Violent video games, yes. How about the violence
depicted on American television.  I wasn’t that aware
of it until I lived for a time in another country,
without access to television, and came back to this
one. 

It was a cop-suspected-criminal chase.  Two cops,
male and female, chased the suspect to the roof of a
high-rise.  The suspect fell off the roof landing
splat 30 stories down.  The cops gave each other the
high-sign, laughed and went to the local cafe for a
cup of coffee.  Probably seems pretty tame for most
Americans, but for me it was anything but tame.  It
was profoundly ugly.

Deadly violence and the socially-approved depiction thereof, alongside repression of sexual depiction, is not particularly American, however.

It would be interesting to compare cultures ‘objectively’ with regard to the amount of violence and the amount of sex which each considered permissible to depict, to see whether there was any relation between the two degrees of repression.  And if I’ve thought of it, surely someone less lazy than I has actually done it.

@Anarcissie
You’re using a linguistic ruse to dodge a faily clear issue - otherwise known in the lingusitic tradition of the Western culture as bullshit.
The issue has been defined clearly in the article -

“The Supreme Court, in essence, said no—“sexually assaulting an image of a human being” is protected speech, but depicting graphic sexual activity that is nonviolent and consensual is not.  ”

Or do you need that parsed out and de-constructed further?
A judge playing cultural anthropologist making vague blanket statements about what was acceptable in non-democratic cultures is bogus.

What would you expect from a nation that idolizes war in
it’s national anthem!

Vickie Patik, I found your post enlightening and your opinions interesting. The Violent American seems to be a reality, though I do not know how accurate your historical comparisons are; growing up I felt cowboys and Indians and war were fun kids game,.... now that I think on it, as a kid I never played a game called peace!

RayLan—I engage in a certain amount of linguistic and logical analysis because, often, I don’t know what people are talking about.  In this case, I don’t know what you’re talking about.  What is the ‘real issue’ in this case?  Civil liberties?  Commerce?  The definition of obscenity?  The acceptance of violence versus the rejection of sex?  If it’s the last, then Scalia has done an admirable job of clarifying the issue in an area usually overwhelmed with messy thinking and vague rhetoric.

@prisnersdilema

That’s some pretty deep shit right there.  Thank you for the insight!

Imagine the outrage if Tiger Woods had hit is wife? No one had to imagine, because
actually Tiger Woods wife hit him. There was no outrage about that. People are
programmed to believe that violence is ok, if the perpetrator qualifies as a victim. But
who determines what qualifies as victimization? Sex and violence are irrevocably linked.
One learns through continual practice sessions, that using others to gratify aggression, is
appropriate. Men are feminized by one, and desensitized by the other, the end result is
the same, neurotic and schizoid personality structures. Immaturity and the inability to
develop appropriate social connections and adult ego strengths, are the end result.

@Anarcissie
“But the Constitution is a linguistic artifact; therefore, it cannot be interpreted without reference to language, which is mostly given to us by tradition.”
So is that statement , a tissue of ambiguities - Tradition is not singular. It is plural.  More ambiguity. Good luck with that linguistic double-talking argument. It occurs to me that word parsing and semantic splitting is another desperate ploy of the right to avoid real issues.

RayLan, June 30 at 12:46 pm:

‘Appealing to cultural history and tradition is bogus , because what should determine the court’s decision are the constitutional principles of the supposedly free democracy. ...’

But the Constitution is a linguistic artifact; therefore, it cannot be interpreted without reference to language, which is mostly given to us by tradition.

Gordj,

So tell me, , with the advent of video games, this younger generation, with our
shifted bell curve and all, is more violent than who, exactly?  You might have news
coverage to thank for a dismal picture of our youth today, but which generation
was less violent than us?  We can’t even seem to get off the couch or leave our
PC’s.  So please, do tell me which generation we can look to for a model.

Listen, I would be thrilled if our youth was roused into action by their titillation
and bloodlust.  But alas, tis only apathy and diabetes that our children possess
these days.  And of course the latest edition of Call of Duty.  Maybe those rebel
rousers in Greece need to stay inside and play more video games.

Urekismet attacks what he doesnt understand. Typical of his hero Kadaffi.

“Ozark Michael” (if only someone cared enough to deconstruct that nym there would be an ugly if rather inconsequential revelation for sure) cannot reason a logic based response about my words so he posts about a picture.  Oddly typical of his ilk.

