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 The Last Days of DemocracyPosted on Aug 2, 2007
(Page 2) Harris: Why don’t we hear about this legislation? Why don’t we hear about these efforts to control the Internet, to control wireless? Is this part of the systematic effort you are talking about? Cohen: Yes, I believe that that’s the case. Just to preface this in 2007, I won the Project Censored award for my article on the corporate takeover of the Internet. And the reason why I did was because Project Censored thought that it was the most censored story of—it actually goes back to 2005 when the decision I mentioned, the Supreme Court decision, was made. It wasn’t heard at all on the mainstream. And why not? Well, part of the main reason, one of the main reasons, is that these companies really don’t want to blow their cover. I mean, you have all these large corporations having interconnected board members. I mean, they have contracts with each other, they have relationships with each other. And if they don’t want this news covered because it’s dangerous to their prosperity, it won’t be covered. That’s part of it, but the other part of it is even more unsettling. And that’s where we find the government really having an interest in this, and much has been said in the progressive media about the Project for the New American Century, PNAC, but one of the issues of PNAC that hasn’t been broached that much is the problem of the Internet and how that keys into the ideology of PNAC. Basically, what PNAC wants to do is to control the Internet. And they have been very explicit about this and a report called “Rebuilding America’s Defenses” in 2000—they specifically address this, so I think something about the Project for the New American Century, what its genesis is, before I say something about—. Harris: I think a lot of people aren’t aware of it, but are becoming, so please help them. ... Cohen: Right, the Project for the New American Century was begun around ’97 or ’98 by a bunch of individuals who ultimately showed up as the officials of the Bush administration. These people like Dick Cheney and even Scooter Libby and [Paul] Wolfowitz and [Richard] Perle and so many others who are controlling the government right now [or were controlling the government]. It even included [Donald] Rumsfeld. Scheer: Some of them should be in prison, or are in prison. Cohen: These individuals are now calling the shots for the Bush administration. So we can understand, we can assume that the ideologies espoused by the Project for the New American Century are really the perspectives of the Bush administration. Because they control the Bush administration, including the vice president. And, one of the things, the main interest of the Project for the New American Century, was really to control, to use military might, to corporatize and control the world. I mean, in just plain English. They entertained the idea of taking over Iraq, whether or not Saddam Hussein presented a threat; they were very specific. It didn’t really matter as long as they can get that area and establish a permanent base there, that’s what they wanted. One of the things regarding the Internet that they talked about was the Internet has elements in a global commerce politics and power play. And they said that “any nation,” and this is a quote, “wishing to assert itself globally must take account of this other new global commerce.” And then they went on and said it’s an invaluable tool, they said, “that could provide,” and this is a quote, “America’s military and political leaders,” let me emphasize political leaders, “an offensive,” not just a defensive, “for disabling an adversary in a decisive manner.” And then when they were talking about cyberspace that it maintains that the Defense Department must establish control and provide for the security for the Internet. Now, when you bring in the Defense Department controlling the Internet—tell me if I’m speculating here—is that a recipe for controlling the Internet? Scheer: Is this a new phenomenon with the government trying to control people? Because it seems that governments have always tried to do that, or is this Bush administration, and this time that we are in, something unique and even further than the Nazis or the communists or the Americans in the ’20s, the ’30s, the ’40s and the ’50s. Is this something that we are seeing right now that is different than the typical government control of its people? Cohen: Well, if you’re talking about, let’s say, how much control did the Clinton administration exert over the government versus the Bush administration; or if you’re comparing it with the Nazis, that’s a different story. I think there’s a strong parallel between the ways the Nazis proceeded and the way Bush is proceeding. If you look at the distinction between, say, the Clinton administration and the Bush administration, there’s also a difference. It’s to some extent a difference in degree, and in some extent, to some extent, it is a difference in kind. The different in degree is the interest in dealing with the media and engaging in quid pro quo. Certainly, the Clinton administration, which in 1996 signed into law the Telecommunications Act , which gave more control over larger markets to the media, the mainstream—these large corporations—and helped to move along this corporate consolidation. You know, these large corporations gaining, getting larger and larger and controlling more and more of the media. So, I mean, when you have this small group of individual corporations controlling the media, there’s less competition. Even though there are more stations, but, in that case, you know, I know you want to get away from the media, it’s hard to do that here. Scheer: Well, I didn’t mean to get away from the media, but I meant that in terms of having a conversation about the New American Century and things like that, I know they go hand in hand. I was talking more about Nazis, not about their brutality but their control of the media, or in this country we had the Red Scare in the ’20s and we had McCarthyism, we had the Cold War, where we used fear, we used the media, to kind of control the message. Elsewhere: . CommentsAre you a Truthdig member yet? Login now, or register with Truthdig. |
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By Leefeller, September 17, 2007 at 6:27 am #
John, Borowski
You stated, “Homosexuality is not a sin or crime” lets get this straight, (bad pun intended) only if you are not a Republican!
Report thisBy John Borowski, September 17, 2007 at 2:35 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
The Republicans (The Conservatives aka right wing) ardently supported Craig despite the fact they probably knew about his orientation. When he was exposed in the current incident, most of them disowned him. Did they want him immediately dismissed or jailed? In my opinion, homosexuality is not a sin or crime. It’s an anomaly in the dark depth of the mind that medical science is too incompetent to cure. These same Republicans (Conservatives aka right wing) were so shocked and abhorred sin so much they wanted to impeach Clinton (They spent millions of tax payers money in the failed attempt) and have McGreevy dismissed as governor of NJ immediately. (It wouldn’t surprise me if one of the Conservatives was Craig) All of you right wing hypocrites can cast the first stone if you never had oral sex like Clinton. Gov. McGreevy didn’t announce his homosexuality from the toilet bowl, but rather from the state office. I can see the common format the boiler room crowd uses. They will use snippets of a comment they dislike instead of the entire comment. This indicates they all read from the same instruction sheet. Right wing lackeys when the evils in London and Washington take down the world you will all be losers like the rest of us. To show how cunning the boiler folks are they know that Bush’s popularity is lower than whale’s poop so they disassociate from him. The Republican Conservatives (Aka right wing) passed all of his requests and ardently supported all of his actions? (Basic violations of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution) They give him thunderous applause every time he addressed them. The Republicans (The Conservatives aka right wing) voted Bush’s tax cut into law. (3 to seventeen pennies a day for the average Johnny Q and two hundred thousand forty-seven dollar tax cut for the rich. Where did they get the money, you guessed it from Social Security. They will tell Johnny Q when the time comes (Between 2010 and 2020) that sorry the Social Security is busted. Regarding the Clintons, you are not anywhere near them as a human being. The Clintons are so superior it’s ludicrous to compare. The right wing goons (Aka Republican Conservatives) broke into the office in Florida in 2004 and stopped the recount. If Do Good (Good is bad) Liberals broke into any office in the US and tried to stop a recount They would all be sitting in a jail cell with bloody heads and blood on the floor up to their ankles.
Report thisBy Skruff, September 16, 2007 at 2:00 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
#100692 by John Borowski on 9/16 at 4:35 am
“When you read articles about Hillary Clinton or any democrat on any web page, you will have the illusion that ninety percent of the people are against them. The opposite is the truth ninety percent of the people are for them.”
