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You Can Arrest an Idea

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Posted on Dec 1, 2011
AP / Dan Steinberg

A Los Angeles Police Department officer stands guard on the eve of the city’s eviction of the Occupy L.A. protest.

By Robert Scheer

The bankers slept well. Their homes in Beverly Hills were not spotlighted by a noisy swarm of police helicopters, searchlights burning through the sanctity of the night, harassing the forlorn City Hall encampment of those who dared protest the banks’ seizure of our government. I live within sight of the iconic Los Angeles City Hall, and at first I thought it was being used once again as a movie location, given the massive police presence, as if an alien invasion was being thwarted.

Not eager to test the resilience of my new heart valve, I hesitated until the first crack of dawn to visit the place where former Labor Secretary Robert Reich and I had spoken weeks before at a teach-in on the origins of the economic crisis. I described the scene back then as a Jeffersonian moment, exactly the kind of peaceful assembly to redress grievances that the Founders of our nation enshrined in the Bill of Rights. But at 5 a.m. Wednesday there was only a graveyard of democratic hope. The protesters were gone, 200 arrested for exercising their constitutional rights, and only the television crews stayed to pick over the carcass of tents, books and posters, including one I pulled from the debris that read “99% you can’t arrest an idea.” Actually, you can, and the bankers have, as a result, been able to reoccupy Los Angeles’ City Hall and every other contested outpost of power throughout the nation.

The liberal Democratic mayor, a past president of the Southern California ACLU, was pleased with the efficiency of the “community policing” approach of his police department. “I said that here in L.A. we’d chart a different path, and we did,” Antonio Villaraigosa boasted. However, the result was the same as elsewhere; the bankers were protected from the scorn they so richly deserve and there will no longer be a visible monument to the pain that they have caused. To ensure a pristine, amoral town square, huge concrete-anchored fences were quickly installed to prevent further access to the public space surrounding City Hall.

Of course the traditional cardboard encampments of the homeless three blocks away, a sprawling and constant feature of life in downtown Los Angeles, remained undisturbed. Sanitation and safety issues are of no concern as long as such manifestations of deep societal inequality are so far from the corridors of power as to be, in effect, invisible.

Such profound contradictions in the application of state power seemed not at all to bother the first wave of government workers arriving at the various local, state and federal office buildings. I lined up with some of the early birds at the employee entrance to City Hall—the closed public entrance had a forbidding police presence—and told the guard that I was there with a literary offering for the mayor, whom I have long known.

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My gesture was quite pathetic. I brought him a copy of my book “The Great American Stickup,” which he had once claimed to have read and admired, to remind him that he should be arresting the real criminals rather than the victims of their financial swindles. For a confirmation of that point, I also intended to present the mayor with the transcript of U.S. District Judge Jed S. Rakoff’s ruling this week rejecting the sweetheart deal between the SEC and Citigroup. The settlement, one of dozens like it offered to the banks, would have let Citigroup off the hook for a pittance in fines in return for closing cases involving immense corruption on the part of the bankers, who would not have to admit guilt for their crimes.

And crimes they clearly are, far beyond the scope of pitching a tent in a public park. As Judge Rakoff stated, the Securities and Exchange Commission has charged Citigroup with “a substantial securities fraud” in the sale of a billion dollars’ worth of toxic securities that were designed to fail and which the bank had bet against. Rakoff, who has handled a number of these cases, complained that Citigroup, like the other major banks, is a recidivist. Citigroup had already paid fines for four similar scams. The judge observed that “although this would appear tantamount to an allegation of knowing and fraudulent intent, the SEC, for reasons of its own, chose to charge Citigroup only with negligence” despite the far more serious charges called for in securities law.

The failure of the SEC or any other government agency to hold the banks accountable provides the essential justification for citizen action of the sort the Occupy movement has offered. In his concluding summary, Rakoff stated: “Finally, in any case like this that touches on the transparency of financial markets whose gyrations have so depressed our economy and debilitated our lives, there is an overriding public interest in knowing the truth. In much of the world, propaganda reigns, and truth is confined to secretive, fearful whispers. Even in our nation, apologists for suppressing or obscuring the truth may always be found.”

Count the liberal mayor of Los Angeles, a man I have respected and voted for, as one of those apologists for suppressing truth in the name of civic order. As I meekly allowed myself to be ordered about by the police clearing the area so that the concrete barriers could be installed, I wondered whether I had not been reduced to the status of a fearful whisperer.

Click here to check out Robert Scheer’s book,
“The Great American Stickup: How Reagan Republicans and Clinton Democrats Enriched Wall Street While Mugging Main Street.”


Keep up with Robert Scheer’s latest columns, interviews, tour dates and more at www.truthdig.com/robert_scheer.



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DonSchneider's avatar

By DonSchneider, December 3, 2011 at 7:28 am Link to this comment

Wonderful !  As predicted , A,B,C,D,and E have posited their efluvium of sound
bytes ad absurdum ,devolving into the realm of abortion and murder name
calling, and back and forth he said, she said, quoting sputum ad absurdum….
The earlier posts of mine used humor and irony to jerk heads around so you
could see that this debate of OWS degenerated into nonsense for no reason
other than to provide avatars A,B,C,D,and E the opportunity for mental
masturbation , and sure enough the banter devolved into name calling and the
injection of sound bytes from another traditional right vrs left bone of
contention, to misdirect thoughts and action from the situation at hand. Scheer
did a fine job of pointing to the absurdity of jailing an idea, and the initial
responses could have been reminiscent of a debate. But what I was trying to get
the other responders to see is that there IS NO REASON for continued debate !
We have identified the plutocrats and oligarchs whose outlandishly inhuman
greedy behavior was cause for OWS’s ongoing activities on behalf of all of of
America’s “working poor” in the first place .  Now is the time for ACTION ! Not
more debate !  Now it is time to truly “Occupy Wall St.” , not a nearby park or
front of a govt. building , but the brain center of Wall St., the NY stock
Exchange.  By whatever means necessary, and nation wide , the occupation of
the office of the traders and bankers responsible for the economic meltdown ! 
Now do you see the damage that can be done by a few shills posting right wing
crap (sound bytes and referent links) on a site like ours ?  They succeed in
turning progressives inwards spewing enough crud to create internal argument
and gainsaying platitudes and sound bytes thus getting us chasing each others
tails ,even consuming each other with vile rhetoric , until progressives are split
amongst themselves arguing over what has ALREADY been debated. A few shills
are able to misdirect with “mackrels in the moonlight” , false right wing issues
aimed at creating a pheromonic response to hot button sound bytes. I was so
tired of their apparent success at mis-direction that I wrote a humorous and
somewhat ironic response to point out the fallacy of continuing a meaningless
debate with them . This meaningless debate eventually turns progressive
against progressive and the resultant exchanges become the mental
masturbation decried earlier. THERE IS NOTHING TO DEBATE HERE FRIENDS !
Ignore the right wing shills and get busy attacking the enemy we have already
successfully identified ! The plutocrats and oligarchs who own this mess !

Report this
OzarkMichael's avatar

By OzarkMichael, December 3, 2011 at 7:18 am Link to this comment

Outraged asks:

Firstly OM, when have anti abortion protesters EVER been forcefully removed (which is the real outrage).

Thank you for asking the question. Try to watch the following for 5 minutes and you will begin to see what happened during our direct action. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCIyacAk0xE

If you did watch it, you would see forceful removal of pro-life protesters, police using much more force than was needed in order to intentionally inflict pain, and unlike Occupy, there was a press black-out against us. None of this was reported in the Leftist MSM.

On one day especially, no camaras were allowed by the police, and there were no cellphones back then. The Leftist cops employed by our Leftist government really enjoyed their work against peaceful, non-violent protesters that day. The Leftist bystanders did not report the violence, they cheered it on.

