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War of the Whales


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There Goes the Republic

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Posted on Dec 15, 2011
AP / Pablo Martinez Monsivais

By Robert Scheer

Once again the gods of war have united our Congress like nothing else. Unable to agree on the minimal spending necessary to save our economy, schools, medical system or infrastructure, the cowards who mislead us have retreated to the irrationalities of what George Washington in his farewell address condemned as “pretended patriotism.”

The defense authorization bill that Congress passed and President Obama had threatened to veto will soon become law, a fact that should be met with public outrage. Human Rights Watch Executive Director Kenneth Roth, responding to Obama’s craven collapse on the bill’s most controversial provision, said, “By signing this defense spending bill, President Obama will go down in history as the president who enshrined indefinite detention without trial in U.S. law.” On Wednesday, White House press secretary Jay Carney claimed “the most recent changes give the president additional discretion in determining how the law will be implemented, consistent with our values and the rule of law, which are at the heart of our country’s strength.”

What rubbish, coming from a president who taught constitutional law. The point is not to hock our civil liberty to the discretion of the president, but rather to guarantee our freedoms even if a Dick Cheney or Newt Gingrich should attain the highest office.

Sadly, this flagrant subversion of the constitutionally guaranteed right to due process of law was opposed in the Senate by only seven senators, including libertarian Republican Rand Paul and progressive Independent Bernie Sanders.

That onerous provision of the defense budget bill, much discussed on the Internet but far less so in the mass media, assumes a permanent war against terrorism that extends the battlefield to our homeland. It reeks of a militarized state that threatens the foundations of our republican form of government.

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This is not only a disaster in the making for civil liberty but a blow to effective anti-terrorist police work. Recall that it was the FBI that was most effective in interrogating al-Qaida suspects before the military let loose the torturers. Under the newly approved legislation, that bypassing of civilian experts will be codified as a routine option for a president.

As The New York Times editorialized, the bill “would take the most experienced and successful anti-terrorism agencies—the F.B.I. and federal prosecutors—out of the business of interrogating, charging and trying most terrorism cases, and turn the job over to the military.” Not only has FBI Director Robert Mueller III opposed this shift in the law, but so has Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, who previously ran the CIA.

What’s alarming is not just that one pernicious aspect of the defense spending bill, but the ease with which an otherwise deadlocked Congress that can’t manage minimal funding for job creation and unemployment relief can find the money to fund at Cold War levels a massive sophisticated arsenal to defeat an enemy that no longer exists.

Throwing $662 billion, plus hundreds of billions more in non-Pentagon “security” programs, at what that other great-general-turned-president, Dwight Eisenhower, condemned as the “military-industrial complex,” with its tentacles in every congressional district, is an act of absurdity in a world bereft of a serious military challenge to the United States. Not even the best-funded terrorists can afford aircraft carriers.

There is simply no militarily significant enemy in sight, yet we spend almost as much on our armed forces as the rest of the world combined, and are already ludicrously superior in military might to any rogue power, like Iran, that might threaten us. The hawks who attempt to justify Cold War levels of spending on advanced weaponry by reviving “Red China” as a formidable enemy are undermined in their argument by China’s sharply limited regional force projection. The real leverage that China exercises over U.S. policy options is not military but rather economic and derives precisely from the fact that we have gone into debt to those same communists in order to fund our irrational military spending.

Military spending is rationalized with patriotic froth, but it is driven by the unfortunate fact that it is the most reliable source of government-funded profits and jobs. It is an obviously inefficient use of resources as a means of lifting the overall economy compared with building infrastructure and training workers for the jobs of the future, but don’t count on Congress or the president to change that dynamic anytime soon. The White House’s five-year projection of defense spending aims not at the one-third budget cut initiated by the first President Bush in response to the end of the Cold War, but at a “flattening” of military expenditures between 2013 and 2017.

We had every right to expect President Obama to stick to his word and veto this bill, not as a means of forcing a much needed bigger cut in government waste, but more urgently because its assault on the Constitution’s requirement of due process represents a direct threat to the freedom of the American people every bit as menacing as any we face from foreign enemies.

Click here to check out Robert Scheer’s book,
“The Great American Stickup: How Reagan Republicans and Clinton Democrats Enriched Wall Street While Mugging Main Street.”


Keep up with Robert Scheer’s latest columns, interviews, tour dates and more at www.truthdig.com/robert_scheer.



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By Sylvia Barksdale, January 4, 2012 at 9:55 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

POEM

      While in silent contemplation
      One takes notice of the nation,
      What mood it takes, what tone
      and sound,
      Just how well she’s moving ‘round.

      As one views this vast portrait
      Somber thought begin to lurk
      And the scheme of things,
      The theme of things
      Goes panting, pacing
      Down,
      Down,
      Down.

      One conjectures, prays and weeps
      With Father Time and Mother Nature
      And in the true heart’s earnest yearning
      Entreats the soul should shine yet brighter
      Like a star in every man;
      That the light of love so near
      Extinguished
      Should flicker to flame
      And burn away this great erosion
      Brought down alone by the humanthing.

Poen inspired by Robert Scheer’s, There Goes the Republic

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By Foucauldian, December 26, 2011 at 5:49 pm Link to this comment

... discussing ..

Sorry!

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By Foucauldian, December 26, 2011 at 5:47 pm Link to this comment

Hetero,

Can’t help but agree.

And btw, re: the class thing we’ve been discussion
earlier, here’s the link to recent article on the
subject:

