kerryrose—- can you tell me how long after Martin was shot was this video clip
taken?

hetero

The fact that Zimmerman was cut, blood, and bandage-free directly after he murdered Treyvon Martin negates your worry that he will go free because ‘the kid got annoyed and started pounding on him.’ 

Why not link all available information in your brain before you make stupid comments.

The government of the US is a cancer upon the body politic of our republic! FREE BRADLEY MANNING!!!!!

Vector 56
The present Chaplain of the Senate is Dr. Barry
Black.
The present Chaplain of the House is Rev. Patrick
Conway.
There is a Congressional Prayer Room.
Every branch of the military services has many
chaplains.
Our Pledge of Allegiance has the words “Under God”
in it.
There are a lot better things to complain about than
a Representative braking into a sermon on the floor
of the House.

The thing that worried me most about Bobby Rush’s little stunt is that he broke into a religious sermon
on the floor of the US Congress (House). Talk about wiping your feet on the separation between church AND state.

Steny Hoyer wouldn’t do so much for his constituents, diebolded representative that he is.

Arouete,

Your tirade against gerard was as amusing as I assume you intended.  You take issue with what you call his “irrelevantly screeching” while calmly calling others “ignoramuses” and “hysterics” and punctuating your comments with ALL CAPS and exclamation marks!!!

You state that it’s “a no-brainer” that “...as a matter of law, it’s Trayvon’s absolute rock solid best defense and Zimmerman death sentence.”  You continue, “God. Can anybody in America read what they pontificate on? Is that REALLY too much to ask?”

My friend, “a matter of law,” is an issue that is decided by a judge.  If you ain’t a judge, it ain’t a matter of law.

Trayvon doesn’t need a defense; he’s not likely to be prosecuted for assaulting Zimmerman.  Zimmerman’s death sentence?  With the statute as written, I doubt it.

Your statement, “The root cause of such injustice is law enforcement (not the law but legal ignorance) and citizens who do not have the essential intelligence to READ the plainly worded law the pontificate on and demand it be enforced to the letter,” is somewhat incomprehensible, but to the extent that you believe the law is well-drafted and not a major contributing factor to this tragedy, let me point out that under this statute the police are constrained from even taking a suspect into custody during an investigation of a murder.  Under section 776.032 (1), the perp who makes the claim can’t be detained for investigation, much less arrested, unless the victim is in law enforcement.  How even well intended police can adequately investigate such crimes in Florida is beyond me.

Your characterization of the Florida statute as a “plainly worded law” makes me wonder how carefully you read it yourself.  I find it a fair conclusion that it is a nightmare for law enforcement and a recipe for armed chaos. 

After reading through Title 46, Chapter 776 of the Florida Statutes, I will endeavor to spend as little time in that State as possible. 

The idea that this insane legislation has been added to the penal codes in a number of other States scares the hell out of me.  The country is turning into a neo-feudal armed-to-the-teeth jungle.

I think that Bobby Rush and the many others who have donned hoodies and/or marched to speak out against the attack on Trayvon Martin, but I worry that this focus on the hoody might actually be confusing the issue. The problem for Zimmerman wasn’t the hoody—it was what was under it. Black skin. And too many people in this country still see a young black man (or an old black man for that matter) as threatening, criminal or worse. What is really appalling and frightening about Florida’s Stand Your Ground law being applies in this case is that it legitimizes this negative stereotyping of black men and boys. We should be focusing on that and not on the hoody he was wearing. When Zimmerman called 911, he did not immediately talk about the hoody—he said that he regarded this young man as suspicious, maybe on drugs (without citing a reason). It was only when the 911 operator asked what the “suspect” was wearing that Zimmerman mentioned the hoody. When you think of all the young black—and latino—men who have been shot to death, often by cops, before the “hoody” became a fashion statement, it is clear it doesn’t matter what apparel young black man is wearing—racial profiling will still put all their lives in danger.

gerard—- I live in NYC and the racial animosity between Latino and Black is as
heated as any other of the 57 varieties of racial hatred that NYers practice daily
and with great gusto.

No other city can boast hatred between Filipinos and Japanese, Dominicans and
Puerto Ricans who join together to loathe Haitians, Albanians taking revenge upon
Italians, Russians cursing out Turks and Afghans…..and all the usual
nonsense…not to mention the shit going down in Sunset Park where the Mexicans
are running amok.

hetero:  One more factor suddenly comes to mind:
Zimmerman (with a German name) has been said to be “Latino” and Florida is having some trouble
“assimilating” an influx of “Latino” immigrants recently. This factor might have put Zimmerman on the defensive and made him “frightened.”  There is also the “hierarchy” of non-whites to consider, which (unjustly and unreasonably) places “blacks” on the bottom rung of the vicious ladder and therefore most vulnerable.  I would presume that this also will enter in, unconsciously or otherwise?

