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 Chris Hedges: I Don’t Believe in AtheistsPosted on May 23, 2007
By Chris Hedges (Page 2) It is by the seriousness of our commitments to compassion, indeed our ability to sacrifice for the other, especially for the outcast and the stranger, our commitment to justice—the very core of the message of the prophets and the teachings of Jesus—that we alone can measure the quality of faith. This is the meaning of true faith. As Matthew wrote. “By their fruits shall you know them.” Professed faith—what we say we believe—is not faith. It is an expression of loyalty to a community, to our tribe. Faith is what we do. This is real faith. Faith is the sister of justice. And the prophets reminded us that nothing is exempt from criticism. Revelation is continuous. It points beyond itself. And doubt, as well as a request for forgiveness, must be included in every act of faith, for we can never know or understand the will of God. The problem is not religion but religious orthodoxy. Most moral thinkers—from Socrates to Christ to Francis of Assisi—eschewed the written word because they knew, I suspect, that once things were written down they became, in the wrong hands, codified and used not to promote morality but conformity, subservience and repression. Writing freezes speech. George Steiner calls this “the decay into writing.” Language is turned from a living and fluid form of moral inquiry to a tool of bondage. The moment the writers of the Gospels set down the words of Jesus they began to kill the message. There is no room for prophets within religious institutions—indeed within any institutions—for as Paul Tillich knew, all human institutions, including the church, are inherently demonic. Tribal societies persecute and silence prophets. Open societies tolerate them at their fringes, and our prophets today come not from the church but from our artists, poets and writers who follow their inner authority. Samuel Beckett’s voice is one of modernity’s most authentically religious. Beckett, like the author of Ecclesiastes, was a realist. He saw the pathetic, empty monuments we spend a lifetime building to ourselves. He knew, as we read in Ecclesiastes, that nothing is certain or permanent, real or unreal, and that the secret of wisdom is detachment without withdrawal, that, since death awaits us all, all is vanity, that we must give up on the childish notion that one is rewarded for virtue or wisdom. In Ecclesiastes God has put ’olam into man’s mind. ’Olam usually means eternity, but it also means the sense of mystery or obscurity. We do not know what this mystery means. It teases us, as Keats wrote, out of thought. And once we recognize it and face it, simplistic answers no longer work. We are all born lost. Our vain belief in our own powers, in our reason, blinds us. Those who silenced Jesus represented all human societies, not the Romans or the Jews. When Jesus attacks the chief priests, scribes, lawyers, Pharisees, Sadducees and other “blind guides” he is attacking forms of oppression as endemic to Christianity, as to all religions and all ideologies. If civil or religious authority enforces an iron and self-righteous conformity among members of a community, then faith loses its uncertainty, and the element of risk is removed from acts of faith. Faith is then transformed into ideology. Those who deform faith into creeds, who use it as a litmus test for institutional fidelity, root religion in a profane rather than a sacred context. They seek, like all who worship idols, to give the world a unity and coherency it does not possess. They ossify the message. And once ossified it can never reach an existential level, can never rise to ethical freedom—to faith. The more vast the gap between professed faith and acts of faith, the more vast our delusions about our own grandeur and importance, the more intolerant, aggressive and dangerous we become. Faith is not in conflict with reason. Faith does not conflict with scientific truth, unless faith claims to express a scientific truth. Faith can neither be affirmed nor denied by scientific, historical or philosophical truth. Sam confuses the irrational—which he sees as part of faith—with the non-rational. There is a reality that is not a product of rational deduction. It is not accounted for by strict rational discourse. There is a spiritual dimension to human existence and the universe, but this is not irrational—it is non-rational. Faith allows us to transcend what Flaubert said was our “mania for conclusions,” a mania he described as “one of humanity’s most useless and sterile drives.” Reason allows us to worship at the idol of our intrinsic moral superiority. It is a dangerous form of idolatry, a form of faith, certainly, but one the biblical writers knew led to evil and eventually self-immolation. “We are at war with Islam,” Harris writes. “It may not serve our immediate foreign policy objectives for our political leaders to openly acknowledge this fact, but it is unambiguously so. It is not merely that we are at war with an otherwise peaceful religion that has been ‘hijacked’ by extremists. We are at war with precisely the vision of life that is prescribed to all Muslims in the Koran, and further elaborated in the literature of the hadith, which recounts the sayings and teachings of the Prophet” (P. 110). He assures us that “the Koran mandates such hatred” (P. 31 ), that “the problem is with Islam itself” (P. 28). He writes that “Islam, more than any other religion human beings have devised, has all the makings of a thoroughgoing cult of death” (P. 123). Now after studying 600 hours of Arabic, spending seven years of my life in the Middle East, most of that time as the Middle East bureau chief for The New York Times, I do not claim to be a scholar on Islam. But I do know the Koran is emphatic about the rights of other religions to practice their own beliefs and unequivocally condemns attacks on civilians as a violation of Islam. The Koran states that suicide, of any type, is an abomination. More important, the tactic of suicide bombing was pioneered as a weapon of choice by the Tamils, who are chiefly Hindu, in Sri Lanka long before it was adopted by Hezbollah, al-Qaida or Hamas. It is what you do when you do not have artillery or planes or missiles and you want to create maximum terror. Elsewhere: . Comments: 527 Published. Add Yours?Are you a Truthdig member yet? Login now, or register with Truthdig. |
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By jIM h., April 28 at 2:06 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
FIX THIS SITE? YEAR MUST BE ADDED
----------------HELLO ROBERT SCHEER;
----------THIS SITE HAS A BUGS IN IT!
YOU MUST ADD THE YEAR, AND BRING IT UP TO DATE!
--------YEAR SHOULD BE 2008, MONTH APRIL!
-------------SITE NOT UP-TO-DATE!
--------------FIX IT!-----------NOW
IF YOU DO NOT FIX THE DATEE, AND BRING IT UP-TO-DATE, I AM NOT INTERESTED IN COMMENTING FURTHER!
AND NO ONE ELSE WILL! DAY, AND YEAR MUST BE INCLUDED!
Reply to this | Report thisBy Fritzwilliam, April 28 at 10:11 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
It's So Simple
Chris Hedges, you do exactly what you criticize others for doing: taking a simple problem and making it complicated. Humans are not inherently evil--they’re inherently stupid. Everything you see and describe in your supposed anthology on the human condition leaves out one overriding (and the only) answer to the question, “Why do humans behave and believe as they do?” and it’s this: The human animal is subintelligent. Furthermore, as to whether or not there is a Darwinian connection, which you deny as the basic thesis of Dawkins and others. . .there is. The connection is the ongoing intellectual evolution of the species known as Homo Sapiens. When the species has developed sufficiently in the gray matter sense, all your talking points will become as dust on the forgotten books on all the forgotten bookshelves of the past.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Melanie Stephan, September 6, 2007 at 7:16 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Hi Jim, At times I get mad at the World to, but who are you really mad at? Are you mad at God or at Christians with twisted beliefs? God is not as evil as you make him out to be. Now some of these so called Christians are not going to Heaven either. That is why God has returned to set the record straight. Just google my name and you can find what he had to say in August 2007. If you can’t do that much you can remain ignorant.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Jim H., August 28, 2007 at 7:50 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
------------HELLO ROBERT SCHEER;
----------THIS SITE HAS A BUG IN IT!
