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War Looms Between Israel and Hezbollah

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Posted on Jan 22, 2010
Kfar Kila border
AP / Mohammed Zaatari

An Israeli flag, in September of 2009, flies in the Israeli town of Metulla. Overlooking the other side of the border, in Lebanon, is a picture of Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, top, and top commander Imad Mughniyeh.

By Robert Fisk

Editor’s note: This article was originally printed in The Independent.

It looks like a hop, skip and a jump. There’s the first electrified fence, then the dirt strip to identify footprints, then the tarmac road, then one more electrified fence, and then acres and acres of trees. Orchards rather than tanks. Galilee spreads beyond, soft and moist and dark green in the winter afternoon—a peaceful Israel, you might think. And a peaceful Lebanon to the north, tobacco plantations amid the stony hills, just an occasional UN armoured vehicle to keep you on your toes. “Major Pardin says you cannot take pictures,” a Malaysian UN soldier tells me. Then a second one says the same. Then along comes a Lebanese army intelligence officer and stares at our papers. “OK, you have permission,” he declares, and I snap away with my old 36-frame real-film Nikon; the fields, the frontier fence, the high-tech surveillance tower on the horizon. This must be the most photographed border in the world.

Of course, the gentle countryside is an illusion. Benjamin Netanyahu and his colleagues in the Israeli government have been announcing that the only “army” of Lebanon is the Hizbollah, the Iranian-armed and Syrian-assisted guerrilla force whose bunkers and missiles north of the Litani river might just tip the balance in the next Hizbollah-Israeli war. And Sayed Hassan Nasrallah, the chairman of the Hizbollah, has been making some even more interesting threats: that his forces will “change the face of the Middle East region” if there is another war with Israel. No one is in much doubt about what this means. The newly resurfaced Lebanese roads near the border—courtesy of Hizbollah money—suggest that someone might want to move men at high speed towards the frontier. Perhaps even to cross the border.

That’s what the Israelis suspect, too—and it makes sense of Nasrallah’s warning last week. The Hizbollah claimed that the 2006 war with Israel was a “divine victory”—it didn’t feel that way to us in southern Lebanon at the time—yet even Israel admits it was a near-defeat for its own ill-trained soldiers. But how would Israel react if the Hizbollah managed to enter Israel itself? Israeli army commanders are talking about this in the Israeli press. A fast, dramatic spring across the frontier to the west—in the direction of Naharia, perhaps, or a grab at the settlement of Kiryat Shmona—and Hizbollah would announce it had “liberated” part of historic “Palestine.” Israel would have to bomb its own territory to get them out.

This is no game. The Israeli army wants to revenge itself on the Hizbollah, which humiliated it in 2006. Nasrallah—on giant-wide screens, for security reasons—often talks as if he’s the Lebanese president. Did the Israelis really think al-Qa’ida or the Hizbollah were beind the attempted killing of two Jordanian diplomats between Amman and the Allenby bridge, Nasrallah asked. No friend of al-Qa’ida, Hizbollah would have succeeded in blowing them up if it had been involved. The crowd roared its agreement.

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But the threats continue. The Israeli defence minister, Ehud Barak, says that the Lebanese government will be held responsible for any future war and the Lebanese have had the usual warnings from Israel. Lebanon’s infrastructure will be attacked, its bridges and highways destroyed, its villages erased. Israel, Mr Barak has been saying, was restrained in 2006—when it attacked Lebanon’s infrastructure, destroyed its bridges and highways and erased its villages. Plus ça change.

But there’s a good deal of “change.” Syria is being courted by the Obama administration. Its old allies in Lebanon—Druze leader Walid Jumblatt among them—are uttering honeyed words to Damascus. Indeed, Jumblatt has been meeting both Nasrallah and his old enemy Michel Aoun, and concluding that he is three-quarters of the way down the road to Damascus. And President Assad of Syria has been visiting Tehran again, to assure the Islamic Republic of his ever-loyal support.

You can see the way everyone is thinking. And here’s the big question, the camel in the room. If Israel ignores Obama and attacks Iran’s nuclear sites—a real aggression if ever there could be – the Hizbollah could fire rockets into Israel, perhaps even revealing its new anti-aircraft missile capacity. Hamas might join in from Gaza. Hamas is a tin-pot outfit; the Hizbollah is not. An Israeli attack on Iran will unleash Iranian military power against America. But part of that power is Hizbollah in Lebanon. This is serious business.

Over Christmas, a parcel “from a foreign country” was delivered to three Hamas officials in Beirut and blew up, killing all of them. Last week, a bomb exploded in a building in southern Lebanon owned by two Hizbollah officials, wounding three children. One of them, 11-year-old Diana Zreik, had her left leg amputated. It looks like a glance at the past, to the 1970s, when Israel posted letter-bombs to its enemies in Lebanon.

The United Nations has been complaining at the increase in Israel’s overflights of Lebanese territory. The Lebanese army has been opening fire on Israeli aircraft flying over the border—useless, of course, because the Americans don’t give the Lebanese army weapons that can hurt Israel—while US Senator John McCain has dropped by in Beirut to complain about the Hizbollah’s weapons which, under UN Security Council Resolution 1701, are supposed to be in the hands of the Lebanese army. This is the same resolution that should prevent Israeli overflights.

And what do those overflights show? “We see Hizbollah expanding inside Lebanon and its growing influence, political and otherwise,” Barak said last week. “We again wish to make clear to the Lebanese leadership that we see everything, and we will hold the parties which cause increased tension responsible ... the situation can quickly deteriorate.” Thank you, Israel. Especially if Israel attacks Iran.

Party of God: Hizbollah and the politics of Islamic resistance

* Hizbollah, which can be translated as Party of God, is a Lebanese, Iranian and Syrian-backed, Shia Islamist political movement with a paramilitary wing known as “Islamic Resistance.” It emerged in 1982 as a small militia force with the aim of ending Israel’s occupation of southern Lebanon.

The movement is now a major player in Lebanese politics with its own satellite TV network, a radio station, and a vast network of social programmes from housing to agriculture. According to Hizbollah’s manifesto, the Lebanese people must be free to choose what form of government they want, but they are strongly encouraged to pick the option of Islamic government. The movement’s original goal of turning Lebanon into an Islamic Republic has been abandoned.

* Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah became Hizbollah’s Secretary General in 1992. A popular and charismatic figure, his face appears from billboards and hoardings across Beirut and south Lebanon. The deeply religious 49-year-old studied theology in Iran and is noted for his fiery sermons, excerpts of which are sometimes heard on mobile phone ringtones.

* Israel tried to kill Nasrallah during the month-long war it fought against Hizbollah in 2006. The conflict followed a Hizbollah attack on an Israeli army convoy patrolling the border with south Lebanon. Nasrallah now says Hizbollah will defeat Israel in any new conflict. “I promise you that should a new war with the Zionists erupt, we will crush the enemy, come out victorious and change the face of the region,” he said last week.


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By Shingo, February 7, 2010 at 4:01 pm Link to this comment

Part 2 of 2

Israeli leaders frequently open their mouths to change feet, and it was Tzipi Livni who gave us the biggest window into Israeli policy when she told the world that “a long ceasefire is not in Israel’s strategic interests”.

Moshe Dayan was another who was known for his frankness and honesty. IN regard to tehGolan heights, he had this to say:
“I made a mistake in allowing the Israel conquest of the Golan Heights. As defense minister I should have stopped it because the Syrians were not threatening us at the time [fourth day of the war].”

He also admitted that at least 80% of clashes that occurred with the Syrians were started by Israel.

“It went this way: We would send a tractor to plow some area where it wasn’t possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn’t shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance farther, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot. And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that’s how it was. I did that, and Laskov and Czera did that, and Yitzhak did that, but it seemed to me that the person who most enjoyed these games was Dado. We thought that we could change the lines of the ceasefire accords by military actions that were less than war. That is, to seize some territory and hold it until the enemy despairs and gives it to us.”

As for betraying the USA, Congress has been doing that for decade, which is why Israelis agents are only too happy to call their local Senator and ask that they interfere in the trial of an Israeli spy and why Olmert can get away with boasting publicly about how he interrupted a Bush speech to demand that he order the then Secretary of state to abstain from voting on a UN Resolution that the US helped tot draft.

Last but not least Woody, yes Jews are humans, but then, so were the Nazis.

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By Shingo, February 7, 2010 at 3:56 pm Link to this comment

Part 1 of 2

With the exception of ITW, every pro Israeli poster on this forum has contributed nothing more than sophomoric drivel and Ron Woodward doesn’t disappoint.

It’s mildly amusing to hear someone with the oh so Hebrewesk name of Ron Woodward, ranting about speaking to his elders like some Hebrew sharman.  The reality is Ron, that you’re Jewish heritage was undoubtedly the outcome of one of your ancestors converting to Judaism during it’s formative period.

The fact is Woody, that the Palestinians are the descendants of the original Judeans, which explains why 85% of Palestinians have Jewish lineage.

It’s also ironic to hear you railing against the American right, which has become the defacto mother ship for unconditional support of the Israeli hard right, which is to be expected given that Zionism has merely become manifestation of white supremacy.

Where did you get the idea that Israeli history was 5600 years old, given that Judaism itself was created less than 300 years ago?

Those 78% of American Jews who backed Barack Obama are by an large, the liberal Reform Jews, who refuse to confront the contradiction in which the Israel that they support would drag away their female rabbi under arrest for praying at the Kotel.  They refuse to confront the fact that the Israeli religious establishment doesn’t really consider them Jews at all.  For come time now, Israelis have playing the liberal Reform Jews for a bunch of suckers, and the US Jews just come back for more.

I am surprised that Israeli propagandists still think they can get away with touting Sharon’s withdrawal from Gaza as some act of benevolence. First of all, it was purely a pragmatic move based on the agreement among Israelis hard liners that the resources being spent protection and servicing the illegal settlements in Gaza would be better served in the West Bank, where the land is considered far more valuable.

he one and only comprehensive scholarly history of Israeli settlements n the occupied territories, “Lords of the Land”, by Idith Zertal and Akiva Eldar, describes the Israeli withdrawal as such:

“After Israel withdrew it’s forces from Gaza, in August 2005, the ruined territory was not released for even a single day from Israel’s military grip, or from the price of the occupation that the inhabitants pay every day. Israel left behind scotched earth, devastated services, and people with nearly a present or a future. The Jewish settlements were destroyed in an ungenerous move by an unenlightened occupier, which in fact continues to control the territory and kill and harass it’s inhabitants, by means of it’s formidable military might.”

This doesn’t even include the fact that Israel fired 7,700 shells into Gaza over the 10 months after the withdrawal.  Under the Republicans, Israel were given carte blanche to expand settlements and launch 2 pre - emtive wars. Obama came to office believing he could make a difference, but as French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner told us, he quickly found out that Israel does not want peace.


It’s hardly surprising that such a lazy and intellectually flatulent contribution as Ron’s would include the canard that the Palestinians rejected the two-state solution at any time, when this is a blatant lie. At Camp David, both Baraka and Clinton knew their offer was grossly inadequate, which is why talks continued at Taba, at which point both Arafat and Barak agreed that they were on the verge of a settlement, and would have reached one had they more time.  It was Barak who called off the talks early due to the impending Israeli elections.  Sharon came to office with the intention of “suspending the peace process in formaldehyde”.

Needless to say, Israel has never been invaded since 1948.

Continued

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By PatrickHenry, February 7, 2010 at 3:23 pm Link to this comment

How ashamed I would be as an earthling if an alien intelligence judged Earth on the broadcasts of FOX news.

Its a bad day when when a foreigner, and an Israeli to boot, rightly criticises Americans based on that stations commentary.

Someone should explain to them the dynamic of 200 channels of info-tainment and the internet.  Responsible reporting once included opposing viewpoint, something long since ended with the consolidation of media by 6 conglomerates, all headed by jews.

Fox is just another zionist propaganda arm where investigative journalism has long since died, however FOX did first report 9/11 and the Israelis arrested in vans in NYC with explosives and for that feat I give them credit.

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By johannes, February 7, 2010 at 9:18 am Link to this comment

To Ron_woodward,


So you think that when the Mankind moved out of Africa, the Jewish tribes waited a small 55000 years and followed than.

Or maby you think Jews are no humans, or els that they came from an other planet.

Wath a way of talking we and the rest !!!!!!!