I guess this means that if the Catholic Church’s vast number of pedophilic-priest cases were to end up before it, the Supremes would decide it was OK for the priests to flagellate and otherwise torture their victims, but not to have sexual congress with them, so long as they (the priests) were minors.

Of course, so long as the priests were adults, the Supremes would undoubtedly decide in favor of the long-established sexually-active pedophilic practices of Mother Church, on a five-to-four vote, with the ‘conservatives’ winning again.

And the Pope would hold a private prayer session, thanking ‘god’ and acknowledging that ‘It’s nice to have friends in high places’.

Urekismet(with his logo displaying a picture of his adored Kadaffi) said: “Arguments about which is worse - sex or violence prevail.”

we all know how much your hero loves both.

What the censors seem to object to is not sex, but
the human body. There is plenty of reference to sex
in TV, movies, and advertising, much of it also not
very moral, but you never see breasts, vaginas, or
penises, but the male rear end seams to be OK. It is
my experience that a part of intimacy is becoming
acquainted with the human body, so we get a mixed
message that the body is bad but sex is OK. When it
comes to violence nothing seams to be off limits.
When I talk to my Grandkid about the violence in
video games he likes to make the argument that it is
not linked to mass murdering but what I notice about
him is that even if he hasn’t opened fire on his
school he still doesn’t seam to appreciate a flower,
or a bird, or a butterfly, or a breaking wave. He
seems to be so desensitized to nature and I’m not
inside his mind so I don’t know how much of this is
from mind-numbing interaction with violent video
games and how much is just a general apathy for the
world around him, but I do know that he spends a lot
of time in front of the TV playing these games and he
doesn’t seem to be able notice the subtle beauty that
surrounds him, which I think is a shame.

Insane there is no doubt that amerikan society is truly sick and desperate to infect the rest of us.  One need look no further than the thread above where the illness on show exceeds even that outlined in the judges’ decisions.
Arguments about which is worse - sex or violence prevail. The only thing up for debate is the particularly weird preferences of the poster.  Virtually no one argues this point at its base.
That is in a modern society where most have been educated to reason for themselves and communication systems ensure that most stay informed, what right does any group have to determine what another individual choses to absorb.
The crime here isn’t that the judges saw no problem with violence, but rather they still claimed some weird superior knowledge which allows them to tell others that something is ‘obscene’ and outside the purview of the sanctity of ‘freedom of speech’ which amerikans claim to own and have sole rights to.
For a nation which claims to be founded on freedom of speech, amerika has to be the least freely spoken society I have ever lived in. 
Turn on a TV in amerika and every word that is broadcast to you will have been weighed for meaning (hidden & in plainsight), every nuance run over with a fine tooth comb by a bunch of producers, writers, lawyers and ‘executives’ long before it pours outta the botox inflated lips of the ‘celebrity’ charged with uttering it.  That is not normal. 
It doesn’t matter if the speech is molested by the state or by capitalist overlords; any speech that is as regulated as speech is in the amerikan media is not free speech.

thethirdman, you missed my point. If we graph all people’s predisposition toward violence it would form a bell curve, meaning that some people would be highly predisposed, some very pacifistic and most in the middle. With video games changing the ethos the whole population (bell curve) is shifted to the more violent. This leaves most people still in the middle (yourself included), but those already more violent will be pushed further to that end. Not good.

Anarcissie said: “You can’t change an ancient tradition by fiat, and in any case before changing it it might be a good idea to figure out why it is the way it is, in case changing it might make things worse than they are.”

That sounds like Edmund Burke(the father of modern Conservatism) as he attacked the modern Left (as it made its first appearance in the French Revolution)

Sometimes Anarcissie, I think you belong on the modern American political Right. Thats a compliment from me but it wont earn you any friends here.

As for the Left, there is a tendency to throw out the old ways because they think they know better. This is done without the sort of forethought you request. But even if we thought about it all day, as Edmund Burke says: a society has a million lives and a thousand years of experience which is quite a bit more extensive than our thought experiments.

