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Go to Pittsburgh, Young Man, and Defy Your Empire

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Posted on Aug 31, 2009
AP / Jack Dempsey

Shock troops and “free speech zones” have become the norm at mass gatherings in modern America.

By Chris Hedges

(Page 2)

But expect difficulties. The Secret Service has so far denied protesters permits while it determines the size of the “security perimeter” it will impose around the world leaders. Pittsburgh has contracted to bring in an extra 4,000 police officers at an estimated cost of $9.5 million. Activist groups have reported incidents of surveillance and harassment. The struggle to thwart the voices of citizens will be as fierce as the struggle to amplify the voices of the criminal class that is trashing the world’s economy. These elites will appear from behind closed doors with their communiqués and resolutions to address us in their specialized jargon of power and expertise. They will attempt to convince us they have not lost control. They will make recommitments to free-trade agreements from the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade, or GATT, the World Trade Organization and NAFTA, which have all thrust a knife into the backs of the working class. They will insist that the world can be managed and understood exclusively through their distorted lens of economics. But their day is over. They are the apostles of a dead system. They maintain power through fraud and force. Do not expect them to go without a struggle. But they have nothing left to say to us. 

“Those who profess to favour freedom, yet deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground,” Frederick Douglass wrote. “They want rain without thunder and lightening. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters. This struggle may be a moral one; or it may be a physical one; or it may be both moral and physical; but it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.”

If you can, go to Pittsburgh. This is an opportunity to defy the titans of the corporate state and speak in words that describe our reality. The power elite fear these words. If these words seep into the population, if they become part of our common vernacular, the elite and the systems they defend will be unmasked. Our collective self-delusion will be shattered. These words of defiance expose the lies and crimes the elite use to barrel us toward neofeudalism. And these words, when they become real, propel men and women to resist. 

“The end of something often resembles the beginning,” the philosopher John Ralston Saul wrote in “Voltaire’s Bastards.” “More often than not our nose-to-the-glass view makes us believe that the end we are living is in fact a new beginning. This confusion is typical of an old civilization’s self-confidence—limited by circumstances and by an absence of memory—and in many ways resembling the sort often produced by senility. Our rational need to control understanding and therefore memory has simply accentuated the confusion. … Nothing seems more permanent than a long-established government about to lose power, nothing more invincible than a grand army on the morning of its annihilation.”

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Chris Hedges’ latest book is “Empire of Illusion: The End of Literacy and the Triumph of Spectacle.”


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By apgher1, September 10, 2009 at 8:02 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

i just want to make sure that anybody who read the article (not from pittsburgh) realizes that the summit is actually on the 24th and 25th of september - not the 25th and 26th as the article states.

additionally, if anyone coming to the city from abroad needs to find possible places to camp or stay cheaply, you can send an e-mail to .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) and they might be able to direct in the right direction. the eastern section of the town would probably be the friendliest/safest/amenable to visitors.

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By ardee, September 9, 2009 at 3:40 am Link to this comment

stcfarms, September 6 at 4:07 pm #

Civil disobedience takes many forms and confrontation does not seem to be
effective in the long run.

Knowing history might alter this mistaken opinion…...This nation of ours would not even exist were it not for confrontation.

Report this

By stcfarms, September 6, 2009 at 1:07 pm Link to this comment

Civil disobedience takes many forms and confrontation does not seem to be
effective in the long run. The regime runs on fiat money and that is their weak
spot, it is your taxes that pays for the pigs, as well as the resulting lawsuit.
You lose coming and going because you pay for the whole show. It is far
better to join the underground economy and trade what you have for what you
need than it is to confront armed morons. A million people are working in the
underground economy and living well. When you create your own job you hurt
the state where it really counts, their wallet. When you become self sufficient
you take power from the corporations that supply your every need. When
enough people become self sufficient the regime will collapse from it’s own
weight.

“Know your enemy better than you know yourself” Sun Tzu.


By bane-richter, September 6 at 2:46 pm #

Organize for nonviolent civil disobedience! If the Stormtroopers/Goons want
to start the violence let them. Their hope is to intimidate, threaten and prevent
civil disobedience. Corporate America is well aware of this- nonviolent civil
disobedience makes them extremely nervous,  - it’s a direct threat to their
institutionalized violence. If a pig crosses the line, they can be sued and
eventually punished - cameras everywhere.

Report this
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By Night-Gaunt, September 6, 2009 at 12:58 pm Link to this comment

That has a possibility of it working if you can get judges on your side and the laws haven’t made going to court impossible win. It could happen but it could be painful. And they will start “unrest” if no one else will. They will threaten and they will be hair trigger. They will use psychology to see if they can force you to make any move they will want to construe as “provocative” or “threatening” even if you are a 32 year old woman with a child in her arms. Yes even that. So good fortune on that for it is becoming as dangerous as it was in the 1960’s only its more like the 1930’s in tone, mood and economics.

Report this

By bane-richter, September 6, 2009 at 11:46 am Link to this comment

Organize for nonviolent civil disobedience! If the Stormtroopers/Goons want to start the violence let them. Their hope is to intimidate, threaten and prevent civil disobedience. Corporate America is well aware of this- nonviolent civil disobedience makes them extremely nervous,  - it’s a direct threat to their institutionalized violence. If a pig crosses the line, they can be sued and eventually punished - cameras everywhere.

Report this

By stcfarms, September 5, 2009 at 2:26 pm Link to this comment

KDelphi,

You own the ship that passes over the ocean without owning the ocean and
the islands will be just like ships. In any event there is no question as to
ownership of the sea, within 12 nautical miles of land the country claims the
sea, within 200 nautical miles of land it is considered an exclusive economic
zone for the country and beyond that only piracy and mutiny are illegal. I had
no idea as to your political affiliation other than I assumed that you were not a
republican. The island does exist in pieces and could be in the water in a
matter of days. I keep it at my shop where I can work on it without wasting
fuel.

I do not mind talking to people and I accept criticism if it is presented in a
logical manner. I have changed the design several times when someone found
a mistake in the plans. My reaction was based on the remark “I’ll tell you I am
way to good looking to hide my ass away on some floating piece of trash. I’ve
read some of the plans for this stuff—tell your girlfiend(if there is one) good
luck! I hope she is of age…” . It seemed to me that if you had read about the
trash islands you would have known that the trash is cleaned first and that the
islands are virtually unsinkable. The trash is covered with wood to keep the
sun from destroying it so it is not even seen. Using trash reduces the need for
landfills. Mankind needs a cheap method to remove the excess carbon from
the atmosphere and the rafts are dirt cheap. As for the remark about my
girlfriend you should know that she graduated Purdue University (1970) near
the top of her class, not bad for a little girl.

Perhaps you are right about being able to talk to people but we all develop
different skill sets. My skill set was built upon being raised on a self sufficient
dairy farm, 45 years as a jack of all trades and a burning desire to know
everything about science. Ubernerds have our own social groups but we do not
mesh well with other groups (even other nerds) and this is a big part of the
problem in communication.

Report this

By stcfarms, September 5, 2009 at 1:10 pm Link to this comment

The problem with plastic degradation is from sunlight and the islands take
that into account. The fish under the seaweed will not be constrained and will
not get any chemicals and hopefully no one will set up a salmon farm near me.
You are correct that it will take a global effort to reverse the problem and 50
years sounds about right.


Night-Gaunt, September 5 at 3:33 pm #


Unfortunately it has been found that some of the plastic debris in the oceans
are breaking down into toxic compounds. Also that the salmon farms are a
breeding ground for pollution via bacteria blooms, chemicals used on the fish,
they won’t leave well enough alone it seems.

With the lag time and pollution and GHG levels rising I don’t see a very good
outcome in the next 50 years. We should have all been on this 20 years ago. I
do mean every last human on earth needs to be in on this and we need to
keep the corporate bottom line out of it till we get it fixed.

Report this

By KDelphi, September 5, 2009 at 12:55 pm Link to this comment

stcfarms—I do NOT suport Obama’s “plan” , I just dont think that the answer is a bunch of manmade islands. I dont care if other people want to do it, but there are questios as to whether you can actually OWN a piece of the ocean.

Please stop assuming that if i am not a libertarian I must be a Dem.

I was kindve trying to joke around with you, youre bringing up the “zodiac” etc by saying I was going to “burn an island” that dosent exit. You also seemed to totally miss the tinfoil hat ref. There is no inflection in a word processor and that is part of the problem. But if you dont like talking to people I dont know what you are doing here. Thats what we’re doing—talking.

Social interaction could help you decode that.

Global warming is very real, but you have to be able to talk to people to explain it—that is one reason science is losing. People created it—they have to be on board to stop it.

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By Night-Gaunt, September 5, 2009 at 12:33 pm Link to this comment

Unfortunately it has been found that some of the plastic debris in the oceans are breaking down into toxic compounds. Also that the salmon farms are a breeding ground for pollution via bacteria blooms, chemicals used on the fish, they won’t leave well enough alone it seems.

With the lag time and pollution and GHG levels rising I don’t see a very good outcome in the next 50 years. We should have all been on this 20 years ago. I do mean every last human on earth needs to be in on this and we need to keep the corporate bottom line out of it till we get it fixed.

Report this

By stcfarms, September 5, 2009 at 12:24 pm Link to this comment

Ardee,

Oddly enough ocean farming does not require pesticides, herbicides or even
artificial fertilizer and the water needed can come from rain or be produced
with simple solar stills. 