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By ron_woodward, February 7, 2010 at 9:04 am Link to this comment

Shingo, February 7 at 6:51 am #
Usually, the Israeli’s initial boast is that he is a survivor. Many of us claim we are small droplets in the 5600-year stream the mighty flow of Jewish history. My morning prayers cover wisdom from our ancient sages. In this regard we share the Chinese disrespect for philosophies and ideologies of more recent vintage. The Chinese refer to these upstarts [and us] as barbarians.
This attitude can lead to the wrong conclusions, such as those held by the 78% of American Jews who speculated on the measure of Barack Obama style without substance. The Israelis banked the farmhouse on Ari Sharon’s unilateral withdrawal from Gaza. Both men failed to realize that Republicans and Palestinians are cut from the same cloth. Both groups promise ultimate success for their actions while ignoring the growing heap of corpses they accumulate.
The Palestinians rejected the two-state solution twice by continuing terror and by invading Israel. This proved there would be only a defacto one-state Israel surrounded by hostiles. Faced with unpleasant alternatives, the Israel answer was to grab land hilltop by easily defended hilltop.
The GOP and the Palestinians usually contrive to snatch war from the jaws of peace.
The US did not choose to sell US nuclear secrets. Members of the FBI, the Congress and the State Department betrayed the USA to the Turks.

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By Shingo, February 7, 2010 at 2:51 am Link to this comment

Ron,

Fox News preaches to the right wing choir.  What dictates the content and nature of debate in America are the corporations that run them.  For example, CNN runs a2 separate news channels, one for the world and another for the US, a strategy that was implemented before Murdoch created Fox News

Shock jocks have been part of the main stream media for decades, and indeed, they do engage in personal attacks and a perpetuating American myths, but ironically, the fact that the same could be said for Israel has never occurred to you. 
What we are witnessing in the US is being mirrored in Israel.  The country has also moved dramatically to the right and with that shift, we’ve witnessed the rise of extremism not just on the fringe, but in the mainstream.  Prior to Netenyahu, no leader dared to denounce the 2 state solution even if they did behind close doors).

It could also be said that Israeli policies are self destructive.  The expansion of Israeli settlements and the annexation of occupied territory is affecting he demographics in such a way that Jews will soon be a minority.  Unlike the US however, that isn’t just Israel’s business.

Israel is in no position to complain about who the US chooses to sell it’s secrets to, having not only benefitted from being handed secrets (not to mention hardware)  free of charge for decades.

Even more hypocritical, is your attempt to get on your high horse about others engaging in perpetual pre-emptive wars,  slavery and the associated crimes against humanity.

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By ron_woodward, February 7, 2010 at 2:35 am Link to this comment

Shingo, February 6 at 5:45 pm #
Fox News dictates the content and nature of debate in America. They fill the MSM airwaves with personal attacks and a mythical version of a country that never existed. The Republic vanished in 1950 and the Progressive Agenda came to a legislative halt in 1968. Most Americans have never enjoyed a day of freedom.
Outside the USA, we do not deny the right of the US to self-destruct. That is her business. It becomes our business when she sells her nuclear secrets to Pakistan, when she engages in perpetual preemptive wars that kill millions of Asians or when she fails to address the evils of slavery and the associated crimes against humanity that increase with it.
As many Americans regret the downfall of their country, the power elite promotes ways the people can let off steam. They can vilify the black President. They can organize a “grassroots” Tea Party supportive of corporate communism. They can condemn Jews as exemplars of evil.
All this has gone down before in many shapes and guises. Every time humanity loses.

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By Shingo, February 6, 2010 at 1:45 pm Link to this comment

Wooward,

Your posts are an ad hock and incoherent mess that doesn’t even attempt to addres the topic or the arguments made by other contributors.  Only a white supremacist would make a statement that the Ashkenazi Jews are the most intelligent group in the world. There are no statistics that support such a ludicrous claim.

Another explanation for the supremacy of the Ashkenazim has been their agression and willingness to resort to violence and crimes to achieve their aims.

Why you would feel the need to discuss what the US Army is doing in Afghanistan or your repeated mention of the absurd military spending?  Comgress also happens to be a rubber stamp for Israel.

Israelis makes few sacrifices for her health care system or anything else, because the welfare cheques they receive from the US and private contributors goes a long way towards paying for such luxuries.

It’s a mystery as to why a country that boasts fo it’s techonogical achievements still needs to rely on the teet of foreign aid.

We look forward to see if you’ll enetually address the topic at hand, or continue to argue with yourself on the side.

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By ron_woodward, February 6, 2010 at 12:45 pm Link to this comment

By PatrickHenry, February 6 at 11:46 am #
By ron_woodward, February 6 at 3:17 pm #

The Ashkenazi Jews held early prominence in Israel, because they are the most intelligent group [high IQ] in the world. The Sephardim have made forward strides in education, intermarriage and the IDF. For the modern Israeli youngsters the distinctions have blurred. The Russian and American Jews who have migrated here usually retain their hatred of Muslims.
This is an age when the FOX #noisemachine excoriates the President every day. The US Army pays Afghan warlords for safe passage of supply convoys. The Congress is a rubber stamp for the Pentagon. You “don’t see Israel as Democratic either.”
Israel makes many sacrifices for her health care system. Many doctors earn less than $2000 per month. An average prescription costs $2.50 from our pharmaceutical companies. Private British and US citizens donate more to the country than does the US government.
I wait for your list of “more deserving nations.”

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By Robert, February 6, 2010 at 10:52 am Link to this comment

Avi Shlaim on Blair

Blair: Gaza’s great betrayer

02.03.2010 | The Guardian

“It’s more than a year since Israel launched its immoral attack on Gaza and Palestinians are still living on the verge of a humanitarian disaster. So what has Tony Blair done to further peace in the region? Virtually nothing, argues the historian Avi Shlaim.

The savage attack Israel ­unleashed against Gaza on 27 December 2008 was both immoral and unjustified. Immoral in the use of force against civilians for political purposes. Unjustified because Israel had a political alternative to the use of force. The home-made Qassam rockets fired by Hamas militants from Gaza on Israeli towns were only the ­excuse, not the reason for Operation Cast Lead. In June 2008, Egypt had ­brokered a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas, the Islamic resistance movement. ­Contrary to Israeli propaganda, this was a success: the average number of rockets fired monthly from Gaza dropped from 179 to three. Yet on 4 November Israel violated the ceasefire by launching a raid into Gaza, killing six Hamas fighters. When Hamas ­retaliated, Israel seized the renewed rocket attacks as the ­excuse for launching its insane offensive. If all Israel wanted was to protect its citizens from Qassam rockets, it only needed to ­observe the ceasefire.

While the war failed in its primary aim of regime change in Gaza, it left ­behind a trail of death, devastation, ­destruction and indescribable human suffering. Israel lost 13 people, three in so-called friendly fire. The Palestinian death toll was 1,387, including 773 civilians (115 women and 300 children), and more than 5,300 people were injured. The ­entire population of 1.5 million was left traumatised. Across the Gaza Strip, 3,530 homes were completely ­destroyed, 2,850 severely damaged and 11,000 suffered structural damage.

The UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestinian Refugees, tending to the needs of four million Palestinian ­refugees, stated that Gaza had been “bombed back, not to the Stone Age, but to the mud age”; its inhabitants ­reduced to building homes from mud after the fierce 22-day offensive.”

~~~~~~~~~~~

Click on link for the rest:


{Avi Shlaim is professor of international relations at St Antony’s College, Oxford, and the author of Israel and Palestine: Reappraisals, Revisions, Refutations (Verso, 2009). His fee for this article has been donated to Medical Aid for Palestine.}

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/shlaim-on-blair/

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By PatrickHenry, February 6, 2010 at 7:46 am Link to this comment

By ron_woodward, February 6 at 3:17 pm #

The Ashkenazi jews which primarily hold power in Israel have little in common ethnically with the more semite Palestinians and Shepardic jews.  I believe there are many cases of discrimmination reminesent of pre60s America occuring today in Israel.

I’ll bet those kibitzers have a healthy share of American jewish settlers within them who are the flash points given the steady diet of zionist propaganda they are fed in America, no paper of Haaretz stature here.

I am no fan of the despotic, non democratic regimes over there like Saudi Arabia, Syria and a non democratic Egypt but I don’t see Israel as democratic either as it excludes a large part of its “free” non-jewish population from govermental representation.

If you are truely an Israeli recieving monthly health care for $24/month you affirm my belief once again that the U.S. is contributing too much foreign aid to that nation at the expense of our own population.

Alot more deserving nations are more in need of that support.

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By ron_woodward, February 6, 2010 at 7:17 am Link to this comment

By PatrickHenry, February 5 at 9:39 pm #
By johannes, February 4 at 7:45 am # To ron-woodward
By Shingo, February 4 at 7:10 am #
As an Israeli, I share in the same gene pool with Palestinians and Syrians. So, most racist aspersions have no basis from within our little group. Our members have an intimate knowledge of one another physically and culturally. As in every family, we know which buttons to push and when.
The kibitzers who pontificate about our situation give a new meaning to the phrase outside agitators. They have their own fish to fry and never hesitate to drop them into the boiling oil. Invariably, they risk conflagration.
I refuse to rehash Israeli history since the King David Hotel tragedy, but I will point to a recent glaring example. For $24 per month I enjoy complete health care. It is a natural right we take for granted, as it recognizes the bonds of citizenship between Arab and Jew. We can not think of a situation where we would deny health care to a fellow citizen.
This criterion alone ejects Americans from any discussion of human rights and common decency.

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By Inherit The Wind, February 5, 2010 at 9:41 pm Link to this comment

Shingo:
Thanks. I know we don’t agree, but at least we know how to DISAGREE.

Robert:
You have surprised me.  With your 1:57pm post you have, for the first time, used your own words, your own thoughts without them being abusive.

That is the FIRST post you have EVER made in my memory that I could respect.  I think you have mis-characterized me and my views, but that’s OK. At least you’ve provided your own analysis.

Yes, my views have changed.  A rational mind alters ones views when new facts appear or when superior analysis takes place.  No, I do NOT advocate a blanket return to the 1967 borders, especially not as a pre-condition.  Yet I DO think Israel needs to be WILLING to negotiate reasonable borders that give both sides security.  Do I care if the line is one mile too far East or West? Not if both sides can accept it!

Nor do I accept that the existence of Israel is a “unique” case. Rather I think there are MANY precedents in the last 100-150 years that provide a path to peace.

But I fully deny that EITHER side must engage in appeasement and total acquiescence to get peace.  Even if they did, peace would NOT result.

But unlike you, I do not see things in black and white. I don’t see the Palestinians as angels—their history of terrorism is only different from the Irgun in that it’s more recent.  Munich was 20-odd years after the King David Hotel bombing.

Unlike you, I know FULL WELL that both sides MUST make real compromises, if they REALLY want peace.  BOTH sides MUST see how the other feels if there’s to be any chance.

And I KNOW that there are those on BOTH sides who, more than anything, do NOT want peace, but want “victory”.  On the Israeli side, for the extremists this means conquering “Greater Judea”, forcing out or killing every non-Jew, and creating a theocratic state (a Jewish Taliban, as it were).  On the Arab side, it means the annihilation of Israel and the 5 million Jews there and creation of ANOTHER “Islamic Republic”—aka, another Taliban, too.

I believe that ANYONE who wants such a total theocratic state, whether Jewish, Moslem or Christian (our current Republicans) is evil, fundamentally evil.  MOST Jews, and most Israeli Jews do NOT want a theocratic state.  Even in America, when Bush was re-elected, it was only 62 million votes out of over 300,000,000—only 1 in 5 Americans actually VOTED for Bush, yet we were stuck with him for 8 years. (And that’s only if you believe the vote wasn’t fixed!)

Think about it.

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By PatrickHenry, February 5, 2010 at 5:39 pm Link to this comment

By ron_woodward, February 4 at 8:13 pm #

Maybe the Americans you know are deluded, however the ones I know do not share in your sweeping generalizations and are well aware of how they are not represented.

As far as the sex ed you attribute to late night porn, try going to bed early so you can get to work or school early. 

I find the rest of your dismal opinion of Americans way off the mark and not indicative of the America I know.

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By Robert, February 5, 2010 at 5:09 pm Link to this comment

February 5 - 7, 2010

40-Year Deception Exposed

Israel Stole $2 Billion From Palestinian Workers


By JONATHAN COOK

in Nazareth.

Over the past four decades Israel has defrauded Palestinians working inside Israel of more than $2 billion by deducting from their salaries contributions for welfare benefits to which they were never entitled, Israeli economists have revealed.

A new report, “State Robbery”, to be published later this month, says the “theft” continued even after the Palestinian Authority was established in 1994 and part of the money was supposed to be transferred to a special fund on behalf of the workers.

According to information supplied by Israeli officials, most of the deductions from the workers’ pay were invested in infrastructure projects in the Palestinian territories—a presumed reference to the massive state subsidies accorded to the settlements.

Nearly 50,000 Palestinians from the West Bank are working in Israel—following the easing of restrictions on entering Israel under the “economic peace” promised by Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister—and continue to have such contributions docked from their pay.

Complicit in the deception, the report adds, is the Histadrut, the Israeli labour federation, which levies a monthly fee on Palestinian workers, even though they are not entitled to membership and are not represented in labour disputes.

“This is a clear-cut case of theft from Palestinian workers on a grand scale,” said Shir Hever, a Jerusalem-based economist and one of the authors of the report. “There are no reasons for Israel to delay in returning this money either to the workers or to their beneficiaries.”

The deductions started being made in 1970, three years after the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories began, when Palestinian workers started to enter Israel in significant numbers, most of them employed as manual labourers in the agriculture and construction industries.

Typically, the workers lose a fifth of their salary in deductions that are supposed to cover old age payments, unemployment allowance, disability insurance, child benefits, trade union fees, pension fund, holiday and sick pay, and health insurance. In practice, however, the workers are entitled only to disability payments in case of work accidents and are insured against loss of work if their employer goes bankrupt.

According to the report, compiled by two human rights groups, the Alternative Information Centre and Kav La’Oved, only a fraction of the total contributions—less than eight per cent—was used to award benefits to Palestinian workers. The rest was secretly transferred to the finance ministry.

The Israeli organisations assess that the workers were defrauded of at least $2.25bn in today’s prices, in what they describe as a minimum and “very conservative” estimate of the misappropriation of the funds. Such a sum represents about 10 per cent of the PA’s annual budget.

The authors also note that they excluded from their calculations two substantial groups of Palestinian workers—those employed in the Jewish settlements and those working in Israel’s black economy—because figures were too hard to obtain.”

