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Victory in Tripoli: They Did It

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Posted on Aug 23, 2011
AP / Alexandre Meneghini

Libyans in the rebel stronghold of Benghazi celebrate the capture of Tripoli.

By William Pfaff

The most significant and easily disregarded lesson of the successful Libyan uprising, as of the Egyptian and Tunisian risings that preceded it, is that the Arabs did it themselves. That is bad news for the United States.

The issue of “R2P,” so-called, has been current in American and European policy circles since the wars of Yugoslav succession found their genocidal climax in the killings at Srebrenica. Out of that came the proposition that democratic nations should accept the burden of a “responsibility to protect” vulnerable and endangered peoples, and even those being egregiously misgoverned. It assumed that Arab liberation comes from outside, not inside. It hasn’t happened that way.

Before this theory had been proposed formally, and long before the United Nations had favorably considered the argument that international society bears a responsibility to intervene in states abusing their own populations, as well as committing crimes against humanity, war crimes and ethnic cleansing, George W. Bush had cited exactly this duty as justification for his invasion of Iraq. The invasion supposedly would free Iraqis and spare Israelis, Western Europeans and Americans from the threat of weapons of mass destruction—which Iraq did not in fact possess. Rarely has so well intentioned a proposition been so devastatingly undermined.

The Libyans started by themselves, but were not alone very long. The revolt in Eastern Libya was counterattacked by the Libyan government’s armored forces, a turn of events that prompted the French government of Nicolas Sarkozy to military intervention—inviting the British government to join it, creating a joint European military command.

The British were unwilling to act without asking Washington’s permission, and the United States, since NATO’s inception, has considered it essential to block any independent European military initiative. Hence it insisted that NATO must command, and American officers hold leading positions.

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But the American public, most American liberals as well as most Republican politicians, were hostile to “another war,” so American offensive action was called off. Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, Jordan, Morocco, and additional European governments were recruited to noncombat roles. The French and British did nearly all the air support, furnished arms, and sent in British SAS and French Special Forces personnel as trainers and tactical advisers.

The U.S. provided intelligence and carried out some special tasks, thus “leading from behind” as a Center for Strategic and International Studies expert in Washington has cautiously noted. Not all would agree with the Council on Foreign Relations analyst who said on Monday that this “was certainly a victory” for President Obama. The president accepted such plaudits from professionals and press, and declared: “American leadership is not simply a matter of going it alone and bearing all the burden ourselves. Real leadership creates the conditions and coalitions for others to step up as well.”

He failed to note that America’s absence was what enabled the victory. If the U.S. had gone seriously into the war, and behaved characteristically, Libya would have been heavily bombed to eliminate risks to American combatants, and U.S. ground troops would have been landed, provoking greatly increased resistance.

In Libya it would have been assumed, correctly, that the U.S., as in revolutionary Egypt, was seeking a more compliant Libyan leader, and wanted access to Libya’s oil and gas fields, and to what formerly was Wheelus U.S. Air Force Base. This already has been suggested (in U.S. military circles in Europe), as the possible headquarters for the U.S. Army’s Africa Command, which is still temporarily lodged in Europe, vainly searching for a country in Africa to take it in.

There is a dilemma in Middle Eastern matters, which every professional recognizes (and most nonprofessionals, for that matter), but which for domestic political reasons it is impossible for any administration to acknowledge. Washington’s total allegiance to Israel and to Israel’s expansion and domination of territories legally Palestinian renders impossible any close, impartial, disinterested or candid relationship with an Arab government.

Washington’s previous “alliances” or close relationships with Egypt and Tunisia, and its present relations with Yemen and Bahrain—the countries that have experienced the Arab “Awakening” of 2011, and those who at present continue to resist it—have always been constructed upon money, intimidation or blackmail. Washington will do whatever it can to manipulate the internal politics of the new governments that emerge in the region. It has no alternative.

The beauty and hope of the Arab Awakening movements has been that they have been spontaneous. That makes it impossible for the United States to deal with them impartially. The Europeans can and eventually will, which offers some mitigation of the situation, but at the cost of worsening American-European relations. American relations with new “post-Awakening” Arab governments will grow worse, assuming that these are more or less representative governments.

America is now more hated in Egypt (and in Afghanistan and Pakistan) than ever before. A Palestinian demand next month for full U.N. membership will undoubtedly worsen the situation, since Washington may be expected unconditionally to oppose this initiative. The outcome could be still more violence and hatred. The United States has—tragically—made itself the enemy of the Muslim world, and it is impossible to see how this can change, other than for the worse.


Visit William Pfaff’s website for more on his latest book, “The Irony of Manifest Destiny: The Tragedy of America’s Foreign Policy” (Walker & Co., $25), at www.williampfaff.com.

© 2011 Tribune Media Services, Inc.


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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, September 14, 2011 at 7:01 am Link to this comment

What Viaduct?
No! Ask Dave, it was a goose!

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By ardee, September 14, 2011 at 3:46 am Link to this comment

And we went through the whole deal about ducks cannot bit because they do not have teeth and then we moved onto the Groucho Marx bit from the movie “Duck Soup”, where Groucho’s brother (Harpo?) said ...“what duck”?

Err,Leefeller If memory serves the quote was “why a duck, why not a goose”. The reference was to a pun on the word viaduct if you recall.

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LocalHero's avatar

By LocalHero, September 13, 2011 at 9:19 am Link to this comment

Good gawd. Do they pay Pfaff for this Establishment twaddle?

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drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, September 4, 2011 at 8:52 am Link to this comment

Whistle-blower, Susan Lindauer, former CIA asset, explains why the
USGOV manipulated the NATO puppetry to blow up Libya and attempt to
oust Gadhafi, while CIA & MOSSAD operatives performed as Libyan
insurgents against Gadhafi, on the ground.
http://exposedpost.blogspot.com/2011/04/susan-lindauer-interview-
illegal-war-in.html

Info at a previous link provided by blog dog proves that Gadhafi was
not involved in the destruction of the Pan American Airlines 747 over
Lockerbie. Former CIA agents stated that the C.I.A. planted the
explosives, in order to assassinate other US agents returning with
evidence against drug-running. Which drug-running was begun by the
GHWBushSr entourage. Which assassinations have been GHWBushSr´s modus
operandi for covering his tracks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IgsRHM6esw&feature=related

Since he was not involved in the Lockerbie tragedy, the millions in
reparations paid out by Muammar Gadhafi to the remaining families of
those who were murdered by the CIA via the Lockerbie tragedy, should be
viewed as a generous, humanitarian effort.  Disinformation against
Gadhafi continues to be produced by the NAZI element of the C.I.A. and
broadcast by western world, puppet news media.
Wm. Pfaff weaves nice fairy-tales for Truthdig.

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blogdog's avatar

By blogdog, September 3, 2011 at 11:03 pm Link to this comment

as note… “ad hominem invective” - overly characteristic of the blogosphere,
eminent domain of the imminently unpublished

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By Inherit The Wind, September 3, 2011 at 9:25 pm Link to this comment

Oh, shit. Is there a full moon tonight? Because the lunatics are howling at it.

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cpb's avatar

By cpb, September 3, 2011 at 12:01 pm Link to this comment

“the blogosphere, on the other hand, is definitely polluted with the foul-mouthed, the infantile, the
self-absorbed, who, failing to mount convincing polemics, descend to crass ad hominem invective”

- BlogDog

Nicely said.

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blogdog's avatar

By blogdog, September 3, 2011 at 11:12 am Link to this comment

missing from the list are MI6, ISI, RAW - the global intelligence nexus is comprehensive - their
effectiveness is bolstered by unwitting, contributors in all media (MSM to penny-ante letter writers),
and makes ample use of dedicated patriots serving in highly compartmentalized security and
intelligence agencies - across this global nexus, there operates an equally compartmentalized rogue
network - documented since the ‘cold war’,  growing steadily in strength and cunning - a fissure of
light was shed upon them during the Church Hearings after the fall of Saigon, but they were never
adequately disciplined - some Hearing sessions were closed, for reasons of ‘national security’, we’re
told

this field of study is by no means dominated by “...paranoid bat-shit-crazy wacko…” types

e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJIC7-DnLtg
      http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ST/

the blogosphere, on the other hand, is definitely polluted with the foul-mouthed, the infantile, the
self-absorbed, who, failing to mount convincing polemics, descend to crass ad hominem invective

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By Inherit The Wind, September 3, 2011 at 5:49 am Link to this comment

The shrill posts of the lunatics reinforce my analysis.
So Dr. Quack believes the Holocaust was real….but he also believes Hitler was a self-hating Jew, and that Jews were complicit in the Holocaust to help found Israel.

If you think every vile act that happens in the world is due to the CIA, Mossad or Zionists (or some combination of the 3) then you are a paranoid bat-shit-crazy wacko.  I make NO apologies for that sentiment.

