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Risk, Ambiguity and Decision

Risk, Ambiguity and Decision

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Who Is Obama? Now We Know

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Posted on May 6, 2011

By E.J. Dionne, Jr.

Barack Obama is not the man many Americans thought he was. This sudden realization has transformed American politics.

The sheer audacity of the successful operation against Osama bin Laden has forced Obama’s friends and foes alike to reassess what they make of a chief executive who defies easy categorization and reveals less about himself than politicians are typically drawn to do.

Obama is hard to understand because he is many things and not just one thing. He has now proved that he can be bold at an operational level, even as he remains cautious at a philosophical level. His proclivity to gather facts and weigh alternatives does not lead automatically, in the venerable phrase, to the paralysis of analysis. It can also end in daring action tempered by prudence—for example, making sure that additional helicopters were available to our Navy SEALs.

The president’s rhetoric has often emphasized caring, compassion and community, the language one expects from a moderately liberal politician. Yet as one of his close aides told me long ago, there is inside a very cool, tough, even hard man. Obama is not reluctant to use American military power. He was not at all queasy about authorizing the killing of an American enemy and the disposal of the body at sea to ensure that there would be no memorial to rally bin Laden’s followers.

Obama told us who he is in one of the most celebrated statements he made—about the war in Iraq—before he ran for president. His listeners tended to pay far more attention to the war he criticized than to his reasons for criticizing it. “I am not opposed to all wars,” he declared in 2002. “I’m opposed to dumb wars.” Note when it comes to armed conflict, the word “dumb” is not typically part of the lexicon of a moralist.

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The fact that Obama is not a moralist has led to many of the frustrations vented about him over the last 27 months. Liberals don’t get why it takes him so long to get around to taking on the political right over the fundamental purposes of government and the requirements of social justice. Advocates of democracy and human rights ask why he was so slow to invoke the word “democracy” as a touchstone of his foreign policy, and why he was so guarded in his initial response to the Arab Spring.

Supporters of a muscular and interventionist American foreign policy suspect him of believing that the decline of the United States is unavoidable and of seeing himself primarily as a steward whose task is to manage our steady loss of influence.

It is this last claim that took such a profound blow when Obama approved the operation against bin Laden and chose the riskiest option involving a face-to-face confrontation with American commandos—on the orders of the president of the United States. 

Obama’s conceptual complexity means that he rejects the idea that there are just two alternatives: the United States as the world’s sole superpower, or an America slinking off into weakness and irrelevance. Binary choices are not for him.

Instead, he sees a world in which new powers—China most obviously, but also India and, someday, Brazil—inevitably rise to challenge American dominance. The United States’ task is not to prevent the ineluctable emergence of other strong nations. Its imperative is to remain an enormously powerful force fully capable of shaping the globe’s new arrangements, defending its interests and values, and prospering in an ever more competitive environment.

And anyone who doubted our willingness to project our might as we see fit will have second thoughts after the events in Abbottabad.

This single action does not “change everything” because nothing ever changes everything. Killing one man does not settle two messy wars. Obama’s political standing will ultimately rise or fall largely on the basis of domestic issues and economic circumstances. The president’s supporters will again experience bouts of frustration when his philosophical caution prevails over his bold streak in the less martial work of negotiating budgets and promoting the general welfare at home. His opponents will not suddenly embrace his priorities.

But because he ordered this attack, and because it was successful, no one will ever view Barack Obama in quite the same way again.
   
E.J. Dionne’s email address is ejdionne(at)washpost.com.
   
(c) 2011, Washington Post Writers Group


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Anarcissie's avatar

By Anarcissie, May 11, 2011 at 6:43 pm Link to this comment

Lafayette, May 11 at 5:12 am
’....anar: “and wave flags although the execution of bin Laden will do nothing to solve their problems or improve their lives.”

Yes, with the biggest problem being death at the hands of some terrorist. That remains, however, to be seen.’

Hardly.  The chance of being killed or otherwise harmed by a terrorist is extremely small compared to more common threats to one’s wellbeing.  In any event, much of the harm terrorists cause is self-inflicted by their victims and could be eliminated if the victims made different, more rational choices.  For example, 9/11 provided the ideological springboard for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, in which considerably more Americans have been killed than in all terrorist incidents combined in the last 50 years.  The political, economic and physical problems confronting the United States, and the decline of the ability of its ruling class to think, much less rule, are far, far more serious problems than terrorism.

‘No doubt, al Qaeda will continue its terrorism. The question is for how long. ...’

No doubt there will be a certain amount of terrorism and other forms of war for the U.S. to be concerned with as long as it continues to interfere in the politics of the Middle East, at least, regardless of whether al-Qaeda exists.

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By Jorge X Rodriguez, May 11, 2011 at 5:46 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I agree that bin Laden, had he been shown to be the inspirer or mastermind of 9/11, might have played a role like that of Gavrilo Princip, who in effect mobilized the predisposition of the Austro-Hungarian Empire for war to, effectively, destroy it.  However, that connection has never been plainly shown; his known responsibility is for events that are now long ago and far away.  He seems to have been a man whom events had passed by, a relic hung out to dry by his keepers, possibly offered to his pursuers in exchange for favors or money.

The vulgarity and foolishness of the American response to his death is simply the price one pays for living in a (relatively) free society, where fools and boors have the same rights of expression as everyone else.

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Lafayette's avatar

By Lafayette, May 11, 2011 at 5:12 am Link to this comment

DISINTEGRATION

anar: and wave flags although the execution of bin Laden will do nothing to solve their problems or improve their lives.

Yes, with the biggest problem being death at the hands of some terrorist. That remains, however, to be seen.

No doubt, al Qaeda will continue its terrorism. The question is for how long.

What some cannot understand is that in the Muslim culture, male dominance prevails (in the absence of female reaction). It is an integral part of the Muslim culture to await “the Great Redeemer” or the Mahdi. It was in Khartoum that the British general Gordon was defeated by a Caliph who was the self-proclaimed the Mahdi.

The myth of the Mahdi is active today amongst fundamentalist Muslims in the Middle-East.

It is entirely possible that bin Laden, well-trained in Muslim beliefs, had cast himself in this role or, at the very least, saw himself as a Holy Warrior who could be anointed into the role.

His mortality has now been proven and the aura that surrounded him is gone. His “decapitation” from the head of al Qaeda could indeed be a mortal blow.

That remains to be seen - but some signs are indicative. His second in command is intelligent but a divisive character.

MY POINT

Al Qaeda is in for some fractional infighting, which could provide the seeds of its own disintegration. Unless they come up with another such personality.

And, I say, ObL was unique - he was self-effacing, kind, a thorough planner, pleasant to all he met ... and yet an unrepentant murderer in his undertakings.

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Lafayette's avatar

By Lafayette, May 11, 2011 at 3:51 am Link to this comment

FLAVOR OF THE DAY

jomo: Yet it was in the interest of the U.S. anti-terrorist militaristic collective mindset to claim, for the past several years, that Bin Laden was hiding in the caves of Afghanistan or was no longer alive.

Yeah? Well you are not the only one. It’s “flavor of the day” around here and has been so for quite some time.

Simple minds cannot possibly think that what is happening is purely random noise. No, it MUST BE a conspiratorial effort of Unknown Forces that have their but not our Vested Interests in mind.

What drivel from naive people - morons who’ve watched one Hollywood Conspiracy Scenario too much -  who haven’t the foggiest notion of how conspiracies contain the seed of their own imminent destruction.

MY POINT: A majority

To believe in Conspiracy Theory is self-abnegation. It means, regardless of what I think or what I want, there are always dark forces out there that will have their way.

Meaning, “It’s OK to surrender cuz there ain’t much anyone can do about it anyway”. Which is dead wrong. But, such people have no faith whatsoever in democracy and the way it functions.

So maybe they should not be living in one? Because they are behaving in precisely the manner that Vested Interests want you to behave. To stay at home from the free-election polls that they want to capture (which has been gerrymandered anyway to solidify existing party strengths).

Our democracy has a long way to evolve from its present miasma - but first of all it must shake itself out of the torpor of those who think their vote is not worthwhile.

And you were 52 percent of the American voting population to think so in the last midterms. Yep, 52 percent - which is a majority.

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MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, May 10, 2011 at 11:44 am Link to this comment

johncp, May 10 at 1:07 am,

Neither Hillary nor Obama was or are a good
choice for the 70% majority common population,
as both of them only represent the Middle Class
minority, and neither was or are the Republicans
that only represent the Elite Capitalist Class
minority, which completes our two choices in a
dynamic world and both are corporate seduced
for profit, not protection of citizens of the
majority population class and culture, so the
citizens of the American majority population class
and culture, the American Majority Common Class
and Culture, the American Populace Class and
Culture, go unrepresented as step children.  It is
time for the majority population class and culture
to be recognized in the United States, since the
New Class in the Middle only represents itself
and totally leaves out the majority population
class and culture and only represent their new
Middle Class at the expense of the majority
population class and culture.

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By johncp, May 10, 2011 at 1:07 am Link to this comment

But, Dameocrat:
The “we” that was supposed to be a majority, that you say voted for Obama over Hillary, is a myth.  If you watched Wolf Blitzer on CNN, the night that ended the count for the nomination battle between Hillary over Obama, Wolf said, that, and I paraphrase, “in two out of three scenarios, Hillary ‘won’ the popular vote.”  Of course Obama won, by a narrow margin, with the delegates.  This “win” of Obama’s was as corrupt and “political” as it could have been.  “We,” i.e. the people, the voting public, still preferred Hillary, though, by then, by a slim majority.  By then, because for a couple of months before the nomination, corporate America, led by Goldman Sachs, turned with rare ferocity, against Hillary, aided by their lap-dog media, in which, everywhere, Hillary was mercilessly attacked.  Goldman Saches gave Obama a million dollars to fight Hillary, more that they gave Hillary and McCain combined.  Why won’t anyone respond to this point?  Why the largesse?  Was it because they thought Obama would be a populist warrior for Democracy?  Media are backing Obama in a way I’ve never seen.  Who owns our media?  Whoever it is, owns Obama.

