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Thirty Years of Unleashed Greed

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Posted on Oct 26, 2011
AP / Jay Finneburgh

Iraq War veteran Scott Olsen, 24, lies bleeding in Oakland, Calif., after being struck by a projectile apparently fired by police. He suffered a skull fracture while marching with other demonstrators attempting to re-establish a presence near a protest camp disbanded by authorities, said Dottie Guy of the Iraq Veterans Against the War.

By Robert Scheer

It is class warfare. But it was begun not by the tear-gassed, rain-soaked protesters asserting their constitutionally guaranteed right of peaceful assembly but rather the financial overlords who control all of the major levers of power in what passes for our democracy. It is they who subverted the American ideal of a nation of stakeholders in control of their economic and political destiny.

Between 1979 and 2007, as the Congressional Budget Office reported this week, the average real income of the top 1 percent grew by an astounding 275 percent. And that is after payment of the taxes that the superrich and their Republican apologists find so onerous.

Those three decades of rampant upper-crust greed unleashed by the Reagan Revolution of the 1980s will be well marked by future historians recording the death of the American dream. In that decisive historical period the middle class began to evaporate and the nation’s income gap increased to alarming proportions. “As a result of that uneven growth,” the CBO explained, “the distribution of after-tax household income in the United States was substantially more unequal in 2007 than in 1979: The share of income accruing to higher-income households increased, whereas the share accruing to other households declined. ... The share of after-tax household income for the 1 percent of the population with the highest income more than doubled. ...”

That was before the 2008 meltdown that ushered in the massive increase in unemployment and housing foreclosures that further eroded the standard of living of the vast majority of Americans while the superrich rewarded themselves with immense bonuses. To stress the role of the financial industry in this march to greater income inequality as the Occupy Wall Street movement has done is not a matter of ideology or rhetoric, but, as the CBO report details, a matter of discernible fact.

The CBO noted that in comparing top earners, “The [income] share of financial professionals almost doubled from 1979 to 2005” and that “employees in the financial and legal professions made up a larger share of the highest earners than people in those other groups.”

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No wonder, since it was the bankers and the lawyers serving them who managed to end the sensible government regulations that contained their greed. The undermining of those regulations began during the Reagan presidency, and so it is not surprising that, as the CBO reports, “the compensation differential between the financial sector and the rest of the economy appears inexplicably large from 1990 onward.” Citing a major study on the subject, the CBO added, “The authors believe that deregulation and corporate finance activities linked to initial public offerings and credit risks are the primary causes of the higher compensation differential.”

So much for the claim that excessive government regulation has discouraged business activity. The CBO report also denies the charge that taxes on the wealthy have placed an undue burden on the economy, documenting that federal revenue sources have become more regressive and that the tax burden on the wealthy has declined since 1979.

In the face of the evidence that class inequality had been rising sharply in the United States even before the banking-induced recession, it would seem that the Occupy Wall Street protests are a quite measured and even timid response to the crisis.

Actually, the rallying cry of that movement was originally enunciated not by the protesters in the streets, but by one of the nation’s most respected economists. Last April, Nobel Laureate Joseph Stiglitz wrote an article in Vanity Fair titled “Of the 1%, by the 1%, for the 1%” that should be required reading for those well-paid pundits who question the logic and motives of the Wall Street protesters. “Americans have been watching protests [abroad] against repressive regimes that concentrate massive wealth in the hands of an elite few,” Stiglitz wrote. “Yet, in our democracy, 1% of the people take nearly a quarter of the nation’s income—an inequality even the wealthy will come to regret.”

Maybe justice will prevail despite the suffering that the 1 percent has inflicted on the foreclosed and the jobless. But to date those who have seized 40 percent of the nation’s wealth still control the big guns in this war of classes.

Click here to check out Robert Scheer’s book,
“The Great American Stickup: How Reagan Republicans and Clinton Democrats Enriched Wall Street While Mugging Main Street.”


Keep up with Robert Scheer’s latest columns, interviews, tour dates and more at www.truthdig.com/robert_scheer.



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By ardee, November 2, 2011 at 3:24 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, November 2 at 9:31 am

A finer and perceptive post that deserves kudos…..so….

Kudos!

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Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, November 2, 2011 at 9:31 am Link to this comment

Occupy Wall Street has already changed the public debate.  For instance,
last week’s CBO report on the spreading inequality of income in America. 
No news really.  It’s already widely known that the top 1% now gets 20%
of the nation’s income, up from the 9% of latter half of the1970s.  But
funny (not funny) this kind of news made the front page of the nation’s
major newspapers for the first time! 

Why? Because for the first time in more than 50 years there is a surprising
intersection of middle income from all the working sectors of the American
public, professional as well as blue collar are more than talking about the
concentration of income, wealth, and political power at the top, they find
they have a common anger. 

The Occupiers represent that anger, they are the symbol Against Insidious Oppression.

They rightfully blame Republicans for stacking the deck in favor of the rich that
includes the corporate sector, I call them Corporatocrats.  A New York Times/CBS
News poll, shows 69% of respondents said Republican policies favor the rich while
not absolving it to zero! 28% said the same of Obama’s policies. 

Facts are facts and no attempt to spin them is tenable. Fact:  instead of investing in
jobs and growth, the corpulent rich (porcine) are putting their money into gold or
Treasury bills, or investing it in Brazil or South Asia or anywhere else it can guarantee
the highest return.

Some of the politicians in Washington who demonstrate they have a measurable
quantity of empathy for the plight of the populous, are Bernie Sanders, an Independent,
and Democrats Marcy Kaptur, Dennis Kucinich, Barbara Lee, Raúl Grijalva, Keith Ellison,
Louise Slaughter, Peter DeFazio, John Larson, former Congressman Russ Feingold.

Paul Krugman: “Why OWS Matters:

A few days ago the Social Security Administration disclosed that benefits will
go up by 3.6% next year. This is the first time that Soc. Sec. benefits have been
raised since 2009. This increase will provide some relief for to more than 60
million Americans who have had their retirement accounts battered by a stock
market meltdown, and having their home equity wiped out by the real estate
crunch.

What is significant about this bit of news is how little anybody said about it.
Like the dog in the Sherlock Holmes story that did not bark, the deficit hawks
who dominated the political discussion for what seems like years now, are the
clue to what is happening under the surface of our political landscape today.
These people simply said nothing.

For the longest time, all you ever heard about was how “broke” the USA is, and
how everybody better get onboard with the idea of eliminating, privatizing, or
just cutting back very deeply on social security entitlements. For a while this
was the one issue that dominated the whole of the news. Now, we learn that
the benefits are going up for those on social security, and nobody seems to
care at all.

Why? What’s changed?”  Read to find out:
http://playedout.us/paul-krugman-credits-occupy-wall-street-with-changing-the-debate.htm

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By Leefeller, November 2, 2011 at 8:29 am Link to this comment

For a long time now I have known the Repulcians were bought and sold to the highest bidder, but also some of the money is rubbing off on some of the Democrats. Lets face it most of the politicians in Washington are millionaires, expecting someone who has absolutely no connection to the real people of this nation. It is something like my messy barn, or a persons messy house.  People do not notice the mess as it slowly builds,  because they become used to it.  So I clearly see the mess in Washington DC to be as real as my empty wallet.  Apparently most of the politicians are immune to the built up mess they have made. This means the plight and daily lives of their constituents are ignored, instead politicians are influenced by each other, by the moment, the lobbyists and monied benefactors. The mess is real and actually the system is broken.

I suggest we find out which politicians have a grasp of empathy for the plight of the populous and give them credit if due.  We should also show who charlatans are and throw their sorry bought and sold asses out!

Apparently a few politicins appear fair as I can tell, who do not seem bought and sold, their voting record should tell the story. We must find out who is telling tall tails and who has egg on their face and expose them.

The OWS comment posted by She, has merit in its reasons, only it is a radical change from what we are acclimatized too, but the disenfranchisement and inequality of a bought and sold system of government is not acceptable or tolerably palatable, because it is as if we all live in Syria now!

By the way Nick_Lento, I suspect you are correct in your accusation, except I suspect there are more then one poster who refuses to discuss issues, instead they cherry pick and demean, showing an agenda of distraction. It is taboo to support discussions on issues of substance, for this could possibly build a commonality and we can not have the common folk in agreement. So in the minds of trolls, provocateurs dullards, and goons ....no to commonality, no there must be constant division and manipulations then control and power becomes so much easier for their benefactors.

You know,  I suspcet Wisconsin may have been the wake up call?

Report this

By Nick_Lento, November 2, 2011 at 7:30 am Link to this comment

Billy said it well.  Please don’t be distracted and diverted by trolls.  “Ozark” is a
pro propagandist.  Virtually everything that comes off his/her keyboard is a lie
or a distortion.  His/her purpose is just to waste your time and fuck with your
mind..and to put out some negative toxic memes.

>>>By Billy Pilgrim, October 30 at 7:35 pm Link to this comment
The Tea Party that trolls like Ozark claim to
represent is an astro-turf movement financed by the
Koch brothers and populated by a group of dullards
with a fifth grade understanding of history, politics
and economics. That’s not even mentioning the racist
imbeciles who fashioned themselves as being real
patriots who brought weapons to the fake rallies
sponsored by Fox News shortly after Obama took
office. The Tea Part fakirs reached their nadir last
year with their idiotic response to the healthcare
reform act and subsequently elected a group of ill
educated morons to Congress.<<<<

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By ardee, November 2, 2011 at 6:35 am Link to this comment

OzarkMichael, November 1 at 5:31 pm Link to this comment

  It is a real pity that, despite multiple postings, almost endless in fact, you have still contributed nothing towards a real discussion.

                  -ardee

ardee, your statement puzzles me. I have asked important questions about the 99%, and you do not contribute any answer. Please do not judge me unless you are up to explaining, or at least trying to do so.

This last statement on your part, given the almost endless false accusations, distorted suppositions, outright lies in fact, that you have “contributed” here makes me pity rather than scorn you.

Do you offer that you really are as blindly radical as you suggest?

Report this

By heterochromatic, November 2, 2011 at 12:18 am Link to this comment

we’re still in the early rounds, Oz. keep light on your feet and high with your
hands.