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drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, September 3, 2011 at 2:59 am Link to this comment

“I expect them both to next come out in favor of the Holcaust deniers. Join them if your wish.” Inheret the Wind

First of all, Truthdig is not a “Doctor, please help me” column.

This Zionist shill granted permission to Truthdig bloggers to “join them” the holocaust deniers. My, my, how gracious !
The variations in writing styles over two months´ time period suggests a Zionist covy – their modus operandi. On the other hand, perhaps only variations in idiosyncratic thought patterns, influenced by varying emotional states, with limited, fine-motor involvement.

I will add another link that provides additional detail of what the Zionist leaders of the shill in subject are doing to purveyors of truth and accuracy.  Which, is what Inheret the Wind attempts to do via blogging, to perceived adversaries on Truthdig.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1107/S00140/susan-lindauer-how-obama-got-it-all-wrong-on-libya.htm

Having visited several of the Hitler entourage´s extermination stalags, years after the end of WWII, I know their genocide was real. Reviewing the derivation of Adolf Hitler´s family, (the same derivation as the Scherff family of Doerlitzsch/Nasdorf, Germany) within the context of information provided by NAZI SS LTC Otto Skorzeny, the current picture of the USA is placed in clear focus.  http://proliberty.com/observer/20070405.htm

The current state of events in the USA is updated via subtleties
contained by the following link. Place the link in your browser,
enter, wait for the Homepage to appear; then click down several times to view revealing fotos. http://scherf.com/club.htm

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cpb's avatar

By cpb, September 2, 2011 at 10:25 pm Link to this comment

Yo BlogDog - appreciate the info, will follow up.

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blogdog's avatar

By blogdog, September 2, 2011 at 10:12 pm Link to this comment

cpb: ITW’s reasoning virtually always leads to accusations of anti-semitism… just
the way it is - not personal: equal opportunity ad hominem invective

as for Pan Am 103 - it’s been well exposed as a CIA rogue network hit to take
out a team of investigators on their way back to DC to toss the table on their little
Bekaa Valley heroin smuggling op.

former CIA asset, whistel-blower, Susan Lindauer (who spent half a decade
fighting detention as the first Patriot Act victim) knows and is telling the story
widely - the following link ties it into the current NATO sponsored, Al Queda-led, regime-change op.

http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2011/07/lindauer-on-libya-rebels-and-lockerbie.html

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cpb's avatar

By cpb, September 2, 2011 at 6:27 pm Link to this comment

Hey Windy Inheritance you’re back at it huh. 

Qadaffi admitted it.  Find us a link to such there Breezy cause now you’re sounding like a total crank.

That’s right - everyone who questions the official version of things hates the US.  And it’s ultimately because, can you guess Windy?  that’s right.. it’s all about US Freedoms! 

And more importantly…  Clearly everyone who doesn’t agree with you is a bat-shit crazy US hating pseudo commie wannabe and holocaust denier and likely aspires to live in Iran!!  smile 

You’re too much Windy, too phreaking much.

Tell us straight Windy, if you’re not just trolling, what the heck are you here for?

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By Inherit The Wind, September 2, 2011 at 6:07 pm Link to this comment

CPB:
Tropicgirl is full of crap. She belongs in the next rubber room to Dr. Quack.  There is NOTHING to what she says. Qaddaffi ADMITTED to ordering the bombing.

She and the Quack just hate the United States SO MUCH that they believe everything about the USA (include their protected right to air their nutty ideas) is totally the greatest evil to exist in the history of the earth.

I expect them both to next come out in favor of the Holcaust deniers.  Join them if your wish.

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drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, September 2, 2011 at 3:03 pm Link to this comment

“And the Lockerbie bombing was another fake. These events are all staged. The reason you know it is that, when looking back at history, every single war or “engagement” was started with a fake incident. ”  tropicgirl

You are zeroed-in on target, tropicgirl !
At the time of the tragic Lockerbie PAA 747 event, chatter of USGOV insiders suggested that the destruction was as assassination of several persons scheduled for the flight, amassed on a Christmas time return to the US. However, the identity of several who made belated cancellations led to speculation that they had received a warning. Such a warning is not dissimilar to that which led to the banking activity just prior to the events of 11 Sep 2001, and the hustling to “fall out shelters” by a few US officials early that morning. For sure, no such warning would have been given by agents of Gadhafi to US personnel, had Gadhafi been responsible for blowing up the PAA 747.

It is also very interesting that the precise amount of the explosive allegedly used has been
repeatedly printed in US news releases since shortly after the tragedy. One questions how US
newsmedia acquired such precise information so swiftly. The event occurred on 21 Dec. 1988, had a disheartening effect on Christmas celebration, apparently was orchestrated to do so.  Blaming Gadhafy, focussed anger and hate of the professed “Christian world” on him for the disruption of “Christmas cheer.”  Not dissimilar to the set-up of Oswald, who was drinking a coke with co-workers when Pres. John F. Kennedy was murdered. Engendering hate against the singular Mid East ruler who resisted all bribery attempts by agents of the USGOV, and pressures from Zionist oil moguls, displays the pattern of US CIA scape-goating. In 1973, the official C.I.A. chief, William Colby, announced variously that the CIA “owned” all notables in the news media of the USA. In 1988, newspaper owners were property of the CIA, suggesting the source of info released by US news media about the Lockerbie tragedy. 

Answers to numerous similar situations in the USA are provided in, “America´s NAZI Secret,” 2010 edition, by John Loftus. 

The former Minister of Justice under Gadhafi, Mustafa Abdel-Jalil,  is reported to have informed the Swedish newspaper “Expressen” in Feb 2011, that he can verify that Gadhafi ordered the blow-up of the PAA 747.
Weird.
Twenty-three years later, as Libya is attacked, a swedish newspaper announces that Gadhafi´s former minister of justice blames Gadhafi for the Lockerbie tragedy. Why Sweden? Another set-up, like Julian Assange ?  Is Sweden paying-off a debt of sorts?

It is interesting that Abdel-Jalil is a major leader emerging from the NATO attack on Libya, under the guise of “democracy and freedom for women.”  Mustafa Abdel-Jalil, a devout Muslim, will allow no freedom for the ladies of Libya. However, if he becomes the leader of Libya, it will also tend to verify his role in the overthrow of Gadhafi, suggesting that he was a C.I.A. mole on Gadhafi´s staff.  If he hands over Libya´s oil to Zionist oil moguls, and the property on which Wheelus USAF Base was located to the USAF, all questions are answered.

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cpb's avatar

By cpb, September 2, 2011 at 10:38 am Link to this comment

“I do wonder how you live with yourself.”

That’s pretty typical from you Windy.  What tropicgirl is
on about has plenty of truth to it.  I think you’ll find
that much of the world doesn’t conform to what you may
believe - that is a human reality we all have to confront. 
How we react is the key.  You have options.  Try
graduating from the school yard already.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, September 2, 2011 at 10:20 am Link to this comment

Tropicgirl:
I suggest you move to Tripoli, Damascus or Harare and bask under the glow of heroes like Qaddaffi, Assad and that WONDERFUL humanitarian, Mugabe.  I’m sure you’ll be happier there.

You can tell the families of the Lockerbie bombing victims that it’s all a staged fake…but do try to stay out of their reach when you do so.  Next you’ll tell us nobody died when the WTC collapsed, just trick photography.

I do wonder how you live with yourself.

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tropicgirl's avatar

By tropicgirl, September 2, 2011 at 5:30 am Link to this comment

Did ITW really say that congress and O-Stupid were WISE? I thought I was seeing things. Are we in the same universe?

Well.. I’ll defend Quaddafi right now, unashamedly, as treating his people much better than ITW’s heroes treat us. And that’s the truth.

No one in their right mind can witness the shutting down of the Gibson Guitar plant, who hired over 500 people in the last year, for not having the entire guitar made by Bill Clinton’s India Plantation, and think that our government wants anything more than to ruin this country, for some motive or other.

Stated in the actual court papers against Gibson, the government suggested they move the plant to Madagascar. Slavery is just so attractive.

And the Lockerbie bombing was another fake. These events are all staged. The reason you know it is that, when looking back at history, every single war or “engagement” was started with a fake incident. Fake incidents were used to try to start a war with Cuba (Operation Northwoods), the Slavic nations with Clinton’s operation, and everything else before and after. Fake events were used by Hitler, in the Middle East and in Germany (Reichtag bombing). It’s a horrible thought, the worst, but it must be faced head on and understood.

And that doesn’t even include the Loner Wolf actions that have taken out every alpha male leader we’ve had since the turn of the century, black or white.

All fake. The real aggression comes in with those who “respond”.

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By Inherit The Wind, September 1, 2011 at 8:20 pm Link to this comment

Leefeller:
Dave123’s “handle” does not refer to himself as a doctor.  Therefore he is not Dr. Quack.
Look for one who makes that claim.  He’s right there.
ITW.

