue the policies of the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Media Echo Chamber and the Republican Party that they have pursued against the Left and Liberals for the past 50 Years, let them declare themselves against it, speak out against those same policies for the next 50 Years, and perhaps somewhere in the process they will begin to gain credibility for what they do, because credibility is NOT due for hollow words in the absence of deeds.

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By ThomasG, January 15, 2010 at 10:32 am Link to this comment

American Populace/Back Street America:

Shenonymous’ post, January 15 at 4:46 am, makes a self-serving frame that justifies the actions of the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS against the American Populace/Back Street America, that is much the same as the Founding Fathers of the American Revolution and their descendant progeny made for slavery.

Shenonymous does not address the accusation, condemnation, denunciation, and speaking for others with misrepresentation and negative framing engaged in by the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Media Echo Chamber of the Republican Party from the time of Goldwater through Reagan, Bush I, Bush II to the present; and says by her silence in this regard that the Left and Liberals of the American Populace/Back Street America, should accept and appease the abhorrent behavior of the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS.

It is not acceptable for the Republican Party, Shenonymous and her chorus to accuse, condemn, denounce, demonize, and speak for witnesses and messengers to misrepresent and frame the message of witnesses to atrocities against the Left and Liberals by the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Media Echo Chamber and the Republican Party, while at the same time supporting past, present and future continuation of the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Media Echo Chamber and Republican Party accusation, condemnation, denunciation, negative framing, and sophist propaganda of misrepresentation against the Left and Liberals.

If Shenonymous and her chorus do not choose to continue the policies of the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Media Echo Chamber and the Republican Party that they have pursued against the Left and Liberals for the past 50 Years, let them declare themselves against it, speak out against those same policies for the next 50 Years, and perhaps somewhere in the process they will begin to gain credibility for what they do, because credibility is NOT due for hollow words in the absence of deeds.

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By ThomasG, January 15, 2010 at 10:31 am Link to this comment

American Populace/Back Street America:

Shenonymous’ post, January 15 at 4:46 am, makes a self-serving frame that justifies the actions of the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS against the American Populace/Back Street America, that is much the same as the Founding Fathers of the American Revolution and their descendant progeny made for slavery.

Shenonymous does not address the accusation, condemnation, denunciation, and speaking for others with misrepresentation and negative framing engaged in by the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Media Echo Chamber of the Republican Party from the time of Goldwater through Reagan, Bush I, Bush II to the present; and says by her silence in this regard that the Left and Liberals of the American Populace/Back Street America, should accept and appease the abhorrent behavior of the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS.

It is not acceptable for the Republican Party, Shenonymous and her chorus to accuse, condemn, denounce, demonize, and speak for witnesses and messengers to misrepresent and frame the message of witnesses to atrocities against the Left and Liberals by the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Media Echo Chamber and the Republican Party, while at the same time supporting past, present and future continuation of the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Media Echo Chamber and Republican Party accusation, condemnation, denunciation, negative framing, and sophist propaganda of misrepresentation against the Left and Liberals.

If Shenonymous and her chorus do not choose to continue the policies of the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Media Echo Chamber and the Republican Party that they have pursued against the Left and Liberals for the past 50 Years, let them declare themselves against it, speak out against those same policies for the next 50 Years, and perhaps somewhere in the process they will begin to gain credibility for what they do, because credibility is NOT due for hollow words in the absence of deeds.

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By ThomasG, January 15, 2010 at 9:12 am Link to this comment

American Populace/Back Street America:

Night-Gaunt’s post, January 15 at 2:46 am, says “Curious how content doesn’t matter to some even when it shows a direct correlation to what they say time and time again”; in this regard I agree with Night-Gaunt, because the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Media Echo-Chamber and the Republican Party have been accusing, condemning, denouncing, and demonizing the Left and liberals from the time of Goldwater to the present and that is a fact that is inescapably self-evident.

With regard to Night-Gaunt’s statement, “Some deal in facts others in name calling”; the facts that are the activities of the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Media Echo-Chamber from the time of Goldwater to the present, that have been used by the Republican Party to accuse, condemn, denounce, and demonize the Left and liberals, are the facts that need to be dealt with, rather than OzarkMichael, Night-Gaunt, Shenonymous and Leefeller making every effort they can to accuse, condemn, denounce, and demonize the messenger that brings himself as a witness to those reprehensible facts and Hitleresque tactics.

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By Shenonymous, January 15, 2010 at 12:46 am Link to this comment

What is the net outcome of this forum?  No movement on one side has been
made not in the least and that means zero success.  That must be a bitter pill. 
On the other side, an integration of unlikely actors normally with divergent
principles politically and otherwise who now have an unsaid empathy and have
come to a better understanding of each other, even an admiration perhaps not
prior felt borne precisely from the perversion of one with a cold, crass, and
malevolent disposition.  A lack of understanding human nature is at work on
one side while on the other an establishment of greater respect for the
rectitude of fellow humans and an unexpected unity. 

The reality is that there is no sinister cabal intent on undermining the integrity
of our country in even the remotest guise at least by these few who have been
thrown together and endured a constant and relentless barrage of raving
accusations.  Not one shred of evidence was ever put forth with the
accusations, only accusations of the libelous sort and in the most bizarre, foul-
mouthed and graphic manner.  We have witnessed here what festering
derangement looks like in print. 

The ranting and posturing will probably continue but it will be for naught, for
nothing, a complete waste of energy and I will pay no attention to it and I
suggest that all others do likewise.  There are far better things to do with one’s
time.

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By Night-Gaunt, January 14, 2010 at 10:46 pm Link to this comment

Curious how content doesn’t matter to some even when it shows a direct correlation to what they say time and time again. Some deal in facts others in name calling. Who wins? Hopefully those who have more than insinuations and diatrabe over facts.

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By ThomasG, January 14, 2010 at 4:19 pm Link to this comment

American Populace/Back Street America:

As a witness and messenger, I have no interest at all in calling OzarkMichael, Night-Gaunt, Shenonymous, Leefeller, or anyone else—names.

The fact is that OzarkMichael and his chorus use accusation, condemnation, denunciation, demonization, negative framing, misrepresentation, and speak for others to frame what others say and anyone who reads a thread on which they post will learn that what OzarkMichael and Night-Gaunt calls facts are nothing more than the facts of their own accusation, condemnation, denunciation, demonization, negative framing, misrepresentation, and UNAUTHORIZED speech for others in pursuit of their own self-serving sophism and propaganda.

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By Night-Gaunt, January 14, 2010 at 12:50 pm Link to this comment

Ozark Michael is going about it in the proper way. He actually shows where the other is acting instead of them lamely calling him such. He shows the facts and they will stick long after the name calling has faded. Good show!

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By OzarkMichael, January 14, 2010 at 11:57 am Link to this comment

I am not a Republican right wing extremist. i am not actually a memeber of the Republican party. But no matter.

Martha/Thomas patterns herself after Adolf Hitler. She is quite the extremist.

So Martha/Thomas and i disagree. Who should you believe?

Martha/Thomas wants to tell you what you must think.

Rather than take her word for it, read the posts on this thread. Then you can decide for yourself whether Martha/Thomas or myself is the extreme one.

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By ThomasG, January 14, 2010 at 10:11 am Link to this comment

American Populace/Back Street America:

There OzarkMichael goes again continuing his same old, tired, Hitleresque rhetoric of accusation, condemnation, denunciation, demonization, negative framing, misrepresentation, and speaking for others to put his sophism and propaganda into their mouths to perpetuate Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS efforts to dominate and subdue the Left and liberals in support of a Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Agenda.  You are following Right-Wing Republican EXTREMISTS, aren’t you <b>OzarkMichael?

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By OzarkMichael, January 13, 2010 at 5:28 pm Link to this comment

Martha/Thomas and I have had on argument for the last month or so.

I contend that she is following Mein Kampf, and I have proven it too.

If anyone should ever read this, please do not take my word for it, but read for yourself the last few pages on this blog.

Judge for yourself. Do not let Martha/Thomas decide for you.

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By ThomasG, January 13, 2010 at 4:42 pm Link to this comment

American Populace/Back Street America:

There OzarkMichael goes again in his January 13 at 4:05 pm post with the same, old, tired, rhetoric of Accusation, Condemnation, Denunciation, Demonization, Negative Framing, Misrepresentation, and Speaking For Others to put his sophism and propaganda into their mouths to perpetuate Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS efforts to dominate and subdue the Left and liberals in support of a Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Agenda ———— Who would have thunk that OzarkMichael would do such a thing? —— Go figure.

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By OzarkMichael, January 13, 2010 at 12:05 pm Link to this comment

If anyone should ever read this, be very careful when you read martha/Thomas and her decietful accusations.

Martha/Thomas asked “BR549, Shenonymous, Night Gaunt”, and myself a question a week ago on this forum.

Now she is crowing that since no one answered her question here that proves we are all Right wing extremists and we need to be silenced:
It is interesting that OzarkMichael, Night-Gaunt, Shenonymous, Leefeller and BR549 never saw fit to respond to this post, which is definitive of the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Media Echo-Chamber tactics and behavior from Goldwater through Reagan, Bush I, Bush II to the present time, and asks the question of whether or not the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Media Echo-Chamber should be given FREE REIGN to pursue their sophism and propaganda…


But we did answer the question. Since BR549 has never been on this forum, i assumed Martha/Thomas meant to post somewhere else, and so i answered her question there.

And Martha/Thomas knows this, because she wrote a response there.

Anyone reading this… you can see that i am right by checking the forum “Rogue Evita” and find my answer to her and then her response to it. Also, scroll down this post and you will find there is no “BR548” posting here. There is not a single post by BR549 on this thread. BR549 doesnt read this thread.

To demand an answer from someone who isnt present, and then to use their silence as an excuse to remove their freedom, is a terrible trick to play.

Anyone else would apologize, but Martha/Thomas wont apologize because such tricks are her favorite methods. It is deceitful, it is Hitleresque.

In fact it is a Step to fascism straight from Mein Kampf.

STEP to Fascism #18, in fact. This is the 18th consecutive time that martha/Thomas has copied the methods of Mein Kampf.

If anyone should ever read this, be very careful when you read Martha/Thomas and her deceitful accusations.

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By Leefeller, January 13, 2010 at 8:03 am Link to this comment

Seeing my name on this thread is most amusing, since I have not posted for a very long time. Cannot think of any good times posting here on this thread for talking to a rock or in the case of Thomas G seems to believe in presenting only nothing os substance only repetitious futility. I have learned one thing, fanatics promoting a cause are real, TG seems a close definition of solipsist in nature. 

Farewell for I saw Uranus quite a long time ago, Thomas G. In fact, way before you came along.

Enjoy and hope to read some of the other poster   on future articles in TD. Had way to much Tequila over the holidays, you know! Party hardy right wing think tanks can be like that. 

  Farewell all even Thomas G and his seemingly sick mental condition, hope he takes something for it!

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By ThomasG, January 13, 2010 at 6:51 am Link to this comment

American Populace/Back Street America:

It is interesting that OzarkMichael, Night-Gaunt, Shenonymous, Leefeller and BR549 never saw fit to respond to this post, which is definitive of the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Media Echo-Chamber tactics and behavior from Goldwater through Reagan, Bush I, Bush II to the present time, and asks the question of whether or not the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Media Echo-Chamber should be given FREE REIGN to pursue their sophism and propaganda, or whether it is appropriate that what goes around from the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Media Echo-Chamber should come back around from the Left and Liberals, as a response to Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST sophism and propaganda.

