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Why the United States Is Destroying Its Education System

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Posted on Apr 11, 2011
Photo illustration by PZS based on an image by Lin Pernille Photography

By Chris Hedges

A nation that destroys its systems of education, degrades its public information, guts its public libraries and turns its airwaves into vehicles for cheap, mindless amusement becomes deaf, dumb and blind. It prizes test scores above critical thinking and literacy. It celebrates rote vocational training and the singular, amoral skill of making money. It churns out stunted human products, lacking the capacity and vocabulary to challenge the assumptions and structures of the corporate state. It funnels them into a caste system of drones and systems managers. It transforms a democratic state into a feudal system of corporate masters and serfs.

Teachers, their unions under attack, are becoming as replaceable as minimum-wage employees at Burger King. We spurn real teachers—those with the capacity to inspire children to think, those who help the young discover their gifts and potential—and replace them with instructors who teach to narrow, standardized tests. These instructors obey. They teach children to obey. And that is the point. The No Child Left Behind program, modeled on the “Texas Miracle,” is a fraud. It worked no better than our deregulated financial system. But when you shut out debate these dead ideas are self-perpetuating.

Passing bubble tests celebrates and rewards a peculiar form of analytical intelligence. This kind of intelligence is prized by money managers and corporations. They don’t want employees to ask uncomfortable questions or examine existing structures and assumptions. They want them to serve the system. These tests produce men and women who are just literate and numerate enough to perform basic functions and service jobs. The tests elevate those with the financial means to prepare for them. They reward those who obey the rules, memorize the formulas and pay deference to authority. Rebels, artists, independent thinkers, eccentrics and iconoclasts—those who march to the beat of their own drum—are weeded out.

“Imagine,” said a public school teacher in New York City, who asked that I not use his name, “going to work each day knowing a great deal of what you are doing is fraudulent, knowing in no way are you preparing your students for life in an ever more brutal world, knowing that if you don’t continue along your scripted test prep course and indeed get better at it you will be out of a job. Up until very recently, the principal of a school was something like the conductor of an orchestra: a person who had deep experience and knowledge of the part and place of every member and every instrument. In the past 10 years we’ve had the emergence of both [Mayor] Mike Bloomberg’s Leadership Academy and Eli Broad’s Superintendents Academy, both created exclusively to produce instant principals and superintendents who model themselves after CEOs. How is this kind of thing even legal? How are such ‘academies’ accredited? What quality of leader needs a ‘leadership academy’? What kind of society would allow such people to run their children’s schools? The high-stakes tests may be worthless as pedagogy but they are a brilliant mechanism for undermining the school systems, instilling fear and creating a rationale for corporate takeover. There is something grotesque about the fact the education reform is being led not by educators but by financers and speculators and billionaires.”

Teachers, under assault from every direction, are fleeing the profession. Even before the “reform” blitzkrieg we were losing half of all teachers within five years after they started work—and these were people who spent years in school and many thousands of dollars to become teachers. How does the country expect to retain dignified, trained professionals under the hostility of current conditions? I suspect that the hedge fund managers behind our charter schools system—whose primary concern is certainly not with education—are delighted to replace real teachers with nonunionized, poorly trained instructors. To truly teach is to instill the values and knowledge which promote the common good and protect a society from the folly of historical amnesia. The utilitarian, corporate ideology embraced by the system of standardized tests and leadership academies has no time for the nuances and moral ambiguities inherent in a liberal arts education. Corporatism is about the cult of the self. It is about personal enrichment and profit as the sole aim of human existence. And those who do not conform are pushed aside. 

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“It is extremely dispiriting to realize that you are in effect lying to these kids by insinuating that this diet of corporate reading programs and standardized tests are preparing them for anything,” said this teacher, who feared he would suffer reprisals from school administrators if they knew he was speaking out. “It is even more dispiriting to know that your livelihood depends increasingly on maintaining this lie. You have to ask yourself why are hedge fund managers suddenly so interested in the education of the urban poor? The main purpose of the testing craze is not to grade the students but to grade the teacher.”

“I cannot say for certain—not with the certainty of a Bill Gates or a Mike Bloomberg who pontificate with utter certainty over a field in which they know absolutely nothing—but more and more I suspect that a major goal of the reform campaign is to make the work of a teacher so degrading and insulting that the dignified and the truly educated teachers will simply leave while they still retain a modicum of self-respect,” he added. “In less than a decade we been stripped of autonomy and are increasingly micromanaged. Students have been given the power to fire us by failing their tests. Teachers have been likened to pigs at a trough and blamed for the economic collapse of the United States. In New York, principals have been given every incentive, both financial and in terms of control, to replace experienced teachers with 22-year-old untenured rookies. They cost less. They know nothing. They are malleable and they are vulnerable to termination.”


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By cliff, April 2, 2012 at 10:28 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

We must govern ourselves & not ask for laws to be made. We are not cattle that need a sheppard to guid us. We have a slave mantality we act like mindless beast of burden. And another thing we believe because somthing is law it is just. We will not stop being slaves for the elite that know this simple truth unless we learn that freedom & justice don’t mix we lean to govern our behaviors & the way we think. Poeple in America today are in the same mind set as the Nazi. Believing if we care about our fellow man that we are mindless Liberals. We go to church & hate ourselve & our niaghbor. This the American way. Remember all hate begins with self hate & denial. We our so blined by mindcontrol we are gutted spiritually. We are afraid to question what is told to us becuese we are controlled by fear a great form of mind control.  We belive to questin is heresy so will never find universal trath.To quetion in a right indowed by our creator. Religion is a form of government. This has nothing to do with god. These are the people that after the deluge that stunt our grouth . They burned the library of Alexandria, & the mystry shcools & we still remain in the Dark age using fossil fuel & destroying the planet that we share. This has been done for profit. We have technology that is abundent the Eath’s Shumann waves. Telsa knew this but it was not used because an agent of the Rodscheilds JP morgan believed it would profitless. The ancients knew this pre-Deluge & after that is why they keep us in darkness. I could go on but either a cat knows or he will only use the 5 sences. The cat is blind.

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By Katie Martin, March 17, 2012 at 6:44 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Education is such a complicated topic when it comes to what is best for an entire country and not just one student. But it is very clear that the way the education system has shifted has become skewed in a way that is harming both the students and the teachers. I myself was studying to be a music teacher, and decided that even though I finished my Bachelor’s degree that it would be too difficult for me to actually get a position in my field because music and arts programs are being cut from schools across the country. How are we going to get the people in power to realize that this fill-in-the-dot way of thinking is not helping our educational well being?

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By ardee, July 29, 2011 at 4:59 am Link to this comment

KC, May 16 at 2:09 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Oddly enough, it is entrepreneurship that fosters (and requires) the type of critical thinking skills the schools are failing to teach - and yet you deride me as an entrepreneur for wanting to offer students an alternative to mindless public schooling via a charter school program that doesn’t have to conform to the no child left behind debacle and can instead ask students to think, imagine, explore.

The evidence continues to come in, pointedly showing that for-profit education is not nearly as good as you claim it to be. Certainly there are some charter schools that succeed I assume, but the news is filled with examples of old texts, crowded classrooms taught by the unqualified, administrative positions going, not to the qualified, but to the cousin or uncle of nephew, refusal to teach evolution, emphasis on the religious rather than the sciences. Etc.,etc.,etc.

Public education served, and continues to serve us well, despite the cuts, the sniping by propagandists ( like you perhaps ?) and the attempt to kill it by Shrubya and company. Many generations came out of our public schools and built this nation.

Public schools are melting pots as well, eliminating or minimizing differences and making this country stronger. Your cherished charter schools are bastions , in far too many cases, of white only religionists spurning education in favor of superstition.Not in every cases of course, and this is not a blanket indictment of all such charter schools, only of most apparently as well as a defense ( passionate in fact) of our public school system.

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By albertsparks, July 28, 2011 at 11:22 pm Link to this comment

I won’t say the United States is destroying its own education system per se, but generally, capitalism is destroying education for our young in general because it only serves to educate them as labour in industries. Life, trade or survival skills are taught as an extra curriculum. This is a failure of educational institutions around the world and not unique to the US.

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Anarcissie's avatar

By Anarcissie, May 17, 2011 at 9:18 am Link to this comment

Part of the baggage which charter schools now carry is the class position, interests, reputation and ideology of their most vigorous proponents.

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By KC, May 16, 2011 at 2:09 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Oddly enough, it is entrepreneurship that fosters (and requires) the type of critical thinking skills the schools are failing to teach - and yet you deride me as an entrepreneur for wanting to offer students an alternative to mindless public schooling via a charter school program that doesn’t have to conform to the no child left behind debacle and can instead ask students to think, imagine, explore. What is my motive? Am I the greedy, selfish corporate bastard you describe in your piece? I am a high school drop out who didn’t fit the mold, looking for a way to give kids like me a chance. Chris, do your research. Don’t talk about mindless programs on the airwaves and then publish a story like this without talking to the people who start and run charter schools. It makes you look ignorant and it misleads people. Or did you intend to make us think that you were supporting free thinking people by attacking alternative education?

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By Rickey Parkany, May 14, 2011 at 9:28 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It pretty much sums up why Republicrats & Demopubs are all about Federalizing Education! Anyone remember back in 1992 when the *Contract on America* included disbanding the USDoEdn? I suppose Newt’s glad he didn’t come through on that one. ;-} rap.

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By Rickey Parkany, May 14, 2011 at 9:26 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It pretty much sums up why Republicrats & Demopubs are all about Federalizing Education! Anyone remember back in 1992 when the *Contract on America*included disbanding the USDoEdn? I suppose Newt’s glad he didn’t come through on that one. ;-} rap.

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By JM, May 9, 2011 at 10:13 am Link to this comment

I referenced this excellent article on a blog called Poets for Human Rights,
along with the following post:


In recent years there has been a sea change in the U.S.  That is, I became aware
of sea change here - when we bombed Yugoslavia. 

A Bin Laden or Gaddafi are fair game now.  It has become smartly expeditious
to track down and assassinate one’s enemies, though we label the practice
“terrorist” when the hit is not sanctioned by ourselves. Unlike terrorists on the
run, we have the means to follow rule of law. But why bother?

Speeches at the Bin Laden assassination celebrations which told of the many
deaths of innocent people for which Bin Laden was responsible - while ignoring
the many more deaths of innocents for which the U.S/Israel and NATO have
been and continue to be responsible - were made with considerable emotion,
and apparently without awareness that we’ve done anything wrong ourselves.

It is clear that a different norm manifests when hubris and chutzpah have taken
over. Those in power and their lackeys believe themselves the only ones who
matter - at home and abroad. Rule of law and honest discourse are openly
devalued and/or ignored.

Those who profess to be able to lead the world are showing the world they are
not capable of leading, whether they have the fortune to do it or not. Bullying
and bombing are not the same thing as leading. Selecting a symbol and
assassinating it doesn’t add up to “justice has been done”. It seems distinctions
like these aren’t as obvious to us today. But ethical behavior requires the ability
to make ethical distinctions.

Is it power that corrupts, or an inability/unwillingness to match ethics to power
as power grows?  In short, is the fault with “power” or within ourselves? 
Historically, when power outstrips ethics the empire has begun its decline. A
downward spiral is in progress.

But the beast doesn’t die without wreaking havoc.

Power without commensurate ethics is a menace.

*****

“Ethics” has been defined (by poet and philosopher L. Ron Hubbard) as “...the
contemplation of optimum survival; ethical behavior is always self-determined,
based on reason and belief in one’s own honor.”

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By Jorge X Rodriguez, May 4, 2011 at 5:07 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The total absence of knowledge of linguistics in the referenced article, which is supposedly about language, indicates that it is some kind of joke.

Apostrophes may not work as search arguments or other input to computer programs because many computer programming languages and therefore programs treat the apostophe as a special, functional character, usually a mark of quotation.

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By Manchego, May 3, 2011 at 11:52 pm Link to this comment

- or insert the apostophe in ’ Dan’s ’ by hand in your search.

Where is the theorizing?  The example in evidence is taken verbatim from a textbook. 

As the book in question had more than one author, they had to collude or conspire to produce such consistency of obfuscation of what is one of the simplest languages in the world WHEN it is correctly presented. 

And the consistent character of this blurring does not happen by accident.  This is commissioned.

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By Jorge X Rodriguez, May 3, 2011 at 7:44 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Satirical parodies of conspiracy theorizing do not add much to the discussion.

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By Manchego, May 3, 2011 at 2:02 am Link to this comment

Well you will have to circumnavigate the program restriction that does not enable ’ Dan’s_cap.htm ‘

Go through to the http://www.justice-publications.com website.  The article relevant to this is no. 19.

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John Best asks,

By John Best asks, "What IS Progress"?, May 2, 2011 at 6:44 pm Link to this comment

It might sound harsh, but when one looks at education as a part of a larger pattern, anything that can be privatized is going in that direction, specifically, anything that is enjoyed by the average person for ‘free’, is being sold to a private company.  Often, these opportunities seem to stay within the hands of a small clique of people who already own the souls of the poor uneducated schmucks who do their bidding. 

An example: water.  We have a huge population of poorly educated and fairly poor white folk out here ‘in the hollows’.  They used to be able to drill a well, and have nearly unlimited supplies of extremely cheap water.  Now, thanks to things like fracking for gas, mountaintop coal removal, oil sand removal runoffs, etc in Canada, etc, water supplies are starting to disappear.  These same folks who politically support the despoilers of their resources, are going to either have to put up with more cancers (and higher barriers to health care access) or they are going to have to buy bottled water. 

It’s the same for education….....many generations of regular people have been able to get a better job and raise their kids a little better due to access to education.  Now, these people are coerced into supporting an ideology that is destroying access to education as part of a trend to keep people down in their place.

The unwitting minions who support this ideology don’t understand they are loathed by their ‘betters’, and will never, have their misplaced loyalties acknowledged or rewarded.  They are being used.  They are not, and never will be accepted at the club.  And certainly, without a quality education, their families will indeed live from crumbs forever.  It’s very sad. 

