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What Gov. Walker Won’t Tell You

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Posted on Feb 21, 2011
AP / Andy Manis

The Wisconsin governor, elected in November’s GOP wave that also gave control of the state Assembly and Senate to Republicans, set off the protests by pushing ahead with a measure that would require government workers to contribute more to their health care and pension costs and largely eliminate their collective bargaining rights.

By Stanley Kutler

There is a kernel of truth in Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker’s claim of a “budget shortfall” of $137 million. But Walker, a Republican, failed to tell the state that less than two weeks into his term as governor, he, with his swollen Republican majorities in the Wisconsin Legislature, pushed through $117 million in tax breaks for business allies of the GOP. There is your crisis.

The state Legislature’s Legislative Fiscal Bureau—Wisconsin’s equivalent of the Congressional Budget Office and a refuge for professional expertise and nonpartisanship—warned Walker and the Legislature that the measure would create a budget gap. There is your shortfall—and not one resulting from established public employee benefits. Before the tax giveaways, the fiscal agency predicted a surplus for the state.

Now the governor has offered a proposal simple and clear in its intent, and patently dishonest. Walker wants state workers to contribute to their pension fund and is calling for an increase in their payments for medical insurance. Make no mistake: The governor’s “budget repair bill” has little to do with a budget shortfall and everything to do with breaking unions, starting with public employees and then perhaps moving on to others as well.

During his run for governor, Walker had substantial financial support from the Koch brothers, billionaire industrialists who have funded various anti-Obama, anti-science, and anti-national government movements. In short, they are opposed to anyone and anything that might diminish their exorbitant profits. And for the Kochs, destroying labor unions is in the top tier of their to-get-rid-of list.

Walker’s own hostility to labor unions is a touchstone of his prior political experience. He is out to realize his every long-held political fantasy, with the help of such allies as the National Association of Manufacturers; Wisconsin Manufacturers and Commerce; and the Chamber of Commerce. Ever since the 1930s, when national law recognized the right of workers to organize and bargain collectively, that gain has been under assault from right-wing ideologues and much of the business community.

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Public employees in Wisconsin, as elsewhere, do not have a recognized “right to strike.” But they have a right to a union, with the power to negotiate wages and the conditions of work. That is Walker’s real target, and after he deals with it perhaps he can move to make Wisconsin a “right-to-work” state, devoid of any protections for labor unions, just like Mississippi. Now we can understand Walker’s mantra: “Wisconsin is open for business.” What a “popular,” appealing position! Everyone likes to complain about bureaucrats and teachers—lazy, incompetent and, withal, overpaid. Never mind that studies portray a public work force earning 8 to 15 percent less than similarly situated private sector employees, with the spread even wider among more educated workers.

The governor and his allies like to frame their goal as one that would destroy the special privileges of public employees—as if a Cadillac class of public workers exists in the state. In truth, many public employees secured increased benefits in the 1970s, a time which saw the notion of a “budget crunch” come into play, and the state bargained its way out of salary increases (incidentally, during a time of rising inflation) in exchange for increased employee benefits.

The “February Thaw” brought out an estimated 50,000 or more public employees, teachers, ordinary citizens and students to demonstrate against Walker’s budget repair bill. Montesquieu, the 18th century French political philosopher, wrote about the impact of environment on human and societal behavior. Cold, icy climates, he said, generally dampened human passions, thus lessening chances of “public disorder.” Walker should have offered his legislation during the first three weeks of January, when temperatures hovered just above zero.

Confronting the protests, Walker has framed the issue in stark, simple terms. It is, he said, a battle between “protesters” and “taxpayers.” That followed the obligatory remarks about outside agitators—shades of Mississippi governors in the 1960s. Indeed, the media obliged him by making the increasingly marginalized Jesse Jackson the centerpiece of the protests, thus seeming to confirm Walker’s contention about outside agitators.

After three days of protests, the largest union offered to concede the pension and health insurance payments in exchange for continued recognition of the right to negotiate wage and working conditions. The governor bluntly replied that the time for negotiations had passed, but the truth is that at no time did he offer any negotiation on these matters. If your ideological baggage has no room for workers’ rights, then you will rule by dictate and fiat. Walker’s baggage overflows with hostility for workers.

Walker insists that the budget shortfall requires that state workers, like everyone else in society, must carry their fair share of the burden. But the governor is causing pain to no one else to remedy the situation. Michigan’s Republican Gov. Rick Snyder offered a $45 billion cost-cutting budget, but he said he would take only $1 in salary as part of the “shared sacrifice.” Meanwhile, Snyder, unlike Walker, has begun negotiations with public employees unions to increase workers’ shares of pension and health care costs.


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MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, February 28, 2011 at 10:55 pm Link to this comment

The DLC, the PPI, the 3rd Way, the Neoliberals,
the Neocons and the New Democrats of the New
Class Conservative Movement in the Democratic
Party have propagandized the Middle Class to be
the Common Population as a trope with only
subjective representation for all the Middle Class
except the upper 20%, so that the Common
Population, as Middle Class cuckolds, will keep
the Middle Class Duopoly enthroned in
cooperation with the Elite Capitalist Class of the
Republican Party, but sooner or later the
Common Population are going to become aware
and realize that the only ones of the Middle Class
getting benefit are the few corporate toadys, the
20% or 2/10th at the top of the pyramid, a few
poor at the base of the pyramid, and the 10% or
1/10th Corporate Elite Capitalists at the top of
the pyramid and all the rest of the supposed
Middle Class receive no benefit at all in the
Middle Class Ponzi Scheme, but do all the paying
and working.  Sooner or later they will realize
that a 3rd Political Party is a necessity to
represent the best interest of the 70% Majority
American Populace, that is 7/10th of the
population that are being duped in the United
States.

Report this
Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, February 28, 2011 at 9:28 pm Link to this comment

Absolutisms become you, Martha A,..... so it seems the correctness of Martha A is so absolute,  she or he seems so right in everything he or she says, they could be construed very clearly as right wing conservatives in their own certainty.

Daman,.... Where is Ozark Michael when you need him!

This kind of nit picking and my kind of foolishness means the twain shall never meet in the middle!

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, February 28, 2011 at 8:53 pm Link to this comment

It is foolishness to declare definitions foolishness
and foolishness to declare everyone that isn’t
rich to be the middle class except the poor, great
propaganda for the wealthy, but foolishness if
one wants actual political representation when
they are actually members of the 70%
Majority Common Population
. Anyone who
isn’t of the 10% noble wealthy or the 20% nearly
noble wealthy are a part of the 70% Majority
Common Population, the American Populace.

The following is a World Book Encyclopedia
Dictionary Definition, Copyright 1970, before the
middle class was so widely propagandized:


NOTICE:  Middle Class does not include
working people: 


middle class, the people between the
aristocracy or the
very wealthy and the working class.  In Great
Britain, it includes
the class socially and conventionally between the
aristocratic class
and the laboring class, such as professional
men, bankers, owners of relatively large
businesses, and small gentry;bourgeois.

gen·try (jntr)
n. pl. gen·tries
1. People of gentle birth, good breeding, or high
social position.
2. a. An upper or ruling class.  b. The class of
English landowners
ranking just below the nobility.
http://www.answers.com/topic/gentry

The above definition of gentry is from
Answers.com.  Middle Class has never included
the Common Population which is what $25,000.
to $100,000 is.  Propaganda no matter how
much it appears real is only rhetoric to
emotionally lead people to believe falsely and
accept as truth something that isn’t.  The Middle
Class has been propagandized by the neocon,
neoliberal, DLC, 3rd Way and New Democrats to
be something it is not and keeping the whole class
and culture of the American Populace from
having legitimate political representation in the
making of legislative law and order in the best
interest of the 70% Majority Common Population,
the American Populace, who are not in any way
the middle class. 

Middle Class has been propagandized by the
Middle Class and the Right to avoid
representation of the common population, the
majority population.  As long as the American
Populace allow their class and culture to be
divided into various middles and a poor class
there can NEVER be legitimate political
representation as anything but children and
subjects of the throne, but as the American
Populace Class and Culture
the common
population could rally and get political
representation at the table with both the
Corporate Middle Class and the Corporate Elite
Capitalist Class as equals.

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, February 28, 2011 at 8:52 pm Link to this comment

It is foolishness to declare definitions foolishness
and foolishness to declare everyone that isn’t
rich to be the middle class except the poor, great
propaganda for the weathy, but foolishness if
one wants actual political representation when
they are actually members of the 70%
Majority Common Population
. Anyone who
isn’t of the 10% noble wealthy or the 20% nearly
noble wealthy are a part of the 70% Majority
Common Population, the American Populace.

The following is a World Book Encyclopedia
Dictionary Definition, Copyright 1970, before the
middle class was so widely propagandized:


NOTICE:  Middle Class does not include
working people: 


middle class, the people between the
aristocracy or the
very wealthy and the working class.  In Great
Britain, it includes
the class socially and conventionally between the
aristocratic class
and the laboring class, such as professional
men, bankers, owners of relatively large
businesses, and small gentry;bourgeois.

gen·try (jntr)
n. pl. gen·tries
1. People of gentle birth, good breeding, or high
social position.
2. a. An upper or ruling class.  b. The class of
English landowners
ranking just below the nobility.
http://www.answers.com/topic/gentry

The above definition of gentry is from
Answers.com.  Middle Class has never included
the Common Population which is what $25,000.
to $100,000 is.  Propaganda no matter how
much it appears real is only rhetoric to
emotionally lead people to believe falsely and
accept as truth something that isn’t.  The Middle
Class has been propagandized by the neocon,
neoliberal, DLC, 3rd Way and New Democrats to
be something it is not and keeping the whole class
and culture of the American Populace from
having legitimate political representation in the
making of legislative law and order in the best
interest of the 70% Majority Common Population,
the American Populace, who are not in any way
the middle class. 

Middle Class has been propagandized by the
Middle Class and the Right to avoid
representation of the common population, the
majority population.  As long as the American
Populace allow their class and culture to be
divided into various middles and a poor class
there can NEVER be legitimate political
representation as anything but children and
subjects of the throne, but as the American
Populace Class and Culture
the common
population could rally and get political
representation at the table with both the
Corporate Middle Class and the Corporate Elite
Capitalist Class as equals.

Report this
Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, February 28, 2011 at 4:30 pm Link to this comment

I do not care what the dictionary definition of middle class is. This is nit picking to me.  It seems in Minnesota the Governor has raised taxes on the wealthy, according to Martha the middle class? We can make it more confusing by saying the upper middle class as opposed to the lower middle class and not including the the upper poor classes.

It does not matter what class they are, the protests in Wisconsin have reached 100,000 check this link; great photos:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/28/950947/-100,000-March-on-Walker-(Photo-Diary

All this protesting going on is making me hungry! Go Wisconsin, show the rest of the nation what Egypt did, dumping their despot, Walker you are next! (Well I hope so anyway!) 

Maybe some of the antiwar protests could gather some steam or momentum from Wisconsin, including the Vets and Heges planned protest in Washington this month.

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MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, February 28, 2011 at 1:13 pm Link to this comment

kulu, February 28 at 8:31 am,

As is no other party, the Green Party is not
legislated equal with the Democratic Party and
the Republican Party and any member voted in
will be subjected to the rules of their choice of
either the institutionalized Democratic Party or
the Republican Party.  I would vote the Green
Party in an instant if the Green Party had a place
at the table, but currently the Green Party does
not.  A place at the table is what needs to be
rallied for and accepting nothing short of a place
at the table for the American Common Populace
as a class and culture.


Shenonymous, the New Class took over the
Democratic Party,  represent only themselves
and are not going to make room at the table for
the Common Population willingly, because the
Common Population is a 70% Majority Population
and the New Class Nearly Noble Middle Class is
only a 20% minority.  Of course the Republicans
Corporate Elite Capitalists 10% use and abuse,
but have never had room at the table for the
Common Population and in 1980 for greed,
power and prestige, the Democratic Party’s New
Class joined them in kicking the Common Pop to
the kiddy table and 70% of the population have
been systematically sliding down a slippery slope
ever since.

I have always thought it possible to take over
the Democratic Party, and the Dean Movement
could have done it, but President Obama
squashed it with Conservative DLC leadership,
but a Liberal Movement similar the the
Conservative EXTREME Tea Party Movement in
the Democratic Party would be the best bet as
long as there is a liberal President who will not
squash the movement, because the President is
the leader of the Democratic Party, when the
President is a Democrat.

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, February 28, 2011 at 1:04 pm Link to this comment

kulu, February 28 at 8:31 am,

As is no other party, the Green Party is not
legislated equal with the Democratic Party and
the Republican Party, and any member voted in
will be subjected to the rules of their choice of
either the institutionalized Democratic Party or
the Republican Party.

I would vote the Green
Party in an instant if the Green Party had a place
at the table, but currently the Green Party does
not.  A place at the table is what needs to be
rallied for and accepting nothing short of a place
at the table for the American Common Populace
as a class and culture.

