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What to Do About the Mad Colonel

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Posted on Feb 24, 2011

By Eugene Robinson

President Obama pledged that “the entire world is watching” the horror in Libya, but watching isn’t nearly enough. There is much more that world leaders—beginning with Obama—urgently must say and do.

The world’s censure means nothing to Col. Moammar Gadhafi, the dictator who vows to die rather than surrender the power he has held for four decades. At this point, the long-running debate about whether Gadhafi is mostly diabolical or mostly deranged is irrelevant. Despite his incoherent ramblings, he clearly is fighting not just for power but for his life.

The forces still allied with Gadhafi—his sons, parts of the military establishment, the mercenaries he has imported from other African countries—know that they are fighting for their lives too. They have opened fire with heavy weapons against unarmed protesters. They have trained sniper fire on peaceful funeral processions. They have terrorized urban neighborhoods with random gunfire designed to make people cower in their homes rather than join the uprising. If Gadhafi’s forces are defeated, the people’s retribution will be definitive and brutal.

I should say when Gadhafi’s forces are defeated, because ultimately the tyrant is playing a losing hand. He’s playing it skillfully, though, having managed to establish a relatively secure bastion in Tripoli. His message to the brave rebels who now control the eastern part of the country is: Come and get me.

Gadhafi appears to still control many of the country’s military assets. Ragtag bands of insurgents are no match for modern jet fighters or helicopter gunships or naval vessels that can bombard coastal population centers from miles offshore. Eventually, the people will surely win. But it is likely that thousands have already died—and abundantly clear that Gadhafi, even in a losing cause, is prepared to commit murder on a genocidal scale.

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Gadhafi seems to have calculated that the longer he can drag out the conflict—and demonstrate that he still commands the capital city and a potent, if diminished, military force—the more likely it becomes that he can find some way to survive.

That’s where Obama and other world leaders come in. The immediate aim should be to separate Gadhafi from as much of his military strength as possible.

On Wednesday, in his first extended remarks on the crisis, Obama warned that “the Libyan government has a responsibility to refrain from violence.” Those words, while correct, were far too weak. Obama should state plainly that we no longer consider Gadhafi’s regime to be the legitimate government of Libya and that the dictator must immediately step down.

This will not have the slightest impact on Gadhafi, of course. But the message isn’t for the Mad Colonel, it’s for the military officers—the pilots of his warplanes and commanders of his warships—who must decide whether to follow his orders. They need to be told, in no uncertain terms, that if they side with Gadhafi they will suffer the consequences.

And those consequences need to be spelled out. A chorus of world leaders should make clear that those who commit war crimes, such as firing on civilians, will personally be held accountable. If the avenging mob doesn’t get them, international justice will.

The United States should lead NATO in immediately declaring a no-fly zone for Gadhafi’s military aircraft and announcing that Libyan airspace is being monitored for violations. You wouldn’t attempt to enforce such a ban immediately. The idea, again, should be to influence those who must choose whether to follow Gadhafi’s orders.

By radio, television and the Internet, the U.S. and its allies should blanket Libya with the message that the Gadhafi regime has forfeited any right to legitimacy. Libyans should have no doubt about where we stand.

Such actions will anger the leaders of autocratic regimes that have been reliable allies of the West, such as Saudi Arabia. The Chinese government may not be pleased at such “interference,” and the Russians may not be thrilled, either. But Gadhafi is a special case, as anyone who has seen his recent appearances can attest. The umbrella? The rambling, delusional speeches about how the protesters are on drugs? The vow to kill or be killed? This man is either a psychopath or a sociopath, but not a statesman.

Unambiguous, muscular words and credible threats are the least we can do for the people of Libya. Even by that low standard, we are falling woefully short.

Eugene Robinson’s e-mail address is eugenerobinson(at)washpost.com.
   
© 2011, Washington Post Writers Group


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By tedmurphy41, March 10, 2011 at 11:20 am Link to this comment

Strange how Bahrain and Yemen have disappeared off the radar with regard to highlighting their discontent through the World’s media.
The Libyans needed help years ago but there was no-one to hear them, alongside Tunisia, Egypt and the rest, so they had to do it themselves.
You can all help by just minding your own business and let them get on with their own revolutions, in their own way; if they are successful, victory will taste that much sweeter to have accomplished it all by themselves.

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By Go Right Young Man, March 5, 2011 at 10:37 am Link to this comment

In his interview with Christiane Amanpour Ghonim stated, very clearly, that when the protests first erupted, ordinary Egyptians had expected that once they rose up to demand their freedom, America “could not help but stand with them”.

Yes, it’s an opinion.  The opinion of one of an Anti-Mubarak, pro-Western, leader in Egypt. It’s not the opinion of an American sitting in his safe and well fed favorite chair outside of Egypt.

I offer Mr. Ghonim, an Egyptian, a young man who helped to lead the uprising in Egypt, as partial evidence of my clams. I challenge PHenry to prove his, so-called, “delusions” by showing us the anti-American protests in the Middle-East and Africa that he so intently desires to see.

The fact is, it simply does not exist. And this lack of anti-Americanism, apparently, leads Mr. Henry to agitation.

-

George Washington was right. But then President Washington didn’t live in the age of Google and Wael Ghonim. There is a world of, or should we say a Global, difference.

The United States is not the cause of the world’s ills.  Human are.

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By PatrickHenry, March 5, 2011 at 10:01 am Link to this comment

GRYM


“Egyptians waited for Obama himself to speak”


Not fact, assumption.

Like the Libyans, the Egyptians could only hope that the U.S. would not intervene militarily.

Like many on these pages we know over time the U.S. interventions have been counterproductive to our foreign relations. 

By staying out of the internal affairs of other nations and avoiding the foreign entanglements warned by George Washington we might again be a trusted partner.

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By Go Right Young Man, March 5, 2011 at 9:48 am Link to this comment

I believe we should keep the record straight. Keep events in context.

On Feb. 9 Wael Ghonim gave his first interview after his release from jail in Egypt.  He spoke off-camera with journalist Christiane Amanpour.  In this interview Ghonim stated, very clearly, that when the protests first erupted, ordinary Egyptians had expected that once they rose up to demand their freedom, America “could not help but stand with them”. Instead, they heard President Obama’s handpicked envoy, Frank Wisner, declare that Hosni Mubarak “must stay in office” to oversee the changes he had ordered. Egyptians heard Secretary of State Clinton declare the United States backed “the transition process announced by the Egyptian government” (which then consisted of Mubarak staying in power until September).

Egyptians waited for Obama himself to speak out clearly and align America with the “freedom revolution” they had set in motion. Soon their hopes gave way to disappointment and eventually anger.  Only then did demonstrators begin carrying signs that declared “Shame on you Obama!” and showed Mubarak depicted as Obama in his iconic “hope” image - with a caption that read “No You Can’t.”

In these recent events there are two things that cannot be rationally denied.

1. Tunisia, Jordan, Libya, Egypt, Yemen, Bahrain and even Iran have one glaring commonality. The United States, Great Britain, and Israel have been conspicuously absent from the sloganeering.

2. There are some in the United States, many on these very pages, that are visibly upset at the lack of anti-American sentiment in the Middle-East and Africa.

-

Let us keep events in context. The United States is not the cause of the world’s ills.  Humans are.

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By BR549, March 4, 2011 at 9:56 pm Link to this comment

Patrick Henry,
I agree. Just watch how fast Hillary was able to salvage the situation in Egypt. One minute, the protestors were insurrectionist terrorists and the next minute they are freedom fighters. It’s interesting what a little spin will do, and then Hillary wonders why the US is losing the information war ........

I can’t believe how far that tw_t got in political office. Thank Christ she never made it into the presidency.

—————————————-

Hillary, Honey, it’s because no one trusts you, you or that philandering scumbag husband of yours, the guy you currently work for, and the imbecile before him, who had to cancel his trip to Switzerland to avoid being arrested for war crimes charges. It’s because of ZERO credibility. You people LIE FOR A LIVING. What do you expect?

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By Go Right Young Man, March 4, 2011 at 7:20 pm Link to this comment

PatrickHenry, - “Your sources suck and those Libyans talking to you are the voices in your head.”

-

Yes. Rebel leaders have real reason for ambivalence toward outside help. It weakens their dignity and standing as a force.  The Western world too will see any associations with various rebel leaders as a dichotomy.  A powder-keg of problems.  Not the least of which is stepping on Chinese and Russian toes i.e., $Billions in Chinese and Russian contracts.  Commerce in which each will demand be honored. - If reports are correct, who, precisely, has sent thousands of African mercenaries into Libya this past week?

Talk to Libyans.  Listen to them.  You’ll find yourself shocked.

-

The United States is not the cause of the world’s problems.  Humans are.

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By PatrickHenry, March 4, 2011 at 6:30 pm Link to this comment

GRYM,

Lets see, those Libyans in Libya are ambivilant about recieving U.S. aid but those living in the U.S. are not. Some logic.

Daley plaza, now theres a bastion of middle eastern opinion.

Of course those Libyans are going to protest anything the U.S. media prompts them to.  They are too close to being ‘Al Qaeda’ they had better show their stripes.  No doubt they are on a green card list, can’t screw that up.

