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Truthdigger of the Week: Scott Olsen

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Posted on Nov 4, 2011
AP / Jay Finneburgh

Fellow protesters tend to Scott Olsen as he lies bleeding on the ground after suffering a head injury in Oakland, Calif.

This week, Truthdig salutes Iraq War veteran Scott Olsen, who served his country abroad and at home within the Occupy Oakland movement, as our Truthdigger of the Week. At press time, Olsen was still recovering from injuries he suffered during a confrontation with Oakland police on Oct. 25, but his sacrifice—and the jarringly ironic circumstances of his injury—still reverberates among his fellow protesters. In fact, he has become an emblematic figure at the movement’s highly active West Coast epicenter.

Over the past 10 days, as Olsen convalesced, commemorative shrines popped up at the Oakland encampment, and movement members in other cities took up his story as both a cautionary tale and an inspiration. The 24-year-old Wisconsin native had come into his own politically after serving two tours with the U.S. Marines in Iraq, as his hometown friends told Reuters after his injury, and his nascent activist impulse led him to also participate in last year’s demonstrations against Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker’s attempt to deprive government workers of collective bargaining rights. Olsen’s tech savvy eventually took him to the Bay Area, where he linked up with the local chapter of Iraq Veterans Against the War.

When he was struck down last month, reportedly by a projectile lobbed by a member of Oakland’s police force, Olsen was taking part in a march to push back against the closure of the main encampment. According to The Bay Citizen, he lay bleeding as riot police and emergency medical crews passively stood by, ultimately requiring marchers to haul him to Highland Hospital. Although Oakland’s interim Police Chief Howard Jordan visited Olsen on Oct. 29 to express the collective remorse of his precinct and confirm that law enforcement officials were investigating the incident, his case has grown into a cause for Occupiers as well as servicemen and -women whose experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as at home, have given rise to a similar political sensibility and an urge to speak out

And it wasn’t lost on Olsen’s supporters that his speech center was affected by the injury to his head. As one member of Occupy Boston declared Thursday, “His skull was fractured, his brain swelled up, and he is no longer able to speak. So we are here to speak for him.”

Check out the footage of the confrontation between Oakland police and protesters, including Scott Olsen, on Oct. 25:

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, November 25, 2011 at 11:24 am Link to this comment

There is a segment; maybe many; who beleive authorty is never wrong, and they
work overtime to see as such.

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By Smith, November 25, 2011 at 10:27 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Oh, so you chose to omit that information.

I don’t buy into the idea that a police force that uses police force against it’s citizens is necessarily wrong, that the citizens are all sweet little angels, despite things like the video on this very page showing them throwing the tear gas back at cops and the reports that some protestors in Oakland were throwing rocks and bottles at the cops.

Google “Scott Olsen Texting”, and you’ll find a screenshot from a video taken by CBS OakSan Franland, showing him using his phone. Admittedly, the website with the picture is far too the right, but I don’t see how that necessarily impacts the veracity.

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, November 22, 2011 at 6:25 am Link to this comment

Smith, no I did not forget, nor do I buy into the simplistic use of a military police force against its own citizens.

“There’s also the question of why the “unresponsive” Olsen was seen texting his friends shortly after the injury.” ....No smith this appears only as conjecture or your speculative talking point, which you seem to feel more important by calling it a question?

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By Smith, November 20, 2011 at 2:47 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

You forgot to mention that the incident in question involved protestors building a barricade when the police showed up, setting said barricade on fire, and shoot paintballs at them. The only two SFPD cops with projectile weapons checked them back in without firing them, meaning they are on record saying they should have the same number of projectiles they did when they left, and that there is a paper trail. Also, the OccupyOakland protestors were throwing rocks and bottles themselves, and there’s really a fair amount of question what exactly hit Olsen. There’s also the question of why the “unresponsive” Olsen was seen texting his friends shortly after the injury.

Then again, it seems like everyone else sympathetic to OWS conveniently forgets to mention those little details. Some “truth”.

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, November 10, 2011 at 10:39 am Link to this comment

Leefeller,

I am convinced that what you seek is retribution. I believe you’re looking forward to hurting people you personally detest. I personally detest the way you and others are using Scott Olsen for your own self-serving purpose.

You have no idea who Scott Olsen is or what he believes in. Ask 100 ‘Occupy’ protesters what they’re protesting and we’ll both get 100 different answers. What was Mr. Olsen protesting?

Does Scott Olsen believe in your 99% sloganeering? Or does he believe, as Paul Krugman does, that it’s not, in reality, the top 1% that are to be blamed for perceived ills, but rather, the top 1% of the top 1% who should be tried and convicted for actual crimes? Or was Mr. Olsen simply protesting war as so many other ‘Occupy’ attendees are?

I know it’s too much to ask you to be ashamed of yourself.

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, November 10, 2011 at 9:26 am Link to this comment

Scott Olsen is the closest thing we have to a flash point fruit vender burning himself to death in protest of gross inequality, opportunism and abuses, comparing the USA to Arab Spring has merit simply by the fact all people even Muslims are no different in wanting a better life for themselves and their families, almost everyone wants to be treated with respect and fairness, not be the target of selfish greed!

The 99 percent who are voicing their grievances toward the tired good old boy corruptions suggests people are catching on to the fact they have been in the past and are still now being taken advantage of by gross injustices, inequality and disenfranchisement promoted by a greedy 1 percent! (add your obvious list here)

Right now we are in a recession, many people in the USA have no work, the government is telling us the number is 9 percent unemployment, in all probability unemployment numbers are more like 20 percent and much higher in different sections of our society.

Seems the attitude of some people who still happen to have jobs (especially good jobs like lobbyists and Congress men)  will point their fingers and say those people of Occupy Wall Street are lazy slackers,... that is until the same person just happens to loose their job and then all of a sudden we are in a recession!

The new world order has become the devils play ground, thanks to the 1 percent!

I know my comments appear as a general rant ,  but the blatant inequality seems not to be general at all, nor is inequality new, people are so much more aware and connected to the causes of things. People are not stupid and not all people are Republicans/tea party gun carrying misinforms, cronies of the 1 percent!

Scott Olsen for now is our sacrificing fruit vendor, Scott Olsen is the 99 percent!

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, November 10, 2011 at 6:34 am Link to this comment

Leefeller,

You spent nearly this entire thread telling me how wrong I’ve been. You then feel a sense of grievance when I do the same? HA!

I’ve looked over some of your past comments. Juxtapose the Tea Party conversations of the past with OWS today and we see your inconsistent moral outrage.

Inconsistency seems to be your most consistent attribute.

-

Did you understand all that, artee-full-of-hate? LOL

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, November 9, 2011 at 5:58 pm Link to this comment

ardee-full-of-hate,

Just who do you think you’re kidding? You don’t read my posts? LOL. You live for the drama!

Jeeeeesus you are a true idiot.

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, November 9, 2011 at 5:50 pm Link to this comment

Words of wisdom coming from Imax is like expecting to purchase quality made in America products from Wal Mart! Se we need to get to work, need to not do what I am doing, it is totally the wrong way to do it, of course I have never seen your right way Imax, you way seems conveniently missing and suspiciously righty tighty, (OWS is not right or left it is right or wrong)  So the OWS is not handling it the Imax way, which apparetly appears nothing except a from of gerrymander!

Imax your capability at comprehension seems lacking and Parallels that of swamp boys and I dear say comment offer nothing but same cornucopia of moth balls!  The other similarity seems to be in the diversionary tactic and of course good old right wing politicization.

Not one micro comment of substance offered by Imax, (of course I may have missed it) if I am so wrong and you are so right, why do I and others here not engage your specifics? Because you as several others here have offered none! 

My message is to get the money out and request fairness and equality, the illumination of disenfranchisement which OWS has done a good job of. Disenfranchisement from our own bought and sold Representative fir the few government, a government beholding to special interests, called people too, corporations, the oligarchy, the poltocracy, the fat cats or as I sometimes prefer the Koch Brothers and really the 1 percent.

I will post my wrong message again and again; ‘I do not know what Scott Olsen’s specific grievances are, but I respect his right to voice them by placing his person and body in harms way to express them.’

‘Inequality and disenfranchisement sponsored by the few, the 1 percent and their overreaching manipulations are very clearly being noticed by more and more people, thanks to Scott Olsen and the front line 99 percentiles!’

‘Congratulations Occupy America, showing all of us right from wrong!’

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By ardee, November 9, 2011 at 5:24 pm Link to this comment

Kudos Leefeller

While I neither read this ego filled gas bag any longer, or recommend that others do, I rise up to applaud an excellent skewering!

Imax sincerity of your comments are not in question they are tainted, dripping with false patronizing, not a very good provocateur I would suggest, maybe a trip back to Koch Brothers Tea Bag 101 class would help!