http://tinyurl.com/84xpwx3

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By heterochromatic, December 26, 2011 at 5:29 pm Link to this comment

~~~~Any form of force or coercion is evil…~~~~

nah. sometimes force is the only moral response.

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By Foucauldian, December 26, 2011 at 5:20 pm Link to this comment

Right on!  We haven’t reached the rock bottom yet.

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By LocalHero, December 26, 2011 at 12:01 pm Link to this comment

Any form of force or coercion is evil so I do not vote but I will do everything in my power to make sure that Obama is humiliated by defeat in the next election.

I welcome Newt Nitwit (or any of the Revolting Right fascists) as president as it will only facilitate the total & swift destruction of the military-industrial-pharmaceutical-media-financial complex.

Report this

By Foucauldian, December 20, 2011 at 2:06 pm Link to this comment

It’s my ultimate default position.  Meanwhile, we’ve
got to do what’s humanly possible to make the world a
better place.

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, December 20, 2011 at 1:55 pm Link to this comment

Glad you mentioned the Kingdom of God… for so long as those who care to…. walk as the Christ did, then they’ll be ok.. whether living a long life in peace ( regardless of the political climate, tyranny or freedom ) or being ripped to shreds for your beliefs.. either way,  you’ll be in a better place when all is said and done!

Peace to You and to All.

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By Foucauldian, December 20, 2011 at 1:29 pm Link to this comment

... than what’s given by ...

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By Foucauldian, December 20, 2011 at 1:27 pm Link to this comment

Well, there’s something to be said for feudal
relations, for they tend to more “humane” insofar
as they’re more grounded in such outdated notions
as loyalty, allegiance and fiefdom, than the forces
of the impersonal market place.  And we’re surely
seeing a resurgence of the old system in organized
crime, drug cartels in South America, as a reaction
to the ways of an overbearing state.  Still, the
system is less than ideal from the Marxian
perspective.

Besides, I happen to believe the moral arc of the
universe bends at the elbow of justice, so in my
thinking, the reverses are only temporary. 
Eventually, we shall find and forge and way.

And in the absence of that, we may just have to
wait for the Kingdom of God to establish its
rightful order on earth. 

I don’t believe in waiting, however, for I believe
in the power of human agency.  We can certainly do
better that what’s given by the present
geopolitical configuration.

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, December 20, 2011 at 1:17 pm Link to this comment

No man-made system is perfect my friend.

But the typical backlash ( historically ) is feudalism after empire has lost steam and the people have unfettered the chains of tyranny.

I am not an advocate, just stating the repetitiveness of history and man’s actions.

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By Foucauldian, December 20, 2011 at 1:05 pm Link to this comment

Understand, my man, I’m not all that keen on
national sovereignty either, because it’s a source
of trouble in its own right.  And for a time, I was
cheering the idea of UE insofar that it promised to
curb the wishes and whims of “independent” nation-
states.  But once it had become apparent that
financial rather than purely political interests
emerged as running the whole show, I’ll always opt
for the latter. 

The project of United World is still premature if
it must rest on these foundations. 

Back to the drawing board, I guess.

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, December 20, 2011 at 12:55 pm Link to this comment

Cheers Foucauldian, I am glad someone understands!

Please spread the word.. another country has become Sovereign and has removed itself from the empire…. now there are four.

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By Foucauldian, December 20, 2011 at 12:13 pm Link to this comment

Excellent link on Iceland, Napolean.  I’d argue that
freeing ourselves from under the stranglehold of the
global financial system is the requisite first step
on the road to dismantling capitalism.

Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal should definitely
follow suit.  It’s high time for a showdown.

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By heterochromatic, December 20, 2011 at 12:08 pm Link to this comment

drb, the death rate ultimately stands at 100%. you’ve every right to think as you
will.

enjoy.

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By drbhelthi, December 20, 2011 at 11:24 am Link to this comment

@heterochromatic
“Getting buzzed is fine, and I’ve spent a fair bit of time and money doing it, but let’s be
honest.”

“Let us be honest.” 
“US”?  “Honest”?  You wish to dictate to others to perform within the boundaries that you
establish as honesty?  While you continue to disinform.  Certainly, your standard.

When discussing health and chemical compounds that are called medications, it is
more accurate to be precise.  Allopathic medicine has extensive expertise with ramming
its pharma compounds up the public´s asses.  Worthless “marinol” should be trashed,
and cannabis used in all such cases.

The only thing that should be inserted in a man´s anus is the finger of a knowledgeable
physician who does a finger wave on the prostate.  Wives should be taught to do a
finger wave on their husband´s prostate of men over 40, and every thirty days.  That
would reduce prostate cancer tremendously, and increase hubby´s performance.

No one is cured by “chemotherapy.”  Any cure comes from within the body.  Numerous
physicians have been railroaded for publicizing the truth about “chemotherapy” which
does not deserve the title of “therapy.”  With a consistent death rate of 92%, it should be
adjudicated illegal, and many physicians within oncology tried as criminals.

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, December 20, 2011 at 11:06 am Link to this comment

Back to the topic ( again ) of the Republic and how to get her back:

Here is the best news and reality check you all have needed to hear / read for quite some time!

http://www.truth-out.org/why-iceland-should-be-news-not/1322327303

You’re welcome.

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By heterochromatic, December 20, 2011 at 11:00 am Link to this comment

NG~~~ bothers me?  naw.  I do think that smoking the stuff (or any plant) ain’t
likely to be good for you if your lungs do it a lot and for long.

My position is that people ingest marijuana to get high, not because it has a
unique and irreplaceable value as a medicine. it doesn’t and the argument
shouldn’t be taken seriously.

I’m entirely for ending the prohibition on pot.  I started evading the law at 14 and
by 16 began disobeying it daily until the night, some 13 years later, that my first
child was born.

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By Night-Gaunt, December 20, 2011 at 10:34 am Link to this comment

Yes lets be honest you just don’t like the idea that people are inhaling it. Whether through a vaporizer or cooled smoke. It just bothers you so you would go all out of the way to do it by more complicated means. Fine you do that but let others do it their way. You are for ending the fascist drug war aren’t you? After 94 years of failure it might be time now, if the propaganda can be reversed.

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By heterochromatic, December 20, 2011 at 10:30 am Link to this comment

NG~~~~  Not often are people unable to keep down a pill, and for chemo patients,
a significant portion of the marinol -ingesting population, the onset of nausea can
be anticipated and the pill ingested 90 min prior.

Those who are unable to swallow and keep it down…..can have it administered at
the other end.

If they’re too nauseous for marinol, then scopolamine or even morphine beats hell
out of getting the vapors.

Getting buzzed is fine, and I’ve spent a fair bit of time and money doing it, but
let’s be honest.

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By drbhelthi, December 20, 2011 at 2:26 am Link to this comment

It is wise to keep in mind, that pharmaceutical companies must obtain a patent on their chemical condoms in order to make a profit.  A physician friend told me recently that Aborigines use a bark from one specific tree to cure cancer.  A pharma company has extracted from the bark, the chemicals that >alledgedly< do the job, and has obtained favorable results via experimentation, with >one< form of cancer that is found in women.

