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Peace Is in the Eye of the Beholder

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Posted on Jan 19, 2009
AP photo / Hatem Moussa

Palestinian women sit in the rubble of buildings in the eastern area of Jebaliya after Israeli troops withdrew from the northern Gaza Strip.

By Chris Hedges

(Page 2)

The Palestinian reaction to Israeli occupation should be familiar to Israelis. Tzipi Livni, Israel’s foreign minister, says that the Israeli government will have no dealings with Hamas terrorists. But Tzipi Livni’s father was Eitan Livni, the chief operations officer of the terrorist Irgun Zvai Leumi, which fought against the British occupation of Palestine. The underground Jewish group set off a massive bomb in the King David hotel in Jerusalem, a blast in which 91 victims were killed, including four Jews. These Jewish terrorists hanged two British sergeants and booby-trapped their corpses. Irgun, together with the terrorist Stern gang, massacred 254 Palestinians in 1948 in the village of Deir Yassin. Tell me the moral difference between Irgun Zvai Leumi, the Stern gang and Hamas. I fail to see one.

Israel hopes to cut a deal with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah. But the Israeli government squandered the chance to make a deal with Fatah. Israel once could have negotiated with the Fatah leader, Yasser Arafat, but it steadfastly refused. Arafat’s life ended with him surrounded by Israeli troops and unable to leave his bunker in Ramallah. Hamas, because of Fatah’s corruption and incompetence, won the Palestinian election in 2006. And all the bombing and shelling will not make Hamas, or some even more radical version, go away. Israeli will have to negotiate with Hamas or with no one.

War always opens a Pandora’s box of new problems, new disasters, increased suffering and dilemmas. It becomes its own culture. It radically alters reality through massive acts of industrial slaughter. Saddam Hussein was a tyrant. Hamas is a distasteful and morally bankrupt organization. But the utopian project to bend Gaza, Iraq and Afghanistan by force to our will has created a hell on earth for Iraqis, Afghans and Palestinians and only enflamed these conflicts. The killings carried out by the United States and Israel dwarf the massacres carried out by Saddam Hussein, including his genocidal campaigns against the Kurds and the Shiites. We have become terribly efficient killers and the most potent recruiters for the region’s jihadists. 

The echoes of Israel’s ruthless slaughter in Gaza, and our slaughters in Iraq and Afghanistan, will reverberate in the months and years ahead in expanded acts of terrorism and a new implacable militancy by the Palestinians and the Muslim world. There is a cause and effect. And those who tell the grieving families in Gaza or Iraq or Afghanistan to use moral suasion and nonviolence to counter tank blasts and airstrikes in crowded neighborhoods are as self-deluded as pro-war Israeli and American politicians who think they can blast their way to a solution. 

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The military occupation of Gaza, Iraq and Afghanistan has failed. It has furthered the spread of failed states. It has increased authoritarianism, savage violence, instability and anarchy. It has swelled the ranks of our real enemies—the Islamic terrorists—and opened up voids of lawlessness where they can operate and plot against us. It has nearly scuttled the art of diplomacy. It has left us, like Israel, an outlaw state creating more outlaw states. 

The rise of militarism is a familiar path taken by collapsing states. Militarism arrests social decay. It shoves this decay underground where it cannot be challenged by critics and social movements. Those who launch crusades hold out beautiful fantasies of freedom, liberation and peace. But the impossibility of these utopian dreams always turns these projects for human advancement into squalid justifications for atrocity. Realism, as John N. Gray writes, “requires a discipline of thought that may be too austere for a culture that prizes psychological comfort above anything else, and it is a reasonable question whether western liberal societies are capable of the moral effort that is involved in setting aside hopes of world-transformation.” 

It is realism, an unflinching acceptance of our stark and severe limitations and an end to self-delusional utopian visions—those that embrace force and those that do not—that we must accept if we are to survive as a nation and finally as a species. We have to deal with the world as it is, not as we would like it to be. We have to stand in the shoes of those we brand as the enemy. We have to see ourselves as others see us. Israel must negotiate with Hamas and end its occupation of Gaza and the West Bank to secure a lasting peace. We must withdraw our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan and negotiate with those arrayed against us to find stability. Until this happens, we all remain trapped on a merry-go-round of death.   


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By Oceana, January 25, 2009 at 10:38 pm Link to this comment

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v31/n02/sieg01_.html

London Review of Books
Israel’s Lies
Henry Siegman

“Western governments and most of the Western media have accepted a number of Israeli claims justifying the military assault on Gaza: that Hamas consistently violated the six-month truce that Israel observed and then refused to extend it; that Israel therefore had no choice but to destroy Hamas’s capacity to launch missiles into Israeli towns; that Hamas is a terrorist organisation, part of a global jihadi network; and that Israel has acted not only in its own defence but on behalf of an international struggle by Western democracies against this network.

I am not aware of a single major American newspaper, radio station or TV channel whose coverage of the assault on Gaza questions this version of events. Criticism of Israel’s actions, if any (and there has been none from the Bush administration), has focused instead on whether the IDF’s carnage is proportional to the threat it sought to counter, and whether it is taking adequate measures to prevent civilian casualties.

Middle East peacemaking has been smothered in deceptive euphemisms, so let me state bluntly that each of these claims is a lie.”

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/album.php?aid=846 01&id=645539679&ref=nf

Websites:
If Americans Knew
My Israel Question
Palestine Remembered

Shame on Israel, the U.S.A, England and France!  The truth is known and history is recorded.  Try as you might to blame the victim of the crimes of the oppressor(s), you will not succeed!  It has already failed.

President Obama and State Secretary Hilary Clinton will go down in history as war criminals as well, unless they have the courage to not bow to AIPAC and stand up and speak out against the injustices and inhumane treatment committed against the Palestinians.

May the Palestinian people, the indigenous people of this land, forever stand as a testament for all the indigenous people who were also victims of genocide and illegal occupations by a foreign land.

Prior to the Zionist Industrialists Muslims, Jews, Christians all lived peaceably together.  Why did this change?  The “why” question is often removed in our modern day recording of history.  One must ask “Why?” in order to understand.

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By Natascha, January 25, 2009 at 3:42 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

One of the bloggers responding to this article wrote that the Irgun (or another Israeli terrorist organization) aided the Nazis.  This is an amazing statement.  Whoever wrote that, would you please provide documentation for this claim?  Thank you.

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By Nozferatu, January 24, 2009 at 11:45 am Link to this comment

Fink is great…he doesn’t hide behind the “holocaust” like the rest of them do…particularly some around here.

It takes alot to be a good decent human being.  If more jews were like Mr. Finkelstein, Israel would actually be a country we could look up to.  Instead, we now see a bunch of clowns running the show and an even bigger bunch of sideline racists supporting it.

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By Shingo, January 23, 2009 at 10:06 pm Link to this comment

Gotta love Fink,

He really does get under the skin of the Israeli amen corner.  They have even gone so far as to accuse him of being an anti Semite - aven though he is Jewish and a Holocaust denier, even though he’s the son of Holocasut victims.  It just goes to show the lengths that the liars will go to drown out debate and dissent.

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By Robert, January 23, 2009 at 5:09 pm Link to this comment

Norman Finkelstein on the atrocities Israel commited in Gaza

01.21.2009 | YouTube.com
By RussiaToday

Controversial American Jewish scholar and specialist on the Middle East, Norman Finkelstein, says Israel committed massive atrocities in Gaza during the three-week war against Hamas militants.


http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=2570

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By Robert, January 22, 2009 at 11:59 pm Link to this comment

Israel accused of executing parents in front of children in Gaza

01.21.2009 | The Telegraph
By Murray Wardrop

“Israel has refuted allegations of war atrocities in Gaza after Palestinian children described how their parents had been “executed” by Israeli troops.

One nine-year-old boy said his father had been shot dead in front of him despite surrendering to Israeli soldiers with his hands in the air.

Another youngster described witnessing the deaths of his mother, three brothers and uncle after the house they were in was shelled.

He said his mother and one of his siblings had been killed instantly, while the others bled to death over a period of days.

A psychiatrist treating children in the village of Zeitoun on the outskirts of Gaza City, where the alleged incidents took place, described the deaths as a “massacre”.

Rawya Borno, a Jordanian doctor, said civilians, including children, were rounded up and killed by Israeli troops.

Israel has denied the claims, dismissing them as Hamas propaganda, but said that an investigation is being conducted into soldiers’ conduct in the area.

In interviews with ITV News, Palestinians claimed that Israeli forces knowingly killed civilians in Zeitoun on the morning of Jan 14.

Abdullah Samouni, nine, described the moment his father was allegedly “executed” by Israeli soldiers.

Holding his arms in the air, he said: “He was surrendering like this. My father came out and they shot him right away.”

A boy named Ahmed said he was trapped for days in the wreckage of the shelled Samouni family’s house.

He said: “My mother was dead beside me, she was clutching my brother Nasser and they were dead. My brother Itzaq was bleeding for two days and then he died. My brother Izmael bled to death in one day. My uncle Talal was bleeding for two hours and he died. God bless them.”

Dr Borno said: “It’s a massacre. They collected them from their houses. They knew that they were civilians. They were children.”

When asked if Hamas had been in Zeitoun, Dr Borno replied: “Suppose that there is one of the fighters around, what is it to do with all these? Is the price to kill the family as a whole? Is this baby carrying a machine gun?”

Israeli spokesman Mark Regev suggested the claims could be Hamas propaganda and said an investigation was under way. However, he said that Israeli troops had reported that Zeitoun was “full of Hamas” militants and that soldiers encountered booby traps in “every house” in the village.

He said: “When people live in an authoritarian regime, when it’s clear there is an official message and the message is to give out atrocity propaganda, [then] at least I think we should ask questions.

“Hamas has an interest in sending out this sort of atrocity propaganda.

“What happened in that village is under investigation. I know from speaking to IDF officers that there was very serious combat in that village, that every house was booby-trapped, there were guns. Very difficult military operation.

“If there is any Israeli solder that has done something inappropriate of course that will be discovered and there will be law, but I am very concerned about a situation where children are manipulated, where everyone is on the same message.

“We know that village was full of Hamas fighters. It’s against the rules of engagement of the Israeli army to shoot innocent civilians.”

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=2569

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By cyrena, January 22, 2009 at 11:22 pm Link to this comment

Here’s an interesting twist on the blockade as an Act of War. A group of Egyptian Americans are accusing Egypt of the same.


http://www.metimes.com/Opinion/2009/01/06/egypts_blockade_of_gaza_is_an_act_of_war/7609/

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By Shingo, January 22, 2009 at 10:44 pm Link to this comment

Here’s an example that perfectly illustrates my point and the mind set (ie. mental derangement) of the Israeli apologist.

“The media is reporting that former Sen. George Mitchell, who handled the Northern Ireland peace process, is being eyed by the Obama administration to be a top diplomatic envoy to the Middle East. In 2001, Mitchell produced a report on the Middle East which recommended that Israel freeze all its settlement activities. Without a freeze, a cessation of violence would be “particularly hard to sustain,” he argued.

While Mitchell’s impending appointment is earning a great deal of praise, the Anti-Defamation League’s ABE FOXMAN COMPLAINS THE DIPLOMAT IS TOO FAIR AND BALANCED FOR THE POST:

“Sen. Mitchell is fair. He’s been meticulously even-handed,” said Abraham Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League. “But the fact is, American policy in the Middle East hasn’t been ‘even handed’ — it has been supportive of Israel when it felt Israel needed critical U.S. support.”

“So I’m concerned,” Foxman continued. “I’m not sure the situation requires that kind of approach in the Middle East.”

http://www.thejewishweek.com/viewArticle/c37_a14675/News/National.html

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By Shingo, January 22, 2009 at 10:39 pm Link to this comment

Just as I thought Inherit The Wind,

You throw all the mud you can, use all the ad hominens and straw men you can think of and when you get called out as a liar, you resort to your juvenile little tantrums.

How utterly predictable!  Even more ironic is that you accuse the rest of us of being right wing Republicans, the same demographic that agrees almost entirely with your arguments and like you, supports Israel right or wrong.

