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The Villain Occupy Wall Street Has Been Waiting For

Posted on Nov 17, 2011
AP / Julia Xanthos

New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, seen here in 2008.

By Robert Scheer

In the pantheon of billionaires without shame, Michael Bloomberg, the Wall Street banker-turned-business-press-lord-turned-mayor, is now secure at the top. What is so offensive is that someone who abetted Wall Street greed, and benefited as much as anyone from it, has no compunction about ruthlessly repressing those who dare exercise their constitutional “right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances” that he helped to create.

You would think that a former partner at the investment bank Solomon Brothers, which originated mortgage-backed securities, a man who then partnered with Merrill Lynch in the high-speed computerized trading that has led to so much financial manipulation, would have some sense of his own culpability. Or at least that someone whose Wall Street career left him with a net worth of $19.5 billion would grasp the deep irony of his being the instrument for smashing Occupy Wall Street, the internationally acknowledged symbol of opposition to corporate avarice.

But only in America is the arrogance of the superrich so perfectly concealed by the pretense of democracy that the 12th richest man in the nation can suppress dissent against corporate rapacity and expect his brutal actions to be viewed not as a means of preserving his own class privilege but as bureaucratically necessary to providing sanitary streets.

Even before he ordered the smashing of dissent by citizens peacefully assembled, Bloomberg denigrated their heartfelt message: “It’s fun and it’s cathartic,” he said of those huddled against the cold in a makeshift encampment, “... it’s entertaining to go and blame people. ... It was not the banks that created the mortgage crisis. It was, plain and simple, Congress who forced everybody to go and give mortgages to people who were on the cusp.”

It is mind-boggling that Bloomberg still hypes the canard that the banks were forced to reap enormous profits from toxic securities. It is an embarrassing, dishonest position when the record of banker fraud in creating the housing bubble is so well documented in Securities and Exchange Commission lawsuits. Is Bloomberg unaware that the major banks have agreed to pay hefty fines in a meager compensation for their schemes? That he blames the victims of the securitization swindles and then orders the arrest of those who dare speak the truth is a tribute to his belief in the enduring power of the big lie.

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If the Bloomberg news service, the stock market idolizer owned by the mayor, had been anything more than an enabler this past decade of Wall Street excess, nay criminality, it’s possible we would not be experiencing the current crisis. If this leading financial news outlet had performed the minimum of journalistic due diligence on unregulated credit default swaps, collateralized debt obligations and the other swindles marketed with an abandon informed by deep deceit and the financial industry’s pervasive corruption, the world economy may not now be in such terrible shape. 

Yet the man whose personal wealth increased by $4.5 billion the first year of this meltdown when many Americans were losing their life savings now dares shift blame away from himself and others at the center of economic power to the most vulnerable among us. Instead of blaming the Wall Street lobbyists who got the laws changed so that they could securitize people’s home mortgages, no matter how unsound those mortgages were by design, he blames the folks suckered into accepting the banks’ phony offerings. “Blame the opium addict and not the pusher” is the excuse for the bankers who turned the lure of easy credit into a housing bubble that, when it inevitably exploded, impoverished the world but left the bailed-out Wall Street hustlers richer than ever.

“There’s something wrong with a kid who steals a bike going to jail and someone who steals millions paying a fine,” as former New York City Mayor Ed Koch put it in challenging Bloomberg’s blame-the-victims copout. The fines to which Koch referred represent a small percentage of the bankers’ ill-gotten gains, and, of course, as opposed to the kid who steals a bike, none of the bankers fined by the SEC has even been threatened with jail time. “What do you think they got fined for—schmutz on the sidewalk?” Koch asked. “They got fined because they abused their relationship with their clientele. And I want to see somebody—I want to see one of them, of a major corporation, punished criminally.”

Instead, the people led away in handcuffs are not the bankers who perpetuated the fraud of turning homes into the junk of toxic mortgages, which should be judged as criminal, but decent people who have committed only the “crime” of speaking truth to power.

They Know Everything About You -- A new book by Truthdig Editor Robert Scheer. Order an autographed copy now!


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IMax's avatar

By IMax, November 29, 2011 at 8:00 am Link to this comment

“Perhaps my scratching the surface of the term and its usefulness to the 1% will make others post in more depth.”

-

Perhaps ardee-full-of-self-pity-and-hate could stop berating all who disagree with him and explain how Oprah Winfrey, clearly part of the 1%, has subjugated him.

Credit/debt.

Here we have an illustration of one problem less, yet again, any offer of a solution. I’m tired of such whining and wallowing in pity and victimization. I’m tired of ardee types who’s main purpose here is to display his own sense of brilliance while, in reality, offering nothing of substance.

I offer two fundamental solutions to start: a. Binding legislation which regulates predatory lending practices which b. NEVER ignores ardee’s individual responsibility to make wise decisions on his personal debt.

I think these are two solid solutions to build on. Practical, doable, and wise.

-

My Father, a life-long progressive thinker and voting democrat, taught me a valuable lesson when I was 15. “It doesn’t matter how good a deal you may think you’re getting, if you don’t have the money you can’t afford it”.

It took my own overspending via credit cards in my early 20’s to fully grasp what my Father had shared with me. I learned my lesson in my 20’s and remain largely debt free in my 50’s. Has it been easy? No. Did it take a dedication to a solid principal handed down from my Father? Yes.

I am no slave to CitiBank and I love my life’s work. Each a product of my own decisions. I own, and own up to, my decisions.

-

Full disclosure.