Realistically, you can’t expect today’s kids to learn how to kill enemy combatants on a screen, using buttons and a joystick, by showing them pictures of people fucking. You just can’t. Imagine all the time and money our military has saved by training our children to kill other human beings long before they ever put on a uniform. By virtue of having gained this priceless skill through the use of violent videogames, they will be fit and ready to kill when we get around to waging our next war. I guess teaching them to love and respect other human beings by employing the same video technology was too boring.

Appealing to cultural history and tradition is bogus , because what should determine the court’s decision are the constitutional principles of the supposedly free democracy. Greek society was democratic except for slavery - (we can get close to that one) - violent, misogynistic and deifying the male - (male nudity being acceptable over female nudity)
No doubt we haven’t progressed much beyond our Hellenistic roots. Besides sex and violence are closely linked in the still male power-centered culture. All religions have preferred murder over sex morally - if you read all the war stories, in the Bible, Koran and the Gita (which is spoken on a
battlefield). Unfortunately religion both pagan (Greek) and Sacred (Judao-Christian and Islam) still holds sway with all of its contradictions and hypocrisies.

Gary, Justice it is!

I’m going to have to agree with Anarcissie on this one.  While the reasoning
behind this decision may not be agreeable to commenters here, there is
definitely a clear logic behind it.  If it comes down to what we as a people
decide is “obscene,” than the depiction of violence doesn’t quite fit that
category and is still protected.  This point is certainly worthy of further
discussion.

For all of those arguing against violent video games, I would ask you to actually
consider the primary consumers, i.e race, class, gender.  If we were to run the
stats, I would bet that the primary consumers of these violent games are the
least violent males of our society.  I’m sure there is some kind of correlation
going on here, but we can’t just think in a one-dimensional manner.

For Gordj:  I played very violent video games all through my impressionable
years (and still do) and I have never done violence to any living creature
(excluding the roaches in my apartment.)

For JohnR. :  After watching the Road Warrior, did you go on to become Mad
Max or did your realize it was a movie and go about your daily life peacefully?

Scalia noted that, while detailed depictions of violence were a staple of Western literature (probably, world literature) going back to the Bible and the Iliad, sexual matters had almost always been more or less taboo.  This difference means that violence is not traditionally obscene, whereas a lot of sex is.  Therefore, violent video games cannot be proscribed for minors as obscene in the same way sexual video games can be.  His view is both clear and logical.

Interesting questions emanate from it.  Why are things the way they are?  We can’t blame the Iliad on capitalism, industrialism, or the Internet.  Maybe patriarchy, or the invention of slavery?

And what can we do about it?  You can’t change an ancient tradition by fiat, and in any case before changing it it might be a good idea to figure out why it is the way it is, in case changing it might make things worse than they are.

Or we could just not have censorship, instead of attempting to extend it.  People would still consider (some) sexual material obscene, but what someone else showed, bought, watched or participated in wouldn’t be their business.  But then, actually freedom seems to be frightening and repugnant to most people.  They prefer it to be something mentioned in advertising, a song, or the name of a building.  And freedom fries!

Call me crazy, but, and roughly theoretical:

Scheer concludes that—by Scalia’s and the Court’s through the ages opinion
—“violence is normal while sex is obscene.” That’s how it looks.

As Scheer and most everyone else knows, that conclusion is preposterous—as
is Scalia himself, who’s supposedly the brainy Justice. He is? Clever perhaps,
not really so brainy, though next to Thomas who isn’t?

Would Weiner have been bounced from Congress had he, say, hit his wife? It’s a
reasonable question given the context. A context in which most Americans
claim to agree with Scalia as put by Scheer—accurately so, I think.

Suppose Tiger Woods had hit his wife instead of cheating on her?

There’d have been outrage had either hit his wife, but I doubt so much as over
what both Weiner and Woods actually did. (I’d like to be wrong about this, but
don’t think I am, at least not from the standpoint of whether or not either
would have undergone the same public scrutiny and condemnation with such
vituperative vehemence on the part of a society absolutely—and hypocritically—
obsessed with all things sexual. Anyway…)

a real or imaginary proneness to violence is perfectly acceptable, even desirable
as potentially useful in a society/nation that indeed celebrates machismo a la
John Wayne, if not quite the other John Wayne (Gacy) whom Bachmann mistook
for the first one.