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By Shenonymous, November 2, 2011 at 12:07 am Link to this comment

Since this forum is about Wall Street’s Greed

From Occupy Wall Street
http://occupywallst.org/

It is time for us to come together and build a new world through the
power of the individual and the community. We are not here to make
requests of a corrupt political system - we are here to take our lives
back into our own hands. We are not acknowledging subservience.
There is no higher power than the power of the people. We are not
asking for assistance. We are declaring independence. Our demand
is not to those in power, it is to those individuals still silenced.

Join us.

We are the 99%. We are not afraid. We are not waiting. We are working to
make a better world.

Occupy Wall Street. Occupy Everywhere.

The Power to the People

Report this
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By OzarkMichael, November 1, 2011 at 8:40 pm Link to this comment

heterochromatic, I respect your straight attack, but its your jabs that irk and wear me down.

Report this
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By Leefeller, November 1, 2011 at 8:23 pm Link to this comment

It has been fun OM, but I agree a waste of time and effort to what cause?

I will ask you a serious question, do you not feel the 99 percent as an allegory has some merit in its feeling of disenfranchisement and inequality, in some ways similar to the Tea Party’s original intent?

Is there not one inch of common ground in the feeling in which our government is bought and sold to the highest bidder?

The list of common grievances affecting the populous must be marginalized by flack and diversions, so the likelihood there can never be common ground. I have always suspected partisanship was developed just for that reason? I suspect differences are developed to serve the purpose of division.

Far as I can tell the Occupy Wall Street is not a political movement, it is a social one, hence not left or right, not conservative or liberal, no Occupy Wall Street is about fairness a search for integrity and accountability of the government for the people of this nation, I believe the original Tea Party was very similar to OWS but was highjacked to serve special interests, this may happen with OWS also, but I hope not!

Get the money out!

Report this

By heterochromatic, November 1, 2011 at 6:13 pm Link to this comment

——If you flee from such questions like a demon from the cross——


we neither fear nor flee from the right cross.

we circle and hook with the left.

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By OzarkMichael, November 1, 2011 at 5:31 pm Link to this comment

It is a real pity that, despite multiple postings, almost endless in fact, you have still contributed nothing towards a real discussion.

                            -ardee

ardee, your statement puzzles me. I have asked important questions about the 99%, and you do not contribute any answer. Please do not judge me unless you are up to explaining, or at least trying to do so.

True, I have never participated in “a real discussion” here. By ‘real’ I mean that the foundation of equality is not extended to me, and so humanly speaking the discussion is not real. There is never a real discussion unless there is equality. 

Meanwhile I am very grateful to Truthdig for not tossing me out. Sometimes my writing is not so great, necause sometimes my goal is merely to give back the static that i recieve. Still, Truthdig has never censored me and kudos to them.

True, i have recieved criticism to learn and grow from. There was some benefit to me from that.

On the other hand my criticism of the Left is unanswered and some of it is quite good. The heart of the matter, our shared humanity, the bottom line, what methods we use… these have been my themes and my questions.

Actually, for you to say that i “contributed nothing towards real discussion” shows more about you than it does about me. Wise people in any great endeavor look for hard questions to face and confront themselves with. If you flee from such questions like a demon from the cross, it seems that you might be lacking. That is our inequality.

I feel quite justified in asking questions. I feel obligated to criticize that which must not be criticized, especially amongst yourselves, who are so fiercely judgemental of causes other than your own. That is our inequality.

We certainly need to criticize any political movement… but apparently only if its on the Right. Yes, true, we do need criticism! For the Left… well, criticism doesnt apply, its not a “real discussion”. How true and yet how sad.

The Leftist cause is too pure or holy or something. We shouldnt look too closely at how it came to be, how it operates, its methods, its bad people drawn to it, its even worse people ready to take advantage of the situation created, its base motives, its historical performance, and its unforeseen consequences. 

Criticism of the Left is not welcome, but nevertheless criticism is my contribution, and some would say that criticism is the most vital contribution since human beings are quite fallable.

Fallable human beings who support a movement feel they attain infallability. This has been studied extensively and although it is applied by the Left against folks on the Right, it seems the same medicine isnt needed at OWS. That is our inequality.

I been here a long time, ardee, i know how this works. I know this post “contributes nothing to the real discussion”. Thats a shame.

Leefeller, I wont prolong your discomfort. At some point we have to give it up, and that time has come. I wont address you personally anymore. Perhaps you will return the favor.

Report this

By ardee, November 1, 2011 at 9:45 am Link to this comment

OzarkMichael, November 1 at 5:48 am

It is a real pity that, despite multiple postings, almost endless in fact, you have still contributed nothing towards a real discussion.

Report this

By heterochromatic, November 1, 2011 at 9:35 am Link to this comment

La—-The tax rates above apply to household income above $380K, which should
be raised to at least 50%. Then raised progressively at each bracket-level to about
90% for all incomes above 20 megabucks.

What will happen? Stratospheric levels of Total Compensation will be reduced

——-

where does this work? which countries do this?


and wouldn’t a 90% tax rate on everybody’s income be even better and more fair
and raise even more money in taxes?

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By Leefeller, November 1, 2011 at 7:10 am Link to this comment

All the morons and all the cronies of the 1 percent are upset about Occupy Wall Street, because of its transparency and the traction it has achieved, while the monied interests are being called on the carpet for their lack of compassion, scruples and blatant hypocrisy as part of the inequality, they have been exposed in the light for the world to see.

Our government seems corrupt to me when only a few people as the 1 percent seem to be directing the nation over a very clear cliff of inequality. Everyone as the 99 percent know this for they are living it. This is obvious, except the 1 percent cannot willingly accept responsibility, this,... this inequality is real,  but the court jesters and minions must never bring up this discussion of inequality for there is no gain or profit in it, so the 1 percent and their hanger on’s are like the goons of the robber barrons. 

For years people have known and said just follow the money, now it is exposed a broken corrupt system, this is what Occupy Wall Street is about. People who are not used to being disenfranchised now realize how it feels, when the abuses of the few against the many (the 1 percent) Especially the blatant Republicans showing their hand, who they work for and like kings of the past, the Koch Brothers feel money is only thing important, and should buy government. For the last several years this building and budding of disenfranchisement has been boldly perpetrated and blatantly executed, finally has become so abusive the recipients the 99 percent can no longer stand to be buggered passively by the 1 percent.

When inequality becomes as it is, looking as a third world to people not used to it. This becomes so ones face at a certain level, people feel the need to express their grievances in unison, and placing their bodies on the street, this is OWS, this is reality both here in the USA and the world.

Corporations are not people, money is not people. The populous has finally woken up and seeded the field as never before, inequality is not going to be passively accepted.
Occupy Wall Street is giving the 1 percent a well deserved wedgie!

Go people, real people, go Occupy Wall Street and get the money out!

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By OzarkMichael, November 1, 2011 at 5:48 am Link to this comment

Leefeller asks: “What the hell do you think people are protesting about!”

Even if they were protesting for some thing I felt was great, if it succeeded i would still be quite dubious about where it leads.

“Occupation” by definition is a type of force seeking confrontation, and that force bypasses the democratic system we have. If “Occupation” succeeds it will lead to more use of the same tactics, probably to escalation of force to achieve some greater good. Occupying not a nearby park, but the front steps of the enemy. And maybe in future Occupy inside the building of the enemy. Maybe even the White House itself. Why not? What rule or convention or law deserves to be obeyed if it keeps you from obtaining the good changes in society that you desire?

That is the question. Over and oove again i have asked it and i will ask it. Its important to understand the bottom line, to think ahead. OWS sets a terrible precendent and there is no Truthdigger who can face the music on that question. 

In the distant past I made some progress by explaining how it would be if conservatives took up the same methods that Truthdiggers propose to use for themselves. That explanation shocked and horrified you in the past, ‘its fascism!’ you replied, and it would bring a glimmer of understanding to you, but it was soon forgotten.

Or another brief progress was achieved by showing similarity of far Left to far Right ideology. The whole point of “Martha/Thomas as Mein Kampf” was to show that Leftist radicals are not so different from Nazis. The circumvention of the electorate is always done for a ‘greater’ cause. Thats what you dont seem to remember, Leefeller. I have seen this day coming since a year ago. i now see the next step you will take if OWS succeeds. 

Yes, now all caution is out the window. You have forgotten everything(if you ever understood it) and so I must berate you non-stop.

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By Shenonymous, November 1, 2011 at 5:01 am Link to this comment

While superior advice, among the two alternatives, Lafayette, the
first likely has the most promising prospects, where as stock
options or EOSs, if Walmart is an example, there is no word out
that many companies of magnitude are considering it.  But in
this age of getting rid of pension plans it is seen as a way to
placate employees agitating for a bargaining instrument, ahem,
a union.  For the employees as a safety net, it depends sales for
a sluggish economy or company cost-cutting strategies that
could reduce sales that spur growth hence affect stocks. Also,
it is dependent on volatile fluctuations in the market.  Some of
Walmart’s employees are contented others are not for various
reasons that affect the option. Also the effects of diluted EPS also
has to be kept in mind.

As per Investopedia: This where the earnings per share is calculated
by dividing a company’s profit by the number of shares outstanding.
Warrants, stock options, convertible preferred shares, etc. all serve to
increasing the number of shares outstanding. As a shareholder, this is
a bad thing. If the denominator in the equation (shares outstanding) is
larger, the earnings per share is reduced (the same profit figure is used
in the numerator).

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EmileZ's avatar

By EmileZ, November 1, 2011 at 1:51 am Link to this comment

Beat Happening - Gravedigger Blues

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dxj1KibOJi0

Trick Or Treat!!!

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Lafayette's avatar

By Lafayette, October 31, 2011 at 11:43 pm Link to this comment

OH MY GOSH!

CBO: “The authors believe that deregulation and corporate finance activities linked to initial public offerings and credit risks are the primary causes of the higher compensation differential.”

Important, yes, but hardly as important as the fact that Reagan brought marginal and capital gains taxes precipitously down. So, in terms of income tax, the Finance Moguls were taking home form 75 to 80% of their take-home pay.

