Top Leaderboard, Site wide
September 23, 2014
Truthdig: Drilling Beneath the Headlines
Help us grow by sharing
and liking Truthdig:
Sign up for Truthdig's Email NewsletterLike Truthdig on FacebookFollow Truthdig on TwitterSubscribe to Truthdig's RSS Feed

Newsletter

sign up to get updates


Why Are We Bombing Syria?
The Mideast Horrors Grow




A Chronicle of Echoes


Truthdig Bazaar more items

 
Report

‘They Kill Alex’

Email this item Email    Print this item Print    Share this item... Share

Posted on Sep 5, 2010
Courtesy of the Arredondo family.

By Chris Hedges

Carlos Arredondo, a native Costa Rican, stands in a parking lot of a Holiday Inn in Portland, Maine, next to his green Nissan pickup truck. The truck, its tailgate folded down, carries a flag-draped coffin and is adorned with pictures of his son, Lance Cpl. Alexander S. Arredondo, 20, a Marine killed in Iraq in 2004. The truck and a trailer he pulls with it have become a mobile shrine to his boy. He drives around the country, with the aid of donations, evoking a mixture of sympathy and hostility. There are white crosses with the names of other boys killed in the war. Combat boots are nailed to the side of the display. There is a wheelchair, covered in colored ribbons, fixed to the roof of the cab. There is Alex’s military uniform and boots, poster-size pictures of the young Marine shown on the streets of Najaf, in his formal Marine portrait, and then lying, his hands folded in white gloves, in his coffin. A metal sign on the back of the truck bears a gold star and reads: “USMC L/CPL ALEXANDER S. ARREDONDO.”

“This is what happens every week to some family in America,” says Carlos. “This is what war does. And this is the grief and pain the government does not want people to see.”

Alex, from a working-class immigrant family, was lured into the military a month before Sept. 11, 2001. The Marine recruiters made the usual appeals to patriotism, promised that he would be trained for a career, go to college and become a man. They included a $10,000 sign-on bonus. Alex was in the Marine units that invaded Iraq. His father, chained to the news reports, listening to the radio and two televisions at the same time, was increasingly distraught. “I hear nothing about my son for days and days,” he says. “It was too much, too much, too much for parents.”   

Alex, in August 2004, was back in Iraq for a second tour. In one of his last phone calls, Alex told him: “Dad, I call you because, to say, you know, we’ve been fighting for many, many days already, and I want to tell you that I love you and I don’t want you to forget me.” His father answered: “Of course I love you, and I don’t want—I never forget you.” The last message the family received was an e-mail around that time which read: “Watch the news online. Check the news, and tell everyone that I love them.”

Twenty days later, on Aug. 25, a U.S. government van pulled up in front of Carlos’ home in Hollywood, Fla. It was Carlos’ 44th birthday and he was expecting a birthday call from Alex. “I saw the van and thought maybe Alex had come home to surprise me for my birthday or maybe they were coming to recruit my other son, Brian,” he says. Three Marine officers climbed out of the van. One asked, “Are you Carlos Arredondo?” He answered “yes.”

Advertisement

Square, Site wide
“I’m sorry, we’re here to notify you about the death of Lance Cpl. Arredondo,” one of the officers told him. Alex was the 968th soldier or Marine to be killed in the Iraq war.

Courtesy of the Arredondo family.

“I tried to process this in my head,” Carlos says. “I never hear that. I remember how my body felt. I got a rush of blood to my body. I felt like it’s the worst thing in my life. It is my worst fear. I could not believe what they were telling me.”

Carlos turned and ran into the house to find his mother, who was in the kitchen making him a birthday cake. “I cried, ‘Mama! Mama! They are telling me Alex got killed! Alex got killed! They kill Alex! They kill Alex! They kill Alex!” His mother crumbled in grief. Carlos went to the large picture of his son in the living room and held it. Carlos asked the Marines to leave several times over the next 20 minutes, but the Marines refused, saying they had to wait for his wife. “I did this because I was in denial. I think if they leave none of this will happen.” Crazed and distraught with grief, the father went into his garage and took out five gallons of gasoline and a propane torch. He walked past the three Marines in their dress blues and began to smash the windows of the government van with a hammer.

“I went into the van,” he says. “I poured gasoline on the seats. I pour gasoline on the floor and in the gas tank. I was, like, looking for my son. I was screaming and yelling for him. I remember that one day he left in a van and now he’s not there. I destroy everything. The pain I feel is the pain of what I learned from war. I was wearing only socks and no shoes. I was wearing shorts. The fumes were powerful and I could not breathe no more, even though I broke the windows.”

As Carlos stepped out of the van, he ignited the propane torch inside the vehicle. It started a fire that “threw me from the driver’s seat backwards onto the ground.” His clothes caught fire. It felt “like thousands of needles stabbing into my body.” He ran across the street and fell onto the grass. His mother followed him and pulled off his shirt and socks, which were on fire, as he screamed “Mama! Mama! My feet are burning! My feet are burning!” The Marines dragged him away and he remembers one of them saying, “The van is going to blow! The van is going to blow!” The van erupted in a fireball and the rush of hot air, he says, swept over him. The Marines called a fire truck and an ambulance. Carlos sustained second- and third-degree burns over 26 percent of his body. As I talk to him in the Portland parking lot he shows me the burn scars on his legs. The government chose not to prosecute him.

 


New and Improved Comments

If you have trouble leaving a comment, review this help page. Still having problems? Let us know. If you find yourself moderated, take a moment to review our comment policy.

By REDHORSE, September 12, 2010 at 2:03 pm Link to this comment

THE TRUTH ACCORDING TO REDHORSE


    When the lines of demarcation that define Natural Law and Human Moral/Spiritual values are violated, we enter a realm of brutal chaos and consequence, which reorders and redefines human reality, and the terms of survival.

    Technological advance in world communication, medicine, travel, weaponry, and exploitation of the natural world, without regard to consequence, enabled an exponential explosion in Human population, as it outstripped the legitimacy of many extant political ideologies. The totality of Man/Womankind has been propelled into a new time.

    The Natural World has already begun to reorder itself and may produce environmental cataclysm. The present insane propagandist exploitation, of national/ethno/religiosuperstitious fear and ignorance, and the overt dismantling of free societies and their Constitutions, by world financial oligarchical families and corporate industry, for personal gain, at the expense of human evolution, suffering, and natural resources, is no longer viable, can only be maintained at gunpoint, and ensures world holocaust. Both the Earth and Man/Womankind are in peril. They are both, literally physically and spiritually on the razors edge of full conflagration. (Again, I urge you to remember the Norwegian Rat study.)

      No human being now alive is untouched by worldwide GCC, social disintegration, starvation, crime, genocide, outright torture and war. The possibility of human extinction, or at the least, the total failure of the human aspiration for individual creative freedom and descent into barbaristic hell has again emerged. A new Consciousness, perhaps World, most likely Universal, has demanded recognition as the new lodestar of human moral purpose and interaction. Hence, the dreams of apocalypse, that mask the recognition that an old world has died, and, the longing for the new one to be born.

      Birth is bloody and painfull. There is no stopping the future. Change or die. I pray, that together, we choose life.

Report this
BR549's avatar

By BR549, September 11, 2010 at 5:06 pm Link to this comment

MoonRaven,

The tenor of my dialogue with you was only throwing back in your face that which you so easily felt the need to throw in ours. As NG had stated, it wasn’t his votes that caused the problem. Neither were mine. You continue to call us eurotrash gringos and yet you have NO IDEA who either of us are or what our values are.

You spew this projection of hatred and racism and then accuse anyone who doesn’t see things your way as being part of what is quite obviously “your”  problem.

As NightGaunt had stated about himself, I too would be of service to anyone who needed it. If someone needed medical attention, whether they be black, white, hispanic, mestizo, or Ferengi, and I could help, they would get it. And if you weren’t spewing your lamentable caustic vitriol to the point where NightGaunt or I could recognize you, either of us might accidentally help you too.

As I said earlier, I also had a radiation overexposure and I still suffer the effects of it today. I could have dragged all that anger around with me or felt sorry for myself for decades, but instead, I had to realize that it was “I” who made the choice to enlist in the service, where the exposure had occurred.

I got over it, and it would be far healthier for you if you did also.

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, September 11, 2010 at 3:58 pm Link to this comment

If Obama‘s ethnicity is of any importance at all in this, ofersince72, use the “one drop rule” should put your mind at rest from this.

By moonraven, September 11 at 3:29 pm Link to this comment

BR and Night-Gaunt:

This will be my last communication to you two sanctimonious gringos.

Your racism is showing. I don’t want to be and work to not accidentally be. But I am a gringo so I am a racist genocidal killer in your eyes, sight unseen. Too bad dialog isn’t on your list. Just unfounded accusations. I am sorry for you in this. Maybe it was your bitterness that keeps you alive. I guess if the human race, or just all the gringos, are dead you will be satisfied. A sad reason to live.

As for your other projection—that it’s Indians who are the scalpers, please be advised to learn some history (and maybe along the way improve your seriously poor reading skills).  Scalping was introduced to this hemisphere by the Brits—who tried it out first on the Irish in one of the Irish rebellions against the colonial system. 

Wrong I said nor implied any such thing. That’s the problem of lumping all us gringos together as if we are eggs. Racists do that often, and are as wrong most of the time.

I have not voted for any of this nor the people who perpetuate it nor want the trashing of the planet nor all its people. But again your racism and deep hatred color just who and what gets what you call compassion. However if things turned out like “The Road” (either a meteorite or volcano in Yellow Stone) I would lend a helping hand, sight unseen. I have no emnity for you or why you hate. You have good reason, just not at me. [Can’t speak for BR]

You’re are a human being, so am I, why can’t I be a friend? If it is because I am a gringo and therefor a monster because of it, then you will spit on me or blow me up with extreme misplaced prejudice. I would never do the same. Very sad.

ofersince72, if you are a gringo then Moonraven will think the same of you. She has said as much. Good for Fidel now if we could just have that embargo lifted.

Report this
moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, September 11, 2010 at 12:08 pm Link to this comment

ofer72:

I HAVE health care—have only used acupuncture and homeopathy for more than 25 years now. 

But long live Fidel anyway (at 84 I guess he already has had a very long eventful life!)

Report this

By ofersince72, September 11, 2010 at 11:50 am Link to this comment

Hey Moon,

I never took you to be a racist,  and I will miss you,

and I too probably won’t be around to see how this

plays out ..................VIVA FIDEL….....!!!!!!!!!!!

(he would make sure you had health care)

Report this
moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, September 11, 2010 at 11:29 am Link to this comment

BR and Night-Gaunt:

This will be my last communication to you two sanctimonious gringos.

