Top Leaderboard, Site wide
November 28, 2014
Truthdig: Drilling Beneath the Headlines
Sign up for Truthdig's Email NewsletterLike Truthdig on FacebookFollow Truthdig on TwitterSubscribe to Truthdig's RSS Feed

Get Truthdig's headlines in your inbox!


Weather Extremes Will Be the Norm As World Warms




Joan of Arc


Truthdig Bazaar
Washington, D.C.

Washington, D.C.

By Gore Vidal
$18.00

Unmasking Deep Throat

Unmasking Deep Throat

By John W. Dean
$15.00

more items

 
Report

This Just In: Islamophobia

Email this item Email    Print this item Print    Share this item... Share

Posted on Sep 13, 2010
youtube.com

By Bill Boyarsky

The evil side of America is on display in the form of a media-fueled Islamophobia that recalls some of the worst bigotry in the nation’s past. This is not what we hoped for in the days after Sept. 11, 2001, or the election of President Barack Obama in 2008.

“During Ramadan, I visited 25 communities, 25 mosques, and I have never seen such a high level of anxiety,” said Hussam Ayloush, executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) of the Greater Los Angeles Area. “Most Americans don’t realize what it is to be a targeted minority. The overwhelming majority of Americans don’t know what it is to be a victim of hate crimes.”

A Washington Post-ABC News poll indicates his impressions may be correct. Forty-nine percent of those surveyed held an unfavorable view of Islam, compared with 37 percent with a favorable view. In October 2002, 47 percent said their view of Islam was favorable and 39 percent unfavorable. A third in the latest poll, about double the 2002 level, said they believed Islam encourages violence.

I was introduced to Ayloush by the Greater Los Angeles area council’s communication manager, Munira Syeda, who was one of my students during a semester that I taught reporting and column writing at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism.

It was the fall semester of 2001. On Tuesday, Sept. 11, I rose early, turned on the television and watched the planes hit the World Trade Center. My class—half a dozen or so students—was to meet at 9 a.m. I didn’t think anyone would show up. But I thought I should check in.

Advertisement

Square, Site wide
I walked through a deserted campus to my classroom in North Gate Hall. Every one of my students was there. It would have been just as easy—and excusable—for them to stay home and immerse themselves in trauma. But they were ready and eager to get started.

We decided each student would examine the impact of the attack on a minority community in the Bay Area. One student picked the Jewish community. Another chose African-Americans. Munira examined Muslims’ reactions. And one chose the Japanese-American community, whose members had been herded into prison camps after Pearl Harbor was attacked on Dec. 7, 1941. That, we all knew, was the most apt comparison. The question was whether Muslims would be treated as Japanese-Americans were 60 years before.

The young journalists started digging. Although some were on unfamiliar ground, they learned about the people they covered, about their lives, feelings and interests.

Meanwhile, fear subsided, the fear that drove Muslim women students to band together with men for the nighttime walk home from the library. The country slogged through wars, elected an African-American president and congratulated itself on being such a forward-looking and tolerant nation—until the craziness started.

How did it start?

A huge factor was the Great Recession. “Under unusual circumstances, we find someone to blame,” said Ayloush. He noted that anti-Semitism was intense during the Depression, and that Mexicans, including U.S. citizens caught up in the hysteria, were deported. The World War II imprisonment of Japanese-Americans was the most egregious example.

Someone has to fan the bigotry. During the Depression, Father Charles Coughlin attacked the Jews in radio speeches that had a wide audience, playing on the anti-Semitism that was part of American life. The imprisonment of the Japanese was preceded by many years of hostile mainstream news coverage of them, stories in which they were portrayed as lesser human beings. Today, misleading blogs on Muslims appear on the Internet. Several anti-Muslim blogs have fiercely attacked the plans to build a community center and mosque near Ground Zero.

One of the leading blogging opponents of the mosque is Jihad Watch, headed by Robert Spencer. Spencer is the author of 10 books, including “The Truth About Muhammad” and, with Pamela Geller, of “The Post-American Presidency: The Obama Administration’s War on America.”

Some of the anti-mosque bloggers are hawkish supporters of Israel. Politico has reported that Jihad Watch was supported by funds provided by Joyce Chernick, a founder of Pajamas Media, a backer of Israel hard-liners. I find it disgusting that supporters of Israel would take part in such an effort.

Diane Winston, who holds the Knight Chair in Media and Religion at the University of Southern California’s Annenberg School for Communication, told me she believes “the whole notion of Islamophobia is tied to an anti-Obama feeling … it’s not politically correct to say you are anti-black. It’s OK to say you are anti-Muslim. … It’s a foil for racism.”

She also said anti-Muslim sentiment slipped into the mainstream media, especially when news outlets began covering the Manhattan mosque story and the threat by the Rev. Terry Jones and his 50-member Florida congregation to burn the Quran unless the planned mosque was moved.

Winston’s remark made sense to me. The “he said, she said” conventions of traditional journalism require that one statement be balanced by another, no matter how loony. As a result, Jones emerged last week as a theological source, worthy of equal time to balance the conciliating words of President Barack Obama and other sensible people. Jones has now abandoned his Quran-burning project, and the media, with its short attention span, will move on to someone else, some other crazy to “balance” the words of the sane.

Today, Muslims are covered as if they were “the other,” a subset outside American life. Why don’t mainstream reporters learn about the Muslim community and report on the daily lives of men, women and young people? What about the writers, the nurses, the athletes, the doctors, the lawyers, the professors, the small business owners, the working-class men and women who are struggling with the sick economy? What about the men and women in the armed forces?

My students found such regular people, including American Muslims, who live their lives just as most people do. It’s hard to believe that the traditional media couldn’t do the same.


New and Improved Comments

If you have trouble leaving a comment, review this help page. Still having problems? Let us know. If you find yourself moderated, take a moment to review our comment policy.

By Inherit The Wind, September 24, 2010 at 5:47 pm Link to this comment

Nemesis:
I read your last post and I realized: I AM a fool.  My evidence? I have wasted time and effort in discourse with you.  But I am struck by something that makes me laugh: If, after that poison-filled barrel of stupidity, you don’t hate me, I’m wondering what you’d say if you DID?

So, as they say, “living well…” and all that, I’m going to sign off this thread and go hug my wonderful little boy and kiss my beautiful wife and smile at how much love is in my family, and how happy they make me. Yeah, I’m a victim…a victim of a loving family and I’m off to relish it and wallow in it.  Maani probably should do the same. However, Nemesis, I doubt you will.  Maani’s right in a way.  You are to be pitied.

Report this

By Maani, September 24, 2010 at 2:59 pm Link to this comment

Nemesis:

“I don’t harbor hatred for anyone ITW. And I especially cannot find it in me to hate you… you provide too much laughter for me to hate you

There are many forms of hatred.  And there are some things worse than hatred.  Your sarcastic and mean-spirited comments are a form of hatred, but worse.  That you cannot see that - and think that just because you don’t “hate” people you are thereby exonerated - is breathtaking.

ITW is right, and I have always agreed, though until now silently: you are (despite any protestations to the contrary, which would be little more than rationale, justification and denial) among the most angry, fearful, sour people I have met on these boards in the many years I have been here.  Your attitude and approach are sarcastic and mean, and you think that you are justified in being so because others here may also be so.  So rather than take the high road and actually show that you are a “better person” than they are, you sink even lower than anyone else - and revel in it.  In this regard, your screen name is uniquely well-chosen.

You may, of course, engage in any manner you wish, including ad hominem attacks, sarcasm, insult and mean-spiritedness.  But don’t then insult my intelligence - and the intelligence of others here - by claiming that you are somehow “above the fray,” and that it is others who should be chastised for their attitudes and/or approaches.

I would rather deal with 10 ITW’s than a single one of you, if for no other reason than that he knows how to engage in civil discourse where you do not.  Yes, he fails sometimes - but so do we all.  You, however, are in “nasty, insulting, unpleasant” mode 24/7/365.

This is why I continue to be concerned for you.  I have rarely seen as much anger, fear and meanness in a person who otherwise seems highly intelligent.

Peace.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, September 24, 2010 at 10:59 am Link to this comment

Maani:  See what I mean?

Nemesis reminds me of Col. Flagg and Sidney Freedman from the long-gone M*A*S*H

Dr. Freedman: “You’re a victim, too, Flagg.  But you’re such an example of walking fertilizer it’s hard for me to care.”

That’s why I don’t feel sorry for Nemesis and his life and soul poisoned by hatred.  I just feel sorry for anyone who has to live with him.

Report this
drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, September 24, 2010 at 7:56 am Link to this comment

Reducing a few thousand years of history to such a
shallow depth obscures its meaning. However, it
works as a distracting cover-up for some people, and
is as typically shallow.

When Hebrew and other scholars clarify that current
members of the religious cult that calls itself
“Jew” are not genuine Jews, another title works
better for me: “The ´Six-Million´ Political Party”. 

This political party really knows how to “warm-up”
the guilt feelings from WWII, and redundantly beat-
up the western world for the Hitler/NAZI atrocities.
Extracting 65yrs worth of “Penance Payments” is
pretty darn good.  While still extracting - - .

It is time to stop disregarding the millions of
soldiers and civilians who lost their lives in WWII,
while freeing Europe, as though they did not exist.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, September 24, 2010 at 4:40 am Link to this comment

So…“Jacob” is the new code-word for Jews.  What’s the matter, is “Goldberg” too obvious and “International financiers” too obscure?

Then you’ll bitch when someone points out that you are anti-Semitic, as if tagging a whole religion and culture isn’t just that.

I feel for the poor Muslims who are all tagged as “terrorists” or “support violence” by the teabaggers!  They are in the same boat.

Report this
drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, September 24, 2010 at 12:19 am Link to this comment

The subject at hand is much deeper than a few
creative cartoons, which “free speech” supported.
And, which “free speech” is being increasingly
suppressed, especially by NAZI/Zionist-types that
govern Homeland Security, increasingly cramping the
style of the “America” of seventy years ago. .

The situation at hand is poignantly described by the
concise summary presented by
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob.  The key to the
situation that has shaped the Middle East and the
western world for more than “a day or two” is
outlined. 

The “Essau” lineage has observed how the “Jacob”
lineage has parlayed western world “guilt,” with the
figure of “six million,” into western world
domination.  With this insight, the Essau lineage
wants to prevent the “dog´s tail” from wagging the
dog´s military might across all its homelands, as
“Jacob” has done in Palestine.

An unjustified +- ten million $U.S., daily stipend
is not enough for “Jacob.”  Manipulating the U.S.
Congress is not enough for “Jacob.”  Manipulating
the U.S. Presidency is not enough for “Jacob.”  Nor,
would manipulating U.S. Military might to destroy
all of Essau´s holdings, be enough for Jacob.

“Essau” has gained insight into the western world
“plague,” and contrary to wholesale dumbidity of
western-world-leadership, is attempting corrections. 
As the dog´s tail continues to “warm up” the feeling
of guilt among western-world leadership.

Report this

By Maani, September 23, 2010 at 7:49 pm Link to this comment

Nemesis:

“Well maani you can rest, I’m 66, retired, and unlike you I don’t have a flock to fleece of its hard-earned cash by playing on their fear of death and selling them delusions.”

An awfully huge bit of presumption there.  I am not a “congregational” minister: I do not pastor a church, and thus do not have a “flock to fleece.”  Rather, my tripartite ministry includes outreach and advocacy for the street homeless, counseling (both “pastoral” and general), and Bible studies - none of which I earn a single dime for.  So you may want to think before you speak next time.

“A Mosque is a community/social center is a Mosque. I hope that as soon as it’s built that a strip joint, a gay bar,and a Church of Satan are built around it. Then we’ll see who’ll be screaming demanding respect and crying about diversity being taken too far.”

Actually, although no Church of Satan is planned (as far as I have heard), there is already a strip joint two blocks away, and a few gay bars within striking distance.  So apparently they are not overly concerned about these things…

You really need to get out more…LOL.

Peace.

@ITW: It wouldn’t be the first time…LOL

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, September 23, 2010 at 7:24 pm Link to this comment

Maani, September 23 at 5:18 pm Link to this comment

I have to admit to feeling very bad for Nemesis.

************************

You’ll hate yourself in the morning….

Report this

By nemesis2010, September 23, 2010 at 5:46 pm Link to this comment

By Hollywood Russ, September 23 at 4:48 pm

”Mr. Wright of the New Yorker, compared the recent tempest in a teapot
(his words) over the Ground Zero Mosque to the explosion of hatred that was
engendered by the Danish cartoons of Mohamed. People were actually killed over
cartoons. It looked for a minute as though WWIII was going to be started because
of some cartoons. It’s a crazy, misguided world we live in now, teetering on the
brink. Will Days of Rage become the meat and potatoes of our political process?
That is all.”

So now the craven pseudo-intellectuals here in the U.S. media equate peaceful demonstrations decrying the building of an “in-your-face” Mosque/Social center to the insane reaction in the Islamic world over a cartoon!

There were at least two embassies torched as well as other structures, riots, insensitive burning of other nations’ flags, deaths and who knows how much property damage in all… and what we had here in the U.S. is like that?

Then that one guy that dared to rip up and burn a few pages of a quran—and lost his job over it—must be akin to Theo von Gogh being stabbed to death, throwing acid in the faces of unveiled women in Kabul and Karachi, the evisceration and maiming of two of the translators of Rushdie’s “The Satanic Verses” and the machine gunning of those architectural tourists in Luxor, huh?

Mr. Wright’s cowering has apparently skewed his sense of proportion.

Report this

By nemesis2010, September 23, 2010 at 5:42 pm Link to this comment

By Maani, September 23 at 5:18 pm

”I have to admit to feeling very bad for Nemesis.  Given the number and length of his posts, it would seem that he has no life apart from Truthdig.  No wonder his worldview is so myopically nationalistic and his approach and attitude so fearful and mean-spirited.  I think all of us “Cristers” should pray to “jeebus” for his health and well-being…LOL.”

Well maani you can rest, I’m 66, retired, and unlike you I don’t have a flock to fleece of its hard-earned cash by playing on their fear of death and selling them delusions.

Besides if you can step out of religious mode and be honest for a second you’ll see that over half of the comments are cites of the person and issues which I’m addressing. More importantly, since I’m not a believer in delusion I have longed ago learned to think rather than asking a preacher what it is that I believe so it doesn’t require a hell of a lot of time to type these commentaries. Just a few minutes really. This week alone I’ve read three books in addition to living and responding. A brain is too beautiful a work of art to waste on sky daddies, unicorns and talking snakes.


———————-
A Mosque is a community/social center is a Mosque.

I hope that as soon as it’s built that a strip joint, a gay bar,and a Church of Satan are built around it. Then we’ll see who’ll be screaming demanding respect and crying about diversity being taken too far. 

———————-

The U.N is NOT a planetary government. The U.N is a vehicle for mediation and a body through which member nations can have their grievances heard and hopefully resolved without resorting to more belligerent means. What the hell good would a planetary government serve in which several of the most powerful players can veto any proposed resolution when it suits their purposes?

———————-

@ maani:

The above response is about 1800 characters. Just citing you required, with the code, approximately 500 characters. That makes it about a 1300 character post responding to three different issues.

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, September 23, 2010 at 2:38 pm Link to this comment

True, Hollywood Russ, and the fellow who is involved in funding this (can’t recall his name) also is co-owner of Fox News with Murdock, most ironic.

Report this
Hollywood Russ's avatar

By Hollywood Russ, September 23, 2010 at 2:32 pm Link to this comment

NG- I could kick myself for characterizing the Cordoba House as merely a
mosque, but that’s the basic level of the conversation now. The Cordoba House is
indeed a cultural center. As Imam Rauf said, it was a push against Muslim
extremists, but then he was characterized as one himself by the kind people at
Fox Noise, et al. He got his just rewards for trying to do something positive in this
screwed up world. I’d love to interview him now. I bet he is still just trying to focus
on moderation versus extremism.

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, September 23, 2010 at 1:49 pm Link to this comment

Hollywood Russ, just to be correct, it isn’t a mosque, it is a Cultural Center.

Unfortunately for aggressive empires they need enemies on the outside constantly to have a reason for vast armies and bases all over the world, and inside to maintain a total surveillance state and police force. We’ve seen both forming here over the passed 30 years. It hasn’t stopped yet.

Curiously back in 1992 Turgot Ozal, then president of Turkey or just recently of it, said that the next enemy of the world will be Islam to replace the Communists as a reason to wage more war by the Western powers. He seems to be correct in his assessment. [Sorry I have no links.]

Report this

By Maani, September 23, 2010 at 1:21 pm Link to this comment

The topsy-turvy, Alice-in-Wonderland world of the Texas Board of Education jumps on the Islamophobe bandwagon:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/23/education/23texas.html?sq=texas&st=cse&scp=6&pagewanted=print

Peace.

Report this

By Maani, September 23, 2010 at 1:18 pm Link to this comment

I have to admit to feeling very bad for Nemesis.  Given the number and length of his posts, it would seem that he has no life apart from Truthdig.  No wonder his worldview is so myopically nationalistic and his approach and attitude so fearful and mean-spirited.  I think all of us “Cristers” should pray to “jeebus” for his health and well-being…LOL.