~~~~~~~~~~

Click on link for the rest:

http://www.counterpunch.org/cook02052010.html

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By ron_woodward, February 4, 2010 at 12:13 pm Link to this comment

Many Americans share illusions about the USA. They refer to the American Way in similar fashion to the “Why We Fight” propaganda of the Second World War. Every adult can recite about five percent of what he learned from the public schools. The rest of his wisdom evolves around talk on his car radio and the MSM interpretation of Fox News on his home TV. He picks up how he should treat women from late night porn movies.
The majority political faction is the Tea Party. The members agree Obama is a foreign born disciple of Karl Marx who hates white people. Fifty-three percent of them believe Sarah Palin would have been a better President.
Against this back drop it comes as no surprise the USA has lost three preemptive wars while killing 7.2 millions Asians in the bargain. The Americans devote over fifty percent of the Federal budget to slaughter past, present and future.
Based on this experience, the citizens claim they know what’s best for the impoverished masses. The US pundits assert they have the keys to the Kingdom. In the Democratic tradition, the olive branch precedes the iron fist. If the peasants refuse to cheer the MIC, the cartel hegemony and the New World Order, they will disappear in a flash.
I must applaud ITW, who is one of the few on this thread who recognizes the common humanity of Israelis and Palestinians.

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By Robert, February 4, 2010 at 9:57 am Link to this comment

By Shingo, February 4 at 7:50 am #

By PatrickHenry, February 4 at 8:54 am #

******

Shingo, Patrick,


I do remember ITW’s initial start on TD. I remember asking him if he supported Israel’s occupation of the Palestinians.

Two days later, I asked him again, if it were possible for him to answer the above question? ITW, responded that Israel should pull back from the West Bank for a peace settlement.

I then followed up and asked ITW if he meant that Israel should completely pull back to its pre-June 1967 borders for a final peace settlement.

ITW, did not agree to a complete pull back and discussed the Israeli settlements, Jews worshiping at the Wall and Israel’s security…etc…

I do remember pointing out to ITW that Christians & Moslems who lived in Israel, as citizens, pre-1967 conflict were NOT able to worship in the Holy Places in East Jerusalem & Bethlehem…and that it was NOT just Jews who could not go to their Holy Places pre-1967.

Also, to this day, Israel & its brutal IDF prevent Christians & Moslems who live in the West Bank from entering East Jerusalem for their worship/prayers at their Holy Places. This is currently happening NOW ! And has been for several years!

On the other hand, Jewish settlers who live anywhere in the West Bank are NOT prevented at all. They have their own paved roads that Christians & Moslems cannot use and are prevented from using. Jewish settlers living in “For Jews Only Settlements” can be in East Jerusalem from 15 - 30 minutes depending on their location. Palestinian Christian/Moslem/Arab are subject to go through Israel’s Apartheid checkpoints/gates when trying to visit relatives in another village/town in the West Bank. Their journey may take several hours if they are lucky enough to get through the IDF’s deliberate harassment/humiliations.

Arab/Moslem countries agree that Israel has a right to exist in its pre-June 1967 borders for a final peace settlement. East Jerusalem for the Palestinians & West Jerusalem for Israel.

I think and support that Jerusalem “East& West” could be an open city for ALL Holy Places open and easily accessed by All the respective religions. No one should be prevented from going to worship. Everyone should go/follow through the same policy/agreement.

Israel/Israelis know this…that pulling back to the pre-June 1967 borders is a good & feasible solution to the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. So long as the United States does NOT make them pull back, the Israelis are NOT going to do anything. Its all about building more settlements, stealing more land, resources and active ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people…and of course…non-stop active policy of bringing more zionist settlers in from other countries to settle…all paid for by the ole American taxpayers.

Yes, ITW has modified his positions since his initial start on TD, mostly due to so many facts about Apartheid Israel & its IDF killers that have been posted on TD by so many posters over the years.

I condemn the killing/murder of all innocent civilians whether from Iran, Israel and other ME regimes.

The deliberate murder and abuse of children, women and civilians must be stopped and condemned by all people who support basic humanity and equal human rights.

Just imagine if Iran’s army personnel/police went around slapping/abusing Jewish women, shooting/murdering 9 year old Jewish boys/girls from their 20,000-30,000 thousand Jewish citizens…Our American zionist controlled News Media would be flashing “NEWS ALERTS” 7 days per week/24 hours per day. Notice that we don’t hear much and/or anything when Israel’s IDF commit these crimes against defenseless Palestinian women/children…as documented by the IDF confessions which I posted a couple of days ago.

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By PatrickHenry, February 4, 2010 at 4:54 am Link to this comment

By Shingo, February 4 at 11:50 am #

ITW’s position has changed over the years since he first started posting here, after all you can’t defend the indefensible.

The root cause which I see is contained in Israels charter which defines Israel “as a jewish state” or “as a jewish homeland”. 

It is a poison pill which the non-jews in that region refuse to swallow and is often spun as refusing Israels right to exist by jewish PR.

Personally I feel sorry for victims of the aggression over there, the Palestinians bearing the brunt of it. 

I protest this war daily in my decisions of what to buy. 

Boycott Israel.

http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.php/2010/02/02/israeli-occupation-supportive-companies-

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By Shingo, February 4, 2010 at 3:50 am Link to this comment

I must defend Inherit the Wind.

It’s not often you hear a supporter of Israel openly criticise Israeli policies and the occupation.  People like ITW need to be encouraged and applauded for being prepared to accept criticism. 

You can’t expect those who have an affectino for Israel to completely agree with it’s critics.  We should recpognize their humanity.

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By johannes, February 4, 2010 at 3:45 am Link to this comment

To ron-woodward
  Inherit the Wind

Think and than think again, before you write lies.

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By Shingo, February 4, 2010 at 3:10 am Link to this comment

Your ignorance of the conflict is nauseating to behold ron woodward.

Those who beat the drums for war were Israel, who had promised the Palestinians that they woudl visit a Shoah on them.  It is actualyl Israel that has deliberately putting their citizens in harms way, and it was Tzipi Livni who admitted that Israel has always chosen land over peace when she told us that a long ceasfire was not in Israel’s strategic interests.

It’s also irnonic that you should accuse the Palestinians of begging, when Israel receives the bigger welafare cheques in the world from the US.

Operation cast lead as the greatest slaughter in human history, but it was a massacre nonetheless and one that Israel chose to inflict. 

Hamas stuck to a ceasfire with Israel for 4 months, even while Israel went back on teh agreemnt to lift the blockade (which is an act of war).  Israel then vilated the ceasfire on Novermber 4th (the day of the US presidential election so so one would notice) and used the response from Hamas to carry out the massacre they had planned at least 6 months prior.

Then again, perhaps you think the Jews of teh Warsaw Ghetto had no reason to rise up and deserve their fete for not being obedient to their oppressors.

In case you forgot, the last time Israel were blockaded, they were to war over it.  You evidently dont beleve the Palestinians have the same rights.

As the French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner said recentlty, Israel don’t want peace.  Israel wants security, but they have never been prepared to pay the price for peace, becasue there is no peace without justice.

If you need any more assitance alleviating your ignorance, feel free to ask, though given your rabbid rascism, I doubt it help you.

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By ron_woodward, February 4, 2010 at 2:45 am Link to this comment

For some time the Palestinian strategy appears to be starting conflicts and then putting their citizens in harm’s way. They hope enough Palestinians will die horribly to inspire the International community to send aid.
The beggar bowl is out. The propagandists portray operation cast lead as the greatest slaughter in human history.
Those who beat the drum for war have no consideration of the ordinary people involved. Each attack estranges them from the peace process.
With their typical finesse, the bumbling Americans could turn a regional confrontation into nuclear war. A wrong move could transform the globe into an iceball.

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By Shingo, February 3, 2010 at 7:24 pm Link to this comment

Speaking of apartheid,

I found this interesting.

“Ehud Barak, Israel’s defence minister, last night delivered an unusually blunt ­warning to his country that a failure to make peace with the Palestinians would leave either a state with no Jewish ­majority or an “apartheid” regime.”

http://tinyurl.com/yg2p2s7

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By Robert, February 3, 2010 at 7:13 pm Link to this comment

This Time We Went Too Far

By Norman Finkelstein


For the Palestinians who live in the narrow coastal strip of Gaza, the December 2008 Israeli invasion was a nightmare of unimaginable proportions: in the 22-day-long action 1,400 Gazans were killed, several hundred on the first day alone. More than 6,000 homes were destroyed or badly damaged. The cost of the destruction and disruption of economic life, in one of the worlds poorest areas, is estimated at more than $3 billion.

And yet, while nothing should diminish recognition of Palestinian suffering through these frightful days, it is possible something redemptive will emerge from the tragedy of Gaza. For, as Norman Finkelstein details, in a concise work that melds cold anger with cool analysis, the profound injustice of the Israeli assault has been widely recognized by organizations impossible to brand as partial or extremist.

Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and the UN investigation headed by Richard Goldstone, in documenting Israel’s use of indiscriminate and intentional force against the civilian population during the invasion (100 Palestinians died for every one Israeli), have had an impact on traditional support for Israel. Jews in both the United States and the United Kingdom, for instance, are beginning to voice dissent, and this trend is especially apparent among the young.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Click link for the rest & view a short video…Norman Finkelstein:


http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article24580.htm

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By Robert, February 3, 2010 at 7:02 pm Link to this comment

Israeli Commander: ‘We Rewrote the Rules of War for Gaza’


Civilians ‘put at greater risk to save military lives’ in winter attack - revelations that will pile pressure on Netanyahu to set up full inquiry


By Donald Macintyre in Jerusalem


“February 03, 2010 “The Independent”—A high-ranking officer has acknowledged for the first time that the Israeli army went beyond its previous rules of engagement on the protection of civilian lives in order to minimise military casualties during last year’s Gaza war, The Independent can reveal.

The officer, who served as a commander during Operation Cast Lead, made it clear that he did not regard the longstanding principle of military conduct known as “means and intentions” – whereby a targeted suspect must have a weapon and show signs of intending to use it before being fired upon – as being applicable before calling in fire from drones and helicopters in Gaza last winter. A more junior officer who served at a brigade headquarters during the operation described the new policy – devised in part to avoid the heavy military casualties of the 2006 Lebanon war – as one of “literally zero risk to the soldiers”.

The officers’ revelations will pile more pressure on Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to set up an independent inquiry into the war, as demanded in the UN-commissioned Goldstone Report, which harshly criticised the conduct of both Israel and Hamas. One of Israel’s most prominent human rights lawyers, Michael Sfard, said last night that the senior commander’s acknowledgement – if accurate – was “a smoking gun”.

Until now, the testimony has been kept out of the public domain. The senior commander told a journalist compiling a lengthy report for Yedhiot Ahronot, Israel’s biggest daily newspaper, about the rules of engagement in the three-week military offensive in Gaza. But although the article was completed and ready for publication five months ago, it has still not appeared. The senior commander told Yedhiot: “Means and intentions is a definition that suits an arrest operation in the Judaea and Samaria [West Bank] area… We need to be very careful because the IDF [Israel Defence Forces] was already burnt in the second Lebanon war from the wrong terminology. The concept of means and intentions is taken from different circumstances. Here [in Cast Lead] we were not talking about another regular counter-terrorist operation. There is a clear difference.”

His remarks reinforce testimonies from soldiers who served in the Gaza operation, made to the veterans’ group Breaking the Silence and reported exclusively by this newspaper last July. They also appear to cut across the military doctrine – enunciated most recently in public by one of the authors of the IDF’s own code of ethics – that it is the duty of soldiers to run risks to themselves in order to preserve civilian lives.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Click on link for the rest:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article24583.htm

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By Inherit The Wind, February 3, 2010 at 6:34 pm Link to this comment

ROFLMAO!

Getting “educated” by Robert is like learning Global Warming from Neo-cons or Evolution from Pat Robertson!