Do the maths:
* Obtain compensation from WikiP here:

The typical salary in the top of the list (of American executives) is $1 million - $3 million.  The typical top cash bonus is $10 million - $15 million.  The highest stock bonus is $20 million.  The highest option exercise have been in the range of $100 million - $200 million.

Note that stocks vested are taxed at a Much Lower rate.
* So obtain the “mean” (meaning sort of like the average) personal income tax rate from here, which is 29%.
* Run the numbers ...

Do you like what you see? (Me neither ...)

MY POINT

Total Compensation is not the real issue. Tax levels are the key to more Income Fairness.

With higher levels of taxation at incomes of the stratospheric level, then income fairness in America improves.

HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN?

The tax rates above apply to household income above $380K, which should be raised to at least 50%. Then raised progressively at each bracket-level to about 90% for all incomes above 20 megabucks.

What will happen? Stratospheric levels of Total Compensation will be reduced because there is no sense in paying higher compensation since it is highly taxed.

WHAT’S THE FAIRNESS ALTERNATIVE?

A Stock Pool is created by the company in which are placed its stock options on an annual basis.

Then a scale is negotiated with management that designates, for each individual in the company, the worth of their contribution to the company’s success in terms of the number of stock options that are accorded them at each level in company’s hierarchy - from floor sweeper to CEO.

Most importantly is the rule that designates the multiple between the lowest and highest number of stock options. (Which is the hard part.)

Of course, the distribution will not be equal, but it will be, at least, fair - since All Workers in the company share in stock options.

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By heterochromatic, October 31, 2011 at 7:06 pm Link to this comment

Billy Pilgrim,
The Tea Party that trolls like Ozark

——-

don’t do that again. respond to Ozark like at least
half a fuckin grown-up and shove calling “troll” back
into your teenage years.

Pilgrim.

Report this
Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, October 31, 2011 at 5:25 pm Link to this comment

Lets see we have seen consistent inequality for over 30 years taking money away from the middle class, the working tax payers pockets and then we have this constant diversionary tactic of avoiding and addressing the topic, (inequality inequality would mean loosing the argument, sosponsored by the 1 percent)  because addressing inequality is a loosing argument. So from the right side of OM’s face,  we instead get his usual smoke and mirrors from under the bridge, never what OWS really stands forthe 99 percent the people all the people as in populism.  We the receivers of bogus job craters, the beneficiary of the usual hokum reptilian belly crawl of slithering, nothing but distractions.

Keep trying Swamp Boy!

Get the money out!

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By OzarkMichael, October 31, 2011 at 4:56 pm Link to this comment

Anarcissie said: “I haven’t seen anything about ‘Islamofascists’ yet, however.  Can’t we have a photograph of bin Laden and Ahmadinejad visiting OWS?”

Hmm, I dunno, lemmie check. Ah. Here is something. The Iranian supremo said:

“They (U.S. government) may crack down on this movement but cannot uproot it,” Khamenei said. “Ultimately, it will grow so that it will bring down the capitalist system and the West.”

Khamenei’s remarks were not the first from Iranian officials, who have called the Occupy Wall Street movement an “American Spring,” likening it to the uprisings that have toppled autocratic Arab rulers in the Middle East earlier this year.

Ahmadinajad sends his love too! He is also part of the 99%. One big happy family.

Power to the people!

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By gerard, October 31, 2011 at 4:40 pm Link to this comment

Anarchissie:  I’m afraid you’re just going to have to be satisfied with Hillary shaking hands with that Bahrain guy. Wait till next week.  Meantime, suck up all this right wing nonsense and smarten up!

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Anarcissie's avatar

By Anarcissie, October 31, 2011 at 7:37 am Link to this comment

The Occupations must be making some kind of progress, if the rightist fantasies about them have gone from ‘dirty hippies’ to ‘highly organized violent revolutionaries’.

I haven’t seen anything about ‘Islamofascists’ yet, however.  Can’t we have a photograph of bin Laden and Ahmadinejad visiting OWS?

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By Leefeller, October 31, 2011 at 6:59 am Link to this comment

Great line up of clones R(ight) us She, I am aware of the companion list of abuses and inequality’s, I just do not have the disciplined ability like most people to focus and document every ass hole accounting of the 1 percent and their cronies. It is kind of like I know the ass holes are out there constantly crapping on my lawn, like most people I try not to step in it! 

Ignored conflicts of interest, lack of integrity and the a clear absence of accountability has become the norm, expectantly now that the supremos say corporations are people too. For many people it has really the 99 percent into seeing the obvious beacon in the sky of the 1 percent with bells on having a free for all,  buggering at the expense of the 99 percent. Many people have caught on and are attempting to wake up the rest of the 99 percent, while the 1 percent is fighting to keep their cronies and lackeys in place.

There appears to be a clear absence of shame in politics and business, thank the Occupy Wall Street protest. At least it is attempting to call attention on the inequalities and the shameless nature of the 1 percent.

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By theRightRadical, October 31, 2011 at 5:47 am Link to this comment

By truedigger3, October 31 at 4:05 am Link to this comment

Re: By theRightRadical, October 30 at 11:25 pm


theRightRadical wrote:
You all want the state in charge?  This is what you get. Fucking chaos.
————————————————————————-
theRightRadical,
The chaos started when your beloved Wall St. and big corporations bought politicians who deregulated everything and everything is going downhill since.
Do you want Goldman Sacks, Enron, British Petroleum and Bank of America etc ... to be in charge??!! ASSHOLE!!


You think I love Wall Street Asswipe?  I abhor those white shoed, Harvard punk ass shits. 
You are too fucking stupid to even know what I am talking about. 
Go wrap yourself in the, and beg for the latest regulations, so you can hand even more power even more power to your oppressors.
You’re so fucking stupid you would appeal to the Piranhas for mercy, instead of beating them over the club you could held in your hands, except for you asked them for stronger club “laws”

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By theRightRadical, October 31, 2011 at 5:37 am Link to this comment

heterochromatic, October 30 at 11:33 pm Link to this comment

——Oh well at least the Maoists, and the Soviets reformed fairly peacefully,
and with much bloodshed. ——-


you can say that again.


but don’t.

you haven’t demonstrated in that comment that you’ve even slightly more a clue
than have the people whom you’re castigating.


bury your Glenn Beckish buffoonery

You’re a fucking idiot. I pegged Beck as the phony. He was years, ago, all them “Right” wing radio no loads are. 
You’re just a dupe, all you fucks embrace Keynes, and the spending always to war, whether it be combat in a foreign land, or the combat that come to streets of America. 
It’s the ultimate in “stimulus” programs.  Be happy with everyone you have uplifted.

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By ardee, October 31, 2011 at 4:07 am Link to this comment

Lafayette, October 30 at 7:24 am Link to this comment

  Exam: If one thinks a little deeper one could characterise it as” it’s okay for American Multi nationals to screw other countries just so long as we “average?” Americans get our share of the booty. After all that’s the American way.

Ignorant blathering-in-a-blog from the Looney Left.

International markets are highly competitive on a price-basis. Why American goods/services should have any particular advantage by “screwing other countries” is pure invective and without substance.

That you represent the “Looney” Centrist position is a moot point. That you completely fail to note that, prior to our economic nose dive, it was precisely the inflated and impossible to maintain lifestyle of our electorate that made reform so difficult.

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By truedigger3, October 31, 2011 at 4:05 am Link to this comment

Re: By theRightRadical, October 30 at 11:25 pm


theRightRadical wrote:
You all want the state in charge?  This is what you get. Fucking chaos.
————————————————————————-
theRightRadical,
The chaos started when your beloved Wall St. and big corporations bought politicians who deregulated everything and everything is going downhill since.
Do you want Goldman Sacks, Enron, British Petroleum and Bank of America etc ... to be in charge??!! ASSHOLE!!

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By Shenonymous, October 31, 2011 at 12:23 am Link to this comment

The Koch Brothers paranoia reminded me of an interview I saw
today:Angela Davis ...famous communist Black activist in 70s and
80s.  Spoke at a couple of Occupies.  Said this was democracy at its
finest, and exercising Constitutional rights.  That she spoke of
democracy was surprising given her communist milieu.  Communism
does not send chills up the spine anymore for more Americans than it
used to.  Times have changed.  So do people. 

Which reminds me, Putin is set to send Russia into regression and wants
to Sovietize it again. That does not mean socialism, the people will not
be the beneficiaries.  He wants to be “president” (read tyrant for life). 
He would have to use the KGB as his henchmen and since he is from
their ranks, well the Russian people are in for it.  It would be amazing
were the Russians have an Occupy themselves only for reasons similar to
the Middle East, for freedom and democracy because they don’t have the
financial tether to a corporate structure that Americans do.

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By Shenonymous, October 31, 2011 at 12:20 am Link to this comment

The two movements are not comparable, they are only contrastable.
Three of the dozens of opinions on google:

International Business Times - Oct. 27, 2011 - Palash R. Ghosh
Occupy Wall Street vs. Tea Party: Two Peas in a Pod?
http://tinyurl.com/3wthq6e
“...while these two groups may have some similarities, they have
some vastly different goals and strategies.  “The Tea Party and OWS
movements are driven by an innate desire to reform the political system,
that is, return it to its Constitutional roots,” he said. “However, while the
Tea Party focuses on winning elections to take control of government,
OWS wants a presidential commission tasked with ending the influence
money in Washington.”  The two groups have completely different
objectives…”

The StatesmanJournal.com
Occupy Wall Street, Tea Party not the same - The Tea Party wants
government out of our lives. The “Occupy” groups want the government
to take over our lives. - Oct. 19, 2011

WSJ - October 18, 2011 – Alan Wolfe
Why Occupy Wall Street and Tea Party rallies can’t be compared
http://tinyurl.com/3keol2r
Because the Tea Party has specific goals, mostly a return to the smaller
central government envisioned by the Founders. The OWS movement has
repeatedly eschewed specific goals, and occupation alone doesn’t suffice
as defining a movement.


Unlike Denver, Oakland…
http://tinyurl.com/3rus62v
Portland police arrest 25 Occupy Portland demonstrators overnight
Sunday, October 30, 2011, The Oregonian
Despite the police confrontation, Mayor Sam Adams said Occupy Portland
remains one of the most peaceful Occupy Wall Street protests nationally.