I buy your argument about the word liberal (liberals would be against gun control if the word was used correctly. I must say however, that the left wing has done the same thing to the word “conservative”
No true conservative can be in favor of a bush-like administration. Spending trillions in the red, involved in a unnecessary war, hobbling the Constitution… Conservatives value their rights. they also value their money.
Now to the meat of your post. You say 90% of the people favor Hillary (Obama, Edwards)? That the “vast right-wing conspiracy” is here on truth-dig talking her down? That a vote for Hill-the business-shill is a vote for “liberalism”
Friend, you need to do some extensive research. Hill&Bill;may be a comedy team, but they are definitely NOT liberal, nor conservative for that matter. They are self-serving money grubbing business shills, just exactly, like GWB.
Report thisBy John Borowski, September 16, 2007 at 4:35 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
When you read articles about Hillary Clinton or any democrat on any web page, you will have the illusion that ninety percent of the people are against them. The opposite is the truth ninety percent of the people are for them. There is a small right wing group that inundates these web pages, probably working out of the same right wing boiler room. They claim the media is Liberal oriented. This is the same media that made the word Liberal worst than coitus. They have virtual control over the media and are now working on the Internet to make the word Liberal you know what.
Report thisBy John Borowski, September 16, 2007 at 3:41 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
In my opinion, the war is lost; anyone voting is insulting his human dignity and intelligence. The Democrats won the majority only because the Republicans wanted them to. Despite the Democrats have a majority they are a castrated party that has no power to change things. With globalization, you can’t have the people in the US making fifty dollar an hour and the Far East making fifty cents an hour. If I made thig-a –majigs (Only an old timer knows what a thig-a – majig is) and was paying my workers fifty dollars an hour and my competitor was paying his workers fifty cent an hour, how could I compete with him? We can’t have ships from the fifty cent people coming here loaded to the gills and ships going back to the Far East almost empty. The only way an American company can compete with a foreign company (Not owned by the foreigners, but rather by the British or their American colony) is to go over there and feast on the cheap labor. What happens to the decent paying jobs in America? They will all vanish. What will the Americans do for income? The right-wing Republicans will have to kick the asses of the immigrants out of the country that have dead-end jobs with no future and give them to the white Americans. (They are already working on it)
Report thisBy S.A. BROWN, September 15, 2007 at 9:45 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Elliot Cohen’s comments on the corporate press are right on target. A really free, unimpeded press is essential for a truly functioning democracy; this is crucially important, and the United States simply does not have it. In most cases we cannot blame the journalists at the writing level for failure to discuss relevant issues without pulling their punches. I’m not sure we can blame the editors most of the time either; it is the owners who are mainly at fault, and as Cohen says, their prime concern is the bottom line.
Report thisCohen makes no mention here of another very significant factor—commercial advertising. This is a pernicious influence, in that to a considerable degree advertisers can censor what is reported. How, for example, could a reviewer really run down a new car the way advertising-free Consumer Reports does and still hope to get advertisements from its maker? The threat of advertising boycotts can be a major inhibitor of free political comment as well, especially in certain areas. This is without doubt a major impediment to the free disussion that is the lifeblood of a true democracy. The lack of a mainstream national publicly operated, advertising-free news medium, as in Britain and Canada, for example, contributes in a big way to the problem.
By Skruff, September 15, 2007 at 5:10 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
100250 by Nitro on 9/13 at 2:34 pm
“… maybe you ought to check out the article on Carl Bernsteins interview w/Ms. Hillary’s political career since 1968, at the Truthdig home page. It was really hard for me to tell which side of the coin she’s been on since her initiation to politics.”
Been to bernstein’s article, but even further that that. Have researched Hill-the-business-shill and have found which side of the coin she’s been on since her initiation to politics;
She is head of the India Caucus, and a proponent of expanding the H-1b visa program, so that Indian companies doing business in the United States can hire more workers from India… The reason these companies wish to do this, is they can get immigrant Indians to work for an average of $12,000 less per year than US workers for doing the same job in the same city.
As a member of Walmart’s board of directors, she never suggested that that company pay workers a living wage, nor did she push for Walmart sponsored health care for employees. For business reasons, Walmart considers workers to be full-time if they work 28 hours a week. Do the math at 2 dollars above today’s minimum wage X 28 hours might just pay for a small apartment in some mid-size cities. This leaves taxpayers to pick-up the cost of food, health care, and transportation. Walmarts merchandise isn’t so cheap when that scenario is factored.
The business-shill also contends (on the record) that among the 300 million US citizens there are not enough skilled workers to fill Microsoft’s needs. (maybe because Bill Gates has deep fund raising pockets) (remember he can get these H-1b workers cheap!)
On a personal note she also lobbied her fat, hamburger-munching spouse to pardon the FALN terrorists who (in the mid Seventies) planted a bomb which killed a security guard in my father’s office building. They also bombed 65 other sites in and around New York killing people, and destroying property.
No, I’m done discussing Pandering Hill! I would vote for ANYONE other than her.
Report thisBy 911truthdotorg, September 14, 2007 at 6:59 pm #
The monster bush crime family got their game plan from their Nazi masters. This is how they’ve gotten away with 9/11, Iraq, next, Iran and ultimately, martial law and their New World Order. Like the Nazi’s, they WILL FAIL!
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” - Joseph Goebbels
Report thisBy Nitro, September 13, 2007 at 2:34 pm #
Lots of good comments here, and a really good article by Mr. Cohen. The Last Days of Democracy, Liberty, or Freedom would be good labels.
Rich in Montana, good, no, excellent write.
1drees, where is Montebello located ? I have an excellent documentary-movie to view if anyone wishes to know the Truth, and nothing but the Truth about all this shit. It will be listed at the end.
Ken Mitchell, well put !
Skruff, maybe you ought to check out the article on Carl Bernsteins interview w/Ms. Hillary’s political career since 1968, at the Truthdig home page. It was really hard for me to tell which side of the coin she’s been on since her initiation to politics.
And finally, 911truthdotorg… If you’d go to the link at the bottom here, pop some corn and check it out, you’ll find your state really won’t need the new drivers licenses they want to spend 4 Mill. $’s on to just put together ?!~
After the North American Union and the new Amero Dollar takes place, here sooner than anyone knows, there won’t be any northern or southern borders to worry about. All just 1 big happy bunch of North Americans. Won’t that just be peachy ? Oh, and don’t forget to buy one’s copy of the Constitution. That’s about out the door as well.
Well anyway,
To A Better Day ...
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com
Report thisBy Rich in Montana, September 13, 2007 at 9:31 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Though I agree with most of the discussion comments, there’s nothing really new, to me anyway - maybe for others. But the rise of human insanity has certainly got my attention. Nothing more I desire than to understand it all, and see it resolved.
My issue is simple - we’re all caught up in a human-made quagmire, individually and societally, from which we can’t seem to break free and really see clearly what’s what. “Something’s wrong, they did this, I’m a victim, blah, blah, blah.” Some say “take action.” What action? Don’t they mean “reaction”, which just further perpetuates the whole mess? The idea of fighting the “bad” people, revolting, insurging, is not transcendent. It just perpetuates the same song into another verse. And round and round we go…
Friends, each of us has an “ego” problem, from about 2 years old onward. All fear, greed, loneliness, selfishness, defensiveness, arrogance, violence, etc., etc., stems from this single delusion: that I am a separate, autonomous person, on my own and out for myself– allsupported by one story after another that I make up and believe. This is what needs deconstructing, not other people, not political/ideological/economic systems. Just deconstruct your own belief system centered in the imagined idea that I am a separate person. Just see it and it deconstructs itself. Do this, then see what’s what, then live and act from a wholly different place.