Since that time, we cannot even get near an abortion clinic without being arrested immediately, since the Supreme Court decided we have no right to Occupy the sidewalk, or even the park across the street from an abortion mill. Basically, we are ‘allowed’ to protest in places where people going to the clinic cant see us.

Not a peep from the Leftists during the police violence except for hearty cheers as our arms were broken, noses spurted blood, wrists were broken. Crazed happy cheers from Leftists as peaceful protesters were intentionally tortured and injured.

Not a peep from Leftists during the Supreme Court proceedings, where our right to Occupy got squashed forever by the all powerful state.

Not a peep since, even though I confronted you hypocrites about this several times over the years. To this day, not a single Leftist has extended to me the same rights that they demand for themselves. Not one.

Not a single one.

Now you want me to respect your right to Occupy. You you want me to consider that any force used by police proves the Occupy cause is true and valiant. You want me to consider that the state and the media is against you. You want me to believe that all the money and power backs my cause against yours.

Really?

Report this
sallysense's avatar

By sallysense, December 3, 2011 at 5:37 am Link to this comment

hiya again heterochromatic…

you can make all the excuses you want on behalf of or benefitting the 1%...
and while you do it corporate greed just keeps bleeding our country dry…
they do this all the time in government and see how much gets done…
what’s your conscience tell your own self about the bottom line?...
you may enjoy swimming in superficial muck with the big shots…
one big dangerous comfort zone for those afraid of change…
overblown illusion goes nowhere but that’s all they know…
and don’t look for me to join in for more of the same…

Report this
EmileZ's avatar

By EmileZ, December 3, 2011 at 3:30 am Link to this comment

I think it is just fantastic that they installed “huge concrete anchored fences” around city hall.

About damn time!!!

We have all got to get together and shut out those lawbreakers!!!

Enough is enough!!!

Also, I would like to thank all the patriotic Truthdig commenters who selflessly sacrifice their time and effort in order to point out the irrational lawlessness and violence (perhaps latent, but we all know it is there) of these unreasonable utopian idealists who claim to be “just exercising their first ammendment rights”.

And I would also like to thank Truthdiggers like David J. Cyr who CONDEMN EVERYONE, no matter what they may write. What will it take indeed Mr. Cyr???

I’m bored.

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Outraged's avatar

By Outraged, December 3, 2011 at 1:34 am Link to this comment

Re: hetero

Your comment: “stop trying to say that the anti-
abortion maniacs don’t pay for their crimes….
they do…..”

I am not claiming they don’t pay for their crimes, I’m
claiming that they REALLY ARE MANIACS and they are a
part of the anti abortion group.

Report this
Outraged's avatar

By Outraged, December 3, 2011 at 1:31 am Link to this comment

Re: hetero

Your comment: “there has not been any extreme
violence from the Occupiers been there’s been
enough low-level stuff and there are plenty of guys
looking to ramp it up.”

Try not to distort too much hetero. There is every
reason in the world to bring up the violence
perpetrated by the anti abortion crowd (which OM
invoked not me). Suddenly, you claim it’s just a
small portion of the group. Who knows exactly, what
we do KNOW is they have been very violent.

In contrast, we know the Occupy crowd has been
peaceful time and again YET met with UNWARRANTED
VIOLENCE. Big difference, huge. Additionally, there’s
been all sort of bogus claims made against the Occupy
groups, mainly by the same folks who implied/incited
something needed to be done about Tiller on a cable
“news” station.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#40080107

Report this

By heterochromatic, December 3, 2011 at 1:20 am Link to this comment

Outraged—-yeah he was a murderer and he paid for it.


——-


stop trying to say that the anti-abortion maniacs don’t pay for their crimes….
they do…..


stop trying to make out that it an outrage to tell Occupy protesters to pull up
their tents and move….it’s not

and it’s not an outrage to arrest them if they refuse to obey the law.

those 700 people arrested on NYC ....how long did they stay in jail, Out?

how many of them were injured?


was there a single OWS/NYC protester that was injured more severely than…

PO Matthew Walters who needed 20 stitches after he was hit with a piece of
thrown glass, police said.

Report this

By heterochromatic, December 3, 2011 at 1:12 am Link to this comment

Outraged—-your claim that anti-abortion protesters don’t get arrested is
simply wrong.

that was your first point—————-


“Firstly OM, when have anti abortion protesters EVER
been forcefully removed (which is the real outrage).”

————

you need to give that one a long rest…..—-

———-


I absolutely agree with you that there are acts of murder and violence from the
anti-abortion maniacs that are part of the movement…...


but they are a very small part…...mostly it’s middle-aged women standing
outside and praying quietly.

there has not been any extreme violence from the Occupiers been there’s been
enough low-level stuff and there are plenty of guys looking to ramp it up.

———-


try to rebut OZ without distorting stuff too much…..maybe he’ll stop distorting
as well.

Report this
Outraged's avatar

By Outraged, December 3, 2011 at 1:04 am Link to this comment

Paul Hill was a MURDERER. Have you lost all
sensibility? I don’t believe in capital punishment, but
I’m willing to wager you do.

Either way, Paul Hill was a murderer.

Report this
Outraged's avatar

By Outraged, December 3, 2011 at 1:01 am Link to this comment

Re: hetero

NYC (a single city) arrest 700 in one day! And how many
since, this is not even counting all the DOCUMENTED
UNWARRANTED violence against the protesters, by
authorities, and the destruction of property, including
3000+ BOOKS!

Give it a rest hetero, there is no comparison between the VERY violent pro life group and the occupy protesters. Christ almighty… the bastards were BLOWING people away!

Report this

By heterochromatic, December 3, 2011 at 1:01 am Link to this comment

Outraged~~~~Did you see pepper spraying of these protesters, were they clubbed
with batons, dragged by their hair….....”


Paul Hill was executed…is that almost as bad as being dragged by the hair?

Report this
Outraged's avatar

By Outraged, December 3, 2011 at 12:47 am Link to this comment

Re: hetero

Your comment: “unfortunately, that’s not quite
true…...much of what Occupy protests is 100% legal”

unfortunately, that’s not quite true…....most of
what Occupy protests is illegal.

After the movement expanded, the protests have
protested what is now “legal” (I can give you that)
but even in this hetero, I don’t feel (nor do many)
that many of these now “legalities”  were gained
by LEGAL MEANS but by nefarious means. Pay offs, backroom deals, illegal
lobbying…....etc.

So “legal” is relative when we talk of Wall Street and the Banksters, and not in a good way.

Report this

By heterochromatic, December 3, 2011 at 12:40 am Link to this comment

Outraged``as well, your wrong about anti-abortion protesters not being
arrested for pulling Occupy Abortion Clinic bullshit comparable to Occupy
stunts…..

one example from 1990 in Atlanta````” Five Operation Rescue anti-abortion
protesters were arrested today after they entered an abortion clinic and chained
themselves together” `````

“Since July 1988, city police have arrested 1,320 demonstrators at Operation
Rescue sit-ins. Many of the protesters barricaded abortion clinics, blocking
patients and employees from entering or leaving.


got that Outraged ??? that’s 1,325 arrests in two years in a single city.