Both of you either have serious reading skills deficits, or you are just plain deliberately obtuse.

Projecting your racism onto me—instead of accepting that you are genocidal gringos and making some kind of repentance—is just a stall, just a cowardly clutching at straws when you have been caught with your pants down.

As for your other projection—that it’s Indians who are the scalpers, please be advised to learn some history (and maybe along the way improve your seriously poor reading skills).  Scalping was introduced to this hemisphere by the Brits—who tried it out first on the Irish in one of the Irish rebellions against the colonial system. 

They thought scalping was so much fun (almost as much fun as when they fried the potatoes that indigenous folks taught them to plant in our body fat!) that they revved up the process in North America—including imposing a shameful bounty system on native scalps that was widespread throughout the states at least until the end of the 19th century, and which is addressed starkly and artistically in one of Cormack McCarthy’s novels set on the Texas/Mexico border, Blood Meridian.

In short, I am the one who protects my scalp against the likes of you two—whose pitifully inflated egos will not allow you to accept the truth about not only your ancestors, but your current selves—the same selves that vote to keep the reservation APARTHEID system of genocide in the USA. 

(I hope you were not so fatuously hypocritical as to squawk about that sysetm in South Africa—after all their is virtually no difference between Pine Ridge and Soweto except by now Pine Ridge is probably poorer, per capita.)

No, I am not going to be “friends” with folks who are not friendly.  Nor should they expect friendship from me.

Nor do I want “help” from you.  I have no problems. I simply mentioned my age (66) and my chronic illness to point out the probable reality that neither I nor Fidel Castro will be around to see how the eurotrashing of the planet finally plays out—even though we would both like to be.

But if all actuarial bets are off and you do end up out there on The Road with me, do not try to abuse my supply of compassion—and do not have the temerity to pontificate to me how I should not be angry at you for the mess you are committed to continue making.

Report this

By ofersince72, September 11, 2010 at 11:26 am Link to this comment

The Veterans of Foreign War has got so close to

the government, you can’t distinguish between them, so

you really don’t know who they are representing.

Same with the NRA,  they are so close to the Republican

Party that they are a part of it,  so many times they

are lobbying, with your name on it, legislation that may

very well be against your better interest, and in fact

that happens.

Report this

By ofersince72, September 11, 2010 at 11:20 am Link to this comment

BR549

  It is my belief that you would be better off to make

a local club of gun owners rather than a National

Oranization.  The lobbying power of them is over rated.
(national organizations)

I feel the same way with Peace Organizations or even
the Veterans of Foreign Wars.
With the internet you can interact with other like
minded smaller oragnizations for lobbying.
With national organizations,  you often get exploited
without you even knowing it,  and get legislation lobbyed
in your behalf, that you might not like.

Report this

By ofersince72, September 11, 2010 at 6:20 am Link to this comment

The NRA has been to the Republican Party what the

race issue is to the Democrat Party….and it has all

been a collusional game by the duopoly.

The Republican legislatures don’t care about those

constituents just as the Democrat legislatures don’t

care any more about institutional racism than the Pubs.

It’s a game….all designed to keep the populace voting

Centrist for either faction of the DUOPOLY.

The whole populace has been skillfully duped for decades.
CONQUER…....CONQUER….DIVIDE….CONQUER…...DIVIDE….

Report this

By ofersince72, September 11, 2010 at 5:21 am Link to this comment

I have weapons, but don’t need the NRA.


  Today I am going outside with them today and

practice my ACUITY,  JD said it needs worked on.

The dogs will help me with the ACUITY too ! ! ! ! ! ! !

P>S>BR…...Caffeine is one of my last vices, please
don’t take away too,  I will have to take up womoen again
and thats much worse for you….......................

Report this
BR549's avatar

By BR549, September 11, 2010 at 2:54 am Link to this comment

Ofer,

As an NRA member and an Oathkeeper, what I am hearing in conversations with others is that many of them are far from being affiliated with either party. They’re fed up. A lot of these people are waking up real fast. That’s why I was really surprised to see the NRA having Palin and Beck speak at their latest get together. WTF were they thinking?

Hopefully, the NRA heads will get their heads out of their ass and start looking at alternatives to the current party problems, but right now they’re probably just trying to avoid any more restrictive legislation.

Report this

By ofersince72, September 11, 2010 at 2:20 am Link to this comment

And not to let you REPUBLICAN supporters off the hook,

you just watch you NRA members,  it will be the

Republican Party that finally comes in and attempts to

take your weapons away….They are not your friends.

This is inevitable, both parties, if we keep this

duopoly management team for the Oligarchs,  owners

of the Plutocracy and our debt.

Report this

By ofersince72, September 10, 2010 at 11:45 pm Link to this comment

The Party Bosses left us behind and went after the

middle of the road Centrist republican vote,  why should

you , if you are truly a progressive, still enable that

policy? 

P.S. Howard Dean also sucks ! ! ! ! ! !

Report this

By ofersince72, September 10, 2010 at 11:28 pm Link to this comment

There are a whole lot of votes out there like mine

that the Democrats are ignoring.  The Corporate powers

and Party bosses told them years ago don’t worry about

this vote, and I am not going to enable sick policies

that are destroying out country, nor are many others.

Just how many more lives need to be sacrificed while you

and others hopelessly wait for the Democrat Party to

do a facelift?  Any facelift that the Democrat Party

could possibly pull off from within the Party would take

decades to do, and even at that, it would mean winning

every primary by a real so called “progressive” candidate

We saw how the Democrat Progressive Caucuas circled

their wagons around Jane Harmon, a blue dog, when she

was challenged in her primary by a “progressive” Democrat

challenger.
The math don’t add up, can’t happen. If anyone really
wants a change of direction of the Democrat Party, it
will have to be done by external forces, just as it always has been.  More realistic and a hell of a lot
faster.

Report this

By ofersince72, September 10, 2010 at 11:04 pm Link to this comment

JD, this is for you…....


Ha, ha, you got fooled again.  You is fool. Ha, Rich

boss to smart for you.! !$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Report this

By ofersince72, September 10, 2010 at 10:49 pm Link to this comment

Does anyone else besides me see something wrong with
this.

I made one of my few monthly runs to town the other day,
in the grocery store, I noticed a bag of nice looking
naval oranges for $3.00, so I bought a bag to make some
smoothies with.  When I got them home and opened the bag
up, each orange was labeled with a grown in South Africa
sticker on it.
Anybody else see the absurdity in this?

Report this

By ofersince72, September 10, 2010 at 10:39 pm Link to this comment

But what we can , are able to thank the D E O C R A T S

for is a resurgence, vigor, and new life to the

close to bankrupted, hateful, almost dead REPUBLICAN
party.  (lets not give forget to give their MSM friends
their rightful credit in this also)

Report this

By ofersince72, September 10, 2010 at 10:18 pm Link to this comment

The IWW, the other powerful unions of the time, the
Socialist Party, are responsible for the NEW DEAL, not
the Democrats or FDR.

Report this

By ofersince72, September 10, 2010 at 10:14 pm Link to this comment

Nader fan or no

Ralph has a new article dated Sep. 11, 10

It is titled ..

Democrats’ Corporate Cocoon.

please read it, very insightful as always by Ralph.

Report this

By ofersince72, September 10, 2010 at 9:43 pm Link to this comment

BR549,

  are you, as me,  finding it more and more difficult

to talk policy and polictics without resorting to

sarcasm and tongue in cheek?

As dark as the scenery is right now, and with all the
death and destruction, poverty, hunger, unemployment,
and ect. ect. ect….
commentary and the MSMs have beome so “doublespeak”, that
it is like a real dark comedy show that deserves to be
treated as such!!!!!!!!!!!$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Report this

By ofersince72, September 10, 2010 at 9:35 pm Link to this comment

And that imposter “first” black president we have

is yet to invite ...H A R R Y….B E L A F O N T E

to the White House to give him the much deserved thanks

for his efforts.

(Is Obabla half white, or half black?)

Report this

By ofersince72, September 10, 2010 at 9:31 pm Link to this comment

Don’t want to forget my man B E L A F O N T E on this,

he had a whole lot more to do with Civil Rights

legislation than any Democrat did.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Report this

By ofersince72, September 10, 2010 at 9:27 pm Link to this comment

The Democrats did not “give” America Civil Rights
legislation…....

Dr. Reverend Martin Luther King, his generals, Lts.
and thousands of followers did. (millions)

Report this

By ofersince72, September 10, 2010 at 8:48 pm Link to this comment

Opposition the the Vietnam Occupation and destruction
of Vietnam did not come from the Democrats, it came
from the public, mostly anti-draft protesters.
(I still refrain from calling it a “war”.)  It was only
then that a few Democrats voiced and voted opposition.
We are well beyond those days, this is a new era.

Going backwards and arguing history serves no point
really.  We could pick this apart forever, such as
Kennedy putting off Civil Rights legislation as long as
he could.  Read “Parting the Waters, the History of the
Civil Rights movement through 1963.”
It won a Pulizer Prize but is over 1000 pages long and
a tedious read.

Report this
BR549's avatar

By BR549, September 10, 2010 at 3:31 pm Link to this comment

JD,
There is every likelihood that Ron Paul will run in 2012. I would hope that he parts company with the Republicans because, otherwise, they’ll just string him along and then dump him at the first opportunity and the American populace will be without any viable choice. We have some differences, for sure, but he’s as honest as they come and I’d take that in a heartbeat instead of the lying sacks of shit we’ve had since 1963.

Obama is a lost cause, along with any mold spore the Republicans manage to dig up out of the gutter. That would seem like a good reason to sit home and stare at the clouds, but NOTHING is going to change unless we do something different. If we keep voting for Democrats (or Republicans), we might as well be giving them a permission slip to continue the crimes they’ve been doing since Obama got in office, which are no different than their Republican counterparts during the eight years before that.

We need to vote for anyone except the Reps and the Dems and take our chances. What have we got to lose that we haven’t already lost? If the Reps or the Dems win, the American people will lose ........ again. As much as I believe that any one of their platforms is salvageable, the politicians within them are not, at least not now. Now, we have to clean house.

Report this
JDmysticDJ's avatar

By JDmysticDJ, September 10, 2010 at 3:01 pm Link to this comment

By ofersince72, September 9 at 1:42 am

It’s taken me this long to get through to this thread to reply to you. Sorry about the delay, I know that you’re eagerly awaiting my criticism.

“Lack of history concepts???  That would be you if you
believe your Democrat vote is going to stop a war.”