Report this
Hollywood Russ's avatar

By Hollywood Russ, September 23, 2010 at 12:48 pm Link to this comment

As usual I rambled my way off the page, without an editor to help me. In a
nutshell, Mr. Wright of the New Yorker, compared the recent tempest in a teapot
(his words) over the Ground Zero Mosque to the explosion of hatred that was
engendered by the Danish cartoons of Mohamed. People were actually killed over
cartoons. It looked for a minute as though WWIII was going to be started because
of some cartoons. It’s a crazy, misguided world we live in now, teetering on the
brink. Will Days of Rage become the meat and potatoes of our political process?
That is all.

Report this
Hollywood Russ's avatar

By Hollywood Russ, September 23, 2010 at 12:37 pm Link to this comment

The September 20, 2010 issue of the New Yorker carried a byline in the Talk of
the Town section called, Intolerance. It was written by staffer Lawrence Wright.
He compared the recent explosion of, for lack of a better word, Islamaphobia,
in this country over the plans for the mosque two blocks from Ground Zero in
New York. The mischaracterizations of the Cordoba House, as it was to be
called, was not limited to character assassination of the prime mover behind
the plan to build the Islamic Community Center, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, a Sufi
cleric. Once the jingoistic lies hit the fan, Malcolm X became the father of
Obama via an illicit liaison. Some poll they quote says that 20% of Americans
think Obama is a Muslim. Get real! How can people be duped so easily? Do one
out of five Americans really believe this lie? The price for democracy is
diligence, an educated and intelligent population to vote with caution and follow
politicians with discrimination. Now we are in the throes of Weimar Republic-
like state where people stand for nothing and fall for anything. I’m disgusted
with Howard Dean, and other Democrats who did not denounce hatred and
bigotry from the start. It took Orin Hatch, a Republican, to put some
democratic clarity to the issue. It’s their land, their property, within the building
codes of the city, they have a right to do whatever they want with the property.
Nice going, Senator Hatch. I’d begun to believe that the GOP was a complete
nest of vipers and the breast of democracy in this country (for example, Dick
Cheney). No more Korans, or Qurans according to AP, shall be burnt in a
spectacle of hate, worthy of any fascist totalitarian state.

Report this
drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, September 23, 2010 at 12:24 pm Link to this comment

“Why, you may even start to look towards improving
America instead of worrying about how the other people,
on other continents, are getting on; that’s the job of
the United Nations, isn’t it??”

Allegedly, that is a job of the U.N., more or less.

But then, who controls the U.N.?

And why is it not doing its job ?

Report this

By tedmurphy41, September 23, 2010 at 6:49 am Link to this comment

When it comes to bigoted behaviour, you can’t beat the white American race, second to none.
We have a good number of those people over here in Europe; but then, isn’t that where your history really started.
Isn’t it about time that you all started to live and share together, in a reasonably peaceful manner, after all, you’ve been on the American continent long enough now to be able to do it, and it’s the only way.
Why, you may even start to look towards improving America instead of worrying about how the other people, on other continents, are getting on; that’s the job of the United Nations, isn’t it??

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, September 22, 2010 at 12:33 pm Link to this comment

It is this forum where the verbal brawl is happening, though it is
the other forum, about not pitying the Democrats where I also made
mention of it and where N-G replied. But I will reply back here since
it is more applicable right here and only since Night-Gaunt,
expressed his dismay.

I suspected Night-Gaunt that you would defend your self else I would
not have mentioned you by name in my last post.  And I understand
to an academic level, the male psychology enough of the “to tell it from
your side” need.  As far as words go, I do not have a low opinion of
your words in what you said, and I did read it, all of it and
nemesis2010’s as well.  Oy!  That you should think I had not! 
Whatever…  I call it The Duel of the Roman Numerals.  This kind of
quarrel is common on TD forums.  I have been involved in an
unspecified number myself.  Although I do make sure I give referential
sources or admit what I say is in the realm
of personal opinion. 

For the most part, over the years, I have had high regard for thoughts
you expressed on TD.  But I also see nemesis2010’s side in the
argument being waged, except for his penchant to call you names while
denying he does it.  I wonder if he is even conscious that he does that?
It could be an old behavioral habit.  It is there plain for everyone to see. 
Commendably you seem to resist that immaturity.  At least I have not
ever seen where you name call anyone anywhere, even when you are
vexed with me!  Even so, n2010 seems to give a personal detailed,
though exhausting, view of history that might be found in publication. 
But then, so do you, but not so exhausting.  No way to tell which side
tells the truth, though.  Along with his skill at explanation, he does give
citations of where to read original texts, whether they are factual or not
would take invstigation, but at least they are there. You gave two book
titles.  It is important that readers have a way of checking out exactly
where the information comes from, chapter, pages, etc.  It is ill-
considered to make everyone google everything said then review all the
google results just to verify what is said is true.  And since it is about
world issues, all claims are up for authentication.

From the looks of it, it is highly unlikely neither you nor nemesis2010
can find any ground on which to tolerate each other’s points of view. 
From a personal perspective, I don’t care very much, as it can be an
entertainment if I so choose.  But the argument could go on for eternity
like a couple of the StarTrek episodes, “The Alternative Factor” which
was about two aliens named Lazarus probably so named because one is
from an apparently dead planet, but also one is from our dimension,
and the other from an antimatter parallel universe, in mortal combat…
for eternity, or possibly the episode, “Let That Be Your Last Battlefield”
could be another allegory of your conflict on TD.

It appears to me that your respective arguments lead to no solution or
resolution.  An unending wrestling match.  Since these seem to be
lightly supported history lessons from different points of view, I am
making nothing more than a personal observation and it is not worth
any more than that.  But here’s the thing…since you post your thoughts
on a public forum, those who read them have as much ground to
publicly assess them.

Report this

By nemesis2010, September 22, 2010 at 12:07 pm Link to this comment

4.

By Night-Gaunt, September 21 at 12:20 am

”Any more than any Christian here can be thought of as a potential Dominionist for they are rare here. But they are still more dangerous than any of the violent Muslim based groups we are presently in conflict.”

Provide evidence of Dominionists high-jacking airliners. Please provide evidence of Dominionists decapitating non-believers or believers of other Crister sects. Please provide of Dominionists throwing acid into the faces of fellow Crister females not dress according to their dominionist code. Can you provide any evidence of that the great Dominionists threat exist—on the level that you’d have us believe—any place other than in your mentally ill head?

By Night-Gaunt, September 21 at 12:20 am

”As for cowardice, such a macho posturing from you toward me. Only “real males” can sense such in others? Playing the Alpha Male game is fun for you but it is of no interest to me. Where am I cowering as you say? I have no fear at this time from Muslims as you do or you wouldn’t be on the defensive so much and defend the idea that every Muslim is a potential enemy. That is a phobic kind of fear. Fear is good for defense but only a long as it doesn’t get out of hand.”

You are a coward. Rather than face the truth—due to your pragmatophobia—about Islamist terrorism you try to downplay it and invent an imaginary “other” using Dominionists. You and your ilk are so fearful you INVENT from whole cloth a ridiculous new phobia.

There is no irrationality in the threat posed by Islamists, the governments of the world aren’t spending billions annually because of irrational fears. They’re spending it in RESPONSE to actually acts of terror and threats from real terrorists as opposed to those imaginary ones that exist in your head.

By Night-Gaunt, September 21 at 12:20 am

”Well always leave with a smile and a threat eh Nemisis2010? Sounds again like a Reich winger, from the swagger on down. Something you just can’t help to do or even notice how bad that is.
PS I know that Nemesis was the Greek god’s hit woman.”

A threat? Face to palm. Oh holy virgin in the tree trunk! Only you could think that statement a threat and embrace those that have perpetrated so much terror on innocent people.

How long have you been a resident at Sunnydale Happy Farm?

Report this

By nemesis2010, September 22, 2010 at 12:03 pm Link to this comment

3.

By Night-Gaunt, September 21 at 12:20 am

”If I’m wrong then we will just collapse into the 4th or 5th level collapse as there will be no guiding hand to swoop in to “save us.” Machiavelli said you must remove one organization to replace it with another. That is how I see it. Only a very few need know the whole truth. The rest will just follow their own inclinations that dovetail in what they want. However they will have to end the present economical attitude we have now or their own empire will be short lived.”

Goodness! Admittedly no evidence and yet you’ve got the whole scenario figured out! And of course, as usual, you’re one of the few! Jeebus on a grilled cheese sandwich! This isn’t even conjecture it’s pure bullshit made up of whole cloth.

One can pull of articles all day long on Islamist terror activity around the globe and yet to you and your ilk it’s the American empire that is the purveyor of all that is evil in the world. It’s a shame that you haven’t a clue how much denial it requires to hold on to that tin-foil hat conspiracy theory of yours.

Even Sparky is on the floor laughing his ass off on that one.

By Night-Gaunt, September 21 at 12:20 am

”So what’s your point?”

No point, I’m simply responding to your dumbass innuendo.

By Night-Gaunt, September 21 at 12:20 am

”What you just said seems to contradict what was said previously when you intimated that Muslims should all be treated with suspicion and doing so isn’t wrong.”

It only seems to contradict in your mind NG, if you’d cease making all those erroneous inferences that you do in order to make the pieces fit into your bizarro world jig saw puzzle nothing would seem to contradict.

No, I don’t agree with hardly anything you say because your positions are totally hypocritical, full of guilt and self-loathing. You claim to care about women rights, minority rights, etc. and then defend the very people who are committing mass murder of innocent civilians and who want to institute the most barbaric system of oppression every known –Islamic theocracy!

Those Islamic cesspools aren’t cesspools because of the West. They are what they are because of their system of beliefs! It’s their system that sucks; not ours! I don’t carry guilt because of their failure to realize that. I don’t blame us for their refusal to see the truth.

No, you don’t allow them to continue to immigrate here. That’s suicide! You haven’t answered the question of how does one distinguish which Muslim is a clandestine Jihadist and which is not. Tell me how to distinguish them?

By Night-Gaunt, September 21 at 12:20 am

” So you aren’t bothered by Muslims anywhere then if they come to live here? Good then we can agree. They aren’t automatically an enemy.”

No I don’t agree at all. Tell us how do we distinguish a Jihadist from a regular Muslim if they are operating clandestinely? Why would a Muslim want to leave his heaven on earth Islamic theocracy/autocracy to live in the land of the Great Satan? Answer that! Why?

Report this

By nemesis2010, September 22, 2010 at 12:00 pm Link to this comment

2.

By Night-Gaunt, September 21 at 12:20 am

”And yet the USA is in three of them!”

Wrong again! We are in two of them. We conduct, when necessary, missions into a notorious “badlands” section of Pakistan with the consent of the government which is our ally. If they’re not our ally then perhaps they should stop coming on their knees as mendicants begging and offering “intelligence” in exchange for debt forgiveness and financial aid.

By Night-Gaunt, September 21 at 12:20 am

” Really when did I say any ofthat? Dominionists are real but I can’t prove they are the ones.”

Quote mining and taking a quote out of text purposely leaving the first part which deals with you and your tin-foil hat ilk.

That’s right, you can’t prove it, as in you don’t have any evidence so all that you say about the supposed Dominionists’ conspiracy is conjecture and pure made up bullshit that fits in with your convoluted world view.

By Night-Gaunt, September 21 at 12:20 am

” Cheney certainly did the kinds of things I would expect they would do to continue to erode our rights, not “privileges” as you contend they are. Another example of how they think and you do to.”

That still doesn’t mean he’s a dominionist. Obama has maintained most of Bush policy, does make him a republican?

I agree with George Carlin, if what we had were rights no government would be able to take them away –especially when you need them most re Japanese Americans 1940s.

By Night-Gaunt, September 21 at 12:20 am

” Considering how much the country had been deliberately changed after 1980 with a direct correlation between the destruction of the Middle Class it suggested to me that the conspirators decided to go a more circuitous rout to achieve their ends. Our gov’t can’t operate without them now…”

You need to take your meds exactly as prescribed on the labels. The eroding of the middle class is not a one time event and didn’t start in the 1980s.

You should trying living in the 21st century. If the “American Empire” were anything like the British and Roman empires Iraq and Afghanistan would be leveled and all the oil in those reserves would have a giant siphoning hose on them filling up tankers to carry all the booty to the motherland. Many of the governments where our bases are located are at the request of the host countries. That the world’s oil can be produced and sent to market with relative ease is beneficial to the entire world and is one of the main reasons we aren’t seeing more starvation than that which already exist. Crude is the lubricant of the world’s economy.

Report this

By nemesis2010, September 22, 2010 at 11:55 am Link to this comment

1.

By Night-Gaunt, September 21 at 12:20 am

America did it! America did it! America is the root of all evil in the world since the beginning of time! (My, nemesis2010, paraphrasing of NG’s 3 paragraph anti-American rant)

Actually it’s the Turks fault! The Turks fought as an ally of the Germans in WWI. Had they remained neutral or joined the winning side, the British Empire wouldn’t have had to carve up the old Ottoman State, thus creating Iraq. If you want to we can take your deliri et insani argument to reductio ad absurdum levels. It’s the Jews fault!

If Abraham hadn’t nailed that Egyptian gal, Hagar, they wouldn’t have produced Ishmael, the progenitor of the Arabs! Without the Arabs there would never have been an Arab royal as head of the never to have been created Iraq because all of history would have been different.

As a matter of fact if we take it back another step it’s the Hebrew god’s fault because had he not made Sarah barren there would have been no reason to give Hagar to Abraham. So it’s god’s fault! Reductio ad absurdum enough for you?

”Once in power in Iran, Khomeini appealed directly to Iraq’s Shiites to replace a corrupt secular regime with a just – this is, Islamic – state. Saddam knew this was fertile ground and he responded harshly. Using the pretext of a failed assassination attempt on Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz by a Shiite radical, Iraqi security forces on April 1, 1980, arrested the Grand Ayatollah Muhammed Baqir al-Sadr, Iraq’s most senior Shiite cleric, and his sister Bint al-Huda. While the ayatollah was made to watch, the sister was raped and murdered. The torturers then set afire al-Sadr’s beard before driving nails into his head. A furious Khomeini called for Saddam’s overthrow. On September 17, 1980, Saddam abrogated the Algiers Accord and defiantly asserted Iraqi sovereignty over the entire Shatt al-Arab. Five days later, he launched war.” –Peter W. Galbraith, “The End of Iraq”

By Night-Gaunt, September 21 at 12:20 am

”Terrorism is a military tactic, and is in the eye of the beholder i.e. USA.”

ter•ror•ism (tèr¹e-rîz´em) noun

The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Beholders with eyes: Canada, Britain, Spain, France, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, our ally Pakistan, etc.

Now you’re here condoning terrorism as a military tactic! You are flailing like a drowning idiot in an ocean. The groups that you are cheering are murderers and against all the things you are supposedly for. I had you pegged for an Islamic ass-kissing fraud from the beginning. You don’t give a rat’s butt about women, liberties, and human rights. You’re as phony as the day is long.

Report this

By nemesis2010, September 22, 2010 at 11:52 am Link to this comment

By diamond, September 20 at 9:24 pm

”You know as well as I do Nemesis that the only reason America hasn’t invaded Pakistan is that they have nuclear weapons. Any Muslim country that doesn’t get nuclear weapons, anyway it can is in danger of being invaded - and they know it.”

And your source for that information? How high up in the government are you? This is nothing more than fantastica fornicatio from yet another self-loathing, pragmatophobic America hater?

Are you aware that Pakistan is supposedly our ally? Not only have we forgiven them multimillions in debt but we have provided them with multimillions more. Perhaps if it wasn’t a theocracy it wouldn’t have to feign friendship with its beggar bowl in hand.

The last thing Pakistan or anyone else desires is to have a nuclear exchange with the U.S. You think all those fat-assed imams and ayatollahs really believe all that crap about paradise? You’ll know they believe all that bullshit they preach when they strap suicide bombs on themselves instead of the mentally challenged, grieved women, and deluded fools.
 
Pakistan is arguably the one ally that can bump Israel from the #1 spot as the absolutely worse friend any nation could possibly want as an ally.

That does not speak well for Pakistan!

By diamond, September 20 at 9:24 pm

”ITW arguing with people like Nemesis is a waste of time (though I understand why you do it). This person is full of hate and fanaticism.”

It’s useless if you’re going to attempt to pass off bullshit as truth.

I don’t hate anyone, you have to label me because cannot dispute the evidence. All you and your cowering ilk have is innuendo and ad hominem.

Who did they arrest in Chicago planning to bomb innocent civilians? It wasn’t anyone named Bubba born in Idaho or Texas, was it? http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-09-20/chicago-man-charged-by-u-s-in-plot-to-bomb-city-s-north-side-neighborhood.html


From what country were the 6 in England planning to “do harm” to the Vicar of Jeebus; Scotland or Algiers? 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1312918/POPES-UK-VISIT-Six-men-arrested-plot-harm-Benedict-XVI.html

Who are they that are filled with hate and fanaticism? The facts speak for themselves; that’s why you’re left with nothing but ad hominem.

By diamond, September 20 at 9:24 pm

”He is as bad as the most convinced terrorist, operating from prejudice, bigotry and intolerance and guided only by hate and ignorance and therefore cannot be reasoned with. If he was dying and in need of a blood transfusion and the only blood he could get was Muslim blood he would prefer to die.”

That’s simply not true and demonstrates that you’ve nothing more than lies. You’ve got nothing!

The Saudi king and their security czar held top level anti-terrorism talks this past week with the U.S. and Canada. And guest who it is they want to clamp down on?

”’The meeting focused on the need to ... build strong and fruitful cooperation to reduce the spread of terrorism in all countries in the world, especially in the Middle East and the importance of working together to fight Al-Qaeda and terrorism,’ SPA said.”
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.ea82bc6253fc57b2bcc9e969f94726ce.41&show_article=1

So are the Saudis filled with hate also? You best take your dog and pony show elsewhere.