Your sources suck and those Libyans talking to you are the voices in your head.

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By Go Right Young Man, March 4, 2011 at 6:19 pm Link to this comment

While rebel leaders appear ambivalent regarding Western aid and direct involvement, we see small but passionate rallies in over 35 cities across the United States this past week.

-

Libyans protest at Daley Plaza

More than 50 people protested at Daley Plaza Monday against Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi because security forces fired on thousands of demonstrators and funeral marchers in the African country.

The demonstrators, mostly Libyan, pleaded for other nations, including the U.S., to help end the deadly violence. Many of the protesters were doctors and students trying to get their medical licenses in the U.S.

“These people are just asking for freedom, the simplest human rights,” said Haythim Salem, 28. “It’s been 43 years. We’ve had enough.”

Nizar Senussi, 27, said his twin brother, a medical doctor, is afraid for his life, as he helps those who have been wounded in Libya’s demonstrations. Senussi himself is worried about his family.

“I haven’t been eating. I haven’t been sleeping. I can’t study,” Senussi said. “Just to give you my name is a big deal. You have to understand, we couldn’t do these kinds of things back home. We’d get killed, shot, or imprisoned for life.”

“We need free speech,” Ghivvi said.

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By Go Right Young Man, March 4, 2011 at 5:50 pm Link to this comment

PatrickHenry,

Please be sure to point out any anti-American protests inside Libya.  I am told, by those with relatives and friends in Benghazi and Tripoli, that it still does not exist.

I’m also told that the bulk of Libyans are thrilled that the American President has recently spoken out more forcefully in support of Qaddafi leaving. - I’m also told that Libyans DO NOT want America to attempt to take any control of Libya.

-

Put away your preconceived ideas.  Put away your Western media sources. Find a Mediterranean bakery, restaurant or travel to your nearest University.  Speak to Libyans.  You’ll find yourself shocked at what you’ll hear.

Again, be sure to bring to my attention any anti-American protests.  Today they don’t exist.

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By PatrickHenry, March 4, 2011 at 5:10 pm Link to this comment

GRYM,

It is not only the Libyan protestors who don’t want United States intervention it is also their neighbors Egypt and Tunisia who don’t want any western involvement in Libya as well. 

I read a report today about Egyptian special forces entering Libya through Tunisia on the side of the anti Gadaffi forces.  They are being sent in by the post-Mubarak government.

Do a search on U.S. protests in Libya and you won’t be disappointed.  Libya has a long record of U.S. flag burning and anti-US protest.  Nothing this week as they seem to have their hands full with their own affairs.

Take note that the UN refugee agency has been in Libya aiding and assisting the non combatants since this began.  Hillary is making quacking noises about US planes providing aid which the Libyans haven’t asked for and the U.S. hasn’t been provided yet.

As you were saying how all these nations clamor for U.S. aid?

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By Go Right Young Man, March 4, 2011 at 11:17 am Link to this comment

PatrickHenry,

Have you taken note of how several European nations, three Libyan Ambassadors, Libyan rebel groups, several neighboring African and Arab nations are seriously talking about a “No Fly Zone” over Libya, while it appear the United States is resisting the idea?

The United States is not the cause of the world’s ills.  Humans are.

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By Go Right Young Man, March 1, 2011 at 11:10 pm Link to this comment

PatrickHenry, - “The protesters are hoping not to be the collateral damage the U.S. is famous for when bringing democracy and aid to a nation.’

-

The problem is in how you’ve imagined and conjured 100% of the things you’ve written in this entire thread. The link you keep sharing doesn’t mention the U.S. as interfering.  - You’re unaware of Iranian, Egyptian and French intricate involvement in Libya at the moment because you have yet to see these matters mentioned in media.  The banner in the photo at the top is not attributed.  Was it a government produced banner (Gaddafi claims Al Qaeda interference) or anti-Gaddafi?

Just please, be sure to make us all aware of the Anti-America sentiment and protests you are so certain is present on the ground.  I am told it simply doesn’t exist.  You have presented nothing in support that it does.

I’ll look at it if you produce it.

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By BR549, March 1, 2011 at 10:37 pm Link to this comment

Is there an echo in this room?

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By Go Right Young Man, March 1, 2011 at 10:29 pm Link to this comment

“I hate everyone associated with the Tea and Republican Parties, but here’s why I’m not a bigot”

Who the fuck could get away with that if they said “I hate Blacks but here’s why I’m not a racist.” ?

It’s just more bullshit!

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By BR549, March 1, 2011 at 10:03 pm Link to this comment

ITW,
Still struggling with your incessant need to salivate all over your keyboard vainly trying to defend your version of Truth, Justice, and the American Way? So sure of yourself and you still didn’t even read my post?

Nice!

BTW, how’s the air on your planet?

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By Inherit The Wind, March 1, 2011 at 9:37 pm Link to this comment

Translation: “I hate Jews, but here’s why I’m not a bigot”.

Who the fuck could get away with that if they said “I hate Blacks but here’s why I’m not a racist.” ?

It’s just more bullshit.

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By PatrickHenry, March 1, 2011 at 8:18 pm Link to this comment

GRYM

On this very day Millions of Libyans are hanging on the every word of the American President

I don’t think so.  The Libyans are aware they sit on 44 billion barrels of oil and the US gives 2 shits about them. 

So your Libyan friends in Ann Arbor are keenly aware of the facts on the ground better than the local news outlet who have reporters on the ground.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/live-blog-libya-march-1

The UN refugee agency has been working in Libya since this began and no requests for US aid by the Libyans have been forthcomming as you had previously argued.

The protesters are hoping not to be the collateral damage the U.S. is famous for when bringing democracy and aid to a nation.

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By BR549, March 1, 2011 at 10:12 am Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind, March 1 at 6:10 am
“But if you call BR the anti-semite bigot he is he’ll holler and whine and moan about it.”

ITW, your ignorance and continued level of self-absorption never cease to amaze this audience, along with your inability to comprehend the meaning of two or more concatenated sentences. Try rereading what I did write about the Jews, who truly practice their religion, and you might find that the tenets they espouse are really not all that different from those of Christianity or Islam and that a TRUE follower of any of those religions cannot be simultaneously be slaughtering other people in the name of God and then worshipping the heavens expecting any type of meaningful response other than a spiritual bitch slap. In that same thread, I ALSO suggested that the US and GB were in that same moral and ethical cesspool with Israel, but I think you charged off on your rant before ever getting to that part.

How you came to the erroneous assumption that I am an “anti-semite bigot” can only be because you were too eager to interject your own beliefs before actually reading and learning those of mine. That’s OK; you may not understand yet, but the rest of us do.

“Am I the ONLY one to notice that Qaddaffi hasn’t blamed Israel, Jews or even the US for his problems?”
No, but if it makes you feel better, we’ll put a gold star on the top of your paper after school and have the principle put a notice in your local newspaper.

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By Inherit The Wind, March 1, 2011 at 1:10 am Link to this comment

“So, when it comes to Israel, don’t turn your back and don’t drop the soap. “
******************

But if you call BR the anti-semite bigot he is he’ll holler and whine and moan about it.

Am I the ONLY one to notice that Qaddaffi hasn’t blamed Israel, Jews or even the US for his problems?

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By Go Right Young Man, February 28, 2011 at 11:10 pm Link to this comment

PatrickHenry,

In regards to Libya, I have never written of any outpouring adulation for Mr. Obama or the United States.  You only imagined it.  Perhaps you could revisit what I’ve written.

-

My sources are Libyans.  Admittedly they are few, however, a GREAT DEAL better than your unqualified blog source in Qatar which you, mistakenly, sourced as Libyan.  Which, interestingly enough, never mentions a word of the United States or how Libyans feel about the United States.  Again, you imagined things that are not actually verifiable by others.

Please be sure and get back to us when you learn of any Anti-American riots in Tripoli.  I think that would be a piece of information we could all use.  I’m told they do not exist.  Nothing in the media either.  In fact, I know of no tangible evidence that Libyans see and feel the way you and others here feel about the United States. - Don’t fret.  I’m sure they exist in small numbers in Libya too.

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By PatrickHenry, February 28, 2011 at 10:09 pm Link to this comment

GRYM,

“As I previously wrote; On this very day Millions of Libyans are hanging on the every word of the American President for his stand on Human Rights for Libyans.  There’s a reason for that”.

What is your source for this statement?  NYT? Washington Post? gut feeling? voices in your head?

On the off chance I searched ‘Libyan protesters who support the US’ and got back many hits on the protesters but none read of any of the adolation of Obama or America which you speak of.

Once again, you’re delusional.

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By Go Right Young Man, February 28, 2011 at 9:33 pm Link to this comment

PatrickHenry,

I wanted this in a separate post as it’s that important.

You are not suggesting that an Al Jazeera blog post, based in Qatar, represents “local Libyan media”.  And you’re not suggesting that Libyan media would air any item that would appear to be “pro-American” (there is no independent media in Libya).  You are not suggesting that anything from the Libyan media would air calls for foreign intervention of any kind.  Even if all 6 Million people inside Libya wanted such a nonsensical thing.

I’m sure you meant to relate something entirely different in your last post.

