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What’s the GOP Without bin Laden?

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Posted on May 10, 2011
AP / Charles Dharapak

Catch him if you can: President Barack Obama greets military personnel before addressing troops last Friday at Fort Campbell, Ky.

By Robert Scheer

Pity Bill O’Reilly and the rest of the Republican right wing led by the forlorn slate of candidates gearing up to challenge Barack Obama in the next presidential election. They lost their cherished patriotism card as a means of deflecting attention from an economy that exploded on their watch. Beating up on Medicare won’t cut it as a platform when you don’t have the specter of Osama bin Laden to scare voters.

Unfortunately Obama, too, was quite willing to rush off to escalate unnecessary wars, as in the ramped-up conflict with the Taliban in Afghanistan, while bin Laden was being protected by our ally Pakistan. But for the moment there is joy in witnessing the more zealous Republican hard-liners humbled by the success of a president they continuously derided as weak on defense.

There is no sane way for them to explain away how the brainy Democrat with the questioned citizenship and the oddball, Muslim-sounding name, who had dared originally to doubt the wisdom of invading Iraq, ended up succeeding where a warmongering, patriotism-on-my-lapel, Republican president had failed so miserably.

The death of bin Laden in Pakistan renders ever more ludicrous that iconic image of then-President George W. Bush strutting aboard an aircraft carrier under a banner proclaiming “Mission accomplished.” What mission had this Wrong Way Corrigan accomplished except irrationally invading Iraq, a country that had banned al-Qaida, while he cozied up to a Pakistan that had long provided bin Laden and his Taliban sponsors with critical support?

Just how long was revealed in a State Department memo declassified in 2007 that said the Pakistani government had been supporting the Taliban at least since 1995—even under ostensibly pro-U.S. Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, whose husband now runs the country. “Pakistan has followed a policy of supporting the Taliban,” noted one State Department cable, adding, “U.S. intelligence indicates the ISI is supplying the Taliban forces with munitions, fuel and food.” ISI refers to the hugely powerful and secretive Inter-Services Intelligence agency, which backed bin Laden from his first emergence in Afghanistan and is the most likely explanation for his having received such secure sanctuary in Pakistan after 9/11.

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It was always Pakistan’s secret service agency that guided bin Laden from the first days, when the CIA recruited him to be one of the “freedom fighters” whom President Ronald Reagan bragged about supporting when they were our Cold War pawns in battling the Soviets. And, as should have been expected, it was Pakistan that provided him with a hiding place when he went on the run after the 9/11 attacks. Not only did Bush not challenge Pakistan, or Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, the two other countries that diplomatically recognized the Taliban government while it harbored bin Laden, but he dropped the sanctions that the U.S had imposed on Pakistan in response to its developing nuclear weapons.

Remember those weapons of mass destruction that were the excuse for invading Iraq, even though President Bush knew full well that Saddam Hussein didn’t have any? Well, Pakistan did and has more today. Thanks to our providing its people with advanced aircraft, Pakistan also has the means to deliver those nukes on targets far and wide. The scary thing is that the same Islamic militants in the Pakistani military who protected bin Laden have access to that nuclear arsenal.

It was also Pakistan—through the efforts of Abdul Qadeer Khan, the “father of the Islamic bomb”—that supplied North Korea, Iran and Libya with the means to attempt to build nuclear arsenals of their own. Khan’s vast nuclear smuggling network could not have flourished without the support of Pakistan’s military. Even after his network was exposed by U.S. intelligence, Khan was protected under house arrest by Bush’s ally Prime Minister Gen. Pervez Musharraf and then was granted a full pardon.

Pakistan’s nuclear program had caused President Bill Clinton to impose sanctions in retaliation, so why did Bush lift them after the 9/11 attacks? Because, Bush claimed, Pakistan was an indispensable ally in the hunt for bin Laden. Some ally, given that bin Laden was in that country most of the time he was on the lam and in the last eight years lived in its most fortified military town, a kilometer away from Pakistan’s equivalent of West Point.

Clearly, the critique of the Bush policy provided by candidate Obama proved correct; terrorism is to be defeated through skilled intelligence and surgical strikes, not colonial invasions and conventional war. Obama needs now to apply that wisdom to bringing Bush’s folly in Iraq, and his own escalation in Afghanistan, to a swift end.

Click here to check out Robert Scheer’s book,
“The Great American Stickup: How Reagan Republicans and Clinton Democrats Enriched Wall Street While Mugging Main Street.”


Keep up with Robert Scheer’s latest columns, interviews, tour dates and more at www.truthdig.com/robert_scheer.



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JDmysticDJ's avatar

By JDmysticDJ, May 17, 2011 at 6:03 pm Link to this comment

Leefeller

Seeing as how our political views are very similar there must be something else at play here, don’t you think? Comparing someone who believes religious thought is metaphysical, to Osama bin Laden, is fanatical, don’t you think?

Your reliance on the example of Osama bin Laden causes me to ask, “What’s the Leefeller without bin Laden?”

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By Leefeller, May 17, 2011 at 9:28 am Link to this comment

Religions as politics seem but hound dogmas of blind beliefs or the fanatical cause. Osama ben Laden had his dogma and it ate him too!

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M Henri Day's avatar

By M Henri Day, May 17, 2011 at 6:58 am Link to this comment

Apologies accepted, JDmysticDJ ; I suspect that neither Central Asian geography nor Central Asian history is a priority subject in US schools - at least not until the US government decides to attack one of the countries belonging to the region - and as that is not (yet ?) the case with Mongolia, your confusing it with Manchuria, which is, after all, a neighbour to the East, is hardly surprising (and my apologies to you if you have been educated elsewhere). In any event, one can’t help wondering what the inhabitants of Mongolia think about this project, negotiations for which seem to have been held secret at least partially due to a fear that it would not be well received there (http://nuclear-news.net/2011/05/10/us-japan-nuclear-marketing-scheme-with-secret-plans-for-mongolian-waste-dump/). If the comments posted to this article on Yahoo news (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110509/wl_nm/us_energy_nuclear_mongolia) are at all representative of sentiment in that country, it would seem that the parties did indeed have reason to keep the negotiations secret….

But we have strayed a bit from the topic of Mr Bin Laden and the US Republican Party, haven’t we ?...

Henri

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By JDmysticDJ, May 17, 2011 at 6:35 am Link to this comment

Leefeller

It’s that religious thing isn’t it?! You’re still jawing about the religious thing aren’t you? Isn’t religion metaphysical? You are fanatically opposed to the metaphysics of religion.

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By Leefeller, May 17, 2011 at 3:40 am Link to this comment

Oh! What a thought!

May I suggest fanatics have beliefs which are fanatical, chock full of abolitionisms, as in being full of themselves, which means they do not need or want truths, facts and reality are absent, for they only require and need their most certain and absolute beliefs.

Discussion with a fanatic is useless, fanatics feel they may have been slighted, shorted or feel bad as an individual in some way, so blame or accusatory tools seem a staple of fanatics, nothing else is important except their beliefs.

Collectivity of the fanatic is important, for them their individuality no longer exists, they feed on the collective group as a flock in a church or the pack of the KKK and even the school fish mentality of Tea Baggers all seem fanatical to me.

In the end fanatics have their absolutist certainty, their belief to guide them, so this is the way it is,... I am absolutely sure about this,  that is to say a Religious fanatic is no different than a political fanatic, except their beliefs may differ on subject.

So in discussions of differences there is really no discussion at all, with a fanatic, for the fanatic is always right, this means opposing ideas, differences of opinions are always wrong in the mind of the fanatic, sadly we seem to live in a world full of fanatics.

I believe this with absolute certainty!

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By JDmysticDJ, May 16, 2011 at 4:48 pm Link to this comment

Trudigger 3

Of course I’m not willing to agree that I “got that wrong,” but I’ll remember your assertion.

Obama called the Banksters Fat Cats, and Roosevelt called them “Economic Royalists. Some people reject Roosevelt, The Kennedys, Michael Moore, Amy Goodman, Noam Chomsky etc. Without such as these, who’s left?

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By JDmysticDJ, May 16, 2011 at 4:26 pm Link to this comment

M Henri Day

My bad, Mongolia not Manchuria.

“TOKYO — Japan and the United States plan to jointly build a spent nuclear fuel storage facility in Mongolia to serve customers of their nuclear plant exporters, pushing ahead despite Japan’s prolonged nuclear crisis, the Mainichi daily said on Monday.”

“TOKYO (Reuters) – Japan and the United States plan to jointly build a spent nuclear fuel storage facility in Mongolia to serve customers of their nuclear plant exporters, pushing ahead despite Japan’s prolonged nuclear crisis, the Mainichi daily said on Monday.

A Trade Ministry official said Japan, U.S. and Mongolia officials, at a meeting shortly before Japan’s March 11 earthquake, informally discussed possible construction of a nuclear waste storage facility for countries with nuclear power plants but no spent fuel storage capability of their own.”

Wall Street Journal – Business
By PETER LANDERS

“WASHINGTON—The U.S. and Japan confirmed Monday that they have held discussions with Mongolia about nuclear waste management, but both denied that they have any plans to send their spent nuclear fuel to the lightly populated Asian nation.”

My bad.

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By truedigger3, May 16, 2011 at 2:52 pm Link to this comment

More Reply to: By JDmysticDJ, May 16 at 9:32 am

JDmysticDJ wrote:

I will however state my belief that a characteristic of that War’s instigators from Europe was a hatred of liberals by Generalissimo Franco, El Duce, and Adolph, and their respective boys. Not to be ignored is the hatred of liberals by the hated far-left, according to my analysis. As it turned out, hatred of the far-left took precedence over other hatreds, a sad fact of that era is that many from the not so Left, and not Left allied themselves with the Right when all was said and done. I fear a similar alliance occurring in our country, but I am not suggesting that there will be, or won’t be, similarities in magnitude, only certain similarities. However, I believe that it would be difficult to convince the victims of current wars that the magnitudes are all that much different.
——————————————————————————

JDmysticDJ,

You got that wrong. The reason for WW2 is that the ruling elites in the West, whether they were liberals or conservatives, allowed and to some extent initially financed Germany to re-arm hoping that the fiercely anti-communism Fascist Germany will attack the Soviet Union and engage in bloody destructive war with it, that will bleed both of them almost to death, that no matter which one of them is the winner it will be easy to attack and defeat.
It is like striking two birds with one stone.  The unexpected and completey sudden, the signing of the Russian German cooperation treaty in August 1939 threw a monkey wrench into that plan and the rest is history.
There is a big difference between the liberals of the thirties and current day liberals. The former believed in taming and containing the excesses of capitalism and allowing the working classes to share, to some extent, in the wealth. The aim was to protect capitaism from itsself and make it sustainable.
The current day liberals, regardless of their bullshitting rhetoric, believe in letting capitalism run amock and the hell with the middle class and the working people.
All what concern current day liberals is cultural issues like freedom of choice, gays and lisbian issues, prayers in the shools etc etc. I think, but I am not sure that they might care about civil rights and race issues, but definitely they don’t care about civil liberties or due process of the law.
Both the current day liberals and conservatives have exactly the same foreign policies.

