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Nader Was Right: Liberals Are Going Nowhere With Obama

Posted on Aug 10, 2009
Ralph Nader
AP / Carolyn Kaster

Ralph Nader waits for his turn to speak at a news conference during the run-up to the 2008 campaign.

By Chris Hedges

(Page 2)

“Obama is squandering his positive response around the world,” Nader said. “In terms of foreign and military policy, it is a distinct continuity with Bush. Iraq, Afghanistan, the militarization of foreign policy, the continued expansion of the Pentagon budget and pursuing more globalized trade agreements are the same.”

This is an assessment that neoconservatives now gleefully share. Eliot A. Cohen, writing in The Wall Street Journal, made the same pronouncement.

“Mostly, though, the underlying structure of the policy remains the same,” Cohen wrote in an Aug. 2 opinion piece titled “What’s Different About the Obama Foreign Policy.” “Nor should this surprise us: The United States has interests dictated by its physical location, its economy, its alliances, and above all, its values. Naive realists, a large tribe, fail to understand that ideals will inevitably guide American foreign policy, even if they do not always determine it. Moreover, because the Obama foreign and defense policy senior team consists of centrist experts from the Democratic Party, it is unlikely to make radically different judgments about the world, and about American interests in it, than its predecessors.”

Nader said that Obama should gradually steer the country away from imperial and corporate tyranny.


Square, Site wide

“You don’t just put out policy statements of congeniality, but statements of gradual redirection,” Nader said. “You incorporate in that statement not just demilitarization, not just ascension of smart diplomacy, but the enlargement of the U.S. as a humanitarian superpower, and cut out these Soviet-era weapons systems and start rapid response for disaster like earthquakes and tsunamis. You expand infectious disease programs, which the U.N. Developmental Commission says can be done for $50 billion a year in Third World countries on nutrition, minimal health care and minimal shelter.”

Obama has expanded the assistance to our class of Wall Street extortionists through subsidies, loan guarantees and backup declarations to banks such as Citigroup. His stimulus package does not address the crisis in our public works infrastructure; instead it doles out funds to Medicaid and unemployment compensation. There will be no huge public works program to remodel the country. The president refuses to acknowledge the obvious—we can no longer afford our empire.

“Obama could raise a call to come home, America, from the military budget abroad,” Nader suggested. “He could create a new constituency that does not exist because everything is so fragmented, scattered, haphazard and slapdash with the stimulus. He could get the local labor unions, the local Chambers of Commerce and the mayors to say the more we cut the military budget, the more you get in terms of public works.” 

“They [administration leaders] don’t see the distinction between public power and corporate power,” Nader said. “This is their time in history to reassert public values represented by workers, consumers, taxpayers and communities. They are creating a jobless recovery, the worst of the worst, with the clear specter of inflation on the horizon. We are heading for deep water.”

The massive borrowing acts as an anesthetic. It prevents us from facing the new limitations we must learn to cope with domestically and abroad. It allows us to live in the illusion that we are not in a state of irrevocable crisis, that our decline is not real and that catastrophe has been averted. But running up the national debt can work only so long.

“No one can predict the future,” Nader added hopefully. “No one knows the variables. No one predicted the move on tobacco. No one predicted gay rights. No one predicted the Berkeley student rebellion. The students were supine. You never know what will light the fire. You have to keep the pressure on. I know only one thing for sure: The whole liberal-progressive constituency is going nowhere.”

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Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, August 12, 2009 at 9:52 am Link to this comment

I only use the word when in a heat of passion whether in anger or some such emotional state. Otherwise it becomes a grotesque blot of useless space when a multitude of other words aren’t in use to fill it with a richness that is lacking. How about a dictionary and thesaurus to use?

So much of the language is dying due to those that think they are somehow being ‘real’ by using it constantly. There is a place for it. Just not every other word in a casual way. With a 100,000 words to choose from most people in the USA barely have 25,000 in their lexicon. Most much less.

And Nader was right.

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thebeerdoctor's avatar

By thebeerdoctor, August 12, 2009 at 9:40 am Link to this comment

Sad to see that there are so many who equate injustice with sexual violence. Thus corporate crimes are equated with physical rape; thus coitus is implied to be a forced act, as the F word is used throughout the society; from hip hop thuggery to implied prison buggery. Unfortunately for those who scream the loudest, their brutality in language reveals that they mimic what they protest against. I am reminded on an episode of HBO’s The Sopranos, where Tony the crime boss, hears his son cursing and instructs him: “Watch your fucking mouth!”
How utterly silly the humourless really are.

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BlueBerry Pick'n's avatar

By BlueBerry Pick'n, August 12, 2009 at 9:08 am Link to this comment

What’s wrong with people who fear language in all its wide diversity?
maybe they dislike the word fuck, for instance.

petty snivelers use language as a powerplay excuse to deny whose ideas & arguments are ‘valid’ or ‘acceptable’ for common discourse.  Its like people who presume the use of any analogy to sex is ‘homophobic’.  Sorry TheBeerDoctor, but to insist that any reference to fucking is a homosexual slur rather denies the fact that women have been known to enjoy cock, too

I thought it was entirely amusing that Dick Cheney used ‘good clean language while being a warcriminal tyrant & made hostile, threatening demands that anyone who addressed him ‘not use dirty language with ME!!
ah, the power of the act the appalled diva: implying that self-expression be *justified* to the petulant ear of an Arbiter of Language

Here in Canada, one can watch profanity-ruined art such as The Big Lebowski on broadcast tv with mere caution that says, “this has strong language
They let people make up their own minds in many countries. A lot of American media SELF-CENSORS for sex or language because some asshole in a room somewhere decides there is POWER in deciding who is allowed to say or do or think
thus, Art is wittled down & defaced with sad overdubs & edits
until the editing goes on in our heads & we begin to believe that any idea must fundamentally transformed to be ACCEPTABLE
it only works when power-hungry censors obtain their ONLY POWER by convincing OTHERS that CLAMPING OUR HANDS OVER THE EARS & EYES OF OURSELVES becomes an “expression of Freedom & self-determination”

We know this is garbage:  censorship only works upon those cringingly coward enough to accept the fear of social condemnation from the most fretful & crotchety
Nope, *suck* isn’t a homosexual reference, either:  sorry, I know it meant a lot to you to imply I’m something I’m not.  Good try at the “Gotchya Game”, though

Maybe its part of that aspiring whole ‘American Dreamland’ fetishism where they wrap everything in a “Every Little Girl is a Sparkly Pink Princess!! fantasy, ultimately denying a participation in Reality because REALITY is just too fucking real.  That gives them a whole *other* game to play as they stomp their feet in frustration that an idea was bigger than they could handle: Oh, don’t you use those acceptable words with me!!  ugly sex doesn’t enter into my Life Bubble!!!  behold as I waive my magic wand of censorship: be gone!!
This reminds me of a guy & his 8-year-old son by a pig pen at a hobby farm several years ago.  I mentioned in an aside to my partner, Oh, look @ all the little bacons!  Slapping his hands *violently* over the child’s ears, the Daddy hissed at me, “how DARE you say that?!  I haven’t told him it comes from pigs!!

Delusional Prisses believe enforcing the World to conform to their preferred standards & demands is Freedom.
Its a steep, slippery slope from “bad language! down to bad ideas!
its un-American!, its un-holy!... its… !
maybe that’s how you got where you are?


see?  the word has meaning that can be inherent to its implementation
pretending you’re the Enforcing Arbiter of Language & its use *for everyone else*

pretending that I’m a homophobe
is pathetic

You couldn’t be farther from the Truth, but Truth doesn’t count anymore, does it?
its how you play the Game & stomp your feet that makes you feel better…

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By Folktruther, August 12, 2009 at 7:30 am Link to this comment

Electoral politics in the US is dead.  tow parties, ten parties it doesn’t matter.  The ruling class has set up a truth system, money system, legal system,  electoral system and violence system that guarantees their interests will be protected while class inequality continues to increase along with the destitution it entails. 

this is the last stage of neoliberal capitalism that marxists have been discussing for a centruy and a half.  An increase in corporate size and power and an increasingly rich ruling class and destitute population.

But of course simple marxist truths are illegitimate in the US mainstream truth. It is incompatible with the school, which I shall name in Inherit’s honor, of magical cretinism.  The mainstrream conceptual language of people and power so fragment our conceptions and preconceptions of reality that we cannot see political reality steady and see it whole.  The crackpot realists think they are talking scientifically when they focus on trivia.

And our spiritual ideologies that instill our moral values rely on magical thinking that allow us to evade looking at the barbarism and power decay of present day America, and draw realistic power implications.  We wish to be magically transformed back to the US’s historical bourgeois Democracy.  With real elections.

It ain’t going to happen.  Neoliberal capitalism is no longer a viable competitive system in the world, and Freedom&Democracy; is equated with the US candidate winning a fraudulent election.  If an opponent of US imperialism wins, he is a Dictator.

Americans may believe in such a system for a while longer, but the rest of the world has turned away in disgust.  Sooner or later we will follow them.