Read Eckhart Tolle’s “A New Earth.” Great insight into the root cause of human insanity and confusion. Byron Katie is another one who helps undo the primal human mistake. And there are others, more all the time it seems. Pick the one that resonates. Regardless, they only point, each must find out alone.
Be well and go in peace!
Report thisBy Ken Mitchell, September 9, 2007 at 4:35 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
It should read “Last days of freedom”.
As Ben Franklin put it,
“Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch.”
“Freedom is one well armed sheep contesting the results”.
Report thisBy Malcolm Martin, September 1, 2007 at 8:58 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
A US attack on Iran now appears imminent. Multiple sources are providing evidence to this effect.
Our bourgeois democracy, which has been narrowing in recent years will be shut down completely under the pressures of an expanding war in the Middle East and the deep economic crisis which is just around the corner. People who still wonder if Hillary or Obama can become our next president, who still tilt at windmills for Ron Paul, who wonder if scandals have crippled GOP prospects for 2008 have to be among the most pollyannish group in history. Elections will never again decide matters of substance in the United States of America.
There is only one discussion worth having now with the little time that’s left for such things. People like myself are certainly known to the government and will be carted away to the camps when the crackdown comes but other potential rebels would benefit from the collective wisdom on the question: What does an effective insurgency look like?
There are many elements to the question ranging from the ideological to the theoretical to the practical. Like, how do we communicate when the cell phones go dead as they did the other day in Bangladesh and the “world wide web” is shut down in favor of the parallel military-industrial interNet?
Report thisBy 911truthdotorg, September 1, 2007 at 2:01 pm #
Our pussocrat governor sold us out.....
Super IDs for Arizona in works
Report thisHomeland Security wants driver’s license that serves as passport
Sean Holstege
The Arizona Republic
Aug. 25, 2007 12:00 AM
Arizona could be the first state along the Mexican border and one of the first
in the country to develop a driver’s license secure enough to be used in lieu of
a passport at a port of entry.
The U.S. Department of Homeland Security announced an agreement Friday with
Arizona to use new, more-expensive, state-issued licenses as a valid ID for
entering the country.
New U.S. travel restrictions with stricter documentation requirements take
effect next year for the Western Hemisphere.
Creating tamper-proof IDs is critical in Arizona. Nearly 12 million pedestrians
and 9.5 million vehicles passed through Arizona’s six controlled international
border crossings last year.
At those ports of entry, customs agents have to review more than 8,000 valid
forms of identification.
Arizona issued nearly 1.3 million driver’s licenses last year.
Gov. Janet Napolitano’s office thinks the new license, still only a concept, may
cost $4 million to develop and could be paid for by an increase in fees.
A license now costs $10 to $25, depending on the age of the applicant. Getting a
more-secure license would be voluntary.
Job-seekers could use the new driver’s license to prove work eligibility under
the state’s tough new employer-sanctions law and to avoid prosecution under the
recently announced federal crackdown on hiring undocumented workers.
Washington and Vermont already have government approval to develop a secure
driver’s license that can be used for international travel in the Americas.
Vermont pushed for approval after a rush on passports created a backlog.
Starting Jan. 31, U.S. citizens will need a valid government-issued ID and proof
of citizenship to enter the country.
The Arizona Legislature must approve development of the new licenses, which
Homeland Security said could satisfy the requirements of the controversial Real
ID Act.
The act was written in response to a key recommendation of the 9/11 Commission,
because all but one of the Sept. 11, 2001, hijackers used fake identities to
travel.
By law, every state must issue tamper-proof IDs by 2010. Rules are expected by
the end of the year.
Nationally, since 2005, customs officials have seized 90,000 fraudulent
documents and stopped 60,000 people making false citizenship claims at the
borders.
Nonetheless, 16 states have passed laws opposing compliance with the Real ID
Act.
Arizona is not among them, but earlier this year, Napolitano testified in
Washington, D.C., that costs of compliance would cripple state budgets.
By G.Anderson, August 28, 2007 at 7:07 am #
Truth, can be very bad for business. It brings up too many questions about the failure of corporate America. It makes coroporate leaders uncomfortable, that they might lose profitability.
Lies are much easier to sell because they are comforting, and they are much harder to argue against, because it’s practically impossible to reason with a fantasy.
Those in charge of America have a “new Vision” of what our country should be. It’s a country that is run on sound managment principals, by MBA’s. One in which there is just about as much freedom as there is in a corporation.
Globalism is the new ideology under which all others will be subservient. Our freedoms will be managed just like everything else. We will be taught to accept this and eventually to even feel proud of the fact that our small country is a part of something much larger than itself.
As long as we can go shopping, and the store shelves are filled with all sorts of things we don’t really need, we’ll be ok with it.
Report thisBy 1drees, August 22, 2007 at 12:06 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
With the signing of the North American Union papers today in Montebello, all i can presume is that BIG CHANGES ARE AFOOT, but lets wait and see them unfold coz they neer asked anybody about it all so its stupid to expect much from what you dont even know coz they never even bothered to ask about it. I mean if they been hidingit so far, then most probablyits nothing at all good.
Report thisBy KYJurisDoctor, August 17, 2007 at 7:41 am #
It will be our collective faults for sitting idly by while it happens!
http://OsiSpeaks.com or http://OsiSpeaks.org
Report thisBy Douglas Chalmers, August 14, 2007 at 11:12 am #
#94765 by cyrena on 8/14 at 12:45 am: “.........Meantime, I wasn’t offering any legal services myself. My field is more on US constitutional law and International Law, so I rarely have “single” clients. No, more than anything, I just try to diminish the stereotype of all lawyers as crooked, and particularly now, as we watch so helplessly as the Constitution as we’ve all come to love so passionately, has been destroyed. It’s definitely put that field of academics in a most depressed mentality........ So, that was my only point in the additional reminder that there are actually still a few left. And, I like to believe that we do good work, even if the people who are assisted by it, don’t even realize that they’re being helped. Some will figure it out at some point, and others never will.....” ------------>
Ha ha, cyrena, I gave you a hard time about lawyers, eh? And I want to hire one as well. You intuited it well again but that is something I have to deal with myself. I was not ‘asking’ you (such a typical lawyer’s answer!) - I wouldn’t be so presumptious. It was about a will that my side of the family are contesting and already I’ve seen how some in the legal profession are conceitedly jealous that anyone should gain anything through the courts. Weird!
Didn’t John Edwards make his ‘fortune’ from litigation law, though? That’s as dubious a game as it is possible to conjure up and still be legal. “No win, no fee” but, wow, what a fee when they do win. Class action, mass tort or “bet the company” cases have risks but I’ve seen how small the costs are in comparison with the winnings of a successful settlement. It might cost a few $million up front in laywers’ salaries, etc etc, for a couple of years but then they get ten times that back at least. They only have to win one in three cases to be way ahead.