Again nothing but crocodile tears and phoney concern as phoney support while undermining and never talking of the OWS message as I see it.

Must admit, GRYM never seemed a very bright beacon of light either!

Yes, Obfuscating is always used to keep the discussion off track.

I wish I had your talent, deflating gas bags as a higher calling!

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janmarbol's avatar

By janmarbol, November 9, 2011 at 4:45 pm Link to this comment

Please remember to share this page with friends and family. Scott’s official page is on the ‘info’ section of this page.
https://www.facebook.com/USMarineScottOlsen
The Facebook page is a support page and in no way is affiliated to him other than a show of support and being grateful to him for his support to us. Scott’s page has a donation button and according to that site, has been passed directly and in full to his direct family members.
I would like to send this to Scott so he recovers quickly! The more ‘likes”, the better! Thank you so much!

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, November 9, 2011 at 4:02 pm Link to this comment

Leefeller,

As I’ve said many times, I largely agree with you. Nevertheless I draw the line in your insistence that I agree with you in total. That leaves me stumped.

Am I correct in thinking what you’re looking for is payback while I am more interested in real and lasting results? Frankly I have no other way to explain your attitude.  You and others here are going to great lengths to ignore growing violence all over the country. It’s just not possible that you fail to see it. Simply-not-possible.

My goal is continuing in Washington and each of the 50 Statehouses with the ‘Occupy’ (your) message. Excuse me for believing, just as passionately as yourself, that what you’re doing is absolutely the wrong way to accomplish this.

I’ve looked back at your posts here on TD. Payback is not how we change things for the better. Time to get to work. Time to effect real change. Not this spoiled, petulant, project mayhem, childishness we see going on today.

And, since you’ve gone so much out of your way to hold a productive conversation, I’ll add this last thought. - If you haven’t heard me once again you need to expand your reference points. That is to say, your world is much too small. Much too rigid.

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, November 9, 2011 at 2:02 pm Link to this comment

I learned a long time ago, humoring shrills is wasted if not lost time. The constant gerrymandering by the Duffie Duo has been fun, but this article is about the Truthdigger of the week Scott Olsen, and I give him my congratulations for standing up against inequality and disenfranchisement…..Here!... Here! Scott Olsen an Iraq war veteran, Scott Olsen has placed his life on the line for his government and again in Occupy Wall Street/Oakland, because he attempted to utilize his 1st amendment rights to the same government he went to war for. A bought and sold government which shows a gross negligence to its 99 percent populous.

I do not know what Scott Olsen’s specific grievances are, but I respect his right to voice them by placing his person and body in harms way to express them. 

Inequality and disenfranchisement sponsored by the few, the 1 percent and their overreaching manipulations are very clearly being noticed by more and more people, thanks to Scott Olsen and the front line 99 percentiles!

Congratulations Occupy America, showing all of us right from wrong!

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, November 9, 2011 at 12:07 pm Link to this comment

SoCal Street Cart Vendors Hurting After ‘Occupy’ Group Splatters Blood, Urine
Coffee cart owner Linda Jenson and hot dog cart operators Letty and Pete Soto said they initially provided free food and drink to demonstrators, but when they stopped, the protesters became violent.

It’s time to stop these idiot children and get to doing the real work that’s needed.

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Project Mayhem's avatar

By Project Mayhem, November 9, 2011 at 11:41 am Link to this comment

In the interest of full disclosure, and to defuse the sensationalism of ITroll’s latest hysterical linking, here is the flyer in question, in its entirety:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/alleged-flyer-at-occupy-phoenix-ponders-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/

It is provocative and strongly worded, without doubt, but it raises many important questions about the relationship between law enforcement and the imposition of tyranny. It seems to me that people on both sides of the police cordon would benefit from a close reading and careful consideration of its argumentation. It must be noted that the flyer is by no means a blanket indictment of the police, nor is it an uncritical call to arms against them. It is also important, I think, to consider this document in the context of the place in which it was distributed; Arizona has a reputation for unsavory and unconstitutional abuses of police power, as personified in the form of uberthug, Sherriff Joe Arpaio.

It is not my intent to make excuses for Occupy Phoenix, but rather to call attention to the actual document in question and to the relationship that presently exists between law enforcement and the people of Arizona. As usual, there is little to be gleaned from the biased, sensational, and reductionist presentation of the retrograde hack who made initial reference to it.

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, November 9, 2011 at 10:53 am Link to this comment

Flier at Occupy Phoenix asks, “When should you shoot a cop?”
Copies of an “informational” letter were left on a table for protestors pick up [sic] and read during the “Occupy Phoenix” event at Cesar Chavez Park.  The presence of the letter was reported to the ACTIC by a Maricopa County Sheriff’s Deputy who had responded to an unrelated call and was alerted to it by another deputy working the event.

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Project Mayhem's avatar

By Project Mayhem, November 9, 2011 at 9:41 am Link to this comment

Your response is as expected, ITroll. Mind your own advice.

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, November 9, 2011 at 9:32 am Link to this comment

P.Hem,

Ardee-full-of-hate had the good sense not to prattle on.

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Project Mayhem's avatar

By Project Mayhem, November 9, 2011 at 8:36 am Link to this comment

ITroll chirped: “Feeling rather foolish now, are we? Frustrated and speechless?”

Don’t project the shame of own inadequacies onto me. I’ve thoughtfully and articulately critiqued several of your links now. It is you who have offered nothing in return.

ITroll then chirped: “You may have to watch the video two or three more times to fully grasp what Sage is telling us. Try to pay attention.”

Why don’t you offer us your analysis, then, genius? Dare I say it’s because you’re incapable of doing so? Your plodding semi-coherence and inability to reflect critically on what you see and hear are significant liabilities, I know. But I’m sure OM would pat you on the head for trying, so why don’t you give it a go?

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, November 9, 2011 at 8:16 am Link to this comment

Project Mayhem,

You may have to watch the video two or three more times to fully grasp what Sage is telling us. Try to pay attention.

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, November 9, 2011 at 8:05 am Link to this comment

Project Mayhem,

Feeling rather foolish now, are we? Frustrated and speechless? Too many well documented URLs to defend against? Are those two mean people squashing your adolescent antics?

As with ardee-full-of-hate you too have been thoroughly spanked and you’re left without a defense of your ill-conceived positions.

Occupy is not here for your amusement or agenda. Ardee-full-of-hate tried the same on another thread until I turned his own words against him.  He too took his toys and slithered-off, promising never to play again.

Congratulations, Michael. You stood as an adult and proved that people from opposite sides of the isle can come together in an effective way.

Now let’s repeal some of those Bush tax cuts.

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, November 9, 2011 at 7:46 am Link to this comment

Imax sincerity of your comments are not in question they are tainted, dripping with false patronizing, not a very good provocateur I would suggest, maybe a trip back to Koch Brothers Tea Bag 101 class would help!

Again nothing but crocodile tears and phoney concern as phoney support while undermining and never talking of the OWS message as I see it.

Must admit, GRYM never seemed a very bright beacon of light either!

Yes, Obfuscating is always used to keep the discussion off track.

Occupy Wall Street has THE support of A majority of Americans, it seems some people do not like the fact Occupy dost not dwell on their pet grievances, far as I am concerned that is fine. The system is broke, it stinks to high hell, and it is rigged by the few, for the few and is the few!

Inequalities and disenfranchisement was called out and addressed in Ohio last evening by a nice margin, even though money pored in from special interests,  maybe we have a cure for the rash, known as the 1 percent oligarchy, it is called human beings!

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Project Mayhem's avatar

By Project Mayhem, November 9, 2011 at 7:21 am Link to this comment

The funny thing, ITroll, about your latest hysterical link is that its subject, Sage, never once mentions being “physically assaulted” by fellow protesters. What he does do is to outline a hypothetical situation in which he imagines how he might be provoked into a violent confrontation by a sanitation worker in the park. He also talks about how, from his perspective, it doesn’t seem worth it to march with the Occupy vanguard because he has no wish to be “martyred”. Martyred by the police. Kind of like Scott Olsen was in Oakland.

Really, ITroll, you gotta start watching your own vids, instead of simply salivating at the title, rubbing your greasy little hands together, and clicking ‘paste’. Your latest troll is quite pathetic, even when judged against your own demonstrably low standards.

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Project Mayhem's avatar

By Project Mayhem, November 9, 2011 at 7:05 am Link to this comment

Obfuscating Mouthpiece,
Here’s what happens when one clicks on your link:

Page Unavailable
The document you requested either no longer exists or is not currently available.

Seems your documentation is as dodgey as you are. What a surprise.