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, September 1, 2011 at 10:12 am Link to this comment

Gebeebiz on a cracker! I just realized I posted my last post on the wrong thread, though it seems to be the same posters? Or is it possible I placed it on the correct thread and physocosistmaticly believe it to be the wrong thread? Keeping up with yous guys can be hard work just like not knowing which article I am on, sometimes I do not even know which planet this is.

So we are on the Libya article, not the fantasy Perry one, well not much difference when you get down to it! Gadfly or Perry!

See it is all yous guys fault, you go way off topic, then I do not know where the hell I yam and loose my place. The only option is to push the rock all the way back to the top of the hill and find out, so I will try from now on,  I can feel empathy for Sisyphus!

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cpb's avatar

By cpb, September 1, 2011 at 10:10 am Link to this comment

“I would urge the well intentioned cpb to return to
posting opinions about issues and articles and leave that
temper tantrum prone jackwagon to his own devices.”

- Ardee

LOL!  Nice!

And..noted; I may take that advice, or not…. we shall
see.

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, September 1, 2011 at 9:46 am Link to this comment

ITW, Who are you referring to as Dr. Quack? I have been looking for the poster named Dr. Quack. I would suggest most people reading here may have the same problem as I?

The closet thing I can conjure up as to who may be Dr. Quack is Dave123 only because of his story incident which he posted here on TD a while back, where he was bitten by a duck which turned out to really be a goose? And we went through the whole deal about ducks cannot bit because they do not have teeth and then we moved onto the Groucho Marx bit from the movie “Duck Soup”, where Groucho’s brother (Harpo?) said ...“what duck”?

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drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, September 1, 2011 at 9:22 am Link to this comment

” - - wanted access to Libya’s oil and gas fields, and to what formerly was Wheelus U.S. Air Force Base. This already has been suggested (in U.S. military circles in Europe), as the possible headquarters for the U.S. Army’s Africa Command, which is still temporarily lodged in Europe, vainly searching for a country in Africa to take it in.”  Pfaff article

“Temporarily.”
Obviously, the decision was made a couple years ago in D.C., and farce USPresident “Barack
Hussein Obama Soetoro” decided that now is the time to carry it out.  Of course, taking over Libya was a requirement.  Hiding behind NATO constituency, which dropped US bombs, Tomahawk missiles, and fired depleted uranium bullets, Bush-Obama CIA and MOSSAD, plus operatives, all dressed as Arabs, conducted a land assault. This time against the leadership of Libya.

Will Sarkozy present a mini Statue of Liberty to the US CIA and Israeli MOSSAD operatives and ground forces, who claimed to be Libyans, for bringing “freedom” to Libyan oil reserves,  and Wheelus U.S.A.F. Base property?  The NATO puppetry only dropped the bombs, and fired the depleted uranium bullets, destroying buildings, homes and killing Libyan folk, under the GHWBushSr guise of “democracy and freedom for women.”  It would be a bit gaudy – even for Sarkozy - to present a mini Statue of Liberty to NATO puppet leadership. Anyway, where would he locate it, under the Eifel Tower? 

Congratulations to German leadership for declining to get sucked into another Hitler-type action, by WWII Hitler types. Hopefully, another 90-yr-old, private-corporal-type, on the verge of death, is not lined up to be prosecuted for 1942 Holocaust crimes.  This, instead of the generals, presidents and banking CEOs, who were responsible, who continue to manipulate the strings of the western world, and are behind the “EURO” bonds. 
RIGHT.
Bankrupt Germany and the EURO with worthless bonds, similar to the USA in 2008.

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, September 1, 2011 at 7:52 am Link to this comment

“Weak people tend to believe themselves and their opinions far more widespread than reality shows.”

“Fools put words and opinions in the mouths of others in order to somehow justify their own stupidity.”

“Morons continue to vent public temper tantrums sans any clue whatsoever as to what damage they do to their own repute.”

An interesting list, though I find it incomplete Ardee, and in light, find it reflective, though I would argue or (JD Mystically Proffer)  they seem a tad tantedly bias from a pure personal stereotypical proclivity, actually a tit for tat vendetta. This really seems to cloud the intended definition of these words especially from the Leefeller Tequila perspective!

I find myself having an Epiphany of some sort, (no it is not painful)  it seems to be yelling in me mind; well whats left of it;  demanding me to correct the list and add to its incompleteness,  but not from any personal attack or vendetta!... No!...  The following words appear glaringly missing from your incomplete list of weak, fool and moron and I find myself once again remiss   to add the following words; ..... stupid, idiot and of course my very moist favorite word in the world ...“imbecile” which comprehensively means stupid idiot!  All these words have an important and not so important history in me life!

Though I believe it prudent to use such words with reverence and utility like toilette paper, otherwise to mean, use them only when really necessary!

I will attempt to add more words to the the list and work on it between Tequila breaks after getting me toe nails trimmed.  One must make the list a noble list,  providing the required depth and meaning,  so only then will justice be served!

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By ardee, September 1, 2011 at 4:04 am Link to this comment

Weak people tend to believe themselves and their opinions far more widespread than reality shows.

Fools put words and opinions in the mouths of others in order to somehow justify their own stupidity.

Morons continue to vent public temper tantrums sans any clue whatsoever as to what damage they do to their own repute.

The ever changing lists of those I have offended from the usual and increasingly boring source of same speak volumes about the poster of them than they do about me. My exchanges with others continue or not on the desire of both parties to continue them. They are not subjected to the whims of an increasingly appearing sad little fellow without a clue or any trace of maturity.

I believe it is long past time for one who calls another a “dickhead” to shut the fuck up and get a clue. Or for the administration to censure yet another of his own efforts here. Oh, did he note that I have been deleted on occasion but refrained from noting his own erasures? Just another in a rather longish series of clues as to this persons serious and personal problems.

I would urge the well intentioned cpb to return to posting opinions about issues and articles and leave that temper tantrum prone jackwagon to his own devices.

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drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, September 1, 2011 at 1:14 am Link to this comment

“Yes they did!
http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2011/03/23/profits-and-losses/”  crow

Very informative link, crow. Thanks.

The guise of “democracy and freedom for women” has been a real winner
for the GHWBushSr, NAZI/Zionist entourage.

Meanwhile, NATO puppetry continues to carry out the Bush-Obama
directive, as CIA/MOSSAD operatives take over Libyan government.

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By Inherit The Wind, August 31, 2011 at 5:42 pm Link to this comment

CPB,
Get off your pedestal and go look for yourself and see what your “pal” is saying to Entropy2 and Lafayette.  Then tell me I’m imagining things.

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cpb's avatar

By cpb, August 30, 2011 at 9:34 pm Link to this comment

Hey Blowin in The Wind!

“If you cannot support your assertions then I hold you in the same contempt I hold the R.D.  In case you haven’t noticed the TM of TD have removed a significant number of your idol’s most abusive posts as violations of the AUP.”

Your contempt doesn’t bother me any more than it does Ardee.  Hot air there Windy.  Hot air.

I have an idol?  Hmmmmnn..  There’s that presumptuousness getting the better of you again.  I don’t claim to know you beyond some of your demonstrated behaviour; falsly accusing among them, how insightful your magic mirror must be to speak to you of my idols!

And while we’re talking about me - what is this assertion I’ve left unsupported.  Oh wait, excuse me, you pluralized assertion…  Forgive me.  So, what are these, assertions, that I’ve thrown out there so irresponsibly?

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By Inherit The Wind, August 30, 2011 at 9:22 pm Link to this comment

CPB:
If you cannot support your assertions then I hold you in the same contempt I hold the R.D.  In case you haven’t noticed the TM of TD have removed a significant number of your idol’s most abusive posts as violations of the AUP.

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cpb's avatar

By cpb, August 30, 2011 at 7:50 pm Link to this comment

Hi Ardee,

Truth be told, what I would state to ITW; I have interceded in defense of civil discourse, not yourself in particular.  Kindness comes with the package, and you are welcome to it. 

Have I made myself a target?  Come what may.  I’m new to posting here, but I am not ‘new’. 

Wise up ITW!  You sound like you’re paying attention to things, so drop the forward artillery and get over yourself.  You might learn something.

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By ardee, August 30, 2011 at 5:58 pm Link to this comment

cpb, August 30 at 3:12 pm

You are kind to intercede but I fear your attempt at rationality will only make you a target. I have rather broad shoulders, and as I was born and raised a New Yorker the immaturity that poster displays repeatedly fails to move me at all. I think having my own stalker a bit of a novelty in fact. You ain’t got one, neener, neener..wink

I confess to a NY’ers sarcasm, occasionally over the top to be sure, as I do to a abhorrence of phony debaters who ignore any points one makes and descends immediately to middle school insults and a rather ridiculous claim to knowledge of everyone else’s thoughts and dislikes.