Meanwhile, Aborigines continue to cure all cancers with tea from the bark, while pharma companies softshoe publicly with the marvelous discovery they have made.  Which, of course, will never function properly without the associated chemicals that naturally occur, per ardee.  Similarly, native folk in the Amazon continue to cure all forms of cancer with tea from “Lapacho”, which hundreds(thousands) of Americans and Europeans have also undertaken. The tea is also an effective preventative against many illnesses, not only cancer.

In order to insure that physicians and pharma companies maintain their level of profits, and to insure that the public comes down with last years flu virus, run down to your local drugstore and get a flu shot (made from last year´s virus).  Just think- the shot might even give you a serious illness that would put you into the hospital for a couple weeks, further increasing allopathic medicine´s profit margin !  Of course, if you are one of the fifty million Americans with marginally adequate, or NO health insurance, you can always sign away your future income with an I.O.U. to the hospital. Or, perhaps NOT.

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By Night-Gaunt, December 19, 2011 at 5:36 pm Link to this comment

Science and logic if not the much abused “common sense.” Since you can’t swallow and hold down a pill how do you introduce it the system? Either intravenously or through inhaling it. Only a dummy would swallow a pill they will vomit up soon after.

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By ardee, December 19, 2011 at 5:20 pm Link to this comment

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/03/health/main5209380.shtml

“Marinol provides standardized THC concentrations, does not contain the other 400 uncharacterized substances found in smoked marijuana, such as carcinogens or fungal spores, and is not associated with the quick high of smoked marijuana,” said Neil Hirsch, a spokesman for Marinol manufacturer Solvay Pharmaceuticals.

But Marinol is not the same thing as traditional, smokable marijuana. It is a less complex substance lacking both some of the good components found in traditional marijuana (such as cannabidiol, which has been found to have anti-seizure effects) and the bad or not-yet-fully-understood components (among them potential carcinogens) that can also come with the drug.

Ken Trainer, a 60-year-old Massachusetts resident who has battled Multiple Sclerosis for 25 years, said he has long been smoking marijuana to deal with the regular tremors he gets in his arms and legs.

“If I smoke a joint, the tremors go away most times before the joint is gone,” he said. “It makes my life a little easier.” Marinol, by contrast, “didn’t really do much of anything for me,” he said.

56-year-old Des Moines resident Jeff Elton, who was diagnosed with gastroparesis six years ago, had a similar experience when he was prescribed Marinol to deal with his chronic nausea and vomiting.

“I felt no relief, I didn’t feel ill, I felt nothing,” he said. “It might as well be M&M’s.”

Elton said he switched to marijuana, which he smokes through a vaporizer - a device that heats the active ingredients into a vapor instead of burning them. He said it allows him to keep down his food and regain some of the weight he lost while on Marinol.

“[One] problem with Marinol is that it’s orally administered,” Dr. Mitch Earleywine, an associate professor of Clinical Psychology at the State University of New York at Albany, said in an email. “Therefore, it takes longer to work than cannabis inhaled from a vaporizer. (Usually 90 minutes at best rather than 15 seconds - a meaningful amount of time to the nauseated.)”

“It’s harder to control dosage, too, so folks end up discombobulated or without symptom relief,” he added. “In addition, folks who are vomiting can’t hold down the pills.” Earleywine also said that a dose Marinol costs three to five times as much as a comparable dose of medical marijuana.

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By heterochromatic, December 19, 2011 at 9:31 am Link to this comment

N-G~~~~“Marinol is a solid pill and the people who need the stomach calming
effects can’t use it. It must be inhaled to do so.”


may I ask what you’re basing that claim upon?

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, December 19, 2011 at 8:45 am Link to this comment

HeteroNosexual:

Que diriez-vous travailler pour vous au lieu de l’empire? Ou mieux encore, que diriez-vous émanciper de votre esclavage mental?

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By Night-Gaunt, December 19, 2011 at 8:42 am Link to this comment

Marinol is a solid pill and the people who need the stomach calming effects can’t use it. It must be inhaled to do so.

Report this

By heterochromatic, December 19, 2011 at 1:07 am Link to this comment

Napies~~~  la couleur ne vous reconnais c’est de la merde brun et il est de votre
propre

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By heterochromatic, December 19, 2011 at 1:04 am Link to this comment

Mem Stick~~~~heterochromatic, December 16 at 4:14 pm:

It’s interesting, isn’t it, that while the Feds scamper around telling everyone
who will still listen that “there is no medical use for cannabis” ~~~

there are LIMITED medical uses for cannabis. the mrs. would give, to some
terminal patients, Marinol~~~~ which is FDA approved
so clearly the Feds DON’T say that there are no approved uses for the stuff.

they do say, and quite correctly, that there really aren’t any medical reason to
smoke the shit. (It’s said to be of slight help with treating glaocoma, but there
are far better ways)

No matter what anyone might allege, drawing smoke into your lungs is not
good and smoking marijuana is ingesting all sorts of stuff other than the THC.

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By cpb, December 18, 2011 at 10:48 pm Link to this comment

“And if the military has the means to do so, then it
should be allowed to do so. The Looney Left is barking
up the wrong tree if it thinks that the drones will be
used to sniff out their marijuana plants growing in the
garage.”


“US Numero Uno for obesity related deaths! And Number 2
for alcohol-liver-disease, see here.

YES!!!! Go Amerika!!!!”


“How any of this harms the individual rights of
Americans and thus perpetuates the “police state” is
difficult to perceive. Someone open my eyes.”


“And you are just mouthing the platitudes of the Looney
Left who, disgusted with their lot, despondent with
life, need a punching bag to expend their pent-up
frustration.”

- Laff


Been gone awhile.  Barely lurking,nevermind posting. 
The internet really is TV squared.  But I digress…

Don’t recall hearing much in the way of allegations of
trolling behavior against the Laff before.  So I pick up
on that and do some thread review.

omg!

A complete reformation.  New vocabulary, patterns of
grammar & expression.  A revised perspective and a
revised delivery.  Only the pretentious pic is the same.

It seems there has been a file reassignment down at
PsiOp HQ.  Or is it Ashols.right.org?  Or did the bored
rich kid who apparently has plenty of time to commit to
a project of ‘debate enhancement’ just get confused with
his multiple trolling accounts?

I have never seen such a clear shift of personality in
an avatar before.

This new Laff is familiar somehow… but what is it? I
can’t quite put my finger on it.

Sniff sniff…

Eau de Krazo?  Inherited Wind?

Anyone else smell fish?

cpb


PS.  EmileZ you rock.  You’ve got something going on
that I don’t expect to ever understand, but no matter,
rock on.

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, December 18, 2011 at 7:07 pm Link to this comment

Thank you drbhelthi, cheers and good evening to you sir.

HeteroNobody… you have already shown your true colors my comrade… just go ahead and open up another handle and try again.

Report this

By heterochromatic, December 18, 2011 at 11:54 am Link to this comment

actully,I’m using an Apple at home in New York.

megacomputers from Langley???


feeling a bit grandiose are we, dr?

Report this

By kibitzer, December 18, 2011 at 11:14 am Link to this comment

Meanwhile, getting back to this blog, and its important message…I can hear a
voice coming down to us of this day and age - this moment in time - from the
Founding Fathers, if not higher:

‘The time is nigh.  You here hold the destiny of this nation - and indeed,
through that inheritance, the fate of the world - in your hands.  Don’t let it slip
from your grasp, into the hands of lesser mortals, who will not honor its
creation as you are capable of, if you will rise to this occasion; as, in any event,
you have been assigned to.

‘For it is your assignment, to fulfill; your decision to make.  Do not drop this
ball; this weight; this gift.  You may never have such an opportunity to do so
much good again.

‘Choose well.  Much depends on this outcome.

‘The world awaits your decision.  For good.  Or ill.

‘Prove it right, that YOU were chosen for this job, and opportunity.’

I, personally, believe that we will ‘rise to the occasion’, and do the job, that it is
ours to do.  But time will tell.

