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A Declaration of Independence From Israel

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Posted on Jul 2, 2007
flag burning
AP Photo/Hatem Moussa

Armed Palestinian women burn Israeli and U.S. flags during a protest against Israel’s operations in the Gaza Strip and Lebanon.

By Chris Hedges

(Page 2)

“The key products and services,” as Naomi Klein wrote in The Nation, “are hi-tech fences, unmanned drones, biometric IDs, video and audio surveillance gear, air passenger profiling and prisoner interrogation systems—precisely the tools and technologies Israel has used to lock in the occupied territories.  And that is why the chaos in Gaza and the rest of the region doesn’t threaten the bottom line in Tel Aviv, and may actually boost it.  Israel has learned to turn endless war into a brand asset, pitching its uprooting, occupation and containment of the Palestinian people as a half-century head start in the ‘global war on terror.’ ”

The United States, at least officially, does not support the occupation and calls for a viable Palestinian state.  It is a global player, with interests that stretch well beyond the boundaries of the Middle East, and the equation that Israel’s enemies are our enemies is not that simple.

“Terrorism is not a single adversary,” John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt wrote in The London Review of Books, “but a tactic employed by a wide array of political groups.  The terrorist organizations that threaten Israel do not threaten the United States, except when it intervenes against them (as in Lebanon in 1982).  Moreover, Palestinian terrorism is not random violence directed against Israel or ‘the West’; it is largely a response to Israel’s prolonged campaign to colonize the West Bank and Gaza Strip.  More important, saying that Israel and the US are united by a shared terrorist threat has the causal relationship backwards: the US has a terrorism problem in good part because it is so closely allied with Israel, not the other way around.”

Middle Eastern policy is shaped in the United States by those with very close ties to the Israel lobby.  Those who attempt to counter the virulent Israeli position, such as former Secretary of State Colin Powell, are ruthlessly slapped down.  This alliance was true also during the Clinton administration, with its array of Israel-first Middle East experts, including special Middle East coordinator Dennis Ross and Martin Indyk, the former deputy director of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, AIPAC, one of the most powerful Israel lobbying groups in Washington.  But at least people like Indyk and Ross are sane, willing to consider a Palestinian state, however unviable, as long as it is palatable to Israel.  The Bush administration turned to the far-right wing of the Israel lobby, those who have not a shred of compassion for the Palestinians or a word of criticism for Israel.  These new Middle East experts include Elliott Abrams, John Bolton, Douglas Feith, the disgraced I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby, Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz and David Wurmser.

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  Washington was once willing to stay Israel’s hand.  It intervened to thwart some of its most extreme violations of human rights.  This administration, however, has signed on for every disastrous Israeli blunder, from building the security barrier in the West Bank, to sealing off Gaza and triggering a humanitarian crisis, to the ruinous invasion and saturation bombing of Lebanon.

The few tepid attempts by the Bush White House to criticize Israeli actions have all ended in hasty and humiliating retreats in the face of Israeli pressure.  When the Israel Defense Forces in April 2002 reoccupied the West Bank, President Bush called on then-Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to “halt the incursions and begin withdrawal.”  It never happened.  After a week of heavy pressure from the Israel lobby and Israel’s allies in Congress, meaning just about everyone in Congress, the president gave up, calling Sharon “a man of peace.”  It was a humiliating moment for the United States, a clear sign of who pulled the strings.

There were several reasons for the war in Iraq.  The desire for American control of oil, the belief that Washington could build puppet states in the region, and a real, if misplaced, fear of Saddam Hussein played a part in the current disaster.  But it was also strongly shaped by the notion that what is good for Israel is good for the United States.  Israel wanted Iraq neutralized.  Israeli intelligence, in the lead-up to the war, gave faulty information to the U.S. about Iraq’s alleged arsenal of weapons of mass destruction.  And when Baghdad was taken in April 2003, the Israeli government immediately began to push for an attack on Syria.  The lust for this attack has waned, in no small part because the Americans don’t have enough troops to hang on in Iraq, much less launch a new occupation. 

Israel is currently lobbying the United States to launch aerial strikes on Iran, despite the debacle in Lebanon.  Israel’s iron determination to forcibly prevent a nuclear Iran makes it probable that before the end of the Bush administration an attack on Iran will take place.  The efforts to halt nuclear development through diplomatic means have failed.  It does not matter that Iran poses no threat to the United States.  It does not matter that it does not even pose a threat to Israel, which has several hundred nuclear weapons in its arsenal.  It matters only that Israel demands total military domination of the Middle East. 

The alliance between Israel and the United States has culminated after 50 years in direct U.S. military involvement in the Middle East.  This involvement, which is not furthering American interests, is unleashing a geopolitical nightmare.  American soldiers and Marines are dying in droves in a useless war.  The impotence of the United States in the face of Israeli pressure is complete.  The White House and the Congress have become, for perhaps the first time, a direct extension of Israeli interests.  There is no longer any debate within the United States.  This is evidenced by the obsequious nods to Israel by all the current presidential candidates with the exception of Dennis Kucinich.  The political cost for those who challenge Israel is too high. 

This means there will be no peaceful resolution of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.  It means the incidents of Islamic terrorism against the U.S. and Israel will grow.  It means that American power and prestige are on a steep, irreversible decline.  And I fear it also means the ultimate end of the Jewish experiment in the Middle East. 

The weakening of the United States, economically and militarily, is giving rise to new centers of power.  The U.S. economy, mismanaged and drained by the Iraq war, is increasingly dependent on Chinese trade imports and on Chinese holdings of U.S. Treasury securities.  China holds dollar reserves worth $825 billion.  If Beijing decides to abandon the U.S. bond market, even in part, it would cause a free fall by the dollar.  It would lead to the collapse of the $7-trillion U.S. real estate market.  There would be a wave of U.S. bank failures and huge unemployment.  The growing dependence on China has been accompanied by aggressive work by the Chinese to build alliances with many of the world’s major exporters of oil, such as Iran, Nigeria, Sudan and Venezuela.  The Chinese are preparing for the looming worldwide clash over dwindling resources. 

The future is ominous.  Not only do Israel’s foreign policy objectives not coincide with American interests, they actively hurt them.  The growing belligerence in the Middle East, the calls for an attack against Iran, the collapse of the imperial project in Iraq have all given an opening, where there was none before, to America’s rivals.  It is not in Israel’s interests to ignite a regional conflict.  It is not in ours.  But those who have their hands on the wheel seem determined, in the name of freedom and democracy, to keep the American ship of state headed at breakneck speed into the cliffs before us.


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By the 1Sgt, July 8, 2007 at 4:42 am Link to this comment

Rachel Corrie was an American student, activist who gave her life while trying to prevent the destruction of yet another Palestinian home in the “occupied territories” by Israeli authorities. The driver of that bulldozer basically ran her over like a dog. CNN didn’t seem to think the story was fictitious:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/16/rafah.death/index.html

There is even a memorial website:
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/

The point of my posting this is to show Lefty knowingly uses approved tactics of Hasbara. Essentially:
Hasbara refers to the propaganda efforts to sell Israel, justify its actions, and defend it in world opinion. Using contemporary euphemisms, it is Public diplomacy for Israel, or using a pejorative interpretation, then it is apologia. Israel portrays itself as fighting on two fronts: the Palestinians and world opinion. The latter is dealt with hasbara. The premise of hasbara is that Israel’s problems are a matter of better propaganda, and not one of an underlying unjust situation.
The techniques utilized

  * Smearing/defaming critics of Israel, aka, attacking the messenger. This is even the terminology found in the Hasbara Handbook
  * Selective discussion of issues
  * Framing of issues, and setting the terminology used in discussing Israel
  * Harassing media about its coverage, aka, flak
  * Challenging the portrayal of an alternative narrative, and attempting to keep the zionist narrative as the dominant one.

They even have a Campus manual:

Hasbara Campus Manual

The Hasbara Handbook: http://www.middle-east-info.org/take/wujshasbara.pdf

The manual goes on to describe seven propaganda techniques:

  1. Name calling: through the careful use of words, then name calling technique links a person or an idea to a negative symbol.
  2. Glittering generality: Simply put, glittering generality is name calling in reverse. Instead of trying to attach negative meanings to ideas or people, glittering generalities use positive phrases, which the audience are attached to, in order to lend positive image to things. Words such as “freedom”, “civilization”,…
  3. Transfer: Transfer involves taking some of the prestige and authority of one concept and applying it to another. For example, a speaker might decide to speak in front of a United Nations flag, in an attempt to gain legitimacy for himself or his idea.
  4. Testimonial: Testimonial means enlisting the support of somebody admired or famous to endorse and ideal or campaign.
  5. Plain folks: The plain folks technique attempts to convince the listener that the speaker is a ‘regular guy’, who is trust-worthy because the are like ‘you or me’.
  6. Fear
  7. Bandwagon

So, my whole point is while we are here responding to the article in question and I agree, it is time for us to be truly “independent” from Israel, you can see there are propagandists for Israel here to get the discussion turned off.

Lefty, time for you to drop and give me 50. You have been uncovered.

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By the 1Sgt, July 8, 2007 at 4:15 am Link to this comment

#84932 by Inherit The Wind on 7/07 at 7:38 pm
(Unregistered commenter)
“Even if their goal was cynically ALWAYS American bases in the Middle East and control of Iraqi oil anyone with half a brain could have gotten them their faster and more effectively. “
======================================================
That’s correct. The policy has always been to garrison forces in the area to protect the oil. We used to have the majority of them in Saudi Arabia and then the plan collapsed when the monarchy got cold feet due to pressure from the extremists. The Iraq war partly plays as a replacement “flat top” in the desert for Saudi Arabia. If anyone thinks we are leaving Iraq after building a 1 BILLION dollar embassy there, not to mention the MilCon for the bases, they are fooling themselves.

A secondary player in this war in my opinion is the protection of Israel by eliminating the enemies Israel has. Iraq was low hanging fruit so it became first. The policy is flawed in my opinion because it never took into account the destabilization of Iraq and re-formation of the same into a second Iran. Unless, of course the plan is to target Iran next, which is what it appears they want to do. I mean, we do have 3 carriers in the area last time I checked.

as to Lefty, I agree the propaganda he spams here doesn’t work in the end, but that is so only to the educated. Because we know him and what he and MANY people like him do on internet forums (they are everywhere). Their main job is to squelch any criticism of Israel. The Israeli government and some non-Gov agencies actually encourage this behavior through dissemination of Harbara (propaganda) techniques designed to promote Israel in a positive light. These people are all over US campuses.

Please note Lefty still has not answered that he is indeed an Israeli. They try to hide and pose themselves are Americans.

Then do note his reaction that Rachel Corrie’s story is just a “story” and possibly fabricated:

“As for this Rachel Corrie, assuming, arguendo, that actually such a person actuallyexisted and did what you claim, then she knew what the consequences would be and got exactly what she deserved.

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By cyrena, July 8, 2007 at 12:08 am Link to this comment

Robert, thanks as usual for the quotes.

This pretty much sums it up:

A Jewish Majority By All Means

BASED On Declassified Israeli Documents & Personal Diaries

“The most important of Zionist pillars is the creation of a “Jewish state” where Jews could constitute a majority, which by no means was restricted to Palestine (British controlled Uganda was seriously considered by Theodor Herzl). Despite relentless British assistance to expedite and facilitate the immigration of the persecuted European Jews to Palestine, Jews in Palestine increased from under 8% in 1914 to 33% as of 1947, but they only owned under 7% of the total land.

Because of the demographic makeup and the high rate of land ownership among the Palestinian people, it was deemed necessary by Zionists to forcibly “transfer” and dispossess the Palestinian people, otherwise, Zionism could have never been realized, at least not in Palestine. As early as the mid-1920s, many of the early Zionists recognized that the realization of Zionism constituted an injustice upon the Palestinian people, but they had concluded that Jewish justice is greater. This point of view was eloquently articulated by Ze’ev Jabotinsky (the founder of the Israeli political Right), who wrote in 1926:

“ ... the tragedy lies in the fact the there is a collision here between two truths .... but our justice is greater. The Arabs is culturally backward, but his instinctive patriotism is just as pure and noble as our own; it can not be bought, it can only be curbed ... force majeure.” (Righteous Victims, p. 108)”

Herein lies the tragedy, and even explains the whole Zionist paranoia. They KNOW, instinctively, that they are in the WRONG place, at the WRONG time. Knowing this, the decision is simply made, that they are in fact superior, and that they do in fact “deserve” this space more than the other indigenous inhabitants. And, they long ago adopted the posture that they would maintain this by force. It never occured to them, to try and peacefully integrate themselves into the population that they invaded, which clearly would have eliminated all of their grief. But here again, because it had already become a “given” that they were to have this “exclusively”.

So, there it is. It explains the last 40 years of crimes against humanity.

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Robert's avatar

By Robert, July 8, 2007 at 12:02 am Link to this comment

The Palestine Police Force

(REWARDS TO BE PAID by the Palestine Government)

             
              WANTED!

ISRAELI JEWISH TERRORISTS WANTED BY THE BRITISH

===========================================

Do you recognize two former Israeli prime ministers from the wanted “terrorists” list?


http://www.palestineremembered.com/images/IsraeliJewishTerroristsWanted.html

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Robert's avatar

By Robert, July 7, 2007 at 11:38 pm Link to this comment

A Jewish Majority By All Means

BASED On Declassified Israeli Documents & Personal Diaries

“The most important of Zionist pillars is the creation of a “Jewish state” where Jews could constitute a majority, which by no means was restricted to Palestine (British controlled Uganda was seriously considered by Theodor Herzl). Despite relentless British assistance to expedite and facilitate the immigration of the persecuted European Jews to Palestine, Jews in Palestine increased from under 8% in 1914 to 33% as of 1947, but they only owned under 7% of the total land.

Because of the demographic makeup and the high rate of land ownership among the Palestinian people, it was deemed necessary by Zionists to forcibly “transfer” and dispossess the Palestinian people, otherwise, Zionism could have never been realized, at least not in Palestine. As early as the mid-1920s, many of the early Zionists recognized that the realization of Zionism constituted an injustice upon the Palestinian people, but they had concluded that Jewish justice is greater. This point of view was eloquently articulated by Ze’ev Jabotinsky (the founder of the Israeli political Right), who wrote in 1926:

” ... the tragedy lies in the fact the there is a collision here between two truths .... but our justice is greater. The Arabs is culturally backward, but his instinctive patriotism is just as pure and noble as our own; it can not be bought, it can only be curbed ... force majeure.” (Righteous Victims, p. 108)”

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By uh, clem, July 7, 2007 at 8:55 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

i just figured it out:  “lefty” is a phony. he is actually an arab terrorist with access to the web whose main purpose, judging by the sheer amount of crap he posts,  is to discredit legitimate zionism.

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By Inherit The Wind, July 7, 2007 at 8:38 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ernest:
It’s a big leap from the neo-con fascists in the Bush administration leaping at 9/11 as the chance to implement their fascist policies for undermining the Constitutionto actually precipitating the attack.  I just cannot make that leap without much stronger, non-circumstantial evidence.

Sure, they had the Patriot Act ready to roll. They had clearly been working on it for months.  Sure, they leaped at the chance to blame Iraq—they were obsessed with Iraq and needed an excuse, when this tragedy was dumped in their lap.

But to believe they were behind it rather than just opportunistically using requires a major cognitive dissonance.  To wit: For the attacks on 9/11 to NOT be what they appear to be, an Al Qaeda suicide operation brilliant in its evil simplicity, requires a huge coordination of effort, perfect maintenance of secrecy, and a million loose ends that had to be secured.

Now this was to happen from the gang who couldn’t successfully hide their phony-baloney crappy lies about how Iraq was a threat???

That’s the argument I take: In actual, real, diplomatic, military and covert operations, this is The Gang That Couldn’t Shoot Straight.

To make it super-brief, if they could pull off the 9/11 conspiracy fantasy, how come, with all of America behind them, the best and most savvy military at their command, they STILL managed to screw up BOTH the war in Iraq AND the war in Afghanistan????

Despite numerous ways to be successful in Iraq, they consistently took the flat-out stupidest.  That cannot be disputed—even most Republicans agree on that. Even if their goal was cynically ALWAYS American bases in the Middle East and control of Iraqi oil anyone with half a brain could have gotten them their faster and more effectively.  For example: Simply, at the beginning, follow the recommendations of Gen. Erik Shinseki, the Chief of Staff of the Army. Period.  Instead they forced him to retire and humiliated him, when he was, of course, right.

The Bush administration cannot even manage a natural disaster…Not only did they TOTALLY botch the Hurricane Katrina rescue effort, they more recently botched the Kansas disaster because they learned NOTHING.  They screw up every government fuction they are supposed to perform because they are loaded down with grafters, lackeys and political ideologues.

The one thing they are good at is playing politics, dirty, cheating hardball politics.  But that’s all they are good at.  Their ONLY effective response to Katrina was to get the GOP faithful to blame the mayor of NO and the Gov. of La (both Dems) loudly and continuously on talk radio and the MSM.

THAT is the canyon I cannot leap to seeing them complicit in 9/11—Their gross incompetence at anything but dirty politics.

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By cyrena, July 7, 2007 at 7:05 pm Link to this comment

#84911 by outrider on 7/07 at 5:38 pm

You’re correct outrider, the lefty propaganda has had the opposite effect. That’s what always happens to these types.

And yep…that’s good.

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By cyrena, July 7, 2007 at 7:01 pm Link to this comment

#84895 by Ernest Canning on 7/07 at 4:19 pm
•  let me, Lefty cite but one example as to why I see much of your writing as worthless propaganda.

I won’t recopy the example, but I just wanted to throw in my vote on this, even though I would now go further, and suggest that Lefty’s stuff is ALL propaganda, and dangerous. It has worked itself into a feverish pitch.

So, I second the motion. I haven’t figured out how to tell the computer to “ignore” him or her, but the fast scroll key works just fine, when I need to zoom by all of that stuff. It is tedious though.

Still, just so you know Lefty, I suspect that most folks aren’t paying a whole lot of attention to this stuff now. I mean, there might have been a time when folks responded, especially as new readers and posters join in. Some will go through these motions with you, based on an assumption that you’re rational and logical. (I think most people extend that benefit.) But, it doesn’t take long for the average person to figure out that all of this stuff is exactly what Ernest said it was, ideologically perverted rants that make no sense, and contribute nothing to your arguments, which really are not even close to any sort of “balance”. So, all this propaganda does, is identify as some sort of wing-nut, and totally out of balance yourself.

There could in fact be some benefit to your posts, as an “education” of sorts, to those among us who are just learning about the existence of the ideological radicals among us. But, aside from that….(which doesn’t take long), there’s no point to any of what you post here.

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By outrider, July 7, 2007 at 6:38 pm Link to this comment

There are some who identify Lefty as an Israeli, which he might be, but what he does best is recruit sympathizers and activists for the Palestinian cause.  That is good.  The Palestinians need all the help they can get if all Israelites are like Lefty.

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By GodSend, July 7, 2007 at 5:47 pm Link to this comment

‘Lefty’ has apparently decided to flood this Blog with his anti-Palestinian hate propaganda and Zionist racist screams! I put him on my ‘IGNORE’ list but that doesn’t appear to work - his trash is still polluting my screen! What gives, Administrators?

Meanwhile, the IDF doesn’t just murder innocent Palestinian and Lebanese and Iraqi non-combatants (women and children of all ages) and American peace demonstrators, it also shoots at news photographers, lying on the ground. Don’t believe it? Look here:

http://desertpeace.blogspot.com/2007/07/israeli-terrorism-captured-on-film.html

How these people (Zionists and Zionist sympathizers like ‘Lefty’) can sleep at night or hug their children is beyond comprehension - unless they’re shape-shifting zombies!

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By cann4ing, July 7, 2007 at 5:19 pm Link to this comment

While I primarily seek to avoid your many ideologically blinded rants, let me, Lefty cite but one example as to why I see much of your writing as worthless propaganda.