I understand that you are not in the appropriate jurisdiction anyway for what I have to deal with although the beneficiary I am opposing is in LA - my mother re-made her will when in a disgruntled state and left everything to a church there (trying to buy her way into heaven, ha ha!). As she died in another country and the will was made there, it complicates things as the case has to be heard there.
I understand what you mean about some lawyers who “do good work, even if the people who are assisted by it don’t even realize that they’re being helped...”, though. I know some do unpaid work for ‘pro bono clients’ but, more recently, I have also seen how law firms exploit their junior staff by expecting them to work additional unpaid hours doing that merely so that the firm gets the boost to their reputation.
Sad about US constitutional law when there is a government which wants to test just how far they can go in repudiating it piece by piece. The government has an almost endless resource in hiring teams of lawyers to help them do that if they wish. Its the wrong attitude, though.
But that is also what the US trade administration has been doing (and the Europeans) for a while in WTO and other regional negotiations. Tearing up what is fair for others so that they can tilt the playing field more to their own advantage. Then they give a little back to extort even further compliance in foreign affairs. Buy our Joint Strike fighter aircraft - or else!
For a presidential candidate to promise that they will repudiate NAFTA or the WTO is ludicrous, though (Kucinich). Can you imagine the world without any trade agreements? Yet they blithely say this and people naively lap it up because that is what they think they want to hear, duh. That’s not the way to get people more jobs.
Report thisBy Leefeller, August 14, 2007 at 7:44 am #
This article should be titled the last days of Liberty not Democracy!
We will always be sold down the road to the highest bidder, change is the only hope, people running for president who seem not to be bed partners with special interests are Mike Gravel, and Dennis Kucinich.
We need people in office who believe in the Constitution and not the dollar.
Report thisBy Skruff, August 14, 2007 at 6:29 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
“Get over it, eh, Skruff. Hillary has had to arduously rebuild her career and remake her image over the years as a senator and she has done well. Add that to her previous knowledge and experience and she is still the best and “most exerienced and most qualified person” for the job. Your problem is simply that she is not the best “man” for the job, duh!”
Your lack of education is showing again. Although I am convinced your assessment of Hill-the-business-shill is incorrect, as well as your assessment that there are not enough qualified workers for Microsoft among the 300 million US citizens, I choose to address your personal attack.
You contend that I am opposed to the business-shill because she is a woman;
Lets examine that;
I have identified myself as a dissatisfied New England Republican. Although most folks seem to believe that the Southern Baptist brand of Republicans is the total, that is untrue. Here in Maine we have a fine tradition of fiscally conservative socially liberal Republicans. You may have heard of Margaret Chase Smith the first woman Senator? You may not be aware of this, but Maine is one of two states (Cailfornia being the other) without a male Senator. both our Senators are Republican, although Maine is a blue state.
I have voted for Susan Collins, and Olympia Snowe and plan to vote for Collins again in 2008! She is a fine competant Senator, and far more qualified than the business-shill. Olympia Snowe is a three term Senator, and before that a five term represenative, If who she is married to qualifies her further (as you seem to contend with your candidate) The man is Jock McKernan, former two term Governor of Maine, and head of the New England Economic Project.
Sort of upstages a one-term senator-lawyer who near as I can determine has not had a single success since her ill-considered health-care initiative went down in flames.
No, it’s not her gender which bothers me.
You realy ought to get that “DUH” fixed. it detracts from your message.
Report thisBy cyrena, August 14, 2007 at 12:45 am #
#94381 by Douglas Chalmers on 8/12 at 8:07 pm
Yes indeed Douglas, I DO care, and I did mean that they are BOTH attorneys, and that they have been for a long time. Having studied them both, I’m well aware that they are both intelligent, but I do believe that Bill’s is a bit broader.
And yes, she does have the experience. And, I would have been fine with her, in place of what we have, had she been able to follow directly behind her husband, but there’s no way the US would have been ready for that, and it was wise for her to get the time in the Senate.
But, that was then, and this is now, and the problems that we’re facing now cannot be resolved by the status quo, and that’s what she is. If we were in better times, it wouldn’t make a difference.
But, not now. I don’t see her as capable of addressing the systemic problems of the poor or the rapidly diminishing middle class. So, I have some complaints about her, but they are not dogmatic in the sense that I would have to leave the country if she were elected. And, it could turn out that I have to vote for her, if she does indeed get the democratic nomination. Clearly she would be a far lesser evil than ANY republican running now.
So, we’ll see how it works out, but I admit she’s not my first choice. And, we will not see any change in the empire-buiding or the forced spread of “US interests” throughout the world, which is of course the reason that we have so many of the problems that we do now...trying to rule the world. I know that Hillary will not change any part of that. She’s as much a part of that thinking as all the others, and it’s the very reason that empires fall.
Meantime, I wasn’t offering any legal services myself. My field is more on US constitutional law and International Law, so I rarely have “single” clients. No, more than anything, I just try to diminish the stereotype of all lawyers as crooked, and particularly now, as we watch so helplessly as the Constitution as we’ve all come to love so passionately, has been destroyed. It’s definitely put that field of academics in a most depressed mentality. Really.
So, that was my only point in the additional reminder that there are actually still a few left. And, I like to believe that we do good work, even if the people who are assisted by it, don’t even realize that they’re being helped. Some will figure it out at some point, and others never will. That’s the way of the world.
And, it’s OK, as long as it’s on a self-adjusting track.
Report thisBy Douglas Chalmers, August 13, 2007 at 11:30 pm #
#94465 by Skruff on 8/13 at 5:39 am: “...Hill-the-business-shill is a lobbiest for India, and a sponsor to provide unlimited H1-B visas so Indian firms can locate cheaper labor from India here....”
You (and others like you) seem to want people to vote Republican just because Hillary is not a perfect person in your dishonestly perfect personal fantasy world. Believe me, it won’t hurt to vote for the lesser evil instead of the evil you are used to. That’s the democratic system.....
As far as your nonsense about “cheaper labor from India”, though, that relates to high-priced computer program designer talent and is what keeps firms like Microsoft afloat in the market. Bush’s Neocon policies on job migration changed the face of international computing forever and software firms in the US struggled or contracted their work out overseas (in India) anyway - and for a cheaper price! You are really stupid, Skruff.....
Do you really think that blaming Hillary for all of Bill’s mistakes and shortcomings is a smart way of choosing a candidate? I guess you must think that she was also supporting him while he was screwing Monica under the table...... How many other candidates have a decade’s experience on the inside in the White House???
Get over it, eh, Skruff. Hillary has had to arduously rebuild her career and remake her image over the years as a senator and she has done well. Add that to her previous knowledge and experience and she is still the best and “most exerienced and most qualified person” for the job. Your problem is simply that she is not the best “man” for the job, duh!
Report thisBy Skruff, August 13, 2007 at 5:39 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
“I wouldn’t give anything for John Edwards, though - he’s just another snake-in-the-grass! They (he and others like him) make all the noises you want to hear and then will proceed to do whatever their masters tell them if they get elected.”
Let me see;
Hill-the-business-shill is a lobbiest for India, and a sponsor to provide unlimited H1-B visas so Indian firms can locate cheaper labor from India here.
She urged her husband (at the end of his presidency) to Pardon members of the FALN who had committed no fewer than 85 acts of Terror in and around New York City, including the murder of a security guard at the Mobil Oil Building, and the Murder of four others at Fraunces Tavern. She did this to gain a few hispanic votes in her run for the New York Senate seat she now holds.