The reality is that neither you nor guys like Howard even bother to use sources or links to support your arguments.  You sit n the corner with your eyes squeezed tight, hands on your ears and repeat he same crap over and over again.

There is a very obvious link between the petulant and childish supports of Israel and Israel’s foreign policy.  You behave like brats and when someone points it out, you cry out that the world hates you.

A piece of advice.  Grow up.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 22, 2009 at 10:26 pm Link to this comment

Shingo, January 22 at 6:33 pm #

Inherit The Wind,

Just as in your previous post, you make false claims and accusations.

No one has challenged Israel’s right to exist.  Either quote the statement made that denies Israel’s right to exist to admit you are a liar.

And FYI. It comes as a great relief to know that no Jew in Israel will be committing suicide.  You see, our criticism of Israel is based on Israel’s deplorable human rights abuses and contempt for human life. It is tragic that 20 Israelis have been killed in the past 8 years by rocket attacks, but it is a catastrophe that 1,400 Palestinians were killed in the last 3 weeks…................
************************************

Same shit, different day, different poster.  You guys argue like right-wing Republicans.  Figure if you blather it 100 times and somebody refutes it, then blather it 1000 times or 10,000 times till it becomes “the truth”.  Just like the Bush faithful.

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By Shingo, January 22, 2009 at 7:33 pm Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind,

Just as in your previous post, you make false claims and accusations.

No one has challenged Israel’s right to exist.  Either quote the statement made that denies Israel’s right to exist to admit you are a liar.

And FYI. It comes as a great relief to know that no Jew in Israel will be committing suicide.  You see, our criticism of Israel is based on Israel’s deplorable human rights abuses and contempt for human life. It is tragic that 20 Israelis have been killed in the past 8 years by rocket attacks, but it is a catastrophe that 1,400 Palestinians were killed in the last 3 weeks.

Qaddaffi makes some excellent points in his article, and by and large, I agree with what he says.  So, let’s at least accept that we agree that the intimate aim is peace and equality for all.

The reason you don’t agree with his proposed solution, it must be pointed out, is because you are in favor of a Jewish only state.

>> There’s another poster, (romiro?) who blames the Jews for ALL the evil in the world…most of you stop AFTER you claim Israel is somehow magically, demonically, controlling the US government.

There is no such poster names Romiro. And no, the Israeli lobby is not magically or demonically, controlling the US government. It’s doing it old school – money, power and blackmail.

>> However, I know that all of YOU want Hamas to keep up its attacks, you want Hamas to send suicide bombers into civilian areas.

Really?  Who said that?  I’m sure you have a quote from one of US to back up this accusation?

>> In fact, in every post and every argument you all justify Hamas keeping up the terror “because it’s the only way they can fight back”.

Armed resistance to occupation is a universal right.  The founding fathers of the US used it.  So did the founding fathers of Israel. 

You’ve heard of the Irgun and the Stern Gang haven’t you?  They were terrorists who used terror.  Some of their leaders went on to become leaders of Israel, so obviously, using terrorism is not an anathema to Israeli policy.

>> At the same time you argue that Hamas’ attacks aren’t really against civilians—that’s just Israeli propaganda.

When you consider that Israel was using 2000lb bobs, it put’s things in perspective, but no, attacks on civilians are a crime.  The thing is that they are a criminal response to the criminal acts being perpetrated by Israel on them.  The same criminal acts that have been perpetrated for half a century.

Of course, Israel has always targeted civilians.  For example, they bombed the water treatment plants in Gaza and the power stations.  These are not attacks against Hamas, they are attacks against the civilian population. Shimon Perez even admitted that the purpose of the siege was to inflict pain on the civilian population.

I look forward to those quotes Mr Wind – either that or an admission that you are a liar.

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By Robert, January 22, 2009 at 7:19 pm Link to this comment

Ed Harges, Folktruther, brewerstroupe

“(Someone even claimed the rockets were no more than firecrackers—yet each one has 10 kilos of high explosive—damn big firecracker, a 22-pounder!)”

Hmmm…those kassam rockets that Hamas has are sooo lethal!

If the Israelis & zionists think the Hamas rockets are as so lethal as they say, why don’t they swap their F-16 fighters, Apache helicopters, missiles and White phosphorus bombs for a few of them?

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By Inherit The Wind, January 22, 2009 at 6:30 pm Link to this comment

Ed Harges, January 22 at 3:52 pm #

re: By brewerstroupe, January 22 at 2:17 pm:

Many thanks to bewerstroupe, for going to the trouble to refute yet again Howard’s undying Israel-lobby claim that the 1967 war was a necessary defensive undertaking by Israel in the face of an imminent existential threat.

Israel started the 1967 war; it was not necessary for any legitimate defensive purpose whatsoever. It was, in short, a war of aggression and conquest.
*****************************************
You and Shingo and FT and all the others consistently deny in every post, in every interpretation, in every twisting of facts Israel’s right to exist.

Therefore, my sarcastic solution of every Jew in Israel committing suicide is IN FACT the only solution that fits the requirements that YOU all demand of Israel. Suicide.

Just so you know (in case the disassociate neurotic fog you’re all in is too thick), it ain’t gonna happen.

Even Qaddaffi recognizes that that Jews are there to stay and they and the Muslims and Christians all need to find a way to live together in peace.  I don’t agree with his proposed solution, but I do agree with the direction.

There’s another poster, (romiro?) who blames the Jews for ALL the evil in the world…most of you stop AFTER you claim Israel is somehow magically, demonically, controlling the US government.

However, I know that all of YOU want Hamas to keep up its attacks, you want Hamas to send suicide bombers into civilian areas. In fact, in every post and every argument you all justify Hamas keeping up the terror “because it’s the only way they can fight back”.  At the same time you argue that Hamas’ attacks aren’t really against civilians—that’s just Israeli propaganda. ( Someone even claimed the rockets were no more than firecrackers—yet each one has 10 kilos of high explosive—damn big firecracker, a 22-pounder!)

Well, which is it? Is it Israeli propaganda or is Hamas justified attacking civilians, even children?  You can’t have it both ways—it has to be one or the other.

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By Folktruther, January 22, 2009 at 5:56 pm Link to this comment

Brewerstroupe-allow me to echo Ed Harges.  Very impressive.

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By Maani, January 22, 2009 at 5:02 pm Link to this comment

ITW:

Although you mention it, I think everyone would probably be interested to read Qaddafi’s Op-Ed in today’s NYT:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/opinion/22qaddafi.html?ref=opinion&pagewanted=print

Peace.

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By Ed Harges, January 22, 2009 at 4:52 pm Link to this comment

re: By brewerstroupe, January 22 at 2:17 pm:

Many thanks to bewerstroupe, for going to the trouble to refute yet again Howard’s undying Israel-lobby claim that the 1967 war was a necessary defensive undertaking by Israel in the face of an imminent existential threat.

Israel started the 1967 war; it was not necessary for any legitimate defensive purpose whatsoever. It was, in short, a war of aggression and conquest.

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By Shingo, January 22, 2009 at 4:06 pm Link to this comment

Ctos,

Sorry about the typos in that last post.

Here is a more thorough explanation.

Blockade as Act of War
http://www.crimesofwar.org/thebook/blockade-act-war.html

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By Shingo, January 22, 2009 at 3:45 pm Link to this comment

Ctos,

A casus belli and an act of war are not mutually exclusive.  A casus belli in an insisting incident, but it up to the recipient to retaliate or otherwise.

For example, Bush wanted to paint a U2 spy plane in Un colors and fly it over Iraq to incite Iraq to shoot it down.  The ide was to created a causus belli to strike Iraq.

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By Ctos, January 22, 2009 at 3:35 pm Link to this comment

Shingo,

A blockade is an act of war?

I had been led to believe that in itself it is not an act of war but rather a Casus Belli to declare war.

From wikipedia ...

Six-Day War
A casus belli played a prominent role during the Six-Day War of 1967. The Israeli government had a short list of casus belli acts, that it would consider provocations justifying armed retaliation. The most important was a blockade of the Straits of Tiran leading into Eilat, Israel’s only port to the Red Sea, through which Israel received much of its oil. After several border incidents between Israel and Egypt’s allies Syria and Jordan, Egypt expelled UNEF peacekeepers from the Sinai Peninsula, established a military presence at Sharm el-Sheikh, and announced a blockade of the straits, prompting Israel to cite its casus belli in opening hostilities against Egypt.

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By Shingo, January 22, 2009 at 3:22 pm Link to this comment

I have studied plenty of history, and what it tells us is that just like ‘56, Israel started the ‘67 war.  Israel fired the first shots did it not?  If you were indeed around then, why are you lying?

The blockade has been total by Israel.  In any case, a blockade is an act of war.  There is no such thing as a partial act of war.  Hamas were not bombarding Israel during the truce, yet Israel vilated the truce as per their agreement adn refused to lift the blockade anyway.

>>> just like our blockade of some products to Cuba.

That too is an act of war.  It’s simply a case of the US being too powerful for anyone to challenge it.

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By Ctos, January 22, 2009 at 3:18 pm Link to this comment

Howie,

So you were “around” diuring the ‘67 war. Does that mean you witnessed the events first hand?

If not, why is your version of the chronology of events any more valid?

BTW Israel did start the ‘67 war. They attacked egypt. You can whine till you are blue in the face about the blockade but as we all know, a blockade is a Casus Belli to DECLARE war. Israel did not declare war but rather launched a sneak attack just like the Japanese did in ‘41.

During the Cuban Missile Crisis, the US imposed a blockade on Cuba. At no time during that crisis were the USSR and the US at war (nor the US and Cuba).

It is pro-Israelis such as yourself who are re-writing history. That has been the modus operandi of Israel and its supporters since ‘48.

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By brewerstroupe, January 22, 2009 at 3:17 pm Link to this comment

Origins of the 1967 War

It is usually sufficient to quote General Peled, Israel’s chief of staff “The thesis that the danger of genocide was hanging over us in June 1967 and that Israel was fighting for its physical existence is only bluff, which was born and developed after the war.” and Yitzhak Rabin: “I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to the Sinai on 14 May would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive against Israel. He knew it and we knew it” (Le Monde, 29 February 1968).....to dispel the existential threat myth.

In 1982, the Israelis admitted that they had started the war. Prime Minister Menachem Begin, in a speech delivered at the Israeli National Defense College, clearly stated that: “The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him” (Jerusalem Post, 20 August 1982).

One must understand the context of the times. Israel was harassing the Syrians to clear the ground for their diversion of the Jordan River:
Moshe Dayan, Israel’s defence minister at the time, said that 80 per cent of these confrontational episodes were planned and executed by Israel…..
“It went this way: We would send a tractor to plough some place where it wasn’t possible to do anything, in the demilitarised area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn’t shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance farther, until in the end [the] Syrians would get annoyed and shoot.
“And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that’s how it was.”

In April 1967, one of these Israeli provocations became a full-fledged aerial battle with the Syrians. The Israelis shot down six Syrian planes, including one over Damascus.
At this point Gamal Abdel Nasser, president of Egypt, was highly criticised for his ineffectiveness and was seen as simply an orator, and not a doer, for Arab nationalism and unity. He signed a defense pact with Syria and sent troops into the Sinai hoping to deter an Israeli attack. With his first rank forces bogged down in Yemen, the forces available to him were ill-equipped and took up defensive positions only.
On receiving Soviet intelligence that Israel was about to attack, Nasser asked that the UN forces be moved onto the Israeli side of the border. He did not wish to be responsible for UN casualties. U Thant (U.N. Secretary General) said in his memoir that the war could have been avoided had Israel complied with this request but they refused, the UN withdrew.
It was at this point that Israel attacked.
One interesting theory has it that Israel’s attack was prompted by fears that Nasser planned a surgical strike on Israel’s nuclear weapons facility at Dimona.
Some contend that closing the Straits of Tiran was cassus beli. This is hardly credible. Less than 5% of Israel’s trade flowed through the Straits and was easily re-routed. Nasser knew this as did the Israelis. It was a token gesture in protest at Israel’s behaviour in the Golan and Nasser offered a moratorium on it almost as soon as it was announced, along with an offer to have the World Court arbitrate the issue.
Mordechai Bentov, a former member of the ruling coalition during the June war, said he had not voted in favour of the war because he was convinced that all diplomatic and political means had not been employed to obtain the reopening of the Gulf of Akaba. He added: “This whole story about the threat of extermination was totally contrived and then elaborated on afterwards to justify the annexation of new Arab territories.”(cited in Le Monde, June 3, 1972)

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By Howard, January 22, 2009 at 2:58 pm Link to this comment

Study a little history and you will know that Israel did not start the ‘67 war.  Can’t argue with someone who is revising history. I was around then. Were you?