I could dig up another dozen where abortion protesters where arrested for
violating injunctions to keep their distance from clinics and not to impede
pedestrian traffic…....


~~~save your outrage and songs about how the nobody knows the trouble
you’ve seen ...

everybody’s dues to pay and civil disobedience isn’t protected activity.

Report this

By heterochromatic, December 3, 2011 at 12:27 am Link to this comment

Outraged——-Occupy protesters are protesting the RAMPANT
ILLEGALITIES involving the financial sector which
HAVE NOT YET BEEN ADDRESSED!—-

unfortunately, that’s not quite true…...much of what Occupy protests is 100% legal

Report this
Outraged's avatar

By Outraged, December 3, 2011 at 12:10 am Link to this comment

Examples of anti abortion protester violence.

“The National Abortion Federation, which supports
abortion rights, has documented more than 6,100 acts
of violence against abortion providers in the United
States and Canada since 1977. The group classifies as
“violent” not only the acts of murder, attempted
murder, bombing and arson, but also vandalism,
burglary and stalking, among others…....

......In July 1994, Paul Hill, a former Presbyterian
minister, shot and killed Dr. John Britton and a 74-
year-old clinic escort in Pensacola. In December of
that year, John Salvi III shot up two Boston-area
clinics, killing two receptionists and injuring five
other people.”

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/01/nation/na-abortion-violence1

Did you see pepper spraying of these protesters, were they clubbed with batons, dragged by their hair….....

Report this
Outraged's avatar

By Outraged, December 2, 2011 at 11:55 pm Link to this comment

Re: OM

Your comment: “I doubt the UN Special Rapporteur
would lift a finger if it was anti abortion
protesters being forcibly removed.”

Firstly OM, when have anti abortion protesters EVER
been forcefully removed (which is the real outrage).

Secondly, when anti abortion
protesters protest outside clinics they are
protesting something absolutely LEGAL. A entity
conducting LEGAL business with which they disagree.

Occupy protesters are protesting the RAMPANT
ILLEGALITIES involving the financial sector which
HAVE NOT YET BEEN ADDRESSED!

Huge difference, OM. Again OM, these two things are the opposite of each other.

Report this

By heterochromatic, December 2, 2011 at 11:20 pm Link to this comment

~~~~~~Occupy L.A. and a coalition including Occupy Long Beach, Occupy Santa
Ana and Occupy Riverside announced that they planned a news conference
Monday at 5:15 p.m. on the south steps of Los Angeles City Hall.~~~~~

stay tuned till then, Oz.

Report this
OzarkMichael's avatar

By OzarkMichael, December 2, 2011 at 11:06 pm Link to this comment

You can arrest an idea, but the UN Special Rapporteur on Free Speech will ask the US President to post bail for the idea, as long as its a Leftist one.

I doubt the UN Special Rapporteur would lift a finger if it was anti abortion protesters being forcibly removed. That idea isnt popular at the UN.

Meanwhile, the Occupiers plan do hit the West coast ports on December 12:
http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2011/11/occupy_ports_la_goldman_sachs.php

I hope this report makes up for the odd one i brought forward earlier

Report this
Napolean DoneHisPart's avatar

By Napolean DoneHisPart, December 2, 2011 at 7:17 pm Link to this comment

Karen you said:

“The wealthy are eating their own. And once you run out of resources it doesn’t matter how much fiat money you have, there will be nothing to buy.”

Correct.

But it isn’t about particularly ‘owning’ the fiat, but the process of capitalization and its volume which we all have to file through our hands.

Don’t think for a second the owners of that printing machine and managers of policy don’t already own vast assets ( tons of gold, huge businesses, etc. ).

A quick recap of money’s journey from being a tangible asset coined in gold or silver…. to a completely fiat / paper currency ( debt instrument ) is interesting to consider.

For more info, please check out this labor of love of mine:

http://SmartPeopleSmartMoney.com

And if you find anything new or interesting there… please solicit the adverts in return for my efforts.  Thank you kindly.

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OzarkMichael's avatar

By OzarkMichael, December 2, 2011 at 7:00 pm Link to this comment

oops, lemmie find a better link then…

hetero, you are my best critic.

Report this

By heterochromatic, December 2, 2011 at 6:45 pm Link to this comment

Oz, how are you going to use a press report from
Canada quoting a French new agency discussing actions
that haven’t happened and are no more than suggested
for the future as proof that maybe “there’s no line
beyond which the Occupiers will not escalate”?

If PRESS-TV reports that Occupy affiliates are
planning to set off nuclear weapons in public schools
in Iowa and Arkansas are you going to demand
explanation for that as well?

When the Tea Party planned to burn Kenyans on the
White House lawn and roast alive the children of
Central American immigrants as a show of solidarity
with Gov Brewer, want to you say about it?

Report this
OzarkMichael's avatar

By OzarkMichael, December 2, 2011 at 6:23 pm Link to this comment

Now that they have made such a mess in so many cities and have finally wore out their welcome, it looks like its time for Occupy Wall Street to escalate:

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Occupy+movement+aims+blockade+major+ports/5794318/story.html

I wonder if any Occupy supporter will explain if there is a line beyond which the Occupiers will not escalate. In other words, if the police remove the Occupiers from the ports, will that justify even further escalation, and so on?

Report this

By heterochromatic, December 2, 2011 at 5:20 pm Link to this comment

sally——a government of the people…
by the people…
and for the people…
concerns itself with the people first!...~~~~~
     

everyone is people….even mayors and bankers.

and not wanting them camped on the lawn doesn’t indicate a lack of concern
for the welfare of the people.

the tents are a tactic not a real and productive benefit….it served a useful
purpose for a while, but was now generating unhelpful publicity. it was time for
different tactics.

Report this

By heterochromatic, December 2, 2011 at 5:10 pm Link to this comment

clear lacquer or color?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-
svd79FWnvOU/Tc8uJYB99pI/AAAAAAAACFI/h3lWRoioD6U/s1600/hello+kitty+7.jp
g

Report this
Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, December 2, 2011 at 4:44 pm Link to this comment

I may after a few tequilas and I get my toe nail done, but not necessarily in that order, some times I learn from my experiences!

Report this

By heterochromatic, December 2, 2011 at 4:38 pm Link to this comment

please do.

Report this

By ardee, December 2, 2011 at 4:24 pm Link to this comment

Leefeller, December 2 at 12:08 pm

Banter on dude! Very funny stuff indeed.

As to the multicolored one:

and there is no conflict of interest for mayor in deciding that the Occupy people
should be asked to move,  or be offered inducement to move, or be made to
move after requests and offers were refused.

Someone, anyone, please explain it to him….

Report this

By Mo, December 2, 2011 at 3:55 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The Occupiers won.  City Hall and the mayor have now fenced and walled themselves in.  Rather pathetic.  There are now questions about why so many were arrested and why some arrests were people who left the scene only to be arrested blocks away - false arrest.  So there should be plenty of law suits to be rid of the City Attorney and limit Charlie Beck to one term as chief; who by the way is nothing more than old-school LAPD (think Daryl Gates), just not as loud about it.  Gates liked the in-your-face style.  Beck likes to play the victim role.

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sallysense's avatar

By sallysense, December 2, 2011 at 2:40 pm Link to this comment

hiya heterochromatic…

a government of the people…
by the people…
and for the people…
concerns itself with the people first!...
       
we can pull from a grab bag a world full of answers…
for those sidetracking matters layered on each bottom line…
whether purposeful or brainwashed or not knowing any better…
they tend to evade that prime issue or frame a trade or re-define!...

it keeps happening these days in a land where corporate advancement…
uses think-tank manufacturing so folks won’t think for themselves…
leading people into patsy molds holding lesser self-awareness…
it feeds ulterior motives when what is needed most is help!...

a government of the people…
by the people…
and for the people…
concerns itself with the people first!...

Report this

By Karon Reiter, December 2, 2011 at 2:16 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“You see folks, when you own the rights, privilege and monopoly of the creation of the medium of exchange ( money ) which everyone derives their income and livelihood from, you own everything.”

That might have been true before and might still work today but only for awhile seeing as those who control and make money out of thin air have created a situation where money will no longer be worth the paper its printed on. The wealthy are eating their own. And once you run out of resources it doesn’t matter how much fiat money you have, there will be nothing to buy.

Report this

By heterochromatic, December 2, 2011 at 2:03 pm Link to this comment

sally~~~~is it really true that a business council would have bankers and people
with ties to people with a zest for capitalism amongst its members?

and why are we surprised to learn that the mayor of one of the country’s largest
cities is head of an organization of mayors?

what’s the significance of this news?

would we expect that the business council was rife with Communist party
sympathizers or that the mayor shunned the company of other mayors.


there is no conflict of interest for the business council in opposing people who
are opposing the business council…..


and there is no conflict of interest for mayor in deciding that the Occupy people
should be asked to move,  or be offered inducement to move, or be made to
move after requests and offers were refused.


why should not protesters be cleared from a ill-tended campsite that they made
of a park?