They could even change the situation from the grass roots if they ever woke up…....simply by getting serious their kids attitudes toward their teachers and what they are trying to accomplish. 

Enjoy the book…...I’m also pressed for reading time.  I’m really glad I was able to give up damn technical and programming manuals a few years back.  The technical education was great, but my true education just started.

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By Shenonymous, May 2, 2011 at 3:46 pm Link to this comment

John Best, I got the book!  I just haven’t been able to get into it
because of work schedule and a few other things. Life is hard.
whine whine.  I will try at least to put my nose into it this week. 
It looks very interesting from the comments on the back of the
jacket and inside front cover panel. 

On education, you seem to have a keen observation that “The
infection is in part the notion that nothing, absolutely nothing of
any value should be free.  It should be privatized so it can be sold
at it’s ‘true cost’, that set by the magical market.”  Even if we think it
should be, education is not guaranteed in the Constitution, but there
has been much legislation passed since 1787.  See Department of
Education
http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/leg/edpicks.jhtml?src=ln
Click on General in left margin then the first PDF document will give
you a history of Federal Education legislation among other topics.

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John Best asks,

By John Best asks, "What IS Progress"?, May 2, 2011 at 1:42 pm Link to this comment

Leefeller,
It could be a conspiracy by “you-ought-to-know-who-by-now” (Manchego, please enlighten us? Thank You)

Seriously Leefeller, perhaps it’s not a conspiracy, but there is a culture which has infected the ‘kinder and gentler’ public spirited thinking.  The infection is in part the notion that nothing, absolutely nothing of any value should be free.  It should be privatized so it can be sold at it’s ‘true cost’, that set by the magical market. 

In stark contrast are the notions that a good public education is one of the few rights of the citizenry as mentioned in the Constitution, if one cares to interpret it in this more social way. 

And Shenonymous, did you get that Susan Jacoby book yet?? Let me know what you think? Thanks.  I’ve gone ahead and started a Micheael Parenti book, “The Assassination of Julius Ceasar, A Peoples History of Ancient Rome”.  This is a potentially powerful aspect of these forums…...sharing educational resources.  I don’t know what classifies as ‘extraneous’ talk, but I welcome the cross-pollination and socialization.  Let’s not let “you-ought-to-know-who-by-now” repress that. 

Say it Manchego.  Who are ‘they’?

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By Leefeller, May 2, 2011 at 9:32 am Link to this comment

Is it possible the whole idea is to handicap education in the grand scheme of things? The way politics works is to undermine any ideas which may have had merit in the beginning, but become weak and made to fail. 

What is happening in the Republican states to privatize schools seems to suggest this.

Opportunism is what makes our alleged great country grate!

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By Manchego, May 2, 2011 at 9:17 am Link to this comment

You may just possibly find that a minor part of the fault might be the amount of extraneous talk that goes on about it, as on this thread. 

BUT, the main fault is in the ‘educational’ materials produced by the ‘international’ publishers, who are financially supported by you-ought-to-know-who-by-now, and their lackeys who are paid to accept such time-and-money-wasting materials and just keep talking.

And, as I keep telling you, if you don’t know about these people, then you know nothing of the real world. 

However, if you are of that persuasion yourselves and are wasting nobody else’s time but your own with your endless chat, then keep right on to your heart’s content.

But have you never considered that - rather than just chatting on and on about it here - you might be much better occupied in writing much better education materials?

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By Shenonymous, May 2, 2011 at 8:38 am Link to this comment

I am occasionally called on to review textbooks from publishers. 
I don’t always approved of them but my critiques are not the last
word.  I have noticed that critical thinking is part of each section or
chapter of a textbook beginning mainly with 1st grade.  PreK and K
don’t get textbooks per se, mostly because they are too heavy to
carry. But, teachers in the lesson plans that I get to review also do
have an element of CT even at the earliest grades.

Having been in education for more than thirty years in one capacity
or another, I’ve seen the gamut of the field from a student’s perspec-
tive all the way through professorship. I hear the chronic complaint that
the problem in education can be attributed to teachers’ incompetency.  I
have not found that to generally be the case. They work their padoopas
off with the workloads of prepping for a class, teaching, reading
papers, often working without support materials or provide them out of
their own pockets, and textbooks that are mandated by state boards of
education, being psychologist and often nurse. More often than not the
fault, if fault can be narrowed down, it comes in the form of state
required edicts. Like what to do with special ed kids.  From what I’ve
witnessed, these truly sweet special ed kids must have special teachers
and special equipment, and the time and space and materials are very
expensive, not to amortize per student the teachers’ salaries who must
be in charge of their education of maybe two or three students a day. I
am not saying special ed kids should not get an education. Heavens no! 
But a great deal of educational budget goes to specialized education
programs.  States mandate inclusion, meaning these kids must be put
into the regular classroom for a part of each day, regardless of ability to
comprehend and the regular classroom teacher must also spend an
inordinate amount of time attending to the needs of the special ed kids
which eats into the time spent on the “normal” kids, and hence the
regular kids do not get the full attention of the teacher. Classrooms are
now really full, up to 30 or more students. Try to imagine all the work
that must go into teaching and evaluating each student and dealing
with parents who often are merely busybodies interfering with their
child’s education. I have seen parents, perhaps well meaning but
nevertheless disrupt and impede their children’s education. This
addresses John Best’s comment about parents who poison their kids
attitudes about learning. But that is not the panacea. It is a complex
problem. Parents, teachers, school district attitude and demands of
work load, state requirements of content and test results, the economy,
the political attitude, all of it. There are folks at every area just
mentioned who are working to find solutions to particular parts but
then a synoptic solution needs intuited.

There are competing arguments for and against inclusion of special ed
kids.  So I do not know the answer. I only know the way it is in my state
it is a horrendous expense. What is the solution?  It is an emotion-
laden question.  But that is only one expensive area on which the
State’s funds are spent. The State-mandated incessant testing in
an effort to force teachers to cover a certain amount of content
material might also be well-intended but the result is that teachers
are conditioned to teach to the test. And a certain amount, a lot
really, of students just simply fail.  Now I know of a state that requires
advancement of a student who fails a class three times.  That means
those students infiltrate higher levels deficient of the required
understanding of content material. There are after school and Saturday
school programs but still the three-year rule is law. Teachers are put in
an impossible position. It is a conundrum we all have to work toward
fixing.

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John Best asks,

By John Best asks, "What IS Progress"?, May 2, 2011 at 6:59 am Link to this comment

Mr. Baaaaaad, (anyone who doesn’t poke fun of an anonymous poster with a name like ‘Mr. Bad’, is just not trying)  In any event, I did read the rest of your post, and though it’s not without a couple decent thoughts, but you completely ignore that there are a lot of parents who poison their kids attitude.  Attitude absolutely determines altitude in education, career and life. 

FYI, I run a small manufacturing company, and am an engineer by education, though I’ve studied far outside my technical field into many ‘soft sciences’, including history, for some years.  You’ve obviously only worked on ‘typical’ boards.  As you suggest with teachers needing a ‘fire lit under them’, same with a board, and not a board of hand-wringing ignoramuses from the left or right wings.

But anyone who calls themselves ‘Mr. Bad’, geez, give me a break. Why are you so Baaaaaad??  What’s up with it?

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John Best asks,

By John Best asks, "What IS Progress"?, May 2, 2011 at 6:48 am Link to this comment

Mr. Baaaaaaad,

I didn’t get past this: “Your sarcasm is just as reflexively banaaaaal and stunted as your thinking, you should stick to pontificating like the prolix, pseudo-intellectual blowhard you are, it suits your style.”  Bye now.

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By Jorge X Rodriguez, April 29, 2011 at 7:26 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

A society which is anti-intellectual and anti-education is not capable of judging education or educators.  That’s the problem now and it’s going to continue to be the problem no matter how much pain you inflict on teachers.

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By Leefeller, April 29, 2011 at 11:03 am Link to this comment

I suspect judging anything by NYC standards may be a handicap right from the start? John bests list a higher percentage of dead wood than what I see here, (seems subjective to me) so what does that mean, we take the NYC standard and use it as a template for change? 

Well Mr. Bad what you seem to seek is happening in Michigan, where the state is taking over the school districts and I suppose setting up to privatize them. Maybe Michigan could teach NYC the right way? 

Education at the higher levels are being attacked, there is way to much going on in the political arena to really come up with a solution. I sure as hell do not have the answers, but I do see changes being shoved down the peoples throats whether they want them or not. Again there is money to be made in eduction like their is money in the penal system.

Privatize everything seems to be the motto right now. Get rid of public services, Medicare, schools, Social Security, murals depicting labor, they seem so socialist anyway, the way the money is going we can all expect those heavy trickle downs from Exon!

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By Mr. Bad, April 29, 2011 at 10:41 am Link to this comment

@ John Best

Your sarcasm is just as reflexively banaaaaal and stunted as your thinking, you should stick to pontificating like the prolix, pseudo-intellectual blowhard you are, it suits your style. If I had my way I would take a two part approach, target the two problems, teachers and public schools themselves by requiring all teachers to have degrees in the subjects they teach, make an Assoc. in education the national standard for certification so that a professional on his way could try teaching, and if it’s suitable add increasing incentives - this means there will no longer be “career teachers” unless they are actually suited for teaching. Those professionals could also see their college loans disappear if they served a certain term satisfactorily.

Next thing would be to end by legislative action the default “public school” as the choice for mandatory education. Failing public schools should be able to be closed the same as charters, every five years the bottom 10% of schools, chartered or public will close, no appeal, no nonsense. When good teachers see bad teachers and administrators putting them out of work they will be more inclined to speak up.

Finally, the most obvious solution is year round school, this is of course impossible with unions in charge but entirely feasible when they’re gone. Teaching is a tough job, and I would support mandatory 6 week vacations per year for them but the notion that kids can compete globally when they spend their summer forgetting what they learned is to support an entirely backwards and archaic practice. Shorter school days and longer school years make sense for kids, why not try it?

Your solution is to elect/appoint a “board”... I just can’t stop laughing, really. What branch of academia do you sully with your “thoughts”? I’m guessing a soft science, am I close? Certainly nothing too intellectually rigorous I hope…

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John Best asks,

By John Best asks, "What IS Progress"?, April 29, 2011 at 10:11 am Link to this comment

Well, Mr. Baaaaad,
I saw you added a number of complaints without adding any of the ‘clever thinking’ you demand of others. 

Why is it impossible to design a system of re-certification boards that are scholastically tough, competent and politically neutral?  Perhaps you’ll show us some clever thinking and demonstrate the precise dynamics at work, and make suggestions. 

If it’s half clever, and supported with experience or data, then it may indeed be worth more than your “wishful groping”.

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By Mr. Bad, April 29, 2011 at 9:34 am Link to this comment

@ John Best & Leefeller

OK, I see where this is going, wishful thinking and endless groping for solutions that lead nowhere, change has to come all at once or not at all - revolution! To the ramparts… Sometimes I understand why conservatives despise progressives so much and why they keep winning.

What about some clever thinking instead of doctrinaire responses like “recert boards”, how can that even be taken seriously as a means of measuring competency? There is no “objectivity” in these matters. This is my problem with the whole “bubble test” motif in Hedges article, what does he propose, that we all return to a one room schoolhouse? How else do we measure achievement and competency and ensure the kids as opposed to the teachers are being served?!? Is he really railing against the “bubbles” or instead that notion that Educators be made accountable for their efforts, or lack thereof. My personal experience in NYC schools was not that my classmates lacked intelligence or ambition, rather that their teachers did, and they spent endless hours of class time trying to learn something from someone who did not themselves understand the subject (an education degree, LOL) and understood even less how to teach it.

The drive to privatize schools might be co-opted by the left and yield an IMPROVED solution if they had the courage to demand something more than partisan rhetoric of the kind in these posts. I still have no idea why Progressives cling to the notion of public schools and their unions unless it has to do with pure political expediency. Children are guaranteed a free education, there is no reason it has to be at a public school, especially if such school is failing to accomplish anything more than industrial scale institutionalization.

As for the notion that vouchers give poor and minorities less choice, well that is something I’ve never heard from any poor person or minority group spokesperson who didn’t have union “friends”, in fact it has been the exact opposite response in my experience. Poor parents have no options other than failing public school in most states, they are “locked in” to the union education machine.

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By Jorge X Rodriguez, April 29, 2011 at 8:17 am Link to this comment
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American teachers’ unions correspond to the society in which they are embedded.  In that society, the only thing that matters for most people is having a lot of money or the prospect of getting it because of having a ‘good’ (high-paying) job.  Such a society cannot demand high-quality performance from its educators because most of its people do not respect education and have little or no idea of what it consists of.  They think it can be measured by multiple-choice tests of memorized data scored by machines.  Meanwhile they believe all kinds of arrant nonsense and avoid real information and real thought like the plague.  Look around you!  Look at the politicians, the entertainers, the celebrities, the rich and famous!  What kind of people are they?  Which of them shows evidence of having even gotten through high school?  It is a miracle that American schools manage to teach anything.

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John Best asks,

By John Best asks, "What IS Progress"?, April 29, 2011 at 8:14 am Link to this comment

In my experience 10-20% are problematic.  10% are completely unsalvageable.  Some are ‘trouble makers’ they’ll just re-pollute the attitude of the union.

A problem is that perfectly competent teachers have no confidence that should the ‘absolute protection’ quality of their union be diminished, they will be the target of arbitrary decisions about their value or competency.  There must be a politically neutral and scholastically competent re-certification board, and getting/maintaining such a board won’t be easy.  Ideally, this is the job of school administrators, but I suspect they are merely politically/career aware people ascend from the ranks of teachers.  I’ve seen more bad administrators than good, and I’d say only 10-20% of them could be retained.  These administrators need to be powerful, competent, unbiased, and report to a central authority for scholastic standards. 

This system can be whipped into shape, but it won’t happen from the bottom up, and teachers are indeed going to have to see the sort of leadership I describe, and then have enough confidence in themselves and the leadership to give up the current ‘protectionism at all costs’ aspect of the union.  It’s all gotta happen at once, system wide. IMO of course.