As for ITroll, how amusing that you have the stones to accuse others of “dancing” when that is all that you have done, and are capable of doing - and completely without grace or rhythm, may I add. I’ve already debunked and discredited your “contributions”, and you’ve offered absolutely nothing in the way of a defense, aside from hysterically linking more supposed instances of “violent thuggery” that are proof of absolutely nothing. You’ve already warranted too much of my time, and, as you’re unable to offer anything substantive by way of a rebuttal, I’m through with you. Enjoy your continued trolling, by all means.

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, November 9, 2011 at 6:25 am Link to this comment

Michael,

I had already linked to the article. Did you not see? - smile

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OzarkMichael's avatar

By OzarkMichael, November 9, 2011 at 6:15 am Link to this comment

Ah, now we have “systematic interviews” - whatever that means - telling us, or so OM would have us believe, that 31% of OWSers are violent thugs.

I assume that everyone here works at keeping informed, reads news a variety of sources, and has a modicum of knowledge. My bad.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204479504576637082965745362

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, November 9, 2011 at 4:35 am Link to this comment

Project Mayhem,

Interesting dance.

Did I miss where you apologized to Michael for suggesting he inventing that systemic study wherein 31% of OWS participants voiced their support for using violent means to get their point across?

Nothing to see over there folks. Watch me! Watch me dance! Hey, look at me! I’LL DANCE FOR YOU!

Occupy Wall Street Protester Complaining of Physical Assaults from Fellow Protesters.

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Project Mayhem's avatar

By Project Mayhem, November 9, 2011 at 4:00 am Link to this comment

Oh, I see. Well, if the so-called survey appears in a Wall Street Journal op-ed, in which its “findings” are used by a well-heeled establishment hack (Bill Clinton’s pollster?) to further degrade and marginalize those who have already been degraded and marginalized, then I guess I should just take it all on good faith. After all, the Clinton White House proved a great friend to the working people of this country, didn’t it? And, of course, the WSJ is certainly a publication with nothing to gain from seeing the Occupy movement swept neatly under the rug, right? I’ll note once again that the op-ed you cite offers no explanation of the survey or of how it was analyzed. Apparently, we’re just to trust that Schoen isn’t just making up numbers to fit his political needs; his agenda is obvious (elect Demos at any cost) and his language reflects this. I found the following particularly nauseating:

“What binds a large majority of the protesters together—regardless of age, socioeconomic status or education—is a deep commitment to left-wing policies: opposition to free-market capitalism and support for radical redistribution of wealth, intense regulation of the private sector, and protectionist policies to keep American jobs from going overseas.”

Schoen just throws the usual conservative canards around - “radical redistribution of wealth” and “intense regulation of the private sector” - letting this loaded language inspire fear, loathing, and contempt in his readership. This is nonsense, in the sense that protesters are simply demanding reinstatement and enforcement of previous, lawful financial sector regs, and a return to the progressive tax rates on income that were in place in this country up until the 1980s. This, apparently, is what constitutes a “deep commitment to left-wing policies”. Such ginned-up misrepresentations are a staple of the financial sector’s primary mouthpiece, but its readership, who seem generally incapable of either empathy or critical thought, doubtlessly devour such pap with glee. Honestly, the piece you cite (along with its dubiously reported numbers) reads like something out of a College Republican newsletter. That you and the likes of OM continue to hold such amateurish hackery up as if it actually means anything is more than a bit suspect.

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, November 8, 2011 at 9:24 pm Link to this comment

Project Mayhem,

What Michael is showing you was reported several weeks ago. - FYI: Douglas Schoen is a democratic operative and pollster.


Douglas Schoen warns White House: Don’t back ‘Occupy Wall Street’
“Schoen presents what he touts is probably “the first systematic random sample of Occupy Wall Street opinion,” including data that he says demonstrates the fact that the protesters represent “an unrepresentative segment of the electorate that believes in radical redistribution of wealth, civil disobedience and, in some instances, violence”

“Yet the Occupy Wall Street movement reflects values that are dangerously out of touch with the broad mass of the American people—and particularly with swing voters who are largely independent and have been trending away from the president since the debate over health-care reform.

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Project Mayhem's avatar

By Project Mayhem, November 8, 2011 at 8:58 pm Link to this comment

Ah, now we have “systematic interviews” - whatever that means - telling us, or so OM would have us believe, that 31% of OWSers are violent thugs. While we’re inventing statistics, maybe I’ll add a few of my own into the mix:

Of one thousand self-identified members of the Tea Party systematically interviewed, only 21% thought that evolution “might maybe have somethin’ to it”, while 96% felt that global warming was a hoax foisted upon them by various and sundry East Coast Elite Socialists & Socialist European Elites. Moreover, 31% said that they would rather die than live in a socialist country in which Death Panels would decide whether or not the sick could receive medical treatment.

Now, I know I made these numbers up, and I know I didn’t even bother to provide a context for the interview that was supposedly conducted, but I’m going to stick to them anyway because, well, it sure does sound exactly like what I’d expect a bunch of Tea Party folks to think and say. So, yeah, that makes it as good as real in my book. Now, I’ll just take my numbers on the road and educate my fellow bloggers about those nutty TPers and their potentially violent Death Panel trigger.

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OzarkMichael's avatar

By OzarkMichael, November 8, 2011 at 7:22 pm Link to this comment

A systematic interview of 200 Occupiers in New York reveals: Half (52%) have participated in a political movement before, virtually all (98%) say they would support civil disobedience to achieve their goals, and nearly one-third (31%) would support violence to advance their agenda.

Wow! 31% of Occupy Wall Street is agent provocateurs!

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, November 8, 2011 at 4:47 pm Link to this comment

‘So OWS has forced the conversation to disenfranchisement, inequality, unfairness’

I couldn’t agree more. I’ve been saying the same here for weeks. Let’s not annihilate the issue completely, shall we?.

Occupy has proven unable to contain the violence these crowds seed. Stop these Occupations and let us get to work. Before the issue morphs into trolls, rico’s, grym’s, it’s only a few, nothing here to see, we can’t believe our eyes, etc., etc..

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, November 8, 2011 at 4:38 pm Link to this comment

‘My lying eyes. They do deceive’.

Troll, rico, GRYM, paid plant, imbecile, only a small insignificant few, fraud, you’re looking in the wrong direction, how dare we point out all issues, and on, and on and on. Anything but what it is.

I may be the only one here who actually cares about the Occupy message and real, lasting, action. It’s time for a plan and direction.

I miss what this site once was.

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, November 8, 2011 at 3:08 pm Link to this comment

Scott Olsen took it in the head for the rest of us, even for GRYM, I mean Troll… or Imax? The facts are irreverent to you Imax as they were for his self warped GRYM! Deceptions seem to be a right wing specialty, experts in deviations, never to address the real issues or discuss the topic at hand, no we must deviate from reality to the cover of smoke and mirrors. 

So OWS has forced the conversation to disenfranchisement, inequality, unfairness and Imax is focused like a laser on anything but the issues!

So GRYM and Imax, the two of you in the same room would appear as looking in a mirror salivating over the absurd! Enough already Imax,... write something relevant, there is way to much of this constant hubris going on, ... one only need point at OM!

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Project Mayhem's avatar

By Project Mayhem, November 8, 2011 at 2:51 pm Link to this comment

Agreed, ardee. Still, there is some value in debunking these onerus little tools, if for no other reason than to supply context to their shrill, wild-eyed, jowl-flapping attempts to discredit something they appear to have neither the inclination, nor the critical faculty, to understand.

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By ardee, November 8, 2011 at 2:15 pm Link to this comment

Project Mayhem, November 8 at 9:30 am

Way to toast a troll! That his efforts are so blatantly clumsy, so patently false should be obvious to all. For this reason I think him not a paid troll at all, merely a little boy seeking attention, even of the negative variety.

When I came to my senses and simply stopped reading his shite (duh!) I suddenly realized how pathetic and childish were his lies thus drawing the obvious conclusion expressed above. I would almost guarantee that, like his first foray here as GRYM, if we stop responding he will go away.

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Project Mayhem's avatar

By Project Mayhem, November 8, 2011 at 1:27 pm Link to this comment

Itroll stikes again! One random protestor speaks his mind about what he believes it will take to affect transformational change and suddenly - SUDDENLY! - the entire Occupy movement is a slavering pack of red flag-waving, Maoist revolutionaries! Thanks for the heads-up, Itroll. No, really.

Idiot fear-mongerer.

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, November 8, 2011 at 9:38 am Link to this comment

Maybe the 1 percent could come up with a war against violence, only selected violence or sanctioned violence, after all there is a clear difference who is who as whom the sponsors of sanctioned violence are!