By ardee, September 5 at 2:33 pm #


Global warming is no laughing matter…Apparently nitrous oxide is replacing
carbon as the number one source of such warming:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080218134552.htm

Report this

By stcfarms, September 5, 2009 at 12:13 pm Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt,

It is not so much that I dismiss social adeptness but that I prefer reading. I
realize that the weakness in my plan lies not in the science or logistics but in
presentation and social adeptness would certainly be a plus. You are right that
the Obama ‘clean coal’ plan will be an ecological disaster but there is no way
to stop it as the energy companies are spending billions of dollars to buy the
crooks in Washington. What people fail to realize is that what the crooks do is
done in their name on their dollar. The only way to stop them is for people to
quit feeding them. I disagree that it is too late to reverse global warming
although we are dancing on the edge of that time. We produce enough trash
to make 3 million acres a year of island area (another 50 million acres worth in
the landfills) that could produce food, water, energy (hydrogen) and provide
land for millions of refugees but we lack the political will to do so. One bright
spot is that the water department of India is looking into my plan to provide
drinking water for their cities. Who knows, we may all be buying everything
that we need from India. Of course the smart money thinks that China will be
their biggest customer. It is my contention that only by making, food, water
and clean energy so cheap that the polluters cannot compete that we will end
their reign of terror over the people. People will not buy GM food, chlorinated
water or dirty energy if they can get clean products at half the price.  The
islands will cool the sea beneath them and provide refuge and breeding
grounds for marine life and the seaweed will remove billions of tons of carbon
dioxide. I guess that is enough reason for people like KDelphi and Ozark to
want it destroyed. There are supporters of the plan, Chad Pregracke of living
lands and waters and some local businesses supply barrels and my friends
help out when they can. To raise money for the project I am planning to build
boat docks with undershot water wheels on them to help get river rats of the
grid. Every little bit helps…

Report this

By ardee, September 5, 2009 at 11:33 am Link to this comment

Global warming is no laughing matter…Apparently nitrous oxide is replacing carbon as the number one source of such warming:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080218134552.htm

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, September 5, 2009 at 11:11 am Link to this comment

NOAA carbon chart at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/carbonlevels when it is connected the url will become activated for you automatically!

Thanx for that Stcfarms. Though don’t dismiss social adeptness, it is what keeps us all alive as a species. Your assessments are correct and a big danger. What the “nazis” in Washington want to do will make it worse from an even larger carbon footprint than now. Can you imagine many more “clean” coal plants, and coal gasification plants constructed and also turning coal into a very dirty fuel oil for our military juggernaut? These “Dominionists” mean to do just that. Add to that expansion of the shale-oil (tar-sands) extraction installations increasing and use of fracturing to get it out? Not only does the process make 4X the amount of GHG’s as ordinary drilling, it uses huge quantities of fresh water to make it work, cut down forests and pollute the are on top of it. It is more energy intensive that it actually gets out of the ground! Already seeing cross contamination in wells and the water table an local aquifers because of it. Fresh water is already coming in short supply and it will be an acute shortage very soon. The “snow ball” effect is in motion. Then it will cascade like a nuclear reaction and then Boom! It is too late to fix it and all we can do is the survivors pick up and work to organize again from the ruins and unburied dead. But in a much harsher climate than what we have been experiencing for the past 10,000 years. Even the few modern lithic tribes will have a problem because of what climate change has wrought on the world’s biosphere.

I will be surprised if anyone makes any kind of impact on a place that lets you stay out doors while the business goes on indoors. You need to get in there first to even have a chance. Good luck, if there is any, on that project.

We don’t want to go the full 6 degrees C hotter do we? At 3-4 degrees the Amazon becomes a grass land.

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By stcfarms, September 5, 2009 at 9:42 am Link to this comment

KDelphi,

You have won me over with your wit, charm and logic and now I fully support
the Obama plan to save the environment. The Obama plan is to build millions
of artificial trees that will consume the atmospheric carbon, the fact that the
plan calls for 40 new coal fired power plants to supply the energy for the
artificial trees is irrelevant. I want to thank you for opening my eyes, by not
having to remove carbon from the atmosphere I can cut the cost of building
my island by 90%. That you get the government that you deserve seems to be
true.

“A fool’s paradise is a wise man’s hell!” Thomas Fuller.

Report this

By stcfarms, September 4, 2009 at 10:46 pm Link to this comment

Au contraire mon ami, if you come to burn my island you will receive the same
treatment as a man. You brought up the fact that you were a woman and
implied that it was wrong not to treat you differently because of it. My
girlfriend helps me pull engines and I do half the cooking et cetera. You seem
to live in a world where assumptions, at least yours, are truth. You deserve to
stay on land and test your theory that people with intellect wear tin foil hats
and are always wrong.

Report this

By KDelphi, September 4, 2009 at 9:54 pm Link to this comment

Thank you , Ozark. I never see much need to be anything else. Intellectualizing bores me…

I do have to apologize for getting into this juvenile pissing contest , though. One thing I do resent—talk like a man?? God, what a chauvanist.

I dont care if you go to a plastic island, boyo. I doubt anyone will notice.

Report this

By stcfarms, September 4, 2009 at 6:45 pm Link to this comment

Ozark,

To an extent you are right, being socially adept never interested me, but the
need to escape has nothing to do with that. The need to escape comes from
the fact that global warming is real and that Malthus was right about the
population explosion. The land area of the world will shrink 15% in the next
ten years while we add 1 billion people to the population. The coastal dwellers
will move inland to compete for the dwindling resources, will you share? The
choice to leave is just logical because I went to many disasters in the 12 years
I spent in the Navy, you do not want to be here when the sea begins to rise.
Your fellow Americans will kill you for a loaf of bread if their kid is starving, I
certainly would and I am good at it. Science has no place for unproven factoids
like the ones put forth by the Bush administration and these factoids have
dulled the minds of the American people when it comes to global warming.
Since Americans are 10 years behind the world in understanding the problem
it is pointless to try to educate them now. The biggest problem is atmospheric
carbon, not some nazis in Washington. Even if we stop all carbon emissions
right now the temperature will continue to rise for 400 years. Unless we
remove the excess carbon (270 ppm is optimal) most species may be extinct
in 50 years. Considering that most ‘greens’ think petitions or ‘click here to
plant a tree’ scams will save them I think that at least my plan has a chance to
reduce global warming. Growing vegetation where none now exists is the only
way that we can stop global warming and the islands are a logical outgrowth
of that. Perhaps a visit to the NOAA carbon chart at http://
tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/carbonlevels will show you the problem in
better detail. Perhaps I do have a tin foil hat but at least I am trying to solve a
problem that others ignore.

Report this
OzarkMichael's avatar

By OzarkMichael, September 4, 2009 at 4:09 pm Link to this comment

Dear stcfarms(styrofoamcupfarms),

KDelphi is one of the those rare bloggers who you can tell is a real human being.

There is a certain inner radar which socially adept people develop. I suspect with your need to escape society that you dont have that.

Which is totally ok. Just be aware that even though I argue with KDelphi, i can always count KDelphi to get to what is real.

Unlike some people I know.

Bon voyage, Oscar.

Report this

By stcfarms, September 4, 2009 at 2:22 pm Link to this comment

KDelphi,

I now see why you people want to go to Pittsburgh, you did not read the
Declaration of Independence. If you had read it you would just fire the
criminals and be done with it. I do not believe in the court system and had no
intention of involving them. I kill my own snakes, that is why I told you where
to find me. Since you are as shallow as a thousand acre lake with only a quart
of water in it I must tell you that I chose my girlfriend 40 years ago because of
her intellect. She still has her intellect after 40 years, will you still have your
beauty after 40 years? If your girlfriend chose you for your beauty (admittedly
an assumption on my part since your intellect is not in evidence) then you will
be alone in 40 years.

I will leave you with this piece of advice. Your enemy, the state, is very well
organized and this constant infighting serves their purpose, not yours. You
can attack each other all you want but it will not set you free. Your mindless
drivel probably drives away people in the center and makes you look stupid.
Unless you can learn military discipline you will be helpless before the phalanx
of riot police that you will most assuredly encounter in Pittsburgh. Good luck
in spite of yourself.

Report this

By KDelphi, September 4, 2009 at 1:10 pm Link to this comment

stcfarms—how old are you? Cause that is not how we do things here in grownup land.

Yeah, I “threatened violence” and you told me to meet you. Sounds like you felt real threatened.Yeah, it was a “thraet” to burn up your plastic island. Take me to court. I am sure that you can find a judge to take your seriously

I’ll tell you I am way to good looking to hide my ass away on some floating piece of trash. I’ve read some of the plans for this stuff—tell your girlfiend(if there is one) good luck! I hope she is of age…

Report this

By stcfarms, September 4, 2009 at 11:20 am Link to this comment

KDelphi,

When you talk like a man (perhaps even look like a man) and make violent
threats one has to assume that you are a man. If you do not wish to be treated
like a man then quit acting like one. By the way, Ojibwe is an internationally
recognized language but I have no interest in conversing with a woman in a tin
foil hat. English is my third language (after Ojibwe and French) what is your
excuse for poor grammar and punctuation? If your primary language is Latin,
Greek, Italian, German, Ojibwe or French we should have no trouble, it is your
pidgin english that is hard to read.

Report this

By KDelphi, September 4, 2009 at 10:47 am Link to this comment

stcfarms—have your cajones even droppped yet? Females dont have cajones. I have risked my life many times, but not for a Paultard. But, if you would like to come here,,,I can go to my profile and accept one private email from you. ONE! And it has to be in an internationally recognized language…

Do you know that a perfectly usable and attractive hat can be made from a simple roll of tinfoil?? Its true!

Night Guant got it right, once again, and was very articulate about it.