We need warriors with appropriate mindsets, which in fact are encouraged
(especially in boys) during socialization. Is it true that gamers are recruited by
the military? Think I read or heard that somewhere. Or was it that the military
uses computer games to “train,” or just really work up, rank and file? Violence
or a tendency to violence is obviously useful for military operations and there’s
been no end of those since I can remember—all offensive, none defensive,
including the attack on Afghanistan, which was not responsible for 9/11.

Sex, on the other hand, is for lazy (French) sensualists, certainly not for the
laboring classes (except for reproducing laboring classes). Sex is distraction,
very often very pleasurable distraction. Pleasurable activities, excluding the sick
“pleasure” derived from perpetrating mass murder on computers and
sometimes in real life, are not much approved of. At least not in the same way
or to the same degree in a society that discourages so much or so little as
taking time off from work.

(This aside from whether porn per se is regarded as misogynist. Personally, I
doubt that, but any can make an argument to the contrary. Bundy did and
feminists disagree among themselves.)

It’s my understanding the Puritans were not so Puritan as Americans now-a-
days. Bearing in mind a considerable hypocrisy ongoing as Americans indulge
anyway, despite official taboo and judging by sales of X-rated material.

I read elsewhere that some long time ago (1910 or 20 and before, possibly until
just before introduction of Taylorism) drug laws were far less strict and some
will recall that Coca Cola contained some form of cocaine; thus, the name of
the drink.

I fairly firmly believe that pleasures of drug use and sex are really (but certainly not openly) disapproved of because potentially detrimental to economic
production of goods and/or services.

I think the argument is one of economics and not of morality or obscenity,
especially as the latter simply don’t apply. Naturally and as always, ideology
prevents serious investigation, at least by and of mainstream, which is
constituted of institutions like the courts.

Violence—good and useful at least to militarism, sex and drugs (and rock and
roll too, I guess)—bad since not conducive to increase in GDP, or just to profits
reaped by those who among themselves engage wholesale and often in
pleasures mentioned.

I’m also fairly convinced that the main reason court decisions read as so arcane
is because truth simply must be avoided.

Wade GODDARD has it just right.  In order to be willing
and effective killing machines, people must emerge from
military training with full blown personality
disorders.  Why wait for military training to do the
trick when violent video games can create full blown
personality disorders at a much younger age.

Any self-respecting rogue military state, which America
now is, would be remiss in not providing the fodder to
carry out the ambitions of an imperialistic America.

Anarcissie: You all seem to have missed Scalia’s point, which was at least interesting.

Prithee, enlighten.

You all seem to have missed Scalia’s point, which was at least interesting.

You often hear the argument that “I watched violent movies etc. and I’m not violent, so what’s the problem?” Violent video games change the ethos of the culture such that those already predisposed to violence are more likely to act out their violent fantacies and for those of us not so predisposed, we are desensitized.

The purpose of pornography is to castrate masculinity.  Look at a wild Bull ferocious,
muscles rippling, stamping the ground in defiance, without fear.  You can kill it, yes, but
how do you use it’s energy? By castration, that’s the only way. Now you can use his
physicality to what ever economic end you desire. That is the purpose of pornography,
to feminize men.

Just for you Ozark -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDQpgmZWo7s

The best ways to eliminate one’s excess population is to allow them to kill each other off, through a complete pogrom of self destruction including poverty, tin foil explosive transportation, polluting behaviors and polluted environments, side-effect laden petro-chem based medicines, prohibition of all easily accessed health products, neighbourly hatred and fear, perpetual warfare and an effective (gaming) indoctrination program to teach children that the way to solve problems is to kill or maim something.

That was the strangest sentence on the internet this week. Every phrase is poor poetry, but for some reason he cant stop trying. Each attempt at poetic phrasing steps further beyond mere sensationalism, until one percieves in the writing that distinct paranoia which only certain herbs can induce.

Maybe the Best boy is using one of those prohibited “health products”? His line about how “easily accessed” they are apparently comes from his own experience.

LeeFeller: “What would it be named?

“Justice”

naturally.

Just a thought…

Sex = procreeation.

Government long ago decided on the perfect number of peasants needed to operate the machinery and serve the aristocracy and 7 billion is far too many to control properly. A Culling is a political necessity.

Sexuality has always been the bugaboo of religion - original sin - because it keeps the sexually ignorant and superstitious peasants feeling guilty, since they will, without a doubt, participate in these evil sexual acts.