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By truedigger3, May 16, 2011 at 1:51 pm Link to this comment

By JDmysticDJ, May 16 at 9:32 am

JDmysticDJ wrote:

“Briefly I’ll comment that those such as “TD3 and company” who object to the tyranny of presidents and their administrations, don’t really object to tyranny, it’s the specific kind of tyranny they object to.”
———————————————————————

JDmysticDJ,

NO JDmysticDJ NO. What I am objecting to is that Team Obama and the Democratic party’s leadership are in bed with the Republicans and both of them are in complete collusion and partnership serving the Finance/Corporate elites’ desires and dictates.
In short, Team Obama is another Republican version and there is no difference whatsoever between the Republicans and Democrats.
Neither anybody nor I mentioned anything about what you call “tyranny”.

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By MaxShields, May 16, 2011 at 10:38 am Link to this comment

By JDmysticDJ, May 16 at 9:32 am

Your points are well taken, with an exception “However, he just might be privileged to information that we are not…”

(I understand you are not using that as a reason.)

Having said this (even if you don’t agree with it)I feel compelled to counter that this “he knows what we don’t know” argument has been going on for ever. It has allowed us to sleep at the switch or as a public, to blink just enough to let this kind of warmaking go on.

History shows us that it’s not so much what they know, but WHAT THEY MAKE UP (manufacturing consent sound familiar). So most of the stuff that gets us off to war is total fabrications.

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M Henri Day's avatar

By M Henri Day, May 16, 2011 at 10:17 am Link to this comment

Mysticism is one thing, JDmysticDJ, but let us stick to the facts : neither the Japanese (i e, our old friends, TEPCO, et consortes) nor Mr Obama are «negotiating a nuclear waste dump sight in Manchuria», which happens to be one of the names by which the three north-eastern provinces of China is known. What you refer to above is rather the nuclear fuel reprocessing plant at Rokkasho (????) in Japan’s own Northeast, which is sometimes referred to as «Japan’s Manchuria» (the historically interested will remember that the Japanese attempt to take over the Chinese original ended badly). Forbes recently published an article (http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2011/0425/technology-rokkasho-japan-electric-nuclear-disaster.html) on this plant, which, among other things, produces some eight tonnes of plutonium annually (for comparison, the Fat Man bomb dropped on Nagasaki contained about 6.2 kilogrammes of plutonium) - just the sort of thing one needs to know in order to sleep soundly at night….

Henri

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By JDmysticDJ, May 16, 2011 at 9:32 am Link to this comment

First let me say that my disgust with Obama grows exponentially. He is not only giving the Republicans what they have been screaming for regarding oil drilling, but he is also, in conjunction with the Japanese, negotiating a nuclear waste dump sight in Manchuria in order to facilitate the expansion and proliferation of nuclear power. These new affronts, along with previous affronts, the greatest of which being his war policies, make him a terrible president in my opinion. However, he just might be privileged to information that we are not, which is a very flimsy supposition at best, and if that were the fact, I would resent the fact that he is privileged to information that we are not privileged to.


Leefeller is mad as hell, and he’s not going to take it anymore, but I need to ask what he meant when he wrote,

“Any moron with an IQ above a fly should know united we stand, divided we fall, ...its not divisive we fall… morons!”

I’m almost certain that his anger led to this seemingly incomprehensible statement. I’m thinking he meant, “… It’s not ‘United’ we fall…morons!” or words to that effect, rather than “…...its not divisive we fall… morons!” The need for unity would be an assertion I completely agree with, although I do think the moron assertion is a little too extreme; misguided would be a description more acceptable to me, and perhaps more conducive to unity.

Leefeller also wrote,

“TD3 and company, for some reason, I suspect if your perfect choice for president was elected, I would be surprised if they satisfied your every whim and bitch, unless it was you and you were king, then it would probably be a series of excuses.”

This statement contains a profundity worth expounding upon, in my opinion. Briefly I’ll comment that those such as “TD3 and company” who object to the tyranny of presidents and their administrations, don’t really object to tyranny, it’s the specific kind of tyranny they object to. If they were presidents with appointed administrations they would be all in favor of the tyranny enforced by them.

David J. Cyr makes a convincing argument about the profligacy of liberals, providing that one disregards that his diatribe is based on distortions… so much for unity

I’m being Judgmental I know, which leads to the question, “Is it judgmental, for the Judgmental, to Judge the Judgmental as being Judgmental?” (I think there’s an advocacy for unity there, but I’m not very confident that this question will be well received or understood.)

I nearly made the mistake of presenting a long dissertation on the cause of the Second World War, what preceded the Second World War, and similarities between that War and our current wars, but due to my propensity to be flippant, I feel certain that no one would give credence to a dissertation presented by me. I will however state my belief that a characteristic of that War’s instigators from Europe was a hatred of liberals by Generalissimo Franco, El Duce, and Adolph, and their respective boys. Not to be ignored is the hatred of liberals by the hated far-left, according to my analysis. As it turned out, hatred of the far-left took precedence over other hatreds, a sad fact of that era is that many from the not so Left, and not Left allied themselves with the Right when all was said and done. I fear a similar alliance occurring in our country, but I am not suggesting that there will be, or won’t be, similarities in magnitude, only certain similarities. However, I believe that it would be difficult to convince the victims of current wars that the magnitudes are all that much different.

(cont.)

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By JDmysticDJ, May 16, 2011 at 9:26 am Link to this comment

#2

Given what I have written about Obama, and the realities of Obama, how could I possibly express my preference for Obama, but, as I have stated before ,my preference would be for something other than Obama; something that does not exist in a powerful unified form at the present time. The only viable alternative to Obama at the present time would like to “Bomb, Bomb, Bomb… Bomb, Bomb Iran,” is opposed to Obama’s stated plans for bringing the boys home, would like to turn what’s left of our democracy into a feudal Oligarchy, and would be more inclined to whack a hornet’s nest with a stick in Pakistan. They seem bound and determined to stabilize by destabilizing, as Chomsky puts it, always claiming virtue and the highest of humanitarian concerns, as has always been the case in warring, as Chomsky rightly states. “Even Hitler’s boys claimed the invasion of Poland was justified because of humanitarian concerns,” (I’m paraphrasing.)

I continue to believe that biting the bullet, is preferable to swallowing a bomb soon to explode.

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By Inherit The Wind, May 16, 2011 at 9:11 am Link to this comment

In the last 45 years, there have only been 2 Presidents I rate better than Obama: Carter and Clinton.  As for the rest?  Well, Johnson and Ford had their good points.  But Nixon, Reagan, Bush II and even Bush I just were flat out terrible presidents.

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By Leefeller, May 16, 2011 at 7:02 am Link to this comment

Max, my only argumenet with your last post is the my Mr. Obama part! A bit snarkey?

Hedges does a nice job of calling attention to my Mr. Obama in this weeks Hedges article. Actually I may find it one of Hedges most uncomfortably agreeable articles and maybe one of the most interesting since Hedges went to the PORNfest in Las Vegas. The way things work in the land of Nod, this may make Hedges new article one of his greatest and bestest article ever written and I am not even a member of Hedges family?  After all finding my POV in print means the writer is the bestest, damn writer in the world, this seems so dang annoying catching myself in this awkward double jointed position of agreement with Hedges.

So, I must work diligently to circumvent this horrible uncompromising position I find myself in with my Mr. Obama. Damn it Max, makes it almost sound gay!

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By MaxShields, May 15, 2011 at 2:16 pm Link to this comment

By Leefeller, May 15 at 12:30 pm

While I think I’ve stated this, let me be clear. The system is rotten to the core. Another party would not suffice, no matter how “perfect” the candidate.

There is no perfect, and certainly no simple remedy for what has been growing for many many decades. It appears much of stench was cut back during the Great Depression but it has metastasized into something even worse. It has ensnared the body politic to its core. It has made USA a preditor nation amoung nation-states, to be feared. It creates and proliferates through mass media evil doers that must be killed (or captured) but first premptive strikes are used. It is the land of huge corporate escapades, whereby the purchase our government and it’s elected officials, offering us the candidates of our “choice”.

This is a malignant system. One no alternative party could begin to change without first becoming enmeshed in its tentacles. Mr. Nader, a good man, with keen insights knows in his heart of hearts, what might have been a worthy shot a undoing what has become of this nation, is near impossible. Chomsky has rightly, in my estimation, used the metaphore of the mob when talking about this political system, the military security complex and the corporations who call the shots.

This is not a friendly government. It kills children, and our President plays Mr. Cool as if he’s just broken a sweat from a heated basketball game. Children dismembered…women, elders left to suffer in their blood; infrastructure and services cannot serve them because US military might has destroyed all of it.

No, your Mr. Obama is not perfect he is simply a capo famiglia.

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By Leefeller, May 15, 2011 at 12:30 pm Link to this comment

JD, controversy seems to stem from individual perspective, so it seems to be; if you agree with me or if I agree with you?  Lets just say we both agree.

For me, right now the only game in town is the Democrats, another vote to a third party is a vote down the toilet, I am talking a vote for President.  In some peoples districts they may have some viable Tea bag choices for congress or if lucky an independent with integrity and a degree of smarts. 

TD3 and company, for some reason, I suspect if your perfect choice for president was elected, I would be surprised if they satisfied your every whim and bitch, unless it was you and you were king, then it would probably be a series of excuses.

Yeah, I know yous armchair presidents could do a much better job than Bochman because you may be smarter then her but so is a rock.  Most of those take the money and run Republicans seem little better,  but I doubt very much if yous guys are smarter then Obama,...maybe thats why I give Obama more slack then the smarty paints crowd.