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By Leefeller, April 29, 2011 at 7:56 am Link to this comment

John Best,

Getting rid of dead wood sounds like a plan, it seems to me this should be part of the collective bargaining process and not by eliminating the right of teachers to be equals at the bargaining table via collective bargaining.

Dead wood needs to be defined, but without prejudice as most anti union people seem to already have. Now from one posters comment I heard, all or most of the teachers are dead wood in this persons area. in my area I would argue the point it is a small minority which are dead wood.

So where would one go from here?

It does not matter anyway, it seems the bought and paid for political momentum is leaning to the agenda sponsored by special interest benefactors to privatize schools and push through the voucher system with charter schools. After all there is money in them there coffers.

It is also seems a way of evading equal rights for the poor and minorities, especially now that many states are making it almost impossible to register to vote. Marginalizing people seems to be the Republican way, the Democrats seem to be followers? The political landscape seems very despicable.

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John Best asks,

By John Best asks, "What IS Progress"?, April 29, 2011 at 7:15 am Link to this comment

IMO, Jorge X Rodriguez comment of April 28 at 1:22 pm, below is a concise summary of the key issues, each sentence points out a particular aspect of the problem which, seemingly complex, needs addressed through aggressive and brave leadership.  That said, I agree he does not go far enough to address the remaining key factor: the nature of the teachers unions. 

Should national leadership ‘grow a set’, and set parents right as to their responsibilities, and to the absolutely necessary respect that would be accorded teachers, it is exactly as necessary that the teachers union be re-shaped to purge the system of the dead-wood.  It’s a matter of good faith…..the union is going to have to change it’s fundamental mission of protection to one of quality assurance. 

This is all a matter of strong leadership, unafraid to seriously offend two major sources of political support: teachers unions and the this ‘general ignorance worshiping’ mass of the population.  Time for someone to call ‘bullshit’ on the whole ingrown situation.

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By Mr. Bad, April 28, 2011 at 8:45 pm Link to this comment

@ Jorge X Rodriguez

Well, this is the standard Union Teacher defense, i.e. it’s the fault of “society”, don’t blame us, but keep paying us well and giving us pensions and tenure, we keep the facade of public education alive so nobody has to face the hard truth… that we’re babysitting kids for big bucks until they hit minimum wage jobs or enter into a criminal enterprise - this is exactly what I thought Hedges was railing against in “The Death of…” i.e. Unions (public or otherwise) collaborating with the establishment.

I still can’t believe you accuse me of “not having thought much about the problem” when at the same time you ask “Is there a problem?” like some incredulous Alfred E. Neuman, ‘What, me worry about kids who graduate NYC public schools functionally illiterate?”. It’s obvious you’re either a Public School teacher or an apologist, that whole shtick about “200 languages” is risible, 90% of NYC public school students speak English or Spanish or both, it isn’t the few ESL students with zero English skills that are holding back the rest and draining all the resources.

I’m more curious to hear from anyone who has any REAL insight into Hedges stand on this matter which seems to me entirely out of character.

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By Jorge X Rodriguez, April 28, 2011 at 1:22 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Yes, but what is the problem?  Most learning, even school-type learning, takes place in the home.  If the parents spend their days and nights staring at the tube, they’re going to have dumb kids. In the U.S. we have a society where people mostly despise learning and education.  Look at the people they elect, look at the wack ideas they promote, look at the advertising, look at the celebrities.  There is nothing school can do to overcome all that.  Busting the few who soldier on teaching is not going to fix anything.

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By JP Merzetti, April 28, 2011 at 9:47 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

However good or bad teachers are, or their union, or the forces promoting them or damning them to hell, any society that creates conditions which discourage 99% of the best and brightest from touching the profession with a hundred foot pole…well, I say that society deserves to be dumbed down to perdition, crawl into its own uneducated hole and relieve the rest of us from having to deal with the consequences.
Education, like religion, health, food and most other worthy things, has become just one more commodified investment opportunity for the wrong people. McAlgebra, anyone?
Wow. In my granny’s time, most teachers were unmarried young or young-ish spinsters (at the elementary level.) They worked for a pittance, and usually quit when they got married.
In my time, teaching sustained an honored standing within the community. This is what the community demanded and expected. Why that is no longer case is, I believe, the real root of the problem.

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By Jorge X Rodriguez, April 28, 2011 at 8:00 am Link to this comment
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Mr. Bad—In regard to the schools, is there a problem?  If so, what is it?  And what’s the solution?  Your blanket dismissal of 99% of all teachers, plus the city government, suggests that you haven’t given the issues much thought.

I think the schools of New York City have actually done a pretty good job, considering what they’re dealing with—150 different ethnic groups, 200 religions, and a ruling class who don’t care about them because they’re all filthy rich and send their spawn to private schools.  But maybe there shouldn’t be any public schools.  After all, we now have television and video games to tell us everything we need to know.

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By Mr. Bad, April 27, 2011 at 6:09 pm Link to this comment

Hi,

Look, I have an honest question, why is Chris Hedges defending the public unions, especially teacher’s unions? I was in awe of Mr. Hedges last time he was on NPR, when he was promoting “The Death of the Liberal Class”, so much so I dropped what I was doing and ordered his book, seriously. I devoured it in an evening and finished it thinking there was FINALLY someone out there, a public intellectual, who understood and could articulate how the average “Classic Liberal” as Mr. Hedges so deftly distinguished from the usual d*ckless progressive, felt about the current state of affairs. I feel like a tool now, frankly. I don’t know how to begin to defend myself from the onslaught of haughty jerk-offs this post will provoke but I do want to know why Hedges damns the unions (rightly so, IMO) in “The Death of the liberal Class” for their collaboration with capital interests and then indulges in this sort of pro union rhetoric (bubble tests? lol). I’m genuinely confused. I’m a product of NYC public schools and I can tell you, frankly, that 1% of the teacher’s in the system are priceless paragons of human virtue, and they have made all the difference in my life, but not every life, nor have they served all equally. The rest are a bunch of do nothing morons on the public tick, sorry but that’s a fact, and they owe their jobs to the union work rules and the scant enforcement of such. I don’t much care for Bloomberg and the Cathy Black scandal has just demonstrated how little Mr. 3 Term dictator understands the city he supposedly loves but where is the REAL REFORM? Because it’s not coming from the left… I welcome all responses that aren’t out and out flaming. Thanks.

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By Leefeller, April 21, 2011 at 1:24 pm Link to this comment

My pet peeve with Fascist’s set aside for the moment.

I feel the powers that be, those with the means, the ones OM supports,  find the unwashed masses (for OM) nothing more than tokens on a board game, to them the masses lives are nothing more then pawns in a combination game of monopoly, chess and battleship,..... just a game all the same!

In the end, Macks back to the land plan seems to have merit,.... most unfortunate for most, the opportunity to live in peace and harmony on Tao Walkers Turtle Island or my land of OZ will never come to be. We see much more of what appears as wonderland with the Queen of Hearts in charge than what I recall was Never Never Land!

Ignorance does seem to have firm footing in the grand plan, especially now as the stomach turns!

{note: I am going to submit this one more time because it said it did not so sorry if it posts twice.}

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By Jorge X Rodriguez, April 21, 2011 at 11:08 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The stuff about dictatorial control of the lower classes and breeds IS kind of weird.  I guess if you scratch a lot of “progressives” you find something that looks a lot like an old-time conservative.

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By Anarcissie, April 21, 2011 at 7:27 am Link to this comment

My goodness, what a lot of right-wing stuff! Authoritarianism, classism, even a whiff of racism.  I had best gather up my skirts, avert my face, and hurry away.

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By Thanatos, April 20, 2011 at 10:19 pm Link to this comment

———————————

Where the truth lies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx4pN-aiofw

Another interesting documentary is “Waiting for
Superman.”

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John Best asks,

By John Best asks, "What IS Progress"?, April 20, 2011 at 9:45 pm Link to this comment

Mack, Just to clarify, you say, “.......damning them because of their ignorance only reinforces their proclivities to a life of crime and feckless procreation.”  You are right.  I should not damn the ignorant, but I reserve the right to damn those who promote ignorance.  If they are ignorant and also promote ignorance, damn them.  The absolute worst though, are those who are not so ignorant, yet support the culture and reverence of ignorance.  Double damn those jerks.

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By lastpaige111, April 20, 2011 at 4:40 pm Link to this comment

With the right leadership, financial and teacher supports, and curriculum, public schools do much better than charters.

Visit: http://www.facebook.com/tom.owad#!/pages/The-Mission-is-Possible-Public-Schools-that-Work/209801992372040?sk=wall

a clearinghouse page for public school advocacy.

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John Best asks,

By John Best asks, "What IS Progress"?, April 20, 2011 at 3:51 pm Link to this comment

Actually Mack I went back to work thinking about that last post…......I once (1995 or so) asked a school nurse, of an elementery school of 500 students, how many were on Ritalin.  One good thing about a small town is they’ll actually tell you the answer even if technically they shouldn’t.  80.  80 out of 500 were on Ritalin, Methylphenidate.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylphenidate

So, I guess some of those kids are now old enough to be the “meth addicted white trash welfare mothers with absent unemployed ‘husbands’” I was talking about.  Guess what?  Any of them can run for their local school board, and if they’re compliant with the powers that be…....they have a good chance of getting the nod.  Sorry man, that is part of the real world.  Yes, I was trying to be a bit dramatic by perhaps over-emphasizing a real demographic, but 80/500 came back to my mind. 

Now, I’m going to go throw up and get back to work.

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By John Best asks, "What IS Progress"?, April 20, 2011 at 2:58 pm Link to this comment

Mack,
“...you get a bunch of meth addicted white trash welfare mothers with absent unemployed ‘husbands’.”
The last stereotype is over the top.  Yes, it’s my style of emphasis.  And, the ones who aren’t addicted to meth are HUGE!  You wouldn’t believe how much of this you see in the local news in Western and Central Pennsylvania, or go to the Walmart.  It’s a stereotype because there are numbers out there.  It is really getting ugly as hell out there, and these poor stupid folks are getting their water supplies fracked right out from under them they’re so damn ignorant. 

I’m not sure why you say it’s over the top, but look around.  You see huge fundamentalist women with T shirt that say: ‘born to procreate’ being given authority to home school by the local school board.  It’s child abuse!  Good for cannon fodder?  Is that the plan?  This is the reality out here in the heartland! 

Regardless of how intelligence is measured, these people and many who are not as outwardly disgusting, are every bit as disgusting in their attitude toward education (regardless of how it’s organized).  There is a broad culture of ‘ignorance worship’, and it’s continually reinforced through the broad media.  While centralized authorities, if corrupted, can be ineffective or counterproductive, local authorities most certainly are both.  Centralized iron hand authority, uninfluenced by the lunacy corrupted of the extreme left or the extreme right is the only way to go IMO.

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By Anarcissie, April 20, 2011 at 2:07 pm Link to this comment

John Best—I think history shows that centralized, authoritarian organizations can go as wrong as any other scheme of producing learning, intelligence, competence, just as they have in so many other areas of life.

The most fundamental element of critical thinking isn’t logic or rhetoric, it is the impulse to disagree, to resist, to rebel.  You can’t order people to rebel very successfully.  You can’t force them to be free.  Fortunately some of them will make this choice regardless of what they’re told.  They will then be labeled cranks, lunatics and criminals.  And some of them will be.  None of this is going to work out well within the pyramid of authority.  All the authority knows how to do is suppress whatever is not in accord with its precepts and principles.

As for IQ, the idea that the intelligence or mental ability of a human being, indeed, of a mouse, can be fully measured by an integer in the range of 0 to 200 is so evidently wrong-headed I am shocked that it is even mentioned in respectable company any more.

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John Best asks,

By John Best asks, "What IS Progress"?, April 20, 2011 at 1:41 pm Link to this comment

@ZenBowman, I assume you were ‘educated’ fairly recently in the public system?  How well did you do?  Did you do the work assigned?  Were you dedicated to getting the most out of the opportunity that previous generations paid for and provided to you as prescribed by our founding documents? 

And, I did not say, the old nonsense about “humans are dumb idiots and need to be controlled by a benevolent central government”.  But since you brought it up:  Why do we need a strong central DOE?  Try serving on a school board and you’ll see.  I don’t base my opinion on what I’m told to think, I’ve been there, done that.

‘Local yocals’ are indeed undereducated idiots and are 1. incapable of making proper curricular decisions, 2. over-involved with extracurricular BS like sports, and 3. corrupt, often trying to get their relatives jobs or contracts paid for by public monies.  50% of humans are under IQ 100.  That’s pretty damn dumb in today’s world.  How are they going to be educated so they can pull their own weight in this technological world, especially if their curriculum is set by ‘average’ people, even if they are well meaning?  Can’t be done.  You need the best of the best.  Otherwise, you get a bunch of meth addicted white trash welfare mothers with absent unemployed ‘husbands’. 

Bottom line: this is not a place for faith.  Faith is for church.  This is an area where we need competence.  Faith is for morons.

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By Leefeller, April 20, 2011 at 1:14 pm Link to this comment

ZenBowman, your wishful thinking has come to roost,  you may contemplate moving to Michigan, it seems your fantasy has already been fullfilled or you could move to Texas and take Jefferson out of your history books, lets get rid of the feds, so something called the labor department, can take down murals depicting labor!

Privatize education, ZenBowman, lets make it a for profit enterprise like health insurance then everyone can afford it.

In the south why waste money educating blacks, hey maybe it will catch on in the North too! Lets have a voucher system, then we would see all those “ZenBowamn academies” popping up like McDonalds next to Wal Marts and without those stinking unions. I bet someone stands to make some money,..... of course not those socialist teachers!

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By ZenBowman, April 20, 2011 at 12:28 pm Link to this comment

@ John Best:

Ahh, yes, the old nonsense about “humans are dumb idiots and need to be controlled by a benevolent central government”.

Remind me again why the left considers itself more humane again? Seems like you have no faith in humanity whatsoever.

Thanks, but no thanks. End the DOE.