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By jccampb, August 12, 2009 at 7:29 am Link to this comment

A major point missed by the article is what most folks seldom pick up on, unless they have read Gen. Washington’s farewell address or Charles Dumas’s biography of Jefferson. 
General Washington detested the Party “system” (most of the other founder’s weren’t too awfully thrilled with the concept either.  Washington opined that it would be the downfall of the country simply because it set up a mechanism where the individual citizens didn’t have to ‘think’ about what a candidate would do, they would just march in ‘lock-step’ with a party and it would be the party that ‘won’ the election, not the citizens.
Jefferson said our system was designed for a population about the size of Great Britian’s at the time of the revolution and if we grew any more than that?  We would have to migrate to a Parlimentary system.
Amazing how people pick and choose which parts of history they cling to. -sigh-  I even heard someone call Jefferson a “Christian” the other day. He was a Deist.
“The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being as His Father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter ”
“The clergy, by getting themselves established by law and ingrafted into the machine of government, have been a very formidable engine against the civil and religious rights of man.”

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By Mestizo Warrior, August 12, 2009 at 7:28 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

There is a saying in the field of mental health that goes like this; “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.” That certainly applies to progressives and their trust in the Democratic Party.

I voted for Obama and yes I am disappointed. However my earlier training in the concept of class struggle reminds me that we cannot expect true change from a party or an individual who accepts bribes (contributions) from the corporate class that is sticking it to us! It just won’t happen!

The liberals and the democrats blamed Nader for Al Gore’s defeat in 2000. The truth of the matter is that Gore himself threw in the towel without so mucn as a whimper. When Gore and other “liberal” democrats in the Senate had a chance to do something about the voter rights violations in Florida, they chose to remain silent. What cowardly bastards!

I am 57 years old, a labor, civil rights and peace activist. I support single payer healthcare. However my patience is all but gone. There is NO democracy in the U.S. of A.! Never has been. Only we can make it real!

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By Trudi, August 12, 2009 at 7:24 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Diamond: well said. I value Chris Hedges, Ralph Nader, and you, who necessarily critiques them both. We need all your voices.  I admit that I will need to reread your reminders again (and again).

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By FairnessFetish, August 12, 2009 at 7:17 am Link to this comment

Greenferret:  One correction.

It’s probably 5% of your own states total votes cast for president.  Ballot access is achieved at the state level.

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By teadrinker, August 12, 2009 at 7:09 am Link to this comment

Our system as it stands is defective, the roots of the defect going back to the founding of these United States. Our system, as it is, will have to reach a lower point than it is now, before some reform takes place. As my history teacher used to say, “The roots of the present are deep in the past.” After I’m dead perhaps things will evolve.

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By Leefeller, August 12, 2009 at 6:10 am Link to this comment

As mass or mini movements start,  they do not finish.  A good third party or even fourth seems a good idea, but one only need look at reality. 

Mike Gravel cold cocked the rest of the democrats at the first debate, for they were not prepared to discuss or debate reality and truth. Can one expect such radical ideas as truth to be allowed in our government? How hard they try to keep people like Gravel and Kucinich down and out in their own party, for planned agendas are set in stone.

My doubts are many, but dreaming is what dreams are made of.

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By thebeerdoctor, August 12, 2009 at 5:49 am Link to this comment

re: Blueberry Pick’n 8/11 @ 4:29 pm

It seems that pointing out that the Nader candidacy is, in my opinion, a useless enterprise, has prompted rather strange but common remarks about “if the status quo worked so well for American stupidity, America’s shallow culture wouldn’t be (expletive) & trying to pimp out the Rest of US, now would you?”
Perhaps such language is suitable in circles that believe, I guess, invoking homophobic prostitution horror references as way to convey thoughts? So be it.
The use of the F word, whether it is a Truthdig poster, or Matt Taibbi railing against Goldman Sachs, is quite frankly, totally boring and completely unoriginal. Since a concern for reform has been stated here, perhaps a good place to start would be a better use of language

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By truedigger3, August 12, 2009 at 5:43 am Link to this comment

PhreedomPhan wrote:
“When will we ever learn?  There are no “liberals” nor “conservatives” in the upper levels of “our” government.  They only play those roles to create an illusion of choice. 

When Uncle Tom said he wanted change, I wasn’t fooled.  I knew his predecessors had stolen all our dollars and now he was after our change.”

I agree with PhreedomPhan 100%.

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By Dave Schwab, August 12, 2009 at 4:57 am Link to this comment

elisalouise, thanks for such a thoughtful reply. My comments were referring to other posts, not yours. I appreciate everyone here who is trying to have a real discussion. Peace!

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By elisalouisa, August 12, 2009 at 4:41 am Link to this comment

greenferret: True, in my post I did indicate that the powers that be “would never allow a three party system. However, I did not say that it was not worth trying. That is what you read between the lines. What you should have read is that if you(we) try we had better be ready for some surprises because power is more centralized and all means and I do mean all shall be used to prevent success of such a movement. Movement building must be catching and that happened with the Green party a few years back. Perhaps if something new was added or???? it would more inspire people who can no longer support our two Parties.  College campus blogs could be instrumental in making such a movement successful. From your post I am certain you have checked this one out.  I commend you for caring enough to actually do something instead of leaving “apocalyptic” as you put it posts on this board. Such posts indicate frustration more than a malevolent force. This energy can turn positive with the right leader. I hope my comments are not insulting for indeed that is not my intention although I must say each board has its own spirit(for want of a better word) and such attitudes can be catching.  Thank you for your links which I shall peruse later today.

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By WorkingMan, August 12, 2009 at 4:29 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“His stimulus package does not address the crisis in our public works infrastructure; instead it doles out funds to Medicaid and unemployment compensation. There will be no huge public works program to remodel the country.”

Bull. I drove through three separate road construction sites in three different cities THIS WEEK. All of them have signs that say, “This project funded by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009.”

Sorry. Obama is NOT Bush. The hatred we’re seeing for Obama is sincere. Change might not happen fast enough for some people, but it is a stretch to say Bush and Obama are different sides of the same coin. Please.

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By ardee, August 12, 2009 at 4:00 am Link to this comment

greenferret, August 12 at 7:39 am

As to the Green Party, I am an Independent who registered Green as I think they need the numbers. I voted for Nader as I felt his platform superior to that of the Green Party and I had reservations about McKinney.

The Greens are, I believe, their own worst enemy, seemingly unable to come together and make progress. While I am aware that they gain local offices with every new election cycle I fail to see a real coherency from them on a national front. I get their emails as a member but have yet to attend a gathering thereof, partially due to the lack of a presence in my area ( California’s central valley) and partially due to my commitments to other and more local activist endeavors. I do work to register Greens with every coming election and make small progress.

I do believe that third party politics has an important place in America’s political future and think that the Green Party should be there, nationally. Perhaps my increasing age comes with increasing impatience and skepticism…..

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By PhreedomPhan, August 12, 2009 at 3:40 am Link to this comment

When will we ever learn?  There are no “liberals” nor “conservatives” in the upper levels of “our” government.  They only play those roles to create an illusion of choice. 

When Uncle Tom said he wanted change, I wasn’t fooled.  I knew his predecessors had stolen all our dollars and now he was after our change.


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By Dave Schwab, August 12, 2009 at 3:39 am Link to this comment

elisalouise, what you’re saying is partially true - the political establishment has been hard at work trying to limit participation in our democracy, especially for third parties and independents. Teresa Amato’s book “Grand Illusion: the Myth of Voter Choice in a Two-Party Tyranny” should have the gory details.

However, I disagree with the attitude that “they would never allow it, so it’s not worth trying.” There are numerous examples of successful local third parties, like the Greens in Portland, ME, San Francisco, Minneapolis, and the Progressive party in Vermont - which has elected state representatives and a US Rep and Senator, Bernie Sanders.

I agree with Peetawonkus and FairnessFetish, that the Nader campaign has lots of great ideas, but seems to lack the patience for movement-building. And movement-building is always bottom-up, not top-down. I admire Nader for his work and giving people a reason to get involved in politics, but I voted Green because I wanted my vote to build a sustainable alternative.

If the Greens get 5% of the national popular vote in 2012, they will get automatic ballot access and federal matching funds in 2016. 64% of Americans want single-payer healthcare. So if 1 in every 10 who want single-payer votes for a candidate who actually supports single-payer, we will have a viable platform from which to challenge the corporate establishment parties.

If your interest in politics is leaving apocalyptic and/or insulting comments on message boards, go right ahead. If you are interested in building a progressive alternative for America’s future, get active with the Green Party today.

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By ardee, August 12, 2009 at 3:04 am Link to this comment

Perhaps the greatest value Ralph Nader brings to the political table is in his ability to bring out the wrath of the democratic apologists. No other Independent or third party figure so polarizes the political scene as does Ralph.

Just the way his attackers resort to clumsiness and inaccurate election statistics, just the way these folks seek to irritate and make Nader supporters seem less patriotic for their votes, and make Nader somehow outside the constitution in denying him his right to seek office shows me the real strength of Ralph Nader.

He speaks truth while the democrats do not.

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By screamingpalm, August 12, 2009 at 2:02 am Link to this comment

Another excellent article from Chris Hedges!

I always find the pragmatic appologists on this board to have seriously flawed, if comical logic. Tragedy would be the best way to describe it really. A Greek tragedy… it would take an apocolypse or the death of humanity itself and they would still claim “it just wasn’t practical”.

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By Trudi, August 12, 2009 at 1:48 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Thanks, diamond. Well said. I value Chris Hedges, Ralph Nader, and you, who necessarily critiques them both. We need all your voices, but your voice must be heard above the rest. I admit that I will need to reread your reminders again.

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By Sepharad, August 11, 2009 at 10:38 pm Link to this comment

StuartH, thanks for the unusual perspective: what is real, what is possible, what we need to do as progressives. I hope Chris Hedges really thinks about your comment.

