Dear Alex,  I looked it up and the Oglesby book was -Containment and Change 1969. The beat goes on. Nothing has changed….Resonable folks can agree to disagree concerning the Occupy movement. God bless it.
My thinking is , as I tried to explain, that reform or tinkering with the system ,will in the long run, result in no change at all.THat’s the history of reform movements in the U.S. The vampires always remain in charge. A radical redirection is needed and since there is small chance of that etc. etc…..Anyway, thanks for the reply.  Ed R

Mr. Fraser,  Sorry to hear that Carl Ogelsby has passed. I met him several times in Boston back in the day ...forget the title of the book he wrote, but it was very influential at the time with the crowd I ran with. The occupiers must be non violent. They can’t hope to match the fire power or resourses the government has. The problem I see with them is that they seem to be looking to the people who caused the current disaster, and their stooges in Washington, to alleviate the situation. The most they can hope for is to have a few bones thrown their way. When the smoke clears they will see the same folks who caused the problem sitting across the table grinning at them.
This has been our history since at least the Civil War. Capitalism cannot be reformed….Since both of the dominant political parties represent the exact same interests….the only hope of bringing the Vampire Class under control is the formation of a party that can stand over and against the interests of the corporations….and being as there is less chance of this than the survival of a snow ball in hell (as we used to say )we old timers should just sit back in our rocking chairs sipping Johnnie Walker, watching reruns of Gunsmoke and maybe giving them a little hell once in awhile.  Ed R

Ron. You seem like a right enough fellow. but really it would not be right to let you get away with the sleight of tongue you tried to slip pass us here.
  You said in your post that ...today EVERYBODY externalizes…that is blames others for their plight. They need to internalize not blame others but themselves…...I tried to have you see that such a statement is not universally true and therefore cannot be used to cover “everybody”. I used as an example a jew who was being sent to his death by the nazis simply because of his race.I asked if he wasn’t justified in blaming the people who were taking his life and do you think he should be “internalizing” his situation and taking the blame on himself ? You replied that your statement had “nothing to do with jews going to concentration camps.” Think about this. Can’t you see how insane such a statement is ? Of course your statement has everything to do with such a case and of course he is justified in externalizing the event and , in fact, would be a little bit cracked if he didn’t ......... What does this have do with those folks today who, according to you, should be “internalizing ” their plight? Just this.
They had no hand in creating the society that is stunting their lives….they are powerless.. but there ARE people who do have a hand in shaping the world the rest of us must live in and therfore the disinherited are more than justified in externalizing their anger…as much as they would be if they caught someone burglarizing their home…..Perhaps you were trying to say that we have a duty to recognize our faults and try to overcome them. But that is quite a different matter.  Ed R

Christian, Interesting. I am a non demoninational christian, or am trying to be. Since I believe that organized religions are a scourge on the earth I am the only parishoner in my lonely church. What passes for Christianity in the U.S. would be hillarious if it wasn’t so tragic. Keep plugging.  Ed R

Thanks to all who gave me forty lashes with a wet noodle, enjoyed reading them. I want ot thank all of you for writng cogent letters… Usually, and i think there are a couple submitted thatresorted to emotional attacks… but almost all of them were well sincere commments.

I’m 69, Joined the antiwar movement in feb. 1065, and went to the last march on may day, 1975.  I was totally non-violent. I was audited by the IRS in 1971 because i made 1200 dollars that year. Draw your own conclusions. But that was a small prize to pay for my free speech activities and I am acutally proud of the audit. But i did not externize and accepted the opportunity to have free speech. Essentially, my overall point is externalization is a psychological term… Nothing to due with Jews going to the concentraton camp… truely a horrible crime. Yes, life is unfair, but blaming others is not the solution. There are many bumps in the road of life. one must internalize to climb over them… and by doing so, one is more free and stronger. So, often people who externalize come to these bumps and they are stalled. And their lives are stalled.

Yes, life is unfair. but as John McWorter said about racism. “Racism was an inconvence, not a obstruction.” This is my point. Dr McWorter is a well know linguist, the hier apparent to Chomsky and Laktof.

If you are interested, I wrote a three volume historical fiction tome on the sixties… Titled “covenant betrayed, (AKA Mark Dahl) I wrote the book in 1985 to give young people a since of what it was like in the sixties. Today, may young people have a false since of the sixties. ie, sex drugs and rock and roll. To me it was a very painful poart of our history.