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Project Mayhem's avatar

By Project Mayhem, November 8, 2011 at 9:30 am Link to this comment

ITroll,
Come on, man. You can do better than that, can’t you? Did you even watch your own video? Here’s a recap: A handful of thugs (and I mean a handful, very, very few) get a bit out of control. A couple of anarchy symbols are spray painted on walls, along with the word “strike” on a storefront window. A couple of windows are broken and some chairs are tossed around. Throughout these incidents, the majority of the protesters shout “Nonviolence!” and “Stop that!”, eventually physically intervening to stop the thugs (plants?). Just watch from 5:55 on and you’ll actually see them organize a protective phalanx around the storefront being vandalized. One of them shouts at the thugs (plants?), “Violence and vandalism isn’t going to get you anywhere! Who are you?! Show your fucking face! If you want to stand up for something, show them that you’re a person! Show them your face!” In the following segment, the protesters start up a chant of “peaceful protest!” when thugs (plants?) begin busting up some bank windows. Interesting here is that the camera, at 6:51, rolls past a helmeted riot cop who does absolutely nothing to prevent the vandalism, suggesting that the thugs (plants?) may well have the sanction of authority.

These mild acts of vandalism, acts that are shouted down and physically stopped by the protesters themselves, are what, in the eyes of Itroll, apparently constitute “dangerous violent activity”. This would be laughable if it wasn’t so pathetic; in his own sad little way, Itroll apes the selective coverage and willful distortions of the Occupy movement reported in the MSM. Here’s how the 99% really feel about vandals and thugs (plants?) in their midst:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3HvGV3D1VU&NR=1

Frauds like Itroll, as always, are representative of the retrograde, fearful, narrow-minded ideologies that played such a role in leading the world down the garden path of global neoliberalism. Good for you, Itroll. Keep fighting the good fight.

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By IMax, November 8, 2011 at 7:42 am Link to this comment

General Strike - Anti-Capitalism March - Oakland (11-2-2011)

More of the violence that’s not happening.

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By Project Mayhem, November 8, 2011 at 4:14 am Link to this comment

A troll said: “This is one example of those times when I’m pleased to be attacked so ferociously.”

Yes, of course you are, troll. Being ferociously attacked is, after all, the mark of a successful troll. So, I suppose congratulations are in order, troll.

Outraged,
I, too, appreciated your link on Pseudologia Fantastica. It more or less explains the conservative worldview in its entirety. Bravo.

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By Padraig Houlahan, November 7, 2011 at 8:41 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

By ardee, November 7 at 6:18 am Link to this comment

It bothers me that you do not understand why support from every sector of our population is important and necessary.

Even if consistency is tossed to the side, apparently.


Oh dear, I trust you are not descending into the slime like ‘they who will not be mentioned’.
Perhaps you might offer any proof of such “snickering” at the serious injuries of Scott Olsen. In fact he has been presented as a hero here and on every progressive forum I have seen.

Ah. And so might makes right. I got it. And BTW, it seems to me that when so many progressive websites makes a big deal of the military vet facet - by your own admission - they are singling out this as being a material fact and one they embrace.

...and I , in turn, want support from every sector of our populace, I want a free exchange of ideas and a matching of ideals as well. The obvious exception being the scum who come here to lie and distort.

And the house of cards that was your argument, collapses, since there are exceptions to your mantra we need ‘support from every sector of our population’ that you are happy to make for yourself even as you criticize others for their selectivity.

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By IMax, November 7, 2011 at 7:50 pm Link to this comment

This is one example of those times when I’m pleased to be attacked so ferociously.

I still miss what this site once was.

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By Leefeller, November 7, 2011 at 5:58 pm Link to this comment

Imax, GRYM or who ever you may be, your speculations and
distorted view of things seems very much like swamp boys.

A word from feet on the ground from YoungGringos which Imax so conveniently ignores; “The distortion of what happened that night continues by those who were safe in their beds on the 25th.
To them I say, in the eternal words of George Jones,
““Sweetheart, tell me my lying eyes are wrong.””

Something about calling the OWS protesters kids or children is very GRYM like, you would have salivated from his distorted view of everything, which seems very much like your own, maybe it is just the same thoughtless presentations and double speak which I find so annoying!

As I stated before I see lots of Crocodile tears.

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By ardee, November 7, 2011 at 3:59 pm Link to this comment

Outraged, November 7 at 2:14 pm

A brilliant citing.

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By Leefeller, November 7, 2011 at 3:33 pm Link to this comment

Outraged, you clearly outlined the Republican residential ticket and our house Conservative, swamp boy and apparently the new GRYM in drag!

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By Outraged, November 7, 2011 at 2:14 pm Link to this comment

“Some of the more extreme forms of pathological
lying is Pseudologia Fantastica. This is a matrix of
facts & fiction, mixed together in a way that makes
the reality and fantasy almost indistinguishable. 
The pseudologue type pathological liar makes up
stories that seem possible on the surface, but over
time things start falling apart. Pseudologues have
dynamic approach to their lies, they are likely to
change the story if confronted or faced with
disbelief, they have excessive anxiety of being
caught and they desperately try to modify their story
to something that would seem plausible to create or
preserve a sense of self that is something they wish
they were or at least something better than they fear
others would find out they are.  The excessive
anxiety is driven by unusually low self-esteem, the
person tries to hide reality by creating a fake
reality, and once the story has enduring quality to
it, he/she is likely to repeat it and if repeated
enough times he/she might start believing in it as
well.”

http://pathologicalliar.org/

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By ardee, November 7, 2011 at 11:15 am Link to this comment

thethirdman, November 7 at 6:53 am

Ah, do I detect the same opinion I have of the identity of that slimer? An edgier and less relevant copy methinks. Despite my low opinion of Rico the misplaced comma, I never took the step with Rico that I have taken with the two who talk increasingly to themselves.

Turboscrolling is the very best way to end their time here. They almost purposely post such junk as to be expecting rude replies. And our rather limited multicolored whatever continues his futile fiction about being a “liberal”. Is that a horse I hear convulsed with laughter?

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By janmarbol, November 7, 2011 at 8:32 am Link to this comment

https://www.facebook.com/USMarineScottOlsen

Please “like” Scott Olsen’s SUPPORT page and spread the word to friends and family. Thank you!

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By IMax, November 7, 2011 at 8:00 am Link to this comment

thethirdman, - “IMax, You forgot to mention our good friend Rico Suave. I wonder what ever happened to that guy.”

-

I have no idea who that is.

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By thethirdman, November 7, 2011 at 6:53 am Link to this comment

IMax,

You forgot to mention our good friend Rico Suave.  I wonder what ever happened
to that guy. Haha

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By ardee, November 7, 2011 at 6:18 am Link to this comment

Padraig Houlahan, November 6 at 4:31 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It bothers me that military service is still perceived as being relevant here. Truthdig has been anti-war and yet it makes an issue of Scott Olsen’s military background? Why is not enough that a protestor was hurt by a tear gas cannister? Why do we now need to bless the event with his military background.

It bothers me that you do not understand why support from every sector of our population is important and necessary.

Are we supposed to snicker that a military vet got hurt and can now be deemed to be ‘one of us’? Maybe it’s a cynical attempt to spin the story so we can now say even military vets are demonstrating?

Oh dear, I trust you are not descending into the slime like ‘they who will not be mentioned’.
Perhaps you might offer any proof of such “snickering” at the serious injuries of Scott Olsen. In fact he has been presented as a hero here and on every progressive forum I have seen.

I want neither the opposition nor the support of the military in these circumstances. I’m not blinded by the flag and I don’t think the endorsement of those who forego their own moral responsibility through submittting themselves to the control of others have anything the Occupy Wall Street movement needs.

...and I , in turn, want support from every sector of our populace, I want a free exchange of ideas and a matching of ideals as well. The obvious exception being the scum who come here to lie and distort.

You may think to do this on your own, but I think that impossible. Your “political purity” may be due to your age or inexperience, I have no way of knowing. But I trust that you will continue to be politicized, and, in time, will see a more realistic path.

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By IMax, November 7, 2011 at 5:37 am Link to this comment

OzarkMichael,

Why I do it.

I’ve been reading from TD since it’s beginning (there were 14 member commenters). At that time I was lending my own thoughts and suggestions until my work ultimately took me away from reliable internet access (I could read from the site but my comments would get lost in the spotty connection).

Since then those regulars are gone and the flavor of the site has changed dramatically. Slowly the regulars have turned more militant and ideologically rigid. You may not believe it but there was a time when one would find moderates, liberals, and conservatives speaking freely, openly, and largely with respect on these threads. Diversity was welcomed.

Individuals such as ardee (a loathsome sort), so easily led to terrific anger by a simple difference of opinion, were once the exception. I fear today he or she make up the rule.

Individuals such as Outraged, who I’m sure believes what he writes, has this learned habit of talking around and past people. He’s not a true listener. - I’m saddened to see so many here putting more importance on being heard. Less on “sharing” points of view. Unfortunately this does not make for a true conversation.

