omen, I see your point, and to some extent agree with you, especially in your focus on the alarming power of lobbyists.

Though I disagree with the antics of groups such as the Tea Baggers, they might end up serving a useful purpose: causing calmer, more rational, more thoughtful people who normally sit on the sidelines to examine the facts in depth, then choose whether or not to act, and if the choose to act, what that course of action will be.

As a strong believer in the twin principle of majority rule/minority rights, I don’t mind the idea of losing a debate—if I lose to a reasonable counter-argument. I do mind—mightily—losing to lying propaganda and unreasoning emotion, particularly hatred.

While the Senate version is deeply flawed, as I said in my previous post, and although whatever compromise comes out of the reconciliation committee almost certainly won’t be any better and likely will be even worse, the one *possible* plus I’m clinging too—and I’m *not* doing it from the perspective of the apologist crowd—is that maybe it will fuel a needed RATIONAL national discussion about the issue.

I recognize I may be living in La-La Land in hoping this; all I can do is hope to hell I’m not.

I also think it’s of vital importance we keep in the forefront of our thoughts, whatever our individual stands are, that we’re talking about *proposed* legislation—not any done deal. After all, it’s possible attempts at reconciliation will fail. If they don’t, it’s possible the new version will fail in the House, Senate, or both. Even if it does, it’s even possible—though this is a big stretch—that the President might veto it, and I mean pro-actively veto it, not simply by declining to sign it.

I imagine that the entire Congress, the President’s advisers (especially his political ones), and the President himself will be paying intense attention to public commentary as this process unfolds. In fact, I can’t imagine otherwise. They *should* listen to us, the people—again, even if I lose.

I also hope that most people agree with me that a national discussion of our health care system is vitally important—even though I know good and well that some will strongly disagree with me.

But let’s at least talk about it—calmly and rationally, examining ALL the facts, not fictions. There’s way too much cherry-picking of the facts on both sides, and that’s as bad—maybe worse—than the fictions being kicked around (again, by both sides, meaning mine as well).

omen, I’ve tried to be courteous and respectful to you and anyone else who happens to read this post, and I fervently hope I’ve succeeded in conveying that.

I flat don’t know how this is going to work out. Though I have a deeply-seated bias against *compelling* insurance companies to aceept all comers, I’m also alarmed at so many Americans not having any insurance at all—except the emergency room. I can’t find affordable insurance for myself, though I’m not without resources myself so am far better off than many of my fellow Americans. especially in my home state of Texas.

I’m not anti-incurance company per se; I am against gouging.

Recently I ran across a website for an insurance company that gave me almost complete freedom to set deductibles, etc. Here are the basics I entered:

(1.) I’m a 58-year-old male in reasonably good health.

(2.) I’m a fairly heavy smoker and have been for years.

(3.) I physically live abroad in a country where medical costs are *far* below what they are in the U.S., even in hospitals providing genuinely top-quality care (often given by U.S.-trained doctors, some who worked there before coming back). And I was seeking coverage ONLY here.

(4.) No emergency repatriation provision, nor in-country emergency evacuation.

(5.) A per-incident deductible of $250,000—yes, a quarter-million bucks.

(6.) A per-incident max payout of $500,000.

(7.) Lifetime max payout of $1,000,000.

And that page had no place for me to record that I had skin cancer over a decade ago. Yet the annual premium came to over $13,000. Thinking that couldn’t be right, I re-checked everything again and again and again, resubmitting the data each time. Got the same number every time.

I *expect* to pay more than nonsmokers and people who’ve never had cancer. But with the very high bars I placed for the insurance company to have to pay out a single dime, I was shocked at the premium.

I do agree with you, Mr. Robinson, that the bill that passed the Senate is better than nothing, and that whatever emerges from a joint committee also will be. I do have to look at it as a glass 1/10th full instead of 9/10ths empty.

I’m a single guy with no dependents and an annual income of around $48,000, before taxes, which amount to about 40% of my income, counting all the various federal, state, and local taxing authorities I have to pay (over 30). And I own some land, both a very small bit of commercial and a small ranch (that doesn’t generate any net income). What about the guy with a family making only $20-30k? What about single parents, especially women? Are they to depend on emergency care and fundraisers at their church/synagogue/temple/mosque/whatever? What about people disabled to the point they *can’t* work and are living on welfare?

I’m not going to try to convince anyone I do feel genuine compassion for those people. But it should be easy for everyone to believe I am sincere in worrying about ME and other taxpayers facing the possibility of having to fund such people, almost certainly at more expense than some form of public option would have provided.

But like I (and Robinson) said, it *is* a start.

So let’s see, this bill counts on two revenue streams to cover an additional 30
million uninsured by 1) taxing “cadillac” policies, and 2) lowering payments to
medicare providers.

What will happen is that both revenue streams will dry up because 1) people
will dial back on the so-called cadillac policies in response to the taxes, and
fewer doctors will accept the lower reimbursements from already low-balled
Medicare coverage.  And remember that this is a bill that claims to actually save
medicare.

So, in order to fund this bill taxes will be raised on you and me - the middle
class.  And the bill does absolutely nothing to contain the rising costs of health
care.  Nothing.  So those taxes will continue to rise.  This is the same bill that
Obama promised would not add to the deficit or raise taxes; and it does
exactly that.  Even CBO made clear its assessment was based on unpredictable
assumptions.

We got healthcare reform alright; we’ve re-formed healthcare into a giant
unfunded entitlement succubus.

dihey, December 24 at 12:42 pm:
‘I am a bit puzzled by the statements that governments cannot constitutionally force citizens to buy insurances even if they cannot afford the cost. ...’