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By Go Right Young Man, February 28, 2011 at 9:06 pm Link to this comment

PatrickHenry,

When anti-American riots break out in Tripoli get back to us.

-

You’ll notice that I’ve never written that Libyans, in general, desire physical outside interference in affairs of governance.  While many liberal pro-democracy groups in Libya are calling for outside intervention of many types, we see no widespread agreement. - Aside, of course, from the ongoing overwhelming support of French humanitarian aid in progress. - As I write there are a half dozen liberal pro-democracy groups talking directly to the White House seeking aid and intervention with the goal of ousting Gadhafi.*

As I previously wrote; On this very day Millions of Libyans are hanging on the every word of the American President for his stand on Human Rights for Libyans.  There’s a reason for that. 

Clearly most people on this Web space, apparently including yourself(?), can’t stand that reality.  It doesn’t fit into the proper narrative.  A Narrative which places all hatred and distrust for all things “American”.

Yes.  Please, be sure to come back when anti-American riots break out in Tripoli.  There’s certainly no sign(s) of it today.

-

*On matters inside Libya I rely heavily on a friend of nearly 25 years.  He was born and raised in Benghazi but now teaches at the University of Mich., Ann Arbor.  He keeps close contact with Libyan pro-democracy groups and dozens of family members throughout Libya.  He has recently traveled twice to Washington to attend State Dept. sponsored meetings.  If he and others have lied to me it would, I believe, be a first.

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By samosamo, February 28, 2011 at 8:23 pm Link to this comment

****************


Careful with that axe, eugene. The u.s. knows what to do about
the mad colonel because the u.s. is practiced in what to do with
any despot or uncooperative leader of another nation. Especially
a leader the u.s. installed and supports.

What is strange is o telling said mad colonel from america what
to do. Though the Libyans may agree, they in most likely hood
resent an american president dictating Libyan policy from across
the atlantic, just as the Egyptians don’t likely care to hear it
either.

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By BR549, February 28, 2011 at 7:15 pm Link to this comment

ChavistaKing,
The Jews are never happy. Sure, there are a number among their population who have enough sense to embrace their religion as a bona fide religion and not see it as means to abuse the multicultural balance that living in that region requires. But when we get outside that group of humanistic Jews, all we have is a cookie-cutter representation of the racist, hegemonic, imperialists who warm
their fat asses in the cushy chambers of our own dysfunctional Congress.

With them, there is no integrity. They don’t care who they have to murder to get their agenda through, and they have no respect for their own allies. I know this sounds confusing, because we can easily be describing the actions of Israel, the US, or Great Britain, and the list is growing. It’s sickness and the legislatures of these countries are infected with it like syphilis.

One might have thought that with all those advances in technology, we might have escaped some of those bonds of ignorance and intolerance, but the truth of the matter is that politicians around the world have had to use their positions to posture themselves against the abusive foreign policies of Great Britain and the Unites States, in that order, and this evil sickness of distrust and avarice
has festered and spread around the globe.

How do we explain the events of June of 1967 against the USS Liberty; a case where Israel machine-gunned US sailors, who had taken to the life rafts in international waters after Israeli aircraft intentionally strafed and torpedoed a US vessel because the US ship would have heard the radio intercepts proving that Israel had planned to violate the cease fire and take over the Golan Heights? LBJ did his best to whitewash the event so as not to damage US-Israeli relations and ultimately, the US and the families received a paltry financial compensation, which the US taxpayers probably paid for anyway.

So, when it comes to Israel, don’t turn your back and don’t drop the soap.

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By PatrickHenry, February 28, 2011 at 6:55 pm Link to this comment

GRYM

On this very day Millions of Libyans are hanging on the every word of the American President for his stand on Human Rights for Libyans.  There’s a reason for that.  Clearly most people on this Web space can’t stand that tangible reality.

Thats not what the local Libyan media says.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/live-blog-libya-march-1

When the pro-American riots break out in Tripoli get back to me.

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By GoyToy, February 28, 2011 at 3:54 pm Link to this comment

There he goes again, that Eugene, arguing for outside (meaning U.S., NATO, Western) intervention. Eugene, there are leaders in this Libyan uprising (such as former chief judge), so how about letting them decide how much outside help they want and in what form.

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By Inherit The Wind, February 28, 2011 at 3:27 pm Link to this comment

I know! Let’s have Libya send Qaddaffi to live with Chavistaking.  I’m sure the Q’man and the C’man have a lot in common and will get along famously.  They can all live in Venezuela under Chavez with Moonraven, Gulam and Robert for companions.

Solve a multitude of problems at once.

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By JDmysticDJ, February 28, 2011 at 2:46 pm Link to this comment

The problem is not with human beings. The problem is with some human beings. GRYMie is one of those problematic human beings.

Putting it succinctly, Super Powers think it’s all about them.

If a Super Power is inevitable, as GRYMie contends, then that Super Power should be representative of all nations and peoples, and democratic in its structure. Something like the United Nations, devoid of a Security Council.

GRYMies New World Order is domination by the Western Powers with the U.S. providing the “muscle.”

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By ChaviztaKing, February 28, 2011 at 2:28 pm Link to this comment

How many of the so called experts in the high cupulas of the US government, who wants us to invade Libya are Jews?

These Jews will not rest till they completely finish off USA than will take over another powerful country maybe China. I doub’t the Asians are not foolish as the Europeans and Americans are.


.

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By ChaviztaKing, February 28, 2011 at 2:04 pm Link to this comment

By BR549, February 28 at 4:13 pm Link to this comment

You are totally right 100% !! And you know something.  We shouldnt only blame the people in power, but the people who vote into power these egomaniacs with poverty low-self esteem, inferiority complex mentality.  What i mean is that the US voters are just as guilty as Bush, Obama and our evil leaders in the US government.  This is related to what something Henry Ford said that nations have the governments that they deserve.  And also related to a famous quote by John Adams (Second US president), that nations that are no well informed will always have dictatorships.  And it’s true, dumb people will never be able to vote Ralph Nader, The Green Party or Cynthia Mckinney into power.  Not even Ron Paul.  Because dumb, un-informed people trust CNN, FOX news, and most corporate TV news channels than the informed population.

So maybe the real reason on why the USA has had evil presidents and evil governments for the last decades has been the dumbing down of the whole US population.

 

 

.

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By BR549, February 28, 2011 at 11:13 am Link to this comment

ChavistaKing,
I guess I’d be kicked off Commondreams as well.

Why is it that, with all this “energy” buried in the Earth and the desperation to corral as much of the oil reserves as possible, there are so many people in power with a poverty mentality? Or put another way, maybe the hoarding of the stored energy in the vast oil reserves is just an analogy for the spiritual poverty mentality that these people possess and that they are totally clueless as to how to manage any population effectively, especially one that might foster free-thinking. They have no connection to the divine so they feel the only way they can survive is to laterally parasitize everything and everyone around them.

My two cents.

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By Go Right Young Man, February 28, 2011 at 11:04 am Link to this comment

Manchild - “This, as my old psych 101 prof might note,is a perfect example of ‘projection’.”

-

LOL… projection. 

Such esoterica from one who, essentially, writes; “I Am Rubber, You Are Glue!” wink

You may fool others here, Little One.  You don’t fool me.

-

Let me repeat:  You are the epitome of the arrogant American whom believes the world revolves around you.  To a 4 to 14 yr. old it does.  In an adult it’s nothing less than embarrassing.

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By Go Right Young Man, February 28, 2011 at 8:50 am Link to this comment

On this very day Millions of Libyans are hanging on the every word of the American President for his stand on Human Rights for Libyans.  There’s a reason for that.  Clearly most people on this Web space can’t stand that tangible reality.

How do we explain this reality?  Well, according to many on this Web space, Millions of Libyans must be ignorant, Libyans must be delusional, they must be racist, they must be Neo-Cons, they must be FOX News drones.  Libyans are so out of touch with reality that they fail to see the evil that is the United States.  Simply put; Libyans don’t know what’s good for them.

On the other hand we could explain the Libyan attitude by seeing that the United States is not the cause of the world’s ills.  Humans are.

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By ChaviztaKing, February 28, 2011 at 12:11 am Link to this comment

Welcome to life in 21st Century America, where our products are death, destruction, low-paying jobs and the tossing overboard of the poor, sick and elderly, all to support the war racket.

i forgot porn cam sites. Capitalism is so evil that it forces women to work as sex-slaves in porn sites.  Brought to you by the wonderful invisible hand of the free markets in former USSR nations and in USA


,


.

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By ChaviztaKing, February 27, 2011 at 11:58 pm Link to this comment

Welcome to life in 21st Century America, where our products are death, destruction, low-paying jobs and the tossing overboard of the poor, sick and elderly, all to support the war racket.

i forgot porn cam sites. Capitalism is so evil that it forces women to work as sex-slaves in porn sites.  Brought to you by the wonderful invisible hand of the free markets in former USSR nations and in USA


.

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By ChaviztaKing, February 27, 2011 at 11:37 pm Link to this comment

I was banned from the zionist left-gatekeeper http://www.commondreams.org for being anti-Israel.

Many progressive liberal websites like Commondreams and The Nation Magazine are pro-Israel.