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, September 21, 2010 at 5:16 pm Link to this comment

Fareed Zakaria interviewed a former al Qaeda jihadist, Noman
Benotman who was a close ally of Osama bin Laden, and who wrote
an open letter to bin Laden calling all Islamists for a complete laying
down of arms.  It was a very interesting interview where this guy has
probably put his life on the line. The letter can be read at
http://tinyurl.com/393xyge

http://tinyurl.com/35trx3r
Also a Brothers Judd article that is relevant and possibly informative
article.  I say possibly since there is no way for ordinary people to check
it out. I place myself in that lofty group.

and Zakaria’s program at
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/fareed.zakaria.gps/

There was also a lively discussion last Sunday with five guests, Kathleen
Parker, Bernard-Henri Levy, Chrystla Freeland and Dan Senor who
discussed the American middle class and the Middle East peace talks.

Fareed has been criticized by some people but regardless his is one of
the few editorial programs I watch having given up all the other CNN TV
news and other MSM news and news editorial programs.  I get my
headline news at google news.

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, September 21, 2010 at 10:37 am Link to this comment

Don’t forget that the former hit man & President of Iraq, Saddam Hussein was “our thug” till for some reason I can’t recall turned on him. Hussein hadn’t changed one iota, yet the fickleness of our leadership decided it was better to trash Iraq. Iraq was one the most western (women freedoms) countries in the Middle East with a prosperous populace and relative calm. Even with a vain and paranoid despot in charge. Now? The USA has left it in a awful state. Full of internecine warfare, death squads, bombs, untrustworthy gov’t. You get the idea that the USA made things so bad they wish their late despot was back. That is low and bad.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, September 21, 2010 at 4:10 am Link to this comment

People forget that in Operation Desert Storm, that guys we were defending were just as bad as the guys we were fighting. 

When Iraq was pushed out of Kuwait and the Al Sabah family was restored to power, the first thing they did was round up all the heroes who stayed and formed the resistance to Iraq—and “disappeared” them, killing anyone who could be a rallying point to replace their own tyranny.

The difference between Saddam and Al Sabah? Al Sabah are “our sonuvabitches” and owe us big time. Saddam wanted to control their oil fields and access to the Persian Gulf.  In that, the threat was very real.

At least GWHB was far smarter than his son and realized that toppling Saddam would lead to…well, where we are now in Iraq.

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, September 20, 2010 at 8:48 pm Link to this comment

Continued;

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=5564

Information on all those bases you are ignorant of.

If I’m wrong then we will just collapse into the 4th or 5th level collapse as there will be no guiding hand to swoop in to “save us.” Machiavelli said you must remove one organization to replace it with another. That is how I see it. Only a very few need know the whole truth. The rest will just follow their own inclinations that dovetail in what they want. However they will have to end the present economical attitude we have now or their own empire will be short lived.

I’ve met several. I used to work in Saudi, the Emirates, Yemen, and other places all over the world. I’ve worked in places where every nationality and race numbered in the hundreds and thousands. So what?

So what’s your point? What you just said seems to contradict what was said previously when you intimated that Muslims should all be treated with suspicion and doing so isn’t wrong. Which is it? You seem to want to have both sides of the argument. So you aren’t bothered by Muslims anywhere then if they come to live here? Good then we can agree. They aren’t automatically an enemy. Any more than any Christian here can be thought of as a potential Dominionist for they are rare here. But they are still more dangerous than any of the violent Muslim based groups we are presently in conflict.

As for cowardice, such a macho posturing from you toward me. Only “real males” can sense such in others? Playing the Alpha Male game is fun for you but it is of no interest to me. Where am I cowering as you say? I have no fear at this time from Muslims as you do or you wouldn’t be on the defensive so much and defend the idea that every Muslim is a potential enemy. That is a phobic kind of fear. Fear is good for defense but only a long as it doesn’t get out of hand.

If you’re in my neck of the woods it’s you that had better be a little cautious around me. This old grandfather will surprise you because I’m always packing… even though you’d never know it to look at me. Tricks of the trade. smile

Well always leave with a smile and a threat eh Nemisis2010? Sounds again like a Reich winger, from the swagger on down. Something you just can’t help to do or even notice how bad that is.

PS I know that Nemesis was the Greek god’s hit woman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemesis_(mythology)

“Nemesis” is now often used as a term to describe one’s worst enemy, normally someone or something that is the exact opposite of oneself but is also somehow similar. For example, Professor Moriarty is frequently described as the nemesis of Sherlock Holmes.

Fits us quite well and you are the violent one & full of hubris. (Ironic, see original meaning of Nemesis.) A danger to yourself and others. I didn’t want to be your enemy but you insisted. I still decline your designation.

PSS diamond,, with the USA inside Pakistan, their nukes will be useless, just conventional weapons. So far Pakistan is holding together but it is shaky right now. The USA may intervene to “save” them for “stability.”

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, September 20, 2010 at 8:20 pm Link to this comment

The Iranian theocracy was a direct result of the USA overthrowing the duly elected moderate and replacing him with the dictatorial Shaw. So it did contribute to it.

Yes Saddam was fearful and the USA inserted itself on his side in 1983 to fight the blow back. Saddam also asked the USA if it was alright to go ahead and take back the “province 51” and was told the USA has no treaties. So he thought that was a yes and found out otherwise. He had gone the UN rout for years and got now where. The British were the ones who sliced off that bit of Persia in the first place. [The USA had no treaty with Kuwait and didn’t tell him no.]

Pres. GHWB made sure to organize a coalition and lied to get the UN approval and talk of “mushroom clouds” etc. did the job at the right time to sway them to his side. [Babies being thrown out of incubators was the worst one used, a lie, but did the trick at the right time.]

Again you demonstrate just how unbalanced—probably bordering on full insanity—your reasoning(?) is. The Taliban, al Qeada, the Muslim brotherhood, etc. ARE NOT COUNTRIES! They are terrorist organizations! They stand against everything you claim to stand for!

Terrorism is a military tactic, and is in the eye of the beholder i.e. USA.

And yet the USA is in three of them! Your credibility gets shot down in flames when you ignore that. Occupation of Iraq, Afghanistan, and increased shooting war with drones in Pakistan. The Pakistanis are increasingly worried and angry at that. Especially when their own people are being killed in increasing numbers by our drones. You do know that don’t you?

An al Qeada operative throws acid on the face of an unveiled woman walking down the street and to you it’s a MOSSAD agent trying to give Islamists a bad name. An Islamic group blows up a pizza parlor filled with families and gives credit on a tape or video to Allah for their murderous activity and you mad-hatters blame it on the U.S.

Really when did I say any ofthat? Dominionists are real but I can’t prove they are the ones. Not privy to their meetings or if they would be stupid enough to carry cards. I go by what I see, and I analyze at a distance. True it is more conjecture than anything but you fail to even research any of it. Cheney certainly did the kinds of things I would expect they would do to continue to erode our rights, not “privileges” as you contend they are. Another example of how they think and you do to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot for a nice concise rundown of the plot.

Considering how much the country had been deliberately changed after 1980 with a direct correlation between the destruction of the Middle Class it suggested to me that the conspirators decided to go a more circuitous rout to achieve their ends. Our gov’t can’t operate without them now. They are rich so they can’t be bribed. Most of their followers wouldn’t even know or suspect the plan they have. Tear down the Republic piece by piece over time. Control both parties. Riddle it with their operatives, suck the money to pay for their wants—-like a huge external empire as we have now. Weapons, most of which are good for huge wars, not any thing else. Degeneration of our own civilian infrastructure and let the economy be wrecked. It still is in the ICU and unless that changes we can still go the the 3rd stage of collapse as Dmitry Orlov saw happen in Russia in the 1990’s, http://www.cluborlov.com for the details in case you are interested. It is my opinion that the Dominionists (they are under various names other than this) want a theocracy here. Cheney fits the profile of one. I can’t prove this but from what I see it fits.

Report this

By diamond, September 20, 2010 at 5:24 pm Link to this comment

You know as well as I do Nemesis that the only reason America hasn’t invaded Pakistan is that they have nuclear weapons. Any Muslim country that doesn’t get nuclear weapons, anyway it can is in danger of being invaded - and they know it.

ITW arguing with people like Nemesis is a waste of time (though I understand why you do it). This person is full of hate and fanaticism. He is as bad as the most convinced terrorist, operating from prejudice, bigotry and intolerance and guided only by hate and ignorance and therefore cannot be reasoned with. If he was dying and in need of a blood transfusion and the only blood he could get was Muslim blood he would prefer to die.

Report this

By nemesis2010, September 20, 2010 at 12:44 pm Link to this comment

4.

By Night-Gaunt, September 19 at 7:11 pm

” Indeed it does but not you. You’re all for continuing the GWOT and eating up the swill that passes for truth here that is given by them in gov’t. 878 military bases are fine for you in over 100 countries. The trillions spent on it are fine for you.”

Really? Prove it!

By Night-Gaunt, September 19 at 7:11 pm

”Why do you think I want to stop it? Why do you want it to continue? Why doesn’t that piss you off?”

Because you’re a fool and you believe that if you just cower and kiss your enemy’s ass and lick his boots he’ll let you be. It ain’t gonna happen! As a matter of fact, it is those like you that they despise most. Brutish men hate cowardice and little pansy-assed girlie men like you. You and your craven ilk are like raw meat to a starving lion to those animals.

It does piss me off. That’s why I say rid the earth of their shadow and let them be like the Baader-Meinhof gang—a bad memory and an example.

By Night-Gaunt, September 19 at 7:14 pm

” Google “Dominionism” sometime. They practically run the two parties. NO myth here. But then they are among the richest here. They have plenty of followers that are not and have no idea they want to wreck the Republic. Some of the rank-and-file would like that. Whether from the back door or through the front. A corporate theocratic empire here. [They could do even more damage than they have for the past 30 years.]”

One thing all you conspiracy theory nuts have in common is that you’re always ready to blame anybody but the guilty parties for whatever tin-foil hat conspiracy you come up with.

An al Qeada operative throws acid on the face of an unveiled woman walking down the street and to you it’s a MOSSAD agent trying to give Islamists a bad name. An Islamic group blows up a pizza parlor filled with families and gives credit on a tape or video to Allah for their murderous activity and you mad-hatters blame it on the U.S.

I can challenge people like you because I have access to someone with the evidence to PROVE what took place on 9/11. My dog Sparky! Sparky is a member of an ultra-secret intergalactic spy agency. He even gave me a super-duper interceptor/decoder ring which means I have access to all communications between the agency and its operatives in the field. I could tell you what really happened but then I’d have to kill you after.

By Night-Gaunt, September 19 at 7:14 pm

”Tell me straight up. When you meet someone who is Muslim, are you worried at all? Would you meet one? Or do you treat them the way you meet anyone else?”

Why would I be? I’m not you, I don’t cower. Real men sense cowardice in others. You can smell a coward.

I’ve met several. I used to work in Saudi, the Emirates, Yemen, and other places all over the world. I’ve worked in places where every nationality and race numbered in the hundreds and thousands. So what? I even had a Muslim manager for a corporation that I was helping out beg me to go to work for him. But I didn’t like working in office environments and refused the offer. While I was there we got alone just fine. What has that to do with the price of bread?

If you’re in my neck of the woods it’s you that had better be a little cautious around me. This old grandfather will surprise you because I’m always packing… even though you’d never know it to look at me. Tricks of the trade. smile

Report this

By nemesis2010, September 20, 2010 at 12:41 pm Link to this comment

3.

By Night-Gaunt, September 19 at 7:11 pm

”Here’s a clue for you John Yoo is one of those complicit is calling such criminal actions as rendition legal. But in any country that distorts is legal branch to supporting criminal acts that is trouble. Most of those “rendered” have been taken off of city streets, not battle fields. Also unlike you, I see the Bill of Rights as a beacon of Human Rights, for everyone. Because if we don’t treat everyone the same way eventually that rotten thinking will hit us as well as we have seen.”

In urban warfare the city streets are the battlefield! DUH!

The “Bill of Rights” is in actuality a “Bill of Privileges.” Any time a government can take away your rights they aren’t rights. If everyone was treated the same Paris Hilton and Scooter Libby wouldn’t walking the streets and there wouldn’t be country club prisons for the super-wealthy who screwed up so badly that all their money couldn’t buy off enough people in the right political offices.

Just one more sign of your pragmatophobia.

By Night-Gaunt, September 19 at 7:11 pm

”It does and it pisses me off more that the US gov’ts actions make it worse. Do everything they can to promote it, to get more to join. Stupid unless you want a dictatorship with help from paranoia and and enemy you have helped to create and feed. Such countries need enemies. Doesn’t that bother you? Seems not to.”

This is an example of why I can’t respect any thing you say NG. The only U.S. actions that promote increased recruiting is the cowardice portrayed by you and your ilk running up the white flag of surrender and cowering at all of their feigned outrage.

We have a determined and unreasonable enemy that is a viable threat to Western civilization. You cannot reason with them. Regardless of what we do they are determined to see our way of life destroyed. The only proper method of dealing with such an enemy is to rid the earth of its shadow. Annihilate them!

Again you demonstrate just how unbalanced—probably bordering on full insanity—your reasoning(?) is. The Taliban, al Qeada, the Muslim brotherhood, etc. ARE NOT COUNTRIES! They are terrorist organizations! They stand against everything you claim to stand for!

The things they hate most about us are things like emancipated women, science, and the separation of church and state. You’ve boxed yourself into a corner of perplexity because you’re a craven pragmatophobic who tries to conceal his cowardice behind a façade of intellectualism, reason, and multiformity. You’re a full-fledged member of what Peter Wood (Diversity: Invention of a Concept) calls the “Church of Diversity.”  You don’t tolerate terrorists; you depose of their carcasses in a pyre pit!

Report this

By nemesis2010, September 20, 2010 at 12:38 pm Link to this comment

2.

By Night-Gaunt, September 19 at 6:50 pm

”The USA is looked upon as a Christian nation because there are so many Christians running it and advertising it as one. The 3 nations are Pakistan, Iraq and Afghanistan for the historically impaired. Yemen and Southern Somalia are on their list and have been subjected to “actions” mostly black ops.”

So when did we invade and occupy Pakistan?

All those fumes that you’ve been breathing in from having your head stuffed up you arse are affecting your ability to distinguish between Jihadist groups and legitimate governments. The U.S. is helping to prevent the Yemeni government being overthrown by the same bunch of loony Islamists that the rest of the world has been suffering. Somalia is an Islamic anarchic cesspool. 

Evidence?

By Night-Gaunt, September 19 at 6:50 pm

”No I’m not for the US intervention in Congo. But it would be for a better reason than for oil and power. For saving human life, which it never is for. So it is better to have gov’t hands off. But independent people if they dare could. Still any intervention is a mess, armed or not. So you read me wrong again.”

What you’re saying is that you’re not against U.S. intervention if it meets your criteria. You have also said that you desire independent intervention. I’ve shown you how the scale of what you desire requires the finances and force that only a State can muster.

I don’t read you wrong; you’re all for people killing each other under the right circumstances -those being your defined circumstances. Well, as long as YOU don’t have to risk your sorry-ass life for it. We established that on the previous article.

By Night-Gaunt, September 19 at 6:50 pm

”You never said it directly but you support us staying everywhere so that is a yes. Withdrawl? No so you support Crusade, because they do. You agree with them for their reasons. Dominionists are real and many of them or in gov’t for awhile like Cheney.”

It’s bullshit like this that robs you of any credibility. Like the cowering, white flaggers invention of “Islamophobia” you are now misusing a term in order to label an action in a negative fashion.

What is going on in Iraq is not a “crusade” in the normal sense of the word. The only definition that would apply is the last one: ”A vigorous concerted movement for a cause or against an abuse.” –which makes the effort worthwhile and righteous because we are righting wrongs.

I’ve told you before; you don’t have to make crap up.
Present us with the evidence that Cheney is a Dominionist. I didn’t think that a spawn of Satan could even be a Crister.

By Night-Gaunt, September 19 at 7:11 pm

”For such a rubber knife you find the need to fight back. You have said that using the all encompassing screed against all Muslims is okay.
Sure you did just now. You can’t help it, & you can’t apparently see it. It must be something in your back ground that must deal with recalcitrant threats like me. I am sorry for you.”

If I’m fighting back I must have been attacked, right? So, all those words when all you had to do was admit that I’ve never said what it is that you are claiming I said.

Report this

By nemesis2010, September 20, 2010 at 12:34 pm Link to this comment

1.

By Night-Gaunt, September 19 at 6:50 pm

”Iraq was stable till we got involved on Iraq’s side for the blow back from Iran which we interfered with their democratic elections in 1953.”

Iraq was anything but stable. Since its creation by the British Empire is has been a brutish totalitarian rule by an Arab Sunni minority over its Shiite majority and Kurds as well as several other small ethnicities.

Iran/Iraq war wasn’t about the deposing of Iran’s duly elected leader in 1953. Iraq invaded Iran and part of the reasons were ongoing border disputes and fear of a Shía revolt due to the newly created Iranian theocracy.

Stop making crap up NG.

By Night-Gaunt, September 19 at 6:50 pm

”Such fighting did not occur until the USA attacked Iraq, under false pretenses (twice) first in 1990 and has had it blockaded since. It was only lifted after the second invasion and occupation. [War crimes here under the Nuremberg Laws after WW II.]”