Maybe you should consult Ann Coulter-geist while you are at it!

Ann’s got one edge on Robert: She actually CREATES her own bullshit rather than borrowing it from someone else.

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By PatrickHenry, February 3, 2010 at 6:09 am Link to this comment

By Inherit The Wind, February 3 at 1:02 pm #

Robert is educating all of us (not boiler room posters as yourself) on Israel and the jews who support it by giving examples of their nazi like brutality which occurs on a day to day basis.

My tax dollars don’t support Iran but they do go to Israel against my will so I do have a dog in that fight against jewish assholes (redundant) such as yourself.

If you read your own posts, I think you would find many of the moronic accusations you blame others of, logic and facts lacking.

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By Inherit The Wind, February 3, 2010 at 5:02 am Link to this comment

Yeah, PH—and you are defending Mel Gibson’s anti-semitism, too.

You have no credibility on ANY issue involving Israel or Jews.  Your bias and hatred is out there and well-documented.

And you’re not too bright.  Shingo knows FAR better than you that piles of moronic insults (which is your definition of “argument”) that you and Robert like to lay on me means NOTHING and proves nothing.

Logic and facts and close reasoning aren’t “velvet gloves”.  They are the REAL weapons of sound minds.  You are just incapable of understanding that. Shingo isn’t.

Meanwhile, Robert is on his usual back-page thread-killing flood of OTHER people’s articles.  Hey! Robert! Didja notice that Iran EXECUTED two young guys SOLELY for protesting, and that the religious clergy there called for MORE executions of dissidents?  I guess THAT is what is meant by “Freedom” and “Justice” in the Robert Book of Hypocritical Morality.

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By Robert, February 2, 2010 at 7:53 pm Link to this comment

TODAY IN OCCUPIED EAST JERUSALEM

February 2, 2010

“Snow is predicted in Jerusalem on Thursday…. Evicted families in Sheikh Jarrah who were living in tents outside of THEIR homes are now living on the street. Hopefully the situation will change later today…..


Sheikh Jarrah, East Jerusalem – At 4PM in a showing of solidarity with the forcefully evicted families of Sheikh Jarrah, Israeli, Palestinian and international supporters will gather to rebuild the Gawi family tent after it was demolished by police earlier today.

At 9AM police raided and removed the living space of the Gawi family in Sheikh Jarrah, East Jerusalem. Local residents scrambled to remove personal belongings before police confiscated the Gawi tent where the family has been living since their forceful eviction in August of last year.

This is the 12th demolition of the Gawi living space. Previous demolitions have occurred as tension in the neighborhood builds and settler vs. Palestinian conflict occurs. This demolition is no different. On Sunday, January 31st one settler and Nasser Gawi were suspended from entering the neighborhood for 15 days after an altercation.

The settler exited the occupied Gawi house with an M-16 and physically attacked a neighborhood child. As residents stepped in to defend the child, the settler punched Nasser Gawi and after Nasser returned blows the settler cocked his assault rifle, pointing it wildly at the gathered crowd. The weapon was confiscated and both were detained.

Press is invited to today’s tent re-building.


Background on Sheikh Jarrah

Approximately 475 Palestinian residents living in the Karm Al-Ja’ouni neighborhood of Sheikh Jarrah, located directly north of the Old City, face imminent eviction from their homes in the manner of the Hannoun and Gawi families, and the al-Kurd family before them. All 28 families are refugees from 1948, mostly from West Jerusalem and Haifa, whose houses in Sheikh Jarrah were built and given to them through a joint project between the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) and the Jordanian government in 1956.

So far, settlers took over houses of four Palestinian families, displacing around 60 residents, including 20 children. At present, settlers occupy all these houses and the whole area is patrolled by armed private security 24 hours a day. The evicted Palestinian families, some of whom have been left without suitable alternative accommodation since August, continue to protest against the unlawful eviction from the sidewalk across the street from their homes, facing regular violent attacks from the settlers and harassment from the police.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Click on link to view a very short video of an Israeli settler attacking a Palestinian crowd with a cocked M-16 rifle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_noYAfW7dm4

Link from desertpeace:


http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/today-in-occupied-east-jerusalem/

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By PatrickHenry, February 2, 2010 at 7:22 pm Link to this comment

By Inherit The Wind, February 2 at 10:11 pm #

The fact was Shingo was treating you with velvet gloves from this vantage point and his was the only logic.  Something you are not well aquainted with when discussing Israel and its criminality.

And yes it is a game of us versus them when dealing with the persistant semitic hatred you embue in your posts.

I see no upside with Americas relationship with Israel and alot of downside.  If you feel so strongly you should immigrate and serve on the front lines of the comming war against hezbollah, they arn’t the rock throwing peasents the IDF is accustomed to bullying.

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By Inherit The Wind, February 2, 2010 at 6:11 pm Link to this comment

Don’t worry, Robert—I can’t “assassinate” what you don’t have.

Unlike you, PH, I ACKNOWLEDGE a sound argument that makes good points that must be addressed.  Shingo didn’t “hold my hand”—he used facts and logic.  That’s something neither you nor Robert understand because to you it’s a football game where it’s “our guys” against “THEM!” (who are somehow inherently evil).

You have no capability of argument either, just your persistent anti-semitic hatred.

Johannes: I cannot wonder if you simply have English comprehension issues.  Your positions are just too bizarre otherwise.

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By johannes, February 2, 2010 at 8:04 am Link to this comment

ONCE MORE FORTHE RECORD,

Its as you write, the programme is pushing of topic,  labeling, and shut up.


Salutation, Johannes

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By Robert, February 2, 2010 at 7:06 am Link to this comment

By PatrickHenry, February 2 at 8:41 am #


“By Inherit The Wind, February 2 at 8:10 am #

Whats to address?

Shingo cleaned your clock in debate while holding your hand, which was very obvious. 

I guess he didn’t want to be victim of one of your name calling rants.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

PatrickHenry

ONCE MORE FOR THE RECORD


The Ole Zionist’s/ADL tactics are familiar to many of the informed in the US and elsewhere.

Zionists/ADL use these familiar tactics to attempt to quiet anyone who helps expose their subversive Zionist “Hasbara/propaganda”.


If that person is a gentile, they cry, “anti-semetic and/or Nazi, Israel/Jew haters” which is nothing more than a smoke screen to hide their “propaganda/damage control” deceptions.

Then they ignore the charges, hoping the information will not be given widespread distribution.

If the information/facts starts to reach too many people, they ridicule the information/facts and the person(s) giving the information.

If that doesn’t work, their next step is character assassination.


Zionists/ADL staff, almost NEVER try to prove the information wrong!


Yes…these deceptive zionist’s worn out methods are very much familiar here on TD and elsewhere on ADL’s agenda/arena.


One can see right through their programmed ways…DECEPTIVE SIDETRACKING, DIVERSIONS, ATTEPMTS AT CHANGING THE TOPIC…PR/DAMAGE CONTROL.

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By PatrickHenry, February 2, 2010 at 4:41 am Link to this comment

By Inherit The Wind, February 2 at 8:10 am #

Whats to address?

Shingo cleaned your clock in debate while holding your hand, which was very obvious. 

I guess he didn’t want to be victim of one of your name calling rants.

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By johannes, February 2, 2010 at 4:37 am Link to this comment

To Inherit the Wind,

Yes there you are standing with your mouth full teeth, wath to say, all the facts that Robert is coming with.

I know people who live in Goa ” india ” they some time see and have contact with young Israelie soldiers, who are living in an camp ” heavy garded “, using lots of drugs and with mostley psychopathic behaviour, do you think Jews are no human.

Think and be realistic, not every body is your enemy,
their is no problem with the Jewish citizen but with the evil and malicious Jews, who are mentally ill.


Salutation.

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By Inherit The Wind, February 2, 2010 at 4:10 am Link to this comment

So, rather than address my questions or even responses to Shingo, the three revert to their usual tactics.  Patrick Henry makes wise cracks…Ok, that’s no big deal.
Diamond lies about my position and exaggerates it at the same time and takes a phony moral stance (no, I do NOT defend atrocities.  But I challenge as invalid what YOU define as an “atrocity” which consists of ANY action taken by the IDF, without exception.

And Robert responds with his usual method of trying to drown a thread in a flood of biased articles, frequently opinion pieces that he passes off as “reporting”, because he hasn’t had an original thought in his head in the years I’ve seen his posts. 

Time to move along. Nothing to see here you haven’t seen many times before.

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By Robert, February 1, 2010 at 7:41 pm Link to this comment

Female soldiers break their silence

01.29.2010 | YNet

“Six years after first collection of Breaking the Silence testimonies, organization releases booklet of testimonies from female soldiers who served in territories. Stories include systematic humiliation of Palestinians, reckless and cruel violence, theft, killing of innocent people and cover-up. Here are only some of testimonies”:

Amir Shilo

Published: 01.29.10, 15:47 / Israel News


“Even small children did not escape arbitrary acts of violence, said a Border Guard female officer serving near the separation fence: “We caught a five-year-old…can’t remember what he did…we were taking him back to the territories or something, and the officers just picked him up, slapped him around and put him in the jeep. The kid was crying and the officer next to me said ‘don’t cry’ and started laughing at him. Finally the kid cracked a smile – and suddenly the officer gave him a punch in the stomach. Why? ‘Don’t laugh in my face’ he said.””


““Crossing the checkpoint, it’s like another world… Palestinians walk with trolleys on the side of the road, with wagons, donkeys… so the Border Guards take a truck with the remains of food and start throwing it at them… cottage cheese, rotten vegetables… it was the most appalling thing I experienced in the territories.””

9-year-old shot to death

“Other testimonies raise concerns as to the procedures of opening fire in the territories, particularly crowd control weapons. A female Border Guard detailed to protocol she called “dismantling rubber” – the dismantling of rubber bullets from clusters of three to single bullets, and peeling the rubber off of them. She also said that, despite the clear orders to fire in the air or at the demonstrators’ feet, it was common procedure to fire at the abdomen.

A female Border Guard officer in Jenin spoke of an incident in which a nine-year-old Palestinian, who tried to climb the fence, failed, and fled – was shot to death: “They fired… when he was already in the territories and posed no danger. The hit was in the abdomen area, they claimed he was on a bicycle and so they were unable to hit him in the legs.”

But the soldier was most bewildered by what happened next between the four soldiers present:

“They immediately got their stories straight… An investigation was carried out, at first they said it was an unjustified killing… In the end they claimed that he was checking out escape routes for terrorists or something… and they closed the case.””

Was there also abuse of women?

“Yes” the same soldier replied. “Slaps, that kind of thing. Mainly slaps.”

From men?