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By ThomasG, January 5, 2010 at 1:35 pm Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt, January 5 at 2:52 pm,

My common answer to Night-Gaunt applies also to OzarkMichael, BR549, Shenonymous, and Leefeller.

Do you agree or disagree that a philosophy filled with infernal intolerance will only be broken by a new idea, driven forward by the same spirit, championed by the same mighty will, and at the same time pure and absolutely genuine in itself?

The above poser was the perspective of the Republican Right-Wing Conservative Revolution, the basis of the sophism and propaganda of the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Media Echo-Chamber and the Doctrine of the Revolutionary War against Britain by the American Colonies.

Do “you people” accept or reject this philosophy, if not, why not?——and, if so, why so?

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By Night-Gaunt, January 5, 2010 at 10:52 am Link to this comment

I got the same “very speeeecial” treatment you did Ozark Michael as will others. He is easily intimidated by the good use of language. I was accused of being “smart” once and in this country it is a fate worse than death. Welcome to the club of brainiacs and intellectuals!

In any system it is the human that can make it good for all or bad for most on any political spectrum. The threat in this country now is mainly from the religious right the left doesn’t have the capacity too even if those in it wanted to be totalitarian. The have the money, backing, will and want to do it. Only a few at the top need know what the ultimate plan is the rest will follow naturally if allowed to be cruel, greedy and powerful over others. But then Christianity isn’t democratic or republican at all it is totalitarian at its base. It is the people who make something good or not. However the more narrow the political order the harder it is to be good in it.

Last time ThomasG prove your point or don’t expect to be noticed again. Declaring something doesn’t prove it. Debate 101. You are a popped bubble, a loser, a slanderer who is his own worse enemy. Congratulations and please continue!!

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By ThomasG, January 5, 2010 at 8:37 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous, January 5 at 4:27 am,

YOUR post, Shenonymous, is accusatory slander, to use YOUR OWN terms.

As I recently told Night-Gaunt, if you want to know why I say YOU and YOUR chorus are Hitleresque, READ “Mein Kampf” and lose your prating prattle of expectation that I will as YOUR Mommy or YOUR Daddy explain things to you as a child, just because YOU, like a truculent child, ridicule, rage and rant.

READ Adolph Hitler’s “Mein Kampf”, instead of blindly following its precepts that are inculcated into you by your minders, and then YOU will be able to tell ME why I say YOU and YOUR chorus are Hitleresque.

The Republican Party uses Adolph Hitler’s “Mein Kampf” as a political playbook, and “you people” follow its precepts that are indoctrinated into you by your Republican Party minders and deny that you are doing so.

YOU and YOUR chorus want to maintain plausible deniability for YOUR Hitleresque sophism and propaganda and project what YOU and YOUR chorus are doing off onto othersDo NOT ask me to be complicit in YOUR obfuscation of YOU and YOUR chorus’s Hitleresque behavior, because I will not. Do NOT ask me to explain YOUR OWN Hitleresque behavior to YOU like an irresponsible and truculent child, because I will not. Do NOT ask me to prove YOUR OWN behavior to YOU, as if YOU are ignorant of YOUR OWN behavior and are unaware of what you do, because I will not. ——————  READ “Mein Kampf” and use YOUR OWN insight to change the Hitleresque behavior of YOU and YOUR chorus, rather than blaming others for what YOU do, and asking others to make explanation and excuse for what YOU do.

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By ThomasG, January 5, 2010 at 7:56 am Link to this comment

OzarkMichael, January 5 at 1:03 am,

Look, you are acting like a peabrain;———Are you a peabrain?  I read “Mein Kampf” when I was young and, as a result, I recognize what “you people” and the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS follow as political tactics of sophism and propaganda as being the same as what Adolph Hitler wrote about in “Mein Kampf”.

If “you people” want to accuse, condemn, denounce, and demonize me for pointing out “you people’s” Hitleresque behavior, the Republican Party’s Hitleresque behavior, and the Hitleresque behavior of the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Media Echo-Chamber, like Hitler—— that is what “you people” will do; “you people” started out willfully mischaracterizing me as practicing Hitleresque behavior as a means of denying YOUR OWN complicit Hitleresque behavior and responsibility for Hitleresque sophism and propaganda, and I expect that you will continue to do so in an effort to shed responsibility for YOUR OWN reprehensible Hitleresque behavior.

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By Shenonymous, January 5, 2010 at 12:27 am Link to this comment

ThomasG:  It is not necessary to engage in foolishness to reject foolishness.  It
is more fun to reject your foolishness with my foolishness!  Levity not gravity is
my motto. 

Yes, it is true BR459 got a good take on me on the Rogue Evita forum, but
clearly he has a better take on you and he is rowing his own boat just fine.  If
there was a moment of animosity between he and I, it has been defused from
our reasonableness and willingness to explain ourselves!  Looks to me like you
stung yourself ThomasG and brother BR jumped off your ship and he explains
why.  That was an abrupt mutiny.

You are a selfish and pompous soul, ThomasG.  And as I noted on the other
forum, I am weary of your tirades and accusations.  No one wants you to
explain Mein Kampf to anyone.  I own it and have browsed it enough to see
how ugly was Hitler’s project.  And I have read thoroughly the 25 steps toward
a National Socialism which was almost identical to the Italian fascism.  I do not
support the Republican project, nor does Night-Gaunt, and neither did Hitler. 
Hitler was a Socialist, his was a state socialism of fascism and explicitly racist,
an anti-semite.  But I am a liberal and support social programs I do not
support a socialist fascist government.  What Night-Gaunt and I ask is for you
to show how OM uses subjectification of objective reality with respect to
Goldwater through Bush II, and how Hitler did as well since you make the
comparison
?  You did not give the activities of the RR-WCEME-C as
an example of RPHsofism, Hitleresque propaganda and Hitleresque
indoctrination of the American Populace.  You simply made the declaration that
it was an example but you did not say what those activities were.  You
accuse that group of abhorrent behavior but do not say what that
behavior is.  It is you who acts like Hitler using his strategy to make your
baseless accusations.  You use many adjectives but do not say in what
way those adjectives apply to the Republicans.  Your claims are like chapter
titles without any chapter content.  You rail but do not explain what
would be an “equitable socialzed benefit throughout the Pyramid of the
economy, how would you deprive those at the top, how would you distribute
the capital?  You make empty accusations.  You copy paste ideas of others like
Orwell but do not say how they apply today.  You make accusations
completely devoid of wisdom and good sense and speak like a tyrant that all
should believe your unexplained accusations.  Yes your socialism is very much
like Hitler’s.

One last thing before I withdraw from this discussion:  You have a set of beliefs
and no one is asking you to cease to hold them or adhere or relinquish them. 
They obviously and intimately define you.  But when you accuse others of
heinous actions then you are required to explain exactly what you mean. 
Otherwise you commit slander.  Because you hide behind a secret ID on
a blog does not absolve you of slander.  You are a slanderous fool. 
You and your slander are not worth another minute of my attempt to
hold up for all to see your slander and abusive attacks.  You have done it
for so long that now everyone who reads Truthdig knows you and your
slander.  You are a malicious and slanderous fool and I for one do
not care any longer if you drown in your own slander.

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By OzarkMichael, January 4, 2010 at 9:03 pm Link to this comment

Martha/Thomas said: Most likely, I am the only one of you and your chorus that has read Adolph Hitler’s, “Mein Kampf”.

Look, we all know how much Mein Kampf means to you. Mein Kampf makes me ill, and i cant read it anymore. I cant believe you are still studying it, and making constant references to it.

Is the idea of total and complete understanding of Hitler your calling in life. You have told us that you dont want just good or bad Hitler, you want ALL Hitler.  Is that what you want to be known for?

So enough already. But you are never satisfied. You want more recognition of your Mein Kampf primacy. As if you know it by heart.

It isnt good for you. but OK.

You, Martha/Thomas are the queen of Mein Kampf!

If Hitler was touring you would attend all his concerts. You would be standing in line before anyone else woke up. You would buy all his albums. You are his #1 fan, his groupie. When he comes through town and Eva Braun stays home, you are his girl for the night.

You earn it too. Eva is probably jealous. 

If you were a cable network you would be advertised as:

The Martha/Thomas Network: “All Hitler, all the time”

Satisfied? Or sick of it all?

I close with a little advice, which is a favor:

Try not to think about Hitler for awhile. Even if you claim to be his enemy, by thinking about him so much you have gravitated into his style and copied substance. It is warping your mind.

Put Mein Kampf down and focus on being a human being. Is that what you want to be known for? Knowing Mein Main Kampf better than anyone? The cold, hard pretension of objectivity is Hitleresque. Did you know you copied Hitler’s style? And his steps? Maybe on purpose or maybe not, I dont know. Either way it obliterates your humanity.

Night Gaunt really tried for a long time to be a friend to you, and you could not relate. It has to do with understanding yourself in relationships. It is the art of subjectivity.

Once you get the hang of that, we can talk about Love. And then Truth. Put those together, and you are close to being a Christian. We can leave Mein Kampf far behind, and you can have a much better message.

Or is it back to Mein Kampf?

Your choice.

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By ThomasG, January 4, 2010 at 7:44 pm Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt, January 4 at 5:14 pm,

Most likely, I am the only one of you and your chorus that has read Adolph Hitler’s, “Mein Kampf”.

If you want to know why I say you and your chorus are Hitleresque, read “Mein Kampf” and lose the prating, prattle of expectation that I will explain things to you, because you ridicule and rage like a truculent child.

Read Adolph Hitler’s “Mein Kampf” for yourself, instead of blindly following its precepts that are inculcated into you by your minders and then you will be able to explain to me why I say you and your chorus are Hitleresque.

The Republican Party uses Adolph Hitler’s “Mein Kampf” as a political play book and “you people” follow its precepts indoctrinated into you by your Republican Party minders and deny that you are doing so; do not ask me to explain things to you like an irresponsible child——Read Mein Kampf, gain understanding, and then you will be more worthy for me to talk to.

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By ThomasG, January 4, 2010 at 7:07 pm Link to this comment

OzarkMichael, January 4 at 7:43 pm,

OzarkMichael said: “OzarkMichael said: “How many of you are in there?””

ThomasG’s answer:  Just me.  With regard to your post, according to you, you are just so very speeeeeechial, aren’t you?  I’m happy for you that you feel so very blessed and that you credit me with all of your blessings.  I am certain that in the future you will show gratitude in your posts for all of the blessings that you say I have bestowed upon you.

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By OzarkMichael, January 4, 2010 at 3:43 pm Link to this comment

OzarkMichael said: “How many of you are in there?”

ThomasG’s answer:  You first.

Its only me. I dont pretend to be two or three people.

Just me. I have never met the other people who post on Truthdig. We are not politically united, we are actually opponents. Even though i usually harrass them i like them very much. Would i like to meet them? Yes, i would.