Then there are those such Anarcissie, gerard and YoungGringos who seem to do everything possible to avoid answering a direct question. I am left with the deeply embedded impression that these people, along with several others here, don’t actually believe in the things they write.

Truth be told, I’m not sure how long or how much I’ll participate. It seems to me those who truly desire a diverse and lively conversation, a meeting of the minds, have been driven off by so much rancor and the rigid views and voices we see here today.

-

My apologies to you Michael. Please know there are a great many more “liberal” voices interested in true exchanges of views than you’ve found here.

Last thought: I was completely taken aback by something Outraged wrote. He touched on a reality that seems to have escaped him. It escaped me too until it was pointed out so vividly. The ‘Occupy’ protests have turned out to be demonstrably more violent and destructive than even today’s contemporary Klu Klux Klan.

As it turns out Outraged answered the question he posed to me on why the Occupy protests have turned out to be so thoroughly embarrassing.

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By YoungGringos, November 7, 2011 at 12:32 am Link to this comment

I was in downtown Oakland on Oct. 25th.
I was with the protest when it left the downtown
Oakland library at 5.
I was with them as we marched to the prison
where flash bangs were first thrown at us.
Together we yelled for the occupiers to be released.
I was with the protest on the march down to Frank Agawa Plaza.
I was with the protest from the first round of tear
gas to the last. 
By the by, if you plan on being tear gassed don’t wear contacts.  It’s more painful than you can possibly imagine.
I held an old man’s head back as others poured Maalox in his eyes to stop the burning.
He was shellshocked- hands trembling uncontrollably.
I saw Scott Olsen before and after his injury. 
I saw him on the ground 10 feet away from me- blood
pouring down his face.

The distortion of what happened that night continues by those who were safe in their beds on the 25th. 
To them I say, in the eternal words of George Jones,
“Sweetheart, tell me my lying eyes are wrong.”

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By Outraged, November 7, 2011 at 12:29 am Link to this comment

Re: glider

Your comment: ” But frankly I think they doth
protest too much and simply give strength to the
movement.”

Yes…..yes, this DOES seem to be the case.

However, we must ASSUME that their concerns are legitimate and
respond accordingly. And yes they do have that
propensity to “hijacked the proper subject of this
thread.”
But even in this, much is to be learned.
Try to be considerate of their very VALID concerns
and respond in a way that they understand the true
nature of what has transpired in MODERN history. I
surmise that they do much good if allowed to
speak.

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By glider, November 6, 2011 at 11:44 pm Link to this comment

Well, Ozark “let them eat cake” Michael, and I “let them eat cake” Max have successfully hijacked the proper subject of this thread.  I easily envision these two wearing “tree of liberty ... refreshed ... with .. blood of patriots and tyrants” tees at their rascist enabled Corporatist sponsored anti-government regulation staged events.  But frankly I think they doth protest too much and simply give strength to the movement.  And I love that this bit is just the shits for you two(?).

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By Outraged, November 6, 2011 at 11:18 pm Link to this comment

Re: OzarkMichael

Your comment: ” Except IMax. Apologies, dude.You are
the only Leftist on Truthdig who is trying to be fair.
I want to know why you are doing that.”

Pathetic.

Remember, “Obama is watching….....” I bet they got IMax’s “number”

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By Outraged, November 6, 2011 at 10:58 pm Link to this comment

Re: OzarkMichael

Your comment: “In that case we can say that Occupy
Wall Street is ABSOLUTELY linked to hate groups, such
as Nazis(like David Duke) and violent Communists.
Again you IGNORE that and act as if you can just
gloss over it.”

No it is not the same thing AT ALL, not in any regard
as I’ve shown.

“you IGNORE the tea party’s direct affiliations
with violent groups, their violent rhetoric and
signage. These in fact were leaders of specific
groups whereas the OWS doesn’t have leaders.

“To cite some examples, the IREHR report revealed
that Karen Pack, a leader of the Wood County Texas
tea party in Texas, has been linked to the KKK.
According to the report, Pack, who is a self-
described “Christian, tea party member, a
Constitutionalist and a Patriot,” has been listed as
an official supporter by the Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan and a subscriber to a periodical published by a
so-called “white patriot” organization.

Another leader of the tea party movement is Roan
Garcia-Quintana of Mauldin, South Carolina, who was
identified as “advisor and media spokesperson” for
the 2010 Tax Day tea party rally in Greenville, South
Carolina. As the IREHR report notes, Garcia-Quintana
serves also as a member of the Council of
Conservative Citizens, the “direct descendant of the
white Citizens Councils that fought to defend Jim
Crow segregation during the 1950s and 1960s.”
http://peoplesworld.org/tea-party-activism-tied-to-
extremists-turning-violent/

And in other areas:
“The belief that the Obama administration is
“unlawful authority” has been promoted through
Religious Right and Tea Party groups.  Retired
General Jerry Boykin stated in a recent sermon that
he is frequently asked when it will be time to take
up arms against the government. In a video titled
Marxism in America, Boykin claimed that the
healthcare bill allowed the Obama administration to
create a constabulary force similar to Nazi “brown
shirts.”  The short video was widely distributed by
both the Religious Right organization which produced
it and through Tea Party websites prior to the
election.

The urgency and militant language can be better
understood in the context of the narratives found in
textbooks like America’s Providential History.”
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2011/2/20/181252/049

You ignore one side and promote the other, one group
in Oakland (and we don’t really yet KNOW who their
affiliationed with) is not in the least indicative of
the whole, as you yourself have said. OWS is not
promoting, advocating nor endorsing violence and that
is a FACT.

On the other hand, there were those DIRECTLY
AFFILIATED WITH THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT, leaders in
fact
who DID AND CONTINUE TO ADVOCATE VIOLENCE.

OWS doesn’t have any leaders with these affiliations. Additionally the tea party groups and its funders KNEW this was the case. They then proceeded to hire Sarah Palin who has absolutely endorsed these same mantras. Glen Beck was one of the tea parties biggest promoters… Rush Limbaugh…etc.

I don’t claim that every protester would have agreed or even attended had THEY known at the time but they were lied to. OWS as a group has not advocated anything of the kind. In fact quite the opposite.

Additionally, just like these groups hijacked the tea party it is my belief that they would “involve” themselves with OWS.

As far as OWS goes, first came the “reports” of anarchists at OWS, then suddenly “anarchists” are filling the blog posts, then what do you know “anarchists” are causing riots in Oakland. Seems a bit orchestrated to me, just as it was with many of the tea party rallies.

As it stands we will have to wait to find out WHO the instigators were in Oakland.

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By YoungGringos, November 6, 2011 at 10:56 pm Link to this comment

IMAX-

“I remain thoroughly embarrassed to
have lent my support to this.”

How did you support OWS?

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By OzarkMichael, November 6, 2011 at 10:05 pm Link to this comment

The tea party is ABSOLUTELY linked to hate groups and christian nation types.  Again you IGNORE that and act as if you can just gloss over it

In that case we can say that Occupy Wall Street is ABSOLUTELY linked to hate groups, such as Nazis(like David Duke) and violent Communists. Again you IGNORE that and act as if you can just gloss over it.

If you think that support from a hate group forms a ‘link’ to the Tea Party, then we must use the same criteria for Occupy Wall Street. Otherwise you perpetuate a double standard, Outraged, which is exactly what Leftists love to do.

Hmm. Except IMax. Apologies, dude.You are the only Leftist on Truthdig who is trying to be fair. I want to know why you are doing that.

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By Outraged, November 6, 2011 at 8:48 pm Link to this comment

Re: IMax

Your comment: “one day, find that demonizing
people who don’t see things quite like you do is not
only counterproductive, it’s often dangerous.”

I’ve demonized no one. I’ve shown the FACTS, and
this, it seems, is what you do not like. Again you
accuse without validity yet excuse your own actions,
which of course was your attempt to demonize OWS.

As for your premise “it’s often dangerous”. Is that a
threat or a promise IMax?  It sounds like one of the
two to me.

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By IMax, November 6, 2011 at 8:01 pm Link to this comment

Outraged,

You’re a very gunge-ho type individual. Passionate. Dedicated to your view of the world.

I hope you’ll try to avoid the political media theater and, one day, find that demonizing people who don’t see things quite like you do is not only counterproductive, it’s often dangerous.

All my best.

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By Outraged, November 6, 2011 at 6:57 pm Link to this comment

Re: IMax

Your comment: “The Tea Movement got their point
across and went home and got busy. Very busy. They
then turned out to vote. These people affected an
entire election cycle and it continues today. In
every State House in each of the 50 States. All
without throwing chunks of cement at anyone and
without breaking things.”