Report this

By stcfarms, September 4, 2009 at 10:33 am Link to this comment

Ozark,

Oddly enough that barge belongs to Chad Pregracke, where I get some of my
barrels. Most come straight from food service or car washes and are food
grade. If you live in the area perhaps you could drop by my shop near Osco
Illinois and actually see a trash island being built. Just go west on 1400 av.
from Osco rd. to the second farm house on the right. Perhaps you will also
discover that one mans trash is another mans gold. You might also discover
that the island will use undershot water wheels to create free ‘green’ energy
from the river and will grow heritage crops on the upper deck. If you want to
learn how to be self sufficient I can teach you, if you wish to remain a slave
then I cannot help you. I already have a non-slave name it is Waub-
Peepeegizaence Runninghawk but being half white I use find it easier to use
my step dads name.

Waub-Peepeegizaence Runninghawk

Erus ka da wanke day (a warrior walks among you).

By OzarkMichael, September 4 at 8:22 am #


If you would make me a slave be advised that my slave name is Spartacus.

Hey! I’m Spartacus!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eflb-u00wv0

“I love you Spartacus.”

Every day I drive up the I 280 overpass in the Quad Cities, and since you live
underneath there I wonder if that barge full of trash is where you live?


I dont mean to rain on your parade, but the plastic isnt exactly floating. I
mean, your trash is piled on a barge. Seems to defeat the purpose.

And since you are not a slave, being captain of you own ship as it were, you
need a non-slave name.

I propose “Oscar”.

Report this

By God, September 4, 2009 at 9:48 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

christian96 said: “Pittsburgh could not be a more
appropriate site for the meeting.  In the book of
Revelation a BEAST ascends out of the PIT.”

Wow, Christian, that is really incredibly compelling. Which one of the hundreds of English translations of the New Testament uses the word “Pit?” Or perhaps it was one of the many translations of other translations that have been undertaken since Paul wrote his Good Book back in the 400s?

I did a little research (even God can’t keep track of all the facts) and I have discovered that the noun Pit, “a hole in the ground”, as used in your Rev. quote, is essentially derived from middle German, and with the addition of “burgh”, I’m geussing so is the city name. Now if you can find the original Latin word used in the New Testament for “pit,” we can create an argument compelling enough to convince the world that end-times are here!

Or perhaps they will beleive us without any of this trouble when they notice that the supermarket shelves are empty and radical Christians are forcing them to fight against “The Great Satan” in the Middle East (I’ll have it working in about nine months or so).

Que Cerra

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OzarkMichael's avatar

By OzarkMichael, September 4, 2009 at 5:22 am Link to this comment

If you would make me a slave be advised that my slave name is Spartacus.

Hey! I’m Spartacus!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eflb-u00wv0

“I love you Spartacus.”

Every day I drive up the I 280 overpass in the Quad Cities, and since you live underneath there I wonder if that barge full of trash is where you live?


I dont mean to rain on your parade, but the plastic isnt exactly floating. I mean, your trash is piled on a barge. Seems to defeat the purpose.

And since you are not a slave, being captain of you own ship as it were, you need a non-slave name.

I propose “Oscar”.

Report this

By stcfarms, September 3, 2009 at 9:15 pm Link to this comment

The word “anarchy” has its origins in ancient Greek (like so many other words).
It stems from the root word arcon (archon), meaning ruler, with the prefix (an)
added to mean “against” or “without.” So, literally, anarcon (anarchon) means
against/without rulers. It was not until the French revolution that it took on
the present meaning. I am not a slave and government, all governments, must
have slaves. If you would make me a slave be advised that my slave name is
Spartacus.

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, September 3, 2009 at 8:52 pm Link to this comment

Anarchism isn’t about being alone and aimless. It is about cooperative living where the leader one day will be the follower tomorrow. Mutual Aid not dog-eat-dog we have been taught by the bullies and psychopaths to live. Cutthroat isn’t just a metaphor either in their case. Being without sentiment or empathy they can play the ladder game the best without regrets.

We have different skills that work better when we are all together, think Portuguese Man O’War which is a metazoan like ourselves only one step removed as the parts are originally independent but work best together. Such as the Human Race must do in order to survive. I don’t want to live under a dictatorship of any kind. Some will because it will give them structure to live by. I don’t want that kind of rigid stratified theocracy run in the corporate/military mold by any means.

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OzarkMichael's avatar

By OzarkMichael, September 3, 2009 at 8:47 pm Link to this comment

stcfarm said: I have no interest in selling you anything as I already have most of the 60 gallon plastic barrels for my island.

Oh. So you are buying up trash.  How many more trashcans of garbage do you need? I am willing to sell. could you post some pics of your stcfarm (styrofoamcupfarm)?

But it is sad when I think of all the dinosaurs that had to die to make all that plastic. Sure the dinosaurs are already dead, but so is the poor fox when someone is wearing fox fur for a hat. You might say ‘but I didnt kill the dinosaurs’ but that is exactly what the lady says, ‘I didnt kill the fox’. So there is blood on her hands, and yours.

Go veggie instead. Or here is a clue: did you ever think of using something inorganic, like boulders or really big rocks? Dude, rocks are FREE, and nothing has to DIE to make them.

Dont call me dude you pre cambrian slime mold.

Ouch.

And here I was gonna sell ya some fresh trash at a good price.

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By stcfarms, September 3, 2009 at 8:44 pm Link to this comment

For the next two years it will be just south of the I-280 bridge in the Quad
Cities, if your cajones are as big as your mouth you will come.

Report this

By KDelphi, September 3, 2009 at 8:25 pm Link to this comment

Umm, I think its ZodiaC—you know, like the ZODIAC sign??

I am the Zodiac and I’m going to set fire to yur plastic island…Burning Man

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By stcfarms, September 3, 2009 at 8:15 pm Link to this comment

Why would an anarchist start a country? I will not lead, I cannot follow so my
island will not have a ‘government’, anyone going along, other than my
girlfriend, will have their own island. So, are you and Zodiak an item?

Report this

By KDelphi, September 3, 2009 at 8:07 pm Link to this comment

“...Friedman and I are on different paths, assuming that we are somehow alike
because we choose the ocean is akin to me assuming that you and the Zodiak
killer are the same because you both choose to live on land….”

Umm, not really stcfar. If you dont know why that is not a good analogy, good luck starting your own country!

Report this

By stcfarms, September 3, 2009 at 7:54 pm Link to this comment

KDelphi,

You make the assumption that I will be alone on the island, you are wrong. I
am a social animal, it is just a much smaller group than civilization. Patri
Friedman and I are on different paths, assuming that we are somehow alike
because we choose the ocean is akin to me assuming that you and the Zodiak
killer are the same because you both choose to live on land.

Ozark, you assume that being a tiger means taking a gun to a peaceful
meeting, in reality it means being strong enough not to need to beg the state
for scraps. I have no interest in selling you anything as I already have most of
the 60 gallon plastic barrels for my island. Your last assumption that my job is
not ‘green’ is ludicrous, I design ‘green’ systems, my latest is the island. It will
be built in a ring form to hold in seaweed that will remove carbon from the
atmosphere. You have not even seen my plan yet you are an expert on the
subject. Do not call me dude you pre cambrian slime mold. Perhaps in a few
million years your progeny will learn to walk upright and use simple tools, it is
the best that you can hope for.

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By KDelphi, September 3, 2009 at 7:22 pm Link to this comment

OzarkMichael—

Yes. you succeeded in giving lame-hearted Dems, led by Obama, another excuse to pass a toothless health care bill.(they will pass SOMETHING—you will probably like it) You HELPED Obama because he never meant to pass serious reform anyway.

Congrats.

stcfarms—I think that Darwin would say that people are social mammals—you know, like our closest ancestors, the “lone wolf tiger” chimpanzees—no higher mammals live alone. Its not normal.

But you and Patri Friedman might enjoy it for awhile until the industrialists take it over. You could annoint King Ron.

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By OzarkMichael, September 3, 2009 at 5:00 pm Link to this comment

anarcissie asks:So, do you all think it does any good to follow the bigwigs around and make trouble in the streets nearby?  I am not sure of this, but I’m open to argument.
stcfarms answered: “Better to live one day as a tiger than a thousand years as a sheep” Tipu Sahib

Ya, it worked for us at the town hall meetings.

thebeerdoctor said: Television will frame the news story as yet another case of disruptive and destructive malcontents standing in the way of that greater corporate global vision.

Yeah, they did frame us that way, but we still got the word out and Obamacare is a lame duck now. So never give up. March and Speak up!

truedigger3 suggested: Instead of your continuous mindless drivel and rantings, why don’t you ask your God why did he create such a messy world inhabited with so much flawed human beings and full of misery and suffering.

Why cant you ask God yourself? Why do the Christians have to do all the hard work?

stcfarms said: Richard Sowa has made two islands from plastic bottles, his islands had trees, a house and a sand beach.

which makes me wonder if stcfarms stands for “STyrofoam Cup farms, like maybe you have a vested interest in convincing people to buy your trash in order to build an island.

You need to find a green job, stcfarm dude.

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By stcfarms, September 3, 2009 at 4:58 pm Link to this comment

One lives every day as a tiger and it does not matter what the sheep do. The
genetic lines will soon undergo a culling, only the bright, strong and prepared
will pass the test. Malthus and Darwin were right about populations and
natural selection, we are at that point now. My choice of the ocean is just that,
my choice and it is not my intention to recruit you. If I am right about the past
and how it relates to the future then my island will be the place to be. If I am
wrong then I will be stuck with a tropical island off the coast of Brazil. I can
deal with failure if I have to. Good luck with your new contract…

By KDelphi, September 3 at 5:55 pm #

One should not have to live only one day as a tiger or to live as a sheep at all.

Ive seen the plans for these floating globs of manmade material and they dont
look like “freedom” to me.