Blockade was total in that case you mention, only partial by Israel lately to get hamas’s attention to stop their bombardment of Israel with rockets for months. just like our blockade of some products to Cuba.

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By Shingo, January 22, 2009 at 2:38 pm Link to this comment

In 1967, it was Isrel that launched the war, and then went on to steal the West Bank.  That’s no re-writing history, that’s simply reading it.

Ironically, one fo the reasons used by Israel for starting the war was that it was being blockaded by Egypt - the same thing Isral has been doing to Gaza since 2005 and yet, Israel pretends that the rocket attacks are unprovoked.

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By Howard, January 22, 2009 at 2:23 pm Link to this comment

re Bob in Pacifica

Nice comments, Bob, on the mark.  Indeed !

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By Howard, January 22, 2009 at 1:48 pm Link to this comment

Some expansion.  what nonsense…1967,when another war was initiated against it, Israel responded; and u have the chutzpah to say they ’ stole ’ it.

Amazing. the nerve involve to rewrite history is, yes, amazing.

Next thing one knows you’ll state it wasn’t islamic militants who brought down the towers. Can’t wait to hear the rewrite from u on that.  Like you’re trying to do on ‘67. Of course, if you weren’t around then in ‘67, and I doubt it, you’d bevlieve anything about that time.

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By Shingo, January 22, 2009 at 12:51 pm Link to this comment

Inhert the Wind read this report and decided is said something completely add odds with the words on the page.

The instigation was not by Hamas.  Israel’s lies are being exposed by the day.  As it turns out, the number of rockets fired out of Gaza during the ceasfire was almost zero, until Irsrael broke it in November.  and none of there will be no response by Israel. 1 rocket in July, 1 in September, 1 in October, 8 in August. None of them attributed to Hamas.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nancy-kanwisher/reigniting-violence-how-d_b_155611.html?view=print

Sharong decided that after the dissengagement, Gaza was going to turned into an open air prison.  The settlers destroyed everything that was left as they withdrew from Gaza.  Israel have never and would never help them. 

This has been documented in a book recently tranlsated into English called:

” Lords of the Land: The Settlers and the State of Israel, 1967-2004”

One quote reads:

Although Israel and its supporters in the West portrayed this move as a gesture towards peace, “unilateralism” was in fact part of a larger effort to derail the so-called Road Map, freeze the peace process, and consolidate Israeli control over the West Bank, thereby putting off the prospect of a Palestinian state “indefinitely.”

Gaza is mess created by Israel adn it is Israel’s to fix, not the Arab States.  Israel has become accustomed to others fixing their mess, but the time ahs come or them state of Israel to grow up and become responsible.

If Israel had listened to Ben Gurion and not stolen land in 1967, Israel would have had a secure peace by now, but as had bee documented by Idith Zertal and Akiva Eld in their book, Israeal has always favoroed expansion over peace.

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By Bobadi, January 22, 2009 at 11:27 am Link to this comment

“Little Israel?” Howard, your 4th largest military in the world, built by the US, is hardly “little.”

Please comment on the UN commissioner video I posted explaining that Israel is entirely at blame for this slaughter.

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By Howard, January 22, 2009 at 10:04 am Link to this comment

Inhert the Wind is rite.

If no instigation by Hamas, there will be no response by Israel.

If Hamas can get over trying to eradicate Israel and its population, they just may realize the ONLY friend in the area is Israel who will go out of its way to help gazans if they wish to nation build and get along with Israel.

no arab country is or will help gazans. They do not want them to get off their current program. They do not want to see a viable strong pal state.  Would put them to shame. So they actually promote, with Iran leading the charge, a militaristic, terroristic, approach to Israel.

If tiny little Israel would not have to defend itself from the radical insane people who are trying full time to do away with it, and had someone to talk with about a secure peace for all in the immediate area, it would be terrific.  Let us fervently hope it will happen.

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By Bob In Pacifica, January 22, 2009 at 9:05 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Does anyone here really think that the Qassam rockets were of any military value? What other purpose were they than to terrorize Israelis and provoke a response? And what other response did Hamas think that they were going to get from Israel? A negotiated withdrawal from Palestine?

Here are the facts: Both sides use religion and hatred of the Other to organize their societies. Israel’s military is far superior to any other in the Middle East and they have a nuclear arsenal that is capable of destroying every major city in Islam if it ever gets to an endgame situation. That Israel would even threaten to take out Iranian targets was a message to Cairo, Damascus, Jiddah, etc.

You don’t have to be a supporter of Israel to recognize its existence and its inevitability for a long time to come.

So why does Hamas keep jabbing at Israel? Because the fantasy of retaking Palestine and driving the Jews into the sea is at the core of its reason for being. If Hamas abandons its war with Israel then the people in Gaza will start paying attention to the wreckage, the hungry children, the lack of work. Better to have a situation where they can forever blame the Jews, and then have the Jews oblige.

That’s why this won’t change. Everyone’s getting what they want, except for those people who weren’t quite ready to be martyrs.

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By KDelphi, January 22, 2009 at 8:55 am Link to this comment

ITW—This is not personal , but you are starting to sound like a Jewish cliche’...“everyone wa ts the Jews to lose everything”.

No one has backed Israel like theuS, and no one has paid a higher price for it.

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By Bobadi, January 22, 2009 at 6:56 am Link to this comment

“Inherit the wind”..
You need to realize that it always seems to be you Zionists, backed by US funded weapons, who are entirely responsible for starting up round after round of your slaughter.

Explain this UN commissioner answering Zionist spin, and telling us of Israel’s unprovoked attacks on Gaza:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDbW4zd59yM”

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By Shingo, January 22, 2009 at 5:42 am Link to this comment

And along comes Inherit The Wind,

Who upon reading this report, invents a straw man and goes off on some existential tangent about how everyone wants Jews to die.  Bravo!!

>>But somehow, Truthdiggers think this is a bad thing.

It’s not.  The bad thing is that as we all know, this is not the end of the conflict.  Israel will find some reason to start another fight and bomb the hell out of Gaza ll over again - as they have done for decades.
 
>>> Good plan.  Even Muammar Qaadaffi in today’s New York Times doesn’t advocate that. 

Nor has anyone on this list, nor has the author of this article. 

You are a liar. Have a nice day.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 22, 2009 at 5:20 am Link to this comment

Exclusive to Truthdig!

Israel declares cease-fire and withdraws from Gaza.
Hamas declares cease-fire and stops firing missiles at Israel.

But somehow, Truthdiggers think this is a bad thing.

What’s wrong with this picture? 
If Israel stops bombing Gaza and withdraws, and Hamas stops attacking Israel in its turn, how is this a bad thing?

I know! You won’t be happy unless every Israeli (Jew, not Muslim) immediately commits hari-kari. 

Better still, for every Jew everywhere in the world to commit suicide.  Then there will be heaven on Earth and all people will live in peace.

Right.  Good plan.  Even Muammar Qaadaffi in today’s New York Times doesn’t advocate that.  Only the craziest of Islamic Jihadists and ultra “progressives” want that.

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By Shingo, January 22, 2009 at 3:38 am Link to this comment

It never ceases to amaze me how vicious and in-humane the IDF can become - especailyl it seems against a defenseless enemy.  In the last 72 hours of before the ceasefire in the 2006 Lebanon war. Israel sropped 100 thousand cluster bombs on Southern Lebanon. 

Cluster bolmbs are the most indiscrimate of all weapons.  They littered the country for years and are still there, waiting for unsuspecting children to pick them up or civilians to accidently step on them.

These are very sick people.

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By Nozferatu, January 22, 2009 at 1:26 am Link to this comment

Although I have posted this elsewhere too, it’s worth a repost.

By the way,

Here are some images and video of the subhuman pieces of shit dropping white phosphorous on CHILDREN’S SCHOOL.

Please be warned…it is somewhat graphic.

http://cc.aljazeera.net/node/47

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45397000/jpg/_45397730_006735951.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7841999.stm

Man I can’t wait for justice to be served to these people…I just can’t wait.

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By Shingo, January 22, 2009 at 12:35 am Link to this comment

Why are you surprised Nozferatu?

We’re talking about a military unit that used white Phosphorus of the population

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/world/middleeast/22phosphorus.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss

and shot parents in front of their children

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/4309611/Israel-accused-of-executing-parents-in-front-of-children-in-Gaza.html

So much for Israel being a moral light to the world.  More like a red light to the world.

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By Bobadi, January 22, 2009 at 12:25 am Link to this comment

I can’t get past the beginning paragraph describing Hamas as being “anti-Semitic.”
This seems to be playing into the hands of Zionists, as Hamas itself is made up of Semitic people.
Unless Chris Hedges can fully understand this, and so also understand that the racism he is speaking of starts and ends with just one tribe that has a unique religious identity which only pretends itself a different race; so to make believe it has a “land grant from God” to take other Semite tribe’s lands.

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By Nozferatu, January 22, 2009 at 12:21 am Link to this comment

““numerous children, too emaciated even to stand up, had spent days in an apartment complex lying next to the corpses of their parents and other relatives as the IDF blocked ambulances from reaching them. “”
—————————————————————————
What sort of human being would knowingly leave young children lying near their dead parents for days?  Even hours?  Can you even begin to imagine what trauma and psychological damage this has done to these children?  Can we? 

Only barbaric subhuman trash would allow this to happen.  No ifs, ands, or buts.

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By Shingo, January 21, 2009 at 10:04 pm Link to this comment

I’m not contributing to this discussion for Howard’s benefit cyrena.  I come across his ilk every time the topic of Israel is mentioned.  He is a stereotype of the Israeli amen corner, that defend Israel’s every move, right or wrong.  Their behavior is predictable, always churlish and juvenile and always unable to debate the facts.  The Howard’s of this world know the truth, and in spite of all the resources and support that Israel has, it is the truth that still frightens them.

I am here to learn from others as well as contribute.  One day, we will see justice.  Without it, there will be no peace.

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Robert's avatar

By Robert, January 21, 2009 at 10:00 pm Link to this comment

Unanimous Consent    

When Israel acts, Congress applauds. No debate required.

By Glenn Greenwald

“January 21, 2009 “American Conservative”—-In most of the world, the Israeli attack on Gaza is viewed as an intensely controversial act and, more commonly, an excessive, unjustifiable, and brutal assault on a trapped civilian population. But not in the United States—at least not among America’s political and opinion-making elite. Here one finds a bipartisan consensus as simplistic as it is unquestioned: Israel’s bombing campaign and invasion of Gaza are right and just, and it is the duty of the U.S. to support these actions unequivocally.

From the moment Israel began dropping bombs on Gaza, leaders of America’s two major political parties rushed to announce their total support, competing to see who could most fulsomely praise the offensive. So complete was the agreement that they all seemed to be reading from the same script. While other Western governments issued even-handed statements condemning both Israel and Hamas and their diplomats worked furiously to forge a ceasefire agreement, America’s political leaders stood on the sidelines, cheering with increasing fervor.

When it comes to Israel’s various military actions, there is far more dissent within Israel, where one commonly finds prominent, vehement criticism of the Israeli government, than there is within the U.S., where such criticism is all but nonexistent. Indeed, in the U.S. Congress, there is far more unqualified support for Israel’s wars than for America’s own.

