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This Is What Revolution Looks Like

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Posted on Nov 15, 2011
AP / Seth Wenig

Occupy Wall Street protesters rally in a small park on Canal Street in New York on Tuesday.

By Chris Hedges

Welcome to the revolution. Our elites have exposed their hand. They have nothing to offer. They can destroy but they cannot build. They can repress but they cannot lead. They can steal but they cannot share. They can talk but they cannot speak. They are as dead and useless to us as the water-soaked books, tents, sleeping bags, suitcases, food boxes and clothes that were tossed by sanitation workers Tuesday morning into garbage trucks in New York City. They have no ideas, no plans and no vision for the future. 

Our decaying corporate regime has strutted in Portland, Oakland and New York with their baton-wielding cops into a fool’s paradise. They think they can clean up “the mess”—always employing the language of personal hygiene and public security—by making us disappear. They think we will all go home and accept their corporate nation, a nation where crime and government policy have become indistinguishable, where nothing in America, including the ordinary citizen, is deemed by those in power worth protecting or preserving, where corporate oligarchs awash in hundreds of millions of dollars are permitted to loot and pillage the last shreds of collective wealth, human capital and natural resources, a nation where the poor do not eat and workers do not work, a nation where the sick die and children go hungry, a nation where the consent of the governed and the voice of the people is a cruel joke. 

Get back into your cages, they are telling us. Return to watching the lies, absurdities, trivia and celebrity gossip we feed you in 24-hour cycles on television. Invest your emotional energy in the vast system of popular entertainment. Run up your credit card debt. Pay your loans. Be thankful for the scraps we toss. Chant back to us our phrases about democracy, greatness and freedom. Vote in our rigged political theater. Send your young men and women to fight and die in useless, unwinnable wars that provide corporations with huge profits. Stand by mutely as our bipartisan congressional supercommittee, either through consensus or cynical dysfunction, plunges you into a society without basic social services including unemployment benefits. Pay for the crimes of Wall Street. 

The rogues’ gallery of Wall Street crooks, such as Lloyd Blankfein at Goldman Sachs, Howard Milstein at New York Private Bank & Trust, the media tycoon Rupert Murdoch, the Koch brothers and Jamie Dimon at JPMorgan Chase & Co., no doubt think it’s over. They think it is back to the business of harvesting what is left of America to swell their personal and corporate fortunes. But they no longer have any concept of what is happening around them. They are as mystified and clueless about these uprisings as the courtiers at Versailles or in the Forbidden City who never understood until the very end that their world was collapsing. The billionaire mayor of New York, enriched by a deregulated Wall Street, is unable to grasp why people would spend two months sleeping in an open park and marching on banks. He says he understands that the Occupy protests are “cathartic” and “entertaining,” as if demonstrating against the pain of being homeless and unemployed is a form of therapy or diversion, but that it is time to let the adults handle the affairs of state. Democratic and Republican mayors, along with their parties, have sold us out. But for them this is the beginning of the end.

The historian Crane Brinton in his book “Anatomy of a Revolution” laid out the common route to revolution. The preconditions for successful revolution, Brinton argued, are discontent that affects nearly all social classes, widespread feelings of entrapment and despair, unfulfilled expectations, a unified solidarity in opposition to a tiny power elite, a refusal by scholars and thinkers to continue to defend the actions of the ruling class, an inability of government to respond to the basic needs of citizens, a steady loss of will within the power elite itself and defections from the inner circle, a crippling isolation that leaves the power elite without any allies or outside support and, finally, a financial crisis. Our corporate elite, as far as Brinton was concerned, has amply fulfilled these preconditions. But it is Brinton’s next observation that is most worth remembering. Revolutions always begin, he wrote, by making impossible demands that if the government met would mean the end of the old configurations of power. The second stage, the one we have entered now, is the unsuccessful attempt by the power elite to quell the unrest and discontent through physical acts of repression.

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By elisalouisa, January 29, 2012 at 10:05 pm Link to this comment

Leftist Wolves???”  What is this? Does the fact that there was violence at Occupy Oakland stir hope in your heart that all Occupy protests will be permanently subdued?  Night-Gaunt is quite right Michael, you do support the position of the oligarchs. Not only that, you give the impression of accepting all actions by government and Wall Street as legitimate and are in favor of giving the people no recourse such as OWS.

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By Night-Gaunt, January 29, 2012 at 9:27 pm Link to this comment

Well Ozark Michael what you say of me I would say of you right down the line. I see no need to repeat it only with your name in my place. You ignore the obvious and find refuge in the ideological mire you think is clear fresh water. You must like the oligarchs for you support their position. What else can I think when you besmirch caring people of all stripes who see a major problem with our country an want it to stop an return to a gov’t that actually supports us instead of the few who own so much an are purchasing the rest under laws they helped write an their gov’t agents they purchased to make them laws. Welcome to the second Gilded Age.

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By heterochromatic, January 29, 2012 at 8:25 pm Link to this comment

thank you OM—I don’t really think him a scoundrel but
feared to omit the word as further deviation from the
original might prove too obscurant.

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By OzarkMichael, January 29, 2012 at 8:11 pm Link to this comment

NightGaunt is an innocent who accepts the propaganda of leftist wolves with an endearing honesty. After years of being propagandized, NightGaunt has developed a very thick ideological skull which causes him to misinterpret events to the point that he cheers for things he should be afraid of… and fears things he should embrace… but for all that he is not a scoundrel.

He is one of the most wrong-headed people I know, but after dueling with him for a few years, i think his heart is in the right place.

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By heterochromatic, January 29, 2012 at 7:13 pm Link to this comment

Bullshit is the last refuge of a scoundrel- commenter.

breaking windows and throwing shit at cops ain’t quite protest.

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By Night-Gaunt, January 29, 2012 at 6:48 pm Link to this comment

Protesting is the last resort for people when all else hase failed, an such petty “crime” laws are useful to help shut them up. It was used against American blacks ever since the end of the Civil War.

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By heterochromatic, January 29, 2012 at 6:35 pm Link to this comment

Knight Gaunt—-there’s something oddly remarkable about arresting people who
are committing petty crimes in and around the street?

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By Night-Gaunt, January 29, 2012 at 6:26 pm Link to this comment

Even so 300 were arrested in Oakland. The corporate right wing still calling the shots in local gov’t too. They are everywhere an speech is verboten to them if they question the status quo of the oligarchs running the show. Violence doesn’t work, never did an any who try it should be booted out of the line an tossed to the police to handle. Not that they need my advice they have been holding in their peaceful marches an sit ins. Usually as in most of the time it is the police heavy handedness that calls the news to what is going on an the police are the ones that rightfully look bad.

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By heterochromatic, January 29, 2012 at 4:15 pm Link to this comment

I kinda liked bagbum


evocative of bindlestiff and the kind of dude drinking the dregs of yesterday’s big
bottle of Thunderbird wrapped in yesterday’s old brown paper sack.

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By OzarkMichael, January 29, 2012 at 4:00 pm Link to this comment

Pushing other people forward to violence when you are at a protest is bad enough, but pushing them forward from the safe distance of the internet is the rock bottom of Leftist hypocrisy. And ‘unregistered’ Left wing hypocrisy at that!

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By sitting bull, January 29, 2012 at 5:58 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I take issue with Chris Hedge’s use of the word - the police ‘wade’ in and wield their clubs.  It’s more like the police RUSH in. 

Anyway, it looks like OCCUPY Oakland has taken to shields and a crude Phalanx formation.  Double row, boyz, double row and a orderly retreat whilst holding the line.  Just watch 300 to get the general idea. 

hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_formation

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By OzarkMichael, January 10, 2012 at 7:45 pm Link to this comment

Yeah, that was a really good send off heterochromatic. It had a Bob Dylan-esque quality. i was surprised that you put so much artistry into the old boot in the butt as you kicked Moonie to the curb.