Report this
sallysense's avatar

By sallysense, December 2, 2011 at 1:34 pm Link to this comment

this boss of los angeles currently serves as a president…
of the united states conference of mayors…
an organization quite fond of its fine corporate tie-ins…
gives an “occupied” city’s government a call or questionnaire…

its business council consists of greedy wall street associates…
from bank of america… to morgan chase… and g.e…
more than one hundred companies pay thousands due annually…
leaving conflicts of interest evicting protest assemblies!...

~~~

http://occupywallst.org

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, December 2, 2011 at 1:08 pm Link to this comment

Okay, I may have pinned it down Hetro, your posts appear as texts, thus I must look at them as short telegrams written by someone who writes with a limp!

DonSchneide

Attempted humor such as yours, should never be attempted,... actually I am an advocate of free speech, but in your case I see need of an alternative!

Report this

By heterochromatic, December 2, 2011 at 12:49 pm Link to this comment

goals…..and .......tactics

are not the same.


I’m going to criticize unwise and unhelpful actions, Lee, while supporting the idea
that ideas and goals of shaking loose from the excessive economic and political
disparities.

I’m not a real big “my OWS right or wrong” type.

Report this
DonSchneider's avatar

By DonSchneider, December 2, 2011 at 12:49 pm Link to this comment

Dear friend Lafayette , the spewing back and forth ad absurdum, of someone
else’s thought or idea out of context, (sound bite trading) is NOT debate , but
time wasting gainsaying ! Sorry my friend, but legitimate debate would include
an exchange of ideas which the participants understand and own ! I encourage
debate and take part whenever the opportunity exists. In order to participate in
such a debate requires the assumption that both parties so engaged know the
meaning of the activity in which they engage ! And failure to do so is truly
worshipping the “Mackrel in the moonlight” . I thought enough of some of your
earlier posts to think you certainly capable of such an understanding and thus
exchange. Apparently you missed entirely the tongue in cheek undertone of my
post and chose to cast platitudes back in response to a good guffaw. Now I will
toss it back in your court with this one. Truly you have misinterpreted the
content of my post but “I shall fight to the death to preserve your right to
misunderstand”
Peace unto you and yours monsieur !

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, December 2, 2011 at 12:15 pm Link to this comment

‘maybe it was more that it added to the squalor instead of merely highlighting it.’ Hetro invoking comments of support from your posts, would support the argument in which my Republican comments are supportive instead of what they are?

What do they call it when one talks out of both sides of his mouth, not Mitt Romney…. no a word sounding something like agaprop, (cannot recall the word)  sort of friendly deception if not clear deceptions.

When someone says I support you then goes on to diss your ideas, several posters here seen to be consistent in this especially when about Occupy, they appear as crocodile tears of insincerity, this is in question, well in my teary eyes anyway!

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By heterochromatic, December 2, 2011 at 11:22 am Link to this comment

you miss a fair bit, Lee…..I think the tactics are not suitable and must change and
that the message is good and needs to be sharpened.

OWS in NYC has my support and my best wishes.

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By Leefeller, December 2, 2011 at 11:14 am Link to this comment

hetero. Obviously Occupy has gotten you talking about it, even in your constant dissing of it.

Disenfranchisement as a topic never really has been discussed before, especially by so many people and even the bought and sold media and politicians have been forced to acknowledge Occupy, seemingly most of the media and politicians taint and distort occupy s message any way they can, which appears to be your M.O. also, unless I missed something?

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By heterochromatic, December 2, 2011 at 10:53 am Link to this comment

lasmog~~~~The great crime of OWS was that it made poverty visible~~~~

maybe it was more that it added to the squalor instead of merely highlighting it.

lot of people know about unemployment and poverty and highlighting it isn’t
enough….what is the Occupy movement going to DO to help fix the problems?

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By Leefeller, December 2, 2011 at 10:29 am Link to this comment

Most people appear to be frustrated, our nation seems to be spiraling into the great black hole of inequality as many of us find our lives mired in what is unfairness and injustice sponsored by the few. Many of us agree on promotions by the few, the 1 percent have been manipulating and cajoling things in their favor, this is the disenfranchisement I am grateful of the message Occupy has brought to the forefront.

Some of the Powers that be are fighting the message tooth and nail. Fear and divisive techniques are always used with consistency only equalized by the elites ability to wrap themselves in greed! 

Not all of everyone is a stereotype, even some of the 1 percent have impassioned empathy for the 99 percent, these individuals who feel the pain of the 99 percent should be known and appreciated as allies and not lumped in the absolutism’s of bigoted stereotypes.

My point, united we stand or divided we shall fail! Now who is we?

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By lasmog, December 2, 2011 at 10:14 am Link to this comment

The great crime of OWS was that it made poverty visible. Scheer is right of course, the prigs of LA didn’t mind homeless squalor 3 blocks from city hall on skid row.  But when the protestors actually embraced the homeless as natural allies and homeless squalor became visible around city hall, this was too much for the delicate sensibilities of mainstream America. Now that the police have disposed of the OWS encampment we can go back to only noticing the homeless when we magnanimously give them a free turkey dinner on Thanksgiving.

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By Lafayette, December 2, 2011 at 9:50 am Link to this comment

DS: Soon the sound byte orgy is joined and likewise abandoned time and again by newcomers claiming validity of their sound byte and conspiratorial realities ad absurdum ....ho hum

Nonetheless, it is still called debate.

Evelyn Beatrice Hall (paraphrasing Voltaire): I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

To each their own version of the truth, or their opinion. But in some places of this world, that expression of truth can get you murdered.

We should the thankful of the opportunity of free-speech, but let it not descend into defamation and character assassination (as is so often the case in public forums).

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, December 2, 2011 at 9:38 am Link to this comment

You’re right Lee, I apologize for taking things off topic.  I’m sure I’ve made my point already: don’t trust anyone.

As for the revolution at-hand here and around the world, it is about time.

In L.A., as in any other city, it is a struggle between those who ‘know’ what the real issue is ( privately owned monopoly of the money supply ) and not so much the execs who manipulate the system daily.

The obfuscation may be ( out of ignorance of how economy works now or just following a new herd mentality ) the crux in this situation as is in most anything political. 

I hope the smokescreen of trying to bring down execs and high powered brokers doesn’t ignore the institution of the Fed Reserve ( central bank, which is a communist ideal, not capitalist when reading by definition ).

If the focus is left on certain individuals and the crimes of the police state and NOT on the source and core issue ( Fed and it’s hidden owners ), well…. it is just another circus show.

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By SharonMI, December 2, 2011 at 9:36 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“I wondered whether I had not been reduced to the status of a fearful whisperer.”

The pen is mightier than the sword. Everyone should do what they consider necessary for their own “health and safety.” I am scared to get beaten, sprayed, arrested, but I will make warm items to help my local occupiers get through the winter. There are many ways to support and you are doing your part, Mr. Scheer.

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By Leefeller, December 2, 2011 at 9:24 am Link to this comment

If one is going to arrest something, it should be the constant nagging by some posters here who seldom if ever offer anything of substance on the topic.  Scheers article has some validity to it and should be discussed on its merits. 

I find the usual banter a total waste of time, unless of course it is I doing the banter!

Scheer seems damned no matter what because his criticizing crickets chirp endlessly about how he supports the establishment and is not criticizing it enough, though I find Sheers comments otherwise and he seems sincere in his compassion towards his fellows.  More than I can say for the cherpers!

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By DonSchneider, December 2, 2011 at 6:44 am Link to this comment

Here is how it goes on these pages : Post from A : Sound byte, sound byte,
sound byte ! Elicits respondent B’s unleashing of Sound byte , sound byte,
sound byte, sound byte, which releases the requisite pheromone demanding
the response of poster C , who in turn unleashes Sound byte, sound byte,