The Constitution does not empower the Federal government to command payments from one private citizen to another.  The business about insuring motor vehicles does not apply.  In effect, a state “owns” its roads and can set conditions for the operation of machines on them, such as licensing, registration, and insurance.  If you don’t want to pay the insurance, you don’t have to drive a motor vehicle—you can walk or take the bus.  The mandated payments to the insurance companies will apparently apply to anyone who is breathing.

Agreed, the Supreme Court will not pay attention to any of this; their decision will be political, based on what they think will most support the established order.  They will probably have to do some elaborate rhetorical twisting if they want to decide mandated payments are constitutional.  The entertainment of watching the writhing and moonwalking will be our compensation for being robbed and treated with utter contempt.

(excerpt from http://tinyurl.com/yjjpn5e)

The health reform bills now coming through Congress are not focused on how to make health care cheaper or more effective, how to eliminate waste and fraud or how to cut out expensive middlemen. As originally envisioned, the public option would have pursued those goals. But the public option has been dropped from the Senate bill and radically watered down in the House bill. Rather than focusing on making health care affordable, the bills focus on how to force people either to buy health insurance if they don’t have it, or to pay more for it if they do. If you don’t have insurance and don’t purchase it, you will be subject to a hefty fine. And if you do purchase it, premiums, co-pays, co-insurance payments and deductibles are liable to keep health care cripplingly expensive. Most of the people who don’t have health care can’t afford to pay the deductibles, so they will never use the plans they are forced to buy.

Be sure to watch all three video clips of Obama (during the campaign) telling what he would do about healthcare:  http://tinyurl.com/ylcyez7

He proposes a PUBLIC OPTION.

He excoriates John McCain for saying he (McCain) would make cuts to Medicare—and, of course, we now know Obama is okay with cutting ONE TRILLION DOLLARS from Medicare for the first FULL ten years the healthcare legislation is in FULL effect.

Yes, Obama even talks about “mandates.”

Watch the videos and then try to tell me Obama is not a hustler, a con-man and a liar.

I am a bit puzzled by the statements that governments cannot constitutionally force citizens to buy insurances even if they cannot afford the cost. In my state of Texas I must buy insurance if I want to drive a car. Why is that different from the Federal Government demanding that one carries health insurance? The catch-phrase for such legislation has always been “compelling interest”. I think that the case against mandatory health insurance will therefore lose in the US Supreme Court.
The anti-Stupak suit which should win will nevertheless lose when one considers the dinosaurs that comprise the USSC’s majority.

Eugene Robinson
Put simply: bullshit.

‘The other is the requirement that all Americans obtain health insurance. This requirement will also likely face legal challenges because of the Senate’s refusal to approve a government-run public option. ...’

As I’ve pointed out before, there is nothing in the Constitution which empowers Congress to command payments from one private party to another.  The interstate commerce clause has been expanded tremendously since it was written, but if a person is not engaging in any sort of commerce, I don’t see how they can be reached Constitutionally.  Of course, with the present Supreme Court, all that will matter is politics, but it is definitely going to be an issue. 

I would expect a lot of civil disobedience as well.  Right-wingers and libertarians are already organizing for it.

The “forever” superfund site Berkley Pit in Butte, Montana, also qualifies as a “landmark accomplishment.”  It looks like the terminal commodification of theamericanpeoples’ “health,” as accomplished by the legislative legerdemain praised here (with feint damns) by Eugene Robinson, will mark (indelibly and shamefully) theallamerican “land” as a (quite temporary) home for the half-living dead….only many orders of magnitude bigger than that relative pockmark in the Silverbow Valley of the once-and-future “Treasure State” (Montana’s DMV is bringing that slogan back in the new year with an issue of retro license plates.). 

There’s gotta be a lesson in this somewhere.

HokaHey!

Well, Greedygus, you may have a point.

And I must admit I don’t fully understand how reconciliation works. Though the
few commentators I’ve read and heard say it is ineffective. And would have to
be revisited in a few years.

Would Lieberman and Nelson submit to pressure - the loss of chairmanships,
party money, etc.?

Not Lieberman. The Democrats need him as much as he may need them. And if
he flipped sides he might get a sweet deal from the Republicans. Money, etc.
But whatever you can expect Lieberman to do whatever is best for himself. And
considering how conservative Nelson is it may not matter to him if he changed
parties. Nebraskans might vote for him anyway. Look at Nelson’s record. One
wonders why he is a Democrat?

No, the filibuster killed progress on this.

60 votes.

That was what was needed.

And let’s not forget, there more than fifty Democrats in the Senate who would
have voted for a public option or expanding Medicare.

While in the House—- Blue Dogs are already flipping. At least one. And
perhaps more to come, depending upon the political winds. For these new
Demo members of the House were elected in a wave of revulsion for Bush.
They were chosen by conservative independents and Republicans. An
independent being someone who can vote for a conservative from either party.

TravelerDiogenes wrote:
“as I understand it, I won’t have to do that again as long as this new system is in place, because they will HAVE to accept me, warts and all.”
_____________________________________________________

Yes, they will have to accept you, warts and all, but they will be able to charge you maybe five times the regular premium , and there will be no limits or controls whatsoever on what they can charge you or any future increases of their premiums.!!

Of COURSE Evan Bayh is happy to vote FOR the healthcare bill; he and his wife stand to get ver-r-ry rich from the program’s mandates.

“Evan Bayh’s wife, for example, has made up to $250,000 over the last six weeks as her employee stock in Wellpoint has risen.”  http://tinyurl.com/yhyhcxq

Read more about Bayh and his wife’s well-being at:  http://tinyurl.com/yl8277s and at http://tinyurl.com/yln6tz8

You’d be smiling too.