The refusal of our political leaders to deviate even slightly from this ritual reached its zenith during the week of Jan. 5, when events in Gaza heightened worldwide opposition to the Israeli attack. The Palestinian death toll exceeded 800, with more than 3,000 wounded. The UN reported that roughly a third of the dead and wounded were children, that Gaza was on the verge of collapse, that its residents were on the brink of mass starvation. Israel bombed a school where the UN had established a shelter, killing 40 refugees hiding there in terror. The Israeli Defense Force initially claimed that Hamas militants had shot from a rooftop of the school and Israel merely returned fire. But the following day, when the UN investigated and found that claim to be false, Israel was forced to acknowledge that no such provocation occurred. Instead, the IDF said, the bombing of the school was merely an accident.

The next day, the Red Cross, which for a full week had been prevented by the IDF from entering Gaza, unveiled a gruesome discovery: numerous children, too emaciated even to stand up, had spent days in an apartment complex lying next to the corpses of their parents and other relatives as the IDF blocked ambulances from reaching them. The same day, the UN suggested that Israel had committed war crimes, citing an appalling incident in which the Israelis ordered some 110 civilians to enter a house and stay there, then proceeded to shell the building, killing 30 civilians inside. Though the IDF physically prevented journalists from entering Gaza, even in the face of a week-old order from the Israeli Supreme Court directing them to allow access, documented stories began emerging of large extended families in Gaza—parents, grandparents, uncles and aunts, and small children—extinguished by Israeli attacks.”

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21805.htm

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By Nozferatu, January 21, 2009 at 9:07 pm Link to this comment

The gravy train goes straight to Israel. It’s no coincidence that there are so many jews in such high places making more than money than most others.  Call it for what you will but that is the simple truth.

They’ve built an empire heading straight back to Israel for the sole purpose of such events.  Want to bring Israel to its knees?  Stop the gravy train…stop the money.  Then they’ll fall to their knees and become human beings again.

And let’s ignore Howierd…he’s a troll…and a lying sack of manure.  Adios Howierd.

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By cyrena, January 21, 2009 at 9:05 pm Link to this comment

Shingo,

Keep up the good fight. Many of us have dismissed Howie long ago. There’s no hope for him, and he’s not reading any of the truths you’re putting out there.

BUT…some folks might be, so keep up the effort.

Thanks.

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By Shingo, January 21, 2009 at 5:47 pm Link to this comment

I second that, superb post brewerstroup.

No KDelphi.  The international community has to step up and isolate Israel diplomatically and economically. 

It’s interesting that you raise the issue of the US being a terror state.  The US in the only state that has been found guilty of state terrorism for it’s attacks on Nicaragua.  Also, when Reagan was in power, he appointed a board to come up with a definition of terrorism that would become the basis of US policy.  They came up with 6 and rejected all of them because every one was self incriminating.

Will the US have to block it to prevent indicitng the—US?

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By KDelphi, January 21, 2009 at 5:13 pm Link to this comment

Shingo—Is there a country who could “step up”?

brewerstroup—great stuff!! Now, someone (besides Howard) please explain to me how Israel is not a terrorist nation…

If we are intending to continue this “war on terror” (which should be halted immediately or we shall have to attack ourselves—or, as a member of Parliament in the UK said, “we cannot adopt the ‘terror charter’ rice is proposing or we would have to declare the uS a terrorist state), how will the govt get around prosecuting Israel?

Will the US have to block it to prevent indicitng the—US?

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By brewerstroupe, January 21, 2009 at 4:37 pm Link to this comment

Yet another ....

apologist for the slaughter of innocents waves the Hamas charter around like a red flag.

Apart from the fact that the translation is highly dubious, the charter has never been adopted by the Political wing of Hamas according to Sir Jeremy Greenstock, former British Ambassador to the U.N.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_7823000/7823746.stm

Yet another example of the one-way glass method of reading History.

The fact that the founding documents of every major Israeli political party express similar denials of Palestinian rights, loony religious rhetoric and genocidal statements:

Likud:

  The ‘Peace & Security’ chapter of the Likud Party platform “flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river.” The chapter continues: “The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state.”

Kadima:

  “The Israeli nation has a national and historic right to the whole of Israel.”

Shas.
The founder and spiritual leader of Shas stated:

  “It is forbidden to be merciful to them(Arabs). You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable,” he was quoted as saying in a sermon delivered on Monday to mark the Jewish festival of Passover.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1270038.stm

Let us not forget that Israel was founded on terrorism, not only practiced but boasted about. This from the founding documents of the Stern gang:

    1 - The nation: The Jewish people is a covenanted people, the originator of monotheism[13], formulator of the prophetic teachings, standard bearer of human culture, guardian of glorious patrimony. The Jewish people is schooled in self-sacrifice and suffering; its vision, survivability and faith in redemption are indestructible.
  2 - The homeland: The homeland in the Land of Israel within the borders delineated in the Bible (“To your descendants, I shall give this land, from the River of Egypt to the great Euphrates River.” Genesis 15:18) This is the land of the living, where the entire nation shall live in safety.
  3 - The nation and its land: Israel conquered the land with the sword. There it became a great nation and only there it will be reborn. Hence Israel alone has a right to that land. This is an absolute right. It has never expired and never will.

“Neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat. We are very far from having any moral qualms as far as our national war goes. We have before us the command of the Torah, whose morality surpasses that of any other body of laws in the world: “Ye shall blot them out to the last man.” But first and foremost, terrorism is for us a part of the political battle being conducted under the present circumstances, and it has a great part to play: speaking in a clear voice to the whole world, as well as to our wretched brethren outside this land, it proclaims our war against the occupier. We are particularly far from this sort of hesitation in regard to an enemy whose moral perversion is admitted by all.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)#18_Principles_of_Rebirth

The Stern Gang under Yitzak Rabin not only offered military support to the Nazis but they went on to assassinate Lord Moyne, Count Bernadotte, drove a truckload of explosives into a British police station in Haifa killing four and injuring 140, mined the train north of Rehovot, killing 28 soldiers and wounding 35, another train near Binyamina killing 40 civilians and wounding 60 and carried out the massacre and rapes at Deir Yassin.

One is forced to wonder what Israel boosters would expect from a political movement (the very formation of which was inspired by the massacre of 29 praying Palestinians by Baruch Goldstein and whose leaders have been subject to “targeted assassination” by Israel, a war crime in itself)

- love letters?

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By Shingo, January 21, 2009 at 4:25 pm Link to this comment

>> In December , last month, it was Hamas who refused to renew the cease-fire. Period.

Wrong.  For the hunerdth time, here is the report that debunks that lie. Period.

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=45350

>> A 2 state solution coming from Hamas is opposite of what their mouths and goals are:

You’re just resorting to javeline behavior.  If they are lying about wanting a 2 state solution, then how do you know they are not lying about wanting to destroy Israel?

>> And last June it was Hamas who from day one, not Israel, who started the bombardment

Wrong again.

Israel agreed to lift the blockade as part of the ceasefire agreement.  They refused to lift it before a single rocket was fired by Hamas.

Then in November, Israel violated the ceasefire when it raided Gaza and killed 7 Paletinians.

>> Revisionism of historical facts can be found by you on many unfactual web sites.

You have not used any facts in any of your argument.  You have merely repeated the Israel’s official propaganda.  You clearly don’t know the difference and have not provided a single course to support your argument that my sources are nonfactual (unfactual is not a word Howard).

It’s a common trend among Israeli apologists, that they become juvenile and belligerent in the face of overwhelming evidence that exposes their arguments. You are typical of that behavior Howard.

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By Howard, January 21, 2009 at 3:52 pm Link to this comment

In December , last month, it was Hamas who refused to renew the cease-fire. Period. And on the day of refusing to do it, increased the rate of rockets and missles.

A 2 state solution coming from Hamas is opposite of what their mouths and goals are:  destruction of Israel. and certainly not back to ‘67 borders as Hamas indicates as their pre-condition.

And last June it was Hamas who from day one, not Israel, who started the bombardment, after a cease fire was set-up.  Revisionism of historical facts can be found by you on many unfactual web sites.

where you must be getting that nonsense.

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By Shingo, January 21, 2009 at 3:25 pm Link to this comment

>> There is no area of compromise, no area of discussion; for Hamas, the land of Israel is not to be. It is to be only for Islam. forever.

as it turns out, the refusal to comprimise is comming from Israel.

In 2006, Hamas supported a 2 state solution.  Israel rejected it.

In 2006, Hamas signed the offer from the League of Arab Nations, offering to recognize Israel (as per the 1967 borders) and normalize relations with Israel.  Israel rejected it.

In June, Israel and Hamas entered into a truce.  Israel agreed to the terms then vilated them from day 1.
In December, Hamas proposed the continuation of the of the cease fire agreement.  Israel rejected it.

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By Shingo, January 21, 2009 at 2:46 pm Link to this comment

>> Hamas doesn’t just call for but has been working towards the destruction of Israel in tandem with its charter.

That’s comletely false.  In 2006, Hamas called for a 2 state solution and signed the offer by the Arab League that recognizes Israel as per the 1967 borders.

>> It initiated suicide bombings indside Israel beginning in the 1990s that killed and maimed Jews in their own areas.

It did so after Israel initiated the closure, check points and subjugations of Palestinians.

Similaly, the rockets it rains down from Gaza into Israel are aresponse to the stalling of negotiations by Israel and the tightening of the blockade (an act of war) as well as assasinations and kidnappings carried out by Israel.

It is Israel that does not want to compromise because it does nto want to allow a Palestinians state to exist, nor does it want go give back the West Bank or allow the Palestinians to have autonomy and sovereignty.

It is Israel who is the disgrace. They show comtempt for internationak law and human rights, are the only country in the wold that opnely boasts of it’s polilcies of extra judicial kidnappings, assassinations and toture.

In spite of all the aid, protection and favouratism Israel receives, it is an apartheid state and a rogue nation.  It is also the ounly contry that honours and reveres terrorist leaders and war criminals by electing them to government.

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By TTFN, January 21, 2009 at 2:08 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Israel, Palestine, Columbia, Guatemala, Panama, Haiti, Nicaragua, Viet Nam, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Korea, etc.,all puppets in the game of U.S. Imperialism! Stop ignoring the Truth!!! Capitalist aggression is what fuels these disputes and promotes the violence which generates many billions of dollars for commercial interests thus diverting the public from making civil progress. The ones who refuse to capitulate to U.S. Imperialism, (Chavez, Castro, et al) are demonized as “communists” (four letter word in the U.S.) Witness the virtual strangulation of Cuba by U.S embargoes and how other countries are forbidden to trade with Cuba by the U.S.??? Then people are brainwashed into thinking that Cuba is so impoverished because Castro’s communism is a failure! How is it any different than Palestine!? Wake effing UP!!!

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By Howard, January 21, 2009 at 1:36 pm Link to this comment

Hamas doesn’t just call for but has been working towards the destruction of Israel in tandem with its charter. It initiated suicide bombings indside Israel beginning in the 1990s that killed and maimed Jews in their own areas.  Hamas did so seeking to drive them out. The rockets it rains down from Gaza into Israel in ever deepining distace also seeks to destroy Jewish life in Israel.

There is no area of compromise, no area of discussion; for Hamas, the land of Israel is not to be. It is to be only for Islam. forever.

Their charter and words extol Jihad. Nothing less. It also demonizes the Jewish people.  It accuses Jews of causing the French revolution, the Communist Revolution, World War I and World War II, as well as the Freemasons, the Rotary Clubs, and the Lions all being secret Jewish outfits.

Hamas’s mission is a disgrace. For their own people and the world.

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By Shingo, January 21, 2009 at 1:06 pm Link to this comment

>> Ahh, that Irgun, what a wonderful outfit.”

Yes, I had a feeling that deep down you were an admirer of certain types of terrorists. I’m sure you popped a bottle of champagne and toasted the 60th anniversay of the bombing of the Kig David Hotel, just as Bibbi did.  What other country still celebrates a terrorist attack?

I thought you would have been a fan of Hams, seeing as ISrael helped create Hams in the first place, but anyway…

I am not at all worried about Hamas.  They are no threat to Israel, demonstarted starkly by the fact that they were not even able to make a dent in the IDF over teh siege.  It is ironic that all the Israelis that dies were killed by friendly fire, and the number were almost as many as Hamas were able to kill in the last 8 years.