gerard—-  I would like to agree but it’s just not possible to say that the law is
gonna let a Latino shoot a black kid out of 100 years of past bullshit.,..

all we have are clear indications that Zimmerman stalked the kid…...
we know what happened to start the thing

and we know the aftermath.

we simply don’t know what happened when the happening was happening.

we all get that Zimmerman is a creep…....and we all want to believe in a fair and
orderly universe….but there is more reasonable doubt than anyone can handle..

would that it were different and it would be wonderful if there somewhere
exists and is discovered enough to erase the doubt….but it can’t be wished
away, any more than the gun fetish in this country can be easily changed.

hetero:  I’m sure it is (deliberately?) ingenuous of you to surmise that “the obnoxious bastard might have annoyed the kid and the kid might have started pounding on him and that means that the law will
protect Zimmerman.”

I believe we can both admit on the evidence of more than 100 years that the law will protect Zimmerman for reasons entirely other than whether or not the kid “might have knocked Zimmerman down, might have started pounding on him” etc. Prejudice was a heavy factor in this case as in so many others.
  Ironically, Zimmerman’s excuse (reason) was that he Zimmerman felt threatened. How many times has that been used as an excuse for excessive authoritarianism before? (Recently the heavily armed police felt “threatened” by Occupy Wall Street unarmed nonviolent protests!)
  The fact is that Zimmerman was justifying his “stalking” by his own suspicions—- nothing else. When he called the “government” official agency (presumably because he knew he was uncertain—why else?) that official, instead of flatly warning him in no uncertain terms to back off, used ambivalent language: “We don’t need you to do that.” But Zimmeran was unfazed.  Making some disparaging racist remark he persisted until the awful end was achieved—and in his head he was doing something helpful!  He was helping “internal security” of all things!
This is how people get twisted by legal overreach allowed to government agencies—suspicion and surveillance of innocent people that inevitably leads to abuses. Thus crime becomes defensible under the guise of “strengthening national security etc.”
People are further divided against each other merely on grounds of suspicion, and democracy is lost in the shuffle.
  All this happened during the 50s and 60 (and before) and we had plenty of opportunity to learn from our mistakes.  But still the effective mantra is “divide and conquer” and we become victims of fears deliberately engendered. Innocent people die, the social fabric is torn to shreads and nobody knows how to put us back together again.

gerard——I’m in complete agreement that Zimmerman started this shit and it was
a needless thing altogether.

the problem that I see is that the obnoxious bastard might have annoyed the kid
and the kid might have started pounding on him ands that means that the law will
protect Zimmerman.

RJ—- no, the disparity in size doesn’t cut it…....  Martin was MUCH taller,
Zimmerman MUCH more stout….but the law doesn’t work that weigh.  ...them
scales of justice are kinda not that literal

Het… the burden of proof is on Zimmerman given the
disparity in size. Some people have been known to set
up a claim of self defense by assaulting themselves say
by punching them selves in the nose or in the side of
the head. Self defense claims generally allow you to
curse back at someone who curses you, to punch someone
who punches you or to shoot someone who appears ready
to shoot you. In other words your response must be
proportionate and appropriate to the degree of threat.
If there is no threat of lethal harm than a lethal
response is not called for.

hetero:  Oh, so sorry.  I am bigger than you and older than you and a good deal bigger and whiter than you and I am a self-appointed “neighborhood watcher” and this is Florida and it was dark and I had a gun and you did not, and I heard you yelling for help, but anyhow ... I was afraid, and so I am “not much culpable” for shooting you dead.  Sorry.

Arouete——- nice piece and if one considers that
Zimmerman claims that Martin punched him, knocking him
down and was pummeling him as he shot the kid, you’ve
clearly shown that, unless that is proven to be untrue,
then Zimmerman is not much culpable for the shooting.

Sharon——hoods should properly fall under the “no-
hat” rule….let’s allow the legislature the right to
govern their own workplace….they might even know what
they’re doing.

http://static.stuff.co.nz/1233108507/771/466771.jpg

Aroute: Some thing or things I said must have completely misled you, and I’m sorry for that, because it is evident we have identical “takes” on the overall sad event and its causes: “racism” and “unwarranted suspicion”—not to mention the sad fact (which I didn’t mention first) of general proneness to “gun violence” in this country.
  The main point I wanted to make was that I speculate that the kind of widespread, invasive and continuous “surveillance” we are supporting from government agencies (under the guise of looking for “terrorists” itself encourages the same kind of suspicion and fear in individuals like Zimmerman (who more or less take it upon themselvesl to “surveille” on their own. 
  That daily-promoted free-floating fear, suspicion, and the tolerance for unwarranted “surveillance”, sets people against each other to the point where democracy is being slowly destroyed before our very eyes. 
  I was generalizing from this sad particular in Florida because I am constantly aware of the disintegration of American society and I believe that the repressive laws passed to support fear and suspicion are largely to blame for that disintegration.

gerard, Suspicion will not suffice under this law. You can’t stop to think till you READ this law. The root cause of such stalking are ignoramuses like Zimmerman who are actually so moronic as the think this law permits one to give chase to a skinny kid because he looks ‘suspicious’.