The military/medical industrial complex has done a terrific job of convincing
‘Merkins that anything that costs them profits impedes on their “fridom”

People can be free and still live within community. The elites are breaking the
social contract—we need a new one

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By KDelphi, September 3, 2009 at 2:55 pm Link to this comment

One should not have to live only one day as a tiger or to live as a sheep at all.

Ive seen the plans for these floating globs of manmade material and they dont look like “freedom” to me.

The military/medical industrial complex has done a terrific job of convincing ‘Merkins that anything that costs them profits impedes on their “fridom”

People can be free and still live within community. The elites are breaking the social contract—we need a new one

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By Father Zosimma, September 3, 2009 at 9:40 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

@At Fat Freddy quoting Nietzsche, “Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one.”

When we defeated the USSR we became a mirror image of them in their thirst for global hegemony.

Mover over, Russia! There’s a new evil empire on the block.

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By elisalouisa, September 3, 2009 at 4:54 am Link to this comment

Truedigger3 The common bond of our diversified backgrounds here at
Truthdigger is that we are all searching, looking for ways to make things better for humankind, not just ourselves. We may be entering a cycle that is more negative in nature.  As with Tevye, the main character in “Fiddler on the Roof” who questions why things are as they are, we must go on.  Remember the yin and yang of it all for there is also joy, love and beauty.  Each day is gift; look at the glass, it is half full.

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By truedigger3, September 3, 2009 at 2:05 am Link to this comment

Christian96,

Instead of your continuous mindless drivel and rantings, why don’t you ask your God why did he create such a messy world inhabited with so much flawed human beings and full of misery and suffering.
This question apply to any believer in any God or any other religion.

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By stcfarms, September 3, 2009 at 12:26 am Link to this comment

It serves no purpose to petition, beg or threaten the powers that be, it only
amuses them. It is better to quit feeding them than it is to take up arms
against them. Let them have the fiat money and the slave jobs, it is easy
enough to live well without them. Self sufficiency is a job that you make
yourself, no company can fire you. The underground economy is booming and
you do not have to beg the government or a corporation to work there. If you
leave America you are no longer responsible for the debt (faith and good will
of the people of the United States sorta thing). like the 1936 Germans we can
avoid a lot of problems by leaving now.

Freedom exists only on the frontier, the good news is that civilization has
always granted freedom to those that would tame the frontier. The bad news
is that the frontier is now the ocean. The ocean covers 70% of the earth and
water is the most precious resource there is. There is no tax, the wind, rain
and sunlight are all free for the taking and you do not have to murder the
inhabitants to live there. Richard Sowa has made two islands from plastic
bottles, his islands had trees, a house and a sand beach. Since the plastic
bottles came from the trash the islands were essentially free.


By Anarcissie, September 3 at 1:11 am #

So, do you all think it does any good to follow the bigwigs around and make
trouble in the streets nearby?  I am not sure of this, but I’m open to argument.

“Better to live one day as a tiger than a thousand years as a sheep” Tipu Sahib

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By Anarcissie, September 2, 2009 at 10:11 pm Link to this comment

So, do you all think it does any good to follow the bigwigs around and make trouble in the streets nearby?  I am not sure of this, but I’m open to argument.

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By stcfarms, September 2, 2009 at 9:35 pm Link to this comment

Mike,

The sheep that are now being shorn by the powers that be are a product of
the training to obey. When ‘truth’ is fairy tales it is easy for the scammers in
Washington to take control of the sheep. The only requirement for public
office is a willingness to embrace jesus and no matter how much you steal you
will be forgiven. Hail mithra, the first christ.

Jerry.

By mike112769, September 2 at 10:25 pm #

I wonder how the meeting of our masters will go this year? I got a feeling it
won’t go as smoothly as they think.

Christian96: You seem to be a typical christian,that is, someone who knows
squat about their religion. The basics of christianity were around thousands of
years before your so-called messiah came along. Stop quoting scripture you
don’t know shit about. Christianity was simply a political tool useful for
Constantine or you would have never heard of it. Are you REALLY waiting on a
dead guy who may not have existed to come and save you from yourself? Jesus
christ, get a hobby!

“A fool’s paradise is a wise man’s hell!” Thomas Fuller

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By Angel Gabriel, September 2, 2009 at 7:56 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Go to Pittsburgh - your lives, and the lives of us all unable to be there depend on it! Stop this madness!

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By mike112769, September 2, 2009 at 7:25 pm Link to this comment

I wonder how the meeting of our masters will go this year? I got a feeling it won’t go as smoothly as they think.

Christian96: You seem to be a typical christian,that is, someone who knows squat about their religion. The basics of christianity were around thousands of years before your so-called messiah came along. Stop quoting scripture you don’t know shit about. Christianity was simply a political tool useful for Constantine or you would have never heard of it. Are you REALLY waiting on a dead guy who may not have existed to come and save you from yourself? Jesus christ, get a hobby!

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By christian96, September 2, 2009 at 5:23 pm Link to this comment

NIGHT-Gaunt—-Since you are a scholar on the Bible
I am sure you are familiar with the following verses
but just in case you have forgotten I’ll refresh
your memory:
1 The NIGHT comes when no one can work(John 9:4)
2. But if a person walks in the NIGHT, they stumble
because there is NO LIGHT in them.(John 11;10)
3. Christians are children of the LIGHT; they do not
walk at NIGHT in the darkness.(1st Thes. 5:5

Well, I could go on but but of course I am boring
you.  A person with your knowledge of the Bible.
Oh, one last reminder.  In describing Heaven,
Revelation 21:25 reads, “There shall be no NIGHT
there.”  Sorry, NIGHT-Gaunt.

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By Virginia777, September 2, 2009 at 4:08 pm Link to this comment

I’m with you Chris Hedges!!

Fantastic idea, its about time!!

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By stcfarms, September 2, 2009 at 4:04 pm Link to this comment

If you make your own job then the corporations have no power over you.
Since I quit the empire in 1977 I have had a thousand jobs. The most lucrative
was placing an ad in the paper “We tow junk cars free”. Every week I would get
about ten cars, eight were junk and went straight to the scrap yard. Two could
be repaired cheaply and sold for anywhere from a few hundred dollars up to a
thousand dollars. Even the junk cars were worth 25$ each. Another good job is
dumpster diving for repairable items and selling or trading them at the swap
meet. My partner and I bought 3 lots in the Wanship mountains and built a
house on each lot, it took us 8 months. The jobs that you would create will be
different than the ones I make because your skill set will be different. My old
partner Russ used to say that anyone that could not make it in America was
either lazy or stupid but I think that was a bit harsh, I would have added
uninformed. If you can adapt and have hustle you will never need a job.

“Better to live one day as a tiger than a thousand years as a sheep” Tipu Sahib.

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By dgswilson, September 2, 2009 at 3:27 pm Link to this comment

Perfectly said…Chris, you are deserving of the title, “Author of Note”.

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By Night-Gaunt, September 2, 2009 at 11:00 am Link to this comment

Nice idea but until we have a seat at that table we will be crying outside the glass like howler monkeys seeing the strange apes looking in. Until then how will we get anything done? A local example is with healthcare. Obama dumped it without letting it even be on the table to start with. Put Max Bauchus the paid leader on the board for keeping his constituents (the health insurance companies) happy. Now Glenn Beck today has the gall to say that people fighting against any protection from the gov’t on healthcare “won” by having it off the table! Nuts!

The police like to sow the discord themselves TheRealFish. Many times the violence is attributed to unnamed “Anarchists” which gives the already threatening police a reason to tear gas and beat anybody and everybody. These same agents provocatuer are always gone before the police hem in then attack whose left—-the real peaceful protesters.

Nietzsche wasn’t saying to not fight monsters, just don’t become monsters to do so. A difference you should note.

“The republican party will become marginal and
a new party will soon gain power. This is much
like the decade of the 1850’s when the whigs
ended and the republicans arose with the
central support of reformists(slavery). The issue
that is soon to be central is health vs military
bloat.”
Marcus Medler

These days if they were in power the Republicans would never have a chance to supplant the Whigs. Things are so locked up to just these two heads of the same party (now) keep them alive no matter how dead they really are. Like a head in a bell jar kept artificially alive.

“Pit” is not “Pitt” Chrisian96 and it is such sloppy thinking that is so amusing. Until others actually believe it. Remember nothing fell out of the sky to Chernobyl (Wormwood) either. I dare say I know you Bible better than yourself!

The Orchs represented the Capitalists in J.R.R.Tolkien‘s universe with their views on Nature and how they didn’t care how many “Satanic Mills” they need to create for their world.

Diamond, that great intellect of the Wrong, George Will once said there is no infrastructure either. I guess not for him a Thatcher who have their own separate ones unlike the rest of us peons.

Christian 96 don’t you have anything relevant and intelligent to say on what is going on? No, you have you mythos to pontificate on. Everyone who isn’t a Christian is an “anti-christ” in the Bible don’ you know? This is what you want so you will do nothing. Oh and the Bible does say you must have the “mark of God” in order to not go to Sheol. Will you have one? Do you know what that is? The Bible doesn’t say. Oops! Trouble for you.

“Those who will demonstrate in Pittsburgh will do this nation and this world a much needed service I think. Any publicity of the false nature of free market capitalism for the exploitative beast that it truly is is welcome.”Ardee

I agree.

Bldng4Jst unions are at their smallest in years and yet the fascists want them dead. Sad because we need them now more than ever.

Rfidler mind your business on that crap. If you don’t like it or agree with it so what? Free speech doesn’t include telling someone else to shut up. Understand? Just be civil and all will be well. If your ego can do it.

We need to work together. Infighting benefits the Cabal not us.

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By Donna Conroy, September 2, 2009 at 9:19 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Local laws either facilitate or hinder globalization.  Corporate visa programs like H-1b & L-1 are being manipulated by companies “to outsource American jobs and discriminate against American workers,” according to Senator Durbin’s press release.