--------------FIX IT!-----------NOW
Reply to this | Report thisBy Melanie Stephan, August 27, 2007 at 8:41 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
You can read more of what God had to say during the month of Aug. 2007, on this website [url="http://nonprophet.typepad.com/nonprophet/2005/08/are_ you_going_t.html"
rel="nofollow"] Non-Prophet, Are you going to Hell? [/url] Melanie also gives PROOF that God
Reply to this | Report thismade contact on this site. The proof is in the story of 3 famous people Mike Douglas, Merv
Griffin and Nancy Reagan. I hope you get it. God went to a lot of trouble to get his message
out. He is also worried about all of his creations. That means he thinks about you too.
By Jim H., August 16, 2007 at 8:34 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Re: 95312
samanthastevens
Samantha Says: “Could you two please take your bickering off the site and reserve it for people who actually want to discuss the content???”
I Say: If you mind your own personal business, and get to some point about what it is you wish to discuss, you are welcome!
We who are ‘here’ do not need advice, nor idiotic suggestions from you, or anyone else who is only intent upon being critical, for the sake of being critical!
If you do not like what is written, you do not have to read it!
Writewhat you want, and read what you want! And we ‘all’ shall continue to do as we did before your arrival!
If you do not like this, I suggest you go jump in a lake!
Ciao, Jim H.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Jim H., August 16, 2007 at 8:15 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Re: 89596
straight_talk_11
You say:“--- why not apply that to consciousness?” (?)
I say:What? Do you have the faintest idea what consciousness is?)
And you say: “---I ask if you believe in magic fables---”.(?)
I say: Your mind is warped! You are the ‘professor’ of makebelieve “fairytales”!
So, after demonstrating your childish naivet’e, you revert to your delusionary stance regarding any serious discussion of facts.
And after these multiple ‘faux pas’ ‘you’ have the utmost ‘gall’ to suggest that it is ‘I’ who is: “---totally unworthy of any serious debate.” (?) You are NUTS! CRAZY!
I say: “conscioness is a ‘human trait’! So, it ‘is’ the result of “EVOLUTION!” NATURALLY!
Which is without a doubt included in “Mass/Energy never disappear, Ever were, ever here”!
Therefore, you are contradicting your stated: “No argument."(?) which I say, amounts to a lie, implied, or otherwise!
DICTIONARY
consciousness: The state or condition of being conscious.
A sense of one’s personal or collective identity,
In your “more complete quote” you talk gibberish fairytales stuff, which is your ‘wont’! And not suprising to us, who ‘know’ the extent of your delusions regarding anything in the ‘real’ world!
DON’T YOU KNOW:
Religion, Judaism, Christianity, etc.; result from ‘conjectured’ outpourings of
charlatans and imbeciles who believed the World was flat?
‘Christianity” derives from the “Jewish” “Judaism” which dates back a mere 4,200 years. Before that, “God” was a “Myth” of “Mythology” used to describe every type horror fears, dangers, and horrible, destructive, and incomprehensible evils!
Isn’t it therefore scornfully ironic that the term “God” has been so twisted by those rotten crooks to supposedly mean something completely opposite?
And , aren’t you an idiot to believe the ‘charade’?
THE BIBLE?
Reply to this | Report this“Here’s a book that was ‘supposedly’ dictated by the “Creator” of the universe (?) and it describes all kinds of miracles, but, none of the authors of the book ‘witnessed’ any of the events; and, ‘they’ wrote the book a hundred years after it was ‘supposedly’ dictated by the “Creator” of the universe(?) and, after all the events in question ‘supposedly’ occurred.”
“Rational people could never accept that implausable story as fact!”
(From “The End Of Faith” By Sam Harris)
Mass/energy never disappear
Ever were ever here!
With nothing to ‘create’, a “so-called “Creator-God”
is an impossible superfluous nonentity!
J.H. 5/8/07
THE ORIGIN OF NATURE
Beginning is never found but keep an ear to the ground
Accept the word of a friend there’s no beginning or end
Natures origin for instance is ceaselessness Existence
The worst form of child abuse is warping of the mind!
JH 8/29/06
By samanthastevens, August 15, 2007 at 9:33 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Could you two please take your bickering off the site and reserve it for people who actually want to discuss the content??? You make it very difficult to navigate through your personal vendettas against each other and read something substantial. Thank you!
Reply to this | Report thisBy Jim H., July 26, 2007 at 6:28 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Re: 89857
straight_talk_11
You say :Jim H., “---You continue to twist everything I say---.”
I say: You are LYING AGAIN! I have quoted your WORDS EXACTLY!
True: I have not shown interest in your attempt to distract with spin, and have only quoted excerpts, but I have ‘highlighted, copied and pasted’ ‘your words’ so, ‘they ‘are’ ‘your’ words!
In your “more complete quote” you talk gibberish, fairytales stuff, which is your ‘wont’! And not suprising to us, who ‘know’ the extent of your delusions regarding anything in the ‘real’ world!
More reasons to PROVE you are totally incompetent regarding debating, and unable to be serious about anything except an imaginary “God”, and constantly digressing from the subject.
And, with your tenacious stance regarding your warped and deluded view of reality you are un-fit to debate an eighth grader about the weather!
Get Help!
Reply to this | Report thisBy straight_talk_11, July 26, 2007 at 4:25 pm #
(241 comments total)
Jim H., you have your own special brand of “reasoning” that complies with no known principles of logic. You continue to twist everything I say by applying bits of it totally out of context. I don’t even know whether your brain is capable of holding anything in it long enough to understand what context means. You call everyone around you insane, yet your ranting posts make me wonder which hospital you’re in. So forget it, OK? That ought to be easy for you, since by the end of any sentence you’ve already forgotten what the first part said.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Jim H., July 26, 2007 at 7:42 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Re: 89596
straight_talk_11
You say:“--- why not apply that to consciousness?”
And you say: “---I ask if you believe in magic fables---.(?)
So, after demonstrating your childish naivet’e, you revert to your delusionary stance regarding any serious discussion of facts.
And after these multiple ‘faux pas’ ‘you’ have the utmost ‘gall’ to suggest that it is ‘I’ who is: “---totally unworthy of any serious debate.” (?) You are NUTS!