You have to pull your head out of your arse if you wish to continue.

Iraq attacked Kuwait and suffered the consequences of that action at the hands of a broad coalition and U.N. approval. No breaking of Nuremberg laws. Even the sanctions were U.N. sanctions put in place to curtail the actions of a belligerent nation.

Stop making crap up NG.

By Night-Gaunt, September 19 at 6:50 pm

”Pakistan and Saudi Arabia were the ones who helped those who attacked us on 9/11/01! Yet they are our allies. Can you beat that? Pakistan, a dictatorship most of its existence, use the Taliban to stabilize Afghanistan. It was only when the USA decided to blame the Taliban for Al-Quiada that things got really messy. Ah such tangled webs.”

Precisely! And it gets worse; The Shrub paid the Taliban 43 million for its supposed efforts in the “War on Drugs.” When the U.S. & the MSM was praising the Taliban for having wiped out the poppy production we have this little tidbit:

”To make matters worse, U.S. officials were naive to take the Taliban edict at face value. The much-touted crackdown on opium poppy cultivation appears to have been little more than an illusion. Despite U.S. and UN reports that the Taliban had virtually wiped out the poppy crop in 2000-2001, authorities in neighboring Tajikistan reported that the amounts coming across the border were actually increasing. In reality, the Taliban gave its order to halt cultivation merely to drive up the price of opium the regime had already stockpiled.”
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3556

The Taliban didn’t stabilize Afghanistan, they terrorized and subjected it. Afghanistan history has always been one of warring tribes. And the U.S. didn’t blame the Taliban for al Qaeda. It, rightfully, held it responsible for protecting al Qaeda in Afghanistan. The Northern Alliance was the common enemy that founded the bond between the Taliban and al Qaeda.

Yep, politics is a messy game.  And I reiterate: U.S. officials have been played like a fiddle by people much more cunning and devious than ours.

”In the 1980s, Pakistan got a blank check from the U.S. to combat the Russians, and spent the much of the check in building up the Taliban. Now it is getting another check and a brand-new interest-free mortgage in order to pretend that the Taliban are its enemies. It just doesn’t get any better than this.” –Christopher Hitchens, “Love, Poverty, and War: Journeys and Essays”

Report this

By Sodium-Na, September 19, 2010 at 8:07 pm Link to this comment

Anyone interested in getting an idea how some fundamental Christian evangelicals infiltrated the U.S.Air Force Academy Cadet should Google the following article:

The Cancer from Within by David Antoon.

This remarkable article was published in Truthdig website about three years. I have just finished reading it again. It is interesting now as it was about three years ago. It is worth the time reading.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, September 19, 2010 at 5:15 pm Link to this comment

Pass the popcorn!

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, September 19, 2010 at 3:14 pm Link to this comment

III


So now it’s the Dominionists who are responsible for intervention in Iraq(?)… whodda thunk it?

I thought it was the Jews, the neo-cons, the Zionists, the republicans, Cheney, or the Ducaz and that whole Nibirian planet X thingy?

Google “Dominionism” sometime. They practically run the two parties. NO myth here. But then they are among the richest here. They have plenty of followers that are not and have no idea they want to wreck the Republic. Some of the rank-and-file would like that. Whether from the back door or through the front. A corporate theocratic empire here. [They could do even more damage than they have for the past 30 years.]

Pardon me for misreading you when I saw “anti-democratic/Libertarian” it looked like you put Anti-democratic” as being like and synonymous withn and joined to “Libertarian.” My mistake. Because all those three Abrahamic Religions are anti-democratic.

Tell me straight up. When you meet someone who is Muslim, are you worried at all? Would you meet one? Or do you treat them the way you meet anyone else? You are more likely to run into a Christian fanatic than a Muslim one who are the same in what they want and just need the spark to go violent.

There’s no reasoning with them—Islamist fundamentalists—because they are not reasonable. Religious fundamentalists do not arrive to their world view through reason but rather through indoctrination, inculcation and faith.

I agree, that is why we should not be alienating all the other majority who aren’t that way. Don’t you agree?

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, September 19, 2010 at 3:11 pm Link to this comment

II

Please cite where I said every Muslim was evil.
I didn’t call you names you dimwitted fool! How can you cut close to the bone with a kid’s toy rubber knife?

For such a rubber knife you find the need to fight back. You have said that using the all encompassing screed against all Muslims is okay.
Sure you did just now. You can’t help it, & you can’t apparently see it. It must be something in your back ground that must deal with recalcitrant threats like me. I am sorry for you.

The rights afforded under the U.S. Constitution apply to U.S. citizens. I’m not a lawyer so I’m at a disadvantage here, but I do believe that some of the top legal minds in the country have come to the conclusion that rendition is legal. I personally find it, rendition, reprehensible and believe that you shoot them on the battlefield and you won’t have to endure all the legal hassles.

Here’s a clue for you John Yoo is one of those complicit is calling such criminal actions as rendition legal. But in any country that distorts is legal branch to supporting criminal acts that is trouble. Most of those “rendered” have been taken off of city streets, not battle fields. Also unlike you, I see the Bill of Rights as a beacon of Human Rights, for everyone. Because if we don’t treat everyone the same way eventually that rotten thinking will hit us as well as we have seen.

What about all the liberties that all humans on the planet have been forced to surrender in response to Islamist terrorist activities? Why doesn’t that piss you off? Do you think that we’ll ever regain those lost liberties without bloodshed? Once a government takes away a right (privilege) or a liberty it’s gone until the masses seize it, by force, from its hands.

It does and it pisses me off more that the US gov’ts actions make it worse. Do everything they can to promote it, to get more to join. Stupid unless you want a dictatorship with help from paranoia and and enemy you have helped to create and feed. Such countries need enemies. Doesn’t that bother you? Seems not to.

Think of all the finances that could be going to health care and education and financial safety nets for the populations of all the different countries that have been diverted to enhance security. Why doesn’t that piss you off?

Indeed it does but not you. You’re all for continuing the GWOT and eating up the swill that passes for truth here that is given by them in gov’t. 878 military bases are fine for you in over 100 countries. The trillions spent on it are fine for you. Why do you think I want to stop it? Why do you want it to continue? Why doesn’t that piss you off?

Report this

By Sodium-Na, September 19, 2010 at 2:51 pm Link to this comment

Re: Maani,September 19 at 12:36 pm.

Maani,

An excellent link. Thank you.

Believe that the link’s article entitled,“Message to Muslims:I Apologize” by Nicholas Kristof of The New York Times expresses the feeling and views of millions of self-respecting and decent Americans who strive for harmony in this miserable and entropic world that unfortunately embraces haters and bigots as well.

A CONCLUSION AFTER READING THE LINK’S ARTICLE:
===============================================

THOSE WHO KNOW APOLOGIZE AND THOSE WHO ARE IGNORANTS DEMONIZE.

PITY THE IGNORANTS!

MUCH APPRECIATED,MAANI.

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, September 19, 2010 at 2:50 pm Link to this comment

I

Iraq was stable till we got involved on Iraq’s side for the blow back from Iran which we interfered with their democratic elections in 1953.


The fanatics were there long before coalition intervention and most of the deaths that you and your ilk try to attribute to the military are really due to internecine violence between the different religious and political factions all struggling for different causes; the main one being control of some of the largest oil reserves in the world. Wealth=Power=Wealth.

Such fighting did not occur until the USA attacked Iraq, under false pretenses (twice) first in 1990 and has had it blockaded since. It was only lifted after the second invasion and occupation. [War crimes here under the Nuremberg Laws after WW II.]

If you think that it was wrong to try and develop a countering stabilizer (Iraq) for the area and if it was wrong that 3 consecutive administrations sat on their duffs while the Pakistani created and supported Taliban invaded and occupied Afghanistan then look upon the current actions taking place as our atoning for past sins.

Pakistan and Saudi Arabia were the ones who helped those who attacked us on 9/11/01! Yet they are our allies. Can you beat that? Pakistan, a dictatorship most of its existence, use the Taliban to stabilize Afghanistan. It was only when the USA decided to blame the Taliban for Al-Quiada that things got really messy. Ah such tangled webs.

The USA is looked upon as a Christian nation because there are so many Christians running it and advertising it as one. The 3 nations are Pakistan, Iraq and Afghanistan for the historically impaired. Yemen and Southern Somalia are on their list and have been subjected to “actions” mostly black ops.

You are a hypocrite because as we both know; you’re not against intervention. What you’re against is intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan but you’re all for the U.S. doing something about what is going on in the Congo. We’ve been over this. It’s an established fact.

No I’m not for the US intervention in Congo. But it would be for a better reason than for oil and power. For saving human life, which it never is for. So it is better to have gov’t hands off. But independent people if they dare could. Still any intervention is a mess, armed or not. So you read me wrong again.

Would you be so kind as to cite where I said I wanted crusade.

You never said it directly but you support us staying everywhere so that is a yes. Withdrawl? No so you support Crusade, because they do. You agree with them for their reasons. Dominionists are real and many of them or in gov’t for awhile like Cheney.

Report this

By nemesis2010, September 19, 2010 at 1:30 pm Link to this comment

4.

By Night-Gaunt, September 18 at 7:06 pm

”I certainly know all about the Islamic, Christian and Judaic hatreds encoded in their “holy books.” You just don’t seem to understand that the same types as those you deem any Muslim is, runs this country and has for at least 30 years openly. They have killed many millions of all types of people, predominately Islamic. So is it any wonder some of them retaliate? And others use it for their own depredations to gain power in their areas? No shock, no surprise for me of whatever ilk you consider me to be.”

I have no idea what the hell you’re talking about. Do you mean Jews, Zionists, Christians, neo-cons, the Ducaz and their Nibirian creators, Dominionists, Shiites, communists, Sunnis, Hindus, who… what?

Are you certain it isn’t them retaliating against them? (How else can I put it since you use nothing but pronouns?)

By Night-Gaunt, September 18 at 7:06 pm

”Not ‘Libertarian’ but they certainly are despotic. At least to those who don’t want to follow their theocratic laws. A goof on your part, or do you actually believe that it is “Libertarian?”

Apparently you don’t understand 4 key words.

“All” denotes: Being or representing the entire or total number, amount, or quantity.

“Liberatarian” means: One who believes in freedom of action and thought.

“Anti” is defined as: Opposite, opposing; against; counteracting; neutralizing.”

“Unlike” coveys: Not alike; different.

With the definitions in mind and noting the commas, reread what I wrote:

”All religions are anti democratic/libertarian, but none more so than Islam. Islam, unlike Christianity and Judaism, has not received its long needed bitch-slapping out of the Middle Ages.”

(You should understand “out” as meaning from the Middle Ages, humbled, in a direction toward enlightenment –toward the 21st century.)

There’s no reasoning with them—Islamist fundamentalists—because they are not reasonable. Religious fundamentalists do not arrive to their world view through reason but rather through indoctrination, inculcation and faith. If there is no reason behind their position there is no way to reason them out of it. They make the choices and sow the wind but it is the civilized world that will see to it that they reap the whirlwind.

The bottom line is that Islamophobia is an invention by cowering white flaggers suffering from the very real phobia known as; ”pragmatophobia”: the fear of facing reality.

NOTE: I strongly advise that you invest the money, time, and effort in purchasing and reading Peter W. Galbraith’s “The End of Iraq: How American Incompetence Created a War Without End.”

I also recommend that you read at least the following sections in Hitchens’ “Love, Poverty, and War: Journeys and Essays”:

“The Struggle of the Kurds”
“Of Sin, the Left, and Islamic Fascism”
“Against Rationalization”
“Pakistan: On the Frontier of the Apocalypse”

”When a person is determined to believe something, the very absurdity of the doctrine confirms them in their faith.” -Junius

Report this

By nemesis2010, September 19, 2010 at 1:25 pm Link to this comment

3.

By Night-Gaunt, September 18 at 7:06 pm

” No shock but since you like to belittle me that is your prerogative, but it is a mistake.”

Informing you that you don’t get to make up the definitions of words is not belittling you. Words have meaning and if anyone can attach different meanings to the same word then all forms of communication break down. Do you think that your innuendo about Reich-wing and racist go unnoticed?

By Night-Gaunt, September 18 at 7:06 pm

” It is irrational when you couple with the kind of negativism you find in racists. Where every one regardless, is considered the same. That is what you support. What you defend and you call me a hypocrite!”

The problem is that you and your cowering ilk are labeling as racists anyone who refuses to run up the white flag of surrender and kowtow to phony Islamist sensitivities and who have legitimate concerns about the threat that Islamists pose to the civilized world. The whole of the entire earth is spending billions of dollars annually in enhanced security measures—in an attempt to curtail the danger posed by Islamist terrorism—to keep civilian populations safe. Is the whole world irrational?

How do you distinguish in a congregation of Muslims which are the Jihadists and which are not? The whole idea in clandestine warfare is to blend in and be one of the civilian population. So until he throws acid in the face of your unveiled sister, or slits your throat how the hell do you distinguish which one is evil and which is not? How do you know which one will be flipped tomorrow and become a new recruit?

Think of all the finances that could be going to health care and education and financial safety nets for the populations of all the different countries that have been diverted to enhance security. Why doesn’t that piss you off?

What about all the liberties that all humans on the planet have been forced to surrender in response to Islamist terrorist activities? Why doesn’t that piss you off? Do you think that we’ll ever regain those lost liberties without bloodshed? Once a government takes away a right (privilege) or a liberty it’s gone until the masses seize it, by force, from its hands.

You are a hypocrite because as we both know; you’re not against intervention. What you’re against is intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan but you’re all for the U.S. doing something about what is going on in the Congo. We’ve been over this. It’s an established fact.

You don’t have a problem with killing people… you simply want it done in your way and on behalf of your special little group. You’re no different than a neo-con.

I believe all wannabe martyrs should be accommodated!

Report this

By nemesis2010, September 19, 2010 at 1:23 pm Link to this comment

2.

By Night-Gaunt, September 18 at 7:06 pm

”Also you have never answered why you think every Muslim is a potential terrorist when the majority of that billion are not that way?”

Cite where I said that and I’ll address it for you.

By Night-Gaunt, September 18 at 7:06 pm

”Also who has invaded 3 predominately Muslim countries and is generally portrayed as Christian?”

If “portrayed as Christian” you mean the U.S. what can I do about people being stupid and wanting to believe the myth of the U.S. being a Christian nation? I can’t find the name Jesus in either the Declaration of Independence or the U.S. Constitution. As a matter of fact, I see purposed non-mention of the Christ of Christianity in those two documents.

So what 3 Islamic countries are you talking about and how were they invaded?

By Night-Gaunt, September 18 at 7:06 pm

”Don’t you think the terrorist actions by the USA in those countries might be a factor in all this?”

I know of no “terrorist act” by the U.S. There is one act performed by the U.S. that can be classified as a war crime under international law; Clinton’s missile launch on Khartoum to avoid his being impeached. But if memory serves, most liberals in this country applauded the act. Weren’t there a number of them on television celebrating his bump in popularity indicated by the polls?

Do you understand that due to intervention Iraqi oil—the source of its wealth—is now in the hands of the people of Iraq instead of one man and his two sons? Do you realize that it is against international law for an occupier to sell off the assets of an occupied nation? So much for all the hoopla about going in to steal the oil! 

By Night-Gaunt, September 18 at 7:06 pm

”The Crusade and this violent Jihad (not all are about war) are two sides of the same bloody coin? That the fanatics (Christian—-in the way that Al-Qiada is Muslim) here jumped at the chance after 9/11/01 used that to move their long term plans forward? Didn’t it benefit them, the Dominionists, not us? Aren’t you arguments now supporting that? You want Crusade, to you every Muslim is evil—-that is phobic if not general hatred. Though you won’t say it directly, but indirectly you do constantly. Then you call me names again. I must be cutting close to the bone to you.”

The Crusade, what crusade?

So now it’s the Dominionists who are responsible for intervention in Iraq(?)… whodda thunk it?

I thought it was the Jews, the neo-cons, the Zionists, the republicans, Cheney, or the Ducaz and that whole Nibirian planet X thingy?

Would you be so kind as to cite where I said I wanted crusade.

Please cite where I said every Muslim was evil.
I didn’t call you names you dimwitted fool! How can you cut close to the bone with a kid’s toy rubber knife?

Report this

By nemesis2010, September 19, 2010 at 1:21 pm Link to this comment

1.

By Night-Gaunt, September 18 at 7:06 pm

”Nemisis2010 I have never given any slack to anyone who murders others, whether a bomb, human bomb or cruise missile fired from 20 miles away. In each case they were used by people who believed what they were doing was work killing all those not directly involved in whatever their enemy they were fighting.”

So?

By Night-Gaunt, September 18 at 7:06 pm

”In asymmetrical warfare one side is larger more powerful like the USA and the others are various groups of varying degrees of brutality or just desperate to fight back.”

Enfin, c’est la guerre!

By Night-Gaunt, September 18 at 7:06 pm

”The USA originally funded the former in the 1980’s, then is now getting the blow back now, while the latter are being created in such places as Gitmo and Bagrahm AFB. With rendition and lack of following the Constitution here and overseas produce fanatics who before would not have thought about attacking anything American.”

You act as if the U.S. is the only nation that makes alliances on a “as needed” basis. This happens with all governments. The U.S. was trying to support what it thought would be a countering force against the Iranian threat. That the U.S. is constantly being outsmarted and played like a fiddle by players much more adept at intrigue and deception should come as no surprise. It basically all started with the administration of a B-list actor, continued with the patriarch of a family known as lackeys for super-wealthy ruling elites, was turned over to the care of a backwoods whoremonger, and passed on to the idiot son of the patriarch.