You state:  “On May 24, 2002—Reserve IDF Sgt. 1st class Oren T. Zelnick, 23, of Ben Yam was killed…when terrorists opened fire on their APC during a counter-terrorism operation in Turkarm…”

Forgive me for not being not all that familiar with the geography, but it sounds like this was a town inside occupied Palestinian territory.  Who decided that the individuals who opened fire on the APC should be described as “terrorists” rather than members of an armed Palestinian “resistance” to this forty-year illegal occupation?  What are the “details” of this incident?  Witnesses?  Do you really “know” whether the Palestinians fired first, or were they simply returning fire that came from the APC?  I suspect not, but if you do, what is your source?

The word “terrorist” is code used by a superior occupying force to describe the weaker occupied force which must resort to the tactic of guerrilla warfare.  The U.S. labels any Iraqi who takes up arms against our illegal occupation as a “terrorist.”  The Nazis labeled all resistance movements throughout occupied Europe as “terrorists.”

Merely asserting that so-and-so was killed by a “terrorist” proves nothing.  Compiling extended lists of such killings likewise proves nothing.

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By cann4ing, July 7, 2007 at 4:45 pm Link to this comment

ITW, here is part II.

While there is intriguing but not entirely conclusive evidence of a potential official complicity in 9/11, with or without such complicitly, Richard Clarke’s revelations of the “immediate” efforts by Bush and Rumsfeld to pin 9/11 on Iraq reveal that the Bush regime, like the Nazis before them, has sought to seize “the psychologically correct moment.”

Propaganda is most effective at a time of popular vulnerability.  Despite their understanding of propaganda’s goals and methods, expressed by Hitler himself in “Mein Kampf,” the Nazis never received anything resembling a mass following until, in the wake of the stock market crash of ‘29, the economy of the Weimar Republic, heavily dependent upon American investment, was sent reeling as American banks withdrew funds.  By the early thirties, one-fifth of Germany’s population—some 13 million people—consisted of the unemployed and their dependents.  Many Germans were frightened not only by the threat the depression held out to their middle class existence but to a growing and often violent Communist movement. 

Where German vulnerability was created by a multitude of conditions over a period of years, America’s psychic trauma was experienced immediately through the visual depiction of the assault on the World Trade Center.  As explained by George Lakoff, the psychic wounds were experienced metaphorically.  “Buildings are metaphorical people…The image of the plane going into the South Tower was…an image of a bullet going through someone’s head, the flames pouring out the other side like blood spurting out.”

The buildings were not only viewed as bodies.  “The World Trade Center was symbolic of society.  When it crumbled and fell, the threat was to more than a building…When it crumbled, it metaphorically raised the questions of whether American power and American society would stand.”

With each successive replay, each of us suffered this vicarious psychic trauma.  While most Americans felt vulnerable and threatened, one has to question whether those at the core of this administration felt that way.  Their ability to “seize the psychologically correct moment” to advance the PNAC agenda; to instantaneously invent the Orwellian phrase “global war on terror” and to almost instantaneously dump a more than 700 page USA/PATRIOT Act onto Congress and to begin measures clearly designed to consolidate unchecked executive power suggests, but does not conclusively prove, that there were at least some at the core of the administration who were either complicit in 9/11 or at least not suprised by its occurrence.  I say some, because I suspect that if there was official complicity, it was not shared with George W. Bush because the man is simply to stupid to have been entrusted with such a monumental secret.

ITW, at a later date, I intend to link this issue to the conflict that has arisen between America’s progressive Jewish intelligencia (e.g. the likes of Norman Finkelstein and Noam Chomsky) and American Zionists, like Alan Dershowitz.  While you have agreed with almost “every word” I have posted on this issue in the past, you are certainly not compelled to do so.  However, I would appreciate it if you would indicate that you follow what I have conveyed so far before I proceed further.

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By cann4ing, July 7, 2007 at 4:02 pm Link to this comment

ITW, I am disappointed by the direction of the threads since you and I first began our attempt at a reasonable discourse over potential official complicity in 9/11.  By this two-part post, I will attempt to restore what I see as a very productive dialogue between us.

I think both you and I sought common ground in exploring the gravity of the danger posed to the very survival of Constitutional democracy.  Examination of that danger requires neither GodSend’s emotionally laden but intellectually unsupported conclusions that 9/11 was a “Zionist conspiracy,” nor Lefty’s voluminous rants suggesting that all Palestinians are evil incarnate.  While Lefty correctly notes the corrupt relationship between the House of Saud, a subject which has been given extensive historical examination by Kevin Phillips, Robert and others can point to Israel-biased policies of both the present and previous administrations and the incessant maneuvering of AIPAC.  I think both sides miss the the core issue, one which I think is better explained in the dialogue between Orwell’s protagonist, Winston Smith, and the burley Party member, O’Brien, as Winston is being tortured inside the Ministry of Love in “1984”:

“‘Now tell me why we cling to power.  What is our motive?’...Winston did not speak for another moment or two.  A feeling of weariness had overwhelmed him.  The faint, mad gleam of enthusiasm had come back into O’Brien’s face.  He knew in advance what O’Brien would say….‘You are ruling over us for out own good,’ [Winston] said feebly.  ‘You believe that humans are not fit to govern themselves, and therefore’—[Winston] started and almost cried out.  A pang of pain shot through his body.  O’Brien had pushed the lever of the dial up to thirty-five.  ‘That was stupid, Winston, stupid!’ he said….‘Now, I will tell you the answer….The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake.  We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power.  Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness; only power, pure power.’”

I think Orwell was onto something profound.  The true goal of the Orwellian sociopaths whom we find at the core of totalitarian movements, be it Hitler and Goebbels in the 1930s or Richard Cheney in the 21st Century, can be explained based upon their unrequited desire for pure, “total” power.  For such individuals, wealth, oil, ideology be it Nazi, fascist, Christian fundamentalist, Islamic fundamentalist, neoconservative,or Zionist, are but tools for accomplishing that core goal.  It is the most logical explanation for Cheney’s absolute obsession with secrecy.

As astutely noted by James Madison, “knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own Governors, must arm themselves with the power knowledge gives.”  When Admiral John Poindexter proposed his Orwellian “Total Information Awareness” program, he did not have in mind a system in which the People would be fully informed, a fact that was underscored by the seal he chose to represent the program—a pyramid, topped by an all-seeing eye, scanning the world and bearing the inscription, Scienter Est Potentia, Latin for “Knowledge is power.”

The arsonist who set the Reichstag fire was Marinus van der Lubbe.  He was caught at the scene and promptly interrogated by Rudolf Diehls, the non-Nazi head of the Prussian political police.  Diehls concluded the fire was solely the work of van der Lubbe.  Given that I explained in my prior post that Hitler would hear none of it; sought to blame the fire on a Communist uprising and told the non-Nazi members of his cabinet, “The psychologically correct moment for the confrontation has arrived,” I was suprised that you felt I had not realized that Hitler knowingly sought to capitalize on this event.

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By the 1Sgt, July 7, 2007 at 3:29 pm Link to this comment

Lefty, why the Hasbara techniques? Also why are you so quick to initiate Israeli debate rule #2 (name calling)?

Not only do you act like one but you also won’t deny you are an Israeli. This of course means you are BIASED. This is understandable. But americans need to know who you are. They are very naive although it is noted there are quite a few intelligent posters here.

I sure wish Israelis would quit killing American citizens like Rachel Corrie…poor girl, all she was protesting was the bulldozing of a Palestinian home on Palestinian land and she was BULLDOZED to death. Only in Israel I guess. Kill us, spy on us, force their wars on us. Oh, I forgot, they also force us to PAY them….Geez…What a LIABILITY!!!!

You wonder why we want our INDEPENDENCE from Israel?

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By Inherit The Wind, July 7, 2007 at 2:35 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ekrem TOS, lawyer-interpreter on 7/07 at 3:59 am
(Unregistered commenter)

Congratulation!

Wonderful article!

As Mr. David DUKE well-described: “America is as occupied as Palestine”.. It’s true!

Ekrem TOS, lawyer/interpreter in Stockholm-Sweden

David Duke is a white supremacist who is a major leader of the Ku Klux Klan, the most significant TERRORIST GROUP in the United States over the last 140 years.  The KKK (Mr. Duke’s organization) is responsible for approximately 3,000 murders, many of them quite notorious.

Mr. Duke is a hero solely to neo-Nazis and other extreme overtly racist groups.

As for Robert’s interminable and totally despicable assertions that Zionists supported the Nazis, what is his source? The WRMEA.  And what is that? An organization that PRIDES itself on being devoted to presenting the Palestiniam point of view.  They are nothing but propaganda.

The WRMEA will say ANYTHING to discredit Jews and Israel, but Robert would have you think it is a viable authority.  Might as well cite the holocaust-denial crowd…Just as much fiction.

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By the 1Sgt, July 7, 2007 at 2:10 pm Link to this comment

Hey Lefty, we know you are an Israeli, can you provide the list of innocent Palestinians murdered by the IDF or allowed to be murdered by others while the IDF stood by?

How about innocent Americans murdered by Israelis, like Rachel Corrie, by a bulldozer?

Forgot about all that eh?

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By outrider, July 7, 2007 at 2:05 pm Link to this comment

“Report: Global warming disastrous for Israel

Israel Union for Environmental Defense publishes report detailing potential consequences of global warming in Israel. Report says ‘Tel Aviv shoreline could reach Ibn Gvirol Street’

Ynet Published:  07.05.07, 16:39 / Israel News

Israel’s environment is headed for disaster, according to a report by Adam Teva V’Din, the Israel Union for Environmental Defense (IUED).”

The article details the amount and type of damage Israel will suffer.  If true, much of the “Promised Land” will inundated by coastal waters and the country will be more concerned with desertification than invasion by its neighbors.

How will this impact our foreign policy?

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By GodSend, July 7, 2007 at 10:17 am Link to this comment

Here’s another good Blog with a deeper perspective:

http://smokingmirrors.blogspot.com/

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By GodSend, July 7, 2007 at 9:48 am Link to this comment

So here we have this raving, racist, Zionist lunatic ‘Lefty’, trying to drown this Blog in his verbal excrement and gospel of Hate!

Tell us, ‘Lefty’, how would you treat a Palestinian pregnant woman who wants to get to a hospital to have her baby delivered - if you were an IDF border guard? Many such women have been refused such access by the IDF and their babies have died. Would you shoot a Palestinian child, baby, young woman, old woman, old man or bulldoze their homes (shacks, more likely) and olive orchards? It’s what the IDF does, repeatedly - and the world sees it! These Palestinians, kept in Concentration Camps and gulags very similar to Hitler’s and Stalin’s ‘detention facilities’ are human beings, just like you! (come to think of it, I don’t think you qualify as human!) Do you realize that Israel is committing genocide which compares unfavorably with the genocide of the Jews committed by Hitler? - the worst fear of Einstein has been realized! The numbers may not be the same but the principle is!

Eradicating human life in their heartless manner (Palestinians, Lebanese, Americans {9/11}, etc.) will cost Israel and all its supporters DEARLY! It’s just a matter of time - and Time is running out very fast!

SEE! http://holocaustnow.blogspot.com for a lot more of what America’s “friend” Israel is up to.

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By brightman73, July 7, 2007 at 7:37 am Link to this comment

Chris,

As usual, you help me understand all of the issues regarding Israel.  I love your writing and I look forward to your columns at Truthdig.

Thanks again,

Stephanie from Louisiana

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By Ekrem TOS, lawyer-interpreter, July 7, 2007 at 4:59 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Congratulation!

Wonderful article!

As Mr. David DUKE well-described: “America is as occupied as Palestine”.. It’s true!

Ekrem TOS, lawyer/interpreter in Stockholm-Sweden

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By Robert, July 6, 2007 at 10:37 pm Link to this comment

Comment #84697 by Cyrena on 7/6 at 8:39 pm

(Part II- Continued from previous post)
============================================
51 Documents: Zionist Collaboration With The Nazis

“From a Zionist Executive Meeting speech by Yitzhak Gruenbaum on Feb. 18, 1943:

And when some asked me: “Can’t you give money from Keren Ha Yesod (Palestine Foundation Fund) to save Jews in the Diaspora?” I said: “No!” And again I say no….And, because of these things, people called me an anti-Semite, and concluded that I’m guilty, for the fact that we don’t give ourselves completely to rescue actions. (p. 211)

However difficult it may be, the reader must confront some rather disturbing conclusions. The most unsettling realization for this reviewer is that pre-Holocaust Zionists were able to politically align themselves with the Nazis because both groups fundamentally saw race as an important dividing line—and, moreover, were determined to keep it that way. From Vladimir Jabotinsky to Albert Einstein, “assimilation” of Jews into the societies in which they lived was not an acceptable option. Rather, Jewish nationalism required equality on a national level, not a personal one. As Jabotinsky explained, “It is impossible for a man to become assimilated with people whose blood is different from his own” (p. 10); in Einstein’s words, “Palestine is first and foremost not a refuge for East European Jews, but the incarnation of a reawakening sense of national solidarity” (p. 29). Finally, David Yisraeli, a member of the Stern Gang, wrote the following in late 1940, as part of a proposal to Hitler. It was delivered in 1941 to two German diplomats in Lebanon.

3. The establishment of the historic Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis, bound by a treaty with the German Reich, would be in the interest of a maintained and strengthened future German position of power in the Near East (p. 301).

Such beliefs, of course, were not limited to Nazis and Zionists. Scientific and philosophical constructs of the day considered such differentiation legitimate, and ideas of racial difference—and, therefore, racial supremacy—were practiced around the world.

Another disturbing conclusion a reader must inevitably face is that Zionists learned both tactical and political lessons from the Nazis and that, even today, these lessons are applied to further the Zionist cause. Although most likely known to potential readers of this book, another disturbing element is the cover-up of the less than savory roles of current Israeli leaders, including former prime ministers, in the terrorist Irgun and Stern Gang just before, during, and after the Holocaust. Likewise, the succumbing of various U.S. officials to Zionist pressure is a familiar, but distressing, story.

51 Documents seems to represent a renewed attempt by Brenner to bring information regarding Zionist collaboration with the Nazis to U.S. supporters of Israel, as well as to Jews and Muslims, in order to expand dialogue with knowledge, and save lives—both Palestinian and Israeli—in the process. Readers of 51 Documents will find it difficult not to remove the rose colored glasses that so many seem to wear when examining Zionism.”

http://www.wrmea.com/archives/Sept_2004/0409086.html

***********************************************

Cyrena…great post #84697. Our fanatic zionist “lefty=ephraim pesach” is just plainly going hysterical; he is just trying his best to post anything on here to counter the TRUTH. He appears confused & delusional; he keeps posting that same zionist propaganda over and over. He thinks its clever & pretty cute. Go ahead lefty/ephraim…we can’t stop you from posting your “broken zionist record” over and over. He has been lashing out at Christianity and the Islamic religion. Just wonder what he feels about Judaism?

Cyrena you are doing a great job with conveying the TRUTH.

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By Robert, July 6, 2007 at 10:16 pm Link to this comment

Comment #84697 by Cyrena on 7/6 at 8:39 pm

Washington Report on Middle East Affairs

Book Review
51 Documents: Zionist Collaboration With the Nazis

By Lenni Brenner, ed. Barricade Books, 2002,
Reviewed by Sara Powell

“It’s no secret that Zionism embraced political expediency to advance the cause of carving Eretz-Israel from the land of its native inhabitants. In his 1983 book, Zionism in the Age of the Dictators, Lenni Brenner shows that 20th century Zionists observed shockingly few limits to that expediency. Not surprisingly, the book received little coverage in the American media. Now, in 51 Documents, Brenner has compiled a wide variety of letters, statements, articles, and judgements—some of which appeared in his earlier book—by a broad array of activists and authors, that documents Zionist cooperation with the Nazis. On the face of it, the notion seems absurd. However, Brenner presents the case—made in many Zionists’ own words—that the Nazi agenda of expelling the Jews from Germany fit nicely with the Zionist plan for enticing those Jews into settling in Palestine and creating a new Jewish nation.

In addition to introductory and concluding chapters, the book is organized into five sections which lead the reader through early, pre-Zionist documents; pre-Holocaust ideological factions; the Holocaust era itself; and a chapter on the Stern Gang and the Nazis. Readers should note that a few documents are not indicative of collaboration in and of themselves, but provide the background to others written in response. These latter do indicate levels of collaboration between Zionists and fascists, both the Nazis in Germany, and those in Mussolini’s Italy. Brenner’s brief explanatory notes at the beginning of each documentare helpful, as are the glossary and index.

51 Documents assumes a certain knowledge of Zionist history, and requires a close reading and some deconstructive efforts on the part of the reader. Those willing to commit the time and effort, however, are rewarded with some stunning revelations. The reason some Zionists eschewed the boycott against Hitler’s Germany, for instance, is that they had a financial deal—Ha’avara—with Germany allowing Jews to exchange their wealth for goods to be exported to Palestine at less of a loss, as an incentive to emigrate. Those wondering why Zionists today are so organized and experienced in their public relations efforts discover that these battles have been fought before. Moreover, the section on Nazi and Zionist understandings of “nationality” versus citizenship reveals how German and Israeli practices are based on the same concept.

51 Documents also sheds a whole new light on the term “Holocaust guilt,” frequently understood to mean Western, non-Jewish guilt for not acting against the Holocaust earlier. However, these documents make it clear that Holocaust guilt began with those Zionists who made the undoubtedly difficult, but politically expedient choice to place Eretz-Israel at the top of their priorities, above the lives of their threatened European brethren.”

(Part I - continued)

http://www.wrmea.com/archives/Sept_2004/0409086.html

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By cyrena, July 6, 2007 at 9:39 pm Link to this comment

Someone else posted this link a bit earlier in the thread. Very informative.

http://www.counterpunch.org/brenner1223.html

Might be a good companion to this most recent post by lefty.

He’s got some Nazi ties to Palestinian nationalism, and these authors have very strong evidence of the historical ties of the Zionists to the Nazis.

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By Robert, July 6, 2007 at 8:07 pm Link to this comment

Comment #84649 by Ernest Canning on 7/06 at 5:57 pm

Ernest…if I may add the following to your last comment:

“THE ONLY THING NECESSARY FOR THE TRIUMPH OF EVIL IS FOR GOOD MEN TO DO NOTHING.”

By Edmund Burke

************************************************


For truthdig’s readers, commenters, visitors who are searching for the TRUTH…if you are a good man or a good woman concerned as Burke was at the triumph of evil in any form, and you are a good man or a good woman now doing nothing, then ... DO SOMETHING!

Ernest… keep up with the good work towards the TRUTH.

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By cann4ing, July 6, 2007 at 6:57 pm Link to this comment

I have located a better link to a series of lectures by Prof. Jones including his 2/1/06 2 hr. 13 min. presentation.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Steven+E.+Jones

Near the outset of a lecture, Jones provides an apt quote from Patrick Henry.

“We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth….is this part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty….

“For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it might cost, I am willing to know the whole truth: to know…it…now.”

I would encourage my fellow “Truth”-diggers.  If there is but one source you link to at this site, link to this one.  I anxiously await the words of anyone else who does so; to learn whether it proved as profound for you as it has for me.

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By Robert, July 6, 2007 at 5:53 pm Link to this comment

(Part III - from previous posts)

Spy Rumors Fly on Gusts of Truth
Americans Probing Reports of Israeli Espionage

“The men all underwent at least two polygraph tests each, the lawyer added. He said one of the Israelis took the test seven times, a very unusual total according to several polygraph experts interviewed by the Forward.

After the men were arrested, FBI agents searched the warehouse of Urban Moving Systems in Weehawken, N.J., seizing computer hard drives and documents. The warehouse was closed on September 14, said Ron George, a spokesman for the New Jersey State Division of Consumer Affairs.

On December 7, a New Jersey judge ruled that the state could seize the goods remaining inside the warehouse. The state also has a lawsuit pending against Urban Moving Systems and its owner, Dominik Otto Suter, an Israeli citizen.

The FBI questioned Mr. Suter once. However, he left the country afterward and went back to Israel before further questioning. Mr. Suter declined through his lawyer to be interviewed for this article.
Earlier this year, the New York State Department of Transportation revoked Urban Moving System’s license after discovering that the company’s midtown Manhattan base was only a mailing address.

After they returned to Israel at the end of November, the five men told local media that they were kept in solitary confinement, beaten, deprived of food and questioned while blindfolded and in their underwear.

Mr. Ellner, one of the five Israelis, said on two occasions in recent weeks that the five men had decided not to grant any interviews right now “because we went through a very difficult period and we are not ready for this.”