I do thank you for the kind words but admit to a certain guilty pleasure in provocation of the weak link. I will sooo try to do better in the future.

Thanks again.

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cpb's avatar

By cpb, August 30, 2011 at 3:12 pm Link to this comment

@ ITW

You should do yourself a favor and pause for a deep
breath before you post.  Nothing in this thread would
justify ‘liar’ or ‘nit-wit’ labels on Ardee.  And I
can’t recall having had either thought from anything
s/he has posted in other threads.  Some smugness once in
awhile perhaps, but that’s not exactly a crime worth
jumping up and down and pointing fingers about.

“And most of TDigg knows it.”

Do we now?  Did you have your thumbs in your ears with
your tongue stuck out when you said that?  Do I hear
“nah nah nah nah nah nah!”?  This is not a popularity
contest and bullying doesn’t work in this playground.

I’ve been lurking here much longer than I’ve been
posting.  You should consider how many there are who are
reading your words and forming their own intelligent
conclusions.  Those that post and/or engage in banter
are not the whole community on this site.  The majority
is silent. 

Name calling and throwing minor hissy fits are not going
to get you taken seriously.

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By Inherit The Wind, August 29, 2011 at 8:35 pm Link to this comment

Ardee:

You are a lying nit-wit. 
And most of Truthdig knows it.

You attack anyone who dares defy you, not just me. The list keeps growing.

Please, ignore my posts. It will be the only decent thing you’ve ever done.  But don’t promise to do it because we both know and I will bet serious money that you will break that promise.

R.D.= Resident Dickhead.

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By cpb, August 29, 2011 at 2:03 pm Link to this comment

Thanks for that BlogDog.

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By blogdog, August 29, 2011 at 12:50 pm Link to this comment

You don’t bomb a “captured” city
http://tinyurl.com/3dnmlnq
Tony Cartalucci
Aug 26, 2011

“Each NATO warplane that passes over Libya’s coast and releases its ordnance upon the city of
Tripoli is a glaring reminder that not only have the NATO-backed rebels failed to take the city, but
the fighting there is beyond their ability to face without constant air support. As each bomb tears
through Tripoli’s already NATO-battered infrastructure – most recently destroying a fire station in
the Abu Salim district – the world is given daily affirmations of just how duplicitous and premature
NATO’s desperate claims of “victory” were, made now nearly a week ago. To add injury to insult,
UK’s Foreign Secretary William Hague was imploring South Africa to release funding to NATO’s
proxies in Benghazi and suggested that failing to do so would be “risking a humanitarian disaster.”
Hague has not yet explained how the persistent aerial bombardment of a heavily populated city isn’t
already causing a verified humanitarian disaster.The rebels, led on ground by NATO special forces
and protected by NATO planes in the air have still failed to take Tripoli after a week of fighting.
Attempts to seize other cities still under Libyan government control are also significant tactical
failures. The media, unable to point to a victorious rebel government seated in Tripoli is now
attempting to sell the “chaos” angle – that combat is degenerating into genocide, in hopes the world
will beg for a stabilization force. The only problem is that “genocidal” rebels are led, armed, trained,
and organized by NATO officers on the ground.”

[...]

“It is up to the alternative media to expose these facts ad infinitum so that NATO is unable to sell
their lies about achieving victory or portraying the rebels as “murderous loose cannons” requiring
NATO’s intervention. Of course there is the concerted attempt to repackage February’s verified lies
regarding Qaddafi’s alleged atrocities against civilians, coupled with the classical feigned fears of
“WMDs,” and use this as a pretext to land troops. These lies too must be vigorously exposed, forcing
NATO to either continue its tactical stalemate until its September deadline or forcing it to continue
destroying its reputation and exposing its true criminal agenda before the world as it ham-handedly
stumbles through the finish line.”

more details here - http://tarpley.net/

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By Inherit The Wind, August 29, 2011 at 6:45 am Link to this comment

ardee, August 29 at 2:48 am Link to this comment

“Two posters, Arabian Sinbad (Hi, A.S.) and the ridiculous Dr. Quack both sing Qaddaffi’s praises for bringing stability and for (supposedly) sharing oil revenues to raise the Libyan peoples’ standard of living.  Granted, A.S. qualifies his statement that Qaddaffi went bad”

Reach much?

Two insignificant sentences from two insignificant posters , both of whom I do not read, frankly. Much ado about nothing I repeat.

******************

Then I NEVER want to read a claim by you that I haven’t supported my assertions nor that I haven’t studied your BS.

You made a completely false statement. I proved it false. That’s absolute and incontrovertible.  Now you are trying to “spin” it that somehow, those two posters don’t “count”, because you personally discredit the value of their posts.

Sorry, but that’s just an attempt, yet again, to weasel out of being caught with your pants down and your butt hanging out (as unpleasant as that image is).

I may not put much stock in either poster’s views on this subject (Though on non-Middle East topics I find much common ground with A.S.)

IT DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACT THAT YOU ASSERTED THERE WAS NO DEFENSE OF QADDAFFI IN THIS THREAD AND I PROVED THERE WAS!

Your irresponsible assertions and attempts to spin them, and total refusal to accept responsibility for your mistakes and errors demonstrate yet again that you are nothing more than you accuse me of: a childish personality clinging to an irrational set of assertions.

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By ardee, August 29, 2011 at 2:48 am Link to this comment

“Two posters, Arabian Sinbad (Hi, A.S.) and the ridiculous Dr. Quack both sing Qaddaffi’s praises for bringing stability and for (supposedly) sharing oil revenues to raise the Libyan peoples’ standard of living.  Granted, A.S. qualifies his statement that Qaddaffi went bad”

Reach much?

Two insignificant sentences from two insignificant posters , both of whom I do not read, frankly. Much ado about nothing I repeat.

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By Inherit The Wind, August 28, 2011 at 10:15 am Link to this comment

I took pains to re-read the entire thread and found not one single sentence or hint in support of Ghaddafy . Thus the line of illogical is exposed.
**********

Either you suffer from a reading disability or you are yet again denying straight-forward facts in front of you. 

Two posters, Arabian Sinbad (Hi, A.S.) and the ridiculous Dr. Quack both sing Qaddaffi’s praises for bringing stability and for (supposedly) sharing oil revenues to raise the Libyan peoples’ standard of living.  Granted, A.S. qualifies his statement that Qaddaffi went bad.

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By Leefeller, August 28, 2011 at 8:26 am Link to this comment

In support of Gadfly!  If the Koch Brothers and super packs like ALEC can pump money to support their causes, to keep the huddled massed down and out of their way, I ask what is the difference from one person being all the votes or several people controlling or manipulating all the votes as the deciders in their direction?

One citizen, one dollar, one vote! From silent spring to Arab Spring to US rage! (last to remain seen!) not enough people mad yet?  http://usdayofrage.org/public-announcements/97-usdayofrage-occupy-wall-street.html

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By ardee, August 28, 2011 at 8:01 am Link to this comment

“Much ado about nothing”

Those individuals who would mis-characterize an opposition to military intervention of another nation as support for a reprehensible dictator only besmirch themselves.

I took pains to re-read the entire thread and found not one single sentence or hint in support of Ghaddafy . Thus the line of illogical is exposed.

Whether with boots on the ground or in the air, murder is still murder, and the reasons behind such intercessions in some places while ignoring desperation and injustice in others remains OIL.

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By Leefeller, August 28, 2011 at 7:59 am Link to this comment

If I was going to fret about someone or a group who would like to change my life to their way of thinking, I would fret about Perry and his kind of fanatical dogmas!

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By truthdigurhumanitarianinterventionkillerscum, August 28, 2011 at 7:33 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It’s like the Nazis won.  NATO actions are hideous and atrocious.  But at least nice guys/gals like Truthdig, Juan Cole and Chris Hedges provide these murderers a nice face.  You will all go to hell.

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By Inherit The Wind, August 28, 2011 at 7:07 am Link to this comment

Yeah, Qaddaffi’s really a good guy and not a vindictive murderer who personally OK’d the Lockerbie bombing.  Right.  Wanna buy a bridge?

There’s actually far better evidence that he sponsored terrorist acts like Lockerbie than there ever was that Saddam Hussein ever did. 

We did NOT invade to through out Qaddaffi.  His own people arose against him.  Sure, we supported them. I have no problem with that.

Would you argue that we shouldn’t have “interfered” when Hitler was running death camps that slaughtered 10-12 million people, of which half were Jews and the rest were Gays, Catholics, Gypsies, Communists, birth defects, etc?

We will see if Libya becomes like Egypt, Yemen and Tunisia, or another Somalia.