Within comprehensive immigration reform discussions, there is an opportunity to stop this by passing S.887, America’s Jobs Bill.  It will give us chance to compete for job openings in our own country, end the humiliating “H-1b Only” Want Ads, and stop the despicable practice of forcing us to train our foreign replacements.

Local laws are currently faciliating globalization.  S.887 is a powerful blow to globalization.  Let’s pass this.

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By Kay Johnson, September 2, 2009 at 8:58 am Link to this comment

“A few weeks ago, Bill Gates was in India.  Microsoft has a huge facility there where they employ up to 1000 programmers.  But, that wasn’t enough for Bill.  Microsoft has a research group there populated by India PhDs who went to school in America and Europe because India doesn’t have any advanced degree programs yet.  Bill’ suggestion to India: immediately start programs to train researchers who can then go to work for Microsoft and other software companies.  That suggestion would allow Microsoft to eliminate their R&D groups stateside (at considerable savings) and do basic development on the cheap in India.  Just the latest stab in the back for American labor by a proud American.”—C.Curtis.Dillon

When I lost my job in December of 2006, it never occured to me that I wouldn’t find another job. I picked up a couple of very short term positions, one of which was working as a receptionist for an Indian immigration law firm, Keshab Raj Seadie, here in NYC. That is when I began to learn about the insidious H1b visa program, and how that program was undermining U.S. tech workers, as well as people who worked in just about every other field, too. I experienced this from the inside—working in the office, and answering the phone at least 300 times per day, and filing, amongst other tasks.

Each day that I sat at that desk, I also looked at a photo of Keshab Raj Seadie with President Clinton. This issue lies with the Democrats as well as with the Republicans.

When this job came to an end, I wrote letters to all of my elected officials, including the fact that this man shorted me money when he paid me. I received no reply from any of them, all Democrats.

I also watched Bill Gates testify before congress on how the U.S. needs to up the number of H1b visas. He actually told our elected officials that U.S. tech workers are not smart enough or educated enough to do the job. I don’t recall that anyone on that committee, our elected officials, challenged Mr. Gates.

By that time, I had connected to a group of tech workers who organized themselves in Chicago, Bright Future Jobs. I knew Bill Gates was lying through his teeth at that hearing. Thousands of very accomplished tech workers have not worked in their field for years.

Like some of you, I have been trying to find out if buses are leaving out of NYC to go to Pittsburgh, but I haven’t, thus far, connected with the organizations.

I agree—this is the line in the sand, and the more people who can make the trip, the better!

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By C.Curtis.Dillon, September 2, 2009 at 8:56 am Link to this comment

I’m pretty disconnected at this point.  We buy almost all our food from local providers in the local market.  We live very simply and at a significantly reduced dollar cost (around $1k/month).  But this is a depressed country so we don’t get many frills.

The point about not needing labor anymore is based on the ability of large investors and funds to “game” the system.  We now have high speed trading which allows fast computers to test the market direction without actually buy anything.  They can place an order and cancel it before the exchange executes the transaction.  But only a very fast and expensive computer can do this.  So they can make a very nice (if small) return on a trade.  Since the trade happens in a very short time, the ROI is very high.  Similarly, those derivatives and CDS were virtual assets which these investors were able to leverage up to 30:1.  A great deal of money was made without having any real assets to back the transaction.  This is how the rich make money without any need for actual labor.

The most frightening trend I see is the drive to improve productivity.  More and more companies can produce goods with fewer employees.  The ultimate outcome of this trend is a growing population of people who cannot find work under any circumstances.  This condition is not their fault ... industry just doesn’t need as many workers.  This is a serious problem which needs to be fixed.  We cannot have a significant part of our people unable to find work due to improved efficiencies in the system.

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By stcfarms, September 2, 2009 at 8:13 am Link to this comment

As long as American believe that wealth is pretty pictures of dead leaders
printed on linen they will be slaves. Wealth is food, water, freedom, knowledge
et cetera, when you become self sufficient you will no longer be a slave. They
have not created wealth out of nothing, they have created wealth out of the
ignorance of their slaves. You were right when you wanted to leave the system,
I left the system in 1977 and would do it again in a heartbeat.

By C.Curtis.Dillon, September 2 at 9:04 am #

The current economic system is ruinous to our future and to the planet we live
on.  We can no longer afford a system that places money above all else.  We
can no longer live on a planet where the few live obscene lives while the many
struggle just to survive.  Pittsburgh is our line in the sand.  If we fail to show
resolve, the greedy and self-interested will simply bury us.  As one commenter
pointed out, they no longer need our labor.  They can create wealth out of
nothing.  We owe it to our children and to future generations to change this
disaster NOW.

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By KDelphi, September 2, 2009 at 7:49 am Link to this comment

C. Curtis Dillon—very good points, there at the park, and I agree with most of it! We have to draw a line somewhere or they will just keep pushing us back!

If you can get FluffPo to blog something like that, I will have a newly (re)found respect for them…

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By C.Curtis.Dillon, September 2, 2009 at 7:43 am Link to this comment

One other comment I left out: we should have let the banks collapse last year.  This would have accomplished part of what we need to do if there is any hope of fixing this disaster.  We just propped up all the failed banks and set in motion another round of speculation which will bring the whole thing down again in a few years.  With the banks in ruins, we would have been faced with reworking the entire system and, maybe, getting it more right.  Applying the patches we just did only postpones the inevitable.  And, instead of downsizing the “too big to fail” banks, Bush and Obama made them even bigger and more likely to fail.

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By C.Curtis.Dillon, September 2, 2009 at 6:04 am Link to this comment

Busy day taking the kid to the local park so I just had a chance to read the entire stream.  Have to get priorities straight!

Anyway, there are several things I want to consider.  First, I was around for the civil rights marches and have vivid memories about Selma, Montgomery and the Memphis garbage worker’s strike where Martin was murdered.  What made the biggest impressions were the peaceful marchers being attached by guard dogs, baton wielding police and fires hoses.  Also the first black students at U Miss (with a military escort) confronted by George Wallace and the frothing anger of the white mob.  This last image was profound as it showed who were the humans and who were the animals.

The same can be said for the police riots in Chicago during the RNC convention.  Many of us came to see the corruption of our government in those images.  I think it was a turning point in the anti-war movement.

Some of you have suggested we simply turn away from “the system”.  I have suggested that at other times but I think we have a unique opportunity to make a huge impact in Pittsburgh.  First, that city is symbolic of the industrial might we once enjoyed but have lost.  It is also a meeting of the G20 ... all the world’s major economies are represented so we have a captive audience.  And it comes at a time of great hardship for a significant segment of our population.  By staging a huge protest on a scale these people have never seen before, we can make a very clear statement that we will no longer accept business as usual.  And, while non-violence is absolutely the best way to make our point, the sheer magnitude of this protest would overwhelm the police.  They would be unable to enforce the “free speech” zones and the possibility of actually reaching the meeting site is quite high.  How great an impact would there be if the delegates could look out across a million faces?  We need to make this personal ... we need to make them see that real people are influenced by their decisions.

As for the media, have we not learned anything this year?  Didn’t our friends in Iran show us how to get the word out?  We have cell phones, digital cameras and a readily accessible Internet.  We can create any number of blogs, Twitter and FaceBook accounts and overwhelm the net with e-mails.  We are the reporters.  And I am sure that TruthDig and Huffington plus a host of other internet news groups would be more than willing to blog this event like they did for Iran.

The current economic system is ruinous to our future and to the planet we live on.  We can no longer afford a system that places money above all else.  We can no longer live on a planet where the few live obscene lives while the many struggle just to survive.  Pittsburgh is our line in the sand.  If we fail to show resolve, the greedy and self-interested will simply bury us.  As one commenter pointed out, they no longer need our labor.  They can create wealth out of nothing.  We owe it to our children and to future generations to change this disaster NOW.

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By Purple Girl, September 2, 2009 at 6:04 am Link to this comment

“Free Market” had nothing to do with Regulatory issues. The Free Market was coined to mean that all Citizens had access to not only be consumers and labor, but also the merchants.
We do not have a Free market as it was intended by our Founders. What we have is an updated version of a market controlled by Nobles and a merchant class under the guise of a Logo (‘Family Crest’).
Americans have the right to stand onthe other side of the market table as individuals and as a collective to be a supplier, vendor, producer, and a Provider of Goods and services.
The Repugs and their Corp overlords are not blocking the Federal Gov’t from the Free Market regarding healthcare- They are Blocking “We the People”.
The Repugs miscontrued the Term and Dems have let them. De regualtion does not denote a Free Market, Accessiblity does!

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By thebeerdoctor, September 2, 2009 at 3:33 am Link to this comment

re: C.Curtis.Dillon,

The glory of capitalism is that we are allowed to sit here and listen to how he stole all that money.

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By C.Curtis.Dillon, September 2, 2009 at 1:48 am Link to this comment

A few weeks ago, Bill Gates was in India.  Microsoft has a huge facility there where they employ up to 1000 programmers.  But, that wasn’t enough for Bill.  Microsoft has a research group there populated by India PhDs who went to school in America and Europe because India doesn’t have any advanced degree programs yet.  Bill’ suggestion to India: immediately start programs to train researchers who can then go to work for Microsoft and other software companies.  That suggestion would allow Microsoft to eliminate their R&D groups stateside (at considerable savings) and do basic development on the cheap in India.  Just the latest stab in the back for American labor by a proud American.

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By CharlyAndy, September 2, 2009 at 1:34 am Link to this comment

To Outraged:  The State these days is the Blackwater for the Corporations and our aristocratic elite.  I had a student that said she kept a gun in case the government came for her.  I asked her if she had heard of Ruby Ridge or Waco.  One should be pretty careful when going against forces well-equipped and trained in violence.  Non-violence is the only effective answer to violence.