PS to Msr. Henri—comments dropped from thread by Truthdig? Oh yeah. A lot. Though I haven’t seen any of my own comments vanish, various posters have wondered why theirs were disappeared. I’ve always been curious as to the WHY. To protect our delicate sensibilities? Not likely, considering that many threads contain vitriolic personal attacks. Would be interested in a TD public editor sort of comment on the lines that must not be crossed.

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By FairnessFetish, August 11, 2009 at 8:30 pm Link to this comment

Thank you idarad for your condescending, patronizing remark.  We all admit we are a bunch of idiots whose different opinions cannot possibly be as important as your own.

Please be sure to remind us periodically that you have visited and keep us all in our (respective) places.  And we collectively apologize to you for sharing our far less important issues publicly.

Now ... please continue ...

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By idarad, August 11, 2009 at 8:25 pm Link to this comment

see you are all arguing with yourselves - progress, no not even progressive

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By FairnessFetish, August 11, 2009 at 7:52 pm Link to this comment

Peetawonkus makes the same argument I find myself making constantly, repeatedly.  I get tired of hearing myself make this argument.

I have made this argument within my state GP but there is some resistance to the idea of building up from the ground, even though one of our key values is Grassroots Democracy and Decentralization.  Also, many members of the party WANT to run for higher offices; so should we stop them?

I would like to see a nationwide movement to create new Green locals in towns, cities, and villages.  We should run for schoolboards because they are the easiest of all races to win, and perhaps some of the most powerful positions we can get:  They who control the textbooks can protect us from historical revisionism and scientific misuse.

Meanwhile, I continue to cultivate Green locals in my local region with the hope that they will create the mass, broadbased support Peetawonkus, me, and so many progressives are looking for. for any interested in learning more about my group.

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By KDelphi, August 11, 2009 at 6:51 pm Link to this comment

thanks, Simon in BC—-it must be the SOUTH

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By tom kelso, August 11, 2009 at 6:01 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

A world of heart tug and tear with a god that won’t let it swear only to him, political thought is plundered.
The Nader, Gore, Bush 2000 debate is abated by Joe ‘The Plumber’ Leiberman. If not for the Greens, Joe may very well be residing at 1600 Pennsylvania Av.
Clinton Gore were the 20th centuries largest mass muderers. ‘Iraq Oil for food’, and ushered in the world largest bankruptcies, Gary Winnek, Ken Lay and Bernie Ebbers and the ‘Great State of California’

As Ralph knows it wasn’t the politicians or progressives that brought down Richard Nixon it was the Bureaucrats and we have no one to blame but ourselves.

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By Leefeller, August 11, 2009 at 4:05 pm Link to this comment

Frank, one must take exception with you KFC manager comment, seems to be an analogy in poor taste. You sound as a previous employee of KFC, did you have a problem with management?

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By Frank, August 11, 2009 at 3:03 pm Link to this comment

Oh, the irony. Where have liberals gone with you, Mr. Nader? Nowhere, except down in a couple of presidential elections you probably cost them.

Nader is a zero, and without leftist fan-boys like Chris Hedges, he would get no press at all.

As for Cynthia McKinney…uh, the woman is a moron, plain and simple. Just look at her history of sponsoring goofball legislation (Tupac Shakur Records Act) and making ridiculous statements and wild accusations (she accused the DoD of killing and dumping 5,000 US prisoners in a swamp after Hurricane Katrina). The woman is so irrational and lacking in sound judgement that I don’t consider her competent to manage a KFC restaurant, let alone hold public office.

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By tp, August 11, 2009 at 2:59 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

William W. Wexler,
I like your website. Cool!
I’m a Nader fan and constituent too.
Obama was to obvious on the campaign trail. I would have joined his millions if he hadn’t said that his idea of getting the troops out of Iraq was to redeploy to Afghanistan. He also made it clear that he was going to bail out the crooks on Wall Street. He never came up with a health car plan but just hinted at change. Ralph Nader made it clear where he stood on all these issues and more. Why would I vote for anybody else when I totally agreed with Mr Nader. Obama=Bush. Nader=change.

The problems we have in electing our representatives is not caused by either of the two parties but the monopolizing of both. The problem goes back to the beginning when the founders of our country didn’t trust the average man’s vote. So, they stuck us with the electoral vote.
Another thing, in most countries, this winner take all bullshit don’t exist. After the elections, in some countries, if a politician got enough votes to register the kind of percentages that Ralph Nader got, he would represent that a percentage of the country. Now that seems democratic to me. That would be a real foundation for change. Roughly half the people here in our country is told, after each election, basically, that they have no representative. Socialism? Maybe, a little. But, aren’t we social? What’s wrong with social?
Now, since 1913(the beginning of the reign of the Feds), the people here have been hoodwinked into thinking that we have two parties. We, the people, have had no party for almost a 100 years. Both parties used today are controlled by the same ruling class - descendants of JP Morgan or the like minded aristocrats. We keep bailing them out of their gambling looses.
Knowing this is understanding that change is going to be hard. It is going to take time. Those who have the courage and patients enough to stand against these thugs hired by the elite to disrupt our right to speak out are going to be the new leaders.
Already, we don’t trust our system or any leader that the big money produces. So, how is change going to happen? <<the $64 question

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By Craigster91, August 11, 2009 at 2:58 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It’s a good plan:
As many as possible Greens and true liberals leave the democratic party to join the expanding 3rd Green Party. They’ll then be able to take full credit for the election results and celebrate the inauguration of President Palin.

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By BlueBerry Pick'n, August 11, 2009 at 2:47 pm Link to this comment


I find it interesting that nobody was willing to talk about genuine policy gaps inherent to the Obama & Clinton campaigns… nah, it was all gossip, bitchiness & histrionics… while Obama patently told you he would be stuffing Afghanistan with troops & dragging the troops of other NATO nations deeper into that morass…

there are no mysteries on what AT&T was doing or the applause from the CIA…

AT&T funded the DNC’08 & stuck their bloody logo all over the swag…

AND THE MEDIA was happy to ignore BOTH the RNC & DNC human rights abuses.  The Progressive Media effectively set up a PR GreenZone around their turf.  All the media?  was telling us about how wonderful it all was in Denver.

inside the GreenZone?  happy cute bicycle cops doing helpful things to those bussed in.

OUTSSIDE THE GREENZONE?  millions spend in riotgear, militarized training & SURVEILLANCE.

its no wonder Americans think Nader doesn’t speak in perfect SOUNDBITES that can be chewed up & spit out.

...or he knows how to play the game without being *too far from the centre right & because the InvestorClass Money that Owns the USA realized that they’ve got a hammerlock on Latin America slipping away to Chinese investment & immigration… & that the only thing they have to offer African resource-holders is the smiling happy face that China can’t present: a believable black president.

When people hear these strong statements, the tendency is to dramatize & become hysterical.
...but all ideas require you to spend more than a nanosecond *deciding* what that idea might represent.

Living in the moment in the American “Century of the Self”-marketed Dream is preventing HISTORY & sound analysis from impacting our perceptions of events or decisionmaking.

seriously, folks, learn about & consider thinking bigger than the Borders of the USA & you’ll understand that the privatiziation-fuckery happening to the First Nations peoples elsewhere is happening EVERYWHERE.

its about Money & Power using ‘globalization’, surveillance & debt trying to overcome ethical resource management providing nationalized long-term social infrastructures.


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“We, two, form a Multitude” - Ovid.
Violence can only be concealed by a Lie, & the Lie can only be maintained by Violence.” ... “Any man, who has once proclaimed Violence as his Method, is inevitably forced to take the Lie as his Principle” – Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” - Voltaire.

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By KDelphi, August 11, 2009 at 2:45 pm Link to this comment

You cant be disappointed if youre in denial, I guess…

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By diamond, August 11, 2009 at 2:41 pm Link to this comment

And of course Chris Hedges has someone just waiting in the wings to accept the poisoned chalice Obama now has in his possession and drain it to the dregs. He doesn’t? I fail to see what this constant attack on Obama can achieve, apart from taking away the majority that allows him to do ANYTHING AT ALL or even more horrifically allows the fascists back into government.If Nader had any support from the average citizen it would be a different matter: he doesn’t. He has none. Pining after President Nader is like believing in the tooth fairy. Voting for the greens is a form of political masturbation. In essence: shit or get off the pot. Those who can, do - those who can’t snipe and whine from the sidelines. If you believe in democracy, and you accept that Obama won (unlike George W. Bush who didn’t win) then undermining him is just plain foolish. He’s not a magician and he doesn’t have a magic wand that can teleport troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan and make the financial system perfectly shiny and new like, now. He didn’t vote for the war and he comes to the job with relatively clean hands. He has to deal with the military industrial complex and the sanity- challenged spies and the professional liars in the Republican party and the mainstream media, and the corrupt, bought-off politicians in the pay of the right, the Pentagon and the corporations. Would you like to do it? Or would you prefer that John McCain and Sarah Palin had won? That is the choice- in the real world instead of the small, perfectly formed and delusional Naderworld. That’s what you have to deal with. Obama has been given lemons and you can say ‘Eeewww that’s sour’ or you can help him make lemonade. Clue: whining is not a plan.

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By William W. Wexler, August 11, 2009 at 2:30 pm Link to this comment


Please read.  It opens the mind.

What Nader said was absolutely TRUE… the similarities between Bush and Gore TOWERED over what they were willing to argue over.