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By cpb, August 27, 2011 at 11:36 pm Link to this comment

@ ITW

You’re absolutely right, except for being wrong. Everything you say sounds, for the most part, pretty bang on; that is, presuming that the predominant official story on the situation is, for the most part, with minor and, understandable, given the context, errors or exceptions, valid.

Bollocks I say.  Absolute phreaking bollocks.

The situation can be shown to be different from that of Iraq, which in and of itself says nothing.  It is of course a different situation.  Another situation in a sequence of events however, and events with a common dominant player. 

Patterns of behavior can be understood in terms of underlying motivations.  Those motivated to ultimately put Qadaffi into the World Kangaroo Court are the same players and/or members of the same country club as those that concocted the stories that led to the invasion of Iraq.

I can’t wait to see the headlines if they can stage pulling him out of a hole in the desert.

No offence, but I still say bollocks.

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By Inherit The Wind, August 27, 2011 at 2:58 pm Link to this comment

I am reminded of the defenders of Stalin’s legacy, pretending that one of the most psychopathic criminal minds that ever existed was really a hero who built Russia into a Great Power, when, in fact he destroyed more than he built.  His paranoia caused him to decimate the Soviet military between 1939 and 1941, which resulted in MILLIONS of Soviet citizens dying needlessly in WWII.  He deliberately starved millions to death in the western SSRs, especially Ukraine, to force collective farming, which never worked well.

Yet there are those fools and idiots who claim that Stalin has been “slandered” by the West and by corrupt Russian officials, as all they can remember is when the world feared the Soviet Union.  Now I hear the same twisted, corrupted fool voices trying to paint Qaddaffi as some kind of hero rather than the Stalinist control freak he is.  Like Robert Mugabe, Qaddaffi arose to fight evil and corruption and ended up far more evil and corrupt than what he threw out.  The rigidly “devout” phony Muslim, who kept a buxom blonde European “Nurse” to care for his “needs”.  Like OBL, who was found to have a stash of pornography, while he advocated stoning women who committed adultery.

I find it both hilarious and revolting to see Qaddaffi defended by “the usual gang of i…..s”

The situation is NOTHING like Iraq. Nothing. And Congress has, in its wisdom or foolishness, given the President the power to act rapidly with military force rather than have an endless debate filibustered by partisans as to whether we should act or not. 

But Bush LIED to Congress to get authorization for a major invasion.  Obama didn’t lie to Congress and we didn’t invade Libya.  One raindrop is NOT the same as an ocean.

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By cpb, August 26, 2011 at 7:47 am Link to this comment

christian96

Hypocrite and Troll

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By ardee, August 26, 2011 at 2:39 am Link to this comment

christian96, August 25 at 10:16 am Link to this comment

Ardee—-The Muslims are very adept at playing peaceful to try to gather suppport and entrance to countries they deem enemies.  They are deceptive.
Sort of like politicans in Washington. According to the Koran they are instructed to kill infidels and infidels are anyone who doesn’t happen to be a Muslim.  They are waiting for the appropriate time to strike.

Really ? All 1.4 billion of them? How very scary. As to the Koran, have you actually read the words you attribute to it? Have you not read similar in both the old and new testaments?

Your point of view is simply not one that is supported by reality, and I am very sorry for you.

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By christian96, August 25, 2011 at 6:06 pm Link to this comment

Arabian Sinbad0—-Are you a Musllm?  One that has
studied the Koran?  My comments are the comments
of Walid Shoebat, an ex-Muslim who has studied the
Koran and the Bible.  Read his book, “God’s War On
Terror” before you expose your ignorance in public.

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By Arabian Sinbad, August 25, 2011 at 3:05 pm Link to this comment

@ drbhelthi, August 25 at 2:07 pm

Thank you for your informed post about the Libyan situation!

Though I posted earlier a comment the essence of which is similar to yours, your post, nevertheless, is more informative and direct in explaining the underlining causes of the war in Libya!

I salute your courage and straightforwardness in analyzing the tragic situation in Libya! I totally agree with every word you wrote in your post.

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By drbhelthi, August 25, 2011 at 2:07 pm Link to this comment

“George W. Bush had cited exactly this duty as justification for his invasion of Iraq. The invasion supposedly would free Iraqis and spare Israelis, Western Europeans and Americans from the threat of weapons of mass destruction—which Iraq did not in fact possess. Rarely has so well intentioned a proposition been so devastatingly undermined.” Excerpt from William Pfaff article

The above statement is representative of this entire article, which is a confabulation of propaganda. Remove the C.I.A. and MOSSAD operatives from Libya, and there would have been no alleged uprising in Libya. NONE. ZERO.

Muammar al-Gaddafi was attacked because he was the only Mid-Eastern ruler who refused to be bribed and bought by the international arm of the GHWBushSr entourage, essentially the C.I.A.  Gadhafi anticipated what GHWBushSr would do to his bribed puppets, as Bush did with Sadaam Hussein. NAZI/Zionist types do not tolerate dissident national leaders.  For example, look at the puppet composition of N.A.T.O., leaders which have long-since been “lock-stepped” into marching to the tune of the GHWBushSr entourage. Which NATO leaders stupidly attacked Gadhafi, who continuously refused to coöperate in the overthrow of Sadaam Hussein, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, or any country. Basically, Gadhafi refused to become a puppet to the NAZI/Zionist entourage that has overtaken the USGOV via C.I.A. infiltration.

The leaders of all countries who rallied around the Kenyan Obama, (who isn´t qualified even for candidacy to the U.S.Presidency) to attempt to defeat Muammar al Gadaffi, demonstrate lack of foresight. Their behavior is as stupid as that of people who continue to believe that an airliner could crash into the Pentagon on 9-11, without depositing tons of aluminum wreckage on the pentagon and grounds.

That al Gadaffi shared oil profits with the Libyan populace to the extent of elevating their “average” livlihood to a level similar to s.e.s. levels 3-4 in the USA, is information that will not be published by C.I.A.- controlled “news media” in the U.S.A. or Europe.  The dis-information about al Gadaffi that has been publicized by US, French and GERMAN news media is a product of the C.I.A.  It reflects the observation of the “official” C.I.A. director, William Casey, 1981, in his summary statement, “We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.”  (from first general staff meeting, 1981) as recorded by the investigative journalist, Mrs. Mae Brussell, an American patriot of the Jewish faith. Sadly, the spread of C.I.A. disinformation is increasing in the EU, especially in Germany.

Former CIA Station Chief, Mr. John Stockwell, reveals similar information about the evil, clandestine character of GHWBushSr, but much more broadly than revealed by the Chronicles of Chip Tatum. Several revealing videos by Mr. Stockwell and CIA-related whistle-blowers are found at: http://wn.com/JOHN_AND_THE_CIA

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By cpb, August 25, 2011 at 1:26 pm Link to this comment

@ ITW

Further to previous - good example…  “The oil was
supposed to pay for the war.” 

That may have been the line.  And a good line it was too! 
But the entire war was justified with lies so why should
we expect this to have been an honest expression of
intent, and thereby judge them to have ‘failed’.

Qui bono?  Because certainly there’s lots of ‘bono’ going
around.  You and I?  No bono.  We just get boned.

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By cpb, August 25, 2011 at 1:12 pm Link to this comment

@ IWT

I take your points but I guess it depends how we
interpret the intentions having gone in.  They have
permanent boots on the ground, new airbases from which
to harass and intimidate Iran, Syria et al, civil strife
which means no effective governance to challenge, a near
totalitarian constitution which includes Chicago school
economic allowances for foreign companies and on and
on…  Oil may or may not be flowing but that is beside
the point.  It was never about having the oil per se, it
was about control of the oil.  And he who controls the
oil controls much… 

I think much of what you say regards their incompetence
may be true and certainly they may not have accomplished
things exactly as they would like to have.  But their
original intentions were always misstated to the public
so who can really know.  Seeing through all that smoke
and mirrors hurts the eyes sometimes.

Peace

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By blogdog, August 25, 2011 at 12:46 pm Link to this comment

what’s ‘failed’? - the term is ‘faild state’ - failing states is the mission of NATO (i.e.
Anglo-American-led forces) - in service to the global finance oligarchy - failed
states are much easier to manipulate - exactly the mission of NATO in North
Africa - what most think hey know about the ME wars is largely propaganda

check this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2licF3t49zc
and for some levity, this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev9CyeYX-ig&NR=1

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By Inherit The Wind, August 25, 2011 at 11:51 am Link to this comment

CPB:
What failed in Iraq?  Are you kidding?
1) (and this is enough). It was clear the Bush team of Rumsfeld, Cheney, Libby, Wolfawitz et al expected to gain control of the Iraqi oil fields and undermine all the other ME states, Venezuela and Russia as suppliers of oil to the USA.  The oil revenues were supposed to pay for the war.  Have they YET got them producing?
2) They actually EXPECTED that the “liberation” would have the people of Iraq treating the US as heroes and go for Western-style democracy, of course, with tame officials didn’t happen either.  They had NO clue that there would be an armed resistance.
3) Despite the fact that it was obvious even to Tom Clancy 10 years earlier, overthrowing Saddam would be a GREAT benefit to Iran’s attempt to influence the Shi’ites in Iraq, the Bush gang had NO CLUE that it would be an “unintended consequence”.