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By Marshall, May 10, 2011 at 12:18 am Link to this comment

“let’s recall what the same risk did to Jimmy Carter’s reelection campaign when
Pentagon Brass screwed up the rescue of American hostages in Tehran, in April,
1980 ...”

True, but BA wasn’t rescuing anyone - he was killing one guy and the only way to
know for sure that he’d succeeded was to have boots on the ground.  Anything
less and we could never be sure.  Even if we’d lost some lives on our side, the
benefit of bagging the big cheese would have been seen as worth it.

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By Monk-in-the-ruins, May 9, 2011 at 1:29 pm Link to this comment

Obama is not merely ‘not a moralist’ but an active violator of international law, as casual in committing human rights absues, and as cynical in using them as pretexts for his ‘smart wars’, as Bush and the neocons were.

  So, yes, we know who Obama is—not a cool Machiavellian but simply another criminal imperator.

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MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, May 9, 2011 at 12:20 pm Link to this comment

Samson, May 9 at 11:16 am,

What other choice have you got in mind?  The only choice is
backlash between either Republican or Republican Lite Democrats,
which is no choice at all—- we need better choices.  Cultural
awareness will provide better choices.

Cultural awareness that there is a 70% majority common
population that are being unrepresented by both political parties
and the need for the common majority population to be
represented as a total class and cultural majority of the common
population of the United States, because if the common majority
would realize their undivided power, there could be representation
of all the people in the United States, not just a few at the top.

One has to know that culture is what people as a class of people
do that is passed down from generation to generation.  Different
classes do different things.  People of the 70% common majority
need to become cyclically aware of their part in culture which will
upgrade the cyclical nature of culture for the majority population. 
Culture is everything that mankind has done and passed down
from the beginning to the present.

When relating to a separate class and culture you are relating to a
group of people who have awareness of only a portion of the
overall totality of culture as a whole.  The populace have the least
awareness, the middle class has more awareness and the
aristocracy has the greater awareness of the cyclical nature of
culture.

If the majority population become aware that they are a class and
culture that needs to have a greater understanding of the overall
cyclical nature of class and culture as a whole for best interest
benefit, that cyclical nature of culture can be used as cultural
capital and that cultural capital can be exchanged for moneyed
capital. 

We must rise above Jerry Springer personal experience individual
culture at the zero point, and realize that we are a part of the
whole majority common population’s class and culture that is
within the whole of culture and learn to increase our cultural
awareness beyond personal experience of culture at the zero
point to the cyclical nature of culture to obtain best interest from
cultural capital.

Barbara Ehrenreich addressed this need for class and cultural
awareness eloquently in her academic work, ‘The Fear of
Falling, The Inner Life of the Middle Class’
.

http://www.scottlondon.com/reviews/ehrenreich.html

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Samson's avatar

By Samson, May 9, 2011 at 11:16 am Link to this comment

Obama is Ronald Reagan with darker skin.

Obama fights wars like Reagan.  Actually, Obama
fights a whole lot more wars than Reagan, who had to
make due with Lebanon, Grenada and the Nicaraguan
contras.

Obama raises defense spending and then cuts domestic
spending to pay for it.

Obama defends tax cuts for the very rich.

Obama’s economic policy is Reagan’s.  Give the money
to the rich.  Give the money to wall street.  Hope
some of it generates a job somewhere.  Hope someone
else gets trickled on.  Everyone else gets lectures
on ‘self-responsibility’.

Obama spies on Americans and supports the
militarization of American police.  Obama sends his
FBI after people who dare to protest Obama’s wars.

Obama is Ronald Reagan.

Are you going to vote for four more years of
Reaganomics?

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mackTN's avatar

By mackTN, May 9, 2011 at 9:32 am Link to this comment

Is this supposed to be a complimentary article about Obama?  I figured out that he
was not the guy I thought he was once he gave taxpayer bailout money to the
banks and then allowed them to further crush the taxpayers, a perception sealed
when he extended tax cuts to the wealthy and declared the recession over.  Or
when he said his HAMP program was slow because it had to weed out the
“deadbeats.” 

Am I supposed to jump up and down because bin Laden is dead? I’d rather have a
job.

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Anarcissie's avatar

By Anarcissie, May 9, 2011 at 8:11 am Link to this comment

Lafayette, May 8 at 10:31 pm:

  ‘... “ED: Yet as one of his close aides told me long ago, there is inside a very cool, tough, even hard man.”

And he showed this latent side of his character because he did not need, as with a Money Bill, to ask a pusillanimous HofR and millionaire-infested Senate for their approval. Otherwise, with the to-and-fro of party politics in LaLaLand on the Potomac, ObL would have skedaddled back into some hillside cave…. ‘

Mr. O already had all the legislation he needed to pursue and destroy bin Laden.  Congress long ago handed the presidency a blank check.

I think what we’re dealing with here is theater, not war.  As you can see in the line you quoted it immediately had people like E. J. Dionne wetting their pants and shivering with a quasi-sexual thrill, and it got a host of ignorant, vulgar boobs into the streets to cheer, dance around, and wave flags although the execution of bin Laden will do nothing to solve their problems or improve their lives.  It is clear that, had bin Laden—or ‘bin Laden’—been the operational commander of an effective organization, he would not have been found in an isolated house, a dump, really, and he would not have been living without combat-trained guards, a defense perimeter or an escape route.  But the boobs don’t know that; the simple-minded stuff they’re given by the media has convinced them bin Laden was some sort of immensely powerful demon or at least the captain of the Other Team.  The problem for the purveyors of simple-mindedness is that it can often be easily captured and turned, as we now see.

Mr. O’s decision to engage in this risky piece of blood theater was not a strike against al-Qaeda but against the Republican Party.  It seems to have been a very successful one.

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By johncp, May 9, 2011 at 7:45 am Link to this comment

You have a new understanding of Obama.  Why?  Panetta has already revealed that he was told by a high ranking official, that the Seals made the decision to attack Osama, not Obama.  What garbage.  Obama’s a warmonger, because it works for poliiticans, most of the time.  Stop trying to bolster this mediocrity, by adding astonishing, but fictional, qualities to his personality.  He’s still the same unprincipled, hocus-pocus hustlers, still bringing “change,” not.  Still doing as he’s told by his bosses.  Nothing changes in politics.  Just the latest buch of babboons.

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Lafayette's avatar

By Lafayette, May 8, 2011 at 11:54 pm Link to this comment

GM: Why would I want to try to communicate with someone, or something, which does not wish to reciprocate?

Your pride is showing. Tuck it back in.

If you are looking to “win” a debate here, may I suggest that you take up a sport? Maybe football?

Debate is not sport. Its purpose is adversarial, that is, to exchange as well as challenge opinion - and thus learn or broaden our horizons.

If no one rebuts a post, presume that you have not written a post worth rebutting. It happens ... we learn to live with it and move on.

Besides, this sort of conversation on a blog is tedious. One should know better ...

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Lafayette's avatar

By Lafayette, May 8, 2011 at 11:44 pm Link to this comment

NO COLLATERAL DAMAGE

Bomb the compound ...It would also have raised a far greater international firestorm

It is almost certain that this option was not turned aside immediately.  After all, it meant very little risk of American lives.

But I’ll bet than when BO asked what was the certainty that No Collateral Damage (of neighboring Pakistanis) would occur, the answer came back that they could not guaranty NCD.

Our “laser-guided bombs” still get it wrong significantly enough to make the option not tenable in this particular situation. Getting Khadaffi yes, getting ObL no.

BO took the risk. And quite a chance it was - let’s recall what the same risk did to Jimmy Carter’s reelection campaign when Pentagon Brass screwed up the rescue of American hostages in Tehran, in April, 1980 ...

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Virginia777's avatar

By Virginia777, May 8, 2011 at 11:42 pm Link to this comment

Gary Mont:

“There is no left or right in the corporate halls of power. There is only the bottom line and the necessity of making more profit this year than last year. No action that might be taken can be considered as “bad” if it achieves this goal.”

Here I agree with you. Exactly.

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Virginia777's avatar

By Virginia777, May 8, 2011 at 11:38 pm Link to this comment

Gary Mont:

“Why would I want to try to communicate with someone, or something, which does not wish to reciprocate? The outcome is pretty much predetermined. The effort is pretty much pointless.”

Then why do you spend so much time doing so?

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Virginia777's avatar

By Virginia777, May 8, 2011 at 11:36 pm Link to this comment

Gary Mont:

“I have a full crew of etheric hill dwarves and my 11th level Gnome Machinist from Cameloplebas working on it as we speak.”

Oh goody, goody, goody for you.

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By Marshall, May 8, 2011 at 10:33 pm Link to this comment

I see Obama’s decision differently than EJ Dion does.  The CIA & military had been
tracking OBL for over a decade and through diligent intelligence work (likely
including enhanced interrogation techniques), finally located OBL with high
certainty.  Obama’s advisors proposed the only two possible options: a) Bomb the
compound, b) storm the compound.  Bombing the compound would have
obliterated evidence useful to potentially breaking the back of AQ, and might well
have obliterated evidence about whether we’d even killed Obama.  It would also
have raised a far greater international firestorm within and without Pakistan. 
These downsides left the Obama with only one viable option which is the one he
chose.  This was not a heroic choice between equally weighted paths - it was a
no-brainer that only needed to be implemented, which is what our military did.  In
that regard, I believe Obama played only the role of a rubber stamp.  The WH has
certainly spun the credit in his direction but I fail to see the case for that.

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Lafayette's avatar

By Lafayette, May 8, 2011 at 10:31 pm Link to this comment

THAT’S DEMOCRACY

ED: Yet as one of his close aides told me long ago, there is inside a very cool, tough, even hard man.