***

Shenonymous, the New Class took over the
Democratic Party,  represent only themselves
and are not going to make room at the table for
the Common Population willingly, because the
Common Population is a 70% Majority Population
and the New Class Nearly Noble Middle Class is
only a 20% minority.  Of course the Republicans
Corporate Elite Capitalists 10% use and abuse,
but have never had room at the table for the
Common Population and in 1980 for greed,
power and prestige, the Democratic Party’s New
Class joined them in kicking the Common Pop to
the kiddy table and 70% of the population have
been systematically sliding down a slippery slope
ever since.

I have always thought it possible to take over
the Democratic Party, and the Dean Movement
could have done it, but President Obama
squashed it with Conservative DLC leadership,
but a Liberal Movement similar the the
Conservative EXTREME Tea Party Movement in
the Democratic Party would be the best bet as
long as there is a liberal President who will not
squash the movement, because the President is
the leader of the Democratic Party, when the
President is a Democrat.

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, February 28, 2011 at 7:58 am Link to this comment

Good morning all…let’s hope civility rules the day.

You may be right kulu, as may be a couple of others, and I often
acknowledge that in the posts I make, for which no one gives me
credit, but my way is to work within the political party of my choice. 
Of course it is not an end in itself.  The goal is not just hinder them
but to stop the Republicans from continuing their fierce mission to
reduce the underprivileged to groveling thralls who work only in
the service of making the Corporations and their minion Republicans
even more rich and powerful.

Even though the rhetoric of most of the Democrats in Congress is
frequently a pathetic echo and seconding of the Republican objective
to break the backs of the liberals and to dominate the entire population,
until a third-party shows up that can beat them, I will support
Democratic candidates that show promise of a better life for the
underprivileged.  Why there is not even any medium loud voice
shouting for a third-party!  Only small voices coming from grousing
and hypercritical bloggers! 

I personally have no worries in the least about the quality of my life, all
is not more than adequate, but it is sufficient that I will spend the
duration with enough food, a decent shelter, and fair health care for
which I do have a hefty co-pay for healthcare.  But I do feel that a great
body of Americans do not and they are being horribly exploited.  My tax
dollars that I willingly pay are not being used as I see fit, that being
first step to help the underprivileged in their food, health, home, and
education, then the security of this country and its infrastructure, pretty
much in that order.  Did you know if you pay more taxes than you
should you break the law?  I wonder how many people know that.  I
have never minded having to pay taxes, it takes money to administer a
country that cares about its people.  But I want my dollars to do exactly
that, not one dollar to support the rich and corporate class. 

The Republicans’ sole, single-minded, consuming and united scheme,
their only objective is to disenfranchise and deprive those who they
have exploited for decades to enrich themselves so that they can
continue their abominable and despicable purposes.  I say it loud and
clear that my sole intention is to stop them.

If you believe you can stop the Republicans through means other than
mine, I encourage you and would eulogize your efforts. I have said as
much repeatedly, and that also for which no one acknowledges.  So be
it. 

I am being candid and without guile about my resolve.  Wish me as
much success as much as I do you.

Report this
kulu's avatar

By kulu, February 28, 2011 at 3:31 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous,

Working within the Democratic party can be useful but it is not an end in itself. There are very few genuinely progressive Democrats in the legislature that are worthy of a vote. If one of those few is not standing in your district, then whether you vote D or R makes next to no difference. Only the rhetoric differs not the direction of their policies. Voting for the Green Party or other progressive independents is the only real choice Americans have if they want to reverse the slippery slope they are now accelerating down.

True 3rd parties don’t have a hope in hell in the short run but this is especially so because voters are putting their faith in a Democrat Party they hope for, not the one they have got.

Report this
ThomasG's avatar

By ThomasG, February 28, 2011 at 12:03 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous, February 28 at 4:21 am,

It is not possible to make an effective argument against
propaganda using the frame of the propaganda that is being
argued against.

To combat propaganda, it is necessary to attack the
propaganda directly as propaganda, show why the propaganda is
a false frame of propaganda and present a NEW FRAME that
provides greater choice than the binary frame of emotional rhetoric
that is being opposed as propaganda.

Arguing against propaganda by way of using the frame of the
propaganda that is being argued against will support the
propaganda that is being argued against; all efforts to denounce
propaganda with the frame of the propaganda being argued
against will be ineffective and ultimately in support of the
propaganda being argued against.

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, February 27, 2011 at 11:42 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, February 28 at 4:21 am,

A person of the Common Population Class and Culture arguing a
propagandistic Middle Class Frame will only help the Middle Class,
not the Working Class who are a part of the Common Population
as a class and culture, that has nothing to do whatsoever with the
Middle Class, the Middle Class separated away from the Working
People in the 1980’s and do not represent the working people at
all, so how on earth could denying reality be of benefit to the
working class who are a part of the common population’s class
and culture.

The Conservative/Moderate DLC, the PPI, the Neoliberals, the Neocons, and the New Democrats represent the Corporate Middle
Class bankers and the like—playing like they represent working
people is only fooling yourself and is the problem.

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, February 27, 2011 at 11:39 pm Link to this comment

MarthaA – I, sigh, am not really arguing with you.  You are fine
combing definitions that will not resonate with the public.  Only
those who can make the hairsplitting distinctions can appreciate
your defining efforts.  The ordinary language is what will grab their
attention because they can understand it.  If you want to get beyond
these blogs, and influence the ordinary American, you will have to
amend your language for their collective ability to parse within the
amplitude they are able to understand.

Much as you dislike it, the common language used in America uses
middle class as the defining economic strata between the rich and the
poor.

I am not worried about my classes ThomasG.  They are of a group that
is keen on learning new terms and precision of definition.  They are not
the target.  The target is the ordinary American who have been
conditioned to understand that middle means those who do not belong
to either the wealthy class or the poor class.  It is a simplification of
social stratification.  It is hard to fathom your and MarthA’s more or
less imperious muttering and overly meticulous precision of words that
would have little reverberation among the population you wish to affect. 
Propaganda works best when the people can quickly grasp the idea
being insidiously slipped into their consciousness.  Do you not know
that?  I suggest you and MarthaA read the psychology of propaganda.

Let us not forget who, or what, needs to be stopped in their tracks: 
The Republicans and the Republican Party from their orchestrated
destruction of the American people.  Call them what you want, it is
quibbling.  They are still those whose economic wherewithal is radically
less than the wealthy in this country.

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, February 27, 2011 at 11:21 pm Link to this comment

MarthaA – I, sigh, am not really arguing with you.  You are fine-
combing definitions that will not resonate with the public. You will
unnecessarily handicap your project.  Only those who can make the
hairsplitting distinctions can appreciate your defining efforts.  The
ordinary language is what will grab public attention because they can
easily understand it.  If you want to get beyond these blogs, and
influence the ordinary American, you will have to amend your
language for their collective ability to parse within the amplitude
they are able to understand.

Much as you dislike it, taking the path of least resistance, the common
language used in America uses middle class as the defining economic
strata between the rich and the poor.

Report this
ThomasG's avatar

By ThomasG, February 27, 2011 at 11:13 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, February 27 at 9:58 pm,

The contrivance of the Middle Class is one of a propagandistic
frame
that is of the Rich and Poor, or Wealth and Poverty
frame of propaganda used by the likes of George Gilder in his book
“Wealth and Poverty.”

As you know, the goal of propaganda is to limit choices down from
infinite diversity all the way down to two choices, and then
winnow down choices even further to one of the two emotional
choices given by the propagandist and framed as the only
reasonable choice by the propagandist.

With regard to the propagandistic contrivance you support that is
the “Middle Class”, the so called Middle Class is nothing more than
the “middle” of the propagandistic frame of Wealth and Poverty
Propaganda. 

As I understand, you are teaching a class in college on Critical
Thinking and critical thinking should be able to analyze
propaganda.  How critical could the thinking be that would allow
you to analyze the elements of “binary emotional rhetoric” that
comprise all propaganda and be able to see past the contrivance
of the “Middle Class” as a choice of the “middle” of a
propagandistic frame?

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, February 27, 2011 at 10:50 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, February 27 at 9:58 pm,

There is NO Poor Class and Common is NOT Middle.

Middle Class does not include working
people, according to my World Book dictionary:

middle class, the people between the aristocracy or the
very wealthy and the working class.  In Great Britain, it includes
the class socially and conventionally between the aristocratic class
and the laboring class, such as professional men, bankers, owners
of relatively large businesses, and small gentry;bourgeois.

gen·try (jntr)
n. pl. gen·tries
1. People of gentle birth, good breeding, or high social position.
2. a. An upper or ruling class.  b. The class of English landowners
ranking just below the nobility.

The Middle Class are the Nearly Nobles, and the
Nearly Nobles in the United States have declared
their Middle Class separate from
the working people in the United States.  The
Middle Class does not include working people, it’s
the Professional Class.  Working people are of
the Common Population’s Class and Culture,
which includes everybody that isn’t Noble or
Nearly Noble. 

The Middle Class Nearly Nobles have separated
from the Common Population in the United
States, the problem is lack of representation for
the Common Population as a class and culture. 
The Middle Class before the 1980’s was a part of
the Common Population and represented the
Common Population, but they divided out and
began representing only themselves as a class
and culture causing the problem, which is
irreversible and the Common Population now has
to have a seat at the political table in the making and
enforcing of legislated law and order EQUALLY for
the Majority Common Population as a class and
culture with the Middle Class and Culture and the
American Aristocracy’s Class and Culture.

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, February 27, 2011 at 10:24 pm Link to this comment

So Walker will kick out the protesters his excuse to clean the Capitol
Building!  That is a Gaddafi tactic.  Will Walker also have the state
troopers turn their guns on the protestors.  I think the protesters
ought to hold hands and defy the troopers from ejecting them from
the building!

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, February 27, 2011 at 8:32 pm Link to this comment

It is really sad that poor ardee still has his head under the bucket of
crap that he cannot but keep burbling about the ShrewShepotamus. 
You are obviously stuck.  Can you ever say anything about your own
position ardee or are you only able to bounce ugly attacks against me
just to keep getting notices from TD?  Poor thing.  I do feel sorry for
you and I didn’t think I ever could.  Guess the Shrew has a heart after
all.  I affect you that much?  Yeowie Kazowie!

Report this

By ardee, February 27, 2011 at 8:11 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, February 27 at 3:28 pm

I just love it when you go over the edge like this, revealing why it is I critique your posts.

You certainly did revile Assange, calling him several demeaning names in fact, as you did those who see him in a different light. I am certain I am not alone in remembering those particular posts, though you claim to have “forgotten” it, to no avail I think. You even based both your low opinion of him, and gave him motives and tendencies of your own invention, on his appearance on Sixty Minutes. Oh how quickly we forget, or become embarrassed and evasive.

I believe that you still hold the record for most insults , in a post of several months earlier in which you insulted ten people in twelve paragraphs. Someone should have called Guinness.

As to my intellect, well, I am not at all affected by your little menopausal rant nor am I laying any claim to either a unique viewpoint or a high IQ. I get by and do just fine, thank you for wondering. Please, Shrew, take your meds. Your posts like these embarrass only yourself and really deal with nothing of consequence excepting that they reveal the insecure little girl beneath the aging woman.

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, February 27, 2011 at 8:04 pm Link to this comment

Speaking of Luddites, the Daly Kos has a article which is touting the Wisconsin Union Breaking as a class war. Personally I believe this premise a bit simplistic. What say you? Maybe this may be what She is talking about, a few knotches above the TD patter?

Link: 
http://www.dailykos.com/

Sun Feb 27, 2011 at 02:00 PM PST
Wisconsin is the front line in right-wing class warfare

I will reread the Kos article when I get time, if anyone wants to comment on it in the mean time?

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RenZo's avatar

By RenZo, February 27, 2011 at 6:59 pm Link to this comment

@ shenonymous

I was not accusing you or anyone of calling me a Luddite. I was following my own comments that we ‘should’ avoid tv and radio and that we have become too greedy because of advertising.
Second, if “we” had the billionaire backers that the Repubs have we could use the advertising industry to full extent - to convince the population to turn off their tvs and radios. Wait… that might not work in the long run…..

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Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, February 27, 2011 at 4:58 pm Link to this comment

Your concision is to be applauded, RenZo.  I apologized for having
missed your ostensibly loud voice, and quite possibly I did miss the
more timid.  That, however testifies that they did not shout it loud
enough!  How effective do you think your voice has been?  I cannot
gauge my own until I see that those I prod to action and donate
towards their effort shows some results.  I all reality, I do not expect
any more from your efforts than mine.  I do not, inspite of the
accusation, put myself higher than anyone else who is exerting effort to
defeat the Republicans.  We each have our own style.  Because I have a
life outside of Truthdig, and limit my participation on the blogs, I do
not see the myriad of shoutings as much as you do.  I am glad to
hear of them and I hope they sustain it until WE are victorious. 

I never implied you were a Luddite!  Though I would suggest some of
the Democrats in Congress are!  Reading your post of 9:00pm, you
show some excellent advice and some advertising campaign, ironically,
will be required for efficacy.  I agree that more action against
conservative aggression instead of arguing with each other will more
likely cause change in American society. 