Instead of irrelevantly screeching about Homeland Security and surveillance go read the damned law you pontificate on. It’s a no-brainer! In fact, as a matter of law, it’s Trayvon’s absolute rock solid best defense and Zimmerman death sentence. God. Can anybody in America read what they pontificate on? Is that REALLY too much to ask?

This is how we dumb stupid down in America: Hysterics who pontificate on a law they never even read but which actually refutes all their arguments. Amazing!

The root cause of such injustice is law enforcement (not the law but legal ignorance) and citizens who do not have the essential intelligence to READ the plainly worded law the pontificate on and demand it be enforced to the letter.  This epidemic of stupidity should scare the hell out of us all.

Wise up! Go read what any 17-year old can comprehend.

See http://open.salon.com/blog/f_arouete/2012/03/24/trayvon_martin_defense_a_pig-sty_beneath_a_racist_facade

Suspicion and the (self-appointed in this case) “surveillance” that goes with that suspicion is the root cause of such stalkings, aggressive “policing” and social violence in general. If you just stop to think a moment, you can see the straight-line connection between this fear-mongered Zimmerman and the fear-mongering Homeland Security mania which is spending millions of tax dollars on scaring the American people into silence,  conformity and decadence, and putting an end to democracy.

I I can tell you from personal experience that very few
men can knock some one down with one punch. I met one
who was a navy champion boxer and another who had
substantial experience fighting in golden gloves
events. These were the only two men I ever met who
could. It is highly unlikely that a 140# kid could do
it without a history of professional training.

Very sad.

A cheap and childish political stunt. Great opportunism in an election year. It’s ridiculous to hold up this poseur as a “truthdigger.”

While I mourn for the dead child and the grief of his family, the fact is we do not know the facts. Perhaps the child’s parents should be celebrated as the real truthdiggers as they seem to be genuinely trying to get to the bottom of what really happened.

Anyway, we will continue down this ludicrous path as long as we continue our love/lust affair with handguns. We do know, in this case, that a man in love with a handgun used it for its intended purpose.

Bravo! A wonderful act of civil disobedience.

Unfortunately the real travesty here is that absolutely no one has been looking at the only thing that is relevant: what this law actually says! And that is the very first place everyone should start. Especially journalists. 

The law in question is simple enough for a 17-year old to understand. Read this article as well as the commentary and I have absolutely no doubt you will agree that the ONLY person who can rely on this law as a defense was Trayvon Martin.

Indeed, even if the later alleged at fight broke as reported the consequence is the same. Under the plain and simple language of this law and the facts as we know them, the ONLY man with a right to STAND HIS GROUND was Trayvon Martin and the only one legally authorized by law to MEET FORCE WITH FORCE was that 6’ 3” 140 lb boy against a 5’ 9’ 240 lb gorilla with a gun! Please read the damned law! It is written with great clarity. Under that law Zimmerman is toast. There is no way he can assert it as a defense. Just read. This one is easy. Come on folks this one is a legal no-brainer  

“Suspicion” will NOT suffice under this statute. Read it. Much more must be specifically shown.  Did Trayvon fight back? Is this even a relevant question? If you were 140 lb skinny teenager displaying none of the behavior SPECIFICALLY REQUIRED by this statute (just read it!) and 250 gorilla came after you as you retreated what would you do?  I rest my case.

Read this article and the comments and be enlightened for thus far too many journalists have been proving the accusation of lack of journalistic integrity it correct.  Please see Open Salon, “TRAYVON MARTIN: DEFENSE A PIG-STY BENEATH A RACIST FACADE?” at http://open.salon.com/blog/f_arouete/2012/03/24/trayvon_martin_defense_a_pig-sty_beneath_a_racist_facade

THINK before you swallow the irrelevant gossip being fed to you by the propaganda mills on both sides of this argument. READ this and see that your intelligence is being insulted and your legal ignorance exploited. THIS ONE IS EASY! REALLY EASY. JUST READ.

Thank You

Millions of Americans loyal to their Constitutional Democracy were there with Representative Rush in hoodies to mourn with Trayvon’s family and friends.
Obviously, however, racism is a viral disease in this country, at the base of our national superiority complex. We need to take off our self-satisfied blinders. .

Thank you, Truthdig, and Bobby Rush, again.

The state of Idaho is rightfully becoming known as
North Mississippi. Rightfully because of its politics,
bigotry and mistreatment of minorities and the poor. I
live within 20 miles of Idaho but not in it. I am very
grateful for this accident of fate.