”“Also. From whoever. It was mainly the female combat soldiers who beat people. There were two who really liked to beat people up. But also men, they had no problem slapping a woman around. If she screamed, they’d say, ‘Shut it,’ with another slap. A routine of violence. There were also those who didn’t take part, but everyone knew it happened.””

~~~~~~~~~~~

Click on link for the rest on Israel’s IDF, nazi-zionist child killers & who like to beat up on defenseless Palestinian women & children. The brutal violence goes on everyday:


http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/such-a-nice-jewish-girl/

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By diamond, February 1, 2010 at 7:29 pm Link to this comment

Yes, ITW they are my words and I’m proud of them. I’ll always stand up for human beings of any race, colour or creed when they are being subjected to genocide and ethnic cleansing on account of their religion, race or ethnicity. If the Jews were walled up in a ghetto being slowly destroyed do you think I’d be silent? But that is not the case. The fact is, the Palestinians have always been in the way of Israel’s demolition squads, bulldozers and its plan to steal their land, houses and businesses. To defend such actions is immoral and makes you a lesser human being. Until Israel has consequences such as being censured in the UN, has its products banned internationally,is banned from participating in international sport or is made to pay the costs of its destruction of Lebanon or Gaza why should Israel stop its campaign to destroy the people of Gaza and the people of Lebanon? And you are defending them, so you are part of their crimes.

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By PatrickHenry, February 1, 2010 at 7:11 pm Link to this comment

(n)ITW(it),

Be sure to check under your bed tonight for the jew haters, you know, those who could care less about you.

And you call yourself “reasonable”.

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By Inherit The Wind, February 1, 2010 at 6:27 pm Link to this comment

diamond, January 31 at 6:59 pm #

Yes, ITW I can see what a threat someone like Robert, who deals in actual facts instead of emotional hyperbole which is your stock in trade, must be to you. It’s the old trick of using emotion to drown out reason. Bush and Cheney did it for years and the mainstream media does it as a matter of course. Information and facts come off second best to emotional misinformation and fear mongering. Israel has behaved with appalling inhumanity for years and never been held to account and you support them. You should ask yourself why. No one claims the Muslim states are perfect but you can’t simply act like Pavlov’s dog and salivate when a bell rings, meaning someone criticizes Israel therefore I attack them. You have to look at the facts and condemn inhumanity, genocide and ethnic cleansing wherever it occurs. And I do.
*************************************************

These are your words, Diamond, not mine. I didn’t make them up and put them in your mouth.

Robert has never dealt in facts. He is a totally biased “reporter” who conveniently ignores contradictory evidence, all the time, every time.

You can’t give “moral high ground” to any of the Arab nations as they engage in every inequity and atrocity that Israel is accused of.

Shingo, to his credit, makes a debatable case.  DEBATABLE: That means reasonable people can discuss it, agree with it, or disagree with it, can introduce facts and/or analysis to support their position.  That’s where Shingo differs from Robert, Diamond and Patrick Henry (whose out-and-out hatred of Jews is well-documented in other threads).

I may not agree with Shingo, but I can respect him.  I have no respect for the three others.  (Not that any of you care, but I thought I’d point it out.)

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By Night-Gaunt, February 1, 2010 at 1:11 pm Link to this comment

Jerusalem should be an open city that all three of the religions can go to. They can call it a capital of theirs too if they want. But it must remain open. That is my idea for it.

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By johannes, February 1, 2010 at 7:12 am Link to this comment

To Robert,

The facts are speaking for them selfs, and not in favour of the Zionist governement in Israel.

Some people act as a jamming station, they push you of topic, and hang a label ouround your neck of Anti-Semiet if you criticize Israel.

Salutation, Johannes

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By PatrickHenry, February 1, 2010 at 6:10 am Link to this comment

“ITW you’re putting words in my mouth”

Now there’s a statement that those who post here regularly cannot debate.

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By diamond, January 31, 2010 at 9:36 pm Link to this comment

ITW you’re putting words in my mouth: I never said any such thing, nor do I believe that Israel should be destroyed or thrown out but can you honestly tell me that is not Israel’s intention in both cases towards the people of Gaza? Israel has no legal right to the land it occupies, that is true, (unless you believe that Britain and America have some divine right to hand land over to people) but there is such a thing as a moral right. However to have a moral right to anything you must act morally and Israel has not- for it’s entire 60 year history. Israel has no legal case for occupying the land it occupies and the settlers usually resort to the Old Testament to legitimize their over the top claims to divine sanction for their horrible actions against the Palestinians. I can only say that any God that approves of burning babies and shooting twelve year old boys and starving an entire population is not a God I would obey. The biggest threat to world peace is nuclear armed America and America stands behind nuclear armed Israel and refuses even to let Israel be censured in the United Nations for its crimes against humanity. It’s a bully boys’ club and you can’t have it both ways: when you defend Israel you condone its behaviour and you need to face that fact and stop pretending you disapprove of Netanyahu while defending the state fascists like him have created.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 31, 2010 at 9:06 pm Link to this comment

Shingo addresses the issues. Robert and Diamond ignore them to heap more abuse.  As always.

Shingo HAS broken the issue down nicely. Israel, West Bank, East Jerusalem, and, you omit Gaza.

I’d like to see Israel out of the West Bank, it’s out of Gaza, but East Jerusalem is not so simple.

From 1948 to 1967, no Jew could get to the holiest place in Judaism—the Western Wall.  You cannot expect the Wall to be given up and locked off to them.  That would be like locking off Mecca to Moslems.  Yet, under Israel’s rule for the last 43 years, Moslems have NOT been barred from the Dome of the Rock.

I don’t have a good handle on the issue of Jerusalem, but I do know one thing: If that alon keeps both people at war than BOTH sides are doing something wrong.

I suspect Tom Clancy was on the brink of a good idea when he proposed that, of all things, the Vatican control East Jerusalem under the control of the Swiss Guards.  I don’t say that’s the answer, but it may well be the germ of an idea.

But if BOTH sides insist the ONLY answer for which they will have peace is total ethnic cleansing of the other side, anyone with a modicum of brain power can see that’s doomed to failure.  (I’m sure Robert and Diamond are therefore in favor of ethnic cleansing of the East Jerusalem of all Jews).

But if you say “Look! Israel is treating dissidents badly. Aren’t they terrible? Yet another reason to end the State of Israel and give it back to the Arabs!” but consistently deny the other side doing the same thing, your moral argument is BS, merely “My team are heroes, your team are villains” that any fan sees at a football game.  Meaningless posturing.

Of course, that describes Robert and Diamond perfectly.

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By Robert, January 31, 2010 at 4:46 pm Link to this comment

In the West Bank’s stony hills, Palestine is slowly dying

In the richest of the Occupied lands, Israeli bureaucracy is driving Palestinians out of their homes. Robert Fisk reports from Jiftlik

By Robert Fisk

“January 30, 2010 “The Independent” - -Area C doesn’t sound very ominous. A land of stone-sprinkled grey hills and soft green valleys, it’s part of the wreckage of the equally wrecked Oslo Agreement, accounting for 60 per cent of the Israeli-occupied West Bank that was eventually supposed to be handed over to its Palestinian inhabitants.

But look at the statistics and leaf through the pile of demolition orders lying on the table in front of Abed Kasab, head of the village council in Jiftlik, and it all looks like ethnic cleansing via bureaucracy. Perverse might be the word for the paperwork involved. Obscene appear to be the results.

Palestinian houses that cannot be permitted to stand, roofs that must be taken down, wells closed, sewage systems demolished; in one village, I even saw a primitive electricity system in which Palestinians must sink their electrical poles cemented into concrete blocks standing on the surface of the dirt road. To place the poles in the earth would ensure their destruction – no Palestinian can dig a hole more than 40cm below the ground.

But let’s return to the bureaucracy. “Ro’i” – if that is indeed the Israeli official’s name, for it is difficult to decipher – signed a batch of demolition papers for Jiftlik last December, all duly delivered, in Arabic and Hebrew, to Mr Kasab. There are 21 of them, running – non-sequentially – from numbers 143912 through 145059, all from “The High Planning Council Monitoring [sic] Sub-Committee of the Civil Administration for the Area of Judea and Samaria”. Judea and Samaria – for ordinary folk – is the occupied West Bank. The first communication is dated 8 December, 2009, the last 17 December.”

~~~~~~~~~~

Click on link for the rest of Robert Fisk’s article:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article24542.htm

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By Robert, January 31, 2010 at 4:14 pm Link to this comment

By diamond, January 31 at 6:59 pm #

“Yes, ITW I can see what a threat someone like Robert, who deals in actual facts instead of emotional hyperbole which is your stock in trade, must be to you. It’s the old trick of using emotion to drown out reason.”

~~~~~~~~~~~

diamond,


The Ole Zionist’s/ADL tactics are familiar to many of the informed in the US and elsewhere.

Zionists/ADL use these familiar tactics to attempt to quiet anyone who helps expose their subversive Zionist “Hasbara/propaganda”.


If that person is a gentile, they cry, “anti-semetic and/or Nazi, Israel/Jew haters” which is nothing more than a smoke screen to hide their “propaganda/damage control” deceptions.

Then they ignore the charges, hoping the information will not be given widespread distribution.

If the information/facts starts to reach too many people, they ridicule the information/facts and the person(s) giving the information.

If that doesn’t work, their next step is character assassination.


Yes…these deceptive zionist’s worn out methods are very much familiar here on TD and elsewhere on ADL’s agenda/arena.

THAT DULL ADL MEGA-PHONE IS DROWNING IN ITS OWN STENCH!

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By Shingo, January 31, 2010 at 3:50 pm Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind,

In so many ways, we are on the same page, but what divides us is your emotional attachment to Israel.

I respect your views on the Israel you would like to see, and share your goals. 

I also agree with you views about right of return to some extent, though I fail to see how you can allow parents to return and not the immediate families.It’s poisoned pill otherwise.

There are 3 issues at stake here.  Israel proper (as per the 1967 borders), the West Bank and East Jerusalem.  Israel has every right to decide who does and does not enter Israel, but they have no right to East Jersualem, even though they are claiming it.  There’s very little Arab land inside Israel left to steal.

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By diamond, January 31, 2010 at 2:59 pm Link to this comment

Yes, ITW I can see what a threat someone like Robert, who deals in actual facts instead of emotional hyperbole which is your stock in trade, must be to you. It’s the old trick of using emotion to drown out reason. Bush and Cheney did it for years and the mainstream media does it as a matter of course. Information and facts come off second best to emotional misinformation and fear mongering. Israel has behaved with appalling inhumanity for years and never been held to account and you support them. You should ask yourself why. No one claims the Muslim states are perfect but you can’t simply act like Pavlov’s dog and salivate when a bell rings, meaning someone criticizes Israel therefore I attack them. You have to look at the facts and condemn inhumanity, genocide and ethnic cleansing wherever it occurs. And I do.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 31, 2010 at 2:47 pm Link to this comment

Still applying a different set of standards to the Moslem world than to Israel, guys?

Never gonna change, are you?  You both detest Jews so much there’s NOTHING you can’t justify to destroy Israel.  The Ends Justify The Means.

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By Robert, January 31, 2010 at 8:56 am Link to this comment

January 26, 2010

West Bank Campus Plans to Double in Size

Israel’s “Army-Owned” University

By JONATHAN COOK

in Nazareth.

Ehud Barak, Israel’s defence minister, approved last week the upgrading to university status of a college in a settlement located deep inside the West Bank, a move certain to further undermine Palestinian confidence in the peace process.

The decision, authorising the first Israeli university in Palestinian territory, is expected to entitle the college to significant extra funding, allowing it to expand its student population.

About 11,000 students, most from inside Israel, already attend the college in Ariel, studying amid a population of 18,000 settlers.

The expansion of Ariel, 20km inside the West Bank and close to Nablus, is likely to increase tensions with the US administration of Barack Obama. The White House has demanded a settlement freeze that is being only temporarily and partially honoured by Israel.

The United States and Israel have repeatedly clashed over Israeli plans to extend its separation wall east of Ariel, effectively annexing the settlement and separating the central and northern parts of the West Bank.

Peace groups have been particularly shocked that authorisation for Ariel college’s upgrade came from Mr Barak, leader of the Labor Party. Members of his centre-left faction had previously blocked attempts by right-wing parties to change the college’s status.

Several Israeli academics also warned that it would add fuel to existing campaigns in Europe to boycott Israeli universities, which have been accused of complicity with the occupation.

“This is all about trying to make the settlement of Ariel ‘kosher’,” said Yariv Oppenheimer, head of the Peace Now, an Israeli group that monitors settlement growth. “It helps to reinforce the growing consensus in Israel that Ariel should remain part of Israel permanently.”


~~~~~~~~~

Click on link for the rest:

http://www.counterpunch.org/cook01262010.html

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By PatrickHenry, January 31, 2010 at 8:49 am Link to this comment

ITW,

You have long agreed with the the terms “the Jewish state” and “homeland of the Jewish people” being used to describe Israel.

I have seen you then argue for “one man one vote” and “all Israelis are equal” in other arguements.

These viewponts are in serious contradiction with each other.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 31, 2010 at 4:48 am Link to this comment

Of course, Robert only cites injustices (either real or imagined) that occur in Israel. 

Notice that he makes NO mention of the dissidents being executed in Iran for daring to oppose the rigged election of Ahmedinejad.

Notice that Ahmedinejad is arresting more of those who organized protests to the his election.  Even George W. Bush didn’t dare arrest Al Gore and the people who supported the effort to prevent Bush’s theft of the Presidency.

Naturally, on this, Robert is silent as a tomb.  At least he’s consistent in his hypocrisy. If Israel does it, it’s bad, evil, worthy of condemnation.  I don’t defend the Israeli government violating its own laws.

But according to Robert:
If Iran does it, it’s OK. 
If Hezbollah does it, it’s OK.
Any violation of human rights by an Arab nation is OK with Robert—or he’ll come up with some cheap citation that “proves” the violation never happened.  Right. We’re supposed to believe that all the nations in the Middle East are freedom loving democracies—except Israel.

As I said: consistent in his hypocrisy.

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By Robert, January 30, 2010 at 10:46 am Link to this comment

January 28, 2010

Distorting the Basic Law

Apartheid at the Israeli High Court

By URI WEISS

In 1992 the Knesset enacted Basic Law: Human Dignity and Liberty. This basic law speaks clearly about human dignity. It states explicitly: “All persons are entitled to protection of their life, body and dignity”. And let it be emphasized: all persons, not just citizens, not just residents, and not just Jewish persons. However, Judge Aharon Barak’s Supreme Court (sitting as the HCJ) has ruled that the law is applicable to Jewish settlers in the territories, but the question of whether it is applicable to their Palestinian neighbors has been left as “pending decision”, i.e. an open question about which the need to decide has not yet arisen.

This ruling is crude legal activism by the HCJ, distorting the words of the basic law enacted by the Knesset, turning it into an Apartheid law. More precisely, this is Apartheid common constitutional law.