If you think that it was wrong to try and develop a countering stabilizer (Iraq) for the area and if it was wrong that 3 consecutive administrations sat on their duffs while the Pakistani created and supported Taliban invaded and occupied Afghanistan then look upon the current actions taking place as our atoning for past sins.

Blow back is a nice word—as well as a two-way street—but what many forget is that any action has both positive and negative reactions to it. There are 6.8 billions greedy little bastards called humans on this stinking planet and you’re not going to please all of them.

The fanatics were there long before coalition intervention and most of the deaths that you and your ilk try to attribute to the military are really due to internecine violence between the different religious and political factions all struggling for different causes; the main one being control of some of the largest oil reserves in the world. Wealth=Power=Wealth.

The rights afforded under the U.S. Constitution apply to U.S. citizens. I’m not a lawyer so I’m at a disadvantage here, but I do believe that some of the top legal minds in the country have come to the conclusion that rendition is legal. I personally find it, rendition, reprehensible and believe that you shoot them on the battlefield and you won’t have to endure all the legal hassles.

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, September 19, 2010 at 9:26 am Link to this comment

After giving the events of the few weeks a great deal of thought,
since what happens as an outcome of them affects my life and those
I love, even though indirectly.  They could affect it directly if violence
occurs as a result of them, in my or my loved ones’ presence.  And
such violence is a distinct possibility.  Just to make it that clear, I
also care about those who are not my loved ones or myself.

It seems to me that these eruptions in retrospect are on one hand a
very good thing, first of all because no violence has yet erupted.  But
what both events have done: the building or the mosque in New York
close to what is now called Ground Zero and the threat of burning
Qur’ans by some fervent religionist in Florida as what he has said was a
reaction to the building of the mosque is to bring to poignant attention
deep and abiding entire world affecting problems that exist between
two cultures.

My reason for thinking these events were two expressions of one side
of an equation.  Putting an equal sign to create an equation is what I
hope to provide.  They, together, equal a rise in consciousness not only
of Americans but the entire world, a world that was watching intently
the dramatic outcomes of the theatrical conflict.  And learning more
about what Islam is and what fanatical religionists can do to bring an
entire country as large as the US to its proverbial knees, with the help
of the depravity of the news media. 

But even more importantly than that, for Americans, is to learn better
what the First Amendment to the US Constitution means.  I think an
excellent reminder in what rights mean since both factors of the
equation challenged the rights expressed in that Amendment, at least
put to a broadband challenge in the media, not in the courts, at least
not yet.  It also gives people everywhere what exactly it means to have a
law that guarantees freedom of speech and freedom of religion. 

I am atheist and have no attachment to either side, but I do have an
attachment to the value of human life and the quality of that life.  And I
firmly believe each individual has the right to believe as they choose
and would fight to protect the rights of religionists to express their
beliefs, which in my mind speaks to the utter value of our
Constitutional form of government even if it had to be amended 27
times to get it right.  And who knows, America might in the future find
it necessary to amend it again.  I do not believe these are natural rights
but are rights we as humans have given ourselves to create and
maintain an existence above that of the savage.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, September 19, 2010 at 6:15 am Link to this comment

AS:

I have heard excuses from EVERY religion why it’s OK to treat women as nothing more than breeding machines and house-keepers.

In my own religion the extremists claim they “honor” women because they are responsible for the keeping of a “Jewish Household” and teaching the rudiments of the religion.  But, yet, they were kept from education and becoming scholars to the extent that a woman who could READ was considered an abomination! The movie “Yentl”, while romanticized, gives an accurate portrayal of what Jewish women faced in the 1800’s in Eastern Europe.

So when I see the Taliban BEATING women for going to school in Afghanistan, it raises my bile. Because it’s the same damn thing my own grandmother faced back in Ukraine, and escaped (a rare open-minded father)!  It’s not Islam or Judaism—it’s men using religion to control women.

Motherhood is an honorable enterprise, but, to me, it’s only one part of what a woman can be.  My wife is a wonderful mother to our boys, but she’s also a brilliant professional, well-recognized in her field.  My mother and my mother-in-law both worked as professionals in their fields, garnering well-earned respect for their expertise, yet both were mothers whose kids grew up to be successful AND devoted to them, too.

So, to me, the idea of a wife sitting home taking care of the house and kids and doing nothing else, is not what I’m familiar with or used to.  Therefore, to me, a woman with a profession is the norm, not the exception.

Report this
Arabian Sinbad's avatar

By Arabian Sinbad, September 19, 2010 at 3:43 am Link to this comment

By Inherit The Wind, September 18 at 11:49 pm

“Women are treated like dirt or worse by certain parts of the population the world over.  Pimps buy and sell women, and children in America, Canada, Mexico, Russia and Indonesia—and everywhere else—like they were beef cattle, only they are sex cattle.  They may be Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists,Animists, whatever. Ironically dubbed “White Slavery” it is the basest form of slavery.”
===========================
Well said ITW, and thank you for this enlightening and educated post!

I may add that the problem of mistreating women is not a religious problem, but rather a sexist one practiced across all cultures and religions. When it is done within or in the name of a particular religious tradition, then it is more likely done in violation of that religion.

In the case of Islam, for example, the Prophet of Islam, addressing his male companions, said: “The best among you in the Sight of God are those who are the best to their spouses.” And in another statement about women in relation to men he said: “Be kind and gentle to women for they are the mothers, the sisters, the aunts and nieces of men like you.”

And in honoring the status of the mother figure in the value system of Islam he said: “Paradise lies under the feet of your mothers;” a statement made as a metaphor for the high rewards awaiting those who honor their mothers and treat them well. And aren’t most women the future mothers of the children in every religion, nationality or human community?!

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, September 18, 2010 at 7:49 pm Link to this comment

Sodium-Na, September 18 at 9:33 pm Link to this comment

For ITW:

ITW,

Please ignore the tale after tale you are bombarded with about Muslims and Muslim women. Please do not dignify them by a response.

Rubbish!!
*****************

Women are treated like dirt or worse by certain parts of the population the world over.  Pimps buy and sell women, and children in America, Canada, Mexico, Russia and Indonesia—and everywhere else—like they were beef cattle, only they are sex cattle.  They may be Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Animists, whatever.  Ironically dubbed “White Slavery” it is the basest form of slavery.

EXTREME religious groups in the mainstream religions all treat women like shit. If there ever was a an argument against fervent devout religion it’s that they ALWAYS find a way to treat women as property that can be abused to the pervert’s heart’s content.

Every Muslim I’ve known has had a good relationship with their spouse—and has been monogamous.

But to attempt to besmirch an entire religion because of the actions in some of the WORST places in the world is absurd.  The fact that in eastern Turkey women can be treated badly is no different than that in Utah there are polygamous cults that do the same thing.

In fact, many Islamic scholars insist that what we are hearing about atrocities are actually VIOLATIONS of the teachings of The Prophet.  Why is that no surprise?  After all, where did Jesus say it’s OK to beat your wife, put her down, and treat her like shit?  Yet how often have Christian leaders told women their duty was to shut up and take it, and OBEY THEIR HUSBAND?

Simply put, it’s just more of GRYM’s attempts to obfuscate and defend outlandish misrepresentations of fact.

Report this

By Sodium-Na, September 18, 2010 at 5:33 pm Link to this comment

For ITW:

ITW,

Please ignore the tale after tale you are bombarded with about Muslims and Muslim women. Please do not dignify them by a response.

Rubbish!!

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, September 18, 2010 at 3:06 pm Link to this comment

Nemisis2010 I have never given any slack to anyone who murders others, whether a bomb, human bomb or cruise missile fired from 20 miles away. In each case they were used by people who believed what they were doing was work killing all those not directly involved in whatever their enemy they were fighting.

In asymmetrical warfare one side is larger more powerful like the USA and the others are various groups of varying degrees of brutality or just desperate to fight back. The USA originally funded the former in the 1980’s, then is now getting the blow back now, while the latter are being created in such places as Gitmo and Bagrahm AFB. With rendition and lack of following the Constitution here and overseas produce fanatics who before would not have thought about attacking anything American.

Also you have never answered why you think every Muslim is a potential terrorist when the majority of that billion are not that way? Also who has invaded 3 predominately Muslim countries and is generally portrayed as Christian? Don’t you think the terrorist actions by the USA in those countries might be a factor in all this? The Crusade and this violent Jihad (not all are about war) are two sides of the same bloody coin? That the fanatics (Christian—-in the way that Al-Qiada is Muslim) here jumped at the chance after 9/11/01 used that to move their long term plans forward? Didn’t it benefit them, the Dominionists, not us? Aren’t you arguments now supporting that? You want Crusade, to you every Muslim is evil—-that is phobic if not general hatred. Though you won’t say it directly, but indirectly you do constantly. Then you call me names again. I must be cutting close to the bone to you.

This will, undoubtedly, come as a shock to you NG, but you don’t get to define what a phobia is: it is a persistent, abnormal or irrational fear of a specific thing or situation.

No shock but since you like to belittle me that is your prerogative, but it is a mistake. It is irrational when you couple with the kind of negativism you find in racists. Where every one regardless, is considered the same. That is what you support. What you defend and you call me a hypocrite! Just amazing the cognitive disconnect. I certainly know all about the Islamic, Christian and Judaic hatreds encoded in their “holy books.” You just don’t seem to understand that the same types as those you deem any Muslim is, runs this country and has for at least 30 years openly. They have killed many millions of all types of people, predominately Islamic. So is it any wonder some of them retaliate? And others use it for their own depredations to gain power in their areas? No shock, no surprise for me of whatever ilk you consider me to be.

All religions are anti democratic/libertarian, but none more so than Islam. Islam, unlike Christianity and Judaism, has not received its long needed bitch-slapping out of the Middle Ages.

Not “Libertarian” but they certainly are despotic. At least to those who don’t want to follow their theocratic laws. A goof on your part, or do you actually believe that it is “Libertarian?”

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, September 18, 2010 at 12:57 pm Link to this comment

With fear and trepidation of receiving a verbal execution, or
possibly more by the TD Islamist trawlers, who always have a net
out to bag anyone for any degree of criticism, I will step into the
River Styx and express my disagreement that Islam is stuck in the
Middle Ages.  It seems a great many could be taken back to tribal
cave dwelling and nomadic times who react with a tribal mentality
as opposed to a humanistic mentality, meaning they tend to be
fiercely loyal to their own group, to be nationalist and conservative
and in the case of extremist tribalists dehumanise and demonise all
other groups. They tend to focus on the conflicts of interest that can
exist between various groups and suffer from what behavioural
psychologists call the outgroup homogeneity bias and inclined to see
members of their own group as being relatively more varied than
members of other groups. 

Those with a Tribal Mentality regard those with a Humanist Mentality
as treacherous, cowardly and naïve. On the other hand, people with a
Humanist Mentality regard those with a Tribal Mentality as bigoted,
narrow-minded and irrational.  The anger found among Tribalists is
most often not focused on other tribes, but on who they call the
Liberal Humanistic elite, who they see are dangerous and shrewd. 
The relative descriptions can easily be switched in terms of each
group’s observations.

I am not saying that all Muslims have a Tribal Mentality, mind you, as I
know many 21st century humanistic folks, educated and contributing
positively to modern community activities. But from all cinematic
accounts and videos, Tribalism seems to define a great number.  I
suppose the caliphates could be compared to medieval baronial
structures.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, September 18, 2010 at 12:31 pm Link to this comment

Bigot:
One who challenges the warped, twisted deliberate fabrications of one GRYM.

YOU need to watch the video of long-time reactionary Senator Alfonse D’Amato telling a typical teabagger “analyst” on Fox that he (D’Amato) had listened to the guy’s “racist bullshit” long enough!

“If you don’t stand for something you’ll stand for anything!”  A rare “BRAVO!” to Senator “Pothole”.

Report this

By nemesis2010, September 18, 2010 at 12:08 pm Link to this comment

By Night-Gaunt, September 18 at 12:23 am

”Where every believer in allah is an automatic jihadist or will become one at a drop of a hat is expected to be by such people. That is islamiphobia,”

This will, undoubtedly, come as a shock to you NG, but you don’t get to define what a phobia is: it is a persistent, abnormal or irrational fear of a specific thing or situation.

There is absolutely NOTHING irrational or abnormal about feelings or agitations that the civilized world feels about the very real threat that Muslim jihadists—Islamists—present to civilized societies. We’ve been suffering the consequences of their insane activities since at least the early 1970s. Have you and your ilk so soon forgotten all the high-jacked airliners, Munich, and Navy diver Robert Stethem? I haven’t!

TSA and DHS are not illusions. They’re the direct result of Islamists’ actions. And those actions cost us dearly in liberty as well as finance. Before Islamists started high-jacking civilian airliners, passengers could just walk up to a counter, present a ticket, and board the aircraft. Not any more! Every action by Islamists has had some type of direct countermeasure that, without fail, has curtailed our liberty and freedom and cost us financially. That’s not a phobia! That’s a correct evaluation of a situation perpetrated on civilized societies by radical Islamists whose methodology is always being refined and perfected to maximize its effect—especially psychological—on civilian populations and governments. IF there is such a thing as Islamophobia it’s the Islamists that are responsible for it! Stop blaming the rape victim for being raped!

The problem you and your ilk have is how to determine which Muslim is a radical jihadist and which is not. That’s the problem that civilized societies face when dealing with terrorists. Terrorism is clandestine warfare conducted principally against civilian populations in order to instill fear! It is not—usually—the function of a State. There are no soldiers in bright blue uniforms with big plumes of feathers sticking out their hats to indicate that they serve in Her Majesty’s or Allah’s armed forces. The failure to make these distinctions can cost you your life.

The failure to properly deal with Islamist terrorist activity for more than 30 years has cost the lives of many innocent human beings and the lost of many liberties in Western society. And if they choose to have us make a choice between them or us then I choose us because, unlike you and your ilk, I’ve no doubt that our way of thinking provides a much better chance for a peaceful and free society than does theirs!

All religions are anti democratic/libertarian, but none more so than Islam. Islam, unlike Christianity and Judaism, has not received its long needed bitch-slapping out of the Middle Ages.

People like you and the writer of this dumbass article suffer ”pragmatophobia”: the fear of facing reality. And it—unlike your invented Islamophobia—is a true phobia. (see “Symbolomania and Pragmatophobia” by polish philosopher Zygmund Zawirski—Many thanks to Answers.com for that little tidbit.)

NOTE: As for your concern over homophobia; you might want to research how Islamists treat homosexuals.

Not only are you wrong but you’re an America-loathing, cowering hypocrite too.

In the words of Hitchens: ”It is civilization and pluralism and secularism that need pitiless and unapologetic fighters”

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, September 18, 2010 at 7:46 am Link to this comment

First:  ITW.  You’re a bigot.  You truly need to learn to authentically listen.

-

Second: Uncovering the truth is always a convoluted affair when it comes to the Middle East. Consider the case of the Egyptian Nagla Iman. Is she a Muslim woman who advocates the sexual harassment of Jewish women, or a Christian woman, who advocates human rights — especially for fellow women of all faiths?

The story begins last June 24, when a friend was a guest on I Was a Prisoner, which airs weekly on the Arabic satellite station Tarek TV (“Way TV”). Named after its host, Nabil Bissada, who was imprisoned and tortured in Egypt for facilitating the way for Muslims to convert to Christianity, I Was a Prisoner explores the lack of human rights in Muslim countries.

On 7 July 2010, Nabil contacted an associate of mine by phone on the Nagla case. According to him, here are where things stand:

He called and asked Nagla about the sexual harassment remark; she became livid and frustrated, saying she never said such a thing, and that that video was intentionally doctored by her Islamist opponents who run the Saudi-sponsored station Al Arabiya to slander her name. (Nabil added that, due to her human rights work — years back, she tried to pass a law banning polygamy in Egypt to the point that Al Azhar proclaimed her an infidel — Islamists have been trying to undermine her for years.)

As for her personal situation, approximately two weeks ago, state security arrested and took Nagla to a government building in Cairo. There, a top official twisted the crucifix she was wearing, tightening the chain around her neck, while saying “the cross will be the death of you.” The official then proceeded to beat her — giving her a black eye, a bruised body, and broken teeth. Before releasing her, he said, “Stay in your house, till you are carried out to your grave,” adding that, if she does not return to Islam, “people” will be dispatched to “take care of her.”

Nabil concluded by saying that Nagla and her two young children are trapped indoors — their entire Muslim family having turned their backs on them — and besieged by the mob, which bangs on the doors and windows and has cut off (no doubt, thanks to the government) all electricity to the house, leaving Nagla and her children in the dark (see here for a video where a battered Nagla sings a psalm with her children).

Finally, a top Muslim cleric, Salim Abdul Galil, appeared on an Al Azhar affiliated station proclaiming Nagla an “infidel,” adding she must either return to Islam or spend the remainder of her life indoors.

It should be observed that such a verdict accords perfectly not only with Islamic law in general, which is Egypt’s “primal source of legislation,” but the Hanafi school in particular, which is dominant in Egypt: rather than kill apostate women outright, the “lenient” Hanafis recommend that women be beaten (the government official took care of that) and then imprisoned in their homes (the Muslim cleric has seen to that) until they see the “error of their ways” and return to Islam.