I never figured out what Moonraven meant when he said:

Seems I forgot to add the troll ardee to the IGNORED list along with the happy pair of Ozzie and Hettie, those bagbums from the 50s t.v. series that have decided to occupy truthdig instead of having the courtesy to go gently into that good night.

It’s easy to see why there will never be a revolution in gringolandia—it’s a rogue state populated with trolls, bigots and the intellectually and testicularly challenged.

First what is a “bagbum”? What were bagbums doing on TV? We are all ‘bagbums’ so its important to know.

Second, I gather from the earlier mention that ardee is the “troll”. Well, we learn something everyday. Even trolls. Since my name is next in line I got labelled as the “bigot”, although i didnt know i was one but we must face facts. That means the “intellectually and testicularly challenged” must be…

hetero-  If you dont feel the manly hormones coursing through your body, you need to see a doctor. They have shots for that, you know.

As far as the intellectual part: There are no shots to improve that. However, I always did give you a head start in our arguments, and will continue to do so.

No need to thank me. What else are friends for?

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By heterochromatic, January 10, 2012 at 12:45 pm Link to this comment

ardee—- most gracious of you. thank you.

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By ardee, January 10, 2012 at 5:59 am Link to this comment

heterochromatic, November 30, 2011 at 7:01 am

Happened to notice this and felt it necessary to compliment you on your prose. As well as your acumen regarding this particular poster….

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By ardee, January 6, 2012 at 6:53 pm Link to this comment

Michael Lee Canfield, January 6 at 8:27 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Almost, Chris.
The elite do have a plan. They want to rule the world. But before that can be accomplished, they have to sink America and it’s consitution.

Errr , perhaps if you took your head out of the bible you would see that the elite already do rule the world. Thus far the Constitution of these United States has not deterred this nation from being the largest arms dealer in the world, using our military might to subjugate third world nations for their resources and our profit, and basically playing a rather large part in sinking the economies of several nations our own included.

Your childish image of John Wayne carrying the old stars and stripes into battle against a variety of heavily accented bad guys is just really, truly silly.


(which was mostly accomplished with the passage of the Defense Internment Act) Satan has a plan. A one world Government with him at the head. You better read the back of The Book again.

You have fun seeking Satan while some of us will work to restore our democracy. Were I a betting man I might bet that, in the fullness of time, we might very well have a one world government. I would also wager that the titular head of that government wont have horns.

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By Michael Lee Canfield, January 6, 2012 at 9:27 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Almost, Chris.
The elite do have a plan. They want to rule the world. But before that can be accomplished, they have to sink America and it’s consitution. (which was mostly accomplished with the passage of the Defense Internment Act) Satan has a plan. A one world Government with him at the head. You better read the back of The Book again.

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By Paul Watkins, November 30, 2011 at 2:59 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The truth gives no mercy when confronted with
liars…just keep cutting through the deceit with the
truth Chris…there’s nothing more powerful than an
intelligent and truthful mind.

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By heterochromatic, November 30, 2011 at 8:01 am Link to this comment

lune~~~~ flap your wings and fly off with your feathers and pinheadedness into
the ebon night of your blighted racism.

darkness there and nothing more.

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By moonraven, November 30, 2011 at 6:05 am Link to this comment

Oops—my bad.  Seems I forgot to add the troll ardee to the IGNORED list along with the happy pair of Ozzie and Hettie, those bagbums from the 50s t.v. series that have decided to occupy truthdig instead of having the courtesy to go gently into that good night.

It’s easy to see why there will never be a revolution in gringolandia—it’s a rogue state populated with trolls, bigots and the intellectually and testicularly challenged.

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By ardee, November 30, 2011 at 5:54 am Link to this comment

moonraven, 

Constantly posting that you are ignoring someone is not really ignoring them you might understand.

Just trying to be helpful here.

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By IMax, November 29, 2011 at 2:59 pm Link to this comment

“Growing food in a collective, communal manner, is more convincing than just camping out.”

-

What an extraordinary idea. Truly forward looking. A move such as this, particularly if successful, would keep both the protest and agenda of Occupy alive for years.

I too would like to study the details.

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By Leefeller, November 29, 2011 at 7:23 am Link to this comment

cclauson, apparently the concept of protest escapes you?

The protests are not about farmers and farming, nor are protesters inclined to be beholding to the entity they are protesting. It is not about the land or the offices, it is about unfairness and injustice.  The 99 percent being disenfranchised by the 1 percent and blatant inequality. It is like the city asked them to move onto the nearest soup kitchen and have a hot meal?

I do not know about LA occupy, but the offer seemed nice if it happened to be directed to me personally, because I am a farmer, but any contingents the ‘agreement’ would seem to take away from the message.

By the way the protests are not about the tents, it is much more than that, each Occupy Movement around the county seems slightly different. More people are living under bridges then ever and the bridges are crumbling, this says something about a broken system.

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By moonraven, November 29, 2011 at 3:26 am Link to this comment

hettie bigot:

IGNORED.

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By Deep Green Resistance, November 28, 2011 at 11:11 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The powerful will not give up their stranglehold without a fight, hence the overt
repression we have seen in recent weeks. Not only that, but a majority of the
population refuses to admit the dire nature of our predicament. Zygmunt
Bauman says that rational people will go quietly, meekly, joyously into a gas
chamber, if only they are allowed to believe it is a bathroom. And Ill say that
rational people go quietly, meekly to the end of the world if only you’ll allow
them to believe that buying energy saving bulbs is gonna save the day.

The fact is that 98% of the old growth forests are gone. 99% of of the prairies
are gone. 80% of the rivers on this planet do not support life anymore. On top
of it all, some climate scientists are giving us 5 years before we reach the point
of irreversible damage to the systems that support life on this planet. We are
out of species, we are out soil, and we are out of time. And what we are being
told by most of the environmental movement is that the way to stop all of this
is through personal consumer choices. It’s time for a real strategy that can win.

Announcing Deep Green Resistance, a movement that sees the last 10,000
years of human history as the culture of death currently making it so difficult
for so many, both human and nonhuman, to pursue a life of true fulfillment. It
is time we stand with life and against those who wish to destroy it in the name
of profit, or progress, or both. There is a strategy available for anyone willing to
fight for this planet and the live that can thrive on this our only home. We are
in the midst of a war for our very survival, and now this war has two sides.
Learn more about how you can get involved in this struggle at:

deepgreenresistance.org

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By cclauson, November 28, 2011 at 1:35 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Quick comment—I just read an article in the L.A. Times that said that Occupy L.A. was offered by the city office space and land to farm if they would decamp—and they’re turning it down.

The reason I’m posting this is to support what I posted earlier about lack of leadership and direction.  Without knowing how much/what kind of land, and what kind of office space, this seems like a very good deal.  With office space you can organize a political movement.  If you farm land, then you put theory into practice and show how a society can produce things in a different way, which is what occupy claims as a goal.  Growing food in a collective, communal manner is more convincing than just camping out.

Again, I don’t know all of the details, and it might be appropriate to negotiate around the edges, but the article makes it sound like they flatly turned it down. If so, this is the kind of thing I’m talking about and I think a lot of other people are talking about as well.

Personally, I’m not that impressed by sleeping on concrete.  Every time occupiers cite this as a major accomplishment in the movement, I slap my forehead, because I just think it makes them sound pampered, and I’m guessing a lot of other people have the same reaction.  I’d be much more impressed, and possibly a lot of others feel the same, if they organized politically, ran local candidates for office and effected policy changes from the ground up, or did local agriculture in a communal way.