Mine is a common story. That is to say; there’s little extraordinary about my position. In a very real sense I represent the thinking of the ‘99’.

I was raised in a small home. My Father retired from our local electric utility and my Mother from a dispatchers position of the in-house Security Dept. of a local hospital.

I struggled in my chosen field throughout my 20’s and 30’s. I began making real gains in my 40’s. Now in my 50’s I am “comfortable” (some would say wealthy). Do I resent the bulk of folks here on Truthdig who insist my life’s work and decisions amounts to a testament of my evil ways? That my life’s decisions have “given me” what I do not deserve? Do I resent being told that I must, if I am compassionate and progressive, give what I have saved (no credit cards) to a corrupt bunch in my State House and the U.S. Congress so that THEY may decide how best to “spread my wealth”?

I give nearly 15% of my income to charities I happen to feel passionately about. I have aided dozens of friends and family. I have rarely said no anyone with a solid plan to help their own family. If I have it I will give it.

Do I consider myself lucky? You bet I do. Even blessed. Do I resent all who say I am evil and must have hurt or stepped on others to gain what I have worked for? YOU BET I DO!

I am a voting democrat. I am socially liberal. I alone will decide what becomes of my life’s decisions. I also happen to represent a great many more of the majority than do the 35 and under (82% Caucasian - 1.8% black), crowd in zuccotti park.

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By ardee, November 29, 2011 at 6:04 am Link to this comment

Surely Shenonymous’ cry for definitions is curious to say the least. Is there anyone present who cannot speak, at least in part, to what is meant by economic slavery and how useful a tool it is in subjugating the masses?

Here is one of a panoply of definitions possible:

Economic Slavery is a condition that a person finds themselves in when the totality of their wages only allows them to pay the interest payments on their accumulated debt.

I might further elucidate that it is a weapon of capitalism.


Is She, or anyone for that matter, unaware of massive credit card debt that helps tie folks to a job they hate? Or how useful high health care costs can be in doing the same? Or that huge debt loads at State and Federal levels allow cuts to services that should be manditory and further make pawns of our citizens while the so-called 1% cash in on the high interest on the debt they own?

Perhaps this will spark a conversation on the subject, perhaps that is what Shenonymous wishes. Perhaps my scratching the surface of the term and its usefulness to the 1% will make others post in more depth.

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, November 29, 2011 at 5:18 am Link to this comment

Cliff Carson, - “We need a change.”

-

Yes, but at what cost?

You wrote that, sooner or later, the 1% will get the message or, if not, they will cease to exist. What, specifically, are you suggesting? A French style revolution? A Nate Turner uprising against Michael Jordan and Koch Industries?

Can you be specific?

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Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, November 28, 2011 at 11:35 pm Link to this comment

If there is such a thing as economic slavery, then there must be
arguments that give a case for it,  And if this can be shown, then
we need, just as human slavery had, abolitionists to cut the fetters
of economic bondage.  To do that, however, we need a clear picture
of what those chains are so that when we break them or abolish them,
they are actually the things that need cut. 

It is said that the national debt is part of that economic slavery. 
But the term 10 trillion dollars in debt is fuzzy and not enough is
known about it or about all the consequences that surround it in three
dimensions in order to start thinking rationally about it, not only a
particular ideological view of it.  So I would like to read arguments
for the existence of economic slavery.

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By heterochromatic, November 28, 2011 at 9:36 pm Link to this comment

Cliff—what’s “economic slavery”? are you not able to open your own business or
work with anyone that we wish to work for and who wants whatever work you’re
able to do well?

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By Cliff Carson, November 28, 2011 at 9:25 pm Link to this comment

IMAX

Remember the opening scene in “Gone With The Wind”?

As the quitting bell is being rung, one of the Field Hands hollers “Quitting Time”.

Then the Boss Slave challenges the field hand that He, the Boss Slave, says when its quitting time, whereupon he yells “Quittin Time” and all the slaves go to their quarters.

Either we are all free or we or not all free.  Economic Slavery is just another form of slavery.

We need a change.

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, November 28, 2011 at 5:59 pm Link to this comment

Cliff Carson, - “Sooner or later the 1% will get the message, or if not they will cease to exist.”

-

Your bottom line, yes?

I can say that I agree with nearly everything you’ve written about the problems. We do see things differently in the ways to correcting these varied and complicated problems.

I believe it’s impossible to achieve your goals by concentrating so heavily on the wealthiest 1% of Americans. The wealthiest 3 million Americans are not, in my opinion, the problem. Nor do I see the wealthiest 3 million Americans as “pulling the strings”. I believe the real power structures are, maybe, the wealthiest 1% of the wealthiest 1%. - We win nothing by making demons of the wealthiest 3 million Americans. - Not to mention that most Americans will never support it!

But it doesn’t end there, either. This is a global system with global income disparity problems. If what many here seek is achieved, ending capitalism, the entire system must, necessarily, crash. Not merely the American financial system. If that happens, well, God help everyone.

If the entire free market system simply crashes billions of people, all over the globe, will suffer in ways humans have not seen in thousands of years. I believe we absolutely must seek a very different solution.

We should look at what the Tea Movement has been able to accomplish in an astonishingly short time frame. A small minority of involved and dedicated Americans are, today, effecting legislation in nearly every State and both Houses of the U.S. Congress. It is real, it is tangible, and it’s doable.

We also need to stop pretending Occupy represents 99% of Americans. Not a single fact, poll, attitude or issue indicates this to be true. The louder we shout 99% the harder 50%+ will vehemently resist. - As you point out, just reading these threads shows us the divide on solutions to many problems. And TruthDig is largely a ‘progressive’ crowd.