I say: “conscioness is a ‘human trait’! So, it ‘is’ the result of “EVOLUTION!” NATURALLY!
Which is without a doubt included in “Mass/Energy never disappear, Ever were, ever here”!
Therefore, you are contradicting your stated: “No argument."(?) which I say, amounts to a lie, implied, or otherwise!
DICTIONARY
consciousness: The state or condition of being conscious.
A sense of one’s personal or collective identity,
In your “more complete quote” you talk gibberish fairytales stuff, which is your ‘wont’! And not suprising to us, who ‘know’ the extent of your delusions regarding anything in the ‘real’ world!
DON’T YOU KNOW:
Religion, Judaism, Christianity, etc.; result from ‘conjectured’ outpourings of
charlatans and imbeciles who believed the World was flat?
‘Christianity” derives from the “Jewish” “Judaism” which dates back a mere 4,200 years. Before that, “God” was a “Myth” of “Mythology” used to describe every type horror fears, dangers, and horrible, destructive, and incomprehensible evils!
Isn’t it therefore scornfully ironic that the term “God” has been so twisted by those rotten crooks to supposedly mean something completely opposite?
And , aren’t you an idiot to believe the ‘charade’?
THE BIBLE?
Reply to this | Report this“Here’s a book that was ‘supposedly’ dictated by the “Creator” of the universe (?) and it describes all kinds of miracles people claim they witnessed, but, none of the authors of the book ‘witnessed’ any of the events; and, ‘they’ wrote the book a hundred years after it was ‘supposedly’ dictated by the “Creator” of the universe(?) and, after all the events in question ‘supposedly’ occurred.”
“Rational people could never accept that implausable story as fact!
By straight_talk_11, July 25, 2007 at 8:05 pm #
(241 comments total)
To Jim H.:
Quoting myself in 88415:
“No argument. So why not apply that to consciousness? You know matter and energy didn’t come from nothing. Maybe consciousness didn’t either. Or do you believe in magical fables that say it just popped up out of nowhere through evolutionary process somehow?”
Jim H., in the more COMPLETE quote above anyone (but you, apparently) can see that I am talking about consciousness when I ask if you believe in magic fables that say it (CONSCIOUSNESS) just popped up out of nowhere. Over and over you have proven yourself to be totally unworthy of any serious debate.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Jim H., July 25, 2007 at 6:00 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Re: 88974
straight_talk_11 et al.
First you qouted me:
“Mass/Energy never disapear
Ever were,ever here”
To ‘this’ you said: “No argument."(?)
‘Then’, you said:“Or, do you believe---it just popped up out of nowhere---.”(?)
I say this is ‘questioning’ what I have stated very succinctly! And, it is a contradiction of “No argument."(?) which I say, amounts to a lie, implied, or otherwise!
Regarding your ‘conceptual’ “God”:
How did you come to believe such stuff?
Who told you about it?
Someone infected your brain with that infectious plague-like disease!
And you have been delusional like a cocaine addict, ever since!
Riding on a cloud, avoiding harsh reality, with a Myth for companionship!
Why do you, and, why should anyone else, believe, in your fairytale “God”?
Why do you believe something never proved?
If you only believe it because other fools do, and it comes from a “book” just like like “Little Orphan Annie”
Why don’t you insist “Little Orphan Annie” is also real? Aren’t they both unproven makebelieve fairytale characters, like your farcical “Jesus”?
You ‘talk’ about an IMPOSSIBLE “BEGINNING”? That never happened!
Reply to this | Report thisYou cite a filthy, slimy cesspool of sick pornography called “The “Bible” !
And ‘name’ a MAKEBELIEVE FAIRYTALE CREATOR! You call “God”?
Why? There is not one iota of truth, or proof, to support that lie!
Can’t you admit you have been a patsy sap, brainwashed by other fools?
Wake up and “REPENT”?
If you have the minutest bit of ETHICAL, OR MORAL DECENCY left,
beneath the cancerous religion-delusion abscesses of your brain,
and would sincerely want to benefit mankind, you will ‘go’ “cold turkey”
get that ugly felonious monkey off your back, and do everything you
can to atone for all the minds you have destroyed and wasted with the
lies you have perpetrated, and promoted in behalf of those felonious
criminal charlatans who enslave, rape and rob children, and make
them into manipulated mindless robots like you, that your progeny will suffer from.
Those rotten rats will soon dominate the entire World with their “Theocracy”!
“God” is a conjecture, the “Universe” is fact!
Mass/energy never disappear
Ever were ever here!
J.H. 5/8/07
With nothing to ‘create’, a “so-called “Creator-God”
is an impossible superfluous nonentity!
If you postulate “God” always was?
This trabslates to:
“The Universe always was!”
Because: “God” is conjecture!
The Universe is fact!
By straight_talk_11, July 23, 2007 at 6:34 pm #
(241 comments total)
Quoting Jim H. who is quoting excerpts from me:
But, then, in “the rest of-(your)- post” you immediately said: “---matter and energy didn’t come from nothing---.” “Or do you believe--- it just popped up out of nowhere---.”
Which questions, and contradicts “no argument”, and amounts to a bold faced lie! Because, you are asserting there once was nothing!
----
How, after stating that it doesn’t, then asking, “or do you believe” that it does, contradict what I said? It CONFIRMS what you said, YOU DINGBAT!!! Where do I assert that there once was nothing. The whole post says there was never nothing. God always was, consciousness always was, matter and energy always were. THAT’S WHAT IT SAYS!!! EVEN IN YOUR QUOTE IT SAYS THAT!!!!
It says matter and energy DIDN’T come from nothing, just like you say it doesn’t! It DOES NOT POP UP FROM NOTHING, JUST LIKE YOU SAY IT DOESN’T! IT WAS ALWAYS THERE!!!! And I say it was always there and that I don’t believe God created the universe at some particular time in the past, but that it was always and ever will be! And I say that I believe God continually creates the universe, and have said in previous posts that the laws of nature, in my opinion, are aspects of God’s intelligence.
Then later, I ask if you believe CONSCIOUSNESS just pops up from nothing. I am no longer talking about energy and matter and I made that clear in the post. I say it’s just as stupid and without foundation to say that consciousness pops up from nothing as it is to say energy and matter do.
IN OTHER WORDS, I agree that energy and matter were always there and in the same way, consciousness was also always there. I agree with you and attempt to show that you should agree with me that just as matter was always there and doesn’t come from nothing, so was consciousness always there and doesn’t come from nothing.
How in Sam’s Hill could you mess up your reading SO, SO BADLY EVEN AFTER I CORRECT IT? HOW? HOW? HOW?
Reply to this | Report thisBy Jim H., July 22, 2007 at 8:06 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Re: 88584
straight_talk_11
Why do you have so much difficulty understanding YOUR very own words YOU write?