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By John Best asks, "What IS Progress"?, April 20, 2011 at 11:14 am Link to this comment

I sampled criticalthinking.org.  Perhaps it’s quite good for some pedagogical purposes, not my call, but it’s very, very short on content regarding boolean algebra and logical fallacies, without which all other strategies and tactics referenced in the website sort of just hang there.

IMO, Boolean algebra (logic) and logical fallacies,  are 75% of the necessary foundational working tools of critical thinking.  One cannot construct or dissect an argument without them.  As a matter of proper emphasis, shouldn’t the bulk of a critical thinking curriculum ensure that the tools of Boolean algebra and logical fallacies be at the students ready as a scalpel in the practiced surgeons hand?  All the other ‘strategies’ work so much better under that condition.

I’ll venture a half formulated statement: Extreme competence in Boolean algebra and in recognizing logical fallacy is an absolutely essential validated premise to every successful conclusion of any students pursuit of critical thinking.

Here’s another unmemorable quote regarding a personal pet peeve: “What is the point of using Socratic questioning on an empty-headed idiot?”  In other words, the Socratic method is useful if the student has been taught adequate content to assimilate into a logical conclusion.  I use the word ‘taught’ to emphasize that ‘content’ does not originate in each blank slate mind through questioning, though Rousseau and others would have you believe so.  Socrates was not a god, though his name carries that aura in many circles.  Sort of like the founding fathers, but I digress…..

Yes, I’m a content person.  Content competence or preferably expertize is a pre-requisite for investment in pedagogical training.  This should be an administrative philosophy, IMO.

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By Leefeller, April 20, 2011 at 11:09 am Link to this comment

My nephew told me he was taking a college course in Rethought and I chided him for it…... not knowing at the time, it was the same as Critical Thought? He wants to write technical manuals?..... I always learn things here, thanks folks!

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By Anarcissie, April 20, 2011 at 10:38 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous—In regard to the popularity of G. W. Bush and Ronald Reagan, I can speculate as well as anyone, but when it comes to empirical evidence, I don’t have a lot to go on.  In 2004, I encountered only two people, not political operatives, who said they intended to vote for Bush.  One was an Irish fellow who said that failing to elect Bush would constitute backing down from a fight, and you never back down from a fight once you’re in it even if you’re wrong.  That seemed like a rational view even if incorrect.  The other gave me a weirdly mystical religious explanation in which Bush seemed to be a Christ figure.  My intuition is that both of these were outliers, however.  I recall some flack asking which of Bush and Kerry one would rather have a beer with, and this gave me the idea that in both 2000 and 2004 Bush was seen as the more regular-guy sort of person and therefore less threatening than Gore or Kerry, both of whom are aristocratic.  But now I am back in the realm of speculation.

Curiously, in 2000 Bush was generally held to be the less interventionistic of the two major candidates, Gore being tainted with Clinton’s adventures in the Middle East and the Balkans.  I believe he explicitly said that he was not interested in ‘state-building’ of which there had been so much in the Clinton years.  Probably, ‘regular guys’ do not build states; that sort of thing is the business of aristocrats.

This view, so apparently far afield from education, actually hooks back into it via the class nature of the concepts of education and the role of intellectuals in the state.  Reagan and the younger Bush, being ‘regular guys’ and non- or anti-intellectual (in appearance) would be seen as being on the good side of the class struggle between the ‘regular’ or ‘real’ people, and the aristocrats or elites who exploit and defraud them, by means of the education industry and the agency of professional intellectuals as well as in other ways.  (I am not pretending this is a logically consistent view, or based on good evidence; it is intuitive and based on appearances and early experiences.)

But as I say all this is speculation.

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John Best asks,

By John Best asks, "What IS Progress"?, April 20, 2011 at 10:05 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous…..Keep up the good work, but I think ‘rhetoric’ is a formal body of work, a discipline that shouldn’t be diluted across a curriculum.  Certainly, applications for this material should be sought and reinforced in every serious classroom, but I feel strongly that rhetoric, or logic, or Philosophy of Logic,or as we call it ‘critical thinking’ (though I dislike the term) should be a specific free-standing class and a multi-year pursuit.  Especially in light of two factors: the ‘digital era’, where Boolean algebra should be taught starting early in primary school, and the so-called ‘information era’, which is really more of a noise era, where solid practiced application of said skills is essential to keep individuals from being horribly manipulated, or at least wasting their lives in the noise.

If we were serious about improving public education, an army of ‘Rhetoric’ teachers would be dispatched.  But then, we might not be the pliable consumers on which the present markets depend.  Hmmm.  No wonder the Chamber of Commerce wants to destroy the Department of Education.

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By Shenonymous, April 20, 2011 at 3:12 am Link to this comment

Leefeller, April 19 3:17 pm-such an appropriate question! How
about indeed!?  The entire comment post is an astute observation.

Orbis Unum, April 18 2:56 am
Re: Shenonymous, April 18 at 2:30 am.
You State: “....I quite believe you about the effect of incendiary
innuendo, etc… “

You quite forgot with a stroke of dishonesty to finish my sentence…
”and its possible horrid logical conclusion that killed Dr. Tiller.”


Mack and John Best – Critical thinking is taught.  I know because I
teach it and I teach teachers to teach it at university level.  I also
know that it is taught in the middle school in my town as I have seen
the course texts lesson plans of the teachers.  But it is not sorted out
as a separate subject of instruction.  It is incorporated in all the lessons,
whether they are language arts, history, the natural or social sciences,
humanities classes, anything that could involve assessment and
evaluation of the content of the materials presented.  Vaguely
remembered is it being called rhetoric way back when. There is a
very fine Foundation for Critical Thinking http://www.criticalthinking.org
based in Tomales, California and founder is associated with Sonoma
State University of Northern California. 

What is strangely ironic is that Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush left
their Republican Party in very different conditions.  Reagan expanded
and strengthened the Republican Party and the conservative ideology,
whereas Bush left both the Party and conservatism in a quagmire that
began before he left office.

Even though Reagan signed a bill granting amnesty to millions of illegal
immigrants, that was something Bush never supported. In his 1984
campaign debate, Reagan said, ‘I believe in the idea of amnesty for
those who have put down roots and lived here, even though sometime
back they may have entered illegally.’”  Truth be known is that he was
leaned on by members of Congress from both parties to embrace some
form of amnesty.  It is my guess that those who used the cheap labor
immigrants provided were pressuring the members of Congress! 
At any rate, he came up with a plan that was very much like Bush’s
Comprehensive Immigration Reform, but involved far less illegal aliens. 

Tax cuts were both in the portfolio of both presidents.  Reagan’s 1981
and Bush’s massive tax cuts that we are now fighting to allow to sunset
and would allow the US fiscal problems be solved to a huge degree!
Nonetheless this made both of these guys very popular among the ones
who have all the wealth.  Although it is a fact that Reagan raised taxes
many times including the huge tax increase called the TEFRA tax.  He
also was responsible for signing the ERA into law otherwise known as
the tax reform Reagan had wanted for tens of years.  Called the second
New Deal by Newsweek, if that is any credible criticism.  But I think that
came from Reagan’s years as a liberal Democrat who actually supported
the New Deal before his change of life to a conservative. 

Reagan had fireside chats, made deals with what were called the boll-
weevil Democrats (Blue Dog conservative Democrats I think they are
now called) in the House, went to popularize him more than his already
celebrity aura politically.

Seems to me that Bush became very popular in the eyes of Ike’s
industrial complex by his massive spending policies. 

Both presidents glued themselves to religion thereby getting many in
the public domain to identify with them theologically.  That is a
powerful buddy maker.

I’m sure others will be able to come up with some reasons for their
popularity.  What are yours Anarcissie?

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John Best asks,

By John Best asks, "What IS Progress"?, April 19, 2011 at 1:10 pm Link to this comment

You know by now that when I say, “I have no problem with ‘fee speech’”, it is tongue in cheek, right?

The big geopolitical-military-industrial concerns you mention are certainly an unfortunate aspect of this, but for a minute, if I can bring the focus to the ‘damages’ we, the people are owed for this ‘dumbing down’ that various corporate interests have caused because they have actually been getting away with using the airwaves at rates far, far below what the free market should set. 

The original 1943 charter for the establishment of the FCC says it’s purpose is to “make available the programming to all people for a reasonable cost”, and that is paraphrased.  I argue that amounts to a contract, or at least an obligation the FCC has to We the People, through our government.  ‘So what?’ you say.  Well, it’s obvious enough that we’re getting dumber.  Look at test scores.  Look at college entrance exams of decades and centuries ago.  Look at how tough a time many, many high schoolers have getting a job.  I charge that the FCC has allowed the educational value, or the educational counter productivity of the programming to go to hell, and since the words ‘reasonable cost’ are mentioned, damnit, there’s been a degradation premitted, and I want a refund.  I want a big refund from advertisers on TV, radio, whatever, and it should go to offset the damage that the FCC has allowed to occur under it’s watch.  Is there a legal argument here?  I think it’s legitimate to get away from these ‘payoffs’ various corporations make by supporting public broadcasting and the like, and demand what the general public is owed: compensation in the form of re-building the public education system. 

Mack is right about humanity, and other basics in school, but ‘rhetoric’ is an R too.  That’s what they used to call ‘critical thinking’.  What was taught was how to spot bullshit.  Logical fallacies, http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/
were taught, logical debate.  All sorts of appeals to emotion and psychology were taught.  This was not too many years ago.  Now, you might or might not get this instruction in college, where you pay dearly! 

So, to me, a noteworthy fraction of Chris Hedges complaints about destroying our school system are traceable to selling off a public resource, the airwaves, at below fair market prices, to commercial interests, who, use the resource not only for profit, but to cause damage to the general level of intelligence and competitiveness of the average American. 

And, there have been damages to our values.  Was the previous generation (well two back or so) so willing to buy crap that would be known to be obsolete or used up so quickly?  And there are other values, no not religious junk, but things to do with valuing those who work hard, who study hard, etc.  We get ‘lifestyles of the rich and famous’, and all the crap that derived from it.  Valuing selfishness and consumerism.  Free speech, fine…...put on whatever damn idiotic programming you’d like, but pay for the damages, that’s what the free market requires.

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By Leefeller, April 19, 2011 at 11:17 am Link to this comment

While you are at it,...... how about making churches pay taxes for their free speech?  I happen to believe in the separation of religion and reality! Hell! It probaly wouldn’t matter anyway, the larger corporate churches would probably end up not paying any taxes like GE?

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John Best asks,

By John Best asks, "What IS Progress"?, April 19, 2011 at 10:54 am Link to this comment

Mack, I have no problem with ‘Fee speach’, if the morons who pollute our airwaves and cable channels would pay an appropriate fee for the damage they cause to the public mind.  Hell, they get the right to sell to us on those airwaves, and dumb us down at the same time with what is being passed off as ‘free speech’.  Make them pay, I say.  The privilege of having fairly exclusive right to control our public airwaves should be compensated by chipping in on public education at all levels.  How about that?

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John Best asks,

By John Best asks, "What IS Progress"?, April 19, 2011 at 8:39 am Link to this comment

Interesting…..I’ve been blocked from posting for the last 36 hours.  No explanation, just technical issues at the truthdig site.  When I tried to log on I received a message: “you are unauthorized to perform that action”. Very odd.

In any case, Shenonymous, I appreciate your continual objectivity.  There are many slippery slope situations once we step an inch toward any limitations in free speech.  It was with extreme trepidation that I eventually even considered the thought of trying to push some boundary of what free speech isn’t.

Thanks to the good people who contribute to wikipedia, there is a list of the various ‘fire in a theater’ types of arguments.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_in_the_United_States

We should perhaps at least better train our students to recognize logical fallacies, and bombast when they hear it.  I think this is a fundamental failing of the educational system.  A ‘good BS meter’ I call it.  Why are we replacing analysis of rhetoric, with Drivers Ed?  I might be conspiratorial and say a dumbed down population becomes a more manageable herd of consumers.  But it is probably not so insideous…...the dumbed down courses seem to get public support, and teachers/administrators go along with it disgusted.

OU, It is too bad OU is not a person of good faith and respectful of others.  It seems he/she has an attorneys intellect, and sadly, an aversion to using their gift toward non self-serving ends. You say, “Hopefully this answers your query and you comprehend its import!”  Yes I do, you are not interested in being constructive in a way that does not force others to surrender to your particular mode of control. Pity, I imagine that if you were of a mind to, you might refine and construct good arguments for the ‘disparity of free speech lessening the rights of We the People’ kernel.  But you choose to go another way….....

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By Anarcissie, April 18, 2011 at 9:21 pm Link to this comment

Whenever you all get done with your current fascination, I wouldn’t mind discussing the appeal of Dub and Ron.  I’ll check in every week or so.

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By Orbis Unum, April 17, 2011 at 10:56 pm Link to this comment

Re: Shenonymous, April 18 at 2:30 am.

You State: “....I quite believe you about the effect of incendiary innuendo, etc… “

Response: So are we to comprehend that you believe the jurisprudence of case law within the judicial system proffered, as you say, “innuendo” is not in fact concrete empirical evidence of both the U.S. Judicial dictum or either the record of the facts presented in relationship to both the national and international position of the U.S. Congressional Military Complex as presented???

We graciously extend our most precious personal regards to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

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By Shenonymous, April 17, 2011 at 10:30 pm Link to this comment

John Best you make some excellent points.  Perhaps I’ve tried too
hard to protect free speech for as a liberal I am often criticized as
among those who want to limit it.  An overreaction.  How awful to
find out one is not perfect!  Actually I do think to some degree there
is a line not to be crossed in speech, for the very same reasons you so
well articulated that I have not been able to.

I’ve never thought the equal time rule was authentic (and is it simply a
convention or really a rule?). It seemed to me to be just an artificial
architectonic of the news media to zoomzoom up their shows by
promising adversarial programming.  Bullcrap in my book.  Usually the
shows descend into the banal.  I always say let the competition go
straight to hell.  I call it giving them an Aristotelian efficient expedition.