Let’s focus on what IS in the bill (as we all learn exactly what all that includes), rather than what is not in it, or what had to be done to get to this point.  Realpolitik is a mother, we should know that by now.

As for me, I will be glad to be able to buy medical insurance and not worry about whether the insurance company will deny me this or that.  I am self-employed, so if I don’t like the asshole company I am with, I will be able to change to another asshole company.  But that other company will not be able to deny me, like the one last year that - because of 0.1 on a lab test - told me they wouldn’t accept me.  I challenged their lab test - at a cost to me out of pocket of over $900 - and won the right to be covered by them, with a shitty coverage package and high premiums.

as I understand it, I won’t have to do that again as long as this new system is in place, because they will HAVE to accept me, warts and all.

For all the people who have terrible illnesses, the insurance companies are going to have to suck it up.  THAT IS A GOOD THING!

What we will have is in no way worse than what we have now.

If the 85% minimum health costs is true, the insurance companies will not be able to arbitrarily raise premiums.

THAT IS A GOOD THING!

Many people did not want computerized medical records, because they feared what might some day (maybe already) be in them would allow an insurance company to deny them coverage.  That won’t be so anymore, which means that everyone’s records will be accessible to any doctor in the country, preventing dangerous prescription conflicts and wrong prescriptions.  If so much is computerized, less will be needed to be spent on record keeping and more on medical care.

THOSE ARE ALL GOOD THINGS.

I just yesterday heard that dental was included.  If so, that would be a great inclusion.

I am a happy camper.  If for no other reason than THE GOP LOST.  As Evan Bayh said, he was really in favor of it mostly so the GOP assholes (my term not his) would not be able to go around with big smirks on their faces.

.

Anarcissie -

Yes, I think you have a good idea. At least they can be forced to work for their
filibuster and their behavior can be highlighted.

The Senate appears to me completely screwed up. Here we have these scarcely
populated states with two senators - two senators, on equal terms with large
states - New York, California, etc. So a minority of conservative voters in some
states have as much influence as a majority of Democrats. Add to that the
filibuster and a minority of 41 votes can block all progress. I read recently that
there are about one hundred House bills which have bogged down in the
Senate due to Republican filibusters.

One could say the Senate is “the worlds greatest deliberative body.” That is if
any deliberations went on. What we have among today’s Republicans is a three
ring circus.

So let them read the phone book throughout the night. If they want to filibuster
they can at least work for it. I like your idea.

Quinty, December 22 at 9:15 pm:
’... But tell me when there is a solid, rock hard Republican filibuster and less than 60 members in the Democratic caucus who believe in single payer, expanding Medicare, or a public option, limited or powerful, how such legislation will be passed?

If you can, then surely you will do our Republic, with all its conservative, superstitious, fanatical, and giddy political conceptions, attitudes, and points of view, a great service. ...’

Allegedly, a majority of Americans favor at least expanded Medicare or the public option.  In that case, one approach would be to force the Republicans and Lieberman to actually filibuster the bill as-is while portraying them to the public as mere obstructionists.  In other words, forgo actually passing the bill this year with the threat that the issue will become part of the 2010 election and that a bill less desirable than the present one might be passed.  One must make the other side think they have something to lose.  This is assuming, as I say, that the electorate actually supports something like the present bill with the public option, etc.  It would also require some kind of leadership, perhaps one which fears it, too, has something to lose, like the prog vote.

I am not a master political strategist, but it is certain that you are not going to get your exploiters to give up exploiting you when you make it easy for them.

There is no way around it: Obama is a liar.

Obama told the Washington Post, “I didn’t campaign on the public option.”

Except he did.

“Obama Repeatedly Touted Public Option Before Refusing To Push For It In The Final Hours” 
at: http://tinyurl.com/ydrf783

“Progressives who argue for killing the Senate bill and starting over should explain their position to the 30 million Americans without health insurance who would be covered under this insufficiently progressive legislation.”

Physicians for a National Health Program provides such an explanation in their Open Letter to Pres. Obama that makes a helluva lot more sense to me than your article that attempts to excuse yet another disgraceful and to my mind unconstitutional transfer of wealth from the taxpayers to our ruling oligarchs:

http://pnhp.org/blog/2009/12/22/pro-single-payer-physicians-call-for-defeat-of-senate-health-bill/

Quinty wrote:
“Truedigger3

To play amateur psychologist here for a moment, perhaps because you put your faith and support in Obama you are reacting strongly in the opposite
manner, and feel let down.

Obama, whatever he wants to do, is, alas, constrained by political reality.
____________________________________________________

Quinty,

I voted for Cynthia McKinney and warned repeatedly against Obama and his bullshittig and duplicity right after he got the nomination!
Enough execuses and “this better than nothing” crap.!
Everything Obama campaigned for, he went around and done the exact opposite except the escalation of the war in Afghanistan which he said he will do.
You are like the one who is telling a rape victim:
“Well, this is a tough neighberhood, and what are you complaining about, your rapest used lubricants.!

This is a fine Republican bill.

If Jack Javits, Chuck Percy, Margaret Chose Smith, or John Chafee were around
they would be proud of this bill.

Now the bill will go to conference where the Democrats may try to make it a
Democratic bill once again. Problem is, Joe Lieberman is waiting for them over
in the Senate.

Lieberman doesn’t care. (At least I don’t think so.) Lieberman is important to
the Democrats for his vote still comes in handy. If he changes parties and joins
the Republicans, where he belongs, his vote will be very handy in maintaining
filibusters. Because he is a SOB he is one of the most powerful men in America.