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By KDelphi, September 2, 2009 at 12:23 am Link to this comment

Outraged—I will be there! I have plans for a probably , bus or van, and tents, but I think I would need , like a hostel nearby, in case I couldnt be outside all night..are you going? Does anyone here know philly well enough to know if there’s a university or hostel near enough where one could stay cheaply? Thanks!

Is there a site for ride boards and such?? Anyone?

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By Outraged, September 1, 2009 at 10:44 pm Link to this comment

Re: CharlyAndy

Your comment: We have been cowed since Kent State by the almighty violent power of the State.”

I disagree.

It is CORRUPTION of the state, by corporate entities, and not the state itself.  Government (especially democracies) are good, except when they answer to corporate power instead of The Will of The People.

If you can…. go to Pittsburgh.

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By christian96, September 1, 2009 at 9:49 pm Link to this comment

Jean Gerard—-I couldn’t have said it better myself.
The problem confronting the protesters is puppets
planted by various groups to start trouble therefore
discrediting the protesters.

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By Jean Gerard, September 1, 2009 at 9:27 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

So what I said two days ago that wasn’t printed is: If you go to Pittsburgh, practice the non-violent resistance tactics of Martin Luther King.  The cops are apt to over-react for various reasons, including fear and anger.  If fear and anger are met with more fear and anger, the results are destructive and media has a chance to present the usual view that protests are a bunch of kooks.  This detracts from the message every time.  Non-violence is a discipline that requires careful training and self-control. But it can be done.  Attitude counts,  Dignity counts.  Hopefully the truth can and will prevail. I don’t know why Chris didn’t mention any of this in his article, but he should have.

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By Outraged, September 1, 2009 at 8:12 pm Link to this comment

“If you can, go to Pittsburgh. This is an opportunity to defy the titans of the corporate state and speak in words that describe our reality. The power elite fear these words. If these words seep into the population, if they become part of our common vernacular, the elite and the systems they defend will be unmasked.”

The voices of history are calling us.  All the voices, the multitudes… all the voices of of all humanity are calling us….... the peoples of the world, including your own brethen, are calling….  The famous and the unfamous, the “important” and the “unimportant”.

If you can….... go to Pittsburgh.

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By truedigger3, September 1, 2009 at 5:05 pm Link to this comment

diamond wrote:
“If you can get the bankers into court and prove they’ve committed a crime (big if) then by all means do it but the main focus of the Obama camp should be to stabilize the economy”
___________________________________________________

diamond,

The FDIC can takeover any failed bank and fire its management. There is no need to wait the result of any prosecution and a conviction.
Of course there has to be new regulations for the financial system, and that is the way the economy will be stablized.
Now the same banks with the same people are back to their old tricks. They are agains speculating, now, in commodities, and again, creating uncertainties and anxieties.
They are borrowing huge sum of printed money from the Federal reserve at almost zero percent and using it to buy treasury bonds that give 3.5% and proclaiming that they are finally out of the woods and are making a profit??!! How rediculous??!!

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By truedigger3, September 1, 2009 at 4:36 pm Link to this comment

Fat Freddy wrote :
“But, in all fairness to Bill Gates, I can tell you, being on an advisory commitee for Op-Tec (The National Center for Optics and Photonics Education), that there is a real shortage of high tech workers.”
____________________________________________________

Bill Gates and his ilk are lying bastards. The so called shortage is a fabrication to have an execue to import high tech people by the tens of thousands who will work like slaves for much less or to offshore high tech work to India, China and Estern Europe.
Age discrimination is rampant, and engineering have become like modeling, only the young can work. Currently there are tens of thousands of engineers and programmers who are looking for work!!
Maybe eventually, finally, Bill Gates and his ilk,  will get the shortage they claimed for too long.
I hear a lot of stories of high Tech students who are changing majors after what they saw and are seeing happening to Engineers and prgrammers.

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By OzarkMichael, September 1, 2009 at 3:39 pm Link to this comment

Another day, another summit. Hope a good time is had by officials and protesters alike. Yes, even those who buy American made cars are actually buying cars made elsewhere and stamped with a US automaker logo

Oh, and fat freddy, go suck on a piece of German violin string. And give my regards to Mickey Rooney.

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By jean gerard, September 1, 2009 at 2:56 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

So again—where is my comment from yesterday?  Unless I missed it going down the list, it’s not there and it ought to be because it contains an important statement cautioning about violence.  I’m coming out of some years of experience here, and I don’t want the Pittsburgh protest to end up on the front pages as a bunch of crazies being beat up and tasered, which is all too likely to occur due to fear, lack of understanding and experience, and media hype.  Chris didn’t mention any of these decisive elements in his original column, unfortunately.

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By Volma, September 1, 2009 at 2:43 pm Link to this comment

Since Obama was elected, it seems like the liberal resistance to the war, civil liberties has become forgotten…It’s almost as if people are doing the exact thing that the neoconservatives Bush worshipers, did..We have had blind faith, we do not question, we do not resist, we make excuses,  and hope for the best as we are being sold down the river, by transparent deceptions and lies..Again, it’s like the king, Obama, and his court, senate, congress, are totally in control, we are the powerless, ignorant, child like peasants who serve the new (same as the old,) aristocracy…The true puppet masters don’t have to nor do they want to have the accolades of high office, they don’t need this they are safer behind the shadows….The USA has been taken over from within, just like the former Soviet Union and China, and the rest of the world…We are living in the New World Order, and yet we seem to be clueless…The news from all angles serves to confuse, distort, it’s hard to tell the actual truth from fiction anymore. My gut feeling has told me all along that there is something terribly wrong with the Health care reform movement pro and con. I see that it has served a huge purpose of diverting American’s from core issues that are more immediately important. Issues that pivot on life or death worldwide and if American’s will actually ever regain our civil liberties back, or become so controlled, that in 2 generations no American or anyone else for that matter will really know what freedom, democracy and civil liberties were…This social engineering has been going on for many many decades, it’s dark it’s black, I have no clue as to what the truth or details of the realities are, I just see the finished product…I hope there are enough people to resist, to stand up, but also to promote, on a one to one level that as citizens we must find our similarities, must unite on basics, must expose/stop the paid psych-op trouble makers who make a living out of propaganda through disinformation…If we could only come to terms as humans with our own spirits, our own true purpose to live and to die, what the best of the life experience, the only thing we really know, has to offer…Strip all this down, and money never bought love, or kindness, compassion, understanding…You can buy objects but not spirits, souls and love…It’s crazy but I do believe that this is a very very important time in human history and evolution, it will go one way or another, but individually what really counts is our own spirits what we can do individually to make a better world, and that can take all kinds of forms…I hope that as many people who can will show up for this, I hope there will continue to be truth put our to the masses, there is so little of it lately…I see that I have joined humanity in the action of apathy, denial and fear…I see the enemy but feel so overwhelmed by it, so helpless, insignificant, that Morally I have become defeated in spirit…But really just the ability to see this for me, tells me that I am not really defeated, just discouraged, the truth of my own humanity and that of others, even if they are brainwashed and defeated temporarily, gives me hope that the human spirit, is still very much alive and kicking….Viva la Revolution! (of the truth love and freedom of the human spirit) smile

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By Roberto, September 1, 2009 at 2:24 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Count me in. It’s just a 2 hr drive from Philly and I ain’t got a perm job to speak of so to not go and atleast show my face of dissent would truly be lazy, apathetic and hipocritical. Blogging to the choir ain’t doing much. Maybe i’ll meet a horny activist chick and get laid too. Fight da man and get ass! Sounds like a good time to me.

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By diamond, September 1, 2009 at 1:28 pm Link to this comment

Truedigger 3 it seems pure foolishness to me to believe that you can destroy your economy with impunity and that there won’t be any horrible consequences for the people who can least afford a global economic collapse: in other words the people who really do the work that creates wealth, the working class. If you can get the bankers into court and prove they’ve committed a crime (big if) then by all means do it but the main focus of the Obama camp should be to stabilize the economy by stabilizing the financial system and corporations and to then change the banking system by regulation and to put watchdogs in place to keep the stockbrokers and corporations on the straight and narrow path. There’s an old saying: opportunity makes thieves. The de-regulated market is an endless opportunity and until that’s changed the chaotic greed and lawlessness of the Bush/Cheney era will continue. Even if bankers hung from every street light the work of changing the system would still have to be done.

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By thebeerdoctor, September 1, 2009 at 12:39 pm Link to this comment

re: elisalouisa

Thank you for your kind observations. And especially for your comments on August 31, 7:35 pm and what the globalized bail-out actually translates into. Thank you again.
The Beer Doctor

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By futurist, September 1, 2009 at 11:43 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

In my opinion, there is no doubt that the post-industrial revolution has rendered all existing economic systems obsolete. It is certainly time for a new economic paradigm.

HOWEVER, protesting the existing paradigm does nothing to help create a new one. What is required is a genius economist who can elucidate a system suited to the modern world. I see no new ideas in this column or any of the comments. Protesting the existing system without offering a better idea is pointless.

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By elisalouisa, September 1, 2009 at 11:30 am Link to this comment

Beerdoctor:To many, Ghandi is remembered for the salt march and imprisonment.
Fewer emphasize the “home spun” aspect of his protest. Perhaps it is time to
remember this
***************************************************
So true.  Hopefully the American people will wake up. As time goes by I fear a
police state will become more prevalent thus curtailing activity as to protests.
Almost nothing we wear or use is made in America. When I bought my first
foreign car in the mid 80s I was hoping GM would wake up as to which cars were
selling. I was a dreamer. They have been rewarded for their ineptness(the CEO’s)
by being given bail out money that is being used to open GM factories in China.
Alright! Wall street wins again.