I have been alone for 2 years on Truthdig, arguing against many who would accuse conservatives of all sorts of bad things. But you martha/Thomas, managed to force liberals to be my friends. If I am no longer alone, it is thanks to your message. I am finding that they arent so bad, and they are finding that i am not so bad. 

Such as Night Gaunt, because i can tell he is a good hearted person. I have wanted him to realize the danger of accusing people of fascism, and of conspiracy theories. By myself i was unsuccessful, he was suspicious of me. But then, Martha/Thomas, you came along and now Night-Gaunt can see exactly what I was talking about. You provide an example of the danger, which is your own evil message. 

And Shenonymous who is a smart person but an atheist… she has seen where religion can lead and she doesnt like it. I have wanted her to trust Jesus. I wasnt getting anywhere for two years. But then, along came Martha/Thomas, and now Shenonymous is horrified at where atheism can lead. Because of you, Martha/Thomas. You have lied and decieved so much that Shenonymous would consider fleeing to the cross of Jesus rather than be associated with you. I wouldnt be surprised to find out that she is going to Bible studies now.   

Because of you, Martha/Thomas, I am not alone in the battle against people like you. Before i was alone against the avalanche of name calling and demonization of conservative Christians, and that was hard. Not anymore.  I bet if somebody called me a fascist for no reason except that i am a conservative Christian, they would stick up for me. I reckon that i have friends here now. thanks to you, Martha/Thomas.

But for all that, there is no one here but me.

So i have talked, and now its your turn, Martha/Thomas. How many of you are in there?

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By Night-Gaunt, January 4, 2010 at 1:14 pm Link to this comment

Okay Brownshirt ThomasG why don’t you in fact dissect how what I was saying was in any way “Hitleresque” instead of simply labeling it so? I know you don’t have the gray cells to do it. You are all bombast and foot stomping, no finesse at all. You’re not a diplomat, you are an uruk-hai general. That is why most any of us can tear your tirades apart so easily because they have no substance.

You are a soap bubble and as substantial.

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By ThomasG, January 4, 2010 at 4:37 am Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt, January 4 at 3:25 am,

Little tiny Hitler’s like you, OzarkMichael, Shenonymous and Leefeller, standing on your soap box saying “Come let us reason together” in Hitleresque terms sounds strangely inappropriate and equivalent to Adolph Hitler, including the word “Socialist” in the name of his political party, the National Socialist Deutch Arbeiter Party.

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By Night-Gaunt, January 3, 2010 at 11:25 pm Link to this comment

“I could not help but notice that BR549 got a good take on you, Shenonymous, almost immediately—and it won’t be long until he has the same understanding about OzarkMichael, Night-Gaunt and Leefeller, because you all like the scorpion in the story of “The Scorpion and The Frog” will not be able to deny your nature.”-ThomasG

So far you are acting like the scorpion to we the frogs. We wish to help to understand and you wish to sting us if we aren’t 100% with you. Projection again, tsk, tsk!

I’m not a Republican, I’m the only one in my family that isn’t! You would know that if you weren’t so shuttered in your box, those blinders should be taken off. I could use the $$$. No I just don’t like the way you operate & your language which is violent. You sound like a brown shirt. [Hint, that is Hitleresque.] Think Gandhi over Himmler why don’t you? Did you know that Gandhi wrote a letter to Hitler begging him not to start a war?

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By ThomasG, January 3, 2010 at 7:27 pm Link to this comment

OzarkMichael, January 3 at 8:17 pm,

OzarkMichael said: “How many of you are in there?”

ThomasG’s answer:  You first.  Tell me about the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Boiler Room that you,OzarkMichael, Shenonymous, Night-Gaunt, and Leefeller work in; is it a virtual boiler room linked by computers or is it an actual boiler room where you each have your own little cubicle?  Who all is there, other than “you people”? and—-  What does the Republican Party pay “you people” for your services as sophist propagandists?

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By ThomasG, January 3, 2010 at 7:14 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, January 3 at 5:44 pm,

It is not necessary to engage in foolishness to reject foolishness.

I have gone through the process of explaining in great detail in past posts that you choose to ignore, and to continue to do so would be counter-productive since, as sophist propagandists, you and your ilk would do what you always do, and that is to wait until the thread is gone and start your same old sophist propaganda spiel all over again as if it is new.

When others emerge on Truthdig that are not a part of your chorus, to the degree that they are ingenuous, I will spend time with them just as I did with you, going into great detail with specific explanation.  However, you and your chorus have demonstrated “you people” are nothing more than sophist propagandists that I do not feel the need to be bothered with.  With regard to the greater audience, I am certain that they know who and what you are by your behavior on Truthdig and who and what I am by my behavior on Truthdig, and with that I am content.

I could not help but notice that BR549 got a good take on you, Shenonymous, almost immediately—and it won’t be long until he has the same understanding about OzarkMichael, Night-Gaunt and Leefeller, because you all like the scorpion in the story of “The Scorpion and The Frog” will not be able to deny your nature.

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By OzarkMichael, January 3, 2010 at 4:17 pm Link to this comment

Thomas G: I was talking with MarthaA and others here

How many of you are in there?

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By Shenonymous, January 3, 2010 at 1:44 pm Link to this comment

Why ThomasG, you let MarthaA out!  Yayyyyy!  Now she can face OM directly
instead of through your brain.  Well only if you let her use the computer and
use your login but then tell us it is she!  I am impressed I am the topic of
discussion with you and your cadre.  See… I am already on the top floor. 
SlickTom….you added another word to your former description of
yesterday….‘toady.’  One of my favorite words in your limited vocabulary.  I can
see you are unnerved by all the good questions put to you by the Outlander
Four!  Well Outlander Three until Leefeller shows up again.  Especially OM’s. 
His are better than mine.  But you know when the Leefeller does show up, he
will have some relevant questions for you.  Must you resort to name-calling
ThomasG?  Meaning why are you so obsessive about it?  You do realize it is an
illness, don’t you?

Let’s seeee…returning to the topic of the forum, you imagine you answered
OzarkMichael’s new set of questions (episode 16) but you did not.  You are
unable to answer because you do not have a definitive answer, and resort to
using only slogans.  You do not show exactly how OM uses subjectification of
objective reality with respect to Goldwater through Bush II and how Adolph
Hitler did as well, quite unlike the thorough explanation OM gives to show how
you deceptively use Mein Kampf yourself as a guide. 

There I have given you specific examples of what questions you are deflecting
from answering.  You try to misdirect, the magician’s trick of sleight of hand.  A
very good game strategy.  And you have made the phrase subjectification of
objective reality up thinking it appears intellectual but in reality, ThomasG, it
has no content.  You only made a sentential comparison between the activities
of the RR-WCEME-C and claim that hassome similitude to Hitleresque
propaganda.  You have not specified what Hitleresque propaganda is either.  Or
if you did please provide the day and time you did and I will go back into the
forum and find it and offer an apology and say I was wrong.  WOW I am offering
a lot!  As an intentional misperception of what he is doing on your part, OM
does not accuse you as a messenger for the Republican Party, but he does
point out the similarities between your rants and Hitler’s.  Hitler was not a
Republican, he was a National Socialist.  Night-Gaunt intuits what you are
doing as well.  And thanks to OM, both Leefeller and myself now see the
alignment of the stars ThomasG and his mentor Adolf Hitler!

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By ThomasG, January 3, 2010 at 12:55 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, January 3 at 12:18 pm,

If you took what I said as a compliment it could only be because you have understood what I said on the level of an Epsilon-Minus Semi-Moron; did you understand what I said about being superior on the level of an Epsilon-Minus Semi-Moron?  Or, are you like OzarkMichael, trying to mischaracterize what I said as you and your Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST and cooperative enabling toady ilk always do in order to glorify yourselves in the perception of others against the reality of your own self-loathing for your reprehensible behavior?

I was talking with MarthaA and others here regarding the status of your abilities, and it was decided to put the question to you as to whether you are a “Nullset” or an “Epsilon-Minus Semi-Moron, which is it? ———— Are your naturally occurring or have you been genetically engineered?

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By ThomasG, January 3, 2010 at 12:54 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, January 3 at 12:18 pm,

If you took what I said as a compliment it could only be because you have understood what I said on the level of an Epsilon-Minus Semi-Moron; did you understand what I said about being superior on the level of an Epsilon-Minus Semi-Moron?  Or, are you like OzarkMichael, trying to mischaracterize what I said as you and your Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST and cooperative enabling toady ilk always do in order to glorify yourselves in the perception of others against the reality of your own self-loathing for your reprehensible behavior?

I was talking with MarthaA and others here regarding the status of your abilities, and it was decided to put the question to you as to whether you are a “Nullset” or an “Epsilon-Minus Semi-Moron, which is it? ———— Are your naturally occurring or have you been genetically engineered?

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By ThomasG, January 3, 2010 at 12:35 pm Link to this comment

OzarkMichael, January 3 at 1:48 am,

YOU mischaracterize what I say in my name in order to spew your vitriol of sophism and propaganda; because I openly said I had read Adolph Hitler’s book, “Mein Kampf” and that the Republican Party and Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS have been using subjectification of objective reality the same way Adolph Hitler did for political purpose from the time of Goldwater through Reagan, Bush I and Bush II, and YOU are doing so at the present time.

I gave the activities of the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Media Echo-Chamber from the time of Goldwater to the present as an example of Republican Party Hitleresque sophism, Hitleresque propaganda and Hitleresque indoctrination of the American Populace; and YOU, instead of responding to my message that I have lived through and witnessed, choose to attack me as the witness and the messenger and continue to do so, because you cannot defend the abhorrent behavior of the Republican Party and the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Media Echo-Chamber from the time of Goldwater to the present.

You have chosen to mischaracterize and blame me as a witness and messenger for the abhorrent behavior practiced by the Republican Party and Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS that is disgusting and outrageous sophism, propaganda, and indoctrination of Hitleresque Doctrine and Dogma used against the American Populace from the time of Goldwater to the present; anyone that was not born yesterday knows that what you claim in your prating prattle of sophism and propaganda is ludicrous and amorphous nonsense.

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By Shenonymous, January 3, 2010 at 8:18 am Link to this comment

Good morning - Oh ThomasG, you are trying to endear yourself to me with your
compliments.  But you simply babble them.  You did say the word ‘superior’ two
times, and I am affected!  But is that simply a ruse because you cannot respond to
any of the Ozark’s or Night-Gaunt’s or my questions?

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By OzarkMichael, January 2, 2010 at 9:48 pm Link to this comment

Thoams G said: Socialism in the United States has been successful and has provided communal services from 1776 to the present time

The social programs from 1776 did not partake of your National Socialism, and you know it. So it really is two diffent things, isnt it?

Hitler tried to make it sound like his National Socialism was not a new kind of Socialism, but merely a restoration of the good old kind of Socialism. Which was a lie.

That just so happens to be STEP #15 to fascism.

So stop lying, Marthas/Thomas.  Stop trying to link your evil National socialism with the good traditions and history of this country. Just admit that your Nazi plan is fascism.

Or just keep lying. I dont care anymore. Besides, the more you talk the more you prove that you are 100% Nazi, following every step of Hitler’s Playbook.

You are now 16 out of 16 steps! Incredible how you pattern yourself after Adolf Hitler.