And that’s just 3 examples of failure in Iraq.

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By Arabian Sinbad, August 25, 2011 at 10:34 am Link to this comment

@ christian96, August 25 at 10:16 am

I nominate you as the most stupid, ignoramus poster on Truthdig!

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By cpb, August 25, 2011 at 10:20 am Link to this comment

christian96 TROLL

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By christian96, August 25, 2011 at 10:16 am Link to this comment

Ardee—-The Muslims are very adept at playing
peaceful to try to gather suppport and entrance
to countries they deem enemies.  They are deceptive.
Sort of like politicans in Washington. According
to the Koran they are instructed to kill infidels
and infidels are anyone who doesn’t happen to be
a Muslim.  They are waiting for the appropriate
time to strike.  Read a book by Walid Shoebat titled
“God’s War On Terror.”  He is an ex-Muslim who reports teachings in the Koran and activities of
Muslims.

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By Arabian Sinbad, August 25, 2011 at 10:10 am Link to this comment

Well, I beg to take issue with William Pfaff’s main point as well with those who are celebrating the Libyan so-called victory.

True, Qaddafi with time turned out to become a dictator who ruled with an iron fest, but he, nevertheless, brought stability and peace to Libya. Despite his dictatorship, Libya under him was at peace internally and externally, for he never engaged in a war of aggression against any of his neighbors.

What worries me about the rebels is that they have adopted the flag of the pre-Qaddafi Western puppet monarchy of the Sanusi family as their symbol. The Sanusi King , who was toppled by Qaddafi’s revolution, was a puppet of Italy in particular and the West in general. Like the other monarchies in Jordan, Morocco, Bahrain and Saudi Arabia, the Sanusi monarchy represented a despotic system that served / serves the interest of the ruling family and their Western supporters than they served the national interests of their people.

As a revolutionary, I initially cheered Qaddafi and supported him. However, his major failure is that, with the passage of time, he started to behave like the king he deposed and allowed his family to behave like royalty. The tragedy of Qaddafi is an example of a good vision and intention that allowed itself to loose its moral compass. However, the prospect of a post-Qaddafi Libya becoming subservient to the whims and interests of Western powers does worry me a lot!

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By cpb, August 25, 2011 at 10:00 am Link to this comment

@ ITW

Further to previous, what exactly is “failed” about US
policies in Iraq?  Looks like they pretty much got what
they wanted IMO.

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By cpb, August 25, 2011 at 9:22 am Link to this comment

@ ITW

“Anyone who doesn’t see the vast fundamental difference
between our tortured, failed
policies in Iraq vs the so-far successful policy in Libya
is either a fool or morally
bankrupt.”

That’d be true, if the situation as you apparently
perceive it is also true.  There are lots of reasons to
doubt and question the official narrative on Libya
however.  In many ways, it looks exactly like Iraq 2.0.

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By Inherit The Wind, August 25, 2011 at 6:56 am Link to this comment

It becomes more obvious day by day why the Far Left and the so-called “Progressives”
doom themselves to a lifetime of oblivion.  The fundamental principle here is that
ANYONE who hates the US is “good” and anyone who supports ANY policy of the USA,
is corrupt and evil.

Anyone who doesn’t see the vast fundamental difference between our tortured, failed
policies in Iraq vs the so-far successful policy in Libya is either a fool or morally
bankrupt.  These fools believe that no matter how evil someone is, if the USA doesn’t
like him, he must really be OK and it’s a CIA/Mossad plot to discredit him.

So fucking stupid and immoral.

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By blogdog, August 24, 2011 at 11:21 pm Link to this comment

one more you’d never hear on Democracy Now, nor on Truthdig, lest it’s posted in
the comments…

http://tarpley.net/audio/getfile.php?f=20110823-WGT_on_PressTV.mp3

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By blogdog, August 24, 2011 at 7:39 pm Link to this comment

I’ve called for ‘forgiving’ Amy Goodman - she needs to make a living too,
nevertheless, look at this interview and try to imagine it on Democracy Now -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=pKR_psM-Y4E

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By grumps, August 24, 2011 at 7:17 pm Link to this comment

What does Amy Goodman have to do with this article? I believe the article was written by a Mr. Pfaff and not one mention of Ms Goodman.
However you may disagree with Ms. Goodman, she has brought my attention to a number of people that I would not have heard or read about and I do a lot of reading of alternative sites.
Let’s keep our comments about the article and not get into other articles that people may no know about.

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By ardee, August 24, 2011 at 5:17 pm Link to this comment

christian96, August 24 at 9:58 am Link to this comment

With President Obama in control cooler heads prevailed.  George Bush sent troops into Iraq which cost a lot of lives and after everything was said and done Iran benefited more from the Iraqi war. If Bush was still president troops would have been sent into Libya.  But he isn’t president and troops were not sent into Libya.

Cooler heads huh? This war would either still be raging or Khaddafy would have won without those NATO air strikes, certainly. Boots in the air? Nevertheless, it still ranks as an intercession by the west.

I am concerned about the number of nations and lands the Muslim Brotherhood are taking under their wings.  What will be the result of that development?  Time will tell.

It might or might not interest you to know that the Muslim Brotherhood is ranked as an enemy by AlQaeda. They have foresworn violence for decades now and instead work within the system.

Perhaps you might elucidate this forum as to exactly how many nations you believe to be under “their wing”......

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By cpb, August 24, 2011 at 5:06 pm Link to this comment

@ grumps

I can’t speak with authority but from what I’ve read
here and there (and who can keep track of it all):

Libyan oil falls into the ‘sweet crude’ category.  2%
may not seem like much but it is still estimated 2%
of WORLD reserves.  The sweet stuff is so called
because it is easier to pump, easier to refine, thus
cheaper to refine, thus more profitable.

There are stories about banking issues also, as you
allude to - oil nations who threaten to abandon the
greenback seem to suffer, or so it is contended.  I
think the Bank of Intl. Settlements played a role in
at least one story I tripped over.

Other resources - as with Afghanistan, upon arrival
and inspection they ‘discover’ all kinds of valuable
things, poppies aside.

Water - I’ve read that there is a massive and pure
aquifer beneath the sands.  The next war… they say.

Peace

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By grumps, August 24, 2011 at 4:31 pm Link to this comment

This is an interesting article by Ellen Brown, author of Web of Debt.
Maybe it’s not all about oil since they only produce 2% of the world’s oil.
Libya: All About Oil, or All About Banking?

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By Michael Cavlan RN, August 24, 2011 at 3:12 pm Link to this comment

Tropic Girl and in fact anyone else interested in the truth about Libya. Forget Amy Goodman.

Check out
globalresearch.ca

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By cpb, August 24, 2011 at 2:48 pm Link to this comment

“Never believe anything until the government categorically
denies it.”

George Carlin?

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By tropicgirl, August 24, 2011 at 1:32 pm Link to this comment

First of all, there is NO forgiveness for Amy Goodman. She can take all her hard work and flush it down the globalist toilet. And she knows it. Just look at her face. She is totally and completely done. She couldn’t even allow Jeremy Skahill, the “should-be” award winner of investigative journalism regarding torture, rendition, and so on. He set the standard. She really, really stinks, and will go down in history, if we are allowed to record one, by her bosses, and the largest sellout. And I was a donor.

And William…. I think today I have heard the most disgusting report I have ever heard in my life, from a what do you call yourself? a NUT-JOB PROGRESSIVE? So war for oil was a no-no for you, when the “other football team was in…” But now, invasion and occupation is just fine? You suck.

I can’t wait to see what they do to Israel. No one is safe.

And, your WONDERFUL NUTJOB REVOLUTION just ushered in the clitjobbers and the black killers. Oh, and those journalists holed up?... by the so-called wonderful revolutionaries, who can’t wait to rape the women, like they did in Cairo.

Qaddafi is still there despite the spook NATO special forces on the ground supporting mobs of US/UK/French/Qatari backed Al Qaeda thugs currently swarming Tripoli. “Illustrious” news agencies from the Qatari government’s AlJazeera, to the now exposed frauds at CNN, BBC, Reuters, AP, AFP have been caught perpetuating a concerted war propaganda campaign in order to break the will of both Libya and in particular Tripoli.

These are overt, verified lies as part of what may be the biggest psychological operation in modern history. Al Jazeera who was already featuring lofty “The Last Days of Gaddafi” narratives is now forced to face reality and irrefutable evidence that the rebel operations in Tripoli were clearly over-hyped war propaganda and the reality is Qaddafi and the Libyan people have called NATO’s bluff.