Why did this attempt fail? Or not come close to its full promise? The filibuster.
Not the White House or Baucus or even Lieberman. The filibuster. That was the
political reality the Democrats faced at the start of the process. Without the
filibuster they could have passed expanded Medicare or a strong public option.
They would have had the votes for that.

Anyway, if this country ever becomes prepared for single payer Medicare can
be expanded. Progressives (er, liberals) can always return with that. Next year
even. Good luck. There will probably be even fewer liberal Democrats in the
Senate after 2010.

Truedigger3

To play amateur psychologist here for a moment, perhaps because you put
your faith and support in Obama you are reacting strongly in the opposite
manner, and feel let down.

Obama, whatever he wants to do, is, alas, constrained by political reality.

If Senators Jack Javits, Percy, Margaret Chase Smith, or John Chafee were still in
the Senate the current bill would be a fine Republican bill.

Unfortunately, due to the Senates’s rules, the Democrats were unable to get a
bill out. Now when the final Senate bill goes to conference the Democrats will
try to improve it. And make it a Democratic bill once again. Problem is, Joe
Lieberman is over there in the Senate waiting for them. Let’s try to keep cool
heads.

Think of that Starfish as you sleep.

Obama now claims that during the campaign he “never” promised anything about a PUBLIC healthcare PLAN—it turns out Obama did.

Here’s the quote from his own web page . . . 
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Do you have a plan to make health care more accessible to Americans? If so, how would you do it?

Every American has the right to affordable, comprehensive and portable health coverage. MY PLAN will ensure that all Americans have health care coverage through their employers, private health plans, the federal government, or the states. MY PLAN builds on and improves our current insurance system, which most Americans continue to rely upon, and creates a new PUBLIC health PLAN for those currently without coverage. Under MY PLAN, Americans will be able to choose to maintain their current coverage if they choose to. For those without health insurance I will establish a new PUBLIC insurance program, and provide subsides to afford care for those who need them. MY PLAN includes a mandate that all children have health care coverage and I will expand eligibility for the Medicaid and SCHIP programs to help ensure we cover all kids. MY PLAN requires all employers to contribute towards health coverage for their employees or towards the cost of the PUBLIC PLAN.

http://tinyurl.com/3n9q7c
- - - - - - - - - - - -
You have to watch Obama because he is a liar.

You also might look at the video at this link http://tinyurl.com/ygyftgs where Obama excoriates John McCain for saying he (McCain) would cut Medicare just when more people than ever will need it.

Of course, we NOW KNOW it is Obama who is in favor of CUTTING ONE TRILLION DOLLARS out of Medicare for the first FULL ten years of the new healthcare legislation’s effectiveness.

gerard wrote:
“And groups like Physicians for Social Responsibility.  By the way, where were the latter during the fighting days?  And the big medical schools, the nurses associations, the technicians professional groups, the American Psychiatric Assn. et al.?  AOL?  Or out to lunch?  Never heard a blinking word from them”
_____________________________________________________

I am just baffled and puzzled that you are thinking all the above mentioned groups will support a good bill that includes costs controls.
The current status quo is working just fine for them and any cost controls will affect their pocket books and reduces their income!!.
And from my personal experience, greedy doctors are a big part of the problem and any system or law, no matter how good it is, will be subverted by dishonesty and greed.
I am neither defending the insurance companies who are bastards and greedy nor defending that piece of crap of a legislation that has been voted for in the Senate.

Eugene proves here in that Truth and Wisdom lie with the Public and not the Pulitzer.  The comments to his piece have more substance and insight about the legislation, than the piece itself.  He adds proof to Chris Hedges contention that the Liberals are the real problem. We are soundly aware that the Republican pundits have already left the planet with their emotional, extremist, non thinking appeal to our mammalian brain fears. But when the so called “liberals” have left all reason behind to maintain their Mercedes driven lifestyle; then we the people know for sure we are on our own.

If one is to find any positive production from this bill it would have to be that finally we have reached some sort of tipping point where the absurdity of government actions fosters fitting rage and outcry.  Because Robinson’s article shows neither of those emotions, it lends only to the problem and not the solution.  Lacking both insight and courage to confront it plays to us to be content with life as it is, force feed to us.  I believe the Gates of Hell are wrought with the people who compromise their ideals and principals for popular appeal.

Maybe we have sunken so low that we need to award prizes for what people don’t do.  Government legislation like the physicians oath should “first do no harm”.  It’s clear to most who have posted here that this bill does most harm and little good.  “Heck of a job Robinson”

Anarcissie hit on the head
  But gradually, winning itself becomes the goal, and the original goal disappears.

It seems to me that the ones who “won ugly” are the health insurance companies, their stockholders, and Big Pharma. so-called.  Furthermore, instead of the general population or Congress claiming the guilt for this “ugly win” it ought to be placed firmly on the doorstep of the health “industries” lobbyists, and they ought not be allowed to forget it.  As it is obvious these industies don’t have any public conscience at all, the first step will be impacting them full force with the awareness that, yes, from now on there is going to be such a thing as “capitalism with a conscience” and they will henceforth not be allowed to forget it.

Who should and could do the reminding?  NIH for starters.  And groups like Physicians for Social Responsibility.  By the way, where were the latter during the fighting days?  And the big medical schools, the nurses associations, the technicians professional groups, the American Psychiatric Assn. et al.?  AOL?  Or out to lunch?  Never heard a blinking word from them throughout! Did they ever get their heads above water?

Winning Ugly

truedigger3, December 23 at 1:01 am

Hey truedigger3:

At least there’s comfortable shoes.