Since then, the Israeli Supreme Court has added two building blocks to the edifice of Apartheid. The first one is the ruling which recognized “Bank-Hamizrachi’s” constitutional property right in a house built in the Gaza strip. Thus, the HCJ actually decided that a Jewish corporation in the occupied territories is entitled to constitutional rights stemming from the Basic Law, but the question whether a Palestinian person in this area is entitled to those rights has been left open. The second building block was laid by the Ga’abith ruling, which addressed the question whether a Palestinian man residing in Israel as the spouse of an Israeli resident has the right of hearing, after the state decides to deport him for security reasons. The state argued that the Palestinian man had no such right, since he had no legal status in Israel. Judge Elyakim Rubinstein recognized the Palestinian man’s right of hearing, since this right is supposed to be granted to every person. However, lo and behold, the view of this judge who represents the religious right wing remained a minority view! The seemingly liberal judges, Dorit Beinish and Hanan Meltzer, ruled that the Palestinian man’s right could be derived from the right granted to his Israeli spouse, and subsequently left open the crucial question whether he himself has that right independently.

By doing so, the HCJ has completed the edifice of Apartheid which it had been building. Basic Law: Human Dignity and Liberty is not applicable to all those who are regarded as human beings by a humanist attitude. Neither are the boundaries of its jurisdiction geographic, like the green line. Instead, they are substantively ethnic. A Jewish settler will be protected by the basic law - both in the territories and in Israel. Her Palestinian neighbor’s rights, which should follow from the basic law, either inside Israel or in the occupied territories, have yet to be decided.

~~~~~~~~~

Click on link for the rest of article:

{”Uri Weiss is a PHD law student at the Hebrew University, Jerusalem.”}

http://www.counterpunch.org/weiss01282010.html

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By Inherit The Wind, January 28, 2010 at 7:14 pm Link to this comment

Shingo:
If you go back and read your last post you will realize that you and I are far closer than you realize.

We both abhor the growing treatment of non-Jewish Israelis, who SHOULD, under Israeli law, be fully equal citizens.

We both agree that Israel’s neighbors are racist as well. Our own experience in the US is that blatantly racist laws in the South were ultimately easier to get rid of than the insidious behavioral racism in the North.  The change in South Africa indicates this as well.  Therefore it is clearly easiER (not easy) to get Israel to overcome its racism than its neighbors, who won’t admit their racism.

While we can argue from today until next week whether those who left in 1948 were forced out or chose to go, I actually wonder if they were allowed to return whether it would make a difference.

However, notice that I ONLY wonder about those who left, not their children, grandchildren or great-grandchildren, who, IMHO have NO claim to Israeli citizenship.

I don’t know if any of the surrounding states will allow Arabs born abroad to immigrate.  But I do know your statement presupposes that ANY Jew coming to Israel is automatically doing it on the theft of Arab land, and I dispute that. 

I do make the exception for the immigrants moving to the illegal settlements in the West Bank—they are illegal and should either be a) evacuated or b) acknowledged to be under the jurisdiction of the Palestinian state—IOW, the Jews in the settlements will NOT be living in Israel or under Israeli protection, nor have any rights greater than the citizenry of Palestine.

Thanks for recognizing that if both the Israelis and their neighbors saw things the way I do, they would ALL be better off!  I am highly critical of the Israeli government and deeply disappointed in how that nation has moved so far to the right, catering to religious fanatics.  Then again, I’m deeply disappointed about the same movement in the USA…..

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By Shingo, January 28, 2010 at 5:30 am Link to this comment

ITW,

There’s nothing OK about racism, however, none of the states to which you refer make the claim that racist policies are a) their right and b) necessary for their creation.  Furthermore, none of the states to which you refer claim to be bastions of democracy, or lights unto the world, or for that matter, accuse their critics of being racist for not supporting their apartheid policies.

Mandela wasn’t always a special man, he became one.  You would have to agree that greatness is found in all societies.

Whether Verwoerd was a Nazi sympathizer and an anti-semitic is beside the point.  His comments about Israel were not a criticism of Israel, but amazingly, a tribute to their policies.

I know where you stand ITW, and I have to admit that when I am critical of Israel on this blog, I am mindful of the offence you may take, but be certain that none of my comments are directed at you.  Like I said before, the Middle East would be a different place, and Israel better for it, if your ideas were adopted widely in Israel.

We’re not talking about immigration here ITW, and you know it.  We’re talking about the people who live in Israel, who were there before Israel was created, and who have lived under occupation and siege.  If Israel were to deny non Jews entry to Israel, that is their business. 

Whether Hezbollah and the other neighbours of Israel are racist doesn’t change the fact that Israel is not only racist, but prides itself on this belief.  I mean, how many of those states grant Arabs born in the UK the right to migrate at the expense of those that have lived there for centuries?

Christ, even Israel’s Immigrant Absorption Minister Sofa Landver states quite frankly that Israel is a very racist society.  I guess, she deserves credit for her honesty.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 28, 2010 at 5:11 am Link to this comment

Shingo:

Please tell me why a blatantly racist state is “ok” but an apartheid state is NOT “ok”.  I fail to see the moral superiority of the non-apartheid racist state.

I hope you are right that these people you listed are possible Mandelas and not just more Mugabes.

BTW, having recently been to South Africa, it’s clear they are still dealing with racism, but not just Whites over other colors, but from the other direction as well.

Zimbabwe is now, unbelievably, a far more racist state under Mugabe than it was under Ian Smith.

Verwoerd was a Nazi sympathizer, highly anti-semitic, and probably a traitor during WWII. He was narrow-minded and actually believed it was GOOD for all the races in S/A to practice “separateness”.  I don’t put much stock in HIS interpretation of Israel.

Let’s be clear: I have frequently and fervently said that Israel must NOT treat its non-Jewish citizens as 2nd class citizens.  And whatsizname—that Russian monster in Netanyahu’s cabinet who wants loyalty oaths and expulsion of native-born Israelis who are Palestinian is, yes, an Apartheidist and evil.

But that’s not the same as saying it must ADMIT anyone willy-nilly.  No nation does that.  In fact, if you look at the American immigration quota system, it’s totally racist, as are most nations.

Example: A colleague is Canadian. But he cannot get a Green Card as a Canadian, but only in the much longer line as an Indian, because he emigrated to Canada from his native India.  To the USA, he’s not Canadian, but Indian.  Totally a racist choice.  Fully legal and not appealable.

My point: you keep coming back to a trying to make a non-moral choice look like a moral one.  You can’t make Israel’s neighbors look any less racist and intolerant than the WORST elements in Israel.  Hezbollah FULLY is no different than the Ultra-Orthodox extremists in Israel, who ARE racist and apartheidist.  But so is Hezbollah.

You gotta deal with that.

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By Shingo, January 27, 2010 at 10:40 pm Link to this comment

Yes ITW,

It is true that Israel’s neighbors are as racist as Israel, but none of them has an apartheid policy as the foundation it’s very fabric.

There are numerous potential Nelson Mandelas, namely, Mustafa Barghouti, but as was the case with Mandela, he too is in an Israeli prison.  Israel will never allow a strong leader to rise because their stratergy is to divide the Palestinians.

For example, in 2006, Hamas and Fatah weer scheduled to hold unity talks.  Washington and avid strong armed Abbas into pulling out of the talks, the ordered him to carryout a coup to overthrow Hamas, which failed.

This was reported by Vanity Fair in a report entitled, the Gaza Bombshell.  Google it.

Speaking of Mandella, he himself described Israel as an apartheid state, as did Desmond Tutu.

Last but not least, here is something to consider:

Back in 1961, a South African who emphatically stated that “The Jews took Israel from the Arabs after the Arabs had lived there for a thousand years. Israel like South Africa, is an apartheid state” (Rand Daily Mail, 23 Novemeber 1961).

Those were not the words of Mandela, Tutu or Ruth First, but were uttered by none other than the architect of apartheid itself, racist Prime Minister, Dr. Hendrik Verwoerd.

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By Tom, January 27, 2010 at 9:59 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

@Inherit The Wind

You’re talking about bigots? are you serious? Israel is the only country that is engaged in ethnically cleansing a whole civilization.

Take your racism toward arabs to the Jpost and other criminal newspapers.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 27, 2010 at 9:55 pm Link to this comment

Tom, January 27 at 3:57 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Israel is an apartheid state and should be treated as such. Expecting Israel to behave herself is unrealistic. This country was founded by terrorists and outlaws to begin.

International community should REJECT Israel’s state terrorism. This country has violated more international laws that all UN members COMBINED!

Only global boycott, divestment and sanctions work. It worked in South Africa it WILL work in Israel too.
******************************************

Your bigoted analogies are typical.  All of Israel’s neighbors are EASILY as racist as you claim Israel is.  All of them.

And where, in your analogy, is the Palestinian “Nelson Mandela”, without whom South Africa today would be the same as Zimbabwe?

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By jerrygates, January 27, 2010 at 2:02 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I have a cute little squirril named Howard. He seems fine, but I’m worried about our Howard, Did I get that right, Howie, Was that Isreal never started a war? Where do you live, brother, Israel? Try some foreign news, dude, it helps to broaden ones horizens.

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By Tom, January 27, 2010 at 11:57 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Israel is an apartheid state and should be treated as such. Expecting Israel to behave herself is unrealistic. This country was founded by terrorists and outlaws to begin.

International community should REJECT Israel’s state terrorism. This country has violated more international laws that all UN members COMBINED!

Only global boycott, divestment and sanctions work. It worked in South Africa it WILL work in Israel too.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 25, 2010 at 8:57 pm Link to this comment

PatrickHenry, January 25 at 11:28 pm #

By Inherit The Wind, January 25 at 11:13 pm #

I doubt the Iranians will lift a finger against Israel, contrary to what Howards post would suggest.
**************************************************

I actually agree with that. I think they are all bluster and wind and don’t need to be taken seriously.                 

**************************************************
How do you make it through each day being such a victim?
**************************************************

What doesn’t kill me makes me stronger. 

I often wonder what it’s like to go through the world knowing you are the majority and no one dares touch you.

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By Robert, January 25, 2010 at 8:50 pm Link to this comment

Auschwitz survivor: ‘Israel acts like Nazis’

Published on 24 Jan 2010

“One of the last remaining Auschwitz survivors has launched a blistering attack on Israel over its occupation of Palestine as he began a lecture tour of Scotland.”

“Dr Hajo Meyer, 86, who survived 10 months in the Nazi death camp, spoke out as his 10-day tour of the UK and Ireland – taking in three Scottish venues – got under way. His comments sparked a furious reaction from hardline Jewish lobby groups, with Dr Meyer branded an “anti-Semite” and accused of abusing his position as a Holocaust survivor”.


Speaking as his tour got under way, “Dr Meyer said there were parallels between the treatment of Jews by Germans in the Second World War and the current treatment of Palestinians by Israelis.”

He said: “The Israelis tried to dehumanise the Palestinians, just like the Nazis tried to dehumanise me. Nobody should dehumanise any other and those who try to dehumanise another are not human.


“It may be that Israel is not the most cruel country in the world … but one thing I know for sure is that Israel is the world champion in pretending to be civilised and cultured.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Click on link for details:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/politics/auschwitz-survivor-israel-acts-like-nazis-1.1000918

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By PatrickHenry, January 25, 2010 at 7:28 pm Link to this comment

By Inherit The Wind, January 25 at 11:13 pm #

I doubt the Iranians will lift a finger against Israel, contrary to what Howards post would suggest.

How do you make it through each day being such a victim?

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By Inherit The Wind, January 25, 2010 at 7:13 pm Link to this comment

PatrickHenry, January 25 at 9:35 pm #

By Howard, January 25 at 9:33 pm #

Remember they threatened to eliminate Israel.

Would that be such a bad thing?  It would save the U.S. three billion year and future defense outlays.

I’m for cutting the cost of government, lets start here.

Not a week goes by without some sort of threat by Israel against Iran, even threats insinuating potential nuclear attack.

Sounds like offsetting BS to me.
*******************************************

Yup. That’s just what you want. Kill another 5 million Jews out of the 14 million left, leaving only 9 million.

Why don’t you have it in for the Gypsies as well?  And maybe we can get rid of those evil Kurds in the north of Iraq.  And maybe we can wipe out those non-Arab Sudanese, helping Bashir along with his genocide.

It’s just so easy to call for the extermination of millions of distant people, isn’t it?

And tell us yet again how you are NOT a Jew-hater PH?

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By Ouroborus, January 25, 2010 at 5:58 pm Link to this comment

Xntrk, January 25 at 9:31 pm #
Ouroborus: Another link to add to you
collection:http://www.anarkismo.net/article/15636

This takes you to an article about Haiti, but the
site looks like a ‘real’ Left Site… If it is not, I
guess I apologize
==============================================
Thanks, it does indeed look like a real left site. I
went to the home (front) page and it’s in Spanish but
has an “English” button.
Seems to be about U.S. hegemony in Central and South
America. Also something about a labor movement in
Canada; I’ll read more later.
For news I’m down to Democracy Now and Link TV. Not
looking good in the neighborhood. I can barely bring
myself to post here anymore.
Thanks again. smile

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By PatrickHenry, January 25, 2010 at 5:35 pm Link to this comment

By Howard, January 25 at 9:33 pm #

Remember they threatened to eliminate Israel.

Would that be such a bad thing?  It would save the U.S. three billion year and future defense outlays.

I’m for cutting the cost of government, lets start here.

Not a week goes by without some sort of threat by Israel against Iran, even threats insinuating potential nuclear attack. 

Sounds like offsetting BS to me.

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By Xntrk, January 25, 2010 at 5:31 pm Link to this comment

Ouroborus: Another link to add to you collection:http://www.anarkismo.net/article/15636

This takes you to an article about Haiti, but the site looks like a ‘real’ Left Site… If it is not, I guess I apologize smile

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By TAO Walker, January 25, 2010 at 4:28 pm Link to this comment

Those allamerican icons, the cowboys, used to holler-out at rodeos,“Powder River let ‘er buck!” when some bronc-buster was coming out of the chute.  Here in Indian Country, though, as all those holier-than-thou true-believers in the pathological ‘dominance’ paradigm get set to blast their own self-deluded selfs to smithereens, over there in the No-holier-than-any-other-land Land, some of us here might be saying, with no enthusiasm though, something like, “Armageddon….let ‘er rip.” 

Worshipers of the one WAR ‘god’, who goes by many names, just haven’t been anywhere near as careful as they should’ve been about what they’ve wished-for.

HokaHey!

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By Shingo, January 25, 2010 at 4:04 pm Link to this comment

yes, Israel killed Arafat, and no, it is not a new one.  Sharon’s own adviser admitted it.  After all Arafat was under house arrest, where Israel controlled what he ate, drank and the air her breathed. Sharon stated repeatedly that he wanted to kill Arafat, and we are expect to believe it was natural causes.

Right.

it is illegal to seize land in wartime and no, the 1967 war as not self defense.  Menachem Beguin adn Yizak Rabin both stated that Israel attacked Egypt because they chose to

As for giving Gaza back, Israel fired 7,700 shells into Gaza over the 10 moths that followed, then turned the place into a wasteland and walled it up into an open air prison. 

This is how Zertal and Akiva Eldar decried the Israeli pullout from Gaza in their book, “Lords of the Land”.

“After Israel withdrew it’s forces from Gaza, in August 2005, the ruined territory was not released for even a single day from Israel’s military grip, or from the price of the occupation that the inhabitants pay every day. Israel left behind scotched earth, devastated services, and people with nearly a present or a future. The Jewish settlements were destroyed in an ungenerous move by an unenlightened occupier, which in fact continues to control the territory and kill and harass it’s inhabitants, by means of it’s formidable military might.”

Just so much generosity right Howard?

And then when the Gazans dare to vote in a democratic election, Israel punished them for making the wrong choice.

Israel is a terrorist state, founded on terrorism by terrorists.

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By Howard, January 25, 2010 at 3:39 pm Link to this comment

Israel ’ killed’  arafat???
  that’s a new one.
  next you will say they killed ’ Kennedy’, eh?
and then maybe Abe Lincoln, too ??

And any land Israel got was as a result of self-defense.  And any time they give land back, such as Gaza, its been taken as a sign of weakness and there is No corroborating give- back except rockets and more terror.  I think Israel will think much more now about security than offering land for a dreamlike cloudlike ’ peace ‘.

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By Shingo, January 25, 2010 at 3:21 pm Link to this comment

Israel’s expansion is impossible to ignore.  One onyl need look at a map of Israel/Palestine from 1948 to the prsent day to see that Israel’s land grab has grown like a cancer.

It is the Western World that has been doing the conquering and Israel has been an istrument of that.  It was the British afterall, that invented Israel and invented teh borders in the Middel East.

No, Israel was not the first in Palestine.

Israel onyl wants peace on it’s terms, which is, to keep the land it has stolen.  Hitler wanted peace too, if he coudl have achieved his aims without violence.  Why would the Palestinians want peace udner the status quo?

Aarafat proved that bending to Israel’s wishes is suicide.  Israel kept offering him bad deals and he stuck with the peace plan, and officially recognized Israel. Israel killed him for his effort.

Isrlae will bnever tolerate anyone who can lead the Palestinians.  They hate strong leaders, and improson them ie. Bargouti.

Palestinians have no chance for economic and social peace when they are being blockaded, massacred, and evicted from their homes.  Even in the West Bank, Isrsel is improsoning protestters and stealing more land.  Netenyahu annouced this week that Israle will keep what it has stolen.

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By Howard, January 25, 2010 at 3:12 pm Link to this comment

Israel’s expansion is a falsehood.  Not even the size of Rhode Island.  Hard to find it on a map.
  Only Islam wishes to conquer this very day….and cannot stand the tiny tiny little island of Israel in the mid-east. Even tho they were there first few dozen centuries ago.
  There has been no serious plan from the Pal’s or their bosses to extend a hand in peace. No one wants peace more than the Israeli’s. Aarafat was a total disaster for his people.  Need someone who can lead his people to an economic and social peace.  Might be happening in the west bank this very moment.

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By Shingo, January 25, 2010 at 2:51 pm Link to this comment

No, the ‘67 borders would not be the End of Israel.

It might be the end of Israel’s vilatino fo international law and the Geneva Conventions. it might be the end of Isral’s expansionist polcies and and theft. 

Otherwise, Israel would simply return to the borders where is existyed quite happily prior to the 1967 war.


Whether there is plenty of room for everyone is irrelvant.  The land Isrla has stolen belongs to someone else.  Israel agreed to the partition in 1947.  If they had a problem with the land they weer given, that was the time to voice their objections.

Jordan has nothgin to do with Palestne.  Neither does Egypt.

