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This Country Needs a Few Good Communists

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Posted on May 31, 2010
AP / Elizabeth Dalziel

By Chris Hedges

The witch hunts against communists in the United States were used to silence socialists, anarchists, pacifists and all those who defied the abuses of capitalism. Those “anti-Red” actions were devastating blows to the political health of the country. The communists spoke the language of class war. They understood that Wall Street, along with corporations such as British Petroleum, is the enemy. They offered a broad social vision which allowed even the non-communist left to employ a vocabulary that made sense of the destructive impulses of capitalism. But once the Communist Party, along with other radical movements, was eradicated as a social and political force, once the liberal class took government-imposed loyalty oaths and collaborated in the witch hunts for phantom communist agents, we were robbed of the ability to make sense of our struggle. We became fearful, timid and ineffectual. We lost our voice and became part of the corporate structure we should have been dismantling.

Hope in this age of bankrupt capitalism will come with the return of the language of class conflict. It does not mean we have to agree with Karl Marx, who advocated violence and whose worship of the state as a utopian mechanism led to another form of enslavement of the working class, but we have to speak in the vocabulary Marx employed. We have to grasp, as Marx did, that corporations are not concerned with the common good. They exploit, pollute, impoverish, repress, kill and lie to make money. They throw poor families out of homes, let the uninsured die, wage useless wars to make profits, poison and pollute the ecosystem, slash social assistance programs, gut public education, trash the global economy, loot the U.S. Treasury and crush all popular movements that seek justice for working men and women. They worship only money and power. And, as Marx knew, unfettered capitalism is a revolutionary force that consumes greater and greater numbers of human lives until it finally consumes itself. The nightmare in the Gulf of Mexico is the perfect metaphor for the corporate state. It is the same nightmare seen in postindustrial pockets from the old mill towns in New England to the abandoned steel mills in Ohio. It is a nightmare that Iraqis, Pakistanis and Afghans, mourning their dead, live each day. 

Capitalism was once viewed in America as a system that had to be fought. But capitalism is no longer challenged. And so, even as Wall Street steals billions of taxpayer dollars and the Gulf of Mexico is turned into a toxic swamp, we do not know what to do or say. We decry the excesses of capitalism without demanding a dismantling of the corporate state. The liberal class has a misguided loyalty, illustrated by environmental groups that have refused to excoriate the Obama White House over the ecological catastrophe in the Gulf of Mexico. Liberals bow before a Democratic Party that ignores them and does the bidding of corporations. The reflexive deference to the Democrats by the liberal class is the result of cowardice and fear. It is also the result of an infantile understanding of the mechanisms of power. The divide is not between Republican and Democrat. It is a divide between the corporate state and the citizen. It is a divide between capitalists and workers. And, for all the failings of the communists, they got it. 

Unions, organizations formerly steeped in the doctrine of class warfare and filled with those who sought broad social and political rights for the working class, have been transformed into domesticated partners of the capitalist class. They have been reduced to simple bartering tools. The social demands of unions early in the 20th century that gave the working class weekends off, the right to strike, the eight-hour day and Social Security have been abandoned. Universities, especially in political science and economics departments, parrot the discredited ideology of unregulated capitalism and have no new ideas. Artistic expression, along with most religious worship, is largely self-absorbed narcissism. The Democratic Party and the press have become corporate servants. The loss of radicals within the labor movement, the Democratic Party, the arts, the church and the universities has obliterated one of the most important counterweights to the corporate state. And the purging of those radicals has left us unable to make sense of what is happening to us.

The fear of communism, like the fear of Islamic terrorism, has resulted in the steady suspension of civil liberties, including freedom of speech, habeas corpus and the right to organize, values the liberal class claims to support. It was the orchestration of fear that permitted the capitalist class to ram through the Taft-Hartley Act in 1948 in the name of anti-communism, the most destructive legislative blow to the working class until the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). It was fear that created the Patriot Act, extraordinary rendition, offshore penal colonies where we torture and the endless wars in the Middle East. And it was fear that was used to see us fleeced by Wall Street. If we do not stop being afraid and name our enemy we will continue toward a state of neofeudalism.

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By elisalouisa, June 5, 2010 at 6:46 am Link to this comment

There is no reflection as to the
      possibility that someone else’s
      sweat, suffering and even death
      may have paid for what relative
      comfort he/she enjoys.

   

Not quite true ofersince72. Many BABY BOOMERS were given the goal that
‘money is everything.’ BABY BOOMERS bought into the line fed them by the power/elite and
even parents, namely, success is measured by the amount of money you have stockpiled or the
aura of financial gain one emits. As a result, most now have no use for the yardstick that at
one time was side-by-side with money as to the worth of a person and that is moral integrity
which denotes who one really is. Capitalism is indeed no longer challenged and if truth be
told, it is worshiped. Yes, the BABY BOOMERS did embrace corporate ideals. As Chris Hedges
states, “Liberals do bow before a Democratic Party that ignores them and does the bidding of
corporations” as evidenced by the latest BP debacle. Some feel that if you are financially
comfortable our system works, why complain? There is no reflection as to the possibility
that someone else’s sweat, suffering and even death may have paid for what relative relative
comfort we do enjoy
. Those who do have that reflection strive for a more equitable
system and reject the values that may have been passed down as to money and corporations,
values they were taught on their way to Church/Temple each week. Now, that concept is
bearing fruit, fruit which is bitter. Do not blame the BABY BOOMERS, those seeds were planted
long ago, the chickens have come home to roost and we shall indeed continue toward a state
of neofeudalism if our enemy, disguised as our friend, is not confronted.

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By Shenonymous, June 5, 2010 at 6:39 am Link to this comment

“Scopes” Monkey Trial based on a real trial of a teacher, John
Scopes, who dared to teach Darwinism. It is called the most
famous court case in history.  Scopes was convicted of a violation
of the Butler Act and fined ($100 by the incensed anti-Darwinist
judge instead of the normal $50). The Butler Act made it unlawful,
in any state-school in Tennessee, “to teach any theory that denies
the story of the Divine Creation of man as taught in the Bible, and
to teach instead that man has descended from a lower order of
animals.”

I just bought it as a shop going out of business was having a fantastic
sale.  Sad they are going out of business but they are a casualty of the
electronic age where buying dvds are cheaper and easier to get online. 
Movie Gallery and Blockbuster are closing their stores I heard.  Such is
progress?  Anyway ITW is one of my favorites as well.  Absolutely
riveting.  Scopes loses but the world wins because Darwin’s theories
were not as well known before as they were after.
If interested see: http://www.bryan.edu/802.html
It explains it all.
Also cut/paste into browser:
http://libcom.org/blog/revisiting-scopes-monkey-trial-radio-feature-
12012009

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By Inherit The Wind, June 5, 2010 at 5:02 am Link to this comment

Glagla-Klungly, June 4 at 8:05 pm #

Mr inherit the wind you musted be a saylor guy with the named like that no .i be telled you peoples that the chavez eated the shit backwards is a spy guy and i be catched him kwik . tomoro
************************************************

Why do you think that?  Do you not know Proverbs in the Old Testament?  Do you not know Hollywood movies? “Inherit The Wind” is a Hollywood movie—my favorite.

And it’s not about sailors or the sea.  It’s about a trial in Dayton, Tennessee called the “Monkey Trial”.

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By Money is funny, June 5, 2010 at 2:26 am Link to this comment

I gave all of my books to a book keeper.

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By ofersince72, June 5, 2010 at 12:24 am Link to this comment

Hey, fellow BABY BOOMERS, what haven’t we screwed up???
Don’t say the education system, there are several districts around here that a financing on next years
property taxes, lets see how that works !!!!

What is our legacy ??? I know we have a really, really
screwed up name BABY BOOMERS,  is that our exuse????

Report this

By ofersince72, June 4, 2010 at 11:59 pm Link to this comment

But BABY BOOMERS are really, really good at writing
books !!!! Millions and millions of them !!!!

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By ofersince72, June 4, 2010 at 11:49 pm Link to this comment

I am not talking about their Capitolist, banking
blood wars, blood

I am talking about economic justice, Eugene Debs type
blood.

BABY BOOMERS, threw it all away in just a few years !!!

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By ofersince72, June 4, 2010 at 11:47 pm Link to this comment

BABY BOOMERS

Our parents handed us good jobs, that paid well,
and offered free medical.

a constitution that was still intact
told us how to protest war
and even made the word ecology part of the language
of the sixties.

In just a few decades,  BABY BOOMERS threw everything
away. It took many generations of fighting and blood
to get what we were handed.

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By ofersince72, June 4, 2010 at 11:36 pm Link to this comment

Us BABY BOOMERS know   e v e r y t h i n g !!!!!!

except how to seal a spewing oil well .......

Our parents could get a man on the moon, design
a space shuttle,

we can’t even get a man one mile down in the ocean !!!