And he showed this latent side of his character because he did not need, as with a Money Bill, to ask a pusillanimous HofR and millionaire-infested Senate for their approval. Otherwise, with the to-and-fro of party politics in LaLaLand on the Potomac, ObL would have skedaddled back into some hillside cave.

There is one helluva lot a PotUS “can do” without the constraints of a balance-of-power governance, but what democracy is led by a dictator - benevolent or otherwise?

No, we must do with contraption that we have; old and creaky as it is, barely able to react to needs and overwhelmed by small-minded partisan thought.

Until America wakes up and changes it at the ballot box. That’s democracy! It doesn’t run along, it creeps along - from voting day to voting day.

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MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, May 8, 2011 at 8:47 pm Link to this comment

Gary Mont, May 8 at 8:32 pm,

So you are a boiler room troll, otherwise you would
not be having a problem answering.

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Gary Mont's avatar

By Gary Mont, May 8, 2011 at 8:32 pm Link to this comment

MarthaA:I do not have any faith that your dwarves, gnomes, and trolls, apparently in a boiler room, are up to the task of comprehending and
understanding what I have said to you, since you
did not understand.

OK, so you’re a keyword/phrase computer program. Cool. You’re pretty state-of-the-art, but extraordinarily repetitive.

Please Note:

When someone posts a comment that has been specifically designed to be difficult or impossible to understand, all I see is a lack of desire to communicate.

Why would I want to try to communicate with someone, or something, which does not wish to reciprocate? The outcome is pretty much predetermined. The effort is pretty much pointless.

If you’re not a mere meme and keyword program, and actually do desire to communicate, let me know - in layman’s english please.

Otherwise, I simply don’t have the desire or inclination to play this kind of game and this will have to be my final attempt at dialogue.

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MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, May 8, 2011 at 8:08 pm Link to this comment

Gary Mont, May 8 at 4:17 pm,

I do not have any faith that your dwarves,
gnomes, and trolls, apparently in a boiler room,
are up to the task of comprehending and
understanding what I have said to you, since you
did not understand.

But as you say, “I have a full crew of etheric
hill dwarves and my 11th level Gnome Machinist
from Cameloplebas working on it as we
speak.”
therefore, I await your response.

Though I have no faith that anyone at your
facility will comprehend, understand and
demonstrate anything other than sophism, I’ll
watch for your answer with the results from your
full crew of dwarves, gnomes and trolls, but in
fact, I have low expectations because as you
say, they are dwarves, gnomes and trolls, and
one can’t really expect anything from boiler room
dwarves, gnomes and trolls, other that that they
will do what dwarves, gnomes and trolls do.

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Gary Mont's avatar

By Gary Mont, May 8, 2011 at 7:50 pm Link to this comment

minutemenmedia:This is just the next act, I cannot believe the scope of denial, the naked propaganda, it’s frightening.

If you stop thinking about these people as political and begin to see that they are merely officers and henchmen in a corporate heirarchy, you will start to understand their actions much better and the shock value of their actions and lies and obfuscation and propaganda becomes almost identical to any typical commercial advertisement where shit is being sold as gold.

There is no left or right in the corporate halls of power. There is only the bottom line and the necessity of making more profit this year than last year. No action that might be taken can be considered as “bad” if it achieves this goal.

Getting caught simply means manufacturing some evidence, having a few people killed and creating a more acceptable version of the story for your unfree media to flood the airwaves with until most folks believe it to be the only version of the story and thus, the truth.

Try thinking of the US Federal Government as a secret multi-national financial corporation called A Merry Co., whose purpose is the liquidation of the USA.

The project name is Hitler’s Revenge.

That should help things make sense.

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By minutemenmedia, May 8, 2011 at 6:45 pm Link to this comment

You guys are far to intelligent to fall for this crap.

Osama has been dead for years, a CIA asset long past his shelf life.

This is nothing more than another stunt, I mean, a sitting president making a national “tour” to celebrate the death of one so-called terrorist?

Sure ... he’s dead, yet Panetta admits a 25-minute blackout, and all we have to go on is their “word” on DNA evidence and a story about a burial at sea.  Sure thing.  Remember the Gulf of Tonkin? And that was decades ago.

This administration, and others past, have made a fine art of lying to us, stretching the truth for military and corporate gain.

This is just the next act, I cannot believe the scope of denial, the naked propaganda, it’s frightening.

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By Tom Edgar, May 8, 2011 at 4:48 pm Link to this comment

Then there are “Trolls” whose sole purpose is to subvert and destroy the site and the subject matter.
This can be, on atheist sites, religious extremists, and on others even Government or Party Political writers who are intent on destroying the negating effects on their policies by the relevant site.

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Gary Mont's avatar

By Gary Mont, May 8, 2011 at 4:17 pm Link to this comment

MarthaA:This is very important and requires an answer.

As soon as that post is fully translated into recognizable english, I’ll consider a response if it turns out that there really is a question in your message.

I have a full crew of etheric hill dwarves and my 11th level Gnome Machinist from Cameloplebas working on it as we speak.

However, since you quoted something which was a pun on the end of the democratic republic called America, where everyone would finally be equal once everyone was broke, to which you responded “Equality is what is strived for.”, I’m pretty sure that even translated into english your sublimation proclamation will make no more sense than it does now and moreover, I’m beginning to think you don’t actually read responses except to look for key words and phrases.

Are you by chance a computer program??

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Gary Mont's avatar

By Gary Mont, May 8, 2011 at 4:02 pm Link to this comment

christian96:  “Dear Folks—-I’m not crazy about exposing my ignorance but I will.  Could someone give me a definition of a “troll?”  Thank you!

Keeping your ignorance from being exposed is a sure fire way of keeping your ignorance. Learning a new thing is difficult if you can’t first admit you do not know.

Troll - someone who:

A.) Is paid by the forces of fascism to disrupt public discussions through lies, misleading claims, insults and redirection of subject, in the hopes of preventing public discourse from producing workable solutions to the problems created by the forces of fascism.

B.) Juveniles (mentally as well as chronologically),  who do the same as the above - lies, misleading claims, insults and redirection of subject - in order to get attention through angry responses. Similar to pranksters, or the modern punksters.

I believe the term gets its origin from the fishing term thus:

“trolling” is just hanging your fishing line over the edge of the boat and slowly cruising downstream to see what bites.

Political Trolls hang their “claim” or “insult” into the blog to see what bites, and then they “play” the catch.

We used to call them “bunkers” (posters of bunkum), as in the opposite of Debunkers.

Hope this helps

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Anarcissie's avatar

By Anarcissie, May 8, 2011 at 1:00 pm Link to this comment

I know very little about Glenn Beck.  Howard Beale, the protagonist of the movie Network, which is supposed to have foretold the era of Beck, Limbaugh, and so forth, might be an example, since he seems to revel in his own and others’ anger and to believe his own b.s.

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MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, May 8, 2011 at 12:11 pm Link to this comment

DaveZx3, May 8 at 2:21 am & Gary Mont, May 7 at 7:54 pm,

“but instead just consistently reiterate that the polar ends of
the political spectrum are completely defined, and account for all
people in the nation,”
—DaveZx3, May 8 at 2:21 am

“You’ll definitely all be equal ....”—Gary Mont, May 7 at
7:54 p

Equality is what is strived for.

The polar ends are the EXTREMES, and there is definitely more to a
democracy that only the EXTREMES, the Left is everyone,
community, who will benefit from democratic equality and the Right
is those individuals who would benefit from an unequal democracy,
an autocracy.

In the United States there is a 70% Majority Common Population,
a 20% minority aristocratic Corporate Professional Academic Middle
Class and a 10% minority aristocratic Corporate Elite Capitalist
Class.

All aristocracies are on the Right and all democracies are on the
Left.

Since there is so much talk on this thread about trolls not using
logic, it seems logic is necessary to be brought forth in the
discussion of the logic of the Left and the Right:

There are two types of argument in dialog, one is based upon
dialectic, sublated unity, and the other is based upon
sophistry, singular definition and representation of terms in the
absence of equal unity of sublated balance
.

What is the frame of your argument regarding the Left and the
Right and that neither the Left or the Right exist?  Is your
argument based upon the sublated unity of mathematica, dialectic,
that is at the base of the scientific method?  Or, is the frame of
your argument regarding the Left and the Right based upon the
certainty of ideological definition, sophistry, separate and apart
from the logic of dialectic?

This is very important and requires an answer.

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By christian96, May 8, 2011 at 11:10 am Link to this comment

Rayland and Anarcissie—-Thank you for responding to
my question about “trolls.”  I just turneds 71 and
am an example that you can teach old dogs new tricks.
For some reason I had the opinion trolls were mythical creatures something like a leprechaun.  Let
me check how well I have learned. Anarcissie, would
I be correct in calling Glen Beck an “autotroll?”

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By race_to_the_bottom, May 8, 2011 at 10:16 am Link to this comment

We always knew who Obama was. He is, was, and always will be a stooge of finance capital. Otherwise, why would Wall Street shower a junior senator with no real roots in the political establishment with gobs of money.

Therefore he must be a supporter of the program of finance capital including imperialist wars of aggression.

Incidentally, there is no such thing as a “dumb” war. There are just miscalculations, strategic or tactical. The fact that he can get away with such childish nonsense further illustrates the complete bankruptcy of the media.

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By Anarcissie, May 8, 2011 at 7:35 am Link to this comment

The term troll used to be used for people who cynically stir up angry exchanges online by saying controversial, inflammatory things they don’t really believe in or know about.  However, it has become obvious that many irritating participants actually do believe in what they say, and function in a conversation in pretty much the same way, so these people are often called ‘trolls’ as well.  There are also people who seem to enjoy being angry and try to provoke conflict regardless of their beliefs; a friend of mine calls these types ‘autotrolls’.

