One historical fact is that not all the jews left
the land and dispersed in the world fleeing the
murdering Romans in the Diaspora.
Many stayed, and many of them converted to Christianity and Islam and aquired the Arabic language like the rest of the Middle East.
So, the current day Palestinian are mostly converted
jew, like the current day Egyptians are converted
ancient Egyptians who also converted to Christianity
and Islam and aquired the Arabic language and abondoned the Heroglyphic language and the old religion
So being an Arab is not an ethnicity but it is a language and a culture.
So, the current day Palestinians are not Arab invaders who are occupying Jewish land but Jews who
converted to different religions and culture.

Rachal Corrie and her group came from Evergreen college, part of the U of Washinton.  We were so impressed with her courage that we went to check it out for our daugther, who applied for admittance.

__________________________

I am familiar with that college; it perhaps can educate people to be good poets; but not about the real world.

Or educational system is basically about—creating crooks in sheeps clothing, these days.

truedigger3…

No, I am not imitating Howard, but perhaps just the reverse.  All I do is comment on the situation based upon as many facts as I can glean.  The Arab/Jew confrontation, like I said has been astir for almost 5,000 years and the current ME imbroglio started back in the 1800’s when the Zionism came into being and the Ottoman rule was still in power though in decline.  In the early days of Zionism the Jews had raised substantial funds in order to buy land in the ME and actually were able to have an audience with the Ottoman Sultan at that time.  One of the parcels they wanted was the land surrounding the Wailing Wall.  The Sultan heard them out and told them, without mincing words, that he would rather have his heart cut out then sell land to the Jews!  And that essentially set the stage for today’s confrontation.  After the Arabs agreed to a truce in 1948, an Arab diplomat said that they had a secret weapon and that weapon was time.  And my point is “time” is running out for the latter day Hebrews and the Arabs/Palestinians know that no matter what they say publicly.

Arnold Toynbee stated after the creation of the state of Israel that it would not last more than 50 years——he was probably only off by 50 years.  It is unlikely that Israel can exist as a viable state for forty more years.  It is obvious their position is weakening.  Like the Arab diplomat said, time was on their side.  Time for the Arab nations to strengthen and time for the Israeli State to weaken and lose support——that time is almost here in spite of the alleged peace initiatives.  In time Israel will cease to exist as a Jewish state and be absorbed into a one-state entity unless Armageddon is released!

Howard you have it all bass ackwards!

Its the constant Israeli incursions that lead to the rocket fire which then gives the Israelis the OK to murder Palestinians at will.

I know you will deny it but the record is clear. Go back and read up on every round of the fight and you will see Israel is the instigator the majority of the time.

Israel created the mess of the O.T. and it is now Israel’s OBLIGATION to clean it up.

No Justice, No Peace.

Its really that simple.

The treatment of Gaza is, as some here say, a very bad thing. But who is to blame for this unhappiness? Here, two crucial facts have a way of conveniently disappearing.

First, the cause of the Gazans’ ordeal is not the inevitable and measured Israeli response to an unrelenting rocket bombardment of Hamas rockets from Gaza; the cause is the bombardment, and that bombardment will continue as long as Hamas deems it essential to its war of attrition on Israel’s very existence.

The notion of a measured response needs emphasis here; any other state being forced to die the death of a thousand cuts would long ago have declared total war angainst its would-be destroyers.

Second, the ordinary citizens of Gaza are not mere “pawns” in the war of Hamas on the existence of Israel. They have been turned into human shields by the very same Hamas they elected to represent and protect them, but whose hatred of Israel’s existence they share.

The blindness is the Gazans’ tragedy. The disgrace remains Hamas’s alone.

To all blogger,

Please distinguish between zionists and Jews.
As folktruther said they are not the same. There are
many progressive Jews who really want peace and REAL
justice for the Palestinians.
So, please use commonsense and watch your tongue and
your pen otherwise you are doing disservice to the
cause of peace and are fanning the flame of hatred and tribalism.

To Blackspeare,
You are one of those zionists who is blinded by hate
and ignorance. Are you imitating Howard??!!

As I noted in comments on the article about Richard Falk:

To dust off another perfectly cromulent term from the Sixties:  asserting a false equivalence between the Goliath of the State of Israel and the David of the Palestinian people is a lame cop-out.
____________________________________

Every comments board has a “Howard” or two (or three) who can be counted on to spout the Orwellian Newspeak defending the Reich of Zion—by which I mean the political, military, and religious/cultural authorities in Israel who embrace and practice Palestinian ethnic cleansing and genocide.  I view this cabal as shadowy, but distinct from “Jews” worldwide, citizens of Israel, and even the State and government of Israel per se. 

The Reich of Zion is embedded in the State of Israel like a malignant tumor spreading over and into the heart or brain.

The “Howard"s outdo themselves, though—Howard doesn’t exactly assert a false equivalence between the sociopathic Goliath of Israel and the David of Palestine; he would have us believe that Israel is the David, and the beleaguered Palestinians the Goliath!

In your dreams, Howard.

Mendex, you have to distinguish between people and power.  Jewish POWER murdered Rachal Coorie, and also shot other members of her group who were trying to stop the bulldozing of Palestinian homes.  And Ziofascists like Howard, who identifies with Israel’s oppressive power, will lie about it.  And these lies will be repeated by Zioliberals like Inherit and Maani, which include BOTH Zionist Jews and Christians.

But there is an increasing fraction ofthe Jewish community that opposes Zionist oppression, not merely as lipservice, but actively, and don’t repeat Aipac deceit religiously, as Howard does.  And an increasing fraction of the American people as well, who are beginning to understand that Zionism has largely hijacked US foreign and domestic policy.

Rachal Corrie and her group came from Evergreen college, part of the U of Washinton.  We were so impressed with her courage that we went to check it out for our daugther, who applied for admittance.

And we are Jews, Mendez, Jews who identify with human liberation more than ethnic nationalism.  There may have been Jews in Rachal Corrie’s group.  She was murdered by a two person military bulldozer which is built especially for high visibility.  Were the Jews fighting to prevent the destruction of people’s homes also responsible for Rachel’s brutal death.  They are part of the Jewish community.

Zionism is a political movement, centered on what Ihnherit calls The Homeland.  Except for rigid and dumb Ziofacists like Howard, Zioliberals are now giving fake lipservice to opposing US-Israel oppression.  But they don’t speak for all Jews. 
There are many Jews are really and actively opposed to Zionist oppression, like Richard Falk.

Your insults and slurs against all Jews damages the anti-Zionist movement, and gives ammunition to Aipac types that to claim the world is anti-Jewish.

I’ve said it before that there can be no reconciliation between the Arabs and Israelites who have been fighting, on and off, for 5,000 years.  The only resolution will come when one side vanquishes the other.  The present day Israelis should take a lesson from their biblical ancestors that the enemy must be smitten.  They had their chance in the 1967 decisive Six Day War when the Palestinians in both Gaza and the West Bank were so frightened that they were ready to flee to neighboring Arab countries.  It was only by the intervening of a left leaning Hebrew general, by the name of Dyan, that persuaded the Arab leadership to stop the mass exodus saying that they could all live together——that may have been a fatal mistake!