I say: It is true that you said: “No argument."(?)
But, then, in “the rest of-(your)- post” you immediately said: “---matter and energy didn’t come from nothing---.” “Or do you believe--- it just popped up out of nowhere---.”
Which questions, and contradicts “no argument”, and amounts to a bold faced lie! Because, you are asserting there once was nothing!
When you say, “I agree with you, and, then disagree, ‘THAT’ IS A LIE!
And the rest of that post is gobbledygook garbage!
There is no question that you are DELUSIONAL, and that somewhere sometime you were mesmerized, or indoctrinated into believing that asinine notion about some kind “Supreme ‘Being’, which you decided to redesign to better fit your own idea of what a makebelieve farcical “God” should be! And apparently, you are still in the process of ‘perfecting’ your new design! You can’t face “Cold Turkey” renunciation!
It seems as though you may be coming to your senses slowly, but you are having a problem facing the fact that for so long, when you thought you were a brilliant example of humanity, you became enslaved to the idea, and enamored by the belief and a mental image of “God”, which you now realize was all a lie and a fantasy, that you should have seen through long ago. So, naturally, it is a shock to your ego, and stirs a slow burning sensation up your spine into your head, to finally accept that you have been a patsy, and a chump!
Reply to this | Report thisBy straight_talk_11, July 21, 2007 at 8:15 pm #
(241 comments total)
In case you never heard the expression before, dingy, “no argument” means I have no argument with that. And if you know how to read the rest, it underscores that meaning. If nothing else told your ailing brain what that expression meant, the rest of my post should have. No wonder you don’t get my arguments. You don’t get much of anything at all in life, do you?
Then you call me a liar because I said I agree with you? Just where do you get off, bozo?
Reply to this | Report thisBy Jim H., July 21, 2007 at 2:50 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
RE:88522
straight_talk_11
You say: “Can’t you see I’m agreeing with you,---"(?) THIS IS A LIE!
In your “88415” Post, You said: Quoting me
“Mass/energy never disappear
Ever were ever here!”
Jim H.
And, you said: “No argument."(?)
Then, you contradict YOURSELF, AND, ME!
When you say: “---You(?) know (?)’matter’ (?)and energy(?) didn’t come from nothing.---"(?)
THIS IS AN ABSURD CONTRADICTION! And, ‘THIS’ IS NOT “AGREEING WITH ME!”
It’s just Another lie! And you cannot even READ your own writing!
For your edification, “matter” is included in the ‘terms’ “Mass/Energy” which has always been extant in the Universe!
And I said: “---THERE NEVER, NEVER WAS ‘NOTHING’!
Got That? “Mass/Energy Never disappear Ever were Ever here”!
Reply to this | Report thisBy straight_talk_11, July 21, 2007 at 1:40 pm #
(241 comments total)
Quote from Jim H. quoting me:
“No argument.---- You know matter and energy didn’t come from nothing.” (?)
Can’t you see I’m agreeing with you, you id**t? I’m saying they always were there. I state this even more specifically further below in the same comment. Who is it who can’t read? Wow, man!
I even reinforce that agreement with you to say I don’t believe God created the universe sometime in the past, but that He continually creates it. I don’t believe the universe began at 12:00 AM, Standard Big Bang Time. Many physicists don’t either. They think there are more than one big bang and our big bang was not the beginning of the universe.
Quit telling me I don’t know how to read when your assumptions that I’m disagreeing with you are so stupidly strong that you don’t even notice when I agree. What kind of blithering *#)^%! am I dealing with?????
Reply to this | Report thisBy Jim H., July 20, 2007 at 9:06 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
88415
straight_talk_11
You quote: “Mass/energy never disappear
Ever were ever here!”
- Jim H.
Then, you say: “No argument.---- You know matter and energy didn’t come from nothing.” (?)
I say “matter and energy ALWAYS WERE! THERE NEVER, NEVER WAS ‘NOTHING’ !!!!!!!!!!!!
I say: Now! you cannot even read! Or you cannot comprehend a very edifying and succinct message!
The words describe the Universe we live in!
They say: “Mass/Energy never disappear! Got That? ALWAYS HERE, NEVER DISAPPEAR!
The next line which no doubt you did not read says: (referring to the prior words) “Ever were ever here”.
Now, if Mass and/or Energy were ‘ALWAYS’ here, then there NEVER was NOTHING! Idiot!
The rest of your ridiculous asinine diatribe that rambles on about other mindless conceptions you dizzy your mind with, are not worth more than this!
Please, address your tortuous words, and quests for salvation to your confessor, and leave me out of your thoughts?
Mass/energy never disappear
Ever were ever here!
J.H. 5/8/07
With nothing to ‘create’, a “so-called “Creator-God”
is an impossible superfluous nonentity!
THE ORIGIN OF NATURE
Reply to this | Report thisBeginning is never found but keep an ear to the ground
Accept the word of a friend there’s no beginning or end
Natures origin for instance is ceaselessness Existence
The worst form of child abuse is warping of the mind!
JH 8/29/06
By straight_talk_11, July 20, 2007 at 8:11 pm #
(241 comments total)
“Mass/energy never disappear
Ever were ever here!”
- Jim H.
No argument. So why not apply that to consciousness? You know matter and energy didn’t come from nothing. Maybe consciousness didn’t either. Or do you believe in magical fables that say it just popped up out of nowhere through evolutionary process somehow? How do you know that God’s body is not the cosmos and that “it” (the cosmic body) isn’t a lot more comprehensively conscious than your little body? And if it isn’t, why is your little body conscious? Why do you think consciousness has to be always obvious in such a localized way as in the case of a human body?
I, as well as many physicists, do not believe in a beginning of time either, as I think is correctly implied at the end of your quote “...ever were here”. If there is such a beginning, what time was it when time began? It’s a little weird to postulate a beginning for time.
So you might guess rightly from this that I don’t think God created the universe at some point in time, much less in six earth days, resting on the seventh (oops, more blasphemy?). I think he perpetually generates the entire universe, and I’m not even sure that time is real in any ultimate sense, just as many physicists are beginning to suspect. It may just be an illusory by-product of the recursion responsible for diversity generation through symmetry breaking within the fundamental field that is the unity underlying all physical phenomena.
So I guess you think that kind of thinking came from being brainwashed by religious zealots? Try again, pal! It didn’t come from atheistic scientists either, did it? So maybe some people actually know how to think for themselves, yet believe in the existence of God! What a radical idea, huh?! And maybe a lot of atheists just swallow others’ thoughtless mindset that automatically sees anything not immediately apparent on the surface of life as unreal.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Jim H., July 20, 2007 at 6:05 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Re:88354
Reply to this | Report thisstraight_talk_
You say:"My beliefs are the consequence of my own experience---"(?) Belief in a Supreme---Intelligence---does not require brain washing"(?) (Not true!) (Another lie!)