Again, there might be some part of the story that I’m not getting from the article, but it looks like the city is practically saying, “we support you and your aims, now here are public resources to further your goals.”  The fact that they turned it down makes them look unserious, and this I think is why they’re not winning more national sentiment than they are.

Additional comment: This is part I think of a larger issue—on a number of occasions, local mayors (Oakland, Seattle) have come out and publicly stated that they support the movement and occupiers, but is there any way they could please get them to decamp?  This would have been an excellent juncture at which to make demands at the local level—the politicians would have looked like hypocrites if they didn’t give something, as it was the protestors looked unreasonable and provided the mayors with cover to evict them.  In fact, if you’re thinking about demands on the local level, office space and farm land sound actually pretty good to me.  The fact that the city of L.A. had to come up with demands for the protestors, and even then the protestors didn’t take it or negotiate I think is a huge problem.

(Article:)
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/11/occupy-la-lapd-arrests-city-hall-camp.html

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By heterochromatic, November 28, 2011 at 12:00 pm Link to this comment

moonie’s rancid racism is a merely indicative of derangement and disease state
and the sad saga of a souse who’s too confused by complexity and groggily grasps
at the simple-minded

“white men bad”

bit of batshit and squeezes tight till she’s got

mere guano smears

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By moonraven, November 28, 2011 at 10:39 am Link to this comment

What about my mother’s wearing combat boots, kiddie-o?

If you and the other infantile twerps and trolls on this site are what revolution looks like, I can say with 100 percent certainty that it doesn’t have a chance of the proverbial snowball in hell.

In fact, you might as well fold your tents and walk into the sea, because you are done.

No need to stick a fork in you folks to smell the rancid silliness of white mischief.

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By Leefeller, November 28, 2011 at 7:51 am Link to this comment

Me thinks moonbeam is missing a few lights!

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By moonraven, November 28, 2011 at 3:57 am Link to this comment

lee:  Looks like what you really need to do—all of you—is knock off the potty talks.

It’s not for nothing that I have pegged all of you at the political age of 4:  potty talk, pissing in the sandbox—all indicators of a disturbed kindergarten kiddie who’d rather be home with mommie while dad’s at work.

This, kids, is not your mother’s bed.

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By Leefeller, November 27, 2011 at 5:54 pm Link to this comment

Sounds like we need to bring out our Sparkitis!

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By Night-Gaunt, November 27, 2011 at 5:39 pm Link to this comment

From what I can tell from my own vantage point if Chris Hedges and the Occupy have a chance of derailing the oligarchs long term plan to topple this economy and gov’t to take over my bet would be on the oligarchs. But I’d like to be wrong since what the Occupy the oligarchs is the one thing, their kryptonite that the oligarchs fear most. Why? Since the slaves always out number their masters so keeping them quiet and punishing those who try to in spectacular fashion usually works. But right now we still have a chance and people are being illegally abused as DHS organizes 18 or more police forces in how to shut them up and shut them down. And the DHS doesn’t operate without the president’s say so. Now mull over that for awhile IMax.

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By ardee, November 27, 2011 at 4:16 pm Link to this comment

Your true color—a dingy white—has been revealed, as always.

Actually I am more of a sun and wind burned pink, and you are more of a bigoted jackwagon , thinking that only your own color and cause are important. You are, and have been from the advent of your postings here, an impediment to progress, progress which depends upon all people joining together.

You are nothing more than a petty hater.

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By ardee, November 27, 2011 at 4:12 pm Link to this comment

As usual the only point coming from Imax is the one on top of his head, which appears to be very uncomfortable from how he is sitting.

...and it makes hat buying impossible.

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By heterochromatic, November 27, 2011 at 3:55 pm Link to this comment

unless you’re a White Supremacist in denial…..then you can lick on the lunatic
raver


——I’m not putting up with some raving lune calling me a racist because she’s
got a headful of crazy.

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By heterochromatic, November 27, 2011 at 3:51 pm Link to this comment

thanks and you may have a lick

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By truedigger3, November 27, 2011 at 3:47 pm Link to this comment

heterochromatic,

You are a shitty asshole Troll!!

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By heterochromatic, November 27, 2011 at 12:44 pm Link to this comment

you stick to cleaning out your own backed-up piles of crap, moonieMcCarthy

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_jK8P_-ByNRo/TQy-VRpj7qI/AAAAAAAAAQQ/mgaZ-
uWpwaM/s1600/poster1enema.jpg

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By moonraven, November 27, 2011 at 12:28 pm Link to this comment

hettie:

You are now on IGNORED.

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By heterochromatic, November 27, 2011 at 12:24 pm Link to this comment

moon—-how much longer will you deny that you’re a syphliitic and soused Joe
McCarthy wannabe?

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By moonraven, November 27, 2011 at 12:08 pm Link to this comment

hettie:

Why not just give the denial a rest.  Next you’ll be pissing in the sandbox and blubbering “Your mother wears combat boots”.

The world is only a mirror if you insist on being a narcissist.

Personally, I find all of you singularly colorless (no pun intended) and without any spark.

And you folks think you’ll strike up a revolution?  Send me a skype call from the Oval Office.

I won’t be holding my breath.

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By heterochromatic, November 27, 2011 at 9:37 am Link to this comment

lune——If you were NOT a white supremacist you wouldn’t be pissed about being
caught with your pants down.—-


if I were not a racist, I wouldn’t be upset if you called me one?  that’s the level of
your worldly intelligence?


your a sad, silly fool if it is.

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By Leefeller, November 27, 2011 at 7:03 am Link to this comment

Sitting on ones head, obviously cuts the oxygenating process of reason in certain peoples brain cavity’s, this explains the connection between conservatism and criminal activity, the clear lack of integrity and a crystal view of over reaching, with the deluded unaccountable denial, fueled by an arsenal of lies, deceptions and manipulations.

Far as I can tell disenfranchisement of the 99 percent is real, so Hedges is said to be poking a stick with or at Occupy? If Hedges did even a bit of what Imax conjures from his deluded time warp Kings crony statements,... Well I say,  good for Hedges, least some people got off their asses and called attention to the unfairness, injustice and blatant inequality heaped on the 99 percent by the few.  Occupy has dragged those long forgotten and forbotton topic of inequlity and abuses out of the closet. Now many more people are aware of the 1 percent, (really the few) who are not playing fair. (Lets face it the conservatives need one person to blame, someone to point at so why not Hedges?

As usual the only point coming from Imax is the one on top of his head, which appears to be very uncomfortable from how he is sitting.

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By moonraven, November 27, 2011 at 6:46 am Link to this comment

Yeah, right.

When professional milktoast Hedges topples the government he had better send me a piece of the carpet of the Oval Office.

I still suspect that he receives a federal subsidy for being mealy-mouthed.  Like agribiz does not to plant food for the hungry.

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By IMax, November 27, 2011 at 5:05 am Link to this comment

The first paragraph of my previous post should have read as follows:

Armed with the knowledge that Chris Hedges aided in planning the Occupy protests it’s instructive to revisit this November 15 article. In this piece Hedges clearly, and I dare say gleefully, outlines his knowledge of what it takes to topple governments.

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By IMax, November 27, 2011 at 4:59 am Link to this comment

Armed with the knowledge that Chris Hedges aided in planning the Occupy protests it’s instructive to revisit this 15 article. In this piece Hedges clearly, and I dare say gleefully, outlines his knowledge of what it takes to topple governments.

Equally instructive is what Hedges does not write. He fails to make it clear that he’s been so heavily involved in devising and planning ‘Occupy’ events. In other words; Hedges, by his own admittance, fully understood that by unlawfully ‘Occupying’ public and private spaces for extended periods of time local authorities would, eventually, be forced to act harshly. Hedges appears to have eagerly anticipated the events of Nov. 15.