We have to beware who are the real leftists. Because many liberal social-democrat sites like The Huffington Post have been shifting toward the zionist right-wing. Maybe because they find that it is easier to get funds from zionists and right-wingers than from average americans

.

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By ChaviztaKing, February 27, 2011 at 11:31 pm Link to this comment

I am always suspicious whenever USA supports opposition groups or dictators in other countries.

Notice how USA rushed to UNSC to enforce sanctions against Libya and wants to go to war against Libya. Yet, there are no sanctions against Bahrain, Qatar, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Oman, UAE and all other US puppet regimes no matter how brutal they are. USA and allies wanted South Sudan to split from Sudan and become a separate country where much of the oil resides. But, when South Yemen wants to split from Sudan, they are against an independent South Sudan.

US officials admitted that they are arming and helping Yemeni government to crush the rebellion. In fact, USA and its puppet leaders in Saudi Arabia were bombing Yemeni citizens since 2009 - remember the Huthi Rebellion. While the forces of puppet government of Bahrain were killing protesters, Admiral Mullen was in Bahrain to reassure the puppet rulers that USA supports them and will offer all military support they need. US military officials made a tour of other puppet regimes countries in the region to assure them of US support.

In addition to Afghanistan invasion, according to General Wesley Clark, the Pentagon, by late 2001, was planning to attack a total of seven countries, beginning with Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Iran, Somalia and Sudan. http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=2797 . The murder of Lebanon’s prime Minister Rafiq Hariri, so-called Cedar Revolution to drive Syrian forces out of Lebanon to make it easy for Israel to attack Lebanon were part of this plan. The unexpected Resistance in Iraq and Lebanon slowed them down. Now, they want to take the opportunity to attack Libya, pretending to be concerned about Libyan people.

USA has killed millions and has not stopped the killings and we are supposed to believe that USA is worried about the thousand or so killed in Libya to stop the rebellion. Looking at US history, when some states in USA wanted to secede from the union, President Lincoln unleashed his military might against his own citizens and much more than thousand people were killed. If similar uprising were to occur in USA today, US government would use all its forces to stop any rebellion. FBI already raids homes of peace activists and arrests them for being against US wars of aggression and police and security forces attack demonstrators against wars.

Something definitely stinks in Libyan protests when USA is supporting it. I suspect USA already has plans in place to install puppet regime in Libya and give the appearance of “democracy”. The litmus test is if USA supports someone or some government or opposition groups in Muslim and Arab countries, then, that is bad for the populations of those countries.

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By realveive, February 27, 2011 at 8:00 pm Link to this comment

Our goofy government ought to fix America before “fixing” other nations. We are rapidly sinking into a plutocracy and if that isn’t rectified we’ll be having our own version of anarchy and chaos. Let the UN give Libya whatever help it deems necessary.  The USA’s “helping” of late has turned us into economic basket cases and international pariahs.

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By ardee, February 27, 2011 at 7:58 pm Link to this comment

By Go Right Young Man, February 27 at 3:07 pm Link to this comment

Manchild,

My nation’s fitness to decide everything for everyone?

Everything for everyone?  Where do you come up with these oddities?

From your own words, jackwagon!

Your are the epitome of the Ugly, Arrogant, American whom believes the world revolves about you.  It’s embarrassing.

This, as my old psych 101 prof might note,is a perfect example of “projection”. It was not me who suggested that America is the be all and end all,.Neither was it me who noted that America has a responsibility to police the world. No, Mr. Wagon, that was you, almost endlessly in fact.

Your boastful and childish braggadocio marks you well, JWagon old man, and your posts become increasingly strident and immature.

I am happy to note that more and more here take up the cause of truth and sanity by rebutting your stuff and nonsense. I do understand those who simply refuse to read your trash, much less respond to it. But, in this era of right wing domination of the media and government, I do believe that each citizen has a duty to stand up against the kind of fascism you hold to be patriotism.

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By ardee, February 27, 2011 at 7:50 pm Link to this comment

diamond, February 27 at 10:48 pm

I only want to say that your presence on this site is a pleasure indeed..Very few bother to note the fabrications, distortions and outright lies of this self aggrandizing jackwagon. I hope it is because most are so disgusted with his ludicrous posturing that they do not even read his efforts.

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By diamond, February 27, 2011 at 5:48 pm Link to this comment

“Interesting answer.  I love French food and culture.  Although I’m not sure you understand just how small and poor France is.”

I’ve been to France so cut the patronizing pose. France may be small but it is not poor and the average French worker has a paycheck and a standard of living the average American worker can only dream of. You also seem not to know that France was once a mighty empire just as America now is and France did most if not all of the horrific things America is currently doing. But France stopped being an empire and grew up and America is still an empire and still a brat that wants to beat everyone else into submission. The question of who should dominate the world presupposes that someone has to dominate the world instead of sharing it with everyone else. Like a husband who beats his wife, America can’t see that force and brutality can create fear, but not respect.

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By dihey, February 27, 2011 at 3:28 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Libya is now in the state of an armed civil war. In order to avoid any semblance of using unarmed protesters in Tripoli as a ‘human shield’ against Gaddafi it is the ‘exile’ government in Benghazi that must ask the unarmed anti-Gaddafi demonstrators to stay off the streets.

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By rollzone, February 27, 2011 at 12:50 pm Link to this comment

hello again. having digested the thread, superpowers
and banks are now predominant in what to do about
Alice. superpowers, the superiority complex, the whole
biggest evil demon of our time (Adolf Hitler), the man
with the plan to cure the world:), the New World Order,
bankers with nukes- back away from the button.
eliminate all nuclear weapons now. space is awaiting
humankind, and all the monies used for the past two
generations slaughtering peoples, should have been used
to develop space habitation.

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By PatrickHenry, February 27, 2011 at 12:49 pm Link to this comment

GRYM

“So you’re an American who’s ashamed to be American.  I’m a citizen who understands the abundant opportunities America offers.”

Like I said before, you’re delusional.

You love living in the United States as you have exclaimed over and over but appear to be blinded by that love, I too love America and enjoy living here, however I take no pride in my government and its unilateral actions against citizens of other nations by twisting and ignoring the rule of law.

I do my best as a citizen and a voter to replace those in power making positions who think the voters from Wyoming gave them dominion over the world.

Politicians are like babys diapers, they need to be changed often and for the same reason.

And BTW, France is a country rich in culture and an example of a ‘free’ society.  We took a page out of their history books when we established this country but then we let the corporations and banks mangle the ideal of the ‘United States’ from there.  We collectively owe more per capitia than the French as well, so I am puzzled by your ‘poor’ misnomer.

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By rollzone, February 27, 2011 at 12:10 pm Link to this comment

hello. right now my body is being eaten by antibodies,
or biotics, or something supposed to do good.
meanwhile, let’s FedEX Moorboar a straight jacket, and
allow him enough time to get comfortable in it.

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By BR549, February 27, 2011 at 11:41 am Link to this comment

Go Right Young Man, February 27 at 4:21 pm
“Speaking of viewing too many Hollywood films.”
You brought that issue up, I gave up TV four years ago. Nice try though, although typically uninformed.

“Your view presupposes millions are not intentionally starved in China and arrested and beaten in Turkey for speaking out against the government.”
No, and how did you arrive at that conclusion? You’re hallucinating .... again.

“The United States and Israel are not the cause of the world’s ills.  Humans are.”
Well, all the countries you mentioned in your reply, among countless others, in today’s modern world, are all controlled or critically influenced by the banks. The globalist elites just can’t relax at night knowing that there might possibly be a country left on the planet that they don’t yet control, and their key vehicle for addressing that is through the banks. The US and Israel, along with GB, are
right at the top of the abuser list here. I don’t equate someone getting their head cut off in Sudan with the killing of millions of innocent civilians under the guise of “freedom and democracy” through well orchestrated plans of population reduction.

All these politicians, heads of state, rulers, etc. all keep doing the short term crash and burn method of government. They try something that they think will make them look good and, when the experiment goes bad, they decide to toss the lab rats in the dumpster and start over. When we ever do get someone who has a larger vision, I’m sure those pesky ne’er-do-wells in the Bilderberg Group will find some way to have that person assassinated. God forbid that we have a population of critical thinking citizens who have enough collective sense to downregulate their own population numbers.

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By Go Right Young Man, February 27, 2011 at 11:21 am Link to this comment

BR549, - “their progenitors are the banks, which they so willingly serve, invade and kill for.”

-

Speaking of viewing too many Hollywood films.

Your view presupposes millions are not intentionally starved in China and arrested and beaten in Turkey for speaking out against the government.  Your view presupposes that tens of thousands are not hacked to death by the government of Sudan and a Jew can travel through Gaza and not have her head cut off.

The United States and Israel are not the cause of the world’s ills.  Humans are.

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By BR549, February 27, 2011 at 10:57 am Link to this comment

Go Right Young Man, February 27 at 4:12 am
“As I’ve said, the United States and Israel are not the causes of the world’s ills.”

Since when? Secondary as those two may be, their progenitors are the banks, which they so willingly serve, invade and kill for.

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By Go Right Young Man, February 27, 2011 at 10:07 am Link to this comment

Manchild,

My nation’s fitness to decide everything for everyone?

Everything for everyone?  Where do you come up with these oddities? 