Absurd! At some time in your past ‘someone’ mentioned “God” to you! And, you were “BRAINWASHED”!
I say: Unless you INVENTED the idea of a “God”, which you did Not!, you, at some time, have been “brainwashed” into believing in something called “God” which apparently, ‘you’ decided to re-invent!
I say: “Belief in a Supreme Intelligence”, which you admit you only “postulate”, guess!, is absurd!
There is absolutely no ‘reasoning’ behind ‘such’ “postulating”! It’s mere conjecture, speculation,etc.!
You mention: Supreme Conscious"(?) (ABSURD! This is an un-provable absurdity! Ridiculous!)
You mention:"Supreme---Intelligence"(?) (ABSURD another un-provable absurdity! Ridiculous!)
You say: “I have demonstrated my postulates are not speculative---"(?) (WRONG!) (ANOTHER LIE!)
I say: that statement is another LIE! ‘You know’ that ALL POSTULATES are GUESSES! STABS IN THE DARK! CONJECTURE! IMAGINATION! DREAMS! WILD HOPES!
YOU HAVE ADMITTED IT BY SAYING: “POSTULATES ARE UNPROVEABLE”! DON’T YOU REMEMBER?
AND, ‘ALL’ “POSTULATES” ARE “SPECULATIVE”! WAKE UP!
If you are going to keep up you repetitive lying, don’t address Jim H. anymore.
You are not proving anything to me! I have got your number!, and I am convinced that, in addition to all your pschycotic delusions, the rest of your mind has finally snapped, and you no longer can distinguish between postulates and facts, or right and wrong, or truth and lies, so, go ‘chin’ with some other citizens of your make believe, fairyland world, where all will agree with you, and enjoy the pleasure of your ignorance!
Mass/energy never disappear
Ever were ever here!
J.H. 5/8/07
With nothing to ‘create’, a “so-called “Creator-God”
is an impossible superfluous nonentity!
By straight_talk_11, July 20, 2007 at 4:12 pm #
(241 comments total)
Jim H., thank you for being at least in a semi-communicable mode in your response to my last post. I accept your partial apology even though the insulting aspects of your style have not completely abated.
I ask humbly that you consider these simple points:
1) My beliefs would be considered blasphemy by most who you seem to assume have brainwashed me with their fables.
2) I clearly do not tow their party line, no matter what the religion.
3) My beliefs are the consequence of my own experience and empirical observations combined with my best understanding of science and mathematics and the structure of nature and natural phenomena.
4) Belief in a Supreme and Conscious Intelligence underlying the cosmos does not require any brainwashing from any external source. It is no less reasonable, and in fact, I believe more reasonable, than the opposite assumption.
5) The existence of a Supreme and Conscious Intelligence and the non-existence of such a God are both assumptions.
6) There is no argument that does not ultimately rest on postulates.
7) Not all postulates are created equal. Some are reasonable inferences based on observable reality, including the abstract structures we call theory deduced from multiple observations, and others are just purely speculative.
8) I have amply demonstrated that my postulates are not purely speculative and that they are at least as reasonable as their negations.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Jim H., July 19, 2007 at 6:02 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Re: 88063
straight_talk_11
You Say: “---your posts regarding postulates, etc.(re)---science, mathematics,---"(?)
I say, ‘you’ are the “postulates” proponent! I, being an inventor, must keep MY postulates secret; until I protect the ‘end product’ by patent!
And, I have not discussed mathmatics, here; so, you continnue to spin, away from the subject at hand!
I suppose I owe you an apology for believing you are one of those criminal charlatan Evangelical crooks who ravage little kids after convincing them it is the only way they can be granted grace for the “sin” (whatever that means) they were “born’ with”!
But, I have never before known of someone who was ‘not’ a “member of Clergy” that spent so much effort, and wrenched out so much perverted diatribe in an effort to support such tenuous assertions about a makebelieve, fairytale symbol of ones insanity.
And, after all our ebb, and flow of disagreeing verbiage, I can only wonder who, or what is responsible for doing such a masterful job of ‘inducting’ you into the army of imberciles that the ‘Godist’ religious minions epitomize. You appear so ‘addicted’ to that scheme, that I think of those little Muslim kids that thrill at the opportunity to die in an act of MURDERING non-believers, to prove they know better!
Your apparent bewitchment appears so strong that I have no doubt if we were living in earlier times here in the USA, you would try to have me “pilloried” or stoned to death, as a heretic! Such is the depth of your ‘bigotry’, and conviction that a “postulate”, guess, is far better than any established proven fact!
A fully sane, reasonable person would totally reject your “God” if for no other reason than that ‘it’ required absolute bigotry, and rejection and repugnance for one’s fellow man, who did not accept this farce! Such a dividing influence is the antithisis of the harmonious uniting indivisibility, our nation is meant to be!
Mass/energy never disappear
Ever were ever here!
JH 5/8/07
With nothing to ‘create’, a “so-called “Creator-God”
is an impossible superfluous nonentity!
THE ORIGIN OF NATURE
Beginning is never found but keep an ear to the ground
Accept the word of a friend there’s no beginning or end
Natures origin for instance is ceaselessness Existence
The worst form of child abuse is warping of the mind!
JH 8/29/06
If anything ever was
Reply to this | Report thisIt is what you see
Not what may be!
JH 7/19/07
By straight_talk_11, July 19, 2007 at 2:26 pm #
(241 comments total)
You call me a liar and then talk as if I were clergy with a congregation. I have never been clergy. Do not plan to be. I have never made a penny peddling religious beliefs of any kind. So you quit lying. And your posts regarding postulates, etc. are pure, uncomprehending idiocy recognizable by anyone with even a minimal understand of science, mathematics, or any other such logically rigorous discipline no matter what your age.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Jim H., July 18, 2007 at 5:17 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Re:87740
Rev. straight? talk Dr. of Div.
You say: “Jim H., you’re apparently---about 8 years---."(?)
I say: Doesn’t this sort of a statement ‘exclaim’ a limitation of a writer’s reasoning powers?
Regardless of how outlandish, illogical, incorrect, or critical that any and all posts addressed to you, “straight(?) talk, appear to you; no one in their right ‘mind’ could ever imagine ANY “8 year old” capable of dealing those death blows to your ego, and your preposterous asinine lying attempts to deceive everyone, that have been incorporated into these pages!
It only remains to be said, that you like many other fools before you, are, by that absurd remark making an hebetudinous, unsucessful effort to stifle the truth by attempting to “discredit the messenger”!
But, I have no doubt that many 8 year olds would laugh you out of sight, if they were not suffering from the same insane delusions you are so sick with!