No, the Koch Brotheres are not employers of the Tea Party, they are the
Tea Party.
http://tinyurl.com/3c9whqe
Peter Fenn – USNews - February 2, 2011
Tea Party Funding Koch Brothers Emerge From Anonymity

The New Yorker - A Reporter at Large - Jane Mayer - August 30, 2010
Covert Operations - The billionaire brothers who are waging a war
against Obama.
“Five hundred people attended the summit, which served, in part, as
a training session for Tea Party activists in Texas.
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer

NYT - Op-Ed Columnist Frank Rich -August 28, 2010
The Billionaires Bankrolling the Tea Party
“Koch Industries began with oil in the 1930s and now also spews an
array of industrial products, from Dixie cups to Lycra, not unlike DuPont’s
portfolio of paint and plastics. Sometimes the biological DNA persists as
well. The Koch brothers’ father, Fred, was among the select group chosen
to serve on the Birch Society’s top governing body. In a recorded 1963
speech that survives in a University of Michigan archive, he can be heard
warning of “a takeover” of America in which Communists would “infiltrate
the highest offices of government in the U.S. until the president is a
Communist, unknown to the rest of us.” That rant could
be delivered as is at any Tea Party rally today.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/opinion/29rich.html

Mediaite - Frances Martel -, Oct. 29, 2011
Bill O’Reilly Scolds Leslie Marshall For Noting Koch Brothers Support The
Tea Party
http://tinyurl.com/3vzjhjk

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By heterochromatic, October 30, 2011 at 11:33 pm Link to this comment

——Oh well at least the Maoists, and the Soviets reformed fairly peacefully,
and with much bloodshed. ——-


you can say that again.


but don’t.

you haven’t demonstrated in that comment that you’ve even slightly more a clue
than have the people whom you’re castigating.


bury your Glenn Beckish buffoonery

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By theRightRadical, October 30, 2011 at 11:25 pm Link to this comment

Thirty years?  Hardly this has been a good hundred year run.  This is the end of JM Keynes, and Irving Fisher.  This is what happens to a top down managed societies, that refuse to free themselves. 
You all want the state in charge?  This is what you get. Fucking chaos.  Oh well at least the Maoists, and the Soviets reformed fairly peacefully, and with much bloodshed. 
But probably not here.  Nope the American left and right has so fucked this country, with their misplaced beliefs, that the system could reform ‘us’. 
You gave it unlimited power to control, regulate, tax, police, and observe.  Horse shit this being thirty years in the making, they were just making it a more efficient liberty robbing machine. 
You fucks can’t even get the dates right, because that wouldn’t fit your narrative.  It couldn’t be the glorious “progressive” era that was the start of our trouble, oh no. 
They were bringing us enlightenment.  They are going to reform “us” and the world for that matter.  Now they eat us alive. 
Fuck you all, and fuck the worthless state you worship.  Thanks from the bottom of my heart for empowering those, with less morals then a highway robber.

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By heterochromatic, October 30, 2011 at 10:42 pm Link to this comment

Ana—- You’d think the whole county would blow up!
——-


lotta people think it has or will.


——-

now you know better than to float that as a comparison and you know that there’s
at least three big differences.

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By Leefeller, October 30, 2011 at 9:53 pm Link to this comment

heterochromatic, maybe the Tea Party doesn’t work for the Koch Brothers, like they are not on the payroll, it is more like how the Red State Governors get their marching orders from special interests, like ALEC, Norquest and others.  Come on every Red State has done almost the exact same thing, from what I understand ALEC writes the programs and the Governors ask how high. Can we call it beholding or cronyism or pleasing their benefactors? No its not like working on a payroll.

The Agendas appear lock step alike without the jack boots. What about making it harder for people to vote in the Red States? How about attacking government workers in the Red States? How about attacking collective bargaining, attacking education in the Red States? I do not know about some other people out there in never never land,  but the Red States seem to have marching orders from someone and I doubt they all collectively grabbed what they are doing out of their asses?  No it was choreographed by their benefactors, but they do not work for them, just like politicians do not work for the 99 percent!

What the hell do you think people are protesting about!

Get the money out!

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By Anarcissie, October 30, 2011 at 9:26 pm Link to this comment

As it happens I was up in Westchester this afternoon where the power is largely out due to the unusual weather, and of course there are gasoline generators humming along all over the place.  You’d think the whole county would blow up!

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By OzarkMichael, October 30, 2011 at 9:17 pm Link to this comment

This is one example[violence/crime/anarchy by OWS] of hundreds from every city Occupy has ‘occupied’. We now have no right to suggest the Tea Movement was dangerous.

                          -IMax

Imax, you dont understand that the Tea Party is dangerous. Truthdig says so. OWS is safe because they are the real people. Leefeller believes it heart and soul. Follow his example. Dont let the complicated facts get in your way. You are not much opf a Leftist if you do that.

OWS was just the 200 at Zuccotti Park, which initially was white college grads without jobs, several of whom have some interesting communist and anarchist type ideologies. Which of course they were instructed not to talk about. “Dont say it, bro!”

They were of course hoping for widespread support across the nation and even the world.

They got what they wanted. As a result, whenever we tally the strength of OWS we have the 99% Everyone Occupy Everywhere, including all the misbehaving and law breaking folks. We include the protests all over the world. We even include normal folks who think Wall Street shouldnt have been bailed out. This is big! This is the power of the Left at last!

True, part of the tally that gets OWS to 99% is David Duke(big supporter) and other Nazis, anti-semites, criminals, predators, propagandists, speculators(George Soros who is positioned to make billions), union thugs, mobsters, malcontents, and a cadre of violent Leftist radicals who feel the revolution is at hand. There are many OWS crimes and OWS confrontations, and there will be more soon.

Dont worry about any of that. Anarcissie will explain that any violence has nothing to do with the Occupy movement. Anything bad that happens is because there are conservative ‘agents’.

At times there are so many rather obvious bad people doing bad things that the ‘agent’ theory falls apart, and that makes the morality of OWS look a little less than pristine. Not to worry. 

When we want to gauge the morality of Occupy Wall Street, we dont count those people. Nor do we count the anarchists in Rome who broke things and torched cars. We only count the 200. Well, not all of them. Only the nice ones. But we dont even count them all the time, we only attribute their behaviour to OWS if they are lookin’ rightious and peaceful. If they get caught lying or threatening someone we temporarily exclude them from OWS today even though we counted them as OWS yesterday and we will again count them as OWS tomorrow.

Its not hard to understand, Imax. You just need more faith in the holy cause, a la Eric Hoffer’s True Believer.

Take Leefeller for example. He is able to embrace all the contradictions and double standards without hesitation. Leefeller accepts that there is no standard to judge OWS by. However, the strict standard he used to judge the Tea Party still stands. 

Imax, arent you mad at Wall Street? Do you want to change the system?(I dont mean by voting, voting is for conservatives) If so, stop thinking of yourself as an individual who has to distinguish between right and wrong. Escape your flawed self by creating an imaginary self and join the collective whole that is called ‘the 99%’. Drink your kool-aid like a good True Believer.

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By heterochromatic, October 30, 2011 at 9:05 pm Link to this comment

Leefeller—- They work for the Koch Brothers

———

no, Lee. The tea partiers do not work for the Koch brothers…..or do you think that
everybody protesting Global Warming “works for” Al Gore?

does OWS work for the people who sent them half a million bucks?

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By Leefeller, October 30, 2011 at 7:56 pm Link to this comment

Thirty years of greed, says it all, I mean for years everyone was saying all you need to do is follow the money !Far as I can tell the Tea Party is just an extension of the problem.  They work for the Koch Brothers, who are people too! Then we have unbalanced and the beacon of fairness Fox News as another Tea Bag supporter!

If thirty years of greed had not come to fruition, I doubt there would be an Occupy Wall Street right now. Many people are feeling the inequality fostered upon them just like someones foot is planted on their necks. (guess who?)

Any more more dick wad persons out there, try to blarny me and say we live in a democracy, I will tell them as politely as I can, ...to get their heads out of their asss!  Talking about heads where the sun don’t shine, now I see OM is an expert on defining Fascism, while he is also an expert on liberalism, and all things left, along with his inordinate ability to tell what other people are thinking. Actually he is the kind of expert who I doubt could find black berry seeds in raccoon shit!

Inequality is affecting many people, just not all the people just yet, I suspect it is only going to get worse. One only need listen to the clowns running for president on the Republican Ticket. All Regulations are bad,  Social Security is a Ponzi Scheme, Medicare is sucking the country dry, while the tax paying populsis is paying money for the wealthy to play games with derivatives and absolutely no mention lives and money wasted on stupid wars!

Looking the other way is what they would have all of us doing,... while they pick our pockets!

Get the money out!

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By Billy Pilgrim, October 30, 2011 at 7:35 pm Link to this comment

The Tea Party that trolls like Ozark claim to
represent is an astro-turf movement financed by the
Koch brothers and populated by a group of dullards
with a fifth grade understanding of history, politics
and economics. That’s not even mentioning the racist
imbeciles who fashioned themselves as being real
patriots who brought weapons to the fake rallies
sponsored by Fox News shortly after Obama took
office. The Tea Part fakirs reached their nadir last
year with their idiotic response to the healthcare
reform act and subsequently elected a group of ill
educated morons to Congress.

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By OzarkMichael, October 30, 2011 at 4:53 pm Link to this comment

gerard said: “Truth is, most police have no idea how to react to non-violent protest.”

Untrue, OWS isnt merely protest. If you want an example of protest… the Tea Party was mere protest. If someone was unruly they were escorted out. If someone tresspassed or broke rules or laws they risked getting arrested.

Occupy Wall Street is different, its a confrontation. “Occupation” by definition starts with its toes over the line by commandeering private property. This alone places the cops in a difficult dilemma. Do they enforce the laws? Do they enforce the rules that everyone(normal dullards like myself… apparently Leftists are excluded from such considerations because their cause is a holy crusade) has to follow? And how do police perform their duties if the Occupiers dont cooperate?

The Tea Party didnt place the police in that situation. We made our point without such tactics.

Anarcissie described OWS as using ‘revolutionary tactics’. Yes she did, until she realized that effective agitprop demands a more ‘democratic’ phrasing.