Your are the epitome of the Ugly, Arrogant, American whom believes the world revolves about you.  It’s embarrassing.

-

I do love a good John Wayne movie.  I outgrew Sesame Street at about the fourth grade.  - Want a cookie, Little One?  wink

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By ardee, February 27, 2011 at 8:51 am Link to this comment

Manchild,

It is through the lenses I describe above which leads me to say that I am rarely angered by so many of the opinions here.  I am embarrassed by them.  I brook no joy in writing it either.

Jackwagon,

What should embarrass you is your regressive vision of the USA as a dominant force in the world. You should be , but of course aren’t, embarrassed by your holding to such a childish view of your own nation’s fitness to decide everything for everyone.

Too many John Wayne movies I suspect.

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By Go Right Young Man, February 27, 2011 at 8:16 am Link to this comment

diamond,

Interesting answer.  I love French food and culture.  Although I’m not sure you understand just how small and poor France is.  Also corruption is rampant within the French government.

O.K., so now France is the remaining Superpower.  What must France do now to ensure that China, India, Russia or, for that matter, Britain doesn’t roll over the tiny nation and take it’s position? - It’s a serious, legitimate and necessary question to address next.

-

PatrickHenry,

So you’re an American who’s ashamed to be American.  I’m a citizen who understands the abundant opportunities America offers.

By the way; those wonderful United Nations disaster agencies would not exist if not for the prodding and the $CASH of the United States.

Nobody turns first to the United Nations after a catastrophe.  Everyone, however, turns first to the United States.  - Watch closely after the next major disaster.  Then return to this thread and tell me what we’re seeing.

The United States is not the cause of the world’s ills.  Humans are.

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By diamond, February 27, 2011 at 4:22 am Link to this comment

“The United States is the sole remaining Superpower left standing today.  To deny it is, simply stated, not dealing with the world as it is. - Which nation would you prefer in its stead?”

France. Better food. Better sex. And the government is afraid of the people and usually does what they want instead of spying on them, dragging them into wars they don’t want and using their tax money to bribe the corrupt and enrich the already obscenely wealthy. And Sarah Palin doesn’t live there. It’s a no-brainer.

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By PatrickHenry, February 26, 2011 at 11:45 pm Link to this comment

GRYM,

As I’ve said, the United States and Israel are not the causes of the world’s ills.

Thats a matter of opinion.

Ask the Palestinians, Syrians, Egyptians, Iraqis, Lebanese, Jordanians, Iranians, Cubans, Venezuelans, North Koreans and most of the South American Countries who have recognized Palestine amongst several other nations we snub in the U.N. by vetoing their votes.

nobody turns first to the United Nations after a catastrophe.  They always turn to the United States.  There’s a reason for that.  A reason you seem, for the being, unable to fathom.

How do you know this?  Read about it in a U.S. newspaper somewhere? You seem to have the U.S. taking credit for disaster aid everywhere and fail to understand that in most cases it is a joint effort and no, the U.S. is not in the lead.

http://198.170.125.112/Disaster_Management.asp


Thats the difference between us GRYM, you are a citizen of the United States and I am an American, theres a difference if you know it or not.

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By Go Right Young Man, February 26, 2011 at 11:12 pm Link to this comment

PatrickHenry,

As I’ve said, the United States and Israel are not the causes of the world’s ills. 

On this day there are real human beings in Libya wondering aloud where the American President stands on human rights for Libyans.  Few care what Hu Jintao can do for them.  There’s a reason for this state of affairs.  And it has nothing to do with the United States being really really mean.

The United States has many ills and faults.  That’s both a given and a monumental subject.  On the other hand nobody turns first to the United Nations after a catastrophe.  They always turn to the United States.  There’s a reason for that.  A reason you seem, for the being, unable to fathom.

-

You may have noticed?  I love being in the U.S..  It’s one of the best places on earth for pursuing personal aspirations, goals, religion or beliefs.  It’s a nation of tremendous resources, both natural and in human character, which many take for granted.

Poland is a nice place too.  Iranians are some of the most hospitable on Earth.  But I do so love being in the United States.

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By PatrickHenry, February 26, 2011 at 9:56 pm Link to this comment

GRYM,

“The United States is the sole remaining Superpower left standing today.”

Delusional thinking. 

Many member nations offer help after catastropes, the U.S. doesn’t have the lock on that.  As with Haiti, we send in armed Marines with blankets, Cubans send in doctors.  Groups like Sans de Medicines are not a ‘Superpower’ but they wield a greater power to host nations than the United States military currently holds.

It is far harder to heal, clothe, house and feed victims than it is to kill them.

The UN was designed to deal with world problems within a world community in a democratic fashion.  It was envisioned by Democrats both when it was the League of Nations and subsequently when the UN was founded.  It is the Republicans and our own military which are infected with the ‘Sole Superpower’ sickness and fight the inclusion of the United States fully into its framework, i.e world court. 

For good reason, many Repubicans would find themselves at the Hague.

Security Council vetos are counterproductive and a throwback mentality to having ‘Superpower status’ and therefore exemption from consequences of worldwide referendums.

I can clearly say the United States has become a bully nation by the threat of the use of force or rendition, witholding food, fuel, medicine and spare parts from our past exports unless the subject nation submits to our will and not their own citizens wishes.  There is nothing super about that kind of ‘power’.

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By rico, suave, February 26, 2011 at 9:50 pm Link to this comment

BBFmail:

The ultimate definition of “oxymoron”:

“A reality check from WorkersWorld.com:”

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By Go Right Young Man, February 26, 2011 at 8:22 pm Link to this comment

PatrickHenry,- “It takes more than military might to be a ‘superpower’.”

-

I could not agree more. 

From the beginning of this subject, and perhaps further back, you’ve made a terrific mistake in thinking we disagree on that.

The sole remaining Super-Power is the one everyone on the planet turns to for logistics and aid just after a catastrophe.  Including the militarily strong China and some of the most populace, India, Turkey, Indochina and, interestingly enough, Iran after a devastating earthquake.  Even N. Korea turns to and accepts help from the U.S. after floods that kill thousands.

The United States is the sole remaining Superpower left standing today.  To deny it is, simply stated, not dealing with the world as it is. - Which nation would you prefer in its stead?

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By PatrickHenry, February 26, 2011 at 7:56 pm Link to this comment

GRYM,

“sole remaining Superpower”

I find that jingoistic soundbite laughable and simplistic.

It takes more than military might to be a ‘superpower’.

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By Go Right Young Man, February 26, 2011 at 6:34 pm Link to this comment

PatrickHenry,

I listen. I pay attention. 

Opining that the U.S. should cut defense and build more schools and bridges is simplistic and easy to agree with.  I’m on board.

And, yet, we will still disagree on how the world of peopled nations operates when each rubs against one another.  In the world in which I reside the United States and Israel are not the causes of the world’s ills.  On that we will always disagree.

-

I do pay enough attention to understand that our disagreements do not demand us to be enemies.  I will remain optimistic in that sense.  However, as long as man inhabits Earth there will be so-called Super Powers.  It’s a simple question, made a great deal too difficult here, to ask which nation would one prefer to be the sole remaining Superpower today.

There WILL be a nation, or nations, at the pinnacle.  Deny that and one is living intently in one’s own head.  Even when sharing that same view with others.  It is simply unrealistic.

In my view the problems of the world are created by humans.  They eat and live on every continent on the planet.  And of all the places in the world I have lived, it’s in the United States that I am most able to be myself.  I love it here!  It would be an honor of the highest magnitude if I could be of aid in simply allowing others a true choice to live like so many in the West take for granted from morning to night. 

-

Manchild,

It is through the lenses I describe above which leads me to say that I am rarely angered by so many of the opinions here.  I am embarrassed by them.  I brook no joy in writing it either.

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By BR549, February 26, 2011 at 4:27 pm Link to this comment

Blackspeare,
Yes, sorry to say, I too fell for all the history book crap, but then looked back to reassess what could have taken place back then from the eyes of current day foreign policy. It really wasn’t a slavery issue back then, nor is it a foreign policy issue today. It is the total assumption of power and wealth through the influence of the banks.

Banks, those parasitic leeches on mankind, spend all their time convincing everyone why everyone needs to have money instead of a local barter system but when you think about it, all it has done is fragment our communities and families.

But back to the Civil War; after I saw what was really happening here today, it only showed that the same banking forces had been hard at work back then as Britain was not about to relinquish its control of the colonies, even in the 1860s. Vengeance, it seems, is the Crown’s most prominent attribute.

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By fearnotruth, February 26, 2011 at 2:29 pm Link to this comment

RE: ...slavery issue was just a political ruse…

pertinent lesson, possibly obliquely applicable to what’s happening with these ME
‘revolts’ - rally support for causes other than the behind-the-scenes goal - in the
case of this wave of ‘people-power, look-alike, color revolutions’, most likely, to
install ever more useful puppet regimes

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By Blackspeare, February 26, 2011 at 1:46 pm Link to this comment

BR549…

Finally someone who understands!  The US Civil War has been lost to legend as the victors always write history.  Yes BR549, slavery was on it’s way out, the South just needed time to adjust and it would have been accomplish within five years.  The US Civil War was in no way worth the devastation nor the 600,000 killed——what a shame.