She talks about the lower-middle class, pretending to be conserned about their wel-being, BUT as a board member for Walmart, she never stood up for the workers; Wal-Mart workers make an average of $3 per hour less than union supermarket jobs, $2 per hour less than all supermarket jobs, and $1 per hour less than the average retail wage. An average Wal-Mart employee makes about $11,700 a year (working 30 hour weeks which is the national average in discount stores) � nearly $2,000 below the poverty line for a single mother with two children. A 40-hour week--which most Wal-Mart employees don’t work--would figure out to $15,000 a year, which is the government’s poverty level for a family of 4.
Even with the above knowledge she stood by while her husband cut federal aid to these same workers.
I could go on about her work for Tyson Chicken, her poor relations at the Rose Law Firm, and her endless talking one-way while walking another, but why bother.
I agree with you fully about John Edwards, but Hill-the-shill belongs in the same group. After all, they wer DLC buddies before this primary season.
Report thisBy Douglas Chalmers, August 12, 2007 at 8:07 pm #
#94194 by cyrena on 8/12 at 5:12 am: “...Ok Doug...watch it. You never know when you might need an honest attorney. There are a few still in existence you know...... Meantime, having lawyers in office is not a bad thing. If you think about it, Clinton was an attorney, in addition to being a highly intellecutual person. (He’s really quite smart)....”
You mean Clinton IS an attorney ......and SHE’S really quite smart “in addition to being a highly intellectual person”, don’t you, cyrena? After all, she was a lawyer too and on an impeachment team. Still, I’m giving her the benefit of the doubt and my tacit support. By the way, its “Hillary + Bill”, now, too.......
I wouldn’t give anything for John Edwards, though - he’s just another snake-in-the-grass! They (he and others like him) make all the noises you want to hear and then will proceed to do whatever their masters tell them if they get elected.
As far as needing “an honest attorney”, yes, you have indeed intuited that and I am searching ......and searching. For a small matter, I had cost estimates ranging from $5,000 to $15,000 .....and a number of lies, so far. Even the lawyer at their local law professional association was a problem, duh!
As far as this topic is concerned, though, lawyers and the legal/judicial profession have ensured that we are now in “the last days of democracy”. That is the outcome of their continued pernicious existence......
Report thisBy Skruff, August 12, 2007 at 2:59 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
94302 by ardee on 8/12 at 2:13 pm
“I havent even noted that the idea that Betsy Ross made the original flag is an urban myth..until now, she didnt. You could look it up.”
No not an “urban Myth” until you can tell folks who did in fact made the flag. I agree she may not have made it, but there are no absloutes here yet. By-The-Way, if we are going to be exact, stop calling her Betsy Ross, she was Elizebeth Claypool!
Report thisBy cyrena, August 12, 2007 at 2:53 pm #
I havent even noted that the idea that Betsy Ross made the original flag is an urban myth..until now, she didnt. You could look it up.
*******************
Ah...I didn’t know that. (that it was an urban myth about Betsy and the flag). But, I’m gonna take your word for it, because I believe you, and one day I might get around to checking it out. (I admit it’s not that important.
.
As for Chong, I AM relieved. I guess he learned his “free enterprise” lesson the hard way. He should have either just kept his invention to himself, or got a front person to operate a shell enterprise under a fake name. Like the Big Guys do.
Meantime though, this might be a good time to go ahead and ram through whatever needs to be done to make it all legal. I mean, if the lawmakers can legalize torture, and legalize spying, and legalize wholesale slaughter, you’d think a litte pot wouldn’t be all that big of a deal.
Then again, it IS the US’s largest cash crop in the GDP. So, politics must be holding that up, ya think?
Report thisBy ardee, August 12, 2007 at 2:13 pm #
Chong is now a free man, he was originally jailed for making some item or other used in the smoking of marijuana and marketing same thus promoting an illegality. And Gonzales and Libby remain free, go figure,huh!
I havent even noted that the idea that Betsy Ross made the original flag is an urban myth..until now, she didnt. You could look it up.
Report thisBy cyrena, August 12, 2007 at 10:22 am #
#94211 by ardee on 8/12 at 7:46 am
Ardee,
You caught me on this one. I was semi-fibbing about not knowing Cheeh and Chong. Actually, I DO remember those hysterical movies, (uh...at least sort of
) but I admit I haven’t kept track since then. (and we know how long ago that was).
So, I appreciate the update. I never knew that one was from Marin County though. And why is poor Chong in jail? Haven’t they legalized marijuana up there yet?
Maybe we should get Nancy on it. That could be her saving grace.
Report thisBy ardee, August 12, 2007 at 7:46 am #
Totally irelevent response to Cyrena’s astonishing :smiley:lack of knowledge:
It apparently pissed him off, so he responded by saying that I was a ghost writer for Cheech and Chong (sic?) but I don’t know who they are.
Chech Marin, who oddly enough lives in Marin County north of SF, and Thomas Chong, recent resident of a jail somewhere and father of Rae Dawn Chong, minor screen actress and object of some of my fantasies (never mind) have writtten and starred in a series of movies both hysterical and supportive of the legalisation of Marijuana (thus explaining the jailing of Thom Chong ). In addition Marin costarred in an illfated detective series on the boob tube with a former neighbor of mine, Don Johnson.
Report thisBy cyrena, August 12, 2007 at 5:12 am #
#94190 by Douglas Chalmers on 8/12 at 4:24 am
..."This is what lawyers do, 911td. Don’t vote for them!"…
Ok Doug...watch it. You never know when you might need an honest attorney.
There are a few still in existence you know.
Meantime, having lawyers in office is not a bad thing. If you think about it, Clinton was an attorney, in addition to being a highly intellecutual person. (He’s really quite smart). Now, that’s not to say that I approved of everything he did, and I remain MOST perturbed by his NAFTA stuff. Still, it help for elected officials to know the law, and we’re discovering that too many of them .... DO NOT.
Meantime, none of the current “elected” officials of the Executive branch are lawyers, and neither bush or cheney has a lick of legal knowledge, and neither one of them has EVER (correctly) quoted the Constitution. They have special assistants though, that have managed to writesome stuff that will make ones hair stand straight up, and then walk right off.
Report thisBy Douglas Chalmers, August 12, 2007 at 4:24 am #
#93978 by 911truthdotorg on 8/11 at 9:22 am: “…
When asked by Barbara Walters on the night of September 11, 2001 if the 9/11
attacks were carried out by forces within the U.S., 2008 ... all » presidential candidate and then senate intelligence committee member John Edwards becomes evasive and refuses to answer the question...”
This is what lawyers do, 911td. Don’t vote for them!
Report thisBy cyrena, August 12, 2007 at 4:11 am #
#94142 by Leefeller on 8/11 at 9:34 pm
..."You are correct Marshall was annoying, I figure he was Chaney in drag."…
Leefeller,
I already suggested the same a few months ago. Specifically, I accused Marshall of being a “ghost writer” for cheney.
It apparently pissed him off, so he responded by saying that I was a ghost writer for Cheech and Chong (sic?) but I don’t know who they are.