Our time.

Our place.

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By drbhelthi, December 18, 2011 at 10:57 am Link to this comment

@Napoleon DoneHisPart

The shill who uses the alias, heterochromatic, is obviously a puppet who is assigned to counter the information I provide with disinformation.  It seems that the person is using a megacomputer, probably Langley, or Huntsville.  Sad, that the person is not free to support accuracy and freedom.  Obviously, the person has never gazed into the sky at night and asked where it all came from, nor questioned what happens to the “life spark” when the body expires.

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, December 18, 2011 at 9:01 am Link to this comment

It always comes down to personal attacks or poor humor on these boards…

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By heterochromatic, December 18, 2011 at 8:50 am Link to this comment

“... In the mid-1970s, Mrs. Brussell reported a death threat from a Charles
Manson follower. She had alleged in a radio broadcast that the Manson Family
was working with the Los Angeles Sheriff’s Department to commit mass
murders….’

———————————————————
drb

........“Some of us were on the “inside” at the time…”..........


why am I not surprised?

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By drbhelthi, December 18, 2011 at 12:35 am Link to this comment

Revealing information was broadcast by the patriotic Jewish lady, Mrs. Mae Brussell 1976 until just prior to her death. Similarly informative information was published by the patriotic Jewish journalist, Mr. Sherman Skolnick from about 1980 until his untimely death about five years ago. Some of us were on the “inside” at the time, and well aware of the validity of the info they published.  Obviously, many Americans continue to believe that this “couldn´t happen” in the U.S.A.

If there is a USPresidential “election” in 2012, that which has happened since 1970 will continue until American Patriots are voted into congressional slots, with Congressman Ron Paul as the President of the United States of America and the Republic for which it stands.

This link displays what happens to CIA employees who told the truth.  That is, those who were not assassinated.  I suspect it will happen to thousands of Americans presently, under the Barack H. Obama, extended version of the Patriot Act
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxJTwbHdH6k&feature=youtu.be

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, December 17, 2011 at 5:28 pm Link to this comment

Thanks balkas… I seem to be ignored for the most part on TD…. for the trolls / agent provocateurs ( those the subject in the first post I made on here ) keep chatting with each other about nonsense.

I feel like the 1% who sees and understands… if only my bank account reflected this… I’d probably be somewhere else watching Amerika fall into the abyss with a bag of popcorn.

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By ardee, December 17, 2011 at 5:02 pm Link to this comment

Everyone commenting here will just vote for Obuma again come next election - Americans don’t have the will or backbone to bring in a third party with a leader like Ralph Nader,

The same old garbage from someone rapidly becoming the usual source of such..Congrats.

I wonder exactly how many here voted for Obama? I have voted Nader three elections in a row now. But, of course, facts are such a nuisance to some.Isnt that right bpawk, December 17 at 9:33 am

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By balkas, December 17, 2011 at 4:32 pm Link to this comment

napolean,
republic was lost millennia ago. the cause? THE THOUGHT that already
existed in egypt, sumer, indus valley, china from 8 to 4 millennia ago and
from 3 k yrs ago in persia, greece, rome and ca 2 k yrs for germanics and
slavs.

had the masses known this 8 k yrs ago of for most euros just 2 k yrs ago
[that they’d be eternally used, abused, and sacrificed on the altar of THE
THOUGHT] they might have gone for it: we or u!
but, not to worry, all is not yet lost. there is still time to tell THEM [THE
OGRISH THEM] my way or highway!
but s’mbody has to tell them this! maybe OWS is onto this etern truth? hope
so!

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By joegod, December 17, 2011 at 3:38 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

i can no longer in good faith support our President or the DNC. It didn’t start
with this, but it ends here.Because I know there are some genuinely
honest,hardworking people who identify as Democrat(as well as
Republican,for that matter),who may still be in denial about the duopoly our
political system actually is. Unless Obama pulls something out of his ass
sometime over the next 11 months that is impossible for the majority not to
get behind because it will be undeniably good for the country, he will not win
in 2012 by anything but default.

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, December 17, 2011 at 12:34 pm Link to this comment

The Republic was lost long ago… when the central bank was installed. 

The paradigm is becoming clearer for very few… but the conditioning keeps many on here arguing over silly things.

Should I just move on?  I have posted the words of someone who clearly describes what has already happened.. but of which people think ‘is’ happening.. but again, already has taken place.

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By Foucauldian, December 17, 2011 at 10:42 am Link to this comment

Ir’s no nonsense, truedigger.  At first, I take ideas
at face value, one hardly has a choice in the matter
online.  Soon after, I recognize inauthentic speech
when I see one, and decide not to engage such
persons.  But even authentic speech must at times be
ignored if the person is too deep into their rabbit
hole—as it’s simply a waste of energy.

In the long run, ideas rule.

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By bpawk, December 17, 2011 at 10:33 am Link to this comment

As the article states: “...Human Rights Watch Executive Director Kenneth Roth, responding to Obama’s craven collapse on the bill’s most controversial provision, said, “By signing this defense spending bill, President Obama will go down in history as the president who enshrined indefinite detention without trial in U.S. law.” ...

Everyone commenting here will just vote for Obuma again come next election - Americans don’t have the will or backbone to bring in a third party with a leader like Ralph Nader, so hush up!

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By drbhelthi, December 17, 2011 at 10:10 am Link to this comment

“The point is not to hock our civil liberty to the discretion of the
president, but rather to guarantee our freedoms even if a Dick
Cheney or Newt Gingrich should attain the highest office.”

Yea, verily !
Three cheers for Robert Sheer !

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, December 17, 2011 at 9:40 am Link to this comment

Perhaps we can get back on topic and discuss:

“Our Enemy: The State” by Albert Jay Nock.

This was written in 1935, and the man clearly identifies the cout de tat which was by ‘purchase’ and not by war or violence… and perhaps THIS will show clearly the left = right = dem = rep = all of them are hired hands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yETTgJY0SM&sns=fb

It is read by someone, so you can listen to the parallels of today ( this could have been written today, but it shows we’ve had this ‘problem’ since then, as I’ve been stating all along ).

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By heterochromatic, December 17, 2011 at 9:26 am Link to this comment

ardee, Romney IS the frontrunner and has been throughout. All the hoopla on the
Republican side is involved in trying to promote a candidate OTHER than Romney,
who is perceived as too liberal for many of the far-right Repubs and non-Christian
by the Evangelicals.

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By ardee, December 17, 2011 at 9:13 am Link to this comment

Lafayette, December 17 at 7:46 am

I do find it rather telling that, as your worthless political views are pressured, you resort increasingly to twelve year old stupidity. Unlike your increasingly hostile gallery here I do not waste time with the ” actuality” of your self imposed exile from the USA only with the fact of your childishness in the face of valid criticisms of your freaking sell out party and its titular head.

No one , to my knowledge, stated that Obama wouldn’t win the nomination, more bluff and bluster from the increasingly same source of such ( you, jackwagon). Nor is Romney even the current frontrunner in the GOP race.

That you refuse to allow political discussion that happens to be at cross purpose with your fixation and limited political overviews and descent into stupidity is, in the end, your own problem. That you cannot see that, regardless of which party holds the White House, which the Legislature, the course of American domestic and foreign policy remains the same makes a travesty of your opinions here.