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By BR549, February 26, 2011 at 1:15 pm Link to this comment

Blackspeare,
“.... except in that case the bad guys won!”

Amen. I’m from the North and keep getting more disgusted when I realize that the whole slavery issue was just a political ruse to justify the commercial exploitation of the south into paying for the corruption of the North. The North used the opportunity to impose its power over the South, just as it has continued that hegemonic philosophy in Central and South America and around the world.

Britain, that little pimple on the north side of Europe, wasn’t happy unless it was being perceived as a festering boil, and as it turned out, was not without its influence in tearing the US apart during that time.

All that aside, I do believe the slavery issue would have resolved itself. It was only a matter of time and many of the forefathers were already having reservations about it.

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By CJ, February 26, 2011 at 1:10 pm Link to this comment

Robinson has taken to that old slippery slope here. It’s hard to see how Gadhafi
(one spelling of what must be 50) is a “special case,” if Bush wasn’t. Or his
daddy, whom, people have forgotten, slaughtered Panamanians in the thousands;
or Clinton; or Reagan or Carter; or Nixon, Johnson and Kennedy; and even
Eisenhower and certainly Truman in Korea; and now Obama.

As Alex Cockburn noted a few years ago, the only post-War president for
which he had much use was Ford, the only one who didn’t have an excess of
blood on his hands.

The U.S., as empire and center of empire, is the government least qualified to
tell Gadhafi or his troops anything whatsoever. Until people—in media and out
—understand that the U.S. is not as claimed by its officials/propagandists so
long will Libyas tragically have to happen—if people are ever to realize the
freedom that is still only claimed and not yet realized. If people want
consciously to make their own history or histories. Proof is in the old pudding—
ongoing, indeed increasing poverty, which is no sign of good government,
assuming government ever was a good idea, which I doubt. Now Libyans too,
alongside Egyptians, are forming communities perfectly capable of leading
themselves, sans overseer governments.

Meanwhile, what the American people might do is ask their own officials to step
down. Peaceful as officials will allow—don’t count on that if
America’s own intentionally obscured labor history is to go by. Our election
thing is so busted and corrupt it no longer serves as means to legitimacy or to legitimize.

I SO wish that the more conscientious in mainstream, like Robinson and like
Conason and like Sirotta would themselves demand a whole lot more from their
own government. They have daises, especially Eugene Robinson. While Chris Hedges has been doing so for some time, obviously.
Instead of, as in this case, taking the same old line that calls for
DOING SOMETHING! YES, we all feel badly! Any decent human being does, but it is what it is and there is no way for outsiders to make it better that won’t make it worse.

Even did Obama have any right to speak at all, as Robinson notes, “Even by that
low standard, we are falling woefully short.” Hell, we fell short decades ago in
every way! Worse, we CAUSED and continue to cause so many “special case[s].”
(Karzai, e.g., and whatever thug is now in charge in Iraq. There was the Shah
with his secret cops, and then…the history is LONG and nasty and brutish, Mr.
Hobbs. Operation Condor, about which North Americans know nothing, etc., etc. on and on and on—in Cold War and out. Remember the “peace dividend,” that lie the was circulated? Government found new enemies by whom to profit. That’s fraud, plain and simple.)

What is to be done? Nothing—n-o-t-h-i-n-g. The U.S. (and its sometimes
allies) is part—if not entire—cause and so cannot be solution, especially when still murdering
and maiming civilians in other places, and ruining people in the so-called
homeland by its hopelessly miserly domestic policy that serves only the few. As
does its foreign policy serve only the few who more and more mistake
themselves for the many, with their “good intentions” daily paving the road to
hell for the actual many.

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By Blackspeare, February 26, 2011 at 12:57 pm Link to this comment

It’s a civil war stupid!  Let it play out.  I believe the USA had such a war in the 1860’s except in that case the bad guys won!  If there was an Internet back then——Grant and Sherman would certainly be indicted for war crimes!

It is interesting that the Saudis offered to increase production to make up for the Lybian loss——only words.  The Saudi ruling family just gave out $36 billion to assuage their people not to revolt.  They now need the higher oil price to make up that loss!

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By PatrickHenry, February 26, 2011 at 10:31 am Link to this comment

Lafayette,

MY POINT

We’d do better to bring the boys home and reduce defense spending to allocate the funds to economic spending (particularly investments in education and enhancing workforce skills).

We’ve wasted too much money on the DoD obtaining too little bang-for-the-buck.

A very sound and rational post. 

GRYM pay attention.

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By ardee, February 26, 2011 at 10:30 am Link to this comment

Much as I hate to read, much less comment upon, the ravings of GRYM,  this comment of his:

So I ask you yet again.  If not for the United States as the known super power today, which nation would you prefer to take that role?

is so illustrative of what is wrong with his politics that it bears the commenting. We have, in this world, an institution you all might remember, the United Nations.

Now I know as well as you that this is a rather flawed effort to provide an arena in which all nations can work for the good of all, yet it does currently represent the hope that a right wing jackwagon’s psychotic views of world domination by his place of birth is less necessity than sickness.

On the theme of US involvement in the events in Libya, well, I wish Obama was more involved in the events in the USA as Libyans , Egyptians, and the rest of those working to end despotism in their own nations seem rather capable of doing so.

There is much work to do here, as the American way of life is under attack rather strenuously in fact. The extremely wealthy far right is fomenting a charge back to the eighteen hundreds, abetted to be certain, by the Republican Party. But it is also being aided by the silence of the Democratic Party ( exception made to those admirable legislators in Wisconsin) and the empty rhetoric of its leader and our President.

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By GrantL, February 26, 2011 at 5:28 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“And those consequences need to be spelled out. A chorus of world leaders should make clear that those who commit war crimes, such as firing on civilians, will personally be held accountable. If the avenging mob doesn’t get them, international justice will.”

Yeah right, just like it got Bush and Blair….Gaddaffi must be quacking in his boots.

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By fearnotruth, February 26, 2011 at 5:19 am Link to this comment

some stuff on Libya not so easy to find - confirming accuracy would take more
serious digging, but suggests more than meets the eye and worth considering…

from http://www.philipbrennan.net/2011/02/12/operation-overthrow-libya/

[...]

Refugees and internally displaced persons:
Refugees (country of origin): 8,000 (Palestinian Territories) (2007)

Trafficking in persons:
Current Situation: Libya is a transit and destination country for men and women
from sub-Saharan Africa and Asia trafficked for the purposes of forced labor
and commercial sexual exploitation.

Tier Rating - Tier 2 Watch List: Libya is on the Tier 2 Watch List for its failure to
provide evidence of increasing efforts to address trafficking in persons in 2007
when compared to 2006, particularly in the area of investigating and
prosecuting trafficking offenses; Libya did not publicly release any data on
investigations or punishment of any trafficking offenses (2008)
The above information is courtesy and copyright of the Central Intelligence
Agency. I might dislike those buggers, but they still know what is what…

And now for the real scoop that the CIA will not tell you:
Libya is gonna be far harder to topple because it is where the CIA have all their
black bases for training up terrorists and torturing ‘terrorist’ suspects (i.e.,
innocent goat-herders from the mountains of Afghanistan).

Both the CIA and MI6 used Libya in the 1970s and 1980s to train up the
Provisional IRA in the use of Semtex and guerilla warfare.

The CIA used Libya to train up their Mujahideen and Al Qaeda in the 1980s and
1990s to do al the false flags in the Middle East.

Libya was set up to be a pariah state so that the CIA and MI6 could run all their
little black operations from there.

Libyan Intelligence had nothing to do with Lockerbie. It was Mossad that did it.
Gaddaffi is a tool of the Western Intelligence Agencies and a New World Order
stooge.

[...]

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By Lafayette, February 26, 2011 at 4:25 am Link to this comment

BANK FOR YOUR BUCK

GRYM: Today there is one considered “Super Power” on this planet.  That is, like it or not, the United States.

Yes, just the sort of mindless orthodoxy that we can expect from the Right. Sound bites that make Uncle Sam look like a swaggering Marine in a bar.

In fact, our might is military ... and as such it is bogged down in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Other Economic Power is China and, thus, America is NOT the clear Economic Super Power Champion on this planet.

Between Economic and Military Power, which does anyone think more important nowadays? I figure it is the former and not the latter.

MY POINT

We’d do better to bring the boys home and reduce defense spending to allocate the funds to economic spending (particularly investments in education and enhancing workforce skills).

We’ve wasted too much money on the DoD obtaining too little bang-for-the-buck.

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By Lafayette, February 26, 2011 at 4:14 am Link to this comment

KHADAFFI’S GIRLS & BOYS

ER: ragtag bands of insurgents are no match for modern jet fighters or helicopter gunships or naval vessels that can bombard coastal population centers from miles offshore.

This is a gross misinterpretation of the viability of such forces. The army is made of Libyans and they will likely be very halting in their desire to kill fellow countrymen, women and children.

Besides, Kadaffi never trusted the military that made him king. The army is not as well equipped as is the Egyptian Army, where America had tremendous influence.

In fact, Kadaffi and his sons trust only the African and Serbian mercenaries that he has hired at $10,000 each. They are the ones doing most of the killing and they form his Presidential Guard. Kadaffi does not even trust his own people, he such a paranoiac personality - and his sons are helpless without him.