Absolutely true.

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By Peetawonkus, August 11, 2009 at 1:57 pm Link to this comment

The problem with Nader and Nader’s Presidential runs is that Nader had little or no base. His campaigns had great ideas and spoke truth to Power, and it’s clear that Nader is a man of personal integrity. But it was a top-down organization and had virtually no organized support on a local, county or state level. The Democrats have that. They’re not as well organized as the Republicans but on Howard Dean’s watch they got better. However, instead of trying to organize and field candidates at a local level, most of Nader’s organization, such as it was, evaporated and went off into Blogland to pen bitter missives. Having said all that, Chris Hedges is absolutely right. We do need a third party (heck, even a viable second party would be refreshing). And he is right that we’re not going to get there without electing a broad spectrum of progressive people into local, county and state positions. We can call them Independents, we can call them Greens, we can call them the New Progressive Party…but mass movements require mass bases. We’re not going to get people elected to Congress, the Senate or the Oval Office on just the tip of the spear. And we’re going to have to be patient, on message and willing to live with set backs. Without that methodically constructed Third Party mass base, all we’re ever going to have is decent, honest candidates with good ideas who are consistently outflanked and outspent by better organized candidates of the Corporate State. The country is full of articulate and educated people who genuinely want change…but are willing to do little more than sign internet petitions. We need boots on the ground.

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By teleokin, August 11, 2009 at 1:48 pm Link to this comment

Anyone who shouts: “There is absolutely no difference between George Bush and Al Gore”..... is as Dumb as a fencepost.
Anyone who defends that statement is also a retard of the year candidate.
WHY do you keep that moron in the news?

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By floresmagon, August 11, 2009 at 1:38 pm Link to this comment

On Election Day, Nader was critized for his comments about Obama. It turns out he was entirely correct- Obama has managed to carry through Bush’s agenda- torture, secrecy, renditon, wars and allowing the health care, auto, banking and insurance industry to run amok in this country without checks and balances. Obama is surounded by people whose first priority is his re-election by any means necessary.

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By BlueBerry Pick'n, August 11, 2009 at 1:19 pm Link to this comment

removing comments?

one can only presume that either TruthDig has internalized censorship ‘standards’, or they’re caving to whingey commenters who would rather not read what others go to the trouble of posting.
its a bit pathetic, really.
if “fuck” counts as “excessive profanity” then we’re all fucking doomed. to the banality of language scrubbed to appease the most fragile, delicate flowers of our membership

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By elisalouisa, August 11, 2009 at 1:02 pm Link to this comment

Greenferret; What I said was: As to the third party system, you can kiss that one good bye. It would never be allowed. One way or the other, it would be stopped because it would be more difficult to control as to outcome and candidates.
The two party system can be controlled to a good extent. By knowing the outcome as to which party will win(2008 would be a Democratic year)  money people and others who have a big stake in the outcome can concentrate getting a candidate that will be partial to their views. They can use money and other means to get a candidate of their choice. A three party system would make knowing the outcome more difficult . Thus much effort is put forth to ensure that a three party system will not come to be. Can you conceive of a Congress that would actually question Paulsen as to those trillions of dollars and demand transparency? Can you conceive of a Congress that would question hiring private enterprise to do the dirty work that they do in Iraq?  Our vote does not have the power it once had. With a three party system it would have more power, thus every effort will be made to prevent a three party system from becoming a reality.

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By Simon in BC, August 11, 2009 at 12:38 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Sad but true: For there to be real change a large percent of ordinary people have to be upset enough to demand it. The only passion we are seeing is from those misguided souls who have been convinced that health reform is bad and that they are better off with the current for-corporate-profit system.

Why are not real progressives also protesting at these meetings that the Democratic government is selling out and that more radical change is needed - a single payer system?

The rantings of the misguided right are the only voice being heard and they will succeed in moving this already watered down health plan even more to favour the corporations.

As a Canadian it just makes me angry to see lies win out yet again in my neighbouring country and dread yet again my country being dragged to the right in response.

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By BlueBerry Pick'n, August 11, 2009 at 12:29 pm Link to this comment

you wish I was “angry”...

look, dude:  I’m not the one complaining that knowledge is an impediment to understanding or “popularity” in a corporatized corrupt culture

if the status quo worked so well for American Stupidity, America’s shallow culture wouldn’t be assfucked & trying to pimp out the Rest of Us, now would you?

I recommend you stop misdirecting & do something more constructive than getting defensive:  Fix your problems, don’t complain that others are working too hard on your behalf.

angry? oh, puhleeze…  if you feel compelled to characterize my opinions, you’d be better off leaving the tried & tired ReichWing knee-jerk ‘you’re ANGRY! ad hominem & going with the more accurate dumbfounded & disgusted

perspective, people.


The Jeff Farias Show: streams FREE & LIVE Mon-Fri, 6-9pmEDT

FREE podcast
“We, two, form a Multitude” ~ Ovid.

Violence can only be concealed by a Lie, & the Lie can only be maintained by Violence.” ... “Any man, who has once proclaimed Violence as his Method, is inevitably forced to take the Lie as his Principle” – Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” - Voltaire.

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By M Henri Day, August 11, 2009 at 12:18 pm Link to this comment

Just for the record : comments are being removed from this thread. Is this Truthdig policy ?...


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By Folktruther, August 11, 2009 at 12:18 pm Link to this comment

There is no way that voting for one or another of the candidates in an election is going to change anything in the US.  the ruling class control the truth system and financing of political parties, and are extremely effective at marketing the truth.  the electoral sysstem is rigged to discourage the poorer half of the voters from voting, and even if they did, their representatives, once they get in office, will sell them out.  Like Obama is selling out the progressive rank and file.

It is necessary to develop a truth system that purveys the political truth from a class perspective opposed to the ruling class perspective. This requires the American population to confront the racism and sexism that has been instilled historically by the ruling class.  This can’t be done during elections, when a candidate must appeal to the preconditioned values that the population already has.

there must be movement preliminary to elections that confront the oppressive values that make the election outcome, whoever wins, serve the interests of the ruling class.  People must stop identifying with their own oppression and the oppression of other people.  And this involves a consciousness raising and consciousness broadening effort that has not yet been addressed.

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By StuartH, August 11, 2009 at 12:14 pm Link to this comment

I have to say, that, having worked real election campaigns in real precincts where real voters live, politics is not what people imagine who get information from other people who have only opinions about it.

Obama takes office after eight years of wreckage being done that mostly was hidden behind layers of ignorance, apathy and determined spin.  That eight years followed a history.  The progressive reform efforts of the sixties, notably civil rights, caused a lot of anger among conservatives.  That caused a tilt towards the right, rather ably exploited by big money special interests at all levels.  They caused a dam to be built in American politics aimed at preventing progressives from succeeding.  On purpose. 

Now the true scale of the wreckage is just becoming visible.  This cannot be turned around in a few months or even a few years.  If someone like Sarah Palin gets elected in 2012, we will go right back to bemoaning ignorance in high places financed by big bucks and supported by really well organized professional manipulators who are as ruthless as any Mafia leg breaker.

The problem is to look to the array of problems that face us all.  How do we understand the opportunity to do something constructive? 

I remember listening to Reagan at an airport stop in Waco, Texas in 1976.  I wrote down some of what he said and looked at it later and realized that he was not making sense, but speaking to inspire the crazy people who cheered him. 

Progressives for many years refused to participate in politics because of a sense of being too good for it.  This caused it to be difficult to get enough people out to vote to create a majority. People who say they see through the media’s lies nevertheless are willing to be divided and conquered by relatively elementary attempts to accomplish that. 

The Clinton Administration was somewhat disappointing to many progressives, so the vote in 2000 was a bit low, and split.  Bush’s people aggressively bullied the system and gained a tiny margin from that which allowed them to take office. 

Then, eight years of really horrible spectacles began.  Now, we have elected an alternative to the Republicans of the past 30 years.  However, six months or so cannot begin to compare with decades of entrenchment. 

Obama is strategically aware of the constraints and is doing about as well as anyone really could under the circumstances.

The problem with the whole agenda of policy reform is that there is a big backlog stacked up and a whole of of organizing around specifics to be done. The progressive community needs a few years to grow into this.  That level of policy enactment can’t happen like turning on a light switch. 

A more pure politics won’t come.  This is the time we live in and we have tools like this to help with figuring out what the future ought to look like.  We should not really be wasting a lot of time forming the circular firing squad.

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By thebeerdoctor, August 11, 2009 at 11:56 am Link to this comment

re: ardee

Google up Australian ballot. That term has become non-existent in the present political lexicography. This of course leads to the false assumption that if you voted for Ralph Nader in 2000, you would have obviously voted for Gore, if that other name was not present. What a lot of hogwash.
A small victory for democracy would be the next time someone asked you who you voted for, you simply reply: that is none of your damn business!

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By thebeerdoctor, August 11, 2009 at 11:49 am Link to this comment

re: BlueBerry Pick’n

Your anger is misdirected. It is the voters that any candidate wants. They are the multitude who eat the sausages, and guess what? there are millions of them that don’t care what is in those “pink missiles” and they will never vote for some wise one lecturing them on how unhealthy their lives are. That is the Demos that Mr. Nader idiotically believes he can lead. It is time for the Enlightened Ones to wake up.