Their Israeli lawyer, Ram Horwitz, told the Forward he was still waiting for the results of the medical tests undertaken by the men in Israel to make a decision on an eventual lawsuit in the United States for mistreatment.

Mr. Horwitz insisted the men were not intelligence officers.

Irit Stoffer, an Israeli Foreign Ministry spokeswoman, said the allegations were “completely untrue” and that there were “only visa violations.”

“The FBI investigated those cases because of 9/11,” Ms. Stoffer said.

Charlene Eban, a spokeswoman for the FBI in Washington, and Don Nelson, a Justice Department spokesman, said they had no knowledge of an Israeli spying operation.

“If we found evidence of unauthorized intelligence operations, that would be classified material,” added Jim Margolin, a spokesman for the FBI in New York.

One leading expert in American intelligence operations, Chip Berlet, a senior analyst at the Boston-based Political Research Associates, explained that there “is a backdoor agreement between allies that says that if one of your spies gets caught and didn’t do too much harm, he goes home. It goes on all the time. The official reason is always a visa violation.”’

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/israelis_9-11.html

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By Robert, July 6, 2007 at 5:49 pm Link to this comment

(Part II - continued from previous post)

Spy Rumors Fly on Gusts of Truth
Americans Probing Reports of Israeli Espionage


“However, the former American official said that after American authorities confronted Jerusalem on the issue at the end of last year, the Israeli government acknowledged the operation and apologized for not coordinating it with Washington.

The five men — Sivan and Paul Kurzberg, Oded Ellner, Omer Marmari and Yaron Shmuel — were arrested eight hours after the attacks by the Bergen County, N.J., police while driving in an Urban Moving Systems van. The police acted on an FBI alertafter the men allegedly were seen acting strangely while watching the events from the roof of their warehouse and the roof of their van.

In addition to their strange behavior and their Middle Eastern looks, the suspicions were compounded when a box cutter and $4,000 in cash were found in the van. Moreover, one man carried two passports and another had fresh pictures of the men standing with the smoldering wreckage of the World Trade Center in the background.

The Bergen County police immediately handed the suspects to the INS, which turned them over to a joint police-FBI terrorism task force set up after September 11 to deal with all possible links with the attacks.

The five Israelis were detained in the high-security Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn in solitary confinement until mid-October.

On September 25, they all signed papers acknowledging violations of Uimmigration law. At the end of October, the INS issued a deportation order which was enforced a month later after a review by the Justice Department and prodding by Jewish and Israeli officials.

However, the former official said, this is just the official story.

In fact, he said, the nature of the investigation changed after the names of two of the five Israelis showed up on a CIA-FBI database of foreign intelligence operatives, he said. At that point, he said, the bureau took control of the investigation and launched a Foreign Counterintelligence Investigation, or FCI.

FBI investigations into possible links to the September 11 attacks are usually carried by the bureau’s counterterrorism division, not its counterintelligence division.

“An FCI means not only that it was serious but also that it was handled at a very high level and very tightly,” the former official said. That view was echoed by several former FBI officials interviewed.
Steven Gordon, an American lawyer hired by the families to help secure their release, said he could not confirm which FBI division was in charge of the investigation. However, he acknowledged that “there were a lot of people involved, including counterintelligence officials from the FBI.”

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/israelis_9-11.html

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By Robert, July 6, 2007 at 5:43 pm Link to this comment

Spy Rumors Fly on Gusts of Truth
Americans Probing Reports of Israeli Espionage

http://www.forward.com/issues/2002/02.03.15/news2.html

By MARC PERELMAN

“Despite angry denials by Israel and its American supporters, reports that Israel was conducting spying activities in the United States may have a grain of truth, the Forward has learned.

However, far from pointing to Israeli spying against U.S. government and military facilities, as reported in Europe last week, the incidents in question appear to represent a case of Israelis in the United States spying on a common enemy, radical Islamic networks suspected of links to Middle East terrorism.

In particular, a group of five Israelis arrested in New Jersey shortly after the September 11 attacks and held for more than two months was subjected to an unusual number of polygraph tests and interrogated by a series of government agencies including the FBI’s counterintelligence division, which by some reports remains convinced that Israel was conducting an intelligence operation. The five
Israelis worked for a moving company with few discernable assets that closed up shop immediately afterward and whose owner fled to Israel.

Other allegations involved Israelis claiming to be art students who had backgrounds in signal interception and ordnance. (See related story, Page 8.)

Sources emphasized that the release of all the Israelis under investigation indicates that they were cleared of any suspicion that they had prior knowledge of the September 11 attacks, as some anti-Israel media outlets have suggested.

The resulting tensions between Washington and Jerusalem, sources told the Forward, arose not because of the operations’ targets but because Israel reportedly violated a secret gentlemen’s agreement between the two countries under which espionage on each other’s soil is
to be coordinated in advance.

Most experts and former officials interviewed for this article said that such so-called unilateral or uncoordinated Israeli monitoring of radical Muslims in America would not be surprising.

In fact, they said, Israeli intelligence played a key role in helping the Bush administration to crack down on Islamic charities suspected of funneling money to terrorist groups, most notably the Richardson, Texas-based Holy Land Foundation last December.

“I have no doubt Israel has an interest in spying on those groups,” said Peter Unsinger, an intelligence expert who teaches justice administration at San Jose University. “The Israelis give us good stuff, like on the Hamas charities.”

According to one former high-ranking American intelligence official, who asked not to be named, the FBI came to the conclusion at the end of its investigation that the five Israelis arrested in New Jersey last September were conducting a Mossad surveillance mission and that their employer, Urban Moving Systems of Weehawken, N.J., served as a front.

After their arrest, the men were held in detention for two-and-a-half months and were deported at the end of November, officially for visa violations.

However, a counterintelligence investigation by the FBI concluded that at least two of them were in fact Mossad operatives, according to the former American official, who said he was regularly briefed on the investigation by two separate law enforcement officials.

“The assessment was that Urban Moving Systems was a front for the Mossad and operatives employed by it,” he said. “The conclusion of the FBI was that they were spying on local Arabs but that they could leave because they did not know anything about 9/11.”

However, he added, the bureau was “very irritated because it was a case of so-called unilateral espionage, meaning they didn’t know about it.”

Spokesmen for the FBI, the Justice Department and the Immigration and Naturalization Service refused to discuss the case. Israeli officials flatly dismissed the allegations as untrue.”
(Part I/Continued)

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/israelis_9-11.html

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By cyrena, July 6, 2007 at 5:37 pm Link to this comment

Ernest,

I concur with your earlier post about the law of physics in the Jones theory. It wasn’t the “loose change” video that caused me to question the 9-11 story, but rather added to it, once the official story was published.

In short, it was my eyes that told me I was watching a lie, (of some sort) when those towers collapsed and exploded, after being hit by those aircraft. (and who knew then, what else they were being hit with).

But, the law of physics is a foundation for the law of areodynamics, which is what made the airplane hits on the towers (and the results) impossible to believe.

Then there were the “crash sites” that really were NOT crash sites, at the Pentagon and in that field. I’ve seen crash sites, up close and personal. Those were not crash sites.

That doesn’t mean that I could in fact say WHAT they were, or what caused the damage, or how any of it even happened. I only know that whatever alledgedly hit the pentagon, it was NOT a Boeing 757 or 767, or any earlier versions of them. It wasn’t a passenger aircraft of ANY type, that hit the Pentagon.

Meantime, I think I have that Jones presentation on a disk that was floating around my neighborhood. So, I’ll check it out.

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By Robert, July 6, 2007 at 3:46 pm Link to this comment

Odigo Workers Received
Warning of 9/11 Attacks

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=77744&contrassID;=/has

“Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11 predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating with Israeli and American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to find the original sender of the message predicting the attack.

Micha Macover, CEO of the company, said the two workers received the messages and immediately after the terror attack informed the company’s management, which immediately contacted the Israeli security services, which brought in the FBI.

“I have no idea why the message was sent to these two workers, who don’t know the sender. It may just have been someone who was joking and turned out they accidentally got it right. And I don’t know if our information was useful in any of the arrests the FBI has made,” said Macover. Odigo is a U.S.-based company whose headquarters are in New York, with offices in Herzliya.

As an instant messaging service, Odigo users are not limited to sending messages only to people on their “buddy” list, as is the case with ICQ, the other well-known Israeli instant messaging application.

Odigo usually zealously protects the privacy of its registered users, said Macover, but in this case the company took the initiative to provide the law enforcement services with the originating Internet Presence address of the message, so the FBI could track down the Internet Service Provider, and the actual sender of the original message.”

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/odigo_9-11_warning.html

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By Inherit The Wind, July 6, 2007 at 3:32 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Robert on 7/06 at 1:37 pm
(212 comments total)

Comment #84481 by Ernest Canning on 7/6 at 7:44 am

Ernest…here is a link to WTC 7. Click to hear what CBS anchor Dan Rather was commenting/reporting on Sept. 11 at approx. 5:30 pm EST.; plus, other details and videos related to WTC 7.

“THE CONTROLLED COLLAPSE OF WTC 7”

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc7.html

Oh, No!!!! It’s tinfoil hat time again!

And JFK was killed by aliens from outer space to try to keep us from going to the moon…rubber room time.

Oh, No!!!! It’s tinfoil hat time again!

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By Richard, July 6, 2007 at 3:08 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Hedges can best be judged by the company he attracts, informs and inspires. Anyone reading some of these comments about Jews, Bush, and the United States must think that the very gates of Bellevue have been opened. Too bad. Hedges has fallen far from his glory days at the Times.

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By Robert, July 6, 2007 at 2:37 pm Link to this comment

Comment #84481 by Ernest Canning on 7/6 at 7:44 am


Ernest…here is a link to WTC 7. Click to hear what CBS anchor Dan Rather was commenting/reporting on Sept. 11 at approx. 5:30 pm EST.; plus, other details and videos related to WTC 7.

“THE CONTROLLED COLLAPSE OF WTC 7”

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc7.html

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By Robert, July 6, 2007 at 2:07 pm Link to this comment

Comment #84367 by Ernest Canning on 7/5 at 7:18 pm

Ernest…here is a link to an MIT Engineer discussing WTC on 9/11:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1822764959599063248


I had bookmarked another link related to 9/11 which was a very good one, but when you click on it now, all you get is an “ERROR” and NOT available.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5946593973848835726&hl=en


The 2 hours plus video that you provided in your post #84367 is one of the best ones that are available. I have already passing it on to all my friends & contacts.

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By Robert, July 6, 2007 at 11:48 am Link to this comment

Comment #84426 by Cyrena on 7/6 at 1:12 am

Cyrena…here is one more link. I forgot that I had it bookmarked. It has a lot of information/details regarding 9/11 events and lots of places to click on for additional details/verifications.


http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fiveisraelis.html

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By Robert, July 6, 2007 at 11:25 am Link to this comment

Comment #84426 by Cyrena on 7/6 at 1:12 am

Cyrena…take some time to watch this 19 minute video. Watch Britt Hume & Carl Cameron on tv report with details regarding 9/11 activities & events. FYI…YouTube has taken their video out of their list.

BTW… ITW you can call Britt Hume & Carl Cameron anti-semitic ...too, if you like. Has anyone seen Carl Cameron reporting lately? Wonder what happened to him since these reports?

ITW…your zionist mate, lefty"ephraim/pesach”, is doing a brilliant performance with his posts. We need him on this and other threads. He is glowing with compassion, humanity ...!!! Great job with those nickel posts…lefty=ephraim. Your posts are clever & cute!

Sorry Cyrena…I couldn’t resist for a second. So here is the link to the video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6110095161238848541

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By cann4ing, July 6, 2007 at 8:44 am Link to this comment

Cyrena, I have seen “Loose Change” before.  I wasn’t convinced by it, though it raised many disturbing questions.  What makes the presentation by Professor Jones so compelling is that he demonstrates how the “official” theories defy the laws of physics.

ITW, you would really do well to view Professor Jones’s presentation.  First, it demonstrates that the twin towers could not have collapsed in the manner they did from the impact of the planes.  If the impact had been that powerful, the buildings would have tumbled to one side.  Temblor activity would not have explained their collapsing into their own footprints.  Jones demostrates the manifestly different manner in which buildings collapse during earthquakes.

This was the first (and only) time in history where the collapse of a high rise building was attributed to fire.  Jones presents videos of a building in Spain that had been subjected to a far more widespread and intense fire, yet did not collapse.

You overlook the collapse of WTC 7 which was “not” struck by a plane.  Comparative films demonstrate that the rapid decent of WTC 7 when it collapsed into its own footprint was precisely what occurs in controlled demolition.  Not included in the Jones presentation, but available elsewhere is a 9/11 televised interview of Mayor Guiliani in which he stated that he was told by FEMA ten to fifteen minutes in advance that the building was going to come down. 

I had always assumed that even if controlled demolition was involved, that doesn’t rule out that the demolition was carried out by al Qaeda, yet Jones made short work of my theory.  WTC 7 houses offices of key U.S. intelligence agencies and was one of the most heavily guarded in the U.S.

Amongst the numerous disturbing pieces of evidence Prof. Jones assembled is film and expert analysis showing that the individual depicted by the government in the video purporting to be Osama bin Laden talking with confederates about the attack—the film publicly displayed as the administration was preparing to go into Afghanistan, was most certainly “not” Osama bin Laden.  He is heavier, has a different nose and is right-handed whereas Osama is left handed.

Why would the adminstration present a video that was a forgery?  I suppose the reasons were the same as when this administration relied upon a crude forgery to support its fraudulent claim that Saddam Hussein was seeking to obtain large quantities of uranium from Niger.

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By cann4ing, July 6, 2007 at 8:19 am Link to this comment

Peter RV.  You really should register.  Your post will appear much faster.  When you post as an unregistered guest, there is a significant delay in the posting, and when it does appear, it is not at the top, where most recent posts appear, but stuck somewhere in the middle based on the time you originally submitted the post.  I suspect that is why you have trouble finding your initial post.

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By Inherit The Wind, July 6, 2007 at 5:01 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ernest:
You and I usually vehemently disagree but in your two rather lengthy points I have only one serious disagreement:
I think you inadvertently didn’t realize that while Hitler didn’t start the Reichstag fire (a fact I question, but let’s accept it for now) what he did do was CAPITALIZE on it.

I don’t think it’s anything more than conspiracy theory bullshit that Bush or Mossad were behind the WTC bombing. But, as you noted, Bush DID capitalize on it exactly as Hitler did.  Here, George W. Bush had a chance to break through party differences and make decisions that would leave his footprint in the sands of history—now it’s just the mark of a heel.

Notice the conspiracy theorists are picking up on the BS put forth by Arab apologists.  They ignore three HUGE facts in the “Mossad behind it” nonsense.  Many, many Jews were in the WTC and Mossad would not attack Jews.  Cantor-Fitzgerald owned 3 floors and lost the most people. Cantor is, of course, Jewish.
Second, the down-side of being caught attacking the WTC would be DEVASTATING for Israel—an unmitigated act of war that NO American, Jew or Gentile could let slide. Too high risk, too little gain for the risk.

Finally, to assume that Arabs couldn’t do this is to assume they are inferior mentally. The attacks on the WTC and the Pentagon were brutally brilliant in their simplicity. They were elegant in maximization of force. Amazingly, they weren’t even original! “Black Sunday” was a movie about a similar attack on a football stadium.  Tom Clancy, in “Debt of Honor” has a crazed Japanese commercial pilot steer his 747 into the US Capital.  You don’t need a lot of technical preparation for an attack that’s never been used except in fiction. They played off the standard rules for hijacking: Comply until the plane is on the ground, because hijackers usually want to go somewhere or have demands.

I’ve seen the garbage conspiracy theories about how these planes couldn’t have brought down the WTC, but the fact is that the WTC was built to withstand being hit by a 707, not a 767, which didn’t exist then.  The Empire State Building was hit by a bomber (a B-17 I think?) and survived—my mother was a young woman and SAW that plane hit.  A good friend was in the Amex Building and saw the second plane hit the south tower, right over his head…Another friend, in Virginia, actually saw the plane hit the Pentagon from his office window(another myth busted).

There’s a HUGE difference between being capable of planning and carrying out the attacks on 911 AND not leaving evidence behind, and simply, opportunistically and cynically grabbing power as a result.  Occam’s Razor tells us that the simplest solution is the solution.  Saudi fanatics seizing planes and flying them into the towers and the Pentagon is simple, clear, elegant(don’t misunderstand the word) and fits all the real facts.

I am more disturbed that the anti-semites (like Robert) are now, after 5 1/2 years, buying into the bullshit from the Arab world that Jews were behind it—as part of their ongoing propaganda effort to convince the world that Hitler (whom their leaders admire) was right and all Jews should be slaughtered.

Our leaders are opportunistic fascists. They are good at acquiring power.  But they are atrociously incompetent at wielding it and present the greatest threat to American security since the secession of the CSA.  They will, in their greed, tyranny, and short-sightedness, BUMBLE America into falling as a great power and as the moral beacon we have been for 231 years.

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By authoralan, July 6, 2007 at 2:31 am Link to this comment

Robert:

I’ve always thought it was not unreasonable to assume that if the 9/11 plot started out as a pure Arab/Muslim thing, Mossad would have had it penetrated and would have known the operation was running. In that case the question would be - Did Mossad pass to the CIA what it knew, and if it did, whay use did the CIA make of the info? (Who did the CIA tell?)

But for me the most intriguing question is this: What hit the Pentagon? It wasn’t a plane, was it?

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By cyrena, July 6, 2007 at 2:12 am Link to this comment

#84419 by Robert on 7/06 at 12:11 am

Thanks Robert, for these links, and the info about those 4000 Israelis in the “vicinity” of the WTC, that somehow managed to miss the death and destruction.

I’d never read this, (which is why I always appreciate these links) but I’ll tell you this…the days leading up to those attacks found our nations’ airports almost “ghostly” quiet. Just nothing close to the same passenger volume level that would be associated with that time of the year, or any time really. The passenger loads for the flights involved in the disaster were oddly low. So low in fact, that it would not have been out of the ordinary for these airlines to cancel and/or combine the passenger loads on these flights with others, just because it is a major revenue loss to operate these less than ¼ full aircraft. By the time the operating expenses are calculated, (fuel, crew, and related things) the airline, (and it doesn’t matter WHICH airline) can only go well into the hole, on such operations.

Of course one doesn’t expect all flights to operate at 100% capacity, (though that is the goal of the Corporate commercial airline industry) so the occasional “spoilage” (empty seats on any given flight) can and does balance out in the bottom line. However, at that time and place in history, it’s next to unprecedented, for all of these flights to have been operating at such low capacity.

Just one of the MANY things that were so totally bizarre about the whole thing. And, that doesn’t even get into how these alleged 19 highjackers were able to get through the security that should have caught at least some of them, because there are multiple backups embedded in the security protocol for the airline industry in general, and I know damn well, that they didn’t all fail at the same time.

Anyway, thanks for the info.

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By Peter RV, July 6, 2007 at 2:09 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

First, I am being thanked for sending it , then ...nothing.
Beginning to believe my posts are really subversive or seditious, what else could be the reason for their disappearance?
Perhaps I should take lessons from Mr. Lefty in moderation and good manners?
Does anyone else have the same problem?

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By cyrena, July 6, 2007 at 1:37 am Link to this comment

#84330 by outrider on 7/05 at 4:39 pm

Outrider, I have to say that you narrowed it right down to the source.

....“If Israel is as rich, powerful and independent as it professes to be, they should be too proud to take our money or ask for our help.  It has its own nuclear weapons.  They don’t need us and we don’t need them or their neocon agents intermeddling in our domestic and foreign affairs. Israel has invaded and occupied the United States’ government.  I think they should withdraw their “troops” now.”....
************************

I’ve only reproduced this portion of your post, though the entire thing was excellent. But, I couldn’t have said it better, about the need for this “withdrawal of their troops” from our government.

We’ve known of course for years, that the U.S. government has funded Israel, for “whatever” the reasons. I honestly never questioned it back in the early part of my “taxpaying” years. I never had anything “personal” against the American Jews that I knew, so I just never thought much about the relationship between Israel and the U.S.