BABY BOOMERS.. probably the most self-rightous, haughty
arrogant, indignant generation ever !!! (thats me too)
(pointing it back at myself also)

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By tihsstaezevahc, June 4, 2010 at 8:08 pm Link to this comment

WATCH THE LATEST SPEECH BY HUGO CHAVEZ, VENEZUELA’S PRESIDENT (A MOUNTAIN OF HONESTY AND SINCERITY)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KBvWtnJrgI

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By Tennessee-Socialist, June 4, 2010 at 7:21 pm Link to this comment

WATCH THE LATEST SPEECH BY RAUL CASTRO, CUBA’S PRESIDENT (A MOUNTAIN OF HONESTY AND SINCERITY)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mc_rwp5kUys

.

Report this

By junkie1044, June 4, 2010 at 7:06 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I’d like to see chris hedges somehow stir up some publicity among left wingers by
attacking bill maher.  This is because I personally can’t as comfortably listen to his
shows since I saw a comment Chris Hedges wrote about the figureheads of latent
fascism being laughed at until the day they took over. A thought occurred;
perhaps the reason maher gets away with such a left wing program is that it
relaxes people’s sense of danger about the ‘tea baggers’ (his phrase) and ‘wing
nuts’ by ridiculing and laughter, a kind of emotional opiate for educated liberals.
Thus if it serves any purpose, its the purpose of all the libertarians, or whoever
bill makes fun of, who are waiting to pounce, as it helps them get in under the
radar of people who should take them seriously.

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By Glagla-Klungly, June 4, 2010 at 6:54 pm Link to this comment

Mr spy guy what you be rited .you sayed that you liked the eggs lots .i say egges very goo goo good for make bombaria with the wife .for peoples not understen i meen push push.i
not the choke smooker and i never seed the pig smile in the sky but the pig smile when he say lied .that is true and the holy guy how many timed he be hiding and doing the bombaria and tell you give more money .i sayed lots of funy beaseness with the walrus and the lucy too.but tell it me why you rited this story for me sir.

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By Shenonymous, June 4, 2010 at 5:54 pm Link to this comment

I have to admit I have not seen a funnier skit anywhere.  Even
Leefeller could not top this one. The horse and pony show
with tihsstaezevahc, Glagla-Klungly, and every so
often Sensei ThomasG.  Now if the three of them could
coordinate, orchestrate, with a certain rhythm, such as 1 2 1 2 1 2
ping, 1 2 1 2 1 2 ping, where tihsstaezevahc is 1, Glagla-
Klungly
is 2, and ThomasG is….of course…the ping, we
could have a theme song for Trughdig!

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By Money is funny, June 4, 2010 at 5:54 pm Link to this comment

We will need plenty of weapons and ammo for the revolution. Meet me at the ATM.

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By tihsstaezevahc, June 4, 2010 at 5:53 pm Link to this comment

Glagla-Klungly

I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.
See how they run like pigs from a gun, see how they fly.
I’m crying.

Sitting on a cornflake, waiting for the van to come.
Corporation T-shirt, stupid bloody Tuesday.
Man, you been a naughty boy, you let your face grow long.
I am the eggman, they are the eggmen.
I am the walrus, goo goo g’joob.

Mister City P’liceman sitting
Pretty little p’licemen in a row.
See how they fly like Lucy in the Sky, see how they run.
I’m crying, I’m crying.
I’m crying, I’m crying.

Yellow matter custard, dripping from a dead dog’s eye.
Crabalocker fishwife, pornographic priestess,
Boy, you been a naughty girl you let your knickers down.
I am the eggman, they are the eggmen.
I am the walrus, goo goo g’joob.

Sitting in an English garden waiting for the sun.
If the sun don’t come, you get a tan
From standing in the English rain.
I am the eggman, they are the eggmen.
I am the walrus, goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob.

Expert textpert choking smokers,
Don’t you thing the joker laughs at you?
See how they smile like pigs in a sty,
See how they snied.
I’m crying.

Semolina pilchard, climbing up the Eiffel Tower.
Elementary penguin singing Hari Krishna.
Man, you should have seen them kicking Edgar Allan Poe.
I am the eggman, they are the eggmen.
I am the walrus, goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob.
Goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob g’goo…

Lennon/McCartney

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By tihsstaezevahc, June 4, 2010 at 5:23 pm Link to this comment

Glagla-Klungly

mi no freid uf u wuf wuf. ju noe ol jew espai gais karri mani gons, uzi en kriskol en weson. ae chut ur wuf wuf, hee ded. luk in ur buk jar, si ded wuf wuf? no ded? haahahaha! BU! jas mi. gut ju agen.

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By tihsstaezevahc, June 4, 2010 at 5:11 pm Link to this comment

ThomasG, June 4 at 8:16 pm #

tihsstaezevahc, June 4 at 6:06 pm,

Blah.

Somehow I knew you would agree.

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By Glagla-Klungly, June 4, 2010 at 5:07 pm Link to this comment

Mr spy guy why you rited worsed like me .now i be try to undestend what you be sayed but very harded .maybe you try to make a funned with me but i fix you kwik.you are jew spy fom the olded cuntry and you

now watched me .but i haved big dog and he no bite but my next side howse dog not the same ting .when i here wowowo i ketch you and kwik .hahaha

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By tihsstaezevahc, June 4, 2010 at 4:37 pm Link to this comment

Glagla-Klungly

ju gut mi maean, ju noe eye espai frum ol cuntry. eye uach ju cum goe frum ju haus. loki behain ju, BU! hahaha! gut ju bak agen.

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By ThomasG, June 4, 2010 at 4:16 pm Link to this comment

tihsstaezevahc, June 4 at 6:06 pm,

Blah.

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By Glagla-Klungly, June 4, 2010 at 4:05 pm Link to this comment

Mr inherit the wind you musted be a saylor guy with the named like that no .i be telled you peoples that the chavez eated the shit backwards is a spy guy and i be catched him kwik . tomoro
i go for the fishink for the wally eyed very good to be eated you noe.now i be telled you story but shorts becuz i not rited like you guys .now in the old cuntry the peoples lived with the comunista long time you noeed
so what hapen is the peoples they lived closer togeter becuz the police be alrond .they watched all the peoples so the peoples they talked with the new way .becuz comunista not undestand .i be tell the hedges
sayed same thing with his story .now one more think in the old cuntry peoples haved the money but no can by nothing .now peoples haved everthink but no money.nice day to every peoples.

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By Shenonymous, June 4, 2010 at 3:19 pm Link to this comment

ihsstaezevahc  hahhahahahahah I cannot help but laugh. 
I am a scatologist and totally love your language! Ray! Merci
beaucoup.  I think it will turn out that I too am more socialist
minded than perhaps my new mentor ThomasG thought.
But have no love of either dictators or tyrants who would wouldn’t
blink an eyelid to ursurp any communistic or strong socialistic
government, especially of a huge nation as is the United States, or
Venezuela.  But I am learning from ThomasG by increments
and still thinking for myself, so that has got to be a good thing. 
And I really am grateful he has decided to be patient.  I really am
a good student.

A few hahahahas for ITW too!  Hasn’t it been a bit of a hoot for
days now?  This has turned out to be the best forum in a long time.

Sometimes I wish some of us could raise a beer at a pub or something.
Impossible I know, but even TG should be there!  We are rational
adults aren’t we?  Maybe I am naive?

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By Inherit The Wind, June 4, 2010 at 3:08 pm Link to this comment

ThomasG, June 4 at 2:59 pm #

Shenonymous, June 3 at 11:24 pm,

“Everything tihsstaezevahc says has the ring of truth to it far as my political sentiments go.”

Why do you agree with “tihsstaezevahc”, when the meaning of what his chosen name is “Chavez eats shit” spelled backwards?
************************************

Just as a totally irrelevant aside: How long did it take you to figure this out? 

It took me all of 15 seconds the first time I saw it.

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By Inherit The Wind, June 4, 2010 at 3:05 pm Link to this comment

Glagla-Klungly, June 3 at 4:50 pm #


I was borned in the old cuntry…

*******************************

I know I shouldn’t and it’s sophomoric but I cannot read this without laughing out loud!  Must be my inner “Beavis and Butthead”.

Oh, do I feel guilty….....

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By tihsstaezevahc, June 4, 2010 at 2:06 pm Link to this comment

My very dear friend ThomasG

This Ray. I’m the spokesman for Jay my twin brother.

Jay wants to clarify a few things because Jay realized that most people that post here put themselves into pigeonholes and by thoughtless projection these same people seem to place themselves and others into preconceive pigeonholes they have fabricated for themselves and others. This makes it very difficult for them to think outside preconceived notions. Their world is one of black and white absolutes with no different hues of gray or for that matter yellow, green, blues, etc. By and large Jay has realized that people think and rationalize in terms of black and whites absolutes. Of course you seem to fit this definition and it defies logic why you would put yourself in such a narrow tunnel of thought. As a consequence this leads someone of that mindset, yours in this case, to make all kinds of erroneous conclusion that defy rational analysis and leave you open to ridicule. The teabagger mindset comes to mind as an example.