I am in complete agreement with your analysis and comments regarding the history of U.S. foreign policy and social justice failings, but your stated accusations against Democrats are overstated in the extreme, and your failure to recognize the dichotomy between Democrats and Republicans indicate that you have a distorted understanding of the history of that dichotomy.

Opposition to the Vietnam War came from Democrats, Opposition to the U.S. funding of death squads in Central America came from Democrats, Opposition to the funding of the Contras came from Democrats, the Opposition to Nuclear arms buildups came from Democrats, Opposition to many Cold War policies came from Democrats. You must know that of the 114 congress people who supported the Kucinich/Paul War Funding Bill over 100 were Democrats. The Democrats cut funding for the Vietnam War and the Contras; way, way, too late, but the fact remains that it was the Democrats who cut the funding.

I do agree that the actions of the Democratic Party throughout the Cold War and into the 21st Century have been horribly shameful, but that does not negate the well demonstrated fact that Democrats are more inclined to oppose War than the Republicans.

Your absolute denial that the Democrats were the driving force behind the Civil Rights Legislation and the War on Poverty shows that you are either guilty of demagoguery or ignorant of the facts. The Democrats gave us Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid and virtually all of the social safety net. All of these improvements in social justice were opposed by Republicans in lock step. The Democrats have historically been cursed with a right wing that has at many times supported the Republican agenda, that is a matter of historical record and it is tragic and shameful, but the fact remains that the Left of the Democratic Party has historically been anti-war, opposed to the Military Industrial Complex, Pro social justice etc. etc. Our nation has been moving to the right for over thirty years now, and that rightward shift seems to be accelerating. Our Nation desperately needs to move back towards the left. Counter productive hatred for Democrats and the resulting return to power of the Right will not achieve that goal. Political reality sucks, but it must be acknowledged.

I don’t believe that my Democrat vote is going to end the war. I do believe that voting for Democrats will move us closer to ending the war and that allowing the Republicans to take power will prolong, or expand the wars. I base that belief on the historical record, and current political realities. You refuse to acknowledge these realities, which causes me to believe your political acuity is lacking.

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, September 10, 2010 at 2:46 pm Link to this comment

I do not wish to be anyone’s enemy, especially since we know so little of each other. Shouldn’t we want friends instead of enemies? I have no problem and no need to retaliate. That would have been my ego responding which is needed but must be kept on a leash in order to be civil.

If I could illuminate all humanity (including myself) to full knowledge, compassion, empathy and wisdom in a single wish, I would do it forth with. Alas we must deal with what we have. Bitterness has its own reward as does selfishness, racism and hatred. Bitter harvests I do not relish nor need to grow or feed upon. We must heal first ourselves, then we can do it for others. Sometimes others can heal us. IMO always.

Report this
BR549's avatar

By BR549, September 10, 2010 at 1:20 pm Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt, September 10 at 4:39 pm
I found your response to Moonraven to be very much on target. I’m not sure what nasty epithets I might have used to counter her EuroGringo banter, but it’s obvious
that they aren’t even in my lexicon. If anyone was using racist comments, it was her. So be it. It’s her choice to carry that energy and she will probably go the grave
clutching someone’s scalp, even though his family came through Ellis Island in 1915. Rage is blind.

On the illuminist issue, let’s just drop it. We’re getting into petty semantics here.

Report this
JDmysticDJ's avatar

By JDmysticDJ, September 10, 2010 at 1:11 pm Link to this comment

ofersince72 (Cont.)

Regarding my awakening, it happened when I was a teenager. I have sacrificed continually since that time trying to get my fellow Americans to see the madness that has occurred and continues to occur. You have on other threads related your military experience, its clear to me that my awakening preceded yours.

Hedges anecdotal article about Alex and his father was intended to make his readers aware of the heartbreak associated with war. You equate Hedges with the worst of the worst for doing so; you strike me as being an irrational fanatic because of your attempt to demonize Hedges. You attack Oberman and Maddow and virtually everyone who doesn’t ascribe to your fanaticism. I, like you, find it very difficult to have much respect for young men who hire themselves out as killers. I believe that they are ignorant, and in many cases prone, or susceptible, to being guilty of horrendous war crimes. Incidentally, the worst of the worst U.S. soldiers in Vietnam collected ears, not scalps. Mai Lai 13, which was where Lt. William Calley performed his animalistic acts, was just one of many hamlets that experienced the same fate, whether from napalm or from massacre.

At long last ofer offers a theoretical solution to ending the wars and bringing the troops home. Never mind that it is a pipe dream that has almost no chance of coming to fruition. Personally I would support the coalition you conjure up, but it ain’t gonna’ happen, period.

Changing from a military economic employment system, as you call it, would require a gradual change from a military economic employment system, to a more rational and constructive economic employment system. Democratic proposals for job creation and increasing employment are inadequate and wrong headed, but even those meager proposals are obstructed by the Republicans. Bringing the troops home from Afghanistan and Iraq, would initially add a few hundred thousand to the current 15 million unemployed in our country, but it would not collapse our faltering economy, and the billions of dollars saved could be put to creating constructive jobs to rebuild our infrastructure and make us energy self sufficient, but this too is a pipe dream, as long as Republicans are in a position to obstruct.

I’ll go back to my initial comment, when I first started posting on this thread. Moral decadence is the disease; everything else is just a symptom of the disease. Personally, I don’t have much hope that we will be freed from the problems that plague us, but I will continue to advocate for what I believe is our best hope of doing so. We are indeed “Way Down in the Hole,” getting out of the “Hole” will not happen instantly, and it may never happen, but I will continue to advocate for what I consider to be the most rational course of action. Gradualism is tedious and frustrating, but it is preferable to surrendering to mayhem.

What will it take before the American people take to the streets and demand change? It will take an attack on Iran or a total financial collapse before the American people will take action, but by then it will be too late. Keeping the loonies out of power is of the utmost importance, and at the present time, voting Democratic is the only way to be sure that the lunatics don’t take over our government once again.

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, September 10, 2010 at 12:39 pm Link to this comment

And Darwin was completely full of shit:  It’s all about survival of the LEAST fit and the MOST ecologically destructive.

But, hopefully, not for much longer.

Well I am sorry for your problems Moonraven, I wish there was a way I could help. But you have done just fine without a gringo’s help. Good, more power to you. As for your reference to Darwin, he never said that, someone else did, he spoke of flexibility is the key to survival. Not as a parasite taking all and returning none. I like you have seen that humanity has crossed the line from an Alpha species (top of the chain) to an Omega species—-dangerous to itself and the balance of Nature. We are the 6th extinction. Intelligence, with opposable thumbs, made us the most dangerous life form on earth, and the least connected to the web of life, in our collective minds. We are all paying for it. Long term destruction for short term gain. [One of the major threats is extinction for us.]

True its always someone’s else fault we are in this mess. I didn’t have a direct hand but my ancestors did. All I can be is better than them. Who has told you how to be a better Indian? If they do they are fools. I hope you don’t automatically ;think all gringos are the same? That is a habit of racists. A bad habit for anyone to have. You never know who someone is just by looking at them.

I would not want humanity to become extinct, I would want us as a species to reach the next level of adult development. (We are still unruly children in a intelligent species sense.) Unfortunately there are those who consider us a stain and should be removed. Not a healthy thing to believe.

BR549, I know what the word means but your use of it I have seen before. Now tell me who calls themselves “Illuminists”? You will find that same talk from people like Marion “Pat” Robertson who blames them all the time for everything “anti-Christian.” I don’t need you to tell me about this subject.

Report this
moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, September 10, 2010 at 11:37 am Link to this comment

BR:

You still don’t get it.

Guess you are just flat-out incapable of anything but narcissistic navel-picking?

White guys always want to tell us Indians how we should—and especially how we shouldn’t—feel: with the primary requisite being that we should never feel angry!  No, you can run all over us, but if we put up a hand to call you what you are, you admonish us for being angry about it.

If I were self-pitying, I would not be 66 years old—I would have died well before 40 like everybody else does with this illness. 

That means that the last 26 years or so have just been gravy—and I was smart enough not to spend most of them living cheek to jowl with gringos who tell me to eat (their) shit and love it, but to follow my heart’s stirrings.

Instead, despite all the problems here in Latin America (almost entirely caused by euroamericans), I am highly productive on a number of fronts (formed not only a livestock association so folks here don’t have to go dodge bullets in the Arizona desert, but also a campesino theater group to recover historical memory, developed and put in place a number of educational programs in Latin America and the Middle East, have written 5 books in Spanish—and a host of et cetera) and am far happier and HEALTHIER than I ever was listening to you sad sacks
natter on about “American Exceptionalism”.

So why bother me about joining your crusade to Save White America, andby extension, theplanet it has tried its best to detroy—what could you possibly want with a subversive Indian except some knowledge she might have about living lightly on the land you folks ripped off from us?

You are not going to beat me into a submissive posture—I just don’t go there.

If you had any courage—something I value highly—you’d stop badgering an old Indian woman in Internet and get out there to make a revolution—before it’s too late.

The other option, of course, is to become one of the characters in Cormac McCarthy’s stark novel, The Road.

Time to shit or get off the pot, as my grandmother used to say.

I already have done both.

Report this
BR549's avatar

By BR549, September 10, 2010 at 9:57 am Link to this comment

Re:  moonraven, September 10 at 1:19 pm

Boy, am I glad I’m not carrying that sack of anger around. I’ve known people
who have been dealt a bad hand and have still managed to bless what they did
have. I’m sorry you’re having such a tough time with doing the same. I wound
up with a radiation exposure from four years in the service. Everyone kept
pointing their fingers somewhere else when I was looking for answers. My
thyroid is all over the place because of it.

At some point, though, I had to stop wallowing in self pity and look at the
larger picture; the potential the human race still has ......... instead of letting
myself get get absorbed with assholes like BUSH and Obama who were always
managing to get into positions of power, lying to people, and trying to destroy
humanity.

They are lost souls and all you do when you spew your hostility is you become
a magnet for the very energy of injustice you complain about. It’s one thing to
be angry; harness and channel it. Do something constructive with it. It’s no
wonder you’re so sick; it’s the only thing that seems to be giving you a sense of
purpose. We all chose this incarnation, so take some personal responsibility
and give it a rest. You may have given up, but I and many others are still in it
for the long haul.

Report this
PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, September 10, 2010 at 9:57 am Link to this comment

Moonraver,

I for one am glad your tired la raza racist ass is out of the U.S. 

Try to fix it or leave, you made your choice.

Report this
moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, September 10, 2010 at 9:19 am Link to this comment

You gringos just do not get it.

And you will be swept into the dustbin of history still protesting that you are completely blameless and that euroamerican and gringo are just racist epithets invented by “losers” to assault your good intentions towards the rest of the planet.