But, over the years, we’ve seen that we give more and more, and MORE money to Israel, and it finally dawned on me, that there was no “reciprocity”. In other words, there has never been a single solitary thing that Israel had done for the American population at large, to deserve this money.

Meantime, even more time has brought us to even LARGER sums of our money and defense systems, spent on Israel, and while that is happening, we’re looking around here at home, eyes cast on our own family and neighbors, and we see that we don’t provide health care, we don’t even take care of our veterans that have gone to fight for Israel, and returned home to what…broken minds and shattered bodies, and…homeless. Veterans on the street.

We have a huge portion of the population living at the depths of poverty, and yet….billions go to Israel. Trillions have been spent to destroy Iraq, on behalf of Israel and it’s representatives in our government, since the one thing that Israel didn’t get when she declared her zionist existence on that land, was the oil and water that those dreaded Arabs still controlled. Both are scarce in Israel, and that means that the Zionist state has yet to be “complete”. Not without access to the oil of it’s neighbors, or the limited water resources, or the fish in the sea. They don’t want anybody to have any of that.

Meantime, we keep giving them money and more blood (all ours) to wash through the sands of the Middle East. So, we really do have to stop and ask…at what point do we take our government back, and spend these billions on our own citizens, instead of Israel and the all consuming pursuit of global power.

So maybe the title of this should be different, maybe it should be…When do we recognize ISRAEL’S independence from US? When do we cut off the spout, and stop giving them the handouts? They say they wish to be recognized as a soverign state, so they shouldn’t be dependant on our money for that.

Cheney, Halliburton, Wolfowitz, Abrams, Libby, Silverstein and all of the others can continue to support Israel, as I’m sure they will. Matter of fact, there’s no doubt that’s why Halliburton is now located in Dubai. BUT, they’ll have to start financing their “private state” with their own dollars, even those those too, have been stolen from us.

They aren’t going to “withdraw” from our government voluntarily, but they can be made to leave.

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By Robert, July 6, 2007 at 1:11 am Link to this comment

Comment #84417 by Cyrena on 7/5 at 11:46 pm

Mossad - The Israeli
Connection To 911

By Christopher Bollyn
Exclusive to American Free Press

ISRAELIS FOREWARNED
 
“On September 12, 2001, the Internet edition of The Jerusalem Post reported, “The Israeli foreign ministry has collected the names of 4,000 Israelis believed to have been in the areas of the World Trade Center and the Pentagon at the time of the attack.”
 
Yet only one Israeli was killed at the WTC and two were reportedly killed on the “hijacked” aircraft.
 
Although a total of three Israeli lives were reportedly lost on 9/11, speechwriters for President George W. Bush grossly inflated the number of Israeli dead to 130 in the president’s address to a joint session of Congress on September 20, 2001.
 
The fact that only one Israeli died at the WTC, while 4,000 Israelis were thought to have been at the scene of the attacks on 9/11 naturally led to a widespread rumor, blamed on Arabic sources, that Israelis had been forewarned to stay away that day.
 
“Whether this story was the origin of the rumor,” Bret Stephens, the Post’s editor-in-chief wrote in 2003, “I cannot say. What I can say is that there was no mistake in our reporting.

 

 

ODIGO INSTANT MESSAGES
 
Evidence that Israelis had been forewarned several hours before the attacks surfaced at an Israeli instant messaging service, known as Odigo. This story, clear evidence of Israeli prior knowledge, was reported only briefly in the U.S. media - and quickly forgotten.
 
At least two Israel-based employees of Odigo received warnings of an imminent attack in New York City more than two hours before the first plane hit the WTC. Odigo had its U.S. headquarters two blocks from the WTC. The Odigo employees, however, did not pass the warning on to the authorities in New York City, a move that could have saved thousands of lives.
 
Odigo has a feature called People Finder that allows users to seek out and contact others based on certain demographics, such as Israeli nationality.”

http://www.rense.com/general64/moss.htm

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By cyrena, July 6, 2007 at 12:46 am Link to this comment

#84367 by Ernest Canning on 7/05 at 7:18 pm

•  Tony, like you, I had been skeptical of claims of official complicity in 9/11, though I did feel that the “9/11 truthers” had raised significant questions that warranted an open and fair investigation.  However, after viewing a more than 2 hour video of a lecture given by Physics Professor Steven E. Jones on 2/1/06, I must admit that he makes a pretty compelling case, which suggests that Cheney was at the middle of it……..

Add me to the list or original skeptics of the “inside job” theory, because I did in fact dismiss it originally. I believe that we have all been socialized to believe that such a thing simply could not be possible.

YET, because I’ve spent my “1st career” in the commercial airline industry, I knew there were things that didn’t make sense. Too many things. So, maybe after the shock wore off, and because there simply were far too many things that could not be reconciled by the “official” report, it required (for me at least) that I look at some other information. And, I’ve had to come away with the same horrific conclusions…
This was a Cheney project, (and probably assisted by Rumsfeld) and george may or may not have known. I’m still not sure how much he may have had to do with it. It’s hard to tell with him.

But, it doesn’t change the outcome, which is that it was intentional, and we know the carnage that resulted.

On the video’s, I’m thinking that the link you were unable to connect to, may have been an old one. (I’m just guessing here). There is a new one, produced by “loose change” and it’s a “recut”, or what might better be called an “update”. You can access it, (or at least I did last week) through the link I’ve provided below. The other link (911truth.org) is excellent as well, because it provides a variety of resources.

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20070625170907200

        http://www.loosechange911.com/lc2e.htm

Thanks again for your always informative posts. You too Tony.

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By Robert, July 6, 2007 at 12:38 am Link to this comment

Victor Ostrovsky: How Mossad got America to bomb Libya and Fight Iraq

On April 14, 1986, one hundred and sixty American aircraft dropped over sixty tons of bombs on Libya. The attackers bombed Tripoli international airport, Bab al Azizia barracks, Sidi Bilal naval base, the city of Benghazi, and the Benine airfield outside Benghazi. The strike force consisted of two main bodies, one originating in England and the other from flattops in the Mediterranean. From England came twenty-four F-111s from Lakenheath, five EF-111s from Upper Heyford, and twenty-eight refueling tankers from Mildenhall and Fairford. In the attack, the air force F-111s and the EF-111s were joined by eighteen A-6 and A-7 strike and strike support aircraft, six F\A-18 fighters, fourteen EA-6B electronic jammer planes, and other support platforms. The navy planes were catapulted from the carriers Coral Sea and America. On the Libyan side, there were approximately forty civilian casualties, including Qadhafi’s adopted daughter. On the American side, a pilot and his weapons officer were killed when their F-111 exploded.

After the bombing, the Hizballah broke off negotiations regarding the hostages they held in Beirut and executed three of them, including one American named Peter Kilburn. As for the French, they were rewarded for their non-participation in the attack by the release at the end of June of two French journalists held hostage in Beirut. (As it happened, a stray bomb hit the French embassy in Tripoli during the raid.)

Ephraim had spelled it all out for me and confirmed some of the information I’d already known. He then went on. “After the bombing of Libya, our friend Qadhafi is sure to stay out of the picture for some time. Iraq and Saddam Hussein are the next target. We’re starting now to build him up as the big villain. It will take some time, but in the end, there’s no doubt it’ll work.”

“But isn’t Saddam regarded as moderate toward us, allied with Jordan, the big enemy of Iran and Syria?”

“Yes, that’s why I’m opposed to this action. But that’s the directive, and I must follow it. Hopefully, you and I will be done with our little operation before anything big happens. After all, we have already destroyed his nuclear facility, and we are making money by selling hlm technology and equipment through South Africa.”

In the following weeks, more and more discoveries were made regarding the big gun and other elements of the Saddam war machine. The Mossad had all but saturated the intelligence field with information regarding the evil intentions of Saddam the Terrible, banking on the fact that before long, he’d have enough rope to hang himself. It was very clear what the Mossad’s overall goal was. It wanted the West to do its bidding, just as the Americans had in Libya with the bombing of Qadhafi. After all, Israel didn’t possess carriers and ample air power, and although it was capable of bombing a refugee camp in Tunis, that was not the same. The Mossad leaders knew that if they could make Saddam appear bad enough and a threat to the Gulf oil supply, of which he’d been the protector up to that point, then the United States and its allies would not let him get away with anything, but would take measures that would all but eliminate his army and his weapons potential, especially if they were led to believe that this might just be their last chance before he went nuclear.

Ostrovsky knows that being famous keeps him alive.

About the Author: Victor Ostrovsky was raised in Israel, but was born in Canada. At eighteen he became the youngest officer in the Israeli military, eventually rising to the rank of lieutenant commander in charge of naval weapons testing.

He was a Mossad case officer from 1984-1986

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By Robert, July 6, 2007 at 12:29 am Link to this comment

Victor Ostrovsky: How Mossad got America to bomb Libya and fight Iraq

By the end of March, the Americans were already intercepting messages broadcast by the Trojan, which was only activated during heavy communication traffic hours. Using the Trojan, the Mossad tried to make it appear that a long series of terrorist orders were being transmitted to various Libyan embassies around the world (or, as they were called by the Libyans, Peoples’ Bureaus). As the Mossad had hoped, the transmissions were deciphered by the Americans and construed as ample proof that the Libyans were active sponsors of terrorism. What’s more, the Americans pointed out, Mossad reports confirmed it.

The French and the Spanish, though, were not buying into the new stream of information. To them, it seemed suspicious that suddenly, out of the blue, the Libyans, who’d been extremely careful in the past, would start advertising their future actions. They also found it suspicious that in several instances Mossad reports were worded similarly to coded Libyan communications. They argued further that, had there truly been after-the-fact Libyan communications regarding the attack, then the terrorist attack on the La Belle discotheque in West Berlin on April 5 could have been prevented, since surely there would have been communications before, enabling intelligence agencies listening in to prevent It. Since the attack wasn’t prevented, they reasoned that it must not be the Libyans who did it, and the “new communications” must be bogus. The French and the Spanish were right. The information was bogus, and the Mossad didn’t have a clue who planted the bomb that killed one American serviceman and wounded several others. But the Mossad was tied in to many of the European terrorist organizations, and it was convinced that in the volatile atmosphere that had engulfed Europe, a bombing with an American victim was just a matter of time Heads of the Mossad were counting on the American promise to retaliate with vengeance against any country that could be proven to support terrorism. The Trojan gave the Americans the proof they needed. The Mossad also plugged into the equation Qadhafi’s lunatic image and momentous declarations, which were really only meant for internal consumption.

It must be remembered that Qadhafi had marked a line in the water at that time, closing off the Gulf of Sidra as Libyan territorial waters and calling the new maritime border the line of death (an action that didn’t exactly give him a moderate image). Ultimately, the Americans fell for the Mossad ploy head over heels dragging the British and the Germans somewhat reluctantly in with them. Operation Trojan was one of the Mossad’s greatest successes. It brought about the air strike on Libya that President Reagan had promised - a strike that had three important consequences. First, it derailed a deal for the release of the American hostages in Lebanon, thus preserving the Hizballah (Party of God) as the number one enemy in the eyes of the West. Second, it sent a message to the entire Arab world, telling them exactly where the United States stood regarding the Arab-Israeli conflict. Third, it boosted the Mossad’s image of itself, since it was they who, by ingenious sleight of hand, had prodded the United States to do what was right. It was only the French who didn’t buy into the Mossad trick and were determined not to ally themselves with the aggressive American act. The French refused to allow the American bombers to fly over their territory on their way to attack Libya.

(Part IV- continued)

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By Robert, July 6, 2007 at 12:25 am Link to this comment

Victor Ostrovsky: How Mossad got America to bomb Libya and fight Iraq

Two miles off the Libyan coast, the lights of Tripoli could be seen glistening in the southeast. Eight commandos slipped quietly into the plgs and headed for shore. The birds stayed behind at the rendezvous pomt, ready to take action should the situation arise. Once they reached the beach, the commandos left their cigarlike transporters submerged in the shallow water and headed inland, carrying a dark green Trojan cylinder six feet long and seven inches in diameter. It took two men to carry it.

A gray van was parked on the side of the road about one hundred feet from the water, on the coastal highway leading from Sabratah to Tripoli and on to Benghazi. There was hardly any traffic at that time of night. The driver of the van seemed to be repairing a flat tire. He stopped working as the team approached and opened the back doors of the van. He was a Mossad combatant. Without a word said, four of the men entered the van and headed for the city. The other four returned to the water, where they took a defensive position by the submerged pigs. Their job was to hold this position to ensure an escape route for the team now headed for the city.

At the same time, a squadron of Israeli fighters was refueling south of Crete, ready to assist. They were capable of keeping any ground forces away from the commandos, allowing them a not-soclean getaway. At this point, the small commando unit was divided into three details - its most vulnerable state. Were any of the details to run into enemy forces, they were instructed to act with extreme prejudice before the enemy turned hostile.

The van parked at the back of an apartment building on Al Jamhuriyh Street in Tripoli, less than three blocks away from the Bab al Azizia barracks that were known to house Qadhafi’s headquarters and residence. By then, the men in the van had changed into civilian clothing. Two stayed with the van as lookouts and the other two helped the Mossad combatant take the cylinder to the top floor of the five-story building. The cylinder was wrapped in a carpet.

In the apartment, the top section of the cylinder was opened and a small dishlike antenna was unfolded and placed in front of the windowfacing north. The unit was activated, and the Trojan horse was in place.

The Mossad combatant had rented the apartment for six months and had paid the rent in advance. There was no reason for anyone except the combatant to enter the apartment. However, if someone should decide to do so, the Trojan would self-destruct, taking with it most of the upper part of the building. The three men headed back to the van and to their rendezvous with their friends on the beach.

After dropping the commandos at the beach, the combatant headed back for the city, where he would monitor the Trojan unit for the next few weeks. The commandos wasted no time and headed out to sea. They didn’t want to be caught in Libyan waters at daybreak. They reached the birds and headed at full speed to a prearranged pickup coordinate, where they met with the missile boats that had brought them in.

(Part III - continued)

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By Robert, July 6, 2007 at 12:21 am Link to this comment

How Mossad got America to Bomb Libya and Fight Iraq

By Victor Ostrovsky

“It’s the old Trojan dick trick.” He lit a cigarette.

“What’s that?” I couldn’t help smiling; I’d never heard it called that before.

“I knew that would get your attention,” he said, grinning. “Shimon activated Operation Trojan in February of this year.”

I nodded. I’d still been in the Mossad when that order was given, and because of my naval background and acquaintance with most of the commanders in the navy, I participated in the planning for the operation as liaison with the navy.

A Trojan was a special communication device that could be planted by naval commandos deep inside enemy territory. The device would act as a relay station for misleading transmissions made by the disinformation unit in the Mossad, called LAP, and intended to be received by American and British listening stations. Originating from an IDF navy ship out at sea, the prerecorded digital transmissions could be picked up only by the Trojan. The device would then rebroadcast the transmission on another frequency, one used for official business in the enemy country, at which point the transmission would finally be picked up by American ears in Britain.

The listeners would have no doubt they had intercepted a genuine communication, hence the name Trojan, reminiscent of the mythical Trojan horse. Further, the content of the messages, once deciphered, would confirm information from other intelligence sources, namely the Mossad. The only catch was that the Trojan itself would have to be located as close as possible to the normal origin of such transmissions, because of the sophisticated methods of triangulation the Americans and others would use to verify the source.

In the particular operation Ephraim was referring to, two elite units in the military had been made responsible for the delivery of the Trojan device to the proper location. One was the Matkal reconnaissance unit and the other was Flotilla 13, the naval commandos. The commandos were charged with the task of planting the Trojan device in Tripoli, Libya.

On the night of February 17-18, two Israeli missile boats, the SAAR 4-class Moledet, armed with Harpoon and Gabriel surface-tosurface missiles, among other weaponry, and the Geula, a Hohit-class mlsslle boat with a helicopter pad and regular SAAR 4-class armament, conducted what seemed like a routine patrol of the Mediterranean, heading for the Sicilian channel and passing just outside the territorial waters of Libya. Just north of Tripoli, the warships, which were vlsible to radar both in Tripoli and on the Italian island of Lampedusa, slowed down to about four knots - just long enough to allow a team of twelve naval commandos in four wet submarines nicknamed “pigs” and two low-profiled speedboats called “birds” to disembark. The pigs could carry two commandos each and all their fighting gear.

The birds, equipped with an MG 7.62-caliber machine gun mounted over the bow and an array of antitank shoulder-carried missiles, could facilitate six commandos each, while towing the empty plgs. The birds brought the pigs as close to the shore as possible, thus cutting down the distance the pigs would have to travel on their own. (The pigs were submersible and silent but relatively slow.)

(Part II - continued)

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By Robert, July 6, 2007 at 12:16 am Link to this comment

How Mossad Got America to Bomb Libya and Fight Iraq

by, Victor Ostrovsky and Claire Hoy

Revealing the facts as I know them from my vantage point of four years spent inside the Mossad was by no means an easy task.

Coming from an ardent Zionist background, I had been taught that the state of Israel was incapable of misconduct. That we were the David in the unending struggle against the ever-growing Goliath. That there was no one out there to protect us but ourselves - a feeling reinforced by the Holocaust survivors who lived among us.

We, the new generation of Israelites, the resurrected nation on its own land after more than two thousand years of exile, were entrusted with the fate of the nation as a whole.

The commanders of our army were called champions, not generals. Our leaders were captains at the helm of a great ship. I was elated when I was chosen and granted the privilege to join what I considered to be the elite team of the Mossad.

But it was the twisted ideals and self-centered pragmatism that I encountered inside the Mossad, coupled with this so-called team’s greed, lust, and total lack of respect for human life, that motivated me to tell this story.

It is out of love for Israel as a free and just country that I am laying my life on the line by so doing, facing up to those who took it upon themselves to turn the Zionist dream into the present-day nightmare.

The Mossad, being the intelligence body entrusted with the responsibility of plotting the course for the leaders at the helm of the nation, has betrayed that trust. Plotting on its own behalf, and for petty, self-serving reasons, it has set the nation on a collision course with all-out war.

One of the main themes of this book is Victor’s belief that Mossad is out of control, that even the prime minister, although ostensibly in charge, has no real authority over its actions ...

The Mossad - believe it or not - has just 30 to 35 case officers, or katsas, operating in the world at any one time. The main reason for this extraordinary low total, as you will read in this book, is that unlike other countries, Israel can tap the significant and loyal cadre of the worldwide Jewish community outside Israel. This is done through a unique system of sayanim, volunteer Jewish helpers.

My first six weeks were uneventful. I worked at the downtown office, essentially as a gofer and filing clerk. But one chilly day in February 1984, I found myself joining 14 others on a small bus. ... This course was to be known as Cadet 16, as it was the sixteenth course of Mossad cadets.

He walked briskly to the head of the table while the other two sat at the back of the room. “My name is Aharon Sherf,” he said. “I am the head of the Academy. Welcome to the Mossad. Its full name is Ha Mossad, le Modiyn ve le Tafkidim Mayuhadim [the Institute for Intelligence and Special Operations]. Our motto is: ‘By way of deception, thou shalt do war.’

“It’s the old Trojan dick trick.” He lit a cigarette.

(Part I - continued in next post)

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By cann4ing, July 5, 2007 at 11:38 pm Link to this comment

Response to ITW, Part II

From a practical standpoint, the phrase “war on terror” borders on a meaningless oxymoron.  Gen. Wm. Odom (U.S. Army Ret.) noted, “Terrorism is not an enemy.  It cannot be defeated.  It’s a tactic.  It’s about as sensible to say we declare war on night attacks and expect we’re going to win that war.”  But from the perspective of the Orwellian sociopaths of America’s hard-right lies in the fact that it is a war that cannot be won and can never end.  It entails the concept of perpetual war against an unseen enemy who is everywhere and anywhere at all times.