sound byte, sound byte.sound byte which in C’s mind nullifies the sound bytes
of A and B . However, before the euphoria of victorious sound byte release is
allowed to confuse the picture, of course responder D appears with the
revelation of hidden conspiracy who’s reality is laid out to enlighten A,B,C, and
the rest of the alphabet of potential avatars, with irrefutable sound bytes
followed by sound byte after sound byte of a later vintage ! D even throws in
directions to a few superfluous web sites to bolster the newness and truthiness
of the conspiracy. However ,D is not allowed to bask in the shine of the
“mackrel in the moonlight”  just released !  A , B, and C are now joined by
responder E , who posits sound byte after sound byte in retort and borrowing
sound bytes from A,B,&C, thoroughly claims to have negated D’s proposed
conspiracy.  Soon the sound byte orgy is joined and likewise abandoned time
and again by newcomers claiming validity of their sound byte and conspiratorial
realities ad absurdum ....ho hum ...Mo tea sir ?

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By IMax, December 2, 2011 at 6:37 am Link to this comment

Those of us who see this movement as a breath of life in a far too moribund nation, as an educational tool and as a rallying point should understand that it may have its highs and its lows but the potential for real progress stemming from it is vast.” - ardee, December 1

-

Ardee may be on to something here. This sounds precisely like nearly every Tea Movement advocate I’ve listened to.

Occupy the Congress!

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By RayLan, December 2, 2011 at 4:10 am Link to this comment

I haven’t been to ivy league, but in all the other colleges I’ve been to, the arts and humanities have steadily declined - especially philosophy - my favorite study - This is only to be expected in the endoctrination mills that are demurely called places of higher learning - because philosophy teaches you how to think - and that is what the war is about - because thought is the engine of freedom - and consequently slavery.
God Bless anti-intellectual America

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By ardee, December 2, 2011 at 3:13 am Link to this comment

kulu, December 2 at 1:38 am

I think that if there’s going to be any chance of getting her elected a lot of work has to be done to raise her profile. News broadcasts like those I mentioned are possible starting points and the Occupy Movement is a good platform on which to build her campaign.

A couple of notes; Voting for the Green candidate for President is a protest vote, not that I diminish such, in fact I will more than likely vote for Stein.

Voting for Green candidates on the local and state level, on the other hand, is a building block that will, eventually, lead to the wresting of control of our government from the creeping fascism that has overwhelmed it.

Lastly, I have seen no indication from the Occupy movement that they will endorse any candidate at any level, at least in this coming contest. Given their insistence that there are no leaders , or rather that all lead, I would expect no endorsements from them.

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By kulu, December 2, 2011 at 2:38 am Link to this comment

CJ Cyr,

Perhaps you should remind people who Jill Stein is. She’s not the chefs wife obviously. I googled her and after first latching on to a story about the ex wife and business partner of some celebrity restauranteur I eventually got to understand that you were referring to the presidential candidate for the Greens-Rainbow Party.

I would most definitely would vote for her if I were able but I’m not American. I do, though, watch a lot of alternative news from America like Democracy Now, The Alyona Show and other RT broadcasts available on the web but do not recall her from any of those.

I think that if there’s going to be any chance of getting her elected a lot of work has to be done to raise her profile. News broadcasts like those I mentioned are possible starting points and the Occupy Movement is a good platform on which to build her campaign.

In the end the asymmetric battle waged by the Movement, has at the same time to be extended to grabbing control of the country by voting for new untainted progressive candidates.

It’s not an either or thing.

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By kulu, December 2, 2011 at 1:58 am Link to this comment

hetero,

What will the disruptions lead to, you ask? Well, disruption of course. But seriously those in control have steadfastly ignored every effort at bringing about changes to create a fairer, more sustainable America and world. Petitions, writing to members of Congress, lobbying, rallies haven’t worked and nor so far has the Occupy Movement except at the periphery.

The corporate media also do their utmost to ignore the movement and if they can’t any longer, discredit it (as you are trying to do) and above all hope it goes away or reverts back to the occasional single issue demonstration and the like.

Periodic, planned disruptions like the general strike in Oakland are one way to hurt the other side, keep momentum and hope alive and attract the attention of the reluctant media and the Washington corruptees. Other ways are less people intensive and perhaps more imaginative like interrupting speeches by those in control, not voting for them ever again, light reflections on buildings like at OWS and so on.

Mass disruptions like the Oakland strike will be sure to cause some level of inconvenience or collateral damage to “innocent ” citizens and that is regrettable but for their own ultimate good. If anyone is seriously economically hurt by these strikes then perhaps the Movement could make an offer to, in some way, help them out…just a thought.

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By frankdouglas, December 2, 2011 at 1:24 am Link to this comment

If OWS doesn’t give up this ludicrous, obstinate
obsession with holding a particular piece of land and
begin the transition to an organized group working
toward ballot measures in the next election cycle,
they will be an artifact the effects no significant
change.

Look at Egypt.  The FJP trounced the other parties
because they were extremely organized and had an army
in place with a plan to sweep the elections at the
drop of a dime.  You can’t arrest an idea, but you
can stall it into oblivion.  OWS needs to develop
fast.  The time for them to gestate and sing
demonstration songs in a drum circle is over.  If
they want to change Wallstreet, they’re not going to
do it protesting.  It needs to happen with legislation.

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By heterochromatic, December 1, 2011 at 11:56 pm Link to this comment

Nappies, that was the broadest satire that I’ve ever written and if you’re too dense
to realize it, you really do need to go season yourself before talking with the
grown-ups.

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, December 1, 2011 at 11:45 pm Link to this comment

Hetero, your not hetero nor worth responding to anymore… you’re a lackey lacking logical or linguistic latitudes.

Go troll elsewhere if you can’t respond or debate something of value. 

How much do your handlers pay you to bring your outlandish ideas on here?  I found your vomit about Mormons eating babies and such ridiculous ( not denying that men are evil and use religion as a cover, but a blanket statement like that is just plain… in your vernacular: STUPID ).

Have you found out who really calls the Goyim, Goyim?  Surely not Mormons, you moron. 

You shouldn’t have revealed your lackeyness with that ridiculous response on the other thread.. for you showed your true colors.

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By heterochromatic, December 1, 2011 at 11:38 pm Link to this comment

Nappies~~~~  you’re not doing too well.  you haven’t much feel for truth or logic
yet.

keep working and good luck, goy.

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, December 1, 2011 at 11:14 pm Link to this comment

Well, it has been two days.

Does anyone here who believes in their noble Scheer have anything to say regarding my accusations of him towing the line and being an obvious tool / shill / lackey?  Does he or does he not also obfuscate the smoking guns of 9/11 ( Tower 7, no Pentagon plane debris to name two ) by not mentioning them at all ( omission )?

Anyone?

Bueller?

Or is your silence your acquiescence?

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By heterochromatic, December 1, 2011 at 11:09 pm Link to this comment

kulu,

protests aren’t an end in themselves.

we do understand that there was massive manipulation by investment bankers
and trading houses.

really, whole lots of people have that in mind….....

some of us remember that the Reagan admin set the stage for the last round of
it   and that laws were enacted to prevent more.

those laws were pealed back during the Bush admin ...and that made it easy for
this last round of unscrupulousness ...and also made it hard to do anything
much about it….except to try to limit the massive damage and again change
back the laws.


setting up tents in LA can call attention to things, but permanent tent cities
aimed at disrupting things only very marginally related isn’t gonna do much.

it’s time to find more ways to work at it. protesting and occupying are tactics,
and they’re not solutions.

IN NYC, OWS had to get out of Zuccotti Park anyway because it’s simply
unhealthy to try to winter outdoors.

No reason that if people are committed to a cause rather than to a spectacle
that the protests can’t use communication methods to assemble, do something,
and then disperse and regroup.

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By kulu, December 1, 2011 at 10:38 pm Link to this comment

herochromatic,