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By Jim Yell, May 8, 2011 at 7:16 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Our society asks and sometimes demands that young people give up their life, and or health to participate in murderous actions.

Sadly some of these actions are necessary, but too many of these actions are a show constructed for Corporate profit and Political gain.

While I think Usama was a proper target, I agree with those who observe that his death changes nothing and is in danger of becoming a device for Miltary-Industrialists to continue the destruction of our country and wealth.

What a bunch of pigs we have become.

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By RayLan, May 8, 2011 at 7:07 am Link to this comment

christian96
Trolls usually have no coherent belief system. They get their kicks from ‘flaming’ others and throwing out any argument, however slim. They are slippery and cannot be trapped by logical argumentation, since they don’t acknowlege any rules of logic. Their primary need is to get attention like bratty children. Oh and they always think they’re being terribly clever.

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By christian96, May 8, 2011 at 6:05 am Link to this comment

Dear Folks—-I’m not crazy about exposing my ignorance but I will.  Could someone give me a
definition of a “troll?”  Thank you!

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By Gary Mont, May 8, 2011 at 3:00 am Link to this comment

Virginia777:What a troll-like thing to say.

In my experience, Trolls post nothing about the article under discussion and simply make childishly hopeful insults about other posters who piss them off.

So, do you have anything to say on the subject at hand, that might be worth reading?

Or is the extent of your contribution merely to dis the posters you don’t like?

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By DaveZx3, May 8, 2011 at 2:21 am Link to this comment

By MarthaA, May 7 at 8:32 pm

“The Left is the majority population ONLY; working people; and the Right are the CEO’s, Bankers, Mega Oil, Mega Insurance, Mega Corporations, etc. that have all the money.”
———————————————————————————

What an absolutely absurd statement you have made there.  Do a little research and find out how absurd that statement is.  How can you be taken seriously when you over-generalize like that? 

If your function is of a troll, it would explain it, and it does seem that you cannot come up with any original ideas, but instead just consistently reiterate that the polar ends of the political spectrum are completely defined, and account for all people in the nation, as though there is absolutely no middle ground. 

All workers are left and all CEO’s are right.  That’s it in your mind.  Don’t you think that people are not that simple and polarized, but much more complex in their beliefs and ideas? 

IF the majority of the population were lefties, how could fox news dominate the ratings?  Why wouldn’t they just not watch it, and run them out of business?
The only thing that makes Beck and O’Reilly so powerful is that they have tremendous ratings.  Why does the majority of the population prop them up like that?  It doesn’t make sense.

How would a troll answer that question?

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By Virginia777, May 7, 2011 at 10:56 pm Link to this comment

Gary Mont:

“a man who has done as much to turn America into Naziland as did Bush Sr., Jr., or Richard the Dick Cheney.”

*double eye roll*

What a troll-like thing to say.

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By Virginia777, May 7, 2011 at 10:52 pm Link to this comment

Gary Mont:

“Perhaps the article was a purer form of sacrcasm than I’m familiar with, because it sure sounded like hero worship for a man who has done as much to turn America into Naziland as did Bush Sr., Jr., or Richard the Dick Cheney.”

*eye roll*

What an exaggerator.

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, May 7, 2011 at 10:08 pm Link to this comment

Hegemony of lust-filled and greed-filled empty vessels: 

Just come out and establish by decree your one-world totalitarian government with your chosen dark-heart proclaiming himself to be god in Jerusalem already…. let your final solution come to light… why keep us in suspense any longer?

Your communist-held central bank of the world has indebted every sovereign nation ( as was planned ) and the fascist / corporatist state has been locked in and unchallenged by the chattel ( for they haven’t the faintest idea that the communist bank owns all the world’s fiats AND most anything of real value, including food and natural resources, and the few intellectuals who ‘see’ are too afraid to do anything about it and will most likely bend to serve you or be scared shut… or sequestered and murdered ).

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By RayLan, May 7, 2011 at 9:56 pm Link to this comment

It comes as no suprise that Obama is a warmonger - no less than his Repub compatriots - That his warmonging includes hunting down a terrorist reveals exactly nothing. He always shows his colors when it comes to corporate interests and war is one of the biggest and most important. He is on the campaign trail after all - it’s time for the grand gestures and rhetoric - All drama and no evidence.

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By MarthaA, May 7, 2011 at 8:59 pm Link to this comment

Gary Mont, May 7 at 8:41 pm,

“You seem to believe that the Public Right does not exist and that
the entire Right Wing of Politics is composed of nothing but
millionaires!”
Gary Mont, May 7 at 8:41 pm

The political public Right doesn’t exist.  The political private Right does
exist.  The entire Right-Wing of politics is composed of only private
interests—not public interests.  Political public interests is the Left
and Political private capital interests is the Right.

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By Gary Mont, May 7, 2011 at 8:41 pm Link to this comment

To MarthaA,

Well, you missed the point so thoroughly that I have to wonder if you actually read anything in the post.

You seem to believe that the Public Right does not exist and that the entire Right Wing of Politics is composed of nothing but millionaires!

I don’t even know how to start arguing against beliefs based solely on emotions - it would be like aguing with a Christian about the existence of Christ - its a total waste of time.

When you wake up a little let me know.

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By MarthaA, May 7, 2011 at 8:32 pm Link to this comment

Gary Mont, May 7 at 7:54 pm,

You are wrong.  As long as the Left do not know who they are
there can never be change.  The Left is the majority
population ONLY
; working people; and the Right are the
CEO’s, Bankers, Mega Oil, Mega Insurance, Mega Corporations,
etc. that have all the money.

“The public, split nicely into three camps are doing exactly what
the Cash Crew want them to do - the left and right are beating
each other up and keeping each other from getting anything done
- preventing any sort of unified front which is the only thing that will
save the USA from being dismantled and sold off to the highest
bidders.”
—Gary Mont, May 7 at 7:54 pm

What you have stated here is the Right-Wing strategy straight
from Hitler’s, ‘Mein Kampf’.  This is the Left that is split nicely into
three camps.  The public may have to be completely starving
before they realize there is only one camp of the Left, the 70%
Majority Common Population and that the 70% Majority Common
Population has no Right.  As long as the Right can seduce the Left
into cooperating and thinking that they of the Left are the
Republican Right, it is impossible to get the Left organized. It
would seem that working people would be able to see that
Republicans do not represent them in any way, but apparent they
are blinded by the Right’s money.

The Democratic Party plays a theatrical part of being equal with
the Right, the Democratic Party is not equal with the Republican
Party.  The difference is the Democratic Party has made
themselves toadies to the Right and the Republican Party IS the
Right and there are no other legitimate political parties that are
equal with these two political parties.

The Left knowing who they are and withdrawing from the
Republican Party and taking over the Democratic Party is the only
solution, but as long as you think there is no Left and Right, YOU
make that impossible.

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By Gary Mont, May 7, 2011 at 8:32 pm Link to this comment

Correction:

Unable to see what is directly in front of them, the public right stubbornly praise…

Should have been:

Unable to see what is directly in front of them, the public Left stubbornly praise…

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By Gary Mont, May 7, 2011 at 7:54 pm Link to this comment

Goodness you folks are thick. I’m not sure why I’m posting this, as I really doubt anyone can understand it anymore.

You’re all so polarized into your self limiting roles, that reality seems to be passing right by you.

But, for my own conscience, I gotta say it.

There aint no left and there aint no right.

Not among the politicians and the bankers and the CEOs and the lawyers and the theives and the murderers and the military brass and the spooks that currently own and operate America as an extremely lucrative and highly profitable business venture.

The public, split nicely into three camps are doing exactly what the Cash Crew want them to do - the left and right are beating each other up and keeping each other from getting anything done - preventing any sort of unified front which is the only thing that will save the USA from being dismantled and sold off to the highest bidders.

40% of the country is so apathetic that they want nothing to do with politics or either of the two opposing “sides” of the political debate and are just as useless as either the right or left.

The public right thinks its winning because the Cash Crew is cancelling all the welfare and assistance programs, killing the unions and destroying education and women’s rights. They think the Cash Crew is working for them, because they claim to be against birth control and gay marriage.

Nothing could be farther from the truth.

When they’re done with America, the right is going to wish there were some assitance programs for the poor, because the Cash Crew are not gonna share the wealth they stole with you fools.

The public left thinks the POTUS is on their side, even though they’ve seen with their own eyes - over and over again - how he does precisely what a right wing president would be doing and does nothing at all that a left wing president should be doing, except in his speeches and promises - none fulfilled.

Unable to see what is directly in front of them, the public right stubbornly praise the president for the little accomplishments he does make, like tying his own shoes and not spilling his water. His only real accomplishment to date is to have conned the left so thoroughly that they’re now too embarrased to ever admit they’re being screwed by mister smily.

The simple truth of the matter, is that both sides are losing their country, their future and their livliehoods to a bunch of thieves, murderers, con artists and multi-national tycoons and the righties and lefties and NotApplicables of the public are consciously aiding these crooks in their goal - the total liquidation of the United States of America - just by remaining polarized into left morons and right morons and just plain morons.

Then again, its your country, so its your right to lose it any way you see fit I suppose… at least when the Cash Crew finalizes the sale of your highways and houses, there’s a really good chance you’ll all - left, right and NA - see eye to eye. You’ll definitely all be equal finally.

Equally broke.

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By MarthaA, May 7, 2011 at 6:02 pm Link to this comment

Tom Edgar, May 7 at 5:29 pm,

You have certainly expressed my feelings.  I do
not know why President Obama with all the
power of the presidency as it is today, goes
along with the Republicans, because the
Republicans always immediately turn and get
busy rending him. 

Will President Obama ever get the clue that the
majority population is necessary to be
represented if he cares about the country,
because no Republican will care about the
majority population and neither will the jingoistic
Republicans care about the country, but will be
into selling the ports and bridges to other
countries as soon as the people let them back
into full force.  It’s time we get Republicans out of
the Left by cleansing the Left of all LC New
Democrats.