In George Orwell’s “1984” the English language was reconstructed into Newspeak “not only to provide a medium of expression for the world view and mental habits of [the Party] but to make other modes of thought impossible.”  Despite the fact that, with the exception of civil and revolutionary wars, the concept of “war” is limited conflicts amongst nation-states, a nation whose psyche was badly damaged with each televised replay of the collapse of the twin towers proved inacapable of questioning either the that 9/11 was an act of “war or that waging a perpetual “war on terror” was the only logical response to that horrific crime.  Yet, the distinction was not lost on the author of the radically subversive “Unitary Executive” theory at his confirmation hearings.  Senator Linsey Graham:  “Do you believe the attacks against our nation on 9/11 were a crime or an act of war?  Judge Alito:  “That’s a hard question to answer”—Graham cut him off, asking, “Do you doubt that our nation has been in an armed conflict with a terrorist organization since 9/11…?”  Alito:  “In a lay sense, certainly we have been in a conflict with a terrorist organization.  I am just concerned that in the law all these phrases have meaning…”

Have meaning, indeed.  Under Unitary Executive theory, the president’s war powers are virtually unlimited.  If the president believes that torture, extraordinary renditions, warrantless domestic surveilance, or the suspension of habeas corpus are necessary components of a war on terror, the Federalist Society jurists believe that neither Congress nor the Courts have the power to stop him.  Under Unitary Executive theory, it is meaningless to talk about whether the President is above the law.  He “is” the law.  There are four Federalist Society jurists on the Supreme Court.  One more and they will have a majority—then bye, bye rule of law.

Many of the self-described “9/11 truthers” point to the PNAC statement that it would take a new Pearl Harbor to get the American people to accept their radical goals as supporting complicity.  I am more intrigued by the speed with which this supposedly incompetent administration was able to deliver to the Congress a more than 700 page Patriot Act along with a resolution to authorize the use of force.  Complex legislation cannot be drafted over night.  How could all of this have been in place if there was no advance knowledge of what was to come?

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By Robert, July 5, 2007 at 11:36 pm Link to this comment

“As a concept, Zionism has been endlessly debated among Zionists as well as between Zionists and others. To many Jews Zionism means primarily the movement to establish a homeland where Jewish people could find refuge from persecution. Its founders saw Zionism as providing the only means of escape from the pervasive anti-Semitism of 19th century Europe. Some of the early Zionists, such as Theodore Herzl and Chaim Weizmann, advocated a Jewish state in which the Arabs of Palestine would play only a subordinate role. Weizmann, in fact, recognized that Arabs were in the great majority in that country but hoped most of them could be made to leave.

Others, like Martin Buber and Judah Magnes, believed that since the Arabs of Palestine as well as the Jews had national aspirations, the Zionist movement must be concerned with finding a solution equitable to both peoples. Saying, in Isaiah’s words, “Zion will be redeemed with justice,” Buber urged that Palestine become a haven for Jews fleeing persecution but with a bi-national political structure. To Buber, Ahad Ha’am, and other advocates of a bi-national state, Zionism meant a chance for Jews to experience spiritual and intellectual renewal, in a society based on justice, equality, and hard work.

Like Magnes himself, their vision of Zionism died in 1948, when Israel became a Jewish state and Palestinian Arabs were forced into exile or into subservience. UN Resolution 2106, adopted in 1965, defines racial discrimination as “any distinction, restriction, or preference based on race, color, descent or national origin. ” Under this definition Israel has been a racist state since its beginning.

With 92 percent of Israel’s land considered to be the “inalienable property of the Jewish people” (under the Development Authority Law), Arabs are prevented from living in any but limited areas. Although Israeli Arabs theoretically are entitled to equal treatment, their houses are demolished to make way for Israeli Jews. Last June, for instance, the Arab residents of Ramyah, in the Galilee, were ordered to evacuate the town by September 16, when it was to be demolished to make way for the expansion of the Jewish city of Carmel. More than a hundred similar Arab communities in the Galilee are also threatened with obliteration.

For the nearly two million Palestinians in the occupied territories the harshness of Israeli rule recalls the darkest days of South Africa’s apartheid regime. Inhabitants of the West Bank and Gaza must obtain permits for almost every activity, from traveling to another town to planting a fruit tree. These permits are issued arbitrarily and frequently refused. Through stifling restrictions on movement, land confiscations, and almost constant curfews, Israel has made it almost impossible for most Palestinians to earn a living. Unemployment in the occupied territories is now close to 75 percent.

The Israeli government demonstrates its most blatant racism in the value it places on human lives. The official consensus in Israel is that a Jewish life is far more precious than a Palestinian’s. A Palestinian who murders an Israeli Jew is either killed on the spot or disappears into prison forever. Israelis who kill Palestinians are punished lightly if at all. Early in September two members of the security forces were sentenced to six months in prison for the deliberate murder of a Palestinian prisoner in 1989. Rabbi Moshe Levinger served three months in jail after shooting to death a Hebron storekeeper. Israeli settlers who rampage through Palestinian villages terrorizing the inhabitants are almost never punished—indeed, they are armed by the government.

Finally, who can question Israel’s official racism when the Law of Return allows anyone in the world born of a Jewish mother to settle permanently in Israel, whereas native-born Palestinians forced into exile are either barred from returning at all or allowed only brief visits?”
http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/1191/9111034.htm

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By cann4ing, July 5, 2007 at 11:12 pm Link to this comment

ITW, in reading your sincere post, I was reminded of Eric Fromm’s forward to George Orwell’s “1984”.

Fromm: “Books like Orwell’s are powerful warnings, and it would be most unfortunate if the reader smugly interpreted ‘1984’ as another description of Stalinist barbarism, and if he does not see that it means us, too.”

I apologize in advance for the length of this response, which will be in two parts, but I believe, after you have read it you will concur that the length was appropriate.

The notion that these jackals are too incompetent to pull off a 9/11 is, I believe, a carefully calculated canard—It is the reason why a sometimes affable baffoon, incapable of stringing two coherent sentences together, was chosen to be out front as president, while true power was placed in the hands of an Orwellian sociopath—Dick Cheney and his side-kick David Addington.

You have overestimated the effectiveness of Nazi propaganda—at least as it relates to the period prior to March 1933.  The Nazis never won a majority at the polls.  Their success was the result of skillful maneuvering behind the scenes.  The conservative ministers in Hindenberg’s government thought they could control the Nazis by making Hitler part of the cabinet, but the only position Hitler would accept was Reich Chancellor.  From there, he outmaneuvered all of them, especially after the Reichstag fire. 

Although he had been informed by the head of the non-Nazi Prussian police that the fire was the work of a lone, crazed anarchist, Hitler wouldn’t hear of it.  He said, “There will be no mercy now; anyone who stands in our way will be butchered.”

As revealed by Richard Evans in “The Coming of the Third Reich,” Hitler seized the moment to press the other ministers for a decree that suspended key articles of the Weimar constitution, “particularly those governing freedom of expression, freedom of the press, and freedom of assembly and association.  It allowed police to detain people in protective custody indefinitely and without a court order, in…contrast to previous laws…”  (Has a familiar ring, doesn’t it?  Think Patriot Act; Military Commissions Act.) 

Hitler “reminded his Conservative colleagues that the coalition had intended from the outset to destroy the Communists.  ‘The psychologically correct moment for the confrontation has now arrived.’”

Now think back to 9/11.  Within one day, Bush told us this was not merely an act of terror.  It was an act of “war.”  A short time later, Don Rumsfeld penned a NY Times op ed that stated this would be a war like no other and that we shouldn’t even think of an “exit strategy.”

You ask about the relative effectiveness of propaganda.  I can think of no more effective piece of Orwellian newspeak than the phrase “global war on terror.”

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By GodSend, July 5, 2007 at 8:46 pm Link to this comment

Another gust of hot wind from the Windbag. (you’re an agnostic, remember?) Are you related to ‘Lefty’?

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By GodSend, July 5, 2007 at 8:40 pm Link to this comment

It seems that the raving, racist, Zionist lunatic ‘Lefty’ cannot resist opening his (filthy) mouth and proceeding to insert his foot so far down, that he is beginning to resemble a 1-footed, raving, racist, Zionist lunatic. So now we see what happens to someone who’s had a lobotomy of the mind as well as the heart. You are an embarrassment to all other Zionist 10-year olds wink

Go back to Schul!

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By Inherit The Wind, July 5, 2007 at 8:34 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ernest:

You may not believe this but I agree with every word of the following:

“America is being destroyed.  Many Americans are unaware, others are indifferent, and some intend it.

“Those who rely on the Internet for information are aware that the Bush regime has successfully assaulted the separation of powers and civil liberty.  Both President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney claim that they are not bound by laws that impinge on their freedom of action or that interfere with their ideas of the power of their offices.  Bush has issued presidential directives that permit him to make himself dictator by declaring a national emergency.  Cheney asserts that his handling of secret documents is not subject to oversight or investigation or bound by a presidential order governing the protection of classified material.”

What made this statement especially powerful is that its author is not some radical leftist or even a Noam Chomsky. Roberts previously served as an assistant secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration.

In “The Great Unraveling” Paul Krugman described the hard-right as a “revolutionary power” as that term was used by Henry Kissinger in his 1957 doctoral thesis, “A World Restored.” Kissinger noted that the defenders of the status quo “fail to take at face value the assertion of the revolutionary power that it means to smash the existing framework….Those who warn against the danger in time are considered alarmists; those who counsel adaptation to circumstance are considered balanced and sane….But it is the essence of a revolutionary power that it possesses the courage of its convictions, that it is willing, indeed eager, to push its principles to their ultimate conclusion.”

I am concerned that we are on the verge of losing our Constitutional democracy; that Bush/Cheney, who potentially face years in prison or worse if the full extent of their crimes were ever revealed, have no intention of leaving office; that one has to take the declarations of a right to declare a national emergency (marshall law?  Congress closing? elections suspended?) “at face value” No doubt, in the eyes of many that makes me an “alarmist.” Nancy Pelosi counsels adaptation to the circumstance, why waste time of impeachment when there are so many other pressing matters?  Many would view her as sane.  I, for one, view the failure to directly confront this immediate threat to democracy and the rule of law as patently insane.

EVERY WORD!  I’ve been saying this for several years.  Al Gore, in “The Assault On Reason” explicitly makes the same point.

Quite frankly, as evil and devious as the Bush admin is, I think engineering the attacks on the WTC is far, far beyond their capability, and even further beyond their vision. “The Vision Thing” is even worse for Dubya than it was for Poppy.  The ONLY thing I think they are capable of is realizing that if it was discovered they were behind the WTC, NOTHING they did would allow them to retain power.

Sure, Hitler did it with the Reichstag fire.  But that was 70 years ago, when even radio was still new, and Adolph Hitler was a far better propagandist than Bush will EVER be.

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By Inherit The Wind, July 5, 2007 at 8:27 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

GodSend:

May the god and savior you believe in forgive you!

TW:
I appreciate your civility. I don’t disagree that the Zionist movement grew out of centuries of Christian anti-semitism.  It was even built into the literature—like Marlow’s “The Jew of Malta” , and Gogol’s Taras Bulba.

Why not? If you are persecuted for 1900 years, it makes sense to want a place of your own where you are accepted.  The final straw, of course was, as Tom Clancy so graphically and passionately put it “having six million of your closest relatives turned into air pollution.”

You are rational to understand: I do not agree with or accept many of the Israeli government policies!  I think the Likud bloc is a blight on that nation, their fanaticism rivaling the Iranian mullahs.  It has led to drastic mistakes—expanding settlements, putting Ariel Sharon in power instead of in jail, murdering the PM who was going to finally END the war and make peace with the Palestinians, and a disasterous, ill-conceived and badly executed foray into Lebanon.  (I still think only Bush and Cheney could have engineered such a fiasco—it has their fingerprints all over it).

But as much as your utopian dream of everybody living in peace with open borders and sharing voting—I’m sorry, it just ain’t happening there.

Look at Europe. Sure, the EU is a WONDERFUL model, but it’s taken 60 years just to get to a VERY loose confederacy.  Sure, centuries-old enemies can’t even CONCEIVE of fighting each other with anything but words.  But from 1945 to 1989, they were motivated by a bigger threat—their fear of the Soviet Union.

We look at the Euro—despite the gripes it’s a great thing—the same money works everywhere, but it took many, many years and many, many tries.  The “Snake”, an early attempt at monetary unity, failed miserably in 1976, when France withdrew under unbearable pressure to devalue the Franc and re-value the DeutschMark.

The first step to peace is to find a way to have a truce that holds, then a series of agreements nobody likes too much but everyone realizes that the other side doesn’t like much either.  It’s generations from that to Jews and Arabs living peacefully in a united nation. Generations.

Many of these bonds between individual Jew and Arab existed.  But it has been the deliberate effort of Arab extremists to rupture those bonds, to come into neigborhoods that aren’t their own and kill those who have such deep friendships.

I don’t see Arabs as fundamentally evil—I see them as SCARED, living in modern times with a religion that is dominated (now) by those who, after 1400 years, are about as brutal and evil as Christians were after 1400 years.

It took Christian Europe 1,945 years to finally look the evil of their religious fanaticism in the face—and even now it’s rising again.

You may think it’s the chicken and the egg—is Anti-Semitism fueling Zionism, or is Zionism fueling Anti-Semitism?

The answer can be found with logic.  There aren’t many Jews (less than 20 million world-wide) but there sure are a lot of Christians and Moslems—about 2.5 to 3 Billion between them, if not more.  Anti-Semitism amongst those countless millions has been around for a long, long time, and as you pointed out, brought forth the idea of a Jewish homeland, a place to be safe and live openly as Jews—Zionism.  But that action has caused even more Anti-Semitism to flare up.  So:

Should Zionism cease?

Should Zionism adapt and toss out the Likud fascists?

Or should it forge ahead as recklessly and foolishly as Benyamin Netanyahu would have it?

The first means Israel falls, and, with nowhere to go, 5.5 million Jews will be slaughtered.

The last means more and more of the world turns against Israel, making it more and more difficult to sustain, and emboldening more and more brutal attacks?

Or should it toss out the fascists, return to the more humanist ideals, and find ways to FINALLY confront and meet the challenges needed to survive?

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By cann4ing, July 5, 2007 at 8:18 pm Link to this comment

Tony, like you, I had been skeptical of claims of official complicity in 9/11, though I did feel that the “9/11 truthers” had raised significant questions that warranted an open and fair investigation.  However, after viewing a more than 2 hour video of a lecture given by Physics Professor Steven E. Jones on 2/1/06, I must admit that he makes a pretty compelling case, which suggests that Cheney was at the middle of it.  In the past, I had linked to the video at

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=964034652002408586

Recent attempts to link to it produce the word “loading” and I am not sure whether it is blocked or merely delayed as I didn’t have the patience to wait.

In light of Professor Jones’ compelling case for a possible complicity, I was somewhat alarmed to hear of recent intelligence reports of a potential attack and what sounds like the same non-response to such reports that occurred in the summer of 2001.

Recently, Paul Craig Roberts published an article in my local paper that discusses how the Bush administration is destroying this country across the board.  The full article can be linked to at

http://www.venturacountystar.com/news/2007/jul/03/world-can-kiss-city-on-the-hill-goodbye/

While the prime focus of the article is on economics, the following contains its relatively brief political comment:

“America is being destroyed.  Many Americans are unaware, others are indifferent, and some intend it.

“Those who rely on the Internet for information are aware that the Bush regime has successfully assaulted the separation of powers and civil liberty.  Both President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney claim that they are not bound by laws that impinge on their freedom of action or that interfere with their ideas of the power of their offices.  Bush has issued presidential directives that permit him to make himself dictator by declaring a national emergency.  Cheney asserts that his handling of secret documents is not subject to oversight or investigation or bound by a presidential order governing the protection of classified material.”

What made this statement especially powerful is that its author is not some radical leftist or even a Noam Chomsky. Roberts previously served as an assistant secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration.

In “The Great Unraveling” Paul Krugman described the hard-right as a “revolutionary power” as that term was used by Henry Kissinger in his 1957 doctoral thesis, “A World Restored.”  Kissinger noted that the defenders of the status quo “fail to take at face value the assertion of the revolutionary power that it means to smash the existing framework….Those who warn against the danger in time are considered alarmists; those who counsel adaptation to circumstance are considered balanced and sane….But it is the essence of a revolutionary power that it possesses the courage of its convictions, that it is willing, indeed eager, to push its principles to their ultimate conclusion.”

I am concerned that we are on the verge of losing our Constitutional democracy; that Bush/Cheney, who potentially face years in prison or worse if the full extent of their crimes were ever revealed, have no intention of leaving office; that one has to take the declarations of a right to declare a national emergency (marshall law?  Congress closing? elections suspended?) “at face value”  No doubt, in the eyes of many that makes me an “alarmist.”  Nancy Pelosi counsels adaptation to the circumstance, why waste time of impeachment when there are so many other pressing matters?  Many would view her as sane.  I, for one, view the failure to directly confront this immediate threat to democracy and the rule of law as patently insane.

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By atheo, July 5, 2007 at 7:48 pm Link to this comment

Gilad Atzmon Interview:

Mary: Is the Jewish world directly implicated in the oppression? Wouldn’t it be more direct to deal exclusively with Israel and its supporting States? We all know that sometimes the citizens of a State don’t fully support their leaders, and this is true in the West and elsewhere. Why is Israel different?

Gilad: This is indeed a set of crucial questions. The first question to be asked is what is this thing called ‘Jewish World’? Is it the world of all the living Jews? Is there such a world? Is there such a collective entity? The answer is NO, yet it is symptomatic to Jewish ethnic politicians to talk in a collective manner, whether it is in the name of the holocaust, or its victims, the sufferers. As we know, Sharon informed us after the Jenin massacre that it was done in the name of the Jews. Did he have the mandate to say it? Not really. As it seems there is a fairly organised set of Jewish bodies who are supporting the Jewish State in the name of the Jews, and we also see far less organised miniature groups who oppose Israel in the name of the Jews. These two opposing political identities teach us nothing about the Jewish world, but rather about a Jewish political tendency to talk in the name of the Jewish people. This probably is one of the manifestations of Jewish political management within a liberal democratic environment.

I wouldn’t be able to assure you that Moshe Cohen from Golders Green London is supporting the Israeli oppression, yet I can tell you categorically that Israeli oppression is conducted on behalf of Moshe Cohen. This leaves us in a very complicated situation. Now, let’s assume that Mr Cohen doesn’t agree with Israel. He can then try to react politically as a Jew, he could easily shout ‘not in MY Jewish name’, but this would mean blaming all his brothers for supporting Israel. This would indeed approve the Israeli claim for acting in the name of the Jews. The Israeli foreign minister will be able to claim after the next massacre that it was done in the name of world Jewry except Mr Cohen from Golders Green. Alternatively, Cohen can as well shout ‘not in OUR Jewish names’ but then he would be as guilty, as much as Israel is guilty, of assuming a Jewish intellectual, ethical and ideological collective. Thus, I believe that only two possibilities are left a Jew to oppose Israel politically, either to act as an ordinary human being rather than as a chosen one, or alternatively to oppose the Jewish State in the name of Jewish values and that would mean to suggest a humanist interpretation of Judaism. This is what Torah Jews manage to do to a certain success.

However, I do believe that since Israel insists upon regarding itself as the Jewish State, we are entitled to tackle it as a Jewish State. I believe that if there is a lesson to be learned from the Holocaust, it is the devastating impact of racism and political racism. We have to fight racism. As it seems there is not a single legitimate racially exclusive political movement in the West except the Jewish ones, whether we speak about Zionism or ‘Jews against Zionism’. We have to stand up against any form of a racial segregative formula.

Mary: What is modern evil?

Gilad: It is clearly Zionism and the current Zionised Anglo-Americanism colonialism.

http://peacepalestine.blogspot.com/

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By cann4ing, July 5, 2007 at 7:21 pm Link to this comment

Tony, there are a couple of issues raised by your two-part post that warrant a response.  First, like you, I have no idea who this Vinnie is.  What is clear is that there is no place within public discourse for either the “K” word or the “N” word.  The fact that it was used to smear all “Jews” with the charge of 9/11 complicity is repugnant.

That said, the presence of one anti-Semite poster does not provide justification for the ongoing Zionist propaganda that seeks to conflate all opposition to the fascist and racist characteristics of Zionism and the impact of its forty-year apartheid occupation into anti-Semitism.  Take, for example, Professor Finkelstein’s critique of “New Republic” editor Martin Peretz who raged against “‘hysterical, Israel-hating lies’ such as that Israelis ‘destroyed homes in Jenin just for the hell of it.’  Except that an Israeli bulldozer operator in Jenin afterward boasted for an Israeli newspaper:  ‘I wanted to destroy everything.  I begged the officers…to let me knock it all down….If I am sorry for anything, it is for not tearing the whole camp down….I had plenty of satisfaction.  I really enjoyed it.’  (After publication of this article, the IDF awarded the bulldozer operator a citation for outstanding service.)”