-

By changing (Occupying) politics in School Boards, County Seats, and State Houses we can legislate real and lasting change - minus the global homelessness and starvation Chris Hedges and occupywallstreet.org will create. Unfortunately what I suggest is not sexy enough for most here and, well, if voter registration records are correct most here still cannot be bothered to simply vote. You want us to come together and create and govern an entirely new system of governance.

I’m not seeing events unfolding the way you may be imagining.

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Anarcissie's avatar

By Anarcissie, November 28, 2011 at 2:58 pm Link to this comment

IMax, November 28 at 12:14 pm:

Anarcissie, — “I am not feigning ignorance”

I fully understand how you feel. I felt the same when you had me writing of OWS plotters.

My mistake then.  I thought from your messages about Hedges, and your list of ‘wealthy’ sponsors of OWS, that you were trying to construct some theory of secret support for OWS from ‘wealthy’, powerful individuals, who might be designated as ‘plotters’ in a fit of humorously ironic hyperbole.  Others have come up with such theories.  But if the references to Hedges and the others are merely aimless noodling, there is nothing to argue with, and there is no point to asking you what you mean.

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By Cliff Carson, November 28, 2011 at 1:24 pm Link to this comment

Response to IMax, November 27 at 8:39 pm

I wrote Scheer because he wrote this article.

I agree with your following statement:

“I believe corporations, local, state and federal government, along with the media need to be held to account.”

But as I have said previously, the OWS people are the ones taking the beating from the Cops and being smeared by the supporters of the 1%.  Definitely those you mentioned need to be brought to account.

Before OWS who was doing this?  Certainly there were those who were crying out for an end to the Political Party corruption and Governmental denial of the 99% ( think ALEC).

You state:

“That is why I believe it’s time for the Occupy protests we’re seeing around the country morph into a real movement and Occupy the Congress.”

IMAX, What Political Party will join the Crusade?  Party Loyalists, when presented with their Party’s line that the “other” Party is the fault, will line up and drink the Kool-Aid of the 1% and their minions, who feed the fire until it sinks into a finger pointing exercise between the two factions of the 99%.  Just read this thread.

What the people (the 99%) need to do is shun their Political Party from this day on, forever.  And get about the task of forming a Coalition Party of Independents.

As to tearing down the current system, it must be done, but as it is torn down the 99% must be stepping into the void at every change.  Once the 99% runs the Country, it must remain vigilant and every transgression must be immediately dealt with to demonstrate to the would be thieves that there is a harsh price to pay for criminal activity.

Sooner or later the 1% will get the message, or if not they will cease to exist.

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, November 28, 2011 at 1:14 pm Link to this comment

Anarcissie, — “I am not feigning ignorance”

I fully understand how you feel. I felt the same when you had me writing of OWS plotters.

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Anarcissie's avatar

By Anarcissie, November 28, 2011 at 12:46 pm Link to this comment

iMax—I am not feigning ignorance when I say that I have no idea what you’re talking about, or what you’re trying to prove.

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, November 28, 2011 at 12:44 pm Link to this comment

heterochromatic,


I think, for now, I’ll keep making Hedges an issue. I believe it’s important and, well, I have every right.

Get over it.

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By heterochromatic, November 28, 2011 at 11:53 am Link to this comment

Hedges isn’t genuine about anything, IMax. he’s a froth-flecked advocate…and he
has a right to be that.

get over it.

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, November 28, 2011 at 10:26 am Link to this comment

Anarcissie,

Well, for one, it proves you enjoy feigning ignorance when it meets your needs, yes? It further proves you only imagined that I was naming plotters. Lastly, it goes a long way toward illustrating that Mr. Hedges, as I have said, is less than genuine on the subject of OWS.

This Is What A Revolution Looks Like.” - Chris Hedges.

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Anarcissie's avatar

By Anarcissie, November 28, 2011 at 9:39 am Link to this comment

IMax, November 28 at 8:14 am:

‘Anarcissie, - “I don’t know what it’s supposed to prove, though.”

In and of itself? Not much.

You quietly tiptoed past Hedges being a part of AdBusters (wallstreet.org) from its inception. With that knowledge, along with the identical rhetoric and identical goals, things come more into relief.

- “Our aim is to topple existing power structures and forge a major shift in the way we live our lives in the 21st Century.”

- Tell me that’s not Chris Hedges.

What if it is?  I’m not getting what the big revelation is supposed to be.  The people who started OWS are anarchists and maybe some other varieties of radical leftist.  Everyone who cares to know, knows that—it’s hardly a secret.  What is that supposed to prove?

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, November 28, 2011 at 9:14 am Link to this comment

Anarcissie, - “I don’t know what it’s supposed to prove, though.”

-

In and of itself? Not much.

You quietly tiptoed past Hedges being a part of AdBusters (wallstreet.org) from its inception. With that knowledge, along with the identical rhetoric and identical goals, things come more into relief.

- “Our aim is to topple existing power structures and forge a major shift in the way we live our lives in the 21st Century.”

- Tell me that’s not Chris Hedges.

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Anarcissie's avatar

By Anarcissie, November 28, 2011 at 8:20 am Link to this comment

IMax, November 27 at 5:32 pm:

‘... The most casual reader must admit that a great many aspects of Occupy, according to Mr. Hedges, is nearly identical to what he has called for for several years. That is the near total dismantling of the corporate/wealth class system. ...’

I don’t think this is news to anyone who has been paying such attention to OWS and related events as the media will permit.  I don’t know what it’s supposed to prove, though.