At any rate, I quite believe you about the effect of incendiary innuendo
and its possible horrid logical conclusion that killed Dr. Tiller.  Such
perverse dereliction of a sick mind is occasionally persuaded to act
insanely.  This was also apparent in the shooting of Congresswoman
Giffords, and 18 others with 6 dying in Arizona by a demented zealot. 
Vitriolic dogma, or political rhetoric, is theorized as a factor in that
tragedy as well.  So yes, speech do have a deadly aspect.  Prego

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By Orbis Unum, April 17, 2011 at 10:28 pm Link to this comment

Re: John Best, April 18 at 1:50 am.

You State: “Orbus Unum, On April 18 at 12:21 am I think your citations make the case to dissuade one from insisting on ‘equal’ rights to free speech I indicated were absent in my last post.  But can/will you make the opposite case?  Will you make a case that the incendiary daily rantings of radio talk show hosts should be restricted on some grounds?  Thank You.”

Response: As to honor your inquiry properly, one must first define incendiary rantings!

But in our comprehension thereof, to reflect upon the idea of freedom of speech, begins from determining whether the exercise of the Science of Right Reason was expressed reasonably in the exercise of any speech!

And this can be reasonably accomplished via the totality of the evidenced proffered, from whatever evidence an individual uses during the exercise of such speech in reference thereto.

We believe as long as speech is not intended to incite destruction of private property or injure individuals unwarranted, is by our own conceptualization thereof, a just exercise of the freedom of speech.

As for any adjudication appertaining to the exercise of speech, such must be determined by the trier of both fact and law respective to either the individual in question or the speech exercised in question respective thereto.

But as to any justiciability of any triers of both fact and law can be determined, their Standing in relationship to the subject matter and/or any individual in question, must be determined in consideration as to whether just adjudication can be rendered for or against such speech and the individual concerned.

Failure to ascertain such predisposition of the forum setting, is a failure of joinder of the parties for just adjudication. Either by or for the Party’s “in” interest or “of” interest!

Hopefully this answers your query and you comprehend its import!


And as I’ve said repeatedly, such Standing to State a Claim for which Relief can be granted must be proceeded by supporting facts in the commencement of ratification thereof, with exemplary nexus giving rise to such considerations, to rightly do justice for all concerned!

On another note: we see that you’ve failed to counter our empirical evidence respective to the ongoing U.S. Congressional Military Complex indoctrination presented!

Why?????????????????

Do you think the citations given are of form of incendiary speech, which should be withheld from All Walks of Life?

We graciously extend our most precious personal regards to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

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By John Best asks, "What IS Progress"?, April 17, 2011 at 9:50 pm Link to this comment

Orbus Unum, On April 18 at 12:21 am I think your citations make the case to dissuade one from insisting on ‘equal’ rights to free speech I indicated were absent in my last post.  But can/will you make the opposite case?  Will you make a case that the incendiary daily rantings of radio talk show hosts should be restricted on some grounds?  Thank You.

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By Orbis Unum, April 17, 2011 at 8:21 pm Link to this comment

‘Our survey of the legal landscape as it existed in March 1989 indicates, that, in general, members of the public have no constitutional right to be protected by the State from harm inflicted by third parties.

Per - Fox v. Custis, 712 F.2d 84, 88 (4th Cir. 1983); Wells v. Walker , 852 F.2d 368, 370 (8th Cir. 1988), cert. denied, 489 U.S. 1012, 109 S.Ct. 1121, 103 L.Ed.2d 184 (1989); Ketchum v. Alameda County, 811 F.2d 1243, 1247 (9th Cir. 1987); Bowers v. DeVito, 686 F.2d 616, 618 (7th Cir. 1982).


Judge Posner aptly explained the reasoning behind this general principle aforementioned, when he stated in Bowers that:

    The Constitution is a charter of negative liberties; it tells the state to let “We the People of the United States” alone; it does not require their agency federal government or their state(s) to provide services, even so elementary a service as maintaining law and order….for those not a party to the contract (Constitution). Thus, because there is no constitutional duty to provide such protection for the Public at Large, {the state’s} failure to do so is not actionable under Title 42, section 1983, of the United States Code (U.S.C.). [emphasis added]
Per: Bowers, 686 F.2d at 618.

These abovementioned judicial dicta, support both the historical U.S. Congressional Record & U.S. Jurisprudence applicable thereto, as cited and given hereinbelow.

1.) “But indeed, no person has a right to complain, by suit in Court, on the ground of the Constitution. The Constitution, it is true, is a compact (contract), but he is not a party to it. The States are a party to it…” (emphasis added).

Per: Padelford, Fay & Co. vs. The Mayor and Alderman of the City of Savannah, 14 Ga. 438 (1854).

2.) “The ultimate ownership of all property is in the State; individual so-called “ownership” is only by virtue of Government, i.e., law, amounting to mere user; and use must be in accordance with law and subordinate to the necessities of the State.”

Per: U.S. 73rd Congress, 1st Session, Senate Document #43; SENATE RESOLUTION NO. 62 (Pg 9, Para 2) April 17, 1933.

3.) We “The People” do not include you and me.

Per: Barron vs. Mayor and City Council of Baltimore, 32 U.S. 243. 

This is what “We the People of the United States” calls “Equal Justice under the Law”...and certainly, this proves beyond a reasonable doubt, that every man, woman, or child is equal before their law! 

Since you have no agreement/contract with the Federal System of governments, the State, etc., or any such other planetary so-called social compact to bargain for your rights or to protect what you have been indoctrinated to believe as your rights, and no agreement with their court, how do you perceive or believe that you will obtain justice or a remedy in their courts? 

Consider the fact that the UNITED STATES failed to inform the UNITED NATION General Assembly of the abolition of the “Right to Petition” in 1948, when the U.N. General Assembly was discussing what Articles where to be included within the “Universal Declaration of Human Rights.”  If the UNITED STATES would not correct an unfounded and/or unknown point view held by the U.N. concerning the U.S. abolish-ment of the so-called Constitutional “Right to Petition,” why do you think they would inform you of a false viewpoint or assumption related thereto, in your public school indoctrination programming about the validity or legality of such rights?

We graciously extend our most precious personal regards to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

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By Leefeller, April 17, 2011 at 8:07 pm Link to this comment

Hey OU! I am going to find meself a non pedophile Catholic priest (if there is one) and ask him to write me some long boring soliloquies about “waiting for OU” in Latin, then I may throw them in circular file with my empty Tequila bottles!

As asked by OU:

“As for any right worthy of pursuit, such must be based on the efforts to sale oneself in pursuit thereof! Don’t you think? “

Basing pursuit as worthy or to degree of worth, right as to wrong, weather wit wit rain rain, most as some or maybe all efforts must or may be or not be based in efforts attempted as sales by pursuant thereof, based on such as oneself or others to wit as great prose of wit or witless and possible pursuits of jabbernacky, .....for may be based on pursuant me Humvee must be out of gas, me thinks!

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By Orbis Unum, April 17, 2011 at 7:56 pm Link to this comment

Re: Mack, April 17 at 11:25 pm.

You State: “You can’t imagine what it’s like every morning facing my keyboard with head bloodied but un-bowed.”

Response:  Mack…we’ve been around the Bush so to speak, on many different occasions, in respect to one or the others commentary. And as you know, our position has been posted throughout various artilces found within this forum. But you have never heard us pander or incite public rancor but reasonable consideration to approach the table to bargain for ones exercise of the self-evident principles for the exercise thereof!!!

My choice of evidence proffered herein below is very important why not to trust the Courts of Justice of the U.S. or it’s agencies thereof. So pay very close attention! PLEASE!

1.) Prosecutor may violate civil rights in initiating prosecution and presenting case.

Per - United States Supreme Court in Imbler v. Pachtmanz 424 U.S. 409 (1976)

2.) Immunity extends to all activities closely associated with litigation or potential litigation.

Per - Second Circuit Federal Court of Appeal in Davis v. Grusemever, 996 F.2d 617 (1993)

3.) Prosecutor may knowingly use false testimony and suppress evidence.                       

Per - United States Supreme Court in Imbler v. Pachtman, 424 U.S. 409 (1976)

4.) Prosecutor may file charges without any investigation.

Per - Eighth Circuit Federal Court of Appeal in Myers v. Morris, 810 F.2d 1337 (1986)

5.) Prosecutor may file charges outside of his jurisdiction.

Per - Eighth Circuit Federal Court of appeal in Myers v. Morris, 840 F.2d 1337 (1986)

6.) Prosecutor may knowingly offer perjured testimony.

Per - Ninth Circuit Federal Court of Appeal in Jones v. Shankland, 800 F.2d 1310 (1987)

7.) Prosecutor can suppress exculpatory evidence. (Exculpatory defined: Evidence showing one innocent)

Per - Fifth Circuit Federal Court of Appeal in Henzel v. Gertstein, 608 F.2d 654 (1979)

8.) Prosecutors are immune from lawsuit for conspiring with judges to determine outcome of   judicial proceedings.

Per - Ninth Circuit Federal Court of Appeal in Ashelman v. Pope, 793 E.2d 1072 (1986)

9.) Prosecutor may knowingly file charges against innocent persons for a crime that never occurred.

Per - Tenth Circuit Federal Court of Appeal in Norton v. Liddell, 620 F.2d 1375 (1980)

Even so, as I’ve said on many occasions, whether you appreciate our efforts we continue to proffer via the “Science of Right Reason” for your sanity, honor, and educational advancement towards freely chosen self-determination, the evidenced of those who have sacrificed for years to peel away programming of illusionist misrepresentation by social Role Models exposed, by offering the truth of the matter via the “4” declarations espoused by the S.E.A., published via the web links: http://seagov.info/index.html, available for those honestly looking for researching the truth, in the interest of Good Will with All Walks of Life seeking Universal Peace and solution oriented paradigms to the problems of local, national, and international systemic fraud via both Centers of Governance, Education, and Religion.

Or, does anyone have the cerebral guts to contradict these facts, via any posting empirical data to support such, which we continually await honorably any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise? We have by Proffering such evidence via the web site earlier aforementioned!

We graciously extend our most precious personal regards to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

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By Orbis Unum, April 17, 2011 at 7:13 pm Link to this comment

Re: Leefeller, April 17 at 10:50 pm.

You State: “I do not know how this free speech thing works, .....but I would suggest their is a world of difference between a free sales pitch the concept of free speech?”

Response: Obviously the inner workings of juris dictum are established via variation by agreement.

As for any right worthy of pursuit, such must be based on the efforts to sale oneself in pursuit thereof! Don’t you think?

As with anything worthy of endeavor, a price must be paid. Either in consideration thereof, or in some respect thereto, some equal exchange must be put forth and agreed upon to exercise the terms of such agreements, while keeping to the strict terms thereof, in the interest of maintaining comity between the parties thereof!

We graciously extend our most precious personal regards to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

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By Leefeller, April 17, 2011 at 6:50 pm Link to this comment

I do not know how this free speech thing works, .....but I would suggest their is a world of difference between a free sales pitch the concept of free speech?

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By Orbis Unum, April 17, 2011 at 6:41 pm Link to this comment

Isn’t it just simply amazing that the posters herein, are able to enjoy such jocularity at their own demise at the expense of any doer. Well, they must presume it’s better to be a doddler critic doomed, than ever pay the price to avoid subjugation or oblivion, rather than be counted among the doers.

If you who don’t know the difference, let us explain such in the words of Theodore Roosevelt, to wit:

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.” 

The global oligarchy only uses our efforts to justify their intent to continue their plot of total subjugation of humanity and the demise of those doddler critics unable to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, that they have the capability of exercising the Science of Right Reason!

I guess if you can’t get these doddler critics to question or deny our empirical evidence proffered, by their unwillingness to honorably dialog, truly exposes them for who they are and what intent they have within this forum. Then let the global oligarchy’s stones be thrown, until there exist none so unreasonable, as these doddler critics!

Some herein, ask why we care! Because the global oligarchy doesn’t! But because we do, we must be subjected to constant character assassination by the very doddler critics and people we care about!   

In support of our statements, let us state beyond a reasonable doubt, that what the former comedian “George Carlin” (just type in Youtube.com’s search bar “The America Dream” or “The Owners of America,” etc.) stated on many occasions’ throughout his illustrious career, concerning the absolute ignorance and stupidity of these doddler critics, is without question a proven fact by us!

Even so, as I’ve said on many occasions, whether you appreciate our efforts we continue to proffer via the “Science of Right Reason” for your sanity, honor, and educational advancement towards freely chosen self-determination, the evidenced of those who have sacrificed for years to peel away programming of illusionist misrepresentation by social Role Models exposed, by offering the truth of the matter via the “4” declarations espoused by the S.E.A., published via the web links: http://seagov.info/index.html, available for those honestly looking for researching the truth, in the interest of Good Will with All Walks of Life seeking Universal Peace and solution oriented paradigms to the problems of local, national, and international systemic fraud via both Centers of Governance, Education, and Religion.

Or, does anyone have the cerebral guts to contradict these facts, via any posting empirical data to support such, which we continually await honorably any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise? We have by Proffering such evidence via the web site earlier aforementioned!

We graciously extend our most precious personal regards to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

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By radson, April 17, 2011 at 5:49 pm Link to this comment

Shen:Welcome to the warped world of Orbit Unit aka Orbis .Somehow I get the impression that ‘Its’ a reincarnation of Dabya after having been water-boarded two hundred times.If only Orbit could find the missing transponder then maybe the kling-ons (as in those little balls )that get stuck -well you no where ,could beam him back aboard .The last reported
position of his ship the SS Moon Moron was circling
Uranus.

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By Orbis Unum, April 17, 2011 at 5:25 pm Link to this comment

Re: Mack, April 17 at 9:06 pm.

You State: “Re: “perfidious pettifoggery pandered..”

A ha!  A simple exercise I used to use to help train middle schoolers to avoid writing weak verbs.”

Response: Now, now!!! Don’t get us started again!

But as to your other commentary, we couldn’t agree more!

We graciously extend our most precious personal regards to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

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By Orbis Unum, April 17, 2011 at 4:24 pm Link to this comment

As it relates to our efforts to continuously speak out against the perfidious pettifoggery pandered herein, as if it were the product of higher learning, has only been executed for those innocent readers herein, who may not be as brainwashed. Against the backdrop of those party the U.S. Congressional Military Complex parading around herein, as if concerned about the demise of the so-called common good! NOT!!!