I used to think it was accidental. But not 16 out of 16. That cant be a coincidence. You really are quite the fascist.

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By ThomasG, January 2, 2010 at 5:03 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, January 2 at 8:42 pm,

I know that you are speaking from your own personal experience of being an offensive prating savant blowhard preaching prattle and in this respect I recognize your superior ability to preach prating savant prattle.

You, Shenonymous, are a superior prating prattle preacher.  There now, I gave you a compliment; are you happy now?

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By Shenonymous, January 2, 2010 at 4:42 pm Link to this comment

The pot in which you boil things down, ThomasG needs scoured.  You try to distill,
or boil down everything to suit your own inconsequential definitions of
everything.  You have no argument so you try to shape me into something less
than you, because you have the sickness called the superiority complex.  If you
had a better education you might be dangerous, but all you have is skill at calling
names and copy/pasting.  You couldn’t recognize erudition if it smacked you in
the septim.  You are a defensive blowhard and have very little to offer.

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By ThomasG, January 2, 2010 at 4:09 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, January 2 at 6:51 pm,

All of what you said boils down to politics being “leadership of constituents in their best interest and non-constituents against their best interests”; if you are an Epsilon, it is a waste of time to try to explain to you.

Are you an Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta or Epsilon?  You tell me, and then I will be better able to judge whether or not I am wasting my time talking to you. Based on the “Brave New World” by Aldous Huxley, the way you have been and continue to act, I suspect an “Epsilon-Minus Semi-Moron” like the elevator operator.

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By Shenonymous, January 2, 2010 at 2:51 pm Link to this comment

You are really dense, using the word noble was a joke, because in reality
politicians are the furthest thing from being noble and there is not one shred of
nobility in politics.  When used as an adjective, noble means having high moral
qualities.  Good grief is your brain that dried out?

politics as a
noun:  the profession devoted to governing and to political affairs
noun:  the study of government of states and other political units
noun:  the opinion you hold with respect to political questions
noun:  social relations involving authority or power

When used with a singular verb, politics is the art or science of government or
governing, especially the governing of a political entity, such as a nation, and
the administration and control of its internal and external affairs.

When used with a sing. or pl. verb, politics is the activity or activities or affairs
engaged in by a government, politician, or political party, or

politics is the methods or tactics involved in managing a state or government,
or

politics is the intrigue or maneuvering within a political unit or group in order
to gain control or power, or

politics is political attitudes and positions, or

politics is the often internally conflicting interrelationships among people in a
society.

Politics, although plural in form, takes a singular verb when used to refer to
the art or science of governing or to political science.

Now this is quite definitive of the word politics, ThomasG, so m’thinks it is you
who is confusing the process of leadership of constituents with what politics is
definitively.

But it is now a moot point since you are making no point, and using a not so
clever maneuvering process of forcing a distinction between definition and
process to avoid answering definitively the questions put to you.

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By ThomasG, January 2, 2010 at 2:14 pm Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt, January 2 at 6:04 pm,

More accusation, condemnation, denunciation and demonization of the witness and messenger, rather than ingenuous response to the testimony of the messenger.

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By ThomasG, January 2, 2010 at 2:06 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, January 2 at 5:29 pm,

??????? Leadership of constituents in their best interest and non-constituents against their best interest is the definition of politics.

What you are talking about is the process of politics.

Where did you get the idea that politics has anything to do with nobility?

Politics like the elements on the Periodic Chart of the Elements is neither noble nor ignoble, politics simply is.

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By Night-Gaunt, January 2, 2010 at 2:04 pm Link to this comment

I can give a few, but nobility isn’t a definition of perfection—in the real world that is. I would never get into politics for those reasons you have given and many I could name. It is a muddy, dirty business and very few can get into it and do it for good reasons.

To me ThomasG, and poor MarthaA in her solitude, are of the rough dog school of machine gun bullet point writing. Bang, bang, bang; again and again with little else to show for it. ThomasG claims we are attacking the messenger and ignoring his message. Well if Mussolini was telling me about the Constitution I would have trouble believing anything he said. Especially if he was shouting and gesturing and whooping and stomping when he did it. Yes sometimes it is the messenger when the messenger isn’t neutral or decent. Your style reeks of fascism in its most histrionic and truculent form. Even the Beatitudes would sound bad coming out of your mouth the way you speak. The phone book would sound dangerous as you shout it out with threats to any who do not immediately agree with you. Fascist and other ideologues of all stripes act that way too. The smarter ones speak in code and are more positive in their rant style, but the substance is the same—-poison*.

*The difference between Obama & George W. Bush for instance comes to mind. Their actions however compliment each other if not one augments the others previous administration.

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By Shenonymous, January 2, 2010 at 1:29 pm Link to this comment

In order to make sure the process is the right one, ThomasG, the definition has to
be clear.  While you may think you are referring to a process your notion of that
that process is unclear due to your sloganization.  There you go again you have
resorted once again to being pompous. 

Leadership of Constituents might be a process but it is one that politicians pay no
attention to.  And since they are the leaders of their constituents it is irrelevant if
it is a noble process or not.  Name one noble politician.

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By ThomasG, January 2, 2010 at 1:20 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, January 2 at 5:10 pm,

You are confusing process with definition.

There you go again, you have resorted one more time to accusation, condemnation, denunciation and demonization of the witness and the messenger, rather than to deal responsibly with the message.

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By Shenonymous, January 2, 2010 at 1:10 pm Link to this comment

It is irrational and provincial idealism to think politics means Leadership of
Constituents, ThomasG.  That phrase is a euphemism for a delusion right out of
Politics 101.  It is the sleek deceptive way to fool their constituents by those who
want to be politicians and get into the many games of politics.  It is a game from
the beginning, the game of seeing just how much the voting public can be fooled
into spending their votes for this gamesman or another.  Platforms of candidacies
are gameboards and we all know the pieces are fakes because they have been
proven to be fakes.  The are slugs in more than one way.  And most of your posts
are always meaningless blah just like those slugs that are like an attempt to get
something out of the soda pop machine and fail.  You just don’t realize how much
of a blank your sentiments present.  They are dead issues most of the time.  So if
you are suffering I suggest you take a vacation, see a doctor.  Let Martha out of
the trunk.  And you relax.  Obviously thinking is causing you pain.

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By ThomasG, January 2, 2010 at 12:53 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, January 2 at 4:35 pm,

The whole “Dumb Show of Politics” boils down to “LEADERSHIP of constituents in their best interest and non-constituents against their best interest”.

The answer to the balance of your post is yeah, yeah, sure, sure, because it is insufferable “blah”.

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By ThomasG, January 2, 2010 at 12:40 pm Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt, January 2 at 4:19 pm, and Night-Gaunt, January 2 at 4:10 pm,

What does accusation, condemnation, denunciation and demonization of me from you, as a Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST sophist propagandist in support of other Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST sophist propagandists mean??????? ——————Nothing.

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By Shenonymous, January 2, 2010 at 12:35 pm Link to this comment

Your focus is much too narrow ThomasG.  You obviously don’t watch the
politicians on the telly.  Their occupation is definitely a game or I should say, a
few games: One is “I gotcha Barach,” or “McCain is too old,”  Obama is too
inexperienced, the cat/mouse game over the health care reform, the political
games played over the Olympics, the game of party switching, the Blackwater
exoneration game of the judicial system.  These are games in the classic
Wittgensteinian sense.  You hold an idealized view of what politics is about.  I
say it is a matter of making deals. 

The Huxley truism is nothing but common sense.  With the exponential amount
of information that has been generated in human history, it is a simplistic
acknowlegment that one has to abbreviate.  Where is the epiphany in that? 
While I have the high regard for Huxley you apparently do, probably more!, I do
not use or bastardize his or others intuitions.  I can quote all day long if that is
the kind of empty discussion you apparently appreciate, I can only respect one
who can think for him/herself.  You know, you could paraphrase Huxley to
demonstrate you actually understand what he was saying.  That would
command respect not simply parroting what he said.  Now who is the parrot? 
Now who is the monkey? 

OzarkMichael does not need my help nor support, and what is more he doesn’t
really want it from a liberal such as myself, as he clearly noted in his last post. 
He would rather we were adversaries.  It is coincidental his and a few of us
others see what you are doing as equivocating ideological subterfuge.  But that
is how it is sometimes among civilized people.  Rationality allows a
transcendence of ideology.  Again, I would withdraw from this forum if you
continue to call me names and to attribute to me beliefs without any basis
except using your own provincial measure.

If you have a point you undermine it with your attack-dog style.  It makes me
want to just give you the electronic finger and walk away.  You are too reactive
to be an effective proponent for your views.

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By ThomasG, January 2, 2010 at 12:28 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, January 2 at 2:57 pm and Shenonymous, January 2 at 2:52 pm,

Shenonymous said: “1.  Seems like, ThomasG, you are the one who wants to reverse devolution.”

ThomasG’s answer:  You are absolutely correct in the above statement, I do want to “reverse devolution”.

In answer to your question, enough cream in the Coffee of Capital to provide equitable socialized benefit throughout the Pyramid of the Economy, rather than obscene privatized equity for those at the top of the pyramid and the ,equity of wage slaves for those who support the base of the pyramid from the bottom up.

With regard to the brevity of my exposition, Aldous Huxley expresses my sentiments in his Forward to “Brave New World Revisited”, as follows:

”... life is short and information endless:  nobody has time for everything.  In practice we are generally forced to choose between an unduly brief exposition and no exposition at all.  Abbreviation is a necessary evil and the abbreviator’s business is to make the best of a job which, though intrinsically bad, is still better than nothing.  He must learn to simplify, but not to the point of falsification.  He must learn to concentrate upon the essentials of a situation, but without ignoring too many of reality’s qualifying side issues.  In this way he may be able to tell, not indeed the whole truth (for the whole truth about almost any important subject is incompatible with brevity), but considerably more than the dangerous quarter-truths and half-truths which have always been the current coin of thought.”

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By Night-Gaunt, January 2, 2010 at 12:19 pm Link to this comment

ThomasG you describe yourself with the “sophist propagandist” moniker. You have no depth just reiteration of the same thing. That isn’t communication, that is propaganda. Pound the same thing into our heads till we repeat it on cue, not because of understanding, just robotic programming. Stop ascribing your characteristics to others, it is transparent and futile.

The very fact that you will not answer any question pertinent to what you have said even with some detail is telling to me. I compliment anyone who does something I approve of—-even you ThomasG.

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By Night-Gaunt, January 2, 2010 at 12:10 pm Link to this comment

“If you are not a Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST, why do you employ the same Hitleresque tactics?”

That is the question Ozark Michael and myself ask you time and again. He has proven it 16 times and you have responded to none of them so they must be accurate fully and completely. Otherwise you would have explained why you use such NS techniques all of the time to convey your message that is supposedly against it.

You are very good at calling others names and labels but have yet to give any kind of analysis to them. I and others especially Shenonymous & Ozark Michael have. Calling a rose a pile of scat doesn’t change its scent or appearance does it ThomasG? Semantics is important as anything else used in information exchange.

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By ThomasG, January 2, 2010 at 12:01 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, January 2 at 5:57 pm, and Shenonymous, January 2 at 5:52 pm,

Shenonymous said:  “1.  Seems like, ThomasG, you are the one who wants to reverse devolution.” 