Hams is the only side of the conflict that does support a 2 state solutino, while Likud rejects it. Hmas stuxk to the 2008 ceasfire in 2008, whiole Isral vilated itr from day 1 (by refusing to lift the blockade as agreed) and them by violating it on the 4th of November, when Israel atatcked Gaza.

BTE.  Hamas have already amended their charter in early 2006, so you might want to get up to speed.

Hamas drops call for destruction of Israel from manifesto
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jan/12/israel

Hezbollah’s goals are the same as they have alwasy been, to keep Israel out of Lebanon.  Otherwise, Hezbollah tend to mind their own business.

Israel only want peace on their own terms, which is not peace.

Iran does want peace. In 2003, they made a grand bargain to Washington, which offered to make peace with Israel, and Wshington rejected it.

No Iranian leader has ever threatened to eliminate Israel. That was debunked long ago, so that’s another Hasbra talking point you might want to update.

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By Howard, January 25, 2010 at 1:33 pm Link to this comment

‘67 borders would be the End of Israel for sure. There is plenty of room for everyone , otherwise.  Jordan is 85% palestinian, Egypt has/should be governing Gaza, like they did for decades. There is Yet to be any genuine peace emanating from Hamas (whose charter and goals are the elimination of Israel) or hezballoh, whose goals are the same.  Both outfits are misled as they have yet to realize their best friends could and would beIsrael.  Who do want peace. 
  Iran wants no peace. It is run by a bunch of nuts and wierdos. They are the ones who hurt the Pal’s the most.  Remember they threatened to eliminate Israel. amd still do.  Israel has a long memory about ignoring dangerous dictators who give off continual threats.

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By Shingo, January 25, 2010 at 1:13 pm Link to this comment

>> Israel has yet to Start, spell that s-t-a-r-t a war. Self-defense since ‘47. <<

Except for the wars in 1956, 1967, 1982-2000, 1006, 2008.

Now they want war with Iran, or at least, they want th eUS to fight a war with Iran for them.

The Palestinians and Arabs have all signed peace inititiative, which offers to recognize Israel asn noramlize relations with Israel, in return for Israel returning to 1967 borders.  Even Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran have accepted that offer.

Israel has repeatedly rehected the offer.

Hamas offered a long ceasefire with Israel.  Israel rejected that too because as Tzipi Livni said, a long ceasefire is not in Israel’s strategic intererests.

The game is up Howard.  The world is sick of Israel’s criminal, apartheid and inhumane policies.  Littel wonder that srale in considererd a greater threat to international peace than even Iran, in Europe.

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By johannes, January 25, 2010 at 11:10 am Link to this comment

To Howard,

I think you are one of that kind, you trow sand in our discussion machine, you know who is who.

You are falsifying hustory, Israel makes his living by keeping, open the war threat, thats how the billions come in, and about the same for the Palystinians with peace the focus will go elswhere.

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By diman, January 25, 2010 at 10:08 am Link to this comment

To Inherit The Wind…

It is certainly good to know that you do not support the Netanyaghu government but as far as your next statement is concerned, I’m afraid you are not in touch with reality of what is really going on in Israel.

“There is only one place in this world where a Jew can go and KNOW he’s not a 2nd class citizen”

You are gravely wrong my friend, Israel turned out to be,for me an Israely, the most racist state on the face of the planet. Do you, by any chance, familiar with the Law of Return and its stipulations? According to the law, I the descendant of a jew ( my grandfather was jewish) have the right to return to my motherland, I bet, they still have the slogan in the immigration office of the Ben-Gurion International airport “Welcome To Motherland”, but boy was my family surprised when we discovered that we are nothing but goyim in this country, not the real jews, it is even written -RUSSIAN in our identification card which any Israely citizen uses inside Israel. The racism is rampant in Israel, protectionism among the natives (Israely born) is a common practice, the police are corrupt and biased against immigrants, the Israely government seems to be on rotation shift, same people keep on rotating changing positions within the cabinet and almost every one of them comes from the intelligence community and every cadence ends up in a big corruption scandal. How is this for the only place in the world???

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By Howard, January 25, 2010 at 10:06 am Link to this comment

too late, southern mistriss;  Hezbllah has ruined the country of Lebanon.
    Israsel only wants peace.

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By southern girl, January 25, 2010 at 9:44 am Link to this comment

Hello,
As a true southern girl, I grew up in a wonderful loving caring family.  I never
dreamed I would marry someone other than a southern gentleman.  Well I
married the most wonderful loving Lebanese Christian man.  Most educated
people know that Lebanese people are hard working and devoted to their family,
a lot like the people in the south.  My kids and I love going to Lebanon,  We
were there in 2006 when the problems began.  Luckily we were escorted out of
the country, but I saw first hand who is responsible.  Most Lebanese do not want
this fighting.  Bactrack a little ....Growing up I had never met on Jewish or
Muslim person until I was 15.  Of course back then I can now recall how we are
programmed to immediately think all Muslims are terrible.  Well after living in
Boca Raton, FL and Los Angeles, I see who are the sly bad people.  I see how
some of these people act on a daily basis. They are   Ruthless, Rude and
Obnoxious.  Witnessing what I did in Lebanon in 2006, seeing all of these
innocent children killed and no one said anything, broke my heart.  I don’t want
the arab world to detest americans because we have let the Jews take over our
country. This is ridiculous they have infiltrated our country slowly and most
people can’t see what is happening.  I want people to know that some of us see
what is happening and don’t approve of this.  My question—how can we
change this?  How can we let America know that because our country babies and
protects Israel this is why everyone is against us?  I travel all over the world and
I love my country, but I am so sad how many countries view us because of our
ties to Israel.  Can we ever change what is happening?  Lebanon is a beautiful
country and the only thing stopping me and my kids moving there is the unrest
that exists.  We do visit there often though and my kids cry not to leave.  I
would be devastated if Israel does anything else to harm the innocent people
there and to ruin this beautiful country.

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By Howard, January 25, 2010 at 9:31 am Link to this comment

Israel has yet to Start, spell that s-t-a-r-t a war. Self-defense since ‘47.  Incident after incident afer war after war thrust upon them.  No wonder they want security next time. 
  Pal’s and arabs do not want peace. Or another arab country.  Long as Israel is around.
  Arab countries pay ’ lip service’ to pal’s cause. Otherwise they could not distract their populations.

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By southern girl, January 25, 2010 at 7:54 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

As a true southern girl, I grew up in a wonderful loving caring family.  I never
dreamed I would marry someone other than a southern gentleman.  Well I
married the most wonderful loving Lebanese Christian man.  Most educated
people know that Lebanese people are hard working and devoted to their family,
a lot like the people in the south.  My kids and I love going to Lebanon,  We
were there in 2006 when the problems began.  Luckily we were escorted out of
the country, but I saw first hand who is responsible.  Most Lebanese do not want
this fighting.  Bactrack a little ....Growing up I had never met on Jewish or
Muslim person until I was 15.  Of course back then I can now recall how we are
programmed to immediately think all Muslims are terrible.  Well after living in
Boca Raton, FL and Los Angeles, I see who are the sly bad people.  I see how
some of these people act on a daily basis. They are   Ruthless, Rude and
Obnoxious.  Witnessing what I did in Lebanon in 2006, seeing all of these
innocent children killed and no one said anything, broke my heart.  I don’t want
the arab world to detest americans because we have let the Jews take over our
country. This is ridiculous they have infiltrated our country slowly and most
people can’t see what is happening.  I want people to know that some of us see
what is happening and don’t approve of this.  My question—how can we
change this?  How can we let America know that because our country babies and
protects Israel this is why everyone is against us?  I travel all over the world and
I love my country, but I am so sad how many countries view us because of our
ties to Israel.  Can we ever change what is happening?  Lebanon is a beautiful
country and the only thing stopping me and my kids moving there is the unrest
that exists.  We do visit there often though and my kids cry not to leave.  I
would be devastated if Israel does anything else to harm the innocent people
there and to ruin this beautiful country.

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By Shingo, January 25, 2010 at 5:58 am Link to this comment

BTW, has anyone noticed that Ehud Barak’s threat amounts to a promise to commit large scale terrorism?

If Hebollah fight back, Israel has promised to destroy Lebanon’s infrastructure, which amounts to collective punichment.  No doubt, Israel will kill hundreds or maybe thousands of Lebanese civilians and claim that they were eitehr Hebollah or being used by Hebollah as human shields, in spite of this lie beingdebunked last time by HRW and other observers.

Israel’s amen corner will claim it’s regretable an unintended, even though Tom Friedman recently argued that this practive is a good stratergy.  And of course, we have the tetimony of Ze’ev Shiff (Israeli journalist and military correspondent for Ha’aretz )

“The Israeli army has always struck civilian populations, purposely and consciously. The army has never distinguished civilian from military targets, but has purposely attacked civilian targets.”

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By Shingo, January 25, 2010 at 5:53 am Link to this comment

BTW Howard,

As ghostrider67 has already pointed out, Israel has lready violated the terms of the cease fire agreement 2500 times since the end of the 2006 war, while Hezbollah has kept to the letter ofthe agreement.

And last week, Israeli forces tresspassed 300 meters into Lebanese soil and Hezbollah held their fire.

So it turns out you’re wrong even before the war started.  Just like they did in Gaza, Israel is alwasy the first to violate the ceasefire, which of course is nothing new.  As Moshe Dayan admitted, Israel has started at least 80% of all border skirmishes and does so as a means of escalting a conflict to justify the theft of land.

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By Shingo, January 25, 2010 at 5:27 am Link to this comment

>> Ahh,  Israel is ganging up again on its 20 arab nations ? <<

No, but FYI, 22 of those Arab nations have all signed a peace inititive which offers to recgonize Israel and normalize relations as per the 1967 borders.  An offer, which BTW, Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran have said they support.

But I digress.

What happened in 2006?  Well as luck would have it, Olmert admitted to the Wonigrad Commission that he had planned the attack in Southern Lebanon 1 year before it took place. It also was reveald that not only were Blair and Bush informed of the plans to atatck Lebanon, but Isreli leaders were givign Power POit presentatinos in Washington 6 months ealier.

So yeah, Israel will start a war (as they always do) and ban the media from entering the region, (like thy did in Gaza) and blame Hezbollah for starting the war.  By the time the edia report that it was Israel who picked the fight, the war will be into ful swing and no one will be interested in such details.

Hebollah have plenty fo erasons to exist,  They are part of the Lebaese government and they kick IDF butt. 

Dont worry about the Christian population in Lebanon.  They are better off than the Christian population in Israel (what is left of them) will ever be and much better off than the Christian population in Gaza.

The impotent and cowardly IDF was boasting about what a great victory Gaza was.  Imagine that?  Shooting fish in a barrel and they think they are bad asses.

Israel is due for another hiding.

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By Howard, January 25, 2010 at 5:17 am Link to this comment

Ahh,  Israel is ganging up again on its 20 arab nations ?
  What crock.  Hezballah will start lobbing missles to get it started.  they have no other reason to exist.
  Shira law is next.  Poor Lebanon.  the Christian population in Lebanon is comprimised.  they will seek to be refugees in Israel. Escape across the border.  soon enuf.

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By Shingo, January 25, 2010 at 4:50 am Link to this comment

Hi ITW,

I know you are no fan of Netenyahu.

I wouldn’t want to live under Hezbollah, but they only remain relevant so long as there is anymosity with Israel, so in a way, they are a mirror image of Likud, without the polished Aamerican accents.

Still, I don’t consider them to be Islamists.  Yes, they are fudamentalists, but they know Lebano sin;t going to tolerate Shariah Law.

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By johannes, January 25, 2010 at 4:47 am Link to this comment

To Robert,

Yes thats the question I ask my self every time I am reading some peace of thinking WHO IS IT WHO IS WRITING THIS, is it tru or an provocation to be derailed, and push you in an other direction, of thinking and responding, WHO KNOWS.


Salutation.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 25, 2010 at 4:41 am Link to this comment

Shingo, January 25 at 8:30 am #

“Told you all I’d be attacked for daring to argue that Israel has a right to exist”’

Come on ITW.  This is poor form.

I’d expect that straw man from the likes of Howard but not you.

First of all, no state has ever had the right to exist, and never have I heard a critic of Israel argue whether Israel has a right to exist. Zionists always race to introduce this into any debate about Israel, in an attempt to derail the discussion.

Enough already!  Israel exists, therefore it doesn’t need the right to.
******************************************

Hi, S. Nice to see you.  Actually, you need to read the recent posts here and around TD.  The right of Israel to exist is very much the question.

And you KNOW I do not, cannot, and will not defend the arrogant, incompetent, sneaky and short-sighted Netanyahu regime.  He is the George W. Bush of Israel, using lies and fears to terrify decent people into supporting him with the LIE that he will protect them.  Just like Americans were fooled and terrified (even terrorized) by Bush & co.

Nor can I or will I defend the current sneaky and deceptive policy of expanding settlements.

OTOH, Hezbollah is not someone any of US would want to live under.  If they succeed in taking over Lebanon, that nation’s history of being the intellectual garden of the Arab world will be gone forever as Hezbollah will implement an “Islamic” dictatorship complete with their own virulent implementation of Sharia.  They are no more heroes than the Likud bloc in Israel.

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By Shingo, January 25, 2010 at 4:41 am Link to this comment

>> There is only one place in this world where a Jew can go and KNOW he’s not a 2nd class citizen, where he knows that his fellow citizens won’t turn on him and say “You Jews have risen far enough. You have too much power and money and we have to strip you of it.”  One place. <<

Really?

So if it’s so tough for Jews in the US, and the rest of the Levant, why do the majority of the world’s Jewish population insist on not moving to the one place they are not 2nd class citizens?


Tell me ITW, even if you believe that the USA is full of people who think Jews have too much and need to be stripped of it, have any Jews ever been stripped of their wealth or denied their rights 100%?

And while it may be true that Ashkenazi Jews in Israel are not second class citizens, the same doesn’t necessarily apply to Serpharic or Ethiopean Jews does it, let alone the Arabs.

The argument that Israel neighbors begrudged Israel is also a weak argument, to put it mildly.  If I were to hack into Warren Buffet’s bank account and transferring 8 million into my account, would it be reasonable t argue that I should keep it on the basis that I left him 99% of his money and argue that his protestations were simply a personal grudge against me?

Get real. If Israel is any kind of democracy, then property rights shoudl be a fundamental roncipal of that state.

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By Shingo, January 25, 2010 at 4:30 am Link to this comment

“Told you all I’d be attacked for daring to argue that Israel has a right to exist”’

Come on ITW.  This is poor form.

I’d expect that straw man from the likes of Howard but not you.

First of all, no state has ever had the right to exist, and never have I heard a critic of Israel argue whether Israel has a right to exist. Zionists always race to introduce this into any debate about Israel, in an attempt to derail the discussion.

Enough already!  Israel exists, therefore it doesn’t need the right to.

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By Shingo, January 25, 2010 at 4:25 am Link to this comment

>> You know as well as I do if every Palestinian who claims his granddaddy or great-granddaddy lost his land in 1948 came back into Israel, Israel would cease to exist and would become another Arab dictatorship.<<

The sad fact ITW, is that there would be no Israel if they had not drivng 750,000 Palestinians off their land.  You’re too smart to start justying Israel crimes on the bassis of what the Germans dod to the Jews.

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By Shingo, January 25, 2010 at 4:20 am Link to this comment

>>Lebanon was once the Switzerland of he mid-east; but now Hezballah is beginning to overcome the christian population in that country and militaristicaly is priming itself to attack Israel.<<

Aaoun is a Christian you idiot, and yes, Lebanon was the Riviera of the Middle East, until Israle invaded an occupied it for 18 years.

And FYI, Israel has started every war since 1948, with perhaps the exceptino fo the 1973 war, which was a hangover of the 1967 war, which Israel definitely started.

If there is a war this time, it will be Israel that intiates it.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 24, 2010 at 10:01 pm Link to this comment

diman, January 24 at 11:21 pm #

How dare we Jews stand up for anything!- By Inherit The Wind.

I think your understanding of standing up for anything is a little bit different from that of an Israely government which usually involves tanks and bulldozers and talks about the transfer of the entire arab population of Palestine.

*************************************************

Tell me when you have EVER seen me defend the Netanyahu government, or the Likud, or the fanatical ultra Orthodox who who even killed a prime minister to prevent a negotiated peace.

Ever.

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By Howard, January 24, 2010 at 10:01 pm Link to this comment

Lebanon was once the Switzerland of he mid-east; but now Hezballah is beginning to overcome the christian population in that country and militaristicaly is priming itself to attack Israel.

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By diman, January 24, 2010 at 7:21 pm Link to this comment

How dare we Jews stand up for anything!- By Inherit The Wind.

I think your understanding of standing up for anything is a little bit different from that of an Israely government which usually involves tanks and bulldozers and talks about the transfer of the entire arab population of Palestine.

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Robert's avatar

By Robert, January 24, 2010 at 6:53 pm Link to this comment

July 21, 2009

Team Twitter

Israel’s Internet War

By JONATHAN COOK

in Nazareth.

Israel’s foreign ministry is reported to be establishing a special undercover team of paid workers whose job it will be to surf the internet 24 hours a day spreading positive news about Israel.

Internet-savvy Israeli youngsters, mainly recent graduates and demobilised soldiers with language skills, are being recruited to pose as ordinary surfers while they provide the government’s line on the Middle East conflict.

“To all intents and purposes the internet is a theatre in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and we must be active in that theatre, otherwise we will lose,” said Ilan Shturman, who is responsible for the project.

The existence of an “internet warfare team” came to light when it was included in this year’s foreign ministry budget. About $150,000 has been set aside for the first stage of development, with increased funding expected next year.

The team will fall under the authority of a large department already dealing with what Israelis term “hasbara”, officially translated as “public explanation” but more usually meaning propaganda. That includes not only government public relations work but more secretive dealings the ministry has with a battery of private organisations and initiatives that promote Israel’s image in print, on TV and online.

In an interview this month with the Calcalist, an Israeli business newspaper, Mr Shturman, the deputy director of the ministry’s hasbara department, admitted his team would be working undercover.

“Our people will not say: ‘Hello, I am from the hasbara department of the Israeli foreign ministry and I want to tell you the following.’ Nor will they necessarily identify themselves as Israelis,” he said. “They will speak as net-surfers and as citizens, and will write responses that will look personal but will be based on a prepared list of messages that the foreign ministry developed.””

