herb; haven’t you noticed a change in its tone? either
it has been roundly spanked, cowed by hyperbolic
pronunciamento, or both.
its all about constructive debate with recto swerve.
haven’t you noticed? it craves constructive debate, to
build a bridge- so it can move in beneath and dare
anyone to cross. not illegal, mind you, but it should
be.

Careful, Rico!
Limbaugh, O’Reilly, Hannity, Beck, Bachmann, Palin and Gingrich are gonna turn on you and say “He’s not a REAL ‘Conservative’.  He must be a Socialist Lib’rul who just wants to tax th’ rich.”  They’re gonna throw you out of the club (along with anyone else who shows a sign of rational thought).

ITW:

Also, what’s particularly troubling for me is the characterization of some of these payments to brokers as “capital gains” income, taxed at 15%, when they are clearly ordinary income and taxable at the max for those high rollers. Now THAT’s a scandal. Not illegal mind you, but it should be.

ITW:

Thanks for making the distinction. I totally agree.

herb:

Are you the webmaster here? What’s this “we invited him” crap. And “Rico is a troll.” Is that your idea of “useful discussion”?

I heard the Denver Taibbi presentation D.Sirota speaks of in this article last night on ALTERNATIVE RADIO(NPR). I was impressed. Taibbi is a Journalist.

      His observations about his time as a reporter in Russia, and the parallels between the Russian oligarchy and the present American oligarchical D.C./Wall Street collusion made it clear that real Democracy in the U.S.A. has been on life support for a very very long time. And, almost all his thoughts on the Federal Reserve, Wall Street, and reform supported everything FAT FRED and FELICITY have been attempting to hold in dialogue here at TRUTHDIG. He also had some factual insights into MIC war fraud. Joint D.C./Wall Street/MIC looting/collusion is the disease destroying us. They are a separate entity with no concern for Democracy or “We the people—” whatever.

        RICO S. I’m not sure if laws were broken or not but Wall Street financiers knowingly cooked, packaged and sold fraudulent securities that brought the American Economy to its knees. Lives were destroyed Worldwide and the perps walked. If you’re arguing that written law supersedes moral responsibility, or just shape shifting for effect, either way, it’s a bad scene and a lot of people were hurt. On the books or not, it was criminal. “Just sayin’”.

      Taibbi also offered insights into the way news is gathered and reported in the U.S.A. and his conclusions support the opinion of many TRUTHDIG posters. A key observation was the tendency of reporters both “Left” and “Right” to feed their audience “red meat” for kneejerk emotional effect and to report political press releases (spin) as fact without investigation. TRUTHDIGGERS would have loved his admission that often the reporters we depend on for our news know less about an issue than we. He acknowledged that MSM policy is set to punish journalists who don’t conform. Cash, book deals, social status and access to the “elite” are the “perks” that hold our “free” press in silence while Truth begs for light.

        I don’t know how a citizen contains and confronts the destructive anti-human, anti-social, anti-Democratic criminal reality now destroying America. The Russian people and many other populations of the World simply endure. Do our struggles for freedom and human dignity, the blood and bone we’ve given, our lives and childrens future, mean so little?

        Taibbi closed the talk with the sure declaration that citizen voice and action DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

Rico:

I have no desire to do that to Bill Gates or Steve Jobs or anyone who actually produced something.  I don’t even have a desire to strip the wealth from someone who inherited it.

I see nothing wrong with doing it to scoundrels like Ken Lay and his fellow thieves at Enron, or to Bernie Madoff, or to Paulsen, or anyone who gets money rather than makes it.  People who knowingly sell bad investments, hiding their crappiness in fine print and obscure language KNOW they are add no value but are simply finding ways to transfer wealth.

There’s a HUGE difference. between getting money and making it.  It’s called “adding value”.

Rico is a troll.  We invited him into a useful discussion and now that discussion is
over.  De ja vu all over again.
h

ITW:

Which is pretty much the goal of modern leftist progressivism in my humble opinion.

Execution? Prison? Nah!!!!

“The best way to hurt rich people is to turn them into poor people.”—Billy Ray Valentine, aka, Eddie Murphy

boggles:

Oh.

By rico, suave, November 19 at 9:29 pm

“What laws did any of them break? Just asking.”

Thou shalt not steal ~Eighth Commandment

FFred:

Not doubt laws/regs must be tightened up. But big bankers are like computer hackers- you set up a fire wall, someone comes up with a way through it.

None of these repackagings were illegal or fraudulent- immoral, sneaky maybe- but it’s up to Congress to chalk the sidelines and throw them in jail if they go out of bounds (had to use a football analogy- it’s Saturday afternoon).