Fully understanding his own role in unfolding events Hedges finishes this article (the day Zuccotti Park was cleared of tents and protesters) this way. “I felt this twinge of ‘euphoria’ again in my stomach this morning, this utter certainty that the impossible (toppling the U.S. system of governance) is possible, this realization that the mighty will fall.”

Hedges looked at his work and smiled.

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By moonraven, November 27, 2011 at 4:52 am Link to this comment

Calling me crazy for tellilng the truth seems to be all you bigots are capable of doing.

Your true color—a dingy white—has been revealed, as always.

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By ardee, November 27, 2011 at 4:38 am Link to this comment

moonraven, November 26 at 9:14 am

Thus, as you do with every appearance here, you descend into your crazy little world.

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By moonraven, November 27, 2011 at 4:28 am Link to this comment

Hey, hettie:

If you were NOT a white supremacist you wouldn’t be pissed about being caught with your pants down.

Duh.

Ignorant whites are now being ground in the same meat grinder used on Native Americans—with onoe big difference:  you guys are being ground willingly, even whistling as you are being spit out to be served in McDonald’s.

Congratulations; you have proved that our species was one of Creation’s biggest booboos.

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By heterochromatic, November 26, 2011 at 10:47 am Link to this comment

how bout you get the snakes driven out of your head and stop calling people you
don’t know White Supremacists, lune?

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By Leefeller, November 26, 2011 at 10:46 am Link to this comment

Youse ass wipes need to get taken to the hackle shack for one of those high colonic without the rose water.If I had my druthers, it wouldn’t even have any water.

Now those damn Amish are getting into the deadwood mentality it seems even some Amish don’t like other Amish, I suspect it has something to do with brothers and sisters?  Isn’t that right sister moonshine?

A new meaning to ‘a little Amish’

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By moonraven, November 26, 2011 at 10:14 am Link to this comment

How about you white supremacists just line up, drop trou and take your woodshedding like men, instead of like whining white mice?

I’ll supply the paddle, since I am a generous person by nature.

D’accord?

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By heterochromatic, November 26, 2011 at 10:02 am Link to this comment

moonraven——try to do your woodshedding before posting, s’il vous plait.

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By moonraven, November 26, 2011 at 9:29 am Link to this comment

The real problems are twins—and they are not stoking gender issues nor racism, even:  they are the double-your-fun duo of denial and stupidity.

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By Leefeller, November 26, 2011 at 8:06 am Link to this comment

Occupy Wall Street is being covered by the mass media with tainted, biased and unreal coverage, not much different from the half witted mean spirited tripe being presented here many posters on TD, shrills, trolls and some who present themselves as the self righteous, but I am tring to give them up!

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By moonraven, November 26, 2011 at 4:34 am Link to this comment

Yes, Whites Uber Alles IS bullshit, as with a multipolar planet rapidly forming, whites are finding themselves being dragged kicking and screaming to the woodshed.

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By heterochromatic, November 25, 2011 at 9:45 pm Link to this comment

Oz, please be so kind as to cease addressing moonraven as “dude” or in any way
addressing moonraven as being masculine.

the comments going around have petty much ceased to be much more than
personal and all and while I understand that it’s annoying, especially bullshit such
as that ” W hites uber alles” stuff…..maybe it’s best not to keep stoking it with
gender shit.

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By OzarkMichael, November 25, 2011 at 9:26 pm Link to this comment

oops, moonraven, sorry dude, you are a majority. You are huge.

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By ardee, November 25, 2011 at 7:58 pm Link to this comment

OzarkMichael, November 25 at 12:07 pm

You are a fanatic, though I do understand that you do not see yourself as such. Thus your opinion of me and my posts are not very important to me. What is important are your distortions and constant lies , though, again, you are more than likely to believe each and every piece of crap you post, as you are, again, a fanatic.

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By moonraven, November 25, 2011 at 1:23 pm Link to this comment

Ozarko:

I see you are more than grammatically challenged—either you did not read my last post or you didn’t get it, either of which is unacceptable since you chose to disparage me anyway in your usual W hites Uber Alles fashiom—even stooping so low as to mention what tiny minority native americans are due to your ongoing genocide against us.

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By OzarkMichael, November 25, 2011 at 1:07 pm Link to this comment

ardee wrote this:

Time and again Moonraven seeks to make the point that HIS people are the only important ones here, that HIS cause is the only just one. Sickening much?

Would it meet with your disapproval if i told you, ardee, that you do the same thing? Would you be able to calmly reflect, consider, and understand what i am trying to say?

It is only YOUR people and YOUR cause that you consider just.To me you are just like moonraven.

Certainly every faction has the right to consider its cause to be just, but the exclusivity creates a major problem.

The issue isnt merely whether the Occupy cause is just or unjust. The issue is simply this: exclusivity against others, and I see that you feel it sharply when it happens to you, but not at all when you do it to me.

Occupy supporters reserve confrontational methods only for its own people, its own cause.  there is no justice outside its cause, and no allowance for others to represent some other cause using the same method.

I will provide a new example since you are tired of my old examples. The idea of a ‘Constitional Convention’(mentioned by several Occupy supporters) would probably be for its own followers to attend and vote for, while Occupy’s guiding committee draws up the proposals and document. I dont get the feeling that conservatives would be allowed to influence that Occupy committee.

Again, it is not a matter of whether the Native American or Occupy cause is just. It is the exclusivity, the walling off of all justice to one’s own cause that I find problematic. And since moonraven does this as an admitted small minority,  s/he is far less problematic than you, who truly believes that all justice for 99% of the people is represented by such as yourself.

There. I have said what i think. I assure you there isnt malice or fascism in this post. In its essence, my demand is for equality and inclusion of my cause to be on equal footing with yours. That is not necessarily a denial of your own just cause, it is merely a protest that you make your cause unjust by your exclusivity.

Believe it or not, that exclusivity is my main problem with Occupy Wall Street. Now that you have seen the problem bacause it was foisted upon you by moonraven, perhaps now you will be able to listen to me.

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By Leefeller, November 25, 2011 at 11:32 am Link to this comment

Humanity is not free, never has been and probalby never will be! The layers of
worry shall never be gone. The hissing sounds of esceaping gas shall never escape
my notice.

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By moonraven, November 25, 2011 at 8:50 am Link to this comment

Ardee:

1.  Moonraven (aka this poster) has commented many times that she is not a he.  Are you deliberately dense or just a garden-variety misogynist as well as a racist?  Or is it that you believe in the Easter Bunny and the necessity of being male to have balls?

2.  You do not seem to get anything.  When the original crime, or original sin if you are christian which I very much doubt, is committed against indigenous people and that crime is the basis for the 1% having everybody else’s share of the pie, Nietzsche and Foucault as well as this poster would say that you must go back to where it went wrong and FIX it, or else you are just building on blood and quicksand.  In this case that means acknowledging and supporting the liberation of indigenous peoples from colonialism if YOU want to be liberated from it. 

3.  Of course, if you persist in thinking that because you are white that your name will magically appear on the Forbes list (where, if you will note, the number one slot is amply filled by Carlos Slim, a Mexican of Lebanese origins), then you are simply unredeemable on any and all counts.

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By ardee, November 25, 2011 at 8:20 am Link to this comment

Yours ,mine and ours

Is it ego-centrism? Is it a form of elitism? Perhaps it is even worse than that, either real rock bottom ignorance or a desire to keep us separate?

Some 30 occupiers from Boston trekked down to Plymouth to join some of MY people in the Day of Mourning (aka Genocide Day): 

Victims of this evil empire are not delineated, or kept apart, by ethnicity, accidents of birth but must join together against the ruling class.