Your comments are well taken.

A new book out by health & fitness guru Jillian
Michaels

“MASTERING YOUR METABOLISM” stresses just how
extremely difficult it

is to achieve a state of health given the control of
our food & water supplies

by the Oligarchs & Monsanto.

I used to say all we can do while they prey is to
pray, but I’m trying to

be positive in the one area where some folks can
possibly help themselves.

The countless millions of people addicted to alcohol,
tobacco, caffeine,

sugar drinks, greasy fast “food” items,  over the
counter and illicit chemicals

are just doing the best they can to get by from day
to day. Health requires more.

I think “winning ugly” is accurate enough.  Originally, one supposedly wants to win in order to accomplish some desirable goal beyond the struggle.  But gradually, winning itself becomes the goal, and the original goal disappears.  This is why I say “Victory is death.”

liecatcher wrote:
“The reality is that health can only be attained by
choosing a lifestyle that is beneficial to human physiology, such as eating moderate amounts of
real food prepared at home, exercising regularly, getting adequate rest., drinking clean water & wearing comfortable shoes.”
___________________________________________________

Poeple might follow all the steps you wrote and still get sick.
The human body is very complex and many factors interacat together to cause its health or decease.
There are heredity and passed on genes.
People might think they are eating wholesome food and drinking clean water while in fact these food and water could be polluted and contaminated without anyone suspecting.
There are accidents.
There is the interaction with all these man made materials and chemicals. There is air pollution.
There are life stresses and strains.
People may not be able to get enough rest and sleep even if they wanted and so on etc etc.
Do you get the picture.?!

Liecatcher:

Here’s what I had for dinner:

Chicken tenders sauteed with olive oil, green peppers, onions, pineapples, tangerine slices, half can of black beans, half can of stewed tomatoes, a healthy dash of garlic, a dash of chili powder, a dash of red pepper, and eight drops of Stevia tincture, a one-pot dish that is quick, sweet, spicy and delicious. 

For dessert: black grapes. 

The best way to defeat the current death care system is to not eat food under arches or neon. 

Here’s to home cooked meals! 

Cheers!

Interesting:  In 1957 Lyndon Johnson help pass the Civil Rights Act.

The law was basically shit. A watered down do-nothing law that did little to ensure voting rights for African Americans. 

But without it being passed there would have been no Civil Rights Act of 1964, which did indeed expand voting and civil rights for African Americans.

Perhaps this shitty health care bill will set the stage for something better, too. We can only hope.

There are some interesting parallels. 

The biggest ass of of 1957 was a racist named Strom Thurmond who filibustered magnificently in hopes of defeating the bill while others worked feverishly to water it down.  Today we have Joe Lieberman. Congrats Joe.  You’re in good company. 

The racist party of the 1950s was the Democratic Party.  Today we have the obstructionist Republican Party that has moved far beyond racism. 

An ingenious institution, a party for the rich and their corporations that will accept anyone of any race, creed or color into its fold as long as the person is either rich or bullheaded enough to vote against his or her own self-interest.

It’s an amazing thing.

The racism of the 1950s was first channeled to the Repbulican Party as the The Southern Strategy as racist whites of the south fled the Democratic Party to the waiting arms of the Republicans. 

Now it has transformed into something else, which can hardly be described without using the word <i>stupidity</a>. 

People who fear big government addressing health care happily fund a war machine that continues to deprive them of good educations, good health care, good jobs, well designed cities, environmental protections, protection from corporate and banking greed—and by the way China will be a more prosperous country than the USA in 40 years because they are intelligent enough to invest in their economy and not pursue insane ass stupid ass moronic fucking wars all over the globe because people the USA has been screwing (and selling weapons to) for the last 60 years have finally had enough. Ahem. 

Not to put too fine a point on it. 

But now these incredible dunderheads have reached an epiphany:  A federal government is only good for imprisoning its own populace, funding a massive military congressional industrial complex, and killing people in other countries.  Awesome.

Anytime you have your head up your ass long enough you think the view from your belly button is just fine. Thank you. 

But look around, my fellow Americans, you—no matter what color you are, what religion you are—you, the person who earns less that 200K per year, are the African Americans of the 1950s.

An entire political party and all-too-willing corporate controlled television news media conspire effortlessly every day—it’s effortless because the cogs, the wars have been in place for so long—to keep you busting your ass and running around like a chicken with your head cut off for the sake of a good job and the crappy health care benefits it provides.

Congratulations all you racist creeps from the 1950s. You’re still winning.  You found something else to hate. Another group to screw.  And the group is much bigger and in many instances you’re screwing yourselves while you have you head up your ass. That’s quite a trick. 

You could probably get work in LA making movies that only play on the Web with a a circus act like that. 

But I digress.

This health care bill could be the first step in a long arduous process to start making your government work for you instead of corporations. 

Here’s to being pissed off enough to stick with the battle for a few more decades.

Good luck.

Winning Ugly
Posted on Dec 22, 2009
By Eugene Robinson

Hey Eugene Robinson:

I submit a more accurate title would be: LOSING
DEADLY:BETRAYED BY BUSH3 & THE MEDICAL
INSURANCE PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRIAL CONSPIRACY,WHO
WROTE THE BILL

The tragic irony of : ” We have a system now in which
Americans go bankrupt trying to pay doctors
and hospitals to keep them alive.”, is that MIPIC is
actually killing about one million people each
year. For the facts please Google: ” Medical system
is leading cause of death and injury in US”

The scheme foisted on the public as healthcare is
actually a protocol to manage symptoms
with drugs, surgery & diagnostic procedures which
result in iatrogenic deaths.