Using a euphimism, MarthaA, such as Common in lieu of the more
recognizable Middle is in my opinion a useless contrivance.  But it is
your way, and your way is inimitably your way.  As I already mentioned,
we each have our own styles.  If you want to get into the minds of, say
the Common majority, I have learned one must assimilate and use the
target group’s own language while insidiously slipping in what is
thought to be more accurately descriptive.  Surely you know about the
virtues of assimilation?  Maybe not.

Just keep in mind who and what is the target.  Stopping Republicans
and the Republican Party from destroying the American economical
middle and poor class.

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By MarthaA, February 27, 2011 at 4:32 pm Link to this comment

As long as the 70% Majority Common Population accept the Right-Wing frame of division of their class and culture into individuals of the Poor Class and individuals of an Upper and Lower Middle Class, they are dividing their class and culture out of the power of being a class and culture, because only as a united and represented class and culture that they must become,  will the 70% Majority Common Population, the American Populace be able to achieve political representation in the making and enforcing of legislated law and order equal with the American Middle Class Toadys and the American Corporate Aristocracy.

Middle Class is a Right-Wing propaganda frame and even
though it has been in use in the United States for a long time,
it is nevertheless a propaganda frame of the Common Population to remove the power of their class and culture.

Propaganda being Rich and Poor, a binary choice emotional rhetoric frame to keep people choosing the Middle in a Rich or Poor Frame, they are unable to choose Rich and Lord knows they can’t allow themselves to be thought of as Poor, so Middle is emotionally chosen like herding cattle, they line to the middle. 

People will choose the Middle or Rich, instead of being Poor.  No one wants to be Poor, they would like to be Rich, so they choose a nebulous Middle, amass debt, throw
away their class and culture and delete their political
power of representation at the table as adults in the
making and enforcing of legislated law and order equally for their class and culture.  It’s a Rich-Poor Propaganda Frame.

The Common Population is a 70% Majority Common
Population Class and Culture, but through the Right
framing a division of the Common Population as the
Poor Class and a couple more divisions of the Common Population as the Middle Class, the upper and lower, very few of the common population get any benefit because benefit
only goes to the Rich or the Poor, leaving the Middle to fend for themselves.  Rich and Poor is a Propaganda Frame to get
the population to choose the Middle, and the ones getting majority benefit is the Rich, because class and culture is
totally framed out of existence and accepted, even though
the whole 70% Majority Common Population, the American Populace is a class and culture.  The Middle is not a class or a culture and neither is the Poor a class or a culture,
with the exception of the toadys that divided out of the
Common Population and declared themselves a Middle Class of toadys to the Right represented by the conservative DLC, the PPI, the 3rd Way, the Neoliberals, Neocons and the New Democrats and assisted by the Conservative Media always allowing them to promote their conservative agenda.

It is time the 70% Majority Common Population realize
they are a Class and Culture and unite, instead of allowing
themselves to be separated into individuals where no
one has the benefit of Class and Culture for legislation in the making and enforcing of legislated law and order, and the rich make legislation for their benefit; the middle of the common population get nothing and the poor of the common population get little. The middle section of the Common Population needs to pull their heads out of their arses and quit accepting being the middle, realize being Middle Class is a dupe, that the only Middle Class are the New Class toadys of the Right.

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By RenZo, February 27, 2011 at 4:04 pm Link to this comment

@ Leefeller
It was Giovanni Gentile’s philosophy and economic theories which birthed the Italian Fascisti. Mussolini was his “disciple”. There are many similarities with today’s situation. No one wants to listen. Or learn. Pity.

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By RenZo, February 27, 2011 at 4:00 pm Link to this comment

@ shenonymous
“MarthaA and ThomaG are the only other ones giving the
Republicans the credit for succeeding in methodically
destroying the economical middle and poor class.”

Untrue, and if you missed my (ostentatious) LOUD voice, you might miss others more timid. I don’t write as much as you do, hoping rather to be concise, and effective.
I have repeatedly and everywhere, consistently pointed out that the dysfunctionality of American politics: specifically that the poor and (ex)-middle classes vote as much as they do for Republicons BECAUSE of other factors. We need to analyze these other factors and start remedying them. It will take years to do, but then this situation has been developing for forty years already.
One large contributing factor is American advertising (which depends on our watching and listening to have it effects) which inculcates GREED as a basic human drive. We become as greedy as the rich, wanting more more more. This could be fixed partially by turning off the tvs and right wing radio, and living with our families and communities. I am not a Luddite, in spite of this assertion.
There are endless other points of analysis that would yield actionable means of starting to change, but we argue with conservatives instead of starting to change. “Be the change you want in the world”.

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By Shenonymous, February 27, 2011 at 2:45 pm Link to this comment

Yes, Leefeller, I guess you do in your inimitable way criticize
Republicans, but you do not express the need to defeat them very
loudly.  I shout it!  Repeatedly While GRYM and rico are obvious in
their conservative views, and in fact I do not always disagree
vehemently with them on very specific issues, not important right
now to list them, as they are few and far between, I believe there
are shills on the TD websites who surreptitiously (meaning stealthily)
pretend to be critics of Democrats through the sub-rosa of third-
partyism.  Or taking the precious time that could be spent criticizing
Republicans on the likes of centrist liberal me who never fails to ridicule
and remind who is the real enemy of the people.  If you are going to
really criticize Republicans you would start listing their infractions and
criminal attack on the American economical middle and poor class. 
Show how and when they do. I think you do this to some mild degree
but with your talent you ought to be more ostentatious (meaning loud).

For instance, take the Wisconsin effort through the pathetic puppet of
Walker trying to break the back and spirit of unionists.  The effort of
the conservative politicians in Minnesota to thwart the Democratic
governor to tax the upper echelons of the wealth class there to stave
off the states economic crisis.  What the bastards in Wahsington are
doing to the President, what the miscreant Republicans in Washington
are trying to do to health care reform, what the asshole Republicans are
doing to provide protection to the medical industry, yada yada yada and
etc etc etc.

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By Leefeller, February 27, 2011 at 2:24 pm Link to this comment

Must say I have criticized the Republicans on occasion, a while back as insult Martha even called me one.

In fact I enjoy criticizing the Republicans, I find it very easy, just like taking a pork barrel from a Republican. If a person is in a room and just happens to have common sense, he would be like a cat in a room full of rocking chairs.  I find Republicans are like a never ending manure pile.

As to which other posters may be Republicans or closet Republicans, even foot tapping Republicans,  I do not know, except off the bottom of my head I would nominate Rico and GRYM?

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By Shenonymous, February 27, 2011 at 2:11 pm Link to this comment

You are certainly brave but taking your life on TD in your own
hands, Leefeller, agreeing with me on ”anything” (out of respect
for you, see I’ve included quotes with my italics).  Expect to be
crucified!  (I am back to using exclamation points!) 

I am not disagreeing that the Democratic Party does not need a swift
kick in the ass as they are definitely imprudent in their retreat from
courage.  Is there anywhere where I have not said that or at the
least implied it?  Agreed, and that is quite insightful, the Democrats
could end up like TeaBaggers in toning their attacks against the
corporate power structure to protect their continuation to exploit the
American people, as most of the asskissing-corporations Democrats in
Washington are doing, not just seeming to be doing!  Those of you
who are continuing to insinuate that I do not see that nor deride and
excoriate the Democrats are simply choosing to turn a blind eye to
bolster their own status with the “ultra-left” who dominate the TD
forums.  The Mussolini syndrome is a case of egomania which most
politicians are heir to.  Do re-read your True Believer.

I am beginning to hear it repeated on the various editorial news
programs that this country needs alternatives to the two major
political parties but that it could be done if the real Democrats got
off their asses and had the audacity to fearlessly tread the waters of
actually representing the people. (Well they do not use the word ass
but they say it in euphemistic terms.)  They are also saying the public
is showing signs leading to towards that action.

So far MarthaA and ThomaG are the only other ones giving the
Republicans the credit for succeeding in methodically destroying the
economical middle and poor class.  All others are stuck in their
criticism of everything but the Republicans.  That ought to send up
urgent and terribly consequential alerts to any real liberal progressives! 
Those who really care about the American public.  The MA and TG
approach is to repeat their litany which is not really a bad strategy to
condition those who do not think on their own to begin to fathom the
real problem.  Yes they do encourage a third party development.  In my
own way, I also do; but my third partyism is to refurbish and transform
the Democratic Party from within back to its original reason to exist.

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By ThomasG, February 27, 2011 at 1:34 pm Link to this comment

Wisconsin’s Scott Walker this morning on ‘Meet
the Press’ was promoting and justifying
selective “collective benefit”.

Scott Walker is advocating selective
“collective benefit”
for the American
Populace and collective “collective
benefit”
for the American Aristocracy
and their toadies within the American Middle
Class; this is Socialism for Us “maybe not
You”
, as Heath Ledger said in ‘A Knight’s
Tale’.

Scott Walker is advocating for a frame that is a
false view of advantage for everyone except
the American Aristocracy and the toadies of the
American Middle Class.

The American Populace is a 70% Majority
Population of the United States
and have
the numbers to force real advantage for the
American Populace with regard to the making
and enforcing of legislated law and order.

Hopefully, the American Populace will not accept
Scott Walker and the Conservative Right-Wing
Republican frame of a false view of advantage as
a legitimate advantage, because it is no more
than self serving advantage for the Right at
the expense of the Left.

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By Leefeller, February 27, 2011 at 11:06 am Link to this comment

Actually I understand Shes support of the Democratic party for the Republicans and Tea Baggers are manipulated by the Murdocs and Koch brothers of this world and their agendas seem to want every man, women and child in the world become serfs.  Unfortunately I see the Democrats having to be some what careful in their attacks on corporations for they could end up like the Green Party.

It may be prudent for people to research Mussolini and his history which lead him to support the Fascist state.  (which I feel may be happening here).  My history is probably on par with George Bushes; who was a history major; which means I know squat.

So I will do some Mussolini digging, to see if my theory has any merit. I can only hope people like Waker come to the same end.

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By Shenonymous, February 27, 2011 at 10:28 am Link to this comment

Good morning all.
In a calm and deliberate manner, I respond… and without one
exclamation mark.

First of all ardee, you are notorious for incorrectly reporting what
other people said, especially those with whom you deliriously
disagree.  Uh, me for instance.  Second of all I did not say you hated
my guts.  You amplify reality just to distort what is said to make you
look saintly.  How pious of you ardee.  My comments always indicate
my one and only intention is to defeat the Republicans so thank you
for giving me the opportunity to say it once again. 

Why you lie can only be a pathology.  I did not attack Julian Assange.  I
ridiculed idiots who have created a religion about Wikileaks.  If the shoe
fits, then bow five times in the direction of the HolyBook WIkileaks!  We
can all see how illiterate you are since you always report incorrectly
what has been said.  Provide quotes where I have attacked Julian
Assange. You cannot.  But I would appreciate it if you did provide my
quotes. date, time, and forum, because it is proof that you lie.  I have
called him what the disciples of Wikileaks have made of him, The
Wizard JA.  Again you do not read since I have stated he is innocent
until proven guilty and has not even been charged yet.  Why do you lie,
ardee.  Is it a sickness?  Yes, I think so.  But thank you for giving me a
reason to say it all again.

My moral high ground is only above the Republicans whose sole
intention is to decimate the American economically middle and poor
class.  Are you one of their shills on Truthdig?  Is that why you cannot
refrain from attacking me?  Yes, I do think so.  Prove that you are not. 
Agree that the Republican agenda is the number one problem in this
country.

If you only detest my methods, why do you call me the most vilest of
names?  You attack me personally not my methods of political
opposition. It would be like I called you an asshole instead of what you
think are asshole thoughts.  Now I did not call you an asshole, nor even
called your thoughts asshole thoughts.  The sting of the truth in what I
say really hurts doesn’t it?  Your defense mechanisms are in full
overdrive:  You project me as animalistic with your names Shrew,
Shepotamus, which I now wear as badges of honor.  You identify with
Assange and the WIkileak religion in reaction to your own weakness or
having a troubled life, becoming fanatical against another, me, as one
would become devoted to comic book heroes.

If you want to know what a centrist liberal is, just google asking what it
is.  Your search page will show 1,010,000 results in 18 seconds.  Good
grief ardee you act so stupid.  Now I did not say you were stupid, I
only said you acted stupid.

You seem to think you are the only one who spent time in grass roots
movements?  You prevaricate (lie) about their effectiveness.  That is
because of your inherent ignorance.  You don’t seem to understand
how grass roots movements work.  They don’t necessarily work large at
a national level until a larger movement gets started (try reading
Hoffer’s True Believer on the nature of movements and not try to just
have bowel movements through your computer keyboard.  If any one is
sick, it is you.  Grass roots movements start at the bottom with local
elections, then elections for state office and elections of national office. 
But effective action of grass roots movements begins with electing
local politicians and passing initiatives.  That is the only place real
direct democracy takes place.  The rest is representative democracy. 
Gee ardee why don’t you take a course or two in political science?