This is not the case. While they didn’t throw chunks
of cement, they did get thrown chunks of money. And
they did break things, what they broke is called THE
LAW.

“Election law experts say the transactions raise a
host of questions for the private organization, which
billed itself as a tax-exempt nonprofit, and the Cain
team.

“If the records accurately reflect what occurred,
this is way out of bounds,” said a Washington, D.C.-
based election lawyer who advises many Republican
candidates and conservative groups on campaign
issues. The lawyer asked not to be identified because
of those affiliations.

Michael Maistelman, a Wisconsin campaign attorney,
agreed.

“The number of questionable and possibly illegal
transactions conducted on behalf of Herman Cain is
staggering,” said Maistelman, a Democrat who has
represented politicians from both parties on campaign
issues.”

http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/noquarter/state-firms-cash-to-herman-cain-may-breach-federal-campaign-tax-laws-132898423.html

And the money:
“Madison - A Republican campaign contributor
officially filed a recall effort Friday against Gov.
Scott Walker, triggering a powerful tool for the GOP
leader: unlimited campaign fundraising.

The effect of the filing is to give Walker an extra
week and half to raise campaign contributions with no
limits that can be used to help defend against a more
serious recall attempt against the governor scheduled
to begin on Nov. 15. Friday’s petition was filed by
David Brandt of Muskego in Waukesha County. Brandt is
a modest contributor to Walker and the state
Republican Party.

In the filing with the state Government
Accountability Board, Brandt wrote cryptically that
he was registering a recall committee - Close Friends
to Recall Walker - to “fulfill my friend’s last
request.”

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/first-recall-effort-against-gov-scott-walker-formally-launched-friday-e22u587-133257928.html

Also keep in mind that we do not yet KNOW who the
instigators were in Oakland.

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By Outraged, November 6, 2011 at 6:30 pm Link to this comment

Re: IMax

Your comment: “Turning cop killers into heroes
seems as ugly and violent as it gets. Occupy speakers
calling for ‘French Revolution’ style violence is
beyond the pale.”

No one is doing that. YOU are claiming that but in
FACT no one has done anything of the sort.  You are a tea party
sympathizer even though you’ve admitted that 99% of
OWS were peaceful, and they were.

The tea party is ABSOLUTELY linked to hate groups and
christian nation types.  Again you IGNORE that and
act as if you can just gloss over it.

I can agree that one doesn’t always agree with every
sign someone carries at a rally but you ignore the
one and highlight the other.

Tea party sign:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cjbrenchley/4448018629/

There’s a TREMENDOUS difference between a protester
(whether one agrees with their message or not) making
stupid decisions, but it’s quite another thing when
it is broadcast daily(backed by big money) on talk radio and TV pundits like Glen Beck, Sarah Palin, Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh….....etc.

For example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcNwACyoRto&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_5CtFxxXfE

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By IMax, November 6, 2011 at 5:22 pm Link to this comment

Outraged,

Let us just say we see things differently. I may be more the pragmatist.

I see two polar opposite protests (Tea/OWS) sharing many of the same concerns and protesting many of the same issues. High charged signage and rhetoric is seen at every protest of more than a thousand people. I’ve seen it myself for 50 years. While I too was offended by much of the signage and language from many Tea supporters your point on ‘Tea’ rhetoric falls completely flat with me. Turning cop killers into heroes seems as ugly and violent as it gets. Occupy speakers calling for ‘French Revolution’ style violence is beyond the pale.

I can’t support the Tea Movement’s underlying philosophy but I will defend this one thing: The Tea protesters on the streets and in those Town Halls were made up of a great many elderly. Most had never protested before. There was never any real danger to anyone. Zero violence. Zero destruction. The need for arrests were far and few. Nonetheless, they were labeled terrorists. It was dumb at the time and it remains dumb today. I’m sorry if that offends you.

We need to take a lesson

The crowds were large. 500,000 in a single day. The Tea Movement didn’t throw explosives or urine at crowd control. They stayed within the boundaries that have been used by tens of millions, perhaps hundreds of millions, of protesting Americans before them. Not so with Occupy. - A bunch of petulant idiot children, directly seeded from the Occupy protests, are burying the underlying message.

The Tea Movement got their point across and went home and got busy. Very busy. They then turned out to vote. These people affected an entire election cycle and it continues today. In every State House in each of the 50 States. All without throwing chunks of cement at anyone and without breaking things.

The Tea movement has already proven itself lasting. Occupy, without a center, without a plan of real action both politically and economically, will be forgotten before Christmas. The only question is how many people will be hurt between now and then.

If you have more information on the sleeping campers please share it. I would like to understand the context.

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By Padraig Houlahan, November 6, 2011 at 4:31 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It bothers me that military service is still perceived as being relevant here. Truthdig has been anti-war and yet it makes an issue of Scott Olsen’s military background? Why is not enough that a protestor was hurt by a tear gas cannister? Why do we now need to bless the event with his military background.

Are we supposed to snicker that a military vet got hurt and can now be deemed to be ‘one of us’? Maybe it’s a cynical attempt to spin the story so we can now say even military vets are demonstrating?

I want neither the opposition nor the support of the military in these circumstances. I’m not blinded by the flag and I don’t think the endorsement of those who forego their own moral responsibility through submittting themselves to the control of others have anything the Occupy Wall Street movement needs.

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By Outraged, November 6, 2011 at 3:47 pm Link to this comment

Re: IMax

Your comment: “Did we not paint the entire Tea
Movement as dangerously violent because of a small
number of idiots amongst them? Even when we saw zero
vandalism and zero violence from those crowds?”

That’s not true and you know it. Why were the tea
party protesters NOT met with police in riot gear..? 
That is certainly questionable. Why do you IGNORE the
sleeping campers awakened by police in riot gear
throwing tear gas and shooting bean bags at them?
There wasn’t any violence taking place at that time
AT ALL!

Comment: “This is not what 99% of Americans will
support. These street protests need to end.  It’s
time to show us the plan. Otherwise the last few
months will amount to nothing but a spectacle.”

You claim that 99% were peaceful your words
NOT mine. You then go on to claim that 99% won’t
support them.  You are mistaken, imo.

You also claim “I think I can sum it up like this:
When I see signage at an OWS event that reads “All My
Heroes Kill Cops” I am thoroughly embarrassed to have
lent my support.”

Again you IGNORE the tea party’s direct affiliations
with violent groups, their violent rhetoric and
signage. These in fact were leaders of specific
groups
whereas the OWS doesn’t have leaders.

“To cite some examples, the IREHR report revealed
that Karen Pack, a leader of the Wood County Texas
tea party in Texas, has been linked to the KKK.
According to the report, Pack, who is a self-
described “Christian, tea party member, a
Constitutionalist and a Patriot,” has been listed as
an official supporter by the Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan and a subscriber to a periodical published by a
so-called “white patriot” organization.

Another leader of the tea party movement is Roan
Garcia-Quintana of Mauldin, South Carolina, who was
identified as “advisor and media spokesperson” for
the 2010 Tax Day tea party rally in Greenville, South
Carolina. As the IREHR report notes, Garcia-Quintana
serves also as a member of the Council of
Conservative Citizens, the “direct descendant of the
white Citizens Councils that fought to defend Jim
Crow segregation during the 1950s and 1960s.”

http://peoplesworld.org/tea-party-activism-tied-to-extremists-turning-violent/

And in other areas:
“The belief that the Obama administration is “unlawful authority” has been promoted through Religious Right and Tea Party groups.  Retired General Jerry Boykin stated in a recent sermon that he is frequently asked when it will be time to take up arms against the government. In a video titled Marxism in America, Boykin claimed that the healthcare bill allowed the Obama administration to create a constabulary force similar to Nazi “brown shirts.”  The short video was widely distributed by both the Religious Right organization which produced it and through Tea Party websites prior to the election.

The urgency and militant language can be better understood in the context of the narratives found in textbooks like America’s Providential History.”
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2011/2/20/181252/049

You ignore one side and promote the other, one group in Oakland (and we don’t really yet KNOW who their affiliationed with) is not in the least indicative of the whole, as you yourself have said. OWS is not promoting, advocating nor endorsing violence and that is a FACT.

On the other hand, there were those DIRECTLY AFFILIATED WITH THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT, leaders in fact who DID AND CONTINUE TO ADVOCATE VIOLENCE.

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By IMax, November 6, 2011 at 12:49 pm Link to this comment

Outraged,

Ultimately violence will be necessary, says Occupy L.A. speaker

Ultimately the bourgeoisie will not go without violent means”...We need a revolution like the French Revolution, not like Gandhi in India.

-

I have seen similar language at numerous ‘Occupy’ events. This is not an isolated example.  At another event I saw a ANTI-COP ROCK TOSS instructional board game. The nature of ‘Occupy’, the reason I lent my support to begin with, has changed dramatically.