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By Fat Freddy, September 1, 2009 at 8:43 am Link to this comment

What does that mean?

Just trying to make a point that Pitt. is a working class town, that was built on the steel industry, which was basically put out of business by cheap Japanese steel. Just like Youngstown was. But I would never compare Pitt to Youngstown :(

Just messin’ with you, I’m from Philly (area). And Philly is considered a “blue collar town”, also, by some. In fact, most of the NE was once the manufacturing center of the World.

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By Fat Freddy, September 1, 2009 at 8:29 am Link to this comment

bane-richter,

Perhaps I misspoke. I don’t consider IT to be high-tech. Lasers, optical fiber, CAD/CAM, robotics, electrical engineering technology, materials science, is what I consider high-tech. Strong backgrounds in Physics, Mathematics, Chemistry, etc. And education is the problem. In ‘91, when I went back to school, at least half of the class couldn’t solve a simple algebraic equation like Ohm’s Law: I=V/R. Solve it for R.  Most of the instructors were Indian (dots not feathers) and Russian immigrants. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but it shows that there’s a lack of instructors here. But I don’t want to get too far off topic.

I am no defender of Gates or Microsoft. I have MS software and maybe I paid for it, maybe I didn’t. But that whole anti-trust lawsuit against MS, in my opinion, was about the government trying to get their hands on people’s information, for law enforcement and intelligence. They were forcing MS to comply. The same way they’re going after Google now, or planning too.

http://www.reason.com/blog/show/135283.html

That’s just my paranoid opinion.

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By rico, suave, September 1, 2009 at 8:28 am Link to this comment

fat freddy:

“Oh, and rfidler, go suck on a piece of Japanese steel. And give my regards to the Art Rooney.”

What does that mean?

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By Rodger Lemonde, September 1, 2009 at 8:17 am Link to this comment

For a more effective protest I suggest that vast
numbers of people plan to mess with the market.

Plan to purchase as much as possible on day one of
the event then spend as little as possible on day
two.

Protest rolls of their backs like water off a duck.
Market forces wielded by the populous will scare the
hell out of them. All it would take is a minor bit of
personal planning. If 2 million people spend an
average of $200 dollars more than usual on one day
and just minimal purchase the next day, it has to
show up as an anomaly. People would just be
scheduling a few normal expenditures to coincide
with a particular date, not feeding extra cash to the
market. No threat of retaliation, bodily harm, jail
or porta potties. It would be even more effective if
no one was anywhere near the meeting so that the
security effort looks way paranoid.

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By thebeerdoctor, September 1, 2009 at 7:43 am Link to this comment

bane-richter’s comments on Bill Gates and Microsoft are completely on target. The suggestion to stop using Windows is a good one. Do you want to stop feeding the corporate greed driven juggernaut? Learn about open source, learn about Linux and free operating systems. Whether it is Microsoft or Apple, stop giving them your money.

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By bane-richter, September 1, 2009 at 7:28 am Link to this comment

There is no real shortage of high tech workers. IBM and Intel find workers in Brazil and Argentina all the time for 10/hr.  According to Bill Gates, and the greedy monopoly of IT in this country, there is always a shortage. (of people that they want to pay a reasonable salary) It is very sad that many folks in the “trenches” of IT buy into the stream of bullsh$t from their corporate masters. Can’t we be just a little bit more enlightened? Historically, the workers are always blamed.
Bill Gates is, was and will always be part of the problem. Stealing his way to wealth and then pulling a robber-barron philantrophy effort to scrub his years of Corporate Violence.
Why do criminals always turn around after they’ve accumulated more wealth then God, through no creativity of their own, and then lecture the masses on the importance of good education. hygiene or whatever proposterious crap they can come up with. Give anyone the legal team and the power that Gates had to steal from competitors, buy them off, corrupt Government regulators and we’ll all be billionaires too. Never use Windows, never pay a cent for software. Bill Gates is one reason G-20 should be an explosive scene of protest.  Bill Gates is a criminal like Dick Cheney is a terrorist, when you surround yourself with power, you can get away with murder.

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By Fat Freddy, September 1, 2009 at 7:24 am Link to this comment

A “news” item the other day reported that Amtrak trains won’t even be stopping in Pittsburg during the “summit.”  How’s that for “clout”?

Amtrak is heavily subsidized by the US government.

Oh, and rfidler, go suck on a piece of Japanese steel. And give my regards to the Art Rooney.

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By Rodger Lemonde, September 1, 2009 at 6:59 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Real terrorists have spiffy professional looking logos.
And they own more legislators than your state.

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By Fat Freddy, September 1, 2009 at 6:43 am Link to this comment

felicity,

That’s the whole problem, the market is not free in its current state. Too much centralized planning by those with all the money and power. Money is no longer a means to buy and sell goods and services, but a means to gain power and control. But, in all fairness to Bill Gates, I can tell you, being on an advisory commitee for Op-Tec  (The National Center for Optics and Photonics Education), that there is a real shortage of high tech workers.


KDelphi,

I gave up on the indulgences of owning myself when I stopped experimenting with certain substances smile But I’ll tell you what, with the way things are going right now, I just may be free that day. I work in the building trades, and nobody, and I mean nobody has ever seen it this bad, including myself. My business is only a few years old. Last year, I had four guys working for me, full time. This year, I can barely keep myself busy, and this is supposed to be my busy time of year.


truedigger3

While I agree in general with your statements, I have to say, I have been disappointed with the way the FDIC has been handling some of the smaller failed banks. Instead of splitting up the assets of these banks, they seem to be “auctioning off” the “entire package” to a single entity.  Sure, it cuts down on their workload, but it is just adding to the problem of consolidation of the banking system. There are about 8100 banks in this country, yet only four control 40% of the deposits and 50% of all assets. Do I need to name them? I can tell you from experience, in my community, it is the smaller community banks that are funding almost all of the local and regional commercial projects (the ones that create jobs). While BoA and Wachovia (Wells Fargo) just seem to take people’s money, charge ridiculous hidden fees and generally suck the life out of the community.

ardee,

I am certainly not trying to discourage anyone from protesting. In fact, I wish I could. My quote from Nietzsche was just meant to caution people. I’m sure there will be “monsters” present, on both sides, present company excluded, of course.

I sympathize with the fate of your company. You were directly competing with the “big boys”. You should understand how the big corporate entities use their money, power and influence to lobby the government to obtain unfair competitive advantages over the smaller, “weaker” competition. The only thing big corporations hate more than taxes is fair and free competition. And then, of course, if they can’t beat you, they’ll buy you.

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By thebeerdoctor, September 1, 2009 at 5:56 am Link to this comment

Thanks to nestoffour for the understanding. elisalouisa, there are many aspects to the Mahatma’s legacy, but it should be remembered that in India, they were the majority and their colonial masters were the minority. Ghandi recognized this and knew that using incredibly stubborn satyagraha, the British would be forced to give it up. But how long was it from Amritsar to Independence?
But strategic disengagement is by no means an acquiescence to the corporate power structure, it is more along the lines that since the so-called system is totally invalid, you have no obligation to offer it validity. This is what nestoffour points out, when referring to direct living. Instead of confronting a power structure that WANTS violence, it might be better to boycott that arena where the rules are fixed, even before you step on the field. Instead being herded like cattle into a “free speech” zone, I would much rather retrieve old computers and make them usable for people who can not afford them. As the old saying goes: “time is precious”.
To many, Ghandi is remembered for the salt march and imprisonment. Fewer emphasize the “home spun” aspect of his protest. Perhaps it is time to remember this also.

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By CharlyAndy, September 1, 2009 at 4:08 am Link to this comment

As for the notion that hitting the streets can’t be effective, let’s watch Honduras as those brave people refuse to “get the message” that their resistance is futile, that they should just relax and enjoy the coup.  We have been cowed since Kent State by the almighty violent power of the State.  Remember, violence is their game.  Don’t go up against that with the attitude of “fighting fire with fire.”  Guess who will get burned up.  Gandhi and MLK have already shown us that the overwhelming non-violent expression of the people will win in the end.  On to Pittsburg!

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By ardee, September 1, 2009 at 3:19 am Link to this comment

rfidler, September 1 at 1:41 am #

ardee:

Get off this blog you worthless hypocrite.

................................

I offer my thanks to you for so readily exposing yourself for what you really are, and my kudos to Folktruther for first calling you out on your stupidity.

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By nestoffour, September 1, 2009 at 12:26 am Link to this comment

thebeerdoctor: “What I think (note that this is a personal opinion), is that people who recognize that the obvious falsehoods of the present day system need not engage with it at all. In fact a strategic disengagement from all political, social and cultural nonsense, seems to me a better path to take. I can not state this like say, Tao Walker would put it, but I think it is important to rediscover our true human identity.”

that’s direct living, and it seems like a good idea to me.  everything we do these days outside the system that controls us is a revolutionary act.  direct living is a revolutionary act.  growing your own food, bartering, homebirthing, teaching your own children, getting rid of your tv, repairing instead of buying, making instead of buying, buying local when needed, helping others .. and in the process we “rediscover our true human identity.”

i am not saying that people should not be protesting, far from it, but i hope more will understand the wisdom of TBD’s words.

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By LostHills, August 31, 2009 at 11:34 pm Link to this comment

You don’t have to travel to Pittsburgh to protest. You can protest wherever you are at. You can and you must. Don’t acquiesce. Don’t accept the role they have defined for you and your children’s children as humble slaves to their greed, vanity and ambition. Stand up to them and fight back. Your lives depend on it.