I will repeat, it is the Republicans who are the enemy of the economical
middle and poor class in America.  You need to get busy concentrating
on that instead of showing deranged focus on me, ardee.

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By ardee, February 27, 2011 at 9:28 am Link to this comment

The Green Party is not an American Party, but an English Party and doesn’t seem to have any fire in the belly for representation of the
Common Populace in the United States.

Martha, Martha, Martha, This is a puzzlingly inaccurate statement and I must wonder why you would make such when the truth is obvious and otherwise:

The History of The Green Party
 
Origins

In May 1972 a meeting at Victoria University, Wellington, launched the Values Party, the world’s first national Green party.

The party contested the 1972 general election, with radical new policies such as zero economic growth and zero population growth and promoted reform of laws covering abortion, drugs and homosexuality.

These policies formed the world’s first Green election manifesto ‘Blueprint for New Zealand - An Alternative Future’.

Over the next three years Green policies were further debated, developed and expanded to create ‘Beyond Tomorrow’, the 1975 Values Party manifesto. This comprehensive statement of Green politics was widely distributed overseas and contributed to the development of Green parties elsewhere.

*****************edit************

It was difficult inventing Green politics before the term ‘Green’ was even coined (which came in 1980 when the German Greens contested their first national level election). But Green politics saw successes in New Zealand during that time, as many Values Party members came from or were heavily involved in ‘movement’ politics - particularly the peace movement, the women’s movement, and the environment movement.


MarthaA, February 27 at 2:56 am Link to this comment

The only reason I will remain a Democrat is for the purpose of removing Conservatives/Moderates from the Democratic Party in the Primary Elections, which I can not do as an Independent.

I speak to you as one who spent years in grassroots Democratic organizations. It is impossible to effect change or affect decisions which are all made at the national level and trickle down as requests for money and silence to the neighborhood groups.

The Democrats are frauds, sorry to say as it really would be nice if they were otherwise. That they sometimes speak to issues which we both hold dear is simply more trickery as they remain inactive in addressing that which they speak to with such flowery language and basic impotency.

If you are sincere about reforming the Democratic Party I honestly believe that huge losses in registration and donations might very well be the only way to achieve that change.

Shenonymous

I do not know you personally, so your statement that I hate your guts is inaccurate. What I detest is your rigid centrism while professing liberal leanings, your incessant oratory that voting Democratic is the ONLY way to progress when the recent history of that party suggests rather strenuously that such strategy is regressive. I do note that this thread shows a bit of leeway from you towards advocacy of third party formations. But that is not your general trending, not at all.

Further, as one prone to ridiculous and raving posts castigating folks you do not know, and do not take the time to understand, as in the recent attacks on Julian Assange, Wikileaks and those who dare hope that he and it represent a positive force for change, you have no moral high ground to mention my own tirades in response. Nor should you err in thinking that my rudeness in response to your own signifies a personal dislike for you, only that I detest your methods.

Should you ever decide to post with an even tempered and calm demeanor I think you might find that most will respond in kind. I am not one to turn the other cheek frankly, though I will always return polite debate in kind. I understand that we each have a right to follow our own conscience, even when your preaching loyalty to democratic candidates includes despicable commentary about those who do not.

By the by, what the hell is a “centrist liberal”?

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By Shenonymous, February 27, 2011 at 1:37 am Link to this comment

Then it is the minority of Democrats who are not in bed with the
Republicans and who do not cooperate to benefit the elites of this
culture that can be counted on.

The grail is to defeat the Republicans in their effort to decimate the
economic middle and poor people of this country.  That will be the
reward.  If there is a need to create a new party, then get with it! 
Stop just talking about it!  Do it!  Even if you are right MarthaA, I’ll
keep going on my project.  The Democrat organizations that regularly
dun me for money knows exactly how I feel and they do not get one
cent.  My investment in political action goes to grass roots who are
showing backbone and will elect those who will represent them not
the Corporate mainliners.

kulu, you show unusual insight about the Koch’s.  Money might
mean power but it doesn’t always mean smart.  They slipped up.
As governor Walker’s days are numbered.

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By kulu, February 27, 2011 at 12:38 am Link to this comment

What surprised me most about the events in Wisconsin is that the Democrats to the man are standing up for the people there. If this were only the norm and not the rare exception then America might stand a chance. But as Obama and others have repeatedly shown they are not for the people at all but for the corporations.

The Kochs made a tactical error in not balancing their funding of Scott Walker with the funding of one or two selected Democrat senators.

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By MarthaA, February 26, 2011 at 9:56 pm Link to this comment

The only reason I will remain a Democrat is for the purpose of removing Conservatives/Moderates from the Democratic Party in the Primary Elections, which I can not do as an Independent.

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By MarthaA, February 26, 2011 at 9:42 pm Link to this comment

And why doesn’t the Democrats tell these truths, because they
know the truth just as much as Robert Reich, the reason is because
the majority of the Democrats are in bed with the Republicans
cooperating to the fullest extent for the benefit of their own class
and culture, the 20% New Class, the New Democrats, as a
Duopoly Ruling Party with a greater and lesser aristocracy ruling
over the rest of the population, which is the 70% Majority Common
Population that no longer have representation and will only get
representation if they rally for representation of their Majority
Common Population as a class and culture and withdraw from
being represented as children in the Democratic Party and the
Republican Party, as Martin Luther King, Jr. did for the blacks.

The Green Party is not an American Party, but an English Party and
doesn’t seem to have any fire in the belly for representation of the
Common Populace in the United States.  No, there must be a NEW
American Party with American Common Populace leadership with
Martin Luther King, Jr. fire in the belly for political representation of
the Majority Common Population as a class and culture that is not
being represented as a class and culture.  A new political party
that understands that upper and lower Middle Class and Poor
Class are propaganda tools that divides the Common Population
as a class and culture into sniveling separate individuals without
class, culture or power, but when undivided as the Majority
Common Populace will have Majority class, culture and power as
the 70% Majority American Common Populace.  When divided each
division is a minority as childlike individuals without the ability to
come together,  but undivided as adults accepting responsibility
for their class and culture is a Majority without equal between the
other two classes and cultures and their demands will be met
because the class and culture has found their class and cultural
voting power of majority.  Even the Roman Caesars were afraid of
the populace.

People of the populace will have to get out on the street and force
representation of their class and culture,  it is done in other
countries, it can be done in the United States, Wisconsin is a good
example.

Shenonymous, I worked on the Kicking Ass Blog of the Democratic
Party for years until I was kicked off for being liberal and kicked off
the Democracy For America Blog as well, as liberal talk on both is
gotten rid of almost immediately and nothing really liberal is
allowed to stay—only a New Democrat cooperating conservative
agenda against the Republicans is allowed to stay and I can not
see that as being of benefit to the 70% Majority Common
Population that are being used and abused. I was hoping
President Obama would represent the liberal 70% Majority
Common Population base, but he is mostly into treating the 70%
Majority Common Population as children and representing his New
Democrat conservative class and culture.  I wish you luck, but just
know, liberals aren’t welcome, but I will remain a Democrat until
there is a new politically EQUAL legislated political party for the
Common Population as a Class and Culture.

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By truedigger3, February 26, 2011 at 8:47 pm Link to this comment

Re: By RenZo, February 27 at 1:01 am Link to this comment


Renzo wrote:
“Reich is smart. But Obama will not start preaching because he is triangulating to get re-elected.”
————————————————————————-

Obama will not start preaching the truth or do anything. He is in complete collusion with the Repbublicans serving the Finance/Corporate elite.
All what Obama will do, is giving speeches, promises and engaging in make belief theatrics and bullshitting, then he will turn around and do exactly the opposite of what he promised will do and blame it on the Republicans and blue dog Democrats.
It has been more than two years since Obama took office and the pattern and his actions are obviously clear.

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By RenZo, February 26, 2011 at 8:01 pm Link to this comment

@ Leefeller, February 27 at 12:06 am
Excellent article by Reich. He explains it well and precisely.

But even if the Unions are not the overall problem right now or ever, losing the last few workers organizations would be a big loss of seed power for new unions. And too, there is no way to simply reverse the taxation scheme we live with. It would require a new House (far fewer noble wannabees) to change the taxation schedules.

I am afraid we have to start a long range plan, as the neo-liberal-conservatives (Endtimers, PNACkers & paleo T-baggers) did back in the seventies and eighties when they started infiltrating Boards of Education, which changed the education system, which has allowed Murdoch to succeed at propagandizing with his media monopoly, which has numbed and stupefied the lower classes (poor like me, but not educated as I am to see through this), which has changed civic duty into something cheap, like soap opera morality…...cheap and useless.

Reich is smart. But Obama will not start preaching because he is triangulating to get re-elected.

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By RenZo, February 26, 2011 at 7:13 pm Link to this comment

Remember the joke about Churchill asking another dinner guest (while he was drunk) if she would sleep with him for a million sterling. “Yes”, she said. Then he asked if she would do it for ten sterling and she was insulted - “what do you think I am?” she asked. “Madame” he said, we already know what you are, we are just haggling over your price now.” In politics we should already know what they are, you just have to haggle over the price.

The Dems could be bought back to represent us, but who has the money? The unions sure don’t. Elections now are won by contibuting money, the subsequent voting is almost superfluous. Until this problem is solved, nothing is changing except the level of discord, the unrest, the suffering and perhaps the violence.

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By Leefeller, February 26, 2011 at 7:06 pm Link to this comment

The Unions are not the problem, timing is perfect fro them to be the target right now, as usual politicians and their sponsors want everyone to take their eyes off the real target.

The following link, provides a different view than the Republicans. Wall Street is mentioned.

http://robertreich.org/post/3476451774

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By Shenonymous, February 26, 2011 at 4:25 pm Link to this comment

I’m just asking you to stop and think for a moment, and to think
for yourself, not merely run with the herd.

christian96 proposed an action that could actually affect the
corporate power structure.  Why am I the only one responding to
it?  You all know I am a centrist liberal whose only goal politically
is to defeat Republicans.  I’ve said it enough times.  Perhaps
remediating the political parties is important, but to me it pales in
the face of the Republican/Corporate power structure.  I can see why
Democrats get in bed with the wealthy.  They are stonewalled and
impeded to effect legislation that would benefit the economically
middle and poorer classes.  They glacially make some progress but not
much and only superficially.  The continuous whining about Democrats
is justified but it is also distracting if only whining is on the docket! 
Much as christian96 says he cannot do more than make observational
suggestions, and is capable only of thinking, (no remarks here please
because he has suggested a doable action!) . 

Now with a population of 310 million people growing all the time, like a
birth every 7 seconds, and one death every 11 seconds.  Clearly birth
has the edge.  That also means more ignorant people are in the pool of
voters.  Do you seriously think you can significantly change the voting
pattern with a new party?  I mean it, come on now, start thinking
rationally. Yes, the ideal for liberals would be for a whole new party
attitude to take over the country.  And maybe this is the propitious time
to get a more responsive party in its inception!  Get with it folks!  Start
your engines!  But this country will go farther down the tubes as the
Republicans pushes it into that self-serving black hole.  Are you really
going to let that happen?  Are you really going to facilitate them
devouring the middle income an poor peole of this country? 

Now for the comparison with Ireland:  Ireland has a population of 4.1
million in its Republic, the southern part and 1.4 million in Northern
Ireland.  The USA has 70 times as many people to cater to than
Southern Ireland. 300 times as Northern Ireland.  According to an article
in the Irish Times, Irish political analyst Kenneth Benoit speculated that
if an underlying problem is a dysfunctional political culture, then
changing the rules wouldn’t automatically solve the problem.  He points
out this is what the Italians discovered to their disappointment.” 

This should be kept in mind when we examine our political culture, and
how it has changed over the years, before we prescribe too many
untried remedies that may well be ineffective.

You will have to agree that a political culture is the result of the efforts
of both the politicians and the people who they represent.  The
electorate as well as the elected.  Most criticisms are leveled at the
politicians and the political parties without thinking about the standards
and either inclinations or perspective of the voters.  Here is the crux of
the argument.  It is the voters and the parties who can win support that
is a fairly good indication of the current political culture in any
definable constituency or region.

What does this mean?  It means that a provincial politician with an
undiluted plan for his/her district will win the election with the greatest
of ease every single time and the theory goes on, that sends a message
to every other candidate about what exactly would be required and
what is not. 

A result of free voter electoral systems, democracies, is that provincial
biases and the idiosyncratic demands of the province or district will be
reflected not any national interest.

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By Shenonymous, February 26, 2011 at 4:23 pm Link to this comment

Irish Central’s John Spain wrote just a couple of weeks ago that
Irish political parties make promises they cannot afford to keep. 
What is different there than anywhere else in the world?  As he
notes, Ireland is on “financial life support” from the IMP and the
European Union.  Yet their politicians are making insane promises
such as giving special financial assistance to mortgage holders
and to reduce an extra tax on lower-paid workers.  Prima facie,
on the face of it, that looks swell. 