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By Tom Edgar, May 7, 2011 at 5:29 pm Link to this comment

Who is Obama?.... He may not be the worse President ever…........BUT .....He is certainly the most disappointing.

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By JDmysticDJ, May 7, 2011 at 3:36 pm Link to this comment

The nomenclature doesn’t exist that would allow me to express my disgust for E.J. Dionne’s openly stated point of view in this article, anyway, others here have done an admiral job of accomplishing that task using the nomenclature available. Let me just say that Dionne reveals himself to be sucking sycophant, and an unthinking reprobate.

Speaking of sucking sycophants and unthinking reprobates, thethirdman is the last person I would suspect of saying anything nice about Bill Ayers, but he has, apparently because he had some proximity to Ayers’, and agreed with Ayers cogent assessment of Obama. I don’t know Bill Ayers (Personally) but you thethirdman are no Bill Ayers.

Ayers speaking of peace recently said:

“Of course there’s an alternative, and it’s critical that people who are standing for peace and justice make a big point in their lives of saying that whatever is the case, whatever the world looks like as such, standing right next to that is the world that could be but is not yet. That’s the world we have to work toward.”

Note that Bill Ayers is not advocating war for gain, or preservation of empire. Ayers says, “Empire, invasion, and occupation always earn blow-back.” It’s this blow-back that threatens our nation and thethirdman is a fool for suggesting that business as usual will protect us. Business, as usual, has gotten us in this mess we’re in. thethirdman quotes Dionne:

“Obama’s conceptual complexity means that he rejects the idea that there are
just two alternatives: the United States as the world’s sole superpower, or an
America slinking off into weakness and irrelevance. Binary choices are not for
him.”

Reads good, but I haven’t seen any significant alternatives being advanced. Obama is not binary in his choices either; the one choice exercised is more of the same, expecting a different result.

“After Iraq, we may be tempted to turn inward. That would be a mistake. The American moment is not over, but it must be seized anew. We must bring the war to a responsible end and then renew our leadership—military, diplomatic, moral—to confront new threats and capitalize on new opportunities. America cannot meet this century’s challenges alone; the world cannot meet them without America.” Barack Obama

“… The United States stands as the world’s pre-eminent power. Having led the West to victory in the Cold War, America faces an opportunity and a challenge: Does the United States have the vision to build upon the achievements of past decades? Does the United States have the resolve to shape a new century favorable to American principles and interests?” Project for the New American Century

“The Project for the New American Century was an American think tank based in Washington, D.C. It was co-founded as a non-profit by neoconservatives William Kristol and Robert Kagan. The PNAC’s stated goal was “to promote American global leadership.” Fundamental to the PNAC were the view that “American leadership is both good for America and good for the world” The PNAC exerted influence on high-level U.S. government officials in the administration of U.S. President George W. Bush and affected the Bush Administration’s development of military and foreign policies, especially involving national security and the Iraq War.”

The Project for the New American Century’s most notorius statement had to do with the need for a “New Pearl Harbor.” I don’t believe that Obama is as maniacal as “The Project for a New American Century,” so perhaps there is something other than the two alternatives mentioned by Dionne at work, but the objective is clearly the same. Empire does not allow competition. Empire operates in its own interest. “We know best,” say the advocates of Empire, and these advocates fabricate moral pretexts in order to justify blatantly immoral activities.

The U.S. is not the only member of the current Empire, only the powerful and dominant leader.

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By christian96, May 7, 2011 at 3:06 pm Link to this comment

Gerard—-The article is entitled “WHO IS OBAMA? NOW
WE KNOW!”  It is not “WHO IS OSAMA? NOW IS KNOW!”
 
MARTHA——You are probably right.  I haven’t spent
a lot of time thinking about it.  I do know one thing
they have in common. They both killed women, children, and old men.  OLD MEN?  Good God!  I’m an
old man and Obama is still alive.  I better watch my
mouth.  I love Obama.  Best President we ever elected.  I am going to campaign my neighbor for him.
Hail Obama!  Hail Obama!  Hail Obama!  Is he handing
out swastika’s yet? Gerard made an astute statement.
“Let alone knowing Osama.  We don’t really know ourselves yet.”  We do a pretty decent job teaching
reading, writing, and arithmetic but we do a poor job of teaching our children about “Human Growth and
Development.”  I took time to develop curriculum for
Child Development and Family Relations classes which
I was trying to introduce to curriculum in the State of Ohio.  I spent time and money on gasolines to drive to Columbus to speak before the State Board of
Education about my ideas.  I was the last to speak
before lunch.  Half-way through my presentation the
President of the board stopped me and said, “It is lunch time.  Would you please summarize your points?”
I looked at him.  My mind drifted back to my younger
years in West Virginia.  I thought, “I should walk over, knock his teeth out, and tell him to enjoy his lunch.”  I decided against it.  I drove home wondering how the president could put his stomach before the children and families of Ohio.  That’s
America!

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By dr wu, May 7, 2011 at 2:40 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Obama tows the party line. All presidents/politicians do. What is the party line—- we are here to do good in the world; we do good by controlling/running the world. We killed 10 million American indians and used 10 million American slaves in our effort to do good. Anyone can see how good we are.

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By drbhelthi, May 7, 2011 at 2:24 pm Link to this comment

” - CIA of the USA for a time and ended up dead in a disheveled run
down building like a pauper with his body thrown into the ocean where
no one will ever be able to find his grave.” MarthaA

Martha, I like your logic, but some of your ideas are not factual.
Osama bin Laden was buried in a carefully located, but unmarked grave,
a little over ten years ago. IFFF a corpse were tossed into a sea, it
was not that of Osama bin Laden.  It would more likely have been that
of an American involved in the Hollywood-style production, who
whispered to a buddy he was going to blow the whistle on the debacle,
was overheard or else snitched on, and was assisted with suicide.
Typically s/he would be reported as killed by hostile fire in the gun
battle, similar to the deliberate murder of Corporal Tillman a couple
years ago. Such things happen much more often than you might think.

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By gerard, May 7, 2011 at 12:18 pm Link to this comment

And by the way—the headline is interesting: “WHO IS OSAMA. NOW WE KNOW.”
  Actually, we might have known much more, had he not been killed.
  And as to what we know about ourselves (which is the really important question)—nothing has changed.  We know very little about ourselves—and even less about other people.  Why is this?  Could it
be that blindness actually makes killing easier?

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By gerard, May 7, 2011 at 12:12 pm Link to this comment

Mr. Dionne:  Don’t you see that “—our willingness to project our might as we see fit” is our biggest problem?

Just because we are the biggest kid on the block does not entitle us to project power indiscriminately ss we are doing more or less everywhere in the world. Nor does it entitle us (our government) to put our domestic critics in jail and silence our population using fear, telephone tapping, finger-printing etc. etc.  The bully, for all his muscle-flexing, is usually the biggest coward on the block.  Self-correction is in order here, and while the killing of Bin Laden may make some people “happy”, it solves nothing so far as world peace and justice is concerned.

Assassinations do not generally have a very good name—and for that very reason.  Like “drones”,
“stealth” bombers, “daisy cutters”, “collateral
damage”, “therapeutic strikes”, “sneak attack” etc. they leave a peculiar stench behind.

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By munky, May 7, 2011 at 11:57 am Link to this comment

This article is gross. While you’re at it, why not give Obama a BJ, EJ? I usually enjoy your column, but this article is freakin weird, like reading a fawning editorial about Dear Leader of North Korea!

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By MarthaA, May 7, 2011 at 11:52 am Link to this comment

Bin Laden was born an aristocrat and became a revolutionary
even against his own country, was used by the CIA of the USA for
a time and ended up dead in a disheveled run down building like a
pauper with his body thrown into the ocean where no one will
ever be able to find his grave—Osama was royalty dying in a
worse situation than most any commoner.  And, Osama was his
given name.

Obama was born common and rose out of the common population
to become the president of his country.  And, Obama is the name
of his father, not his given name.

There are no similarities—you are way off track.

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By ocjim, May 7, 2011 at 11:36 am Link to this comment

Its imperative is to remain an enormously powerful force fully capable of shaping the globe’s new arrangements, defending its interests and values, and prospering in an ever more competitive environment.

These are highblown words, EJ. It is a great achievement for Obama but there is no evidence that he will be able to counter the feckless, plutocratic-purchased, and self-absorbed Republicans in order to reduce unemployment and to stop the inexorable plunge of the American economy into a sterile, blood-sucking plutocracy.

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By christian96, May 7, 2011 at 11:08 am Link to this comment

MarthaA0—-I am 71 years old and will probably never
know many of the paramaters associated with President
Obama(I almost wrote “Osama”.)  What a Freudian slip!
Their first names are nearly the same, they both kill
women, and children, etc.!  I’m sure someone will write about the similarities between the two. Obama
likes to play basketball.  He probably can dance also.  I wonder if Osama played basketball.  I know
my own strengths and weaknesses.  I can shoot a basketball even at 71.  I’ll bet I can beat Obama in
a game of “Horse.”  If you aren’t familiar with “Horse” it is a game where one contestant shoots
a basketball shot.  If they make it the next contestant has to make the shoots.  If they fail to make it they are assigned a “H” as in horse.  The first contestant to spell “horse” is THE HORSE.  I
believe “Osama” was brighter than “Obama.” We were told on the news a Navy Seal had to lay beside Osama
to obtain an estimate of his height.  With all the
money we spend on military expenditures you mean to
tell me we couldn’t afford a tape measure for each
Navy Seal to put in his/her pocket?  If the situation was reversed I believe Osama would have provided his Navy Seals with tape measures.