You see, this is how they justify and rationalize it all.  Just like the Germans called the concentration camps, “labor camps”. They knew well enough, but claimed, to their own shame, “they didn’t know”.
Of course, the German citizens had real reason to fear speaking the truth, American Jews only risk being branded “self-hating” Jews for not participating in suppressing the truth and betraying the tribe.

Hmmm,  there are NO confiscated lands; and homes are bulldozed when they have been the home of sucide bombers or killers of civilians within Israel.

Lot better than more harsher methods that one can think of.  Acts as proven deterrent.

Get your decency upgraded

Hmmm,  there are NO confiscated lands; and homes are bulldozed when they have been the home of sucide bombers or killers of civilians within Israel.

Lot better than more harsher methods that one can think of.  Acts as proven deterrent.

Get your decency upgraded.

American Jews, even those with progressive or liberal views have been so indocrinated to support their promisedland, their tribe and only their tribe right or wrong, assuming victimhood only for themselves, while claiming the Palestinians are “pushing them into the sea” while Israel confiscates land and bulldozes Palestinian homes.
  Meanwhile as American Jews support the most criminal RightWing Israeli agenda, either in denial or deflecting resposibility, they focus on the injustices and brutality elsewhere in the world so they can claim “we didn’t know” or accuse others of being “antisemitic” for speaking the truth.

And I am filled with profound lack of respect for decency.

Yep.  Israel is the ‘victim’.  Free Israel from the government-led terrorism coming out of Gaza and outright murder from Gaza and the peoples would move forward toghether with Israel towards peace and all its attributes

Stop the missiles and rockets first.  Have Hamas make it happen as they can do and recognize Israel’s right to exist.  Not something hard to do.

Source:  Casualty estimates between 1987 and May 2003 from Israeli human rights group B’Tselem:

Palestinians:  3,650 killed
Israelis:  1,142 killed

In the 12 months ending on September 30 2002:

250 Palestinian children killed
72 Israeli children killed

Israel is the innocent victim here, huh?

Rachel Corrie was an accident; not a purposeful act by any group or gov’t. As long as you asked.

But the following were on PURPOSE:

July 2, 2008 - Elizabeth (Lili) Goren-Friedman, 54; Batsheva Unterman, 33; and Jean Relevy, 68 - all of Jerusalem - were killed and over 50 wounded in a terror attack in Jerusalem. Driving a bulldozer on Jaffa Road between the Central Bus Station and the Mahane Yehuda market, the terrorist plowed into cars and pedestrians as well as two public buses (Egged buslines 13 and 60) carrying some 50 passengers. Police shot and killed the terrorist.

July 11, 2008 - Border patrolman Lance Corporal David Chriqui, 19, of Rishon Lezion, critically wounded in a terrorist attack in the Old City of Jerusalem. He succumbed to his wounds on July 23.

October 23, 2008 - Avraham Ozeri, 86, was stabbed to death near his home in Gilo, Jerusalem, by an Arab terrorist from the Arab village of Tekoa near Bethlehem.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Palestinian+terror+since+2000/Victims+of+Palestinian+Violence+and+Terrorism+sinc.htm

So Howard, you haven’t answered the question on whether or not you are proud of what your people did to Rachel Corrie?  You proud of the fact that they have refused to apologize to her parents?

Stop the rockets and missles.  Let Jordan and Egypt care for take them over from the UN; who right now gives them millions to eat and drink and drive.

In 2007, Palestinians fired over 1,200 rockets and 600 mortar shells at Israel. As 2008 comes to a close, 2,900 rockets have so far been fired at Israel. In November alone, 148 rockets and 85 mortar shells were fired. A senior military official said, “The data from November proves that there is no lull….We cannot accept the terror organizations firing without end whenever they want to.”

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3639081,00.html

Bernie “baby” Madoff is an anti-semite!

The only way that peace will ever come to the region of Israel/Palestine is this, lay down the weapons and start talking. No preconditions, no animosity, none of this you did me wrong so I have the right to do you the
same way.
It is not the governments that will make peace, it is the people, who once fed up enough, to shove their governments aside that will be the instigators of the reign of peace.
Much as like the start of peace in Northern Ireland, the start of peace in Israel/Palestine will begin with the mothers of the sons and daughters who have died and been lost to them forever.
As to the current progrom, that the Israeli settlers are now using to do away with the Palestinians, I find it illogical and abhorrent that a people who have suffered so much at the hands of Russian, French, German, English and all other Western European nations, should do the same thing to a people in their country.  It is “SIN” to return evil for evil, an eye for an eye no longer is the axiom by
which the world lives. We, have grown beyond the principle of retribution and revenge, leaving behind the hatred that causes this inhumanity to others.
Yes, the Israelis, are committing Genocide by their actions in regards to the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. These are “WAR CRIMES,” that are punishable under the Geneva Conventions and the UN Charter on Human Rights.
Yet, the only thing blocking the world from seeing the results of the kind of activity that is being perpetrated upon the Palestinians is the US government.  It is high time that the US, stop propping up a criminal regime, the Israeli government
and give peace a chance. If forced to, the Israelis will make peace and a lasting one at that, but only if they as a government are forced to change strategies and made to speak with and listen to the Palestinians as real people.
The Human Rights abuses that are now happening in the Gaza Strip are an abomination on the state of Israel, they are without doubt SIN and cannot be logically and reasonably accounted for.
We the people, of the US, should demand an accounting of the horrific atrocities that have been done in our name, no longer should we blindly accept the governments word, that the Israeli government is our friend and only friend in the Middle East.
All the Palestinian people want is parity in policy with the US. Is this such a hard thing? We cannot long endure the kind of political suicide that is happening because of our one-sided policies towards Israel.
If and when, the government of the US listens to its people, then we will have an equitable and lasting peace in the Middle East, for then the policies of the US will be fair and equitable towards both sides of this ongoing debate and struggle.

Israel has more UN resolutions condemning it’s action that did Saddam Husein.  The United States has blocked any sanctions or concrete recriminations against Israel by the UN IN EVERY INSTANCE.  The US has used its position on the security council to make the UN powerless in regards to Israel.

Howard wrtote:
“Coupled with a large surplus of fruit and vegetables, the vast majority of people in Gaza aren’t wanting for food.”

Howard,

You lost your touch. Your lies are blatant and dumb.
So, you say, everything is ok and the blockade has
no effect.
If that is true then why your friends, the Israelis,
are doing it.
All observer who managed to see what is happening said the conditions are extremely dire and bordering on the disaster.
This is the new Warsaw getto.  Remember??!!
Who is behind the post in the globeandmail website!!?? I bet he is another bull-shit artist.