~~~~~~~~~~~

Click on link for the rest of Cook’s article on Zionist’s hasbara:


http://www.counterpunch.org/cook07212009.html

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By johannes, January 24, 2010 at 5:23 pm Link to this comment

To Inherit the Wind,

I have to say to you calm down, take a step back and look wath you have written for nonsense, its absolutly not coherent.


Some people or groups can call up and evoke evil over them selfs, thats a fact you can find in our human history, the way they behave or treed others,
or do not wanth to intergrate, why they think they are so bloody special, with special gods and an special history, well we are all famelie, and come all from the same small valey in Africa.


Salutation.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 24, 2010 at 4:25 pm Link to this comment

Thong-girl, January 24 at 3:51 pm #

By Inherit The Wind, January 24 at 12:44 am # “It’s all bullshit. I’ll be attacked for this.  I always am.”

I agree with much of what you say, especially the part about how you have too much power, and many of us don’t trust you, and we never will. We understand completely what you mean.
*****************************************

Got a swastika on your thong and an autographed copy of “Mein Kampf”?

I WISH I had that power—I would have had Paul Volcker running the economy, had Harry Reid backing off the Republicans and whipping the self-serving types like Nelson and Lieberman into shape.

I’d have Obama putting it HARD to Netanyahu to stop blowing the chances for peace, and make damn sure talk of attacking Iran ended.

But I don’t have that power and I have always known your type would turn on me.  You always do.

How dare we Jews stand up for anything!

Anti-semitism rises and becomes acceptable about every 50 years.  We’ve been overdue so here it comes again….and the bigots and cossacks always, Always, ALWAYS have a “good” reason for it, as they did in the 30’s, and the 1880’s and down the years to the Spanish Inquisition, and before that the Crusades, the Black Plague, forever and ever.

Now Thong-girl is the latest incarnation.

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