Democrats have held the White House AND the Legislature yet the GOP still ran things, or rather the corporations that really run this nation did. You utterly fail to account for this phenomenon in your spittle flecked rants. As you fail to stand up and do the decent thing and castigate Obama for his god awful lies and Bush-like continuation of insane foreign and domestic policies.

Obama may very well be a one term President, but it matters not. The real issues here are ,apparently, far too complex for the likes of you and far above your limited intellectual capabilities to comprehend or rationally discuss.

You are the biggest loser.

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By drbhelthi, December 17, 2011 at 9:02 am Link to this comment

@Lafayette
“Obama WILL win the Dem candidacy. In the end, commentary such
as yours will help Romney get elected.”

Either your crystal ball is constipated, or else your room was not dark
enough when you last tooked.  Perhaps your trance state was
superficlal, similar to your logic ability.

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By Lafayette, December 17, 2011 at 8:46 am Link to this comment

MORONIC IS AS MORONIC DOES

Faux-cul: In the end, the truth will eventually win out.

Wrong again.

Obama WILL win the Dem candidacy. In the end, commentary such as yours will help Romney get elected.

Then you and your ilk can piss and moan in this blog for another 4 years about how life is so unfair because of the 1-percenters. That’s all you are good for ...

Which is moronic.

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By ardee, December 17, 2011 at 6:10 am Link to this comment

Lafayette, December 16 at 6:43 pm Link to this comment

  RD: Obama has created more mess, has reneged on his every promise as well. You gotta be a moron.

Still shilling on this site for the Repubs?

Aren’t you ashamed of yourself?

It is remarks like this that zero in precisely on just how idiotic your reasoning becomes when your positions are pressed. Do you honestly think , given my over two year history of posts here, that your stupidity will be taken seriously by any thinking reader?

Why should I call you a moron when you do such a good job of calling yourself one?

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By truedigger3, December 17, 2011 at 4:52 am Link to this comment

Re: By Foucauldian, December 16 at 7:03 pm

Foucauldian wrote:

“I’m not into casting aspersions, Truedigger.  I don’t care whether Lafayette is on anybody’s payroll or whether he’s acting out on his own.  Macht nicht to me.”
——————————————————————-
Foucauldian,
What kind of nonsense is this statemenet of yours.
Don’t you think it helps you to know whether the other party is discussing in good faith or he is just hired and probably very skillful bullshitter that you will go no where with him and eventially, s/he will wast your time and drain your energy if you are not on guard and in the know???!
I have been blogging in truthdig for years and I know who is that Lafayette is and you are relatively a new comer!
Any way, of course, suite yourself!!.

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By truedigger3, December 17, 2011 at 4:49 am Link to this comment

Re: By Foucauldian, December 16 at 7:03 pm

Foucauldian wrote:

“I’m not into casting aspersions, Truedigger.  I don’t care whether Lafayette is on anybody’s payroll or whether he’s acting out on his own.  Macht nicht to me.”
——————————————————————-
Foucauldian,
What kind of nonsense is this statemenet of yours.
Don’t you think it helps you to know whether the other party is discussing in good faith or he is just a hired and probably very skillful bullshitter that you will go no where with him and eventially, s/he will wast your time and drain your energy if you are not on guard and in the know???!
I have been blogging in truthdig for years and I know who is that Lafayette is and you are relatively a new comer!
Any way, of course, suite yourself!!.

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By Night-Gaunt, December 16, 2011 at 10:29 pm Link to this comment

For evil to win Truth has to be late. Timing is everything and finding out important things that could change today be found out 10 or 20 years from now lessens if not negate its impact. Truth will out but if it is late Falsehood reigns.

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By Foucauldian, December 16, 2011 at 8:03 pm Link to this comment

I’m not into casting aspersions, Truedigger.  I don’t
care whether Lafayette is on anybody’s payroll or
whether he’s acting out on his own.  Macht nicht to
me.

I’m a falsehood buster, troll or not.  And if he
wants to keep on making a fool of himself, let him. 
In the end, the truth will eventually win out.

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By Lafayette, December 16, 2011 at 7:43 pm Link to this comment

RD: Obama has created more mess, has reneged on his every promise as well. You gotta be a moron.

Still shilling on this site for the Repubs?

Aren’t you ashamed of yourself?

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By truedigger3, December 16, 2011 at 7:39 pm Link to this comment

Re: By Foucauldian, December 16 at 5:50 pm

Lafayette is definitely a Troll and a clever and sly one for that matter. He camouflaging himself very skilfully using, sometimes, very good sophistry.
He claim that he is French or partially French, to give the aura of distance and consequently, objectivity. I think he is lying and he is an American who work either in Wall Street or K Street in Washington D.C.

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By Foucauldian, December 16, 2011 at 6:50 pm Link to this comment

And he’s said to be residing in France?

What an epitome for the Ugly American?

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By ardee, December 16, 2011 at 6:17 pm Link to this comment

Lafayette, December 16 at 7:25 am

Your clumsy rant is so beneath you and beyond contempt as well. Poor Barack, just couldnt clean up the mess, OR EVEN TRY you jackwagon blind loyalist. Obama has created more mess, has reneged on his every promise as well. You gotta be a moron.

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By Memory Stick, December 16, 2011 at 6:03 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

@ heterochromatic, December 16 at 4:14 pm:

It’s interesting, isn’t it, that while the Feds scamper around telling everyone who will still listen that “there is no medical use for cannabis” (sure, they call it “marijuana” for a reason…)

Yet, they hold a patent on the use of cannabinoids.

That’s right, it’s no wacky “Conspiracy theory”, the patent document (with a boatload of footnotes detailing the research) is readily available here:

http://www.google.com/patents/US6630507

It’s so famous just a search for the number will call up loads of pages—

6,630,507

Now maybe I’m just dreaming but in my dreams I envision a reporter bringing this up sometime, hopefully this decade but I’m optimistic.

Here’s a candidate that would legalize the plant that the feds hold a patent on (since we are, in essence, “the feds”, isn’t it our patent?)

http://youtu.be/RiJ-bVSSgx4

Ron Paul 2012

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By kibitzer, December 16, 2011 at 5:38 pm Link to this comment

Thank you, Robert, for this article. 

Something not mentioned on this thread (that I was able to scan) was the major point about the making of the American homeland a ‘battlefield’. Thus there goes Posse Comitatus (what has been left of it), and the advent of the clear, unassailable use of the military to handle ‘crowd control’ & such, as the PTB make their move for total takeover; knowing they can’t trust the police to do the job, since their links with their local communities are too strong.  It’s really out there, now.

And that nice-touch reference, “until the end of the hostilities…”  Indefinite detention, indeed.  One can fairly suspect “until the twelfth of Never…”

So: Shall we accept, now, that there’s no specifically socialistic New World Ordure, or specifically fascistic New World Ordure, in our future, in polar opposites to one another, but it’s really the same nest of vipers at the top of the pyramid??  Obama gives off all the aura of a man co-opted.  His heart may be on the Left; but he has been made an offer that he couldn’t refuse.  My bet is
that it was the statement to him that TPTB know all about his background, and they are keeping schtum as long as he is a nice boy, and does what he is told.  Consider the perks of the office…an office that has been appallingly besmirched by all this totalitarian nonsense that has been going on, for too
long now.

It’s time for Change indeed.

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By heterochromatic, December 16, 2011 at 5:14 pm Link to this comment