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, November 27, 2011 at 9:39 pm Link to this comment

Cliff Carson,

You quote me quoting Chris Hedges but ask me about Scheer. That leaves me confused.

I do not agree with Hedges in his advocacy of a revolution that will tear down the global capitalist system. I believe that approach will likely cause billions of people all over the globe to suffer in unimaginable ways. More suffering, I believe, than the world has witnessed in thousands of years.

I believe corporations, local, state and federal government, along with the media need to be held to account. That is why I believe it’s time for the Occupy protests we’re seeing around the country morph into a real movement and Occupy the Congress.

Report this

By Cliff Carson, November 27, 2011 at 8:00 pm Link to this comment

IMax, November 27 at 5:32 pm

Said:

“The most casual reader must admit that a great many aspects of Occupy, according to Mr. Hedges, is nearly identical to what he has called for for several years. That is the near total dismantling of the corporate/wealth class system.”

IMAX, what is your position?

1.  Do you agree with Scheer and therefore the OWS?
2.  Do you think the present system is AOK?

If your answer to 1.  is Yes, then what is your specific complaint?

If your answer to 1.  is No, then what is your remedy for the OWS complaints or if you don’t know what their complaint is:  I see it as a rebellion against the trend toward Corporate rule and the incestuous relationship between the 1% and the U S Government.  Please comment on that.

If your answer to 2.  is Yes then please explain why.

If your answer to 2.  is No then explain what differently from the OWS movement you would do to correct the imbalance and end the criminality.

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, November 27, 2011 at 6:32 pm Link to this comment

Anarcissie,
-

I name no “plotters”. You’ve only imagined plotters in my narrative.

By and large the people I name scarcely hide their opinions and intentions. I simply believe Hedges, as a journalist, fails to be transparent with his seeding of OWS. I find hedges, in this instance, disingenuous.

The most casual reader must admit that a great many aspects of Occupy, according to Mr. Hedges, is nearly identical to what he has called for for several years. That is the near total dismantling of the corporate/wealth class system. That his involvement with occupywallstreet.org has been integral from it’s beginnings makes his articles ever more interesting.

-

- Our aim is to topple existing power structures and and forge a major shift in the way we live our lives in the 21st Century.”

- Tell me that’s not Chris Hedges.

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, November 27, 2011 at 4:55 am Link to this comment

Armed with the knowledge that Chris Hedges aided in planning the Occupy protests it’s instructive to revisit his Nov. 15 article “This Is What Revolution Looks Like”. In the article Hedges clearly, and I dare say gleefully, outlines his knowledge of what it takes to topple governments.

Equally instructive is what Hedges does not write. He fails to make it clear that he has been so heavily involved in devising and planning ‘Occupy’ events. In other words; Hedges, by his own admittance, fully understood that by unlawfully ‘Occupying’ public and private spaces for extended periods of time local authorities would, eventually, be forced to act harshly. Hedges appears to have eagerly anticipated the events of Nov. 15.

Fully understanding his own role in unfolding events Hedges finishes his article (the day Zuccotti Park was cleared of tents and protesters) this way. “I felt this twinge of ‘euphoria’ again in my stomach this morning, this utter certainty that the impossible (toppling the U.S. system of governance) is possible, this realization that the mighty will fall.”

Hedges looked at his work and smiled.

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Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, November 26, 2011 at 6:02 pm Link to this comment

Yeah, I called Imax on Trumka on the other forum, the Scott Tucker,
When We Fight Back, but he was not forthwith coming as usual with
any verification.  What can we say about a piker?  He is a patronizing
piker?  I googled but nothing showed up that connects Trumka with
the term until 2011.

Trumka was lucky to have you egging him on.  LOL Even if he wasn’t
listening.

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Anarcissie's avatar

By Anarcissie, November 26, 2011 at 5:36 pm Link to this comment

Of the plotters you name, I know only David Graeber, and I can assure you that to all appearances he is middle-aged and middle-class.  Now, you asserted that the rest of the plotters are wealthy, so I’ve asked you to come up with their incomes and net worth, and the source of your knowledge.  Could you provide this, or is it going to be like my invisible Tea Party articles?

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Anarcissie's avatar

By Anarcissie, November 26, 2011 at 5:17 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous—Dozens, maybe hundreds of people have claimed they invented the 99% meme.  Why shouldn’t I get in on it?  Yes, we had 99ers in 2010, but iMax has discovered Mr. Trumka uttering the mystic number in 2009!  Actually, I was standing behind Trumka, whispering to him, after having hypnotized him to do my bidding: ‘99, 99, 99, 99….’

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Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, November 26, 2011 at 5:07 pm Link to this comment

Just a bit of trivia for Jeoardy contestants:

The genesis of Occupy began in 2007 at Adbusters and their
Buy Nothing Day, New York Times Opinion Pages, Andrew C. Revkin
Nov. 25, 2011
“The Ad Man Behind Occupy Wall Street, and ‘Buy Nothing Day’” 
http://tinyurl.com/764y9z3

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By heterochromatic, November 26, 2011 at 4:55 pm Link to this comment

yup, another bunch of swamp gas comparing Bloomberg to murderers and
comparing clearing OWS out of the park with acts of war.

swamp gas.

http://youtu.be/G2tNVwzdxaI

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By mrtmbrnmn, November 26, 2011 at 4:15 pm Link to this comment

robert scheer…
this fellow bernard jenkins seems to have been inspired by your piece:

http://news.jornal.us/article-5976.THE-INCREDIBLE-SHRINKING-MAYOR-AND-THE-PRESIDENT-TOO.html