Given space considerations, I will address the issue of the hard-right’s potential complicity in another post.

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By outrider, July 5, 2007 at 5:39 pm Link to this comment

What has Israel ever done for, not to, the United States?  America’s anti-semetic taxpayers for years have been and still are pouring billions of taxpayers’ dollars into Israel. What have these tax payers received in return other than vilification, being spied upon by Israel agents, and having Israel’s agents intervening in and manipulating the internal affairs of our government and country?  The majority of those who speak publicly for the Jewish people, whether they live in Israel or the USA, say Americans, the taxpayers who have been and are Israel’s wet nurse, are ant-semetic. If they say so I guess we are. The Iraelites are never wrong.  Even know-it-all Bush has been following their commands for years. If Israel is as rich, powerful and independent as it professes to be, they should be too proud to take our money or ask for our help.  It has its own nuclear weapons.  They don’t need us and we don’t need them or their neocon agents intermeddling in our domestic and foreign affairs. Israel has invaded and occupied the United States’ government.  I think they should withdraw their “troops” now.  If they have want to argue that we should maintain the status quo, let there be a full-fledged public debate based upon all the facts, classified or otherwise.  Then we can have a referendum.

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By GodSend, July 5, 2007 at 5:34 pm Link to this comment

Hey, Windbag - the more you open your mouth, the more foul wind comes out! Do you really expect your nonsense to be taken seriously? You expel so much hot air, no wonder the glaciers are melting faster than ever! How come you didn’t make it into Al Gore’s movie! (Don’t answer that question - it’s rhetorical)

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By Tony Wicher, July 5, 2007 at 4:37 pm Link to this comment

(reply to ITW, continued from previous post)

I do see a lot of blatant anti-Semitism in the 9-ll conspiracy movement. ITW, we could probably agree that anti-Semitism is part of the world cultural atmosphere. This is a fact which I blame on the organized “Christian” religion, since these ecclesiastical rulers are the ones who have for two millenia been perpetuating the whole myth that “the Jews killed Jesus”. By the way, do you hear this, Godsend? Listen: the Christian faith preached by Jesus that I believe in and practice to the best of my ability is one of universal love and peace on earth. But this idea that “the Jews killed Jesus” is the dark side of Christianity. It is the essence of anti-Semitism. It is the evil worm corrupting the very core of Christianity. So, ITW, I think we agree that anti-Semitism has been a worldwide phenomenon for thousands of years. But you will probably not agree with me when I say that anti-Semitism and Zionism come from the same evil, that Zionism is in fact the spawn of anti-Semitism.

I do think that there is a true religious Zionism of peace that may be born born out of the collapse of the current false Zionism of endless war, and it does mean the end of Zionist separatism in favor of a religion of the unity of all humanity - which is what Christianity and Islam are both also supposed to be - but are not. The resulting Zionism would indeed be a transformation and unification of all three Abrahamic religions. This religion that embraces all mankind would be the end of an era of conflict and the beginning of a new “golden age” of human history. So far do I believe the Biblical and Koranic prophesies, and so far do I work and pray to make them come true.

Now as to Blah and Holocaust Denial: the Holocaust is an established fact. Therefore, anyone who denies it is either deliberately anti-Semitic or ignorant. I place Ahmedinejad in the latter category. On the other hand, as extensively documented by Norman Finkelstein in “the Holocaust Industry” and “Beyond Chutzpah”, Zionists have used the Holocaust as the primary justification for the moral outrages and crimes aganst humanity that they commit. So it is not hard to seen why people opposing Zionist racism might get confused. Again Zionism and anti-Semitism both cause and justify each other.

So we agree about Holocaust denial, but you will probably not agree when I tell you that Holocaust denial and Zionist Nakba denial are the same phenomenon.

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By Tony Wicher, July 5, 2007 at 4:02 pm Link to this comment

Re #83778 by Inherit The Wind on 7/03 at 9:03 pm
(Unregistered commenter)

“Told you…the virulent anti-semites are out: Vinnie, Blahblahblah and GodSend—these neo-nazis make Fadel look like a Democrat!


TW: THESE 3 are PRECISELY the foundation of my arguments against yours.  They are the same mindset as the leaders of Hamas, and for decades the leaders of Fatah.  Please tell me HOW Israel could open its doors to people who think like Vinnie, Blah and GodSend and expect NOT to be slaughtered?

Robert, even you have to see the evil in these 3.”

==================================================
ITW,

I have just returned to this thread after a two days, and I am really impressed! I would like to congratulate everyone, Zionist and non-Zionist, on a fascinating collection of posts. I would particularly like to thank the Zionists for hanging in there in the face of attacks from every angle. I disagree with you but you have contributed a lot of energy to this enriching exchange of ideas. 

You list three evil ones: Vinnie, Godsend and Blah. Let us compare our responses to these three. First Vinnie. “Kike Zionists did 9-11” is his only contribution so far. We don’t know who this Vinnie really is, but let’s assume he’s serious and believes this. He’s blaming 9-11 on the Jews, whom he calls Kikes. Now the “K” word is even worse than the “N” word. Rappers make a living saying “Nigger”, but nobody says “Kike”. However, let’s forget the bad word for a moment.  I used to believe the official story that 9-11 was caused by Al Qaeda, a militant Islamic terrorist organization headed by Osama bin Laden. I admired Osama for his strategic prowess, his political astuteness, his bravery and his forthright honesty, too. Throughout his career, he has always said what he intended to do and then proceeded to do it. I believed he was a man who could be trusted to keep his promises. I was amazed at how much he could accomplish with the resources at his disposal. Much as I oppose all terrorist acts, I could not help but see the 9-11 attack as a master stroke by a great strategist. The Bush administration did exactly what Osama expected them to do. It was like watching a grandmaster playing chess against a duffer - Osama was always ten steps ahead.

In other words, I have never been a “9-ll conspiracy theorist”. From the beginning we heard from some in the Middle East that 9-ll was a Mossad plot. I discounted those statements as typical Arab paranoid conspiracy theory.

But I must admit that in recent months my faith in this view has been shaken. Our government has been behaving so outrageously that I am beginning to give some credence to the idea of U.S. government involvement in 9-11 on some very secret level. Osama is still free as a bird. It makes you wonder, all right. The one who knows all the secrets is Cheney. Maybe there was some super-secret plot where elements in the U.S. government cooperated with bin Laden. This is possible. Cheney and bin Laden are both members of the same world-wide party - the war party. That’s what they all have in common. They all love war. Well, Zionists are also members of this party. They love war too. Israel has a huge military-industrial complex like the U.S. War means lots of blood money. War means money and power for all militant Zionists, militant Islamists and militant imperialists. If you want my idea of a lovely choir of evil ones all singing together in unholy harmony, there it is - Zionism, Islamism, imperialism. So if there was a “9-11 conspiracy”, I would expect Zionism to be involved. I do think there is plenty of evidence to re-open a public investigation into the events surrounding 9-11, and I hope this will happen soon. If we can impeach Cheney, maybe we can get to the truth of this. 

(continued next post)

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By Peter RV, July 5, 2007 at 3:54 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Mr. Censor, where is my post ( the only one I sent on this thread )?

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By Inherit The Wind, July 5, 2007 at 3:47 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Fred’s point can be distilled down to this:
If you don’t believe Israel is the freeist, most-open and safest nation in the Middle East then:

Where would you, a Christian American rather live: Israel even as f**ked up as she is now due to the Likud, or ANY of the Arab nations?

Where would you want your children educated, in Israeli public and private schools, or in the public and private schoools in ANY Arab nation?

It’s reallly as simple as that.

GodSend, I’m going to do you a favor. Since you, a non-Jew, think you have some sort of God-given “right” to define who is and who is NOT a Jew, I’ll define a Christian for YOU (I know I don’t have any right to do that but I have as much a right as you have to define Jews).  Besides, growing up in America I have known far more Christians than you have known Jews, so that qualifies me.

A TRUE Christian is someone who follows Christ’s teachings, including tolerance, forgiveness, abhorence of greed, love of peace, charity, and empathy.  Someone like Mother Teresa, or Albert Schweitzer, or even Oskar Schindler.

FALSE Christians are the usual hate-filled, heretic-hunting, hell-fire-and-damnation Elmer Gantrys.  Typical examples are Torquemada, St. Cyril (the bishop of Alexandria who burned the Great Library), Savonarola (Venice’s Bonfire of The Vanities), Ferdinand and Isabella, the popes who ordered the Crusades, the Pilgrims (who 70 years after they arrived at Plymouth Rock were hanging each other as witches), all the right-wing-nut televangelists,....and, obviously,
.
.
.
you.

You better go back and read your Bible a lot more thoroughly. Your heart is so filled with hate in general, and for anyone who isn’t just like you in particular that you can’t be a true follower of Christ, even as your religion defines him. 

You have too much work to do on your own flaws and sins before you dare to lecture to others about theirs!

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By atheo, July 5, 2007 at 3:11 pm Link to this comment

Fred

Which boundaries exist in this “legal” state that you believe Hamas must accept? How would you recommend accepting a “state” that does not recognize the nation that is to accept them. Are you serious ot are you just full of B.S.?

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By moderateinmoderation, July 5, 2007 at 3:02 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This article makes me question the seriousness of Truthdig.  It’s inflammatory and little else.  If our democracy is so sick that some campaign money can cause 100’s of senators and representatives to throw our nation’s fate to the wind, then is Israel really the problem?  How exactly was Colin Powell ‘slapped down’ by AIPAC etc?  On the face of it, it’s hard to believe that a nation of a few million is controlling a very rich and powerful one of 300 million, and no real details are given to explain or support this assertion.  Are the Israelis so foolish to believe that what’s happening (or what the US is doing) in the Mid-East is in their interest, when most Americans can see it’s clearly not?  I think the editors of Truthdig should apologize for this article, whatever the actual facts may be.  If you like, find a writer who can take essentially the same premise and give a rational, well-supported and most importantly incisive (as opposed to purely sensationalistic) exposition.  This is heat without light, the exact opposite of what the world needs…

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By fred lapides, July 5, 2007 at 2:42 pm Link to this comment
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It is true that Israe is the worst state in the Middle East—except for all the others. It is the one state that is a democracy. The UN allowed two states to be created from the British Mandate. There was no state called “Palestine.” Israel got created. The arabs then choose to destroy Israel and failed. Now it is also true as the article points out that the US gives a lot of aid to Israel. And second most money? Egypt. And it gives money and suports many countries but this piece must focus only on isrel. Why? If you read the Israel blogs and papers you will see how often israelis have felt that the US was not always ac ting in their best interests, yet Hedges implies that the US does the bidding of Israel. Not so.

When I see Fatah and Hamas killing each other; and trained physicians in England turning against their country; when I see rabid jihadist Imans mouthing off their hate, then i know that I much prefer the benign policies of Israel. Sure, there is much to be critical of: the settlements, for example, but then why not negotiate a settlement, end the occupation and establish a state for the Palestinians? Is that asking too much? Yes: says the Hamas leadership: better our people suffer endlessly than we should accept a state that is legally in existence for the past 50 years.

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By GodSend, July 5, 2007 at 2:10 pm Link to this comment

authoralan:

Thanks for your post and clarification re. length of your book. I’m certain that it is well written, easy to read and very beneficial to understanding what is, perhaps, the greatest issue of our time - maybe all time! We’ll SEE about that and soon, I think.

While edification of the general (reading) public is very worthwhile, I have some doubts that even a well-informed (voting) public can effect significant change regarding Zionist (Lobby) influence in American government. Remember that Zionists play a key role in deciding who the candidates are for higher political office! Manipulating election results is almost immaterial in that situation. The fact is that the Zionist Lobby has achieved an almost complete stranglehold on all major entities of American society, with the effective control of the MSM their long-time (and long-term) objective. That goes back a long way (to pre-WWI Germany) and is the baseline of their NWO strategy. The pro-Zionist Murdoch is the leading example in this domain.

I agree with you that Jewry MUST assert their more enlightened and traditional Jewish role in opposing Zionism and assuming their legitimate right in leading humanity away from the edge of the abyss. Let’s pray that God will show them their leaders who are willing and able to tackle this herculean task - and that He will empower them to succeed! I think that’s what Neturei Karta Jews and all true Torah Jews yearn for.

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By GodSend, July 5, 2007 at 1:45 pm Link to this comment

‘Lefty’ has demonstrated, beyond any reasonable doubt and repeatedly, that he is a raving, racist Zionist lunatic (that’s typical, of course, but not usually so obvious). Not sure yet which insane asylum he escaped from - or if they have Internet access in the nuthouse from where he’s posting! Perhaps he’s just an example of a successful lobotomy wink May have been a perfectly normal human before the Mossad decided they could use him to spread Zionist hatred and malign all Muslims. Just imagine the agony that his mother must endure daily, knowing that her son is a disgrace to humanity. May God have mercy on his wretched soul!

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By authoralan, July 5, 2007 at 1:13 pm Link to this comment

Godsend:

I appreciate your comments.

At the risk of seeming to be defensive (when I’m not)about the length of my two-volume book ZIONISM: THE REAL ENEMY OF THE JEWS (actually the two volumes total 988 pages of text, photographs and maps, not 1,200), I’d like to offer a brief explanation of it, the length.

The bottom-line political reality to be faced can, I think, be summarised as follows.

Governments (the one in Washington DC is the only one that really matters) are never, ever going to use the leverage they have to call and hold the Zionist state to account for its crimes unless… Unless they are PUSHED to do by informed public opinion, by, in other words, a manifestation of real democracy in action.

THE problem throughout the mainly Gentile Judeo-Christian world, and America most of all, is that the citizens of nations, the voters, are, generally speaking, TOO UNINFFORMED TO DO THE PUSHING. In other words, they are too ignorant of the facts and documented truth of history to make democracy work for justice and peace in the Middle East.

In fact citizens are not only underinformed, they are mis-informed because of the mainstream media’s complicity in Zionism’s suppression of the truth of history. The main cause of this complicity is fear of offending Zionism either too much or at all. (Which is why my book will never be reviewed by the mainstream media).

ZIONISM: THE REAL ENEMY OF THE JEWS is my contribution to empowering citizens of all faiths and none to make democracy work.

The book is actually a re-writing of the whole history of the making and sustaining of the Arab-Israeli conflict, replacing the Zionist mythology upon which the first and still existing draft of Judeo-Christian history is constructed with the facts and documented truth. And to enable so-called ordinary people everywhere to make sense of it all,  I’ve given events in the Middle East GLOBAL context, which is why what happened behind closed doors in London, Paris, Washington and Moscow has its place in the book. Which it turn is why it is two volumes.

My mission was to writea book that would enable citizens who know little or nothing worth knowing about the making and sustaining of the conflict, (which frankly is most citizens in most nations), to see how all the pieces of the most complicated and complex jig-saw puzzle fit together.

And though I say it myself (others have said it for me) my book is a very easy read. It’s written in my tv reporting (talking) style and in plain, sometimes earthy, everyday language. At a point, and for example, I write, “In effect, Ben-Gurion was telling President Eisenhower to get stuffed.”

I say in the Acknowledgments to Volume One that I am aware the book requires reading time and therefore effort. But I also say that I believe the reward for that effort will be understanding, perhaps for the first time ever, of what can be done and by whom to stop the countdown to catastrophe for all.

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By Robert, July 5, 2007 at 1:05 pm Link to this comment

(continued from previous comments)

Uranium Skies: What Was Aboard Flight 1862?

by Gar Smith

Plane crash in Holland exposes a global health threat

Within minutes of clearing the runway at Amsterdam’s Schi-phol airport at 6:25 PM, October 4, 1992, El Al flight LY1862 was in trouble. Engine #3 was not only on fire, it had broken free of the wing and taken engine #4 along with it. Ten minutes later, Captain Yitzhak Fuchs radioed his last message: “Going down, going down.”

The 400-ton Boeing 747-200 careened into a block of 12-story tenements in Bijl-mer, on the outskirts of Amsterdam, killing all three crew, an unidentified “nonrevenue passenger,” and at least 43 people on the ground. The exact number of deaths remains unknown, since many of the incinerated victims were undocumented immigrants.

HAZMAT ON THE HORIZON:

“Seven years after the deadly crash, Robert Jan van den Berg of the Laka Foundation’s Bijlmer Project informs the Journal that “El Al is still flying the same routes.” Despite calls for greater controls, the public still has little idea of what kinds of cargoes are passing overhead - a matter of mounting concern since the Geneva-based International Air Transport Association (IATA) expects air freight shipments to increase “at an average rate of 5.3 percent per annum between 1998-2002.” Air cargo loads are expected to increase 5.7 percent in North America and 7.9 percent in Central America - nearly double the anticipated traffic in Europe’s busy air corridors.

Because regulations for carrying hazardous materials (“hazmat”) are more stringent for passenger jets, dangerous goods increasingly are being shipped via less-regulated air-cargo jets. Currently, the only source of information on a plane’s cargo is the pilot notification (NOTOC) form carried aboard the plane but, as Air Cargo World magazine observes, this is “hardly the best spot for details while the plane itself may be burning.”

The National Transport Safety Bureau (NTSB) recommended that carriers “provide consolidated, specific information about the identity” of hazardous cargo “within two years.” In the meantime, the NTSB admits that even these regulations won’t address the greatest risk in the $143 billion-a-year air-cargo industry - the shipment of “hidden” cargo.

“Transportation of undeclared hazardous materials on airplanes remains a significant problem,” the NTSB warns. According to the IATA, nearly 26 million tons of air cargo were shipped in 1997. While hazardous materials comprised a significant portion of that cargo, no one knows how much “hidden” hazmat the world’s air freighters carry.

For many carriers, keeping the wraps on one’s cargo is tantamount to a First Amendment right. Air Cargo World notes that FedEx opposes reporting “undeclared” goods because “questions about shipment contents will infringe on customers’ privacy rights and place an unreasonable burden on carriers.” (The undeclared goods aboard a FedEx DC-10 that crashed in New York in 1996 included several bags of marijuana.)

The IATA has established global rules for the air shipment of dangerous goods but, until recently, compliance with these regulations has been voluntary. In 1998, compliance was made mandatory but the US Department of Transportation has created a loophole that allows carriers to receive an exemption from the IATA’s safety rules.

With more hazmat traversing the skies, it’s only a matter of time before another Bijlmer crash occurs. And, statistically, the next crash most likely will occur in the heavily-trafficked corridors of Europe, Central America or the US.”

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By Robert, July 5, 2007 at 12:23 pm Link to this comment

(continued from previous comments)

Uranium Skies: What Was Aboard Flight 1862?

by Gar Smith

Plane crash in Holland exposes a global health threat
—————————————————————————
Not-so-Depleted Uranium

“In the months following the crash, the Dutch citizens’ group Onderzoeksgrep Vliegramp Bijlmermeer revealed that, “in addition to the cocktail of toxic chemicals that came free during the disaster,” traces of uranium, zirconium and lanthanum had turned up in soil samples taken from the crash site. More alarmingly, the OVB found traces of uranium in feces samples taken from survivors.

One year after the crash, the Laka Foundation, an independent Dutch nuclear research group, revealed that the El Al jet - like all Boeing 747s - carried 1,500 kg of depleted uranium (DU) onboard in the form of cadmium-clad counterweights hidden in the aircraft’s tail fins, horizontal stabilizers and wings.

Depleted uranium is an extremely dense metallic by-product of the production of U235, the fissionable uranium isotope used to manufacture nuclear weapons and fuel. Despite its name, DU contains residual amounts of radioactive U235, along with less radioactive U238 and trace amounts of U236.

The journal of the American Society for Metals explains that DU counterweights “are used in the aerodynamic controls of planes, rockets and helicopters to maintain the aircraft’s center of gravity… in many civil and military aircraft.”

“For many years,” reads a December 20, 1984 Boeing documentuncovered by Dutch investigators, “aircraft manufacturers have used ‘depleted’ uranium to balance ailerons, rudders, and elevators on certain jet aircraft and rotor blades on certain helicopters.”