Khaddafi has a personal guard that consists of Chadian women. And it is not only guard duty that is amongst their tasks. Aside from his Ukranian female doctor that he takes with him wherever he goes. He trusts no one who is Libyan.

ER overlooks also the tribal factor. Kadaffi comes from a tribe that has benefited handsomely from his dictatorship. His is not the only tribe in Libya, which is why the east around Benghazi has fallen.

There is much more that world leaders—beginning with Obama—urgently must say and do.

Like what? Send in the Marines? Isn’t there enough bitching and moaning in America about using tactical force in other parts of the world? Libya is not Grenada in the Caribbean or Panama in Central America ...

This is foolish armchair punditry that thinks America has leverage in the Middle East. We sold ourselves out to Israel with Carter, meaning since the Isreali-Egyptian Treaty Jimmy negotiates between them, we pay Egypt to to do nothing about Israel.

(Also, the leader of Bahrain went to military school in Virginia and his son is a graduate of the American University in Washington.)

In fact, the EU has far more political sway in that part of the world, because it is less involved militarily.

THE OIL CARD

Petroleum is already at $120 a barrel in London and Libya is no longer delivering. If the Western World could do more it would be to ask Opec to pick up the slack, such that Kaddafi does not have oil as a bargaining tool.

We must unfortunately expect this situation to fester. I doubt the Serbian mercenaries will stick around if the situation gets much hotter. In which case, Kaddafi & Co are really out-of-business. Off to the Arabian Peninsula with them, where they can schmooze with the Ben Ali family of Tunisia and Moubarak clan of Egypt.

Whilst their ex-countries get back to business without these pirates.

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By Go Right Young Man, February 26, 2011 at 2:17 am Link to this comment

gerard, - “Apparently I didn’t make myself clear:”

-

That is correct.  You have not made yourself clear.

Today there is one considered “Super Power” on this planet.  That is, like it or not, the United States.

If the United States should fall this coming week, the following week will see a different “Super Power” step up to that plate.  Perhaps even a few nations will vie for the spot(s). Denying this to be true is denying the very nature of man.  Deny the nature of man and nothing you say or opine will amount to much of anything but a tiny space on the global Web.

So I ask you yet again.  If not for the United States as the known super power today, which nation would you prefer to take that role?

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By gerard, February 26, 2011 at 1:17 am Link to this comment

GRYM:  Apparently I didn’t make myself clear:
  I don’t want any nation to be the “last remaining super-power.”  Furthermore, if it should come to that “last remaining” bit, the term and the idea of any “super-power” is stupid and meaningless.
  Super-power over what?  A bunch of fat, happy ignorant Americans (or any other nationality) pulling each others’ hair out over religion?
  Over a ruined earth full of pollution, dead animals and crazed, starving, sick human beings of whatever color?
  Over 10 billion screaming infants with no future and no possibility of growing up?
  Over a nuclear wasteland?  A bunch of lost souls traumatized by war and weapons of mass destruction?
  You need to think, sir.  Sorry to put it flat out like that, but flat out, that’s my advice to you.
  Get a grip!

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By PatrickHenry, February 25, 2011 at 7:51 pm Link to this comment

What to do about the Mad Colonel?

Support the opposition to get him removed.  Offer him an out, dose him on thorizine and give him a corner room with a view.

Keep the US military out of it.  This is the Libyans matter and any US involvement only strengthens Kadaffis hand.  Besides the US sucks at exit stratagies, once we go in we never leave and everybody knows it.

I wish the US got this involved about the Palestinians when they are getting bombed, embargoed and worse.

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By BR549, February 25, 2011 at 5:38 pm Link to this comment

ER:  “the Libyan government has a responsibility to refrain from violence,”  and “..... those who commit war crimes, such as firing on civilians, will personally be held accountable.”

It will be interesting to see what excuses Obama uses to authorize shooting on the American population. Between the 850+ detention centers located in the US alone, along with the LRAD and ASD devices and the countless foreign troops already stationed here for “training exercises”, what do YOU think is really going to happen? What loyalties would they have when we have intentionally tied up all our fighting age men overseas under the guise of fighting for freedom. If they ever do get back home after the shit hits the fan, they’d be the first to storm the Capitol and it wouldn’t be to congratulate the legislature for a job well done. It should be as no surprise, then, why we’ve spread ourselves so thin across the globe. It was never about actually winning anything, although it very conveniently got all those personnel out of the country.

This assault on the American population has been going on since the Reagan Administration and has gotten progressively worse with each successive presidency. It’s gotten to the point where all we have is the same old tag team with Democrats and Republicans trading off between each other whenever the voters actually start to think there might be any meaningful change.

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By Go Right Young Man, February 25, 2011 at 5:24 pm Link to this comment

gerard,

I have asked you the same question perhaps more than a dozen times.  You are never able to answer.

As I wrote in my previous post; you have a great many opinions.  Never an answer.

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By BBFmail, February 25, 2011 at 5:07 pm Link to this comment

A reality check from WorkersWorld.com:

It is important for “progressives” to remember that many of the people being promoted in the West as leaders of the opposition are long-time agents of imperialism. The BBC on Feb. 22 showed footage of crowds in Benghazi pulling down the green flag of the republic and replacing it with the flag of the overthrown monarch King Idris - who had been a puppet of U.S. and British imperialism.

The Western media are basing a great deal of their reporting on supposed facts provided by the exile group National Front for the Salvation of Libya, which was trained and financed by the U.S. CIA. Google the front’s name plus CIA and you will find hundreds of references.

The Wall Street Journal in a Feb. 23 editorial wrote that “The U.S. and Europe should help Libyans overthrow the Gadhafi regime.” There is no talk in the board rooms or the corridors of Washington about intervening to help the people of Kuwait or Saudi Arabia or Bahrain overthrow their dictatorial rulers. Even with all the lip service being paid to the mass struggles rocking the region right now, that would be unthinkable. As for Egypt and Tunisia, the imperialists are pulling every string they can to get the masses off the streets.

There was no talk of U.S. intervention to help the Palestinian people of Gaza when thousands died from being blockaded, bombed and invaded by Israel. Just the opposite. The U.S. intervened to prevent condemnation of the Zionist settler state.

Imperialism’s interest in Libya is not hard to find. Bloomberg.com wrote on Feb. 22 that while Libya is Africa’s third-largest producer of oil, it has the continent’s largest proven reserves - 44.3 billion barrels. It is a country with a relatively small population but the potential to produce huge profits for the giant oil companies. That’s how the super-rich look at it, and that’s what underlies their professed concern for the people’s democratic rights in Libya.

Getting concessions out of Gadhafi is not enough for the imperialist oil barons. They want a government that they can own outright, lock, stock and barrel. They have never forgiven Gadhafi for overthrowing the monarchy and nationalizing the oil. Fidel Castro of Cuba in his column “Reflections” takes note of imperialism’s hunger for oil and warns that the U.S. is laying the basis for military intervention in Libya.

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By gerard, February 25, 2011 at 3:58 pm Link to this comment

GRYM:  Sorry I missed out on your question, time-wise:  “So I’ll ask once again.  Who do you choose to be the sole remaining superpower?”
  A few questions for you, instead:
1.  What makes you think a “sole remaining superpower” would be a good idea, no matter who it is?
2.  As to my doubts about American “smarts”: There are so many evidences of American stupidity running around loose in the world today that I (and a lot of other people) are in a state of absolute despair about our country. It would take too long to list all of our national stupidities, day after day, year after year. But when the richest, most militarily powerful country in the world chooses to let its own people go without health care, yet supports hundreds of military bases around the world and wars against smaller nations for decades,  dominates the United Nations, lies to its own people, does not listen to criticism and jails “whistle-blowers”, lets its rich men buy elections, has a Supreme Court that thinks of itself as a “person” and won’t prosecute torturers and close Guantanamo but instead decrees that it can use “extraordinary rendition” whenever and wherever ... well, it’s hard to make a case for benevolence, isn’t it?

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By expat, February 25, 2011 at 3:11 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

everybody else got all their citizens out…

except the US…

Why?  could it be…

the perfect excuse for another neocon wet dream i.e. INVASION?

to “stabilize” north Africa and make sure those people’s revolutions are coopted for the interest of israel and its vassal the uSSa.


The real problem is not gadhafi, tough admittedly he is despicable.

The problem is the illegitimate pseudo entity israel,

the problem is the evil empire trying to claw its way into everything everywhere, namely the US.

Revolution. I’m all for it…

but let’s get rid of the real villains.

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By SarcastiCanuck, February 25, 2011 at 2:05 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Send in the SEALS to grab his boney ass.Bring him back to the States and send him to Wall St. where they can put him in charge of forclosures and repos.Then watch that bottom line grow my fellow republicans.Hoowahhhhhh

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By Go Right Young Man, February 25, 2011 at 1:49 pm Link to this comment

Big B, - “GRYM So the US does no wrong, ever?”

-

Your trouble is, by and large, you have no idea how to listen when someone says or writes things which don’t line-up with your views.