Calling for the electric chair gets the rabble roused, but doesn’t add to any useful discussion of solutions.

they didn’t break any laws; that’s the problem, you
dolt.

I enjoy Taibbi’s straight on reporting but the comparison to H.Thompson is a little out there. It’s apples and oranges. Does the word “gonzo” translate to: “—you gotta be crazy to tell the truth—”. (By the way, I enjoy D.Sirota.)

      This article opened the door to the “punishment” question. MSM propagandist have been able to insert the unspoken idea, that certain individuals are “above the law”, into the American psyche. It’s an extension of the “too big to fail” spin. That a D.A. can reduce charges to let a rich perp walk on a hit-and-run when armed Swat Teams are kicking in the doors of a family home, and seizing computers, because a kid filmed a traffic stop tells us all we need to know.

        Bow Wow Wow G.ANDERSON. Spot on!!

        FAT FRED is correct. We (I) don’t understand or at the least, fail to take the money game seriously. Probably because we’re shut out of “pay to play”, discussion of the topic is bottlenecked by the MSM and the machinations of the Federal Reserve exist in such a murkey shadowland. I always enjoy the “links”.

        My observation/opinion: For the first time I can remember there is open recognition that foreign money is having as great as influence on American politics as “We the people—”. If American Democracy and destiny has been reduced to a financial hog trough FAT FRED is right in his “wake up” call. Most agree that it is the man-behind-the-man (see the Weill piece). It IS about the $$$$$, so that’s where the fight and discussion should be.

        Regulate the slop trough with financial regulations and prosecutions and demand a transparent financial system. The hogs will squeal—-but remember, pork is the other white meat.

        Campaign Finance Reform. New Financial Regulations and a transparent Federal Reseve. Those are the core problems and every one of them emanates from the thugs on Wall Street.

I’d bet that would bring about reform.

How about some “salafist” retribution. We cut off the hand they used to steal with. Their choice ... ;^)

It’s hard to convict them under laws they wrote, so, perhaps, a bit of extrajudicial justice: 100 bankers dripping from gibbets in Mrka’s largest malls, or 100 bankers dangling from lamp-posts at Mrka’s busiest cloverleafs.  I’d bet that would bring about reform.

WHY NOT?

DS: Lock the door, throw away the key, and the theory says that heinous acts will be prevented.

No, that wont work either; but it will help. Better than letting them get off scot-free.

I suggest the ancient method of public disgrace that was the pillory. Of course, that is difficult to do nowadays, but some well televised perp-walks and TV-coverage of an ensuing trial will do the same.

But, of course, they must be sent to trial for that to happen. And we have the duty to ask, Why they are not being prosecuted? Please Mr. Attorney-General of New York City, why are they not being prosecuted for fraud?

If I went into a bank in NYC and robbed it of a megabuck, Mr. A-G, you’d be all over my ass. Re-selling Toxic-Waste as bona fide triple-A rated Structured Investment Vehicles is fraud, fraud, fraud. Even if they argue “We didn’t know!” Then it’s professional negligence - they should have known.

(If GM sells you a car with serious flaws, is it not liable for the personal damage its product might provoke?)

And the real-estate agents at the origin of the fraud, in connivance with local banks and credit-agencies. Were they not in infraction of the Truth in Lending Act?

And where are the class-action law suits to recuperate lost funds from the Greatest Swindle of the New Millennium?

This article is dead-right. Without prosecution of crime, these nerds will be up to it again—and in no short time. Why the hell not?

At an effective marginal income tax rate of only 32%, why should they not be reaching for the Golden Ring on the Finance Merry-Go-Round?

Why not, pray tell, Why not?

Another great article by D. Sirota.  Taibbi is an excellent journalist. And yet, there’s always someone on this site who will ask something like “What laws have they broken?” I like the humor in that question but just in case it’s a real question, I’ll say: How on earth can they break the law when they themselves are the architects of law-making and they influence the administration of justice. They invest plenty in the political system to make sure they won’t be breaking any laws. I thought everyone knew this by now….I suspect everyone does but many find it hard to accept the truth.

In a capitalistic society, based on economic survival of the fittest, swindling money using innovative financial transactions, is an acceptable practice.  However, owing money to predatory and corrupt financial institutions and failing to pay, is a criminal act.  Madoff is an interesting example.  Like the Mafia, when a head of a family voluntarily capitulated, his family was cared for.  Same with Madoff, his gave himself up to save his family and that is why neither his wife, sons or brother are being pursued.  It’s an honor thing.

rico

There was plenty of fraud to go around. Whether it was the people writing the liars loans at Countrywide, IndyMac and Aurora, or the douchebags at Lehman and Goldman that were packaging them and selling them with AAA ratings. The fraud was/is widespread. In fact, Goldman did pay a fine for one of those, Abacus, or something. And that was only because an email was obtained.