The proper evaluation of the police is that they are having a hard time enforcing the law because the Occupation from the start has decided that some laws dont apply to them, and it is politically damaging for the police to enforce those laws.

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By Clash, October 30, 2011 at 3:59 pm Link to this comment

And then a grenade was thrown into the crowd trying to help the girl, but then Oakland has always been a rowdy town, they must have deserved it.
Every experience is subjective, how could it be other wise?

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By Shenonymous, October 30, 2011 at 2:30 pm Link to this comment

Yeah yeah yeah…lawlessness is local and not as dramatic as our
dear late Howard Zinn discussed.  He discussed in the abstract,
he was a marvelous but theatrical historian.  While it can be
framed metaphorically that there is a war between the classes the
conservatives created, the war between the 1%ers and the 99%ers,
everybody knows…these populous movements have an anarchistic
element to them and confrontation is part of the intention which
will certainly get someone’s attention, particularly the media, then
those to whom the anger is directed.  It could be dangerous as the
Jacobin Robespierre and company proved. This can be seen in every
rebellion that is going on in the world this year as well as those in
the past such as the one that happened in Argentina a few years ago,
http://pubs.socialistreviewindex.org.uk/isj94/harman.htm
“The [Argentinian] government and media began to speak of
‘prevailing anarchy’ and of the necessity ‘to re-establish order’.”
In Syria as we breathe, http://tinyurl.com/3ap9m9h  Anarchy in
Latakia, Syria Follows Protest in Daraa and Years of Human Rights
and Business Oppression – March 28, 2011; then more recently
all over the Middle East,
http://righttruth.typepad.com/right_truth/syria-watch/
“People everywhere deserve freedom. The people of Libya, the
people of Syria, the people of Egypt and anywhere else in the world –
they all deserve freedom and democracy. But as a result of drastic
revolution and change these countries are now in anarchy.” 

The defiance of authority was the initial impulse of Occupy Wall Street,
to protest the overlords of the financial industry. It would be ridiculous
to think otherwise, it is the f’n autocratic absolute authority of the
financial world through those whose political pockets the financiers and
bankers have stuffed. Anarchy is a useful tool to get emotions whipped
up to start a rebellion.  It is drama.  People love drama and are infected
by it.  Rebellions often turn into revolutions, to wit, the American
Revolution, the Russian Revolution…
http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/download/hrr-vol2.pdf 
The History of the Russian Revolution, and many around the world.  It is
surprising this high energy momentum is not intuited as the originating
motivation.  Anarchy loses its wind at the point when fear diminishes on
both sides since it is fear that motivates the uprisings and fear that
counter-reacts.

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By heterochromatic, October 30, 2011 at 2:05 pm Link to this comment

diamond, lovely history lesson, doesn’t have shit to do with what’s happened in
NYC in 2011.

you want to present examples of Stalinist forced relocation policies or the famine
that followed Mao’s failed Great Leap and show us how the OWS’s redistributive
intents will kill millions of New Yorkers?

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By heterochromatic, October 30, 2011 at 1:58 pm Link to this comment

OZ,, a heck of a lot of the people on the bridge actually thought that the cops
had approved marching down the roadbed.


and there sure as heck wasn’t any confrontation. that was as peaceful a mass
arrest as could be.

and there hasn’t been much of anything else in NYC.


more violence and confrontation, as I’ve said, at a Yankee-Red Sox game than
in more than a month in the Park.


You don’t want to go the route of picking out statements from a small minority
and attributing their positions to the whole group, I’m sure.
That’s not really my sense of who you are or who you want to be.

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By gerard, October 30, 2011 at 1:47 pm Link to this comment

Ozark Michael:  Nevertheless, and howsomeever, the facts are that an unarmed girl was “maced” by police armed forces, right? This was evidence of police resorting to violence, right?  Then in Oakland a guy already “down” was hit by a heavy object that fractured his skull, right?  He is still in the hospital, right?  This is over-reaction from police, right? 

Truth is, most police have no idea how to react to non-violent protest. They only know how to react to violence.  Why else do they come on wearing riot gear, armed with weapons, leading horses and dogs?Hence the temptation to induce violence so they can arrange to face something they understand and use all the expensive equipment cities pay for out of fear and trembling, graft and mismanagement.

The fault is in lack of understanding, and of appropriate police training. Or re-training.  They need to learn that nonviolent protesters are not “enemies.” Nonviolent protesters are trying to achieve political change WITHOUT using violence. If they could succeed, it would be better than violence, wouldn’t it?

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By diamond, October 30, 2011 at 1:20 pm Link to this comment

“Ana, how much can you complain about political enforcement of the fire laws, in this case? The police are NOT enforcing the law by allowing OWS to remain in occupation of Zuccotti Park.

That’s the overriding fact, Ana, and makes complaint about OWS being “picked on” sound hollow…”

Ah, yes those all-important fire laws. And if it hadn’t been the fire laws it would have been something else. This is just another example of the ‘lawless law’ that is always there to assist the rich and ruthless when they are out to suppress a revolt.

This, taken from Howard Zinn’s book ‘A People’s History of the United States’, is what lawless law looks like:

1.Child labour – ‘In the spring of 1903 I went to Kensington, Pennsylvania, where 75,000 textile workers were on strike. Of this number at least 10,000 were little children…Everyday little children came into Union headquarters, some with their hands off, some with their thumb missing, some with their fingers off at the knuckle’.

2.The use of military force against strikers – On the morning of April 20 1914, a machine gun attack by the National Guard began on the tents (of striking miners). The miners fired back. Their leader, a Greek named Lou Tikas, was lured up into the hills to discuss a truce and was then shot to death by a company of national guardsmen. At dusk the guard moved down from the hills with torches and set fire to the tents, and the families fled into the hills. Thirteen people were killed by gunfire. The following day a telephone linesman going through the ruins of the Ludlow tent colony lifted an iron cot covering a pit in one of the tents and found the charred and twisted bodies of eleven children and three women. This became known as the Ludlow Massacre.

3.Racist violence – In Tampa a race riot began when drunken white soldiers used a negro child as a target to show their marksmanship. Negro soldiers retaliated and then the streets ‘ran red with Negro blood’ according to press dispatches. This was, of course, a forerunner to the widespread use of white violence in the South-beating, terrorizing and setting police dogs on black Americans attempting to demand civil rights in the sixties.

4.Refusal to uphold the law – ‘The governor of Colorado asked for federal troops to restore order and Woodrow Wilson complied. This accomplished, the strike petered out…Sixty six men, women and children had been killed. Not one militiaman or mine guard had been indicted for a crime’.

One definition of Fascism is that a Fascist State believes that the people exist to serve the state while a democratic society believes the State exists to serve the people. By this definition the American Corporate State is Fascist and merely masquerades as democratic. It pretends to uphold ‘law and order’ while allowing widespread corporate and political malfeasance, illegality and abuse of human rights by the State.

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By OzarkMichael, October 30, 2011 at 1:07 pm Link to this comment

I said: “OWS seeks confrontation with the police, hoping for an overreaction or mistake on their part. Thats the whole point of OWS”

heterochromatic replies: “NO. There is almost none of that in NYC.”

First, “almost none” is a bit of a stretch. 700 arrests on the Brooklyn bridge doesnt count for much? Each arrest is a confrontation all its own. I would also point out that every arrest and every confrontation is well filmed and photographed and if an edited version looks like the police used force for no reason, it goes up on the internet or even on ever helpful MSM TV shows.

Every now and then a more complete video puts the arrests in context, like these two:

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/10/02/police-release-video-of-officers-warning-protestors-at-occupy-wall-street-march-across-brooklyn-bridge/

Second, OWS has become shorthand for the whole thing everywhere. Since Leftists include as part of OWS everyone across the country who supports NYC by Occupying their home town, I think it would be fair for me to include them. Plenty of confrontation going on out there.

Third, everyone knows what got OWS on the map, how it gained sympathy and support: when a girl was maced on the sidewalk. I am pretty sure i can find statements from OWS supporters who admit that, and even statements which admit they were seeking such a confrontation.

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By heterochromatic, October 30, 2011 at 12:42 pm Link to this comment

@ Clash, OK, you don’t mean to be humorous.


You’re serious and talking about a police state.

Uh-huh

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By gerard, October 30, 2011 at 12:41 pm Link to this comment

Facts are that a large number of youngish people all over the country are coming together to try to work out ideas and plans for a better future for themselves and for us all. There are factions in
this country, unfortunately, that do not want a better future for others because they already have it super-good for themselves,so why change? Extreme wealth cannot live without creating extreme poverty.
Knowledge cannot grow without freedom.Freedom cannot grow without democracy. It’s all one big ball of interdependent, maleable wax. “Class warfare” indicates that things are slipping apart and that one class or another is thinking in terms of war. War means killing, destroying, lying, cheating—anything but reasonable solutions.

The human race has reached a place where this kind of two-way, either/or thinking is too simple-minded to work for everybody. Newer, more complex ways have to be found. OWs wants to try to clear the road for all of us. Give them a chance.  It’s their future.
The status quo resists them because it fears change even though it realizes that fear is not adequate to the current need for change.
  NYC is a rich city where expensive conferences are arranged daily to discuss things as insignificant as “What is the best new color for next year’s lipstick?”
  Don’t tell me New York (and other cities as well) can’t find a place or places where these people in can work things out together indoors and point toward a more liveable future for everybody.

It’s a great opportunity for great country. A Second Constitutional Convention!  Hop to it, folks!  It’s our chance to help make history—and possibly to save many lives.

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By Clash, October 30, 2011 at 12:20 pm Link to this comment

It was not my intention to be humorous, the police state exist solely for the purpose of politics by other means. The pOlice are just one arm of many who’s intent has always been to serve the elite class and the laws they buy and sell. I think that the propaganda being used against the populace, ie.. their on our side, or they are worried about their jobs, or they were just dupes of the political elite etc..etc… is just so many more lies.

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By heterochromatic, October 30, 2011 at 10:59 am Link to this comment

——-Class warfare, you better believe it, the first shots have already been fired by
the fascist slaves, (cop)(pig)——


people could get confused and think that this isn’t some kind of attempt at humor.