You know JD is right this has been a constant battle here since the least election, I am finding the third party folks
making a lot of noise, but offering nothing with potential for results except more loud whining, ....well except the Tea bags, now thats a third party.

Yeah, Nader would have been a great president, he would have had the Kochs and Republicans wrapped around his little thumb…. Lets face it politics suck so the sound we keep hearing is the same old whiny story over and over again like air escaping from a tire.

Get your third party going and provide some frocking substance to vote for, I bet you guys wouldn’t even agree on anything once the rubber hit the road,... whining is so much more productive and safe. Am I hearing the sound of escaping air!

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By truedigger3, May 15, 2011 at 9:53 am Link to this comment

Re: By Leefeller, May 15 at 8:38 am

Leefeller wrote:

“Hey Max, glad you noticed, thanks for calling attention to my irrelevancy,...been trying to give it up!

vote the Koch party 2012! “
———————————————————————

Leefeller,

Voting for the Koch party or the Obama party is exactly the same thing, without any difference whatsoever.
As MaxShield mentioned, Obama have just approved expanding drilling in the North Pole to include sensitive areas that were off limit befor.!
He just started a new war without even going through the “motions”. Yeah it is a humanitarian war of course! The Afghanistan war is going on full blast. excuse the pun.
Obama is working hard to “reform” Social Security and Medicare and he will “succeed”. How many more examples do you need? There are a lot more!.
Obama is worse than the Koch brother. He is hiding behind his blackness, skillful speeches, toothpaste smile and the so called his progressiveness to deceive and bullshit a lot of naive politically ignorant people. In the koch brothers what you see and hear is what you will get.
OH YEAH. There is a difference. Obama is working on repealing “Don’t ask and don’t tell”. YAY!

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By Leefeller, May 15, 2011 at 9:47 am Link to this comment

Max, I actually do not disagree with your discontent, I am not overjoyed with Obama, but after eight years of GWB, my expectations do not exceed reality. Basically I will take what I can get, as long as it is not a Republican, so get those third parties butts in gear.

I know a mission impossible, without support from the MSN, Koch like money and the classic rampart stupidity of things like Tea Bags.

I also know Obama has been bumping heads with racialism and ignorance, thats why we need to cut back on eduction, so we can have more of the same.

No, I am not overjoyed with Obama, but his uphill battle if real has been unprecedented in the ring of politics. I would vote for someone like Bernie Sanders for president an independent, but in the end he would be fighting the same uphill battle, just from a different starting point.

I realize the screwed if we do and the screwed if we don’t song and dance routine,... when I say we, I mean the unwashed masses,...damn, I just realized yesterday was Saturday.

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By MaxShields, May 15, 2011 at 9:15 am Link to this comment

By Leefeller, May 15 at 8:38 am

I think we already have some noticable likeness in the White House - Drill Baby Drill!

Obama has put, if it was ever necessary, the nail in the coffin of the system providing a curtailment as he has outdone the Republicans on every policy that they were behind when their guy was in office.

Playing this game of - it doesn’t matter what the policies are just what party happens to be preciding over them is beyond bull shit.

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By Leefeller, May 15, 2011 at 8:38 am Link to this comment

Hey Max, glad you noticed, thanks for calling attention to my irrelevancy,...been trying to give it up!

vote the Koch party 2012!

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By MaxShields, May 15, 2011 at 7:38 am Link to this comment

By Leefeller, May 14 at 6:35 pm

You are irrelevant. You have your president.

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By Leefeller, May 15, 2011 at 7:32 am Link to this comment

Am I observing a demented degree of sarcasm or just demented?


Saying nothing but saying it poorly has substance in the mindlessness of the mindless and I am not talking about myself.

Liberals are the problem, because conservatives don’t exist?

Conservatives call the left the loony left for a reason, I see the reason here very often.

Yes, there are morons on the left as there are morons on the right, the morons on the left believe they are right with the absolutism of the Pope and the morons on the right believe they are right because its in their name.

Now I see the problem,... I just never saw it so clearly before, ...it has something to do about being right?

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By David J. Cyr, May 15, 2011 at 5:32 am Link to this comment

Liberals voting for Democrats has ensured that fascism has always won — unchanged for 75 years.

A liberal is someone who hasn’t any ability or will to actually be what they say they are.

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By Inherit The Wind, May 15, 2011 at 5:22 am Link to this comment

Who cares what David Cyr says?  He’s just spouting old-fashioned failed Trotskyite clap-trap, stuff that hasn’t changed in 75 years.

The only difference now is, we’ve seen it fail everywhere and every time it’s implemented.  We KNOW Trotskyite Marxism is a failed concept.

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By David J. Cyr, May 15, 2011 at 4:33 am Link to this comment

For any well informed person capable of reason liberals never had any credibility. With (D) voting liberals having spent decades deballing unions and maintaining masses in a caste condition of poverty, while free-will supporting the metastasizing military-prison industrial complex, before they then provided Obama a massive popular vote mandate to MoveOn to make more wars “necessary” and to make SickCare even sicker, the liberals shouldn’t now be able to get even the slowest learners to believe their (D)isinformation… but they probably will, because Americans are only considered to be “educated” when they’ve been rendered wholly uneducable.

It’s the liberals who supported Clinton who are responsible for the banksters being allowed to be all the Enron they could be (and responsible for the millions made poor, jobless and homeless as a result), and it’s the liberals who supported Obama who are responsible for the banksters getting bailout rewarded instead of deservedly jailed without bail in the prisons they profit from.

The stateless entity global Market-State that now owns America, Inc. doesn’t care about Americans any more than it does an Iraqi or an Afghan, but the thing that the Market-State truly loves about Americans is that — unlike Iraq and Afghanistan — no military is required to subdue the self-subdued self-enslaved Americans. Americans reliably corporate compliantly provide regular 99% popular vote (R) & (D) mandates for whatever the Market-State wants to criminally do to them, and have Americans in turn criminally do unto others throughout the world.

Liberals made elections serve no good purpose because their millions would never vote for what they said they wanted (evidencing an objective reality that liberals have never actually wanted what they’ve said they wanted); and liberals constantly actively recruited others to also become voters habitually only voting for what they said they didn’t want… until getting whatever they said they didn’t want would become the only thing they would ever fight for.

A liberal is someone who claims they’ve “won” whenever their votes have again provided a popular mandate for everyone to get the continuum of successful fascist neoliberal shit that they said they didn’t want for themselves.

(D) liberals are the rotten core of this collapsing empire.

http://chenangogreens.org

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By Leefeller, May 14, 2011 at 6:35 pm Link to this comment

All the whining about Obama and the Democrats being Republican lite or against meaningful change, what ever meaningful change means,... Is it possible your meaningful change is not my meaningful change? 

Any moron with an IQ above a fly should know united we stand, divided we fall, ...its not divisive we fall… morons!

Yeah! I will vote Nader or I will vote green tea and throw my vote down the toilet. Like those Tea Bags are making great changes in the scheme of things, right back to 1850, in fact they are being choreographed by the same people bank rolling the Republicans.

There is like 20 or 30 3rd parties out there, so lets vote for them all so the lock step Republicans can have another eight years of Bush like simple Simon says!  That will be one hell of a change for the better!

Vote the Leefeller Tequila Party 2012, then you will show those Democrats what for,... lets accelerate to the fascist state, it has been kinda slow in the making. Bust the Unions, Screw education, the hell with Medicare, hey there is money in Social Security, we need to keep feeding those oil companies to keep greasing those wheels of meaningful change.

Who gives a crap anyway,...  after May 21 the world ends anyway so go Green, screw those Democrats!

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By MaxShields, May 14, 2011 at 5:57 pm Link to this comment

By JDmysticDJ, May 14 at 5:19 pm
“In the mean time, I’ll suggest that pointing out the tragic errors of the current crop of Democrats, but not advocating the abandonment of Democrats, is the best course of action to take at this time, and that this course of action is in fact a working towards a change we can believe in.”

This is the same kind of rational that keeps us stuck. It is the same kind of posting that has repeated itself here, particularly during the campaign cycles over many years. It’s a good course because it’s comfortable, not because it ever has produced results.

The young (one generation following another) play this tune because they have not lived long enough to see where it has led - no where.

Beneath your position is an assumption: that the last Presidential election produced anything meaningful in the world, in the nation…

I have less faith in the venture of an additional party without fundamental house cleaning. As long as the two institutionalized Parties rule with their corporate benefactors, it is hard to imagine a viable alternative. Only fundamental change will unhinge this corrupted thing.

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By JDmysticDJ, May 14, 2011 at 5:19 pm Link to this comment

By David J. Cyr, May 14 at 12:59 pm Link to this comment

“Liberals are the perfect enemy of all the good that could be, because they ensure that every best possibility becomes an impossibility.”

=================================================

What a “Liberal” is, is subjective. Put me in a random sample of U.S. voters, and I believe I would be perceived as radical, not liberal, but that is neither here nor there. Show me the real possibility of the “good that could be” being achieved and I will not be what you describe as an enemy of the good. It should be obvious to you by now that I perceive you to be a well meaning, inadvertent, facilitator of the bad.

I’ll argue that one of the characteristics of a failed state is the existence of tribalism, or, factionalism that becomes a detriment to the achievement of mutual goals. A faction that affectively serves the interest of an opposing coalition, by being a detriment to coalition building by those with mutual goals, and refuses to compromise, does, according to my argument facilitate the opposing coalition. Accusations of treasonous, or traitorous behavior exchanged between factions are interesting from an analytical perspective, but these accusations accomplish nothing other than creating animosity, dividing the factions, and weakening the coalition.

Well, I have come up with another way to say what I have been saying lo these many weeks and months. Simply put, by the numbers, abandoning the Democrats, does work to the favor of Republicans, its simple math, apparently you are fine with that, but I believe that you are wrong headed in this respect, and that the consequences of what you advocate will be less than pleasant, to say the least.

I’ll proffer that there has been an awakening of late, not so much an awakening to the realities of tragic Democratic errors, but to the profligacy of Republicans. I’ll proffer that this awakening will serve to make much needed reform of the Democrats easier to achieve and more likely.

One might argue that the struggle between Left and Right has been going on since time immemorial, but the struggle between Left and Right over the last century is memorable, and the Right has been winning the struggle in recent decades, abandoning Democrats now, if not done in mass, will increase the potential of Republican dominance, if not guarantee that dominance. Do you think it’s possible that Democratic voters will abandon the Democrats in mass in favor of a third Party option at this time? I believe that this is a noble but irrational fantasy, and a change that can not rationally be believed in. When that change becomes a rational probability, I will advocate abandoning these Democrats.