You ask, “how can they be accommodated by the city of LA when they don’t protest the policies of the city, but the actions of the nation?”

The city should be part of the protest too as it has also been a victim of the banker fraud.

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By heterochromatic, December 1, 2011 at 10:28 pm Link to this comment

Kulu~~~~ and what will the disruptions lead to? what will they produce ?

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By kulu, December 1, 2011 at 10:24 pm Link to this comment

It’s asymmetric warfare, only this times it must involve mass disruptions rather than suicide bombers and it needs to go beyond the Middle East and the Muslim world at large where American power tries to impose itself.

It needs to reach to every corner of the world where American military, political and financial dominance is destroying peoples lives and their freedoms.

Of course it will involve risk as the people occupying Tahrir Square are all to well aware.

The Occupy movement has given hope to billions around the world and the destruction of the camps should and will not be the end of it.

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By greg_2, December 1, 2011 at 10:04 pm Link to this comment

“A meme is an idea that behaves like a virus—that moves through a population, taking hold in each person it infects.”—Malcolm Gladwell

The “Occupy”/“99%” idea has evolved beyond a meme. Never before has an idea spread so rapidly throughout the entire literate world in just a few months—from a few people, to millions, spread on an infrastructure of wires, satellites, microwaves, run by computers, this idea is now everywhere. This idea is now a “supermeme.”

The wired (and wireless) world was ready for this. Could one say even, made for this? Have the wires and computers and social networks evolved into something greater than the sum of its parts? Are the wires becoming intelligent? Some sort of artificial intelligence that has enabled the moaning Earth to whisper to a few: “help me.”

Millions of people who have never had a “say” in this world, now do.

“We are the 99%” spread to protesters in every country on Earth in a matter of weeks. And now, after a mere three months, these words no longer need to be explained when written or talked about in the Media—these words have gone beyond the vernacular and have now become self-evident—world-wide.

Many Occupy encampments are now gone, and many still remain. Protesters the world over, though, will never forget the idea of the 99%. Non-protesters and anti-protesters too will never forget. It is too late for that.

In the words of Thomas Jefferson:

“That ideas should freely spread from one to another over the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have been peculiarly and benevolently designed by nature, when she made them, like fire, expansible over all space, without lessening their density at any point, and like the air in which we breathe, move, and have our physical being, incapable of confinement or exclusive appropriation.”

Now is the time of the 99%.

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By greg_2, December 1, 2011 at 10:02 pm Link to this comment

We also need to dissolve the “neither admit nor deny” allowance that banks too often get away with when fined by the SEC.

“You robbed that women’s purse, young man! But for a $50.00 fine we’ll allow you to say that you ‘neither admit nor deny’ the robbery. Next case!”

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By vanseras, December 1, 2011 at 8:51 pm Link to this comment

Here in the States it’s the Federal Reserve Corporation. Its power and authority to expand or contract the amount of currency in circulation controls our economy.

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By heterochromatic, December 1, 2011 at 8:19 pm Link to this comment

JimBob~~~ how can they be accommodated by the city of LA when they don’t
protest the policies of the city, but the actions of the nation?

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By TrishaJ, December 1, 2011 at 6:46 pm Link to this comment

Please stop writing about the Occupy Movement as though it is over. It is not and we must continue to support it and keep it front and center in the news.

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By Michael Cavlan RN, December 1, 2011 at 5:33 pm Link to this comment

The same thing has happened in Minnesota.

The Minneapolis occupation has been denied tents. In Minnesota in the winter time. Meanwhile Oakland and LA were allowed them. It was the ever so liberal Mayor RT Rybak and his “progressive” cohorts on the City Council and Count Boards, all Democratic except for the lone Green Party council member, who supports Mayor Rybak that has allowed this to go on.

While making pretty speeches about how they support Occupy.

Sadly, for them they have been exposed.

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By laurence tribe, December 1, 2011 at 5:23 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

After reading most if not all the comments, I’m responding to NapoleanDHP who in my estimation most succinctly nailed the problem: bankers. Not just regular bankers but the megaBankers who can and do control the economies of the major nations. Here in the States it’s the Federal Reserve Corporation. Its power and authority to expand or contract the amount of currency in circulation controls our economy. The income tax we pay doesn’t pay the interest on the national debt owed primarily to the FED. The Fed along with other megaBanks charge the people for supplying national currecies. Their interest is to create a single worldwide currency charging all the various entities for accepting economic control and political influence. It is the rich and influential who support socialism, which essentially is class warfare. The CFR, Bilderbergers, and Trilateralist members are monied socialists working to preserve their wealth and status in the one world order. Welcome to Amerika.

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By JimBob, December 1, 2011 at 5:07 pm Link to this comment

I’m ashamed that my city, LA, couldn’t find a way to
accommodate the Occupy movement.

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By ElkoJohn, December 1, 2011 at 3:44 pm Link to this comment

welcome to:
Brave New World
1984
‘Merika, the police state

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By heterochromatic, December 1, 2011 at 3:21 pm Link to this comment

dr wu ~~~~~Is now the time to ask NATO to regime change the tyranny of the rich
that runs rampant in the USA or can the occupy movement do it peacefully?~~~~~

I can hear you doctor, but I’m afraid that NATO isn’t going to.

the protesters will have to keep at it, maybe work at finding better tactics to enlist
more folks .

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By Oceanna, December 1, 2011 at 1:51 pm Link to this comment

I doubt if fearful whispers are ignored, even though the early quashing of OWS was
meant to reduce the voices and visibility to exactly that. 

Perhaps Delusions of Absolute Power find whisperings too threatening to ignore,
or anything for that matter with intimations that the handful cannot subjugate the
millions or the billions.  You just can’t change the fundamentals of reality and
nature.  Nor can you alter the collective human spirit and instinct for both survival
and striving for the better. 

Any how, the world watches and they’re not lemmings who refuse to be cognizant
of the precipice, i.e., the non-sustainability of the present European and US
course.

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By SoCalFreddie, December 1, 2011 at 1:31 pm Link to this comment

I have been a reader of Robert Scheer’s columns for years and was somewhat surprised by the ending of his column.  There is little chance that he will be reduced to a fearful whisperer.  We have been blessed having such a bold bearer of the torch and the time has come for more people to do some of the lifting.  The 99% are too big to fail and it will take much more than the dismantling of camps to muffle the resounding cry for economic justice and an end to a corrupt and nonresponsive government beholden only to the 1%.

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By berniem, December 1, 2011 at 12:52 pm Link to this comment

Remember, the policeman is your friend!

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, December 1, 2011 at 11:47 am Link to this comment

NABNYC, you meant what this guy said a generation ago?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcx9BJRadfw

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By dr wu, December 1, 2011 at 11:44 am Link to this comment

Kudos to Scheer—as usual, right on the money—the banksters money, which they haul away every night while protestors scream and yell and get tossed out in the middle of the night.


Is now the time to ask NATO to regime change the tyranny of the rich that runs rampant in the USA or can the occupy movement do it peacefully?

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By NABNYC, December 1, 2011 at 11:31 am Link to this comment

The goal of OWS must be to Resist, to disrupt, to make it impossible for the system to continue to operate.  All of it.  Business, government, disrupt, shut it down.  In that respect, the arrests, the removal is all a good thing.  If the powers that be had simply ignored these bands of protesters, they likely would have simply self-imploded and drifted away.  By acting more aggressively, presumably at the request of the nervous upper class, the police state empowers the resistance and helps them by removing them from what could become a meaningless “grab and hold” piece of sidewalk. 