Gaza s

Although conditions in Gaza are far from ideal, many Gazans are able to get by on what the Hamas-controlled smuggling tunnels provide.
  Coupled with a large surplus of fruit and vegetables, the vast majority of people in Gaza aren’t wanting for food.
  Reports that 50% of children are suffering from malnutrition are exaggerations, says Khaled Abdel Shaafi, director of the UN Development Program. “It’s an economic crisis, a political crisis, but it’s not a humanitarian crisis. People aren’t starving,” he said.
  The market in Rafah, on the border with Egypt, is packed with products and with shoppers.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081212.wgaza12/BNStory/

Hi Cyrena,

Good to hear from you again.

You say that the issue of Gaza is a matter for the United Nations, and not the USA. Unfortunately, the US pays a lot of the UN’s bills and has a lot of pull. I don’t think the UN engages in a lot of activities without the US being at least aware of it, and often intimately involved. In Gaza, I would be surprised to learn the US does not support Israeli human rights abuses there.

I don’t view the UN as a source of good in international relations. Actually, it’s the opposite. It’s a typical invention of previous interventionist US Presidents who felt it would be a good tool to further US hegemony. Indeed, it is. 

So again, I say the whole mess is none of our business. I also don’t think it’s the UN’s business.

1 of 2
By Paolo, December 15 at 5:48 pm #

“As a libertarian, I stand firm in the belief that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is none of our business. America should quit trying to be the world’s policeman and school-marm. America does best when America has a small, non-intrusive government and people dedicated to making life better.”

~~~~

Paolo,

We know that you hold this as a basic principle as a Libertarian..the whole non-interventionist theory/practice that is. And, in so far as it involved “America” as you say, you’re point is always acknowledged.

HOWEVER…the specifics and details attached to this article, (and to this age old conflict) are NOT ABOUT the US. This conflict IS the business of the World Community, and we are a partner in that world community.

In this specific instance however, it is NOT the US interfering. (Yes, I know that is difficult to believe.) RATHER, this is the United Nations, acting on their authority as an International Institution that it is, and in accordance with the letter and the spirit of International Law, to which we (the US) are most certainly as committed as any other member state of the International Community.

So this isn’t about the US trying to police the world, or act as school marm. I know that’s hard to believe, but it saddens me that so many of us just automatically assume that the US has a place or a hand in something, just because it’s the US.

That’s the assumption that you make in your comments here, by making the irrelevant, (at least in this particular case) comment about how America does better as small and non-intrusive government. In other words, the Libertarian ideology, (even if it were a bit less difficult to figure out and actually practice) doesn’t fit in this particular collection of dots.

This is between Israel and the world community, NOT the US, regardless of how the current regime may have wedded us to Israel in its inhumane ideology and behavior.

I’ll agree that the US HAS intervened in this conflict, (and others) on behalf of Israel, even if they don’t call it that. The US gives Israel $3billion a year in foreign aid, so those dots connect to what I believe is the very ‘intervention’ that you’re referencing here. So yep, I know exactly what you’re talking about with that. Still, in this particular case, we’re not talking about the US (at least not in terms of what Richard Falk and Chris Hedges are saying) as intervening. This is the United Nations, and it is their ROLE and FUNCTION, and PURPOSE to intervene on behalf of ANY person or group who is being persecuted. That is literally and quite substantively, the entire reason for the existence of the United Nations and a legal system of International Laws to go with it.

2 of 2

So indeed it is NOT the ‘business’ of the US to address this conflict, but rather the International Institutions. That’s what and why the system was adopted to begin with, based on the atrocities of WWII in terms of the human cruelty experienced by civilians as well as combatants.

That’s what Hedges is describing here. This is the UN doing the work for which it was created, and in this case at least, there is no US involvement. This is the UN acting upon its own authority. Now I said all of that only because I have a genuine concern that we don’t always understand the difference between the United Nations and the government of the United States, which is what I’m assuming is happening here, though I could certainly be wrong.
But, I think we do it without even realizing it. Because while it’s true that the US should NOT be the world’s policeman or world school marm, there IS an institution tasked to do exactly those things, and that is the UN, in the form of the World Court, or the International Criminal Court, or any other arm of that institution; mandated to serve/provide for the successful operation of the conditions of laws and agreements.

If US and other WORLD citizens are confused about who does what here, it’s because the US has consistently undermined the authority of the UN, and the Bush II regime is certainly not the first to do it. (as an aside, Falk has been equally critical of the US intervention in the Balkans under Clinton, just because it was a violation of what had already been legally prescribed by the UN in terms of the circumstances on the ground in the region.) It is also true however, that this particular US regime has shown the MOST contempt for International Law and agreements, specifically in terms of Human Rights. Only Israel exceeds US there.

Will Pres. Elect Obama pass his first test?This is huge in my opinion if a resolution to the Isreali-Palistinian conflict is not realized and allowed to continue terrorism will increase on a scale that will stun the counter terrorist community to the point of shock and will be paralized,unable to respond.
    Pres.Elect Obama may have a plan ready for clinton to impliment as soon as he takes office.If the Isreali’s are unwilling to open Gaza and the West Bank what can he do? Other than halt the delivery of aid to Isreal how can he force Isreal to recognize Palistine
    In my opinion Isreal is the rogue state here and if the American people turn their backs on the Palistinians and continue to support the genocidal efforts of the Isreali government and military. America is going to feel the pain of our blindness to the escalated Isreali aggression.
    With the security of the U.S.‘s southern border being what it is today and over the last twenty years one can only imagine the amount of illegal material and personel that has been flowing across with the full intent being to bring catastrophic retribution to those guilty of unquestioned support for the Isreali occupation of palistinian lands.
    In the event that the Isreali government refuses to recognize Palistine,which I feel is what this situation is going to come to.Isreal has and will continue to harbour hatred for the Palistinian Arab until the American people give Isreal an ultimatum.First they must stop taking and return lands already taken from Palistinians illegaly.Isreal must form groups to help Palistinians to return thier lives back to relative normalcy.Isreal must help restore the distruction they caused to the Palistinian infrastructure.Isreal also must make restitution to those innocent civilians whose family members where killed needlessly.
    This doesn’t absolve Palistine from accepting their own responsiblity for allowing their citizens to form militant groups and strike out at Isreali civilians.I feel that if Palistinians are faced with following guidlines and bringing criminal charges against the militant factions responsible for the deaths of innocent Isreali civilians on the grounds that if they did not do these things they would not recieve any assistance from the U.S. the palistinians would hold to thier word and follow through with the peace process.