In the mean time, I’ll suggest that pointing out the tragic errors of the current crop of Democrats, but not advocating the abandonment of Democrats, is the best course of action to take at this time, and that this course of action is in fact a working towards a change we can believe in.

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By David J. Cyr, May 14, 2011 at 4:51 pm Link to this comment

Quote (Max Shields):

“The endless killing of innocents by the US under orders by the Commander In Chief (Obama)has met with almost no sounds of outrage. Obama has legitimized George W. Bush; making Obama a very dangerous president as he goes virtually unchecked by the so-called left.”
________________

Yes.

In a debate held before the 2008 election, I predicted that Obama would make “fascism fashionable again.” He has. Near every one of the millions who protested, who marched, and who angrily said they didn’t want fascism (from Cheney/Bush) is now a contented cow… contented because American fascism is now liberal managed.

Considering how predictable the outcome (and consequence) was, I consider all the votes for Obama to have been cast with malice aforethought. The degenerate Democrat “progressives” should not only do public penance for their crimes against humanity. They should pay reparations!

With the absolute transparency that Obama has brought regarding the consummate evil of Democrats, anyone who would ever vote for a Democrat again is obviously someone irredeemably morally depraved.

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By MaxShields, May 14, 2011 at 3:54 pm Link to this comment

Anyone who has hope regarding this President, is hopeless.

The fact that he used the assassination of OBL as a moment to describe it as “justice” is a perfect case in point. This was an extrajudicial (illegal) killing, pure and simple. By pronoucing this “justice” he has signaled the continuation of capital punishment in the USA for some time to come, just when it was beginning to look like we were about to joining the civilized world by outlawing retribution as a means to achieving justice.

The endless killing of innocents by the US under orders by the Commander In Chief (Obama)has met with almost no sounds of outrage. Obama has legitimized George W. Bush; making Obama a very dangerous president as he goes virtually unchecked by the so-called left.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24703

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By Gary Brumback, May 14, 2011 at 1:28 pm Link to this comment

The larger question, Mr. Scheer, is “What is the corpocracy without overt and covert war?”

Both the GOP and the Dems are wedded to the corpocracy, the “Devil’s marriage” between big business and big government.

The corpocracy is America’s own worse enemy. Can it be defeated? Maybe. See my website for possibilities.

Gary Brumback
http://www.democracypowernow.com
http://www.democracypowernow.blogspot.com

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By David J. Cyr, May 14, 2011 at 12:59 pm Link to this comment

Liberals are the perfect enemy of all the good that could be, because they ensure that every best possibility becomes an impossibility.

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By JDmysticDJ, May 14, 2011 at 9:47 am Link to this comment

By David J. Cyr, May 14 at 5:08 am Link to this comment

“QUOTE (of an avatar, being a painting in many shades of (D)evious blue):”

As I have commented before, all this ava-tarring seems a little moronic to me.

My esteemed friend Ardee, and you, make an argument, that appears to have merit on the surface, but the result of what you advocate, is obvious. That being a facilitation of the most fascistic, moronic, whatever…

I have gladly deferred to Leefeller on this thread, because the argument seems to be endless, and I have grown tired of saying the same thing over and over again in many different ways. However the argument needs to be made and I’m thankful to Leefeller for relieving me of this tedium, though he seems to be oblivious to the fact that his argument is the same as mine has been lo these many weeks and months.

If you and my much esteemed friend Ardee see merit in allowing the likes of Wisconsin’s Governor Scott Walker to take office, then there doesn’t seem to be anything left to say, except that the sky is blue, and you are wrong. Hindsight is 20/20, but it doesn’t take much hindsight to see the results of what has occurred since the 2010 midterms. You and Ardee with seemingly impeccable motives, affectively discourage the obstruction of the worst taking control of our government and determining all policies domestic and foreign.

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By ardee, May 14, 2011 at 5:49 am Link to this comment

Leefeller, May 13 at 5:41 am

You are, obviously, free to hold any opinion you choose. But to name one or two accomplishments of both Obama and the Democrats while ignoring the myriad of terrible decisions he and they conspire to force upon us seems a dreadful way to choose your voting process.

Ultimately, whether one votes for one major party or the other, one is voting for the same corporate rule. Perhaps, as you believe, voting for a third party is currently a futile act of rebellion. But perhaps it is not.

“A journey of a thousand miles begins with but a single step.” The Green Party, to choose but one option, my own in fact, has progressed from its inception in an admittedly slow but steady fashion. Today that party has more ballot access than ever before, in a majority of states now in fact. It has had more of its candidates elected to local and state levels than ever before and one might certainly expect it to begin electing to national office sooner rather than later.

The reasons for this slow and steady growth are several. One such might be that more and more folks are finding it increasingly difficult to swallow the logic that you use, voting for the Duopoly, voting for the status quo. Democrats have had ample time to prove themselves different from the GOP and, excepting for a few relatively minor actions, have betrayed those who call that party their own.

If you are satisfied with the direction of this nation then you are right to continue to vote for those who have led us thus. If you are not then, perforce, you must seek another way to operate within the system or give oneself over to violent overthrow of our government. I choose to do otherwise and try to bring candidates to the fore who are pledged to make what I see as necessary changes.

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By ardee, May 14, 2011 at 5:35 am Link to this comment

Virginia777, May 13 at 9:58 pm


Interesting how you respond with further proof of your idiocy.

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By David J. Cyr, May 14, 2011 at 5:08 am Link to this comment

QUOTE (of an avatar, being a painting in many shades of (D)evious blue):

“There are several Democrats in government that are far superior to Obama in my opinion, but if they broke off, formed a loser of a third party, I would support them, but on election day I would vote for a Democrat in order to keep a Republican out of office.”
__________________

Liberals pretend to have good intentions, but then they go vote for Democrats. Truly good people aren’t satisfied with really retrograde Republicans being replaced by deeply depraved Democrats.

The reason there’s no viable second party to oppose the one corporate (R) & (D) party is that near all the voters are comfortably contented with choosing exclusively between fascists; only arguing over which fascists they prefer (effectively just a choice between old school Bible-made-them-do-it fascists who are obsessively interested in repressing sexuality in others, or the “progressive” fascists who advertise an advocacy for abortions, same-sex marriage, and equal rights for gays to commit war crimes like “real” men do).

With liberals regularly evidencing their lack of conviction and inability to commit to the good policies they say they support, MoveOn can be confident that liberals will merely MurderOn.

No votes for the corporate pre-determined “electables” are actually required. Protest votes are the only votes that are not wasted.

It is the liberals who have made elections serve no good purpose.

It is the liberals who have made America’s fascism so sustainable.

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By Virginia777, May 13, 2011 at 9:58 pm Link to this comment

ardee:

“I appreciate the proof of my opinion of you as an idjit.”

You are welcome to call me that as evidence of free speech in action.

Just don’t call me a bytch. Trolls who start flaming and people idjits, its not usually long until the b word appears.

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By Virginia777, May 13, 2011 at 9:55 pm Link to this comment

JDmysticDJ:

“All along I have advocated reform, instead of suicide.”

me too.

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By tank, May 13, 2011 at 11:11 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I offer to your attention a film about six priorities of the generalized instruments of management by countries and people of Earth.
Six Principles of Global Manipulation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fF3TQ0lJnU
and:
Anti-Qur’an Strategy of the Bible Project Wheeler-Dealers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1wXgXwj3MI

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By JDmysticDJ, May 13, 2011 at 7:24 am Link to this comment

Leefeller

“Please don’t tell me would you have prefered McCain and Palin.? It would have not made a single atom of difference. They all follow the same script and agenda.
There would have been a difference, only in style and rhetoric that all. It is the classic good cop bad cop routine!”

==================================================

Huh? You win the quantum leap contest, hands down, no contest.

Dating all the way back to the Vietnam era, it has been my opinion that the best that could be said of Democrats is that they are preferable to the only viable alternative. I still hold that opinion. There are several Democrats in government that are far superior to Obama in my opinion, but if they broke off, formed a loser of a third party, I would support them, but on election day I would vote for a Democrat in order to keep a Republican out of office.

All along I have advocated reform, instead of suicide. All along many here have advocated suicide, while rejecting the possibility of reform. Gore, Who in the hell, or what in the hell was Gore? But then there was Bush.

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By Leefeller, May 13, 2011 at 5:41 am Link to this comment

Henri, RE: “that the Democratic Party offers a real alternative to its Republican counterpart.” 

I would not say and use the word ‘real’ in the sense indicated, I would prefer to say the Democratic Party offers the only alternative to its Republican counterpart. The word “only” would be more accurate and my preference.  Choosing a third party for me is not viable. The closest thing there is to a third party with a few teeth is the bought and paid for Tea Bags.  There are a whole passel of third parties out their, I have even belonged to several of them in the past, after spending some time in these third parties,  I started to feel I was throwing my votes away. For now I guess the Independent party makes some sense, but since I prefer to have a choice during the primaries the Democrats work for me.

You know I had not watched TV for a long time, until recently,... after listening to many Democrats on the Telie,  actually listening to them speak, I perceive the Democrats to offer a sense of honesty, intelligence and reality, (not all I suppose), I mean some could be on the dole!  But compared to sound bite Republicans who not only look alike; I think it has something to do with their eyes being closer together.  Republicans sound like Hanoi Hanna with scripted sound bites and during interviews they all say the exact same thing using the exact same words, (reminds me of scripted witnesses in an old Perry Mason program) its like Republicans cannot think for themselves.  I feel like Republicans are selling a junker used car which they tout was owned by a little old lady who only drove it to church on Sundays and I know it is a piece of falling apart junk!

Today I heard John McCain go against the Bush Republican sound bites and I have to say I was impressed by McCains honesty in calling the Bushites on their enhanced interrogation BS, I now have some respect for McCain!

The Democrats called out the Big Oil executives today, I wonder if it was all Kabuki theater?  The richest companies in the world want to keep their government welfare subsidies? The only thing I can conjure up is the Oil companies feel they need to milk the political spotlight, as the Republicans do by showing they are not giving up an inch in order to keep demands up?  After all why would they help the American people?

Obama said he was going to kill Osama ben Laden and he kept his promise, so for those who say Obama never kept any promises?