Time and again Moonraven seeks to make the point that HIS people are the only important ones here, that HIS cause is the only just one. Sickening much?

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By moonraven, November 25, 2011 at 3:37 am Link to this comment

While some smug supposed occupiers on this site were patting themselves on the butt for their wonderful Thanksgivings, a few occupiers out there are actually starting to GET it.

Some 30 occupiers from Boston trekked down to Plymouth to join some of MY people in the Day of Mourning (aka Genocide Day):  http://bostonglobe.com/metro/2011/11/25/solidarity-occupy-group-joins-with-native-americans/uGgtpNbhAaYmKRNmLvnmTK/story.html

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By GradyLeeHoward, November 24, 2011 at 6:41 pm Link to this comment

“God bless us every one, especially Uncle Scrooge,”
no wait, that’s next month. I think the triptophan
is mellowing our bickers. If you haven’t kept in
mind those who can’t afford turkey today the rest
of the year it’s probably too late to start now. 
My friend Jacqueline S. Homan (a writer of
debunking books) says we Occupiers are a spoiled
crew who will ignore underclass needs later. I’ll
have to investigate how that works out in Egypt. I
expect the Zabaline continue picking garbage.
Fascists try to compare our poor here with Third
World poor saying, “At least you have a flush
toilet and a TV.” (some don’t) They even “reason”
that minimum wage “slackers” can afford a cellphone
that cost millionaires (carphone?) 12K in 1980, and
a media player (Beta VHS) that cost executive
earners 75K in 1975, extrapolating (Beck, Limbaugh
method)that unemployed losers now live like royalty
(in the Mighty USA).  Such Retard Partiation only
suggests brains roasted before an HD widescreen
stuck on Fox. I see the footage from Syria shot
from the pocket, and I ain’t so stupid. Iran had I-
phones as soon as we did.

Maybe we radicals and Occupiers need to make an
uplift of families with cut off utilities our next
demonstration project. There are ‘Squatter”
projects ongoing in some major cities and Big Grid
Power Utilities are as deplorable as the banks and
war profiteers. People will be dying in fires this
winter caused by fires from make-do heating unless
we act soon. I just bought a family I’ve never met
in the northern tier $300 of heating stove pellets.
What can you do?

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By heterochromatic, November 24, 2011 at 3:26 pm Link to this comment

GradyLee—continue having a happy and have more miracles—

http://youtu.be/xKBttQmhDBw

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By elisalouisa, November 24, 2011 at 3:18 pm Link to this comment

Many are for Obama TD3 because he is the “lesser evil.”. It not just if Michael Moore is for Obama but why and to what degree.  It may be difficult for Moore to admit that he was wrong as to Obama. We shall see.

Yes, Michael Moore dared to speak the truth as to corrupt power. Frankly, I’m astonished that he succeeded in this venture. Perhaps the fact that he looks so harmless had something to do with it. Arabian Sinbad.

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By GradyLeeHoward, November 24, 2011 at 2:37 pm Link to this comment

i’m having a wonderful Thanksgiving. Thanks very
much for asking. Miracle on 34th St. is related to
Miracle in Milan in the strangest way, and I’ve
watched them both today.
We post-apocalyptic former progressive Republicans
are always fascinated by the contradictions within
Progressive/self hating former Democrats’ pragmatic
purges of purity. The award for most glaring
contradiction of the day goes to: Why do you care
about Obama and Michael Moore’s lukewarm support of
the Democratic Party when you have no confidence in
our obsolete system of choosing leaders/office
holders? Seems like if we have it together and are
preparing to dictate terms, Obama (who is a war
criminal and hater of the poor worldwide by
definition) would be going the way of Mubarak and
/or Ceausescu. And if we don’t “have the situation
well in hand” like Mighty Mouse or the late John
Holmes, then we will not vote and will soon be
greeting a Romney-Gingrich ticket’s inauguration
come January 2013. What will we be doing in the
next 11 months to resolve this contradiction?
Will it be the “real Santa on trial” a la Obama, or
will it be the poor and dispossessed flying high in
the sky after a drone attack? Petraeus is watching
from his cliff perch with eagle eyes. He can swoop
down after any straggling mouse and devour even
fat-rat Mike Moore while doing one-armed push-ups.
(so goes the legend). When it comes to raw power we
non-violent types are mice not men and we need
solidarity. Just remember what the doormouse said,
“Feed your head! Feed your head!” Intellectual anorexics cannot stand up to a military coup. (Look at Egypt, I say again.)

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By Arabian Sinbad, November 24, 2011 at 11:56 am Link to this comment

For those who have doubts and misgivings about where Michael Moore stands, they should watch his documentary “Capitalism: A Love Story.” In this documentary he comes as a visionary, criticizing corrupt and greedy capitalists before even the economic crises hit so hard. Towards the end of the movie, he with few followers stand in front of one of these greedy, corrupt financial institutions to serve a notice on behalf of the people to stand in a court of justice for their responsibility in corruption and greed.

This stand elevated Michael Moore in my estimation, and for me it doesn’t matter what his party affiliation was or is. All what matters is that he is a consciousness and moral human being who dared to speak truth to corrupt power when it wasn’t even fashionable to question anyone with political or economic power!

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By truedigger3, November 24, 2011 at 11:08 am Link to this comment

Re: By elisalouisa, November 24 at 7:17 am

elisalouisa,

Thank you for the link.
At that time of that interview with Michael Moore, Obama was in office for eight months and it was glaringly obvious who he REALLY is but Michael Moore had nothing but praise and excuses for him???
Yes, Michael Moore made very good enlightening movies but I will be very interested to know his opinion about Obama now and whether he will support him next election or not.

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By elisalouisa, November 24, 2011 at 7:17 am Link to this comment

TD3:So, when Michael Moore and the rest of the chronic Partisan Democrats like Paul Krugman, Robert Reich, the Nation People even Obama etc ... talk of “supporting” or “sympathising” with OWS, I look at it as a clever attempt to co-opt OWS and if OWS fell for that bullshitting, it will be the end of OWS.

We have a parting of the ways TD3. Michael Moore is an anomaly in politics and entertainment, irritating to conservatives and somewhat of a hero to others. Many support and sympathize with OWS and cannot be categorized as to why.

http://www.linktv.org/programs/michael-moore-on-obama-the-media-and-his-new-movie

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By David J. Cyr, November 24, 2011 at 6:02 am Link to this comment

Liberals use every incremental means possible to prevent progress.

Voter Consent Wastes Dissent:

http://chenangogreens.org/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=498&Itemid=1

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By ardee, November 24, 2011 at 5:10 am Link to this comment

truedigger3, November 23 at 9:31 am

Had you actually listened to Moore these last few years you would not have to ask such a silly question.

Moore’s current involvement with democratic politics is confined to his local grassroots chapter, which he and his friends attempt to sway towards a more leftward position.

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By heterochromatic, November 23, 2011 at 12:17 pm Link to this comment

Oz ,  it’s part of the words to a song.

http://www.lyricstime.com/gala-i-m-the-world-the-world-is-me-lyrics.html

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By Leefeller, November 23, 2011 at 11:16 am Link to this comment

Yes OM my comment was addressed to conservative enablers and regressive thoughtlessness, your allies here on TD,  but not just you OM, thanks for the reminder though!