    I understand this sounds pretty simplistic but we need to start somewhere and if the Isreali’s refuse to negotiate with Palistine we pull out of Isreal taking all of our military and financial resources with us and tell Isreal your on your own from now on don’t expect any help from the U.S. military or people they will have to defend themselves agianst the entire Middle East and I don’t think they have the balls or the spine to outlast that onslaught.If they have nuclear weapons and I believe Isreal does.If they try to use them on the surrounding nations we should shoot them down if not for our own health alone.Eventually the fallout will reach the U.S. and around the world.
    Bottom line Isreal is a racist nation you cannot be a part of that nation if you do not share thier faith and religion.And it is these religous zealots that perpetuate the divide between the two groups that share this significant landscape.There is so much bad blood between these two groups that they will only respond to threat.
    If Isreal is faced with ultimate destruction at the hands of those they have oppressed for the last thirty years I think they may have a change of heart.If Isreal wants to exist they had better start getting along with it’s neighbors

prole
It was Eisenhower perhaps America’s most ‘progressive’ post-war president - who stood up to Israeli bullies,

___________________________

Interesting story; but of course there are two sides to every story.

It would be interesting to know, if Eisenhower was a tool of the Military-Industrial-Complex when he used that military strategy, or did he just renounce the MIC during his anti-militarism speech.

My guess is he was a tool of the MIC. The MIC was supported by Nazis back then—via Republican politicians being bribed with Nazi money.

“The tragedy of Gaza” is the tragedy of Gaza. It is not Israel’s tragedy, it belongs to Gaza, alone. And shared also by Palestinians in the West Bank and refugees in Lebanon & elsewhere .  The “macabre” facts of the unending Nakba are well known by now. Which, of course, is why the only conceivable palliative for Israeli state terrorism over the years, has been a near total blackout in the mainstream media in reporting it; or among opinion makers and craven politicians in ever even discussing it, let alone confronting it. And Obama & Co. are no exception. If anything, the record of the Democrats is even worse than the Republicans in aiding and abetting Israeli terrorism. It was Eisenhower perhaps America’s most ‘progressive’ post-war president - who stood up to Israeli bullies, not once but twice, effectively the last American president to do so. In 1953, Ike withheld American aid to Israel and suspended tax exemptions for contributions to zionist organizations when Israel attempted to secretly construct a water diversion plant at Banat Ya’qub for a unilateral project that would divert waters of the Jordan Valley to Israel. At about the same time Eisenhower also publically condemned the massacre in the Palestinian village of Kibya by a young Ariel Sharon and his Force 101 terrorists. Three years later in 56, Israel hatched a plot, enlisting the participation of Britain and France, to attack Egypt and re-take the Suez Canal after Nasser had nationalized it a few months earlier. Vigorous opposition by The Eisenhower Admin. along with the UN forced Britain and France to drop out of the aggression but Israel stubbornly continued occuping the Gulf of Aqaba and the Gaza Strip contrary to a UN resolution. UN Secretary-General Dag Hammarskjöld advocated sanctions against Israel for failing to comply — with the solid support of the Eisenhower Admin. Sanctions however, were strenuously opposed by the Senate majority leader, Democrat LBJ. Eisenhower stood fast on principle against LBJ and the Democrats, withholding needed American aid from Israel and in the spring of ‘57 Ben- Gurion relented and ended the Israeli occupation, although UN sanctions had been forestalled by the Democrats. LBJ, of course, went on to establish a tight bond between Israel and the Democrats. During his unlamented presidency, LBJ doubled aid to Israel, condoned Israel’s deadly attack on the USS Liberty during the ‘67 War - which was instigated by Israel - and tacitly accepted Israel’s new occupation after that war which continues down to the present day and is the cause of the current situation in Gaza. Much of the blame for Israel’s crimes against humanity can be laid at the doorstep of the Democratic Party ever since then. George W. is the first Republican president to actively court the Israel crowd, largely because he felt they cost his father re-election after his first term. Bush-the-father’s Sec. of State, James Baker was more critical of Israel than any Secretary since Dulles and gave greater emphasis to Arab involvement in the peace process. In 1990 testimony before the House Foreign Affairs committee, Baker listed the phone number of the White House switchboard and reprimanded Israel, “When you are serious about peace, call us!” The call never came, of course, and Madeline Albright never repeated the request. Bill Clinton, once referred to by Haaretz as “the last of the zionists”, was the best friend in the Oval Office Israel has had since LBJ. Up until Obama Copacabana that is, who may turn out to be the worst ever president for Palestinians. With his slavish devotion to AIPAC, his promise of $30 billion in new aid to Israel over the next ten years and his belief that Jerusalem should be the undivided capital of Israel, Obama - with the cheerful help of confirmed zionists Biden, Hillary, Emanuel and others - can probably be counted on to continue the Democrats ‘progressive’ support for Israel’s crimes against humanity.

A topic such as this will always bring out the rabid. As an American citizen I only request that our government stop giving aide to Israel, which is always military or related. At the same time, I do not wish to see our tax dollars given to fraudulent regimes such as the one in Egypt or Saudi Arabia. The military complex will always have more hardware to sell.
Greed and the worship of blood money is what makes some people to believe that the Mayan calendar IS correct.

diamond,

They use this money to kill, terrorise and invade their neighbours. Is this a good use of foreign aid? Does this make America safe? Does it make Israel safe?
_______________________

It is not Americans that support it; it is the American politicians controlled by the Military—Industrial—Congressional Complex; that want to see both the Arabs and the Jews dead.

How do you think— the A-Bomb was built? From the collective hate of those warmongers. The average US citizen is afraid of them—because they may of shot JFK,  or so the legendary rumor says, and is planted in the back of the collective unconscious of the brainwashed Americans, psyche.

Stop militarism in the US—and around the world—and peace will be in the Middle East.

The US and Israeli forces can be reduced and transformed to be non-violent; but the MIC does not want it too; because, if there was peace in the world, there would be no reason for their existence.

In other words, they hate the world, humanity and life it self.

Protest—at the Pentagon; not the White House;  the White House is powerless—there was a secret military coup, probably even before JFK was shot.
____________________

Gandhi

Non-violence is the most powerful force in the universe.

Howard writes little Israel,you could put it onto Lake Michigan and it would not be near the shoreline.Iwould like to see Israel at the bottom of Lake Michigan,but the Great Lakes don’t need another toxic problem.

As a libertarian, I stand firm in the belief that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is none of our business. America should quit trying to be the world’s policeman and school-marm. America does best when America has a small, non-intrusive government and people dedicated to making life better.

But, having said that, I have to note the bitter irony that the Jewish people are, as Hedges points out, carrying out some of the same crimes against the Palestinians as were committed against them by the Germans.

If Jews are allowed a “right of return” (instantaneous citizenship once their foot touches the soil of Israel), the Palestinians certainly have the same right. Most of the Jews granted this “right of return” came from families that had not lived in Israel in roughly twenty centuries. The Palestinians, on the other hand, have lived there more or less continuously since before the times of Moses.