When Obama bailed out GM, I was pissed off because I thought it was more Wall Street BS.  But now I feel I may have been wrong and Obama was right.  Everyone GM took cuts to help get GM back on track,... I mean everyone,... from the union workers to the CEO.  The Republicans and the Koch Brothers must hate this fact, because they hate unions, they hate Obama, they seem to hate the Auto workers Union and they probably especially hate the fact all these parties worked together to help GM climb out of its hole and actually made enough profit to pay back the government bail out in full.  Now GM has more profit to hire more employees and create new jobs.

So Obama has gotten a few things done that he promised, but it seems for some people it will never be enough! Obama has been fighting a constant uphill battle against the Republicans and the alleged left, everything Obama tries, every move he makes the road blocks are many. The constant Republican offensives against Medicare, womens rights, unions, teachers, the very fabric of our nations middle class seems apparent to me.

Yes, the Democrats are the only alternative to the Republicans, so I guess they are the good cops obviously not the stupid ones?

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By ardee, May 13, 2011 at 4:35 am Link to this comment

Virginia777, May 12 at 11:35 pm

Reading comprehension much? I appreciate the proof of my opinion of you as an idjit. The “judges” comment was in response to a poster with an actual brain, one who, I am sure, understood the reference. Try reading all the posts, and slower, even if your mouth moves as you read.

Moron.

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By THX 1133 is not in the movie..., May 13, 2011 at 3:50 am Link to this comment

Ahem! Republican? Bin Laden? Hello?
Can we get back on topic?
Thanks, I know how it is; me too.

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By Virginia777, May 12, 2011 at 11:42 pm Link to this comment

Leefeller:

“So we see some Democrats acting like Republicans and most Republicans acting like Fascists”

Ok. Thank goodness you said “some”. Yeah, some Democrats act like Republicans.

But YEAH, most Republicans are acting exactly like Fascists.

and that is so not cool.

Choose sides people, and stop these ridiculous generalizations that are making the Left so weak!

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By Virginia777, May 12, 2011 at 11:36 pm Link to this comment

truedigger3:

“It is obvious that there is no difference, whatsoever, between the Democrats and Republicans.”

That is not obvious to anyone by someone who does not think.

Give me a break.

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By Virginia777, May 12, 2011 at 11:35 pm Link to this comment

ardee:

“I await your answer and remember as you compose it, the judges are watching, and listening, and marking.”

And what judges are those ardee? You?

Judge, go ahead. Lol.

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By truedigger3, May 12, 2011 at 7:00 pm Link to this comment

Re: By JDmysticDJ, May 12 at 11:57 am

JDmysticDJ,

Ardee is right and I agree with him 100%.
Few weeks back, I thought you saw the light and I was very happy for you, unfortunately you got a relapse and you are back to your old ways of finding excuses for the Democrats.
It is obvious that there is no difference, whatsoever, between the Democrats and Republicans. Both feed on the corporate money and are obdient servants to the moneyed elite. The difference between them is in style only and all the haggling,  shouting,
pointing fingers, voting NO, No, no then YES is make believe theatrics and bullshitting PR for duping the people. There is definite collusion and prior agreements on definite agendas between those two cretins.
Your beloved Obama didn’t fullfil a single election promise, and he repeatedly spouted beautiful rhetoric and speeches then did the opposite.
Please don’t tell me would you have prefered McCain and Palin.? It would have not made a single atom of difference. They all follow the same script and agenda.
There would have been a difference, only in style and rhetoric that all. It is the classic good cop bad cop routine!

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By ardee, May 12, 2011 at 6:11 pm Link to this comment

JDmysticDJ, May 12 at 11:57 am Link to this comment

Ardee, my esteemed friend, I must regrettably say that I have more esteem for Leefeller’s comments than yours on this thread. Leefeller is ruling here, by my esteemation, but I’ll offer that there is truth in both your comments

I wasn’t aware ( until you corrected me) that this is a competition. I thought that Leefeller and I were exchanging ideas and opinions. Silly me. But thanks for the crumb anyway.

If, indeed, this is competitive then shouldn’t my worthy adversary ( not really Lee) have points deducted for failure to launch, I mean failure to come to grips with my salient points re: third party politics and the futility of voting again and again for democrats only to be disappointed again and again?

If one accepts the premise, as you note that you do, that democrats are the solution how do you propose to wean them from their slavish devotion to corporate monies? How indeed does one expect them to work against their own self interests and pass legislation making elections free, for example, or working to negate the execrable SC decision regarding secrecy in campaign funding? Or, perish the thought, banning the exiting of Congress and the immediate occupancy of a million dollar a year job as a lobbyist?

I await your answer and remember as you compose it, the judges are watching, and listening, and marking. wink

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By DigThis, May 12, 2011 at 5:43 pm Link to this comment

Pedantic, diode-rectified, conspiracy-afflicted, newsboard.

Please instruct Mr. Scheer on the issues and how to present them, everyone.

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By Marc Schlee, May 12, 2011 at 2:48 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

What’s the fascist hydra without Osama?

It’s still a fascist hydra…


FREE AMERICA

REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY

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By JDmysticDJ, May 12, 2011 at 11:57 am Link to this comment

Ardee, my esteemed friend, I must regrettably say that I have more esteem for Leefeller’s comments than yours on this thread. Leefeller is ruling here, by my esteemation, but I’ll offer that there is truth in both your comments. Leefeller has a tendency to be very cogent, and then to digress to somewhere… but once again that’s just my opinion. This comment of mine and my opinion are of questionable value I’ll concede, but there it is.

As long as I’m being irrelevant, I’ll offer the following piece of irrelevant and useless information. A newt, by definition, is a slimy lizard like creature. There is much confusion about what a Barack is, but I’ll bet my voter registration card that a Barack isn’t as slimy as a newt, slimy, but not that slimy. I feel fairly confident in saying that a Nader is a creature way up towards the top of the endangered species list, whose slime factor seems to be minimal, but that his slime factor will continue to be a mystery.

It seems to me that we are bound to get slimed, and that our only choice is how slimy we want to get.

(Scheer, who seems to be innocuous to me, is, in my humble opinion, being slimed here.)

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By Lew Ciefer, May 12, 2011 at 11:47 am Link to this comment

It’s nice to know that the Republicans are nothing without old bin Laden.

Since Obama has pulled all the troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan there’s no more war, no more renditions or torture. No more collateral damage from missile strikes and bombing campaigns. The world is at peace for the first time since the last democrat president Bill Clinton who never fired a shot or bombed a country - not even an aspirin factory.

Four more years! Four more years!

Nothing like the peace of the Mocha Savior and his democrat party!

And icing on the cake is how all those Wall Street financers of the Obama campaign bankers are trembling in fear and running for the hills.

Yep ... all’s right with the world when democrats are in charge!

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By Northern Perspective, May 12, 2011 at 11:08 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Not that Canadians are in any better position with respect to our democratic system but from a policy level there appears to be no or little difference between the Democratic and Republican parties.

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By Leefeller, May 12, 2011 at 10:07 am Link to this comment

Thanks Henri, I was shooting from a news article I had seen and I did not have the exact facts, but the gist of it, blatant opportunism! Thanks for the link,...TD just posted an article on the same topic and I realized my errors. 

As for both parties leaning to imperialism, you may be right except for now I suggest they lean towards fascism. Though the idea of either party being in the vicinity of democracy seems quite a stretch.

It would be interesting to discuss the imperial point of view from my premise (Dr Britts actually) fascist one? Not sure about this, but can not imperialism be a part of fascism? It is apparent to me I need to lean more about imperialism, ...the word Imperial suggests WWII Japan to me and the difference off the top of me head, is an imperial emperor compared to a fascist despot?

Tony, ahhh! Pork chops!... Shit eating Hogs (Republicans) running to the troughs has new connotations as does pork barrels!

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By M Henri Day, May 12, 2011 at 9:40 am Link to this comment

«My most recent favorite is the previous head of the FCC gets a job with Comcast after he said okay to a merger ...» Leefeller, I suspect you missed both the gender and the position held by the person in question, Meredith Attwell Baker, who, I believe, is a woman, and one of the two Republican Commissioners on the FCC, rather than its head, who is Julius Genachowski. (More on this matter can be found here : http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/05/after-approving-comcastnbc-deal-fcc-commish-becomes-comcast-lobbyist.ars.) But you are certainly correct when you write that «the Democrats seem to lean more right with rising sun every day» ; given this fact, why do you feel - as from your postings I conclude that you do - that the Democratic Party offers a real alternative to its Republican counterpart. Neither the one nor the other are the least democratic or, for that matter, republican ; rather, both are better described as imperial - and as we are seeing, imperialism abroad leads to fascism at home….

Henri

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By tony_opmoc, May 12, 2011 at 8:44 am Link to this comment

Leefeller,

I don’t know about Pakistan, but you really shouldn’t be put off from crab cakes sourced from the Arabian Sea. Before I went to India, I read that due to the lack of flushing toilets that they fed human shit direct to the pigs.

I don’t know about their Pork Sausages, but their Pork Chops are excellent - better than English.

Tony

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By Leefeller, May 12, 2011 at 7:42 am Link to this comment

Now it seems congress is going to give more war powers to the president? I suspect the Republicans like this because they relish the idea of smaller government and the controlling concept of boot licking fascism.

Yes, the Democrats seem to lean more right with rising sun every day, I wonder;... is it an association thing, sort of like hanging around on the street corner with ones pants at half mast trying to fit in with the other guys pants at half mast? Or could it be the money changers are slowly appointing or should I say buying their Democrats to emulate their already bought and paid for Republicans? It must be nice now the money changers are buying up Universities so indoctrinators seem part of the plan too.

My most recent favorite is the previous head of the FCC gets a job with Comcast after he said okay to a merger,...  this reminds me of Congress people becoming lobbyists and lobbying to shut down Medicare.

So we see some Democrats acting like Republicans and most Republicans acting like Fascists, guess this is our new improved right leaning nation saying;... hi-to-ol… Hitler!

Tea anyone!

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By tony_opmoc, May 12, 2011 at 7:19 am Link to this comment

Someone should explain to Americans about this big fat bloke in a red suit and a white beard who comes down all their chimneys early on Christmas morning to bring them presents.

Or maybe not.