There are many here attempting to argue that nothing like the above is happening. Well, the truth is it is happening. And it’s happening all over the country.

This is not what 99% of Americans will support. These street protests need to end.  It’s time to show us the plan. Otherwise the last few months will amount to nothing but a spectacle.

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By IMax, November 6, 2011 at 12:23 pm Link to this comment

Outraged,

There are so many reasons for my embarrassment I’m not sure where to begin.

I think I can sum it up like this: When I see signage at an OWS event that reads “All My Heroes Kill Cops” I am thoroughly embarrassed to have lent my support.

I am horrified to see so many here, not only ignoring the violence from OWS crowds all over the nation, but go out of their way to defend and support the use of destruction and violence.

As the violence grows so too does the love of these moronic children.

-

Did we not paint the entire Tea Movement as dangerously violent because of a small number of idiots amongst them? Even when we saw zero vandalism and zero violence from those crowds?

Yes, I am embarrassed.

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By Outraged, November 6, 2011 at 11:41 am Link to this comment

Re: IMax

Your comments: “I remain thoroughly embarrassed to
have lent my support to this.

And, “According to OWS protesters Sheriff Deputies
had asked then ordered protesters to move the protest
elsewhere. It seems 99% did move. Peaceably. Non-
violently.”

If you think that 99% did move peacefully, why would
you be embarrassed to have lent your support? 
Personally, I’m angry that this small number of
instigators(whichever side their from) created that
particular situation. This is not and has not ever
been the position of OWS.

Additionally, there were many instances in NYC of
unprovoked police brutality but there was also police
brutality in Oakland when they decided to surround
the sleeping occupiers, in riot gear throwing teargas
and shooting them with bean bags.

We constantly see cases of unprovoked police
brutality throughout the US.  When these occur, at
best the officer is dismissed from their job.  That
is wrong. They should be charged with the crime they
committed and fired.

When these occur we are constantly told
that “it’s being investigated” and invariably later
we are also told “that the officer/s acted properly”.
Everyone, regardless of their politics is outraged
over this, yet it goes on. So it’s not without cause that most question the tactics employed here, the public has every reason to do so.

It happened recently in my area when a police liaison officer tased a student.  I took my son out of the schools BECAUSE they have police in the schools. I don’t think it creates a safe environment for my child. I think it creates a volatile one in which learning is stifled. Why are police in our schools? This is a trumped up fear tactic and creates more problems than it solves.

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By IMax, November 6, 2011 at 9:04 am Link to this comment

1:18 Observing the angle it’s quite clear that the flash and explosion, which went off just as Scott fell, originated from this side of the police barricades. Not across the barricade as the narration suggests.

If a deputy threw a flash bang utility into the crowd after Scott fell while others were coming to his aid, which looks to me possible, that is fairly outrageous too.

Once again, as Mike correctly points out, OWS protesters have come forward and stated that the crowd had instigated this horrendous event by assaulting the deputies present. The video narration, the narrative in the media, the narrative used by OWS and most on this site is completely untrue.

I remain thoroughly embarrassed to have lent my support to this.

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By OzarkMichael, November 6, 2011 at 7:39 am Link to this comment

I have watched the video several times. It was not an easy thing to do. It is also difficult to write this today, and its more difficult because i know that most of you dont give a damn about what really happened because you need this story to come out a certain way, and you arent in the least interested in the truth about it.

Olsen was very close to the police line. He was occasionally looking back and across the line of protestors.

People in the crowd as well as police report that heavy objects were being thrown by the Occupiers before and during the police use of “flash-bang”.
So the message at the end of the video that ‘the crowd didnt throw anything until afterwards’ is quite misleading.

If people were throwing heavy objects and one of those objects fell just a little short, Scott Olsen was standing so close to the police that he could have caught the blow.

The sparks from a blast(flash-bang grenade) seen early in the video(when the narrator asks ‘was this the shot that killed scott Olsen?’ can be seen later in the video to be happening about 15 feet from Olsen. He begins to fall to the gound after it goes off.

The angle that Scott falls is away from the center of the protest line, watch the video at the 1:18 mark. It is away from the flash in the crowd, not away from the police in front of him.

One theory we could entertain is that shrapnel from the grenade injured Olsen, except i dont think these grenades have any shrapnel or blast effect.

It seems likely that Scott was hit by a heavy object thrown from the far end of the protest line opposite from where the camara is positioned.

Or it is possible that the grenade struck Olsen first and he fell later. The problem with this idea is that those grenades seem to be shot without much force. The grenade seems to be a device that is aimed directly at cluster of people to get them to move away without hurting them. Also the grenade would have to be fired with considerable force from the far end of the police line to knock Olsen back towards the camara.

It doesnt look like Olsen was hit by a teargas cannister, there isnt one going off at the time. It is more likely he was hit by an object poorly thrown by a protester.

The cause of Olsen’s injury is not as obvious as the media and the Occupiers wanted us to believe. One way or another, i would like to know. Meanwhile, unlike Truthdiggers, i dont like being lied to.

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By IMax, November 6, 2011 at 5:05 am Link to this comment

Outraged, - “What was the “wrong reasons”?

-

Consider this: According to OWS protesters Sheriff Deputies had asked then ordered protesters to move the protest elsewhere. It seems 99% did move. Peaceably. Non-violently.

According to OWS protesters a small few from that original group returned to the same area to confront Sheriff Deputies. This smaller group, according to OWS protesters, began throwing explosives, chunks of cement, rocks, glass bottles, pots and pans, urine and various others items at Deputies.

This was the wrong reason to be there and 99% of Americans will, correctly, reject such tantrums. Unfortunately young Scott Olsen was amongst this violent crowd.

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By Outraged, November 6, 2011 at 1:55 am Link to this comment

Re: IMax

“Scott Olsen was in the wrong place, at the wrong
time, for the wrong reasons.”

What was the “wrong reasons”?

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By grokker, November 5, 2011 at 9:05 pm Link to this comment

I’m reporting on what I saw. The OWS movement needs to look at where they’re at and how they may have been co-opted at this point in time. If they don’t do this, they will fall prey to the same propaganda that other liberation movements historically have been prey to
@screamingpalm “Surely the police fired them first and these were being return-vollied.” As you say the evidence of that is inconclusive. But that is not what I saw based on that bit of video. Tear gas can be obtained easily by practically anyone.

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By grokker, November 5, 2011 at 8:29 pm Link to this comment

What I saw was teargas being thrown from right to left across my field of vision, the protestors on the right, the cops on the left. Does it matter who supplied the teargas? To the cops, it probably didn’t.

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By James Brenner, November 5, 2011 at 8:29 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

In every angle of video, Scott Olsen was simply
standing still exercising his Constitutional right to
peacefully protest.

His family must get a good lawyer, and sue the crap
out of the Oakland Police Department so that they
won’t have new toys for a while.

An investigation is mandatory to identify the corrupt
terrorist COP who shot an unarmed American citizen. 
If the COP is an American citizen, he has the right
to a fair trial.

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By screamingpalm, November 5, 2011 at 6:50 pm Link to this comment

Wait, so you’re saying these protestors showed up with smoking canisters to throw at police? I highly doubt that this was the case. Surely the police fired them first and these were being return-vollied. Inconclusive from the video either way. Some of you seem awfully eager to criticize OWS from the comfort of your living rooms though.

Regardless, the last grenade thrown in the middle of a group coming over to help him is enough to get my blood boiling.

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By IMax, November 5, 2011 at 6:40 pm Link to this comment

grokker is talking about the crowd in Oakland throwing things at deputies (OWS witnesses reported M80s) as Scott Olsen is standing between an anxious and violent crowd and riot-gear clad deputies.

The entire narration of this particular incident and video, now seen around the world, attempts to tell us that what we see happening that night, didn’t actually happen. The Oakland crowd assaulted the police. Scott Olsen is being used.

99% of Americans will not support it.

Scott Olsen was in the wrong place, at the wrong time, for the wrong reasons. I wish him well.

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By YoungGringos, November 5, 2011 at 5:42 pm Link to this comment

madisolation-

I don’t want to fight the cops.
I want to fight the banks.  We must keep our target clearly in our sights. 
Know your enemy.

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By ardee, November 5, 2011 at 3:00 pm Link to this comment

I dont like being lied to for the sake of any cause, not even ones I believe in.

Apparently OM doesn’t mind lying though.

grokker, November 5 at 1:59 pm Link to this comment

Looks to me as if tear gas was being lobbed from the protestors first, prior to Olsen getting hit.

Did you perhaps mean lobbed at the protestors. Or do you imply that they now have tear gas of their own?

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By grokker, November 5, 2011 at 1:59 pm Link to this comment

Looks to me as if tear gas was being lobbed from the protestors first, prior to Olsen getting hit.