ThomasG’s answer:  You are absolutely correct in the above statement, I do want to “reverse devolution”.

In answer to your question, enough cream in the Coffee of Capital to provide equitable socialized benefit throughout the Pyramid of the Economy, rather than obscene privatized equity for those at the top of the pyramid and the equity of wage slaves for those who support the base of the pyramid from the bottom up.

With regard to the brevity of my exposition, Aldous Huxley expresses my sentiments in his Foreward to “Brave New World Revisited”, as follows:

”... life is short and information endless:  nobody has time for everything.  In practice we are generally forced to choose between an unduly brief exposition and no exposition at all.  Abbreviation is a necessary evil and the abbreviator’s business is to make the best of a job which, though intrinsically bad, is still better than nothing.  He must learn to simplify, but not to the point of falsification.  He must learn to concentrate upon the essentials of a situation, but without ignoring too many of reality’s qualifying side issues.  In this way he may be able to tell, not indeed the whole truth (for the whole truth about almost any important subject is incompatible with brevity), but considerably more than the dangerous quarter-truths and half-truths which have always been the current coin of thought.”

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By ThomasG, January 2, 2010 at 11:34 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous, January 1 at 6:41 am,

Politics is NOT a game; Politics is LEADERSHIP of constituents in their best interests and non-constituents against their best interests.

The American Populace need to represent their own interests with awareness and zeal for their own interests, and if “Louis XVI” does not consider the interests of the American Populace, “Louis XVI” needs to be concerned about whether or not “Louis XVI” can maintain his own self-serving interests.

Your support of OzarkMichael is ludicrous and brands you as either a “sophist propagandist” or a fool; take your own choice of which one you are.

I have always thought of you as having shallow savant understanding that would not be able to recognize your own best interest—— this is what I would define as a fool; and I have always thought of you as a “sophist propagandist”.  It is likely more probable that you are both, because you compliment OzarkMichael’s foolishness, sophistry and propaganda as a standard you endorse.

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By ThomasG, January 2, 2010 at 11:08 am Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt, December 31, 2009 at 4:56 am,

You speak from the shallow perspective and understanding of sophism and propaganda, no doubt.

The Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS from the time of Goldwater through Reagan, Bush I and Bush II to the present have made it a policy to attack the witnesses and messengers contrary to their movement with accusation, condemnation, denunciation and demonization, and you do the same thing.

If you are not a Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST, why do you employ the same Hitleresque tactics?

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By ThomasG, January 2, 2010 at 11:00 am Link to this comment

OzarkMichael, January 1 at 2:41 am,

You have mischaracterized socialism, and you know it.  Socialism always rescues Capitalism from its cyclical death spiral and has done so since the advent of Privatized Capitalism in Britain, socialism provides the infrastructure of the United States on which Capitalism lives and feeds like a parasite, socialism provides a safety net for the American Populace that secures the American Populace to a degree against the greed and self-serving expedient privatized imperative of Capitalism and socialism is the foundation of community for the American Populace.

Socialism in the United States has been successful and has provided communal services from 1776 to the present time, the very structure of Community, City, County, State and Nation are structures of socialism and without these socialistic structures of community the United States would be unable to function to serve the interests of either the American Populace or the parasitic interests of Privatized Capitalism.

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By Shenonymous, January 2, 2010 at 10:57 am Link to this comment

1.  Seems like, ThomasG, you are the one who wants to reverse devolution. 
Using another metaphor, figure of speech, or allegory (the monkeys and their
evolution) does not further the quest, nor does it enlist warriors in your army. 
You are engaged in describing a situation, not really explaining it nor saying
how you would cause evolution and prevent devolution.  Ranting that we must
adopt anti-Adams’ theory doesn’t really do it.  It is much too abstract.  I don’t
argue with a description as it is foolish except to ask if it is or is not on the
mark?  If the RR-WCBNEWORP ilk is supported by the PPPSC, then your claim of
devolution could be an accurate description.  Problem is you have not
explained how the obelisk of devolution, the PPPSC, occurs via the RR-
WCBNEWORPilk.  Seems like whenever I hear the RR’s I feel a prickle up the
back of my neck that is true, but I do not know exactly why.  I only have a
general feeling that there is something not quite right?  The machinations of
government and the interference of the media and theorists, including your
own obscurisms, makes it very difficult to sort things out to come to any
reasoned conclusion.  Seems the conservatives are always for the higher
echelons of wealth and against any liberal desires.  But that might be a
misperception based on biased reportage.  And the liberals are always for more
government control, more distribution of wealth and a decimation of the
American enterprise.  Again that might be from a smear campaign by the RR-
Ws.  For anyone to simply say the conservatives are the bad dudes is not
enough.  I need to know how they are the bad guys, and how they use ponzi
action to be the bad guys to resolve your criticism.  I have read now a few
essays by Smith and Quesnay and to cursorily understand their theory of
economics but again theirs is a description but has not been overlain enough
over the current RR’s to show how they apply those ideas.  These are patterns
only.  I have also read some of Mandelville’s Bee Hive theory, and Cohen’s ideas
on socialism.  And cannot see how their points would exactly make America
better either.  How to justify all of them to where the margins are justified or
the text is centered in the mind is the puzzle.

I do not argue that 2001: Space Oddyssey can be used as a metaphor for
constructive evolution as I believe that was Clarke’s and Kubrick’s intent. 
Orwell’s Brave New World was also an illustration of society gone mad.  But was
to show the effects of extreme totalitarianism which could also apply to
extreme socialism.  We are not near that state although the paradigm of our
economic machinery points to it as a threatening structure.  It is as I’ve said
before a push me pull you condition.  Trying not to be acerbic or out of hand
contrary to what you are saying, and I have no idea what anybody else on these
forums think since they are pretty much silent and I can’t tell if that is assent
with you or if they are simply cowardly to speak up, but you still have not
defined your dosage of socialism to be merged with capitalism that would
bring the most advantage to an American economy.  Let me use my Coffee and
Cream analogy:

Say a cup of fresh brewed black coffee represents capitalism.  Some like to
drink the coffee black, bitter and hot, a straight cup of capitalism.  Others like a
dash of cream.  Cream represents socialism.

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By Shenonymous, January 2, 2010 at 10:52 am Link to this comment

2.  A little side step here:  After much research and thinking, it is my conclusion
simply said that capitalism is an economic system based on private ownership
of all production, personal profit can be acquired through the work energy of
employed labor, and/or an investment of capital.  Capitalism is founded on the
concept of free enterprise.  This is an argument that any government
intervention in the economy should be restricted and free markets that pays
attention to supply and demand ultimately maximizes consumer welfare. These
are the specific principles Adam Smith proposed in his treatise, The Wealth of
Nations and in which he opposed the prevailing theory of mercantilism.  If this
is wrong, you certainly will tell me, won’t you?  How do the RR-Ws want and
only want this form of economics?

At the extreme other end of a possible economic spectrum is socialism and
socialism is a general and almost inchoate term for a political and economic
theory that in some form or other advocates a system of collective or
government ownership and management of the means of production and
distribution of goods. And herein is the problem as I will discuss after the next
paragraph.

Because of the collective nature of socialism, it is in stark contrast to the
doctrine of the sanctity of private property that characterizes capitalism. Where
capitalism stresses competition and profit, socialism calls for cooperation and
social service.  But it is not that simple for either polarity of economic belief. 
Neither of the above definitions are precise enough to describe economic
policies as the are currently, but they are basic enough to provide contrasting
talk about them. 

Now, if one prefers to have some cream in the coffee, a la socialism, to soften
the bitterness of greed that is a by-product of capitalism, the question then
becomes how much cream would be best to stir in?  At what point does too
much cream turn the coffee into almost not coffee anymore but instead is
transformed into coffee flavored cream?  How much cream would you put into
the cup of coffee?  That is, what percentage and how do you see it working for
the benefit of the society?  Let’s fantasize and assume you have squashed the
RR-WCBNEWORP and have a clean slate on which to paint your vision.

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By ThomasG, January 2, 2010 at 10:14 am Link to this comment

OzarkMichael, December 31, 2009 at 1:25 am, and OzarkMichael, December 31, 2009 at 1:15 am,

More attacking of the witness and messenger, rather than the message.

There you go again talking for others and then answering your own questions.

Accusing, condemning, denouncing and demonizing the witness and the messenger is not an answer to the testimony of the witness and the message of the messenger.

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By Shenonymous, December 31, 2009 at 11:41 pm Link to this comment

The whole thing is very murky.  Politics is a game, a battle of wits with ideology
thrown in to heat the sides up.  It is so obvious that deals and backroom deals
happen constantly.  It doesn’t do much good for ordinary people to get
themselves all frothed up when too much reality is just not known, who the real
players are is just not known, what is at stake is just not known.  The politicians
are pompous asses.  And ideologues are blinded by zeal.  All of them.  The
media feeds the fire with lies and exaggerations so much that it is impossible
to get any truthful information for anyone to make rational informed judgment. 
The media are in the business of inventing reality, attempting to invent reality
that is.  If the general public has any power it is only at the local level and
those battles are always for reasons other than the national ones.  State
representatives and senators to the federal government usually rise out of the
pool of the locally elected so things are almost always predetermined how
things will go in Washington.  Politicians as a group, all of them, are slick and
slippery deal makers. 

Individual ranting and railing against governments seems to be such a waste of
energy and lives.  Look at what is happening in Iran.  The people are thronging
into the streets after how long now, months and months, after that hideous
election and these people as a group are dying being beaten and injured and
are hardly making a dent.  There might be changes but it will only be after a
long insidious effort that can really only permanently come about by
assimilation.  One has to learn how to make deals.

Ranting and railing on a blog has become like a comedy hour.  Fake battles are
engaged, fake because they are so inert.  One can simply walk away, withdraw
from a forum and there are no consequences.  Blogs do not make government
policy and politicians do not pay attention to what is said.  Blogs like these are
simply forums for expressing idiosyncratic views.  To show off and strut, or
shout or screech.  The denizens of blogs are a notch lower than the news
media, particularly the editorializing media, who arrogantly think their
opinions affect the government.  The only way they can affect it is if they get
chosen to participate in government either as an office holder or in somebody’s
administration.  Politicians supposedly are to be paragons of virtue, models for
their constituents with the good of the public at heart and at their actions.  But
we have now for decades witnessed shysters, corrupt and moral-less jerks who
we now know crystal clearly simply make deals.  That is how governments are
run.  It doesn’t really matter if Obama made a $80 or $85 billion deal with the
pharmaceuticals.  Deals like that happen all over the board.  If not for health
care then for the military complex, if not for the military complex, then for
other industries ad infinitum ad nauseum.  It wouldn’t matter if it was
democracy or communism, Democrat or Republican, or third-party, the same
dynamics are at work.  Men will be men.  Only the gameboard is slightly
changed.  It is who can gain the power can gain the wealth and then keep the
power. 

Seems you OM astutely perceived flaws in MA/TG’s thinking and have done a
service of exposing how self-deception can engender a set of beliefs which are
the very epitome of the anathema that is criticized.  You have shown us how
irony comes from a mirage of beliefs.