Very much the same dynamic is at work in our country.  What people-
oriented politician would not want to help those with a negative equity,
those who have no job or have had to take a pay cut?  Even if they
deceive their support because of gaining votes.
  You know, all of us
saps who have been affected by the cutbacks in state spending, the rise
in our taxes but not on the wealthiest!? 

The Republicans do not want to address the fact that their money-
backer pharmaceuticals and health care providers has immeasurably
raised their rates and prices.  They aren’t hurting are they?!  The
proposed cutbacks in state spending is unquestionably going to hurt
millions of Americans.  Not because of the increase in Medicare and the
Health Care Reform, but because the medical providers have raised their
rates and cost of medicines.  That fact must not get lost midst the
Republican rhetoric. Mortgage rates will go up it is a given fact.  The
Republicans are putting those who make under that 10% dividing line
on the torture racks.  Pulling out our fingernails and making us eat
them!  You know, that 70% majority MarthaA keeps hammering about
(whatever is the real number that one will do as a concrete reference). 

CNN just noted at about 3 pm ESDT the disparity between the 10%
wealthy and the 90% under the line is getting worse and worse (Big
news to CNN!).  That figure should be ratatatted ratatatted constantly
and consistently to the public so that the truth heard over and over and
over is finally believed!  Replace the lies with the truth and you will have
done the exploited a huge benefit! 

So who is to tell the truth?  How will the truth be disseminated?  Be
passed around, permeate the political culture if the paid politicians
don’t do it?  The peculiarity of blogsites, even political ones, really do
not spread through the culture properly. The issues discussed on those
avenues are much too transitory.  They are fireflashes and may get their
participant empowering electorate’s bile up but then it is on to the next
glitzy talk item.  This transitoriness does not do a movement any
favors!  It has to be done though!  Groups must be formed like Russ
Feingold and now Sherrod Brown are doing to get Democrats off their
assses and do something for their country.  Do that sticking together
that ardee so passionately speak of even if ardee hates me up the
wazoo! 

It is my dogmatic belief that the only way to defeat the Republican who
is the real enemy of the people to work through a medium that is likely
to develop a desirable end result.  I see that as changing the
Democratic Party insidiously from the inside out.  As I said, go ahead
third-partiers.  Create a new party.  One that has life, please!  And as
long as you are liberal minded I will even give you support, but in the
meantime I will be stringently working within the bastion of the
Democratic Party to get it on its proper track of being the party of the
people.

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By Leefeller, February 26, 2011 at 1:44 pm Link to this comment

In Ireland they just dumped their entrenched old political party for a change. It seems the old guard in Ireland acted just like the Democrats and Republicans have here and sold their country down the river. Actually Ireland did it without going to war?

It seems time for a new political peoples party, instead of the old follow the money song and dance routine.

Geez! Was it Mark Twain who said; “we have the best government money can buy”?  This seems to fit, my political purchasing power, I never get what I want.

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By christian96, February 26, 2011 at 1:43 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous—-I am more of a thinking person than
someone who actually does the nuts and bolts kind
of work in discovering facts.  Take the Civil War
for example.  It would appear to me you would want
to list the types of weapons used by union and
confederate troops.  From there I’m not sure how
you would determine who made the weapons and how
much money they made selling them.  I’m sure there
are people who have the talent to discover those
facts but I’m not one of them.

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By ardee, February 26, 2011 at 10:42 am Link to this comment

MarthaA, February 26 at 2:15 am

I applaud vehemently your conversion to advocacy for third party politics. It is a wonderful thing to see when someone can change her opinions and “come into the light”. Thank you.

On the converse side I will acknowledge and applaud Wisconsin’s elected Democrats for a courageous, if ultimately futile, battle against the money and power of the Koch Brothers and the collusion of a self serving and slavish Republican Governor and legislature.

Imagine, if you will, a Democratic Party in which the national organization, led by its nominal head, President Obama, rose as one, spoke with one voice, and worked to expose the far rights efforts to murder our democracy.

This ,of course, will never happen, if only because Democrats are as addicted to money as are their counterparts. Third Party politics, in the form of the Green Party if only as they pledge to avoid corporate funding, seems the solution to the silence of the lambs we now hear and have come to expect for left wing politics. Even common sense politics is absent from the national stage, and especially from the Democrats. Obama speaks with much eloquence and acts with nothing of the sort.

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By Shenonymous, February 26, 2011 at 9:42 am Link to this comment

christian96!  That is a fantastic idea!  How shall we proceed?  It
must be organized and at least ten thousand of “our” folks involved!
I work too much to be anything but a signature or caller.  Maybe a
60 Minutes’ or Lawrence O’Donnell or Rachel Maddow investigative
report?  Hit the printed media too!  MarthaA and et al and so is me
are always talking about ejumacting the public! 

Saying that Obama is being cuckolded by the corporations in its
fascist attitude is a figure of speech, MarthaA. It is an overused word
and hardly listened to these days, you know, like nazi has become a
popular adjective.  You might be right but specific examples of it would
certainly bolster your argument and incite the imagination.

I think dwelling on the faults of the errant liberals and Dumdum
Demmacrats is a distraction from the real problem.  Organize your third
parties if you feel you must! And I wish you well, might even contribute
to your efforts.  But the eyes must be kept on the prize: reducing the
Republicans to a squeak or silenced completely!

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By christian96, February 26, 2011 at 9:29 am Link to this comment

I think the media community should put pressure on
ABC, CBS, NBC, and FOX to air a series depicting the
corporations and individuals who have benefited
financially from wars beginning with the Civil(not
so civil)War to the present.  Let’s use the media
to educate the masses instead of entertaining them.

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By MarthaA, February 26, 2011 at 3:28 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous, February 26 at 7:26 am,

I didn’t say President Obama is controlling for benefit, President
Obama is only being a cuckold for the corporations that control for
benefit, which is what fascism is.

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By MarthaA, February 26, 2011 at 3:24 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous, February 26 at 7:26 am,

I didn’t say President Obama is controlling for benefit, President Obama is only being a cuckold for the corporations that control for benefit, which is what fascism is.

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By Shenonymous, February 26, 2011 at 2:26 am Link to this comment

In this day and age, the military, you can’t live with them and you
can’t live without them.  Do you really think Obama is privately
benefitting from the Corporate Megalith?  Now I recall from the
news reports Bush and company did benefit significantly from the
Military Industrial Monopoly Complex and still are. That was one of
the lucrative reasons for going to war in the Middle East. But I have
not seen anyone anywhere accuse with evidence that Obama has his
hand in any till anywhere.  Not even Reich has said that.

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By MarthaA, February 26, 2011 at 2:05 am Link to this comment

christian96, February 26 at 6:06 am,

“Who controls the military?”

The Congress and the President.  The problem for
the country is that Corporations are controlling
both the Congress and the President for private
benefit at the expense of public benefit.

Here is some Republican Shakedown truth from
Robert Reich:
http://www.readersupportednews.org/opinion2/274-41/5071-the-republican-shakedown

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By MarthaA, February 26, 2011 at 1:58 am Link to this comment

christian96, February 26 at 6:06 am,

“Who controls the military?”

The Congress and the President.  The problem for
the country is that Corporations are controlling
both the Congress and the President for private
benefit at the expense of public benefit.

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By christian96, February 26, 2011 at 1:06 am Link to this comment

Who controls the military?  There’s your enemy!

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By Reginald Hobbes, February 26, 2011 at 12:20 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

1.There is a deficit in the current year, much of it because the state must repay the $200 million Gov Doyle illegally took from the Patient Compensation Fund.
Walkers recent tax cuts have nothing to do with it, they don’t take effect until July 1.
2. If the 14 Democrats don’t return and vote by March 1, the state will miss the window to refinance it’s debt, costing it over $100 million.
3. Workers for the federal govt and many states cannot collectively bargain for wages, benefits, or anything else. Why have there been no protests for them? Bargaining is not a right covered by the federal or state constitutions. It was granted by state law and can be rescinded the same way.
4. You will have to wait a year to recall Walker, but why do it? If he’s wrong, 4 years from now, the Democrats will be back in power and they will give everything back to the unions (and then some).

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By MarthaA, February 25, 2011 at 11:18 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, February 26 at 3:27 am,

One would have to know what they have in their new bylaws,
since they took over the Democratic Farmer and Labor Party
in the 80’s, but I think it is hopeless, whatever the
few liberals do will be got in front of by the DLC,
PPI, 3rd Way, New Liberals, or the New Democrats
and squash it promptly, take credit for what was
done, and go on with their DLC, PPI, 3rd Way, New
Liberal, and New Democrat Conservative Agenda,
just like was done after the Dean Movement,
which was done by President Obama, their
leader, who has no objective use of a liberal
movement—he’s conservative all the way, but
conservative for the Corporate New Democrats,
instead of the conservative Right-Wing, but
conservative has no benefit for the common
populace.
.

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By Shenonymous, February 25, 2011 at 10:27 pm Link to this comment

The more I listen to the politicians speak their own words on the
media, the more and more and more they seem to be hoisting
themselves on their own petards.  I am not holding my breath for
the Democrats in Washington to change.  Though there are a small
band of them who are liberal stalwarts, and I hang some hope on
Bernie Sanders, a non-Democrat socialist who doesn’t pull his
punches, but nearly always votes with the Democrats.  And while
it might be as you mightily describe MarthaA, and that it might be
that they are not salvageable, I have not come to that conclusion. 
I do retain the belief the Democratic Party can be transformed by
sincere liberals through grass roots action.  I consider myself a
sincere liberal. 

I completely agree with you that a movement such as that occurring
in Wisconsin and other states is what is essential and mandatory.  But
I believe that is the only way to regain equilibrium.  If there are those
who think a third-party can gain enough traction to win enough
elections to make a significant difference within my lifetime, I would
like to see evidence even just giving a nod that approximates that
and at that time, I will apologize and do some reconsideration.  As I
have repeated, my personal project is to defeat the Republicans.  That
is my sole pledge, my shout out loud, and all my efforts and energy is
going to that end.

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By MarthaA, February 25, 2011 at 9:15 pm Link to this comment

ardee, February 25 at 11:59 am and Shenonymous,
February 23 at 5:47 pm,

My agreement with Shenonymous’s post was
what I said plus that Gov. Walker should be
pilloried, which I failed to say, and for that I
apologize. 

I no longer believe the Democratic Party can be
used to regain equilibrium because it is under
steadfast corporate control.  I believe there has
to be a movement of the people, like what is
happening in Wisconsin and many other states
currently, for a new and equal political party that
will represent the crippled, infirmed and old, the
young, the unemployed and all forms of labor
including farmers, which is the American Common
Populace, as a class and culture,
because the Democratic Party does not and
never will represent them, because this
Democratic Party took farmers and laborers out
of their name and at the same time quit
representing farmers and laborers and even
separated as a class and culture from this group
of society into their NEW CLASS represented by
the DLC, PPI, or 3rd Way New Democrats. The
following copy of a post is the Conservative/Moderate
Agenda of both parties, not just the
Republicans.  We need a new EQUAL political
party and currently there is none: 


The Strategy Behind the Budget Battles

by Allan Lichtman
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011
/02/25-7

“Republican responses to budget challenges
nationally and in Wisconsin come together as
part of a long-standing strategy to destroy
institutions that allegedly sustain the American
left. Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker and
Republicans in the state legislature have
targeted teachers’ unions.
Republicans
budget-cutters in Congress have targeted
Planned Parenthood, the Public Broadcasting
Corporation, and the Legal Services Corporation,
among other groups. Their budget inflicts little or
no pain on Republican-leaning organizations
such as the agribusinesses that garner most
farm payments or the oil companies that receive
billions in special tax subsidies.

The GOP first elaborated this strategy in a 1999
memo on priorities for the new millennium that I
discovered in the papers of former
Republican Representative Dick Armey of
Texas
. A copy of the memo can be found in
the photo essay of my book, White Protestant
Nation: The Rise of the American Conservative
Movement.

The memo outlined strategies for “defunding
the left”
by eliminating “sources of hard
currency for the Democratic Party” following
President Ronald Reagan’s “model for cutting off
the flow of hard currency to the Soviet Union.” To
weaken the unions, Republicans would promote
free trade and repeal the Davis Bacon Act that
required prevailing wages on federally funded or
assisted projects. The party would strive to
restrict the use of compulsory union dues for
political purposes. It would push for liability
limitations on lawsuits to stanch the flow of funds
to liberal groups and political candidates from
trial lawyers. The GOP would weaken the
National Education Association and teachers’
unions by promoting “school choice.” It
would work to abolish the Legal Services
Corporation and the Public Broadcasting System
and kill incentives for tax-deductible donations to
“liberal foundations” by repealing estate
taxes.

In attempting to weaken the foundations of
American liberalism, Republicans may have
reached too far. Since their successful
demonstrations in the battle for Florida after the
2000 election, conservatives have dominated the
streets. Now, for the first time in recent memory,
liberal protesters have taken to the streets in
large numbers, portending perhaps the rise of
the grassroots leftwing base that Obama
promised, but failed to deliver thus far.”


http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/02/25-7

Conservatives/Moderates ARE Right-Wingers no matter
which political side they caucus with.