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By ardee, August 11, 2009 at 11:43 am Link to this comment

I would just add that many have been making exactly these points about their choice of how to cast their ballot. I thank Mr. Wexler for adding his voice to the mix. It is sad that so many fail to understand that we have the right to vote for that candidate we feel is the best of the lot, rather than limiting our choices to those from either major party and settling for the same old same old yet again.

The current administration is a perfect example, in my opinion, of why we will get nothing in the way of change by failing to think outside the box of two party politics.

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By William W. Wexler, August 11, 2009 at 11:38 am Link to this comment

SteveL posted….

People who voted for Nader did with the best of intentions.  The result was the worst President in modern history, Bush.  President Gore would not have given us an Iraq war, a huge deficit, and the current recession/depression could have been a lot less severe.


No, no, NO!  The result was of people who voted for Nader was that Nader got their votes.  Please forgive me for a brief, pedantic rant:

How do you or anyone else know how these people who voted for Nader would have voted if they had not voted for Nader?  Perhaps they would have voted for Bush or the Communist or not voted at all?  Why does the Democrat party automatically assume that it “owns” progressive votes when all it does, time after time, election after election, is PANDER to progressives then shit on us and walk away once they got our votes?

I say SLASH AND BURN the Democrat party and the American 2 party system.  If the nation has to suffer another 8 years of Bush or Palin or whoever and they STILL don’t learn how to fix the system, then so be it.

The 2 party system has ruined us.  It’s a Punch and Judy Show and they’re using YOU for the puppets.

I feel much better now.


PS I just watched the Obama “Town Hall” which was truly more like a campaign event than anything else.  Attendees were obviously screened.  At one point the crowd was chanting “Yes we can, yes we can!”  Obama did a nice job of selling his snake oil and assuring everyone that single payer was always the furthest thing from his mind.  Heavens no, that’s for Canadians. 

MSNBC then cut into Claire McCaskill’s event where she was facing a real crowd.  Claire assured us, in fact she said “You can bet on it” that we will never, ever, neverever see single payer health insurance in the Good Old U S of A.  I wished I had been there to yell “FUCK YOU” at the top of my lungs.  Instead I had to throw my TV brick.

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By SteveL, August 11, 2009 at 11:14 am Link to this comment

People who voted for Nader did with the best of intentions.  The result was the worst President in modern history, Bush.  President Gore would not have given us an Iraq war, a huge deficit, and the current recession/depression could have been a lot less severe.

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By truedigger3, August 11, 2009 at 10:42 am Link to this comment


Some people complained that their posts take some time to appear and attributed that to censorship by a moderator.
If you are not registered member, then that is the case. If on the other hand you are registered member, then the delay may be for a couple of reasons, one of them is that the site server is undergoing some periodic reorganization which takes several minutes or during deep in the middle of the night it might takes longer than that.
Another reason for delay, is that there is heavy traffic and the posts que in line to be handled one by one which might take several minutes or little bit longer.

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By Night-Gaunt, August 11, 2009 at 10:39 am Link to this comment

Bogie666 why the other of the two headed monster and vote instead for something else that is human and positive like the Green Party? But then you are here to throw the bombs and excite violence and do your job for that empire that is growing while it is the republic that is shrinking. That is the truth of the matter.

Nader or Kucinich would have been excellent because they would have turned the ship of state 180 degrees hard about to move away from the fascism we are steaming to. The dock isn’t far, just past the whirlpool of total economic collapse.

The Shock Doctrine and Machiavelli calls for the removal of the present system before a new one can be built upon its ruins. They want a shiny stream lined efficient dictatorship without the messy hassles of a democracy or human rights. What is good overseas is now brought home to roost. See how the USA operates in Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan for ideas.

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By Eso, August 11, 2009 at 10:24 am Link to this comment

As TAO Walker says it with the first post here, the answer is a “Living Organic Community”. However, there is one essential ingredient to LOC that makes it so: accepting death as part of the Great Being.

And not only accepting death abstractly, but accepting it as the destiny of consciousness—a conscious death. That kind of consciousness perks you up and even causes you some anxiety or terrorizes you a little. But it check-mates the military death mashine and enables a community that is lasting in the present and has a future.

A lot of pain ahead, but there is hope in that.

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By delfina jones, August 11, 2009 at 10:16 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Thom Hartmann is debunking most of what you said or at least showing where you are not doing your historical research correctly—no context for what is happening.

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By robertbeal, August 11, 2009 at 10:09 am Link to this comment

My comment on “Resist or Become Serfs” applies:

Too late, and it’s serf versus serf.

The unassailability of the top 0.1% is ensured by their most important buffer—the upper middle class—being still enthralled with their own imagined ascent into the ranks of the filthy rich.

One really can’t beat Zinn’s “A People’s History of the United States” for learning the roots and essence of this rogue capitalist political-economy. 

He writes that it was 1877 since there was anything approaching a general strike, in St. Louis, and about that time Marx told Engels that, while the remarkable labor actions during those depressed times would be put down, perhaps it was a start.

I say:  “Put the Wealth to Work” for a change.

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By Howie Bledsoe, August 11, 2009 at 8:51 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I voted Nader on 2000, when Gore won and Bush took office. I have NO regrets at all. You need to vote who you believe in, not the scare tactics of the dem/repub cabal that tell you about throwing your vote away. To throw your vote away is to vote for the afore mentioned criminal cabal.  I have not voted since, nor will I ever vote, unless good folks like Nader or Paul are taken seriously and not side lined and pegged as “fringe lunatics.” Of course Obama is a shill, wake up, folks, he´s part of the corparate agenda, duh!
They have it so wrapped up, the only candidate with a chance in hell of winning needs billions of campains $$$, and the only ones able of coughing up that kind of cash are, you guessed it, the corporations, who obviously wouldn´t give a dime to someone that would stand against them. We are hog-tied. Somehow the Paul-ites were tagged as tin foil hat wingnuts and the Nader fans were tagged as non-votes.  If I had voted Gore in 2000, Bush STILL would´ve taken the throne. At least my integrity is intact.

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By keepyourheaddown, August 11, 2009 at 8:19 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It’s already over for america… there will be no return…
it’s truly sad and pathetic how HEARTLESS it has become…
LIE CHEAT AND STEAL, what did you think was going to happen???
Do you think you will get away with it???

What goes around, comes around…

and no one gets away with anything ever!


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By Southern Gal, August 11, 2009 at 7:56 am Link to this comment

Obama has been in office for 8 months. His administration has taken on a substantial number of issues that are important to all of us.  We wanted to believe that Obama meant what he said about change that matters. Some things said on the campaign trail resonated with us and we saw a man who appeared to know what was wrong and vowed to fix it. This makes his betrayal of progressives more painful to witness and to bear. I think that the progressive media, the progressive members of Congress and the progressive leaders must continue to voice their concerns about what’s wrong with the Obama administration’s positions and policies and their implementation of those policies. This is the time to stand up for what you believe in and not to back down. I understand politics and legislation and the sausage making involved with those, because I worked with local and state governments on environmental and public health issues for many years. Yes it’s hard to get good policies and legislation passed through the meat grinder. For that reason you should start with the very best ideas, policies and programs and understand what your bottom line will be as you go through the process. If what you start with is weak and has no teeth, then your final product will be worthless. I’ve seen no vision and no courage out of this administration and this Democrat party. Of course the Republicans are way out in right field and not to be considered as an option. We need to take the few members of Congress who get it and the courageous independent media who are willing to be our voice and go after what we care about and want for ourselves and our country. We have Bernie Sanders, Russ Feingold, Dennis Kucinich, Ralph Nader,Amy Goodman, Laura Sanders, Bill Moyers,Free Speech Television, TruthDig, Common Dreams, Alternet(my apologies to those I’ve left out). People have grown real movements and made real change with less. We may be able to shift some policies of the Obama adminstration or not, while we build and support through contributions, actions, words and deeds a viable third party. The point is that we have seen where Obama and the Democrats are going and it’s not the path that will take care of our people, our environment, our resources, our common decency, and our rights to basic quality of life for all human beings.

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By BlueBerry Pick'n, August 11, 2009 at 7:47 am Link to this comment

like politics, perhaps you would be happier not knowing what goes into “those little pink missiles”
eat away:  just keep sticking it down your throat & mumbling, “um tasty”
whatever you do, don’t stop to consider that the people who are *telling you* what’s in your sausages & politics are academic eggheads who might know more than you’re willing to admit.
just keep up the profit-friendly petulance.
just keep stuffing those industrial abattoir scrapings down your throat… um, tasty!  gimme MORE!

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By dihey, August 11, 2009 at 7:00 am Link to this comment

Obama’s campaigns for the nomination and against McCain were standard: cater to the base of your party, in this case the broad left. Once you are elected veer to the center or even center-right.

Apparently our voting public is really dumb because it always believes the hot air that candidates of the two major parties throws at them during the campaigning and get angry afterward when their candidate “betrays” them.

Nothing, absolutely nothing will change until the overwhelming majority of voters discover the cheap trick and refuse to vote democratic or republican. I do not blame these two parties because they do just what is needed to stay in power. My contempt is for the voters who allow themselves to be deceived time and time again.

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By William W. Wexler, August 11, 2009 at 6:35 am Link to this comment

Those of you Nader detractors who can read, and I believe some of you may be able to, should visit this site and get busy.

Please notice the dates on these articles.  I like the one dated July 3, 2001, in which he describes the state of the national health care system TODAY, only 8 years earlier.

He is a visionary.