I’ve never written anything concerning the U.S. never doing wrong.  Nor have I opined that the United States is the cause of the world’s ills.  Both views are completely unrealistic.

Learn to assume less and listen more.

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By MeHere, February 25, 2011 at 1:04 pm Link to this comment

Mr. Robinson, how could you write such irresponsible nonsense?  OK, I guess you
need to learn a few things yet -we all do. The US has ignored the deadly
repression that friendly states have imposed on their people for decades, and now
you’re asking for intervention?  In troubled countries, there’s no trust in the US. 
Don’t you know that most of the time US threats and interventions have given rise
to corrupt leaders who are encouraged to gain power by the US?  Our government
is not interested in mitigating suffering. Their interest is in maintaining a quiet
status quo.  Washington DC cannot take care of the enormous inequality and
poverty level that exists close to the White House. What do you honestly think they can do for Libya?

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By JDmysticDJ, February 25, 2011 at 12:45 pm Link to this comment

It’s easy to ridicule Gahdafi’s image on the world stage, but I’ve seen the recorded image of his demeanor in public settings. He is a man of charisma, and presence. His enigmatic charisma far exceeds that of many other world leaders. He has been very successful at controlling and manipulating his sycophants, and eliminating his opponents. Unfortunately, past actions of Western powers have given him legitimacy to some.

Clearly Gahdafi is sociopathic, and a narcissist of the worst sort. I believe he considers himself to be of the divine. He is extremely dangerous to the people he governs. He is nominally Muslim, but the enemy of Islamists. His recent actions place him among some of the worst villains of recent history, in behavior, but not yet in magnitude.

Gahdafi’s actions have created a dilemma that doesn’t appear to have an easy solution. Blood is being shed, and more blood will be shed. Hopefully world leaders will take actions that minimize, and not increase, the blood letting. Perhaps leaving the solution of this dilemma to the people of Libya, though fraught with consequences, will be the most efficacious, in the long run.

It should go without saying that the models of Iraq and Afghanistan do not offer a sensible solution, to say the least.  Perhaps the historical model of U.S. led, United Nations supported, NATO intervention in the Balkans would be the best model, a coalition with Arab Governments would be necessary, but difficult, and there are complexities that make an outcome similar to that of the Balkans doubtful.

Hopefully procrastination by world leaders, or ill-advised military actions by the West, will not result in additional, or increased, death, suffering, and prolonged violence eliciting animosity.  My personal inclination would be towards non-intervention, but that inclination is fraught with confliction, and could change depending on developing circumstances. I may be leaning towards procrastination in my own personal beliefs, but I fear the tendency to go off half cocked, so to speak. It’s possible that indecision, at the present time, is the most logical course of action.

I firmly believe that previous ill-conceived U.S. foreign policy, has contributed to a political environment in that area of the world which makes seemingly constructive action on the part of the U.S. more difficult; even counter productive to prospects for a long lasting peaceful outcome. Based on the historical record, I fear that our political leaders will be guided by the advice of realpolitik practitioners, and I fear that our leaders will not devote enough thought to the preeminence of humanitarian concerns. Perhaps the historical record influences one towards being cynical.

Creating a “no-fly zone” in ordinary circumstances would not be advisable in my humble opinion, but these are not ordinary circumstances. Logic would dictate that the creation of a “no-fly zone” would have to be weighed against the consequences of not creating a “no-fly zone.” I fear that the historical record, and partisan politics in the U.S., will be an obstacle to rational, well reasoned action, or well reasoned non-action. I suppose that the current reality suggests a lack of decisive action, but clearly our political and military leaders, are discussing, and planning a variety of options. Let us hope that the choices made will be the best ones, from a humanitarian perspective.

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By Big B, February 25, 2011 at 12:41 pm Link to this comment

GRYM

So the US does no wrong, ever? Your pathetic.

I suppose when we imprison an innocent man, and torture him at a black site that we are in the right?

When america commits an attrocity, it belittles us all. If you want to live in a nation that never admits liability, and feels above the law at all times, well, there is always Libya(or sudan, or china, or Nigeria, Saudi Arabia…you get the point.)

The easiest way to cripple this despot is simple, stop buying his oil. Every time we or the european union purchase his and the saudis oil, we give taccid approve to the brutal regimes that pump it. But hey, we did set up these puppet kingdoms after WWII for just this purpose. Keep the oil flowing, and keep the arab population in check. It keeps us in cars and microwave ovens, and keeps them in subserviant poverty (just like the africans, the south americans, and the chinese) I guess as oil stocks dwindle, the joke is on us, eh?

How much longer did we think the dregs of the world would stay in their ghettos? We in the oil addicted west really want Ghadafi and all the middle eastern strongmen to hold out until the oil runs out. Democracy? shit, we’re not even interested in democracy here. We especially don’t want it in the third world.

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By TDoff, February 25, 2011 at 12:20 pm Link to this comment

This is silly, this question about “What to do about Libya’s ‘Mad Colonel’”? The answer is obvious. Buy him off, give him a mega-buck ‘bonus’, hire him and put him in charge of the Pentagon. He’ll fit right in.

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By ImpeachTheCriminals, February 25, 2011 at 9:07 am Link to this comment

When I read the words “What to do” in the title, I had a sinking feeling that the column to follow would include a feature that is common to the vast majority of commentary by Americans on events in the Middle East: Hypocrisy.  Unfortunately, I found it in E Robinson’s proposal: “The United States should lead NATO in immediately declaring a no-fly zone for Gadhafi’s military aircraft…”

What gives the US the right to intervene militarily over the territory of a foreign country?  The answer is “Nothing.”  The US government is still lording it over Iraq, a country where we committed the supreme crime of aggression, committed actual genocide - approximately one million Iraqis killed, mostly by our weapons or as a result of our invasion - split the country up along sectarian and ethnic lines, built huge military bases that appear permanent, and continue to try to control the government we installed.  The US is a serial aggressor.

Aggression is a worse crime than killing the citizens of one’s own country.  Our aggression means that we have no moral right to impose no-fly zones, make pompous pronouncements about democracy, or intervene anywhere in any violent way.  Once we get our troops completely out of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan, and pay reparations to the people of these countries, we might be able to consider questions like “What to do about (whoever).”  At this moment, the moral balance of the US is bankrupt, zero.  Until it recognizes its heinous sins and repents for them, the US Government should shut up and get out.  That includes the CIA, which is probably busy at this moment working on ways to thwart the will of the large majority of the people of Egypt.

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By surfnow, February 25, 2011 at 9:02 am Link to this comment

Hasn’t anyone ever read the transcripts of Nixon’s insane rantings? Reagan wasn’t clinically demented?  Bush wasn’t a “reformed” coke head and a dry drunk with serious psychological issues which led him to overcompensate by going to war? Dick Cheney was normal? The only thing that kept Cheney from being a serial killer was that he did all of his killing at the highest levels of government while wrapped in the Amerikan flag. All of this talk- including from this jerk Eugene Robinson- is about beating the war drums. It’s always about oil and war profiteering.

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By Go Right Young Man, February 25, 2011 at 8:46 am Link to this comment

“Obama should state plainly that we no longer consider Gadhafi’s regime to be the legitimate government of Libya and that the dictator must immediately step down.” - Eugene Robinson

-

How many times have we seen and heard Mr. Robinson drone on incessantly about evil American interference abroad?

This man is almost never consistent.  His opinions change more than Lady Gaga has outfits. 

-

gerard,

No matter the subject, you’re there ranting on about how smart you are, but never once offering positive solutions, and how wholly inadequate and ignorant all of America is. - No matter the subject, everyone on the planet is better than an American.

So I’ll ask once again.  Who do you choose to be the sole remaining superpower?

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By SoTexGuy, February 25, 2011 at 8:09 am Link to this comment

What to do? Why, sign new billion dollar oil deals with him!

Didn’t BP just do that?

Yesterdays financial news:

BP and its Libyan partner, the Libya Investment Corporation (LIC), today signed a major exploration and production agreement with Libya’s National Oil Company (NOC). The initial exploration commitment is set at a minimum of $900million, with significant additional appraisal and development expenditures upon exploration success.


The agreement was signed today in Sirt, Libya, by BP’s group chief executive Tony Hayward and NOC chairman, Shokri Ghanem.

HooBoy!

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By gerard, February 25, 2011 at 12:15 am Link to this comment

The level of understanding—whether of different cultures or of different (aberrant) personalites is scarcely considered important by our egotistical officials. Watching both Bush and Hillary stand up in public and shake index fingers at foreign leaders is all the evidence you need.
  Given the evidence of this truth, the best thing our “diplomats” can do is to smile and keep their mouths shut and deal through the United Nations, or Britain and France, who possibly are more sophisticated and cosmopolitan.
  Americans—let’s face it—are woefully simple-minded, naive, and cocksure. Their diplomatic skills are mostly confined to crude bribery through weapons sales or huge hunks of money.  I tremble to think of the effect when Obama (one who should know better) comes out with these bowlderized cautionary remarks about “not shooting you own people” when our CIA and FBI daily indulge in reputation-shattering, intimidating “investigations” and “allegations” concerning people whose intentions are so far from “terrorism” as to be laughably undeserving of night raids, door-kickings-in and arrests—if they weren’t so destructive of the civic comity.

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