Bill Black has covered this very thoroughly. However, the only true way to know is to open up the books of these zombies, but the government won’t do that.

What is the reason for Sirota’s sterile statements of crime and his jocularity about retribution potential?
Why isn’t there a proposal for changing practices or changing laws to bring fairness back to our justice system.

Do we think that our system of justice is so far gone that we don’t even think of how to correct it? We throw our hands up and say, “If only…”

To me this indicates that we are pretty far gone as a viable democracy. Is the next thing that we advocate an enlightened dictatorship, getting rid of the rotten politicians?

How right you are again.  Thanks.

It’s funny how few people out there get it. What we are experiencing is the next logical step in capitalism. Now that competition has eliminated most of the weaker players, consolidating economic control and capital in the hands of a realive few, the next step has begun. That step being the trip down road to totalitarianism. The only way the uuber wealthy can protect their massive fortunes is to see to it that the people don’t rise up. Now that we are a nation choking on debt, making us unwilling to rise up against our new corporate masters, our only recourse against the Big business Facists is regulation, through a stong centralized government, of the people. But now, after years of buying influence, the few control the media, so they control the message. They control the courts, so the rights of the few that already control almost everything will be protected above all. Now that they have proven that they can purchase the members of the “peoples” government, the final move to consolidate and protect their power (riches) has begun. The proof lies in the fact that our federal government alone now resembles a country club, none millionaires need not apply.

We are just a couple of decades away from national elections being suspended (maybe sooner) It will happen when the combined debt of everyone in the USA, and the States and Federal government, exceeds the value of everything in the nation. By then the idea of the people governing themselves will be a distant joke, for our debters will have carved up our nation, and the wealthy that started this ball rolling will be rewarded with control over the 21st century fifedoms that they created.

The wildcard in this is the american people. We are armed to the teeth, and by then, we should have nothing to lose. But also consider that petroleum products will begin to be scarce by late 2020’s, and by 2040, it will be all but gone. But just like most wars and calamities in human history, those who were rich before the shit hit the fan, will most likely be rich after.

What laws did any of them break? Just asking.

The more things change …  Way back we fought a revolution against corporate
hegemony in the form the British East India Company that was using the
Parliament, the King and the Navy to dispossess the colonies on behalf of many
very wealthy shareholders, many of them in the Parliament itself.  Now we are
called to foment a revolution against corporate hegemony in the form of the
international banking cartel using the Congress, President and Supreme Court to
dispossess helpless people around the world, including here in the US, on behalf
of shareholders, many of them in elected office.

Sounds pretty repetitious to me, but what do I know.  I don’t have an MBA.

G.Anderson has it right. Calvinist philosophy (though Calvinists themselves disagreed on predestination) rules our nation, and succinctly explains why we do not have national health care, free education, public transportation, decent housing for all, etc, etc. Those without health care do not deserve health care, those without housing do not deserve housing, etc.

It is not shocking that the wealthy hold the view that they are blessed by their god; what is shocking is that ordinary people, even those who claim their vision of society is egalitarian, can be found to hold the same view: that the deprived brought it on themselves.

I do not believe in the state’s taking anyone’s life, but there are other ways to teach these greedy sociopaths that there is a price to pay for their behavior.

And, by the way, how can anyone living in the U.S., a nation that elected a farting, smirking idiot, call Chavez a clown? We will never have a Chavez because we will never have a military man radicalized by being called upon to kill his own people.

Simple but improbable solution: strap a few of the most egregious crooks to the big bull on Wall Street and shoot them while everyone is wandering around on their lunch break.  Let them dangle for a few days until they start to smell really pungent.  Then bury them under the street in front of the NY stock exchange.  Put big headstones for everyone to see.  That might deter the crooks for a while.  Nothing like a little embarrassment to get their attention.

The real punishment would never be execution but intolerably lengthy spells in prison, with television supplied as a mandatory addition, which would be programmed to show people enjoying themselves, in complete freedom, with a comfortable, assured life ahead of them, as opposed to these miscreants, who would be tormented by having to watch this being played, on a daily basis, and very likely never to be able to join them.

The wealthy believe, that they are innocent because they are wealthy. They also
believe that the poor are guilty because they are poor. The middle class are merely out
on parole. This is the divine right of kings to make the law in their own image. To kill us
all by poisoning us all slowly, their innocence pre ordained by battalions of lawyers and
crooked courts.

Without enforcement of the rule of law America is just another sub standard country.

What the Wall St. Fraudsters and their stooges did was more damaging to the USA than what all our foreign enemies combined could have done.