If Palestinians and Jews both had full citizenship in a new state, the Palestinians would be in the majority, but the Jews would be a significant minority. Set up a republic in which the government is forbidden to establish a religion, or prohibit the free exercise thereof, and the problem could begin to be solved. There would still be the issue of Palestinian homes appropriated by Jewish settlers, but this could be handled in an orderly manner by courts of law.

But again, this is not America’s concern. Our role should be to steer clear of the whole mess. I think both Jews and Palestinians can sit together and reason out a fair settlement, if America keeps its nose out.

Howard said

The Jordanians have consistently feared the establishment of a Palestinian state because of their recognition that the Palestinians were nearly as likely to turn their violence in the direction of Amman as they were to direct it at Tel Aviv.

In fact the PLO under Arafat tried to take over Jordan in 1970 and failed. The Jordanians turned their beaudoin troops against them and drove the PLO into Lebanon , which lead to the civil war from 1975-1990 and is the main cause of the current problems in Lebanon today.

To Howard and Arius,

All I can say is that either you do not know what the
“bleep” you are talking about or just bull-shit
artists. Your posts contradicts completely the reality of the Israeli bahaviour and the plight of the Palestinian people.

To Librachist,

You ignorance is showing. I will give you the benefit
of doubt and I assume you are sincere. Please try
to understand what is really going on. You give libralism a bad name.

Look. It’s all so simple I don’t know how everyone can’t see it. America has given Israel since it became a state around four times what it’s supposed to have cost to put a man on the moon. They use this money to kill, terrorise and invade their neighbours. Is this a good use of foreign aid? Does this make America safe? Does it make Israel safe? No it doesn’t, in either case. Stop giving them the blood money. Stop it and see how quickly they make peace with the Palestinians. You are funding genocide and torture - and not only in Guantanamo Bay.

What is with all this “god” stuff??? Sure, Israel is a Jewish state (if not, it has no reason to exist—and, maybe it doesnt!), but, what is with this religious crap?

I knew that this would be a touchy subject—I came to see what people who know more than I were saying. I run into a flame war about some non-existent god!

That being said, some of this is good. I will look elsewhere for education..

Didnt the article make you feel like crying? Dont you want to question all the military aid we give Israel?

Arguing about “god” is pointless—it cannot be proven nor disproven. And, that is hardly the issue here. Is the issue itself, just too difficult, or what??

Amira Hass: Perfect!

Instead of Auschwitz

12.14.2008 | Haaretz
By Amira Hass

“The committee coordinating the struggle to free Gilad Shalit went all the way to Auschwitz where, it is reported, its members distributed 888 yellow flowers. That was in October, and we can only hope that this media gimmick will not be repeated, either because an agreement will be reached in the near future or because the organizers will understand how lacking in taste that move was.

The committee is continuing to put non-stop pressure on the government despite warnings that this is hampering the negotiations. In this way, the organizers and participants are showing a healthy lack of faith in the politicians’ promises. But the lack of faith stops when we talk about the policy of repression employed by Israel against the Palestinian population in the Gaza Strip. Here the organizers (including the kibbutz movement’s missions branch) accept the government’s approach and merely demand “more!” - more blockading of food, medicine, fuel and cash; more destruction of industry and agriculture; more homes without water. That is the logic behind the demonstrative obstruction of the border crossings initiated by the organizing committee in October. Now the committee is aiming its arrows at the families of the Palestinian prisoners. It tried to stop family visits at the Ashkelon prison and pledges to do so at other jails.

There is no doubt about it, Shalit’s confinement is cruel - the lack of certainty, lack of information and lack of continuous contact, as well as the fact that there is no external body that can visit him and inspect the conditions of his captivity. The committee is demanding “mutuality,” but it seems more like revenge. And in our naivete we thought they wanted to see Shalit freed. To that end, the committee should have done its homework, and not with Defense Minister Ehud Barak as teacher.

If it is a lack of legality we are referring to, the committee could have reminded itself and the government that it is forbidden for an occupying power to imprison in its sovereign territory people from an occupied territory. The committee heads could have checked and known that the right to regular prison visits is being withheld from tens of thousands of Palestinians (including some 1,000 Gaza families). A perusal of the information which the (Israeli) Association for the Palestinian Prisoners has would reveal to the committee’s activists that the Palestinian security prisoners do not have the right to speak regularly on the telephone with their families, even when they do not visit them for months or years.

Is this what the committee’s members think - that a little more cruelty is needed so the population of prisoners and their families will enlist in the struggle to free Gilad Shalit? Instead of that, why not listen to the Palestinians?

For the Palestinians, Shalit is not a boy who wrote a touching story. For them he is a soldier in the Armored Corps, and he and his colleagues were partners to the shelling of the civilian population. For the Palestinians, Shalit and the 11,000 Palestinian prisoners have the same status—prisoners of war.

Instead of going to Poland and Ashkelon, the heads of the committee can go to Lod and meet with Leila Bourghal, the mother of Mukhlas, one of the prisoners. His mother is almost 80 and can teach them a lot about what life is like when your rights have been constantly denied. They can learn from her about courage and maintaining human dignity and hope, even though no one in the world knows about her son.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For the rest click on URL:

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=2210

On November 29, 1947, the United Nations voted to create a Jewish state and an Arab state in Palestine.  Israel has just celebrated its 60th birthday and the Palestinians could be having one of their own if they had accepted the international community’s judgment that the just solution to the conflicting claims of Jews and Arabs in Palestine/Israel was the establishment of two states. Instead, the Arabs decided they would not accept or recognize a Jewish state in their midst and sought to destroy it. .

Few people besides historians know that the Arab states did not go to war in 1947-48 to create a Palestinian state. They were more interested in carving the territory up for themselves. Even the Palestinians expressed little enthusiasm for statehood at the time as most saw themselves more closely associated with Syria or what was then Transjordan than any independent state of Palestine.

As they did then, the Arab states do little today beyond give lip service to the idea of establishing a Palestinian state. A majority of Jordan’s population is Palestinian and it really is a Palestinian state, geographically and historically, as well as demographically. The Jordanians have consistently feared the establishment of a Palestinian state because of their recognition that the Palestinians were nearly as likely to turn their violence in the direction of Amman as they were to direct it at Tel Aviv.

BTW before you start calling poster Marxist, US Citizens that put the interest of Israel above that of the US ARE TRAITORS and SHOULD GET THE HELL TO THE KIBBUTZIM ASAP.

The same UN Resolution that created Israel called equally for the creation of a Palestinian State.  The statements of Israeli leaders and their actions since then have made it very clear that they have never intended to allow that to happen.  Only 10% of the land that was to have been Palestine remain.  More than half of Israeli Jews support return of the confiscated lands, but because of AIPAC and the Reichwing Xtian groups that want Israel returned to all of its biblical borders SO THEY CAN DIE IN THE APOCOLYPSE, we cannot have the same debate here that is an active conversation amongst Jews in Israel.