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By plainsman, August 31, 2009 at 10:56 pm Link to this comment

I hope you’re right, Chris Hedges, that the current setup/system is coming apart. But I agree with Tao Walker, mass protests don’t work anymore. Prior to the US invasion of Iraq, millions protested worldwide to no effect.

Gandhi described the British in India as a jewel-headed snake. The same or some similar label seems appropriate for the current “foreign” rulers of the Western World: corporations with no allegiance to either the nations or to the citizens of those nations which they exploit.

It seems, as was the case in India during the Quit India Movement, that it is necessary for citizens of the West to engage in mass acts of civil disobedience. Every new law passed, however small, is an opportunity for civil disobedience. (Even refusing to mow your lawns in most cities in Canada and the United States is an act of civil disobedience.)

And there is nothing forcing any of you in the US to purchase health insurance or to put your money in the banks.

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By elisalouisa, August 31, 2009 at 9:17 pm Link to this comment

Beerdoctor:
Did Gandhi think of the British empire as an “illusion of power.” I think not. Were
his protests affective. I think so. Gandhi was a leader and the truth of colonial
injustice caught on. Such injustice is here now with our jobs going elsewhere, lack
of national healthcare, imperial wars and other global adventures. Will such a
protest work? That is not the right question. You protest because you feel you
must, because you are not a sheep. The real question is, where is our Gandhi?
What will wake up our people before it is too late.

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By thebeerdoctor, August 31, 2009 at 8:56 pm Link to this comment

I really do not see how going to Pittsburgh and supposedly “defying your empire” will accomplish anything. First, the royal court of world players attending this summit will be so far physically and psychically removed from the protests; that is why they hire that goon squad army of theirs, in the name of national and international security.
Second, the idea of mass demonstrations, street theater if you will, is romantically and erroneously based on the idea that publicity alone will arouse the conscience of a nation. This is rooted largely in coverage of the barbaric treatment of civil rights demonstrators in the South, which were broadcast to a shocked country on national television special news bulletins. This can also be said of the police riot in Chicago in 1968, at the Democratic National Convention. Would such unbridled coverage of emerging events be allowed today, under the present media structures? That is for the reader to decide.
What I think (note that this is a personal opinion), is that people who recognize that the obvious falsehoods of the present day system need not engage with it at all. In fact a strategic disengagement from all political, social and cultural nonsense, seems to me a better path to take. I can not state this like say, Tao Walker would put it, but I think it is important to rediscover our true human identity. Such recognition I believe, would lead to a realization concerning the illusion of power.
We are on our own with everything. It is up to each of us to work with this fact.

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By Jon, August 31, 2009 at 5:21 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

When the Spanish ‘conquered’ Latin America, and started mining and shipping sliver and gold back to Spanish ports, the monetary proceeds did not stay in Spain.  This was because Spain was mortgaged to the hilt to Germany, France and other nations—-so the bankers got the money (or the gold and silver) as payment on Spanish debt. 

It’s been going on for centuries.

We’ve fallen into the trap of not just the banks usury and special Treasury welfare, but of allowing corporate charters (the sole purpose is to make a profit—whatever it takes) to destroy America’s economy and labor force.  Unless we stop these trends, we will be like the Third World—-a very wealthy elite at the top, and the rest of us selling vegetables and used cell phones by the roadside.

Corporations and banks do NOT care about locality and nationalism anymore.  (go to the IBM jobs web site and note the hundreds of posted jobs—-located in India). It’s up to us to reclaim our politics, and our economy, or we go down.

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By Susan, August 31, 2009 at 4:40 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

TaoWalker
I tend to agree with you. The energy being spent on arguing amongst ourselves only supports the initiative of NWO.  Disengage, and allow it all to fall from it’s own negative weight, as in martial arts…there is a move in which you simply step aside an attacker, and allow them to crash to the ground. Perhaps that is appropriate here.. Ancient disciplines understand this law of nature. Everything (even NWO, organized criminals, etc) is ruled by Natural Law, which is in our favor at this time. remember - No attachment ?

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By elisalouisa, August 31, 2009 at 4:35 pm Link to this comment

Globalization: What it means to the American taxpayer who footed the bill on the bailout:
**********************
The Flint Journal 12/02/08—Get ready for more job losses in Flint.??Even with a $12 billion government loan for General
Motors, observers say GM’s plan to cut upwards of 31,000 jobs won’t spare the Flint area.??“Flint will not be unscathed,” said
Kristin Dziczek, senior project manager of the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor, who predicted hundreds of GM
workers in Genesee County could lose their jobs.??How deep the pain is felt, however, is still anyone’s guess.
Mark Hawkins, UAW Local 598 shop chairman, said the loss of more jobs will be devastating given the trickle down effect in
the local economy.
“It doesn’t look good,” said Hawkins.
In a plan given to Congress on Tuesday, GM said it will take significant steps to restructure by 2012—including cutting
21,000 to 31,000 more hourly and salaried workers, closing nine plants and slicing 1,750 dealer locations. ??The bottom line:
These cuts would drop the number of GM workers nationwide to 65,000—down from 191,000 in 2000.
The automaker hopes the plan will convince lawmakers to give it up to $18 billion from the government: $12 billion in loans,
including $4 billion by the end of December, and a separate $6 billion line of credit in case market conditions worsen.??“Absent
such assistance, the company will default in the near term, very likely precipitating a total collapse of the domestic industry,”
GM officials said, contending its collapse would have “a ripple effect that will have severe, long-term consequences to the
U.S. economy.”
Where did these jobs go? Along with you bailout money: See below:
*********************************?
SHANGHAI (Reuters) - General Motors said on Sunday it has agreed to set up a light commercial vehicle production venture
with major Chinese automaker FAW Group, with total investment of 2 billion yuan ($293 million).
The 50-50 joint venture, based in the northeast China city of Changchun in Jilin province, will make light-duty trucks and
vans, GM said in a statement.
“For us in China, this is an important complement to the rest of our portfolio,” Kevin Wale, president and managing director
for GM’s China operations, told reporters in a conference call.
“We are well established in passenger vehicles and mini commercial vehicles and we haven’t had a presence in the truck
segment. Adding a truck portfolio rounds that out.”
The venture will use two existing FAW plants in Changchun and the city of Harbin, also in the northeast, with combined
annual capacity of roughly 90,000 vehicles, Wale said.
A greenfield plant, currently under construction in Harbin, will add 100,000 units of capacity by the end of next year, he said.
Vehicles made at the venture will carry the FAW brand and will focus on supplying the China market, but they could be
exported under a GM brand through the Detroit automaker’s global network in the future, Wale said.
GM is making Buick, Chevrolet and Cadillac models at its flagship China venture with SAIC Motor Corp. It also makes minivans,
pickup trucks and the Spark compact car in a three-way tie-up with SAIC and Liuzhou Wuling Automobile.
***********************
Cannot believe our government when throwing bailout money(our tax dollars) to GM did not know that the jobs created
would be in China. Yet, not a peep from “the people.”

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By ardee, August 31, 2009 at 3:49 pm Link to this comment

Sometimes you have to choose the lesser of two evils and Americans with their ‘black and white’ view of economics and social policy find this hard to accept.

While I agree with most contained within this post of diamond, August 31 at 4:37 pm # I cannot accept the above quote therefrom. The lesser of two evils is a phrase that has caused much harm and will continue to do so until all good folks understand that evil is as it is, there is no consolation in the “lesser” evil, only in the greater good.

Condoning, in any way, the actions of the financial community that took us to the brink of disaster and economic ruin simply assures a repetition of that action. The bailout, the TARP funds the entire handling of this ruinous mess, has left those responsible richer and , more importantly, still in charge and still assured of their power to reap personal profit at the expense of the majority.

I will not go so far as to say these men should be hanging from lampposts but the conciliatory words of diamond actually bring this action nearer to reality.

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By rico, suave, August 31, 2009 at 3:45 pm Link to this comment

During the recent townhall meetings where legislators were tortured by their constituents, there was a lot of talk about how the protests weren’t so much grassroots as “astroturf”- all set up by righwing organizations in advance. Not spontaneous at all.

Now comes Truthdig, and no doubt ACORN, etc, etc, urging the faithful on to Pittsburgh to torture the delegations.

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By Jean Gerard, August 31, 2009 at 3:32 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Agitation?  Or speaking truth to power?
People moved by fear easily become violent.  The police will be fearful of masses of people they are paid to control. The media will play up violence. The results of violence are almost always counterproductive. Therefore careful training of each and every protester in how to avoid arousing fear is absolutely essential if violence is to be avoided. Signs and symbols matter.  Attitude matters.  Facial expression matters. Response matters. Careful planning matters. Dignity matters. Nonviolence is the only viable tactic. Resurrect the Spirit of Martin Luther King.  It won’t be easy but it’s not impossible either.

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By truedigger3, August 31, 2009 at 2:29 pm Link to this comment

diamond wrote:
“Having said that, its also inaccurate to say that bailing out the banks etc. was the wrong thing to do because it didn’t punish those who had done wrong. The bigger picture is that if they had not been bailed out everyone would have been punished”
____________________________________________________

No diamond, you are wrong on this one. You are confusing saving the banks with saving the bankers.
The banks should have been taken over by FDIC and all their top management fired immediately before they pay themselves another obscene bonus.
The FDIC with more funds from the government, would have recapitalised, the not so sick, of these banks and put them on their feet again before putting them on the market for sale.
The terminally ill banks should have been closed and some of the banks who were in mortal danger might have been merged with healthier banks with FDIC helping and nudging in the background.
All the depositors in these banks wouldn’t have lost a single penny, however, the share and bond holders and speculators would have lost bigtime.
The economy would have fared much better with this scenario, but the so called “inept” bankers control the treasury and the economic policy as you said they are only interested in making more money and the economy be damned.

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