Report thisBy Leefeller, August 11, 2007 at 9:34 pm #
#93945 by ardee
“If all the economists were laid end to end they couldn’t reach a conclusion.” George Bernard Shaw” And they call economics a science? One could say the same for politics and religions. Not sure what the the ponzi scheme is, may just be another name for fascism. Our government has concluded to mate with big business, hence the peoples loss. Liberty and our Constitutional rights diminished, hidden under a blanket of apathy.
You are correct Marshall was annoying, I figure he was Chaney in drag.
When we have a White House full of coward hawks, look out for the ones that send you from behind to war for they will reap the benefits of your life and loss. SIC. cannot remember where I heard that before.
Report thisBy 911truthdotorg, August 11, 2007 at 9:22 am #
When asked by Barbara Walters on the night of September 11, 2001 if the 9/11
Report thisattacks were carried out by forces within the U.S., 2008 ... all » presidential
candidate and then senate intelligence committee member John Edwards becomes
evasive and refuses to answer the question, after having spoken to CIA director
George Tenet earlier that day. «
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8866440606326 94627&q=edwards+9/11+wal
ters&total=23&start=0&num=10&so=0&type= search&plindex=0
By ardee, August 11, 2007 at 7:43 am #
I just somewhat caught up with this rather interesting exchange between Cyrena and Mr. Chalmers.
As to “certain posters”, well, there is the option of blocking their posts....and their PM’s as well. So far, as I value the first amendmant above all others, I have only attempted this drastic solution on one poster preferring to use will power to scroll past the efforts headed by certain names. Others, like Marshall, must be refuted as his insidious little lies pile up into one giant pile of bullshit.
As to the economic issues discussed:
“If all the economists were laid end to end they couldnt reach a conclusion.” George Bernard Shaw
It requires a certain shift in the thought processes to fully comprehend our current situation, I believe. One must cease looking at governments and understand that it is all a for profit sort of Ponzi scheme, and world wide.
It matter not, sadly, who we elect to a system that we do not control and does not answer to our needs or wishes. I have always understood that, in the end, Capitalism eats its young. Today the world is run by folks whose lives are so different from our own, who are so out of touch with our realities that it is easy for them to ignore the suffering they cause, they never notice it as they move from limousine to private jet to helicopter to private Island to rambling estate.
Until people begin to understand that we need to address this fact that all decisions are made by folks who might as well be from Mars, so different are their values and aspirations from the billions who try to scuffle a decent living from our planet, we will make no significant changes.
“Our contest is not only whether we ourselves shall be free, but whether there shall be left to mankind an asylum on earth for civil and religious liberty.” Samuel Adams
Report thisBy John Borowski, August 11, 2007 at 6:31 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
My dear Doug, what we infidels would like to know is if the historic xxxxxx is in the same league with the Magna Charta. Surely, it must have some substance if the plotters would want to circumvent it. I have notice your comments are replete with your inanities not only in Last Days, but also all over the place. Surely, you can get a renewal from xxxxxx to post this historic xxxxxx. After we read this historic xxxxxx, we will be able to decide if the hanky panky is evident. God bless you Doug and all of the rightys posing as leftist. Such an important xxxxxx should not be kept hidden from us masses.
Report thisBy Douglas Chalmers, August 11, 2007 at 6:00 am #
#93917 by cyrena on 8/11 at 4:52 am: “...now, I figured out a long while back, when I was still a corporate slave, that this was eventually going to happen, though my own arrival at those conclusions was based on far less sophisticated knowledge of the workings of the economy....”
No, cyrena, no need to let any of it get you down. Its their problem - they caused it and they can fix it! Just be careful who you vote for. Then again, the political debate earlier in the week started off on the infrastructure topic instead of war for once anyway and just as well.
All the money just pumped into the system is going nowhere! It would have been better if they had just let the markets find their own level - as they always tell us they should. That indicates something in itself. They are dabbling desperately in propping up the status quo - and at any cost. When that fails, there really will be a mess.
The IMF’s (International Monetary Fund http://www.imf.org ) MD, Rodrigo de Rato, has been saying repeatedly since early last year that things “could unwind in a disorderly manner”. That is happening now and is directly involving leveraged debt and derivatives with all of the ramifications for the global markets. What was pumped in by the US in the last 48 hours to prop things up was very little compared with the total global effort. That also tells us something.....
Quote: “The Federal Reserve and European Central Bank pumped money into the banking system for a second day on Friday to ward off a global credit crisis and the Fed said it stood ready to do more if needed. Central banks worldwide have injected at least $323.3 billion in the past 48 hours.....” http://www.reuters.com/article/gc06/idUSN0832017120070 810?src=081007_1509_weekend_weekend&sp=true
Perhaps we could also say that the current “dirty bomb threat’ in New York is extremely timely and especially since it has been described as “unconfirmed” and therefore can never be questioned. It is helping to divert attention from the very real drama now unfolding.
Quote GlobalResearch: “The Bank for International Settlements issued a warning this week that the Federal Reserve’s monetary policies have created an enormous equity bubble which could lead to another “Great Depression”. The UK Telegraph says that, “The BIS--the ultimate bank of central bankers--pointed to a confluence of worrying signs”, citing mass issuance of new-fangled credit instruments, soaring levels of household debt, extreme appetite for risk shown by investors, and entrenched imbalances in the world currency system...... The IMF and the UN have issued similar warnings, but they’ve all been shrugged off by the Bush administration. Neither Bush nor the Federal Reserve is interested in “course correction”. They plan to stick with the same harebrained policies until the end....” http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=6807
Report thisBy Skruff, August 11, 2007 at 5:23 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Ardee
“I wonder if Skruff places special significance upon a flag made in the USA as opposed to one made elsewhere?”
A-yeah I do! and a washing machine, and a TV set, and a Caterpillar back hoe. As a former resident of Lawrence Massachusetts, my five years there gave me a GREAT appriciation of US made textiles. And as a Yankee, I do have an inordenately high regard for my area of the country. BUT having lived in many places from Arizona to Oregon, and Maine to Florida
(never been to California) I’ve never found a place in the US or Canada where I could not live happily!
AND, NO I do not “wrap myself in the flag” (although that comment gave my children a laugh) My flagpole has been nude since January 2000, and it will remain so until we have a President who did not steal the election. I currently love my country, but hate its government (both parties through at least 4 administrations)
Report thisBy cyrena, August 11, 2007 at 4:52 am #
Doug,
Ironically enough, I had just finished reading Paul Krugman’s piece in the NYT, with this very same disaster, as it’s happening now, and how the fact that the feds and Central Bank are gonna pour all of these billions into stocking up the banks, and reducing the interest rate. Except of course it doesn’t do a bit of good if nobody is willing to loan any of the money, and nobody is buying.
Now, I figured out a long while back, when I was still a corporate slave, that this was eventually going to happen, though my own arrival at those conclusions was based on far less sophisticated knowledge of the workings of the economy. I’ve learned a lot more since, and as usual the best lessons are learned though first hand experiences, which can often be painful. So, now I understand what I “intuition-ed” back then, from the more complicated picture. And, it doesn’t look good. But, without meaning to sound in despair or anything, NOTHING has, for a very long time.
And, this doesn’t seem like a “brief” scare, even to those that are only paying 50% attention. It’s given me a headache. I might even have to find the hard stuff and throw a splash of it into my heart health pomegranate juice. (won’t be able to afford that any longer either).
Cheers. And, here’s the piece by Paul Krugman. Basically says the same thing. Very frightening.