~~~~Cannabis is not a drug.  Cannabis is a natural
herb, with marvelous healing properties~~~~~

and if you use it as a shampoo it leaves a lovely
greenish sheen.

however, you heat it up a bit and ingest it, you sure
as shit will experience some altered perceptions
induced by the tetrahydrocannabinol running round yer
brain.

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By Fullblad, December 16, 2011 at 5:09 pm Link to this comment

I love Scheer’s insightfull and hard hitting writing; great piece. One comment, Why make the assumption that the government should be concerned with anything it legislates with regards to the people? It should be clear to everyone now that the nature of our governing has changed from a democracy to a percipitatory oligarch. The destruction of the Iraq nation and the taking control of her resourses by corporations was by a corporate war. Hussein made big enemies jerking the price of oil and it’s futures price up and down by modulating the Iraq’s nationalized oil companys production at will.  As for the militarization of the U.S.of A. this is just another step in the progression of such measures starting after 9/11. Can you guess the next one? The time has passed worrying about what the supposedly government of the people is doing to, for ,or against us; or do we need renditions off our streets or dead bodies on those streets to convince us of the true nature of what has befallen our dosey, distracted, politically lazy people.We’ve allowed the maxim of absoltue power to be absolutly corrupt to spring up in our midst. Shame on us! Now we must take back, at I don’t know what peril, that which we have lost; if not for our sake but our childrens and generations to come. If we fail I believe a darkage of inhumanity will manifest itself like never before and may never end until the biosphere collapses and takes civilization down.Such is the nature of the myopic system(modern capitalism) that has grown all powerfull in the 20th and 21st centuries So we’ve got some work ahead of us; pitter patter lets get at ‘er.

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By RayLan, December 16, 2011 at 4:18 pm Link to this comment

Due process went the way of habeas corpus in the Patriot Act, a extension of which Obama dutifully signed.

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By Foucauldian, December 16, 2011 at 3:18 pm Link to this comment

Good post, CJ.

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, December 16, 2011 at 3:03 pm Link to this comment

If anyone cares to see what we are up against on these message boards, take a look at the video I posted earlier today… for many are what you call out drbhelthi.

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By drbhelthi, December 16, 2011 at 2:55 pm Link to this comment

@Lafayette
“Dense, dense, dense.
Get help.”

No truthdigger requires help to see thru your smoke and mirrors.
As several have indicated.

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By thejkinz, December 16, 2011 at 2:48 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It’s reported that the hacker group Anonymous is
seeking out and exposing the creators of this bill.
scope this:


http://thejkinz.com/2011/12/internet-censorship/

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By Lafayette, December 16, 2011 at 2:43 pm Link to this comment

Researchers estimate only when they have no solid data on which to base an opinion, and are under pressure to render a “scientific sounding” statement. 

Dense, dense, dense.

Get help.

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By CJ, December 16, 2011 at 2:34 pm Link to this comment

We might have a right to expect Obama to do the right thing, but I can’t recall
when he did. If so, it was regarding something minor.

(I’ll assume Scheer uses the term, “communists,” with irony. There is no
communism in China of which I’m aware, and I don’t think there ever was.
There’s only been tyranny founded in a false reading of Marx by persons with
the mediocre minds of the typically bureaucratic. Does power emanate from
banality?)

Clearly, Congress is terrified of the American populace. Rightly so, and which is
what happens when one allows oneself to be purchased. The general idea is the
security of the one percent, nothing more, and no matter the pretty presidential
patter concerning the security of American people.

As Chomsky says about the “international community” consisting of the U.S.
and any who agree with the U.S., the “American people” consist of Wall Street in
collusion with the most every corporation, most especially with the defense
industry. All of whom combined own Congress and the President (and the Court
too most of the time—all three branches).

It takes some kind of elaborate network of defense to ensure and maintain
power under those circumstances—circumstances whereby most of the
population is excluded, or “excepted,” which would be the only kind of
American exceptionalism I understand as remotely meaningful. Us, we’re
excepted, the government long ago having taken leave of we the people in
favor of themselves and their backers as the American people.

No reason to keep beating a dead horse. The deal’s done and there’ll be more.

Meanwhile, Obama has finally acknowledged America as empire in what was,
perhaps, one of the most absurd statements ever made by an American
president.

In brief he noted that we only invade—unlike previous empires—for reasons of
doing good and not for territory or resources. SAY WHAT, MR. PRESIDENT?

Has the man taken leave of his senses altogether? Who the hell is he trying to
kid? Even as no fan of Mr. Obama, that claim blindsided me, though it shouldn’t
have.

He and most of the rest behind the beltway curtain actually believe such drivel.
Apparently, not only does power corrupt, it also stupefies.

We’re now out of Iraq for the third time, each time leaving a bloody mess. Not
that that’s about to end, as indeed it might get bloodier, AND even more
expensive with contractors paid in the six figures left behind to…wait for
it…protect, blah, blah, blah.

Which brings us back to the topic at hand. There was NEVER going to be a
peace dividend. And, as kicker, the idea of thought police is no longer simply a
crazy idea. Orwell’s been squared.

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By heterochromatic, December 16, 2011 at 2:32 pm Link to this comment

MGB,
This is flatly unconstitutional!  It cannot be
law.`````


not only is the damned thing Constitutional, but it’s
been done before.

IN Pennsylvania, in JUly 1863 thousands of American
citizens were captured and imprisoned by the US
military and held without trial at Fort Delaware

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By heterochromatic, December 16, 2011 at 2:31 pm Link to this comment

MGB,
This is flatly unconstitutional!  It cannot be
law.`````


not only is the damned thing Constitutional, but it’s
been done before.

IN Pennsylvania, in JUly 1863 thousands of American
citizens were captured and imprisoned ny the US
military and held without trial at Fort Delaware

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, December 16, 2011 at 2:23 pm Link to this comment

Amerika has been brought to her knees, by design and according to plan….

Whenever a middle class / merchant class of any republic / any country resembling democratic systems becomes too influential, too smart and too unified to challenge the hegemony and status of control… well, they get slapped back into a lower class status by, as we have seen, financial, economic and political means.

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By Foucauldian, December 16, 2011 at 1:24 pm Link to this comment

Of course.  But the government ought to be afraid of
its own people, and that fear is justly deserved.

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By gerard, December 16, 2011 at 1:17 pm Link to this comment

Scheer opens with the influence on Congress of “the Gods of War”.  I would like to suggest that it’s more likely the Gods of Fear that are “terrorizing us.  This changes the emphasis to basics:  The government is now afraid of its own people.

The post 9/11 anti-foreign terrorism propaganda required constant reiterations of fear not only to help spawn two ruinous wars, but now has morphed into chronic, self-created fear of ourselves, our own people, potential domestic “terrorists” to serve as Public Enemy Number 1, thus replacing AlQaeda et al with the possibility of a permanent reason to hire tens of thousands of “security personnel” to watch people who watch people who watch etc. etc. ad infinitum. The primary purpose of this spooky, self-blinding nightmare is “eternal vigilance” which turns out to be not “the price of liberty” but the self-perpetuating “cost of doing business” in the military-industrial complex.

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By steve pesce, December 16, 2011 at 12:57 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Great article.  The attack on our rights is shocking.  But I think the bigger issue is the attack on our jobs.  Outsourcing is the biggest issue right now after money in politics, in my opinion. 

This whole notion out there that a global free market will make our lives better by creating some form of utopian economy.  But actually, I think we’ve already seen that this is just a ploy by multinational corporations and international bankers to avoid regulation, taxation, and paying a living wage to employees.  BY THE WAY—There’s nothing wrong with making money.  There’s nothing even wrong with obscene profits and bonuses.  What’s wrong is driving the wages and benefits and environmental standards in the United States down to the level third world countries by outsourcing jobs and extracting capital. 