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Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, November 26, 2011 at 1:50 pm Link to this comment

OUT FROM THE SHADOWS?Who’s behind the “We are the 99%”
anti-Wall Street movement??October 14, 2011?
http://tinyurl.com/bp6nalg

When did you say you invented the 99 meme to describe the
movement, Anarcissie?  Prior to April 2010?  Really?  Any
posts anywhere to show it?
See the article:  ‘99ers’ Exhaust Jobless Benefits|Alana Semuels. April 30,
2010 - Thousands are banding together to agitate for another extension.
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr/30/business/la-fi-0430-99ers-20100430

But before that, the term 99ers had its birth from the American Recovery
and Reinvestment Act passed by Congress in February 2009 when unemployed
people could receive up to 99 weeks of unemployment insurance benefits
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/99ers

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, November 26, 2011 at 10:59 am Link to this comment

Anarcissie,

I’ll try my best to keep in mind that there is no poverty or hunger in India unless India is classified as suffering ‘famine’.

Google “peach cobbler” for more information on India. wink

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, November 26, 2011 at 10:49 am Link to this comment

Anarcissie, - secret plots and conspiracies?

I can see you’re crestfallen to learn that Occupy is not the product of the young and energetic, but, rather, the well planned, well though-out, and well funded product of a small, wealthy, and influential few.

Remember: The origins of Occupy, which may not be what your imagination devised, is still a righteous issue. Only now you can wipe away the ignorance of how these protests began.

-

And, for goodness sake, stop whining like a adolescent child because I won’t do what you can do for yourself. Find your own past comments. - Just as I was able to do.

You Googled ‘99’...LOL

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Anarcissie's avatar

By Anarcissie, November 26, 2011 at 10:01 am Link to this comment

iMax—We will need the income and net worth of all those people you named to judge for ourselves how wealthy they are.  And your sources, of course.  I hope you can do better than you did with my numerous articles about the Tea Party which you can’t seem to find even a single URL for. 

Incidentally, David Graeber is not just an ‘anarchist’ but a teacher (anthro) and an author, so he may be ‘wealthy’ by your standards too—right up there with the Koch brothers and Murdoch.

Actually, it was _I_ who started the ‘99’ meme.  I should have copyrighted the number and now I could be charging royalties and suing everyone right and left.  I developed it from the ‘99er’ concept—the people whose unemployment benefits ran out after 99 weeks.  It’s probably in the Googlism list somewhere; you could look it up if you’re not too busy searching for other secret plots and conspiracies involving integers.

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By IMax, November 26, 2011 at 8:27 am Link to this comment

Anarcissie, - As for ‘99’

-

Still trying to change the subject, I see.

Trumka and the AFL-CIO began using “99” as a slogan for growing the rolls of new union membership as far back as May 2009.

What good is Googling ‘99’ without the proper context? Distraction? Ignorance? Obfuscation?

Nothing here to see folks. Move along!

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By IMax, November 26, 2011 at 8:07 am Link to this comment

Anarcissie,

Wealthy, well-to-do, those amongst the top 10% in Canada and the United States.

As you can see Occupy has been well thought-out, well organized, and well funded. Pretty much what most here once labeled ‘AstroTurf”. - I disagree.

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Anarcissie's avatar

By Anarcissie, November 26, 2011 at 7:53 am Link to this comment

As for ‘99’, I gave Googlism.com a shot:

99 is palindromic prime
99 is action research online forum toc
99 is just the beginning
99 is
99 is on hp medical’s home turf
99 is major vehicle
99 is not on your list?
99 is intended to reflect the government of
99 is a special project of the tides center
99 is continuing
99 is a milestone
99 is july 24th
99 is shaker’s second morehead scholar
99 is your online broker any good?
99 is out + briefing re past weeks + call for solidarity
99 is a
99 is ‘
99 is hack
99 is organized by ucmtf dal prossimo
99 is pleased that the
99 is stunningly rich in expression
99 is $230
99 is a big deal
99 is an
99 is your big tree a hazard?
99 is to keep planning
99 is lowest in 12 years
99 is coming
99 is coming to america
99 is fraught with humor
99 is sold
99 is canceled
99 is a propitious number for y2k
99 is sold out; us spring
99 is available
99 is the opening day for santas enchanted forest
99 is sponsored in part by
99 is a palindromic prime
99 is action research online forum
99 is just the beginning add to my subscriptions oct
99 is february 15
99 is out
99 is on hp
99 is about normal
99 is major vehicle for organizing
99 is not on your list?
99 is intended to reflect the government of canada’s progressive agenda to use the internet to improve canadians access to information on
99 is a milestone
99 is shaker’s second morehead scholar
99 is out + briefing re past weeks + call for solidarity letters
99 is coming posted 8/24/99 news palm computing
99 is going to be
99 is hacked
99 is organized by ucmtf
99 is april 24
99 is in three parts and states ...

And don’t forget 99-cent stores, 99ers, and above all Islam’s 99 names of God, which has worked its way into being ‘THE 99, the world’s first superheroes based on Islamic culture and society. Featured in monthly comic books from Teshkeel Comics….’  Muslims!  ‘Nuff said!!

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By Anarcissie, November 26, 2011 at 7:36 am Link to this comment

iMax—what do you mean here by ‘wealthy’?