You conclude that Jay is against socialism which is erroneous. Jay considers himself socialist but Jay does not put himself in a box nor does Jay allow any one individual, or autocratic demagogue as is Mr. Zevahc to define for Jay what socialism is. Mr. Zevahc is not the definition of socialism and it is sad and ignorant for you to think so. Jay could have asked me to just as well come into this board with the handle tihsstaehsub and you may not have been bothered as much. Jay would never show such disrespect to a president of the USA even though in Jay’s personal opinion tihsstaehsub.

Jay guesses that the problem to your comprehension of a mindset such as Jay’s is that Jay renounced heroes and idolization of other human beings in Jay’s early youth. You see heroes shit stinks too. Shit is shit and no matter how much perfume you put on it, it will still stink of shit. Humanly heroes have a habit of disappointing other human beings because Jay doesn’t put anyone above himself for adulation so Jay has renounced heroes and demagogues. Jay does have to add that Jay makes an exception for his wife of 30 years, Jay absolutely adores that woman. She and Jay’s kids are the only ones on earth that Jay can accept, tolerate and forgive their imperfections. It is that mindset that makes logical sense to Jay. To make sense of the world. It is the mindset that helps Jay rationalize reality from an objective perspective. It allows Jay to see everything, anything and anyone with a critical eye without prejudice.

As to democracy Mr. Zevahc does not represent what Jay considers to be democratic principles since Mr. Zevahc rules his country by presidential decrees and an autocratic control over his country that would be the envy of any tin pot dictator which is the way that Mr. Zevahc behaves. He has complete and absolute power in Venezuela.

As to Shenonymous, Jay doesn’t believe that she ever said that she agreed with tihsstaezevahc spelled backwards. Jay believes Shenonymous was agreeing with something else Jay posted which was unrelated to you spelling tihsstaezevahc backwards.

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By ThomasG, June 4, 2010 at 1:47 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, June 4 at 3:51 pm,

“Now let’s not impose the social system of socialism on it since you just made the distinct bifurcation that it is separate from economic systems.  It does indeed appear that unbridled private capitalism has nearly destroyed the US economy.  I want to know
exactly, or some sense of exactly, how social capitalism could work.  I hear you loud and clear that private capitalism is a bad hombre.  Nyet, no good.  Okay!  So if I embraced your idea of social capitalism, what
would it look like?”
—— Shenonymous

As you know, we are already discussing Social Capital on another Truthdig thread, “After Religion Fizzles, We’re Stuck With Nietzsche”.

The Social Capital that was taken away from the native people of America was the land and everything that was on the land and in the land, as rude products; those rude products were used to fuel manufacturing, production, and distribution that has built and maintained the greater part of what we know as 21st Century America.

The Social Capital of the white and black slaves took the form of labor that was used to produce agricultural products.

The Social Capital of the United States as a nation is the U.S. Currency and all of the assets of the U.S. Government.

The Social Capital of the American populace like the white and black slaves is their labor as wage slaves.

With regard to Social Capital and Socialized Capitalism:  Working people would not notice the change from Privatized Capitalism to Socialized Capitalism other than that they would pay far less taxes and that private capitalists would not have nearly as much money to pay legislators to manipulate legislated law and order to serve private interests at the expense of the populace.

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By moonraven, June 4, 2010 at 12:07 pm Link to this comment

Lots of really silly posts and juvenile gringo Chavez bashing here.

Just what was needed.

U.S. out of North America!

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By Shenonymous, June 4, 2010 at 11:51 am Link to this comment

ThomasG, now don’t clutch.  An ID name does not make the
man, or the woman.  It might make for a certain proclivity but
often it can be deceptive.  Even a subterfuge.  In Russian, volya
naroda means power of the people.  Since democracy derives from
the Greek words, demos (people) and kratos (power) people power,
it seems that inherent in the word democracy is the notion of
socialism.  There are three kinds of democracy, and some
subspecies as well, which I don’t think I have to tell you, as
you most likely know more about it than I do, but nevertheless as
a brief reminder there is direct, representative, and consensus
democracies.  Direct democracy is the purist form; the sovereignty
of power resides in the collective of all the citizens who choose to
participate.  Representative democracy works on the principle that
elected persons represent the people.  Consensus democracy is
applied by consensus decision-making through the process of
legislation, taking in as broad a range of opinions as possible. This
latter form is in opposition to systems where the power of the few
can be ignored by the power of the many.  Each of these models
has their embodiment in governments that exist in the world today. 

I begin to understand your distinction between capitalism and
socialism.  I think at this point in my ignorance, you have a point in
promoting a more productive economic system that adjusts capitalism
to be less private.  Now let’s not impose the social system of socialism
on it since you just made the distinct bifurcation that it is separate
from economic systems.  It does indeed appear that unbridled private
capitalism has nearly destroyed the US economy.  I want to know
exactly, or some sense of exactly, how social capitalism could work.  I
hear you loud and clear that private capitalism is a bad hombre.  Nyet,
no good.  Okay!  So if I embraced your idea of social capitalism, what
would it look like?  Are we doing better?  Are you now using the word
socialism in an economic way?

Now you know I am not a big fan of Hugo and I’ve got into trouble on
Truthdig before about it on a couple of other forums I mean big as in
really BIG trouble (as you also know I am the thorny She, called all
kinds of names, but as the Shepotamus, I weather it well enough).  I
haven’t been persuaded to change my mind about Chavez.

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By ThomasG, June 4, 2010 at 11:22 am Link to this comment

Mestizo Warrior, June 3 at 7:19 pm,

Capitalism is an economic system and socialism is a social system; therefore, your comparison of capitalism with socialism is a false comparison.

As an economic system, capitalism can be implemented, as a matter of choice, with private capital or social capital.

Rather than to be against capitalism, as a generic term; wouldn’t it be more productive to be against privatized capitalism that has destroyed the U.S. Economy, and to be for democracy, a form of socialism, that could implement social capital and social capitalism that would put capitalism to work for community benefit, socialism, rather than the greed of private benefit that cyclically causes the collapse of privatized capitalism?

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By ThomasG, June 4, 2010 at 11:11 am Link to this comment

tihsstaezevahc, June 3 at 7:54 pm,

“But the path is not violence, the path is democracy.”  —— tihsstaezevahc

“the path is democracy”, you say, and democracy is a form of socialism.

If you are against socialism and apparently you are, because the name you are using on this blog, “Chavez eats shit”, spelled backwards is a direct attack upon socialism.  How is it that at the same time you say that you are in support of democracy, “the path is democracy”?

And, more importantly, why is Shenonymous agreeing with you when you say “Chavez eats shit”?

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By ThomasG, June 4, 2010 at 10:59 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous, June 3 at 11:24 pm,

“Everything tihsstaezevahc says has the ring of truth to it far as my political sentiments go.”

Why do you agree with “tihsstaezevahc”, when the meaning of what his chosen name is “Chavez eats shit” spelled backwards?

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By ThomasG, June 4, 2010 at 10:56 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous, June 3 at 2:46 am


”, ... a duly elected representative
government that is what democracy is about.”
—— Shenonymous

” ....I am as much against communism as I am against Republican Conservatism ....” ——Shenonymous  

“For even the most benign form of communism inherently has oppression built into its sinews.  Freedom is not in its vocabulary.” —— Shenonymous

Socialism, democracy, and communism are greater and lesser forms of the same social system,——are you for or against democracy as a social system?  And, if you are for democracy as a social system, why are you for a moderate form of socialism contrary to socialism and communism as social systems?  And,  why do you feel that privatized capitalism is compatible with democracy as a social system, but social capital and socialized capitalism is not compatible with democracy as a social system?

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By Shenonymous, June 4, 2010 at 9:50 am Link to this comment

There are a couple of remedies for despair.  Jump off a bridge,
take a couple of draughts of tequila making sure the worm was
really there there, smoke pot (an old 70s remedy but soon to be
legalized everywhere), submerge the self in prayer, or leave Truthdig
to the stupid.  You don’t appear to be dating material anyway.  Too
cranky and a man of too fue wordz!  Play-dating?  How ridiculous. 
Well I do know of one stalker but only one.  LOL

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By ThomasG, June 4, 2010 at 9:09 am Link to this comment

Anarcissie, June 3 at 3:30 pm,

“Any business owned and controlled by those who work for it is socialist (my definition).”  I agree with your definition.

Which would you prefer, that Social Capital be used in support of Socialist Manufacturing, production and commerce, or in support of Privatized Manufacturing, production and commerce, as was done after the September 18, 2008 Collapse of the U.S. Economy?

What do you think about selling off, outsourcing and off shoring manufacturing capital of a real economy, as was enabled by the Reagan Administration and successive Right-Wing EXTREMIST governments, to create a False Financial Economy that operates on financial transactions, rather than REAL transactions produced by manufacturing, production, and commerce trafficking in real objective commodities, a Financialized Economy that is used to drive up the GNP and allow monetary expansion of a False Economy to provide money to drive a Mercantile Economy based upon cheap Asian imports, as was done by the Supply Side Right-Wing Republicans and the Right-Wingers that replaced the Reaganites, and which eventually and inexorably led to the September 18, 2008 collapse of the U.S. Economy?