Thanks again for all the comments. ron

Ed—-I am a Christian by religious beliefs.  I have
been studying the Bible for almost 35 years.  I
probably know it better than most preachers.  I am
different from the socalled “average” Christian.
There is nothing in the Bible about December 25th
being the date Jesus was born.  There is nothing
in the Bible about celebrating birthdays.  On the
contrary, Ecclessiates 7:1 reads, “the day of one’s
death is better than the day of one’s birth.”  The
word Easter only appears once in the Bible and it was
wrongly translated.  It should read “Passsover.”
I keep the seven festivals God commanded the Jews to
keep.  I keep the dietary laws discussed in the book
of Leviticus.  That means no pig meat.  No sausage
or pepperoni on my pizzas.  Most mail line Christians
think I am wrong but I think they are wrong. 
While attending undergraduate school I worked midnight shift in the coal mines where I was raised
in West Virginia.  I belonged to the United Mine
Workers of America.  I had a personality conflict with the main boss and he fired me.  The union got
my job back for me.  If there had been a strong union
at the university where I taught I wouldn’t have lost
my teaching job. 
These wealthy people thinking they are getting away
with their deceptions and corruptions but according
to the Bible there is coming a day of darkness on
earth when the wealthy will throw their silver and
gold into the streets because of the misery coming
upon them.  Personally.  I think this day of great
tribulation will involve electricity.  I’ve been
watching documentaries on various channels. Scientists are worried about sun-bursts possibly
turning off the electricity on earth.  If that happens all hell will break loose.  A period of
great tribulation.

Christian I can dig it ( as we used to say ). I am anti capitalist, but I am not a communist. During the Vitenam War I edited an anti war monthly that tried to explain what the war meant to working Americans. The FBI went to my local Union, said I was a communist ( I am not now nor have I ever…etc etc. ) and I was secretly black balled…..the majority of wealthy people get their money by taking the cream off the top of what labor creates. A man can not become a billionaire through his own labor. Attempts to have it otherwise are like trying to square the circle. Having said this…we are not going to get rid of this bane any time soon. But if enough people become aware of the problem perhaps the extreme rapaciousness that we have expeienced can be blunted. Something must be done to bring these corporations under reasonable control. My fear is that capitalism will eventually result in so much social unrest that a military take over will occur….I am too old for this to be a personal fear but after a lifetime of activism it would be gratifying to see a little result….. Is Christian your proper name or is it your aspiration ?    Ed R

Ed Romano—-I couldn’t agree with you more.  I have
taken a little slack myself.  I was teaching Eduucational Psychology at a university in Southwestern Virginia in November 1976 when an article came out in the school newspaper announcing
that I would be appearing on a talkshow in Lynchburg, Virginia to discuss why wealthy people
neglect poor people.  The day after the article
appearred in the school newspaper the Dean of Education called me into his office and told me my
contract would not be renewed the following year.
I was never able to locate a university teaching position after that experience.  I went ahead and
appeared on the program which was moderated by a
black fellow.  We had an interesting discussion for
30 minutes but I lost my teaching position and the
black moderator lost his TV program.  You can say
what you want in America but that doesn’t mean you
won’t lose your job.  If I had a strong union backing
me that would never have happened.  I am not anti-capitalism. I am not communist.  However, I am anti-wealthy people deceiving and manipulating poor people.

Christian,  I know this response will raise the hackles on any flag wavewrs who read it, but you asked…. The long nightmare is this…everything capitalism lays its dead hand on becomes a nightmare….economically, culturally and spiritually.
Last night the republican wannabes had a “debate” on t.v. I think it was Romney who said that the free enterprise system has created the greatest economy the world has ever seen. Unfortunately there was no one there to point out that tens of millions of people
had to die or have their lives stunted to achieve that creation. The extra car in the driveway and the pool in the back yard that we experienced in the 50’s 60’s and 70’s were made possible by the fact that capitalism was wringing the life blood out of other economies around the world. Now that those opportunities are shrinking because of competition from China and other emerging economies…American capitalists are bringing the pain home. But, I believe, we have only just begun to experience the pain they have in store for us…..Capitalism has its own flag- the dollar bill. The one with stars and stripes on it they use to hypnotize us with.Our economy is now sliding down the poop shute because American corporations dismantled the manufacturing
capability here and shipped it overseas in search of cheap labor. How this affected the well being of the nation was of no concern to them. .....I should stop here so I will. I’m not comfortable laying out these ideas because the flag wavers have taken action against me in the past. But I’ve been around a long time and I’m still at it…..  Ed R

Ed Romano—-I’m not sure what you mean by “hoping
the long nightmare will go away.”  Economic nightmare? Moral nightmare? Spiritual nightmare?
Political nightmare?  Perhaps, you mean, “all the
above.”