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By OzarkMichael, October 30, 2011 at 9:59 am Link to this comment

I don’t see why Liberty Plaza is so different from the many other locations where I see people using portable generators, other than that it’s politically hot.  In any case, the objection to gasoline would not apply to propane or diesel (of any kind).

Except its a park, not a camp ground.

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By Clash, October 30, 2011 at 9:15 am Link to this comment

The decline and maybe the collapse of empire is not new, the decline and collapse of cultures is not a new phenomenon. Class warfare is not new only brought to the attention of the masses by the discomfort being perceived by a larger majority of the homo sapiens, who cling to the culture of rape death and murder of those they decided long ago to perceive were only objects to be used, or made to jump through hoops to provide proof and justification that the dominant culture is the only way to live life. That only the flawed type intelligence that homo sapiens posses, tightly intertwined with stupidity, and the belief in systems, politics, and religions including science, which have failed miserably to protect that which sustains life, has just now begun to become visibly perceptible to many more slaves of the empire, due to the reversal of their economic situations.

Until it becomes clearer to those who are unhappy about the circumstances they now find themselves living in, that the ideology of murder for resources, an economically class based system, the cult of scientific, materialist, instrumentalist, mechanistic, managerial machines will have their way. The dominant culture is destroying the living world and economic redistribution is about the silliest battle anyone could be fighting at this time, consuming more won’t repair what has been damaged.

Class warfare, you better believe it, the first shots have already been fired by the fascist slaves, (cop)(pig),they have shown were their loyalty remains, to their fascist leaders, The noble promise if not destroyed totally, has been damaged beyond repair.

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By heterochromatic, October 30, 2011 at 9:10 am Link to this comment

Ana, how much can you complain about political enforcement of the fire laws, in
this case?
The police are NOT enforcing the law by allowing OWS to remain in occupation of
Zuccotti Park.

That’s the overriding fact, Ana, and makes complaint about OWS being “picked on”
sound hollow…

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By Anarcissie, October 30, 2011 at 7:49 am Link to this comment

I don’t see why Liberty Plaza is so different from the many other locations where I see people using portable generators, other than that it’s politically hot.  In any case, the objection to gasoline would not apply to propane or diesel (of any kind).

The business about not cooking in the park is especially amusing since on any summer weekend you can drive around New York City and see hundreds of picnics where slabs of meat are being burned in the traditional manner.  The aroma of seared flesh mixed with that of the petroleum products used to ignite the charcoal used is one of the characteristics of summer in the city parks, at least the ones I live near.  The picnickers also use tents, tarpaulins and plastic sheeting to shield themselves from the elements, again with no interference from the authorities.

As usual, the laws are made and enforced politically.  More voting.

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By Lafayette, October 30, 2011 at 7:24 am Link to this comment

Exam: If one thinks a little deeper one could characterise it as” it’s okay for American Multi nationals to screw other countries just so long as we “average?” Americans get our share of the booty. After all that’s the American way.

Ignorant blathering-in-a-blog from the Looney Left.

International markets are highly competitive on a price-basis. Why American goods/services should have any particular advantage by “screwing other countries” is pure invective and without substance.

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By ardee, October 30, 2011 at 4:06 am Link to this comment

OWS seeks confrontation with the police, hoping for an overreaction or mistake on their part. Thats the whole point of OWS.

If I noted that this is nothing more than a crock of nonsense from an increasingly irrelevant source of right wing propaganda would it cause OM to rethink his tactics?

Of course not but worth the try anyway.

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By heterochromatic, October 29, 2011 at 10:59 pm Link to this comment

sorry Ana,  you can’t ask the City of New York to be more tolerant of OWS then
they have been… gasoline’s not a good idea in the Park and we’re still responsible
if a fire hurts some of the people.

(it’s not like everyone walking around there is exactly sober, either.)

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By Leefeller, October 29, 2011 at 10:14 pm Link to this comment

FYI: Biodiesel turns into Crisco and will not flow below at low temperatures, (seems circa under 40 degrees?)  so the generators would not have worked unless they mixed their biodiesel with diesel or kerosene. So much for being green, I have had this problem with tractors in the winter!

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By heterochromatic, October 29, 2011 at 8:17 pm Link to this comment

Oz

——OWS seeks confrontation with the police, hoping for an overreaction or
mistake on their part. Thats the whole point of OWS.——


NO.


There is almost none of that in NYC.

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By Anarcissie, October 29, 2011 at 8:11 pm Link to this comment

Biodiesel is, like, used vegetable oil.  Diesel fuel is not a fire hazard.  You can’t light it with a match; you have to vaporize it and compress it in a diesel engine to get it to burn.  The Fire Department and Bloomberg know this.  If they were actually concerned about fire, they would, at most, have removed gasoline or propane generators.  Of course, millions of people run gasoline and propane generators safely at their houses, yards, garages, work sites, and so on, even in New York City, without drawing the attention of the Fire Department.  Odd, isn’t it?  I wonder if they’ll outlaw bicycle generators next.

Ozark Michael—I think you have the wrong idea about the Occupation, but as I can’t read minds and display their contents I can’t prove it.

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By OzarkMichael, October 29, 2011 at 6:32 pm Link to this comment

The spokespeople for the groups in the various cities in the country ought to get out the news somehow even if it means MSM or any other daily news services a list of things we who cannot join them can send.

The MSM is doing its best for you:

CBS, NBC and ABC reported a mere 13 times on the tea party throughout all of its first year, 2009. In contrast, they ran 33 stories or segments about Occupy within 11 days.

So does the disparity in coverage mean Occupy is getting special treatment? Maybe, suggests the report. On CBS, NBC and ABC, most of the interview sound bites — 109 clips, or 87 percent — were from either protesters or supporters of Occupy, whereas only 6 percent were critical of the movement. Morning-show coverage has also been favorable, with seven guests expressing sympathy for protesters and none opposing or criticizing them. We don’t seem to remember the tea party getting such good press.

from
http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/10/28/102811-opinions-chart-ows-teaparty-graphic-and-text/


I think the results of voting, that is, police beating and jailing protesters, has already been noticed.
                      -Anarcissie

OWS seeks confrontation with the police, hoping for an overreaction or mistake on their part. Thats the whole point of OWS. Thats how you got on the map, thats how the movement grows. Dont pretend its just ‘protesting’ that brought the heat down on you. OWS creates confrontation, its called ‘revolutionary tactics.’ Remember? To say that voting is the cause of the arrests slides by the facts.

A little more honesty on your part is required, Truthdigger. Oh, but I forgot that we never had a discussion or debate because your communication is merely Leftist agitprop. Honesty isnt required for that, is it? Agitprop doesnt dig for the truth, it distorts truth for the sake of the holy Leftist cause. Remember?

Whatever propels your cause along is fair game for you. It is good for conservatives to be aware of that fact.

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By heterochromatic, October 29, 2011 at 5:15 pm Link to this comment

Ana——they were reported to be mainly gasoline-powered….with two using bio-
diesel.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/firefighters-police-raid-zuccotti-park-
generators-gas-canisters-cold-temps-threaten-occupy-wall-street-protesters-
article-1.968683?localLinksEnabled=false

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By Shenonymous, October 29, 2011 at 4:42 pm Link to this comment

Yikes, how bloody awful can humans be to other humans?  Don’t
answer that one.  I know…pretty dreadful.  I’ve seen pictures and
read about the horrors throughout human history that men do to
others.  I’m becoming more and more cynical as the years go by. 
Yeah, I will still worry about the protesters even if they have a decent
income and lots of property. 

Laugh laugh I have lots of olive oil in my pantry.  I will loosen the
corks or caps for which ever they have, that way I won’t have to
wonder every time I walk by if any has blown its lid. 

I googled:  “How to stay warm in Zuccotti Park protesting when it’s
snowing?” The first result was: http://markcrispinmiller.com/
There is a petition to sign to Bloomberg.  I don’t know if those petitions
ever do anything.  I get about 20 a week and I usually sign them anyway. 
I only checked out one more as I have to go off for the evening. But there
were 27,400 results.

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By examinator, October 29, 2011 at 4:32 pm Link to this comment

I’m somewhat bemused by the seeming hypocrisy in the focus of “liberals” in this OWS.The thrust of it appears to be “where is OUR piece of the action”.
If one thinks a little deeper one could characterise it as” it’s okay for American Multi nationals to screw other countries just so long as we “average?” Americans get our share of the booty. After all that’s the American way.
On one level at least the CORPORATE ethos is consistent “screw you all”
As a humanist I ask you what is wrong with this picture?  i.e. why aren’t we attacking the root cause?
Just wondering
examinator

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By heterochromatic, October 29, 2011 at 3:21 pm Link to this comment

Appearances are
everything.


stop repeating nonsense advertising copy.

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By Anarcissie, October 29, 2011 at 2:27 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous—It is my perception that the protesters, at least in Liberty Plaza, have money and plenty of stuff.  It’s not very pleasant sitting through the rain and snow on what is essentially an extended sidewalk, but it can be endured if one has adequate clothing and a little plastic sheeting.

Our dear mayor had the Fire Department take away their little vegetable-oil generators as a ‘fire hazard’, doubtless in anticipation of the present weather.  Be careful if you have a bottle of olive oil in your cabinet—it may explode at any moment!

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By Shenonymous, October 29, 2011 at 12:45 pm Link to this comment

The practice of self-deprecation of calling oneself a dullard is a
shabby way to try to levitate oneself in a social forum such as this
one.  It gives the impression of being unethical.  Appearances are
everything.

With the legitimate documentation of the inequality in the United
States between the beyond belief polarity between the wealthy and
those who cannot be included in that group, where the wealthy is
represented by the number 1% and those outside the modern
American Deutscher Bund by the number 99%, the following can
be added to give at least some comfort of justification for the OWS
protesters in the March/April 2011 issue of MotherJones, can be seen
eleven charts that as they say “explain what’s wrong with America.”
http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph

These people who are braving the severe weather that has started and will
without a doubt get worse as the days go by shall need some help.  The
spokespeople for the groups in the various cities in the country ought to get
out the news somehow even if it means MSM or any other daily news services a
list of things we who cannot join them can send.  The shelters in those cities
need to help coordinate.  These people are demonstrating and speaking out for
us of the 99%, not only on their own behalf.  I certainly hope the Salvation Army is
there to help, and the Red Cross and other shelters as these are indeed war zones
as the police presence and inordinate use of police force has determined that state
of affairs.