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By MarthaA, May 7, 2011 at 10:07 am Link to this comment

christian96, May 7 at 6:34 am,

“Who made the decision to kill him and
rob us of the inforation?  That’s a question I would
like answered!” —christian96, May 7 at 6:34 am

So would I and a lot of others, but it is going to be difficult to ever
know the truth in our lifetime, because evil covers for evil.  I suppose
the truth will be known at some time when all involved are dead.

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By Say No to Corporate America, May 7, 2011 at 9:27 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

They hate us because we are there. And we are there for KBR, Xe, Raytheon,etc. Obama continues wars despite his campaign promises. One man, binLaden, is killed [again] and the whole world knows. How on Earth do people think the death of one bad man should get Obama relected? What about all the innocent children that have died? That will die? Now Obama has gotten the US involved in a civil war in Libya - who knows for sure it was a civil war; it was not like the uprisings in Tunisia or Egypt. Obama did it on his own, he is not King Obama. Why no cruise missiles in Bahrain? Oh wait we like their super-rich dictator-family. Why no cruise missiles in Sudan? Oh wait, they don’t have anything. Gaddafi, sitting on 144 tons of gold, wanted to start a new gold backed currency, the gold dinar, which bodes ill for the dollar, the euro and the yen which are backed by nothing and put in a race to the bottom by their central banks. NATO is in Libya to kill Gaddafi, take his gold and of course take his oil. The rebels had brand new CIA weapons, a brand new central bank and an oil deal with Qatar within a couple of weeks. That is one well-organized Internationally-savvy bunch for a group of rag-tag-rebels. American “Special Forces” have been on the ground in Libya since February (NATO March 19).

Spooky wrote, “Don’t blame America for the absolutely polluted corruption evident in every single corner of the world. This corruption is not caused by America or corporatism.”
=> Now we’re getting somewhere. I really liked “the absolutely polluted corruption evident in every single corner of the world” acknowledgement. We both agree on that. And I kind of agree with the first half. I don’t blame the American Citizen for corruption in every corner of the world, but I could blame America’s leaders, it’s corporations and institutions. Corporatism gets no pass from me. American Government has become the biggest corporate PR department in the world. If a corporation (even foreign) can make a buck, well then the US Government is behind it. But here’s the thing - the government doesn’t do it to enrich the lives or standard of living of the American Citizen, they do it to enrich the lives and standard of living of the super-rich (even foreign)! Libya and Afghanistan are the only wars I mentioned. Bad people exist and bad people can lead nations; most governments are corrupt but that does not excuse the American Citizen’s tacit-acceptance of Imperialistic Wars. TPTB pull the strings of this government and a lot of bad things happen that most people do not know about because the corporate owned Main-Stream-Media is owned by TPTB. A CNN/Gallup Poll showed 63% of Americans oppose the Afghanistan war. The polls on Americans supporting intervention in Libya are fading from 70% in favor to 47% in favor just in a few weeks. I’ve never excused what Gaddafi is said to have done (I’m still pissed off about the Lockerbie Bomber), or what happened on 9/11, but bombing for Peace is like screwing for virginity. Global Capitalist puppet-masters have their fair share of Imperialistic wars and covert CIA ops, but there are many places worse than Libya that are ignored by Obama and/or the Global Capitalist Corporations because there is no profit in them or they already own that dictator and they don’t want to mess with that profit stream. You’ve got to check out John Perkins “Tales from an Economic Hitman” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7Fzm1hEiDQ

Spooky - open your mind. Here’s a place to start. THE GULLIBLE MIND - http://www.naturalnews.com/032293_gullible_minds.html - Oh yeah, Semper Fi, Aim High, Hooah, Oorah or “The only easy day was yesterday.” I want to thank you for everything you’ve done for me and our country. In war, there are no unwounded soldiers. And btw, Ron Paul/Jesse Ventura in 2012. Maybe you could come to one of our meetings - Lefty Liberal Socialists for Paul/Ventura 2012. http://saynotocorporateamerica.blogspot.com/

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By Say No to Corporate America, May 7, 2011 at 9:24 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

So Spooky wants me to hang! Psychologists call this type of behavior a confirmation bias. Negative responses, personal attacks and insults, are characteristic of this bias. No one wants to hear that their well-thought-out belief is wrong. They react, “How dare you question my decision? Question me? And so on those lines their story and their behavior goes. Spooky says I “infer” things- well, that simply is not true. Spooky twisted everything I wrote in his/her mind, attacked me personally and says I “should be hanged”. At least for now, Spooky, America still has free speech. I will not address all of Spooky’s attack because it is so far off base it is not worthy, but I will make other points now that the opportunity has arisen.

Spooky wrote,
This poster infers in the paragraph starting with, “Obama’s war in Libya….” that the USA, Obama, and American soldiers, are responsible for, if not outright guilty of, the sexual abuse of 8 year old children in Libya. Typical socialist propaganda, becoming way too transparent. Please try a little harder to hide your agenda, will you? Or how about providing some evidence that America could possibly be at fault for the sexual abuse of an 8 year old Libyan child.”
=>In response, The war in Libya is NOT America’s war! Obama entered it on his own. I did not say the USA and American soldiers are responsible for the sexual assault of an 8 year-old child in Libya. I said “Obama’s Humanitarian bombing is not helping civilians” and “the charity could not say which side the soldiers were from”. These rapes and assaults by soldiers happened within the last 4 weeks, so yeah, the bombing isn’t helping when atrocities like that happen. Obama says US soldiers are not on the ground in Libya. So it is either the “Rebels” (AlQaeda-AntiGovernment)” or “Gaddafi’s (ProGovernment) soldiers. Reports say as many as 1000 of the rebels are al-Qaeda but who knows because Obama and the MSM aren’t telling. The leader of Libya’s rebel forces, Khalifa Hifter, has lived near Quantico, VA in the US for the past 20 years (CIA). Despite what Obama says, the US is central in this war in Libya, and we are paying some of the tab. This is why the USA has a legislative process for going to war. Senator Obama comments on Bush’s Iraq said, “The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.” Humanitarian bombing is not humanitarian. Americans are not directly to blame for the assaults on civilians and children by soldiers, WAR IS. And in Libya, Obama has truly illegally sanctioned that war! Americans may indirectly bear some blame for allowing their Chief Executive to sanction an illegal war in the first place. But who can really blame them when “Dancing With The Stars” is getting so exciting. And if you think it is ok because of a UN resolution, I have to reiterate, Obama works for the US Citizens-not the UN! No one in the UN aside from the US contingent got to vote for Obama. The UN is not the boss of the US Government. As I said before, several innocent children were killed in Libya and Afghanistan that same weekend so why doesn’t Dionne talk about that “gutsy” move by Obama. Let us not forget the illegal drone attacks on Pakistan and Yemen by Obama’s covert ops (957 civilians killed in Pakistan in 2010 alone). To clarify, 3 children were killed and several more injured in Afghanistan and Gaddafi’s 3 grandchildren were killed in Libya (all under 12). 9 boys were killed by US troops while they, and one other boy were collecting firewood. These are all too common casualties of war and I do not like war. Wars based on lies, wars for oil, gold and pipelines are wrong! My only agenda is PEACE and that ain’t comin’ from Obama! The US government creates men like binLaden, and continuing wars create more wars when that is all children know. (cont)

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By Anarcissie, May 7, 2011 at 7:03 am Link to this comment

If people thought Mr. O was a peace candidate, they failed to read the small print on the side of the box.

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By christian96, May 7, 2011 at 6:34 am Link to this comment

A close friend and fraternity brother lost his wife
in the Twin Towers on 9/11.  However, would we have
gathered more information about terrorist by taking
Osama Bin Laden alive or by killing him?  The obvious
answer is by taking him alive.  Then, I’m confronted
with the question, “Why did the Navy Seal kill him?”
Most Navy Seals are known for their muscles, weapons,
and courage but not known for their intellect.  So
it is most likely the Navy Seal that killed Osama did
so after receiving an order from higher up the ranks.
How high up?  Who denied our security people the
information which could have been gathered from an
alive Osama?  Who made the decision to kill him and
rob us of the inforation?  That’s a question I would
like answered!

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By Spooky-43, May 7, 2011 at 2:37 am Link to this comment

By Say No to Corporate America, May 6 at 3:10 pm

“Obama’s war in Libya has led a charity group (Save the Children) to Libya and their findings are horrific….....”
———————————————————————————

The article by Dionne should be ended with, “I am Barack Obama, and I approved this message”

But most of the comments, political propaganda in their own way, are far worse than the article.  One of the worst coming from the above poster, “Say No to Corporate America”

This poster infers in the paragraph starting with, “Obama’s war in Libya….”  that the USA, Obama, and American soldiers, are responsible for, if not outright guilty of, the sexual abuse of 8 year old children in Libya. 

Typical socialist propaganda, becoming way too transparent.  Please try a little harder to hide your agenda, will you?  Or how about providing some evidence that America could possibly be at fault for the sexual abuse of an 8 year old Libyan child.

I wonder if we could say how many children around the world were ever killed by AK-47 bullets.  Could the communists ever be responsible for any deaths?  Or does your perverted ideology not let you admit that?

Don’t blame America for the absolutely polluted corruption evident in every single corner of the world.  This corruption is not caused by America or corporatism.  It is caused by polluted humans who occupy positions in corrupt governments and corrupt corporations everywhere.  It is humans of every single race who are corrupt, including those who write misleading articles for propaganda purposes to promote their criminal ideas, like you.  Am I the first to tell you that you are part of the problem, not part of the solutiion? 

Leftist corruption is not a preferable variety over rightist corruption, except in the eyes of you, the corrupted, lying leftist. To most of us, you should all be hanged, along with your perverted ideologies, your leftist weapons and your rightist weapons, equally guilty as charged.

There are millions of individuals around the world who would do much better without any of your ideologies, me and millions of other Americans included.

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By drbhelthi, May 7, 2011 at 1:24 am Link to this comment

Some of us have “known” who Obama is, since his pre-election to Senator.