Postscript: Last we heard, Nagla and her children have completely disappeared, bringing back the government official’s threat to mind — that “people” could be sent to “take care of her.” To learn more about the Nagla Imam story, contact Way TV: (661) 233-8787.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, September 17, 2010 at 9:01 pm Link to this comment

Racism and bigotry are now the norm of the far right, and what was once the province of David Duke, the KKK and the Aryan Brotherhood is now voiced as “legitimate” analysis on Fox News.
Tonight, over at HuffPo, they have an AMAZING video of a new neo-Nazi named Joe Burkman making vitriolic racist remarks about Post Office workers referring to them as Nigerians and Ethiopians and qualified to do nothing more than drive cabs.  That such KKK and Nazi Party “code” phrases for Blacks could air as “legitimate” even on Fox makes me want to vomit.

But even more amazing was that Senator Pothole himself, Alfonse D’Amato called Burkman to task on it three times saying it was “Bullshit” or “racist bullshit”!  Al’s rage shocked me, and pleased and saddened me.  Pleased that he knows the Teaparty is truly a racist abomination, and saddened that we are at the last line of defense against racist fascism when it’s hard right-wingers like D’Amato we have to rely on to call them out.

I never thought I would EVER say this: Bravo, Al! That was a courageous and noble stance you took.

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, September 17, 2010 at 8:23 pm Link to this comment

It is those who can’t handle anyone Islamic and may not agree with the actions of the USA that are attacked as “jihadists” etc. (The same ones the jihadies would attack in kind too.) Where every believer in allah is an automatic jihadist or will become one at a drop of a hat is expected to be by such people. That is islamiphobia, where no one Muslim can rest easy around one. They are always considered the enemy or a potential one no matter what. That is the psychological mind set they have and you claim is “bullshit.”

So you are fine with erring on the side of insult and calumny to any Muslim in case a few scattered somewhere on the earth are the real killers and violators of Islam in particular & humanity in general? That is your stance? That is what I see by your writings just now. You sound like a Reich winger, that is how they talk and reason on such issues. Maybe just a coincidence is all, a brief intersection of ideas perhaps? Humans are complex, they contain multitudes.

Next you will be saying that homophobia is “bullshit” too? Am I wrong Nemisis2010?

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, September 17, 2010 at 6:43 pm Link to this comment

JD:

You put it better than I could.  Every word you wrote rings true.  GRYM is as full of hate for anything left of the far right as the “Die Hard” Wannabe, but hides it in honeyed tones and deceptive words. He’d make a GREAT shyster lawyer.

Report this
JDmysticDJ's avatar

By JDmysticDJ, September 17, 2010 at 2:51 pm Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind

Incontrovertible [??nk?ntr??v??t?b?l ?n?k?n-]
adj
incapable of being contradicted or disputed; undeniable

(Incontrovertibly adv)


What Rico Suave said is “Incontrovertibly,” incontrovertible, but GRYMie, as he has done here on truthdig over and over again, claims the incontrovertible is controvertible, and that incontrovertible proof is controvertible. GRYMie, illogically and irrationally, asserts that those who are logical are illogical, and that those who are rational are irrational. He’s like the self–proclaimed expert who has no expertise and haughtily and contemptuously cites his (Lack of) expertise as evidence that he is an incontrovertible expert. When the truth smacks him upside the head, he accuses the truth of being a falsehood, because the truth contradicts his falsehoods. He’s like the person marching out of step, who obstinately and vehemently claims that everyone else is marching out of step. He will lie and fabricate in order to defend his falsehoods; in the hope that he’ll be able to convince that his falsehoods are truth. He feigns laughter and contempt, in an effort to hide the fact he is laughable and contemptible. He cites evidence out of context to the greater issue at hand, in the hope that that evidence will obfuscate the issue at hand. He’ll say,” no, no, no, I didn’t say that, but here’s proof that what I said is true.”

I could go on and on, but I’m sure you get my drift.

Report this

By nemesis2010, September 17, 2010 at 11:06 am Link to this comment

By drbhelthi, September 15 at 4:35 pm

”Israeli MOSSAD, dressed as Arab-types, blew the hole in the USS Cole. Which neutral authority has verified that imposters, pretending to be islamists, did not blow up the KFC and McDonald´s?  Have you verified that the MOSSAD or CIA did not do it, blaming Moslem-types, who were paid to be scapegoats in the Twin-Tower debacle, by the Bush family?”

Actually you’ve got it all wrong. It was a rebellious group of fundamentalists Ducaz (reptilian shape-shifters from the planet Nibiru) who shape-shifted into ultraorthodox Jews dressed as MOSSAD agents masqueraded as Muslims who blew a hole in the U.S.S. Cole.

I have verified the facts about the twin towers with a neutral authority… my dog Sparky. Sparky isn’t a real dog. He’s a secret agent for an ultra, super-duper, top secret intergalactic alien spy agency, ???????. I know that the agency exists because I can hear the conversations between Sparky and his superiors whenever I’m not wearing my tin foil hat. I even have an interceptor/decoder ring that translates the secret communications into English.

They’re coming and we’re all going to die December 21, 2012! It’s over! It’s over, I’m telling you! It’s too late to do anything about it! Put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye because your soul belongs to god!

Report this

By nemesis2010, September 17, 2010 at 11:05 am Link to this comment

By Night-Gaunt, September 15 at 4:53 pm

”nemesis2010 I don’t see anyone cheering the slaughter. Unlike the Right cheering our boys in their country killing them and others too. We should leave. Our PBA’s have caused enough problems for the world. We don’t ;need to compound it.No one supports the killing of innocents, here anyway. Just because you don’t hear about it doesn’t make it not happen.”

No one made any claims about supporting any killing or slaughter.

The issue is the so-called American left—made up of a bunch of hypocrites and cowering fools who cannot raise the white flag of surrender fast enough whenever Islamists cry foul—and its invention of a term that is used to label others so that their cowardice and fear of “offending Islamists sensitivities” won’t be seen as that which it is. The “Left’s” willingness to surrender the very ideals that made the West the most advanced human society to have ever lived in order not to offend groups of different religious adherents is seen by many as cowardly and even treasonous.

The term is as much bullshit as all that phony Islamist “sensitivity.”

Islamophobia is bullshit!

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, September 17, 2010 at 10:04 am Link to this comment

GRYM:

You are losing it. Whenever you write a comment on this thread Rico’s post is right in your field of view, where he claims it’s an incontrovertible fact that Islam promotes violence.

No matter how many times you insult me and lie about me you cannot change what Rico posted and is there for all to see. There’s nothing else to learn or listen to.  Remember the scene in 1984 where the torturer’s goal is to convince the victim that he ACTUALLY SEES what isn’t there?  That’s you, trying to convince me that what I should see is something that’s not actually there.  And then you get abusive because I don’t buy that bullshit.

As the old saying goes, you are entitled to your own opinion but you are NOT entitled to your own facts.

Anyone else agree with GRYM that it doesn’t say that????  Anyone?  (crickets chirping)

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, September 17, 2010 at 7:14 am Link to this comment

ITW, - “Not listening? Once again, GRYM, you are deliberately falsifying evidence. Deliberately.”

-

1. One day you may authentically listen.  One day you may come to understand that genuine differences of opinion or context are not, in any way, a falsity.  One day you may learn that your need to degrade and demonize genuine opposing points of view prevents you from truly hearing others.

2. Rico did not opine that all Muslims are to be feared or thought dangerous.  You imagined it.  Rico believes the same of the Qur’an as does Osama bin Laden.  And you have never seen nor heard bin Laden claim that all Muslims are dangerous.

3. Learn to listen past your nose.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, September 17, 2010 at 4:26 am Link to this comment

Not listening? Once again, GRYM, you are deliberately falsifying evidence. Deliberately.

Who gives a hoot about the 1/3 part?

What you BLATANTLY ignored was what I posted in bold—the assertion Rico made that all Muslims and the Muslim religion actively encourages violence..“IN THE FACT OF THE INCONTROVERTIBLE EVIDENCE THAT IT DOES.” (Rico’s words)

Rico says that only 1/3 of Americans believe that Islam encourages violence, but he ALSO says 100% of Americans SHOULD believe it encourages violence. Read the upper case line above again.

You are now deliberately lying about what I posted, yet again.

To quote your frequent assertion of others: You have no honor.  You keep trying to convince people that everything they see is false unless they get it from the propaganda meisters of Fox Noise.

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, September 16, 2010 at 4:45 pm Link to this comment

ITW,

” Only a third believe that Islam encourages violence, in the face of the incontrovertible fact that it clearly does.”

-

First.  That only a third of Americans believe that Islam encourages violence is a terrific testament of overwhelming American tolerance after the preceding decade.  Not Islamophobia.

Rico’s statement of his belief is held by literally billions of people about the globe.  Not unlike how billions feel about Tora and the Christian Bible.  You dare to label all who disagree with you on this as racist.  You fail to see that not everyone, most in fact, are not like you.

Rico happens to agree with Hassan Nasrallah, Dr. Zawahiri, bin Laden and billions of others who believe just as he does.  In fact more than half the Iranian people I lived amongst for over seven years believed that violence was acceptable when sanctioned by Mohammad.  Even encouraged in service to Allah and the spreading of Islam - All supported in, they believe, the Quran and the Injil. - And I love the Iranian people.  They make up the most hospitable culture I have ever had the pleasure of living amongst.  But as we have learned it only takes 19 of like mind to shut down a nation for a day.  Murder thousands, very specifically, in the name of Allah.  Whether they come from the Philippines, Sudan, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt or the United States.  There IS a current global danger from, maybe, 1% of 1% of a billion Muslims who are twisting and stretching Islam.

I personally know of no one who claims all Muslims should be considered dangerous.  And Rico certainly didn’t come close to such a claim.  You only imagined him believing such idiocy.

You are simply not listening and hearing.

-

It does not matter so much that you happen not to believe it.  However, Dr, Zawahiri does.  You will find reams of public releases and fatwas to study concerning his agreement with Rico on precisely this subject.  Hassan Nasrallah too has found dozens of justifications for deceit and murder in the name of Islam and Allah.  Yes they each encourage violence and killing as justified, they believe, by Islam.

Of course these men would not refer to Sept. 11, the African bombings, the U.S.S. Cole, the 1993 Trade Center attack, the London and Spain bombings, Grozny, operation Bojenka, the Lincoln tunnel plot, the panty bomber, Maj. Hassan or the Times Square bomber as murder.

If Rico is correct then only a third of Americans believe that Islam itself is dangerous.  That is not “American Islamophobia”.  Not when an overwhelming majority will disagree.  Jews are attacked and assaulted in the United States more than Muslims are.  No one believes those attacking Jews are Tea Party supporters.

-

You are not listening.  You have not read the Quran yourself.  You seem to be busying yourself with the mutterings of Sarah Palin and Michelle Malkin.

Michele Malkin, ITW?  I would be extremely impressed if you one time quoted Dr. Zawahiri on this very subject.

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, September 16, 2010 at 4:44 pm Link to this comment

ITW,

” Only a third believe that Islam encourages violence, in the face of the incontrovertible fact that it clearly does.”

-

First.  That only a third of Americans believe that Islam encourages violence is a terrific testament of overwhelming American tolerance after the preceding decade.  Not Islamophobia.

Rico’s statement of his belief is held by literally billions of people about the globe.  Not unlike how billions feel about Tora and the Christian Bible.  You dare to label all who disagree with you on this as racist.  You fail to see that not everyone, most in fact, are not like you.

Rico happens to agree with Hassan Nasrallah, Dr. Zawahiri, bin Laden and billions of others who believe just as he does.  In fact more than half the Iranian people I lived amongst for over seven years believed that violence was acceptable when sanctioned by Mohammad.  Even encouraged in service to Allah and the spreading of Islam - All supported in, they believe, the Quran and the Injil. - And I love the Iranian people.  They make up the most hospitable culture I have ever had the pleasure of living amongst.  But as we have learned it only takes 19 of like mind to shut down a nation for a day.  Murder thousands, very specifically, in the name of Allah.  Whether they come from the Philippines, Sudan, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt or the United States.  There IS a current global danger from, maybe, 1% of 1% of a billion Muslims who are twisting and stretching Islam.

I personally know of no one who claims all Muslims should be considered dangerous.  And Rico certainly didn’t come close to such a claim.  You only imagined him believing such idiocy.

You are simply not listening and hearing.

-

It does not matter so much that you happen not to believe it.  However, Dr, Zawahiri does.  You will find reams of public releases and fatwas to study concerning his agreement with Rico on precisely this subject.  Hassan Nasrallah too has found dozens of justifications for deceit and murder in the name of Islam and Allah.  Yes they each encourage violence and killing as justified, they believe, by Islam.

Of course these men would not refer to Sept. 11, the African bombings, the U.S.S. Cole, the 1993 Trade Center attack, the London and Spain bombings, Grozny, operation Bojenka, the Lincoln tunnel plot, the panty bomber, Maj. Hassan or the Times Square bomber as murder.

If Rico is correct then only a third of Americans believe that Islam itself is dangerous.  That is not “American Islamophobia”.  Not when an overwhelming majority will disagree.  Jews are attacked and assaulted in the United States much more than Muslims.  No one believes those attacking Jews are Tea Party supporters, Moderates, Ne-Cons and Libertarians.

-

You are not listening.  You seem to be busying yourself with the mutterings of Sarah Palin and Michelle Malkin.

Michele Malkin, ITW?  I would be extremely impressed if you one time quoted Dr. Zawahiri on this very subject.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, September 16, 2010 at 2:32 pm Link to this comment

GRYM:

This is what Rico wrote. It’s in the VERY FIRST post of this thread.

” Only a third believe that Islam encourages violence, in the face of the incontrovertible fact that it clearly does.

This is a bigoted statement because it is clearly unsupported, unsupportable and frankly ridiculous. It is blatant, though you’ll try to pretzel it to show that it means Rico really loves and respects Islam and hasn’t a bigoted bone in his body.

Oh. I forgot. You’ve redefined “bigot” to mean anyone who doesn’t buy your BS.

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, September 16, 2010 at 1:55 pm Link to this comment

Well it doesn’t take much imagination to see that you have your mind
on ladies’ panties.  Disgust is a different emotion than anger.  You
write like you need to get some learning about psychological states.
and maybe you ought to try bunching up your panties!

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, September 16, 2010 at 1:17 pm Link to this comment

ITW,

You desperately need lessons in listening.  The second you begin to believe someone does not agree you stop listening and begin imagining.  And, wow, can you ever imagine things.

Can you display here exactly where or how Rico claims “ALL MUSLIMS” are dangerous?  The answer is a clear No.  He wrote nothing of the kind.  You simply imagined he has.  It’s incredible.

-

I simply cannot believe anyone would get their panties in a bunch over Michelle Malkin and Sarah Palin.  It’s just so odd how quick to anger these two woman drive you.  Truly odd.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, September 16, 2010 at 11:14 am Link to this comment

GRYM:
I don’t need a lesson in listening or reading from you of all people, the master of the rhetorical pretzel that turns up into down, black into white, and bigots into humanitarians.

Malkin is a bigot and a fear mongerer whose “facts” are the same BS that Faux Noise airs repeatedly as “true”.

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, September 16, 2010 at 7:35 am Link to this comment

Michelle Malkin is part of the fanatical Republican
gangbanger/dopplegangers along with clones Hannity, Limbaugh,
Beck, et al.  One needs only to read her drivel and dross.  google
Michelle Malkin and you will get 871,000 results.

Report this

By Sodium-Na, September 16, 2010 at 7:27 am Link to this comment

For Arabian Sinbad:

Sinbad,

Please check the thread of “Preacher Cancels Quran Burning Over ‘Ground Zero Mosque’ Claim”,in the “Ear to the Ground” of Truthdig.

It seems that I have addressed a post to you when that thread was almost abandonded by most posters including you.

Please check it out. Thank you.

Report this
JDmysticDJ's avatar

By JDmysticDJ, September 16, 2010 at 7:18 am Link to this comment

Call Me Roy

You post an article by Michelle Malkin here? She goes to great lengths to foment the intolerance and aggravate the tensions. She enumerates certain atrocities while ignoring the greatest atrocities. Many see the virtue in religious tolerance and seek to advance religious tolerance. Michelle Malkin very specifically advocates no tolerance. She seems to be advocating for a Holy war?

When our Military leaders warn that burning the Qur’an(Koran) will be counter productive to our military mission, lead to lost American lives, a be a means of recruitment for Muslim extremists, she pooh-poohs that warning and snidely comments about tensions in the Arab world; ignoring the very real fact that those tensions are, to a great extent, a result of Western intrusions in the Arab world. 

Michelle Malkin is a Fox News commentator in the mold of Ann Coulter, and a frequent guest on Fox News. She is a far-right blogger, and a pundit/journalist with questionable credentials. I’m wondering if I should post an article from a left-wing blogger, in its entirety, as a way of rebuttal.
.
Malkin’s article is full of false accusations, distortions, exaggerations, and wrong headed vitriol. Michelle Malkin reminds me of the mindset of some during the “Westward Expansion” who asserted that, ‘The only good Indian is a dead Indian.”

Fortunately Maani has done the work necessary to rebut Malkin’s inaccuracies and false statements, but I can’t resist commenting that I find Michelle Malkin to be a prissy little, shallow, mean spirited, ignorant, and vile human being. In this dangerous, factionalized reality that we now find ourselves, beset with extremism and hatred, it’s shameful that a person such as Michelle Malkin is given any credibility at all.