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By William W. Wexler, August 11, 2009 at 5:51 am Link to this comment

Fortunately, I do not have to apologize to Nader, as I saw the light after the Iowa Caucus and switched to his team.  I was part of the effort to get him on the ballot here and we succeeded, as did like-minded people in 44 other states.

The political system is rigged, and the two parties are the riggers.  They take turns fucking up public and foreign policy in ways that line their pockets and screw you into the ground. 

Ralph Nader is a visionary political activist to whom Americans owe a huge debt of gratitude for his actions which directly led to safer products, a cleaner environment, and better access to government documents.  Ironically, while he was working for us, the political system (which is inextricably tangled with the business system) was working hard to shut Nader out of government.  He was costing them too much money by forcing them to stop dumping toxic and dangerous junk on America.

It remains to be seen whether or not this can be fixed.  I agree entirely with Chris Hedges that Obama is not the one to fix it, in fact I saw that 17 months ago when he started dancing back from the brink of Progressivism.  The current battle over health care is a perfect case of exactly how Obama never fails to disappoint.  Instead of taking leadership over this he has taken the side of Big Business and is letting them dictate the bill.  If he would have wanted to lead on this issue, he should have used his bully pulpit to order a thorough study of the Canadian national health care system and used that as a starting point.

Since Obama is not going to give us what we want on any issue, what’s the solution?  Sit tight until next election cycle and hope that somehow 3rd parties will do better?


The answer is to make some noise, make some trouble for him politically. 

For example, I am trying to drum up interest in general strikes for single payer health care.  I think this would be a wonderful way to demonstrate how many of us are fed up with fake promises and photo ops and sloganeering.

Will you please join me in organizing and participating in general strikes?  It will work, if we are persistent enough, they will cave in.  If we wait for the Democrats and their Health Care industry allies to fix health care, we’ll die of old age and disease first.


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By Dave Schwab, August 11, 2009 at 5:41 am Link to this comment

Inherit the Wind: it’s possible that posts are being lost due to some bug in the site. It does seem that comments at the bottom of the thread are disappearing. But to claim that you’re being targeted for censorship, while you clog the thread with comments about how you’re being censored, doesn’t really stand up.

I guess it’s morbid curiosity at this point, but… what reasoning is behind your claim that the Democrats “surrendered to the GOP”, when they are simply enacting the agenda of the corporate lobbyists who provide them with millions in campaign cash?

elisalouisa, you said:

“As to the third party system, you can kiss that one good bye. It would never be allowed. One way or the other, it would be stopped because it would be more difficult to control as to outcome and candidates. “

How can you say “it would never be allowed” while arguing at the same time that third parties are “more difficult to control”? It’s absolutely true that the establishment parties, especially the Democrats, have been working overtime to destroy any attempt to organize outside the establishment. In fact, Democratic staffers in PA were literally paid overtime (that’s your tax money at work, PA) for removing Ralph Nader and Green Party Senate candidate Carl Romanelli from the ballot.

As much as the establishment wants to kill the Green Party, tho, they don’t control it. That’s a major reason why, as Hedges points out, every major step forward in American history came from movements that organized outside the existing political establishment.

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By thebeerdoctor, August 11, 2009 at 5:35 am Link to this comment

Anyone familiar with Ralph Nader is aware of his campaign against hot dogs; what he calls “those little pink missiles”. Last year, 730 million packages of hot dogs were sold, which amounts to over a $billion and half in sales, and this does not include hot dogs bought at Walmart. I ask you: when will America ever elect a president who despises the hot dog? Sure the holier than Nader crowd will point out that hot dogs are bad, for all kinds of reasons. But in the process of doing that they also insult the vast constituency who eats them regularly at ball games and just about everywhere else.
If you want people to vote for your candidate, he or she has to be able to appear to relate to the voters. Symbolism can make a big difference. If you are going to get into politics, well damn it, GET INTO POLITICS, and never be so bloody egotistical as to think that because you offer more intelligent solutions to problems, anyone is going to listen. Remember that Demos refers to rule by mob. All the elitist posturing about being smarter, wiser, etc., means nothing to the vast, frightened, misinformed population. Is this not one of the great problems: while the politicos throughout the spectrum manipulate the people that they supposedly care about, those same unconnected people bear the brunt of the continuous venal stupidity that the elected ones polices create.

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By elisalouisa, August 11, 2009 at 5:13 am Link to this comment

ITW: Again, I agree with most of what you say especially about Pelosi and Reid. I have followed Pelosi from the beginning of her career and she has turned out to be a big disappointment. What you must remember is that she would never have gotten to where she is if she had not been a politician in every sense. As to the third party system, you can kiss that one good bye. It would never be allowed. One way or the other, it would be stopped because it would be more difficult to control as to outcome and candidates. There is a lot of money floating around Washington and Wall Street. There is no accounting for the money thrown at Wall Street. This money and people in high places can control much of what is going on. That is one of the reasons marches have stopped and there are no more demonstrations. Within our hearts we the people know that our voice is not what it once was.

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By MeHere, August 11, 2009 at 4:55 am Link to this comment

Andrea Kehoe

Thanks for sharing your thoughts about voting for Obama.  You have accomplished a great deal by becoming aware of what’s going on.
Just beware that, in the future, you will again come across the popular liberal notion that voting Democratic is the only, the best , and the most urgent thing to do. It’s also good to keep in mind that the most important step in moving towards meaningful change may not necessarily involve winning a presidential election.  The main thing is to engage in a process that could ultimately seriously challenge the two parties. And any process takes time.

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By Inherit The Wind, August 11, 2009 at 4:45 am Link to this comment

Whoa! Now Ardee’s most recent comment has been deleted!

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By Inherit The Wind, August 11, 2009 at 4:12 am Link to this comment

Sorry, RD:

But I won’t argue where the umpires only call strikes against one side.

Go for it!

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By Inherit The Wind, August 11, 2009 at 4:06 am Link to this comment

greenferret, August 11 at 7:55 am #

“I’ve been censored—didn’t you read that? I won’t respond to the topic of this thread. “

You haven’t been censored. Comments are disappearing from the bottom of the thread as new ones are added.

No, they only disappear when they are removed.  Many threads are hundreds or even thousands of posts long. Got to Page 2 of the “Reports” and you’ll find several there longer than this thread.  This one hasn’t even reached 200 posts.

I’ve been around here at lot longer than you—long enough to know when I’ve been censored….and that this series of posts will probably soon be removed.

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By ardee, August 11, 2009 at 4:02 am Link to this comment

“Nader has always been a fanatic.  What’s news about that?”

Saying it doesnt make it so. As ITW has departed the building I suppose my question will go unanswered, but I just gotta ask anyway; What is it , in the mind of ITW, that makes Nader a fanatic?

Is it that he dared to oppose both the republican and democratic candidates for the office? Or just dared to run against ITW’s favorite?

Is it that Nader’s platform makes Gore’s look childish and unprofessional by comparison?

Is it because he “dared” to actually exercize his constitutional right to run for that office? Some nerve that!

Or is it that ITW thinks Nader an egomaniac without explaining why he believes that?

I think most here are familiar with the definition of insanity that states it is doing the same thing again and again expecting a different result. Perhaps my worthy adversary in this debate about third party and independent politics might consider that voting, again and again, for the democrats who betray you every time, fits that definition.

I do not believe ITW to be insane, nor do I think Nader either egomaniacal or fanatical. I try to offer proof thereof, unlike my absent friend. What hope for our republic when those who stand up honestly and proudly for our nation are dismissed so easily?

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By tp, August 11, 2009 at 4:01 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

By teadrinker, August 10 at 7:19 am #

“As a member, I’ve yet to see my comment (immediately) posted on a topic. I wonder what the trouble could be?”

At least you get in there as a member. Being a member didn’t change the long posting delay for me, so I gave up signing in. Ardee could be right about your having to be patient which isn’t my long suit. 
At any rate your point is valid about having to worry about your threatening the source of power if you become a threat to them. But Ralph Nador has a power structure of his own. He’s been around and has allies in CIA, FBI ETC. But, he is still just a pawn used by the power. This very subject about whether he is ideologically and politically correct or whether he caused the dems to loose or not was part of their strategy. I heard that the republicans were actually campaigning for him through phone calls.
Anyway, he got my vote. He will every time. I knew he would not win. I also knew that winning was a matter of throwing enough money in the game. It is simple arithmetic in the use of advertising.
The funny thing about those who comment on this article is that they all are disappointed with the system. Oh, InheritTheWind is getting a job so he seems satisfied now. And thebeerdoctor thinks trying to get the truth out and making an effort to change things is like pissing in the wind. But almost everybody else would like change, eventhough thebeerdoctor’s made very damning comments that are similar to Ralph’s especially concerning the Banksters. But none seem to be organizing any efforts of their own as Ralph has. We need a movement! We need a lot more people like Ralph, not just two of the same kind working for the elite.
It is easy to sit around and comment but we need people in the streets, if nothing else just be another head in the crowd supporting change. That is the point Ralph was making about what we need to be doing instead of feeding on the daily TV propaganda. 
I does take courage.
Change may become messy but change has got to happen.
Any ideas out there about making a difference other than criticizing Ralph who is at least trying?

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By Dave Schwab, August 11, 2009 at 3:55 am Link to this comment

“I’ve been censored—didn’t you read that? I won’t respond to the topic of this thread. “

You haven’t been censored. Comments are disappearing from the bottom of the thread as new ones are added.

Why do you claim that the Democrats “surrendered to the GOP” when they are simply enacting the agenda of the corporate lobbyists who provide them with millions in campaign cash?