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By OzarkMichael, December 31, 2009 at 7:41 pm Link to this comment

What is National Socialism?  Martha/Thomas explains: Socialism is not an economic system.
Even though Martha/Thomas claims to know, and proclaims herself to live and breath National Socialism, she doesnt tell half the story.

So, ok, Socialism is not an economic system. but what is it? I will tell you…. National Socialism is a fixed power relation between business and government.

Government and business are both necessary and can contribute to our lives. I do not think either one is bad. Government has to make and enforce laws to keep business activity fair and ethical since there are always unscrupulous people around.

Huge corporations are problematic. Many individuals make money, but none of them are held accountable when things go wrong. People become more reckless, since the more they risk, the more they can gain but never lose.

Today businesses are free to buy influence or not to do so, and our large government also has its own interests quite apart from the public good.

You may say “But the government is good until it gets corrupted by the bad business.”

I disagree. There are bad people everywhere.

Government is constantly and everywhere expanding its power no less than business does. Government spends more money every year. That spending is power. Anything that the government regulates it has power over. So by spending and by regulation, government becomes more powerful at double speed.

The more that government regulates business, the more beurocrats make agreements for their own benefit or their own agenda, always at public expense.

The expansion of government and the enlargement of businesses does some good. But as both enlarge, their nexus, (the area where they meet), becomes an ever expanding area of friction. More of the business money is at risk, as government threatens with regulatory power. The friction wont go on for long, since the business does not like uncertainty. It is in the interest of business to ‘settle’.

Take the recent health care legislation. The drug companies have already invested billions in research on the assumption of making billions from selling new drugs. Since government was poised to regulate healthcare, Pharma decided to settle before it even happened.

Obama and drug companies had a secret meeting. They cough up 80 billion to Obama. The deal: Pharma is allowed to do business as usual, Obama got money to make sure his legislation passes.

You can say Pharma bribed Obama. I can say Pharma got shook down and paid protection money to Obama.

So whenever government extends its sphere of influence to a new area, businesses in that area are tempted to cut deals. The Government is tempted to bully and hope for bribes.

Know that there are good people on both sides who dont do it. Thats what keeps us going.

Socialism is the permanent extension of government power over all business. Therefore all business must cut a deal.

For business it would be good. The uncertainty which we have now, where corporations wonder what will happen next, gets replaced with a permanent relationship. You can understand that since business prefers certainty it can settle with National Socialism. Government cant resist gaining more power.

This is unacceptable. It would result in loss of our liberty.

No one could thumb their nose at a government that controls everything we need to live. A government powerful enough to give us everything is also powerful enough to take it all away. That is National Socialism.

I would like to know what a liberal person thinks.

Martha/Thomas and her fascism forced us to unite against it. A nice change but boring. Lets explore. Lets go places where we might agree or disagee. The unpredictability was the best part.

Shenonymous, lets get back to the old times, where we disagreed about everything. I learned from you.  You too, Night Gaunt. I would like to know what you think. Leefeller? You here?

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By Shenonymous, December 30, 2009 at 11:38 pm Link to this comment

Trying to figure out your usual obscurantist defense in the usual attack dog style,
ThomasG.  Seems like you are claiming you are not able to give testimony of ?  It is
not clear, actually not said, what you witnessed from the time of Goldwater up
through Obama as reprehensible behavior. It is true from news accounts, that I’ve
heard, that the RR-WCEs do accuse, condemn, denounce, and demonize the Left,
Liberals, but I have never heard them specifically single you out, ThomasG???? 
Where did that happen?  When did that happen?

Regarding MarthaA in the trunk:  Sincerely and earnestly:  If you would just trade
places with her, she would have her moment in the sun.  Why are you keeping her
in there?  There are other alternatives, or maayyybee there isn’t.

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By Night-Gaunt, December 30, 2009 at 9:56 pm Link to this comment

“By ThomasG, December 29 at 8:17 pm #

Night-Gaunt, December 29 at 6:36 pm,

More blah attacking the messenger.”

Yep, as I said I win. You’re easy. If you are a poor messenger, and you are, then you don’t deliver you message very well. Or as Ozark Michael continually shows us it is a bad message to begin with. “Blah” is a cop out and an example of the vacuous mind of a shill for National Socialism even if it isn’t for the people but for the gov’t and corporation to rule in comfort. (That is the kind of socialism it is—right wing type as we have in the USA right now & growing in power and influence.) Do you like that? If not then you need to re-think your message—-it stinks as does your prose. Grade -(-F) I wish I could reproduce the infinity symbol here ThomasG.

Maybe you should choose another book like “Common Sense” of Thomas Paine would be better. Even Marx who had no love of totalitarianism of any kind would be better than your present choice.

Watch the episode of Star Trek “Patterns of Force” where a Federation historian helped a planet ‘Echos’ (echo) using the Nazis as a template to build up their world and it went all the way bad for an entire alien civilization to follow it all the way. They had an “enemy” Zaion (Zion) to attack with space ships and nuclear weapons. Of course it was metaphor of what happened just 23 (1968-1945=) years ago for real in the past and what could happen again if those who think they can find good in such poisonous messianic ideologies. Do you have the capability to grasp that ThomasG?

Be seeing you and winning again in 2010!!!

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By OzarkMichael, December 30, 2009 at 9:25 pm Link to this comment

my first attempt did not close italics. I try again:

We must discover to another STEP to fascism because Martha/Thomas insists on it. I think we are up to Hitler Playbook STEP 13 now. There are so many more to go. We are only halfway there.

I am so tired of exposing the evil of Mein Kampf that I cant stand to search it out anymore. It is an awful book that i wouldnt recommend to anyone.
However, Martha/Thomas reads it and recommends it. Here is a quote from Martha/Thomas: Have you read “Mein Kampf” by Adolph Hitler?  If you haven’t read it, I hope you will

Martha/Thomas continually brings up Mein Kampf, forcing us to pay attention to Hitler’s Mein Kampf and her own Mein Kampf.

So ok, lets pay more attention to the Mein Kampf of Martha/Thomas. Lets see what Martha/Thomas said and then work our way back to Hitler. After all, she is following Hitler 100% of the time so far.

Here is an important quote from Martha/Thomas: The answer is American Socialism and Socialized Capitalism.  Socialized Capitalism as an economic model used with American Socialism as a social model.


Martha/Thomas wants her socialism on a big scale. Not just on her street, or her town. She wants all of America. I didnt understand it at first because it wont work but she insists that she wants American Socialism. This would be a Socialism for our entire Nation. It would be National Socialism.

Thats it. All done.

My goodness. That only took a moment of reading the Mein Kampf of Martha/Thomas, and we already have another Hitler STEP to fascism.  No wading through pages and pages of Hitler’s Mein Kampf, just read some of Martha/Thomas Mein Kampf and the similarities to Hitler just appear like magic.

Whats that, my reader? You dont understand? You say I havent proven that Martha/Thomas National Socialism is Hitler STEP #13 to Fascism?

Oh. I thought you knew what the “National Socialism” of Martha/Thomas is equivalent to.

In German “Nathional Socialism” is Nationalsozialismus.

Still confused? Ok, my friend… Nationalsozialismus is the root word of so called Nazism or Naziism. “Nazi” is a shorthand way of saying National Socialist.

See how easy it is. Martha/Thomas followed Hitler again. Just like Hitler, Martha/Thomas wants power for her Nazi plans. Hitler was a German Nazi, Martha/Thomas is an American Nazi.

Being a “Nazi” is Hitler’s Playbook STEP #13 to fascism.

And just think, we did it the easy way. We read Martha/Thomas message(her own Mein Kampf) and worked back to Hitler! Is anyone surprised that it worked? We shouldnt be.  Martha/Thomas is now lock-step on 13 consecutive points, 13 of Hitler’s Steps to Fascism, from Hitler’s Mein Kampf.


She can yell and scream all she wants, but those 13 points still stand completely unanswered by her. She cant defend herself at all.

Go back and read the STEPS again if you dont believe me. Martha/Thomas couldnt defend her Nazi ideology. Her message is a Nazi message, and she will use Nazi type personal attacks on everyone here to try to cover it up.

We should beg Martha/Thomas to put down Hitler’s Mein Kampf, but it wont do any good. She will never stop talking about it.

And we should beg Martha/Thomas to give up her own Mein Kampf, but it will do no good. She has certitude that her unique life experiences make her uniquely qualified to spread her message. She will never stop talking about her Naziism.

We still have 12 more steps of Fascism to go. Rest assured, Martha/Thomas will keep talking and provide even more similarities to Hitler.

There are 25 Steps to Fascism. Hitler invented them Which one will Martha/Thomas copy next?

Stay tuned…

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By OzarkMichael, December 30, 2009 at 9:15 pm Link to this comment

We must discover to another STEP to fascism because Martha/Thomas insists on it. I think we are up to Hitler Playbook STEP 13 now. There are so many more to go. We are only halfway there.

I am so tired of exposing the evil of Mein Kampf that I cant stand to search it out anymore. It is an awful book that i wouldnt recommend to anyone.
However, Martha/Thomas reads it and recommends it. Here is a quote from Martha/Thomas:Have you read “Mein Kampf” by Adolph Hitler?  If you haven’t read it, I hope you will

Martha/Thomas continually brings up Mein Kampf, forcing us to pay attention to Hitler’s Mein Kampf and her own Mein Kampf.

So ok, lets pay more attention to the Mein Kampf of Martha/Thomas. Lets see what Martha/Thomas said and then work our way back to Hitler. After all, she is following Hitler 100% of the time so far.

Here is an important quote from Martha/Thomas: The answer is American Socialism and Socialized Capitalism.  Socialized Capitalism as an economic model used with American Socialism as a social model.


Martha/Thomas wants her socialism on a big scale. Not just on her street, or her town. She wants all of America. I didnt understand it at first because it wont work but she insists that she wants American Socialism. This would be a Socialism for our entire Nation. It would be National Socialism.

Thats it. All done.

My goodness. That only took a moment of reading the Mein Kampf of Martha/Thomas, and we already have another Hitler STEP to fascism.  No wading through pages and pages of Hitler’s Mein Kampf, just read some of Martha/Thomas Mein Kampf and the similarities to Hitler just appear like magic.

Whats that, my reader? You dont understand? You say I havent proven that Martha/Thomas National Socialism is Hitler STEP #13 to Fascism?

Oh. I thought you knew what the “National Socialism” of Martha/Thomas is equivalent to.

In German “Nathional Socialism” is Nationalsozialismus.

Still confused? Ok, my friend… Nationalsozialismus is the root word of so called Nazism or Naziism. “Nazi” is a shorthand way of saying National Socialist.

See how easy it is. Martha/Thomas followed Hitler again. Just like Hitler, Martha/Thomas wants power for her Nazi plans. Hitler was a German Nazi, Martha/Thomas is an American Nazi.

Being a “Nazi” is Hitler’s Playbook STEP #13 to fascism.

And just think, we did it the easy way. We read Martha/Thomas message(her own Mein Kampf) and worked back to Hitler! Is anyone surprised that it worked? We shouldnt be.  Martha/Thomas is now lock-step on 13 consecutive points, 13 of Hitler’s Steps to Fascism, from Hitler’s Mein Kampf.


She can yell and scream all she wants, but those 13 points still stand completely unanswered by her. She cant defend herself at all.