Haven’t you stolen enough from your flock of innocents, and fools? Why not stop all the lies, and try somehow to ‘atone’ for all the ‘rotteness’ you have caused those whose lives you have ‘destroyed’, and their progeny, who will also suffer, as the result of the branding, mesmerizing, indoctrination you have used to enslave, and warp their forebears minds with your absurd delusions? You people all belong in jail!
At your very next Church meeting, tell your flock that you “have discovered the truth”; that “there is no such thing as a “God”,” and that you have been lying just to swindle all the money you could squeeze out of them, so that you could live like a rich person, and enjoy the pleasures that only money can provide.
Your nose must be elongating like Pinnochio’s! Check your mirror when you next powder it!
Reply to this | Report thisBy straight_talk_11, July 18, 2007 at 11:49 am #
(241 comments total)
Jim H., you’re apparently either about 8 years old or you’re an idiot.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Jim H., July 17, 2007 at 9:23 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Re: 87567 & 87571
Rev. straight_talk_11
You are like a broken record, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat absurdities!
I have repeatedly pointed out to you what, ‘even you’ have admitted, i.e., that “postulates” are worthless! guesses in this context! You cannot use postulates to PROVE anything TO ME!
Use postulates to attempt to arrive at a sensible intelligent PROVABLE FACT, then, present the fact!
If you cannot understand this, go immediately to the last school you attended and ask for your money back, or sue them, you are a partially educated illiterate, and a danger to all!
You are extremely confused! You have ADMITTED as much by saying “postulates cannot be proven”,and then asking me to: “show where my postulates are wrong?” (Your words!)
If all you have is postulates, which I have said again, again and you have ADMITTED, “do not prove anything”, then you are a fool not to realize what you are saying!
By your own statement, you are accepting a “POSTULATE” whch “cannot be proven”, as a reason, or fact for believing a figment of your own (postulate, guess, imagination)!
Then to ask someone to argue against the insanity of that kind of assertion, a “guess”, is to ask for company in your own little corner of your insane world! Which ‘I’ refuse to join!
Simply stated: YOU’RE NUTS!
You talk about “logic” but you are illogical! You need to have someone read back to you several of your posts so you may come to realize how very illogical your ridiculous persistance in offering postulated guesses as proof of something!
Though “postulated” guesses are used to help arrive at what may become a valid conclusion, they of themselves, do not PROVE ANYTHING!
And I do not wish to debate the possible validity of an idiot’s “postulated” guesses!
Instead of babbling a diatribe about the relativivity of postulates to logical deductions,
use the information to PROVE SOMETHING!
I don’t need that info, you do! so follow it, to it’s “logical” conclusion, and see if you can come up with anything other than your inane, asinine, farcical conception of a delusion!
Haven’t you stolen enough from your flock of innocents, and fools? Why not stop all the lies, and try somehow to ‘atone’ for all the rotteness you have caused those whose lives you have touched, and their
progeny, who will also suffer as the result of the branding, mesmerizing, indoctrination you have used to warp their forebears minds? You people all belong in jail!
At your very next Church meeting, tell your flock that you have discovered the truth; that there is no such thing as a “God”, and that you have been lying just to swindle all the money you could squeeze out of them, so that you could live like a rich person, and enjoy the plelasures that only money can provide.
And stop snooping into my personal privacy! Your nose is elongating like Pinnochio’s!
Reply to this | Report thisBy straight_talk_11, July 17, 2007 at 6:43 pm #
(241 comments total)
Jim H., you don’t seem to understand the most elementary things concerning induction, deduction, logic, or the construction of intellectual models we call theories. Physical science and mathematical systems originally start from hypotheses that may eventually become the axioms, premises, or postulates (all of which terms are essentially synonymous) upon which evolving theories and mathematical systems are based.
If you can do better than this, show the world how.
Reply to this | Report thisBy straight_talk_11, July 17, 2007 at 6:36 pm #
(241 comments total)
RE: 87315 by Jim H. on 7/16 at 6:18 pm
Quoting Jim H:
You say:"---(No) readers--- have---critiqued --- my postulates (claims)---?
This is but another audacious lie!
I have repeatedly said, or implied, that your “postulate” (claimed) (’Godist’ ) “Creator God” or other conceptual idea of “God” you may have, is an absurd!, makebelieve fairytale tool of charlatans like you, used to enslave innocent children, and fools! Prove otherwise!
End quote
So here we have the proof of what I’ve said. You respond to my statement that no readers have intelligently critiqued my statements and that you respond only by repeating opposing statements without showing why my postulates are ill-founded or why my logic is flawed.
You claim in the above statement to have done so, but once more you only repeat opposing viewpoints. That is not a critique of my postulates or my logic. You attack me for admitting that my logic is founded on certain postulates. Do you understand that all logic has to start from postulates? Do you understand that neither you or anyone else can ever avoid that simple fact?
How old are you, anyway? You don’t want to seem to answer that question. Maybe you would have to lie, which would make you what you’re calling me...a liar?
Reply to this | Report thisBy Jim H., July 16, 2007 at 6:43 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Re: 87274
Rev. Stray;
You are telling too many lies, and it’s all in your inane and idiotic posts for everyone to see!
You have said: “I have given compelling reasons---?” AN OUTRIGHT LIE!
You have also said: “I think there are---compelling reasons"(?) THIS PROVES YOU’RE A LIAR!
I say: ‘That’ statement “---think there are---reasons”, says it all! It means: you have not “given---reasons! And, PROVES YOU’RE A LIAR!
Then, You say: “You have not shown WHY my postulates(?) are ‘unreasonable’ or unfounded.”
I say: Who cares about your “Postulates” ‘they’ are ‘NOT’ “REASONS”! You are lying when calling them reasons!
Then you ‘ADMIT’: “Postulates are not provable---."(!) (Your own words!) Stop “postulating”!
I have repeatedly said, or implied you can not provide one iota of proof, or a valid reason for your invented makebelieve fairytales “God”!
How can you lie so much, and so often, and then keep teling lie after lie in an attempt to support all the rest of your repeated lies, without knowing that you are doing it?
You say:"---(No) readers--- have---critiqued --- my postulates (claims)---?
This is but another audacious lie!
I have repeatedly said, or implied, that your “postulate” (claimed) (’Godist’ ) “Creator God” or other conceptual idea of “God” you may have, is an absurd!, makebelieve fairytale tool of charlatans like you, used to enslave innocent children, and fools! Prove otherwise!
Where, from whom, or how did you ever come to imagine such a stupid idea?
Your problem is that ‘you’ have accepted (without proof) something that neither you, nor anyone else, can prove ever existed, and, based on your HALUCINATORY acceptance of a virtual “pig-in-a-poke” you want others to believe what you absolutely, have no valid reason for believing!