Tony

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By CJ, May 12, 2011 at 6:48 am Link to this comment

The government finally admitted Bin Laden was unarmed, which is how we
know. That was a fairly stark admission from a usually liar government. I doubt
they’d have said it were it not true, though I remain mystified as to what could
have been reason for stark admission. Doesn’t really matter as Bin Laden was
trapped inside no less than, say, Noriega, who was finally forced out and
brought to silly (in his case) trial. Pakistan could not have been other than
aware of all of it.

I agree, mostly, MaxShields. But still get Scheer’s point as it relates to
loathsome right wing in these parts. They ARE detestable in ways even Dems
aren’t, more prone to hypocrisy and lying than even Dems, who set a low
enough standard, Obama included. He just gets worse as his time in office
passes. Another drone attack killing yet more Pakistanis, who in turn stand by.

It’s not as though Pakistan has much use for us either, though we’ve been
cozying up for decades, long ago by Kissinger in opposition to non-aligned
India. Obama’s taken a somewhat different path with respect to India. India is a
serious economic power with a huge market, even if farmers are killing
themselves every 30 minutes (as reported yesterday by Amy Goodman, and
thanks in no small part to Monsanto).

But as someone at some media outlet was saying recently, one can’t understand
Pakistan without understanding Kashmir, Pakistan’s most central foreign policy
concern. I think that’s probably true. Pakistan does not need an enemy on each
side—Afghanistan to the west, India to the east. Thus cozying up to at least
Muslim Taliban. I believe Pakistanis regard us as ridiculous but also (and rightly)
as very dangerous.

But Scheer’s point is the absurdity of Bush and his worshippers, and it cannot
be disputed that Obama is a whole helluva lot brighter than the dimwitted
Bush, if no less—as it’s turned out—a (wannabe) cowboy. I believe Obama
greatly admires Bush’s myth-of-Wild-West style.

While I get Scheer’s point, I think(?), Obama continues to chase after the
American right at the same time he demonstrates disdain for the American left.
He reminds too of at least a more sincere Kennedy, while possessing none of
the qualities of the admired Lincoln, let alone MLK.

As for Pakistan possessing nukes, well…there was no stopping that, I don’t
think. (Iran too will develop them.) Even though certainly expedited by U.S.
policy, which, let’s face it, is simply lunatic. That’s the problem with so-called
“realpolitik,” it’s momentarily expeditious giving no thought to consequences.
It’s bound—over and over and over—to give rise to Bin Ladens, or, and far
better, to Che Guevaras and even Franz Fanons, also nonetheless regarded by
officialdom as “evil.” Evil is whatever seriously opposes (plutocratic currently)
power. Dissent in America is regarded as evil no matter lip-service paid to the
IDEA of dissent. Reality according to realpolitik is otherwise. Dissenters are
forcibly dragged out of committee hearing rooms. Celeb dissenters like
Chomsky are simply ignored, which is co-optive genius of democratic capitalist
ideology. Blatantly Stalinist methods have been rendered unnecessary.

Bin Laden was well known blow back, and not the last. So-called “terror” will go
on, continue as an effective tactic, and so neither American right nor left-ish
has lost (also tactically) necessary enemy in the war on citizens of country. And
officialdom is at war on citizens, has been for a long time. Katrina too was
allowed killer of citizens, as is much of domestic policy in general. Excuse of
incompetence extends only so far.

Nationalist powers have more in common with one another and transnational
capital than any one of them with its own citizenry, while citizenship is anyway
a thing of the past, spectacle having taken its place. Power too has become
transnational, and so officialdom is all the more fascistic for that.

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By Inherit The Wind, May 12, 2011 at 5:53 am Link to this comment

Since Osama Bin Laden was born in 1957 and Barack Obama was born in 1961, there’s two things I must quibble with.
1) Clearly OBL is not an old man, or BO is only 4 years shy of being one. I guess that makes anyone born before 1958 a “senior citizen”, yet somehow, my AARP card doesn’t get me ANY bonuses or discounts!

2) I’m guessing it would be a little tough for OBL to have fathered BO since I don’t know ANY 3 year olds of the human species who could impregnate a female human—of any age.

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By MaxShields, May 12, 2011 at 4:59 am Link to this comment

The problem with the Scheer piece is the lack of insight into the historical imperative of US foreign policy that makes this president no different than the last 12 or so presidents. To think that the rhetoric of candidate Obama will ever be manifested in policy is naive at best. But Scheer insults us by connecting the murder of OBL with some kind of epiphany which will utterly change course.

There is, as Clinton would say, no there there. And Scheer is merely restating the myth that has certain sectors turning a blind eye on just about everything Obama does, in fact making excuses or even praising those actions which would have had a completely different reaction with the last president.

You do not, today, become POTUS unless you play by Washington rules. So it is even beyond criticizing a president. It is realizing the peril this system of war continues to put humanity in. And ultimately, as the tides rise, as the storms become ever more catastrophic, as we see much of the earth uninhabitable, this little game of war and murder, of “justice” without due process, of one more assassination in the US quiver…will be like a pimple on a rat’s ass. This is a total DISTRACTION!

In the mean time, as long as this Commander In Chief wages war on innocent civilians throughout the world…killing and maiming children, men, women and elders with total abandon…and slapping the backs of soldiers whose deeds are to enforce the killing…this president should NEVER be praised but should in a truly JUST world be tried for crimes against humanity (and yes, the last set of administrations should likewise be brought to tribunals.) Less than that is pure hypocracy. To say that the killing of OBL is justice while terror rains from the skies from US military actions led by President Obama is the kind of Orwellian dilemma we have been stuck with…and we’ve more or less turned the other way. No bodies, no blood, no sight of war and therefore there is SILENCE in the USA.

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By Leefeller, May 12, 2011 at 4:18 am Link to this comment

Ardee, I was not there, so I do not know if Osma Bin Ladean was unarmed,...  it has been suggested bin Ladin attempted to attack the seals with his dialysis machine. Actually my friend in the FBI who knows people in the CIA and even a few who work at Starbucks, said there are some people in uncomprehending positions who believe Osma bin Ladin may really have been Obamas father,... it has been reported Osama had been around even more than Mr. Moral himself Newt Grangrape.

As for murdering an unarmed old man,... first I do not know if he was even alive, hell his wives could have called the seals to pick up the body after Osma passed away the night before after taking Viagra,... second I do not even really know if Osma ben laden was shot in the head, nor do I know if he was fed to the crabs,....but one thing I do know, is my love of crab cakes has wained.

Aredee, I really do not claim to know much about Osma Ben Ladien, hell I do not even know if he really existed in the first place, the whole thing could have just been one more fantasy story like George Bush being a history major?

Maybe Obama should have made his announcement about the demise of Osma ben Ladien by,...cutting to the video of George Bush in his flight suit landing on the aircraft carrier and giving his Mission Impossible speech, with the sign in the back ground,... now that would have been fun to watch.

Kroker, from what I have heard Pakistan is having trouble maintaining its own house, so why should the USA trust them to not leak crap? From what I have heard the Pakistan governemnt is almost as corrupt as the Republicans in the the USA, ...by the way whats with the USA giving money to Pakistan and then Pakistan supposedly outed a couple of CIA agents?

Obama has proven me wrong on several things which I found disappointing and as Sheers article suggests, I hope Obama proves me wrong on several more.  Maybe there is hope for change after all?

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By ardee, May 12, 2011 at 3:25 am Link to this comment

Leefeller, May 11 at 9:54 am Link to this comment

With only the GOP and the Democrats to choose from, I prefer and will stick with the Democrats.

Then you will continue to choose a sick and debilitating political system that will, in turn, continue to turn this nation into a third world entity. I think you are far more intelligent than this post indicates, frankly, and I wonder why you refuse to analyze the actions and inaction of your chosen political party in the light of truth.

My political ideas and opinions seem to be liberal and sometimes depending on the issue much more liberal then the Democrats. I do not feel there is a viable third party right now, the two parties make it very hard with the help of the MSM and the influence by the plutocracy.

Thus condemning this nation to its Duopoly Party status. That it is rather difficult to build a third party is moot, that it will never be built is a falsehood I believe as it seems a necessity. It will certainly take longer if good people like you refuse to see the necessity of doing so and thus remain tied to a system that betrays you.

Leefeller, May 11 at 9:21 pm Link to this comment

Geeze! Most of the posters here trashing Obama sound like Limbaugh or Hannity on Fox news.  Seems like many here who claim to be on the left, if they really are left should vote Republican.

Oh C’mon Leefeller have you done an actual count? Methinks you allow your own partisanship to color your criticisms. Not that this is unusual or confined to you of course. Certainly, in any thread, there are some juvenile or off topic comments, that is to be expected.

But certainly, by any measure, Obama and the Democrats deserve criticism, and for numerous actions and lack thereof. Murdering an unarmed bin Laden and quickly dispossing of the body, gives you no pause?

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By A Khokar, May 12, 2011 at 12:12 am Link to this comment

Bin Laden: A Witness is Silenced
After the 9/11 twin tower attack in New York, a joint US-Pak intelligence operation to hunt down terrorists of Al Qaeda in the War against Terror was started. Pakistan picked some 20 Al-Qaida top elites master minds of 9/11 attack and after US invasion of Afghanistan were now escaping from there and trying to melt away in Pakistani cities in disguise along with other three million Afghani refugees. All the captured persons were handed over to US– whereas after a decade long struggle US after finding just one head Osama Bin Laden carried out a raid at his compound for which Pak ISI had also provided US a lead. This scoop has made US wild mad and over-joyous. They killed Osama Bin Laden coldblooded at the spot. The raiders then secretly swished his body away as a prized trophy, only to dump it later in the sea.

Of course; elimination of most wanted person Osama is a grand trophy for US to celebrate her well sought victory in the US War against Terror. But for the hundreds of Conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11 attack and subsequent Bush hegemonic War against Terror that people call it a phoney war initiated by Neocons in which millions in Middle East, Afghanistan and Pakistan died at the hands of US lead invading forces— but the only witness and contender to all this who would expose US designs; namely Osama Bin Laden is —- silenced.

Pakistan and US are although allies in the War against Terror but have got bottom rocked marriage like strange and full of distrust relations. Rather than being thankful to Pakistan for her decade long assistance and also leading US to capture the trophy target Osama; US has aversely turned back and allege Pakistan of being complacent in hiding Osama.