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By Gregory Lynn Kruse, June 4, 2010 at 5:31 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The more profound the article, the stupider the comments.  As if the article itself was not depressing enough, the senseless play-dating in the comments only drives me closer to despair.

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By Shenonymous, June 3, 2010 at 7:24 pm Link to this comment

A bonafide realist!  I am bowled over.  The only way direct
democracy works is from the bottom up.  At the local level. 
At the local level any number of parties can be involved.  I do not
appreciate communism but Bernie Sanders does not seem to be doing
so badly. Everything tihsstaezevahc says has the ring of truth to
it far as my political sentiments go.  That has been my consistent
position since I first became a truthdigger years ago.  I abhor violence
and was shocked at the call for violent sedition by the communists who
showed up recently on Truthdig.

At the moment we do not have one politician who can really speak
honestly for The American Population.  There are a lot of pretenders. 
Dennis Kucinich was a voice but his assistance to get the health bill
passed sent him to the political gallows.  Unfortunate since his voice
was loud and clear.  Maybe not electable as POTUS, but certainly could
be a major force in other departments of government.  There is no one
on the left, except Obama who has the gift of speech and so far we
don’t seem to be very happy with his actions.  It is too soon to know, I
think.  He has been dealing with a banquet of horrors served not so
much by the previous administration though they have their culpability
but some of the problems Obama faces extend back farther than eight
years ago.  It has been the unending obstacles that the Republican
party has presented. 

I believe some obstacles ought to be put into the process.  IT is
healthy. It forces either side, who ever is in power, to watch their Ps
and Qs.  But the Republican bulldozer effect has had one track, to tear
down Obama.  Mow his every intention to do something for the people.
The spokespersons for the Republican party has been the most
divisively grotesque and degrading that the generations that exist
simultaneously today has never heard before.  It must be stopped but
stopped by more eloquent speakers on the Democratic side. The
Republicans never accept the fact that they lost the election.  But now it
is possible they at least will win a good number of seats in Congress
again in November.  Such are the whims and vicissitudes of politics.
As it is I don’t want to hear any of the voices that are in
Washington, except Obama is always interesting.  I am tired of the
same old politicians in Washington, tired of their repetitive invocations.

Their refrain is dull and the so called progressives are boring.  There
needs to be younger blood and more expressed democratic idealism. 
There has to be more men of action.  More men/women who can speak
loud, clear, and strong.  I believe in the two party system at the federal
level, but a third party that can assemble enough people to make a
difference ought to be available as an option.  I also advocate
representative democracy because direct democracy does not work at
the national level because it cannot.  This country is too big and
elections would be pandemonium.  Elections would be a nightmare and
impossible to keep track.  Corruption would be more than possible. 
And dog eat dog would prevail.

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By tihsstaezevahc, June 3, 2010 at 7:20 pm Link to this comment

ofersince72,

Jays twin brother, clone.

How do you propose that America achieve those ends
that you profess tooo.

Step 1: Term limits.

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By Leefeller, June 3, 2010 at 7:13 pm Link to this comment

Not only is Obama Jewish, he is a Muslim jew and not even a citizen of our USA, I want to see Obama’s birth certificate again for the zillionth time,  this time the real one.

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By ofersince72, June 3, 2010 at 6:24 pm Link to this comment

Jays twin brother, clone.

How do you propose that America achieve those ends
that you profess tooo.

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By Fat Freddy, June 3, 2010 at 5:09 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous

Equating anarchism with the idea of primitivism is also often mistakenly
done,

Yes. One is anarcho-capitalism, see: Murray Rothbard, the other is anarcho-primitivism, see: John and Ramona Africa.

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By tihsstaezevahc, June 3, 2010 at 3:54 pm Link to this comment

My main beef with the wanna be Marxists is that they have to have idolization for individuals that were pretty rotten human beings. These heroes that are worshiped by the wanna be Marxists were and are monsters. Homicidal sociopaths that lure good intentioned people with the wine of Utopianism. Like serial killers such as Jeffrey Dahmer that lure young kids to his house with candy and ice cream to later murder them, slice them up, freeze them, cook them and then devour them. Then as in the mass graves of totalitarianism bury them in his back yard.

Most of those here who demonstrate that adulation for extremism of the right or left have never experienced the humiliation of having personal freedoms violated. Of being denied the insignificant personal freedoms we take for granted. Like going into a store to purchase necessities. I would imagine that it is the same feeling that a woman feels when she is raped. Most of us can sit behind our keyboards talking about platitudes of ideology without the faintest idea of the human cost of the violent path. 

Sure I know there are a lot of things wrong with American society, it’s government, it’s economic injustice and I don’t pretend to defend it. But the path is not violence, the path is democracy. The oligarchs have put the power of change in our hands through the ballot box and as long as they keep us divided they are winning. 

I do not advocate violence at all for political change. I’m a pacifist. The mindset on the extreme left advocates violence for political change and the extreme right advocates violence to maintain the status quo. In the case where the extreme left is in power violence is used to maintain the status quo and the extreme right seeks change through violent means.

I believe that violent change is not permanent change. So violence for political change must not be an option. I believe in democracy from the bottom up.

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By ofersince72, June 3, 2010 at 3:40 pm Link to this comment

“The Word Processor Is Mightier Than The Particle Beam
  Weapon.”


  from my shrink,,, G. Carlin

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By Shenonymous, June 3, 2010 at 3:23 pm Link to this comment

RenZo, we all have known what tihsstaezevahc spells backwards
since the first time he posted!  We were all wondering who would
be the first to spell it frontwards on the forum.  You win!  I was
going to post a mirror but couldn’t figure out how to do it!  haha
hahaha…  He’s clever isn’t he?  And he’s got a few of the bare-knuckled
ones’ numbers wired.  I like his humor too.  I was trying to figure out if
Glagla-Klungly was already spelled backwards but it didn’t make any
sense.  Maybe it’s an anagram?  He’s funny too.  We need lots of humor
especially on this forum.  It is downright funereal.

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By Mestizo Warrior, June 3, 2010 at 3:19 pm Link to this comment

Chris, you are correct. Today the so-called left whines and crys about the evils of big business, but fears to even use the word CAPITALISM! Let’s call it like it is! Capitalism isn’t benefitting the working class. It never has and it never will!

I will not get into idiotic debates about the weakeneses of socialism, or communism. The fact is this country has had plenty of weakenesses and now the crisis in capitalism is costing all of us!

Organized labor in this country will not admit that capitalism is the basis for it’s problems. The civil rights organizations instead of taking on the evils of capitalism choose to kow tow to the corporations and accept donations! Is it any wonder the left is so damned impotent in the U.S.?

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By tihsstaezevahc, June 3, 2010 at 3:18 pm Link to this comment

RenZo, June 3 at 6:46 pm #

I can spell “ChavezEatsShit” backwards. Can you?

Sir, you blew my cover. Mr. Glagla-Klungly will now know that I am spy for sure.

Now I know how Valerie Plame felt.

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By tihsstaezevahc, June 3, 2010 at 3:13 pm Link to this comment

Meeste. RenZo,

Quote:
By the way, Mr Glagla is not a foreign speaker, but a native english speaker distorting our language deliberately in patterns that are not typical of any other language group I know (and I know a lot). He’s faking the “accent”.

Prisaisli mai poent.

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By RenZo, June 3, 2010 at 3:01 pm Link to this comment

Fat Freddy is arguing about a very narrow concept of “marxism”. No one such narrow definition exists anymore. A marxist might be simply one who sees history as the struggle for control of the material goods necessary for life (food, shelter, water, safety, etc).  Of course, Mao was also a marxist in a certain sense, as was Lenin, Trotsky, Ceausescu, and Chavez, but their politics ideals and methods seem different and particular (to me). Anarcissie, more to my style of thinking, accommodates to fluid thinking, and in doing so convinces her readers that she is not merely trying to win a debate, but somehow (rare in this american political climate) believes in something other than her own inherent right to profit and wealth.
===
By the way, Mr Glagla is not a foreign speaker, but a native english speaker distorting our language deliberately in patterns that are not typical of any other language group I know (and I know a lot). He’s faking the “accent”.

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By RenZo, June 3, 2010 at 2:46 pm Link to this comment

I can spell “ChavezEatsShit” backwards. Can you? Such pranksters, and on a political blog discussing such important matters as communism, americanism and the meaning of life….

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By Glagla-Klungly, June 3, 2010 at 2:37 pm Link to this comment

Mr spy guy you laff at my englishes and i no like becuz i tri to make joked to maked the frend and you laffed some mor at me why .i reed your story and you no like mr hedges becuz he talked abowt marx.now i tell you marx is very olded but the peoples stilled reed his parol why becuz the churc still play to big with the money and they are like the mafia for the taxes but you tink that the capitalistas is bettor with the money .you haved lots of scool sir and laff
at me if you liked but i try to learnen somethink .
thank you sir .now your turen.