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By Inherit The Wind, August 11, 2009 at 3:48 am Link to this comment

I’ve been censored—didn’t you read that? I won’t respond to the topic of this thread.

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By Dave Schwab, August 11, 2009 at 3:41 am Link to this comment

Inherit the wind - I’ll ask again: why do you claim that the Democrats “surrendered to the GOP” when they are simply enacting the agenda of the corporate lobbyists who provide them with millions in campaign cash?

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By Inherit The Wind, August 11, 2009 at 3:08 am Link to this comment

ardee, August 11 at 6:15 am #

“Ralph is as dedicated a fanatic as the right wing nuts, just to a different cause. “

If ITW can read the platform and campaign speeches of Ralph Nader and believe him a fanatic then he should really look in a mirror to find the real fanaticism.

Continuing to support the two party system, especially in the face of the betrayal of Barack Obama and the majority Democratic Party, is certainly fanatical and flies in the face of the reality of their betrayal.

As this thread has gone beyond any reasonable length and I can no longer peruse it or keep track of responses I will make this my last effort here. I’ve no doubt, however, that , as the term of our President continues we will have ample opportunity to rue the lack of alternatives.

Nader has always been a fanatic.  What’s news about that?

But I won’t and can’t participate in this thread anymore.  Truthdig has deleted all my posts prior to August 10, particularly the one where I laid out how the author and Nader are blaming Obama when they should be blaming Reid, Pelosi and the other Congressional Democrats for surrendering to the GOP upon winning dominant majorities in both Houses.

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By ardee, August 11, 2009 at 2:15 am Link to this comment

“Ralph is as dedicated a fanatic as the right wing nuts, just to a different cause. “

If ITW can read the platform and campaign speeches of Ralph Nader and believe him a fanatic then he should really look in a mirror to find the real fanaticism.

Continuing to support the two party system, especially in the face of the betrayal of Barack Obama and the majority Democratic Party, is certainly fanatical and flies in the face of the reality of their betrayal.

As this thread has gone beyond any reasonable length and I can no longer peruse it or keep track of responses I will make this my last effort here. I’ve no doubt, however, that , as the term of our President continues we will have ample opportunity to rue the lack of alternatives.

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By Dave Schwab, August 11, 2009 at 1:47 am Link to this comment

This is the thesis of the article:

“Our last hope is to step outside of the two-party system and build movements that defy the Democrats and the Republicans.”

Chris Hedges is a deep thinker, but unlike many of the commenters here, he hasn’t lost hope. He has only lost hope in the Democrats and Republicans - that’s a big difference. Maybe the corporate media forgot to tell you, but there are other political parties out there.

Some here seem to think there’s no hope because someone like Nader can’t be elected president today. Well, it’s not that easy - you can’t just elect a president out of nowhere and expect everything to suddenly change. The Green Party is organizing from the grassroots up, as all true progressive movements have in American history.

Nonviolence, social justice, grassroots democracy, sustainability - are these your values? Do you want to vote for candidates who refuse corporate money? Then get active with the Green Party today! (

Speaking of which, I hope Hedges will interview Cynthia McKinney. She has some interesting things to say about sitting in an Israeli prison on the 4th of July for the crime of trying to bring humanitarian aid to Gaza.

Regarding Nader:

You either support the right of citizens to run for office - aka democracy - or you don’t. You either support the right of your fellow citizens to decide who they will vote for - aka democracy - or you don’t.

Why didn’t the Democrats investigate the actions of the Florida GOP, which stripped tens of thousands of African-American citizens of their right to vote before the 2000 election? (See the movie American Blackout:

If Democrats truly believe that Nader cost them the election, why didn’t they push for instant-runoff voting, an improved voting system that eliminates any so-called spoiler problem? (see

Why the relentless, baseless psychologizing instead of critical thinking? Why is Nader “egotistical” when he runs for office and tries to inject real issues in the debate - including the massive issue of our broken electoral system? Why are the Democrats “gutless” or “spineless” when they are clearly enacting the agenda of the corporate lobbyists who provide them with millions in campaign cash?

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By Marc Schlee, August 11, 2009 at 12:14 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Nader doesn’t seem to know his ass from his elbow, either.



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By Andrea Kehoe, August 10, 2009 at 10:23 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I am so very very sorry I voted for Obama, and got almost everyone in my family to do the same. 

David Axelrod marketed Obama into a celebrity, gave him all the right lines, and millions of us fell for it.  Oprah standing on stage asking “IS HE THE ONE?”

I think about the Obama campaign and feel sick to my stomach.  Boy were we lied to - repeatedly.  We were bamboozled.

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By Kelly, August 10, 2009 at 10:11 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I really, really, really had my hopes up for Obama. I still harbor some but it’s fading quickly.  I do recall some Harvard professor or colleague stating that Obama’s more conservative than we think.


Looks like it’s time to turn off the TV and get radical. What a drag.

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By Chris, August 10, 2009 at 8:55 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Only six months into the Presidency and Obama hasn’t changed the world! Shame Obama! Shame!

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By John Friend, August 10, 2009 at 8:35 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Kay Johnson:

I cannot agree with you more!!!  During the election, I was still in pursuing my undergraduate and every time Nader was brought up, usually by me, everyone blamed him for 2000.  A key fact they left out: Gore lost his home state of Tennessee!!!  Not to mention all the other dents in their “Nader cost us the election” argument.  Obama lost my vote with his FISA vote, escalation of war in Afghanistan, and his corporate backers which are so plainly obvious today.  Great article Chris Hedges!

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By herewegoagain, August 10, 2009 at 8:34 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Reading this article and some of the despondent comments that follow, I can see that if Obama really does turn out to be a neocon trojan horse - and all signs point to this being so - a sizable number of liberals and progressives are going to be completely demoralized for years and years to come.

Please folks - buck up. Don’t give one man, no matter his title, that kind of power. There’s simply too much at stake, too much good to be accomplished, that CAN be accomplished, to give up just because we’ve been screwed over by yet another corporatist.

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By G.Anderson, August 10, 2009 at 8:21 pm Link to this comment

At this point the only thing that has any chance of saving us is a collapse, because change is impossible at this point.

We are in for some very rough times ahead, and it will be a miracle if the USA, stays together.

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By Samson, August 10, 2009 at 8:13 pm Link to this comment

To JC Cunningham.

In a winner-take-all political system like in the US, its important that the opposition unify.

By my count, we ran at least 5 separate relatively major anti-war campaigns for President last time.  Plus undoubtably others.

Paul—Republican primaries
Kucinich—Democrat primaries
Barr—Libertarian general election
McKinney—Green general election
Nader—Independent general election.

This is insane.  None of these campaigns had the resources to be effective.  Yet, we divided our efforts, and our votes, five ways in an election system that only recognizes the winner.

We absolutely positively need a unified opposition.  Getting the parties on the right to unify is one step.  Getting the parties on the left to unify is another.  But what we really need to do is to unify all of this into one big combined opposition.

People focus on what the various splinter parties disagree on.  What we need to do is to focus on what we agree on.

—We agree that the wars must end.
—We agree that it is illegal to spy on the American people.
—We agree that we shouldn’t run secret prisons and that we should not torture.
—We agree that our elections are flooded with big money, and that this leads to a government that is controlled by money.  We agree that what American instead should be is a government of the people, by the people and for the people.

There’s more than that we agree on if we take the time to stop and focus on our agreements.  There is certainly enough agreement to provide an agenda for a first term of office for such a opposition party should we win.

Our enemies are strong and powerful.  They have millions of dollars to spend in defeating us, and they have control of the most advanced propaganda machine in history.  In trying to defeat such powerful enemies and regain control of our country, we can not afford to be divided.

Of course, one thing the powerful will do is to spend some of those millions in trying to stir up divisions amongst us.  We must ignore those provocateurs.  We must unite.

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By Samson, August 10, 2009 at 8:04 pm Link to this comment

Peace ... or no second term!

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By Samson, August 10, 2009 at 8:02 pm Link to this comment

I’m proud to say I voted for Cynthia McKinney for President.  And for the Greens in every other race they ran a candidate.

Like the bumper sticker says .... Don’t Blame Me, I voted McKinney!

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By JC Cunningham, August 10, 2009 at 7:45 pm Link to this comment

America’s major parties are big because they are inclusive, accepting members with widely ranging beliefs, while our “third” parties want their members to adopt the entire platform without disagreement.

What we need is a new, inclusive Liberty Party.  The Democrats and Republicans are the parties of big government.  The Liberty Party would be a merger of all those wanting dramatically smaller government and dramatically increased personal freedom. 

A perfect starting place would be a merger of the Libertarian Party, Constitution Party, and the Ron Paul Republicans.  Yes, there are substantial points of disagreement among these groups, but not nearly so great as their areas of agreement.  For example, they would all agree that we should bring home the troops, end the income tax, rollback the welfare state, and repeal the “Patriot” Act.  These are HUGE areas of agreement!

If it began as a merger of those three existing groups, from Day One it would have the size and clout to be seen not as “a”, but as “the”, third party in America.  It would instantly be big news.

More detail at

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By tom kelso, August 10, 2009 at 7:10 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The world has very little liking for the habitual truth teller. The men and women the American people admire the most extravagantly are the most daring liars.
A land that advertises itself as free and shackles it’s inhabitants with debt, and work that people need and few want, a debt market and media so craven, blindly visual and mission acomplished, it can mire the poor in war and make the likes of Michael Jackson and Billy Mays pitch products from the grave, should be feared.