Israel began the campaign of terrorism that exist in the Israel/Palestine region.  While outside Muslim interest have inflamed the hatred, Israel has thwarted peace initiatives just as actively as any Muslim group.

The US should cut off all aid to Israel until the majority of confiscated land is returned.

Zionism is an ugly terrorist plot.  Israel has the land decreed by the UN, but Zionist, Jewish and Xtian, want the biblical borders restored.

If America claims to be fighting terrorism than we need to stop supporting one of the most active terrorist states in the mideast…Israel.

And for the my god is bigger than your god dialogue, my favorite bumbper sticker on the auto of an aquaintance that claimed to worship the Norse Pantheon:

Your God Died on a Cross.

My God Weilds a Hammer.

Anymore Questions?

By mendez

I am a follower of the baddest religion in the cosmos, the religion that all other religions and Gods bow to and my God is Mother Earth.  Mess with my religion and my God may open the crust of the earth up and swallow you whole.

__________________________

Are you a marxist? 

They generally are hostile to religions—for political reasons.

Oh, yes, Mendez, ..and the ‘Jews’ are responsible for the Civil War, WW I, WW II, and the sun that keeps coming up always in the east. Let alone the dumb tides that keep moving the water around every darn day.

Also responsible for poverty, aids, and leprosy.

Had their footprints in Rawanda, and now are backing the Iranian leadership.

And, surely, they ran General Motors into the ground.

By Spiritgirl, December 15 at 11:31 am #

“I am struck by the lack of historical knowledge put out on this page”

You will soon be labeled an anti-semite, a term I despise because it includes most Arabs and many Muslims, when I am only against the Jews who are responsible for the money politics that have created this mess and who slaughtered Rabin.  Whatever chance we had for Middle East peace is due to their greedy, lying and destruction.

By Libarchist, December 15 at 11:31 am #

By mendez

______________________

“What is your religion?”

I am a follower of the baddest religion in the cosmos, the religion that all other religions and Gods bow to and my God is Mother Earth.  Mess with my religion and my God may open the crust of the earth up and swallow you whole.

By Folktruther, December 15 at 10:58 am #

I would expect Ziofascists…

____________________________

Why in every sentence—do a group of people on here talk about zionist?

Do you belong, or work for,  some anti-zionist organization?

There is no need to insult me (calm down)...I just want a discussion.

Arius said:
“I see articles like this all the time but never the other point of view, never the other side of the story.”

This is just crazy.  There is virtually no question of Israeli intentions in any US/western press.  In fact, that is the very reason I decided to take it upon my own to try and learn the history behind this situation to begin with, as anytime there is unconditional support in the press of something, there is likely more to that story.

After spending a lot of time reading up on the past 60 years or so of this conflict, I think it’s very clear that while neither side is completely innocent, the Palestinians are quite clearly the bigger victims here.

I am struck by the lack of historical knowledge put out on this page by some of the readers.  (1) Most of the “Israeli’s” now in Palestine are European Jews, their ancestors for at least 6 or 7 (if not more) generations are located in the graves of Europe!  It was not until after the 2nd WW that a “State of Israel” was created along with the eviction of thousands of Palestinians from lands they had been on for several generations!  While I do not condone Hamas’ terrorist actions, I do try to acknowledge that in their early days, they at least tried to take care of their people: by supporting widows with an income, providing health-care for the children, etc.! 

The US is “supposed” to be the honest broker in all of this they are not (which further angers the Muslim world)!  What the US is, is the older brother of the bully on the block, and no one really wants to tell the truth, that the bullying needs to stop NOW!  Maybe if Israel dealt fairly with the Palestinians they wouldn’t be so paranoid about their own security!

The US media as a unit can not and will not tell the whole story as many of the corporations have Jews on the board and they don’t want to offend!  I thought it was funny (not haha), that when Palestine had an election and the Palestinian people voted for Hamas both Israel and the US decided that they would not deal with the new government!  So much for Israel wanting peace, they want it on their terms or nothing but to continue bombing!  The way to stop a bully is to confront him, in this case the US needs to stop sending aid to Israel - that will get their immediate attention!  Of course then the Israeli’s will want to “talk”, it is at this point that certain facts regarding their behavior need to be hammered home!  “European Jews” always want people to remember the Holocaust, well I do remember, and I also see it played out every time the Palestinian people are terrorized by the Israeli’s! 

It is past time that Israel needs to be reigned in, and made to account for the crimes that they are committing!  It is high time that Israel receives the same messages that the South Afrikkans had to learn regarding their own human rights violations - that it will not be tolerated by the international community!  What I would like to know from those that think the Palestinians are totally wrong are: (1)if you were in your home and someone came in repeatedly and violated your rights daily or you were forced to watch your children die (from stray bullets, access to medical care, malnutrition, etc.) - how long would it take you before you got angry?  How long would it be before you take up arms and fight back?  So exactly why do you believe that the Palestinian people should?!

By mendez

______________________

What is your religion?

By Libarchist, December 15 at 10:43 am #

“My God, the worlds God—the God that created the earth, and all the religions on it— Jewish, Islamic, Hindu, Christian, Buddhist etc.”

That God, the Christian/Judaic/Muslim but not the Buddhist God you ninny, is a dismal failure.  He is the one responsible for all the world’s problems, if you follow any one of the three religions.  Now my God tells me he knows your God well, especially since he became impotent.  He says your God hasn’t held any real power in thousands of years.  He says your God is a punk who is afraid to protect his own people.  I must say, empirically, it plays out.  So why would you expect me to forgo my God- the God of reality- for your weak, coward God?

Libarchist- Permit me to say-and I say this with all due respect- you are a real dingaling.  It is frightening to think that all over America, indeed the world, people like you know how to read and write and these are the opinions you arrive at.

I have a strong faith that the American people can be enlightened out of their present cluelessness.  You certainly test that faith.

I am a non-Jewish non-Muslim American citizen that is sick of my nation being a party to terrorism, whether Israel’s or W’s.

All Americans should take the time to learn the real history of this conflict and not buy the AIPAC and Reichwing xtian propaganda.

Wolfawitz, Daniel Pipes, Richard Pearl and their ilk are part and parcel of the mammoth AIPAC. Daniel Pipes tried to stifle American academic freedom on US universities’ campuses with his “Campus Watch” to spy on Americans and prevent any debate or discussion of Israel’s racist policies and its grip on US foreign policy. Here is a brief on Israel’s history and policies:
“Israel” never ever recognized the existence of the indigenous owners of Palestine: the Palestinian people.Golda Meir once said “What Palestinians?”
Israel never implemented a single UN resolution since its anomalous and questionable creation including UN 181 which created it-by devouring large chunks of the would be Palestine state in 1947, nor UN 194 of the same year which dictates the return of Palestinian refugees now multiplied into seven million who are still living in refugee camps outside Palestine for the past 60 years.