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By IMax, November 26, 2011 at 7:23 am Link to this comment

I like and support that Occupy has a great many wealthy benefactors.  We know the democratic establishment, along with large Labor organizations, have lent support nearly from its inception. Is it an accident that Richard Trumka and AFL-CIO used the “99” slogan as far back as May of 2009? Is it an accident that Occupy gave voice to the very same issues as has been used by the President of the United States? Coincidence or not, I support it.

Occupy the Congress!

-

Who began OWS?

Did ‘Occupy’ find its roots, as many believe, in a small group of young American activists in Zuccotti Park?  Or did it find its roots in a highly organized and well funded group of idialogs with a plan (tea party, anyone?)?

The domain name, occupywallstreetorg, was registered 09-Jun-2011 by the following:

David Graeber - anarchist
Chris Hedges - wealthy journalist/activist/author of “This Is What Revolution Looks Like”
Matt Taibbi - wealthy author/journalist/activist/center field for Spartak Moscow
Bill McKibben - wealthy author/activist/protest organizer/Occupy message coordinator
Jim Munroe - wealthy author/activist
Douglas Rushkoff -wealthy media theorist/author
Simon Critchley - philosophy professor
Slavoj Žižek - wealthy philosopher/Marxist
Michael Hardt - author - “Empire” - “Communist Manifesto of the 21st Century.”
David Orrell - wealthy author/mathematician
Kalle Lasn - wealthy author/activist - “Culture Jam and Design Anarchy”

Occupy began by design. Highly organized and VERY WELL funded.

I support the Occupy message. That is not to say I will allow myself to be lead around by the nose like an obedient puppy.

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By Anarcissie, November 25, 2011 at 6:49 pm Link to this comment

You can also donate to OWS via Paypal.  There is also some way you can write them a check.  Or at least their was last week.

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By heterochromatic, November 25, 2011 at 5:32 pm Link to this comment

She—-source of all the donated cash not really clear…although about 1/3 of it
was collected on the street, the rest is not necessarily all small (and what’s small?)
donations.

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By Shenonymous, November 25, 2011 at 4:56 pm Link to this comment

CNN Money reports OWS has about $600,000 in their coffers
http://tinyurl.com/bu7u2lr  It is from small donations from the
public at large.

Funny how so many blather on these forums without ever checking
out OWS website or reliable news sources. It is being managed by a
finance committee and OWS New York finance student group member
Pete Dutro, donations are “deposited in the Broadway branch of the
Amalgamated Bank, a union-owned bank. Occupy Wall Street has also
registered for 501(c)(3) status, with the Alliance for Global Justice, a
D.C.-based grassroots organization, serving as the movement’s fiscal
sponsor.”  http://tinyurl.com/6ytvo6e
San Francisco Occupy funds are being deposited in Wells Fargo,
http://tinyurl.com/77vlogm  Naturally AH Rush Limbaugh accuses Soros
as behind the movement.  The tenants of Bellevue are a laugh riot.

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By Anarcissie, November 25, 2011 at 4:11 pm Link to this comment

IMax, November 25 at 12:52 pm:

‘... You were saying Occupy has no wealthy or powerful benefactors like the Tea Movement has;) ?’

They didn’t when they started out, as far as I know.  They had a food and media fund of about $15,000, as I recall, which is $50-75 per person given the number of people involved (200-300).  I’m not really privy to their finances, but that’s what was reported—again, as I recall.  I’m going from memory.  The occupiers seem to have planned to live on pizza. 

After a week or two, they began to receive a considerably larger flow of donations.  Someone who stayed there for a few days told me that a donation bucket would fill up in 15 minutes.  I don’t know what’s going on now that the Occupation has been dispersed.  For all I know George Soros is giving them millions and they’re going to rent the grand ballroom at the Waldorf Astoria any minute now.

Charges of hidden funding have been made, but as far as I know no evidence has been presented.

Reports about Tea Party funding:
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2010/10/14/koch-industries-shifts-on-tea-party/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JjQxPJOAfg
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer
http://sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Americans_for_Prosperity
http://underthemountainbunker.com/tag/teaparty-is-astro-turf/

Funding has also come from Tea Party participants themselves, who seem to be somewhat better off than the average American and may therefore have more disposable income:
http://digitaljournal.com/article/289821
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/us/politics/15poll.html
However, participant funding does not come into play until there is something to participate in.

Again, I have no way of verifying any of this, so you all will have to consider and compare the sources.

I apologize for reciting so much that I have posted before, but some people seem to like to ask the same questions over and over, as if they were detectives interrogating malefactors.  Maybe that’s how they think of themselves.

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By IMax, November 25, 2011 at 1:52 pm Link to this comment

Anarcissie,

It’s official. You succeeded in changing the subject for MaYhEm bOy. LOL

-

You were saying Occupy has no wealthy or powerful benefactors like the Tea Movement has;) ?

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By Project Mayhem, November 25, 2011 at 1:01 pm Link to this comment

ITroll appears to believe, like Doktor Goebbels, that if one repeats the lie often enough it becomes the truth.

So, yeah, Anarcissie, you might as well just fess up to bashing the Tea Party dozens of times in your posts. Nah, it was probably more like hundreds. Or thousands, even.

Yeah, let’s go with thousands.

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By Anarcissie, November 25, 2011 at 12:32 pm Link to this comment

IMax, November 25 at 10:43 am:

Anarcissie, - “You said I wrote ‘a lot’ about the Tea Party;”

Come now. I wrote nothing of the kind. I, very simply, wrote that I’ve seen your opinions on the Tea Party movement. ...’

You said (see earlier comments under this subject) that I ‘took every opportunity to belittle’ the Tea Party.  That’s a lot of opportunity and a lot of writing.  I’d like to know what you’re talking about.  Please post the URLs.