The Western media has become so absurd, that their recent farcical attempt to save face regarding Saif’s appearance before journalists at the Riox included an Al Jazeera report claiming that rebel leaders had confirmation Saif al-Islam was arrested “but have no idea how he escaped.” To help out the media it might be suggested that Saif was never captured in the first place and that reports of his arrest were simply a ploy to embolden rebels and make it appear as if the momentum had swung in favor of NATO.

This is like watching Spain fall to Franco, with no civilized country helping. These thugs are simply running around the city causing havoc, killing small groups of people at random.

Folks, proud of your country yet? O-Ridiculous never had a peaceful intention in his life.

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By Morpheus, August 24, 2011 at 12:57 pm Link to this comment

Hopefully we will find the courage to through off our own two party dictatorship.

“WAKE UP PEOPLE!”  - The revolution has started. If you are an American you have to Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( http://www.revolution2.osixs.org )

FIGHT THE CAUSE - NOT THE SYMPTOM

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By cpb, August 24, 2011 at 11:48 am Link to this comment

“With President Obama in control cooler heads
prevailed.  George Bush sent troops into Iraq
which cost a lot of lives and after everything
was said and done Iran benefited more from the
Iraqi war. If Bush was still president troops
would have been sent into Libya.  But he isn’t
president and troops were not sent into Libya.
I am concerned about the number of nations and
lands the Muslim Brotherhood are taking under
their wings.  What will be the result of that
development?  Time will tell.”

I call Troll.

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By christian96, August 24, 2011 at 9:58 am Link to this comment

With President Obama in control cooler heads
prevailed.  George Bush sent troops into Iraq
which cost a lot of lives and after everything
was said and done Iran benefited more from the
Iraqi war. If Bush was still president troops
would have been sent into Libya.  But he isn’t
president and troops were not sent into Libya.
I am concerned about the number of nations and
lands the Muslim Brotherhood are taking under
their wings.  What will be the result of that
development?  Time will tell.

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By madisolation, August 24, 2011 at 9:40 am Link to this comment

Michael Calvin, RN—
Hello! Justin Raimondo is the go-to person when it comes to all the wars Clinton, Bush, and Obama have leashed upon the citizens of other countries. Talk about speaking truth to power: he’s done that for years and years. So much so that the FBI has recently decided antiwar.com is “a threat to National Security” and Raimondo is an “agent of a foreign power” (“What “foreign power” would that be – Libertopia? Galt’s Gulch?” Raimondo wrote). Raimondo has had to cancel his fall speaking tour of college campuses, because he’s not getting on a plane, and I don’t blame him. Under Obama, the lights are going out in America.

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By smartnsweet1, August 24, 2011 at 9:18 am Link to this comment

Pfaff’s column is both neoliberal disinfo and propaganda.  Why Scheer and his team, who usually present domestic issues from a valid and direct progressive perspective, allow the perpetuation of the corrupt fascist-imperialist agenda and spin is beyond me.  (Funding?  Agreement with UK-US Middle East strategy?)  I weep for the country we have lost (the United States of America) and fear for the world we are leaving our children.  I am an indentured servant in imperial Rome with no hope for the future.  There is no safe haven (where social democracy and pacifism rule) to which I and my family can flee and live our lives in an ethically-honorable, quiet peace. Trust nothing, and pray for rain.

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By Leefeller, August 24, 2011 at 9:05 am Link to this comment

Another bowl game, Libya rebels have won the play offs, now they still have the super bowl!

Unfortunately my skepticism seeks leverage over my hope, for the revolution in Libya may be like most others, a frenzied jockeying of opportunists who until now have been waiting in the wings to take power,...one only need look at Mexico for example!

What will follow remains to be seen. 

As all the springing Arabs will be duped to the side for opportunistic democracy, (Fascisim?) like what we have here in the good old USA. Predictions, guesses or….Hope that I am wrong and they can do better than US, I doubt it in the new world scheme of things.

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By Michael Cavlan RN, August 24, 2011 at 8:59 am Link to this comment

NABNYC

No, not everyone in this country is drunk. Lots of us “get it.”

We just do not get articles published at Truthdig, or have shows on MSNBC (GE Brings Good Things To Life) Air America or any of the other plethora of media outlets which cheer on the latest liberal wars.

On firedoglake though, dissenting views are not only allowed to be published, they seem to be encouraged.

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By NABNYC, August 24, 2011 at 8:46 am Link to this comment

It’s okay with me if the people in Libya want to change governments.  It’s none of my business.  Unfortunately, our government and much of our population don’t understand that, so now we have loyal democrat Obama campaign workers cheering this unconstitutional war of aggression waged by the U.S. government, at a cost of at least One Billion Dollars of my money, on behalf of oil corporations who are intent on stealing all the oil in Libya. 

How can people be so short-sighted, have such poor memories, or fail to see that no matter the merits of any side in this civil war, it is not the place of the U.S. to get involved.

I remember when Clinton took the nation into the Yugoslavian wars, and liberals across the country flocked to a new doctrine of “aggressive wars are okay to prevent slaughter.”  What is war except slaughter?  By definition, that’s what it is.  So the new doctrine, in truth, is that wars of aggression are no longer international war crimes, when carried out by the U.S.  When Bush-cheney did it, it was an international war crime.  When Obama does it, it is an international war crime. 

Is the entire nation drunk?  Do people refuse to understand that our economy is in the tank, and we cannot afford to spend all our money waging wars against everyone?  We’ve just finished Libya, now onto Syria, of course Iran is still in our sights.  Not to mention the on-going war in Columbia to help Wall Street get complete control of the drug profits from that country.  And now we are directly involved in a new war in Mexico, to get control of the drug profits in that nation as well.  With 20% of our children hungry every day (25% in California), 55,000 Americans dying every year from lack of affordable healthcare, and now disabled people being told they will no longer receive any support, schools being shut down and teachers fired, bridges collapsing, this insanity gives new meaning to the term guns not butter. 

Finally, the constitution authorizes the federal government to provide for the defense of our country.  It does not authorize the government to provide for the defense of every other country in the world.  Our framers repeatedly warned that our country should never commit our nation’s treasure, the blood of our young, on foreign wars.  Defend the country means defend it at the borders, not wage wars of aggression against everyone else in the world.  I would even argue these pacts are unconstitutional—the U.S. now has pacts and treaties to defend everyone, get into everybody else’s wars. 

We know these wars are waged at the direction of Wall Street, which seeks only to illegaly gain control of all the resources in the world, install puppet dictators who will follow the directions of the financiers, enslave the people.  So why are so many liberals cheering yet another war of aggression which reminds me of Mussolini invading Ethiopia.  Yeah!  We beat that tiny little nation.  Which doesn’t mean that I think Qadaffi was a good guy.  It just means that the CIA mercenaries that our government calls “rebels” will likely be as bad or worse.

We need to amend our constitution to clarify that our government is prohibited from involving this nation in any foreign war, other than under limited circumstances which would include a public vote.  Either that or, like Rome, the nation will collapse.

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By Dale Johnson, August 24, 2011 at 8:35 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This is way off base, something you might expect to see on CNN, but not on Truthdig!

This was a WAR declared by the U.S. on Libya using NATO as proxy.  The bombing killed thousands, involved attempts at assassination of Quaddafi and his family, and is mostly about bringing Libya into the Western orbit and oil.

Get real.

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By Michael Cavlan RN, August 24, 2011 at 7:35 am Link to this comment

Madison Isolation

How very well put. I guess you can forget your TruthDigger Of The Week Award as well.

Far too much real truth to power.

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By madisolation, August 24, 2011 at 5:40 am Link to this comment

Here’s what Justin Raimondo at antiwar.com has to say:

“As many have noted, we are facing yet another “Mission Accomplished!” moment…Rachel Maddow declaring that war skeptics have been “proven wrong” by the apparent taking of Tripoli is like Jonah Goldberg hailing Iraqis “dancing for joy” at the “liberation” of their country by the US. You’ll have to dig way back in the Antiwar.com archives to find that one, but isn’t it downright weird how a Maddow can turn into a Goldberg?”

Private military contractors are, as Raimondo writes, “crawling all over Libya,” and:

“How long before we get the real bill – not the measly $1 billion being touted as the cost. Mind you, that’s just the initial bill, and doesn’t include the other costs buried deep in the “black budget” we aren’t allowed to even know about, let alone question. America owns Libya now, and you can be sure we’ll be paying top dollar for it. Empires cost money, and most of us ordinary folk will wind up getting the check, while others feast on the spoils.”
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2011/08/23/libya-obamas-pyrrhic-victory/
You’re either for war or against it.

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By ardee, August 24, 2011 at 4:40 am Link to this comment

Fred LaMotte, August 24 at 4:33 am

Exactly WTF have “we” gotten right?