The non-existent efforts by both columnists and posters herein, to honorably or honestly challenge the empirical evidence we’ve proffered for the benefit of preserving those precious ideologies for which the Declaration of Independence of the once sovereign States (1776) gave to preserve such to preserve as steppingstones to freedom, liberty, property, and the pursuit of happiness for all those thereafter, shows just how far from such ideologies the main stream media and its purported Centers of Governance, Education, and Religion have fallen into subjugation to those who are dedicated to their subjugation! See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones

More evidence of the dumbing down and brainwashing and of the people!

And, if the imbecilic morons herein, think they can dissuade us from continuing to act or care about the attempt and total demise of everyone, “Think again!”

The global oligarchy only uses our efforts to justify their intent to continue their plot of total subjugation of humanity and the demise of those unable to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, that they have the capability of exercising the Science of Right Reason!

I guess if you can’t get them to question or deny the empirical evidence proffered, by their unwillingness to honorably dialog, truly exposes them for who they are and what intent they have within this forum. Then let the global oligarchies stones be thrown, until there exist none so unreasonable!

You ask why we care! Because the global oligarchy doesn’t! But because we do, we must be subjected to constant character assassination by the very people we care about!   

In support of our statements, let us state beyond a reasonable doubt, that what the former comedian “George Carlin” (just type in Youtube.com’s search bar “The America Dream” or “The Owners of America,” etc.) stated on many occasions’ throughout his illustrious career, concerning the absolute ignorance and stupidity of people, is without question a proven fact by us!

Even so, as I’ve said on many occasions, whether you appreciate our efforts we continue to proffer via the “Science of Right Reason” for your sanity, honor, and educational advancement towards freely chosen self-determination, the evidenced of those who have sacrificed for years to peel away programming of illusionist misrepresentation by social Role Models exposed, by offering the truth of the matter via the “4” declarations espoused by the S.E.A., published via the web links: http://seagov.info/index.html, available for those honestly looking for researching the truth, in the interest of Good Will with All Walks of Life seeking Universal Peace and solution oriented paradigms to the problems of local, national, and international systemic fraud via both Centers of Governance, Education, and Religion.

Or, does anyone have the cerebral guts to contradict these facts, via any posting empirical data to support such, which we continually await honorably any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise? We have by Proffering such evidence via the web site earlier aforementioned!

We graciously extend our most precious personal regards to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

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By Orbis Unum, April 17, 2011 at 3:45 pm Link to this comment

Re: Shenonymous, April 17 at 7:30 pm.

You State: “By comparison if I am a moron, and I probably am, duh…..you can’t compete to be even half a moron because you show yourself to be a cretin.”

Response: At least you’ve be honest in respect to your incompetence to hold reasonable dialog by presenting any empirical evidence contrary to what’s been presented honorable or honestly to prove your perfection condition for subjugation!
And as far as any competition appertaining to moronic status, you win hands down! No doubt about that!

But your attempt to slander our efforts as a moron fail to dissuade anyone exercising the Science of Right Reason!

For an example:

In support of our statements, let us state beyond a reasonable doubt, that what the former comedian “George Carlin” (just type in Youtube.com’s search bar “The America Dream” or “The Owners of America,” etc.) stated on many occasions’ throughout his illustrious career, concerning the absolute ignorance and stupidity of people, is without question a proven fact by us!

Even so, as I’ve said on many occasions, whether you appreciate our efforts we continue to proffer via the “Science of Right Reason” for your sanity, honor, and educational advancement towards freely chosen self-determination, the evidenced of those who have sacrificed for years to peel away programming of illusionist misrepresentation by social Role Models exposed, by offering the truth of the matter via the “4” declarations espoused by the S.E.A., published via the web links: http://seagov.info/index.html, available for those honestly looking for researching the truth, in the interest of Good Will with All Walks of Life seeking Universal Peace and solution oriented paradigms to the problems of local, national, and international systemic fraud via both Centers of Governance, Education, and Religion.

Or, does anyone have the cerebral guts to contradict these facts, via any posting empirical data to support such, which we continually await honorably any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise? We have by Proffering such evidence via the web site earlier aforementioned!

We graciously extend our most precious personal regards to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

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By Byard Pidgeon, April 17, 2011 at 3:39 pm Link to this comment

Orbus, will you take the hint, and go somewhere else to bluster and bore
people with your idiot spew?
Maybe the County Hospital Emergency Room entrance? How about the
Police or Sheriff’s office? Or best of all, balancing on a very high bridge
railing?

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By John Best asks, "What IS Progress"?, April 17, 2011 at 3:36 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous / Byard,
OT alert: While ‘bunkum trolls’ I fear must be tolerated (and identified then ignored), there may be something to be said for what constitutes legitimate speech and where the line should be in creating a public hazard.  The old shouting fire in a crowded theater argument, applied to incendiary innuendo which arguably may have lead to the deat of George Tiller, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Tiller, worshipers at a Unitarian church in Knoxville, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knoxville_Unitarian_Universalist_church_shooting various abortion clinic bombings, and other less aggressive general hostilities. 

Some of these radio personalities have far, far more free speech than you or I, and I submit the differential in ability to ‘speak freely’ endows some citizens with more ‘rights’ than others.  This does not square with the intent of the constitution to provide equal access to the government (and rights which are regulated by it) by all citizens. 

So, though I may, or may not support the right to blather on about any incendiary topic and call it speech, I certainly do think that when individuals are granted right to the public airwaves, that we’ve slowly condeeded to commercial interests which allow these individuals to use a public resource against the ‘common good’.  They should be held to a higher standard of debate, investigation, fact checking, conclusion drawing, and general accountability. 

On this topic, I do not think it at all adequate to give ‘both sides’ equal time.  This is equivalent to listening to two separate psychotics, which is certainly not equivalent to listening to two reasonable, and well substantiated opinions. 

If one listens to the radio out in the heartland and looks at the content contrasted against the attitudes than have been cultivated, and the susceptibilities of the extremes to be incited to various levels of blatantly stupid action, one is bound to be concerned, especially in light of other factors discussed in these forums. 

And to relate this ‘differential of rights’ to free speech to the original topic of this post, the destruction of the US education system.  Certainly, political support for the accelerated destruction, (or lack of sensible re-design) of the educational system can be in significant part attributed to the disparity in rights of free speech enjoyed by certain radio personalities, and not enjoyed by the “common opinion”.  And brief opportunities to attain a sliver of edited and limited time, in face of a daily barrage of relentless dogma, does not constitute any sort of equalizing agent.

I think this topic (so-called free speech in the commercial media) is a significant recent development in the on-going bastardization of the ‘free press’, and is far, far more corrosive to the common good than is publicized.

In conclusion, please consider revisiting your position on ‘free’ speech.  Grazie.

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By Shenonymous, April 17, 2011 at 3:30 pm Link to this comment

You don’t even rate pathetic Orbus. So is your occult SEA whose
members are complete groggy idiots.  By comparison if I am a moron,
and I probably am, duh…..you can’t compete to be even half a moron
because you show yourself to be a cretin.  Bloat off as much as you
want, you are the forum clown.

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By Orbis Unum, April 17, 2011 at 3:07 pm Link to this comment

Re: Shenonymous, April 17 at 6:44 pm.

You State: “I do hold the 1st Amendment as sacrosanct.”

Response:  We proffer the fact that in December of 2004 the U.S. Department of Justice for United States, et al. (Defendant), responded to a brief filed by We the People Foundation, Inc. et all (Plaintiffs)in the Distr. Crt. of D.C., Case No. 1:04-cv-01211 EGS.

Within the DOJ’s reply brief for Motion to Dismiss Amended Complaint by Plaintiffs’, DOJ revealed that, e.g., “NOTHING IN THE CONSTITUTION REQUIRES THE DEFENDANT TO ‘ADEQUATELY RESPOND’ TO PLAINTIFFS’ CORRESPONDENCE by revealing that “Plaintiffs’ complaint purportedly arises from the mailing of approximately 1,600 so-called ‘petition for redress of grievances’ to each the President of the United States, the Secretary of the Treasury, the Commissioner of Internal Revenue, the Attorney General, the United States Congress, the Speaker of the House of Representatives, and the Senate Majority Leader. These “petitions” relate primarily to the constitutionality and legality of the federal income tax, but also to “the war powers clauses of the constitution and the Iraqi Resolution, the money clauses of the constitution and the federal reserve system and the ‘privacy’ clauses of the constitution and the USA Patriot Act,” and that in the Civil War era, however Congress enacted rules abolishing the duty to respond, a change later sanctioned by the U.S. Supreme Court, e.g., “petitioners’ have no constitutional right to force the government to listen to their views,” Minnesota State Board vs Knight, 465 U.S. 271, 283 (1984).

So, moron do you still believe any presumed U.S. Constitutional 1st Article of Amendment Right?

Probably so because I know you’re a moron. And if this is not enough for you to discern your lack of Standing to State a Claim for which relief can be granted or question the Public Debt per Article of Amendment 14, Section 4, then avail yourself of the further evidence of the programming to continue to deceive you and your children’s children into utter subjugation, provided infra.

In support of our statements, let us state beyond a reasonable doubt, that what the former comedian “George Carlin” (just type in Youtube.com’s search bar “The America Dream” or “The Owners of America,” etc.) stated on many occasions’ throughout his illustrious career, concerning the absolute ignorance and stupidity of people, is without question a proven fact by us!

Even so, whether you appreciate our efforts we continue to proffer via the “Science of Right Reason” for your sanity, honor, and educational advancement towards freely chosen self-determination, the evidenced of those who have sacrificed for years to peel away programming of illusionist misrepresentation by social Role Models exposed, by offering the truth of the matter via the “4” declarations espoused by the S.E.A., published via the web links: http://seagov.info/index.html, available for those honestly looking for researching the truth, in the interest of Good Will with All Walks of Life seeking Universal Peace and solution oriented paradigms to the problems of local, national, and international systemic fraud via both Centers of Governance, Education, and Religion.

Or, does anyone have the cerebral guts to contradict these facts, via any posting empirical data to support such, which we continually await honorably any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise? We have by Proffering such evidence via the web site earlier aforementioned!

We graciously extend our most precious personal regards to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

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By Shenonymous, April 17, 2011 at 3:03 pm Link to this comment

Orbis Boringly unendingum – ” Whatever you may purportedly
think about the efforts of others to express their concern as those
which are presented with any documentary evidence in support of
those ideologies or concerns, doesn’t give anyone license to be an
asshole…ASSHOLE!”
  I suggest then that you stop being the
asshole you show yourself to be.  Thus sayeth the slithering vile
Shenonymous with her vile swill.  Your ridiculous act of making the
really wonderful and insightful George Carlin into a deity of your
own, would spin his head were he standing before you.  Your burbling
sophistry dares to defile his uncanny intelligence and you pale in his
shadow.  Good grief man, if you are human, get a grip.

Who cares what I think?  Why I wouldn’t care if no one did!  But you
obviously do or you would not have responded!  You are the CLASSIC
ASSHOLE!  Notice the two words have the word ASS in them.

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By Shenonymous, April 17, 2011 at 2:44 pm Link to this comment

Thank you Byard Pidgeon for the alert.  While I agree with the
substance of what you say, I do hold the 1st Amendment as
sacrosanct.  With much excoriation I once received for championing
the extremist, Michael Savage’s right to speak when he was denied
entry into England because of his racist remarks on his radio show,
I wasn’t defending what he said, as that is something I never would
do, but his right to say it.  I still believe while we are required to
tolerate the bad because of the freedom of speech if we want to have
that freedom ourselves, we can criticize the speakers of evil to the
same degree they spout it.  I often make long posts myself, I can
hardly criticize others for doing that.


Good advice Anarcissie, ” the first step would be to separate out the
whining of professional intellectuals about their not receiving the
power, wealth and social status they deserve. “
Only I would change
the last couple of words to “they think they deserve.” 

A very intricate stageplay.  My analysis is a bit on the long side but I’ve
made it as concise as I was able. 
1.
Why did George W. Bush appeal to enough voters to get elected? There
is no simple answer.  He won because of help from the self-righteous
right side of the Supreme Court, first of all, as the 2000 vote was so
close that Florida was decidedly the key 5 electoral votes to give him
the win.  Next, at the time of his first election, Evangelicals were in full
political swing and through the religious constituency managed to get
their membership to swing with the Bush gospel.  I vividly recall
George’s artificial humility in finding GOD.  God began to “speak” to
him.  The quasi religious Americans fell to their knees, just as the manic
Catholics would climb in contrition on their knees 29 cement steps up
to the bosom of God.

He won before the 9/11 terrorist debacle.  For the Swift Boat campaign,
people did not trust John Kerry, nor for his halting style of campaign-
ing.  The Republicans used the abortion issue to win the votes of the
religious believers that life begins at conception, instead of seeing
George as a conveniently reformed drunk who consistently uttered
vacant and inane banalities.  He spoke the language of the many (an
argument I’ve given on another forum is that using the common
language, that I call the lingua franca, goes a long way through the
device of assimilation, of winning the local yokels’ votes.) Regardless
of coming from a very wealthy family, George’s homilies gave him the
aura of being part of the ordinary population, that population that did
not have horse ranches, or owned football teams, and were not
governors of red states.  An interesting set of phenomena to get
ordinary people to vote against their own economic self interests. 
A trick of the conjurer is to fool all of the people some of the time. 
Only when it crucially counts, then let the masses be damned! 
Distraction on the issues was the talent of the Right Wing graphic
designers and admen.  Using incendiary issues like immigration,
prayer in the schools, gay marriage are almost incurable sores the
Republicans cause and know precisely how to exploit.  They know how
to get the visceral intestines to rule over the rational mind.  Gut over
head is the strategy.  We intellectuals know it!  ha!  The insanity of the
current debates over such items as abortion, food for the poor, medical
care for the underprivileged, bad infrastructure, and an unhealthily
funded education system in this country, shows their program is at
least consistent.