The documentacknowledges that swallowing or breathing DU dust can cause “a significant and long-lasting irradiation of internal tissue.” DU has been implicated as a cause of Gulf War Symptom - a series of physical and mental debilities remarkably similar to the symptoms reported by the Bijlmer survivors.

DU counterweights are manufactured by Nuclear Metals, Inc. Nuclear Metals (which became the Starmet Corporation in 1997) claims to be “one of the leading suppliers of low-cost DU ammunition for US government weapons systems” and boasts that it maintains “the only FAA approved facility for the repair and refurbishing of DU aircraft counterweights.” (Starmet’s facility in West Concord, Pennsylvania is a toxic superfund site involved in a $6.5 million effort to remove 28 years worth of radioactive sludge containing 175 tons of DU.)

While DU does not burn readily, Starmet admits that its wing and tail-fin counterweights could “oxidize rapidly in a long-lasting fire” at temperatures above 500 C.

Batelle Laboratory experiments have shown that DU begins to oxidize at temperatures as low as 350 C. Above temperatures of 700 C, DU begins to burn on its own. Batelle estimated that an hour-long fire could vaporize from 4 to 20 percent of the DU and that, with the kind of “heavy turbulence” associated with larger fires, incineration losses could reach 30 percent. The kerosene-fueled inferno at Bijlmer reached temperatures around 1100-1400 C.

In an article in Nature, physicist Robert L. Parker estimated that a worst-case 747 crash could expose 250,000 people to health risks from inhaling uranium oxide particles.

When a long-awaited Dutch government report assured the public that the counterweights had remained intact and never posed a threat to health, the Laka Foundation went public with its findings that only 163 kg of the 430 kg of depleted uranium aboard the downed 747 had been recovered. Laka’s stunning disclosure helped to trigger the demand for a full Dutch Parliamentary inquiry.”

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By Peter RV, July 5, 2007 at 11:39 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The responses to Chris Hedges’ magnificent article have been gratifying, some of them, I consider brilliant, but they were mostly in the direction of countering the rubbish coming from our usual squad of AIPAC Screaming Eagles (Lefty,Mmzamer, ITW) who seem to be losing their minds over denying everything what everybody knows to be true.
But this article of Chris Hedges’ is more than a simple opinion. It is nothing short of being a call for an uprising against a hated Zionist Occupier of our government - a clear challange to Americans to demand their independence from Israel.
His point is that our independence is long overdue and that some sort of ‘Intifada’ is needed now before our ship hits the rocks, towards which it is inexorably heading.
We are losing our time answering the people whose minds have been ravaged by ‘carpet bombings’ of some
Israeli rabbi. There is a mental devastation there comparable, shall we say, to our ‘shock and awe’ effect on Baghdad.
The problem isn’t in Israel, bestial as it is, it is in the Israeli occupied Washington. The HeadQuarter of our (and Israel’s) rot is right here.
We have no Government, we only have AIPAC stooges.
One can’t help thinking that our Government has had a brain transplant - acts like Frankenstein’ Monster.

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By GodSend, July 5, 2007 at 11:37 am Link to this comment

The Zionist strategy for a ‘Clash of Civilizations’ (read: attack Muslims) is a ruse and typical ‘false-flag’ operation (part of the phony ‘War on Terror’) which is destined to exposure and failure.

You can fool all of the people some of the time and you can fool some of the people all of the time - but the Zionists can’t fool world opinion any longer!

Alan Hart is right: The world needs more ‘Jews against Zionism’ to protect Jewry from the threatening holocaust! (and to protect the world from the devilish NWO)

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By lilmamzer, July 5, 2007 at 11:12 am Link to this comment

from The Telegraph (UK):
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/05/nterror405.xml

45 Muslim Doctors Planned US Terror Raids
By John Steele, Crime Correspondent 05/07/2007

A group of 45 Muslim doctors threatened to use car bombs and rocket grenades in terrorist attacks in the United States during discussions on an extremist internet chat site.

Police found details of the discussions on a site run by one of a three-strong “cyber-terrorist” gang.

They were discovered at the home of Younis Tsouli, 23, Woolwich Crown Court in south-east London heard.

One message read: “We are 45 doctors and we are determined to undertake jihad and take the battle inside America.

“The first target which will be penetrated by nine brothers is the naval base which gives shelter to the ship Kennedy.” This is thought to have been a reference to the USS John F Kennedy, which is often at Mayport Naval Base in Jacksonville, Florida.

They had close links with al-Qa’eda in Iraq and believed they had to fight jihad against a global conspiracy by kuffars, or non-believers, to wipe out Islam.

The three are the first defendants in Britain to be convicted of inciting terrorist murder on the internet. They waged cyber-jihad on websites run from their bedrooms.

Tsouli promoted the ideology of Osama bin Laden via email and radical websites. He said in one message he was “very happy” about the July 7 bombings in London in 2005.

Tsouli, along with Tariq Daour, a biochemistry student, and Waseem Mughal, a law student, were intelligent, computer-literate men who promoted violent propaganda.

They created chat forums to direct willing fighters to Iraq and discuss murderous bomb attacks around the world. Films of hostages and beheadings were found by police.

Daour, 21, of Bayswater, west London, who was born in the United Arab Emirates, yesterday admitted inciting another person to commit an act of terrorism wholly or partly outside Britain. Moroccan-born Tsouli, 23, of Shepherd’s Bush, west London, and British-born Mughal, 24, of Chatham, Kent, admitted the same charge on Monday.

They are due to be sentenced today. They also admitted conspiring together and with others to defraud banks, credit card companies and charge card companies. Daour had instructions for making explosives and poisons, the court was told. Police found instructions on causing an explosion with “rocket propellant’’ and constructing a car bomb.

In one on-line conversation, Daour, asked what he would do with £1 million, replied: “Sponsor terrorist attacks, become the new Osama.”

The three men outwardly appeared to be leading normal lives, studying and living with their parents. Tsouli had come to the UK with his family from Morocco in 2001.

Mughal had a degree in biochemistry from Leicester University and was studying for his masters.

Daour, who was granted British citizenship in May 2005, had applied to start a law degree.
========================
Islamic terrorism is driven by an ideology of hatred, not poverty, economic distress, or despair.

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By GodSend, July 5, 2007 at 10:23 am Link to this comment

What we can expect from Israel, Zionists and the Mossad is 24/7 DECEPTION! It’s the Mossad motto. It holds true wherever they operate - America, the Netherlands, the UK, Germany, Canada - the entire world. And what will the Zionist-controlled MSM report? Whatever they like!

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By Robert, July 5, 2007 at 9:57 am Link to this comment

(from previous post)
Uranium Skies:What Was Aboard Flight 1862?

Plane crash in Holland exposes a global health threat

“The committee discovered that every Sunday evening a mysterious El Al cargo flight routinely touched down at Schiphol en route from New York to Tel Aviv. These flights were never displayed on the airport arrival monitors and the documentation for the flights was processed in a special, unmarked room. Unlike other Israel-bound flights, the cargo on these flights was not subjected to tests in a buried vacuum bunker (designed to trigger bombs set to explode at high altitudes).

On January 29, 1999, Dutch Attorney General Vrakking testified that the El Al security detachment at Schiphol was a branch of Mossad.

On February 5, a Dutch Air Guidance Organization employee told the hearing that the “policy” since 1973 was to keep quiet about all El Al activities. Schiphol workers testified that El Al planes were never inspected by customs or the Dutch Flight Safety Board.

Two technical maintenance officers told the committee that their supervisors sometimes ordered them to clear El Al flights for take-off when they were not comfortable that it was safe to do so. They testified that the 25-page maintenance sheet for Flight 1862 was filled with numerous “carry-over items” that had not been corrected.

The Dutch press reported that security officials had been waving Israeli air cargo through Schiphol since the 1950s. While shipping the kinds of chemicals aboard LY1862 ordinarily would be a violation of the Chemical Weapons Treaty (which the US has signed), sending cargo jets to commercial airfields for refueling (rather than to a NATO airfield) apparently circumvents the Atlantic Alliance’s military treaties.

“Schiphol has become a hub for secret weapons transfers,” charged Henk van der Belt, an investigator working on behalf of the Bijlmer survivors. “Dutch authorities have no jurisdiction over Israeli activities at the airport.”

A Televisieproduktie Amsterdam (TVA) report identified Schiphol as one of several European airports that allows El Al to transfer cargo without supervision. TVA claimed that Belgian politicians now fear that “a disaster like the crash in Holland in 1992 is possible at [Belgium’s] Zaaventem. This airport is, like Schiphol, under control by the secret police of Israel.”’

Secret Tapes Show Cover-Up
In February, the Meijer committee uncovered secret tapes of phone conversations between El Al and Schiphol Air Traffic Control (SATC). On these tapes (recorded within minutes of the crash and hidden in a safe for more than six years), an El Al employee warns: “There is poison on board: ammunition and flammable liquids.” In reply, SATC personnel are heard promising: “We will keep these things under the lid.”

The lid remained sealed as Dutch authorities ordered workers to clean up the contaminated area without benefit of protective clothing. The cover-up was so complete that even the Netherlands’ Queen Beatrix was not informed of the danger. Unaware of the risks, she was allowed to undertake a “sympathy visit” to the impact site the day after the crash.

For six years, Dutch officials had claimed that the flight carried only “video-record-ers, flowers and perfume.” Shortly after the hidden tapes surfaced, Prime Minister Wim Kok suspended three SATC employees for withholding information and several ministers were threatened with firing. On, February 18, Israel finally agreed to hand over top-secret information on the 20 tons of “missing” cargo aboard the El Al jet. (Ironically, only one week earlier, Israel authorities had told Dutch investigators that “the papers are probably destroyed.”)
The Meijer report also blasted Israel’s cover-up as “incomprehensible,” especially “given the public concern in the Netherlands over the past six-and-a-half years, the requests for cooperation at a high diplomatic level and the bond of friendship between the Netherlands and Israel.”

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By GodSend, July 5, 2007 at 9:54 am Link to this comment

authoralan:

I visited the website for your book and read your interview. I don’t doubt that your motive for writing your book is to promote peace and to save Jewry from another (worse) holocaust. In that regard, it is a commendable effort and obviously also a momentous effort!

Frankly, very few people will have the energy or time to read through 1,200 pages these days, no matter how interesting or accurate or important the material. Also, the ground on this topic is shifting almost daily and things are not going in the desired direction - positions are becoming polarized. A sequel (summary and update) of modest size would be VERY desirable and I would buy a copy because I think you have correctly identified most of the essentials of this dilemma facing us all.

I’m not sure if you have addressed the spiritual and scriptural components of this great issue in your book. The history of the Chosen People is filled with rebellion against their God and now, a small number of heretics (Zionists) have seized control of Judaism (or so it seems) as well as America (and Germany) and are determined to create their NWO in defiance against Yahweh or any other god. I’m afraid that your well-meant effort is already beyond the realm of realization and that scriptural prophecy will be fulfilled. It’s a good fight, though, and many innocent Jews (as well as goy) could be saved from the Evil wrought by Zionism. Maybe we (mankind) can’t do it but with God, all things are possible. May it be so!

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By Robert, July 5, 2007 at 9:43 am Link to this comment

Uranium Skies: What Was Aboard Flight 1862?

by Gar Smith

Plane crash in Holland exposes a global health threat

“Within minutes of clearing the runway at Amsterdam’s Schi-phol airport at 6:25 PM, October 4, 1992, El Al flight LY1862 was in trouble. Engine #3 was not only on fire, it had broken free of the wing and taken engine #4 along with it. Ten minutes later, Captain Yitzhak Fuchs radioed his last message: “Going down, going down.”

The 400-ton Boeing 747-200 careened into a block of 12-story tenements in Bijl-mer, on the outskirts of Amsterdam, killing all three crew, an unidentified “nonrevenue passenger,” and at least 43 people on the ground. The exact number of deaths remains unknown, since many of the incinerated victims were undocumented immigrants.

Seán MacCárthaigh, an Irish Times reporter who arrived shortly after the crash, described the scene: “The El Al plane had scythed through the top five stories of two buildings; about 40 flats took a direct hit. Then a huge fireball rolled through the complex and apartment after apartment popped into flames…. A giant cloud of choking white smoke engulfed the area.”

Seven years later, the exact chemical composition of that choking white cloud remains a mystery. Since the crash, 850 Bijlmer survivors - residents, police and rescue workers - have sought treatment for a host of maladies including fatigue, breathing problems, hair loss, neurological ailments, mental confusion, depression, encephalomyelitis and disabling joint pains. They ascribe their ills to the crash.

As rescue crews rushed to the crash scene that night, El Al, Israeli and Dutch officials rushed to assure the public that the doomed flight carried nothing but “perfume and gift articles.” El Al insisted that the plane carried “a regular commercial load.” As late as April 22, 1998, Israeli Transport Minister Shaul Yahalom maintained that there were “no dangerous material on that plane. Israel has nothing to hide.”

The denials collapsed on October 4, 1998, when the Dutch daily NRC Handelsblad printed a leaked copy of a page from the plane’s cargo manifest. According to the previously secret freight document, Flight 1862 was hauling 10 tons of chemicals, including hydrofluoric acid, isopro-panol and dimethyl methylphosphonate (DMMP) - three of the four chemicals used in the production of sarin nerve gas.”

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By GodSend, July 5, 2007 at 8:23 am Link to this comment

authoralan:

I haven’t heard of your book “ZIONISM: THE REAL ENEMY OF THE JEWS” before but it sounds very on-target.

Jews have contributed mightily to civilization and human spirituality and it is a terrible deception by worshipers in the “Synagogue of Satan” (Zionists) to steal the mantle of authentic Jews. If Jews can successfully separate themselves in the public mind from Zionists, then there is hope that they can also deal successfully with the problem they have in recognizing their Messiah! Messianic Jews are well positioned to lead both of these efforts! God give them strength and guidance and wisdom!

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By Robert, July 5, 2007 at 8:08 am Link to this comment

(Continued from previous comment)

Top Ten Reasons
to Oppose U.S. aid to Israel
Global Exchange



US diplomats like to say that when it comes to the Palestinian-Israeli peace process the US plays the role of ‘an honest broker. “But the US’s massive foreign aid payments to Israel mean that, in fact, the US is taking sides. Israel is the largest recipient of US foreign aid in the world, receiving more than $6 billion annually-or about $8 million every-day. Until the US stops lending its weight to Israel through biased and unfair support, a truly just peace will remain elusive.

6) The US Uses Palestine as a Military Test Ground

The US relies on Israel to test out new military technologies in battle conditions. For example, cluster bombs have been used in southern Lebanon and ammunition containing depleted uranium has been fired against civilian populations in Palestine. Israel has cooperated with the US arms industry on research and development for new jet fighters, anti-missile defense systems, and even the Strategic Defense Initiative, or the resurrected “Sear Wars” program.

7) Israeli Abuses Normalize Human Rights Violations

The US’s failure to hold Israeli human rights abusers accountable for their actions by, at the very least, ending aid to the country is setting a dangerous precedent for other human rights violator around the world. Every night news broadcasts around the world show the routine abuses committed by Israeli security forces. The US often criticizes other nations for poor human rights records, and yet Israel is rarely included in such criticism. The US’s support for the Israel in the face of these much-publicized crimes completely discredits the US’s claim to be “an honest broker of peace” and contributes to the instability of US-Middle East relations.

8) US Aid to Israel Harms Israelis

For every dollar the US sends to the Israeli military, Israeli taxpayers end up spending two to three extra dollars supporting their military. By strengthening the Israeli military establishment, US aid to Israel makes it even harder for progressive Israelis to create a civil society committed t-o a just peace in the region. Israel has one of the most powerful military’s in the world, with a large portion of the country’s budget allocated for the military. The country’s massive military expenditures, promoted in part by the US, mean that less money is spent on social programs. The increasing US aid to Israel only serves to cement Israeli dependence on the US and turns the country into a militarized “client state.”

9) Israel Trains Other Undemocratic, Abusive Regimes

For years, Israeli military expertise has been shared with other abusive undemocratic regimes across the globe. In the 1980s, Israeli security forces trained a Honduran military intelligence unit, Battalion 316, that disappeared, tortured and killed Honduran citizens. Israel also trained members of the South African apartheid regime’s Inkatha hit squads that targeted ANC leaders. US aid to Israel, then, has led to the support of regimes that US taxpayers perhaps would not have otherwise aided.

10) US Aid to Israel Could Be Better Spent

One-third of the US’s entire foreign aid budget goes to support Israel. This is seven times more money than the US gives to all of sub-Saharan Africa. Dozens of poor countries could use this money better than Israel, which doesn’t need this support: the country has more nuclear weapons than China or France, and the Israeli economy is booming thanks its high tech industry. US aid to Israel funds a brutal military responsible for regular human rights abuses, the occupation of Palestine, and the expansion of illegal settlements. If there is to be a chance for a just peace in the Middle East, unconditional US support to Israel must end.

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By Robert, July 5, 2007 at 8:04 am Link to this comment

Top Ten Reasons
to Oppose U.S. aid to Israel
Global Exchange

US diplomats like to say that when it comes to the Palestinian-Israeli peace process the US plays the role of ‘an honest broker. “But the US’s massive foreign aid payments to Israel mean that, in fact,
the US is taking sides. Israel is the largest recipient of US foreign aid in the world, receiving more than $6 billion annually-or about $8 million every-day. Until the US stops lending its weight to Israel through biased and unfair support, a truly just peace will remain elusive.

1) Israel Systematically Violates the Human Rights of

Palestinians in the Occupied Territories
Every day, Israeli security forces in the West Bank and Gaza violate articles of the 4’h Geneva Convention on Human Rights, an agreement that governs wartime rules of engagement and to which Israel is a member. Palestinian homes and agriculture fields are routinely demolished to make way for illegal Israeli settlements. Israeli soldiers also regularly arrest and detain-often for years-Palestinians without due process. According to Amnesty International, Israel is the only country in the world that legalizes torture.

2) US Aid Violates US Law

Laws passed by Congress prohibit the president from furnishing military aid or selling weapons to any country that consistently violates internationally recognized human rights standards or uses those weapons in an offensive-rather than a defensive-manner. The US State Department says that Israel engages in “torture or cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment of punishment, prolonged detention without charges and trial, causing the disappearance of persons by the abduction and clandestine detention of those persons, and other flagrant denials of the right to life, liberty, or the security of people.” Weapons purchased from the US by Israel are regularly used against unarmed Palestinian civilian populations.

3) Israel is an Exclusionary State

The Israeli Law of Return allows Jews from all over the world to immigrate to Israel and gain citizenship there, but Palestinian refugees who were forced to flee their homes in 1948 and 1967 are excluded from returning to their homes and towns of origin. Even Palestinian citizens of Israel-who make up 20 percent of all Israeli citizens-are third-class citizens, and are not given many of the same rights as Israeli Jewish citizens. Israel’s official policy of discriminating against non-Jewish citizens makes the country a kind of “trickle down democracy,” and not one the US should be supporting.

4) Israel Is Illegally Occupying Palestine

The United Nation’s General Assembly has repeatedly condemned the Israel settlements in the Occupied Territories as illegal. Palestinians in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank are forced to live in apartheid conditions, and the Israeli settlements built on confiscated land separate the Palestinians from each other, making for isolated Palestinian Bantustans surrounded by Jewish-only neighborhoods. By carving up the Occupied Territories in this way, the rapid construction of Israeli settlements has prevented the creation of a viable Palestinian state. Israel’s continued occupation of Palestine, sanctioned and maintained by the US, is one of the most serious obstructions to a just and lasting peace in the Middle East.

5) US Foreign Aid to Israel Maintains the

Military-lndustrial Complex Here in the US
The US requires Israel to use 75 percent of all the military aid it receives to buy US-made arms. Consequently, every year billions of dollars are funneled from US taxpayers to hundreds of arms corporations, who then wage lobbying campaigns pushing for even more foreign military aid. The results of this policy are twofold: it not only diverts much needed funding from domestic education and social programs, but it makes US citizens complicit in the abuses committed by the Israeli army.