Go back and read the STEPS again if you dont believe me. Martha/Thomas couldnt defend her Nazi ideology. Her message is a Nazi message, and she will use Nazi type personal attacks on everyone here to try to cover it up.

We should beg Martha/Thomas to put down Hitler’s Mein Kampf, but it wont do any good. She will never stop talking about it.

We should beg Martha/Thomas to give up her own Mein Kampf, but it will do no good. She has certitude that her unique life experiences make her uniquely qualified to spread her message. She will never stop talking about her Naziism.

We still have 12 more steps of Fascism to go. Rest assured, Martha/Thomas will keep talking and provide even more similarities to Hitler.

There are 25 Steps to fascism. Which one will Martha/Thomas reveal next?

Stay tuned…

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By ThomasG, December 29, 2009 at 4:56 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, December 29 at 7:24 pm,

Sounds like “you people” are rejecting the U.S. Judicial System that allows witnesses to testify and for the jury to consider the evidence of the testimony and make a decision on the testimony of witnesses.  Is this attitude part of your fascist doctrine and dogma? ——————Or, what?

I am both a witness giving testimony and a messenger; my message and my testimony is what I have witnessed from the time of Goldwater through Reagan, Bush I and Bush II, together with what I have witnessed under the Obama administration; my message and my testimony is what I have witnessed during all of the administrations mentioned and is my case as a witness made by me against the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Movement.

I expect the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Movement and their spokesmen and spokeswomen to make their own case for their reprehensible behavior as witnessed by me and others as messengers and for the American Populace, Back Street America, to make a judgment for themselves with regard to the actions and activities of the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Movement from the time of Goldwater through Reagan, Bush I and Bush II.

As a witness, it is not up to me to make or assist the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS with their case, it is solely up to the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS, and so far, the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS have refused to make a case for their reprehensible behavior and have chosen to accuse, condemn, denounce and demonize the Left, Liberals and me personally, as a witness and messenger, rather than to make their own case for their own reprehensible behavior to the American Populace, so that the American Populace can render an informed judgment.  With regard to how the American Populace can express their verdict, it will be at the ballot box and public demonstrations and any other means that the American Populace, Back Street America, chooses as a means of rendering their verdict.

BTW, Have “you people” contacted the Web Master and indicated your desire that both MarthaA and ThomasG be allowed to post from the same CRT?

The post that I made on this topic was sent to the Web Master for a determination, so if you are sincere and in earnest with regard to MarthaA and ThomasG being allowed to post from the same CRT, the Web Master will be aware of my earlier post as well as this post, since I am also sending this post to the Web Master.

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By ThomasG, December 29, 2009 at 4:17 pm Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt, December 29 at 6:36 pm,

More blah attacking the messenger.

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By Shenonymous, December 29, 2009 at 3:24 pm Link to this comment

ThomasG, Dec. 29 at 7:10 pm
ThomasG’s answer:  This is why it is necessary for the Republican
Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS
to make their own case for their own
reprehensible behavior, without the expectation of the Left and Liberals doing
it for them, and then let the American Populace make their own
judgment as to what the facts are.

Shenonymous’s return answer:  It is a two-way street.  Furthermore, the
fallacies in your thinking:  You assume the homogenous American
Populace,
are capable of making informed judgments.  You assume that
100% of the American Populace will get the information to make
informed judgments.  What ratio of the population would be significant enough
to project a particular tendency?  To what degree can the American
Populace
rely on what is submitted as fact?  Facts according to whom? 
Speaking of hole watching, your theory is full of holes, dug by your own little
lonesome.

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By Night-Gaunt, December 29, 2009 at 2:36 pm Link to this comment

The bong of drums is loud but it defens the listener. So is how you write. Why can’t MarthaA go to a library and use one if they have such a limitation, which I find it suspiciously weak, and post from there? Or you? Facile at best but hardly an answer.

You still don’t want to get it do you? No answers from you just the samo-samo like a recorder set on looped play back.

In an intellectual contest you ThomasG would do poorly. It isn’t your mind so much as how it has been drawn, quartered and imprisoned in a neat very narrow box. A computer program would and could do better than you. Again what a waste.

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By ThomasG, December 29, 2009 at 12:59 pm Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt, December 29 at 3:17 pm,

“You people” whined and complained about MarthaA so much that Truthdig cautioned MarthaA about two people posting on the same computer that I post on, therefore, MarthaA has ceased posting.

If you want to hear from MarthaA, contact the Truthdig Web Master and express your desire to also hear from MarthaA, and MarthaA will be glad to respond to whatever you have to say as well, if Truthdig agrees that MarthaA and ThomasG can post from the same CRT, since Truthdig only allows one individual to post from one CRT; MarthaA will resume posting as soon as MarthaA is informed by the Web Master that both MarthaA and ThomasG can post from the same CRT.

“You people” engage in name calling attacking the messenger, rather than the message, foolish prating prattle that accuses, condemns, denounces and demonizes me and expect that I treat you otherwise.

In the moment, you like the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS, expect to be treated as a triumphant exception to your own behavior and that is NOT going to happen from me; it has happened with the Democratic Party because of the Democratic Leadership Council, DLC, and the Blue Dog Democrats that have corporate interests that transcend their representation of the American Populace, Back Street America.  I have no such interests and do not want any such interests, so I am free to treat you and the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS according to your own reprehensible behavior.  If you and the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS don’t like it,——CHANGE——————  Or, get used to it, because I have no intention of changing.

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By ThomasG, December 29, 2009 at 12:10 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, December 29 at 2:34 pm,

Shenonymous said:  “About witnesses:  It is also a well-known fact that witnesses are notorious for
misapprehending reality.  And they do not describe accurately a crime they may
have witnessed.”

ThomasG’s answer:  This is why it is necessary for the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS to make their own case for their own reprehensible behavior, without the expectation of the Left and Liberals doing it for them, and then let the American Populace make their own judgment as to what the facts are.

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By Night-Gaunt, December 29, 2009 at 11:17 am Link to this comment

Actually we all bear the burden of proof if we assert something as you do. Where is MarthaA by-the-way? Put up or shut up is the short of it in the venacular. I am anything but a “right wing extremist” and Ozark Michael though a Republican hasn’t shown such a tendency to me so far. Neither has Shenonymous who isn’t a Republican. (Good work so far too!) I am independent at best—an Anarchist-Socialist with a dash of Capitalism to keep it exciting is me. But then you would know that for I have written of it on many forums but you don’t care. If I or anyone else disagrees with exactly what you have hammered out we are classified as the enemy just like those you claim to be against! Cookie cutter thinkers, anything outside is to be discarded. Fascists think that way too. Not the only ones but they are the ones most likely to succeed after the fall of the Republic. That will come any time now when the other shoe drops on our economy. Bombing Iran would do nicely for them. They are Disaster Capitalists and this is their crowing achievement—remove the Republic. And you ThomasG & MarthaA (where is she?) are muddying those waters to see that we need to take our republic back (even in its present corrupt form) before the economy finishes taking the nose dive it has been prepped for.

You include Goldwater in your litany of villains but not Clinton & Obama why is that? Goldwater was against the kind of theocrats that infest both official parties right now. Why didn’t you know that? I never claim to know-it-all though others have accused me of such including my mother constantly (that is another story) but you should actually have some depth to what you write. One inch isn’t much, one of the roots of the word “fascist” is it is just a veneer, a cover for what lies within. You are shallow & hollow from what I see and doggedly determined to maintain your stance no matter what happens around you. Humans are good at ignoring reality in favor of their tunnel vision of it. It is a habit we must break or Nature will break us of such foolishness.

For someone who has “seen everything” & “done everything” it must have been from inside a little red box. I stress that we are all represented here by what we write and that is all. I must say I am hard pressed to psychoanalyze you but I won’t. I am an amateur at it just like with everything I know. Autodidacts are like that. However some do become professional depending on what they have learned but I have not found my niche just yet and may never.

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By Shenonymous, December 29, 2009 at 10:34 am Link to this comment

Turning the tables on you, ThomasG, and using your writing strategy,
this is what it would look like from the other side’s perspective (with the notice
that both N-G and I are liberals! Perhaps not to your degree or liking, it doesn’t
really matter to us, and maybe I speak out of turn for N-G, and if so, he will
say so): 
So in your idiom:  YOUR Fascist Left-Wing Liberal EXTREMIST ilk are NOT
credible, should NOT be treated as being credible, and will NOT be treated as
being credible by me, because YOUR words and your deeds are at polar
opposites.  You say one thing but do nothing.
If your Fascist Left-Wing Liberal EXTREMIST ilk wants to be treated as if
you and they are credible, then your Fascist Left-Wing Liberal EXTREMIST
ilk
will have to BE credible, and we all know————that is NOT going to
happen because it has not happened so far and it has been a long siege.
Until the Fascist Left-Wing Liberal EXTREMISTS redress their actions and
activities that have and continue to accuse, condemn, denounce and demonize
the Right and Conservative, that they have pursued from the time of
Johnson, Carter, Clinton, the Fascist Left-Wing Liberal EXTREMISTS’ hollow
words
CANNOT be considered credible.  What is credible is the harsh
actions and activities of the Fascist Left-Wing Liberal EXTREMISTS  that
continue to accuse, condemn, denounce and demonize the Right and
Conservative
that is contrary to their hollow words that claim otherwise.
I am a Centrist Left-Leaning Democratic Liberal and fall neither into the
Fascist Left-Wing Liberal EXTREMIST ilk  or the Republican Right-Wing
Conservative Extremist ilk

Even though you have been around for a long time, it is dubious that you have
seen everything and heard everything, but I firmly believe you do firmly believe
what you do about diggers of holes and observers of holes.  I also firmly believe
that the only way one knows the way to St. Ives is to walk the walk to St. Ives. 
Not just watch the road to St. Ives.

About witnesses:  It is also a well-known fact that witnesses are notorious for
misapprehending reality.  And they do not describe accurately a crime they may
have witnessed.

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By ThomasG, December 29, 2009 at 8:01 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous, December 29 at 12:11 pm,

As I have said before, I am not a young person.  I have been around for a long time, seen everything, heard everything and firmly believe that the one who perpetrates the digging of a hole is the one that is responsible for the hole, NOT the one who observes that the hole exists.

“You people”, the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS would make the witness to the victim falling in the hole responsible for the hole dug by the perpetrator of the hole.  “You people”, the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS, dug your own hole and have pushed the Left and Liberals of the American Populace into that hole, and now you try to deny that you dug the hole and pushed in the victims.

I am a witness to the crime; it is not up to me to prove what I have witnessed; it is up to the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS to make their own case for the hole they dug and pushing the victims in that hole, and let the jury of the American Populace render a verdict.

I am a witness.  Proof is not required of a witness.  If you can refute what I have witnessed, do so————if you can.

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By ThomasG, December 29, 2009 at 7:36 am Link to this comment

OzarkMichael, December 28 at 10:47 pm,

I do not bear the burden of proof for the actions and activities of the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Movement’s bad behavior.  The Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Movement bears their own burden of proof to explain and account for their own bad behavior from the time of Goldwater through Reagan, Bush I and Bush II to the present.