Nobody has to be on a “high horse” to see what you folks are up to.  After you tried your damnedest to exterminate all the indigenous folks, turned Turtle Island into a toxic waste dump and continue to maintain an active policy of genocide against the few surviving indigenous folks, you have the almighty nerve to give us a blast of shit because we are disinclined to jump on the bandwagon to save your ass.

Personally, I don’t want to join your game of Indians R Us.  In my opinion, and in the opinion of other native folks such as Ward Churchill, your telling us how to be Indians is nothing but cultural genocide.

And your gradeschool level racist potshots at me as if I were a 15th century Azteca sacrificing my neighbor atop the pyramid that’s 2 kilometers from our house, and a 21st century narcotraficante and a cheap corrupt PAN politician and responsible for all the human rights violations in Mexico (are you haggy Hillary in a baby blue microfiber pantsuit and pop beads, or what?) because I chose to leave Gringolandia and move to where I care to work and live goes even beyond the typical gringo compulsion to legislate everyone’s behavior but his own.

I am 66 years old and have lived with a chronic illness since early childhood that was caused by the US government’s nuclear irresponsibility.  Much as I—like Fidel Castro indicated a week or two ago that he would like to see how this very “interesting” crunch time on the planet plays out, I would just as soon see our species leap into extinction.  We were a bad genetic accident all around.

And Darwin was completely full of shit:  It’s all about survival of the LEAST fit and the MOST ecologically destructive.

But, hopefully, not formuch longer.

Report this
BR549's avatar

By BR549, September 9, 2010 at 5:11 pm Link to this comment

NightGaunt,

il·lu·mi·na·ti (-lm-nät) pl.n. 1. People “CLAIMING” to be unusually enlightened with regard to a subject. (emphasis added)

I never said they WERE “illuminated” or conscious; they just claim to be. They somehow see themselves as the “anointed” ones, when it might more accurately be described as having ceremonial wine thrown on them while being sodomized in a drunken stupor at the Bohemian Grove.

Had you actually read my various posts, you would have known my stance.

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, September 9, 2010 at 1:30 pm Link to this comment

BR549 there are no “Illuminists” for if they were they would not be doing this. Sounds like you have been poisoned, in mind, by the evangelical Know-nothings who equate the “Enlightenment” with “Godless Communism” of the Stalinist variety. Couldn’t be further from the truth. The ultra-rich are everywhere and some of them, maybe most of them want it all and are Christian of the <i>Dominionist type. But they were not part of the original Illuminati of Bavaria (1776-1789) or the Alumbros of Spain. Some of their ideas were mirrored in the formation of this country. The good parts, not the slavery and extermination, that was the Christian influences that contaminated the Great Experiment from the beginning.

Report this
BR549's avatar

By BR549, September 9, 2010 at 1:14 pm Link to this comment

Moonraven,
You assume a lot. ......... Except for my rent, I use so little water and electricity that my internet connection is my largest monthly expense, and that’s a stripped down variety. I have an eight year old stripped down pick-up that gets 33 mpg and I use it as little as possible. I won’t own or use AC and I wash my clothes by hand. It’s how I choose to live. I grow as much food as I can in the back yard and I use my time to try to educate the meatheads out there about what is happening around them. So please lose the whip and the dominatrix outfit.

If I didn’t have family up here that I cared about, I’d be headed for South America, but I chose to stick it out up here with my now grown children. It’s easy to sit in the back row and throw tomatoes at everyone you think is “Eurocentric”, but that doesn’t mean that we’re all of the same mind as General Custer. As I recall, the various tribes in Mexico did quite well all by themselves in forcing other tribes into slavery, that was if they weren’t beating the snot out of each other or chopping their heads off.

There are people up here that are part of the problem and also those who are part of the solution. It’s the same in Mexico and Venezuela and every other place on the planet. The issues of consciousness and courage know no geopolitical boundaries. The only thing that is different is that the respective citizens haven’t necessarily had to react because their economies haven’t yet reached critical mass. Push enough buttons and Greece will soon be dealing with a coup. If the illuminists decide to throttle Venezuela’s economy and the population starts having to do without, they, like the US, will be ripe for a revolution. The only difference is how the illuminists decide they want top position the chess pieces.

Castro did an exemplary job of fighting against the Dulles Brothers’ family paranoia and while he did have his enemies and wasn’t always the nicest guy, look what he did with what little he had left. Hopefully, Chavez will be able to do the same for Venezuela, should the need arise.

Personally, I don’t see this dysfunctional system as being able to sustain itself. Sooner or later, the cancer runs out material to parasitize and then it kills the host it has been feeding off for so long. These illuminist clowns are so enamored with their own egos that they can only see success and domination. This is what we should be focusing on; not knocking Eurocentric chips off our shoulders.

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, September 9, 2010 at 12:16 pm Link to this comment

Ah, Mexico, two stolen elections, drug war has become really hot and still tries to get its excess people to move anywhere but there, being run by about 10 rich families with close ties to our own oligarchs*. Not exactly a safe place, Moonraven. We haven’t degenerated to that yet but its coming. Once the oligarchs remove the Republic not much will be there to stop them. Full military force in the streets the way the Israelis do it. Thanks for all the fish!  Sorry you didn’t stay to lift a finger—-pointing fingers lead back to you by your own admonition.

BR549 is right the local issue is global. Not just the pollution and wars and destruction of the environment, but also food and water shortages on the way if not here already. Every person for themselves is the rationality of the desperate as the ship sinks. I congratulate you Moonraven on what you’ve done. Are you saying you couldn’t have done that in the USA? Are the laws less debilitating in Mexico? Or just no enforcement?

It would help Moonraven if you would step off your high horse for a moment. I can’t say my carbon footprint is as small as yours, but “Eurocentric” is a specious charge unless I guess I am a “gringo” too so now I am one of the enemy I guess or at least certain characteristics you assign to such a designation will automatically fit all of us. I have never been to Europe. I have watched the BBC.

I see why you left. If I could go to Canada I would but they only want people who have a job there.

I’m am interested in what you have to say, your observations,Moonraven. However truth be told there is no escape from this unless we end its activities. For they want to plunder the earth an anyone who gets in their way they will enslave or wipe out or convert to their imperial version of Christianity where might makes their right.

The hard part will be stopping them. They have the funding, organizations, training, the people (including deluded volunteers) and an evangelical zeal backed by military might to get what they want done. We are one Great Depression away from them coming out of the closet to finish the job.

* They normally stay apart and act like tigers but they have decided the only way to rule the world and do all of what they want is to control nation-states and give corporations the powers of a nation-state in order to complete the transformation of corporations into super-states.

Report this
moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, September 9, 2010 at 11:43 am Link to this comment

BR:

You have NO idea how I live, and you have a lot of euronerve making assumptions.

For example, my ecological footprint is about .3 of the average for Mexico (Mexico’s average is 1.9 versus 9.0 for the US average). 

This computer is in an internet cafe.  I use a small collective combi as transportation—sold my VW Beetle 11 years ago—and walk when I can.  I don’t heat the house I share with 6 other people.  I use a small table fan occasionally, not AC.  The back patio is a garden.  More than 10 years ago I helped local folks form a livestock association—some pangs about that but the land up in the cerro was to poor to crop except for forage for the livestock.  By now maybe you should be getting a tiny idea of how I live.

So far as I am concerned, gangsters are in power in both the US and Mexico.  If the situation gets significantly worse here, I will move south to Venezuela, where I spend time when I can anyway. 

Changing cultures is fine with me, as I was never part of the gringo culture anyway.  I taught myself Spanish and handle it well enough to give courses in it at universities and conferences in it as well. 

I am not a fat, lazy euroamerican who believes that all good things should be handed to me, and that they come from a t.v. set or from Saks Fifth Avenue. 

I am willing to do what it takes to feel in relatively harmony with non-whites and with other species on the planet.  I am seldom in harmony with whites because they are committed to living their lives at the expense of others.

I do not live my life at the expense of others, so far as I can tell.

This could go on, but if you aren’t getting my drift by now, well, I suspect you are never going to get it.

Report this
BR549's avatar

By BR549, September 9, 2010 at 11:25 am Link to this comment

Moonraven,
It wasn’t just for reasons of saving the US that I brought that up. The entire planet is being overridden by these thugs. It looks more like a macroscopic version of 1920s Chicago, with gangs popping up everywhere because they could.

The population had allowed it to happen because they’d lost their common dream. Then it lost its moral compass and its integrity. Whether the US stays in tact or not is one thing, but you should hope it does, because if that goes you can kiss your way of living goodbye, even down there well over the border.

If the US is allowed to fall, it’ll be a free-for-all for drug lords,  gangsters, and banksters, not just here in America, but everywhere. Don’t think because you high-tailed it out of here, that you’re somehow immune to what happens up here. Far from it.

Report this
moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, September 9, 2010 at 10:37 am Link to this comment

BR549:  THanks, but as you folks are so obviously disinclined to do anything about the ongoing genocide in the US, I am not inclined to throw my lot in to help a rogue state continue at the expense of my people.

It needs to simply be swept into the dustbin of history that Trotsky so aply described.  And good riddance.

For that reason I left the US almost 20 years ago for south of the border, and have thrown my lot in here—in a small indigenous/mestizo town.

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, September 9, 2010 at 10:36 am Link to this comment

ofersince72 I like and agree with your idea of compromise concerning Liberals, Progressives and Libertarians joining forces. I wold also add any Conservatives too who agree we need to stop the oligarchs now. It could work and we need to get together on what we do agree with for our enemies surely have.

The oligarchs, who are also many of the financiers own the USA but don’t yet have absolute power over us just yet. But they have been working toward that goal since their direct approach failed in 1934. Since 1980 things have been going down hill. [Though I note that Jimmy Carter in his last year started the free Capitalism from any restraint first, then Reagan et al continued it unbroken to today. I wait to see whether Obama backs up his words.]

We need doctors and nurses and many of the decommissioned soldiers can be retrained and funded by the tax hikes on the wealthy and the diversion of funds from the corporate military industrial complex that sucks up 58% from our GDP.

The problem with such conservative Libertarians is that they are like the people in charge now. Restrict our personal rights but open the doors to corporate freedoms. That needs to be reversed.

A rogue nation founded on the twin cornerstones of genocide and slavery is doomed from the get go, pal.moonraven,

Nothing lasts forever but this country as it mutates could last 20 years or 120 years before it falls. If we can arrest its malevolent metamorphosis now would be a good thing. I just don’t see how it is possible. The oligarchs are better funded, have many volunteers and have a definite goal in mind—remove the Republic and turn us into a real empire.