On the other hand, Israel have killed 1300 Palestians, most of them civilaisn and the thiird of them children, the same as they did i Lebanon in 2006.  They attacked Syrian last year for no reason and they even tried to attack Iran, for no reason and potentially start a world war.

Israel is a much greater threet to world peace than Hamas ever would be.

>> And teaches hatred, utter hatred daily to their children in the schools and in their mosques.

So does Israel.  What do you call teachign chilren to write messages on the casings of 500 lb bombs that are likely to land on children?  Love?

>> It will be years before their society gets rid of this death culture that they are hooked on.

I wonder how many years it will be for the Israeli society to get rid fo their persecution complex, cutlture of waging war and sense of entitlement? I suspect it will be a great deal longer.

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By Nozferatu, January 21, 2009 at 11:40 am Link to this comment

Howiedd

I’m glad you understand…

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By Howard, January 21, 2009 at 11:35 am Link to this comment

Nofzzz,

Likewise !

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By Nozferatu, January 21, 2009 at 11:28 am Link to this comment

Hooward,

You poor morally bankrupt person. 

I can’t blame you…you belong to a group that lying is habitual, racism is in-bred, and murder is acceptable.

As I look at that picture of three women sitting in the rubble and no where to go, I do hope one day the same fate befalls on you too. 

When that happens, I’d like to continue chatting with you on the Internet to see how you feel.  There is no other way for you to appreciate your barbarism I’m afraid.  And you’ve taken one giant step forward in assuring that fate for yourselves.

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By Howard, January 21, 2009 at 10:20 am Link to this comment

Ahh, that Irgun, what a wonderful outfit.

In contrast it is Hamas who we should worry about, who’s charter calls for the destruction of Israel and its citizens.  And teaches hatred, utter hatred daily to their children in the schools and in their mosques.  It will be years before their society gets rid of this death culture that they are hooked on.

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By SODIUM, January 21, 2009 at 9:54 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Talking about deliberate attack on civilians for ethnic cleansing,one should,rather must,read a book entitled “The Revolt” written by Menachem Begin who was the leader of a terrorist organization called “IRGUN”.This IS just one of the several terrorist organizations that terrorized the Palestinian people in 1947-1948,just prior to the creation of Israel in May of 1948.

Menachem Begin became Israel’s Prime Minister in the late 1970S and early 1980s.Invasion of Lebanon in 1982 took place on his watch as Prime Minister of Israel.

IN HIS BOOK ENTITLED “THE REVOLT”,HE DESCRIBED HOW HE AND HIS GANG OF ZIONIST TERRORISTS MURDERED 254 PEACFUL RESIDENTS IN THE PALESTINIAN TOWN OF DER YASEEN,NEAR JERUSALEM AND THEN HE BRAGGED HOW HIS GANG OF TERRORISTS CONQUERED THE NEIGHBORING AREAS GOING THROUGH IT LIKE A KNIFE GOING THROUGH BUTTER.

IT IS IRONIC HOW,NOW,THE ZIONISTS DARE ACCUSING ANYBODY OF CONDUCTING TERRORISM!! THEY ARE THE REAL TERRORISTS.THE SLAUGHTER IN GAZA IS THE LAST OF THEIR EVIL DEEDS HAVE BEEN GOING ON FOR THE LAST 60 YEARS AND COUNTING…....

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By Peter Belmont, January 21, 2009 at 5:12 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Why say that Israel (or the USA) has failed when, as I see it, the most that can be said is that the official statements of purpose, the pabulum for the people, express goals which have not been fulfilled?

The leaders have their reasons, unknown to the people, and they may succeed where the PUBLIC goals have not been achieved.

Peace not achieved is failure? Not a bit of it!  A rain of rockets—while a bit hard on the people of Israel—is not hard on the leaders who, collectively and across all parties, desire empire, a greater Israel, never having to say they are sorry, never having to recognize that Palestinians are people and have human rights (to say nothing of national rights), keeping a strong military.

A rain of rockets, a suicide bombing now and again, keep the people in war fever and keep war-governments in power.

So far, the policy of Israel has been a rousing success, from the viewpoint of war-governments. The only way it could fail is a change in EXTERNAL CIRCUMSTANCES. The Palestinians cannot defeat Israel. But the USA, the EU, the UNSC, have the power to do much, for ill (as in the past) or for good.

See: http://123pab.com/essay.php?n=24.

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By Shingo, January 21, 2009 at 12:34 am Link to this comment

Very well put Kay,

In fact, it was the leaders of the Irgun, Stern Gand, and Haganah that later whent on to become Isreli leaders.  Then there’s Tzipi Livni, a so called dove, who’s father, Eitan Livni, was also a leader of the Irgun.

Add to that Ariel Sharon, a convited War Criminal and it pretty much sums up Israel -  a state that has been run by terrorist leaders and war criminals since it was created.

And here we are, listening to Israel’s amen corner complaining about Hamas.  Truly Orwellian.

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By Kay Swen, January 20, 2009 at 11:57 pm Link to this comment

I agree with your view on Hamas, in no way would I support their politics.  However, I believe there is a moral difference between them and the Irgun and Lehi.  Hamas attacks civilians in a defensive war, while all the Zionist/Israeli armed forces, the Irgun, Lehi and Haganah which developed into the IDF, attack civilians as a deliberate policy of ethnic cleansing.  I’m not meaning to excuse it, an attack on a civilian is an attack on a civilian.  However, the Zionist attacks on civilians were long premeditated, calculated and deliberate in order to “cleanse” the land of its native inhabitants.  The state-sponsored Israeli attacks on civilians are similarly calculated to crush, kill and punish innocent people who might have the temerity to believe in their right to exist in their homeland.

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By Oceana, January 20, 2009 at 10:16 pm Link to this comment

This situation is so perverse that my heart continues to cry for the Palestinians the indigenous people of its own land. How is the guilt of the oppressor placed on the victim? This travesty is propagated through the ignorance and indifference of the world enabled through deliberate disinformation by the guilty parties. The story of the oppressed is never told in its proper context. Yet how are people blinded to the inhumane acts committed against our fellow man?

I feel helpless by not being able to assist my brothers and sisters in Palestine in a very real way that will elevate their pain, suffering and the destruction that surrounds them. The best that I can do is pass on what I learn and know to be true. I will continue to seek to be a reasoned rational voice for this to stop and that a true and just resolution is found. I cannot remain silent! I had always hoped that I would not remain silent at the atrocities committed against humanity if I had lived during the time of WWII. It shaped me in a very real way. I have always held the question, ‘How could it have happened?’ ‘Would I be guilty of not seeing?’ We wonder how it happened then? We only need to look around us, at ourselves, and see with eyes wide open to find our answer!

I cannot rest when such an injustice is taking place. I cannot rest when my government is supporting and enabling such inhumane crimes for its own self-interests and corporate profits at the cost of innocent lives.

I am not ignorant of our government’s inhumane dealings throughout history to the indigenous people of this land and countries throughout the world. Yet, something seems to me to be equally, if not more perverse and more blatant than usual, and I think that it is the reality that the very thing that the Zionist Industrialists have sought to invoke in the name of Judaism reflects such hypocrisy in that they themselves cannot live without a land and continue to steal a land from the indigenous community, while they fault the indigenous people for the very thing that they themselves cannot do! Therefore, they invade, occupy with an iron hand, and continue to steal more land; while expecting the Palestinians to live without their land. They have the audacity to charge them as terrorists for seeking to maintain their property while they are being pillaged, raped and murdered by real terrorist acts committed blatantly before the international community (supported by the internationalist community) with no repercussions! How is it that what the Zionist in the name of Judaism cannot do they expect the indigenous people of Palestine to do with no resistance while their homes and land of milk and honey that they cultivated has been and continues to be destroyed and stolen from them? How is it that the Israeli government is committing such inhumane treatment against an indigenous people of the land they occupy enabled by France, England and the U.S.A., inhumane treatment that they themselves capitalize on while they are now committing inhumane acts against the indigenous people of the land they occupy?

I cannot help but think of a poem that I once wrote (concerning another topic) regarding a mouse dropped in the midst of the viper’s cage for feeding. It knows it cannot get out while also knowing its oppressor seeks to destroy its very existence. Setting aside all other arguments, the people of GAZA cannot escape while being bombarded by Israel with U.S.A.’s massive war machinery. This is a war crime in itself. There is no other name for it but pure premeditated genocide.

I suggest the following web-links in addition to this website: Palestine Remembered; If Americans Knew; Occupation 101; Dr. Hatem Bazian; MyIsraelQuestion;

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By Shingo, January 20, 2009 at 10:04 pm Link to this comment

KDelphi

>> Do you thint that the uN will do something about Israel? What about Bush?

No way.  The UN can only do what the UNSC will do and seeing as the US has veto power, the UN’s hands are tied.

The trouble with international law, is that there is no one (othr than the US) to enforce it, so when the enforcer breaks the law, well….

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By KDelphi, January 20, 2009 at 8:04 pm Link to this comment

Shingo—Wouldnt the crimes of invading rather include all the crimes “after”?

I mean, some may not, but, as with Iraq, I blame Bush & Co. for Abu Ghairb (the people wh commited the acutal crimes, Lindey England and Charles Taylor, should be “punished” ,but, they are in prison and Bush goes home to raise funds!!), the entiere “war on terror”, even for allowing Isreal, and promoting them by selling them illegal weapons.

Do you thint that the uN will do something about Israel? What about Bush?

I know ,you just arent used to people asking honest questions online. I know that I dont know everything—not even alot, when it comes to law, and other topics.But, I want to know..

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By MeHere, January 20, 2009 at 6:43 pm Link to this comment

Another great article by Chris Hedges.

No amount of philosophical, historical, religious or moral discussion will contribute anything to solve the terrible situation that involves the US (and allies) and MIddle-Eastern countries.  We are dealing with a severely broken state of affairs. When a car breaks down, people don’t usually engage in intellectual discussions. They look at the facts and they concentrate on what’s the best way to fix it.  They don’t rely on empty words like “hope,” “pacifism,” “victory” and the like—and neither they go and buy weapons to attack the car (however tempting that may be at times.) 

Silly comparison?  Maybe. But consider this for a moment: There is no evidence that the high human and financial cost of all these conflicts have improved the situation in the least.  Isn’t it time already to face reality and support a more creative approach?  The US should be the first country to stop using massive force which kills and terrorizes thousands upon thousands of people in an attempt to punish a few individuals who are engaged in violent acts.  The present approach is only advancing the goals of ambitious politicians and war businesses, and it inevitably creates more violent acts of self-defense. It is no longer a matter of right and wrong. This is just plain dumb. We need to be wise and practical now in order to try to fix what is broken. Principles and endless historical data can be saved for better times.

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By Shingo, January 20, 2009 at 5:29 pm Link to this comment

KDelphi,

Sorry if that came across as aggressive. The point I was trying to make is that war crimes are unique in that the war crime of aggressive war is singled out as encompassing all other war crimes that follow as a consequence of it.

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By geronimo, January 20, 2009 at 5:26 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

What Was That Sound?

yesterday losing its grip

tomorrow no longer on hold

yes we can

from this moment on

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By KDelphi, January 20, 2009 at 4:52 pm Link to this comment

Shingo—I really was just asking—no need to take an attitude. I believe that everyone in the uS and Israel, who were involved , should be tried.

Really, what is wrong with convicting ALL war criminals?

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By Shingo, January 20, 2009 at 4:45 pm Link to this comment

“Are there REALLY “levels of war crimes”? By the UN, or what??”

Actually there are.

According to the Nuremberg Principals, starting a war of aggression is the greatest of all war crimes and encompasses all other war crimes.

The US and Israel violate this one more than anyone else.

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By Shingo, January 20, 2009 at 4:43 pm Link to this comment

nefesh,

“When Ban Ki-moon says he is not only appalled but determined to act to change the mechanisms in place that allow for UN facilities to be used as Hamas launching sites, weapons-storage facilities, and general cover for Hamas terrorist activities…”

Maybe when evidence is provided that this is the case (as opposed to unverified claims by Israel who banned international journalists from entering), then maybe we can have that discussion.