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By Orbis Unum, April 17, 2011 at 2:42 pm Link to this comment

Re: Shenonymous, April 17 at 6:29 pm.

You State: “Why I think George W had voter appeal.”

Response: YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING US!!!!

Who gives a shit what you brainless morons think!

Oh, forgive me, we been rude to morons parading around as if competent! NOT!!!! The only people interest in this drivel are those you freely allow to kick your ass in to oblivion.

So, don’t even presume to enter-tain us with your BS respective to past perpetrators of your own acceptance and demise, for which your perfect condition justifies!

In support of our statements, let us state beyond a reasonable doubt, that what the former comedian “George Carlin” (just type in Youtube.com’s search bar “The America Dream” or “The Owners of America,” etc.) stated on many occasions’ throughout his illustrious career, concerning the absolute ignorance and stupidity of people, is without question a proven fact by us!

Even so, as I’ve said on many occasions, whether you appreciate our efforts we continue to proffer via the “Science of Right Reason” for your sanity, honor, and educational advancement towards freely chosen self-determination, the evidenced of those who have sacrificed for years to peel away programming of illusionist misrepresentation by social Role Models exposed, by offering the truth of the matter via the “4” declarations espoused by the S.E.A., published via the web links: http://seagov.info/index.html, available for those honestly looking for researching the truth, in the interest of Good Will with All Walks of Life seeking Universal Peace and solution oriented paradigms to the problems of local, national, and international systemic fraud via both Centers of Governance, Education, and Religion.

Or, does anyone have the cerebral guts to contradict these facts, via any posting empirical data to support such, which we continually await honorably any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise? We have by Proffering such evidence via the web site earlier aforementioned!

We graciously extend our most precious personal regards to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

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By Shenonymous, April 17, 2011 at 2:42 pm Link to this comment

2.  Why I think George W appealed to voters.
We who are conscious all know that delegating rights to special
interest groups is unhealthy for this country.  Reaganomics has
been devastating to the American people.  It raised the cost of
living and it has climbed ever since, gave tax breaks to the wealthy
and corporate world, shored up the gun laws, tried to coerce more
religious prayer in schools to indoctrinate the minds of those who
do not believe and deepen the dogma of those who do.  Reagan
taught American to hate their government, and to not pay taxes to
help pay for the equalizing the playing field between the poor and
the rich. 

A very penetrating report from Portland Week news is a profound
indictment of what the Republicans have done in the last 20 or so
years.  I advise all who are alert to read:
http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-17350-9_things_the_rich_dont_want_you_to_know_about_taxes.html

So my thesis is that the mind of the American voters was already
primed for a vote for GWB when he came tripping in, on the heels
mind you of his father, but we must remember the father did not
win a second term.  The public was cleverly prepared by preliminary
formulation by the Right-Wing media authorities, making gurus out
of themselves, people like Ari Fleisher, Karl Rove, Fox News, et al. 
Playing into the Southern bigot strategy nullified the black vote where
Bush got only 8% of the black vote.

In 2004, Kerry strategists misread what they thought predicted voters
would hold incumbent President George W. Bush responsible for a
decline in their personal economic well-being and for forcing the
country into a malintentional war.  Assuming there is a rational voter is
a fatal mistake.  The pocket-book theory usually is a prediction that
voters would vote based on the impact a candidate would have on their
liquid funds.  and pocket-book strategy has a high attraction for
academics.  What more does a candidate want?  A 1991 Sigelman,
Sigelman, and Bullock study showed that “Pocketbook voting was
very much in evidence in a factorial survey— extraordinarily in evidence,
when it is considered that our experimental subjects were given only
hypothetical economic motivations to vote for one candidate or the
other.”  This issue is prevalent in the current Republican strategy to
win the popular vote.  That is unless other issues override or
transcends the pocketbook!  However, combining the pocketbook with
ersatz religious-based issues like abortion and gay marriage is a
powerful vote-getting tool. It is pure demagoguery.

We have to ask why in the face of the fact that voters with lower
incomes experienced a general decline in economic well-being during
Bush’s first term?  In line with the inverse rationale, ceteris paribus, as
a voter’s income goes down, they would be marginally more likely to
vote for Kerr, that is, assuming that voters are rational agents with
perfect information.  While there may be some effect in the final analysis,
third-party candidates likely have minimal influence on the overall picture
of a Bush appeal. 

Variables that explain the numerous influences that affect vote choice
in presidential elections include a proxy for economic well-being,
which in turn is multipart including not the least household income. 
Another variable is also not to be ignored, the African American vote
who are traditionally liberal and usually vote as a block.  And of course,
along ethnic lines, the Hispanic-American vote is important and is
becoming much more important as we breathe.  One analyst did not
forget the Asian-American vote factor theorizing that vote would go to
Kerry as well as the previously mentioned ethnic-line vote.

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By Shenonymous, April 17, 2011 at 2:29 pm Link to this comment

3.  Why I think George W had voter appeal.
A political ideology of the voters is another not minimum variable
but a large factor that scores for candidates.  Rating a politician’s
Congressional votes or for one not serving in Congress, their
putative would-vote quotient, casts a particular hue on economic,
social, and foreign policies. Without minimizing the effect of the
religiosity of a population, the vast majority of voters perceived
Kerry to be the more liberal candidate, and Bush to be the more
conservative. One would expect that as the ideology variable increased
the percentage of the two-party vote Kerry would have also increased! 
It seems to me that religion remains surreptitiously under the surface
until a politician magnifies the issue of God’s will. Then the religious
affectations are perked up and ears attentive. This issue most definitely
increased George’s appeal.  Regional differences can also be a factor in
the way a state’s electoral votes go.  Sometimes this variable cancels
each other out.  But the regional genus of cultural conservatism or
liberalism could tip the scale in a close race.  In depth studies of this
factor have been made and I won’t cover it here except for my cursory
remark.  My final factor would have to go to the gender question and
which candidate appeals more to women or to men which can along
with the race cards mitigate the pocketbook factor.

It should be understood that every presidential election features unique
candidates with their own set of personal qualities. Any effort to apply
criteria for voter results should be made with caution, as they are
dependent on the unique qualifications each candidate.  One candidate
may merely be the preferable of the two not the precise choice one
would have received had there been another candidate in opposition. 
The fact that one candidate’s architects for election outdoes another is
a huge ingredient, as well as the emotional feeling of a nation at the
time of the election which could change from the beginning of
campaigns that lasts at least a year before elections.  Mean, dirty, and
low-down tactics often build an entire strategy with no positive plan at
all as we see coming from the Republicans until they were forced to
come up with a plan, and thus when they did we clearly see how they
intend to decimate the American middle class with their cut spending
for social programs and cut taxes for the rich.

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By Orbis Unum, April 17, 2011 at 2:29 pm Link to this comment

Re: Shenonymous, April 17 at 5:21 pm.

You State: “It is a text that ironically is itself
an instrument of intentional brainwashing hoping those who don’t have a critical brain will not notice! It is another Bircher-style text of over 200 pages of extreme-right-wing horseshit!”

Response: Whatever you may purportedly think about the efforts of others to express their concern as those which are presented with any documentary evidence in support of those ideologies or concerns, doesn’t give anyone license to be an asshole…ASSHOLE!

Let us show you they way to the door of the cesspool you most differently slither from, with the most humble hope that further wallowing therein, you may choose to be content with yourself by drinking the swill of your own vile nature!

But otherwise, let us not waste the opportunity to instruct from the raised conscientiousness of those seeking the Science of Right Reason. In the most humble attempt to enlighten those seeking to make sense of their obvious demise being orchestrated by either known or unknown perpetrators!

In support of our statements, let us state beyond a reasonable doubt, that what the former comedian “George Carlin” (just type in Youtube.com’s search bar “The America Dream” or “The Owners of America,” etc.) stated on many occasions’ throughout his illustrious career, concerning the absolute ignorance and stupidity of people, is without question a proven fact by us!

Even so, as I’ve said on many occasions, whether you appreciate our efforts we continue to proffer via the “Science of Right Reason” for your sanity, honor, and educational advancement towards freely chosen self-determination, the evidenced of those who have sacrificed for years to peel away programming of illusionist misrepresentation by social Role Models exposed, by offering the truth of the matter via the “4” declarations espoused by the S.E.A., published via the web links: http://seagov.info/index.html, available for those honestly looking for researching the truth, in the interest of Good Will with All Walks of Life seeking Universal Peace and solution oriented paradigms to the problems of local, national, and international systemic fraud via both Centers of Governance, Education, and Religion.

Or, does anyone have the cerebral guts to contradict these facts, via any posting empirical data to support such, which we continually await honorably any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise? We have by Proffering such evidence via the web site earlier aforementioned!

We graciously extend our most precious personal regards to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

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By Byard Pidgeon, April 17, 2011 at 1:45 pm Link to this comment

Hey, Shenonymous…one of the annoyances of the First Amendment is the
barrage of garbage from the Trolls who tend to infest sites like Truthdig.
They stand, ever at the ready, shovels loaded with crap, poised to sling it
at anyone who doesn’t cleave to their narrow views.
They take up a lot of space that could be used productively.

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By Shenonymous, April 17, 2011 at 1:21 pm Link to this comment

Yeah, first to be noticed at the website is the perennial deliberate
dumbing down of amerika, is the blitzkrieg to buy buy buy the
book book book! It was purposefully planned propaganda to offer
it as a pdf online.  A good way to get the word out!  Yeah I can
see exactly how Americans are intentionally dumbed down by the
chronic conservative assault on American liberal values. Their brains
are anesthetized by incessant conservative-values advertising. 

Ashbrook, the ultra conservative Republican who ran and ranted
against Nixon thought to have abandoned conservative principles,
and to whom the book is dedicated is most troublesome from the
pages right after the books cover!  The only ones who commit treason
are those Republicans who betray the American people of the middle
and poor class.  The majority, that is!  It is a text that ironically is itself
an instrument of intentional brainwashing hoping those who don’t have
a critical brain will not notice! It is another Bircher-style text of over
200 pages of extreme-right-wing horseshit!

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By Orbis Unum, April 17, 2011 at 12:36 pm Link to this comment

Re: .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address), April 17 at 3:09 pm.

You State: “The destruction of the educational system has been 100years in the making.  The aggregated information is here at the PDF down load ( it’s free)  follow the trail it has followed and see for your self with your own research what has happened.  To make it the fault of Corporatism is at best a smokescreen to hide the real perpetrators.

http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/pages/order.htm  The pdf is at the bottom of the page.”

Response: We wish to thank you for your research supporting such premises as stated. We’ve had such material in our possession for many years now. Such source material only confirms that the perpetrators of the demise of a once intellectual advanced society has been manipulated for a very, very long time. But getting others to read or hold dialogue in respect to any empirical evidence in support thereof, is indicative of the success of such perpetrators scheme and artifice to accomplish the end game for their overall ideologies! See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones

In support of our statements, let us state beyond a reasonable doubt, that what the former comedian “George Carlin” (just type in Youtube.com’s search bar “The America Dream” or “The Owners of America,” etc.) stated on many occasions’ throughout his illustrious career, concerning the absolute ignorance and stupidity of people, is without question a proven fact by us!

Even so, as I’ve said on many occasions, whether you appreciate our efforts we continue to proffer via the “Science of Right Reason” for your sanity, honor, and educational advancement towards freely chosen self-determination, the evidenced of those who have sacrificed for years to peel away programming of illusionist misrepresentation by social Role Models exposed, by offering the truth of the matter via the “4” declarations espoused by the S.E.A., published via the web links: http://seagov.info/index.html, available for those honestly looking for researching the truth, in the interest of Good Will with All Walks of Life seeking Universal Peace and solution oriented paradigms to the problems of local, national, and international systemic fraud via both Centers of Governance, Education, and Religion.

Or, does anyone herein, have the guts to contradict these facts with empirical evidence, via any posting data to support such, which we continually await honorably any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise? We have by Proffering such evidence via the web site earlier aforementioned?!

To all seeking the just rewards and dignity in the service of truth above all, by an honorable willingness to test all things, even though sometimes it’s hard to face such truth through the eyes of false programming, designed to blind you into unknowing acceptance of subjugation, we graciously extend our most precious personal regards to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

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By Anarcissie, April 17, 2011 at 11:16 am Link to this comment

If you don’t like someone’s messages, I’d suggest ignoring them rather than complaining about them, at least after the first go-‘round does not lead to an improvement.

On the subject of the admiration or worship of ignorance and stupidity, one might want to identify what’s going on more accurately than is the custom.  While Americans do not in general like professional intellectuals, they do seem to admire knowledge and mental ability.  So I think the first step would be to separate out the whining of professional intellectuals about their not receiving the power, wealth and social status they deserve.  Class struggle suffices to explain both sides of that argument.  I’m interested in why apparent numbskulls like George W. Bush proved popular enough to get elected president.  There were plenty of non-intellectuals competing with him, but he seemed to lead the pack in numbness of skull, and this seemed to help his political fortunes.  Any ideas?  Experiences?  Dare I ask, research?

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By longun45@yahoo.com, April 17, 2011 at 11:09 am Link to this comment

The destruction of the educational system has been 100years in the making.  The aggregated information is here at the PDF down load ( it’s free)  follow the trail it has followed and see for your self with your own research what has happened.  To make it the fault of Corporatism is at best a smokescreen to hide the real perpetrators.

http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/pages/order.htm  The pdf is at the bottom of the page.

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By Shenonymous, April 17, 2011 at 9:04 am Link to this comment

“It’s pseudo-intellectual, pseudo-philosophical gobbledygook filled
with made-up words that sound like they should be meaningful. Waste
of time.”
  It is the teenager’s mentality!  Gawd-awful. But then there
are Republicans who babble on and on and on whose logic uses made-
up premises as well.

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By Leefeller, April 17, 2011 at 7:13 am Link to this comment

Seems some people are always selling something, ....and I make it a point to always not be buying!