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By Fat Freddy, June 3, 2010 at 2:12 pm Link to this comment

Anarcissie,

A printing plant owned by the people who work at it is a socialist printing plant and one owned by capitalists is a capitalist printing plant.

You misunderstood. I was referring to a money printing press. Get it? wink

There are naturally occurring business cycles.  Let’s say I harvest fruit from a group a trees for a small community. I start out by picking the fruit that can be easily reached from the ground. At some point, that fruit will run out. Then, I must stop production in order to build a ladder to reach the higher fruit. The time spent constructing the ladder, is time taken away from production. Businesses go through periods of expansion, and savings. The use of credit, or leveraging of assets, can be used in place of savings and reinvestment of profits. What determines the ratio of savings to credit? Interest rates, availability of credit, and inflation. If interest rates are low, and inflation is high, I can borrow long term and pay today’s loan with tomorrow’s lower value money. If interest rates are high, and inflation is near zero, I would be inclined to save money, earn interest on it, and match part of it with a short term loan. Which scenario benefits the lender the most? There is a big difference between business and finance. Yes, banks are businesses, but only in the sense that they seek to earn a profit. Too many banks and investment firms are nothing more than rent seekers that contribute very little to society or to the production of wealth and capital. Fractional reserve banking contributes to, and facilitates rent seeking.

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By Shenonymous, June 3, 2010 at 2:10 pm Link to this comment

M’thinks it is the twin bothers playing yokes on each other!  What a
hoot.

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By tihsstaezevahc, June 3, 2010 at 2:03 pm Link to this comment

Mr. Glagla-Klungly,

i telue sumting 2. i no ker wer ju forom. eat no inportent tu mi. i frum ol cuntry tu. no maka fon uf ma beeg nos. me beeg spy guy. looka bihain ju.
haha gut ju bak .

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By Glagla-Klungly, June 3, 2010 at 1:49 pm Link to this comment

Mr tihssteazevac i tell you somethink why is importent for you ware i comed from i never asked who you are .but you havet big noze no.maybe i lived closed to you open the door and looked arounded. haha got you
spy guy.

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By Leefeller, June 3, 2010 at 1:45 pm Link to this comment

Thum times I write with a lipth, thumtimes it only popth up when I talk about it. I think my other grandmother wath Ththelian!

I think Glagla-Klungly, may be one of thoth theeIA molth, he theems thmart enough!

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By MarthaA, June 3, 2010 at 1:24 pm Link to this comment

christian96, June 3 at 12:33 am,

The same one he used when he was in mortal body on earth.  God doesn’t change.

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By tihsstaezevahc, June 3, 2010 at 1:23 pm Link to this comment

Glagla-Klungly

Your accent is to semantically perfect for it to be real.

Tel as wut ol kuntry r u frum?

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By tihsstaezevahc, June 3, 2010 at 1:04 pm Link to this comment

Hahahaha, hohoho, huhuhuhu!

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By Glagla-Klungly, June 3, 2010 at 12:50 pm Link to this comment

Mr tihsstaezecvac i don noe what kind of named you haved but you try maked the story with me .with a named like that maybe you hide somethink like spy guy.you noe i geted the shit lots in the life sometime is
good .the shit i mean you noe every buddy learned from the shit so may be i call you alfabet guy with named like that becuz the othar named too lonk for noting.stil i say good day to you sir

shenonymous i borned in the old cuntry thank you madam thank you for asked.

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By tihsstaezevahc, June 3, 2010 at 11:40 am Link to this comment

No, better yet Glagla-Klungly English is probably a facade. Is he playing with us?

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By tihsstaezevahc, June 3, 2010 at 11:34 am Link to this comment

Tennessee,

Ray here. Jay’s twin.

Jay says that he suspects that you’re really a computer or some kind of humanoid automaton with no mind of your own. Programmed like robot auto-responder to just Copy & Paste articles from other authors that nobody reads, Copy & Paste links of other websites that nobody opens and to quote others that think for you. Wait! you’re programmed, you can’t think.

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By Anarcissie, June 3, 2010 at 11:30 am Link to this comment

Fat Freddy—You’ve got a lot of questions there.  The best book I have seen about socialism is Michael Harrington’s aptly named Socialism.  It is, of course, out of print, but there are a lot of second-hand copies around.  It gives a good overview of the different threads that make up the socialist idea.

You are correct in saying that some socialists believed that the way to achieve socialism was to get control of the central government, either by force or trickery or through elections and other legal procedures, and then impose it as a characteristic of the state.  Others thought this was a really, really bad idea.  As it turned out the result of the socialism-through-government effort was fascism.

I don’t think fascism has to be overtly violent, although since it implies a kind of state it has to participate in the intrinsic violence of the state.  As Mussolini wrote, it is simply the absorption of all social life into the state, and the abolition of private life.  Here in the United States we are gradually achieving fascism through elections, legislation, and other orderly means, often cheered on by people who proudly call themselves progressives.  I don’t know how far towards true totalitarianism we will go, but thus far the march has been steady and unswerving.

As to some of your other questions:  Any business owned and controlled by those who work for it is socialist (my definition).  A printing plant owned by the people who work at it is a socialist printing plant and one owned by capitalists is a capitalist printing plant.  The nature of their ownership might affect what each chose to print, although most likely they would both busy themselves mostly with producing flyers for pizza parlors or, if large enough, nurse novels.  One does have to stay in business regardless of one’s political coloration.

Boom/bust cycles are observed in all kinds of economies.  The basic form is that some process seems profitable at a certain level of investment, so the investment is increased.  There is a time lapse between the investment and the profit, so the investors do not get immediate feedback, and they overinvest at a point when some law of diminishing returns is kicking in.  For instance, hunter-gatherers find a valley where there is a lot of game, so more of them move there, until finally the supply of game is exhausted; but others still move in because of its repute.  Everyone starves.

Fractional reserve banking and other forms of credit greatly facilitate economic activity.  However, with great frequency, they will be overused, because the desire to get more stuff (and buy off the less successful with more spare goodies) will outweigh prudence and moderation.  Therefore, there will be periodic crashes.  When Keynesian or other damping procedures are used to try to flatten out the cycles, the more enthusiastic investors simply take greater risks or invent more improbable money instruments.  In any case, a government which begins by practicing Keynesianism will be under great political pressure to amplify the boom side of the cycle instead of restraining it, an excellent example being the U.S. in recent decades.

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By tihsstaezevahc, June 3, 2010 at 11:24 am Link to this comment

I have my suspicion that Glagla-Klungly is a montage.

His broken English is perfect. smile

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By Tennessee-Socialist, June 3, 2010 at 11:11 am Link to this comment

By Peter Knopfler, June 3 at 1:39 am #

Hello my friend, you are real awake and smart, and humble. By humble i mean that you accept the great writtings of Howard Zinn, Noam Chomsky, Dr. Michael Parenti, and other great intellectuals who have written about the truth of US History, US Founding Fathers, and the truth of the US Oligarchic Economic System since 1776 until today 2010.  And not what people are taught in schools that USA was a republican social egalitarian democracy from 1776 until 2001 (9-11).

Thats what many people in the USA think. Many americans think that USA only has 9 years of oligarchic military imperialism, and that prior to Bush taking power in 2000, the USA was an egalitarian social democracy

Here is a good link with great audio speeches in MP3 about the truth of US History and political system:

Go to this link of Michael Parenti where he talks about US founding fathers:

http://www.takeoverworld.info/parenti_talks.html <—Go to this link to download speeches on MP3s by Dr. Michael Parenti about the real truth of US founding Fathers, US History and US Imperialism and that in 1776 USA was founded by oligarchs and bankers as an oligarchic-empire and not as a beacon of liberty, freedom and social egalitarian democracy as people are taught in schools


.

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By Shenonymous, June 3, 2010 at 10:56 am Link to this comment

I am curiously interested Glagla-Klungly from where are
you writing, what country?  I am sorry your English is not so
good, but many Americans do not have a command of the
language either.  That does not bother me so much except it
interferes some with what I can grasp of what you say.  You
appear to have an interest in this forum, and I find that
commendable.  Widening one’s knowledge can only be a good
thing. 

There are a great many posters on these forums who are articulate and
have keen insights.  We have a broad range of points of view.  We are
not all the same.  You should not call me sir, as I am a woman.  Ask
questions and many will show up to answer them, or give opinions and
we will read them and assess them, and often make comments about
them.  That is what we do here.  Have a good day yourself Glagla
Klungly.

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By Glagla-Klungly, June 3, 2010 at 10:29 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous thank you vey mush for super big leter sir.you asked me to reed lots new book i will try it but firs i try to reed your leter first becuz you have lots of informayion.you say you not liked
big police me same thing you say we need goverment me same think.but peoples always look for better goverment no something like help poor peoples 2.but you noe some farmer live on land qwiet and not
bother no 1 and not need to mush help and lived good .you very smart sir and liked the big city yes,that ok 2 you noe have a good day sir.

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By Anarcissie, June 3, 2010 at 10:14 am Link to this comment

Fat Freddy, June 3 at 12:49 pm:

‘... I would define Capitalism as the free exchange of goods and services. ...’