Of course we know why the IDF defied the ruling of it’s own supreme court and stopped journalist entering Gaza - because the last time (ie 2006) Israel made such vaccuous claims, they were debunked by journalists on the ground.

“Mr Ban said that those responsible should be held accountable and demanded a “full investigation” through proper judiciary systems.”

You, along with Isrel’s supporters seem to have a problem with the concept of “full investigation” and proper judiciary systems.  I wonder why that is?

“When Moon says the same about the endless list of documented Hamas war crimes, many committed under the aegis of UN facilities and personnel, maybe then he won’t seem like the toothless front man for Arab and Muslim-backed voting blocs in the UN. Until then he will be ignored.”

That would be the same toothless front man for Arab and Muslim-backed voting blocs that created Israel would it not?

Of course, the UN would not be a toothless front man for Arab and Muslim-backed voting blocs if the US weren’t there to veto every resolution against Israel.

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By KDelphi, January 20, 2009 at 4:31 pm Link to this comment

How about this—the rule of law! Novel concept!!

People who commit , or instigate, war crimes should be indicted…

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By KDelphi, January 20, 2009 at 4:06 pm Link to this comment

Are there REALLY “levels of war crimes”? By the UN, or what??

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By nefesh, January 20, 2009 at 4:02 pm Link to this comment

BBC News:

UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon says he is appalled by Israeli attacks on a UN compound in Gaza after seeing the destruction for himself.

When Ban Ki-moon says he is not only appalled but determined to act to change the mechanisms in place that allow for UN facilities to be used as Hamas launching sites, weapons-storage facilities, and general cover for Hamas terrorist activities, maybe then anyone who matters will pay any attention to him.

 

Mr Ban said that those responsible should be held accountable and demanded a “full investigation” through proper judiciary systems.

When Moon says the same about the endless list of documented Hamas war crimes, many committed under the aegis of UN facilities and personnel, maybe then he won’t seem like the toothless front man for Arab and Muslim-backed voting blocs in the UN. Until then he will be ignored.

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By Shingo, January 20, 2009 at 3:46 pm Link to this comment

hedges,

If the rocket attacks on Israeli civilians are a war crime, then the siege by Israel on Gaza is infinitely worse.

As you know, not all war crimes are the same, because they are based on the scale of the crime. Israel has been commiting war crimes and breaking international law since 1948.

“*the fact that these missiles are launched from residential areas is a war crime.”

The fact that Israel has a policy of harming civilians in an even bigger war crime. Israel’s HQ offices are in the middle of residential areas.  Seeing as the murder of Arabs are ordered from these offices, is that also a war crime?

“*the fact that these Arabs have used mosques and schools and private homes to warehouse their stockpiles of imported Iranian missiles is proof of war crimes, many times over.”

That is according to Israel of course, who refused to allow international reporters into Gaza to verify if this was true or not.

“*the fact that Hamas terrorists wore civilian clothing is a war crime”

Do the Mossad, who carry out terrorist acts, commit war crimes?  Were the Stern Gang, the Irgun and Hagana, who obviously war civilian clothes commuting war crimes?  If so, then why did the heads of these terrorist gru9ps go on to become Prime Ministers fo Israel?

“Clearly a cynical human-shield tactic - a monstrous war crime against the people of Gaza.”

Human shields only work is the enemy is dissuaded from attacking.  Israel have proven time and time again, that they don’t care about civilian casualties.

You want facts nefesh?  There they are.

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By Shingo, January 20, 2009 at 3:37 pm Link to this comment

Howard,

“No instigation (rockets) by Hamas, no response by Israel.”

Well we know that’s a lie don’t we?  Firstly, the instigation has been by Israel, who have been blockading Gaza since Hamas took power.  A blockade is an act of war, so as far as instigations go, that takes he cake.

Secondly, in the summer of 2003, Hamas undertook a unilateral ceasefire, yet the kidnappings and assassinations by Israel continued.  Last but not least, in 2008, Israel killed 400 Palestiains in the West Bank,even though no rockets were fired from the West Bank, so we can safely say that instigation or no instigation, Israel has a policy of brutalizing the Palestinians.

Israel did not leave Gaza with good intentions.  it left because remaining there was financially and logistically crippling.  Sharon’s right hand man, Dov Weisglass told the world that Sharopn would suspend the peace process in formaldehyde, which he did by turning Gaza into an open air concentration camp.

Argue all you want about ‘48, but don’t blame Israel for the refusal of Pal’s and arab states to take the territory offered them at that time.

Instead they declared war on Israel and 4 arab countries invaded Israel in the war of ‘48. 

“And told the resident arabs to leave…to most likely return after the Jews were slaughtered. Some did leave and some didn’t.”

That of course is also false.  Israeli historians, Benny Morris and Illan Pape, have both documented the enthnic cleansing of 700,000 Arabs by the Irgun, the Stern Gang etc and the destruction of 369 Arabs towns. The ethnic cleansing was planned in advance and the war used as a pretext to carry it out.  Israel would never have achieved a Jewish majority without this policy.

“And the 2 state solution is dead as Hamas refused to renew the cease fire agreemnet in December”

This lie has been debunked a hundred times but you repeat it. Once again, here is the report hat debunks that lie.

Israel Rejected Hamas Ceasefire Offer in December
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=45350

Try reading it this time Howard.

In 2006, Hamas commited to a 2 state solution, and signed the Arab League offer to recognize Israel as per the 1967 borders,  Israel have refused this offer.  The reason is obvious,  It doesn’t want to return to the 1967 borders.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/04/04/mideast/index.html

In addition, Hamas offered an indefintiely truce/ceasefire with Israel, which as ususal, Israel rejected.

That is why Israel should negotiate with Hamas.  The only reason Israel do not is because they know that have military, financial and political superiority and thus, don’t believe they should be force dot give anything up.

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By Shingo, January 20, 2009 at 3:24 pm Link to this comment

Maani,

Katusha rockets are home made.  Qasssams are hardly state of the art weaponry, so they would hardly run into the millions. Of course, it could be that like Israel, Hammas don’t pay for their weapons but have them provided by sympathetic groups.

“After Israel withdrew from Gaza in September 2005 to 2006, Israel fired between 7,000 and 9,000 heavy artillery sheels into Gaza.”

Between March and May of 2006 alone, Israel fired more than 5 100 sheels into Gaza according to the Israeli newspaper Haaretz.

http://www.mg.co.za/article/2006-05-29-gazas-kids-collect-a-different-sort-of-shell
Please cite your source for this.

“Unless I am missing something, your math is off here.  Are you suggesting that the population in Gaza went from 8,000 to over 1.5 million in just the last three years?”

There is nothing wrong with your math, just your logic.  Gaza was Israeli occupied an controlled, but Arabs and Israeli settlers both lived there.  The 8000 Isareli settlers moved to the West Bank and the Arabs stayed put.

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By flow, January 20, 2009 at 12:38 pm Link to this comment

BBC News:

UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon says he is appalled by Israeli attacks on a UN compound in Gaza after seeing the destruction for himself.

Mr Ban said that those responsible should be held accountable and demanded a “full investigation” through proper judiciary systems.

He was speaking in front of the smouldering remains of the UN food warehouse destroyed by Israeli shells.

...

see video clip:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7839863.stm

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By nefesh, January 20, 2009 at 12:10 pm Link to this comment

hedges writes:

The rocket attacks on Israeli civilians are a war crime.

He should also point out that these war crimes have been repeated thousands of times over, each time a missile is lobbed into Israeli towns.

But the Arab war-crime machine doesn’t end there:

*the fact that these missiles are launched from residential areas is a war crime.

*the fact that these Arabs have used mosques and schools and private homes to warehouse their stockpiles of imported Iranian missiles is proof of war crimes, many times over.

*the fact that Hamas terrorists wore civilian clothing is a war crime - they intentionally blurred the distinction between combatants and non-combatants. Clearly a cynical human-shield tactic - a monstrous war crime against the people of Gaza.

Come on hedges, state facts, don’t preach.

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By Howard, January 20, 2009 at 8:25 am Link to this comment

RE:  Shingles

No instigation (rockets) by Hamas, no response by Israel.

Been that way since 2005, when Israel left, as we’ve known.  Any response, limited to going after those rocket sites or terrorits infiltrating is a responsive mode. Israel left gaza with good intentions, but received nothing but bombardment in return. 

Argue all you want about ‘48, but don’t blame Israel for the refusal of Pal’s and arab states to take the territory offered them at that time. Instead they declared war on Israel and 4 arab countries invaded Israel in the war of ‘48.  And told the resident arabs to leave…to most likely return after the Jews were slaughtered. Some did leave and some didn’t.

And the 2 state solution is dead as Hamas refused to renew the cease fire agreemnet in December, refuses to recognize Israel’s right to exist, and has sworn to eliminate Israel.  Even to this day. How do you or anyone negotiate with someone who is devoted to destroying you and your country. It is not rhetoric they speak; but inculcated daily in their mosquues and schools, and kindergartens.

Hamas is a danger to its people.  And the world.

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By Maani, January 20, 2009 at 7:38 am Link to this comment

Nefertiti/Shingo:

While I do not know enough to dispute your claims, there does seem to be one glaring omission.  Whether or not the “treasury” was “1 billion” in the red, how is that Hamas came up with the money to buy millions (and possible tens of millions) of dollars worth of rocket launchers and rockets?  And if they had the money to buy these, why did they not use it to better the lives of the Palestinian people?

Shingo:

“After Israel withdrew from Gaza in September 2005 to 2006, Israel fired between 7,000 and 9,000 heavy artillery sheels into Gaza.”

Please cite your source for this. 

“Of course, Israel moved out of Gaza out of self- interest as it was becomming unviable to maintain the 8000 settlers in Gaza.”

Unless I am missing something, your math is off here.  Are you suggesting that the population in Gaza went from 8,000 to over 1.5 million in just the last three years?

Peace.

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By Shingo, January 20, 2009 at 6:04 am Link to this comment

Howard

After Israel withdrew from Gaza in September 2005 to 2006, Israel fired between 7,000 and 9,000 heavy artillery sheels into Gaza. On the Palestinian side, the estimates were approximately 1,000 Kassam missilesSo we have a ratio of between seven and nine to one. 

As far as the pullout, Israel not only trasported the 8000 settlers to teh West Bank (breaching the Camp David agreement) but they blockaded Gaza and undertook siege after siege. This was the so called dissagagemenbt program dreamed up by Sharon.  .

Of course, Israel moved out of Gaza out of self interest as it was becomming unvialnbel to maintoan the 8000 settlers in Gaza.

Hamas took over in 2006 (not 2007 as you seem to believe) and Israel reponded by collectively punishing the Palestinains in Gaza for voting the wrong way.  They tightened the blockade of Gaza and as Neferititi has explained to you, the US punished any bank involved with Hamas.  Israel undertook a program of kidnapping and assasinating Hamas leaders and undertook a siege of Gaza.

No Howard, many were not killed in Israel as you seem to believe.  20 people have been killed ove the past 8 years.  Israel kills that many chidlren on an average week.

In December, Hamas offered to extend the ceasfire with Israel, but not a chance. 

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=45350

Israel, contrary to their lies (and yours), rejected the offer and contiued to violate the ceasefire by refusing to lift the blockade as per the June 2008agreement.  Hamas fired 2 rockets during Septemrber and October, meanwhile Israle deliberately provoked Hamas into responding by oirganising the raid on Novermber 4th which kileld 6 or 7 Palestianians. 

Olmert need to prove to the Isralei population that he was a tough guy after the bruising ISrale got in 2006 and the public were baying for blood, so he gave it to them.

Israel never intended to leave the West Bank, even though they agreed to do so at Camp David.  No Israeli politician would have the balls to do it.  Even Olmert said that the West Bank belonged to Israel.