By nemesis2010, September 15 at 3:51 pm Link to this comment

“…The point is the American left inventing a term to label anyone who dares speak the truth about the adherents of Islam and their acts of terror on the civilized world in order to divert attention from their hypocrisy and running up of the white flag of surrender while cowered in submission…”

Given the nature of your previous posts here on truthdig, it’s difficult to refrain from attacking the messenger, but the message you purvey is so demented that pointing out your perverse homo-erotic neurosis is not necessary.

There are over 2 million Muslims in the U.S. and over a Billion worldwide, but you condemn them all because of the actions of a very small minority of extremists. You have made your negative opinions of religion evident, so why are you allying yourself with Christian extremists who seek a holy war? The question is rhetorical, and the answer is obvious, you are every bit as demented as they are.

Have a nice day!

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, September 16, 2010 at 7:16 am Link to this comment

ITW,

1. Michelle Malkin?  Are you kidding me?  You have yourself in a tizzy over things Michelle Malkin talks about?

THAT is truly odd.

-

2. If you’re reading Michelle Malkin like you do Sarah Palin, or anything Rico has written on this subject, you have taken every word from Malkin and changed them beyond all recognition.

-

You are in desperate need of lessons in real, authentic, listening.  Dropping your hate of others would be a good start

Report this

By Sodium-Na, September 16, 2010 at 5:30 am Link to this comment

Re: Inherit The Wind,September 16 at 8:24 am.

Quote
======

While your arguments are sound,you are like the fellow trying to teach a pig to sing opera.

Unquote
========

Hilarious and meaningful comment,with due respect to Maani’s noble but wasted efforts.

Thanks,ITW,for the spontaneous chuckle!

Report this

By esi42, September 16, 2010 at 4:42 am Link to this comment

Thanks Maani
Thanks JD

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, September 16, 2010 at 4:24 am Link to this comment

Maani:
You and I disagree on much, and here I disagree again but for different reason.  You are wasting your time and efforts on the “Die Hard” Wannabe (John McClain, the shoot-em-up cop in the “Die Hard” movies says “Call me Roy” after Roy Rogers). While your arguments are sound, you are like the fellow trying to teach a pig to sing opera.

GRYM: Stop with your nonsense. I read Michelle Malkin’s article and it’s a pack of lies. “Die Hard” Wannabe is actively advocating that EVERY Muslim supports violent Jihad.  So does Rico.  You are the one who isn’t listening and, as usual, an apologist for those promoting falsehoods, bigotry and fear.

Report this

By bogi666, September 16, 2010 at 2:10 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The right wing nut cases are out today, aided and abetted by the Zionist extremist of all stripes.They have td in their sites since it’s obviously orchestrated. They use mindlessness drivel which is what they do, use mindlessness which is what their philosophy is meant to do appeal to and create mindlessness followers unable to discern thoughts, especially the thought of others,from truth or facts which is evident with the mindlessness drivel they post here on td. I don’t read it myself and perhaps reporting their hate spewed comment en mass would get them eliminated. They do so.

Report this
drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, September 16, 2010 at 12:41 am Link to this comment

All the pro/con jibber-jabber about rightists,
leftists, liberalists, with “islam” mixed in, is
very evidential, yet only political distraction. 
The plan of the NAZIs, carried out by the family
GHWBushSr in the lead of the CIA/MOSSAD, supported
by assorted bribed and employed pimpery, such as
Blackwater, worked, and continues to be effective. 

Those of the Moslem belief might be more accurately
incensed that their religious belief was and
continues to be the “fall guy” or scapegoat for the
NAZI/CIA/MOSSAD inside-job-destruction of the TWin
Towers and the 3rd building.

It is time to turn and focus islamic efforts on the
perpetrators of the farce.  The GHWBushSr family and
entourage, deserve the hostility, not the dumbed-
down “right, liberal, left, whatever” political-
front persons.

Certainly, Sadaam Hussein was a dictator.  Has
anything improved, now that women and children are
raped and the land pillaged by foreign mercenaries
who have murdered over 200,000 citizens and
transferred control of oil reserves to foreign
countries?

Is the situation any better in Afghanistan and
Pakistan?  Rightests, leftests, liberalists, and
alleged Christians did not make the decision to
attack Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and other local
areas.  The Junior Bush administration, on orders
from GHWBUSHSr are guilty, and deserve international
legal action.  The hate of “Islam” is not enough to
do the needed job.

Report this

By Sodium-Na, September 15, 2010 at 11:36 pm Link to this comment

Re: JDmysticDJ,September 15 at 2:52 pm.

JDmysticDJ,

It is an outstanding post. It reads like a well refined piece of prose worth repeating,not only for one single bigot but for all bigots who have lately infested the threads of Truthdig’s website. I could easily detect that they were/are extremist Right-Wingers,cloaked themselves with liberal clothings in order to make their poisons coated with candy like taste for the unaware progressives/liberals what really was/is going on.

In order to express my appreciation of the wonderful piece of prose whose Re is quoted above,I will repeat it while breaking its components to 12 pieces of fine literature I may wish to memorize for future use,if you do not mind,JDmysticDJ:

Quote
=====

(1) I have related to you previously,I am a bigot,by dictionary definition,when it comes to people like you.

(2) I am intolerant of the world view of people like you.

(3) I have no tolerance for your constant use of moral equivalence in order to justify your destructive thinking.

(4) I have no tolerance of your attempts to justify very real massive,pass,present atrocities by pointing out comparatively minor moral equivalences.

(5) I have no tolerance for people such as you,who seek to aggrevate,rather dimish the resurgence of religious strife,racism and extremism that currently is escalating in our country and is so evident in the modern world.

(6) I am intolerant of people like you who have a paranoia regarding religious tolerance,and seek to infect others with that paranoia.

(7) I also have no tolerance for the extremist religios fundamentalism that is so evident today,whether the extremism is derived from a Christian,Islamic,Judaic,or other demented spiriyual void.

(8) I openly admit my bigotry by dictionary definition,in those respect(as outlined in 7 above).

(9) Furthermore,I openly admit of being on a personal Jihad,a crusade,like Jake and Elroy I’m “On Mission From God” to discredit you and people of your ilk.

(10) I aspire to greatness,but I am not deluded regarding my real personal insignificance. I suppose I post here for the same reasons you and others do.

(11) I would love to change the world,but I realize the most I can hope for is to make a very minor contribution to changing the world.

(12) If bieng bigoted regarding people like you is a necessary part of that contribution,then so be it.

Have a nice day!(Scumbage!)

Unquote
=======

The numbers between brackets from (1) through (12)are mine for making the comments easier to remember.

Final words: I suggest that all posters who appreciate the meaning of the twelve comments recited above form a club and give it the following name:

“ANTI-BIGOTRY BIGOTS CLUB”.

A thousand CHEERS for JDmysticDJ.

And thank you,JDmysticDJ,for a job well done,indeed.

Report this

By Maani, September 15, 2010 at 9:14 pm Link to this comment

Call Me Roy:

Part I.

“There are many reasons to doubt the stated intentions of Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf…After 9/11 he did not hesitate to condemn the United States as an “accessory” to the attacks but more recently refused to condemn Hamas as a terrorist organization.”

He did not “condemn” anything.  His exact comment was “I wouldn’t say that the United States deserved what happened. But U.S. policies were an accessory to the crime that happened.”  Assuming you believe the official story of 9/11, he is right: our interventionist policies created “blowback” in the form of the attacks.  As for Hamas, Rauf stated in a recent CNN interview that “I condemn everyone and anyone who commits acts of terrorism, and Hamas has committed acts of terrorism.”

“This is unsurprising considering he has well-established ties to U.S. branches of the Muslim Brotherhood.”

Actually, his “ties” to the Muslim Brotherhood are merely speculated and inferred rather than actual and provable.

“He has also refused to reveal the sources of funding for the mosque project, which is projected to cost $100 million.”

That’s because he has barely even started the fundraising for it!  For all we know, George Soros will give him the entire $100 million.  You are simply regurgitating completely insupportable presumptions here.

“More importantly, he is an apologist for sharia supremacy.  In a recent op-ed, Rauf actually compared sharia law with the Declaration of Independence. This isn’t mere dishonesty; it is an Orwellian attempt to cause moral confusion about the nature of radical Islamism.”

It would help if you actually put his comment in context- to say nothing of actually learning what Shariah law ACTUALLY is.  Here is the op-ed (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/imam-feisal-abdul-rauf/what-shariah-law-is-all-a_b_190825.html) and his verbal comment (http://www.therightscoop.com/imam-rauf-sharia-law-pretty-much-just-like-the-constitution)

“The true intentions of Rauf are also revealed by the name initially proposed for the Ground Zero mosque—“Cordoba House”—which is named for a city in Spain where a conquering Muslim army replaced a church with a mosque.”

Wrong.  They did not “replace” anything.  They took a nearly completed church and turned it into a mosque.  You imply that they tore something down to build something else.

“This name is a very direct historical indication that the Ground Zero mosque is all about conquest and thus an assertion of Islamist triumphalism which we should not tolerate.”

Wrong again.  The Israelites built temples after they conquered various lands.  The Crusaders left new churches in their wake.  And Muslims sometimes (but not always) built mosques when they conquered lands.  But this is simple practicality: they (and the Jews and Christians) needed places to worship, so it would be natural to build them.  To suggest that all of these instances were “triumphalism” is simply broad-brush presumption.

(cont’d)

Report this

By Maani, September 15, 2010 at 9:12 pm Link to this comment

“They say they’re interfaith, but they didn’t propose the building of a mosque, church and synagogue. Instead they proposed a 13-story mosque and community center that will extol the glories of Islamic tolerance for people of other faiths, all while overlooking the site where radical Islamists killed almost 3,000 people in a shocking act of hatred.”

Actually, the center will include a (public) pool, gymnasium, restaurant, auditorium, and movie theater, plus offices, classrooms, and exhibition spaces where there will be multi-cultural and multi-religious exhibitions.  As well, there will be rooms set aside for prayer and worship for ALL religions; for Muslims, for Jews, for Christians, and others.  So it will be, in every real sense, a “community’ center.

“Building this structure on the edge of the battlefield created by radical Islamists is not a celebration of religious pluralism and mutual tolerance; it is a political statement of shocking arrogance and hypocrisy.”

“Battlefield?”  Boy, are you stretching it.  And actually, (again, assuming one buys the “official story” of 9/11), the act was not a religious one, but a political one.  That it was (allegedly) executed by less than a couple of dozen radical Islamic extremists does not make it a priori “religious.”

“We need to have the moral courage to denounce it. It is simply grotesque to erect a mosque at the site of the most visible and powerful symbol of the horrible consequences of radical Islamist ideology…[F]or radical Islamists, the mosque would become an icon of triumph, encouraging them in their challenge to our civilization.”

No, we need to have the courage to BUILD it!  And again, it has less to do with “radical Islamist ideology,” and more to do with political, economic and military reasons: they attacked the financial center and the Pentagon.  And even though OBL never took credit for the attacks, he did make it clear that they were a political statement, particularly re the U.S. presence in Saudi Arabia, and U.S. policy in general.

“Apologists for radical Islamist hypocrisy are trying to argue that we have to allow the construction of this mosque in order to prove America’s commitment to religious liberty. They say this despite the fact that there are already over 100 mosques in New York City.
In fact, they’re partially correct-this is a test of our commitment to religious liberty. It is a test to see if we have the resolve to face down an ideology that aims to destroy religious liberty in America, and every other freedom we hold dear.”

Who cares if there were 1000 mosques in NYC?  Right now, there is a growing Muslim population in lower Manhattan, and they are entitled to have a place to worship without having to travel to do so.

You haven’t made a single point that has any relevance or reality to it, and have simply regurgitated the fear-mongering sound-bites of the far right.

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, September 15, 2010 at 7:47 pm Link to this comment

Call me Roy it is a cultural center where anyone of any faith can pray but that isn’t its primary reason for being there. Anymore than the mosques inside the two World Trade Center towers made them mosques. Get that straight and you may be able to put down that bad case of Islamaphobia you have.

Cordoba was also a place of learning in a multicultural setting which is why the project was named after that part of Spain.

You must be one of those who want a new Crusade, a Holy War to end Islam forever. You will have to kill almost a billion people to do it and most of them are in Indonesia—-a long time ally.

Mitchell Malkin supported, retroactively the illegal internment of all Asian American citizens, and confiscated their property that the Supreme Court ruled (after the war) was un-Constitutional.

So what you want is Crusade vs Jihad with the USA being the Christian nation holding the sword of fire (nuclear weapons) to “cleanse” the earth of them eh? That is the ultimate outcome of your point of view. A very wrong and demented one at that.

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, September 15, 2010 at 6:56 pm Link to this comment

ITW, - “So…Where’s this threat from “every” Muslim?”

-

You are so obviously not listening.  Who is it, that you are aware, claiming that “all Muslims” are a threat?

Why must you always exaggerate every narrative to make sense of things?

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, September 15, 2010 at 6:47 pm Link to this comment

Citing Michelle Malkin as an “expert” on Islam is like citing David Duke as an “expert” on Blacks or Goebbels as an “expert” on Jews.

Michelle Malkin is the antithesis of EVERYTHING TruthDig stands for.

This shows just what a racist and a bigot “Die Hard” Wannabe really is.

Report this

By call me roy, September 15, 2010 at 4:41 pm Link to this comment

Islam The Eternal Flame of Muslim Outrage
by Michelle Malkin
09/10/2010

Shhhhhhh, we’re told. Don’t protest the Ground Zero mosque. Don’t burn a Koran. It’ll imperil the troops. It’ll inflame tensions. The “Muslim world” will “explode” if it does not get its way, warns sharia-peddling imam Feisal Abdul Rauf. Pardon my national security-threatening impudence, but when is the “Muslim world” not ready to “explode”?
At the risk of provoking the ever-volatile Religion of Perpetual Outrage, let us count the little-noticed and forgotten ways.
Just a few months ago in Kashmir, faithful Muslims rioted over what they thought was a mosque depicted on underwear sold by street vendors. The mob shut down businesses and clashed with police over the blasphemous skivvies. But it turned out there was no need for Allah’s avengers to get their holy knickers in a bunch. The alleged mosque was actually a building resembling London’s St. Paul’s Cathedral. A Kashmiri law enforcement official later concluded the protests were “premeditated and organized to vitiate the atmosphere.”
Indeed, art and graphics have an uncanny way of vitiating the Muslim world’s atmosphere. In 1994, Muslims threatened German supermodel Claudia Schiffer with death after she wore a Karl Lagerfeld-designed dress printed with a saying from the Koran. In 1997, outraged Muslims forced Nike to recall 800,000 shoes because they claimed the company’s “Air” logo looked like the Arabic script for “Allah.” In 1998, another conflagration spread over Unilever’s ice cream logo—which Muslims claimed looked like “Allah” if read upside-down and backward (can’t recall what they said it resembled if you viewed it with 3D glasses).

Even more explosively, in 2002, an al-Qaida-linked jihadist cell plotted to blow up Bologna, Italy’s Church of San Petronio because it displayed a 15th century fresco depicting Mohammed being tormented in the ninth circle of Hell. For years, Muslims had demanded that the art come down. Counterterrorism officials in Europe caught the would-be bombers on tape scouting out the church and exclaiming, “May Allah bring it all down. It will all come down.”
That same year, Nigerian Muslims stabbed, bludgeoned or burned to death 200 people in protest of the Miss World beauty pageant—which they considered an affront to Allah. Contest organizers fled out of fear of inflaming further destruction. When Nigerian journalist Isioma Daniel joked that Mohammed would have approved of the pageant and that “in all honesty, he would probably have chosen a wife from among them,” her newspaper rushed to print three retractions and apologies in a row. It didn’t stop Muslim vigilantes from torching the newspaper’s offices. A fatwa was issued on Daniel’s life by a Nigerian official in the sharia-ruled state of Zamfara, who declared that “the blood of Isioma Daniel can be shed. It is abiding on all Muslims wherever they are to consider the killing of the writer as a religious duty.” Daniel fled to Norway.
(Continued)

Report this

By call me roy, September 15, 2010 at 4:40 pm Link to this comment

The Eternal Flame of Muslim Outrage (Continued)

In 2005, British Muslims got all hot and bothered over a Burger King ice cream cone container whose swirly-texted label resembled, you guessed it, the Arabic script for “Allah.” The restaurant chain yanked the product in a panic and prostrated itself before the Muslim world. But the fast-food dessert had already become a handy radical Islamic recruiting tool. Rashad Akhtar, a young British Muslim, told Harper’s Magazine how the ice cream caper had inspired him: “Even though it means nothing to some people and may mean nothing to some Muslims in this country, this is my jihad. I’m not going to rest until I find the person who is responsible. I’m going to bring this country down.”
In 2007, Muslims combusted again in Sudan after an infidel elementary school teacher innocently named a classroom teddy bear “Mohammed.” Protesters chanted, “Kill her, kill her by firing squad!” and “No tolerance—execution!” She was arrested, jailed and faced 40 lashes for blasphemy before being freed after eight days. Not wanting to cause further inflammation, the teacher rushed to apologize: “I have great respect for the Islamic religion and would not knowingly offend anyone, and I am sorry if I caused any distress.”
And who could forget the global Danish cartoon riots of 2006 (instigated by imams who toured Egypt stoking hysteria with faked anti-Islam comic strips)? From Afghanistan to Egypt to Lebanon to Libya, Pakistan, Turkey and in between, hundreds died under the pretext of protecting Mohammed from Western slight, and brave journalists who stood up to the madness were threatened with beheading. It wasn’t really about the cartoons at all, of course. Little-remembered is the fact that Muslim bullies were attempting to pressure Denmark over the International Atomic Energy Agency’s decision to report Iran to the UN Security Council for continuing with its nuclear research program. The chairmanship of the council was passing to Denmark at the time. Yes, it was just another in a long line of manufactured Muslim explosions that were, to borrow a useful phrase, “premeditated and organized to vitiate the atmosphere.”
When everything from sneakers to stuffed animals to comics to frescos to beauty queens to fast-food packaging to undies serves as dry tinder for Allah’s avengers, it’s a grand farce to feign concern about the recruitment effect of a few burnt Korans in the hands of a two-bit attention-seeker in Florida. The eternal flame of Muslim outrage was lit a long, long time ago.