Then why mention capital?

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By Fat Freddy, June 3, 2010 at 10:04 am Link to this comment

Anarcissie

Are you saying that Socialism does not have a centrally planned economy? If not, then who controls the economy? If the workers own the means of production, do they not also own the printing presses? Would that not constitute a centrally planned economy? The definition of Socialism also includes control of the means of production by the government. I find that in every definition I’ve ever come across. Fascism implies a brutal totalitarian dictatorship. Fascism without the dictatorship, as in the case of the New Deal, is Corporatism, which is a mixed economy. Keynes may not have been Fascist, Socialist or Corporatist, but Keynes himself would not be a Keynesian by today’s definition.

And what do you mean by boom/bust cycles? It is fractional reserve banking and government manipulation of the currency, that is responsible for boom/bust cycles.

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By radson, June 3, 2010 at 10:00 am Link to this comment

All this talk about changing the political system is based on modifying or tweaking the existing system and or past philosophies which in turn will not change very much.Throughout history all the useless and
destructive wars that occurred was always due to money which is referred to as business today-business as usual.Even after the parades and all the charades were over ,what has it ever amounted to ,what has it
changed? not a hell of a lot .The system resorts to rebuilding ,reconstruction ,redistribution and of the big new plans-Marshall- being the most prominent one and also not to be forgotten are the’ Lines’ that are
designed to divide and conquer countries ,usually the losers in order to maintain and promote the continuation of animosity and hatred that the war apparently ended ,therefore creating more tensions and
conflicts and wars in order to feed the ‘business as usual’ doctrine and promote further growth through destruction.Sounds all too familiar doesn’t it ,well maybe all you seekers of noble change should concentrate
on what makes the Status Quo function which in itself is dysfunctional .This mind set which is entrenched in the masses is very difficult to dislodge because of the constant exposure that the brain is bombarded
with by the system which strives to support or feed itself through very effective propaganda.Friedman and his Chicago boys have the clean slate theory to exploit countries and the indigenous peoples in order to
expand business,something the Politicians call Progress with all the gusto that they could muster and the sheeple believe them.Well if there is any hope to counter this madness it lies within the children ,why
because the children are born with a clean slate and they are the most readily adaptable to their surroundings with an uncanny instinct.

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By Shenonymous, June 3, 2010 at 9:14 am Link to this comment

Sir Glagla-Klungly it seems you think as incompetently as you
write.  I did not say I wanted a big police, actually that was
christian96’s idea.  Do try to read English better.  Fat Freddy does fine
without my help, I just happen to agree with him on some things. 
Belief is a freedom here in the United States. Or maybe you didn’t know
that?  Do I care if you, or anyone ‘likes’ my ideas?  Not in the least. 

And I don’t really care about the chaos that is usually and mistakenly
attached to the notion of anarchy.  That kind of thing is really the
psychology of the mindless mob and that is not what anarchists are,
mindless.  There is a resident anarchist on this website who does not
advocate chaos ever.  Least I’ve never seen it.  I may be mistaken.  The
Italian anarchist Luigi Fabbri said, ”[These (anarchists) are] persons
who are not repelled by the absurd, but who, on the contrary, engage
in it. They are attracted to projects and ideas precisely because they are
absurd; and so anarchism comes to be known precisely for the illogical
character and ridiculousness which ignorance and bourgeois calumny
have attributed to anarchist doctrines.”
  I refer you to Bourgeois
Influences on Anarchism
, by Luigi Fabbri. Tucson, AZ: See Sharp
Press, 2001, p. 16.

Equating anarchism with the idea of primitivism is also often mistakenly
done, but ersatz religious ‘mystics’ (political ones also) have done this
in an attempt to defuse the essence of anarchism which is “freedom to.”
“Freedom to” do most anything that does not prevent others’ doings.  If
you are the quarry for belief in what the mystic is preaching a
missionary’s system of belief then you are not to have any freedom. 
The same goes for communism and fascism, and actually religions. 
Some socialism that hybridizes with democracy but allows for regulated
capitalism would be a more free but self-controlled society. 

Some think that the ideal post-Marxist revolutionary communist world
would be a state of democratic government by anarchy. Many others
think that it is an absurdity, but if the vast majority of the population
agreed to have such a society in which everyone would return either to
a pre-revolution job or to a different job of social worth, to not be paid
for their work, and only to take from the resources created through this
work what they needed to live without need or want of the essentials to
survive, then there wouldn’t be any need for a government of any kind
once society was back on its feet.  Oh sure!

If everybody agrees to lack of government then the state of anarchy has
been reached democratically and as the people are conducting their
own lives, and thereby governing themselves, this would still effectively
be a form of government in the absence of a governmental body.  Now
just how realistic is this?  Not in the least.  Which is what motivated
chrsitian96 to raise a cry about the state of the world.

Yes, christian96, you see the problem clearly.  Solutions in reality are
not so easy as thinking them.  I still see your answer as a quasi Big
Brother enforcement.  That is truly scary, and upon reflection, don’t you
too?

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By Leefeller, June 3, 2010 at 8:54 am Link to this comment

Comprehension usually absent, one sees the constant sea of ignorance making the oil spill seem quite tiny.

Hedges poking his weekly stick into a barrel of snakes, he really gets those baby rattlers going.

Yeah our government sucks, so lets purge it with a grand enema and come up with a few good Communists agenda.  Why I ask, would that not suck also?

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By christian96, June 3, 2010 at 8:50 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous—-I’m not sure how the system could be
designed.  Perhaps you would have to do an experiment
with just one state in America.  It is obvious that
people refuse to control themselves.  Perhaps, it
will have to be some type of “big brother/sister”
system.  China hired people to travel around villages
to make sure people were following the “one child”
policy in an attempt to control their population
growth.  Some people own numerous houses and cars
for example.  The experimental state could put a
limit on the number of houses and cars a person can
own.  I’m just tossing ideas out.  I see problems
and try to imagine how to fix the problems.  For
example, BP is having problems trying to “plug”
the pipeline.  Instead of “plugging” it why not
place a larger pipe over the leaking one and direct
the oil into tankers thus saving the oil and the
environment.

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By Fat Freddy, June 3, 2010 at 8:49 am Link to this comment

RenZo

Technically, the US, and practically, if not all, other industrialized nations are a “mixed” economy. Meaning they combine elements of Socialism, Mercantilism and Capitalism, to varying different flavors. I don’t think either pure Socialism or pure anarcho-Capitalism has ever existed in the history of civilization.

I would define Capitalism as the free exchange of goods and services. Emphasis to be placed on private property rights, private contract, and sound commodity based money, as opposed to elastic currency issued by government fiat. With limited interference from the government except in cases of fraud, abuse, and contractual disputes. Intellectual property rights would, most likely, not be supported by a free market. This is an ongoing debate amongst right Libertarians.

Mercantilism is basically obsolete, except for the concept of protectionism.

Socialism, broadly defined as an economic theory, is the interference of government, labor unions and/or trade organizations in the free market to produce specific economic outcomes. These being, but not limited to, control of the supply, cost, and value of the currency, price and wage controls, and industry specific subsidies, such as agricultural, as a means to control commodity prices. I would also consider any government owned, for-profit enterprises, including public/private joint ventures to be Socialist. I understand this is a very broad definition. I believe that some social welfare programs could by sustained in a free market that are run by the government, but ultimately it would be more desirable and beneficial for them to be operated as private charities.

The current economic crisis, I would define, as a freezing of the RMBS and CDO markets (buyers and sellers can not agree on a price), extreme overleveraging by consumers, businesses and financial institutions, and relatively high and sustained unemployment, along with little of no growth in real production in the private sector, oh and extremely low personal savings rates. But this is really the tip of the iceberg. Once hyperinflation sets in, and/or the dollar crashes, we’re all really, really screwed.

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By Anarcissie, June 3, 2010 at 8:31 am Link to this comment

nemesis2010, June 2 at 3:31 pm:
’... In an earlier post I asked 10 questions. They were directed to rfidler—TD’s resident and self-proclaimed conservative—but he has yet to respond. ...’

I had already pointed out to rfidler that you can’t have producers with consumers, that is, production without consumption.  He may have gone off to think about that puzzle.  There is a whole academic thing about ‘producerist’ ideology which parallels the ‘workerist’ ideology of some forms of Marxism.  I guess they are atavisms of tribal conflict.

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By Glagla-Klungly, June 3, 2010 at 8:19 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous you talked like you want the big police to be eveyware that is somethink like comunista rusia
and how many jailed you be make for the peoples that
no liked your idea.you now amerika they be tried some think with the bush guy but that no work only
war and lots of stupid story for the peoples.that
guy fat freddy maybe and you be good for more new
idea so have a good day sir.

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By Anarcissie, June 3, 2010 at 8:17 am Link to this comment

Fat Freddy, June 3 at 11:29 am:

By Anarcissie, June 2 at 12:20 pm #
  “Keyensianism is not remotely socialist.  Socialism is the ownership and control of the means of production by the workers.”