Jewish terrorist gangs such as Haganah, Palmach, Shtern and Argun used extreme violence to ethnically cleanse millions of Palestinians and destroyed over five hundred Palestinians villages to prevent their return as per UN 194-which 60 years later Israel still refuses to implement. Israel was built on and continues to survive on respectively gang and state terrorism. Even Israeli revisionist historians have uncovered and documented Israeli ethnic cleansing to establish the racist state in 1947.
No land or resources are left whatsoever for a Palestinian state: Israel occupied 78%of Arab historic Palestine in 1947/8 and 22% in 1967 (West Bank, Gaza and most importantly Jerusalem which was built by the Canaanite Arabs long before there ever were Jews on earth) AND again Israel annexed-slowly but surely by implanting settlements in full day light- over 58% of the West Bank, Gaza, and Jerusalem-leaving less than 10% of original Arab historic Palestine for a Palestinian state???  Recently AP reported that Israel grabbed 1100 hectares of Palestinian land near Jerusalem-just before the American sponsored “peace conference” a few months ago.
Even the present Israeli defense minister Yahoud Barrack once said: “If I were a Palestinian I would be a terrorist.”

Israel’s economic successes have been possible only because they have confiscated most of the fresh water in the region, then used $billions in American aid to prop up their apartheid theocracy.  We have given more than $100 billion in aid, besides billions in weapons, and more than a billion a year is moved from our economy into theirs by private American support groups.

More than half of Israeli citizens believe they should return all confiscated lands and make retribution to those 800,000 persons, Christian and Moslem alike, whom were driven off of their ancestral lands in ‘legal’ Israel.  We can’t have that discussion here because of the power wielded by AIPAC and Zionist controlled media outlets.  A majority of Israelis recognize that the Zionist instistance on ignoring the UN designated borders of Israel and creating a nation with the mythical borders of the Talmud are counter to Israeli survival and morally reprehensible.

I would expect Ziofascists like Howard to justify this mass murder of Gazans or remain silent like Sepharad.  But Zionist liberals like Inherit and Maani, who reflect the more backward elements of the Jewish population, also remain silent.  Silence gives consent.

During Sunday’s massive Hamas rally, a Hamas member dressed as kidnapped IDF soldier St.-Sgt. Gilad Shalit was led to the stage by Hamas militiamen where he pleaded for his life in Hebrew. “I miss my father, I miss my mother,” the “soldier” declared as thousands of Hamas supporters shouted, “We will never recognize Israel.” Mark Regev, spokesman for Prime Minister Olmert, called the skit “another example of [Hamas] cruelty and inhumanity.” (Jeruaslem Post)

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1228728189624&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

mendez,
Whose God would that be?

_______________________

My God, the worlds God—the God that created the earth, and all the religions on it— Jewish, Islamic, Hindu, Christian, Buddhist etc.

Man created wars; not God…he gave man a free will, he can choose peace or war.

In the beginning all had no names; all was in God, and for God—why fight over what someone calls the land?...because it has always been…and will always be Gods land.

By Libarchist, December 15 at 10:02 am #
“I agree, that is why I don’t understand why they are so upset over this. After all is said the earth belongs to God—what difference does it make what the land is called (Palestine, Israel, etc.) as long as people can live with one another and be happy.”

Whose God would that be?

@Mendez - I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. Did you miss my part about forgiveness?

Also, I don’t track the geneological efforts of Israelis - not that it matters here - they weren’t the first inhabitants of the land.

The ONLY friend the Pal’s got is Israel.  No arab country does or gives them anything, just instigates the Pal’s to eradicate Israel from the Mid East.

_____________________________

I agree, that is why I don’t understand why they are so upset over this. After all is said the earth belongs to God—what difference does it make what the land is called (Palestine, Israel, etc.) as long as people can live with one another and be happy.

I live in the US; and I can assure you Obama will be the second coming of Muhammad for them, but he will betray them, because; his only interest is war.

According to your argument, the U.S. should return our country to native populations?  Is that what history class has taught you? Do you honestly believe any Jews in Israel can trace their habitation there back before this fiasco?

By Libarchist, December 15 at 3:41 am #

Despite your false claims of being “pacifist” or “liberal” you are, in fact, to worst type of fascists.

____________________________

I’m sorry I insulted you.

If you know that I am not a liberal; or a pacifist,  then explain why?  What is liberal pacifism, in your own words?

Your decision to deny the interconnectedness of history and treat “this” fight as if it existed in a vacuum speaks volumes.

The people who live in Israeli-Palestine have lived there and been influenced by events prior to 2000 and the oldest, most influential, know people who have existed and influenced them probably as far back as 100 years. That should be obvious.

I have taken history courses, and I will gladly take more. Maybe we could take one together. It would certainly be more productive than this conversation and since it doesn’t seem to be useful to you at all, I don’t think I’ll continue - but by all means - proceed to flame this peace-loving populist if it will make you feel more righteous.

No “this” fight doesn’t go back “thousands” of years.  it goes back maybe seven years.  Israel had an option of peace but they decided to erase this people who were the only ones to allow them back in after the war.  Israel, and the Jew, are the only ones who want it all to themselves.  If you want to go back thousands of years, take a history course.  We’re dealing with children who are alive today and who are getting killed with US dollars.  Beyond that, no one who is honest cares.

The ONLY friend the Pal’s got is Israel.  No arab country does or gives them anything, just instigates the Pal’s to eradicate Israel from the Mid East.

If they returned Schalit and acted like a normal people who really wanted to co-exist with Israel things and territory could easily be worked out.

Thousands of Pal’s worked in Israel until Hamas fired on the Israeli gateways.

Their only friend is Israel.  No one else is on their side to help them.

OK - I’ll reword it and see how you feel.

If you’re going to pick sides - pick the side of the innocents and advocate for peaceful resolutions. The Palestinian suicide bombers and rocketeers and the Israeli military and the civilians who support them are all guilty of spreading this inhumanity. This is a conflict that goes back thousands of years - you can’t blame anyone alive - or even present in the last century - for starting this conflict.

Don’t get me wrong - I am not favoring the imperialist/oppressive nature of Israel - it’s horrible - but I also cannot give my support to radical organizations who preach violence as a means to acquire peace such as those behind the rocket attacks, kidnappings, suicide bombers etc…

Since when is peace, forgiveness, and compassion an audacious idea indicative of ignorance?

Our own Chris Hedges concluded in his book: War is a Force that Gives us Meaning:

“To survive as a human being is possible only through love. And, when Thanatos is ascendant, the instinct must be to reach out to those we love, to see in them all the divinity, pity, and pathos of the human. And to recognize love in the lives of others – even those with whom we are in conflict – love that is like our own. It does not mean we will avoid war or death. It does not mean that we as distinct individuals will survive. But love, in its mystery, has its own power. It alone gives us meaning that endures. It alone allows us to embrace and cherish life. Love has power both to resist in our nature what we know we must resist, and to affirm what we know we must affirm. And love, as the poets remind us, is eternal.”