The reality is that health can only be attained by
choosing a lifestyle that is beneficial to
human physiology, such as eating moderate amounts of
real food prepared at home,
exercising regularly, getting adequate rest.,
drinking clean water & wearing comfortable shoes.

The countless millions of people addicted to alcohol,
tobacco, caffeine, sugar drinks, greasy fast
“food” items,  over the counter and illicit chemicals
are just fast tracking to an early grave.

Mr Robinson would you have the same “best we can do” attitude if the issue in consideration was Slavery in stead of health care?

Once again Mr. Robinson tries to sell us a clunker because it has a good radio and Obama stickers all over it.  Really, this gift to the insurance companies is going to get us where we need to go on health care?
How does that work?  By poisoning the public on anything that has the term Health Care attached to it?  This bill is designed NOT to have cost controls and is a train wreck leaving the station. Anyone who is in the least bit informed knows that the Obama administration had no intention of delivering a Peoples Health Care Bill, from day one. Rahm Emanuel was there to see to that.  This is plain and simply more theft from the peoples treasury by the Corporate elite and their paid representatives in the government.

As for Mr. Robinson’s right to express his opinion I certainly have no objection.
However, I do wonder why; with so many talented, objective, and honest writers available, why Truthdig relinquishes space to him and there by give him undeserved creditability?

Quinty & diamond,

Both of you are defending this piece of shit of a legislation based not on its so called “merits”, but because you are blinded by partisanship and are still believing in that fraud of a president, Obama.
Saying that this the best we can get is a cop-out!
A crumb of bread is not a substitute for something nourishing and sustaining.
And to add insult to injury, millions of “hungry” people will have to wait until 2014 to get that bread crumb and many will be dead from “starvation”.!
The “bakers” will get very good money for it which they will kick some of it back.!
What a sickening farce.!
Many who are furious about that bill are former supporters of and believers in Obama and are not Republicans as you think.

Dear Quinty,

I have to admit you are way too smart for me. I don’t have the slightest idea what your point is, or what your points are.  But keep writing; it makes for restful sleeping.

Dear Starfish -

First of all, thanks for the compliments. Now if you will look out the window and
tell us if the sun is shining or not we would appreciate that too. Since you
appear to believe we are unable to do so ourselves.

Generally speaking it is not a good beginning to accuse those you criticize of not
seeing the obvious. For obviously that demonstrates that you are unable to see
what they themselves have to say. Which, frankly, makes you appear a bit
foolish. And arrogant.

Of course it is the Progressives who are peeved over the loss of Single Payer,
Medicare for All, or the so-called Public option.

Obviously.

So, for that matter, am I. Even if there are private healthcare systems which work well (under strict government supervision) in Europe and Asia a broad public
healthcare system would work best here. At least I think so. And it would be the
most practical and economic approach. As for the the private insurance industry,
they all belong in jail. They should all be sent to the Hague on felony charges.

But tell me when there is a solid, rock hard Republican filibuster and less than
60 members in the Democratic caucus who believe in single payer, expanding
Medicare, or a public option, limited or powerful, how such legislation will be
passed?

If you can, then surely you will do our Republic, with all its conservative,
superstitious, fanatical, and giddy political conceptions, attitudes, and points of
view, a great service.

Please enlighten us?

This bill absolutely should fail, most of all to take away the attempt by the mainstream right wing media and the Obama administration to pretend that they’ve done something good.  This will create a law that forces all citizens to subsidize the parasitic insurance corporations that have been attacking and killing us with their denials for decades.  It is TRASH, and even with the law, it will still leave people out, it will forbid standard medical procedures such as abortion.

I just want to first say I agree with Diamond on the fact that we should not censor Robinson, and to even bring that idea up is nonsense. People like that sound like the exact same people that are calling Howard Den irrational and irrelevant.

I disagree with Robinson on the fact that we should vote for this bill. I completely agree with Dean for all the reasons he puts forth. However, Robinson makes a number of great points.

“the health care reform legislation that President Barack Obama now seems likely to sign into law, while an unlovely mess, will be remembered as a landmark accomplishment.” That statement might be absurd to progressives but remember that from day 1 both the Republicans and the insurance company wanted NO reform.

“with Republicans having confused and frightened many voters who already have adequate health insurance, why would anyone think that beginning from scratch is likely to produce a more progressive result?” When people like John Mccian fully support Dean to kill this bill, its obviously not for the same reasons. Republicans would want nothing more than to start from scratch.

“But I also don’t believe the main point of this exercise was to stick it to the insurance companies, however satisfying that might be.” This is the best point of the article even though it may not seem so at first.

We have to remember that when the President started health care reform, he started it by making a deal with the drug and pharmaceutical industries. We also have to remember that we did not start out with Single payer but with a public option. We have to keep in mind that the president already make concessions to the health insurance industry at the start of this entire mess. Why in the world would we think the progressives would get anything good out of this?

EPIC FAIL Obama has only accomplished one true landmark victory.  I and many other will never believe anything that spews forth from the political mouth ever again, short of a new political party being formed and that aint gonna happen. The youth vote is gone as they see the political system for what it is.  I had hope but all is lost. Nice try for the “Brother” Gene but it is as empty as the aftermath of “Yes We Can”  No We Didnt and We Got Screwed.

This is one of those situations that demonstrates the old adage that the devil is in the details!

If you would like to know why former Obama supporters are now disenchanted with Obama, this column is a good place to start:  http://tinyurl.com/ycx7s6s

It is typical of Obots to assume—or to pretend to assume—that any criticism of Obama (and his apologists) comes only from the Right or from Republicans.