Report this

By call me roy, September 15, 2010 at 4:37 pm Link to this comment

What the Palestinians Really Want

Pride in being an American has always been a hallmark of our citizenry. This has been a wonderful country to grow up in. The blessings on America have been wonderful, so much so that one can be overwhelmed when considering the almost limitless blessings God has graced us with.
One can also wonder legitimately how long those blessings will last. Many people think God has removed the blessing from our land, due to the government’s grotesque pressure on Israel.
I would not disagree.
When a man like Benjamin Netanyahu at least appears to make concessions to the Arabs in public, it is obvious he is feeling unreal pressure from some source.
We know what that source is. The Jerusalem Post’s Caroline Glick (http://www.carolineglick.com) is one of the most astute journalists out there today, and she recently analyzed this situation:
“In an interview on Thursday with the London-based Asharq al-Awsat, Hamas leader Mahmoud Zahar said that the talks have nothing to do with the attack. As he put it, “The bid to link this operation to the negotiations is completely wrong. When people have the opportunity, the capability and the targets, they act.”
Glick was referring to the murder of four Israelis, by Hamas terrorists. Her views on the motivations behind these attacks are quite interesting. Hear her again, as she thinks through Netanyahu’s balancing act even within his own circle::
“Echoing these sentiments precisely, Defense Minister Ehud Barak, IDF Chief of General Staff Lt.-Gen. Gabi Ashkenazi and Shin Bet Director Yuval Diskin all reportedly objected to launching any response to Tuesday’s attack. According to the media, the three men closed ranks against Netanyahu, who reportedly wished to attack Hamas targets in Gaza following the massacre.
“Terror is always popular with the Palestinian public. As The Jerusalem Post reported, when news broke of Tuesday’s attack, mobs of Palestinians in Judea and Samaria took to the streets to celebrate.”
When Israel changed from a nation that responds with lethal force to terror attacks against its citizenry, after the Oslo Accords, terror began to win. All this is tied to the political process, and let me be clear about something:
(Continued)

Report this

By call me roy, September 15, 2010 at 4:34 pm Link to this comment

What the Palestinians Really Want (Continued)

The world does not care about the Jews’ welfare. The murder of Jews in Israel is of no consequence to diplomats, media figures, and government policymakers. Does anyone seriously believe that when Hillary Clinton reviews her briefs vis a vis the Arab-Israeli conflict, from her tony Washington home, that she grieves over the loss of life in Israel?
No, lives are merely chess pieces on a board.
If the world cared about true peace in the Middle East, coalitions and diplomatic efforts would be geared toward a brutal campaign against terrorism. Instead, the Jews are used as cannon-fodder in the appeasement of inhuman barbarians.
Netanyahu was raised in a fiercely Zionist home. The family literally put its life on the line for Israel, as all three sons served in Israel’s most elite commando unit, and Jonathan lost his life at Entebbe.
Thus, one can conclude that the pressure on him is so severe one can legitimately call it unholy. Literally.
As I often like to say to audiences, if the Bible were true, what would you expect to see in the real world?
In this geopolitical situation, the Arab-Israeli conflict, one can see the fulfillment of Bible prophecy right before our eyes, right now!
In the book of Isaiah, we read that the Lord tells the Jews that none of her extraordinary leaders can bring her peace. That is precisely what we see today; the stage is being set for Israel to stand alone against the nations. My friends, we are past the broad outlines of this coming scenario. We are seeing the Master Artist color-in the painting now. It is happening.
One day soon, Israel will find herself facing a vicious military coalition. Sadly, pathetically, we have Christian “leaders” like Brian McLaren (I write about him a lot; he is a key figure in the growing apostasy in the American Church) advocating for the Palestinians, at the same time he ridicules Bible prophecy!
Read 2 Peter 3; men like McLaren are fulfilling the very prophecy they deny! Amazing!
But back to Israel, specifically. Glick, although this is not her primary point in the recent column, shows us quite clearly that Israel is being squeezed, and that pressure is building toward something epic:
“The most distressing aspect of Netanyahu’s enthusiastic participation in a process the Israeli public rationally opposes is that it is him doing it. With Netanyahu now joining the ranks of those who attack Israel’s defenders as enemies of peace and claim that defending the country is antithetical to peace, who is left to defend us?”
The Palestinians want Israel to die. Her God will see to it that she lives.

Report this

By call me roy, September 15, 2010 at 4:31 pm Link to this comment

Somalia’s Christians Plead for Prayers during Ramadan
 
Somalia’s underground Christian community is asking fellow believers worldwide to pray for their safety during Islam’s holy month of Ramadan.
Related
Somalia Lawless Like Wild West, Says Ministry
4 Christian Orphanage Workers Beheaded in Somalia
Islamic Militants in Somalia Murder Christian Leader
Family of 17-Year-Old Somali Girl Abuses Her for Leaving Islam
Somalian Militant Group Expels World Vision
The tiny Christian population is regularly persecuted by Islamic extremists. They are requesting that fellow Christians pray they can live in peace with their Muslim neighbors. Ramadan began Aug. 11 and ends on Sept. 9.
“We are called criminal and apostate. What is our crime? We are Christians! We suffer because of what we believe,” said a Somali Christian, whose name is withheld for security reasons, to Open Doors USA.
“Please pray for all Somali Christians who suffer persecution to not seek revenge but commit their case unto God.”
Religious zeal and extremist activity generally increase in Somalia during Ramadan, noted Open Doors, a Christian persecution watchdog. Many Christians in Somalia must pretend to be practicing Muslims in order to remain safe.
A Somali Christian shared that after the suicide bombing last month in Uganda, the believer had to attend a Friday prayer meeting at the local mosque.
“I was there because I need to blend in with the crowd. That saves my life, my family and my colleagues,” the Somali Christian said.
When the prayer leader praised those behind the suicide bombing, people at the mosque shouted “Allahu Akubar,” which means “God is great.” The Christian joined with them even though the believer did not agree with the action of the suicide bombers.
“But this is the normal way things are for the Christian community in Somalia,” the Christian noted.
(Continued)

Report this

By call me roy, September 15, 2010 at 4:30 pm Link to this comment

Somalia’s Christians Plead for Prayers during Ramadan
(Continued)

Somalia is ranked No. 4 on the Open Doors World Watch List of the worst persecutors of Christians.
In June, Compass Direct News reported that a 17-year-old girl who converted to Christianity was severely beaten for leaving Islam and was chained to a tree by her family.
An Islamic extremist group, called al Shabaab, which is linked to al Qaeda, is reported to be responsible for the murders of several Christians in Somalia.
Al Shabaab militants killed Mohammed Ahmed Ali, a convert to Christianity who led an underground church, in January. And in 2009, its members were behind the beheading of four Christians who worked for a local non-governmental organization that helps orphans in Southern Somalia. The Christians were converts from Islam and were beheaded for apostasy. News of their deaths was relayed to their families by an al Shabaab militant.
Somalia, which is located on the Horn of Africa, is one of the most lawless countries in the world. Chaos and tribal conflicts have plagued the country for the past two decades. The country also suffers from a humanitarian crisis in which 35 to 40 percent of the population depends on external assistance, according to the United Nations. Also, about 1.2 million Somalis are displaced because of fighting and droughts.
The U.N. Resident and Humanitarian Coordinator for Somalia said recently that assistance for Somalia this year is predicted to be between $300 to $400 million worth, down from $650 million last year.
“[W]e have critical gaps in assistance in some of the key areas where people need help,” said U.N. official Mark Bowden to China’s Xinhua news agency.
Despite the critical need, al Shabaad in August expelled three Christian humanitarian agencies. The Islamic insurgency group accused World Vision, the Adventist Development and Relief Agency, and Diakonia of using humanitarian work as a guise for spreading the Gospel.
The Christian organizations all denied the allegations and have temporarily suspended their operations.
Al Shabaad has also reportedly declared war on the United Nations and other Western non-governmental organizations that distribute aid in Somalia.
An estimated 4 million Somalis depend on humanitarian assistance to survive, according to the United Nations.
Somalia’s population is nearly all Sunni Muslim.

Report this

By call me roy, September 15, 2010 at 4:26 pm Link to this comment

Exposing Radical Islamist Hypocrisy at Ground Zero
There are many reasons to doubt the stated intentions of Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the man behind the Ground Zero mosque. After 9/11 he did not hesitate to condemn the United States as an “accessory” to the attacks but more recently refused to condemn Hamas as a terrorist organization. This is unsurprising considering he has well-established ties to U.S. branches of the Muslim Brotherhood. He has also refused to reveal the sources of funding for the mosque project, which is projected to cost $100 million.

More importantly, he is an apologist for sharia supremacy. In a recent op-ed, Rauf actually compared sharia law with the Declaration of Independence. This isn’t mere dishonesty; it is an Orwellian attempt to cause moral confusion about the nature of radical Islamism.

The true intentions of Rauf are also revealed by the name initially proposed for the Ground Zero mosque—“Cordoba House”—which is named for a city in Spain where a conquering Muslim army replaced a church with a mosque. This name is a very direct historical indication that the Ground Zero mosque is all about conquest and thus an assertion of Islamist triumphalism which we should not tolerate.

They say they’re interfaith, but they didn’t propose the building of a mosque, church and synagogue. Instead they proposed a 13-story mosque and community center that will extol the glories of Islamic tolerance for people of other faiths, all while overlooking the site where radical Islamists killed almost 3,000 people in a shocking act of hatred.

Building this structure on the edge of the battlefield created by radical Islamists is not a celebration of religious pluralism and mutual tolerance; it is a political statement of shocking arrogance and hypocrisy.

We need to have the moral courage to denounce it. It is simply grotesque to erect a mosque at the site of the most visible and powerful symbol of the horrible consequences of radical Islamist ideology. Well-meaning Muslims, with common human sensitivity to the victims’ families, realize they have plenty of other places to gather and worship. But for radical Islamists, the mosque would become an icon of triumph, encouraging them in their challenge to our civilization.

Apologists for radical Islamist hypocrisy are trying to argue that we have to allow the construction of this mosque in order to prove America’s commitment to religious liberty. They say this despite the fact that there are already over 100 mosques in New York City.

In fact, they’re partially correct-this is a test of our commitment to religious liberty. It is a test to see if we have the resolve to face down an ideology that aims to destroy religious liberty in America, and every other freedom we hold dear.

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, September 15, 2010 at 1:34 pm Link to this comment

Seems like a direct ratio, when Americaphobia is reduced,
Islamophobia will be reduced.  This is for the general
American public not the freaky right-wing shriekers.  Every
person I’ve talked to regarding this problem tells me that and I
talk with many ordinary Americans as well as people in academia.

Years ago when I had a Persian assistant (student working her way
through college), there was not a trace of Islamophobia on campus,
not a trace, mind you.  In less than a decade that has changed and
it is not only in one direction.  In classes these days, if there are
any Muslims in class, we do remain genuinely caring and open to
discussion if any problems arise.  And sometimes problems do arise,
but it has all been open and much understanding has occurred.  But it
is my guess this is not the normal situation.  When I visit my provincial
home town, there are provincial minds and opinions there. It is really
too bad, but the kind of fanning the flames that comes from Republican
right wing conservatives on MSM gives these locals a feeling of
justification for their bigotry.  But public figure Muslims, Islamists and
their diatribes against America and Americans do not help the situation
either.

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, September 15, 2010 at 12:53 pm Link to this comment

nemesis2010 I don’t see anyone cheering the slaughter. Unlike the Right cheering our boys in their country killing them and others too. We should leave. Our PBA’s have caused enough problems for the world. We don’t ;need to compound it.

No one supports the killing of innocents, here anyway. Just because you don’t hear about it doesn’t make it not happen.

Report this
drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, September 15, 2010 at 12:35 pm Link to this comment

” - - when Islamists blew up the KFC and McDonald’s in Pakistan with their Islamic brothers inside? Why is it that when they go on killing sprees you jackasses on the Left fail to take off the blinders?”

Israeli MOSSAD, dressed as Arab-types, blew the hole in the USS Cole. Which neutral authority has verified that imposters, pretending to be islamists, did not blow up the KFC and McDonald´s?  Have you verified that the MOSSAD or CIA did not do it, blaming Moslem-types, who were paid to be scapegoats in the Twin-Tower debacle, by the Bush family?

Jackass with blinders ???

Report this
JDmysticDJ's avatar

By JDmysticDJ, September 15, 2010 at 12:29 pm Link to this comment

Uh… ? Some guy named Jake and some guy named Elroy may have been “On a Mission from God,” but those two were never a part of pop culture. It was Jake and “Elwood” who were the famous missioners. So… in addition to admitting that I am a sometime bigot, I’ll have to admit to being a sometime dumbass.

Report this

By nemesis2010, September 15, 2010 at 11:51 am Link to this comment

By Arraya, September 14 at 6:06 pm

They ordered it against nuclear weapons as well and nobody took it seriously nemesis2010, dude I am outraged!! OMG OMG OMG
Do you want for Racheal Maddow to declare a fatwa on him
Should we have congress pass a statement condemning his condemnation and send it to him in a letter written on the back of Koran”

I’ve heard it said that the Stupid hurts… every time I read one of your comments I can’t help wonder what you take for pain relief.

How about leadership that ignores a group of 50 Crister nuts, as well as, fat, ignorant ayatollahs and concentrates on what policy changes might help lift the nation from historic economic crisis? Is that too much to ask… that elected leadership concentrates on issues that matter instead of cowering before a bunch of religious fools on all stripes?

The point isn’t that a fat, ignorant ayatollah issued a fatwa… hell… that’s an hourly event with them. The point is the American left inventing a term to label anyone who dares speak the truth about the adherents of Islam and their acts of terror on the civilized world in order to divert attention from their hypocrisy and running up of the white flag of surrender while cowered in submission.

In other words the theme is the American left’s cowardice and hypocrisy… not Islamists! I know it can be hard to grasp subtle differences but it is important to try to develop the ability. Most 5th graders have an ability in understanding subtle differences.

You are actually displaying that hypocrisy with your comments because while you expressed outrage that 50 Cristers would burn qurans you ignore the thousands of fools demonstrating—with two killed—over an incident that never took place.

Where was all the Left’s outrage and all that Muslim “sensitivity” when Islamists blew up the KFC and McDonald’s in Pakistan with their Islamic brothers inside? Why is it that when they go on killing sprees you jackasses on the Left fail to take off the blinders?

Report this
JDmysticDJ's avatar

By JDmysticDJ, September 15, 2010 at 10:52 am Link to this comment

Go Right Young Man

As I have related to you previously, I am a bigot, by dictionary definition, when it comes to people like you. I am intolerant of the worldview of people like you. I am unashamed and proud of that bigotry, by dictionary definition. I have no tolerance for your constant use of moral equivalencies in order to justify your destructive thinking. I have no tolerance for your attempts to justify very real massive, past and present atrocities by pointing out comparatively minor moral equivalencies. I have no tolerance for people such as you, who seek to aggravate, rather than diminish, the resurgence of religious strife, racism, and extremism that currently is escalating in our country and is so evident in the modern world. I am intolerant of people like you who have a paranoia regarding religious tolerance, and seek to infect others with that paranoia. I also have no tolerance for the extremist religious fundamentalism that is so evident today, whether that extremism is derived from a Christian, Islamic, Judaic, or other demented spiritual void. I openly admit my bigotry, by dictionary definition, in these respects. Furthermore, I openly admit to being on a personal Jihad, a Crusade; like Jake and Elroy I’m “On a Mission from God” to discredit you, and people of your ilk. I aspire to greatness, but I am not deluded regarding my very real personal insignificance. I suppose, I post here for the same reasons you and others do. I’d love to change the world, but I realize the most I can hope for is to make a very minor contribution to changing the world.  If being bigoted regarding people like you is a necessary part of that contribution, then so be it.

Have a nice day! (Scumbag!)

Report this

By Maani, September 15, 2010 at 10:33 am Link to this comment

A superb, must-read piece that may, possibly, change the tenor of this discussion (assuming some open minds…).  And at the risk of immodesty, it is what I have been saying, Cassandra-like, for over a decade (yes, PRIOR to 9/11…):

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/14/the-meaning-of-the-koran/?pagemode=print

Peace.

Report this

Page 1 of 2 pages  1 2 >

 
Monsters of Our Own Creation? Get tickets for this Truthdig discussion of America's role in the Middle East.
Right 1, Site wide - BlogAds Premium
 
Right Skyscraper, Site Wide
Right 2, Site wide - Blogads
 
Join the Liberal Blog Advertising Network
 
 
 

A Progressive Journal of News and Opinion   Publisher, Zuade Kaufman   Editor, Robert Scheer
© 2014 Truthdig, LLC. All rights reserved.

Like Truthdig on Facebook