I disagree. The foundation of Socialism (and fascism or corporatism, for that matter) is a centrally planned economy, regardless of who owns the means of production, which is what Keynesianism is. ...’

It’s a free country and you can use words as you please.  However, I’ll just point out that “a centrally planned economy” is the meaning of fascism, not socialism.  If you insist on using socialism for this concept, then you will have two words for “a centrally planned economy” and no word for “the ownership and control of the means of production by the workers” which is an entirely different concept.  It may be you find that outcome neutral or desirable—if you can’t say it you don’t have to think about it—but I don’t.  You definition also disagrees with the historical usage of the term.

I don’t consider Keynes a fascist (or a “socialist” in your terminology) because I don’t believe he recommended direct control of industrial concerns by the central government.  His idea was to manipulate and persuade, rather than to dictate.  However, the defect is the same; that is, the same errors which cause the boom-and-bust cycles of capitalism also afflict the persuaders and controllers, whether they’re liberals or fascists, as we observed with Greenspan.

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By elisalouisa, June 3, 2010 at 7:48 am Link to this comment

Loren Bliss’s post 6/1 at 11:58pm has so many insights. However, I disagree on one point. Barack Obama is not truly Barack the Betrayer as Loren puts it for his loyalty is to the power elite who backed him with big bucks from the very beginning. They knew that he would not betray them. As for his constituents, obviously, we never were in the running as to his loyalty. We were taken in by his silver tongue, most of us did not see the Chicago style politics that were the essence of that man. Our fault.

As to your post Loren Bliss 6/2 at 11:48 pm Jungian synchronicity indeed can strike at the most unusual times. I especially like number eleven in your “12 Steps to Liberation.” Worth repeating:

Sought through study, meditation and activism to improve our understanding of class struggle, striving for mindfulness and the courage to act upon it.

My favorite Harry Sinclair Lewis novel ofersince72 is Babbitt a character even more in evidence today than he was when Sinclair Lewis wrote the novel.

Thank you Prole for mentioning Dorothy Day, a great lady who worked with the homeless quietly through the years.

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By Shenonymous, June 3, 2010 at 7:31 am Link to this comment

christian96, for whatever it is worth, I think you are on the right track. 
What must be kept in mind, to keep it in perspective, is that the world
contains over 6.7 billion people and counting.  There is not one Everest
to climb but a range of Everests.  The United Nations was one attempt
to do what you suggest, and in some cases it does help, in others
it exacerbates the problem when there is a conflict of political
philosophies and it does not come nearly close to what you think
is necessary.  When you say government control, that too seems
rational.  But which government?  What would that government look
like?  Who would be in charge?  How many governments are there in
the world under which the more than 6 billion live?  These countries
do not get along.  Would that be the first step to achieve your goal?
Isn’t the world shaking and baking to get to that point?  You are
talking about the police state, the Bigger Brother of Big Brother that
Orwell wrote so intensely about.  You are essentially asking for a
World Police Organization.

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By Fat Freddy, June 3, 2010 at 7:29 am Link to this comment

By Anarcissie, June 2 at 12:20 pm #

  Keyensianism is not remotely socialist.  Socialism is the ownership and control of the means of production by the workers.

I disagree. The foundation of Socialism (and fascism or corporatism, for that matter) is a centrally planned economy, regardless of who owns the means of production, which is what Keynesianism is. Keynesianism does not make Capitalism “more palatable”, it confiscates the control of the money supply from the free market and hands it over, in the case of the US, to the government. There can be no free market, or Capitalism, while there is an external control on the value and availability of money.

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By christian96, June 3, 2010 at 6:35 am Link to this comment

We need some type of system that globally provides
for all people’s “NEEDS.”  I don’t care what name
you give the systerm.  After all people’s needs are
provided then let people pursue their “WANTS.”
Currently the “wants” of people are denying the
“needs” of others.  That may require governmental
control.  If, for example, you look at just the
obese people living among us it becomes obvious
people can’t control their own behavior. Perhaps,
I should have used “will not” instead of “can not.”
If people will not control their behavior then
someone is going to have to control it for them.
It looks like that “someone” will have to be the
government whether federal, state, or local.

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By Money is funny, June 3, 2010 at 1:31 am Link to this comment

Hey,

are you writing books or booming babies.

FOCUS

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By Money is funny, June 3, 2010 at 1:15 am Link to this comment

Who is measuring people according to their babies born and why?

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By ofersince72, June 3, 2010 at 1:14 am Link to this comment

You wouldn’t believe all the books us
B A B Y   B O O M E R S   have read,
from Plato, through Chomsky.

And guess what else us B A B Y   B O O M E R S
can do?  Write books,  lots and lots of them
millions of books,  we write and write books us
B A B Y   B O O M E R S ..........

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By Money is funny, June 3, 2010 at 1:12 am Link to this comment

You should have thought about that first before you started booming babies. (just kidding)

You will never be a burden for me.

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By ofersince72, June 3, 2010 at 1:11 am Link to this comment

BABY BOOMERS started out really ideolistic..,
until they found out , they didn’t have to fight the
dirty little resource wars anymore, then they became
insurance salesman, accountants, wall street brokers,
lawyers, car salesmen, and other fine jobs.
they replaced the work ecology, with the word economy.
They thought they were real subtle about it.
The planet didn’t believe they were so subtle though.
But we are B A B Y   B O O M E R S
anything goes, as long as we aren’t the victim.

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By ofersince72, June 3, 2010 at 1:04 am Link to this comment

Most of the lawmakers on Capitol Hill are quess what?
you got it,  B A B Y   B O O M E R S…....

Most of the Execs in Banking on Wall Street, quess what?
B A B Y   B O O M E R S

Most of the “name” jounalists….you got it
B A B Y   B O O M E R S

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By ofersince72, June 3, 2010 at 12:59 am Link to this comment

There is no HOPE,

Most of us posters on here are what have been labeled

B A B Y   B O O M E R S

you can’t outrun that label, it follows one everywhere.
Imagine being called one of those all you life!!!!!
baby boomer, baby boomer… What a sick call….

This generation was bound to doom the world, baby boomer.

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By Money is funny, June 3, 2010 at 12:31 am Link to this comment

I know who my enemies are. Take that crap away from Louisiana pronto I’d say. Man handling the worlds resources is interfering with human progress.

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By ofersince72, June 3, 2010 at 12:12 am Link to this comment

Money, Hedges’ been trying that for six months now,
but I believe we like yelling and screaming.

the B O P   is getting a new   T O P

however, this isn’t the leak….I know what I saw Friday
eve, I was sober.
I went to get a cup of coffee, came back , and all I saw
was a whole lot of water turbulance and crystal gas
whirling all around, didn’t know exactly what I was watching,  Called Heaher in Maryland, told to log on and
watch this, she did and saw the same thing I did, we
watched together, then all of a sudden we are on the
surface of the water bobbing up and down, so we figured
we watched the camera making its way to the surface.
A little later, BP reported it they had surfaced a ROV
for maintainance, we bought that.  Then they gave us
another camera to look at, and it was the big volcano
gusher I have been telling you about, Heather saw it and
I saw it,  Nothing, absolutly nothing was attached to it
and it was coming straight from the ocean floor, like it
was the top of the well head.  I mean a lot of crude was
getting spewed out. They showed this for a couple of
hours , late, late Friday night, that is the last I have
seen of that gusher.  Nothing was attached or around it.

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By Money is funny, June 2, 2010 at 11:48 pm Link to this comment

I get the sense recently that the point of this article is to unite us against the words that divide us. We all have a common objective collectively that is lost in the prejudice that is hurled at us on megaphones with the intentions of manipulating us to the point that we would be divided enough to fight each other.

(putting a sentence at the end of a post in parentheses gives a dramatic effect)

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By RenZo, June 2, 2010 at 11:02 pm Link to this comment

@ Shenonymous
Funny, I thought Hedges was saying that communists create good demonstrations, and teach well and invent good slogans. He doesn’t want a communist government. IM[H]O.
What we lack is those who can rouse the rabble, incite mass action, vocalize demands, PT Barnums of passive resistance, Gandhis of symbolism. Not Lenins of proletarian dictatorship.
Then, no true anarchists ever rule. Anarchy is a utopian concept, like democracy, a goal to aim for,to build on, and only a ideal, not a form of government, really.

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By Shenonymous, June 2, 2010 at 10:46 pm Link to this comment

The black hood has come off!  The Spectre of Communism erecting
itself…on Truthdig!  Did Hedges come completely out of the closet
naked?  The would-be emperor doesn’t have on any clothes now. 
The communist gushing and cooing is top of the head deep.  It is
fascinating to see how wishful thinking of the ultra-left has
levitated from a few incantations of a wannabe guru.  Just reading
the comments shows it has been a feeding frenzy on democracy,
American style.  Yup the smell of blood is sooo enticing, better
even than tequila. Oh, tequila does not have a smell but a good
bottle does have a worm.  What is so funny is that with all the
bombast, no one good idea has been presented on how to get it
going “without bloodshed,” without sedition.