If you were the least bit HONEST, and serious, about truth, you would endeavor to find a valid reason for your surrender to such an overpowering addiction, that has caused your outlandish renunciation of sanity in favor of a benumbing, fawning delusionary idolatry that has deprived you of your innate reasoning!
WHY do you believe this great lie?
Where’s the evidence?
How did you first come to believe in this illusory, chimerical conception?
Who told you about such a ‘thing’ ?
What made you accept that person’s ‘word’ about ‘it’?
If after a very thorough research, you came to realize that what you have accepted as true, and believed in for so long, was beyond any doubt whatsoever, totally incompatable with reason, or fact; do you believe you have the mental power to withstand the the hurtful shock to your ego, that admitting to yourself would cause, from knowing you have been a victim, a patsy, and a fool, to have ever believed the lies that caught you so unprepared to deal with it, from the very first?
“POSTULATES” do not prove anything, and are totally worthless as PROOF for anything at all!
You have said: (Outlandishly!) “---God---"creates(?) from within---"(?)
I say: Prove it! What does your delusion of “God” create?
Aren’t you sensible enough to realize that what cannot be proven, is not fact, but folly? And that claims are worthless unless supported by facts, PROOF!
You say: “Postulates” are not provable."(!) (Your words!)
So, why, when you admit ‘they’ are ‘worthless’, do you ask someone: to “show- why, (your) “postulates” are unreasonable or unfounded."(?) (worthlesss!)
Not proveable, means: guesswork, speculation, conjecture, infer, suppose, surmize, suggest, imply, hint, intimate, unfounded, without reason, fallacious, containing fundamental errors in reasoning: false, illogical, invalid, sophistic, specious, spurious, deceptive, delusive, ‘delusory’, illusive, illusory, unsound, misleading, assumption, ‘postulate’, without ‘proof’, judgment, estimate, or opinion arrived at by ‘guessing’, and implauseable!
Reply to this | Report thisBy Jim H., July 16, 2007 at 6:18 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Re: 87274
Rev. Stray;
You have said: “I have given compelling reasons---?” THIS IS AN OUTRIGHT LIE!
You have also said: “I ‘think’ there are---compelling reasons"(?) THIS PROVES YOU ARE A LIAR!
Then, You say: “You have not shown WHY my postulates(?) are ‘unreasonable’ or unfounded.”
I say: Who cares about your “Postulates” ‘they’ are ‘NOT’ “REASONS”! So, you are lying when calling them reasons!
Then you ADMIT: “Postulates are not provable, of course."(!) (Your own words!)
I say: I am not concerned with your idiotic claims, “postulates”! Stop “postulating”!
I have repeatedly said, or implied you can not provide one iota of proof, or a valid reason for your invented makebelieve fairytales “God”!
How can you lie so much, and so often, and then keep teling lie after lie in an attempt to support all the rest of your repeated lies, without knowing that you are doing it?
You say:"---(No) readers--- have---critiqued --- my postulates (claims)---?
This is but another audacious lie!
I have repeatedly said, or implied, that your “postulate” (claimed) (’Godist’ ) “Creator God” or other conceptual idea of “God” you may have, is an absurd!, makebelieve fairytale tool of charlatans like you, used to enslave innocent children, and fools! Prove otherwise!
Where, from whom, or how did you ever come to imagine such a stupid idea?
Your problem is that ‘you’ have accepted (without proof) something that neither you, nor anyone else, can prove ever existed, and, based on your HALUCINATORY acceptance of a virtual “pig-in-a-poke” you want others to believe what you absolutely, have no valid reason for believing!
If you were the least bit HONEST, and serious, about truth, you would endeavor to find a valid reason for your surrender to such an overpowering addiction, that has caused your outlandish renunciation of sanity in favor of a benumbing, fawning delusionary idolatry that has deprived you of your innate reasoning!
WHY do you believe this great lie?
Where’s the evidence?
How did you first come to believe in this illusory, chimerical conception?
Who told you about such a ‘thing’ ?
What made you accept that person’s ‘word’ about ‘it’?
If after a very thorough research, you came to realize that what you have accepted as true, and believed in for so long, was beyond any doubt whatsoever, totally incompatable with reason, or fact; do you believe you have the mental power to withstand the the hurtful shock to your ego, that admitting to yourself would cause, from knowing you have been a victim, a patsy, and a fool, to have ever believed the lies that caught you so unprepared to deal with it, from the very first?
Aren’t you sensible enough to realize that what cannot be proven, is not fact, but folly?
And “POSTULATES” do not prove anything, and are totally worthless as PROOF for anything at all!
You have said: (Outlandishly!) “---God---"creates(?) from within---"(?)
I say: Prove it! What does your delusion of “God” create?
I say: Why don’t you attempt to prove the validity of your assertions?
Where’s the evidence?
How did you first come to believe in this apparently illusory, chimerical conception?
Who told you about such a ‘thing’ ?
What made you accept that person’s ‘word’ about ‘it’?
If after a very thorough research, you came to realize that what you have accepted as true and believed in for so long, was beyond any doubt whatsoever, totally incompatable with reason, or fact, do you believe you have the mental power to withstand the the hurtful shock to your ego, that admitting to yourself would cause that you have been a victim, a patsy, and a fool to have ever believed the lies that caught you so unprepared to deal with it from the very first?
Aren’t you sensible enough to realize that claims are worthless unless supported by facts, PROOF!
You say: “Postulates” are not provable."(!) (Your words!)
Reply to this | Report thisBy straight_talk_11, July 16, 2007 at 12:46 pm #
(241 comments total)
Jim H., again, you have failed to say anything useful. You just call me a liar and make stupid statements of opinion you’ve made before. You do not direct your attention to anything I’ve said other than to state a contrary opinion, which is utterly useless. You have not ever shown WHY my postulates are unreasonable or unfounded. You have not shown WHERE my logic is invalid. You have simply stated an opposite opinion and attached unfounded labels, just as you’re doing in this last silly post of yours.
Postulates are not provable, of course. But there is no body of intellectual thought that does not start from postulates. The rest comes from logical deduction of what the postulates imply. You should know this just from plane geometry and the postulates of Euclid. This is stuff we used to study in the tenth grade and I assume is still being taught in high school.
I’m repeating material from my earlier posts here:
The postulates of Euclidean geometry are well-founded in terms of their empirical usefulness and because they are easily verifiable by empirical induction that can be replicated by anyone who wishes to bother. Even so, they are not “true” in any final sense, but turn out to be a special case of more general Riemannian geometry. There is no intellectual model that is ultimately provable in the sense you demand and every model has to have the fundamental, axiomatic assumptions based on observable utility we call postulates.