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By truedigger3, November 23, 2011 at 9:31 am Link to this comment

Re: By ardee, November 23 at 4:32 am Link to this comment


ardee wrote addressing David J. Cyr:

People ( not you obviously) evolve and grow. Moore has , in my opinion , done that. His current associations with democratic party politics are as a reformer not a loyalist.
————————————————————————
ardee,

How did it happen, all of a sudden, that Michael Moore “evolved”? Up till now he was and is a Democratic party loyalist. Yes, he made good educational movies, but all of them to arouse the people against Republican policies and then turned around and supported Democrats who continued the same policies again and again and again.
So, when Michael Moore and the rest of the chronic Partisan Democrats like Paul Krugman, Robert Reich, the Nation People even Obama etc ... talk of “supporting” or “sympathising” with OWS, I look at it as a clever attempt to co-opt OWS and if OWS fell for that bullshitting, it will be the end of OWS.
Talk and the “message” are cheap but what counts is deeds.

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By OzarkMichael, November 23, 2011 at 9:15 am Link to this comment

This apparently is an accusation against conservatives:

“The world is me, for I am the world”.

But in fact it was said by someone who claims to be everyone, who claims to speak for everyone, that is to say… the 99%.

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By Leefeller, November 23, 2011 at 7:03 am Link to this comment

The selfish human

Observing the constant cremation of differing views, ideas and opinions from people whose dogmas are embedded into their DNA with the appearance of constant consistent absolutist certainty,  this intrenched fanatical blindness as a very protruding righteousness appears to ooze from their every corpuscle of being. For some people if not most this is the experience of existence, my observation would support most people.

Right or wrong has nothing, “nothing” to do with truth or facts for human kinds actions show this as time itself, the closed world of the human makes decisions as how they perceive the world and engage with other humans from a meshing of programing over time but mostly during the fomenting time of childhood.

Sadly, reason and rational thinking has a very limited place in the lives for most, this has noting to do with ability, it has to do with a seemingly solipsistic view of the world, more so for some than others. So the following sums it up!

‘The world is me, for I am the world’.

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By David J. Cyr, November 23, 2011 at 5:55 am Link to this comment

Good intentioned people do not reform the Democrat faction of the corporate party. The corporate party’s Democrat faction reforms the good who enter it, effectively redirecting them into service of evil.

Any Democrat who is perceived to have good intentions is a corporate party operative who has successfully deceived the perceivers.

Moore has used his documentarian celebrity to persuade people to vote for corporate party candidates… to persuade exploited workers to vote for greater exploitation; to persuade people opposed to war to vote for more war; to persuade people wanting healthcare for all to vote for mandated higher profits from greater denial of healthcare.

Michael Moore persuades people to false faith-based believe that 21st Century socialist Green Party policies will come from electing more corporate party Democrats. If Moore is morally redeemable, he would be using his celebrity to draw people out of the sociopathic corporate party, rather than pushing them into it.

People who look to the corporate party’s Democrats for solutions are like indigenous people seeking a sustainable “solution” from European explorers; like German Jews seeking a survivor “solution” from Nazis; like Palestinians seeking a statehood “solution” from Zionists.

The young do not have a half-century of human habitable planet time to waste upon the corporate party’s Democrats, who won’t do the good they could when they can.

Voter Consent Wastes Dissent:

http://chenangogreens.org/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=498&Itemid=1

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By ardee, November 23, 2011 at 4:32 am Link to this comment

David J. Cyr, November 22 at 8:59 pm Link to this comment

If Michael Moore actually supported those 10 things he proposes he wouldn’t be a corporate party Democrat operative. Moore whored himself for the “reporting for duty” to wage war “better” Kerry in 2004; and Moore completely debased himself in his most reprehensible support of the Goldman Sachs owned (bankster protecting, Single-Payer rejecting, war powers projecting, climate change neglecting) Obama in 2008.

Ignore the message and kill the messenger is really silly, yet is your modus operandi in fact. Not a word as to an opinion on Moore’s points, only a rehash of where Moore was some years ago.

People ( not you obviously) evolve and grow. Moore has , in my opinion , done that. His current associations with democratic party politics are as a reformer not a loyalist. My own path is different, but , as a Green, I am embarrassed that you share that affiliation.

My thanks to Arabian Sinbad for the posting of those positions of Moore.

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By moonraven, November 23, 2011 at 4:15 am Link to this comment

Grady:

1.  What are your credentials as a documentary filmmaker?  Admittedly I have been out of the US for almost 20 years now, but when I was still there I spent years as a film critic, and also edited a few documentaries, and know just how few are worth looking at.

2.  Why would any gringo want to pay money to see a film about a Native American woman who holds white “America” (sic for misappropriation of the entire hemisphere) in very low regard, spends most of her time in Central Mexico, South America and the Middle East (although right now in Lisboa putting together a project on Pessoa), when they can receive her scorn for free right here in River City (aka Truthdig)?

3.  I hate phones—only use a cell to receive s.o.s. calls from my nephews in Mexico. 

4.  If YOU are for real and sincere you know better than to bother me.

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By David J. Cyr, November 22, 2011 at 8:59 pm Link to this comment

If Michael Moore actually supported those 10 things he proposes he wouldn’t be a corporate party Democrat operative. Moore whored himself for the “reporting for duty” to wage war “better” Kerry in 2004; and Moore completely debased himself in his most reprehensible support of the Goldman Sachs owned (bankster protecting, Single-Payer rejecting, war powers projecting, climate change neglecting) Obama in 2008.

After mightily corporate obediently helping deliver Obama a “historic” popular mandate for a “dumb” war to become “necessary” wars (plural), and for SickCare to get even sicker, Michael Moore then (in an October 31, 2008 Democracy Now! interview) disingenuously said, “I’m hoping he [Obama] breaks his campaign promises.”

Moore has used his documentaries to persuade people to vote for the more devious greater evil Democrats of the corporate party, who dutifully protect all the rot that should be removed and ensure that change for good needed does not occur.

Voter Consent Wastes Dissent:

http://chenangogreens.org/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=498&Itemid=1

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By Arabian Sinbad, November 22, 2011 at 6:26 pm Link to this comment

Michael Moore proposal (Part 3 of 3)

8. Immediately reduce carbon emissions that are destroying the planet and discover ways to live without the oil that will be depleted and gone by the end of this century.

  9. Require corporations with more than 10,000 employees to restructure their board of directors so that 50% of its members are elected by the company’s workers. We can never have a real democracy as long as most people have no say in what happens at the place they spend most of their time: their job. (For any U.S. businesspeople freaking out at this idea because you think workers can’t run a successful company: Germany has a law like this and it has helped to make Germany the world’s leading manufacturing exporter.)

  10. We, the people, must pass three constitutional amendments that will go a long way toward fixing the core problems we now have. These include:

      a) A constitutional amendment that fixes our broken electoral system by 1) completely removing campaign contributions from the political process; 2) requiring all elections to be publicly financed; 3) moving election day to the weekend to increase voter turnout; 4) making all Americans registered voters at the moment of their birth; 5) banning computerized voting and requiring that all elections take place on paper ballots.

      b) A constitutional amendment declaring that corporations are not people and do not have the constitutional rights of citizens. This amendment should also state that the interests of the general public and society must always come before the interests of corporations.

      c) A constitutional amendment that will act as a “second bill of rights” as proposed by President Frankin D. Roosevelt: that every American has a human right to employment, to health care, to a free and full education, to breathe clean air, drink clean water and eat safe food, and to be cared for with dignity and respect in their old age.

Let me know what you think. Occupy Wall Street enjoys the support of millions. It is a movement that cannot be stopped. Become part of it by sharing your thoughts with me or online (at OccupyWallSt.org). Get involved in (or start!) your own local Occupy movement. Make some noise. You don’t have to pitch a tent in lower Manhattan to be an Occupier. You are one just by saying you are. This movement has no singular leader or spokesperson; every participant is a leader in their neighborhood, their school, their place of work. Each of you is a spokesperson to those whom you encounter. There are no dues to pay, no permission to seek in order to create an action.