The real answer is alarmingly simple. The only reason economists haven’t come up with it is that they’re all working for industry.  And Wall Street doesn’t like anything that upsets the short term profits in their trillion dollar casino.  Here’s the answer:  If you want to sell a product in a particular country, you have to manufacture it there with their workers.  That’s a free market. 

A Chinese company wants to sell a product to the US market.  Sure thing.  Come build a factory (or lease a factory) in the United States and go to work.  Your factory will be subject to all the wage rules, regulations, taxes, and environmental standards of your host nation.  And what you make here, gets sold here.  If a US corporation wants to sell products to China, same deal.  Build or lease a factory in China, hire Chinese workers, abide by their rules, laws, and standards, and have at it.  It’s a modified free market and a vision of Globalism that isn’t going to destroy the US middle class, which is the reason we’re a great country in case the .1% haven’t noticed.

Tell me that’s wrong?  It’s not.  It’s the fix.

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By drbhelthi, December 16, 2011 at 12:21 pm Link to this comment

@Lafayette
“I can, here. Excerpt:  ´The researchers estimated´ - - “

“Estimated” ?  Genuine researchers rarely make such statements.  Researchers estimate only when they have no solid data on which to base an opinion, and are under pressure to render a “scientific sounding” statement. 
My Ph.D. is a research Ph.D.  Obviously, yours is not. Or, else you have forgotten
a bit much during your life in France.

Well fellow, where is the data?

After sixteen years as clinical director and administrative director in drug
rehabilitation programs, I have a bit of practical experience in the area to draw
from.  People who use cannabis products do not fall in the same category as
habitual overusers of alcoholic beverages. 

Nor is it possible to “abuse” either alcohol, cocaine or any other drug.  Rather, one
abuses ones body with these drugs, all statin drugs, the vast majority of prescription drugs and injections of animal tissue and germs that are misclassified as “vaccines”. 

Cannabis is not a drug.  Cannabis is a natural herb, with marvelous healing properties.  Which is why pharma and the Feds declared it to be illegal.  Once whiskey was legalized, the “Feds” needed a scapegoat to switch revenuer agents onto.  In order to continue the jobs of revenuer agents, provide physicians with an increase in patients, and increase pharmacy profits, the healing activity of cannabis was interrupted by John D. Rockefeller.  He once stated, “We will elevate the status of the medical doctor to a par with God, and in some cases, even higher.” 

The world continues to suffer the results of John D. Rockefeller´s activities, and his clan. 
Oily commerce and allopathic medicine are two major areas.

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By Foucauldian, December 16, 2011 at 12:14 pm Link to this comment

Just in case, here is a pro forma petition ready for
your signature from change.org:

http://tinyurl.com/6venv2t

Personally, I think it’s a wasted effort, plus it may
get you landed in Gitmo for being a dissident; but
you’re willing to brave or still entertain any hopes
concerning the future of this long-fallen Republic,
here it is.

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By Foucauldian, December 16, 2011 at 10:38 am Link to this comment

Always had reservations about the guy, for I’m not a
conspiracy theorist.  Still, his take on NDAA was on
target.

And of course, it’s all show business, just like with
Limbaugh. 

Welcome to America, 21st century.

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, December 16, 2011 at 10:28 am Link to this comment

Foucauldian, regarding anything Alex Jones has to say:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhOKXT7D6oc&feature=related

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By Foucauldian, December 16, 2011 at 10:11 am Link to this comment

You should look at this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCDTXoFNudo

An addendum to your link.

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By felicity, December 16, 2011 at 9:57 am Link to this comment

Steve J - Indeed.  The Department of Defense was
originally called the War Department.  Apparently when
we began our imperial take-over of the rest of the
world, we found it necessary to ‘explain’ to our
unfortunate targets that it was all in the name of
Defense.  Department of Offense anyone?

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, December 16, 2011 at 9:52 am Link to this comment

Cheers, Foucauldian. 

I’ve been called a troll by some instigators / obfuscates on here… yet taking a look at everything I’ve posted would render a different judgment.

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By Foucauldian, December 16, 2011 at 9:49 am Link to this comment

Great link, Napolean,

Maybe this will shut some of ‘em up for a while, but
I doubt it.  Interestingly, they all hide behind
their handle, no URL to verify their true identity.

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, December 16, 2011 at 9:09 am Link to this comment

That was funny christian96, thanks for sharing.

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By christian96, December 16, 2011 at 9:01 am Link to this comment

Don’t get emotionally upset about the corruption
in Washington.  I can assure you it is only going
to get much worse before it gets better.  Relax
and enjoy a little holiday humor:

A third grade teacher was asking her students what they did for Christmas.  Johnny said, “My brothers and sisters and I get
up early Christmas morning to open our presents and play with our toys.”  After several other students told stories about getting toys for Christmas the teacher didn’t want Abraham Coen to feel bad so she ask, “What does your family do on Christmas Abraham?”
Abraham said, “Well, we get up early, pile into father’s Mercedes, drive down to his toy store, stand around holding hands looking
at the empty shelves, and sing, “What a friend we have in Jesus.”

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By jones, December 16, 2011 at 8:54 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The financial crisis was *on purpose*

How are people supposed to worry about civil liberties when the only thing the news talks about is jobs?

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By Lafayette, December 16, 2011 at 8:25 am Link to this comment

HEALING

RD: I do understand the almost impossible task presented to those whose blind loyalty refuses to see truth and continues an attempt, as this one so obviously does, to sidetrack the issues and point the blame from our fearful leader.

We are accused of “blind loyalty” are we?

And you are just mouthing the platitudes of the Looney Left who, disgusted with their lot, despondent with life, need a punching bag to expend their pent-up frustration.

American’s have a right to be indignant. But they are wrong to blame the guy in the White House, just because he happened to be there after thirty years of incompetent leadership. Nonetheless, in just four short years, we expected him to clean up all the shit, but he didn’t.

Yep, let us down, he did - him too, the deadbeat.

But we must blame someone, mustn’t we? However, never ourselves - right? After all, we voted for these yokels and THEY let us down!

Any doctor will tell you: A patient cannot be healed until they understand how sick they are.

”We have met the enemy and he is us” Pogo by Walt Kelly.

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By Lafayette, December 16, 2011 at 7:40 am Link to this comment

drb: Where are the stats on the numbers of Americans killed by use of marijuana?  I can not find any.

I can, here. Excerpt: 

The researchers estimated that at least 2.5 percent of the 10,748 fatal (car) crashes studied were directly caused by the use of marijuana.

I suspect, but cannot corroborate, that alcohol is by far the main (non-criminal) killer in the US, short term. Long-term, it is quite likely obesity, see resulting illnesses here. For obesity mortality stats, go here.

US Numero Uno for obesity related deaths! And Number 2 for alcohol-liver-disease, see here.

YES!!!! Go Amerika!!!!

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By Foucauldian, December 16, 2011 at 7:30 am Link to this comment

Less loony than your labyrinthine exegeses.

And I’m not even a Leftist.

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By Foucauldian, December 16, 2011 at 7:25 am Link to this comment

“We may live in a plutocracy, but it is not yet a
police state. Live a year in North Korea to
understand the difference”  Lafayette

I was under the impression that America was
supposed to be the Great Experiment.  Nowadays,
however, it’s become fashionable to highlight her
greatness by comparing it to the most rogue of
rogue states.