Christian,  I think you may be coming across a little too reasonable here. History shows that this will not get you far…especially in this country. Perhaps the money would be better spent if they tried to enhance the bit of intelligence we seemingly have in the U.S. Then again….there may be more intelligent folks here than we realize. Maybe they have just put bars on their windows and are keeping their mouths shut hoping the long nightmare will go away.  Ed R

As poverty rises in America and is off the chart in
India, Africa and other nations I just finished
watching a program on The Science Channel titled
“Through The Wormhole.” TTW is a series of programs.
This particular program discussed the efforts of SETI(Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) to
find ET somewhere out there in the vast cosmos.
SEIT has been searching for 50 years without a peep
from ET.  The program didn’t mention the number of
astronomies throughout the world involved in the
search for ET.  It also didn’t mention the number
of above average intelligence personnel sitting around the world for 50 years staring at computer
screens WITH NO RESULTS.  Neither did the program
mention the amount of resources and money spent by
NASA to launch rockets throughout the universe in
this quest to find ET.  If politicians in Washington
really want to trim the budget have they ever considered scratching the SETI project?  Couldn’t
all that wasted time and resources be redirected
for finding means for eliminating poverty ON EARTH.
Would somebody go knock on one of the doors of
SETI and advise them “THERE IS LIFE ON EARTH AND
IT GENERALLY ISN’T DOING VERY WELL.”

Just world fallacy.

There are too many USAn’s deluded by the infantile idea that everyone deserves what hey get, you know, career-wise.

I thought Bush II put that idiocy to rest.

Why do Americans blame poor health on smoking, obesity and drinking? Because they don’t want to spend their money on sick people who deserve to die.

Why do Europeans and and Japanese who smoke and drink more than we do have better health outcomes and longevity? Because they have access to health care.

Case closed.

an overwhelming number of people in goodoldusa are trained not to
think. and the trainees have not noticed it yet.
i hope OWS has. and would tell people that that’s what’s been happening
in usa and happening ‘better’ than in any other land save perhaps in
imperial japan. thanks, bozhidar balkas, vancouver

Ron, seems you’ve taken a bit of a verbal beating here for your reply to my wise guy posting. I’m sure you honestly believc the things you said,and please don’t take my remarks as an assault on your intellect. All I would ask is that you do some serious thinking about the things you said and the philosophy that lies bnehind them.
  ” Externalization is a mental diisorder” ? How would it do to tell a jew on his way to a concentration camp that he should accept his fate as his own fault?
  Yes. the problem of malnutritionin Africa is, from all reports, worse than it is in the U.S. Does that mean that American children can’t be suffering from it? The Boston Globe reported a few weeks ago that Boston hospitals have been seeing an increase in child malnutrition since the economic “downturn” Of course, millions of our fellows have been suffering from a downturn long before the market pooped the bed. For example, it is reported that upwards of half of black men have never had a job by the age of thirty. ( I had the personal experience a few years ago of standing in line for an employment application at Motorola. An application was given to the man who stood in front of the man just ahead of me. When it was the next man’s turn he was told they wern’t hiring.He was a black man. As a he stepped out of line an application was handed to me. Should he have internalized the gross injustice that had just been visited on him?
  ” If you work hard the skys the limit”? Think about this, Ron. Nowadays a minority of people who start with little of nothing achieve whatever’s up there in the sky. But the exception doed not prove the rule. This is not the experience of the majority. Nor can it ever be. Just imagine how society would be constructed if everyone became rich.
Where would the capitalists turn for workers to exploit ? And how would they become rich if they had no labor to exploit ?
  Why should we be surprised at a Wall St. bailout? It’s their government and since the economic ruling class is ALWAYS the political ruling class do we suppose that the government was going to use the treasuryy to benefit those who were the victims of Wall St. ?
  Finally, why does the alternative to raw capitalism have to be Marxism ? There are other models that have proved able to stunt the rapacity of American style capitalism….some them quite successful.
  I have gone on a little too long here. Ron but I sensed that you are a son of the working class and it always grieves me to see someone like that swallowing the myths that the Vampire class generates to befuddle the people they preying on.
                Good Luck,  Ed R