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By Inherit The Wind, April 17, 2011 at 7:04 am Link to this comment

Leefeller, April 17 at 10:30 am Link to this comment

ITW

In the computer game Mass Effect their is an alien proselytizer, who humbly talks in drawn out sentences very similar to what seems to be going on here, often using the third person we! In the game the run on sentences are in dialog so seem amusing,.... but can become annoying after a short time.
*********************

Lee, I looked at the website he keeps citing.  It’s pseudo-intellectual, pseudo-philosophical gobbledygook filled with made-up words that sound like they should be meaningful.  Waste of time.

Time to tune this guy out and just start skipping his posts till he flames out, like they always do.

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By Leefeller, April 17, 2011 at 6:30 am Link to this comment

ITW

In the computer game Mass Effect their is an alien proselytizer, who humbly talks in drawn out sentences very similar to what seems to be going on here, often using the third person we! In the game the run on sentences are in dialog so seem amusing,.... but can become annoying after a short time.

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By Roxanna Marinak, April 17, 2011 at 1:11 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Thank you Chris
You are one of my absolute favorite journalist with your poignant observation and often cutting to the core of where humanity is….

Your truth goes way beyond just reporting of facts, Thank You…

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By Orbis Unum, April 16, 2011 at 11:56 pm Link to this comment

Re: Inherit The Wind, April 17 at 3:10 am.

You State: “Oh, I get it. Orbis Unum is a religious proselytizer for the “Sovereign Earth Alliance” (SEA), the poses its manifesto in made-up gibberish words and run-on sentences, designed to make you feel stupid for not understanding them and their oblique references. “manifestum” is not in MY Merriam Webster Dictionary.

Sounds suspiciously like the made up language and misuse of words the Church of Scientology likes.  (They use “technology” for things that normally are defined as “methodology” as an example).”

Response: We have never espouse any religious affiliation. Rather, we have emphatically denied such overtures! See our comments posted herein on: April 14 at 9:28 pm Link to this comment in support hereof!!!

As for any reference to commentary related to “manifestum,” please see: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/manifestum.

You State: “Somehow, OU, I don’t think “the right to clog everyone else’s bandwidth” is exactly covered under the right to freedom of speech.”

Response: Isn’t it you who keep claiming the loss of such rights? And now you presumably deem yourself, suitable to judge our rights, in respect to the uses thereof!!!!

As far as what may appear as made-up gibberish words and run-on sentences, designed to make you feel stupid for not understanding them and their oblique references, we can only humbly apologize for our limited ability to communicate with the various levels of intelligentsia found herein.

We neither wish ill up anyone for they own advancement, in respect towards self-determination therein, or thereto, whatever the case may be, or their feelings directed toward our humbly attempt to express what we deem expeditiously important to consider their perfection condition, which appears to us factually, heading long and hard to ward oblivion, when time is of the essence for All Walks of Life, who wish to rise to the occasion with evidence predicated upon the Science of Right Reason, to avoid such long dark night without comprehensive knowledge applicable thereto! 

In support of our statements, let us state beyond a reasonable doubt, that what the former comedian “George Carlin” (just type in Youtube.com’s search bar “The America Dream” or “The Owners of America,” etc.) stated on many occasions’ throughout his illustrious career, concerning the absolute ignorance and stupidity of people, is without question a proven fact by us!

Even so, as I’ve said on many occasions, whether you appreciate our efforts we continue to proffer via the “Science of Right Reason” for your sanity, honor, and educational advancement towards freely chosen self-determination, the evidenced of those who have sacrificed for years to peel away programming of illusionist misrepresentation by social Role Models exposed, by offering the truth of the matter via the “4” declarations espoused by the S.E.A., published via the web links: http://seagov.info/index.html, available for those honestly looking for researching the truth, in the interest of Good Will with All Walks of Life seeking Universal Peace and solution oriented paradigms to the problems of local, national, and international systemic fraud via both Centers of Governance, Education, and Religion.

Or, doesn’t anyone have the cerebral guts to contradict these facts, via any posting empirical data to support such, which we continually await honorably any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise? We have by Proffering such evidence via the web site earlier aforementioned!

We graciously extend our most precious personal regards to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

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By Inherit The Wind, April 16, 2011 at 11:10 pm Link to this comment

Oh, I get it.
Orbis Unum is a religious proselytizer for the “Sovereign Earth Alliance” (SEA), the poses its manifesto in made-up gibberish words and run-on sentences, designed to make you feel stupid for not understanding them and their oblique references. “manifestum” is not in MY Merriam Webster Dictionary.

Sounds suspiciously like the made up language and misuse of words the Church of Scientology likes.  (They use “technology” for things that normally are defined as “methodology” as an example).

Somehow, OU, I don’t think “the right to clog everyone else’s bandwidth” is exactly covered under the right to freedom of speech.

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By Orbis Unum, April 16, 2011 at 9:36 pm Link to this comment

Re: Byard Pidgeon, April 17 at 1:20 am.

You State: “A quote that fits: “Slaves were educated in those things that enabled them to function in their work more effectively; but education as a concept, as a process of inquiry, was shunned for it promised only to cultivate aspirations that were inappropriate to those whose servitude was lifelong”.

Gary B. Nash, in his book “Red, White and Black”.”

Response: Thank you for your excellent quoted reference!!! I couldn’t agree more with this statement!!!

In support of our statements, let us state beyond a reasonable doubt, that what the former comedian “George Carlin” (just type in Youtube.com’s search bar “The America Dream” or “The Owners of America,” etc.) stated on many occasions’ throughout his illustrious career, concerning the absolute ignorance and stupidity of people, is without question a proven fact by us!

Even so, as I’ve said only many occasions, whether you appreciate our efforts we continue to proffer via the “Science of Right Reason” for your sanity, honor, and educational advancement towards freely chosen self-determination, the evidenced of those who have sacrificed for years to peel away programming of illusionist misrepresentation by social Role Models exposed, by offering the truth of the matter via the “4” declarations espoused by the S.E.A., published via the web links: http://seagov.info/index.html, available for those honestly looking for researching the truth, in the interest of Good Will with All Walks of Life seeking Universal Peace and solution oriented paradigms to the problems of local, national, and international systemic fraud via both Centers of Governance, Education, and Religion.

Or, do you have the guts to contradict these facts, via any posting data to support such, which we continually await honorably any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise? We have by Proffering such evidence via the web site earlier aforementioned!

To all seeking the just rewards and dignity in the service of truth above all, by an honorable willingness to test all things, even though sometimes it’s hard to face such truth through the eyes of false programming, designed to blind you into unknowing acceptance of subjugation, we graciously extend our most precious personal regards to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

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Orbis Unum's avatar

By Orbis Unum, April 16, 2011 at 9:28 pm Link to this comment

We are astounded by the audacity of those who purport to care about the alleged common person (what common person namely?), the common good, (whose common good namely?) or the general prosperity (again whose general prosperity namely?)! But yet fail to dialogue empirical evidence which emphatically proves what they believe is horse shit!!! 

And, if anyone in present day reality can still be mislead or coned by the use of such terminologies and/or phraseology, without any supporting nexus to prove the presumed contractual usages thereof, that are constantly paraded by every dirt-bag politician looking to get elected on a campaign trail to enslave, deceiving thereby, the masses to believe this U.S. Con-gressional Military Complex psy-ops programming, then I’d say there is no possibility of ever restoring a bullshit bond between the so-called voters and the presumed electors of these cretins, who’ve alienated every last drop of equity from their claimed presumed con-d-stituency, with nothing but out-in-out fraud from the very foundation of their so-called re-public!!!!!!!!!

As far as we’re concerned, anyone who supports such fraud is worse than a slaves who bow to such pretenders!!! Their nothing! Not unlike the purported intelligentsia herein. And the best way to describe “nothing” is via a visual form thereof, with analogy descriptive thereof. We’re no artist but we’ll give our best visual, so you can get the picture!

A “nothing” is like a turd lying on the street with the shit beat out of it!!!! We think, that pretty much sums up just the right amount of visual effect to get the picture across!!! Don’t you?

In support of our statements, let us state beyond a reasonable doubt, that what the former comedian “George Carlin” (just type in Youtube.com’s search bar “The America Dream” or “The Owners of America,” etc.) stated on many occasions’ throughout his illustrious career, concerning the absolute ignorance and stupidity of people, is without question a proven fact by us!

Even so, as I’ve said only many occasions, whether you appreciate our efforts we continue to proffer via the “Science of Right Reason” for your sanity, honor, and educational advancement towards freely chosen self-determination, the evidenced of those who have sacrificed for years to peel away programming of illusionist misrepresentation by social Role Models exposed, by offering the truth of the matter via the “4” declarations espoused by the S.E.A., published via the web links: http://seagov.info/index.html, available for those honestly looking for researching the truth, in the interest of Good Will with All Walks of Life seeking Universal Peace and solution oriented paradigms to the problems of local, national, and international systemic fraud via both Centers of Governance, Education, and Religion.

Or, do you have the guts to contradict these facts, via any posting data to support such, which we continually await honorably any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise? We have by Proffering such evidence via the web site earlier aforementioned!

To all seeking the just rewards and dignity in the service of truth above all, by an honorable willingness to test all things, even though sometimes it’s hard to face such truth through the eyes of false programming, designed to blind you into unknowing acceptance of subjugation, we graciously extend our most precious personal regards to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

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By Byard Pidgeon, April 16, 2011 at 9:20 pm Link to this comment

A quote that fits: “Slaves were educated in those things that enabled them
to function in their work more effectively; but education as a concept, as a
process of inquiry, was shunned for it promised only to cultivate
aspirations that were inappropriate to those whose servitude was lifelong”.

Gary B. Nash, in his book “Red, White and Black”.

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John Best asks,

By John Best asks, "What IS Progress"?, April 16, 2011 at 8:50 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, another quick point…..the paragraph about demographics of intelligence shift is interesting, but the issue I’m concerned about is not so much general intelligence going up or down, it’s an altogether different phenomenon…....the worship of ignorance.  It’s slightly different than anti-intellectualism.  Think ‘jackass the movie’ as a glaring example, but there are more obscure manifestations of the sub-culture.  In terms of sheer numbers, I wonder which is the sub-culture. 

The political relevance is that the right is using the ‘aw shucks’ club to stalemate the political process.  This is related to embracing personalities on likability, rather than embracing leaders based on thoughtful reflection of their ideas…....which would have to be presented cogently, rather than through these sound-bite emotional influences.  The basic process is not some collection of informed rational voters who pay attention between elections.  The ‘pro-stupid’ culture seems to love to embrace itself and enjoy being part of the tribe, and rubbing anyone who’s actually sensible’s nose in it.  Dunno.  Complicated.  Perhaps democracy was just an illusion all along.  I’d just like to see us get through and past peak oil without a major dark ages sort of crash.  There’s too much potential suffering (population) to do a bottleneck.  I don’t think anybody can be insulated from that sort of thing.  Even OrbU.

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John Best asks,

By John Best asks, "What IS Progress"?, April 16, 2011 at 8:33 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous,
Rather then writing, I’m going to re-read your last post…...many good points there.  One that resonated ab ti more so far is this: “Intellectual as a term has evolved to mean anyone who believes that those untested ideas ought to be given a trial run on society!  If so, it is not a stretch to imagine why Americans have developed a bit of an allergy to intellectualism and why, .......” 

I think there is a lesson in here regarding the responsibility of the ‘intellegensia’, to prove the practicality of things, to be responsible to the middle ground of understanding, to explain well, and to not ask for blind faith.  Jacoby isn’t perfect, and I dislike her tone, but these various mis-trusts right and wrong, are an important erosion factor for the social contract.  There are enough bastards making their living by intentionally destroying that fragile bond between us, so, I merely suggest that those of us who give a damn about the common good, the common person, the general prosperity, that we better understand the dynamics of this particular alienation. 

That said, I am not a molly-coddler, I think there is an opposite corrosion that happens when we try to treat everybody equally, and we all know damn well we’re not.  In the long run though, I think honesty, even though it’s a bitch sometimes, is best.  People need to grow a thicker skin about their shortcomings, but we don’t have to be jerks about it.

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By Orbis Unum, April 16, 2011 at 6:28 pm Link to this comment

As if it mattered to anyone herein, we continue to state for those that by whatever happenstance, should enter within the realms of this forum, to read or comment…beware!

Why?

Because if your really do have any facts to support your premises, you’ll be trounced upon by those purporting to know differently or just out-in-out slandered, libeled, or impugned in any manner to dissuade others to either reflect upon such evidenced, without offering any evidenced to the contrary thereof!!!!

So we plead forthwith to beware of these groundless, mindless, driveling intelligentsia, proffered by either the various poster’s or columnists’ as justifiable complaints or otherwise!

In support of our statements, let us state beyond a reasonable doubt, that what the former comedian “George Carlin” (just type in Youtube.com’s search bar “The America Dream” or “The Owners of America,” etc.) stated on many occsassions throughout his illustrious career, concerning the absolutue ignorance and stupidity of people, is with out question a proven fact by us!

Point in reference! We have taken George Carlin’s statements respective to any claimed rights of the people, or what is taught them concerning constitutional rights, voting, religion, ets…and who really owns and controls America to task so to speak! 

Even so, as I’ve said only many occasions, whether you appreciate our efforts we continue to proffer via the “Science of Right Reason” for your sanity, honor, and educational advancement towards freely chosen self-determination, the evidenced of those who have sacrificed for years to peel away programming of illusionist misrepresentation by social Role Models exposed, by offering the truth of the matter via the “4” declarations espoused by the S.E.A., published via the web links: http://seagov.info/index.html, available for those honestly looking for researching the truth, in the interest of Good Will with All Walks of Life seeking Universal Peace and solution oriented paradigms to the problems of local, national, and international systemic fraud via both Centers of Governance, Education, and Religion.

Or in contradiction thereof, via any posting data to support such, which we continually await honorably any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise. Proffered via the web site earlier aforementioned!

To all seeking the just rewards and dignity in the service of truth above all, by an honorable willingness to test all things, even though sometimes it’s hard to face such truth through the eyes of false programming, designed to blind you into unknowing acceptance of subjugation, we graciously extend our most precious personal regards to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

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