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By dean1981, October 29, 2011 at 11:00 am Link to this comment

Another point about income inequality: while the US was comparable to other
countries in 1950, it has since become an outlier:

      http://www.verisi.com/resources/us-income-inequality.htm#s2

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By Anarcissie, October 29, 2011 at 9:23 am Link to this comment

OzarkMichael, October 28 at 6:08 pm:

‘... If OWS is unexpectedly successful with more direct actions and more demands, you might find that millions and millions of conservatives(mostly backwoods dullards like myself) wont be willing to accept second class status and merely vote while OWS uses ‘demands’ to achieve success. ...’

I am somewhat surprised by this remark, because one of the initial and often-repeated complaints about OWS was that it did not make demands.  Demands were demanded!  The Wall Street General Assembly dutifully went to work on a list of demands, but I don’t know if they got anywhere, or if anyone cares.

I think the results of voting, that is, police beating and jailing protesters, has already been noticed.  There is kind of a standoff now; the authorities are unwilling to use sufficient violence to end the protests because they are afraid of unintended consequences.  The beatings and jailings are not because of the protesters’ legendary ‘demands’, other than the right to assemble and protest and for the space to do it in.  It is because they dare to exist at all.

As has been tediously said several thousand times, the main message of Occupy Wall Street is the medium—discussions in which non-elite members of the community are allowed to speak.  Here is one, for example: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/10/occupywallstreet-alternative-banking-working-group-meeting-in-nyc-sunday-3-pm.html

Imagine, the peons are daring to discuss money!  Don’t they know they’re supposed to have some authorized authorities tell them what to think?

Meanwhile, the temperature is 37 degrees and wet snow is falling on Liberty Plaza.  The protesters endure.

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By Shenonymous, October 29, 2011 at 8:53 am Link to this comment

Mythical rules are rules that are of the species of on-the-spot-
invented rules that allow mythical battles very much like designed
computer wargames.  Computer wargames is a genre of imaginary
military exercises.  All wargames are concerned with military
operations to conquer or inflict harm or death on opponents,
whether or not the occupation of time is used by hobbyists or
real military strategists and contains a strong appreciation for the
emotions and the expenditure of physical energy of engaging in
war.  It is a strategy definitely calculated to disarm one’s perceived
opponent either physically or mentally.  To violently, even if
metaphorically, throw them off course.  Euphemistically wargames
are called conflict simulations (consims).  So to talk about mythical
rules when discussing political movements is to speak the language of
consims.  All consims involve some feature or quality of human behavior
directly related to the involvements of war.

Furthermore, the idea of rules requires two things, intention and consent
of the principals involved.

Invention of a kind of political hippodrome in framing a discussion, for
the express purpose of setting up one’s personal advantage, and the
improvisation of rules, made up on the spot, require a stronger version
the two requirements.

While some amount of basic narcissism is healthy, of course, when a
person is slightly absorbed in him/herself but an unhealthy case of total
concern is at the core of extreme narcissism and is called an egotistical
preoccupation with self, personal preferences, aspirations, needs,
success, and how he/she is perceived by others.  Might there be some
cases of egotism on this forum?

This observation leads to what seems the need for a discussion of
the concept of fairness.  Fairness is a quality of being free from bias
or injustice, of holding evenhanded treatment of all the members of
a society as a virtue.  Fairness is an abstract principle often and also
applied to game theory for achieving fair division, aka cake-cutting,
that is the preliminary division of game pieces and territory where all
players believe they have an equal chance at winning.  In economics it is
a principle that is used to assess the equal allocation of goods; in terms
of the law, it is applied to justice; and in social justice, it generally means
the principle of equality and solidarity, which is the integration of the
members of a society that binds them to one another and perceives the
value of human rights, recognizing the dignity of each and every human
being.  Fairness in the context of this article is associated with justice
and social justice specifically.  The attempt to browbeat someone into a
“mythical battle” without their agreement is neither fair nor just.  So it
also seems a discussion to better understand justice in the abstract is in
order.

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By fuzzydbear, October 29, 2011 at 5:04 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

TAX STRIKE! Let their corporate criminal
bosses/bankster robbers PAY their salaries, healthcare
and pensions!!!! Get the occupiers OUT of OUR offices
and buildings! OWH!, Shut off the electricity in OUR
offices and buildings! We PAY for it !!! Let the
corporate traitors and bankster thieves pay for their
own funds for their world domination agendas!! BOTH
parties belong to traitors! Ron Paul is our ONLY hope
of restoring a FREE society!

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By heterochromatic, October 28, 2011 at 10:50 pm Link to this comment

You Jon Kace etc

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By heterochromatic, October 28, 2011 at 10:48 pm Link to this comment

John Kace you should apologize.

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By heterochromatic, October 28, 2011 at 10:47 pm Link to this comment

Kace you should apologize

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By Shenonymous, October 28, 2011 at 8:04 pm Link to this comment

It’s you, John Kace.

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By John Kace, October 28, 2011 at 7:33 pm Link to this comment

I think this webpage may be run by the Government. Very ineficient. If its me I apologise.

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By John Kace, October 28, 2011 at 7:27 pm Link to this comment

Why waste your vote? Vote anything but Republican and Democrat. How long till voting Socialist party is a crime? Unless we are all equal except that some are more equal. Vote Libertarian. Its just that once you are in that election booth, its like… I dont know Its kind of the same thing as an Athiest saying I dont believe in God for the first time and expecting to be struck dead. It doesnt happen and the world wont end if you dont vote Democrat or Republican.

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By John Kace, October 28, 2011 at 7:06 pm Link to this comment

Why waste your vote? Vote anything but Republican and Democrat. How long till voting Socialist party is a crime? Libertarian?

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By John Kace, October 28, 2011 at 7:02 pm Link to this comment

Why waste your vote? Vote anything but Republican and Democrat. How long till voting Socialist party is a crime?

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By John Kace, October 28, 2011 at 6:56 pm Link to this comment

Politicians getting elected and then not having to worry about anything for the rest of their lives as long as they toe the line is like volunteer firefighters looting a burning house. I get excited every election and then 90% of the people who vote vote for Republicans or Democrats. I would estimate that 98% on here will vote Democrat. You have no answers. Why waste your Vote? Vote anything except Democrat and Republican.

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By John Kace, October 28, 2011 at 6:49 pm Link to this comment

Politicians getting elected and then not having to worry about anything for the rest of their lives as long as they toe the line is like volunteer firefighters looting a burning house. I get excited every election and then 90% of the people who vote vote for Republicans or Democrats. I would estimate that 98% on here will vote Democrat. You have no answers.

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By Anarcissie, October 28, 2011 at 6:28 pm Link to this comment

heterochromatic—I think there’s a distinct problem in both the media and electoral politics in that so many ideas, positions, interests and desires are ruled off the board from the beginning, even when held by a large segment, indeed, even a majority of the population.  I think this is what has caused the surprising response to the Occupations on the part of liberals and other mainstream types.  Without that response, most people would never have heard of Occupy Wall Street, and they would have soon been hauled off.  As one experienced activist shrugged when arrested on Brooklyn Bridge, ‘Go to Little Italy, get a gelato.  Go to a demonstration, get busted.’  Things have turned out very differently, of course.

I’d like to believe that the media have fundamentally changed due to the Internet; I’m always telling people that.  Yet we still observe that it was not until Anthony Bologna was gracious enough to pepper-spray a couple of harmless, unoffending girls, and the scene played on mainline television, that anything permeated to the general public.  So I guess people are still hooked on the tube.  It’s sad, but that’s what the evidence tells us.

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By OzarkMichael, October 28, 2011 at 6:08 pm Link to this comment

Leefeller said: “Crying for a level playing field, when the rules are rigged and broken is a fools comment.”

No, Leefeller. The first thing to establish is whether we are all going to play by the same rules, because we will eventually whether you like it or not.

Your answer from day one is that you are exempt from the rules that apply to me. That is why i dont care what ‘reforms’ you claim to promote, even if i support the reform, I cannot support that your side gets to break rules and ‘demand’, while my side has to meekly vote for what we want.

I would not support my own side if we broke rules to create confrontations with the police in order to gin up support for our ‘demands’. And I know you would agree, such methods are wrong… but only wrong for me, only wrong if conservatives employed them.

That imbalance and double standard is unacceptable. One more thing. It may seem to you that I am ‘crying’ for a level playing field. In fact I am explaining, demonstrating facts, and now I give a warning.

If OWS is unexpectedly successful with more direct actions and more demands, you might find that millions and millions of conservatives(mostly backwoods dullards like myself) wont be willing to accept second class status and merely vote while OWS uses ‘demands’ to achieve success.

And if OWS wishes to co-opt police and military, maybe conservatives can do the same. Maybe better.

Its possible we would beat you at your own game. What a nightmare that would be. You would call if fascism.

Now I want to know what you call it when your side does the same thing? You have no answer for that except insults. But that is the question.

I wrote a little story about a ‘fight in the street’  about this very topic, and it just sailed over your head. That was a few years ago.

There will be a level playing field, one way or another. If you insist that your power will be out in the street, I will ‘cry’ against that, I will warn against that method. I have done so for years. Because we will not stay in our homes quietly, meekly accepting whatever you dictate out in the street. Inequality like that cant last long.

The street is the level playing field of last resort.

I wrote a story for you on Truthdig a few years ago. It was written about the past but was also the future. I placed flowers where the Leftists fell, but I cursed their stupidity and short sightedness. Remember?

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By heterochromatic, October 28, 2011 at 5:46 pm Link to this comment

Marian—-it would take a heck of a lot of evidence to substantiate ......


“that not only the one with the biggest campaign budget wins, but also that there
is a correlation between the disparity in budget and the disparity in final votes.”

do you have figures for Bush/ Gore 2000?

I’v seen figures for money spent on tv ads that says that more was spent on behalf
of Gore, but total ad spending tilted heavily to Bush…...

yet Gore received more votes.