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By Fred LaMotte, August 24, 2011 at 4:33 am Link to this comment

Why don’t you give Obama some credit instead of trashing the U.S. even when we get it right.

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By logan1, August 24, 2011 at 2:15 am Link to this comment

William Pfaff makes himself look like a total clown by claiming in his opening statement that ‘The most significant and easily disregarded lesson of the successful Libyan uprising, as of the Egyptian and Tunisian risings that preceded it, is that the Arabs did it themselves.”  What the Hell is this guy smoking and/or dropping?  PCP dusted Pentagon koolaid? 

Here is how Time Magazine, no less, described the actual situation way back on April 1, 2011, as the magazine factually discussed the principal leader of the US/ NATO backed anti Gaddafi Libyan platoon they had begun to organize for
the Pentagon in North Africa….

‘As for (Mahmoud) Gebril, his grand international debut came on Tuesday, when foreign ministers from more than 36 countries, as well as U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon, converged in London to thrash out a plan on how to oust Gaddafi and save the rebels. Hosted by British Prime Minister David Cameron, it was the first gathering of the sprawling coalition since the West began bombing Libya on March 19. Yet despite the high-profile guest list, the man most in demand was a slightly tubby, slightly balding policy wonk whom most of the diplomats had only become aware of a few weeks earlier, when Gebril was filmed shaking hands with French President Nicolas Sarkozy at the Elyseé Palace, moments before Sarkozy announced that he was recognizing Libya’s rebels as the country’s true government.

On Tuesday, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton began the day’s frenzied diplomacy with a closed-door meeting with Gebril, who also had discussions with Cameron, British Foreign Secretary William Hague, and French Foreign Minister Alain Juppé, before jetting off to Qatar that evening for further talks there.’


The full article is at
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2062617,00.html#ixzz1Vw4u
SU2g

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By LA_CC, August 24, 2011 at 12:48 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I seem to recall Libyans asking for the intervention as
they were being shot during their protests. I haven’t
followed this story very closely, but some of the
comments here are confusing to me. At least we tried a
better approach this time, I think. This was nothing
like the disgrace in Iraq and so many other places.

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By TKS, August 24, 2011 at 12:16 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I am baffled that Pfaff thinks that what we’re seeing in Libya isn’t the direct result of the US and its western allies. It’s as though Pfaff is still in High School and forgot he had homework, forcing him to write his “current events” paper ten minutes before class. Truthdig should be embarrassed by this crap. It is also unclear why Amy Goodman has anything to do with this…

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By smdrhk, August 24, 2011 at 12:11 am Link to this comment

I hope that the same situation won’t arise again!

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By EmileZ, August 23, 2011 at 11:40 pm Link to this comment

@ blogdog

What did Amy Goodman do to this woman???

Has Amy Goodman not paid YOU the attention you would like to recieve???

Sounds like you have a similar gripe.

I think she is a good person and I appreciate her hard work. I will leave it at that.

Please forgive ME if you can find it in your heart.

I am sorry.

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By Robespierre115, August 23, 2011 at 11:32 pm Link to this comment

Pfaff is a total idiot or a willing propagandist for liberals’ brand of neocon adventurism.

“The most significant and easily disregarded lesson of the successful Libyan uprising, as of the Egyptian and Tunisian risings that preceded it, is that the Arabs did it themselves. That is bad news for the United States.”

This is pure propaganda, the rebels themselves admit they would never have made such advances without NATO’s intervention (and NATO basically means the U.S.). For common sense analysis ignore Pfaff’s bullshit and read REAL writers:

Pepe Escobar of the Asia Times:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MH24Ak01.html

Excerpt:

How NATO won the war
T
he spectacular reappearing act of Gaddafi’s son Saif al-Gaddafi notwithstanding, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) has virtually won the Libyan civil war (or “kinetic military activity”, according to the White House). The masses of “Libyan people” were spectators at best, or bit part actors in the form of a few thousand “rebels” carrying kalashnikovs.

The top billing was R2P (“responsibility to protect”). From the beginning R2P, manned by France and Britain and backed by the US, magically turned into regime change. That led to the unsung stars in this production being Western and monarchical Arab “advisers”, as in “contractors” or “mercenaries”.

NATO started winning the war by launching Operation Siren at Iftar - the break of the Ramadan fast - last Saturday evening, Libya time. “Siren” was the codename for an invasion of Tripoli. That was NATO’s final - and desperate - power play, after the chaotic “rebels” had gone nowhere after five months of fighting Gaddafi’s forces.
Until then, NATO’s plan A was to try to kill Gaddafi.

What R2P cheerleaders - left and right - had dubbed “steady NATO attrition” boiled down to praying for three outcomes; Gaddafi killed, Gaddafi surrenders, Gaddafi flees.

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By blogdog, August 23, 2011 at 11:15 pm Link to this comment

RE: “...consider forgiving Amy Goodman.”  - indeed, everyone deserves to make
a living and without DN’s foundation support and Amy’s book deals and lecture
tours, she’d just be another podcaster/blogger on food stamps - believe me, I
sympathize - if only she weren’t held up as a social-justice icon

next time you attend one of her lectures, ask her why she gives disc-copy-boy
Bradly Manning so much DN time, but shows no interest in genuine-asset-
whistle-blower Susan Lindauer, whose story really turns the global war of terror
on its head… DN’s refusing to cover her story is severely suspect

e.g. http://www.elusivetruth.com/?tag=susan-lindauer-extreme-prejudice

from the webiste:

Susan Lindauer is a former CIA asset and the 2nd cousin of Andrew Card.  She
claims she was one of the first people jailed under the Patriot Act – having been
accused of harming national security by passing information to Saddam
Hussein.  Her crime?  She wrote a letter to her relative Andrew Card urging him
to not attack Iraq.

More importantly, she claims that her CIA handler sent her to Iraq monthly in
the summer leading up to the 911 event – urging her to tell their leaders that if
they withheld any knowledge of a terror attack by airliners on the World Trade
Center that the United States would hold Iraq accountable.  She was very clear
that the CIA had advance knowledge of 911, and that they were intent on
setting up Iraq for blame for the event.

Why the hell isn’t she on TV telling this story?  Because it is not as interesting
as Natalee Holloway et al?  Not hardly.  Because it is most likely true – and it is
deliberately being kept out of the mainstream media.  As she said, “The
mainstream media went black on my case.”

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By steve pesce, August 23, 2011 at 10:54 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This is really sick.  Is Truthdig turning into a neocon warmonger page?  Robert Sheer, where the heck are you, on vacation?  What’s going on with you guys!  Stop this now!

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By EmileZ, August 23, 2011 at 10:39 pm Link to this comment

@ Michael Calvan RN

I really think you should consider forgiving Amy Goodman.

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By Michael Cavlan RN, August 23, 2011 at 10:25 pm Link to this comment

Blue Dog

Agreed. The coverage on this has been stunning. Unless of course one is an apologist for the rotten US NATO system. Apparently Russia Today TV has journalists on the ground who are giving a whole different story.

As an aside, I saw “my” Congressman, the great liberal Progressive Caucus Co-Chair on Ed Schultz cheering on this imperialist action. Good old “liberal” “progressive” Ed Schultz.

Of course while Cynthia McKinney was there the great “liberal” media including Amy Goodman were refusing to interview her.

Oh wait, Amy Goodman is one more apologist for this rotten system, so of course she gets “ink” at Truthdig.

There it goes again. My chance for A TruthDigger Of The Week Award at Truthdig. Speaking too much truth will do that.

Wake up folks. You are getting played.

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By MeHere, August 23, 2011 at 10:03 pm Link to this comment

The overt and covert actions of NATO in Libya, with the US in leadership positions,
still qualify as being highly interventionist and may have already marred the
authenticity of the uprising.

There’s no doubt that the next task for the US and allies (including Israel and
maybe other Arab nations)) will be how to set up more modern versions of the
Gadaffis and the Mubaraks in the liberated nations.

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By ardee, August 23, 2011 at 7:14 pm Link to this comment

Victory is quite a word, what comes next is the important stuff. Can the disparate entities that fought their way into power create a government that will satisfy them all? Can the new Libyan government resist the blandishments of the West or will they be mesmerized by offers of aid (money), succumb to individual greed and fail in their ultimate goal?

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By blogdog, August 23, 2011 at 5:03 pm Link to this comment

NATO is desperate to claim victory - pretext to land a huge force to prop up the
ginned up, al-CIA-duh ‘rebels’, who are already seeded with NATO special forces
- these MSM reports are severe disinformation in service to NATO - check this
report

http://tarpley.net/audio/getfile.php?f=20110823-WGT_on_AJS.mp3

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By EmileZ, August 23, 2011 at 4:51 pm Link to this comment

I’m watching, waiting, and hoping for the best.

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