The fact is, dunderheads, that it is the liberals and progressives among the Democrats who are disappointed with Obama who are speaking out now.

Obama campaigned one way but is now often acting in exactly the opposite way to how he campaigned.

Get over it, you Obot knuckleheads; you’ve been had by Obama. We, at least, have the intelligence to see what Obama is up to, which is rewarding the Big Money Boys who brought him to power. He is rewarding them not just for past monetary contributions but the monetary contributions he hopes and expects to get from them for his re-election in 2012.

And, as far as the rest of the America public is concerned, we can all—according to Obama—go jump in a lake.

Were it not for the filibuster we would have had a more progressive bill. And a
crack would have been made in the private stranglehold on healthcare with a
public option or expanse of Medicare.

Bit the Senate doesn’t have 60 “liberal” Democrats. And that’s the story, I think.
What’s more, the Democratic sweep in the House last fall resulted partially from a
disgust with Bush. It was not a turn to the left. Those Demos who were elected
come from conservative districts and reflect that.

I think the country will have to change before there is any real advance to single
payer or Medicare for all. And that ain’t in the cards today.

How typical, anonymous coward, that when someone says something you don’t agree with your first response is to try to find a way to silence them. There’s this thing called democracy and even though America is a poor example of it Robinson still has a right to express his opinion. Especially since he’s right: if this vote is carried it will be a landmark achievement because the old Darwinian, the-poor-are-sinners stuff will have been rejected and America will have taken one small step for mankind by exiting the 19th century on health care. Instead of lambasting the Democrats where is your outrage over the disgraceful activities of the Republicans and their stooge Lieberman? The Republicans were the ones who also fought the social security act to the bitter end, claiming all Americans would become robots with a number instead of a name. This time it was death panels but don’t you see a pattern here? A pattern repeated by all conservative parties all over the world. They are the enemies of progress wherever it breaks out.

In Australia the osteopaths went on strike to try to stop the introduction of Medicare. Many of them were either supporters or members of the conservative Liberal Party which(naturally) opposed introducing a national health care system. Similar battles were fought in England. You seem to think this is a unique situation: it’s not. And you must surely know that if the idea of having Senators who can thwart the will of the House of Representatives didn’t exist you would now have a public option in this bill. Blaming Obama only reveals your ignorance of history and the political system. It’s also incredibly childish to assume that one man can overturn decades of a political culture in a few months. I suspect that many of you Obama bashers support the Republicans anyway and I can’t say worse of you than that.

If you set the bar low enough, anything is a landmark. But it’s still a piece of crap.

No, Eugene, it will be remembered as WORSE than an “unlovely mess,” and shame on you for continuing to protect this farce of a president. He is not worthy.

This article is utter, deluded nonsense!  Balderdash!  Tommyrot!  It is a Frank Capra movie, or rather, an insult to Frank Capra movies.  What health insurance “reform” is truly about yet again is turning every citizen in this country upside down and shaking more of their money out of their pockets.  “C’mon, you jerk!”, the corporatocracy and their Republican and Democrat indentured servants keep yelling at you, “there’s more money in there!  Give it up!”  The “prize”, Mr. Robinson, is nothing more than highway robbery in broad daylight.

Here’s how this all works.

Politicians run polls of voters in order to know which TV ads to run in a campaign.  In the last few elections, even the densest politicians had to notice that people kept more and more crying for help with ‘health care’.

By 2008, ‘health care’ had become a staple issue for Democrats because of the combination that they were ‘out of power’ and that the voters were starting to literally beg for some help.  So, Democrats had to commit in those elections to some sort of ‘health care reform’.

But, if you paying close attention, they tried to subtly change the issue to just ‘universal coverage’.  That’s a piece of what’s wrong with the current system, but there’s lots of workers and families struggling with coverage that they can get, but its hard to find, hard to get, costs way, way, way too much and usually in the fine print limits the coverage such that if you get really sick then you’re screwed anyways.  The Democrats ignored all of this, and tried to just refocus the cries for help on health care into just ‘universal coverage’.

Once elected, the Democrats were in a spot where they had to deliver on this.  Read a lot of this inside-the-beltway analysis, and you see constantly that the Democrats had to pass something titled ‘health care reform’.

The problem lies in that all those TV ads about health care were paid for by contributions by companies that are making millions off the suffering of the American people and who don’t want any reform at all. 

The one thing Democrats believe in is getting re-elected, and they also believe they’ve got to have the millions made from the suffering of the American citizens to get re-elected, so there was never any danger of the American people actually getting any real help on health care. 

Thus, the Democrats create a bill that does the following….
—- claims to be ‘universal coverage’, but that’s just a lie because if falls far short. This bill still leaves about 1 in 20 Americans without health insurance (15 of 300 million).
— actually blocks all reform for four years.  A citizenry that is begging for help on health care instead is blocked off and the companies that contribute to the Democrats get a four year block on reform.
— When some very weak reforms are scheduled to kick in, they are balanced by a ‘mandate’ that people have to be customers of the companies that are screwing them, and there are $500 billion in public tax dollars paid to the corporations to ease the pain of having angry Americans forced by law to be the customers of corporations they hate.
—The four year delay also gives the big corporations two chances at buying a new congress to kill this before it takes effect. And it gives the congresspeople four years to take the hundreds of millions that these companies will spend trying to do so.  What probably happens is that before 2013, the reforms are killed, but the mandating of customers and the tax credits will remain.

Then of course, they try to sell this bill under the title of ‘Health Care Reform’, and they try to sell it under the purely political message that its ‘Winning’.

‘Winning’ on health care is just as much a mirage for the American citizen as ‘Victory’ in Afghanistan.