Actually, I knew I’d read this somewhere else…it was on the common dreams site as well. So, that’s the link here.
“Very Scary Things”
Paul Krugman
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/08/10/3100
Report thisBy Douglas Chalmers, August 11, 2007 at 12:36 am #
#93897 by cyrena on 8/11 at 12:07 am: “...it is bad for business. And, I don’t even know what all of “them” get out of it, (these posters that stick out so obviously against the grain, and seemingly only to agitate.) ..........And, I haven’t been doing this blogging long enough myself, to try and discern if these misfits are deliberately lurking, as part of some larger “assignment”, or if they’re just wing-nuts....”
I’ve been blogging in a few countries around the globe and the Brits, Americans and Aussies are the worst I have come across, cyrena - especially as regards the sexist and stupidly aggressive agenda displayed here recently. Countries where English is not the first language are by far the most polite.
I guess the NASCAR crowd and the juvenile YouTube watchers have progressed to Truthdig. Wow! Then again, politics and comment in America are more or less that shallow anyway. Truth and intelligence could be regarded as just another new form of entertainment......
This “rapid decline of our system as we’ve known it” will now take on a more compelling appearance as the world’s central banks pour $billions down the drain of the biggest financial whilpool in history. Ironically, that is what happened in the 1990’s Asian financial crisis when countries like Hong Komg and Thailand had theitr economies wrecked by trying to hold onto the pegged values of their currencies against the $US.
Now, it is the $US and the rest ot the major currencies and the ‘yen carry trade’ fantasy currencies in Australia and New Zealand (read about it at Bloomberg’s) spinning out of control while the fools in the treasury have been looking the other way. Taxes might have to go up soon too to compensate for loss of liquidity.
Quote: ‘Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke was wrong’ - “...So were U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Merrill Lynch & Co. Chief Executive Officer Stanley O’Neal. The subprime mortgage industry’s problems were contained, they all said. It turns out that the turmoil was contagious........
The $2 trillion market for mortgages not backed by government- sponsored agencies is at a standstill. That’s just the beginning. Other types of mortgages are suffering. So are firms and banks that package the debt for investors. The ripples were felt in Europe and Asia, where central banks offered cash to banks amid a credit crunch. And some corporations, from countertop makers to railroads, are blaming the mortgage meltdown and housing slump for earnings that fell short of analysts’ estimates....” http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&si d=aygqZPuV0y14&refer=home
Report thisBy cyrena, August 11, 2007 at 12:07 am #
#93879 by Douglas Chalmers on 8/10 at 10:14 pm
• Whoever are the owners of those screen names are not needed in a genuine converstation..... even on a blog. Its not freedom of speech to wantonly attack people or to post irrelevant drivel and its bad for business too.
Well, I agree…to all. And, it is bad for business. And, I don’t even know what all of “them” get out of it, (these posters that stick out so obviously against the grain, and seemingly only to agitate.) And, I haven’t been doing this blogging long enough myself, to try and discern if these misfits are deliberately lurking, as part of some larger “assignment”, or if they’re just wing-nuts. But then, that’s been the story of my life these past several years, trying to understand the inconceivable. So, there is definitely something to note in all of the articles about our slide into paranoia. And, that’s not to even mention the frustration and depression of experiencing this rapid decline of our system s we’ve known it, and feeling helpless to do anything about it.
So, when even more crazies sort of lurk in the background, it does create some damage, if only because, like all the rest of them, it’s can be difficult to figure out whether it’s the most sinister malfeasance, or if they simply don’t know any better. I have to assume the former, once enough posts have come though, because there’s no reason for people like Marshall or the Elder Earl to even be interested in a site like this. They should be keeping up with Rush Limbaugh and his antics. Or, hanging out at NASCAR races, or whatever. So, the intent there, seems just to agitate, and attempt to perpetrate the myths that the Cabal has maintained as their primary themes for all of this time.
So, we shall see if they clean up their act, at the TD headquarters at least. If not, we’ve managed to run a few others off, if only be ignoring them, or simply calling them out.
So, we’ll see.
Report thisBy Douglas Chalmers, August 10, 2007 at 10:14 pm #
#93653 by cyrena on 8/10 at 5:27 am: “...They always show up, but they’re equally transparent in their attacks. Somehow, there doesn’t seem to be a motivation on the part of the Truthdig editors to do that though........ So, I’m thinking you were being facetious about the Scheers. More honestly, I doubt they can possibly keep track of all these posts. I can’t. Not even close, and I suspect I have a whole lot more time on my hands than they do....”
Well, lets see if they can clean up their act a little, eh, cyrena. Whoever are the owners of those screen names are not needed in a genuine converstation..... even on a blog. Its not freedom of speech to wantonly attack people or to post irrelevant drivel and its bad for business too.
Apart from that, Truthdig haven’t even been able to keep up with the flow over the past few days and have slowed posts appearing for minutes and even hours. Pity they still can’t fix their software about that miserable “return to the topic” page which keeps appearing when you open an emailed link as well.
Report thisBy cyrena, August 10, 2007 at 8:56 pm #
Thanks guys, for the flag info. I don’t wanna claim to be a flag waving fanatic, because I don’t have any overwhelmingly political or otherwise emotional attachment to it. But, I do dabble in textiles and needlework and sometimes there’s a need for a flag here and there. And, I was always really impressed with Betsy’s work on the originals.
And, unfortunately, I know for a fact that at least a portion of the U.S. flags that have gone into circulation, (or, more tragically, on the coffins of our troops) during the past 6 years have indeed been mass manufactured in parts of Asia.
Just like my 2nd purchase of a Gateway computer was shipped from Shanghais, even though Gateway is supposed to be in South Dakota, with mostly American workers putting them together. At least that was the case with my first one. So, when the next one came from Shanghais, I was thoroughly pissed off.
But, it’s worse about the flags. I just don’t like the cynicism it represents.
But, what else is new?
Report thisBy ardee, August 10, 2007 at 3:59 pm #
Skruff postulates:
Who would want a flag from anywhere else?
I wonder if Skruff places special significance upon a flag made in the USA as opposed to one made elsewhere? Would then it be said that a flag made in one of the original thirteen colonies had more significance than one made in any other “johnny come lately” state? Would a flag made in a neighboring nation inspire more patriotic fervor than one made in a country not contiguous with our borders? Would it then be OK for someone to burn a flag made in Malasia but not in New England?
Not to say that I am not worried about our manufacturing jobs going abroad but the flag is a piece of cloth after all, and not a religious ikon. I think that Craig Washington, Democratic member of the Texas State Senate summed it up best:
“ I prefer a man who will burn the flag and wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and wrap himslef in the flag.”
Report thisBy cyrena, August 10, 2007 at 12:35 pm #
Ardee,
Thanks for those links for the flags. I’m gonna check them out.
Report thisBy ardee, August 10, 2007 at 10:30 am #
Cyrena,
Two links to flags supposedly made in the USA:
http://www.americanflags.com/buyamericanflagsonline.htm
http://www.cvsflags.com/americanflags.cfm?kc=mXUYhsGzz f3t5HUjvbe12isXhH
There appear to be more manufacturers claiming to make flags here as well....