We are but ten weeks old, yet we have already changed the national conversation. This is our moment, the one we’ve been hoping for, waiting for. If it’s going to happen it has to happen now. Don’t sit this one out. This is the real deal. This is it.

Have a happy Thanksgiving!

Yours,
Michael Moore

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By Arabian Sinbad, November 22, 2011 at 6:24 pm Link to this comment

(Michael Moore proposal, Part 2 of 3)

10 Things We Want
A Proposal for Occupy Wall Street
Submitted by Michael Moore

  1. Eradicate the Bush tax cuts for the rich and institute new taxes on the wealthiest Americans and on corporations, including a tax on all trading on Wall Street (where they currently pay 0%).

  2. Assess a penalty tax on any corporation that moves American jobs to other countries when that company is already making profits in America. Our jobs are the most important national treasure and they cannot be removed from the country simply because someone wants to make more money.

  3. Require that all Americans pay the same Social Security tax on all of their earnings (normally, the middle class pays about 6% of their income to Social Security; someone making $1 million a year pays about 0.6% (or 90% less than the average person). This law would simply make the rich pay what everyone else pays.

  4. Reinstate the Glass-Steagall Act, placing serious regulations on how business is conducted by Wall Street and the banks.

  5. Investigate the Crash of 2008, and bring to justice those who committed any crimes.

  6. Reorder our nation’s spending priorities (including the ending of all foreign wars and their cost of over $2 billion a week). This will re-open libraries, reinstate band and art and civics classes in our schools, fix our roads and bridges and infrastructure, wire the entire country for 21st century internet, and support scientific research that improves our lives.

  7. Join the rest of the free world and create a single-payer, free and universal health care system that covers all Americans all of the time.

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By Arabian Sinbad, November 22, 2011 at 6:20 pm Link to this comment

The following is a concrete, meaningful proposal from Michael Moore that won my full support. It’s worth studying and supporting, instead of the low level of exchanges that has dominated these Truthdig threads lately! (Part one of two)
====================================================
Where Does Occupy Wall Street Go From Here? ...a proposal from Michael Moore

Tuesday, November 22nd, 2011

Friends,

This past weekend I participated in a four-hour meeting of Occupy Wall Street activists whose job it is to come up with the vision and goals of the movement. It was attended by 40+ people and the discussion was both inspiring and invigorating. Here is what we ended up proposing as the movement’s “vision statement” to the General Assembly of Occupy Wall Street:

We Envision: [1] a truly free, democratic, and just society; [2] where we, the people, come together and solve our problems by consensus; [3] where people are encouraged to take personal and collective responsibility and participate in decision making; [4] where we learn to live in harmony and embrace principles of toleration and respect for diversity and the differing views of others; [5] where we secure the civil and human rights of all from violation by tyrannical forces and unjust governments; [6] where political and economic institutions work to benefit all, not just the privileged few; [7] where we provide full and free education to everyone, not merely to get jobs but to grow and flourish as human beings; [8] where we value human needs over monetary gain, to ensure decent standards of living without which effective democracy is impossible; [9] where we work together to protect the global environment to ensure that future generations will have safe and clean air, water and food supplies, and will be able to enjoy the beauty and bounty of nature that past generations have enjoyed.

The next step will be to develop a specific list of goals and demands. As one of the millions of people who are participating in the Occupy Wall Street movement, I would like to respectfully offer my suggestions of what we can all get behind now to wrestle the control of our country out of the hands of the 1% and place it squarely with the 99% majority.

Here is what I will propose to the General Assembly of Occupy Wall Street:

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By GradyLeeHoward, November 22, 2011 at 1:17 pm Link to this comment

Warning: Reported profile is too good to be true.
But in the unlikelihood that it is accurate I’d
like to extend to you the opportunity to be the
subject of a documentary. So many times when I
offer people that opportunity they can’t accept
because they have told some embarrassing whoppers
or are not for real in the first place. In five
years I have had only 6 persons accept my offer who
were telling the truth about their situation and
history. One faker, Anna D., claimed to be a
middleaged thought experiment victim, and had me
driving all around the Grand Canyon trying to find
her desert home. It turned out she was a young
fellow who’d dropped out of UNLV who wanted me to
send him small amounts of money “for expenses.” If
moonraven is for real and sincere, please email
.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) and then we can exchange
numbers and talk on the phone. Foucauldian has
emailed me and linked to a website but has not
contacted me lately. For real? Who knows? We could
every one be provocatures and government agents
toying with one another, not likely, but maybe.
That’s the Internet’s nature.

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By moonraven, November 22, 2011 at 12:01 pm Link to this comment

My laugh for the day:

“By GradyLeeHoward, November 22 at 11:03 am Link to this comment


moon- If you prefer spending your days in a box you
may be a vampire. Solution: Move up to the
Washington State woods and start dating high school
girls. That’s what our popular culture recommends.Get
some puss, not pus. Twin Peaks had it all beat and
now Lynch has a really degenerate album out. If you
keep putting us commoners down we’ll get a cross and
a stake. Go whiten your fangs.”

I WAS a high school girl in Washington State—east of the Cascades, though—not quite as much of a dump as Forks—but that was 50 years ago.  Twin Peaks was such a crashing bore—almost as boring as folks posting silly bits here.  As for you commoners, sorry you weren’t born with the silver bit in your mouth, but we Native Americans haven’t been sleeping on beds of roses the past 500 years either, and I suspect it’s YOUR fault.

Go ahead, et your stake out, as you won’t be seeing any steak in this lumpen lifetime.

Any time you feel lucky.

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By GradyLeeHoward, November 22, 2011 at 11:03 am Link to this comment

moon- If you prefer spending your days in a box you
may be a vampire. Solution: Move up to the
Washington State woods and start dating high school
girls. That’s what our popular culture recommends.Get
some puss, not pus. Twin Peaks had it all beat and
now Lynch has a really degenerate album out. If you
keep putting us commoners down we’ll get a cross and
a stake. Go whiten your fangs.

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By moonraven, November 22, 2011 at 8:58 am Link to this comment

I am strongly inclined to recommend to the editors of this site the time-honored gringo tradition of waterboarding for all those who continue to post without being literate and cut and paste cliches onto our butts as we pass through here.

“Outside the box”?  Oh, please.

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By Leefeller, November 22, 2011 at 8:46 am Link to this comment

Hetro, you caught me running around in one of my Freudian slips, they do tend to be quite drafty you know!

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By heterochromatic, November 22, 2011 at 8:37 am Link to this comment

GradyLee, that’s a swell thought.


  “the very idea of Congress as it exists is
unpopular because People can now see it is a ruse.”

and some People agree with you…..few, but some.

most people still are quite committed to representative democracy however,
and mot of the rest are apathetic.


——” For the most part, the public sees the members of Congress themselves,
rather than a broken political system, as the problem with the institution. A
majority says (52%) that the political system can work fine, it’s the members of
Congress that are the problem; 38% say that most members of Congress have
good intentions, but the political system is broken.”——


http://www.people-press.org/2010/04/18/distrust-discontent-anger-and-
partisan-rancor/

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By heterochromatic, November 22, 2011 at 8:28 am Link to this comment

Lee—- did you mean to type “Puss” or was that a mistake?