By association with religion, it also makes government appear to be on the moral high ground when it forcibly maintains the religious prohibition of sexual knowledge.

Creating a peasantry that is sexually ignorant and sexually superstitious, automatically creates an environment where future generations of peasants are raised ignorant and superstitious sexually by their sexually ignorant and superstitious parents.

Making your peasantry feel guilty is far easier if they already feel bad about their own sexual behaviour, which, due to the nature of the beasts they cannot help but participate in.

The best way (taught to children since birth) to attone for one’s bad behaviour and bad thoughts has always been to die in the service of the Crown/State/Religion and win absolute forgiveness from God.

Violence = death
(or disfigurement, which makes a doctor’s dream yacht possible.)

The best ways to eliminate one’s excess population is to allow them to kill each other off, through a complete pogrom of self destruction including poverty, tin foil explosive transportation, polluting behaviors and polluted environments, side-effect laden petro-chem based medicines, prohibition of all easily accessed health products, neighbourly hatred and fear, perpetual warfare and an effective (gaming) indoctrination program to teach children that the way to solve problems is to kill or maim something.

Combined with the guilt induced through sexual ignorance and superstition, the best military fodder is produced at the lowest cost to the state.

All to protect the one thing that actually matters.

Wealth.

wonder if a new video game came out depicting an ax murder hacking up the Supreme court justices in the name of freedom of speech,... would have the same judicial sentiment?...  What would it be named?

I find the hypocritical standard for sex even more disturbing, though I would guess someone so grand promoting such purity and offering ostentatiousness with a modest model of integrity like Clarence Thomas would know better then thy common person what freedom of speech is!

Maybe we should be watching how the Greeks end their Greek Spring rally?

O and usually the “moral authority” are the one’s
blowing that evil wind and thought into your mind.
They own the stocks, the drugs, the country, the
crime, the people…Another means of control, to keep
the people down by keeping them down about themselves
and in relative poverty. Unfortunately, it is Fascism
in many regards. Please people open your eyes and
minds. These people use the government, it’s actors
(politician is too generous of a term), legal system,
“holy” establishments, and environment to abate and
destroy us for a sick power trip. Tell us we are wrong
when all the while they are getting sucked off behind
a dumpster at Applebee’s while at the church social.
So f*%@‘em! No quarter! I guess he did die for our
sins, but how many times can that line continue to be
abated, misused, misdirected, and used as a tool of
leverage and hate. Peace, and not the old fashion way.

As a reformed video game addict, I will say many are
great within the context of their medium. Although the
hyper violent video games - Battlefield, Call of Duty,
Grand Theft Auto etc are repugnant, and can cause some
serious issues. Those games really are the bane of
mankind and if I had kids I wouldn’t let them 100ft
near any of that - especially the online multiplayer
realm which is sucking our teens and 20s down a
massively addicting path. I love video games and
always will, but even the quality/depth has slipped
astronomically. Less a thinking person’s realm than an
engrossing, reactionary trigger masher.  THE BIGGEST
DISTRACTION TO THE YOUTH OF AMERICA. Online violent
videogaming offers a form of escapism and a great
place to stay occupied. The games themselves are
geared to be more and more addicting. I noticed this
about have way through my “addiction”, receiving such
a “great” feeling grabbing that extra star or weapon.
Misplaced expressions of commitment and accomplishment
through headshots and kill sprees, and don’t forget
about all your online friends too! We don’t have to
have mass murderers anymore though - they are in the
digital realm - making sure violence is well and
alive. Thus solidifying the true death of the tree of
love and harmony. I only hope more people will find
this sentiments to be partly true, and for the addicts
I hope ya’ll see the light at the end of the tunnel.
I gave them up along with television, my mind is at
ease.

On a different note the Sex Issue in America, in the
mainstream is treated much like a middle school Sex Ed
giggle fest. Sex without Love is useless, over-
stimulation/desensitization of violence bleeds into
sex, thus creating lack of feeling and comprehension.
Or any feeling or comprehension. 
I’ve studied games and modern gaming inside and out -
I will say - it is NOT good news on multiple fronts.

What do you have against group sex?  Also, where did Scalia say it’s good for you?