Pakistan has categorical denied that they got any knowledge of Osama presence in Abbotabad, where the man was eventually found living a life which can be termed as vegetative life. As it is now revealed that he as an ailing frail person was spending his days as an impoverished person in a high walled compound, staying off from the sight of local peoples and with his strict parda observing conservative family. He had not stepped out of his compound for last five years.

There has been a practice that US and Pakistan have always been sharing all the intelligence information but ironically; US did not exchange the information when they had found that in the compound to which ISI had indicated to US, was in fact in occupation of Osama Bin Laden and kept this information as their Lion share. Even the raid attack on Osama compound was also kept secret to themselves which is a sheer betrayal and conduct unbecoming of an ally.

As ISI has openly admitted that they were not in knowledge of Bin Laden presence in Abbotabad; they well not be aware of it and it may be counted toward their intelligence failure too but if CIA also checks their own track record; it may find that it is also not very promising. Reportedly CIA spends some $80 Billion per annum for their services which is more that what all the Intelligence agencies of the world collectively use but it is known fact that they did not imagine the fall of the Soviet Union, the revolutions of Eastern Europe, the breakup of Yugoslavia, the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks against New York and Washington, the nonexistence of Saddam Hussein’s arsenal of weapons of mass destruction, the global financial crisis and, most recently, the Arab Spring.

But question is that why play up Osama bin Laden’s death with such fanfare that you even forget your allies who enabled you; to come around and make a scoop for trophy and celebrate a Victory; which is invariably bestowed to US after countless sacrifices that Pakistanis rendered as a labour of love for US and acting as front state in the War against Terror.
**
Links: http://www.adab-arz.co.uk/

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By prisnersdilema, May 11, 2011 at 10:22 pm Link to this comment

Killing a sad old man wrapped in a blanket, in some shit hole in Pakistan, is nothing to be proud of.

Yes, that old man murdered thousands of people, he was a killer, in whose hand we put a gun.

I wonder if maybe, he found relief in death, because he no longer had to endure, the endless hunt and vilification by our political class. And we made him an immortal martyr. 

Didn’t we understand that he could easily turn that gun on us?

That’s the trouble with arming people who you expect to do your killing for you.

Even after he was killed we are re assured that the wars will go on, and on and on. As will the killing.

And there are many millions of people around the world who know us now, people we have armed to the teeth; do they fear us? Or do they wish to emulate our violence? would they give us mercy, if they developed some terrible futurist weapon of death?

And there are many millions of our children, who will return from those wars, forever marked by the music of our violence. How will they live in peace?

Don’t ever think that death is the end.

That when you defeat your enemy, that his children sit and cry, and cower for the rest of their life. No, instead, they slowly feed their egos on thoughts of revenge, and pray for the day when it will come.

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By Virginia777, May 11, 2011 at 10:13 pm Link to this comment

Leefeller:

I totally agree. The trashing of Obama on Truthdig is out of control and there are clearly trolls contributing.

wtf???

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By Leefeller, May 11, 2011 at 9:21 pm Link to this comment

Geeze! Most of the posters here trashing Obama sound like Limbaugh or Hannity on Fox news.  Seems like many here who claim to be on the left, if they really are left should vote Republican.

This article is about taking the wind out of the Republicans sails, from what I can tell, it is not really about Obama and peoples whiny BS fetishes.

I think clowns should be called on their shit, especially when I find it prevalent, this has become long of tooth. I see a very high incidence of morons here on this supposed left and a few morons on the right, except from what I have seen GRYM and OM of the right have not posted on this thread, yet! Why should they?... They would just be agreeing with most of you?

Trashing Sheer and then trashing Obama? Most of these posts against Obama could be written as Pseudonyms by Limbaugh himself,... well if Limbaugh actually knew how to write!

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THX 1133 is not in the movie...'s avatar

By THX 1133 is not in the movie..., May 11, 2011 at 8:40 pm Link to this comment

Having read through most comments; my question is; what
article did those trashing Scheer read? Surely not the
one above.
While no masterpiece, it does state the obvious; which
I fail to see how it’s supportive of O’s overall
policies.

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By gerard, May 11, 2011 at 8:40 pm Link to this comment

The picture itself says a lot: 
1. I (this administration, Democrats etc.) are for the “armed forces” which means militarism and war just as much, or more than, the Republican and the Christian Right.  If you are stupid enough to get killed, we’ll put a flag on your coffin.
2. Although I don’t entirely believe what I just said, I have to say it to stay in office and please the military-industrial boys, Wall Street and the banksters.
3. This is all just a lot of fun where us boys get together and kick ass worldwide and show them who’s who.  In addition, it’s the only game in town these days.  USA USA USA!

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By berniem, May 11, 2011 at 6:50 pm Link to this comment

I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m really awfully tired of constantly seeing politicians schmoozing with people garbed in camoflage!

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By JJW, May 11, 2011 at 5:42 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Of course he had to be terminated.  He was Reagan’s freedom fighter.  Reagan claimed he was just like the founding fathers.

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By kerryrose, May 11, 2011 at 5:33 pm Link to this comment

Terrorism will be defeated when the United States stops its Imperial occupations while coddling dictators who betray their people to ensure our financial expansion.

NOT by surgical strikes (what is a surgical strike?  Drones?).

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By John poole, May 11, 2011 at 4:52 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The American plutarchy has always considered bin Laden “too big” to try and I’m
pretty certain the capture goal was always to summarily execute bin Laden- not
take him alive.  A trial at the Hague would only make Americans less safe-right?
and delay introducing a replacement global boogie man to a pathetically fearful
public.

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By BProgress, May 11, 2011 at 3:19 pm Link to this comment

“Obama needs now to apply that wisdom to bringing Bush’s folly in Iraq, and his
own escalation in Afghanistan, to a swift end.”

But he’s not doing that Robert. As a matter of fact, he pledged to do the exact
opposite. What is it that you do not understand? Obama is not on your side.

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By M Henri Day, May 11, 2011 at 2:01 pm Link to this comment

Disappointing, Mr Scheer ! I may be naive, but I had expected something more than a defence of assassination and imperialist wars of aggression à la Obama from Truthdig. The bomb-liberal section of the US corporate media more than suffices to perform that particular task….

Henri

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By Lew Ciefer, May 11, 2011 at 1:28 pm Link to this comment

What is this tripe? Slow news day?

The Republican Party—with or without bin Laden—is one of the wings on Karp’s bird of prey.

There’s only one Party folks ... The Party! And it is owned lock, stock, and barrel by the Ruling Oligarch.

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By lulu, May 11, 2011 at 1:28 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Dear Mr Scheer,

I don’t know why you insist on being intellectually dishonest, you would only do so if you believe your readers are stupid?
Do you expect us to defy reality with your delusional thesis that there are differences between the Clinton/Bush/Obama doctrine, each more extreme than their predecessors?

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By bpawk, May 11, 2011 at 12:34 pm Link to this comment

Please try to remember that the dems and republicans are just different wings of the same elitist party. Your country has no left wing! You could have had ralph nader but you squaundered it with false consciousness. As long as Americans are in denial about what’s going on, the elitist party will keep serving their corporate masters. The suffering is just beginning for the average American.

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By expat, May 11, 2011 at 11:46 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

as usual sheer is full of sh…

it’s the wrong question, or rather incomplete…

not what goop would be without bin bogeyman

but what ameriKa’s rethug-democraps zionist kleptocracy would be without the bin bogeyman goldstein war is peace fable…

next war…  Pakistan…  they got nukes and those in occupied Palestine can’t have that…  Let’s see…  which side is sheer on in that deal?  connect the dots?

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By LocalHero, May 11, 2011 at 11:38 am Link to this comment

So, what’s Obama without war?

All that clown is is a greasy arms merchant in a nice
suit.

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By Bird48, May 11, 2011 at 11:22 am Link to this comment

It’s really a sad day when this columnist praises a President for out-killing his predecessor. Is this what our country has become—a war mongering empire that elects leaders based on their ability to kill?

I cannot possibly support any politician who figures the only way to win is to be a bigger bad-ass than anyone else and as long as the media keeps talking only about how tough someone is, this sorry country will continue its slide into ruin.

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By frecklefever, May 11, 2011 at 10:56 am Link to this comment

ARABIAN SINBAD SAYS IT STRAIGHT…BEING ZIONS BACKUP HAS TURNED
AMERICA INTO A TECHNO GOLIATH THAT LOW TECH PATRIOTS ARE
RUNNING IN CIRCLES AND SLOW BLEEDING ITS ECONOMY..AMERICAN
LEADERS ARE VERY UNSMART…

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By MaxShields, May 11, 2011 at 10:39 am Link to this comment

Mr. Scheer’s analysis is void of history. US foreign policies causes these imperial interventionist wars.

The war machine (which is made up of the Pentagon and the corporate military industrial complex and it’s political flunkies) are forever poised for war. They wait until an incident (bay of Tonkin or 9/11) occurs - when one is not on the horizon they create the incident - and the machine goes to work.

Obama is simply Bush….peas that look different but they come from the same pod.

To look at this as if America, and its well established imperial power could change its ways without significant collapse on many levels is to be either naive or ignorant of how our system works.

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By gerard, May 11, 2011 at 10:04 am Link to this comment

Patrick Henry’s got it right:  Keeping the military-industrial complex going is the cause of perpetual war.  The Bin Ladens and such-like are the convenient excuses. Where’s the plan for converting from weapons-making to production for the benefit of people?  There ain’t any.  Why not?  Nobody in Washington or on Wall Street has the brains to figure out how to do it.  It’s that simple—and complex.

So the U.S. goes on being hated as the Great Dominator when we could be the inspiration for our children’s future.

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By Leefeller, May 11, 2011 at 9:54 am Link to this comment

With only the GOP and the Democrats to choose from, I prefer and will stick with the Democrats.

My political ideas and opinions seem to be liberal and sometimes depending on the issue much more liberal then the Democrats. I do not feel there is a viable third party right now, the two parties make it very hard with the help of the MSM and the influence by the plutocracy.

So we see these sensationalized headlines of Osma ben Ladan’s demise,...yes a bit of flare and fanfare. Even I feel the relief in all the hype,... to be honest I was not looking forward to another OJ trial after the 7 year car chase. Far as I am concerned, the right to a slow trial is only for US citizens.  The song and dance routine of a trial would probably have trumped the MSM’s dancing of the stars or Americas most whatever, so the networks would have been loosing some well earned advertising dollars, actually it may have caught people like Fox with their paints down.