Should the current legislation be killed in order to offer a better bill?

Of course, yes.

IF -

If there weren’t a filibuster. If there were no Joe Lieberman. If there were not 40
or so Democratic members of the House who are a “pro life.”

This is probably the best we can get. And what makes progressives think that a
liberal super majority will emerge in the Senate in the near future? In 2010
there will probably be FEWER Democrats in the Senate and House. Once that
happens the Republican filibuster will prevent any movement forward
whatsoever.

So like it or not this is the best we can get. If a simple majority could rule in the
Senate then we would have a “public option.” But sixty votes are required which
gives a great deal of power to five or six “conservative” Democratic senators.

Perhaps we should even consider ourselves lucky that we have gotten this far?
For a powerful orthodoxy remains in this country that government is bad. And
that appears to be a hurdle which progressives will not overcome soon.

The stock prices of the medical insurance industry are exploding.  That’s all you need to know.

Being the propagandists that he his, Mr. Robinson manages in one paragraph to misleadingly call this ‘universal health care’.  Then, in a following paragraph, he admits that only 30,000,000 will get coverage, eventually, after all the deferrals and delays.

To spot the lie, you have to know there are somewhere between 45 and 50 million without insurance today.  This ‘universal’ health care still leaves about 1 in 20 Americans without the ‘universal’ health care.

Of course, profits for the big health corporations are the portion of this bill that’s ‘universal’.  All the corporations that bought off the government are guaranteed profits.  That’s the part that got 100% coverage.

Defeating every legislator that votes for this bill, and the President who signs it should be a top priority for every American who wants real reform, real change, and its the only path towards real hope.

So says the rich writer with good health insurance from the WaPo.  At a personal level, he’s taken care of, so he doesn’t really give a damn except for arguments about ‘winning’ and ‘losing’.

To someone who can’t get insurance because of pre-existing conditions, this bill means they’ll be dead or bankrupt during the four years in which the Democrats proudly proclaim to their rich backers “THERE WILL BE NO REFORM!”

In a political environment where citizens have been pleading for reform, what the Democrats are doing is passing a bill for their wealthy backers that blocks most reforms for Obama’s first term.  Obama has delivered to his backers the complete blocking of reform during his years.

For some of us, that means death or bankruptcy.  But obviously not for Mr. Robinson, who’s got nice coverage as long as he keeps churning out these propaganda pieces that make his corporate masters happy.

ardee,,,,

Ouch!!!!

... Or a landmark sellout, take your pick…

Well I would be in favor of getting “someone” off this site….not Mr. Robinson of course.

Robinson is a Bigger Uncle Tom than Obama-if that’s

possible….  We are NOT going to have Health

Care for all We are going to have Health Insurance

for some!!  Big diffence people…  And do the

stinking, fetid, unwashed masses out there know

that much of the stuff in the bill ain’t goin into

effect until 2014!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know, stuff like denying your coverage for a

pre-existing conditions!!!!!!!  Christ, by 2104 who

knows how many more Wars the Neo-cons will have us

fighting—-Iran for certain…..  And then it’s

gonna be, “Well, we don’t have money for health care

folks… We only have money for Perpetual War and

aid to Israel…. You’re all patriotic and under-

stand.”  We’re all being played for fools….

Why don’t we have the same health care as the god-

damn Feds?????????????  We are the ones living and

dying and paying the taxes in this “town.”

Shit on all of it!!! And get Eugene Robinson the hell

off of this site!!!  Let him lick the boots of the

White Devil somewhere else…..

Does the English language mean nothing to these “journalists”?  What is going on with this Orwellian speak?

Robinson,
>>we will enshrine the principle that all Americans deserve access to medical care regardless of their ability to pay<<

Does anyone believe there is a shred of truth to this crazy statement?  I got news for you. Forcing people to buy expensive profit laden insurance and perpetuating a corrupt system under penalty of law is not an entitlement program for citizens no matter how many times you repeat this lie.  Stop the double-speak. 

>>why would anyone think that beginning from scratch is likely to produce a more progressive result?<<

Only the Pass The Trash crowd is promoting this absurd notion.  Howard Dean and others who care are saying stop this bill and force the Democrats to go to reconciliation and produce a better outcome with the 51 most progressive Democrats.  You and your ilk don’t want to address this better path.

Eugene Robinson is calling the health care “reform” lgislation “a landmark achievement”!.

“A landmark achievement”!  Really.!  NO SHIT.

This bill is a piece of crap and shame on Eugene Robinson to write such piece of nonsense.
No public option , and the uninsured will be forced to buy insurance without any control over prices whatsoever for both health insurance and for medical and drug services.
That bill is nothing but a give-away and sell-out to the health care industrial complex.
And that bullshit about a person can get insurance even if he has pre-existing condition is nothing but hog-wash, that insurance will cost him 3 times the regular premium.
Many people in the middle class will fall in the craks, their income will not qualify them for government subsidy to buy health insurance and buying health insurance on their own to satisfy the law will cost them substantial amount of their income.
Yesterday Paul Krugman, also sang in praise of the new bill. It seems that the a chorus of the establishment hacks are coming out of the wood-works singing the praise, and definitely there will be many more to crawl out.!
What a charade and what a farce.!

OMG, as the kids might note.

Mr. Robinson, I admire your passion and your zealousness in attempting to turn a sows ear into a silk purse, if only for the impossibility of the task.

This bill will go down in history certainly, but as illustrative of the corruption and incompetence of our legislature and the inexperience and floundering of our chief executive. Whatever comes out of the process will be little more than a guarantee of profit for the health care industry and a very imperfect stab at providing necessary health care for all Americans.