(continued in next comment)

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By ender, July 5, 2007 at 7:18 am Link to this comment

Part 2

So, Christians begin loosing ground to Islam and begin the Crusades and the Inquisition.  Islam gets pissed and begins taking parts of Europe in order give the Infidels a chance to convert.  That only gets so far as the Shia/Sunni/Persian/Arabic infighting keep them too occupied with each other to maintain their triumphs over the Christians.

It ain’t over yet folks.

Men create religions to consolidate tribal power and control other tribes of men. 

It is about greed, power and racism driven by powerful men that use religions that support the powerful, subjugate the poor, maintain the status quo through wars and upheaval, and keep humanity from imagining it can ever be any different.

And here we stand after 2000 yrs. still hostage to the same tribal warfare and cultural warfare that appeals to the most ancient human instincts for aggression, disuised as a battle between religions that SUPPOSEDLY BELIEVE IN THE SAME GOD!

WHAT THE WORLD NEEDS IS SAVLATION- FROM RELIGION!

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By ender, July 5, 2007 at 7:16 am Link to this comment

History of Abrahamic Religion101.

A/Ibrahim(not his name yet) was a priest of the Sumerian deity EL.  His tribe was small and had maintained a separate culture from many of the other followers of the Sumerian Trinity of Gods, so as a tribal leader, he declared a revel elation from El(as in Israel -chosen of God, and Daniel - beloved of God) that the tribe could take no other God before HIM, El, and by the way, never say or writeMY NAME again, except in a code understood only by the priesthood, so we can forget about that whole EL/Triumvirate thing.  Abraham was a capable leader and warlord, and his tribe prospered. The priesthood he founded included much of the Sumerian religions myths of creation and the flood into their repertoire and maintained their ‘secret’ knowledge of the Sumerian calendar and astrological systems to keep themselves in position of power. They taught their tribe cultural racism and apartheid, but allowed enslaved and captured women to bare legitimate children, to avoid the inbreeding that even prehistoric humans knew, led to birth defects.  So….slavery was ok, but not of your close neighbors, because that might defeat the purpose – diversity of the gene pool.

This tribe maintained its genetic and cultural uniqueness very successfully.  The shared religion allowed leaders to exhort them to martial ferocity, when wronged, or to take some other tribes property and land.  Remember the time they were supposed to kill every living thing in Canaan and make the land theirs?  It took uncommon will, devotion, and brutality for such a small tribe to conquer a larger more technologically advanced civilization such as the Canaanites.  This cultural bigotry served them well for over a thousand years.  It also made them a universally hated tribe.

So, after they have been defeated and displaced several times, and finally completely conquered by the Romans, a group of radical Jewish rabbis,  Zoroastrian priest, and Roman Freethinkers, used the local stories about a Jewish Rabbi/carpenter, embellished them borrowing heavily from the messianic traditions of Judaism which were stolen from the Sumerian religion, created the Christ myth.  It took them quite a while, and they didn’t get around to recording all of this until decades after the events supposedly had taken place.  But…it is much easier to make up events after the fact, when the people who were there/then aren’t around to dispute the ‘facts.’ 

A few hundred years after that, a learned merchant that lives a life of leisure due to marrying a much older but wealthy widow, studies the Jewish religion, and realizes its real problem is its exclusivity.  So he copies large parts of it, and creates a religion that invites everyone to join.  In fact it often insists.  He keeps the most holy spot in his homeland though, and discourages translations from the Arabic, so his tribe maintains Top Dog First of the First status.  The End of Time myth involves a leader, or Great Caliph, that can really only come from his tribe.  So, in typical tribal fashion, members of the other powerful and rival tribe in the region, the Persians, claim the Arabic descendants have gotten it wrong, and they are the true carriers of the flame.

Part 1

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By Inherit The Wind, July 5, 2007 at 4:59 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I say this not to score a cheap point. I don’t have time for such games (as you obviously do).

Good. That saves me time and keystrokes responding to your obvious nonsense.

Frank Burns: Why do people seem to take an instant dislike to me?

Trapper John: It saves time, Frank.

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By authoralan, July 5, 2007 at 2:56 am Link to this comment

Message to unregistered commenter Inherit The Wind with reference to your response to me posted at 11.10am on 7/04, #83977.

In my book ZIONISM: THE REAL ENEMY OF THE JEWS I describe Zionism as a product of the evil of others and, in that context, “a sickness of traumatised Jewish minds” (and I ask - Who can cure this sickness?)

Your response to me, and to others, suggests that you are a prime example of this sickness and are far beyond reason. Put another way, you’ve been brainwashed.

I say this not to score a cheap point. I don’t have time for such games (as you obviously do).

Many years ago I asked (then) retired Major General Shlomo Gazit a most explicit question. (He was for 20 years the Head of Research at Israel’s Directorate of Military Intelligence. In 1973, after the war, he was prevailed upon by government to become the Director, with a brief to reorganise the service so there could never again be an intelligence failure as there was in the countdowsn to that war).

Question: “Would you object to the statement that the name of the game is helping the Jews to save themselves from themselves?”

Answer: “No, I would not object.”

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By Alan Hart, July 5, 2007 at 2:31 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Message to unregistered commenter Inherent The Wind with reference to his posting at 11.10am.

In my book ZIONISM: THE REAL ENEMY OF THE JEWS, I describe Zionism as “a sickness of traumatised Jewish minds” (and I ask - “Who can cure this sickness?”). Your response to me, and to others, suggests that you are a prime example of the sickness.

I’m not saying this to score a cheap point. I don’t have time for such games (as you obviously do). My point is only that the sickness is real and that unless a cure for it can be found, Zionism may take us all to hell.

Many years ago I asked retired Major General Shlomo Gazit the following question. (He was for 20 yrears the head of research at Israel’s Directorate of Military Intelligence and in 1973, after the war, he was prevailed upon by government to become the Director with a brief to reorganise the department so there could never again be an intelligence failure as there was in the countdown to that war).

Question: “Would you object to that statement that the name of the game is helping the Jews to save themselves from themselves?”

Answer: “No I would not object.”

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By Bill, July 5, 2007 at 1:20 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

ROBERTS comments
“Remembering Israel Shahak” ....Truly excellent man, looks like!

I believe there are so many fabulous Jews and they are greatly admired almost everywhere…....but this goes for all kinds too…...we have so much to learn from each other…...
Sadly militant Jews support ethnic cleansing/murdering, land stealing and, have been behaving so outrageously FOR 60 YEARS it defies belief that ANY human could do such things…...indoctrinating children, & pressing virtual children into the Military…and, the mantra is “more territory”.....it’s like Hitler saying we need “living space”! There’s plenty of land in this world!
And… all the while “claiming to be the victims”.......If they want peace why don’t they just stay in their borders AND LEAVE THE ARABS ALONE then, they really will be “defending themselves”.
Jews have lived in total safty in Arab nations for hundreds of years!

My Encyclopeadia say’s they was 20,000 Jews in Palestine in about 1940. Obviously living happily.

I think currently Israel is occupying the territory of 5 of their neighbours….WELL THE GAME IS UP….too many people now know what the Paletinians have received in return for allowing Jewish refugees to land for safty from the 2nd world war….the Israel Govt should just leave the Arabs alone & we can all have a good time & make the world better!.......and pay compensation etc and say SORRY too…....

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By cyrena, July 5, 2007 at 12:43 am Link to this comment

#84118 by Ernest Canning on 7/04 at 10:00 pm

Prof. Canning, this post is absolutely one of your BEST. (although I like them all). I won’t re-post the entire thing, (though I am saving it for my own files) but I do want to especially thank you for pointing this out:


....“The postings by Ephraim “Lefty” Pesach, lilmamzer and ITW here and throughout Truthdig are, plain and simply, Zionist propaganda.  Invariably, they attempt to convince us that all Palestinians are raised to hate, to be fanatical killers who bear some mindless hatred for all things Jewish on religious and racial grounds.”.....

***********************
The posters that you’ve mentioned above, are certainly not the ONLY perpetrators of the Zionist propaganda. In fact, it has become far more pervasive in our general discourse, even for those who don’t engage in these more intellectual debates.

It has been fed to the masses in both blatant and covert forms…infecting many. So, there remains the collective task to wipe out this ignorance, and counter the propaganda with facts and common reason.

Thanks again.

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By Robert, July 4, 2007 at 11:44 pm Link to this comment

Remembering Israel Shahak
“A determined critic of Israel’s apartheid”

THE MOVEMENT for justice for the Palestinians lost one of its most dedicated supporters earlier this month when Israel Shahak died in Jerusalem.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

“ISRAEL SHAHAK was a Hebrew University professor of organic chemistry who won international acclaim for research that contributed to cancer treatment. He was popular with his students, winning many “teacher of the year” awards.

But Shahak’s greatest contributions came as an uncompromising critic of Israel’s apartheid system.

Anyone who wanted to understand what was really going on in Israel and the Middle East had to read Shahak’s monthly “Translations from the Hebrew Press.” Like the American radical journalist I.F. Stone, Shahak used official documents and reports from Israeli newspapers and magazines to expose the realities that “friends of Israel” and their lapdogs in the U.S. media systematically concealed.

Shahak committed his life to the cause of human rights for Palestinians after the 1967 war, when Israel won a smashing victory over Egypt, Jordan and Syria.

But if the war gave Shahak a political framework for his activism, it was a more everyday incident two years earlier that had pushed him to take a stand.

In 1965, he recalled, “I had personally witnessed an ultra-religious Jew refuse to allow his phone to be used on the Sabbath in order to call an ambulance for a non-Jew who happened to collapse in his Jerusalem neighborhood.”

Shahak called a meeting with members of the Rabbinical Court of Jerusalem to ask the state-appointed rabbis if the man’s refusal to help violated Jewish religious law. The rabbis ruled that the man had acted properly.

When Shahak heard this, he publicized the story and the Rabbinical Court’s decision in Ha’aretz, Israel’s leading Hebrew-language newspaper.

The story “caused a media scandal,” Shahak recalled. “The results of the scandal were, for me, rather negative. Neither the Israeli, nor the diaspora, rabbinical authorities ever reversed their ruling that a Jew should not violate the Sabbath in order to save the life of a Gentile.”

As if to show up the pompous rabbis, Shahak—an atheist—became an expert scholar of Judaism. His wide knowledge of the Talmud, rabbinical rulings and Jewish history helped him to challenge the Zionist concept of a “Jewish state.”

Shahak concluded that any state based on the domination of one religious group would lead to the oppression of other groups.

As Israel consolidated its hold over the Palestinian population in the Occupied Territories that it seized in 1967, Shahak became a leading voice of protest inside Israel.

Working for even these simple goals made Shahak a target for Israel’s ideological hit men—both inside and outside the country. Zionists tried many times to drive Shahak out of his job, and “friends of Israel” openly called for his assassination in the mainstream press.

The Anti-Defamation League of B’nai B’rith put Shahak on its Nixon-like “enemies list” in 1983. And, of course, Shahak was abused as a “self-hating Jew” and apologist for anti-Semites.

These were particularly offensive charges given that Shahak was a Holocaust survivor. Born in Warsaw’s Jewish Ghetto in 1933, Shahak spent most of his childhood trying to stay alive in Nazi-occupied ghettos and death camps.

Allied forces liberated Shahak and his mother from the Bergen-Belsen camp in 1945, but his father had been killed. Shahak and his mother emigrated to Palestine in 1947.

At the time, Shahak believed in Zionism—and fought in the Israeli army in the 1948 war that drove almost 1 million Palestinians from their homes. But when Shahak became an opponent of Zionism, he often compared the experience of Palestinians under Israeli rule to his own experience living under the Nazis.”

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By cann4ing, July 4, 2007 at 11:00 pm Link to this comment

The postings by Ephraim “Lefty” Pesach, lilmamzer and ITW here and throughout Truthdig are, plain and simply, Zionist propaganda.  Invariably, they attempt to convince us that all Palestinians are raised to hate, to be fanatical killers who bear some mindless hatred for all things Jewish on religious and racial grounds.  They deliberately ignore the reality of the Zionist conquest which first displaced the indigenous Palestinian population in what became Israel in 1948, followed by the the post-six day war, forty-year brutal occupation of Gaza and the West Bank.  They simply refuse to recognize that it is the racist doctrine of Zionism and its apartheid impact on the displaced and brutalized occupants of Palestine that is the core element of the conflict.

In “Beyond Chuzpah” Professor Norman Finkelstein compares these events to the 19th Century westward Euro-American expansion at the expense of Native Americans, whom Finkelstein concedes “committed many horrendous crimes.  But to understand why doesn’t require probing defects in their character or civilization.”  Finkelstein cites the principled 19th Century historian, Helen Hunt Jackson, “[T]he Indians who committed these ‘atrocities’ were simply ejecting by force, and, in the contests arising from this forcible ejectment, killing men who had usurped and stolen their lands….What would a community of white men, situated precisely as these Cherokees were, have done?”

Finkelstein adds, “To apprehend the motive behind Palestinian ‘atrocities’ this ordinary human capacity for empathy would also seem to suffice.  Imagine the bemused reaction were a historian to hypothesize that the impetus behind Native American resistance was ‘anti-Christianism’ or ‘anti-Europeanism’.” 

There is nothing unique or sinister about the Palestinian response to a brutal occupation.  There is also nothing unique in the way the brutal aggressor seeks to characterize resistance from the occupied.  In the U.S., Native Americans were called “blood thirsty savages.”  Throughout occupied Europe during World War II, the Nazis labeled the resistance movements, “terrorists.”

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By Bill, July 4, 2007 at 10:53 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“Crooked” private media is clearly the REAL root of the problem. Mass media controls “debate/ narrative” & this appears to control “the politicians & their agenda” or ...they are “targeted”. I think about 5 faceless individuals now own/control ALL the English language non Govt. mass media….(or it could possibly even indirectly be one or two foreign tax free banks?).
In Australia now I think we see saturation propaganda that would make Gobbles blush. Even the “docos” seem crooked. The vital fledgling diggs style media VERY importantly improves REAL debate…...big THANKS to Chris Hedges & Digg et al.
Progress DEMANDS laws/fines/imprisonment for owners & operators whose “deliberate or culpable” “false & misleading reporting”  directly causes death & destruction ANYWHWERE on Earth…I note the Declaration of Human Rights…...
Generally I believe Israel is the most racist, prejudiced & supremacist nation on earth” .....where on earth do I think humans treat animals as cruelly as Israel has treated the Palestinians et al?.....and CLAIM to be the “victims”....“Man of peace” Sharon say “Israel is the nation of all the Jews” ...and has a right to defend itself…but how is stealing land “defending itself”?... I assume a mad small minority in Israel and America & UK (& their stooges & shills) & all the rest of us must wake up & realise we ALL need to stand for sensible development & REAL JUSTICE for “ALL PEOPLE” globally and stop what is possibly only handful of psychotically greedy Media/banking/military+.... operatives swindling us all….and ruining this paradise we have….
I belive these crooks are truly ignorant and/or brainwashed and blinded with greed & supremacism…...a road to catastrophe for all.
BF

...................................................................................
MUST See top post by S.A. Brown above on 7/04 at 1:19 pm
(Unregistered commenter)

Why is the Israel lobby getting away with this?  I believe that much of the reason is the failure of the mainstream media to give Americans the facts about the Middle East, and especially Israel’s policies.  We can read the facts in such publications as this one, in Counterpunch and in the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, but readership is comparatively tiny.  Americans in general are fair-minded, and if they fully understood the situation there is a much better chance they would turf many of the groveling politicians in Washington and insist on “independence from Israel.” It will not happen any other way.

see the whole article above, excellent thanks SA BROWN!

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By Inherit The Wind, July 4, 2007 at 9:58 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

GodSend:
Your free advice is worth even less than it costs.
Keep your superstitions to yourself.

I give in to facts and superior logic, not fear, panic, and pathetic threats designed to frighten children.

There’s a term for messianic Jews.  It’s called “Christians”.

You are so full of rage you can’t even get straight the fact that I HATE borscht.  I just don’t like anything with beets. Always have.

Still calling me names…where’s the “nah nah nah nah nah!” 9 year olds use? That’s all you’re missing.

You are wasting my time

Don’t let the door hit you in the butt on your way out…And try not to burn any heretics at the stake until you get out the door, at least.

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By GodSend, July 4, 2007 at 8:35 pm Link to this comment

Lefty:

See my comments to ‘Windbag’ and follow the same advice. Hey, what have you got to lose? (besides your total ignorance and nasty temperament) wink

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By GodSend, July 4, 2007 at 8:32 pm Link to this comment

OK, ‘Windbag’, you proved my point - you’re nothing but a windbag. A meticulous windbag, it seems, so that’s in your favor. You are wasting my time - more importantly, you are wasting what little of your own time you have left (relatively speaking) to discover that your agnosticism is a BIG MISTAKE - no kidding! In fact, I would call it a fatal flaw - your claim to know what’s awaiting you on the ‘other side’ notwithstanding.

Here’s some well-meant and deadly serious advice:

Forget all you don’t know about God (that should be easy). Since you like borscht and such, you must be an ultra-reform Jew or possibly an agnostic Jew by birth. That’s not hopeless! Find a Messianic Jew in your neighborhood (try a nearby university campus and just walk around - you’ll find one). Introduce yourself and invite him/her to have a glass of borscht (or root beer float) with you at the nearest cafeteria. Ask him/her how they came to be a Messianic Jew. They will explain it to you and you will be amazed by what you hear. Try not to open the conversation by calling him/her insulting names such as idiot, moron, dumbass, shithead, etc. - you know what I mean. You can always do that afterwards if they don’t pick up the tab. Good Luck!

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By atheo, July 4, 2007 at 8:09 pm Link to this comment

The Israel Lobby and American Power
by Michael Lind

...Influenced by ... the oil industry, Republicans often tilted toward the Arabs (Arab regimes, not voiceless Arab populations). Republican president, George Bush Sr., enraged the Israel lobby during the Gulf war by pressuring Israel not to respond to Iraq’s missile attacks, choosing not to occupy Baghdad and promising America’s Arab allies that the U.S. would push Israel on the Palestinian issue. The elder Bush was the last president to criticize the lobby publicly, in September 1991, when he complained that “there are 1,000 lobbyists up on the Hill today lobbying Congress for loan guarantees for Israel and I’m one lonely little guy down here asking Congress to delay its consideration of loan guarantees for 120 days.”

The Democrats exploited this split between the Israel lobby and the first Bush administration. In an address to AIPAC in May 2000, presidential candidate Al Gore recalled, “I remember standing up against Bush’s foreign policy advisers who promoted the insulting concept of linkage, which tried to use loan guarantees as a stick to bully Israel. I stood with you, and together we defeated them.”
In 1997, Fran Katz, the deputy political affairs director of AIPAC, became finance director of the Democratic National Committee; the previous year, the former chairman of AIPAC, Steve Grossman, had become national chairman of the Democratic Party, telling the press, “My commitment to strengthening the U.S.-Israel relationship is unwavering.”

Clinton also appointed Martin Indyk, a veteran of a pro-Israel think-tank associated with AIPAC, as ambassador to Israel, only a few days after this Australian citizen received his U.S. citizenship papers. It is true that Clinton (and Indyk) took the Palestinian cause seriously, and the U.S. administration did push Israel further than it wanted to go on some issues prior to the Wye River agreement and in the failed Barak-Arafat negotiations. But the fact that so many of the senior U.S. administration officials involved in those failed negotiations had ties to the Israel lobby raised troubling questions about the ability of America to act as an honest broker.


Most Jewish Americans are politically hostile to George W Bush, whose alliance with the Christian right disturbs them. Yet the younger Bush has, in practice, been influenced more by the Israel lobby than by the oil lobby…

Richard Perle, chairman of Bush’s quasi-official Defense Policy Board, co-authored a 1996 paper with Douglas J. Eeith for the Likud Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu. Entitled “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm,” it advised Netanyahu to make “a clean break from the peace process.” Feith now holds one of the most important positions in the Pentagon-deputy-under-secretary of defense for policy. He argued in the National Interest in Fall 1993 that the League of Nations mandate granted Jews irrevocable settlement rights in the West Bank. In 1997, in “A Strategy for Israel,” Feith called on Israel to re-occupy “the areas under Palestinian Authority control” even though “the price in blood would be high.” On Oct. 13, 1997, Feith and his father were given awards by the right-wing Zionist Organization of America, which described the honorees as “the noted Jewish philanthropists and pro-Israel activists.”

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