I’m certain somebody had said it once that one of
the first signs of a nation’s decline, moral or
otherwise, is the lowering of standards.

Through his twisted logic, Lafayette demonstrates
the wisdom of this observation.

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By Lafayette, December 16, 2011 at 7:08 am Link to this comment

Fauxcul: Indeed, especially since US is the greatest perpetrator.

Thanks for our daily dose of Looney Left commentary.

Bravo! Put on your thinking cap for that one?

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By EmileZ, December 16, 2011 at 7:03 am Link to this comment

@ Lafayette

Watermelon In Easter Hay - Zappa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TE6GgxoJN_o

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By Foucauldian, December 16, 2011 at 6:56 am Link to this comment

“Terrorism is a very serious crime – that we all
know.”  Lafayette

Indeed, especially since US is the greatest
perpetrator.

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By Lafayette, December 16, 2011 at 6:28 am Link to this comment

WHAT HATH ROTH WROTE

Here is an excerpt from the article quoting Roth :

The far-reaching detainee provisions would codify indefinite detention without trial into US law for the first time since the McCarthy era when Congress in 1950 overrode the veto of then-President Harry Truman and passed the Internal Security Act. The bill would also bar the transfer of detainees currently held at Guantanamo into the US for any reason, including for trial. In addition, it would extend restrictions, imposed last year, on the transfer of detainees from Guantanamo to home or third countries – even those cleared for release by the administration.

Terrorism is a very serious crime – that we all know. It is vicious, surreptitious and lethal.  And when carried out under the perverted notion of “warring against the US”, it is done in a manner that subverts even the principles of the Geneva Conventions the treaties of which establish the standards of international law for the humanitarian treatment of combatants.

If the aggressor would be an American citizen on American soil, then the rule of habeus corpus could be invoked before an American judge. The detainee would obviously have the right to a lawyer.

Article 27 of the Convention states this: 

Protected persons are entitled, in all circumstances, to respect for their persons, their honour, their family rights, their religious convictions and practices, and their manners and customs. They shall, at all times, be humanely treated, and shall be protected, especially against all acts of violence or threats thereof and against insults and public curiosity. Women shall be especially protected against any attack on their honour, in particular against rape, enforced prostitution, or any form of indecent assault. Without prejudice to the provisions relating to their state of health, age and sex, all protected persons shall be treated with the same consideration by the Party to the conflict in whose power they are, without any adverse distinction based, in particular, on race, religion or political opinion. However, the Parties to the conflict may take such measures of control and security in regard to protected persons as may be necessary as a result of the war

Is the treatment of detainees in Gitmo contrary to the Convention’s article 27? No, I don’t think so. But I do not really know. What we do know is that the detainees are allowed to practice their religion.

If the detainee is on foreign soil and not found on American soil, then obviously that person is in a legal no-mans-land. There is no court of law to which the person could make an appeal.  The detainees in Guantanamo are in just such a predicament.

Roth is presuming that such detainees have a “right to a fair trial under law”. There is no “law” that is applicable. And there is no judge in the US that can force a detainee to be rendered from a foreign place that has no extradition treaty with the US.

How any of this harms the individual rights of Americans and thus perpetuates the “police state” is difficult to perceive. Someone open my eyes.

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drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, December 16, 2011 at 5:30 am Link to this comment

@ Lafayette                                                                                            
“Btw, yes, it is high-time American legalized marijuana smoking. Far more people
are killed due to excessive consumption of alcohol ... “

“Mindless rhetoric” ?                                                                         
Where are the stats on the numbers of Americans killed by use of marijuana?  I can
not find any.  I can find information on health improvement, however.

“We may live in a plutocracy, but it is not yet a police state. Live a year in North
Korea to understand the difference ...”

Agreed.  The US is not a police state.                                                         
It is only in the process of nazification.  The NDAA 2011 (illegal detention bill) is
needed to further the process.  Nor are the FEMA installations fully staffed.  Nor have
the 30,000 snitches been hired and placed in position in all fifty states of the US. 
They will support the CIA/administration “line of thought” and report resistive persons
and groups to Homeland Security.  For follow-up action.

There is still a way to go before 1. DDR status is attained, subsequently 2. nazification
with the FEMA installations and population reduction.  However, the WWII
NAZI/Israeli clan are making consistent progress.  And, Lafayette deserves credit for
occasional assistance to the “party line” of the nazification process. 
http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=8252175042329977626#

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By Haudenosaun, December 16, 2011 at 5:02 am Link to this comment

Faust incarnate.

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Lafayette's avatar

By Lafayette, December 16, 2011 at 4:16 am Link to this comment

WHAT POLICE STATE?

From the NYT, the provisions of the bill that really matter as regards a (reputed) Orwellian “police state”:

The bill that emerged from the conference committee on Tuesday dropped a section from the House version that would have banned using civilian courts to prosecute Qaeda suspects. It also dropped a House-written provision enacting a new authorization to use military force against Al Qaeda and its allies.

But the bill includes a narrower provision, drafted by the Senate, authorizing the government to detain, without trial, suspected members of Al Qaeda or its allies — or those who “substantially supported” them — bolstering the authorization it enacted a decade ago against the perpetrators of the Sept. 11 attacks.

Another section would require officials to hold non-citizens suspected of being Qaeda operatives in military custody. The administration had focused its objections on that section, but the panel expanded the executive branch’s ability to make exceptions.

It also added language declaring that the new law would not restrict the existing authority of the Federal Bureau of Investigation in terrorism matters. Still, the bureau’s director, Robert S. Mueller III, testified on Wednesday that he remained concerned that it would introduce “uncertainty” about what should happen at the time of an arrest.

Another provision would require the attorney general to consult with military and intelligence agencies before charging a terrorism suspect in civilian court.

The bill also would require the defense secretary to certify, before transferring any Qaeda-related detainee to another country, that it has met certain security conditions — expanding a rule that currently applies only to prisoners at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. But the bill would also relax the certification requirements, which the Pentagon has said are too onerous to meet.

Now, please, I’d like to see how the above enhances our “police state”. Be specific ... or don’t bother with the mindless rhetoric.

Frankly, I don’t see much that “promotes” a police-state and wont accept that as the intent of the bill’s provisions. It is senseless to make a distinction between home-grown terrorism and that which is not Made-in-the-USA. In either case, we want it preempted on American soil before harm is done.

And if the military has the means to do so, then it should be allowed to do so. The Looney Left is barking up the wrong tree if it thinks that the drones will be used to sniff out their marijuana plants growing in the garage.

POST SCRIPTUM

Btw, yes, it is high-time American legalized marijuana smoking. Far more people are killed due to excessive consumption of alcohol ...

We may live in a plutocracy, but it is not yet a police state. Live a year in North Korea to understand the difference ...

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By EmileZ, December 16, 2011 at 4:10 am Link to this comment

@ ardee

The Grand Wazoo - Zappa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOz0dyRScWc&feature=related

Keep blowing your horn for the cause of righteousness and good sense comrade.

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By do over, December 16, 2011 at 4:08 am Link to this comment

First they mock you, then they demonize you, then they dehumanize you, then they kill you.

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