Report thisBy Skruff, August 10, 2007 at 5:56 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
93600 by cyrena on 8/09 at 8:38 pm Asks:
And I thank YOU – Skruff, from providing the same. If you also know the names of these EXISTING manufacturers, (because I think the New Hampshire flag making headquarters are gone now – and I don’t remember where Betsy Ross hailed from) I would be delighted to know that myself.
Here are my top three Flag Companies. I checked for you, and found that indeed, most US flags are still made in the USA. Who would want a flag from anywhere else?
Valley Forge Flag Company
1700 Conrad Weiser
Womelsdorf, PA 19567
info at ValleyForgeFlag dot com
Allstates Flag Co.
816 Fee Fee Rd.
Maryland Hts., MO. 63043
1-800-688-FLAG (3524)
sales at allstates-flag dot com
Piedmont Flag Company
http://www.PiedmontFlag.Com
Post Office Box 685,
Maiden, North Carolina 28650-0685
Betsy “Ross” (a married name she was no longer using at the time she sewed the first US Flag) hails from
Report thisPhiladelphia born on New Year’s Day, 1752 Her family (like my father’s) were conservative Quakers.
By cyrena, August 10, 2007 at 5:27 am #
#93646 by Douglas Chalmers on 8/10 at 4:08 am
Yes, I thought so! Scheer senior and Scheer junior have acquired some screen names through which they can play malicious cat-and-mouse games with their bloggers. As it is their blog, they think they have the right to do whatever they please - even for their own spurious entertainment.
There are some forums where the moderators and administrators viciously attack newcomers. There are others where they use vague screen names to conceal their attacks on bloggers they want to get rid of. Its a kind of sickness, really - jealousy.
===========================
Doug, are you part kidding and part serious on this?
I mean, do you believe that Robert and Josh Scheer, (and maybe James Harris as well) are really out to get us?
I’ve certainly had my own fair share of hate mail directed at me via these forums, but not all of it is. And, I’ve noticed over the months that the “screen names” who mostly attack me, are the same ones that attack Sheer and associates as well.
On the other hand, the same bunch do in fact seem to fit with these same screen names being somehow sick, the ones who attack other bloggers for the reasons that you’ve suggested..to run them off, and some sort of sick jealousy. It seems to me to be a matter of competition, and the need for attention. For those who cannot obtain the required “attention” based on their own personal merits, they gain it by knocking everyone else’s down. In other words, it’s the age old attempt to make oneself “look good”, by making a competitor (real or imagined) “look bad”.
And, all too often, the selected “enemy” hasn’t even put him or herself into the competition.
They always show up, but they’re equally transparent in their attacks. Somehow, there doesn’t seem to be a motivation on the part of the Truthdig editors to do that though.
So, I’m thinking you were being facetious about the Scheers. More honestly, I doubt they can possibly keep track of all these posts. I can’t. Not even close, and I suspect I have a whole lot more time on my hands than they do.
Report thisBy Douglas Chalmers, August 10, 2007 at 4:08 am #
#93520 by John Borowski on 8/09 at 2:05 pm: “....I will refer to Doug’s something because he doesn’t like my terminology. Therefore, I will call it xxxxxx. The plotters at Truthdig somehow knew he was going to deliver an earth-shaking xxxxxx. They hurriedly eliminated the article Last Days so they could head him off at the pass from doing so and it wouldn’t be their Last Days...”
Yes, I thought so! Scheer senior and Scheer junior have acquired some screen names through which they can play malicious cat-and-mouse games with their bloggers. As it is their blog, they think they have the right to do whatever they please - even for their own spurious entertainment.
There are some forums where the moderators and administrators viciously attack newcomers. There are others where they use vague screen names to conceal their attacks on bloggers they want to get rid of. Its a kind of sickness, really - jealousy.
Report thisBy cyrena, August 9, 2007 at 8:38 pm #
Skruff writes: (can’t find the number)
• Other on shore manufacturers are located in Missouri, North Carolina, and Illinois.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to inform posters on this site of American manufacturers still in business!
And I thank YOU – Skruff, from providing the same. If you also know the names of these EXISTING manufacturers, (because I think the New Hampshire flag making headquarters are gone now – and I don’t remember where Betsy Ross hailed from) I would be delighted to know that myself.
It has been many years now, since I’ve come across a US flag that was actually manufactured here in the U.S. I’ve seen lawn chairs, beach towels, caps, backpacks, etc, etc made out of material that has the basic design/theme/colors of the U.S. flag, (though I think those all come from China or India as well) but I’ve not come across a basic US FLAG for a real long time. The ones I see don’t fold correctly, because they aren’t made of real fabric, but this mixture of something that renders it “rubbery” almost like it’s got a petroleum base to it. Greasy in fact. Yikes! It just dawned on me – they reek of OIL.
But, those are the ones that are in fact mass shipped from China. So, I’d be delighted to get a real one.
Report thisBy Leefeller, August 9, 2007 at 5:31 pm #
Hey Chompers,
What are you doing out. Your over here pissing off people that agree with you?
I guess your posting marathon is working. The problem is Doug you are getting your postings mixed up Mid City Mike is on the Hitchens Post.
On topic now.
Their is an agenda by the powers that be, to create a new world order, we see the hand writing on the wall with the support of our governemnt towards WTO, Nafta and then big business not even being tied to borders.
Bush, Congress and Special Interests have got us by the tenders. We can be aware and try to vote the bums out, but that has not worked yet, so why would it start now?
Prove me wrong and I will be a happy camper.
Report thisBy John Borowski, August 9, 2007 at 2:05 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
The following is an updated version edited by my Honeybunch to celebrate the finding of her glasses. This is Doug’s fantasy logic. I will refer to Doug’s something because he doesn’t like my terminology. Therefore, I will call it xxxxxx. The plotters at Truthdig somehow knew he was going to deliver an earth-shaking xxxxxx. They hurriedly eliminated the article Last Days so they could head him off at the pass from doing so and it wouldn’t be their Last Days. The xxxxxx apparently had an ephemeral life, because even when Last Days was back on board in two days xxxxxx was useless. This prevented poor Doug from having another go at it when Last Days came back on line. Unlike the Space Station, my logic is more down to earth. The technical people will remove an article for a reason. It might mean there is a bug that crawled into it. The techies might be trying to step on the bug before it has babies. They might be making room for a new article on the home page, or a myriad of other reasons. If you try to load this article when they are working on it, you will be unable to do so for technical reasons. Anybody that has worked on a computer will from time to time experienced this inability to load what you want. The older version of this epistle I tried to sneak in while she was glassless.
Report thisBy John Borowski, August 9, 2007 at 6:14 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
This is Doug’s fantasy logic. I will refer to Doug’s something because he doesn’t like my terminology. Therefore, I will call it xxxxxx. The plotters at Truthdig somehow knew he was going to deliver an earth-shaking xxxxxx. They hurriedly eliminated the article Last Days so they could head him off at the pass from doing so. The xxxxxx apparently had an ephemeral life, because even when Last Days was back on board in two days it was useless. This prevented poor Doug from having another go at it when it came back on line. Unlike the Space Station, my logic is more down to earth. The technical people will remove an article for a reason. It might mean there is a bug in it. They might be making room for a new article on the home page, or a myriad of other reasons. If you try to load this article when they are working on it, you will be unable to do so for technical reasons. Anybody that has worked on a computer will from time to time experienced this inability to load what you want. My love-mate also lost her glasses. As a result, ou