Hamas could govern if Israel were not blockading Gaza and preventing Hamas from governing,  Already we are seeing more evidence of this.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1056791.html

http://news.antiwar.com/2009/01/19/gaza-reconstruction-efforts-held-hostage/

Gaza is not Egypt’s problem,  Israel created the problem in 1948 when they massared and enthnically cleased 369 Arab villages and drove the Arabs into Gaza and other territories.  Hamas have made repeated offers to recognise Israel and a two state solution, but Israel resfuse to accept it.  As they did in 1982 with the PLO (when the PLO voiced their support for a 2 state solution), Israel are punishing Hamas for their peace offensive.

You really need to come to terms with your indoctrination and brain washing.  You are dangerously ignorant.

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By thebeerdoctor, January 20, 2009 at 5:49 am Link to this comment

It would be interesting to point out that those who claim that Hamas can not govern are talking about a political entity that does even have a country. It might also be worthwhile to note that the country called Israel, could not govern or even exist in its presented bloated form, without the multi-billion-dollar welfare program afforded them by the United States government, where the vast majority of the elected representatives are happy recipients of American Israel Public Affairs Committee campaign contributions. Ideology, liberal or conservative, means nothing, as long as the money and arms continue to flow to the chosen people and their chosen spot in the desert. Religious rationalization is utilized to simply gloss over the thievery and injustice. There is nothing holy about Israel, but it does wholly own United States policy in the Middle East. Euhud Olmert even brags about it.

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By Howard, January 20, 2009 at 5:10 am Link to this comment

RE:  Shingles

For starters, there was no question of multi-millions dollars worth of buildings, farms, greenhouses, and business left that Hamas on purpose destroyed. No matter how wrong you are on that item, for starters.

Also, within weeks of Israel leaving completely in 2005, Hamas fired a large barage of rockets from gaza into Israel, injuring many. With no provocation.  Just to show you that could care less about Israel leaving except that they took it as a sign of weakness in their endeavor and announce goals to destroy Israel.

Since Hamas took over in 2007, over 3,000 rockets and mortar bombs fired from the strip struck Israel. They targeted homes, a shopping mall,schools,children playing outside and near theri homes. Many killed and much damage.

Now Israel waited and pleaded with Hamas and the world to have them stop.  Not a chance. Months passed with continued shellng from Gaza.  so how can any government not finally respond ?  Hello.!

No intigatin, no response.  Hamas finally goaded Israel to act.  Seeing how leaving gaza was a mistake, Israel now cannot be blamed for giving up more territoy.  Or will think twice about it.

Hamas cannot govern.  Egypt has to take ‘em over and help them start a conferation with them or some type of association until they clean up their culture and society in a nation building mode.  Stop wasting their energies trying to eliminate Israel.

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By Eso, January 20, 2009 at 2:41 am Link to this comment

Howard is a name of an Israeli sputnik programmed to mention Hamas everytime he sputters.

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By Shingo, January 20, 2009 at 2:11 am Link to this comment

Thank you Nefertiti for injecting some reality into Howards world.

Howard, you seem incapable of absorbing information. choosing to repeta the same mantra’s like a broken record in a vain attempt to drown out the evidence.

You are right.  Hamas can’t rule under the conditions inposed by Israel and the US.  No government could rule under such conditions. 

Hamas would probabyl be very efficient and capable at nation building, but as mentioned above, nation building is impossible under the conditions imposed on Gaza by Israel and ever more so, when Israel routinely bombs Gaza.

You suggest Hamas get off the UN dole. How about Israel get off the US dole?  it receives more aid than any country in the world. More than all of Africa combined.

No Arab country is reponsible for putting the Gazan’s into Gaza.  Israel did this in 1948, when they enthnically cleansed these people off their land. 

“Also Hamas destroyed comletely the multi-million dollar business and farms that were left by the Israelis for gazan’s continued economic benefits in 2005.”

That’s completel rubbish of course.  The Israeli settlers destroyed these businesses as they left.

“Hamas’s charter and education in schools teaches consantly that Israel has to be destroyed.  and its people.  A death cult that has to be corrected at its basic level.”

Hamas have offerd to recognize Israel and a 2 state solution.

You are a fanattic Howard.

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By prole, January 20, 2009 at 2:08 am Link to this comment

It’s not entirely true that, “The moral scum of any society rises to the surface in war”  Sometimes they take the opposite tack and sink beneath the surface and remain invisible in the face of wanton aggression. Just as there are journalistic lies of commission and lies of omission - as Hedges has noted elsewhere - so too, there can be said to be moral scum of commission and moral scum of omission. During Israel’s latest immoral assault on the civilian population of Gaza, moral scum like Olmert, Livni, Barak & Bush, Cheney, and Rice were behind the commission of the Jewish State’s crimes. But moral scum like Obama, Biden and Hillary were just as conspicuous in their omission of any criticism or protest over it. Surely these pious church-goers must recall the Biblical injunction of JC, “for whovever is not against you is for you” (Luke 9:50).  And then there are the many other moral scum in Congress like Nancy Pelosi who - “proudly”, as she herself put it on 01/09 - sponsored House Res. 34 which, “recognizimg Israel’s right to defend itself against attacks from Gaza, reaffirming the United States’ strong support for Israel”. The resolution also: “calls on all nations—(A) to condemn Hamas for deliberately embedding its fighters, leaders, and weapons in private homes, schools, mosques, hospitals, and otherwise using Palestinian civilians as human shields, while simultaneously targeting Israeli civilians; and(B) to lay blame both for the breaking of the `calm’ and for subsequent civilian casualties in Gaza precisely where blame belongs, that is, on Hamas”
Scumbag Pelosi was joined by 390 other moral scum in the House in favor of the reprehensible Resolution; another 38 moral scum, cowardly abstained or ducked out on the vote, including new Sec. of Labor, Hilda Solis. Only five brave souls dared risk the wrath of AIPAC and oppose the noxious resolution: Maxine Waters (CA-35), Dennis Kucinich (OH-10),  Ron Paul (Tx-14), Nick Rahall (WV-3),  Gwen Moore (WI-4). That’s it!  Besides the Speaker, the resolution was also co-sponsered by both the House majority leader and minority leader, proving once again there’s not a dimes worth of difference between the two corporate parties - they’re bipartisan moral scum! The same sorry spectacle was repeated in the scumhole Senate where a similar non-binding resolution was co-sponsered by Senate majority leader, Harry Reid and minority leader Mitch McConell. (passed on a voice vote, indiviual votes not recorded). When it was introduced in the Senate, Reid declaimed, “When we pass this resolution, the United States Senate will strengthen our historic bond with the state of Israel, by reaffirming Israel’s inalienable right to defend against attacks from Gaza…” He elaborated with some more choice comments on Meet the Press, where he informed the American public about Hamas resistance, “They’ve become more intense the last few months. Israelis have been killed, maimed and injured. Sometimes more than 200 a day coming into Israel. If this were going on in the United States from Vancouver, Canada, into Seattle, would we react? Course we do. We would have to…Israel, for–since 1967, controlled Gaza. They gave it to the Palestinians as a gesture of peace. And all they got are a bunch of rockets in return”  This semi-literate lunatic, believe it or not, is the majority leader of the United States Senate!  Not to be outdone, Democratic scum Senator, Robert Menendez (NJ). went even further with the ludicrous assertion, “It is Hamas that has spent its money on rockets rather than food for the hungry. And it is Hamas that would rather focus on the rhetoric that calls for the destruction of the state of Israel than on relief for their own people,”  Today, Obama Copacabana will become Moralscum-in-Chief, with a nearly unanimous bipartisan supporting cast of moral scum in the House, Senate and Cabinet. Hamas and the other resistance battlers have their work cut out for them.

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By nefertiti, January 20, 2009 at 1:55 am Link to this comment

Howard

Im sorry to say your ignorance of what goes on in Gaza shocks me . really.
Gaza is still controlled from the air , sea and land by Israel (still ) the port does not work and is under israeli control there is no airport either it was destroyed by sharon .
when Hamas won the elections , the EU and US AID Stopped , in fact the Arab AID Stopped too and Arab banks were threatened by America to defy the ban .
salaries were cut off and people worked without salaries for 2 years now . electricity and fuel was cutt off and given a drip at a time . the Gates that lock Gaza shut off too by Israel (sometimes a few trucks are allowed not always )
Gaza people worked very hard to grow vegetables and fruits and even Flowers to sell to Europe but many times they were left to rot at the Gates that israel refused to to open .

when hamas came to power , the treasury was one billion in overdraft (from the fatah thieves ) but hamas cut corners and stop the over spending everywhee to survive . they managed to survive on the zakat money of the local people and some money smuggled IN (not out as fatah did ) to help the people survive .
Hamas cleaned the chaos in Gaza , for the first time people could go to prayers at dawn without being threatned , Hamas cleaned the streets from drug dealers (connected to Mohamed dahlan ) and others but Hamas was isolated unfortunately and it could not make miracles and invent money . it needed aid first to operate .  there was no way it could have an economy under the siege imposed on it . IF it was free , it would show lots of good things and prove to America than anything done by Islamists can not automatically fail like America insist on doing . and the Dictators do not want that either . or the Muslim brohterhood in Jordan and egypt will get encouraged to prove itself . sorry for being long .

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By Fadel Abdallah, January 19, 2009 at 9:54 pm Link to this comment

An interesting piece written by a student victim of Israeli terrorism impersonating the heart and mind of Israel!
==========================================
I am Israel
By Hashem Said
The Daily - Washington State University, Feb. 25, 2002

I am Israel - I came to a land without a people for a people without a land. Those people who happened to be here, had no right to be here, and my people showed them they had to leave or die, razing 480 Palestinian villages to the ground, erasing their history.

I am Israel - some of my people committed massacres and later became Prime Ministers to represent me. In 1948, Menachem Begin was in charge of the unit that slaughtered the inhabitants of Deir Yassin, including 100 men, women, and children. In 1953, Ariel Sharon led the slaughter of the inhabitants of Qibya, and in 1982 arranged for our allies to butcher around 2,000 in the refugee camps of Sabra and Shatilla.

I am Israel - carved in 1948 out of 78% of the land of Palestine, dispossessing its inhabitants and replacing them with Jews from Europe and other parts of the world. While the natives whose families lived on this land for thousands of years are not allowed to return, Jews from all over the world are welcome to instant citizenship.

I am Israel - in 1967, I swallowed the remaining lands of Palestine - the West Bank and Gaza - and placed their inhabitants under an oppressive military rule, controlling and humiliating every aspect of their daily lives. Eventually, they should get the message that they are not welcome to stay, and join the millions of Palestinian refugees in the shanty camps of Lebanon and Jordan.

I am Israel - I have the power to control American policy. My American Israel Public Affairs Committee can make or break any politician of its choosing, and as you see, they all compete to please me. All the forces of the world are powerless against me, including the UN as I have the American veto to block any condemnation of my war crimes. As Sharon so eloquently phrased it, “We control America “.

I am Israel - I influence American mainstream media too, and you will always find the news tailored to my favor. I have invested millions of dollars into PR representation, and CNN, New York Times, and others have been doing an excellent job of promoting my propaganda. Look at other international news sources and you will see the difference.

I am Israel - and you Palestinians want to negotiate “peace!?” But you are not as smart as me; I will negotiate, but will only let you have your municipalities while I control your borders, your
water, your airspace, and anything else of importance. While we “negotiate,” I will swallow your hilltops and fill them with settlements, populated by the most extremist of my extremists, armed to the teeth. These settlements will be connected with roads you cannot use, and you will be imprisoned in your little Bantustans between them, surrounded by checkpoints in every direction.

I am Israel - with the fourth strongest army in the world, possessing nuclear weapons. How dare your children confront my oppression with stones, don’t you know my soldiers won’t hesitate to blow their heads off? In 17 months, I have killed 900 of you and injured 17,000, mostly civilians, and have the mandate to continue since the international community remains silent. Ignore, as I do, the hundreds of Israeli soldiers who are now refusing to carry out my control over your lands and people; their voices of conscience will not protect you.