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By heterochromatic, October 28, 2011 at 5:34 pm Link to this comment

Ana——the “media” is disverse far more than it was and “the rich” do not control
it.


and for more than 100 years “the rich” were unable to control urban elections.
NYC nd Chicago were famous for how thoroughly ‘the rich” were frustrated by the
ability of the other party to buy votes with liquor, with graft and patronage jobs,
and with sheer hustle.

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By Anarcissie, October 28, 2011 at 4:50 pm Link to this comment

heterochromatic, October 27 at 6:17 pm:

‘Ana, as usual, thank you for a solid contribution.

It really will take a Constitutional amendment because the First Amendment won’t support the stifling of political speech inherent in the proposal.’

We have stifling of political speech already, and have had for a long time.  In fact, that’s one of the crucial issues in the Occupation.  See http://1freeworld.org/owsbx13.html which mentions among other things not only the denial of physical space to the lower orders, but the denial of discursive space in the media as well, along with the logical consequences thereof.

Democracy of the one person, one vote sort implies that either no one in the democratic community is going to be so rich or so poor that votes can be bought and sold, or that some sort of legal restraint will prevent the rich from entirely dominating the political institutions and the media, as is now obviously the case.

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By heterochromatic, October 28, 2011 at 3:52 pm Link to this comment

ardee, appreciate the insight, but the suggestion concerning the takeover of the
Dems was not mine.


I was quoting and responding to Nick Lento.

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By Marian Griffith, October 28, 2011 at 3:42 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

@heterochromatic
—- that conclusion doesn’t follow—-

Evidence of past several decades of (presidential) elections strongly suggests that not only the one with the biggest campaign budget wins, but also that there is a correlation between the disparity in budget and the disparity in final votes.
In other words, the amount of money a candidate has translates fairly linearly into votes that candidate wins. Which means that those who contribute most to a campaign ‘buy’ most votes, and if you donate 10000 times as much money effectively your vote is worth 10000 times as much. Not the one you cast at the ballot, but the number of people you have influenced into voting for the candidate you support.
(* all the you in the above explanation are generic you not you personally)


The underlying problem is that critical thinking is not a skill that is trained, or encouraged, in the chattel, but since we can not change that right away the short term fix would be to ensure that the rich can not (as easily) buy a disproportionate influence on the elections.

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By ardee, October 28, 2011 at 3:38 pm Link to this comment

heterochromatic, October 28 at 3:34 pm Link to this comment

——Why not WE take over the Democratic party from the ground up?

A question only asked by someone with no experience in the grassroots Democratic Party Clubs. The Party is strictly a top down organization, suggestions have nowhere to go and only requests for money and canvassing come down from above.

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By heterochromatic, October 28, 2011 at 3:34 pm Link to this comment

——Why not WE take over the Democratic party from the ground up?  It’s clear
that the vast majority of rank and file Democrats desire aggressive progressives in
office and that the PEOPLE are ready for transformative ch——

never overestimate the American people’s desire for transformative change….

many have, and many have always been wrong. Americans are gradualists.

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By Shenonymous, October 28, 2011 at 3:25 pm Link to this comment

Since the Republican Party has done a makeover, and is now the
Tea Party (the Republican Party no longer exists and needs to legally
change its name.  There no longer is a Grand Old Party, it is kaput!),
the Democrats need to change its name as well to what has already
been suggested earlier, The Progressive Party.  Or maybe The New
Progressives.  That way all those angry registered Democrats will
have an alternative and will have reason to shout in a louder voice. 
That will not be easy so Progressives need to unite.  By the way, Cenk
Uygur has started a PAC to submit an amendment to the Constitution
to end Corporate personhood.  This is a live wire action and he will need
lots of help and assistance. http://www.theyoungturks.com/ and the
petition site at http://www.wolf-pac.com/petition

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By warrenbuffet2, October 28, 2011 at 3:05 pm Link to this comment

The problem isn’t that the top 1 percent keep
winning…it’s that the 99 percent keep losing.
http://ezinearticles.com/?How-to-Induce-Lucid-
Dreams&id=6619174

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By Nick_Lento, October 28, 2011 at 2:33 pm Link to this comment

Robert Sheer says….

>>>Between 1979 and 2007, as the Congressional Budget Office reported this
week, the average real income of the top 1 percent grew by an astounding 275
percent. And that is after payment of the taxes that the superrich and their
Republican apologists find so onerous.”<<<

So Robert does this mean that you are conceding that there IS a difference
between the two parties?  Does it mean that you approve of the idea that
Republicans (especially the hard right kind…which is now the vast majority) should be voted out of office and Democrats (especially progressives) should be voted INTO office?  And if not, why not?

Why not WE take over the Democratic party from the ground up?  It’s clear that the vast majority of rank and file Democrats desire aggressive progressives in office and that the PEOPLE are ready for transformative change!

So whaddaya think Robert???????

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By Alan MacDonald, October 28, 2011 at 12:35 pm Link to this comment

Unfortunately, many do not understand the opposition—- and even what it must be called to successfully (and non-violently) confront it.

As I have said repeatedly, Occupy is not facing merely a government which has exceeded its powers, but is still a ‘government’.

The Occupy movement, whether it knows it or not, has started something that is threatening the disguised, violent, “Vichy” global EMPIRE that controls the carcass of our former country and several governments through-out the world.

This is not a confrontation with an aberrant, or even abusive, government—- but it is confronting the global Empire.

Most brave Occupiers may not understand this confrontation, but the global Empire sure as hell understands—- and it is playing hard-ball, whereas many in Occupy, and many web-sites like OEN, Nation, and others who think the Occupy movement is not facing a real Empire, don’t have any idea how serious this coming Insurrection is “Against Empire”.

This confrontation is not just against some bad politicians, and greedy Wall Streeters in nice suits, nor any other assortment of bad corporations, banks, etc. etc.

It’s a confrontation “Against Empire”—- a global Empire that makes their polite and polished shills, hangers-on, greedy boys, and mouthpieces look like choir-boys.

This is a down and dirty confrontation with a disguised global Empire that will “do anything to win”, and yet most, like Rob at OEN and John at the Nation, and many posters here, fail to see it as such a serious/deadly battle, and don’t think it necessary to call it a confrontation with ‘Empire’—- and don’t, for some strange reason, want to allow the endangered young, brave Occupiers to overtly use and “out” the Empire by calling it an Empire.

Unfortunately, the ONLY way to confront Empire without getting killed by Empire is to loudly, repeatedly, publicly, and overtly call it out as precisely the EMPIRE that it is and thus engender all the vast majority of the public citizens, the full 99%, to actively support the confrontation with EMPIRE, because the vast majority of Americans of all stripes hate EMPIRE and will join the fight only when they understand that the common foe is EMPIRE!

Have I said EMPIRE enough times?  Don’t want to be a pain.  But any who do not yet understand that this confrontation of Occupy has to be overtly “Against Empire”, articulate that they are Occupying Empire, and confront violent Empire non-violently is a danger to the brave young people who are in Empire’s line of fire.

People who don’t think that Empire is the issue, and that don’t think that we have to shout out that this is a confrontation against a very violent and deadly Empire, are like a platoon leader in WWII fighting the Nazi Empire who say’s, “don’t worry guys, its just another civilian army like ours, they’ll fight fair, so don’t worry about poking your head up, because they’re not an evil Empire and they’ll respect non-violence.”

This is not a fair fight.  The opposition is not just a bunch of Wall Street crooks in suits.  This is a confrontation with EMPIRE.  And the only way to win this non-violently, and not to get blow away by the violent EMPIRE, is to call it an EMPIRE and get all the people/troops on the side of the 99%.

Thinking it is just a polite confrontation with oligarchy (whatever the f… that is) or Wall Street greed, or plutocracy (whatever the f ... that is), is only going to get alot of Occupiers crushed (literally)————AND also it’s not going to work unless you identify and gather massive support by calling the opposition by it’s real name, EMPIRE.

The Best advice I can give.

Best luck and love to Occupy,

Alan MacDonald

Liberty, democracy, and the “Multitude”
over
violent/Vichy
empire

“Occupy the Empire”

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By Leefeller, October 28, 2011 at 12:22 pm Link to this comment

From what I understand it took a fruit vendor killing himself because of government harassing for permits to promote the Egyptian Arab Spring. Looking at the Oakland way of handling things, sadly Occupy Wall Street (Oakland) has had an incident with an individual Iraq War veteran Scott Olsen, he seems to be doing better but the incident should never have happened, and I blame the Mayor and the police of Oakland for their fascist way of finessing the situation, a disgusting form of leadership back from the 1930’s

Far as I am concerned people have a right to protest. The other evening Racial Maddow gave a great comparison to the Oakland theatrical show,  to what happened to the WW I Veterans who were denied a promise by their government so they camped in Washington DC. The government action of the 1930’s similarities to Oakland’s were uncanny and suggests things are not much different.

Right now the good news is Scott Olsen is fairing better and I hope he returns to fight the fight for the 99 percent!  After all even without a Supreme Court Ruling, I believe War veterans are people too!

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By BrooklynDame, October 28, 2011 at 9:34 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

We’ve been duped for the last 30 years into thinking that capitalism is serving us
well.  It’s not—especially in its current form which isn’t real capitalism: it’s pure
greed, legal loopholes and scheming that have resulted in privatised profits and
socialised pain.  Deregulation, gross inequality and a growing underclass are now
the result.
http://borderlessnewsandviews.com/category/the-bk-dame-says/

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By litlpeep, October 28, 2011 at 8:36 am Link to this comment

RE: “Those three decades of rampant upper-crust greed unleashed by the Reagan Revolution of the 1980s will be well marked by future historians recording the death of the American dream.”

Shall be begin the contest for the best epitaph for that lost middle class’s tombstone?

Will it be something like, “Ronald Reagan started that anti-American tidal wave of war against the US middle class, a war sustained by bipartisan congresses fat with Bush-league “representatives” and approved by nonpartisan courts, a war boosted to a crest by Bill CLinton’s and Phil Gram’s deal to kill Glass-Steagall, a wave washing that whole class into its grave by Barack Obama.  RIP

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By heterochromatic, October 28, 2011 at 8:32 am Link to this comment

Marian——The richest 0.1pct can as easily contribute a million dollar as I can
donate one hundred. But their vote should not be worth ten thousand times as
much as mine.
.......


that conclusion doesn’t follow

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