Report this
BR549's avatar

By BR549, September 9, 2010 at 10:17 am Link to this comment

Moonraven and JD,

Let’s try to remember that disagreement is exactly what “they”, the ‘powers that be’, expect out of a population that has systematically had its culture unravelling. They want us left with sense of disorganization so that we are left bickering amongst ourselves. They count on it in order to win. We have so many larger issues on our plates at the moment (and the planet’s), what we need to do is to find ways to cooperate, tolerate, and to be above all courteous with each other.

I’m not picking on any one person, certainly not Moonraven, because I happen to agree with her 100%, but we have to look at the larger picture ......... all of us, if we are going to do anything meaningful. It’s really tempting to try to cram our personal dogma down someone else’s throat, particularly behind the anonymity of a keyboard, but the reasons why so many differing factions of thought are forming is because the illuminati are openly encouraging disunity.

There have been many many great contributions to this thread and others on TD, along with a myriad of other websites, but the only way we are going to do ANYTHING to effect any meaningful solution is if we do it together. Something to think about.

Report this

By truedigger3, September 9, 2010 at 10:03 am Link to this comment

Re: ofersince72, September 9 at 4:29 am

“As a matter of fact, it was Carter who started the breakup of the Air Traffic Contollers Union”
____________________________________________________

ofersince72,

Carter deregulated the Airlines and Trucking industries and repealed the usury laws. He didn’t do any thing to the Air Traffic Controllers Union.
It was Reagan, who busted the Air Traffic Controllers Union by firing them all, when they went on strike.
So, the current down hill trend for the working class got started by Carter and not by Reagan and continued under each president, Democrat or Republican, ever since.

Report this
moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, September 9, 2010 at 9:10 am Link to this comment

JD Magical Mystery Boor:

Your arrogant euroamerican attitude says it all.

Calling me a less than rational being because I refuse to pledge allegiance with my vote to the white plutocracy that took everything from my people and then forced us to become citizens so that they could not be called to account for violating every treaty they made with our sovereign nations—you sure have some nerve.

A rogue nation founded on the twin cornerstones of genocide and slavery is doomed from the get go, pal.

YOU are the less than rational being in this scenario—lording it over others who refuse to bail out a rogue state that has been the scourage of the planet and of all its species.

Report this

By elisalouisa, September 9, 2010 at 6:37 am Link to this comment

Re: U.S. Soliders Killed Afghan Civilian for Sport and Collected Fingers as Trophies.
By ofersince72, September 9 at 3:30 am
“Of course, these are the ones that got caught.There are these kind of loonies in every platoon.That is what occupation wars consist of. Total humiliation of the population, it is part of the shock and awe. Just like the Lt. Calley incident was an
isolated instance of mass murder in Vietnam.”

It’s not quite the same. We were fighting the Vietnamese. Our soldiers, if this story is correct, are just killing for the sport. Could the demonization of Muslims be but just one reason?
Try this link.

http://www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=1697

Report this
BR549's avatar

By BR549, September 9, 2010 at 5:32 am Link to this comment

ofer,

Man, you gotta lay off the caffeine. that last rant went from 12:22 AM to 7:58 AM.

I had suggested to the different camps before the last election that none of them were going to do the populace any good if they didn’t get elected, and that they should consider bringing all the candidates together under one platform.

Apparently, no one was listening. Were their individual egos still so hyper-focused that they had no room to accommodate any other views than their own? I dunno. As I’ve said many times, Paul, Kucinich, Gravel, Nader, Barr, all opposed NAFTA and they all had their walking papers handed to them. The media just did not want any discussion of what Perot had warned us about years before.

Now, save for Mike Gravel because of his age perhaps, the single most patriotic thing the rest of this group could do is to put aside whatever petty differences they might have and help turn this country around. At least with a platform that had some meat to it, the average voter might be able to believe that something could be done and then do the same thing with the House and Senate seats and kick all those worthless pompous, vanity driven, stuffed shirts the hell out of the cushy chairs they’ve been warming at our expense.

But the key issue here is NAFTA. That was the one issue that every other candidate had made known their position; all except Obama, and now we know why. That cyanotic-lipped sack of shit refused to discuss NAFTA and then sandbagged the entire American populace. Anything to get elected.

We all knew that lawyers rank somewhere below mosquitos on the evolutionary ladder, but where do we put the likes of Obama, Clinton and Bush; somewhere below maggot snot?

Report this

By elisalouisa, September 9, 2010 at 5:15 am Link to this comment

By ofersince72, September 9 at 3:23 am Link to this comment
Here is a great headline in today’s
Guardian News and Media Limited.

U.S. Soldiers Killed Afghan Civilians for Sport and

Collected Fingers as Trophies.

“Soldiers face charges over secret “kill team” which
allegedly murdered at random and collected fingers as
trophies of war”
___________
Check it out.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/09/us-soldiers-afghan-civilians-
fingers

Report this
BR549's avatar

By BR549, September 9, 2010 at 5:02 am Link to this comment

ofersince72, September 9 at 4:29 am

“As a matter of fact, it was Carter who started the breakup of the Air Traffic Contollers Union.  It was Reagon who promised the union his backing, that is what got Reagon much union backing in his first election..He betrayed, first order of duty, he finished what Carter started.”

It’s the same strategy that’s been used from Bush41 to Clinton with NAFTA, Clinton to Bush the Idiot with Glass-Steagall and again with wiretapping, and then Bush the Idiot to Obama with the war and Wall Street.

These guys are in a relay race; they just forgot they still belonged to the human race.

Report this

By ofersince72, September 9, 2010 at 3:58 am Link to this comment

Another thing Hedges ain’t gonna tell you….

That all the UNITED STATES is right now is the

H I R E D…..G U N S L I N G E R ...................

for the I N T E R N A T I O N A L…..I N V E S T O R S

that own our debt, and that there is little Obama or
Palin can do about this.! ! ! ! And that he needs our help
to get out of this pickle and the vote ain’t going to
do it….same with our Congress…they need our help to
get out of this pickle and the vote ain’t gonna do it…..

Report this

By ofersince72, September 9, 2010 at 3:24 am Link to this comment

Hedges ain’t gonna tell you CRAP, except

THEY KILL ALEX…......no shit
BOYCOTT FEDEX….......wow and another wow
CALLING ALL COMMUNISTS another wow and ten more wows
ECT. ECT. ECT….......WOW….WOW…..WOW…WOWO.WHOI.WOW

Report this

By ofersince72, September 9, 2010 at 3:18 am Link to this comment

Another issue that could well be compromised with

the conservative libertarians, farm subsidies.  I am

all for weaning farming from this destructive policy.

No, it couldn’t be done overnight,  but certainly

a short term weaning from this.  It has destroyed our

economy, our soils, our food, our small farms, and the

economies of many of our neighbors, mostly Mexico’s.

Report this

By ofersince72, September 9, 2010 at 2:56 am Link to this comment

But what these journalists will fill you up with is

a bunch of garbage.  Take Robert’s new book for an

example.  What are you going to learn out of that book?
That Scheer slept for twenty years or more while our
funds were being stolen?  Is he going to tell you that
counting the money they hide in the State Dept. funding,
we spend over a trillion dollars a year on mostly garbage?
No, he is NOT.  Never will they blame the war budget of
the last forty years for any of our financial problems! !
They are going to keep you focused on Wall Street, which
of course, needs much attention, but is not even half the
problem.
They are also going to keep you believing that every
white human being that is for Sara Palin wants to
hang every black person in America. Divert attention.
The Democrats and their collusional journalist buddies
have done more for racial unrest than anything in the
last forty years has done.

Report this

By ofersince72, September 9, 2010 at 2:10 am Link to this comment

You are not going to get what is going on from the

mainstream journalists including Scheer ,our editor, nor

from any of the journalists he parades on Truth Dig.
Robinson ain’t gonna tell ya,
nor is Dionne,
nor is Hedges,
or any of the rest….and you will not find out on most
of the popular progressive or consevative websites.

Report this

By ofersince72, September 9, 2010 at 2:06 am Link to this comment

There are many on Truth Dig that understands well

what is going on…unfortunatly there are just as many

that have know clue.  And it is you all that needs to

wake up really, really quick.

Report this

By ofersince72, September 9, 2010 at 2:01 am Link to this comment

Unless a legislator introduces a bill to protect

social security, it is going to gone in short order
anyway.  No one has the balls to introduce such legislation. Anyway , it isn’t up to the lawakers anymore.
The ones that own our debt are dictating policy right now.
Our lawmakers are either to indebted to them, blackmailed,
coerced or have ties to the owners of the debt.
It will take a radical, radical, position by the public
to change this.
  The owners of our debt are telling our lawmakers that
the intergovernmental debt to social security must be
swept clean so they can get a bigger share of the money
that is owed them.  This is going to be done, that is
exactly what the Deficit Reduction Committee, co-chaired
by Alan Simpson is doing right as I speak. It is a done
deal… That debt is going to be wiped clean, inter-
governmental debt, owed by our government to social
security.  Once this is done, the final theft of social
security will be complete, it won’t be many years after
this is accomplished that social security will be a thing
of the past, that is just why they talk the doublespeak
of “privatizing” social security.  They have put it in
such a position that it has to be, just to keep the
doublespeak up that we have social security. Remember,
I am the only one on Truth Dig that uses the word
A U S T E R I T .....that is exactly what is happening.

Report this

By ofersince72, September 9, 2010 at 1:47 am Link to this comment

I have a idea that I like that would be a compromise

with the conservative libertarians.  It involves the

total deregulation of the Stock Market.  In the future

(starting about now) consumerism will be a thing of the

past , and that is a good thing. We have lived excessivly

(including the big boys) way to long.  Our ecology can’t

handle this any longer.  So, if it were made against the

law to transfer home loans into trading on the stock market,  and pension funds kept out of the stock market,
that is to say, without S.S. there will have to be pensions from small business owners to the mega companies,
so they will have to be kept from speculation. If this
were done, I wouldn’t give a damn if there were no
regulations on Wall Street.  Enter and invest at your own
risk.  As for 401ks , these should not be considered your
retirement fund by your employer.  Just extra incentive,
and you as the investor, take the risk knowing up front
most of the ones investing for you are nefarious charachters. As long as pensions, health care and home
loans are kept out,  who cares?  This satisfies the
libertarians and protects workers.  Anyone earning the
excess and wants to put it in the stock market, buyer
beware.  So if libertarians will compromise on everyone
having some sort of insured and garantteed pension program,  compromise with them back and give them wall
street.,, who wants any part of that anyway?

Report this

By ofersince72, September 9, 2010 at 12:41 am Link to this comment

But I am starting to talk solutions and very few
if any on here, including the contributing journalists
want to offer any solutions to the
military employment economic complex problem we have.