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By Leefeller, February 25, 2011 at 11:59 am Link to this comment

Poster Bonito describes the situation as I see it, the Unions are the last standing defense to the corporate mentality. I suggest unions support the working person, and better then either political party seems to muster in their little finger. Right now the Republicans blatantly support big money and not one thing of interest to support the people, especially the employed or unemployed working people. Since the eighteen hundreds unions had to fight every inch of the way and to hold and gain some ground.  Unions are not perfect, neither is anything else as far as I can see.

Wall Street screwed over the nation, Clinton screwed over the nation, and the Republicans are attempting to place the last few screws in the coffin, lately they have been using nails, for the noise has become defining from inside the coffin. 

The bickering seen here on these threads servers no purpose other than distractions, GRYM offers little if anything at all in the way of enlightenment, his job seems to be to take peoples eyes off the nails going into the coffin. Some of the other bickering serves the same purpose.

Wisconson is very important and the Unions must maintain their right of collective bargaining, the Republicans offer northing except a continuous destruction of the middle class, by ignoring the Wall Street Bale out and supporting the spending of money on never ending wars.

Their seems little difference in the attitude Governor Walkers displays towards the people of Wisconsin than the attitude shown by Qaddafi towards the people of Libya.

From an article in the NYT;

“Richard Freeman, an economist at Harvard, said he saw the hostility toward unions as a sign of decay in society. Some working-class people see so few possibilities for their lives that it is eroding the aspirational nature that has long been typical of Americans.”

““It shows a hopelessness,” he said. “It used to be, ‘You have something I don’t have; I’ll go to my employer to get it, too. Now I don’t see any chance of getting it. I don’t want to be the lowest one on the totem pole, so I don’t want you to have it either.’ ””

This mental hopelessness may be intentionally choreographed, the Republicans sure as hell love to take advantage of it.

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By Shenonymous, February 25, 2011 at 9:10 am Link to this comment

So because I choose to work for change within an established
institution, the Democratic Party, and reasoned to those who
advocate third-party alternatives that I think it is more
advantageous to work within an established agency such as
the Democratic Party, I should be demonized?  It defies any
mentally balanced claim to champion the freedom of thought,
freedom of speech, and freedom to choose, and to not just mimic
those ideas like clowns, but to in fact believe them, and live by
them.

In other words, those who would deny me my voice, through a
relentless attack, my choice to battle in ways I think are advantageous
to what I perceive are detriments to a sane and decent society, to have
my opinions without being denigrated, these people are thugs and
autocrats drowning in their own scum of thought. 

It causes acute curiosity if these individuals are not in reality Republican
shills who would try to undermine any real and dangerous determined
effort to interrupt their plan to decimate the resources of the majority
of the American people and to keep them in thrall to their plan to
scavange whatever personal resources the majority of the American
people have to live a decent and healthful life.  The skill of propaganda
can take many forms and is pernicious, meaning it methodically and
systematically eats away at a person’s thinking so that hearing or
reading lies enough times causes them to think the lie is the truth. 

I do ask and have not asked anyone to change their personal plan to
right the wrongs in this world.  But I do demand that those who have a
different plan to not be fascists in an attempt to condemn me for
working a different avenue. 

What Walker is doing is a breach of justice and this man ought to be
removed as well as his colleagues.  It is my hope that the people of
Wisconsin has presence of mind to swiftly detach this man from public
office.  His is a master of two-faced speaking and we can only hope the
people see it, remember it, and do something about it.  Understanding
the sovereignty of states, still denying bargaining rights of the people
should be an assault of some constitutional right to assembly and
someone needs to be looking into getting the Justice Department
involved.

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By Leefeller, February 25, 2011 at 8:41 am Link to this comment

What cause do the Republicans stand for, they have blatantly shown they the Republicans do not support the people in general, but people support them?

I sort of see, this whole meltdown in the economy, the ignoring of the bale out, wasting lives and money on never ending wars, the constant attacks on anything worthy of protecting peoples rights such as unions and a National Medical plan, as part of a bigger thing,...by controling of the Mass Media, the constant cutting of education, the programed lowering of intelligence, all this seems as if the United States is self destructing in the name of something? controlling of Ignorance? I suspect the New World order? Why attack teachers, and other pubic sector workers? Possibly to make them subservient to the will of the few, so it is as if all people should work for Wall Mart the temple of success, waiting for big brother to come.

In a sense, many things center around opportunism of the self, a form of solipsism and it seems the Republicans have developed their solipsism into a fanatical religion.

Like a rape victim, the people of this country and the world are abused even raped and lead to believe they are at fault for all their suffering. The masses deserve to suffer and keep on suffering, it as if all people are untouchables, except for a select few. So this way the rapist always becomes the victim.

Steve Almond succinctly states some of what I am attempting to describe and fail miserably, Almonds words appear as words of wisdom, and describe what we all see and hear every day.

“Maybe it makes sense to regard the demagogues of the Right as emotional alchemists. Every day, they convert unbearable feelings into exalted ones. Powerlessness becomes fear which becomes rage which becomes righteousness which becomes heroism.”

Steve Almond

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By ardee, February 25, 2011 at 6:59 am Link to this comment

I agree with Shenonymous’s post, there isn’t much we can do besides posting on blogs and making as many people aware as possible of the Conservative Right-Wing Hitleresque plot
to destroy unions, and all the infrastructure of the common populace, except send money for food if we can.  In Oklahoma,unions have already been destroyed.

I guess ,then, that you also agree with that apologist for the Democratic Party that voting for them is still the best way to progress. Sorry but you know the old saw about repeating unsuccessful strategies again and again.

Further, to say that there is nothing that can be done is to speak for the forces that seek to end all protections, for workers, for children, for seniors, for women. The power resides with the people, or haven’t you been watching events in Egypt, Tunisia, Libya et al? Your surrender surprises me actually, I guess I am still naive. It also nauseates as well.

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By RenZo, February 24, 2011 at 5:20 pm Link to this comment

@ bonito, February 24 at 7:13 pm
I believe you are wasting your breath on GoRight.

However reading you post I think I have noticed another paradox (or two) in the Republicon/ NeoLiberal/ Globalist/ Corporatist plan. You mentioned a “global economy”, which is clearly what the corporatists want to create, and what their minions (e.g. Walker) are working on. Yet the same Republicons who are carrying out this plan, when not talking out of that side of their mouth, are accusing liberals of wanting a World Government (more several years ago than they do now).

Liberals NOW actually want tariffs, local (national) workers unions and national governments that protect the living breathing people more than the corporate “people”. Corporatists want to exert their oligarchic control (fascism, by any other name) via corporate influence. This is a slightly different (slightly!) plan than One World Government; it is One World Market shared by a few increasingly large monopolistic corporations. It is essentially a revolution already, since they are actually and factually seizing control as we bitch and moan in blogs. They started this revolution. The response is counter-revolution (generally considered to be ‘conservative’).

The road is now open in the US to let them take over (completely). There is nothing really amusing in this scenario except that quite a few Republicons (e.g. Walker) do not understand where we all, thanks to them, are headed. Their stupidity is really quite amusing. Go Right serves their interests, and that is amusing also. A good brain is a terrible thing to waste.

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By bonito, February 24, 2011 at 2:13 pm Link to this comment

To GRYM   Apparently you have appointed yourself as
Commander-in-chief of the forces defending the Rich
and Greedy not only here in the land of Capitalism,
but also the whole Universe. I do not pretend to have
first hand knowledge of just how you support yourself
and/or your family, but would venture a guess that if
you had ever worked for a living that it was for a
non-union RAT Co. and,when it came to pass you felt
you deserved a raise, you had to go with hat in hand
to kiss the boss’s Ass, to beg for a 1 percent
increase in an already meager salary.

You seem proud of the fact that we have a Global
Economy and from this day forward all citizens of
these United States will now have to compete with
everyone in the world making fifty cents an hour, and
the only thing standing in the way of a drastic
reduction in our wages, is the Unions and those whom
have the guts to organize to protest the repressive
actions taken by the dictatorial Republican governors
now running the states of Wisconsin,Ohio,Indiana,etc.
Now you pretend to possess the intelligence of
Einstein when it comes to Labor matters, what would
be your solution to the problems facing the working
people in this country, (forget about the rest of the
world) after their wages have been cut to the point
where they may be able to compete with the rest of
the Universe, how are they going to run down to
Walmart and buy all of that stuff made in China,
Vietnam, Japan, Korea, and all of the other former
enemies that it would seem that we cannot do enough
for.     

Foreign trade is good for just about everyone
involved, but when we enter into unfair trade
agreements written by your patron saints the Kock
brothers, and all of the other Billionaires,and
Millionaires that seem to have 99% of the influence
in Washington, it is the working people here in this
country that suffer, not the Rich and Greedy. It
would seem to me that the only way to cause them any
heartburn, would be to require they to buy a smaller
Yacht, or maybe a 10 Million dollar mansion instead
of a 50 Million one,or, have them fly first class
instead of in a private jet. The only reason working
people (Union or otherwise) ever made any more than
minimum wage was because workers did rise up and cast
off their chains,organized, and demanded a more
equitable share of the profits usually reserved for
their masters.

When through the course of history, an elitist ruling
class becomes non-responsive to the Electorate, then
it is the Right, Nay! it is the Duty of the latter to
rise up and overthrow their masters.

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By MarthaA, February 23, 2011 at 9:31 pm Link to this comment

Transcript of Gov. Walker in Prank Call: ‘This is Our Moment’
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2011/02/23-2

“What is the return desired for their [the Koch’s] investment? It
looks like the first dividend Walker wants to pay, through the help
of the Koch-subsidized cheerleaders from Americans for Prosperity,
is a death knell for unions and the rights of workers to organize.
But tens of thousands of Wisconsin citizens have stood up this
week to say this ROI will not be paid, that their rights will not be
the price Walker exacts from them in return for the largess the
Kochs have shown him as the anointed instrument of their agenda
in this state.”

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/02/23-5

I agree with Shenonymous’s post, there isn’t much we
can do besides posting on blogs and making as many people
aware as possible of the Conservative Right-Wing Hitleresque plot
to destroy unions, and all the infrastructure of the common
populace, except send money for food if we can.  In Oklahoma,
unions have already been destroyed.

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By christian96, February 23, 2011 at 8:31 pm Link to this comment

Big money is behind Wisconsin, Egypt, etc.  It’s
probably been better than a year since I said that
as we approach electric cars the price of gasoline
will skyrocket.  So they get the media to feed the
masses supposed turmoil in Egypt, Libya, etc.  What
happens?  A rise in gasoline prices!  Expect the
turmoil to continue to be fed the masses and the
price of gasoline to go up.  The masses can’t figure
it out.  They are too busy with sports, movies, etc.
I think if I see Reagan say, “Tear down this wall
Mr. G…” one more time, I’ll throw up on my living
room floor.  Do you think the Russian gov’t would
listen to a Hollywood actor spit out garbage? Not
for one second except that the rich and famous in
Russia, America, Europe, Arabia, etc. made it look
like the Russians would listen to a has-been actor.
Why would they do so?  Let’s see!  Do you think
money could have anything to do with it?

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By FLOYD IN FLORIDA, February 23, 2011 at 4:21 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

AND WHAT YOU WON’T TELL YOUR READERS IS THESE TAX CUTS ARE FOR NEXT YEAR MEAN WHILE THIS YEAR THE STATE IS BROKE!

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By Shenonymous, February 23, 2011 at 12:47 pm Link to this comment

“Is it a fact Walker gave tax breaks to special interests?”  - It was
his first order of business upon becoming sworn in as governor. 
The guy ought to be pilloried. Public stocks ought to be brought
back.  But I guess we have to be satisfied with electronically doing
it on blogs!

I think the om is missing from comprise, but then that might just be
too Hinduistic?  Have I really made a legitimate qualifier? 

Ed Schultz, often too cardiacically excitable for my sensibilities, but
also just as often I find him an online liberal pundit hero, I think he
calls himself a progressive, spent the last two and a half days in
Wisconsin and his program of yesterday are worthwhile revisiting to
hear his observations and no doubt will also be today.  Yes he is
passionate and has a personal proclivity for unions but he hits the
ugly nail of the Republican’s agenda square on the head.  Rachel
Maddow does a superb job too.

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By RayLan, February 23, 2011 at 12:41 pm Link to this comment

The one trick pony of the right is to divert attention from some essential factors by obsessing about another.

It’s a form of lying really. For instance, the war on terror was conflated with attacking Iraq - the fact that Iraq did not attack us, was strategically ignored as long as it could be -
then the WMD hysteria was replaced with a Sadam Husein hysteria which was replaced with an insurgence hysteria etc…

Now the screaming about the Wisconsin deficit leaves out the critical factors
1. that breaking unions isn’t going to grow the economy or create jobs.
2. reducing revenues (tax breaks) can only increase that deficit (cost) if you know the fundamentals of bookkeeping.