“But because he ordered this attack, and because it was successful,
(Dionne)
Successful? 
How? 
Signing off on a concensus to spend a quarter-million to murder a dying
old man who was provided sanctuary in a U.S.Gov. quartier, simply
because he was a “double” for Osama bin Laden, is successful? 
Successful, only in view of the summary statement of Bill Casey, “We’ll
know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American
public believes is false,” from his first general staff meeting, 1981.

“ - no one will ever view Barack Obama in quite the same way again.”
Oh? 
Depends on ones education and experience. 
A few of us – perhaps more than a few - perceive no alteration in his
behavioural pattern, rather expect such continued dishonesty from his
thirty-year pattern, since the age of 19.

Prudence is defined as “—for example, making sure that additional
helicopters were available to our Navy SEALs.” 
Oh?  The U.S.Military was not involved in preparation?
“Our” Navy SEALs? 
Another insult to Americans, the S.E.A.L., perhaps USNavy leadership.

“Obama is not a moralist” is one of the accurate statements, and can be
extended to cover all areas of morality, including “inhumane” behavior. 
Who is Bradley Manning? 

“And anyone who doubted our willingness to project our might as we see
fit will have second thoughts after the events in Abbottabad.” 
“Our”, a repeated misuse of the term, as well as misinterpretation of an
event.

“This single action does not “change everything -”.
Indeed, it changes no-thing for some of us.
Mister B.H.Obama is a Kenyan of mixed parentage, illegally promoted to
the U.S.Presidency, falsely elected on his pre-election promises, all B-
R-O-K-E-N, who continues to insult the U.S.Constitution while continuing
the NAZIFICATION of America & the Western World.
Who is Bradley Manning?

Where is the “change”?
Other than the obvious decision of E.J. Dionne, Jr. to jump into the
cesspool?
After reading the article twice, I tend to conclude that comrade Dionne
has decided that his literary skills are worthy of the position of press
secretary to the Obama entourage.

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By Gary Mont, May 6, 2011 at 11:54 pm Link to this comment

Virginia777:Are you kidding me??? The guy trashes Obama all the time.
—-
RE: “E.J. Dione Jr. should be writing for the White House PR folks” - G.Mont
—-

Its possible I misconstrued the purpose of the article - it is my first reading of anything written by E.J. Dione Jr..

Perhaps the article was a purer form of sacrcasm than I’m familiar with, because it sure sounded like hero worship for a man who has done as much to turn America into Naziland as did Bush Sr., Jr., or Richard the Dick Cheney.

Perhaps my satire detector has begun to malfunction from reading through all the talking points about how the apparent Murder of a defunct CIA asset has somehow become a brave and patriotic deed performed by Resident Obama.

Its possible I suppose.

Nonetheless, the article turned my stomach.

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By Virginia777, May 6, 2011 at 11:25 pm Link to this comment

SoTexGuy:

“A little moralizing from him might be in order.”

How about a little less moralizing from you?

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By Virginia777, May 6, 2011 at 10:57 pm Link to this comment

Gary Mont:

“E.J. Dione Jr. should be writing for the White House PR folks”

Are you kidding me???

The guy trashes Obama all the time.

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By Virginia777, May 6, 2011 at 10:54 pm Link to this comment

So thats the Obama you’ve been looking for, E.J. Dionne, Jr.

Jeez. “Now” we know???

Give me a break.

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By charrob, May 6, 2011 at 9:41 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

>>“But because he ordered this attack, and because it was successful, no one will ever view Barack Obama in quite the same way again.”

On the contrary.  I knew he was a warmonger from the first time I heard him speak.  That’s why i didn’t vote for him.

Ordering the murder of OBL changes nothing.  However, had Obama instead changed the foreign policy that led OBL to order the 9/11 attacks, now that would have changed a lot.  And that would have been reason to celebrate.

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By LostHills, May 6, 2011 at 8:46 pm Link to this comment

Osamabama-busharama…........ who gives a sheet?
Their war is destroying our world.
I ain’t dancin’ in the street.

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By Gary Mont, May 6, 2011 at 8:28 pm Link to this comment

What a piece of utter tripe.

I seriously never expected to read such crap in a TruthDig article.

E.J. Dione Jr. should be writing for the White House PR folks - which may indeed be the goal of this piece of patriotic hero worship.

Wasted air.

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By John P. Teschke, May 6, 2011 at 6:22 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“TDoff” is correct. Obama is far more gutsy when attacking foreign enemies by means that may themselves constitute acts of war and or war crimes than he is holding prior US rule of law violators accountable. In fact, this is another fundamental violation of the rule of law itself, according to international, rather than suspect internal, standards. Obama is nothing more than a more pleasant looking CEO running the same odious regime begun during the Bush era.

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By MarthaA, May 6, 2011 at 5:58 pm Link to this comment

Kanomi Blake, May 6 at 5:23 pm,

To whom are you speaking?

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By MarthaA, May 6, 2011 at 5:51 pm Link to this comment

Birch, May 6 at 3:58 pm,

It’s over a year before the election, if that was Obama’s plan he
would have done like the Republicans and saved the killing of Osama
bin Laden until August 2012 or September 2012, just before the
election for the greatest impact, which is what Republicans always do
with their fear and terror CIA films to remind us that we need them to
save us from fear and terror, but Obama has protected us, so who
needs Republicans.

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By Kanomi Blake, May 6, 2011 at 5:23 pm Link to this comment

Take your Washington Post, Establishment propaganda and shove it down the gaping orifice of your lying mouth-tube.

All you do is lie.

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By ScottW, May 6, 2011 at 4:34 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Mr. Dionne’s press release, I mean column, says more about the state of journalism than Mr. Obama’s execution of OBL.  Mr. Obama follows in a long line of American Presidents who engage in the killing of innocent civilians all in the name of [fill in the blank with the rationale du jour].  The MSM used to occasionally question a President’s moral judgment in launching strikes against innocent people, but no more.  So long as the Administration declares the bomb was aimed at suspected terrorists, no matter how many innocent folks are killed, no questions are raised.  Disgusting and depressing.

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By MarthaA, May 6, 2011 at 4:26 pm Link to this comment

Republicans certainly won’t, and we will see if Obama will be able to
get people employed by November 2012, because employment is the
kicker and not McDonald’s jobs that do not pay enough for one
person to survive much less a family.

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By nestoffour, May 6, 2011 at 4:16 pm Link to this comment

wow, great, now he can get re-elected.

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By LocalHero, May 6, 2011 at 4:15 pm Link to this comment

He’s just another lapdog at the beck-and-call of the
blood-thirsty, mercenary-industrial complex. If you’ve
been paying any attention at all, that’s something
we’ve known for two full years. What’s so new about
that, genius?

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By Birch, May 6, 2011 at 3:58 pm Link to this comment

So just before an upcoming election, he plays the military hero
card - nothing new about that - Clinton did it, the Bushes did
it as well as most of our other Presidents. And it all comes on
an avalanche of lies and disinformation, which the CIA-
military guys all do so well. Remember the Jessica Lynch
episode or Pat Tillman? All covered in lies. What is sad is the
contempt in which our leaders hold the public. They always
count that we will be easily gulled by whatever lies they pull
out of the hat. What they count on is that the first lies spoken
will be remembered by the public, not withstanding the
number of retractions and corrections they subsequently have
to make.  The media is now swooning over the new “macho”
Obama, just like they did over George H.W. Bush just after the
first Gulf War. But Bush’s macho didn’t carrying him through
the following election and maybe Obama’s won’t either,
because many of his erstwhile supporters have had it.

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By thethirdman, May 6, 2011 at 3:34 pm Link to this comment

Bill Ayers is a really, really nice guy, by the way.

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By thethirdman, May 6, 2011 at 3:33 pm Link to this comment

I agree with you Anarcissie.  Nothing has struck me as “out of character.”

I spoke with Bill Ayers when he came out to Hawai`i.  He was asked if President
Obama was the same Obama he knew from Chicago.  He told us that Obama
has always been the same politician.  It was the naivety of the Left who
projected all of their anti-Bush hopes into one man.  The current anger of the
Left reflects their own foolishness for being taken so easily.  Obama has always
been crafty in his political expediency and is one smart cookie to boot.  Since
our chat, I went back to look at Obama’s words from the past.  He may have
told a few fibs about Guantanamo, but his actions as president seem to match
his rhetoric quite well.

“Obama’s conceptual complexity means that he rejects the idea that there are
just two alternatives: the United States as the world’s sole superpower, or an
America slinking off into weakness and irrelevance. Binary choices are not for
him.”

I don’t know about the rest of you, but that is exactly what I want in my
president.

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By Rogelio, May 6, 2011 at 3:31 pm Link to this comment

I voted for President Obama, and I firmly stand by my decision. Unfortunately for Obama, he inherited two wars, one with merit and the other without, as well as an economic recession. Should we assume that had McCain won, that our nation would be any better off?

Both Democrats and Republicans are to blame for this economic, politcal, and social crisis that our nation confronts.

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By prisnersdilema, May 6, 2011 at 3:16 pm Link to this comment

Yes, no one knew who they were voting for. Which makes Obama a fraud. He swindled
the the American people out of health care reform and made presidential lying the new
normal.

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By Say No to Corporate America, May 6, 2011 at 3:14 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Even if the story about bin Laden’s killing is true… wait, which story? Truth does not change! Even if Obama’s latest version of the story is true, Obama did nothing gutsy!  He was many miles away, watching from the safety of the situation room.  Obama was not busting in killing unarmed people. The fact he is given so much credit for this shows it is being used for political gain. Even if Obama directed the Seal’s actions (not possible), a President is not defined by one single act regardless if it’s good or bad, but by a collection of actions, laws and Executive Orders… most of which have been done these past years are extremely detrimental to humanity! 

Several innocent children were killed by US bullets and bombs in Libya and Afghanistan that same weekend, the same day in fact.  So why don’t you talk about that “gutsy” move by Obama?