Now OWS must scatter.  Go home, sleep, bathe, eat, think, organizer, plan the next action.  They should take place all over the country and be aimed at disrupting, resisting the functioning of our devastating nation.  Resist.  Throw a wrench in the works.  Be an irritant, an annoyance, an omnipresent force, one that the police state cannot stop because they don’t know exactly who it is, where it is, or when it will appear next.  I think the state, all of them, have done OWS a favor.  Now OWS needs to figure out the next move.

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By Outraged, December 1, 2011 at 11:28 am Link to this comment

To add insult to injury Villaraigosa has released a
statement claiming:

“The activists’ fundamental rights were
respected.”

http://laist.com/2011/12/01/villaraigosa_occupy_la_raid_statement.php


Does Villaraigosa KNOW what FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS
ARE….????  One wonders. Of course while he was
protecting these “fundamental rights” 200 were
arrested….. ahem.

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, December 1, 2011 at 11:16 am Link to this comment

Regarding why banksters are not and will not be held accountable and taken to trial ( other than media witch hunt trials like Madoff and the exec in Georgia ) is simple.

Has anyone heard the reference “The Temple” many on Capital Hill make?

Only maybe 2% of the population understand what money is and how the money system works…

Maybe this quote will give a bit of insight:

“Give me the right to issue and control a nation’s money and I care not who governs the country.”

—Amschel Mayer Rothschild, b. A.D. 1773,

You see folks, when you own the rights, privilege and monopoly of the creation of the medium of exchange ( money ) which everyone derives their income and livelihood from, you own everything.

Every other argument is a waste of time when you don’t press issues onto the very people and mechanisms of economic slavery… the slavery all are under and subject to.

To find out more about the hidden reality, visit here:

http://www.smartpeoplesmartmoney.com/Keep_Your_Money_at_Home_.html

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By Outraged, December 1, 2011 at 11:05 am Link to this comment

When speaking of the bankster crimes Mr. Scheer
writes: ” far beyond the scope of pitching a tent
in a public park.”

This is the crux of it, because even if you believe
the occupiers shouldn’t be allowed to be there (as
some people do) then ON WHAT BASIS do they not demand
the prosecution of the banksters?

Why is O’Reilly and his ilk not demanding that these
crimes be addressed….. and as Scheer points out,
this includes Bloomberg, Villaraigosa and all the
other community leaders who feel this heartfelt and
supposed reasonable need to bring law
and order to their communities (or so they say).

There are only two boxes they fit into, that of no
spine or one of collusion.

It’s repulsively ironic to think that someone is
PROUD they didn’t beat up on PEACEFUL PROTESTERS
demanding that their leaders ADDRESS CRIMINAL ACTIVITY.

It appears ALL these mayors (strangely enough) flunked that chapter on pie charts, bar graphs and venn diagrams.

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By David J. Cyr, December 1, 2011 at 10:36 am Link to this comment

Re: “We might go down, but it’s going to take more than MittNewt and money to do it.”
__________________

All it takes to murder any peace, justice, or environmental movement is for liberals to GOTV for the corporate party’s deeply depraved Democrats.

Jill Stein for President:

http://www.jillstein.org

Voter Consent Wastes Dissent:

http://chenangogreens.org/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=498&Itemid=1

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By moonraven, December 1, 2011 at 10:35 am Link to this comment

INTIMATIONS OF THE NEXT WORLD

22.

“In the henhouse he will leave only to die, the cock
crows hymns to liberty because he has been given two perches.”
Fernando Pessoa, THE BOOK OF DISQUIET

Hillary Clinton
clumps around Myanmar in
a turquoise pantsuit,
but in the museum of
marionettes in Lisbon

the most popular
Burmese puppets are either
the generals or
the alchemists. Portugese
political puppets smile,

blush and confess the
risks of more austerity,
while 2 million state
employees in the UK
walk off their jobs protesting

the gleam in the eye
of their government
officials, knives poised
above the gordian knot
of their pensions, their lifeline,

while here in Lisbon
the general strike fizzled
and fell on its face,
and Los Angeles police
chase off the folks camped out in

front of city hall,
while a team of Mexican lawyers
denounce Calderon
at the world criminal court.
Crimes against humanity

are are all the rage now;
as the ex-president of
the Ivory Coast
is brought to The Hague, many
others still wait in the wings,

and the most brilliant
puppet in Lisbon is a
woman in a chair
called A Piece of Soul Goes Out
of the Body through a Scar.

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By DornDiego, December 1, 2011 at 10:21 am Link to this comment

I have only the greatest, deepest respect for Robert Scheer, now
more than ever.  Anonymous trolls?  They’re bacteria, and we’ve
all—moderates, conservatives and progressives—developed
immunities; we read their shit for sport.  But Scheer, I read him
(and E.J. Dionne and Hedges and Gene Robinson) to keep myself
on a sane course amidst this extended moment of the totalitarian
cloud.  And I’m feeling fine, trolls, because I can feel every day
more real people are joining what has become a movement.  We
might go down, but it’s going to take more than MittNewt and
money to do it.

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By bramdruckman, December 1, 2011 at 10:06 am Link to this comment

It begins with concrete barriers around LA City Hall. Then barriers around every
state capital building then around all of Washington D.C. Then as things heat up
protestors will be be shot - no different than Russia/St. Petersburg Winter Palace
1905 - and officiadom will be ‘forced’ to impose draconian measures in the name
of public safety (read protection of the bankers). When that fails to quell the
unrest and America has embarked on another foreign adventure in the name of
protecting America’s interests (read the bankers and oil executives) 100’s of
prisons will be built in the Mid-west with Kansas, Iowa and the Dakotas becoming
America’s gulag to house the 1000’s (perhaps millions) of U.S. citizens who will be
charged with terrorism and imprisoned for 25 years wihout trial because they
protested the barriers which the authoriies will consider a terrorist act.

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, December 1, 2011 at 9:48 am Link to this comment

Reading the article and the respondents ( no offense to those I didn’t mention ) only two stand out to me regarding a clear view of the actual paradigm we exist in, not the narrative we are fed to believe in.

Tom Degan, Litl Bludot, David J. Cyr, balkas and Thomas Frick seem like honest responses from folks who can read the signs of the times.  To you:  unfortunately, concentration camps may be filled by the likes of folks like you/me, for you see and speak the truth and are not afraid to do so… perhaps this time in history the truth and brave men will prevail over ignorance, mass deception, cowardice and fascism.

Others on here seem to not have yet woken up from the conditioning.  To you: be patient and don’t be quick to attack views which may seem ridiculous at first, but may very well become reality when all things are considered.

And yet others are obviously trolls, their responses sounding more like a marketing campaign slogan than an actual response to what is really going on.  To you: you will be found out.  You are the enemy.  You are the shame.

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, December 1, 2011 at 9:28 am Link to this comment

I don’t know, but I was wondering if journalists / reporters can go back to fact finding, fact writing and cease to include their own experience in the matter.

I was taught in media writing class to get to the point immediately, state facts regardless of personal view or opinion…. and present the matter, issues and findings all equally for the to easily digest and conclude matters for themselves….

I would love to see articles on TD which are more conventional than creative….. and who don’t say anything everyone else already knows…. don’t just repeat the conversation, bring out the facts!

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By MB, December 1, 2011 at 8:44 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

No on this: “As I meekly allowed myself to be ordered about by the police clearing the area so that the concrete barriers could be installed, I wondered whether I had not been reduced to the status of a fearful whisperer.”

I have a confused perspective because the experience in Philadelphia was very different from other cities. The city actually supported the movement for many weeks, including providing a permit and electricity to the encampment. But the endgame created a negative atmosphere that damaged perceptions about the movement, which was likely not intended even though it likely pleases the 1% and the portion of the 99% who identify with the issues and concerns of the 1%.

I watched your and Robert Reich’s teach-in speeches here online and I thought they were great. Cornel West, Angela Davis, and other famous speakers also made great speeches and it was very encouraging to hear all the professional voices speak out. It was also great to see the handwritten signs held up by real people who called it like they saw it. But I feel it is unrealistic to expect people to camp out in proportion to the length and depth of our problems, especially in winter although that is a different situation on the West Coast. So like I said, I have a confused perspective. But my gut feeling is the camps might be gone but it’s not over. Wow on what a national problem we have with police brutality. But how great it is to know that class has been paying attention—-look how many Americans turned out and turn out to actually be well informed about the issues considering the snow job were up against with the way news is presented in this country.