These glaring ommissions are gagged and smoked out with a lot of loud self-righteous bluster about spending but at least this time it isn’t working (as opposed to the November elections - what were Wisconsinites thinking?)

On a national level, the rant about cutting government spending leaves out the explanation of how government restrictions (and only government restrictions) is supposed to grow the economy, not to mention how the Wall Street criminal practices that crashed the market have not even been addressed.

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By Leefeller, February 23, 2011 at 12:22 pm Link to this comment

Walker and the Koch Brothers have your best interests at heart, I am sure of it,..... anyone want to buy a bridge?

Collective bargaining is a necessary tool for workers to protect their interests and labor.  Collective bargaining absolutely does not serve special interests agendas, the same special interests who would if they could get rid of minimum wages, destroy any consumer or environmental regulations (except those protecting their own interests like big oil, wall street,  ect.). 

Is it a fact Walker gave tax breaks to special interests? Another good old boy payoff, absolutely nothing new here, guess this is why Republicans do not like change?

It seems the Republicans do not comprise, hence the party of no. Eventually the Republicans may find it all coming back home to roost, because they set themselves up for winner take all. The Walkers and Kochs’ of this world may win this one, at least for a time, (sure they have Wall Street behind them)  Special interests as opportunists, have the resources and money. The Republicans are like the Mussolinis of this world, but someday there will be a turning point, the people can only take so much stupidity and abuse,(probably much more than I can)  I just may not see it happen in my life time.  It remains to be seen, but I hope the Unions win in Wisconsin, if the Unions win, it will be like my team winning the super-bowl…... But I am not a gambler.

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By kulu, February 23, 2011 at 4:57 am Link to this comment

The Tunisians drew the line, the Egyptians did and the Libyans, Bahrainis? and Iranians are desperately trying to do the same. Please, please MarthaG et al stick with it.

The downward slide cannot continue. And don’t let Walker and his thugs deprive teachers and others of their hard earned remuneration packages, some of which (the parts being targeted) come in the form of pension rights, health insurance rights or what have you). I’m pretty sure many in the private sector also enjoy similar such rights as part of their overall pay packages: I bet Scott Walker does.

I know for some protesters the pay lost whilst on strike will cause extreme hardship, the risk of foreclosures etc etc but even so the line must be drawn and the longer you wait the harder it will be.

You can read this one out at the protest if you like.

Ian Rudd, Perth Australia

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By MarthaA, February 23, 2011 at 2:46 am Link to this comment

christian96, February 23 at 6:52 am,

What about Indiana?  There’s no SIN or CON in Indiana.

I hoping people of the common populace will choose to rally for
a new and equal political party to represent the whole class and
culture, instead of having no representation as separate
individuals, but in the meantime I agree with Paul Krugman:

An excerpt for Paul Krugman’s Editorial

‘Wisconsin Power Play’

Published: February 20, 2011

“Why bust the unions? As I said, it has nothing to do with helping Wisconsin deal with its current fiscal crisis. Nor is it likely to help the state’s budget prospects even in the long run: contrary to what you may have heard, public-sector workers in Wisconsin and elsewhere are paid somewhat less than private-sector workers with comparable qualifications, so there’s not much room for further pay squeezes.

So it’s not about the budget; it’s about the power.

In principle, every American citizen has an equal say in our political process. In practice, of course, some of us are more equal than others. Billionaires can field armies of lobbyists; they can finance think tanks that put the desired spin on policy issues; they can funnel cash to politicians with sympathetic views (as the Koch brothers did in the case of Mr. Walker). On paper, we’re a one-person-one-vote nation; in reality, we’re more than a bit of an oligarchy, in which a handful of wealthy people dominate.

Given this reality, it’s important to have institutions that can act as counterweights to the power of big money. And unions are among the most important of these institutions.

You don’t have to love unions, you don’t have to believe that their policy positions are always right, to recognize that they’re among the few influential players in our political system representing the interests of middle- and working-class Americans, as opposed to the wealthy. Indeed, if America has become more oligarchic and less democratic over the last 30 years — which it has — that’s to an important extent due to the decline of private-sector unions.

And now Mr. Walker and his backers are trying to get rid of public-sector unions, too.

There’s a bitter irony here. The fiscal crisis in Wisconsin, as in other states, was largely caused by the increasing power of America’s oligarchy. After all, it was superwealthy players, not the general public, who pushed for financial deregulation and thereby set the stage for the economic crisis of 2008-9, a crisis whose aftermath is the main reason for the current budget crunch. And now the political right is trying to exploit that very crisis, using it to remove one of the few remaining checks on oligarchic influence.

So will the attack on unions succeed? I don’t know. But anyone who cares about retaining government of the people by the people should hope that it doesn’t.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/21/opinion/21krugman.html

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By christian96, February 23, 2011 at 1:52 am Link to this comment

Please notice that Wisconsin ends with “SIN.” 
What Governor Walker is doing is a SIN.  By the way the word before “SIN” in Wisconsin is “CON.” I’ll
just leave it there.

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By Jimmy1920, February 23, 2011 at 1:45 am Link to this comment

Goodness gracious! Don’t some of you guys have jobs!  I would suggest that the lefties here leave Don Quixote GRYM to tilt at his windmills.  Instead, if you live in Wisconsin join the fray.
Gov. Brown shirt Walker is not going to give in easily and sparring with the likes of GRYM is hardly going to help.
I am leaving town for a few days and I hope I return to an e-mail box full of
[Truthdig] New comment posted to What Gov. Walker Won’t Tell You
only to learn that GRYM has been talking to himself for five days.
Enjoy

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By MarthaA, February 22, 2011 at 11:35 pm Link to this comment

http://www.alternet.org/story/149961/live_reports:_on_the_ground_at_uprising_in_wisconsin?page=entire

Thought I would just throw in here how nice the crowd is and has
been treated by the police department in Madison, Wisconsin—I
have been unable to tell whether they are all white:

February 21, 2011, “Fox “News” spent the whole weekend
advancing the specter of thuggish unionists “rioting” at the capitol,
which as usual turned out to be wrong. The Madison police
Department issued a release after Saturday’s protests praising
the demonstrators:

  On behalf of all the law enforcement agencies that helped
keep the peace on the Capitol Square Saturday, a very sincere
thank you to all of those who showed up to exercise their First
Amendment rights. You conducted yourselves with great decorum
and civility, and if the eyes of the nation were upon Wisconsin,
then you have shown how democracy can flourish even amongst
those who passionately disagree.

According to MPD, there were a few minor scuffles, but no major
incidents and no arrests through Saturday night. Kristine Mattis,
who blogs at “Rebelpleb,” added that “rumblings that protesters
have “trashed” the capitol…[are] completely false. Members of
unions, particularly the Teaching Assistants’ Association (TAA) and
the Milwaukee Graduate Assistants’ Association (MGAA), have
been regularly organizing volunteer crews to clean up trash and
litter.” Mattis adds that a sign in the Capitol Building informing
visitors that firearms aren’t permitted within “only emerged, after
five days of entirely peaceful protests, when the Tea Party
arrived.”” [February 21, 2011]  http://www.alternet.org/story/149986/what’s_going_on_in_wisconsin_latest_developments_and_analysis_on_the_democratic_uprising_against_gov._scott_walker?page=entire

Of course the Conservatives and the Republican Right
want to get the subject of lack of representation
off onto race and anything else, but
representation of the working people as a class and culture,
the American Common Populace Class and Culture or
American Populace class and culture, which includes the old and
infirmed that have worked, the young that will work, the
unemployed that would work, the employed at whatever wage,
farmers and laborers of all kinds, as well as the crippled are all in the
American Common Populace Class and Culture, unless they
have chosen to be in the Corporate Conservative NEW CLASS and
Culture that separated out of the Common Population or the
Corporate Republican Elite Capitalist Class and Culture, as there
are only three classes and cultures in the United States and only
one class and culture that isn’t being represented in the making
and enforcing of legislated law and order, the American Common
Populaces’ Class and Culture of working folks that are working or
have worked in one way or another and are not the Nearly Nobles
or the Nobles of society.

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By RenZo, February 22, 2011 at 11:21 pm Link to this comment

Sorry about the double posting.

I am beginning to see that GRYM is really trying out new comedy material for a stand up act on FauxNooz. I guess it is hard to find REAL events with which to find fault, so he invents them. Unfortunately, it’s not funny. Nor worthy of serious debate either.

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By Shenonymous, February 22, 2011 at 9:47 pm Link to this comment

Never thinking I was a racist for anything, even proud of it, now
that you mention it GRYM, I think I am a TeaParty racist!  Yet it
doesn’t bother me. One would think it would for a person claiming
to be a Moral One.  Yet it doesn’t’ and I am a Moral One.  I ask
myself, “Self, How can that be?” And Self answers, like being just a
little bit pregnant, “I am just a little bit Immoral.”  I happen to have
the greatest sympathy for the underprivileged in this country with
all the obscene wealth that levitates among the wealthy.  So if I have
to be a bit immoral in the face of such obscenity, so be it.

But the other funny, meaning peculiar, thing is that I have been in
the middle of a group that was all white and no one outside the
group thought we were racists.  Now take a look at some ethnically
purists in other parts of the world, like Japan, or China, or India, or
some Arab countries where mixing the races or even enemy families
and such as in Italy, is strictly taboo and then you see that racism
has different species.

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By MarthaA, February 22, 2011 at 9:19 pm Link to this comment

Check out this Wisconsin protest footage for the American Majority Kohl Bros and Rupert Murdoch’s Tea Party signs that GRYM is talking about, I haven’t seen one of those signs, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t there, or maybe I missed them.

Also, check out the cool music:

http://vimeo.com/20089255

And, I understand China and Egypt along with many from USA are sending pizza to the protesters to help sustain them in their endeavor for equality for their class and culture along side the other two classes and cultures that have systematically been taking all the wealth of the nation for themselves.

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By Go Right Young Man, February 22, 2011 at 8:31 pm Link to this comment

Jon Stewert’s Daily Show aired a clip featuring a recent CNN report from the capital of Wisconsin. 

The all white Americans displayed in the frame were shouting “United We Stand”...“United We Stand”...“United We Stand”.  This is obviously code for, Together We Hate Little Brown Babies!

I may not know who these people are, however, there is no denying what we’re seeing.  These are obviously angry and dangerous racists!

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By Go Right Young Man, February 22, 2011 at 7:05 pm Link to this comment

RenZo,

The “We Want Our Country Back” signage I saw must have been on display by those nasty moderates, libertarians and conservatives.  Of course that would explain why the crowds have been nearly all white also.

The unmitigated disdain for Governor Walker, and the truly odd conspiracy theories on this very page is, I’m sure, all part of that same group of really really bad Tea Party racists.

Do not forget.  It has been proven.  There can be no doubt.  It is common knowledge to every thinking man and woman on the globe.  No matter the demographics of the local population, if a crowd is largely white they are, we have been told more times than one can count, a group of racists.

Come to think of it; it’s likely these events in Wisconsin, and today building in Ohio, are being instigated entirely by the Tea Party. - Evidenced by the same types of organized protests and signage.

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By RenZo, February 22, 2011 at 6:21 pm Link to this comment

I heard there were only 200 neorightlibertarians busseed in with signage.

I do not think I participated in the blogging about signage and Baggers. If you can find it, please let me know. Good luck GRYM. Look long, look hard, and look well. You might yet be right.

I fully suspect that any nasty signage you personally think you saw, or heard that you should think you saw, was carried there and displayed by the subversive agents of the King, whoops, I meant to say the filthy-rich-oligo-overlords, who like you are trying to put a nasty spin on the events.

A sure fire way to tell if the signage is authentically produced & displayed by union affiliated workers is to “LOOK FOR THE UNION LABEL” on the sign. If it’s there the sign was made in America by union workers. Good luck GRYM. Look long, look hard, and look well. You might yet be right.

You keep using the phrase “all white”, which, if memory serves, in Wisconsin, pretty much describes the whole population. Did you also notice that all the demonstrators in Egypt were white? In Tunisia?

Remember to Look For The Union Label!

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By RenZo, February 22, 2011 at 6:17 pm Link to this comment

I heard there were only 200 neorightlibertarians bussed in with signage not 2000 (and that is among 70,000 demonstrators).

I do not think I participated in the blogging about signage and Baggers. If you can find it, please let me know. Good luck GRYM. Look long, look hard, and look well. You might yet be right.

I fully suspect that any nasty signage you personally think you saw, or heard that you should think you saw, was carried there and displayed by the subversive agents of the King, whoops, I meant to say the filthy-rich-oligo-overlords, who like you are trying to put a nasty spin on the events.

A sure fire way to tell if the signage is authentically produced & displayed by union affiliated workers is to “LOOK FOR THE UNION LABEL” on the sign. If it’s there the sign was made in America by union workers. Good luck GRYM. Look long, look hard, and look well. You might yet be right.