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By IMax, November 25, 2011 at 10:43 am Link to this comment

Anarcissie, - “You said I wrote ‘a lot’ about the Tea Party;”

-

Come now. I wrote nothing of the kind. I, very simply, wrote that I’ve seen your opinions on the Tea Party movement. I wrote that, in my opinion, you’ve had more than a little to say about the Tea Movement since 2009.

You’re still trying to change the subject, Anarc.

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By heterochromatic, November 25, 2011 at 10:37 am Link to this comment

Bangladesh in the 1970s

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By Anarcissie, November 25, 2011 at 10:27 am Link to this comment

iMax—We can change the subject to Indian and Chinese capitalism once we get straightened out about my supposed Tea Party articles.  As I recall you declared that whatever was going on in India after independence and before capitalism led to ‘horrendous starvation’, so I pointed out that the last famine occurred in 1943, and that all the great famines occurred under British (liberal capitalist) control.  Then it turned out that ‘horrendous starvation’ didn’t mean famine, just somebody got hungry, I guess.  Who knows?  Anyway, we’ll revisit all that if you like, but first, the Tea Party stuff, please.  URLs.  Let’s have them.

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By heterochromatic, November 25, 2011 at 10:24 am Link to this comment

——’ “has lifted tens of millions of people in India and China away from
homelessness and hunger”, this was not a benevolent thing, it was profit driven…’

there’s no hope when things are judged by whether they’re done for benevolent
reasons to the exclusion of whether they’ve resulted in positive effects…

should I think that someone has reached a point in their argumentation that it’s
marcy to them to cover their face with a pillow for a quarter-hour until they stop
thrashing about, that might be benevolent, but it may not be all good.

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By IMax, November 25, 2011 at 10:18 am Link to this comment

Cliff Carson,

Anarcissie can point you toward several Wikipedia entries which illustrate the correlation between Indian and Chinese economic reforms (market driven reforms) over the past few decades and the dramatic rise of incomes/employment and the lowering of hunger and poverty for tens of millions of people.

I’m sure he’ll share those sources if you request it.

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By Anarcissie, November 25, 2011 at 9:46 am Link to this comment

IMax, November 25 at 5:52 am:

‘Anarc,

You slyly change subject when you find yourself at a loss. ...’

Nothing sly about it.  No change of subject.  You said I wrote a lot about the Tea Party; I asked you for the URLs, because I didn’t know what you were talking about.  I still haven’t seen the URLs.  The batch of URLs you offered refer to previous messages in the conversation we’re having right now.  They’re not ‘a lot about the Tea Party’.  Now, are you going to man up or woman up here, as the case may be, and give me the URLs, or not?

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By Cliff Carson, November 25, 2011 at 9:17 am Link to this comment

RE: Anarcissie, November 24 at 8:30 pm

It seems to me Anarcissie that you are trying to have a intelligent conversation with a tunnel vision nut.

Scheer’s article was mostly about Bloomberg and those like him who have profited by shady dealings.  These same people point the finger of blame toward the innocent in all this mess.

The innocent are usually the victims of the Money faction - not the perpetrators.  Unfortunately we have on the Net a thing called trolls.

A troll has nothing to do with intelligent conversation, their comments are driven by Agenda.  That Agenda is usually to protect the perpetrator. 

Scheer noted that Bloomberg profited about $5.4 Billion during the meltdown brought about by fraud promoted by the people just like Bloomberg.  Money is a powerful force.  Those who don’t wield money power are defenseless against the forces that control the money policy and supply.

The United States Money Policy and Supply is controlled by a Private (Not United States Government) Corporation.  I suspicion that the Corporation places their bottom line above the common good of the people of America.

As to the IMAX statement that market forces “has lifted tens of millions of people in India and China away from homelessness and hunger”, this was not a benevolent thing, it was profit driven because actually “market force” is the movement to maximize profit and that alone.

Market Force is nothing more than a reactive action of the controller seeking profit.  As an example of what I mean:  The maximum profit that could be realized by a Corporation would be that the Corporation could act without restraint, even having the ability to use slaves to produce product for sale to non-slaves.

The only limiting factor for the Corporation would be when the increasing use of slaves depleted the number of non-slaves, in other words the supply of those able to buy.  When that limit is reached the Corporation would no longer be Profitable and the “Market Force” would cease to exist - there would no longer be a profit source.

But not the Corporation, it would live on for a while as a despotic entity until those hungry enough would destroy it - to once again restore freedom to the people.

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By IMax, November 25, 2011 at 5:52 am Link to this comment

Anarc,


You slyly change subject when you find yourself at a loss. You did the very same on another thread after I pointed out how market forces has lifted tens of millions of people in India and China away from homelessness and hunger.

You either didn’t understand or didn’t care for what I had written. You attempted to change the subject toward the world’s record on famine. Your many attempts to change the subject failed with me. It will fail here also.


http://www.truthdig.com/reportitemthe_villain_occupy_wall_street_has_been_waiting_for_20111117/#440518

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_villain_occupy_wall_street_has_been_waiting_for_20111117/#440624

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_villain_occupy_wall_street_has_been_waiting_for_20111117/#440540

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_villain_occupy_wall_street_has_been_waiting_for_20111117/#440518

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_villain_occupy_wall_street_has_been_waiting_for_20111117/#440496


You ought to be clear on this by now. I will not allow you to change the subject after the conversation does not go your way. Not now, not ever.