Scalia also believes group sex is good for you. No further evidence of the sickness of
our culture and our society is necessary, beyond our obsession with pornography, and
violence. Instead of nurturing healthy people, our society nurtures the monstrous part of
us, creating a nation of crippled neurotics whose only thought is how to get off, to jerk
off our emotional pain with violent acts. This is what narcism is all about, me, me, me. It
has nothing to do with free speech, but rather represents the search for self oblivion, the
only way a narcissist can escape their burden of isolation. As Krishnamurti said, “anger
is desperate touching”, it follows then that violence and pornography are acts of
desperation. Desperate people do desperate things, as each new mass killing reveals.

The “edited-for-TV” version of “Total Recall” is THE perfect example of how this whole sex vs violence thing plays itself out.

The TV version does everything it can to downplay Sharon Stone’s breasts (you know air brushing them out) in the first couple of scenes of the movie. But, when Schwarzenegger “get’s his gun off” by shooting through a guys body, (blood and guts spewing all over the camera), no air brushing there my friends.

Lesson, little delicious (Sharon Stone) breasts bad. Blowing a magazine of bullets through a man’s body…...good….very good.

Hey, I don’t think the violence on TV or in film necessarily causes people to go out and commit violence. What’s so disturbing is the puritanical anti-body/sex weirdness that permeates our society.

I think Scalia is correct (within the framework he’s using).  ‘Obscenity’ is determined by public consensus and tradition.  Graphic descriptions and depictions of violence are traditional in our (and many other) cultures, as one can see in the Iliad or the Old Testament, whereas sexual activities have been generally treated as more or less taboo.

I expect a schizzy response on the part of proggies.  On the one hand, they know they’re supposed to support free speech, yet on the other the Puritanical itch to regulate and restrain through government authority is almost irresistible—indeed, not to be resisted at all in California.

Violence may be “ok”, but where’s the war footage?
Our wars Iraq, Afghanistan, Lybia, Pakistan are hidden from public scrutiny. “Too graphic” and other lame excuses. The People need to (be able to) see what their trillions of dollars in tax money are spent on, what the human cost is.

Liberal arts ‘educated’ write essays, like those Mr Scheer writes.

We are using our first-hand knowledge of liberal arts education [memorize, speculate, emote, then interpret] to attempt to defeat some liberal arts ‘educated’ which includes LOTS of lawyers.

______

Tuesday June 28, 2011 10:47

http://www.prosefights.org/pnmrate/pnmrate.htm#first1

.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

Hello First Solar,

Solar arrays seen in person at the PNM Reeves and Los Lunas, NM sites prompts enquiry in our role as intervenor movants in New Mexico PRC Case No. 11-00123-UT .

1 What are panel length, width and thicknesses in inches?

2 What is the weight?

3 What is the part number?

4 What is the retail price?

5 What is the open circuit voltage as a function of insolation?

6 What is current and voltage as a function of resistive loads and insolation?

7 Assuming the formulas

Heat Rate (Energy Efficiency)

Overall thermal performance or energy efficiency for a power plant for a period can be defined as

fhr = H / E (1)

where

fhr = heat rate (Btu/kW, kJ/kW)

H = heat supplied to the power plant for a period (Btu, kJ)

E = energy output from the power plant in the period (kWh)

are correct, what is the energy efficiency of First Solar panels used in PNM arrays as a function of insolation?

If First Solar feels that the above equations do not apply, then please explain.

Please ack if you receive this email.

Thanks in advance.

bill

The prohibition against sexual expression for children is based on the fear that a girl may lose her virginity thereby diminishing her value when her father fobs her off as a brood mare to some older oaf willing to pay for the pleasure of forging a new trail where no man has gone before and doing so in the comfort of his own bed chamber.

In the olden days, you know the mythical golden days, such prohibitions were practiced only by those who had some assets to protect.

The poor’s sexual behavior or misbehavior was ignored or encouraged depending on how attractive the girl was and the potential for trading her off for something of value.

As some of the peasantry attained middle class they began to mimic the behavior of the well off and treasured the conceit that their offspring were as valuable as the rich girl who had a 24/7 minder to assure her full value in case the market in virginity looked good.

This decision enables the ongoing desensitization of children to violence necessary for the perpetuation of military empire. The hopper must be kept filled with stupefied young minds.

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2009/09/25/first-person-sho0ter/