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By GradyLeeHoward, November 22, 2011 at 6:31 am Link to this comment

Nope, the very idea of Congress as it exists is
unpopular because People can now see it is a ruse.
In 1858 Abe Lincoln said (attributed) “You can fool
some of the People all the time (T-Party?),all of
the People some of the time (9/11, Iraq War), but
you can’t fool all the People all of the time.
(Jackpot Capitalism)” Until recently it seemed that
electronic media, indoctrinaire education and
psychological intimidation had enabled the few to
continuously fool the many. Several times Congress
has been refilled with different faces and nothing
has improved. So by experience People have overcome
their “lobotomy of desire” to reason that the
injustice is rooted in a pervasive superstructure
more basic than Congress. And that is why many
Occupy thinkers laugh at the idea of elections as a
remedy. Elections now would renew the social
contract with tapeworms. Even People Power fails as
a remedy when We bargain with illegitimate
authorities. (Look at Egypt!) And look how every
administrator in crony capitalist authority demands
a “do over” when caught with pants down. The
University Chancellor who ordered students pepper
sprayed, if she had lived in the time of Lincoln,
would have understood that “The customer is always
right.” People pay great sums of money for a
respite from the rat race in college where under
the direction of intellectual achievers they can
train themselves to think, and just when these
little fledglings are trying their wings, an old
commercial minded witch orders them doused with bug
spray. That is the state of our culture and our
economy. Congress, just like education, is a
defective product. Maybe the Consumer Bureau should
be the paramount branch of government. We’ll decide
that later after the ladybugs dispense with the
vermin.

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, November 22, 2011 at 6:07 am Link to this comment

Hetro states:

“and the only real popularity that the Occupy movement
has is in the main goal of decrying the inordinate
concentration of wealth…”

Well, Hetro, if decrying the inordinate concentration of wealth is all your able to perceive from the Occupy movement, then agyoprop this,...... for some reason you failed to finish the Republican main talking points ‘The Occupys are dirty and should get a bath then go get a job.’

The tents seemed only a first wake up call, an attention notice ‘hear ye…hear ye’ just the introduction to our nations long list of injustices the tip of the iceberg, tents are not even necessary now, maybe OM and you Hetro are a tad myopic and slow in in the uptake department, OM on purpose,.... but what about you?

The 99 percent, the tents as a symbol,  brought out the real ugly of the Republicans, it was like the only thing missing at P.U. during the pedophile news frenzy where tents. Occupy is ringing the broken liberty bell and have fired up the nation and from what I can tel the world. Until two months ago before Occupy, the United States had been steeped in a propagated spittle fest of apathy, withering in its own fertilizer.  No Hetro, the message is many; Look at Ohio, Mississippi and Wisconsin;, not only ‘inordinate wealth’, how about unfairness, injustice and a rigged game? The system is broken, corrupt and needs to be fixed, far as I can tell it needs an enema.  a purging from constipation of Koceh Brothers and cronies, wealth which dose seem to have indolent power where money is speech and the idea inanimate concepts are people.  For me the messages is clear we must get the money out, those of Occupy all Streets have many messages.

I have my main pet peeve right now, which is not yours or Occupy s, ...this is the point. They don’t need no stinking tents!

Rip Van Winkle took some time to catch up after his long nap, (he had no tent)  Occupy has been alive for only two months plus.

Occupy appears to have been a splash of harsh disinfectant; actually reality; on the puss oozing sore known as the good old boys, ....the 1 percent who have their own agenda, which does not entail tents either.

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By ardee, November 22, 2011 at 4:10 am Link to this comment

OzarkMichael, November 21 at 6:25 am Link to this comment

I would like a comparison. It doesnt matter who you are, or how you look at Occupy.

Compare my previous post to ardee’s.

I put effort, creativity, and my best analysis into that post. You might not agree with it, but there is substance there.

This effort is the best example of your delusional belief that the Fox News garbage you post has merit, accuracy or relevance.

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By elisalouisa, November 21, 2011 at 10:48 pm Link to this comment

As to Presidents, I totally agree with you Sodium-Na. FDR for obvious reasons, Eisenhower warned us about the industrial complex and JFK quote, “My father always told me that all business men were sons of bitches but I never believed it
until now.”  Jimmy Carter got himself in hot water at times because he was well intentioned.
Reading The Creature from Jekyll Island by G. Edward Griffin helped me further understand things as they are, not that I fully comprehend all the details of the Federal Reserve and our monetary system. I agree that Global control is impossible to achieve without an agreement amongst the ruling classes. However, that could always be settled with war. The ruling class through monetary control does dictate every human social order in existence.  The Federal Reserve is an important tool toward this end.
Nice to see your post Sodium-Na.  A Happy Thanksgiving to you and your loved ones.

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By Ron S., November 21, 2011 at 8:24 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Amoebic Dissent:

Here’s the deal:  Can’t camp in the parks; lots arrested; authorities are even ?
defying a judge’s ruling that it’s OK to protest in city parks, just not with tents.
OK: Rather than bemoaning what is past and will not be again (camping protests), ?
engage in a paradigm shift.  Organize Flash Mobs at one financial giant after ?
another with signs specific to that institution’s contributions to the economic ?
debacle.  As many people as possible crowd into the ground lobby and just stand ?
- don’t break anything, don’t intimidate or yell at anybody personally, make clear ?
chants about that institution’s behavior - and just stand there until ordered to ?
leave.  Obey the order and just form up on the surrounding sidewalks.  Don’t get ?
into the streets, because that’s obstructing traffic and they’ll bust it up.
Just stand in a mass on the sidewalks and force the corporate minions to thread ?
their way through.  Avoid blocking entrances or garage exits, as that will get you ?
arrested.  No need to do those things, because the movement has gained the ?
attention of the media and any arrest or bad behavior will be magnified by it ?
thousand fold.
Naturally, the authorities will try to stay one jump ahead, but I’m sure there are ?
those tech-savvy amongst the 99%ers that can keep that from being a significant ?
issue.  Switching locations at the last minute might work there, as it takes time for
?a police or prosecutorial entity to change direction and pull out committed ?
resources for redeployment.

What’s needed in addition are a few core principles that can be fitted onto a
placard and incorporated into the chants.  The Tea Partiers took that to the races
and won!

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By heterochromatic, November 21, 2011 at 7:51 pm Link to this comment

Lee—-this group of Congesscritters are unpopular,
not the idea of Congress.

and the only real popularity that the Occupy movement
has is in the main goal of decrying the inordinate
concentration of wealth…

as a practical matter, the occupations and naive idea
that they can maintain campsites and welcome any and
all of the homeless, including the very real and
significant portion of the homeless population that
is violent and/or delusional and/or drunken and
drugged invites approval ratings in this country
comparable to that of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, November 21, 2011 at 7:27 pm Link to this comment

Om stated; ‘I might even support some Occupy grievances, but not their method. I have said that many times.’ Well OM the suspense is killing me, what else might you support?

Hetro, Silly is as silly does! Congress is rated lower then Paris Hilton in popularity, now this seems silly! If I recollect Hilton was at 11 percent! Occupy Wall Street may not be on the same list, but for me they are 99 percent! Silly me!

You know I may agree with some of the grievances sponsored by the Tea Party, but for the life of me, I cannot think of any, guess I just need to watch Fox Unbalance News!

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By OzarkMichael, November 21, 2011 at 6:47 pm Link to this comment

Night Gaunt said: And for the OWS well they are against that and find they have no other avenue open to them but protests.

Thats short of the truth. They arent merely protesting, they are also Occupying. Occupying involves creating confrontations with the police. That involves breaking some rules for the sake of the cause and daring the police to remove them.

Occupy Everywhere is not merely free speech. It is not merely protest. It is a staged confrontation, it puts its toes across the line, it pushes forward and then films the police response.

I have protested for several causes, but I never forced confrontations with the police, never “Occupied”. So there is a difference.

I might even support some Occupy grievances, but not their method. I have said that many times.

But again and again and again you ignore that.  You and the Lefties want to make this an all or none argument; “if a person doesnt completely support the Occupy, then they must be part of the 1%.” That is bullshit and everyone knows it. If you havent noticed, the polls show support for Occupy is free-falling, and you have no one to blame but yourself.

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