Why do “you people”, Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS, continually ask YOUR victims to account for YOUR own bad behavior?????  If you want an accounting for your own bad behavior, try insight and reflection on the CAUSE and EFFECT of YOUR OWN bad behavior and quit asking YOUR victims to account for and document victimization that is self-evident to the victims of the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS and only requires proof by the perpetrator of the victimization, Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS, who are always wanting verification from their victims of the victimization they perpetrate.

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By ThomasG, December 29, 2009 at 7:15 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous, December 29 at 12:11 pm,

What Orwell is saying is that CAUSE leads to EFFECT——————  go figure.

When the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST CAUSE is redressed, perhaps the EFFECT will diminish proportional to the effort made by the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Movement to redress the CAUSE.

This is a scenario that I do not see the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS initiating; much the same as I don’t see YOU and YOUR ilk dealing with my message, rather than attacking me as the messenger.

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By ThomasG, December 29, 2009 at 7:00 am Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt, December 29 at 12:33 am,

YOU, as well as YOUR Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST ilk are NOT credible, should NOT be treated as being credible, and will NOT be treated as being credible by me, because YOUR, and their, words and deeds are at polar opposites.

If you and your Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST ilk want to be treated as if you and they are credible, then, you and your Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST ilk will have to BE credible, and we all know————that is NOT going to happen.

Until the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS redress their actions and activities that have and continue to accuse, condemn, denounce and demonize the Left and Liberals, that they have pursued from the time of Goldwater through Reagan, Bush I and Bush II, the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS’ hollow words can NOT be considered credible.  What is credible is the harsh actions and activities of the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS that continue to accuse, condemn, denounce and demonize the Left and Liberals that is contrary to their hollow words that claim otherwise.

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By ThomasG, December 29, 2009 at 6:30 am Link to this comment

OzarkMichael, December 28 at 10:47 pm,

YOU, want to lose what you do, and what the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS have done in pedantic parsing to obfuscate YOUR abhorrent behavior and the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST’S abhorrent behavior by way of pedantic parsing.

I have asked you many times to account for the Hitleresque behavior of the Republican Party and the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Media Echo-Chamber that has been self-evident from the time of Goldwater through Reagan, Bush I and Bush II that has led to the destruction of the U.S. Economy and cost the U.S. Populace TENS of TRILLIONS of DOLLARS to clean up the mess; however, you NEVER respond with anything more than perpetual diatribes attacking the messenger, rather than the message.

You have a proclivity for complementing yourself on the quality of your efforts and that is because NO ONE, other than your own chorus, complements you, because you have done NOTHING and said NOTHING deserving of compliment, other than by your own self-serving self and your chorus.

The Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Movement, that failed to govern the United States and made a mess that took the time from Goldwater through Reagan, Bush I and Bush II, through their Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Media Echo-Chamber originated a Sophistry and Propaganda Campaign that they have maintained from the time of Goldwater through Reagan, Bush I and Bush II, that is presently and has been self-evident from its origin to the present date; you and your ilk trying to pedantically parse bad behavior that is self-evident does not imply ingenuous and serious intent and is taken as disingenuous obfuscation.

I personally have nothing to defend,  but the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Movement has much offense against the Left and Liberals to defend and account for.

Do not expect the victims , the Left and Liberals, to defend being victimized by the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Movement and the Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Media Echo-Chamber until the Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Movement has accounted for, explained and made retribution for their own abhorrent behavior from the time of Goldwater through Reagan, Bush I and Bush II.

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By Shenonymous, December 29, 2009 at 5:11 am Link to this comment

George Orwell cautioned, ThomasG, that language declines when there are
political and economic causes.  An effect, he said, can become a cause,
reinforcing the original cause and producing the same effect in an intensified
form, recurring indefinitely.  My understanding of what Orwell was saying is
that the language becomes ugly because thoughts are foolish and becomes
disheveled by the slovenliness of its use.  The brutalization of language makes
it easier to have foolish thoughts.  To reverse the process of the uglification of
language, one has to rid oneself of habits that prevent clear elucidation and
thereby take the first step toward political regeneration.  I have never seen such
a waste of words by anyone in my entire life of reading, and I would wager
anyone who reads your gibberish not only cannot fathom what it is you are
saying, which because of your repetitiveness and graphic style becomes totally
unimportant, but cares even less.  I always see it as one big blurb used as a
kind of verbal grenade with the intent of blowing OzarkMichael, Night-Gaunt,
and myself out of the dismal waters of Truthdig.  It is quite ineffective.  And as
you come to realize it you become more and more shrill.  It is like the actor
who got too old to deliver intelligible lines and cannot see his pathetic self.

Yours is the rasping of a political misanthrope who is inarticulate in spite of the
the profusion of words that appear.  When I see your posts, I laugh and say
there is that nut again.  But I won’t let you get away with your barrage, your
bombast, for who are you to have such fits about our views, which you get
wrong in any case.  Night-Gaunt was right in calling you a dunce.  I think he
was being kind.

And with that said, I should like to reiterate and point out, ThomasG, the
staleness of your graphic gutturals and the complete lack of sense. If you have
anything to say it gets lost in your blinding zeal.  You ignore the questions put
to you by any of us, because you are dumbstruck.  You are unable refute
OzarkMichael’s vivid dissection of your reality.  You cannot refute the
comparative exposure of your views.  I see the serious intent there but it is
entertaining nonetheless.

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By Shenonymous, December 28, 2009 at 9:21 pm Link to this comment

Where is martha these days ThomasG.  Did you put her back in the trunk? 
She is morbidly quiet.

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By Night-Gaunt, December 28, 2009 at 8:33 pm Link to this comment

I don’t follow your’s and MarthaA‘s tactics so I am following my own course.

Why don’t you take your own advice ThomasG? You don’t and won’t and you will never dissect what we say as “sophism” but merely identify it as such. Calling something doesn’t make it so without some example to actually prove it as such.. That cuts no ice here—-grade of -F. Ozark Michael has and he gets +A.

You following your course is good for us just as it was so very good that most of our criminal class is of poor education and lack of deep thinking skills. It was so good for all of us that Hitler listened to himself over his more experienced generals in the last Great War & so lost it. [There were many places where the ending wasn’t so certain or going to happen as it finally did.]

Also ThomasG you are like a soap bubble you swell big but it is just air surrounded by a thin slippery skin that pops when anything touches it.

I must thank you two(?) for giving us such a living example that fits this Chris Hedges article.

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By ThomasG, December 28, 2009 at 6:58 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, OzarkMichael and Night-Gaunt,

You all, with the certainty of sophism and propaganda, offer your unwanted and unneeded advice to the Left, to Liberals and to me personally.

Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS always harp on certainty, the certainty of literal, emotional, static doctrine and dogma that is supported by Hitleresque subjective sophism and propaganda, the same as was Goldwater, Reagan, Bush I and Bush II; this is conservative certainty, and it is the certainty that brought Adolph Hitler to power in Germany and enabled the so called Republican Revolution in the United States that borrowed and spent the United States into bankruptcy, deindustrialized the United States, created a mercantile economy in the United States, financialized the U.S. Economy and created the largest financial bubble that the world has ever known, that broke in 2008 from toxic capital that could not be supported by the defrauded American Populace, and then used the communal resources of the American Populace to recapitalize the FAILED capital of the whole financialized Ponzi Scheme to start the whole Dumb Show all over again.  Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST certainty got the United States into the difficulty that it is having to endure today, and this type of Conservative EXTREMIST Certainty, YOUR type of certainty, is something that the American Populace can no longer afford.  YOUR type of Conservative EXTREMIST Certainty has cost TENS of TRILLIONS of DOLLARS of the resources of the American Populace to resolve, is cyclical and has been around since the advent of Privatized Capitalism; it is time for a change———— it is time for an end to YOUR type of Conservative EXTREMIST Certainty; we all know where it leads and the American Populace do not want to go there and to keep having to pay for the terms of their lives and generations of their progeny to correct the results of the obscene greed and self-serving financialization that results from Conservative EXTREMIST Certainty.

YOUR type of Certainty that ALL of “you people” preach on this Truthdig Forum is the Certainty of foolish prating prattle that is meant to lead the American Populace against the best interests of the American Populace; the American Populace has had enough of foolish prating prattle that “you people” relate to as Certainty of Republican Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST doctrine and dogma that is foolish prating prattle.

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By OzarkMichael, December 28, 2009 at 6:47 pm Link to this comment

December 27 at 5:30 pm post, Martha/Thomas just performed another Hitler step to fascism.

It is time to discover STEP #16 in Hitler’s Playbook. Since we have so many more steps left i am going to sketch this out briefly. If anyone has any questions i can provide quotations and references.

STEP #16 in Adolph Hitler’s Playbook is one which everyone knows, I trust that you will recognize it instantly.

It is simple: Hitler wrapped himself in religion to gain power. He first identified himself as serving “Christianity”, but later he threw off his disguise, taking the people’s sentiments/loyalty toward God and claiming it for himself and the state. Further he claimed that those who did not follow his doctrine were not Christians.

Any questions? I assume not, since we all know history. If you arent sure, ask me to prove it and I would be happy to do so.

You will be surprised to find that we have seen Martha/Thomas do this right before our eyes. It started with Martha, who identified herself as serving Christianity.(I did not search around for the quotes from long ago where Martha played her little game, since this happened right before your eyes… but if you have forgotten i would be happy to find them.)

And then in a Hitleresque turnabout, Martha/Thomas says about our response to her: I expect those who have eyes to see and ears to hear….

This is Christian phraseology, these are the words of Jesus. Jesus is referring to people’s reaction to Himself and to the Gospel. He is not referring to Martha/Thomas or Hitler.

Here is another quote from the same Martha/Thomas post last week: My mission is to spread and plant seed.  I am interested in those who with insight and understanding choose to be fertile ground

Again Martha/Thomas wraps her message in Christ’s words. But she claims they refer to her message. Just like Hitler did.

Furthermore, in the next instant, Martha/Thomas have dispensed with Christ altogether. Just like Hitler.

It wasnt long ago that Martha/Thomas screamed that i couldnt possibly be a Christian because i didnt agree with her version of the Christian message. In her mind it was impossible that i could be a Christian, even though I reached out to her as a sister in Christ, for the sake of Christ. I was fooled. 

So here is Mein Kampf STEP #16: Claim to be serving Christ with your message in order to attract religious people to you. Then use Christs words to refer to your own message, claiming the loyalty that Christians have towrad Jesus for your fascist self and your fascist message. Then dispense with Jesus altogether, claiming that anyone who doesnt follow you and your message is not a Christian and deserves damnation, or better yet, a bullet in the head.


I apologize for sketching this so quickly. If at any point you want to see quotations from Martha/Thomas, or Mein Kampf, or better yet, the Bible, I would be happy to find all these things. It is easily proven, and ought to be proven if you ask me to do so.

I also apologize if my own disgust at Hitler’s religious forgery seeped into this post. But even if you do not acknowledge the Lordship of Christ, even if you dont hold His words to be more precious than diamonds, you can still see that Martha/Thomas appropriated them purely for the sake of gaining followers, gaining power, but then she already has jettisoned Jesus to claim God’s glory all for herself.

SHAME!

Again, SHAME!

That is fascism straight from hell and to hell it deserves to return.

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