Obama’s war in Libya has led a charity group (Save the Children) to Libya and their findings are horrific. They talked to about 300 kids and families living in camps in Benghazi. They reported children as young as 8 have been sexually assaulted and children have seen their mothers raped and fathers killed. The children say they WERE ASSAULTED BY SOLDIERS! The Charity “COULD NOT” SAY WHICH SIDE the SOLDIERS WERE FROM. Why can’t they say? Who is keeping an American charity from telling details? THE ASSAULTS HAVE OCCURRED DURING THE PAST 4 WEEKS - So, you see Obama’s Humanitarian bombing is NOT helping civilians! Add that to Obama’s continuing wars and illegal CIA ops in other nations, illegal drone attacks across the Middle East that kill civilians 90% of the time, the continual loss of American Rights, Freedoms and Liberties, pro-corporate actions (tax-cuts for rich and 40+ CEO/lobbyist appointments)... those awful acts say more about how Obama should be viewed! That’s not the change I voted for!

Even the Americans that are gullible enough to believe every word from Obama will see thorough this latest web of deceit as the story continues to fall apart.  Obama’s claim of mission accomplished is too early for 2012 elections but I suppose it did distract from child rapes and killings… and it took attention away from Obama’s (9-layered) birth certificate (I wasn’t even interested in his BC until he released a “forensic forgery”).  Years of people asking for proof of birth should have clued Obama into the fact they will also want, and deserve, proof Osama is dead, again.

This article is a political advertisement and it is wrong. We know Obama is a puppet. I suppose it was written for free because I do not see “paid political advertisement” posted anywhere.  Therefore, this single ad has lost credibility for Truthdig.

People need to dig for the truth about Obama and everything the US government says.  QUESTION EVERYTHING!  Wake up America!

saynotocorporateamerica.blogspot.com

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By Say No to Corporate America, May 6, 2011 at 3:10 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Even if the story about bin Laden’s killing is true… wait, which story? Truth does not change! Even if Obama’s latest version of the story is true, Obama did nothing gutsy!  He was many miles away, watching from the safety of the situation room.  Obama was not busting in killing unarmed people. The fact he is given so much credit for this shows it is being used for political gain. Even if Obama directed the Seal’s actions (not possible), a President is not defined by one single act regardless if it’s good or bad, but by a collection of actions, laws and Executive Orders… most of which have been done these past years are extremely detrimental to humanity! 

Several innocent children were killed by US bullets and bombs in Libya and Afghanistan that same weekend, the same day in fact.  So why don’t you talk about that “gutsy” move by Obama?

Obama’s war in Libya has led a charity group (Save the Children) to Libya and their findings are horrific. They talked to about 300 kids and families living in camps in Benghazi. They reported children as young as 8 have been sexually assaulted and children have seen their mothers raped and fathers killed. The children say they WERE ASSAULTED BY SOLDIERS! The Charity “COULD NOT” SAY WHICH SIDE the SOLDIERS WERE FROM. Why can’t they say? Who is keeping an American charity from telling details? THE ASSAULTS HAVE OCCURRED DURING THE PAST 4 WEEKS - So, you see Obama’s Humanitarian bombing is NOT helping civilians! Add that to Obama’s continuing wars and illegal CIA ops in other nations, illegal drone attacks across the Middle East that kill civilians 90% of the time, the continual loss of American Rights, Freedoms and Liberties, pro-corporate actions (tax-cuts for rich and 40+ CEO/lobbyist appointments)... those awful acts say more about how Obama should be viewed! That’s not the change I voted for!

Even the Americans that are gullible enough to believe every word from Obama will see thorough this latest web of deceit as the story continues to fall apart.  Obama’s claim of mission accomplished is too early for 2012 elections but I suppose it did distract from child rapes and killings… and it took attention away from Obama’s (9-layered) birth certificate (I wasn’t even interested in his BC until he released a “forensic forgery”).  Years of people asking for proof of birth should have clued Obama into the fact they will also want, and deserve, proof Osama is dead, again.

This article is a political advertisement and it is wrong. We know Obama is a puppet. I suppose it was written for free because I do not see “paid political advertisement” posted anywhere.  Therefore, this single ad has lost credibility for Truthdig.

People need to dig for the truth about Obama and everything the US government says.  QUESTION EVERYTHING!  http://saynotocorporateamerica.blogspot.com/

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By Dameocrat, May 6, 2011 at 2:58 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

He is the sort of neocon dem we were trying to throw out of the party when we campaigned against Lieberman.

He is the sort of warmonger the voters rejected when we chose him over Hillary Clinton.

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By Anarcissie, May 6, 2011 at 2:30 pm Link to this comment

Nothing I have heard about the supposed execution of the supposed Osama bin Laden strikes me out of character for Mr. O.  Although he is a cautious, conservative person, at least as a political actor, he is perfectly willing to take a chance on bold action if he thinks the odds are good and the payoff worthwhile.  His conservatism is revealed as not only as a matter of character but a matter of choice.

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By tyroneslothrop, May 6, 2011 at 1:58 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

to Big B:

I don’t know where you live, but here in NY, we didn’t think of 9/11 as an “international incident”.

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By Artsy, May 6, 2011 at 1:37 pm Link to this comment

I do not believe any of this story. There is no body so there is no proof that he is dead. NONE. The DNA is just a pile of terrorist hooha. Weapons of mass destruction were never found either but it did not stop the war mongers. This story will be used for all it is worth to escalate the fraudulent “war on terror”. Halliburton stock soars while the media bores us to death with endless nonsense! Everyone should demand absolute truth.

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By JJW, May 6, 2011 at 1:25 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

How many innocent people were killed over the past ten years in pursuit of this one guy, who wasn’t exactly in charge of an army and couldn’t even afford a single fighter jet or war ship.

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By ce2756, May 6, 2011 at 1:05 pm Link to this comment

This does not address the fact that Obama lied to us
about nearly every aspect of the killing of bin Laden. 
At least Dubya constructed a lie that could hold
together for a few days.  Remember WMDs?  That was a
lie that could stand.  It had legs.
Obama’s credibility is somewhere between that of used
car salesmen and serial killers.

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By jomo, May 6, 2011 at 12:58 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Most if not ALL men are egomaniacs and “Political Animals” are the most egocentric of all.  My “take” on the events of the last ten days . . . Obama was privy to the same info that Bush had regarding the whereabouts of Bin Laden.  Yet it was in the interest of the U.S. anti-terrorist militaristic collective mindset to claim, for the past several years, that Bin Laden was hiding in the caves of Afghanistan or was no longer alive.

Suddenly when The Donald (Trump) started attacking Obama and (calling his Administration ‘stupid’) Obama could no longer tolerate the personal berating nor the ridicule of the Office of the Presidency.  He and his closest advisors decided to risk ALL and to invade the “secret compound” in Pakistan.  If it was successful it would be a huge and strategic “coup” for Obama (now actually enjoying the power associated with the Presidency).  How much of this action was fabricated and how much was considered absolutely necessary to preserving the illusion of grandeur i.e. (the most powerful Nation on earth) is still unknown.

One thing is evident, as has been the case with so much of revisionist history; there is much hubris involved and the sensationalist stories unfolding via the media arewidely varied.  It is detestable to hear that the code name for Bin Laden used by the Seals was “Geranamo”.  Nothing new there either, however. The story of the indigenous people of North America is a tragic one.  The U.S. has been commiting genocide against indiginous peoples for all of its existence. Most recently hundreds of thousands of innocent people have died in Iraq, Afghanistan and now apparently even some in Pakistan, in the name of “capturing Bin Laden” and avenging the story of 9/11.  The U.S. has continued its role as an aggressive Super Power controlled by mostly men but even some women of little conscience.

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By rollzone, May 6, 2011 at 12:58 pm Link to this comment

hello. crappy adulation piece to the “obama” so many of
us said while trying to say “osama”. the turd will
flush in 2012.

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By Jim, May 6, 2011 at 12:46 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“And anyone who doubted our willingness to project our might as we see fit will have second thoughts after the events in Abbottabad.”

Truthdig promotes this type of thinking??? Sad.

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By Rogelio, May 6, 2011 at 12:44 pm Link to this comment

The most moral person is equally the most immoral person. President Obama had no choice but to execute bin Laden because he knew that if we were ever going to accomplish our mission, that we would need to do it without the assistance of the Pakistanese.

I guess as we look back, maybe Obama should have told the world of his secret mission and let the United Nations decide what action to take. Or better yet, let the Repbulicans and Democrats debate the issue for weeks/months on end.

In time of war, morality needs to temporarily step aside. Sadly, I firmly believe that all of this disgust and hatred for President Obama has more to do with our economic recession and unpopularity. Had teflon w. Bush accomplished the feat, then America would have blindly accepted his victory.

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By Jim, May 6, 2011 at 12:43 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Please explain to me why Truthdif publishes E.J. Dionne? I thought this was a Progressive site? The crap he writes should remain in the MSM and NPR (National Pentagon Radio).

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By Cathy, May 6, 2011 at 12:37 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I clicked in this hoping to find that E.J. Dionne was finally discovering what a creep Obama is—and creep is a mild tone when you consider the week’s happenings—and instead I find more tripe.  The Obama has no moral character.  As far as Bin Laden, if it was Bin Laden they killed (and he hasn’t been dead already lo these many years), the whole thing stinks—plain stinks.  Nobody wanted this man on trial—God forbid the sheeple in this country would discover that both Bin Laden and Al-Quaida were a constructed of the U.S. Government way back in the day.  We don’t know definitively if he was responsible for 9-11, but maybe that doesn’t matter.  Maybe Dionne should question why Bush said Bin Laden was irrelevant six months after 9-11.  It’s not hard to find out. 

Meanwhile, the sheeple are being told all kinds of scary things to keep the fear high.  The killing will go on nonstop.

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