This all said and done on the well-off man’s new plaything, the
computer.  Having and using a computer is not cheap.  It and a good
chair are expensive, and the electricity to run it constantly is too.  It is
a luxury. At least my excellent iMac was not cheap.  I can afford it. I
admit I am capitalistic enough to want to keep it along with all the
other stuff I have including my money, what little there is of it and that
I earn through hard work, and cars and house and clothes and the 50
pair of shoes that I don’t really need but want anyway, oh and the
pearls too.  Yes, I not only prefer my comforts, I want my comforts,
and so do all of you.  I probably have a whole lot more than a lot of
people, but those people will want what they have and not have it taken
from them just as much as I do.  People adapt to circumstances.  It
really is a natural conservative element that wants to preserve what it
has. How many hypocrites posting here would be able to dredge it out
of themselves to say the truth about their possessions and income? 

Flare for the rhetoric is not dead!  Just read Truthdig.

There may not be a need for a ruling class, there isn’t, nor rulers in
any traditional sense, there aren’t, but a duly elected representative
government that is what democracy is about.  That is what The
American Population wants and will go to combat for if they think there
is anyone or any group who would take it from them.

All this talk about the working class taking over is just ideologic
babble.  There is no structure.  No rousing leader let alone any idea
how to put together a communist government.  There is no communist
articulate enough to capture the limelight of the media.  Where is your
dogmatist?  Your Marx?  Your Lenin?  Where is your flag? You don’t
even have a flag!  Are you thinking of running Hedges?  At least Bernie
Sanders is coherent.  Hedges is talking out of his megalomania padupa
once again.  He roused the mob on Truthdig, that’s for sure.  A few
good Anarchists is an oxymoron even if there were only one.  Name a
‘good’ anarchy who long ruled a prosperous country in history. One
was Anatolia, 16th/17th c.  A good anarchy?  Hardly. Haiti? Dominican
Republic? 2 Nups.  Hardly benevolent.  Do you have handy a king
lolling about?  Or a sultan or a caliph? 

Fat Freddy has one fan. Me.  It might not be much as I am as much
against communism as I am against Republican Conservatism and that
is fighting on two different fronts.  I have my doubts I will survive, but I
will give it a go and die trying.

Do you really think this man has spoken anything except
demagoguery?  Of course, it is the litany you have been waiting for with
bated breath! 

Martin Luther King, Jr. wrote from his jail cell in Birmingham, “We know
through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by
the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed.”  This is exactly
what would happen where even on the remotest chance communism
prevailed as a form or government in the United States.  For even the
most benign form of communism inherently has oppression built into
its sinews.  Freedom is not in its vocabulary.

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By Peter Knopfler, June 2, 2010 at 9:39 pm Link to this comment

Agreeing doesn`t come easy for, but thankyou Chris for stimulating and waking the dead. I will Harmonize a little, Benjamin Franklin was asked in 1773 by Ohio newspaper man,” MR. Franklin What is your definition of a good citizen?” Franklin said “Let me be brief, a good citizen is someone who`s biology tied to the economy.” YES SLAVERY. 1846 Karl Marx Said ” IF your biology is tied to the economy, you are a slave forever more”. The republic of America was built on Masonary foundation- read Manly P Hall “The secret teachings of All AGES”. Marx has always been misunderstood, being a Viennese, like snitzel, we learn from reading and reading some more.The founding fathers used to have a Hoarding Law, it was called the UNCOMPASSIONATE ACCUMULATION OF MONEY,HOARDING MEANT POSSIBLE EXECUTION. IAnother words If you made a lot of money from a community, (now Global) and You DID NOT put any money back into the community you got it from, Hoarding. So the rich got together in Maryland and bought out the State and introduced a bill to rid the hoarding law.The late Howard Zinn`s book” A people`s history of the united states is a good place to start, Chomsky can also be of great Help. Corporation Dictatorship will usher in THE ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT, Massive control, Prozac generation will only role over, the warriors are over fifty too old for most to CARE. Coca Cola responsible for 50, million handi caps just in India alone being the highest consumption of Coke for 60 years, biology tied to the economy, coke cola has poisoned society of Global proportions for 108 years, yes 108 years of chemistry. Remember Dupont 25 years on TV ” Better living through chemistry” and so we did, this is all tip of the ice berg, is that a jewish iceberg! OHH my G_D THE TURKISH TITANIC! Thanks Chris it been fun!

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By tihsstaezevahc, June 2, 2010 at 9:22 pm Link to this comment

Tennessee,

You start out saying that Marx did not advocate violence then you go into a rant saying he did. Make up your mind.

When you advocate violence at what point does your ideology become a delusion?

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By Tennessee-Socialist, June 2, 2010 at 9:20 pm Link to this comment

I BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE COULD WAGE A REVOLUTION IN THEIR LIVES BY STUDYING THE BIBLE WITH THEIR CHILDREN, STUDYING MARX, LENIN, SOCIALISM, US HISTORY, POLITICS AND TO IMITATE JESUS CHRIST, LENIN, TROTSKY, MARTIN LUTHER KING, JFK, ETC. AND TEACHING THEIR CHILDREN ABOUT SOCIALISM, CAPITALISM AND POLITICS. 

This country needs spiritual revival and awakening.  Along with a change of morality from the current immoralism of the capitalist american way of life, of sex addiction, pornography, fornication, alcoholism, unfriendliness, individualism, selfishness and materialism.  To a paradigm and lifestyle of book-reading, moralism, obedience to parents, love of family, love of the poors, sharing wealth with the poors and others, and a system of community property, of sharing wealth with family and friends.


.

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By Marc Francis Schlee, June 2, 2010 at 8:50 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I am an American

I am a Patriot

I am a Socialist


FREE AMERICA

DIRECT DEMOCRACY

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By Tennessee-Socialist, June 2, 2010 at 8:48 pm Link to this comment

By tihsstaezevahc, June 2 at 10:30 pm # My friend, I think that Chris Hedges is VERY VERY WRONG IN SAYING THAT KARL MARX ADVOCATED VIOLENCE, AND A WORSHIP OF THE STATE. THAT’S A TOTAL TWIST OF MARXISM, TROTKISM AND LENINISM.

CHRIS HEDGES IS GENERALIZING. KARL MARX ADVOCATED A VIOLENT-REVOLUTION AGAINST THE CAPITALIST-STATE TO BE REPLACED BY A WORKERS-STATE. AND EVENTUALLY THAT WORKERS-STATE WOULD EVOLVE INTO AN ANARCHIST-COMMUNIST SYSTEM (A SOCIALIST SYSTEM WITHOUT A GOVERNMENT)

AND BY THE WAY VIOLENCE CAN BE JUSTIFIED AT TIMES. IF YOUR DAUGHTER IS RAPED, YOU HAVE MORAL RIGHT TO USE VIOLENCE AGAINST THE RAPIST

AND CHRIS HEDGES FORGOT LINCOLN’S QUOTE WHEN LINCOLN SAID THAT IF PEOPLE FEEL WORRIED THAT THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT GETS CORRUPT, THEY CAN HAVE THE RIGHT TO OVERTHROW IT.

AND YOU CANNOT OVERTHROW A CAPITALIST-CORRUPT STATE WITH ROSES AND PETAL, BUT WITH VIOLENCE !!

The real truth about Russia’s revolution is that it lead to something good, which was the Bolshevik Workers State, but the Bolshevik Workers Democratic State was overthrown by Stalin, and turned into a state-capitalist deformed state.  But Chris Hedges commits a sin by blaming Karl Marx for USSRs state-capitalist dictatorship and not Joseph Stalin and The Mensheviks.

i am a non-dogmatic non-fundamentalist marxist.  What i mean is that i don’t take socialism like a perfect religion. What i mean is that i can read capitalist books by capitalist writters and that doesn’t mean that i hate socialism.  Or i could have Republican friends and that doesn’t mean that i hate socialism.

I think that we should be allowed to get information from all sources.  David Duke is a libertarian and an anti-zionism conspiracy theorist. I respect his personal ideology and I wouldn’t hate him for being an ex-ku kus klan member, because in this world each person is free to be the religion or to love whatever political system that they prefer

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By christian96, June 2, 2010 at 8:33 pm Link to this comment

Martha——What economic system will Jesus use when
he sets up his kingdom here on earth?

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By Tennessee-Socialist, June 2, 2010 at 8:07 pm Link to this comment

POLITICAL SCIENTIST WEBSTER TARPLEY SAYS THAT TIM GEITHNER’S AMERICA IS FINISHED, AND COMMENTS ON CHINA

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsGeKJgmF34&playnext_from=TL&videos=iUBWBhSB130

Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr9GNSBnw5g&feature=related

Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__f7LWUn_qY&feature=related


.

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By John Steinsvold, June 2, 2010 at 8:07 pm Link to this comment

An Alternative to Capitalism (which we need here in
the USA)

The following link takes you to an essay titled:
“Home of the Brave?” which was published by the
Athenaeum Library of Philosophy:

http://evans-
experientialism.freewebspace.com/steinsvold.htm

John Steinsvold

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