Jeremy Keith Hammond, December 15 at 7:18 am #

“I think it’s pointless for us readers to really pick sides.”

I agree that is is pointless for you to pick sides or post anything, since you obviously have no clue as to what is going on or how to determine who is right and who is wrong.  Apparently, the disparate numbers alone or the fact that this is about a super power with one of the baddest militaries in the world against a hapless ragtag team of citizens who have lost everything and are sitting ducks.  Please don’t respond as it may damage your brain.

As usual, this well-documented and powerful article by Chris Hedges is a worrier-for-justice’s attempt to lighting a candle amid all the darkness brought to humanity by the forces of darkness: Israel and official-US.

The only thing I would modify to improve the article is to say “Israel’s Crimes Against Humanity;” so the words “Crime” should be “Crimes” in the plural form.

HippyPam - do you have any idea what the concept of a “hippy” is/was?  You surely are not one and your comments are antithetical to the hippie movement.

By Libarchist, December 15 at 3:41 am #

Despite your false claims of being “pacifist” or “liberal” you are, in fact, to worst type of fascists. Added to that your total ignorance about basic decency and the meaning of justice, it’s animals like you that need to be exiled from a civilized society and confined to a a locality of undesirables to be called “Liberchist.”

Isreal [and its’ government] are BIG BUDDIES with “ole bullshit” and ALL his friends….Now HE IS OUT OF POWER….Maybe WE WILL BECOME OUR GOVERNMENTS TOP PRIORITY….We need to STOP TRYING TO SUPPORT THE WORLD WITH MONEY AND GOODS/SERVICES…..

Lest those who still don’t want to admit that Mumbai was the first strike against Israeli nationals, think again.  The world is sick of terrorists and even sicker of those who sponsor them - like AIPAC and the rich US Jews who are in denial.  It won’t be long before others who have felt the heat from US paid for missiles and cluster nukes, sent by low life Israeli soldiers, follow the Mumbai lead and begin to strike in smaller venues, perhaps like those little enclaves rich Jews think are so safe.  Anti semitism will become a born again phrase when most Americans realize where the money comes from that is killing Arab children.

I think it’s pointless for us readers to really pick sides. Both are guilty of atrocities, both are victims, both have majorities that want peace, both have reasonable claims to the land. Both have people willing to blindly murder the other side, both have innocent families who pray day and night that this conflict will end.

Blaming one side over the other is not only wrong, but futile. Even if one side is the instigator and all out evil-going-bad-guy - it’s forgiveness that breeds peace, not retaliation and that is the point of Hedge’s Peace here.

I don’t believe he’s taking the side of the Palestinians by reporting on their gross suppression by the Israelis - the point is that there’s a vicious circle here and it’s merely Israel’s turn in violence.

“The violence unleashed on Palestinian children will, one day, be the violence unleashed on Israeli children.” - Hedges.

Come on, get with it.  Only terrorist countries are the ones surrounding Israel who offer not peace whatsoever and promote Hamas and Hezballah and their cruel ways to take pressure over their own repressive governments.

Little Israel, you could put it onto Lake Michigan and it would not be near the shoreline.

Let them continue their building a miracle nation both economically, socially and educational wise.

Free them from having to baby-sit Gaza. Let Egypt take them back and take care of them.  Free the UN form feeding, housing and taking care of them.  Get the Gazans off the world’s dole.

then they might be interested in self governmnet of a modern variety.

Israel is the terrorist nation all should fear.  Since they sunk the US Liberty and sent their spies to the states, they threaten every American.  We should round up all their citizens and blockade their navy and air force.  Then maybe they would figure out that the world is serious about stopping terrorists.  Oh, and AIPAC, and the rest of their little US outlets, should be imprisoned forever, along with their donor list.

How do you stop the rockets from Gaza ?  Hamas’s leaders are corrupt and cruel have sworn to destroy and eliminate Israel.  How does the world or Hedges expect Israel to negotiate with those who seek to destroy it and who DAILY SHOOT ROCKETS into Isrel !

Hamas tried to dig a tunnul into Israel to kidnap soldiers and Israel stopped it. Not an armed confrontation.  Hamas broke the uneasy truce and continues to inculcate and teach primary age kids and the entire population that Israel is evil.

Israel today released another 200 prisoners.  If Hamas would release or let the Red Cross see the single soldier they have kept for 2 years it would be a start. ya’ know, normal things that civilized people do.

Arius, December 15 at 4:05 am;

I’ll let the other posters here savage you; you’re not worth the effort.

Arius

It’s really cute how people seem to forget that Hamas is and always was a terrorists organization….

_______________________

I wrote about it some; and, I read about it in now unpublished books, about how Nazis after the war—used Nazi gold to bribe Republicans—to make the Palestinian rights a news issue.

As an a ultra-liberal American; I know that most Americans care more about their car, then they do about what goes on the Middle East.

The Military-Industrial-Congressional Complex is a topic that no one will discuss becuase of fear, so that is why they are able to get away with it.

It’s really cute how people seem to forget that Hamas is and always was a terrorists organization.

I’ve seen the reports on how many millions the arabs and other muslim nations are spending to help sell propaganda around the world about Israel. It’s been going on for years and sadly working. 

I see articles like this all the time but never the other point of view, never the other side of the story.

I’ve seen the videos of phony dead people playing dead palestinians that Israel supposedly killed.  Like a dead body of the same person in a dif place a few wks apart. Or the same woman screaming in front of her house that those darn Jews tore down her house, only to see the same woman in front of another location at another time claiming the same thing. I’ve seen staged photos where toys or dolls were intentionally set in the middle of a pic where there’s destruction and chaos.

and, i’ve seen the logs, the financial records online of the amount of money being poured into this propaganda machine. 

It’s been at least a yr since i’ve looked at any such material because i’m busy and have other details to keep up with, but since then, before then, and now, I never ever see articles reporting on the side of the issue.  Like during their various calls for peace and hold the fire, we see random bombs set off by Palestine aimed at Israel schools where children are inside. 

Gosh it’s funny we NEVER see anyone report on these random incidents.

“Israel, all along, has not been prepared to enter into diplomatic process that gives the Palestinians a viable state,” Falk said. “They [the Israelis] feel time is on their side. They feel they can create enough facts on the ground so people will come to the conclusion a viable state cannot emerge.”

____________________

As a pacifist liberal half jew; I can see no way there can be peace— by negotiating with terrorists.

I have done no research into the Middle East; but it seems to me that the Israelis, are simply adhering to the just war theory of conduct,  during war.

War is ugly so there will be bad press reports. Stop the wars (or the Palestinian terrorists) and then there will be human rights.

As a pacifist—I wish the Israelis would use the more pacifist approach to deal with the root issue of the violence.  The nonviolent way to deal with it— is evict everyone on the West Bank and Gaza. Then over a five year period, let the Palestinians return to the state of Israel, with perhaps a city called Palestine.

The US should stay out of all US military actions in the Middle East,  and the world; and Israel should accept no military support from the US.