It will take massive co-operation and sacrifice by the
American Public.
I could sum up just about every post on Truth Dig with
three sentences.
Every one has there own flair of saying the same thing
over and over…so of it written beatifully., but
never how to address the problems. ,,just repeats of what
the problem is…what we already know.

Report this

By ofersince72, September 9, 2010 at 12:35 am Link to this comment

There are only two issues that I believe Paul

wouldn’t compromise on….that is peace and the federal

reserve…two issues that are also liberal issues…

I am sure he understands the massive employment that
demiliterizing would cause, I just haven’t been able to
get satisfactory answers from the Paul camp.

I would love to see a Paul/Kucinach ticket, they have
a lot of respect for each other.  It certainly would go
a long, long, long way in uniting our country.
I believe both men are capable of compromise.

Report this

By ofersince72, September 9, 2010 at 12:29 am Link to this comment

JDmysicDJ,

I wouldn’t go so far as to say Ron Paul is my man and
I have never said he was, however , there is much to be
admired about him. Last month he gave one of the best
speeches on the House floor that I have ever heard and
it drew applause from many liberals.
  His ideas on deregulation are scary, but if he were
running on a peace and withdrawal platform, and made it
to the general election against Obama or another war hawk
Democrat, I very well might vote for Paul.

The Democrats can’t answer the same questions that Paul’s
backers can’t answer.  And that is, how do you transform
our economic system from a military employment economic
system?  What do you do with all the unemployed in the
meantime?  I have ideas, do You??  The other problems that
I have with Paul, the Democrats can’t answer either.
Such as, when and if you can transform the employment
system, how do you garantee a livable wage and health care?  The Democrats can’t answer this anymore than
Paul can.  Remember, the Democrats are just as responsible
for the break up of unions as the Republicans. As a matter
of fact, it was Carter who started the breakup of the
Air Traffic Contollers Union.  It was Reagon who promised
the union his backing, that is what got Reagon much union
backing in his first election..He betrayed, first order
of duty, he finished what Carter started. Now, I understand full well that Carter is the best ex-president
we have ever had,  but he has many policies that he should
and probably does feel shameful about.
But that is past history…and we should be little
concerned right now what happened yesterday..how do we
go forward?  Do you have any idea what sacrifices it will
take to turn our economy from a military employment
economic system into a sustainable healthy full employment
economy?
If you have any ideas , please post them.
We , even if we had a friendly Congress and President,
cannot change the direction of our country just with a
voting lever.  It will take hands on by everyone in this
country. However , we don’t and won’t have a friendly
Congress and President, probably not in our lifetime JD>

Report this

By ofersince72, September 9, 2010 at 12:29 am Link to this comment

JDmysicDJ,

I wouldn’t go so far as to say Ron Paul is my man and
I have never said he was, however , there is much to be
admired about him. Last month he gave one of the best
speeches on the House floor that I have ever heard and
it drew applause from many liberals.
  His ideas on deregulation are scary, but if he were
running on a peace and withdrawal platform, and made it
to the general election against Obama or another war hawk
Democrat, I very well might vote for Paul.

The Democrats can’t answer the same questions that Paul’s
backers can’t answer.  And that is, how do you transform
our economic system from a military employment economic
system?  What do you do with all the unemployed in the
meantime?  I have ideas, do You??  The other problems that
I have with Paul, the Democrats can’t answer either.
Such as, when and if you can transform the employment
system, how do you garantee a livable wage and health care?  The Democrats can’t answer this anymore than
Paul can.  Remember, the Democrats are just as responsible
for the break up of unions as the Republicans. As a matter
of fact, it was Carter who started the breakup of the
Air Traffic Contollers Union.  It was Reagon who promised
the union his backing, that is what got Reagon much union
backing in his first election..He betrayed, first order
of duty, he finished what Carter started. Now, I understand full well that Carter is the best ex-president
we have ever had,  but he has many policies that he should
and probably does feel shameful about.
But that is past history…and we should be little
concerned right now what happened yesterday..how do we
go forward?  Do you have any idea what sacrifices it will
take to turn our economy from a military employment
economic system into a sustainable healthy full employment
economy?
If you have any ideas , please post them.
We , even if we had a friendly Congress and President,
cannot change the direction of our country just with a
voting lever.  It will take hands on by everyone in this
country. However , we don’t and won’t have a friendly
Congress and President, probably not in our lifetime JD>

Report this

By ofersince72, September 8, 2010 at 11:31 pm Link to this comment

And oh, my, my,  T H E Y…..K I L L…..A L E X…....

Report this

By ofersince72, September 8, 2010 at 11:30 pm Link to this comment

Of course, these are the ones that got caught.

There are these kind of loonies in every platoon.

That is what occupation wars consist of.  Total

humiliation of the population, it is part of the

shock and awe.  Just like the Lt. Calley incident was

an isolated instance of mass murder in Vietnam.

Report this

By ofersince72, September 8, 2010 at 11:23 pm Link to this comment

Here is a great headline in today’s
Guardian News and Media Limited.

U.S. Soldiers Killed Afghan Civilians for Sport and

Collected Fingers as Trophies.

“Soldiers face charges over secret “kill team” which
allegedly murdered at random and collected fingers as
trophies of war”

I bet Rachael and Keith don’t report this news.

Of course , I am sure the same was done in Iraq, and
know for certain that this was done in Vietnam, only
they were still into scalps back then.

Report this

By ofersince72, September 8, 2010 at 9:52 pm Link to this comment

JD , you are like the others,  the more you talk,

the more you make a fool of yourself and make my point.

thankyou much ! ! ! ! 

Work on ur history a bunch, it might help ur accuracy.

Report this

By ofersince72, September 8, 2010 at 9:47 pm Link to this comment

Oh please wordsmith, give me the history of the

Democrats and Republicans.  Me believes you just woke

up last night, with no concept of American history

whatsoever.

Report this

By ofersince72, September 8, 2010 at 9:42 pm Link to this comment

Ha, respond with a spelling error and other ad homs,

that is your only response since your intellect is so

tunnel visioned and bankrupted.  Sorry that I don’t view

my postings before sending,  I will probably continue to

do it that way.

Lack of history concepts???  That would be you if you

believe your Democrat vote is going to stop a war.

Report this
JDmysticDJ's avatar

By JDmysticDJ, September 8, 2010 at 9:19 pm Link to this comment

By moonraven, September 8 at 7:22 pm

“Voting is not the answer.”

Really? What is the answer? Not voting? Apparently that is your belief. What is it that you accomplish by not voting? The question is rhetorical; what you accomplish by not voting is the relinquishing of power to the very worst agents of the Plutocracy, and those who feel no remorse about “Genocidal apartheid;” that’s baffling, what is to be accomplished by not voting? A rational being will seek to avoid catastrophe, not submit to it. When faced with imminent catastrophe, a rational being will take the best avenue of escape, no matter how ineffectual it may seem. Cutting one’s losses is preferable to losing everything, and more. Is it possible to dig yourself out of a “Hole”?  Those who see no dichotomy between Right and Left are willfully blind, or disingenuous. Why a person would be disingenuous about this reality is, again, baffling. Someone, please tell me what is to be accomplished by not voting. Will it be a great moral victory to relinquish power to the most immoral? The blind hatred exhibited here is understandable, but is counter productive to the point of self destruction. Are you really concerned about ending the madness and the very real horror, or are you only concerned with advancing your philosophical and political ideological nihilism? Voting for the lesser of two evils makes perfect sense; unless you have some reason for wanting to see the greater of evils prevail. Someone please explain to me why relinquishing power to the most fascistic is the best course of action.

By BR549, September 8 at 9:34 pm

It’s not a rabid dog that can be easily dispatched; it’s an immortal being like a vampire or werewolf, it must be vanquished by stealth. A stake through the heart or the silver bullet of the vote will be the only possible way to defeat it.

Night-Gaunt

The effects of the spill will come out piecemeal, and the responsibility will be avoided, unless we elect representatives that will hold them accountable. Which political party has demonstrated that it is the least likely to hold those responsible accountable?

Some were forecasting a collapse of the sea floor, and a cataclysmic methane explosion, and they seem to be disappointed that it didn’t happen.

There are two methods of causing the warmongers to cease and desist, the first method will not occur until it’s too late, and the second method will require electing those most likely to end the nightmare. There are those who will not be dissuaded, and those who will be dissuaded, by events.

ofersince72, September 8 at 6:08

Pompus? I think you mean pompous. Sorry, it’s pompous of me to correct your spelling. However, pointing out that you lack political acuity, and seem to lack any concept of history or dichotomy as it relates to Democrats and Republicans is a simple point of fact, and can not rationally be defined as pomposity. The Democrats suck, but they don’t suck as much as Republicans do. The sad truth is, short of divine intervention, the Democrats are our best hope of ending these wars and obstructing corporate fascism. Your boy Paul would lead us towards unregulated predatory capitalism; apparently you fail to see that.

Work on that acuity thing.

Report this

By ofersince72, September 8, 2010 at 8:27 pm Link to this comment

Sorry Hedges,  I just can’t feel the grief for Alex
like I do for the babies being born with birth defects
from people like Alex loading up the Iraqi landscape with
uranium depleted warheads. Nor does my grief extend to
Alex’s father, who should have brought his son up on the
Golden Rule.

Report this

By ofersince72, September 8, 2010 at 8:22 pm Link to this comment

The landscape of Iraq is tragic and there isn’t one
American that shouldn’t be hanging their head in shame
excecpt Kucinach and Paul. The rest of us, for not
lending these two brave lawmakers the help they needed , ought to bury ourselves in our shame.

  Our military has even prevented the Iraqi workers from
forming unions,  with force and death when necessary,
then , with the collusion of our fucking no good press,
call the acts sectarian violence.
Iraq is rubble now,  an ancient civilization that caused
us no harm.  Lost are ancient artifacts, much antiguity
stolen from their museums, old mosques blown apart, every
fabric of their society in shock and awe. There are
children that will always have PTSD.
Radioactive warheads all over the country causing birth
defects and cancer.

It is shameful, and Americans should not let Obama or
the Rethugs make us accept permanent occupation.  We
should pack up and leave immediately.  Obama is a punk
Bush is punk, and our whole legislature is filled with
nothing but cowards and punks who won’t let their
children bare the blood.
How anyone could even think to vote for any of these punks
, lesser of evil or naught is beyond me.  there is no
lesser of evil when it comes to genicidel, murdering,
cowards and punks.
Iraq is a complete ruin, had to action off their only
resource with a gun at their head to the blood thirsty
Western Investors.
THEY KILL ALEX ?????????????????????????????????????????