I am Israel - and you want freedom? I have bullets, tanks, missiles, Apaches, and F-16’s, to obliterate you. I have placed your towns under siege, confiscated your lands, uprooted your trees, demolished your homes, and you still demand freedom? Don’t you get the message? You will never have peace or freedom, because I am Israel.

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By M.B.S.S., January 19, 2009 at 9:38 pm Link to this comment

the more i read of chris hedges the more it seems as the two of us read the conditions of the world similarly but we tend to diverge when it comes to the conditions of mans soul.

what hedges has experienced has created a darker and bleaker world than the one that i live in and the souls that surround him are much darker than those that enclose myself.

sure there is belligerence, and bombastic personalities.  there is treason, and facism, and war crimes and worship of the dollar in the interest of profit over people.  there is all of the blackness that drags mankind into the depths and darkness.

but there is a bright light in the darkness.  the irony is that the bright light that eminates from hedges own conscience is invisible to him.  there is only a rich darkness, in which evil deeds go hidden in the night.

there are bright lights and beauty in the world, and this counters the absolute depravity which exists within all of our hearts. 

someone like niebuhr says that the essence of christianity is sin.  original sin.  i would counter that someone who interprets the christ impulse as one based in judgement and violence, has missed the point entirely and we must weigh his considerations in that light.

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By azythos, January 19, 2009 at 9:36 pm Link to this comment

Rocket attacks against “Israel” a war crime?
Hardly.

“Israel” is not behind its already controversial 1948 partition borders (it never was).
It is not even behind the 1967 armistice line (that aren’t borders and have lost any meaning due to Israeli non-compliance.
The occupation by military and settlers and other acts of war against the Palestinian population is continuing uninterrupted. Meaning that the state of war is by Israel’s choosing, consciously exposing any civilian population to the consequences of war.
So launching homemade rockets against a statelet using the entire US military might may be ridiculous, but a “war crime” accusation won’t really stick.

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By Howard, January 19, 2009 at 9:35 pm Link to this comment

Hamas is blind.  Can’t rule.  Glad to see the article criticises Hamas even just a little. Goodness gracious. About time.

Hamas should get interested in nation building. Get off the UN dole. Get going on nation building instead of spending its time and monies riling up citizens of gaza to bombard Israel continuously.

Best friend in time that the gazans could have would be Israel, who would certainly be on their side since none of the arab countries who are responsible for putting them there, are helping them.  30,000 gazans worked in Israel until Hamas bombed and destroyed the crossing area.  Also Hamas destroyed comletely the multi-million dollar business and farms that were left by the Israelis for gazan’s continued economic benefits in 2005.  Imagine.

Hamas’s charter and education in schools teaches consantly that Israel has to be destroyed.  and its people.  A death cult that has to be corrected at its basic level.

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By plainsman, January 19, 2009 at 9:19 pm Link to this comment

I was already convinced about this current occupation, as are the majority of the posters here. Still, everyone in the so-called free world should watch the documentary at the website noted below:

http://www.moviesfoundonline.com/occupation_101.php

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Robert's avatar

By Robert, January 19, 2009 at 8:53 pm Link to this comment

“I’m sorry to tell you, Israel, you came on the scene too late. Genocide just doesn’t fly any more.”

A Message to Israel: Time to Stop Playing the Victim Role

01.17.2009 | THE HUFFINGTON POST
By Philip Slater

“I can understand that after centuries of persecution it’s satisfying for a Jewish state to be the aggressor for a change, but there’s a codicil that goes with that role. You don’t get to act like a victim any more. “Poor little Israel” just sounds silly when you’re the dominant power in the Middle East. When you’ve invaded several of your neighbors, bombed and defeated them in combat, occupied their land, and taken their homes away from them, it’s time to stop acting oppressed. Yes, Arab states deny your right to exist, threaten to drive you into the sea, and all the rest of their futile, helpless rhetoric. The fact is, you have the upper hand and they don’t. You have sophisticated arms and they don’t. You have nuclear weapons and they don’t. So stop pretending to be pathetic. It doesn’t play well in Peoria.

(Yes, I know, we Americans should talk—always trembling in our boots about terrorists and ‘rogue states’ and ‘evil empires’ when we have enough nukes to blow up entire continents, and spend more on arms in an hour than most of the world’s nations spend in a year. But just because we’re hypocrites and Nervous Nellies doesn’t mean you have to be).

Calling Hamas the ‘aggressor’ is undignified. The Gaza strip is little more than a large Israeli concentration camp, in which Palestinians are attacked at will, starved of food, fuel, energy—even deprived of hospital supplies. They cannot come and go freely, and have to build tunnels to smuggle in the necessities of life. It would be difficult to have any respect for them if they didn’t fire a few rockets back.

The Israel lobby has a hissy fit when anyone points out that Israel has been borrowing liberally from the Nazi playbook, but to punish a whole nation for the attacks of a few—which Israel has been doing consistently in Gaza—is a violation of international law—a law enacted in response to the Nazi practice. And please, spare us the hypocrisy—borrowed, I’m ashamed to admit, from my own government—of saying ‘every effort is made to avoid civilian casualties’. When you drop bombs on a crowded city you’re bombing civilians. Bombs don’t ask for ID cards. Bombs are civilian killers. That’s what they do. They’re designed to break the spirit of a nation by slaughtering families. They were used all through World War II by all sides for that very purpose. And that’s what they’re intended for in Gaza.

And please, Israel, try to restrain yourself from using that ridiculous argument, borrowed again from Bush (how low can you get?), that Hamas leaders “hide among civilians”, by living in their own homes. Apparently, in the thinking of Israelis, they should all run out into an uninhabited area somewhere (try to find one in Gaza), surround themselves with flares and write in the sand with a stick, “Here I am!”


http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=2540

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By colin2626262, January 19, 2009 at 8:24 pm Link to this comment

Chris,

The comment Nara52 wrote in response to your article is profound and realistic, but you should pay special attention to eileen fleming’s comment.  She’s a true Christian.  I gained more from her brief heartfelt words than an hour of reading and pondering the essay by Reinhold Niebuhr, to whose theology I can see you’re heavily indebted.

I tried to read Niebuhr some years back, but I returned the book to the library without finishing it.  Intellectual acrobatics with regard to the Gospel aren’t very convincing to me.  I understand what his basic point is.  We’re sinful.  Christianity is about love, yes, but it also is about reconciling evil with goodness.  God is the supreme good, and Jesus gave us a model, an ideal, to which we can only hope to conform through grace and redemption from our own evil natures.  Pacifism overlooks our inherent tendecies toward evil, “the will to power,” which includes collective sin in the form of totalitarian states like Nazi Germany. 

Pacifists, according to Niebuhr, are simply sentimentalists, who don’t understand real Christianity.  Pacifists don’t see the need to use violence and coercion in order to maintain the balance between good and evil in human life, and this is a result of the pacifist belief that human beings themselves are inherently good.  Niebuhr, who seems to have imbibed more of Schoepenhaur than the Gospels, is convinced that we’re all inherently evil.  Therefore, as Christians, we must be realists and go to war against the evil we see in others who are set on doing evil to ourselves, even though he thinks we ourselves have been evil from the beginning.  I can just imagine him baptising an innocent child and thinking, “I am washing the stain of sin from you, little one, with the blood of Christ.”  How perverse.   

He does, however, qualify his criticism of pacifists.  He writes, “A Truly Christian pacifism would set each heart under the judgment of God to such a degree that even the pacifist idealist would know that knowledge of the will of God is no guarantee of his ability or willingness to obey it.”  So as long as there is a person who is following God’s will, that person is justified in his or her pacifism.  The only pacifist who isn’t justified, then, is the sinner who strays from the will of God.  But since we’re all sinners, no one can claim to be a pacifist idealist.  We can only claim to preach utopian dreams mixed with self-righteousness and sentimentality.

What Niebuhr forgot was that the religion upon which his theology is based was founded by a pacifist idealist, who, according to the Gospels, was someone who, indeed, followed the will of God.  It can be done, if Thy will be done.  That’s what pacifism means to me.

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By M.B.S.S., January 19, 2009 at 8:05 pm Link to this comment

i would tend to echo nara52 on this one.

trying to find the moral high ground is a useless pursuit.  israels war crimes do not negate what hamas has done.  i do think it is impossible to separate hamas and the palestinian people as they were fairly elected.

on the idea that there is the necessity of a violent response from palestine to counter israels, i would disagree.  nonviolent measures would employ p’s strongest weapon which is international opinion.  they would be much more effective for their cause without guns and rocket launchers.

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By cyrena, January 19, 2009 at 6:54 pm Link to this comment

•  “..This is because in countries without the benefit of the Israel lobby to guide their thinking, it’s obvious to everyone that Israel and the US are in the wrong and the Palestinians and Iran are in the right. It’s also obvious that the US gets objectively nothing out of this relationship, contributing to the widespread perception that Americans are stupid and religion-addled…”
Great post Ed. That widespread perception of course is….well, legitimate.
By matti, January 19 at 1:08 pm #
“I read about Palestine and I think:
“When will we use the tools we created to solve this kind of problem to solve this problem?”
This Palestine Problem is SCREAMING for the involvement of the UN!”
You hit the bullseye here matti. The problem has been SCREAMING for the involvement of the UN for decades of course. But, for whatever the reason, the limited involvement that the UN has taken, simply hasn’t been enough.
PART of the problem is that the tools have been created, and are not being utilized, or at least enforced. A cursory examination of the UN’s previous role in this Conflict, (which I use for lack of a better term) provides a fairly extensive record of involvement,  in terms of resolutions sponsored, all eventually violated by Israel.
But, you know that, as you include that in your excellent essay.
A few weeks ago,  a contributor here, (whose name I can’t remember) posted another supurb commentary on how/why the Palestinian struggle could not be resolved via the practice of Satyagraha, because of some fundamental differences in the nature of the struggle.
I won’t even try to re-assemble his/her post from memory, (though I will try to find it, because I think it was very well done) but there were some basic fundamental differences with the Indians, if only because they were not ENTIRELY without resources of their own.

The whole principle of Satyagraha –the reforming of the oppressor rather than the defeat of the oppressor- actually HAS been practiced by several groups within the Palestinian and Israeli society for quite a long time now. They’ve been no match for the IDF though, and there’s been no reforming of the oppressor either.  And that’s why the principle doesn’t always work, even when we’re willing to give it several generations worth of martyrs.

It’s interesting because this was an important component of a conversation that Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. had with Ghandi’s son, when he was able to make that trip many years ago. He picked his brain so to speak, in trying to determine if such non-violent protest was a viable remedy when such institutionalized race hatred was at the foundation of the oppression. In other words, all oppressors are not created equally, nor do they all have the same motivations for their oppression of ‘the other’.  He didn’t know if it would be effective with the “properties” of that particular type of hatred. So, it was a gamble.

In the end, it DID work here, but it took over 40 years, and the oppressors still aren’t all the way reformed. But…they’re getting there…, as witnessed by the Ceremony we’ll engage in tomorrow, oppressed and oppressor as one. (well, maybe…that’s a tad bit rhetorical, but I’m keeping with the letter and the spirit of your example of how this can change over the generations.) Anyway, that is another example of Satyagraha, that is very, very, good news.

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By Ed Harges, January 19, 2009 at 5:59 pm Link to this comment

Pro-Israel robots try to claim thatIsrael is “moral” because it uses “restraint” are full of crabgrass.

Here is a good analysis and debunking of the phony “restraint” defense by Neve Gordon:

The fact that one could be more brutal but chooses to use restraint does not in any way entail that one is moral. The fact that the Israeli military could have razed the entire Gaza Strip, but instead destroyed only 15% of the buildings does not make its actions moral. The fact that the Israeli military could have killed thousands of Palestinian children during this campaign, and, due to restraint, killed “only” 300, does not make Operation Cast Lead ethical….

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/16/gaza-middleeast1

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By Nate in Cali, January 19, 2009 at 5:07 pm Link to this comment

What a great article Mr. Hedges.

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By Maani, January 19, 2009 at 4:42 pm Link to this comment

Nara52:

Your post should be required reading for anyone interested in pacifism and non-violent civil disobedience.  Fabulous.

Peace.

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