I guess it was a big deal, the Navy Seals and all,... but Sheer is right the GOP does look like they have egg on their faces, this is what I perceive from Sheers article.

What I find is many posters here on TD are disappointed in Obama and in their disappointment they support the GOP, teabags and weaken the Democrats,... but whining does not seem productive and surely not the way to do something about it,... in a stange way, for me is makes me appreciate Obama more.

After eight years of Bush, I would have been happy if Napoleon had become our president. I have my suspicions about the two party system, I feel slighted by some of Obamas unfulfilled campaign promises, but the GOP is seems a constatnt road block.  Obama seems to have more integrity in one finger than any GOPers out there.

One concern I have is how much of the two party system is choreographed to have a divisive separation of the people? In the end I feel strongly and it seems obvious money calls the shots, so in reality you or I count for very little in the grand scheme of things.

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By JDmysticDJ, May 11, 2011 at 9:46 am Link to this comment

The coalition that makes up the Left, the not so Left, and the not Left, is split on many issues. Scheer has been very critical of Obama regarding financial issues.

In this article, Scheer cogently points out the hypocrisies and demagoguery of the Right.

Let’s not ignore Scheer’s last sentence, “Obama needs now to apply that wisdom to bringing Bush’s folly in Iraq, and his own escalation in Afghanistan, to a swift end.”

Granted, that swift end does not seem likely to occur under Obama’s leadership, but the suggestion, which I’ll argue is inadequate in its magnitude, shows some acuity.

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By SoTexGuy, May 11, 2011 at 9:41 am Link to this comment

The ‘father’, ‘mother’ and cradle of THE BOMB is The United States of America.

The proliferation of THE BOMB lies at the feet of our Foreign Policy, State Department and the Pentagon. Their mistake was thinking they could ultimately deny the technology to those not on the guest list.

Isn’t it obvious? When Iran shows their BOMB and proclaims the will and tools to deploy it all talk of ‘shock and awe’ on their ass will cease as well. .. and we’ll get chummy, even feed their population as we do for the hated (nuclear armed) North Korea.

About Obama and his new ‘street cred’ .. the important thing is (as I think already noted) Progressives are already backing off their tough talk and are positioning themselves to back Obama and most any Democrat in 2012.

Obama and the Democrats betrayed the broad coalition of voters who swept them into office in ‘08. Don’t forget that just because the Republicans act as lunatics..

We need a viable third party.

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By Rogelio, May 11, 2011 at 9:17 am Link to this comment

I completely agree with Scheer that ever since 9-11, the Republicans have used the bin-Laden (terroist) card to win American votes. Republicans are out of touch with America’s legitimate needs. After all, it was under the Republicans (Congress and Executive Branches) watch that our nation went down the tubes economically.

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By de profundis clamavi, May 11, 2011 at 8:51 am Link to this comment

The GOP will do just fine without Osama . . . they have Obama.

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By DavidByron, May 11, 2011 at 8:34 am Link to this comment

An oddly pedestrian article.

Well really that’s the wrong word.  Its an article written to the propaganda view of the world which any thinking reader must surely know is pure bullshit.

Does Scheer feel he has to send out a minimal amount of propaganda fluff articles like this or he wont get on TV or whatever?  Wont be taken “seriously”?

Is someone cracking the whip here?  It seems the re’s been a heavy handed slap down of anyone who dares to point out that Obama is a war criminal and the killing of Osama—if it actually happened at all—was a criminal act and a murder.

Are readers at the ironically titled “Truthdig” going to just take being lied to?

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By DigThis, May 11, 2011 at 7:56 am Link to this comment

From firefly, May 11 at 7:13 am

“.....Sheer says ‘Pakistan’ was helping bin Laden. Who is Pakistan? Is he a person with a face?....”

This is an astute observation.  Before we start villifying Pakistan, let’s differentiate between government and people.

BTW-  No need to repost an entire post just to correct typos.  Either proof it the first time or live with it….

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By Jim Yell, May 11, 2011 at 7:55 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The Republicans have shown a decided talent for beating the drums for hyper Patriotic and Fundamentlist idiots. The will not allow the loss of one Usama Bin Laden ruin their game.

I mean, how else will they justify the fraud committed against the National Treasury by the Military Industrial Complex?

It is clear from their record, that neither truth, justice or the American Way will stop them from lying.

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By TDoff, May 11, 2011 at 7:25 am Link to this comment

The GOP will do just fine without bin Laden. They still have The Boner, McConnell, Ryan, Trump, Bachmann, and many more, any one of which can eff-up the US, big time.

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By firefly, May 11, 2011 at 7:19 am Link to this comment

I wrote my previous piece in a hurry. Apologies for
grammar and spelling errors.

I agree with all comments here.

I too wondered what Sheer’s actual point is. Just
because Obama has succeeded in trumping the
Republican nutcases on Fox, doesn’t actually take
away some of the argument against war in the first
place. America is still and continues to be a war
nation, whether that’s to please the macho gun-toting
voters, or to please the CEO’s of oil corporations
and weapons manufacturers. As a result, it will
continue to kill and make enemies.

I wonder sometimes if a new doctrine of peace could
work better. One that is based on the idea that no
one should fight another man’s war, or another
corporation’s war (read US ‘interests’). If every man
faced his own enemy (George Bush vs Saddam Hussein)
in one to one combat, there would be no need to send
millions of innocents to their deaths.

Finally, I think we should stop using a country’s
name as if it is representative of all the millions
of people living there.

Sheer says Pakistan’ was helping bin Laden. Who is
Pakistan? Is he a person with a face?

The land where Pakistan is today was once the heart
of the Indus Valley civilisation with Harappan, Indo-
Aryans, Persians, Greeks, Sakas, Parthians, Kushans,
Hephthalites, Afghans, Arabs, Turks, Mughals.

Today there are Punjabis, Pashtuns, Sindhis,
Seraikis, Muhajirs and Balochs, Kashmiris,
Hindkowans, Kalash, Burusho, Brahui, Khowar, Ranghar,
Meo, Shina and Turwalis as well.

It is a country with more than 60 languages and is
the size of France and the UK combined.

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Robert's avatar

By Robert, May 11, 2011 at 7:19 am Link to this comment

Americans Are Living In 1984

By Paul Craig Roberts

May 09, 2011


“If the Taliban knew in December 2001 that bin Laden was dead, does anyone think that al Qaeda didn’t know it? Indeed, no member of the public has any way of knowing if al Qaeda is anything more than a bogyman organization created by the CIA which issues “al Qaeda” announcements. The evidence that al Qaeda’s announcements are issued by the CIA is very strong. The various videos of bin Laden for the last nine years have been shown by experts to be fakes. Why would bin Laden issue a fake video? Why did bin Laden cease issuing videos and only issue audios? A person running a world-wide terrorist organization should be able to produce videos. He would also be surrounded by better protectors than a couple of women. Where was al Qaeda, which according to former Pentagon chief Donald Rumsfeld, consists of “the most dangerous, best-trained, vicious killers on the face of the earth.” Had these most dangerous men alive abandoned their leader?

The CIA director’s warning of future terrorist attacks, followed by a suspect “al Qaeda” threat of the same, suggests that if the American public continues to lose its enthusiasm for the governments open-ended wars, which are conducted at the expense of the US budget deficit, the dollar’s exchange value, inflation, Social Security, Medicare, income support programs, jobs, recovery, and so forth, “al Qaeda” will again outwit all 16 US intelligence agencies, those of our allies, NORAD, airport security, Air Traffic Control, etc. etc., and inflict the world’s only superpower with another humiliating defeat that will invigorate American support for “the war on terror.”

I believe that “al Qaeda” could blow up the White House or Congress or both and that the majority of Americans would fall for the story, just as the Germans, a better educated and more intelligent population, fell for the Reichstag Fire—as did a number of historians.

The reason I say this is that Americans have succumbed to propaganda that has conditioned them to believe that they are under attack by practically omnipotent adversaries.

~~~~~~~~~~

Click on link for the rest:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28062.htm

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By DigThis, May 11, 2011 at 7:13 am Link to this comment

Damn nice article.

Now we’ll see if Obama can bring “...Bush’s folly in Iraq, and his own escalation in Afghanistan, to a swift end”

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By David J. Cyr, May 11, 2011 at 7:13 am Link to this comment

Robert Scheer is beating the drum for Obama’s war in Pakistan, on the way to Iran.

Democrats are always proving their lust for war is stronger than the Republicans’ is.

Torturing and killing better than Bush is how Obama will get the “progressive” vote in 2012:

http://chenangogreens.org/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=494&Itemid=49

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By firefly, May 11, 2011 at 7:13 am Link to this comment

I agree with all comments here.

I too wondered what Sheer’s actual point is. Just
because Obama has succeeded in trumping the
Republican nutcases on Fox, doesn’t actually take
away some of the argument against war in the first
place. America is still and continues to be a war
nation, whether that’s to please the macho gun-toting
voters, or to please the CEO’s of oil corporations
and weapons manufacturers and as a result will
continue to kill and make enemies.

I wonder sometimes if a new doctrine of peace could
work better. One that is based on the idea that no
one should fight another man’s war, or another
corporation’s war (read US ‘interests’). If every man
faced his own enemy (George Bush vs Saddam Hussein)
in one to one combat, there would be no need to send
millions of innocents to their deaths.

Finally, I think we should stop using a country’s
name as if it is representative of all the millions
of people living their. Sheer says ‘Pakistan’ was
helping bin Laden. Who is Pakistan? Is he a person
with a face?

The land where Pakistan is today was once the heart
of the Indus Valley civilisation with Harappan, Indo-
Aryans, Persians, Greeks, Sakas, Parthians, Kushans,
Hephthalites, Afghans, Arabs, Turks, Mughals. Today
there are Punjabis, Pashtuns, Sindhis, Seraikis,
Muhajirs and Balochs, Kashmiris, Hindkowans, Kalash,
Burusho, Brahui, Khowar, Ranghar, Meo, Shina and
Turwalis as well.

It is a country with more than 60 languages and is
the size of France and the UK combined.

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By chuckwagoncharlie, May 11, 2011 at 6:54 am Link to this comment

Oh come on ! America needs armed conflict regardless of which party is in power. There are more people being killed in Mexico’s Drug Wars than in the entire wars we are currently funding. Besides a few dead soldiers is a small price to pay for the billions going into the pockets of those who profit in wars and the people employed to feed the fires..
It is time to stop the nonsense and bring our troops home.

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