Report this
BR549's avatar

By BR549, September 8, 2010 at 5:34 pm Link to this comment

The “illumunists”, as they call themselves, and our less than august legislature has fallen victim to a near total disconnection from the society of man that allowed them to become who they think they are. It’s no different than the disconnect we see when sociopaths become too busy taking care of their own needs at the expense of others. These are lost souls to be pitied, for they are attempting to condemn their own ‘family’. They’d knowingly drown their own mother if they thought it would keep them afloat long enough to get one more breath of air.

Imagine the flip side, where these illuminists (if they really were as cerebrally illuminated as they’d like us to believe) were to use their positions to help elevate the consciousness of all men and women across the globe. People wouldn’t care who was in charge as long as the system worked. Instead, this current band of misfits are too busy hoarding everything for themselves and that is the very thing that will bring them down; their own greed.

There is a tremendous responsiblility that goes along with the assumption of authority, if not so much materially, then spiritually; it’s just that these clowns haven’t figured that out yet. Figuratively speaking, the illuminists were those dysfunctional kids in the schoolyard who were always stomping on ants or burning toads. That has been their relationship with their mother Earth; to kill it rather than nurture it.

Somehow or another you just knew these “kids” needed more love in their families, but everyone in the neighborhood always knew that the only solution was with a loaded 45. After a dog becomes rabid, sooner or later you just have to put it down, and where are we now?

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, September 8, 2010 at 4:48 pm Link to this comment

Don’t give to parties but to individuals. The two-headed party of the Dominionists want your money but they decide who is running. Now if they don’t like the present person they can shift money to their opponent.

Report this
moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, September 8, 2010 at 3:22 pm Link to this comment

Voting is not the answer. 

In fact, it’s a serious problem:  Every time you vote you pledge allegiance to the plutocrat system that maintains the genocidal condition of APARTHEID in the US.

Report this

By jean Gerard, September 8, 2010 at 3:09 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Mother:  Definitely, you are NOT a failure.  You brought up a kid who, like
thousands of others, refuses good advice because he thinks he knows better.
There is absolutely nothing you can do beyond trying. And even if you had been
able to control his decision, maybe something just as disappointing would have
happened.  Please do not blame yourself.  All we can do is our best, and nearly all
of us face enormous disappointments, one way or the other.
  If you feel so inclined, work with some anti-war organization or anti-recruiting
organization and help others get knowledge of how to resist and how to stop
wars.  Millions of people want to stop wars but have no idea how to do it. Instead
they think there’s nothing they can do.  They are wrong.  Look up anti-war
organizations on the net and see what they need.  Love.

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, September 8, 2010 at 2:20 pm Link to this comment

Well we are in what is called a quandry. In order to affect change we must get elected. But the system is set up to preclude that.

How would you end that conundrum ofersince72? We have been put in this position on purpose.

Report this

By ofersince72, September 8, 2010 at 2:08 pm Link to this comment

And how do we go about this arduous climb?

With the voting lever?  Who are those that you refer

to as crouching in the hole?  The ones not voting

Democrat?  How pompus if thats your take.  How do we

know that it is not you crouching in the hole?  What are

your solutions getting out of the military employment

economic complex?

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, September 8, 2010 at 1:48 pm Link to this comment

JDmysticDJ, the oil gusher in the Gulf of Mexico is worse than it has been publicized. Between the oil and the poisonous disburscent used we will find out piecemeal. So I wouldn’t recommend eating any seafood from the Gulf till we do.

Of course anyone who would want it to be worse is mentally ill or making a profit off of it. No matter what political point of view they are from.

Killing is the main business of war. Taking what is others is the payment for it. Something that even if the USA was doing the corporations rake it in and make us pay twice for it. Blood for wealth and power. That is how an empire feeds itself.

Report this
JDmysticDJ's avatar

By JDmysticDJ, September 8, 2010 at 1:19 pm Link to this comment

Moral decadence is the disease, all of our other problems and horrors are only symptoms of that disease. A society governed by, but not administered by, moral precepts would see all these injustices and horrors disappear.

There are certain radicals, who secretly, in their heart of hearts, are disappointed that the oil leak in the Gulf has not been more destructive, and they inwardly rejoice when there are continued acts of violence in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and the Middle East, because these events validate their beliefs and dialectic, just as there are people on the Right who inwardly rejoice at each new act of violence or intransigence by Muslim extremists. In “The Winter of our Discontent,” each new act of intolerance, act of violence, or atrocity, is seen as a political opportunity, by one side or the other.

There will be no instant salvation, when we find ourselves “Way Down in the Hole.” There is no easy way out of that “Hole,” we’ll need to begin the arduous climb out of that “Hole,” step by step, hand hold by hand hold, or wait for the skies to open in a deluge that will drown us in that “Hole.”

Politically speaking, we’ll need to make the most viable - moral - choices available. Doing anything else will be self destructive; a self destructiveness born of frustration and anger. Each electoral outcome in the direction of peace and justice, rather than back towards the madness which has put us in the “Hole,” will be a foothold out of the “Hole,” and a foothold towards the daylight.

Apparently, some here will abstain from helping to make the arduous climb, and will obstinately crouch in the “Hole” awaiting the deluge, the deluge that will give them a sense of validation, while we flounder and drown, “Way Down in the Hole.”

Report this

By Tobysgirl, September 8, 2010 at 5:49 am Link to this comment

gerard, I would like to totally agree with you about the economic factor, but it is unfortunately more than that. First, I came of age during one of our nation’s constant recessions and had no desire to enlist despite living in poverty. At that age I didn’t know boys who wanted to enlist but were, instead, looking for ways to avoid the draft. Pink underpants at induction worked.

However, I have since known men who did enlist (during the Vietnam War!), and of course they came from highly dysfunctional families. They were not only naive, but they did not have the psychological ability to withstand trauma. Since then I have observed that many boys who join the military come from families in which the father is either absent (looking for daddy?) or abusive. The military is authoritarian, but the rules are pretty clear, and that’s easier to deal with than someone who beats you one minute and cries over you the next.

Why would someone think they have no options other than enlisting? Perhaps because they know nothing about the world and what might be possible. Perhaps they like the idea of being able to kick ass and getting paid for it. (One of the first things one vet I know saw after he enlisted was another soldier being raped by soldiers.) You write eloquently of imagining a different world. Well, it starts right here and right now, and unfortunately most children have the imagination beaten or schooled right out of them. Starting at home.

Report this

By Sam Feldman, September 8, 2010 at 1:35 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Carlos Arredondo is a humble man expressing his grief by by showing others what it looks like. Too bad we haven’t learned from past generations that war also damages us too.

Report this

By Jason Pacifico, September 7, 2010 at 11:10 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I have to say on “they kill Alex” and on Alex telling his dad “forgive me.” First, the war in Iraq, and Afghanistan, is not about an “enemy” or a barbaric people (Romans), but the wars are on Imperialism and specifically about “class” (to decimate).  There have been 1.3 million citizens killed in Iraq since 2002.

The US Government has become a monster government, a monster human rights violator, the pre Nazi Weimer Republic to Nazi Germany government incarnate.  There were 1.3 million Iraqi citizens killed in Iraq since 9/11. On 9/11 and WBAI Radio documentaries like “Science and Politics of 9/11” or documentaries by Guns and Butter Radio “Thermite 9/11 Controlled Demolition,” “The Bush Crime Syndicate,” “Bush Movers Toward Marshall Law,” “9/11 Canada and the New World Order,” it is apparent that the US Government orchestrated the 2 high jacked planes that barreled into the 1,2, WTC and the complete “freefall” destruction of 1,2, 7 WTC.

Moreover, on the raisons d’être’ for 9/11, it begs the question “what happened to the 90,000 jobs lost on the destruction of 1, 2, 7 WTC?”  Was (the loss of middle “class” jobs in NYC) the primary motive “class” in America—as the Pashtuns on “class” in Afghanistan and Pakistan—the reasons for 9/11 in addition for the reason on war to “go to war”? Metaphorically and analogously, the Jewish people and the Gypsies were a “class” in Nazi Germany.

I think on our Culture, the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes, Anita Baker, Karen Carpenter, Shannon Twain (songs subtext: Jesus, Essae), Celine Dionne (songs subtext: Jesus), the Woodstock Concert w/ Jimmy Hendrix, the protest over Vietnam, Kent State and the 5 students murdered, the murders and assassinations by the FBI of Martin Luther King, jr. in 1968, Malcolm X in 1965, JFK in 1963, Robert Kennedy as he ran for president in 1968, Watergate, the ending of the Vietnam War and a new realization. The culture in the US, moreover and especially in Flint and Detroit Michigan, and the Destruction of 3000 buildings in 2010 (7,000 more in the next 5 years) for corporate farms in those cities—to keep people homeless in shelters?!!!??; the country or “culture” has become (could be a song) the “FBI/NSA Assassination/Extermination Culture America ” of the middle and working class.

I think Eric believed in all these songs and Jesus (implied) and MLK, etc. when he said “dad, forgive me.” for what I do in Iraq.

Report this

By Mother, September 7, 2010 at 9:35 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

My son left home for college and a girl but never returned.

5 years later he called and said he was joining the military as an officer.  I pleaded, sobbed, cried, argued, to no avail. I think he has disowned me.

He and his wife want the military life, it seems that they or at least the wife think it glamorous,...he has not been to “war” ...yet.

I am a failure.

Report this

By Textynn, September 7, 2010 at 8:57 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I don’t believe that anyone except those that profit from war want war.  I think it is nothing but a scam for making money for the elite and getting more resources for the same elite. The same people making all the profits on these wars are the same people that own and control the spoils.

How is this anything that the people should be a party to. Terrorist can be hunted like any criminals without wars against entire nations that are just people trying to live.  War is a farce, a game for people that play with other people like pawns.

America is Empire building pure and simple. Our belief system is a travesty and a disgrace. We have a power elite that teaches wealth to the top over the lives of innocents. This is unevolved and the spoils are nothing more than the forced continuation of a dying technology that we have plenty of knowledge to do without. Yet we are forced to burn dirty energy that is killing us with pollution and killing the fragile sustaining planet and we are forced to continue using it. 

Our leaders don’t serve us, they serve themselves. We must find a way to move away from the lie that is the two party system. 

Dear Carlos, don’t let ever let them forget. Every precious man, woman, and child should be saved from this.

Report this
BR549's avatar

By BR549, September 7, 2010 at 7:25 pm Link to this comment

Elisalouisa,

Yes, that 18-25 year old bracket is a death trap. There’s a reason that auto insurance rates for that age group are so high; because the kids, usually males, haven’t got a GD clue as to what life is about and yet they’re all ready to waste theirs because they can’t control their testosterone. Here we are in 2010 and still being saddled with the hormones of the Neanderthals.