“Right, and go a step further,” Taibbi countered. “How about putting a few of them in the electric chair? Are you telling me Goldman Sachs execs aren’t then going to change?”

We both busted out laughing—and hard.

* * * * *

Why are they laughing? This sounds like the most sensible suggestion I have heard in years.

eir ~ aptly put.

If “We the People” had any gumption and were not as misdirected as the Tea Party, we would have, long since, barracaded K-Street allowing lobbyists to only depart and not return. There’s the rub.

Calling out the National Guard would play well on MSM.

Put bankers in jail? That won’t work because they run the Federal Reserve. If you put the bankers in jail, who is going to control the money supply? Politicians? The answer is so glaringly obvious, I still can’t understand why the so-called intellectual class doesn’t get it. I’m tired of beating around the bush. You people are either really stupid, or you like the present system. Which is it?

Here’s a little food for thought, if you guys actually know how to think:

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/december-7-unofficial-pan-european-bank-mutiny-day

It would be a start in the right direction but it will not happen. The conservatives need Wall Street to finance their adgenda. The rest of us can starve to death.

RE: ...that Rolling Stoner is Matt Taibbi, aka the heir to the magazine’s
gonzo throne.

Tally Ho! Celebrity Journalism - hell why not, this nation doesn’t need artists nor
intellectuals, only celebrities…and, why after 10 years has this so little traction?

http://www.ceedweb.org/iirp/ushouseres.htm

THE TOBIN TAX - nominal (ca. 1% tax on financial transactions)

U.S. Congress Concurrent Resolution
on Taxing Cross-border Currency Transactions to Deter Excessive Speculation
(H.Con.Res.301)

Congressman Peter DeFazio (D-OR) and Senator Paul Wellstone (D-MN)
(Introduced April 11, 2000)

It is the sense of the Senate and the House of Reprentatives that the United
States should show leadership by enacting, in concert with the international
community, transaction taxes on short-term, cross-border foreign exchange
transactions to deter speculation. The adoption of such Tobin-style taxes
should be done in coordination with a large number of nations, in a fully
transparent and accountable manner, with the revenue dedicated to urgent
global needs.

A. Introduction

WHEREAS every day over $1.8 trillion in currency exchanges moves across
national borders, a volume far greater than in the last decade; and

WHEREAS such rapid movement of foreign currency has created some additional
opportunities for legitimate productive investment, but also has created the
potential of triggering national currency collapses and resulting financial crises;

I. Currency Market’s Volume and Volatility

WHEREAS daily trading in currency markets increased from $0.2 trillion to over
$1.8 trillion in just over a decade, from 1986 to 1998; by comparison, the trade
in goods and services for all countries for an entire year is only $4.3 trillion;
and, therefore, in less than a week, foreign exchange transactions exceed the
entire annual volume of world trade in goods and services;

    (first 3 of 20 precepts)

Now, therefore be it resolved by the U.S. House of Representatives, that -

(1) It is the Sense of the House that -

(A) The United States should show leadership by enacting, in concert with the
international community, transaction taxes on short-term, cross-border
foreign exchange transactions to deter speculation. The adoption of such
Tobin-style taxes should be done in coordination with a large number of
nations, in a fully transparent and accountable manner, with the revenue
dedicated to urgent global needs;

(B) The United States should build support for and advocate this position at the
World Bank and the IMF, as well as within other regional and international
organizations, including the OECD, the G-8, and the newly established G-20;

(C) This should not be done in isolation of other initiatives for reform of global
finance. Instead, the United States should continue to explore other options
together with the international community. These options include, but are not
limited to: tougher transparency rules, tighter reserve requirements, creation of
exchange rate “target zones”, national currency controls, cash requirements for
mutual funds, and stronger source-country measures such as disincentives for
short-term lending.

Justice is dead.  It has been dead since the Supreme Court pulled a coup and put their man in office.  With the court stacked with law breakers, why should any law be obeyed.

eir says it will take a revolution.  Will eir lead it?  Will he throw petrol bombs at the tanks they send?  Will he or any of us.  We have no leader since a declared leader would be guilty of treason.

I don’t have the answers, just more questions.  What we really need is our own Hugo Chevez.  He may seem like a clown, but he is kicking the elite’s collective asses and getting money and services to the poor people of his country.  His success scares the all the politicians in the “free World.

I always thought a capitalist sniper-assassin would make an interesting plot for a
modern Robin Hoodlem future classic for “Truth , Justice and the American Way”.
Nuking Tel Aviv was brave, and , amazingly, the insanity plea was given “home
detention”.

It will take another Revolution.

http://dailybail.com/home/absolute-genius-make-this-go-viral-quantitative-easing-expla.html