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By DonSchneider, December 1, 2011 at 8:30 am Link to this comment

There is always the 4th amendment response . Funny how it comes full circle and
progressives are unleashing their purchasing power to acquire what will inevitably
be the tools of the next “occupy” movement. What have we left ?

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By tolstoy, December 1, 2011 at 8:21 am Link to this comment

To call Hedges and Scheer servants of the current system is arrogant and patronizing venom we can do without, in my view. We can disagree without adding violence and insult to our verbiage.

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By Thomas Frick, December 1, 2011 at 8:05 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Mayor Villraigosa, quoted in the online L.A. Times: “A first amendment area will
remain open on the City Hall steps.”

I reread “1984” a few weeks ago, and I highly recommend doing so.

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By Mark S, December 1, 2011 at 8:02 am Link to this comment

Petitioning the Demublican Royalty is about as effective as talking to my garbage can, but I’m still convinced that one day I’ll coerce the can to empty itself.

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By John Randolph, December 1, 2011 at 7:47 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I thank Robert Scheer for his works which have helped me understand the 2008 meltdown and the insidious “players” involved. 

I have blindly trusted our government for years. 

Now what can I do at age 60 to bring about real change so that my grand kids will survive this madness that our country has slipped into?

They can jail the protestors but they will not crush the anger they have created.

As an immigrants rights activist, I say “the chickens will come home to roost.”

http://twopesos-protestfortheundocumented.blogspot.com/2011/11/american-voters-most-ignorant-in-world.html

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By balkas, December 1, 2011 at 7:08 am Link to this comment

“bank’s seizure of our govt” appears a distort of reality. first of all, i aver,
that everything that happens in u.s is systemic; i.,e., of the system. an
u.s govt is part of that system also.
so, neither the banking nor govt is seizing [changing, usurping?] the
governance or the system of rule in u.s. it always remains unchanged no
matter what happens in u.s.

it is a constant or as some people explain it: an eternal fact or verity
under transformation.
in other words, everything changes [to wit: amounts of
freedoms/crumbs/torture; number of wars; degree of joblessness/media
disinformation/justice; talk by pols, etc., but the system stays the same.
thus, scheer, moore, nader, rather, hedges, and just about every scribe i
know of are shills for the system.
seems to me, they want to change only bankers, politocos, MSM
columnists, ‘educators’, clergy. and u cannot even change them. all of
them are sworn enemy of anyone who wants to change the system in
which they have a privileged status, good jobs, etc.
u change the system and horrors of horrors, such people become one of
us in eclat, basic human rights, importance, etc.  tnx

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By prisnersdilema, December 1, 2011 at 6:39 am Link to this comment

don’t assume that you are an innoscent bystander….just because you feel your
intentions are the best, and that your innoscence can protect you.

the question you need to resolve in yourself is how long will you be willing to play at
being victims, grumbling, and moaning, as if you are forced into surgery without
anesthetic.  The plutocracy has been warming up some cattle cars just for you. Will you
go quietly?

Your heart is not quite broken, was that caused by the war inside, or the war outside?
Or maybe it was caused by chaffing against, the unhappy prison of your life.

The cost of freedom has always been paid with the price of brave lives. Do you think the
plutocracy can be beaten down otherwise?

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By bpawk, December 1, 2011 at 6:18 am Link to this comment

You had a potential third party with Ralph Nader years ago but you thought you were too good for him and sheepishly voted Democrat instead. Now you’re paying for it and it will only get worse for the average American.  I have a feeling all people complaining about the Dems will just vote for Obama in 2012 - you’ve painted yourselves into a corner and there’s no way out and Obama knows it. What are you going to do - vote Republican?

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By Litl Bludot, December 1, 2011 at 6:08 am Link to this comment

“As I meekly allowed myself to be ordered about by the police clearing the area so that the concrete barriers could be installed, I wondered whether I had not been reduced to the status of a fearful whisperer.”

Perhaps the best sentence I’ve read from Scheer.

After his continuing support of Obama, despite the obvious connections to the corporate fascists, I had questioned his intellectual honesty. It may be that I was too quick. Of course, there are gradations of awareness of the totalitarian state, as we have seen in other tragic proto-fascist situations, i.e. it’s Germany into its transformation as an overt fascist corporate dictatorship.

So far, Truthdig has not had the balls to confront the powers that be, so we get Scheer’s slinking guilt at cowering to the powerful, the one per cent, the corporate fascists, the insane, deadly ideological parasites that are pandemic, and are poisoning, imprisoning, torturing and killing us and the planet in order to be the masters for the few very ugly decades remaining to us.

It would be good if he were to tie in the “defense authorization act” now being pushed by those who no longer want to bother with the facade of democracy here in the US. Other than giving this link. In fact, most posters here are too brainwashed to see the significance of what is taking place. No surprise, since most voted for Obama. There was a choice. Instead Nader was denigrated. Now that he has been proven correct about Obama, the zombies still can’t realize the power to vote for who tells the truth, nor can they tolerate those who do.  http://www.democracynow.org/2011/11/29/battlefield_america_us_citizens_face_indefinite
http://loyalopposition.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/30/president-obama-veto-the-defense-authorization-act/

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By elisalouisa, December 1, 2011 at 5:57 am Link to this comment

Your last sentence in this excellent column is quite revealing Mr. Scheer and rarely asked. Many in America, including this poster have been reduced to what may be described as “fearful whisperers.” Fear is in the people more than in Wall Street. Wall Street controls our government, monetary institutions and the police state. Three good reasons to be afraid.

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By David J. Cyr, December 1, 2011 at 5:49 am Link to this comment

QUOTE, Robert Scheer:

“Sanitation and safety issues are of no concern as long as such manifestations of deep societal inequality are so far from the corridors of power as to be, in effect, invisible.”

“I had not been reduced to the status of a fearful whisperer.”
___________________

What will it take for Robert Scheer to stand up publicly and step out of the moral cesspool of the completely corrupt corporate party he has been so (D) dedicated to?

The corporate party’s Republicans deserve no respect; the corporate party’s Democrats deserve every disrespect.

Jill Stein for President:

http://www.jillstein.org

Voter Consent Wastes Dissent:

http://chenangogreens.org/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=498&Itemid=1

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By Unconventionalideas, December 1, 2011 at 5:44 am Link to this comment

Yes, there’s always money to be made as a corporate lapdog, Big Pharma lobbyist, etc.

And there will always be a long line of “ambitious,” and “bright” college grads willing to do the big guy’s bidding.

Smithers.

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By Tom Degan, December 1, 2011 at 5:21 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

If we are “a nation of laws and not of men”, and yet we have yet to see any of these arrogant thugs serve a single minute in federal prison, the lie is thus exposed that we are not a nation of laws at all. That it’s all a mirage. In fact we are living in a plutocratic dictatorship. Unlike the totalitarian regimes of old. we don’t have a face to put on our regime. Our Hitler is invisible. Our Stalin is anonymous. We haven’t a “face” to put on this dictatorship. We are being ruled by faceless, nameless plutocrats. The lie is exposed. Wake up.

http://www.tomdegan.blogspot.com

Tom Degan

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By Bill Savarese, December 1, 2011 at 4:22 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Just take a deep breath Robert…. and exhale…
Relationships change; you and the mayor. Let it go!
OK. Now pat yourself on the back for all the great work
you’ve done for the Occupy movement, roll up your
sleeves, and continue the movement… it will make that
heart-valve strong as hell!

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