Report this

By elisalouisa, September 7, 2010 at 6:30 pm Link to this comment

My post of September 7 at 9:59 pm:Redhorse  Correction: Could the e-mail addresses of those registered at such sites be
compromised.

Report this

By ofersince72, September 7, 2010 at 6:18 pm Link to this comment

Night Gaunt,  we agree that the truth is offensive.

Report this

By elisalouisa, September 7, 2010 at 5:59 pm Link to this comment

Your response is gratifying Gold Star Father I just found it difficult to understand the messenger of such bad news, your post has helped me. I agree that for America to survive we must immediately bring all our troops home, care for them and prosecute those who promoted these ill-fated wars. Such people are admired by some and war mongers are given access to main stream media to further promote wars as is evidenced by the war drums concerning Iran. Carlos Arredondo is the brave one. Hopefully, our young people who are flirting with the idea of taking advantage of bonuses offered if they join the military shall think twice when hearing the words of Carlos Arredondo.
Your posts Redhorse speak the truth. Of course, sites are monitored. The question is, could the e-mails of those registered at such sites ever be compromised.
I believe the legal age when one is considered an adult is 18 BR549; recruiters for the military go to high schools and offer those big bonuses for joining the Armed Forces. As to legal drinking age that may not be the same. In other words, you can go have your brains blown out at 18 but having a drink is a different story.

Report this

By ofersince72, September 7, 2010 at 5:02 pm Link to this comment

The proof is the VOTE… don’t need anymore proof than
that!!$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Talk peace, vote war…............Democrat supporters…

Report this

By gerard, September 7, 2010 at 4:30 pm Link to this comment

Some choices can be sensibly made using the “nothing too much” Greek adage.  A little bit is okay, but too much is bad. 
  War is a matter where this sort of “tolerance” never works out in practice.  “A little bit of war” or “war only under certain circumstanes” always leads to a little more for some other reason, then a little more, etc. etc. until we have waded in over everybody’s head—victor and victim.
  War demands an absolute refusal.  But not just a loud NO! That doesn’t work either. 
  War has to not only be eliminated, but it has to be replaced with positive and peaceable alternatives that are backed by mutual knowledge,  honesty, patience and fairness, all of which take practice and experience gained through tireless negotiation and a willingness to come to terms with all sides of problems.
  Peace-making practice and experience will never be gained so long as wars continue to be the knee-jerk response to problems, whether among people, among factions or among nations.
  People who say it is not possible to get rid of war will have to be convinced through experience that peace is not only preferable but possible.
  Modern wars have become so destructive that they are no longer practical. 99% of the people in the world don’t want war and would get rid of it if they knew how.  Learning and teaching others how is the most important job facing humanity today.
  Small and large scale efforts and experiments are made here and there, with varying degrees of success and failure. But little is being done to archive these experiments. The internet could be better used in this regard.
  The U.S. government, for one, needs a Department of Peace to take on this desperately needed job. Give it just a small part of the budget given the Department of Defense (War) for a couple years and see what would happen.
  The human imagination is screaming for a chance to be let out of its cage and stretch its wings!

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, September 7, 2010 at 2:52 pm Link to this comment

Blueboy1938 how is the invasion of Afghanistan warranted? Especially in 2009 where all relevance from 2001 is lost.

Al-Quaida isn’t a national entity. Attacking a hose country because it didn’t respond fast enough to the USA is an awful reason. Though the Taliban ruled Afghanistan (after throwing out the hated National Alliance) they couldn’t just move the Al-Quaida out or even arrest them. But the planners of war didn’t care. Still don’t now.

Report this
Blueboy1938's avatar

By Blueboy1938, September 7, 2010 at 2:10 pm Link to this comment

Of course, it is tragic to lose a child to war.  Naturally, it would be better if there
were no more wars.  Unfortunately, the real world hosts those who would use
violence to further their aims.  That’s what happened on September 11, 2001. 
Thousands died on American soil.  That was almost exactly 60 years since that
had happened before at Pearl Harbor, December 7, 1941.

A military response - the invasion of Afghanistan - was an appropriate
response to this heinous act.  The diversion to Iraq was not.  Perhaps, if G. W.
Bush had kept his eye on the ball, Alex Arredondo would not have perished as
he did.  His distraught father would have been spared his grief.  Inevitably,
some other son would have died in Afghanistan whose father would become
hysterical from his loss.  There would still have been tragedies to recount.

However, voting against Democratic office holders will do nothing to end the
current conflicts.  The Republicans and the conservative commentariat are even
more likely to keep us mired in middle east conflicts than the Democrats.  It will
not end war as a response to national outrages.  In fact, with the rise of
“asymmetrical” conflicts, there may be more, not less.  They will cause losses
which, when examined in detail as is done with that of Carlos Arredondo, will
appear equally tragic and senseless.  Electing those who are reluctant to use
war except as a last resort makes sense, but electing those who would avoid
war at all costs or those too ready to fight does not.

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, September 7, 2010 at 1:18 pm Link to this comment

By <b>ofersince72</i>, September 7 at 3:03 pm Link to this comment

All you Democrat supporters that write to make people think you are so concerned about dead war victims, who are you trying to fool?  You too Hedges.

Wow, all without a lick of proof. Well done! Just like the Repubs and DINO’s. Give some proof or be a DINO or whatever you think you are, offensivesince72.

Report this

By REDHORSE, September 7, 2010 at 12:48 pm Link to this comment

We are not all “savages”, nor or are we all “Saints”. New lines of demarcation have redefined our humanity and this New World has dictated the terms of its conquest beforehand. We are children without map, compass, language or weapon. We have only each other. We who must submit, or perish.

Report this
moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, September 7, 2010 at 11:41 am Link to this comment

Redhorse,

Common compassion—the modus operandi of Buddhism.  It’s significant that the west is all about violence and imposition in the name of “civilization”.

As a Native person, I prefer tobe the “savage”, rather than the “civilized” fascist barbarian that has brought us as a species—and many others who did no harm—to the brink of oblivion.

Report this

By REDHORSE, September 7, 2010 at 11:22 am Link to this comment

True MOONRAVEN—Many (I didn’t always agree with, but found interesting, and some I had no interest in at all) have disappeared from TRUTHDIG. I’m not sure the TRUTHDIG staff is on the C.I.A. payroll but I am sure the site is “monitored”. Paranoid distrust and attempted control of truthful free thought and emotional expression is a hallmark of the megalomaniacal narcissist. (Think Cheney-Mussolini-or Rubin.) In reality, as I’ve said before, I suspect we’re all pretty small potatoes.

    Imperialism and Empire kill mindlessly for the sake of resource and expedience. A “war president” and “war economy” by nature sees no non-combatants. Alex and his family, like the Iraqi civilian dead, have face, life and voice only to those who bear personal witness to the horror of their destruction. Otherwise, they are a cost statistic. The moral economics of the human soul demand balance, reverence and acceptance of “H"uman “C"onsciousness. It is obvious that the evolution of the American Psyche has at last unmasked the daemonic forces that have prevented our realization of the Ideals of Human Dignity to which we have so long aspired. But, the battle is beyond just “We the people—”. To paraphrase the Christ, it is not that we might “—-gain the whole world and lose our only soul—-”, but there is an even chance the World, our Souls and the entire Human Future is forfeit. Bush, Cheney, the Clintons, Boehner, and the Wall Street baboons they serve are all people of the lie. When President Obama allowed them to walk free without prosecution he acquiesced. I do not know what we poor humans trapped inside this visionless insanity are to do, but I know they are no longer relevant to our future survival. We are all infected. Acceptance, forgiveness, common compassion and unity is our only forward path.

Report this

By ofersince72, September 7, 2010 at 11:03 am Link to this comment

All you Democrat supporters that write to make people

think you are so concerned about dead war victims,

who are you trying to fool?  You too Hedges.

Report this

By gerard, September 7, 2010 at 10:35 am Link to this comment

To find out more about what war and killing are really like, look up Iraq Veterans Against the War. (There may also now be an Afghanistan Veterans similar organization; I’m not sure.  For information on how to prepare to become a conscientioius objector, or to unsign recruitment papers, go to Central Committee for Conscientious Objectors to War in Washington, D.C. They’ve been through several wars and give reliable advice. Religious Society of Friends, Mennonite and Brethren churches are supporters of conscientious objection to all wars.
Those are some of the main resources kids should now about but don’t usually. Information is primary.

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, September 7, 2010 at 9:43 am Link to this comment

One of the main reasons why we don’t have a draft are that besides the military opening the doors to just about anybody who is still breathing, stop loss, and heavy reliance on corporate soldiers is the Depression we are in. With literally no where else to go most of the unemployed including those in the prime age of 17-24 are enlisting in droves. There they get money, training and a chance to kill Muslims for Christ. At least that is what too many of them are saying.

Islam has replaced Soviet Communism as the reason to go to war this century. Not a good thing that.

Report this
moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, September 7, 2010 at 9:00 am Link to this comment

Redhorse is right:  No “meaningful discussion” is possible because grunts (and every citizen of the USA except for a very few extremely rich and connected ones are grunts, makeno mistake about it) have no power to meaningfully discuss and decide anything.

The deciders are Big Bucks, Big Guns, Big Banks and Big Oil. 

Sites like this one are just safety valves.  Anyone who goes too far in condemning the system or promoting a minority point of view is summarily banned by the editors—who probably even receive money from the CIA, FBI and other budgets of the minions of Big Bucks, Big Oil and Company to continue to provide that safety valve—so long as they toe the line and shitcan the folks who mayhave some ideas about what to do about some of the obscenities such as the syatem of APARTHEID in North America.

Report this

By David J. Cyr, September 7, 2010 at 7:44 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

When the masses of UFPJ marching liberals who said they opposed “Bush’s War”
cast the majority of the votes providing the 99% popular mandate for Obama’s
wars, their act was the Pentagon’s DREAM come true.

A person can be progressive, or they can be a Democrat; but they can’t be both at
the same time.

Report this

Page 1 of 2 pages  1 2 >

 
Right 1, Site wide - BlogAds Premium
 
Right 2, Site wide - Blogads
 
Join the Liberal Blog Advertising Network
 
 
 
Right Skyscraper, Site Wide
 
Join the Liberal Blog Advertising Network
 

A Progressive Journal of News and Opinion   Publisher, Zuade Kaufman   Editor, Robert Scheer
© 2014 Truthdig, LLC. All rights reserved.

Like Truthdig on Facebook