How old are you, anyway? Your comments have no intellectual content worthy of a teenager, much less an adult.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Jim H., July 15, 2007 at 3:01 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Re: 87091& 87095
straight_talk_11
You say: “---’MORE’ (?) compelling reasons---?” “---they’re already here.” “---I have (offered) compelling reasons---” (?)
I say: LIAR! You have not cited even ONE! Liar!
I Say: You are a ‘disgusting’ LIAR! You have not offered even ONE REASON! for any one to accept your so called, absurd “POSTULATES”!
A “postulate” is a CLAIM! It is ‘NOT’ a REASON!
DICTIONARY: postulate
To make a claim (?)
To assume(?) or assert(?) .
YOU HAVE SAID: (these are your own words) “I think there are---compelling reasons"(?)
I say:That statement (think) says it all! IT PROVES YOU ARE A LIAR!
Even a dope like you should know that “think” there is a reason, is NOT stating a REASON!
And it shows that you have not provided even one (1) “REASON”!
Not even one (1) reason in all of your critically bigoted babbling attempt to “prove” the un -proveable!
Not one (1) reason to support your ceaseless lies!
How can you lie so much, and so often, and then keep teling lie after lie in an attempt to support all the rest of your repeated lies, without knowing what you are doing?
You say:"---(No) readers--- have---critiqued --- my postulates (claims)---?
This is but another audacious lie!
I have repeatedly said, or implied, that your “postulate” (claimed) (’Godist’ ) “Creator God” or other conceptual idea of “God” you may have, is an absurd!, makebelieve fairytale tool of charlatans like you, used to enslave innocent children, and fools !
Prove otherwise!
Where, from whom, or how did you ever come to imagine such a stupid idea?
Reply to this | Report thisBy straight_talk_11, July 15, 2007 at 1:36 pm #
(241 comments total)
#86700 by nahida on 7/13 at 2:03 pm
Dear Nahida,
Thank you for your kind and well-spoken words. I agree with you on the psychological need for atheists to deny the existence of a Supreme and Conscious Intelligence. They have proved over and over for any objective, intelligent reader what you say about the insufficiency of logic and well founded postulates to open their minds to the possibilities they deny. My motivation is to sharpen my wits. In the course of the interactions here I have been forced to evolve deeper, subtler, and more explicit levels of insight into the issues under consideration. It has been an intellectually stimulating experience as well as very informative concerning the nature of the atheist mindset.
Reply to this | Report thisBy straight_talk_11, July 15, 2007 at 1:23 pm #
(241 comments total)
To Jim H. and anyone else who wishes to view a few of my posts that contain the essence of all of them:
78054
75798
75796
79023
79418
Any intelligent, objective reader will find that no responses to my posts have intelligently critiqued their reasoning or challenged the postulates underlying them in a way that would demonstrate that they are conceptually incompatible with observed principles in physics, mathematics, or artificial intelligence.
Reply to this | Report thisBy straight_talk_11, July 15, 2007 at 1:00 pm #
(241 comments total)
You say: “I think there are---compelling reasons(?) to postulate the existence of God---"(?)
What? What? No more “certainty”? Am I finally penetrating that denseness? Maybe there’s hope?
Why not elucidate?
What are those “---compelling reasons---?
- Jim H.
I said they’re already here. Just go back and read my previous posts. There are plenty of them. They’ve already addressed everything you’ve said.
I’m not asking you to prove the unprovable. I’m just pointing out that we have two options, to postulate that a Supreme and Conscious Intelligence exists or does not exist. I have already supported my opinion that there are more compelling reasons to postulate the existence of such a God than there are not to do so. I used solid lines of reasoning that no one here has taken the time to INTELLIGENTLY criticize by taking them apart step by step and showing where they’re wrong.
So why do you ask me to elucidate in your response to a post that clearly stated that I didn’t wish to repeat previous posts AGAIN! I’ve already done that too many times just to make things easier, but it’s a lot of work.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Jim H., July 13, 2007 at 9:04 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Re:86700
Rev. nahida
Thanks for reading my posts, and your (free) critique. Don’t mess up your ‘Alb’ with sputtering spittle.
You say: “received---unfounded(?) accusations of irrationality, insanity and believing in fairy tale stories;---"(?)
I say: You must be a drug addict! No one in their right mind would lie so OUTRAGEOUSLY!
I say: “Accusations” of irrationality, insanity, and believing in fairy tale stories---"are extremely ACCURATE! when discussing someones ‘belief’, or ‘faith’ in something totally falsle, absolutely impossible to prove, a figment of a charlatan’s evil criminal mind, and the delusional symbol that induces people like you to be the asinine blowhard verbose bigot you are.
If you wish someone to believe in your ‘Godish’ fetish, all you need do is present some ‘proof’ that such a ‘thing’ ‘IS’ REAL!, and not a makebelieve, fairytales, device, used to lure innocents, and imbeciles ‘like you’ into a form of slavery to an irrational conception of life, and a world of mindless delusion that causes the type of bigoted agressive attacking misstatements, and a ‘pedantic’ attermpt to demean, belittle, and insult the intelligence of someone who is by far, light years, your mental superior!
YOU ARE TOTALLY CONFUSED! ‘YOU’ ‘IDIOTS’ ARE THE BELIEVERS!
We, The rational ones! who accuse ‘you’ criminal idiots of lying and chicancery, and warping innocent children’s minds with your schemes are the NON-BELIEVERS!
Sane, rational, people do not ask, nor expect others to PROVE the non -existance of “santa Clause’. the “Tooth Fairy” “Mickey Mouse” or other makebelieve, fairytales entities such as a “Creator-God” and “little Orphan Annie”!
Sane, rational people KNOW these are comic, or farcical conceptions, and do not, nor have they ever existed except in the minds of storybook writers! Or, in the case of the “Creator-God”, in the ‘heads’ of all you, the DELUDED ‘MINDLESS’!
Don’t demand others to prove you are a liar! The proof is in your absurd twisted assertions!
You talk about “logic”! Isn’t it logical to you that what does not exist does not need to be proven not to exist?
Your problem is that ‘you’ have accepted (without proof) something that neither you, nor anyone else, can prove ever existed, and, based on your acceptance of a virtual “pig-in-a-poke” you want others to believe what you have absolutely no valid reason for believing!
If you were the least bit HONEST, and serious, about truth, you would endeavor to find a valid reason for your surrender to such an overpowering addiction, that has caused your outlandish renunciation of sanity in favor of a benumbing, fawning idolatry that has deprived you of you innate reasoning!
I say: Why don’t you attempt to prove (or, disprove) the validity of your assertions?
WHY do you believe this great lie?
Where’s the evidence?
How did you first come to believe in this illusory, chimerical conception?
Who told you about such a ‘thing’ ?
What made you accept that person’s ‘word’ about ‘it’?
If after a very thorough research, you came to realize that what you have accepted as true, and believed in for