i suggest that poverty, education, threats of warfare, warfare, ignorance, too much freedoms for a few
and serfdom for many is manufactured.
and by whom? by clero-noble class in ancient times of sumer/egypt and now by the same-thinking but
modern clero-money people class.
this is odious to god and nature.
in short, poverty and all other ills stem from clero-plutocratic people’s ideology and their obedient
‘elite’: ‘teachers’, generals, cia/fbi agents, banksters, et al.
alas, in u.s 98% of americans voted ‘08 for continuance of own serfdom, total,
dependence/disempowerment, miseducation, no education, no right to know, etc.
such an event does not occur in any other land.
mind you, the poorer ALL AMERICANS WOULD GET the better it would be for them and us. but that’s
another topic altogether. and i don’t want to get into it. i prefer scientists do that for us all! thanks

Ed, thanks for your comment. but you are putting words in my mouth and make an assumption to what I think. This is exactly my point.

Yes people have hard times… but adversity makes one stronger. We have free will. Yes, this too is an assumption.

The point I would like to make is that today everybody externalize, that is blame others for there plight. Externalization is a mental health disorder.

The primary therapy, is to get the individual to internalize, not blame others but to take charge of their life. and bring about changes in themselves.

Hence, when society takes on the responsibility, it is really harming and enslaving the individual and robbing their souls.

I simply do not see people dying like flies of mal nutrition, as in Africa.

In the Hebrew Bible, in leviticus, it says” When you harvest your wheat, leave 10 % for the poor and the downtrodden. PERIOD…” what is enlightening about this is that it does not say, harvest the 10%, grind the grain, bake the bread and distribute it to the poor…

If we did we would only enslave them more and make them totally dependant on us… And then they are not free.

Our poor in the united states are rich compared to the rest of the world. Also,ask youself why everybody in the world want to come to the United States… It is called freedom… Everyone gets 12 years of free education… and if they work hard the sky’s the limit. We as a nation have this national sickness of mass externalization… as mentioned a mental illness.

So what is the solution… I actually think that we should elect a Marxist to be president. Why, My assumption is that this will just make everybody poorer faster, and only then will the people long for the days of capitalism

I know that everybody is angry with wall street, Me too, I oppoesed the bailout. crony capitalism is phoney capialism, actually not capitalism at all but what i call fascism.

Adam smith defined Capitalism as: free trade, free market, and the most important, a level playing field.

Crony capitalism is not a level playing field. My opinion is that the faught lies with the voters. We are the ones who elect these people in congress… As Pogo said, “We met the enemy and the enemy is us.”

thanks for you comments… ron hansing

Ah yes ! These neer-do-wells are living a little too high off the hog. Then again they could have pulled themselves up by their toe nails ....if only they had the gumption. They’re a disgrace to the nation and too many people sleeping on the sidewalks at night make the free enterprise system look bad. Anyway, since we can’t really prove any “cause and effect” why don’t we just ignore the whole thing and go shopping.

When Evita Peron tossed money from the balcony to the poor, they loved her…. when the money ran out, they despised her.

Yes it will get worse…

I am amazed that all these poor people have cell phones, cable, food stamps, free medical care, cheap housing and earned income tax credit.

Social “Science” is not a science. It is impossible to control the experiment. the only tool they have is statistics… but if an unknown value is not put in the equation, the result is meaningless. Even if the data is valid, it is just a correlation… not cause and affect… and with the correlation, researcher make assumptions… which is just a gut decision or agenda driven to prove their own point… hence, not a science.

99% of the information we read today is agenda driven assumption written by people who can magically read other people’s minds. they shold work for the CIA… then maybe, we would not have invaded Iraq.

Sadly few people realize that they are victims of brain washing.(The psychological term: is thought conversion.)

ron hansing 1/13/12