If those of us think todays free market and media is doomed we might have to wait awhile. If America has produced anything, it’s foremost product is a world of lies and liars and it’s all been free?

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By samosamo, August 10, 2009 at 6:55 pm Link to this comment

By Ouroborus, August 10 at 9:17 pm #

By thebeerdoctor, August 10 at 3:08 pm
““It’s unfortunate you miss Nader’s point regarding television and electronic gadgets; generations lost in a virtual world, disconnected from the events going on around them. The result is an easily led, misinformed, uneducated, citizenry fooled into voting against their own best interests. I’m sure you have your reasons for hating Nader, but don’t blame him for our present state of decay.”“

There was an article a week or so ago, not sure where but may have been msnbc, about a vitamin D deficiency in kids beginning to show up in the populaion and I think that a very good indication of some of the effects of the modern wonder of those electronic gadgets that keep the kids inside so that will become a soon to be major medical health problem.

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By cognitis1, August 10, 2009 at 6:39 pm Link to this comment

Platforms of ideas are inane without support of money or rights, and money and rights pursue force and interest; US’ rich and influential cohere by the discipline of common interest and use their force to either subjoin the poor and impotent or disperse them. See how instruments of the rich and influential like Beck and Terry provide opinions acts locations for their ignorant illiterate beastly followers, followers who have no capacity for independent cogitation or action like slaves or other domesticated beasts; hear these beasts repeat memorized slogans provided for them by their masters and remember Shakespeare: “...the empty vessel makes the greatest sound…” Less than 25% of Athenians voted in that democracy, so expect not the majority of Americans to appreciate or exercise rights as citizens. Throughout history most of any populace were slaves, since at any time most would rather follow orders than cogitate independently. Slavery liberates beasts from cogitation and for eating sex violence and other other beastly stimulations. Only rational literate Men participate in democracy, and most Men aren’t rational or literate.

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By pamrider, August 10, 2009 at 6:20 pm Link to this comment

I’ve registered Green for all but primaries (to be counted). Mostly I have voted as a Democrat. I am now more and more feeling I need to vote my real beliefs. Voting for Democrats feels like really throwing my vote away.

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By BruSays, August 10, 2009 at 5:31 pm Link to this comment

I’m sure it’s been said somewhere in the 100-plus entries below, but Chris Hedges is right:

If a few million of us had had the temerity to stand behind our ideals rather than our illusions and the empty slogans peddled by the Obama campaign, we would have a platform.” 

Of course, we’d also now have John McCain as President and Sarah Palin as Vice President.

And maybe that horror would actually be a good thing. It’s obvious that things have to get far worse before we wake up to these dysfunctional parties. Whether Obama pushed hard enough or Reid or Pelosi did this or that is academic. The Progressive agenda will not carry as long as so many people swallow the crap thrown at them from the right. When they no longer accept it or believe it, we’ll be in the streets, Bush and Cheney will be in the Bastille and heads will be falling. Maybe then “change” may have a chance.

Sad, but it seems that’s where we’re headed…down the road to a chaos that may finally end the complacency.

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By LostHills, August 10, 2009 at 5:20 pm Link to this comment

I voted for Gore, I voted for Kerry, and I voted for Obama. I’m a lifelong Democratic voter because I’m a liberal, and I hate the Republicans and everything they stand for. But the Democratic party has become less liberal each and every year since LBJ. Hey, I’ve never expected them to be as liberal as me. But I have expected them to be a viable counterweight to the Republicans. Those expectations have been dashed repeatedly since 2006, pummelled, thrashed, stomped into the mud, shredded, cut to ribbons, pissed on and laughed at by Reid , Pelosi and the Obama administration. Do they expect to hold on to power for very long without liberal support? I don’t see how they can, but we’ll find out, because they have lost mine and everyone else who gives a damn. Every democracy has a liberal party and a conservative party. They have to compete for votes, and the voters keep either party from running amock. But our country doesn’t have a liberal party anymore, and we are being dragged inexorably in the direction of fascism, and I don’t think that’s too strong a word.

We do need a third party in this country, and a viable third party candidate that people can trust to work for their interests and to throw the money changers out of the temple. Jesus is not a politician, Willy Nelson is indentured to the IRS and FDR is dead. Ralph is too old, but he does tell the truth. And he tried to warn us…..

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By Ouroborus, August 10, 2009 at 5:17 pm Link to this comment

By thebeerdoctor, August 10 at 3:08 pm #

It’s unfortunate you miss Nader’s point regarding television and electronic gadgets; generations lost in a virtual world, disconnected from the events going on around them. The result is an easily led, misinformed, uneducated, citizenry fooled into voting against their own best interests. I’m sure you have your reasons for hating Nader, but don’t blame him for our present state of decay.

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By Orley Allen, August 10, 2009 at 5:14 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ralph Nader has taken anti-corporate pushback as far as anyone could in a time of corporate domination of government and the press. His was a valiant and largely wasted effort. This is not the America of the Constitution and the dazzling Enlightment vision of its creators. We are not being governed, we are being controlled. The solution is not political.

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By ted tun, August 10, 2009 at 5:13 pm Link to this comment

Its delusional to think that Ralph Nader would be able to accomplish anything. I doubt he would be able to carry a majority of democrats and while I admire Nader he has a ridiculous ego. I am annoyed at Obamas cautious approach and wish he did not placate the military that much, I do think he wants to make sure he doesn’t get outflanked. I hope that Obama will slowly move to his base he needs to if he wants to win re election,

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By BlueBerry Pick'n, August 10, 2009 at 5:02 pm Link to this comment

I don’t think Columbians or Saipan corporate slaves really care if INDIVIDUALS in a *representative government* would rather not be raping or disappearing their neighbours.

I really don’t think that the average Afghan citizen gives a ratshit if individual Americans on board with running Predator drones or torturing their relatives… its a binary proposition:

either a nation is committing warcrimes or its not.
close only counts in horseshoes & handgrenades
its not a generalization, its a fact.

on the other hand, I hear LOTS of bitching & whinging about how crazy American troops are running around ‘endangering American troops’ with Christian Crusader or White Supremacist activities.  I hear a LOT overseas about how freaked out other NATO troops are at witnessing US troops engaging in ‘triggerhappy misbehaviours & bigoted attitudes

I think Afghans might be concerned & easily confused at the obvious outpouring of love within the domestic US population while they find limbs strewn about neighbourhoods.

Gee, you think it might be the sort of behaviours that endanger Afghans as well as OTHER NATO TROOPS?
nah, as long as the nations’ constituents aren’t ‘tarred with the same brush’, right?

gee, offer the first opportunity for a crowd chanting ‘We’re NUMBER ONE!!” & the average American is ON THE FUCKING BUS.
Don’t believe me? when The Daily Show or Colbert has a chanting moment… its “Amerika Uber Alles!” & they can barely keep the audience settled down to restart the show!
try being ‘Un-American’ & watching that show… its bonechilling to witness the relish with which Americans get excited about their abuse-fueled Empire.
...give an American an unpleasant TRUTH about the nation’s activities & the first thing we see is a massive backpedal & declarations of unfair treatment
...give an American any positive opportunity to jump up & down in a nationalistic fervor… “We’re NUMBER ONE!”

either you’re in, or you ain’t.

I might point out:  the SAME Predator drones being used to kill wantonly in Af’Pak… are being used on the CANADIAN BORDER by US services.

sing me another tune about how America is great… until it ain’t…

& the UnAmerican is just engaging in bad behaviour for not jumping on the bus, too

Try crossing the Border into the US when you’re NOT AN AMERICAN:  they treat us like SHIT.
I’ve seen Muslim Canadians *in near tears* -in rigid terror @ Toronto’s Pearson airport- waiting to pass US Customs.

I guess we’re just too white to invade or you’d see it for its full splendour in the US media, right?

I’m really sorry I don’t share your TOLERANCE level for warcrimes, corporate corruption & a pay-to-play use of military.

But then, I live in a country that experiences *massive funding influx* from the US to **dismantle our social services** to make room for American corporate ‘service providers’ like health insurance.  Do I like my nation’s environment or my body being treated like cod, wheat or softwood?

would you?
nah, its just BAD TASTE to point out the obvious abuses upon other cultures & nations…
we should be grateful that, as Ann Coulter pointed out, America doesn’t roll over in bed one night & crush them

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By white noise, August 10, 2009 at 5:01 pm Link to this comment

If only we could cooperate & participate more like… the north Koreans ? wink

Spot on Chris !

Synchronicity being what it is, just finished this little ditty wink


Working from the understanding that everything goes to the… HIGHEST BIDDER

I see two narratives wink

1 ) “Americans do not have the intellectual capacity to revolt. All you need to keep them pacified is to give them a dozen donuts & a gun !” - Max Keiser

2 )“It’s here that the American dream decided it liked the taste of the vomit it was chocking on. Just rolled over on its back and screamed for more drugs. it didn’t die.“ - Warren Ellis

Humor is the politeness of despair said the optimist wink

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By Inherit The Wind, August 10, 2009 at 4:50 pm Link to this comment

SteveL, August 10 at 8:12 pm #

When Harry Reid got his 60-seat majority he quickly declared defeat.  That is where the main problem is.  Not with Obama or the House of Representatives.  Reid could play hardball with the reluctant Senators but has said from the start he would not.

Glib, but true!

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