You keep using the phrase “all white”, which, if memory serves, in Wisconsin, pretty much describes the whole population. Did you also notice that all the demonstrators in Egypt were white? In Tunisia?

Remember to Look For The Union Label!

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By MarthaA, February 22, 2011 at 4:37 pm Link to this comment

I expect all the signs GRYM counted of “WE WANT OUR COUNTRY BACK” was from the 2,000 Tea Party Right-Wingers’ American Majority club that KOCH had bussed to Madison to try and take over the Left’s movement and found they were out numbered 35 to 1.

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By MarthaA, February 22, 2011 at 4:22 pm Link to this comment

GRYM must learn to use the bar at the bottom as I have to read his posts and everyone else’s posts.

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By Go Right Young Man, February 22, 2011 at 4:14 pm Link to this comment

RenZo,

If memory serves you railed against the Tea Party for being really really mean in verbiage and signage. - Many of the comments and signage at Tea protests was truly over-the-top!

Obviously I could not possibly disagree more with your take on events in Wisconsin.  That does not make the vile remarks and signage at the Capital building, amongst the almost all-white crowd, any more or less unhinged.

-

Facing facts:  I counted over a dozen signs which read “We Want Our Country back”.

According to nearly every liberal thinker in the United States, the signs and comments on display in Wisconsin over the past week are indicative of coming violence and inherent racism.

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By Go Right Young Man, February 22, 2011 at 3:46 pm Link to this comment

ThomarthaG,

Why must you constantly post in such a way that overextends a browsers viewing borders?  How about addressing that issue before you address any other?

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By RenZo, February 22, 2011 at 3:40 pm Link to this comment

@ GRYM
“Nasty signage”?  Clearly you imagine yourself righthanded, but are you for real? Nasty signage?
The governor is about to disassemble the very structure of Western democracy, the unions who represent the Primacy of Labor against YOU who represent (and are paid by) the aristocrats.
Find a history book, look up ‘French Revolution’, and read about the ‘French Razor’ slicing off the heads of the oligarchs as the peasants ate bread again for lunch while cheering.
Then tell me how nasty and vile the signage is.
BYTHEWAY: Primacy of Labor means that there would be NO capital without labor. Labor creates capital. You represent an ancient anachronism, a lacky of the aristocrats we thought gone in the Great Terror. Time to drag out the Razor again. This time we can call it the Madison Razor.

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By MarthaA, February 22, 2011 at 2:59 pm Link to this comment

Also, here is something else Gov. Walker won’t tell you, bringing home 150 troops from Afghanistan would fix Wisconsin’s budget crisis:
http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2011/02/19/bringing-home-150-troops-from-afghanistan-would-fix-wisconsins-budget-crisis/

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By MarthaA, February 22, 2011 at 2:47 pm Link to this comment

Americans For Prosperity is a Koch Brothers program.

Wisconsin Is a Battleground Against the Billionaire Kochs’ Plan to Break Labor’s Back:
http://www.alternet.org/story/149965/wisconsin_is_a_battleground_against_the_billionaire_kochs’_plan_to_break_labor’s_back?page=entire

What’s Going on in Wisconsin? Latest Developments and Analysis on the Democratic Uprising Against Gov. Scott Walker: 
http://www.alternet.org/story/149986/what’s_going_on_in_wisconsin_latest_developments_and_analysis_on_the_democratic_uprising_against_gov._scott_walker?page=entire


The uprising is more that against Gov. Scott Walker, it is against the whole conservative Right-Wing administrative support of Gov. Scott Walker, Walker is just a figurehead puppet.

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By Stencil, February 22, 2011 at 2:22 pm Link to this comment

Good article, have to point out that your Google ad is pointing to http://americansforprosperity.org/walker/ on my screen, Google knows why, I doubt they will get much click through here.

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By Go Right Young Man, February 22, 2011 at 1:49 pm Link to this comment

Watching MSNBC this morning I found it fascinating that Mika Brzezinski admits she “had no idea” that the nearly All White crowd of unionists in Wisconsin had, from the beginning of the protests, been carrying such nasty, vile, and angered signage against an elected official.

Perhaps Ms. Brzezinski should tune out MSNBC and follow local Wisconsin news coverage in it’s stead.

-

“At the top of Morning Joe, Joe Scarborough referenced the hateful emails he and Mika had received from the left and the similarly ugly signs held by Wisconsin union protesters.  Mika reflexively defended the vileness, saying that people were ‘hurting and really don’t feel like they’re being heard.’”

Later in the program the show rolled video of some of the Wisconsin signs, including one with crosshairs on Gov. Walker, another calling him Hitler, one accusing him of rape, and of course that great old standard “death to tyrants.”

To her credit, Mika did change her tune.

-

I find it equally fascinating that Shenonymous, having watched Morning Joe this day, failed to mention or denounce such vile nastiness coming from her side of the isle.  According to Shenonymous this type of behavior is reserved for libertarians, moderates and conservatives amongst the Tea Party. - An oversight, I’m sure.

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By cheyenne, February 22, 2011 at 1:10 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

GRYM: You are a troll.  Gov. Walker is a coward for “standing up” to organized public servants.

There is no such thing as ‘the free market’ since even banks need bailing out.  Who can’t see this?  Answer:  Brainwashed, greedy airheads like Go Wrong Young Man here.  *spits*

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By Go Right Young Man, February 22, 2011 at 11:58 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous,

Your February 22, 4:47 pm post makes little sense to me. 

I maintain this to be a global issue we are discussing.  How have I been inconsistent in this?

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By Go Right Young Man, February 22, 2011 at 11:54 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous,

You correctly report that, for many amongst the middle class, income has more than doubled from $70,000 to $158,000.  You report this as a negative development.

$158,000 is not wealthy nor rich.  Those are the families of small business owners, butchers, doctors, police chiefs, union organizers and college professors.  Well under the income of Nancy Pelosi and her net value of $55,085,000.

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By Shenonymous, February 22, 2011 at 11:47 am Link to this comment

GRYM, yes it does seem you have a short-term memory problem,
and can’t remember what you said just a few minutes ago.  You
brought the conversation to the global theater. 

Go Right Young Man, Feb 22 3:30 pm “Fact: Manufacturers all over the
globe are moving to countries with the lowest corporate taxes and labor
costs.  Only myopic, whining, Americans believe this fact applies only to
American companies and labor.” 

Looks like you have to choke on your own words when thrown back
at your face.

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By Go Right Young Man, February 22, 2011 at 11:36 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous and Big B,

Sadly you are both making a global issue all about the United States.  This is the #1 complaint people around the world have regarding Americans.

The globe is a much larger place than each of you have yet to ponder.

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By Big B, February 22, 2011 at 11:02 am Link to this comment

GRYM, again you cannot pull a number like “47.50 in pay and benefits to push a broom” out of your ass (this may come as a shock, but just because Glen Beck says it doesn’t make it the truth)

The average american worker makes far less in salary and benefits than $47.50 and hour. Now just imagine if unions and government regs like the minimum wage and 40 hour workweek didn’t exist. Do you think wages and benefits would go up or down? We see what has happened as union influence has waned. Wages are down, benefits are diaappearing, and according to the 2010 worldwide census numbers, americans work more hours per man per job than any other nation (check last months natgeo, the stats on american productivity are stunning)

GRYM, it was greedy companies that moved jobs overseas, not greedy workers. Believeing bullshit will not make it come true.

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By Shenonymous, February 22, 2011 at 10:55 am Link to this comment

Your arguments are anachronistic, GRYM.  It is you who are in the
age of our parents. But not the age of our grandparents.  It is a new
age.

There are as well excellent 20/20 vision seeing and non-whining
Americans who are quite aware this is not uniquely an American
problem.  And who are well aware of the detriment that outsourcing
has done to the American work and the American economy because
of the cheapness of American producers whose only motivation is to
make a profit and not care on bit for the American worker or economy. 
Thus the decline of the American middle class and the further divide
between those of privilege and those who are not. 

It would seem you are of the former class.  Even though my life
situation is safe and therefore comfortable, because of the professional
union where I have willingly paid dues for nearly 30 years, but I am
located within the latter!  I do not have much in the way of extra and
am unable to afford more than the necessities of life. 

The American dream is the idea that our children and their children will
be better off than we are.  I do not have that hope in view of the fact of
the growing disparity of average income between the upper 1% and the
lower classes, class, that is, based on median income, who have to
scrap for a decent life.

Your continued defense of this disparity is unconscionable in my
estimation.  Unions are susceptible to evolution just as every other
institution and while they had a heyday 40 years ago, and descended
into a lull mainly because of that heyday and the corporatocratic effort
to decimate them with their big continuously earning big bucks because
they were so successful in winning a better life for workers.

Maybe it has been the case that laborers did elect to keep unions our of
their work place it has been with reason.  Given the removal of the
coercion of the employers backed with corporate money, it can be
predicted that the percentage will change to the benefit of the worker
and the upward ingress of unions once again when this new generation
of workers begin so see that unions are their only voice with the power
to change their circumstances.

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By Go Right Young Man, February 22, 2011 at 10:42 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous,

You believe in a long held myth that labor unions represent labor.

How much profit did the Teamsters Union report in the last fiscal year?  How much money did the Teamsters hand-over to powerful democratic interests in the last 30 plus years?

Of equal importance: What’s wrong with giving American laborers, as Governor Walker’s legislation reflects, a choice of not joining a union?

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By Go Right Young Man, February 22, 2011 at 10:30 am Link to this comment

Big B must do a great deal better with real-life facts.  Ill conceived myths and perceptions are not nearly good enough.

Fact: Manufacturers all over the globe are moving to countries with the lowest corporate taxes and labor costs.  Only myopic, whining, Americans believe this fact applies only to American companies and labor.  The ignorance in this is appalling.

The top three costs in producing an DVD player in the United States are a. Health-care, b. labor and c. taxes/regulations.

No DVD players are produced in the United States.  Those manufacturing jobs are elsewhere on the planet.  What has replaced those higher paying manufacturing jobs?  Low paying service jobs.  Thus the decline of the American middle class.

When a corrupt union insists we all need to pay an individual $47.50 in pay and benefits to push a broom, instead of creating yet another job for a collage student at half that amount, jobs will flee to Malaysia.  The very same is happening all over the globe.

Union mandated job security is great.  Right up to the point where those jobs move half-way around the planet.

-

Unions do not enjoy the support of the majority in a single State in the nation.  One is forced to wonder why.

When given a choice 7 out of 10 laborers elect to keep unions out of their own work place.  There are many who disagree and wish to force people to join unions, pay union dues, against the will of the laborer.

These are not our Grandparents unions.

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By RBurke, February 22, 2011 at 10:01 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

In all of this discussion I am left wondering how the proposed law is even constitutional. The news stories state that it would limit union negotiations to the subject of pay only, putting worker benefits, working conditions, and all other concerns off the table. Furthermore, it applies only to certain public employee unions in Wisconsin, not all of them. How is this not discriminatory and a violation of free speech?

An analogous situation would be a law limiting contract negotiations of some but not all companies doing business with the state to price only, and forbidding discussion of delivery and payment schedules, product quality, bonuses or penalties for good or bad performance on the contract, etc.  You know how such a law would be received by corporations and the GOP.

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By Shenonymous, February 22, 2011 at 10:01 am Link to this comment

Democrat Senator Chuck Schumer said it all this morning.  It is my
opinion that what Big B says is correct.  This country’s middle class
has lost median income from 48% to 46% while the upper income,
the wealthy, who collectively make billions on their investments
have increased from 1967 to 2005 those making over 150,000 or
more per annum more than doubled from 70,000 to 158,000, more
than 50% (Income and poverty since 1967 report, US Census Bureau).

This loss for the middle class coincides with the increasing decline of
unions in the United States.  The reason for this decline is not virtually
a consequence of union official corruption.  In reality, while having
some part, overall, that is a minor factor.  The reality is the combined
concerted effort of corporate power with the legislative assistance of
sympathetic Republican conservative politicians to refuse union shop
negotiation, to deny unionization and pumping money into political
candidates that promise to break any efforts for people to unionize.

Part of the Republican strategy to decimate the unions that battle
the Corportocracy and who champion a fair and decent life for the
American workforce, is to call the legally recognized representatives
and bargainers of workers socialism.  This is conspicuously a
propagandist systematic plan of action. This is strictly to play on
the natural emotion of patriotism of the American people who have
been conditioned to be alarmed and fear any and all social programs. 
The programs that equalize the utter polarization of resources between
those who are privileged and those who are exploited by those who are
privileged.

Walker lumps the upper 1% wealthy in with all taxpayers when he says
this is a time when the last thing to do is to raise taxes.  This is the
fallacy.  It is the habitual tactic Republicans use to deny the country of
the tax based treasury fount out of which all social programs are
funded.  He isn’t fooling anyone anymore having revealed his
intentions very quickly after taking office!  It is time the Wisconsin
public face the reality of this Republican’s whole nefarious and
duplicitous plan to construct a society that benefits the upper 1% and
through deconstruction of all social programs to keep the rest of the
population in thrall to them.

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