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By IMax, November 5, 2011 at 1:37 pm Link to this comment

The video on this page was released roughly 10 days ago. It’s been up on TruthDig for a day.

I’ve been waiting for one honest OWS supporter, other than myself, to point out what is so clearly on display in this video document.

Is there not one other honest person willing to point it out?

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By janmarbol, November 5, 2011 at 10:23 am Link to this comment

linked FB page to Scott’s website ScottOlsen.ORG, thanks and hopefully we’ll get more views!

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By janmarbol, November 5, 2011 at 10:21 am Link to this comment

just updated Scott’s facebook page to link to ScottOlsen.ORG! Thanks

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By janmarbol, November 5, 2011 at 10:04 am Link to this comment

Please go to facebook and “like” Scott’s support page! thanks!
https://www.facebook.com/USMarineScottOlsen
send to family and friends.. this page was created before the others on facebook for Scott and I’ll be sure to send them to Scott’s official page as well!! Thanks for supporting our honorable men and women!

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By grokker, November 5, 2011 at 9:33 am Link to this comment

@mendel   The way I see it, if more people were full of “piss and vinegar”, as you put it, we would not be behind the eight ball and having to fight our way out, whatever the tenor of that fight may be. We would have avoided the complacency that our modern, comfortable way of life has afflicted us with. You refer to violent actions of the last hundred years in america being ineffective, but what about the last several hundred years around the world. Revolution as opposed to protest is the only way that change has occurred. Some think that a revolution in thought is occurring with the OWS movement. It’s still too early to tell. Unless we have a society in which real mental and/or spiritual change can occur within individuals, then we’re just replacing one empire with another. Replacing one group of dysfunctional people with another is just changing deck chairs on the Titanic.I guess the main difference between us is whether violence is ever an option. I think it has to be in some cases. Are you ready to be loaded onto a cattle car and taken to some unknown fate or would you physically resist? I know what I would do, regardless of the immediate outcome. Just because I don’t spew platitudes about how much sympathy I have for someone like Scott Olson, don’t make the mistake of assuming I don’t have any. I do, as well as for all of the people in the countries that america chooses to ravage. But I’m tired of thinking of everyone as being a victim. We may be victimized, but we don’t have to act as victims any longer.

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By mendel, November 5, 2011 at 8:56 am Link to this comment

@grokker, You’re full of piss and vinegar. Don’t think everyone wants a good
fight.
If they were honest about it, a lot of people would enjoy watching two other
people beating the hell out of each other but I wouldn’t call any war, where
people are killing each other, a good fight. Non violence, at least for the
present, is the only way, in this time and place, that the changes we want and
the injustices we hate can be opposed and overcome. If martial law were
imposed in this country, we would not see a good fight.
Your lack of sympathy for young people who join the military voluntarily and go
to war and lose or shatter their lives defending the cause of “freedom” have
been raised to do what they have done is cold hearted and mean spirited. Do
you think that Scott Olsen and his fellow Marines knew what was going on when
they enlisted and fought?  Mr. Olsen figured it out BECAUSE he was there. He
never had the luxury of learning that there IS a “state apparatus.” Burning
buildings and throwing fire bombs at police and firefighters has not, in the last
hundred years in America, been an effective way of changing things for the
better.

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By grokker, November 5, 2011 at 8:07 am Link to this comment

Oh, and by the way, stop voting if all you can muster as a “citizen” is a lame R or D vote.

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By grokker, November 5, 2011 at 8:02 am Link to this comment

Great point from thethirdman. But I don’t pay phony deference to america’s foot soldiers. They volunteered to be there, regardless of the brainwashing involved. You ultimately have a choice, and you also can get yourself out if you have to. I cringe when I hear people say to a soldier “thank you for your service”, when that comment comes from someone who is in the antiwar camp. It is all so much pandering. As far as OWS goes, whether it’s violent or non violent makes no difference. The point is to attract attention to the dysfunction of the state apparatus. I have no qualms about using the tactics of the state against itself. In the end, I think everyone wants a good fight if they were honest with themselves about it, and it will happen. The imposition of martial law will come if people don’t wake up and soon. The state must be ignored: stop buying their garbage, stop ingesting their propaganda, become more self sufficient, and ultimately I think a major tax revolt is in order to cut them off at the knees.

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By madisolation, November 5, 2011 at 7:54 am Link to this comment

thethirdman,
“How is it that when they are in Iraq, most commenters here blast the foot soldiers
of empire, but now that he can be a pawn in this silly OWS cause Scott Olsen was
“serving his country.”  You guys are just as bad as your evil right wing
counterparts.”

I’ve never blasted them for being foot soldiers of empire. I think most soldiers were conned into signing up.
However, where is the contradiction? The individual who is protesting at OWS is obviously of a different mind now. The idealistic individual who signed up thought he was defending his country and it turned out he was working to help the financial elite steal the resources of other countries. Now this individual is truly serving his country on the streets of the U.S.

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By thethirdman, November 5, 2011 at 6:06 am Link to this comment

How is it that when they are in Iraq, most commenters here blast the foot soldiers
of empire, but now that he can be a pawn in this silly OWS cause Scott Olsen was
“serving his country.”  You guys are just as bad as your evil right wing
counterparts.  Shame on you.

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By madisolation, November 5, 2011 at 5:12 am Link to this comment

YoungGringos, I read that about Kayvan Sabehgi. I get the feeling that a storm is brewing. I read this at Counterpunch:

“Having briefly tasted batons and pepper spray, OWSers should know that when capital feels it is being pushed to the wall, it will stop at nothing to crush any serious challenge. The cop puts away his smile. The indulgent mayor imposes a curfew. “Exemplary” sentences are handed down. The prisons fill up. The FBI dusts off the Cointelpro blueprint. Organized repression can only be defeated by organized resistance, nationwide. How to mount this is the OWSers’ long-term challenge. These are very early days in the formation of the movement. In Oakland, on Wednesday, OWS staged a rally calling for a General Strike. That was optimism of the intelligence. That was most certainly thinking along the right lines.”

http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/11/04/the-iron-heel-and-the-resistance/

Thank you for all you’re doing.

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By OzarkMichael, November 5, 2011 at 4:20 am Link to this comment

When he was struck down last month, reportedly by a projectile lobbed by a member of Oakland’s police force, Olsen was taking part in a march to push back against the closure of the main encampment.

I think the story of Olsen’s injury is typical of the so called ‘peacefulness and transparency’ of the Occupy movement. Occupy is designed to create confrontation. If something goes wrong,it is always the authorities, or ‘secret conservative agents’ who are assigned the blame. The MSM does not investigate or report the details, but keeps telling us how ‘peaceful’ the Occupiers are, and by contrast how dangerous the rest of us are.

It is of course critically important to the Occupier mythos that we all believe Olsen was injured by the police.

Like so much Occupy mythology, it is turning out to be very doubtful. Here is a video where a protester admits they were the ones throwing objects. The interviewer was (as usual) trying to be helpful but the protestor had a sudden and unexpected moment of transparency. She was honest about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc_brjWJqZk&feature=player_embedded

So now it seems that when police retaliated there were no heavy objects used. It seems very likely that Owens was injured by junk thrown by some Occupier. I hope he gets better, I really do.

I dont like being lied to for the sake of any cause, not even ones I believe in. The press did that, and they did it for the Occupiers. The MSM is complicit in the process.

The goal is to inflame passions of the Occupiers to greater heights, to give them moral authority to raise their confrontations to a higher level. An Occupy confrontation followed by injury, followed by Occupier Rage, followed by greater and more aggressive confrontation, is beginning to acquire the appearance of a plan or a method.

The truth of what happened is not important to the Occupiers, as long as the mythos develops and the Rage grows, and the movement succeeds. The process reminds one of Trotsky far more than Ghandi.

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By Janet, November 5, 2011 at 12:36 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

where is my comment? the above website is a facebook site in support created before any other facebook page for him was… is there some reason the comment was censored? it’s a page in support of him, not impersonating or anything

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By YoungGringos, November 5, 2011 at 12:10 am Link to this comment

I heard a little more tonight at the Occupy Oakland General Assembly about Kayvan Sabehgi- the Iraqi war veteran who was cornered and beaten by Oakland cops.  18 hrs in jail and he was only offered an aspirin and a suppository as he writhed in pain.  Bail was posted and he was taken to the hospital.
Rushed into surgery for a ruptured spleen. 

In other news some windows were broken.

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By Janet, November 4, 2011 at 10:31 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Please go and LIKE this page! We set this up several days ago when no one else had a Facebook page for him so we could get a lot of “support likes” and try to send it to him!! please LIKE this page and tell everyone you know to do the same! thank YOU!
https://www.facebook.com/USMarineScottOlsen

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