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By Anarcissie, November 24, 2011 at 8:30 pm Link to this comment

iMax—I used Google and searched for ‘truthdig anarcissie tea party’ and came up with only a few articles that mentioned the Tea Party in passing.  This is not surprising because I don’t know much about the Tea Party, and I tend not to write about things I don’t know about.  So once again, I’ll have to ask you for the URLs.  I don’t know why you’re being so coy about it.  You must be talking about something, right?

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By Shenonymous, November 24, 2011 at 7:53 pm Link to this comment

Ya… auf Wiedersehen

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By heterochromatic, November 24, 2011 at 6:36 pm Link to this comment

now is the time on Sprocket’s when we can’t stop calling each other liar.


http://youtu.be/QHZR9SA5pOg

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By Shenonymous, November 24, 2011 at 6:17 pm Link to this comment

Likewise, Imax, I wouldn’t mind if you repented and “redeemed”
yourself.  You cannot show where I’ve lied.  You’ve been shown
repeatedly that you lie and so much that no one has respect for
anything you say.

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By IMax, November 24, 2011 at 6:08 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous,

It’s too late to save face. You’ve been caught lying.

If we come across each other on another subject I’ll give you every opportunity to redeem yourself. Everyone deserves a second chance.

Know this well. There is nothing you can say about me that will find me offended or with a sense of grievance. It’s just not possible.

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By IMax, November 24, 2011 at 5:56 pm Link to this comment

Anarc,

Revisit my posts on this thread for your answers.

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By Anarcissie, November 24, 2011 at 1:58 pm Link to this comment

iMax—One subject I have not changed is my request that you post the URLs of the messages in which I discussed the Tea Party.  Or the dates and locations.  Where are they?

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By Shenonymous, November 24, 2011 at 12:34 pm Link to this comment

Let’s be clear, you only imagine I am upset, Imax, about your
pettiness, I am not.  I take it in stride.  And as testimony to your
dreaming, there has been absolutely no avoidance addressing your
bull shit comments.  I believe I’ve been overly tolerant.  And yes, I
can believe those who don’t have the health and welfare of the
people who are exploited for self-serving benefit in mind, who
show not an ounce of altruism for those who are kept in a de facto
bondage, are mentally ill. 

Michael Savage has the right to say whatever he wants, as long as it
does not incite murder, mayhem, or violence against the government,
and on an occasion, I have defended his right to do so when he was
barred from England for his sentiments, to the utter horror of the
leftists on this website, criticized up the wazoo, but nevertheless I
believe freedom of speech is a sacred right, not something that
applies only to those who agree with their sympathies.  As far as I
am concerned, I could not care less if Michael Savage lives or dies
and think his sentiments are quite disgusting and completely
antithetical to my own, but he is entitled to his views.  I have never
said anyone should not express their opinion,.

So it is you who tries to nuance that as something I said, when in fact it
is another of your lies. It is maliciousness and dishonest.  But apparently
that is your nature. 

It goes without saying people have differing opinions and whether or not
what they say is evil or not is a matter of social opinion.  Whether or not
they are judged evil themselves or not is colored by what they say.

I am upset by the converged effort of what I consider less than human
that Republicans nationwide are attempting to prevent American citizens
from voting.  That effort must be thwarted and must be thwarted legally. 
But their efforts are various and all the variety of ways needs to be
stopped as violation of the legal rights citizens have. That is an evility in
this society that needs rooted out as a malignancy.

So Imax, put your manneristic patronizing away in that place where the
sun don’t shine.

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By IMax, November 24, 2011 at 11:31 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous,

Just so you know, and I mean this with sincerity, when Michael Savage said that liberalism was a form of mental illness I thought his ways of thinking was grotesque. You don’t want to be like Mike, do you?

You can avoid it if you remain mindful of the fact that people have differing opinions. That does not make them evil, stupid, insane or any less than yourself.

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By IMax, November 24, 2011 at 11:25 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous,

Let’s be clear on what’s happened here. You’re upset over how my question actually forced you to think about the ways in which you think - thus the reason you mention “self-reflection”.

I will tell you what I told Anarc. Changing the subject, avoiding answering direct questions, will never let you off the hook with me. Not now, not ever.

Happy Thanksgiving.

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By PatrickHenry, November 24, 2011 at 11:03 am Link to this comment

Washington DC kept voting in Marion Barry, go figure.

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By Shenonymous, November 24, 2011 at 10:31 am Link to this comment

You are just full of bull shit, Imax.  Go have your turkey.

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By IMax, November 24, 2011 at 10:11 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous, - “If they (republicans) win, there will be deep psychological reasons, which would need exorcised, because voting against one’s own best interest is a ‘mental illness’.”

Same question: Feeling a sense of thankfulness on Thanksgiving day is pretentious but insisting others are insane for not voting how you would wish them to is not?

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By Shenonymous, November 24, 2011 at 9:04 am Link to this comment

Hahahahahahaha…..You are so funny and such a fool, Imax. You
must have felt the sting of my comments. Showing an unbounded
amount of self-love, you are exceedingly boring. All the times I
mention the word vote are as follows and I defy you to show
where I said anything even close about the sanity of voters. It is
my opinion that every voter ought to vote their conscience
and while I am interested in how an election goes, I uphold the right
of each to vote as they choose. I’ve have always said as much in
approximate terms and never said anything to the contrary.  It is
your Right-Wing habit of lying to edify yourself.  Oh well,

Shenonymous, November 17 at 7:10 am - Bloomberg is a
hypocrite but the majority of the people of New York ?voted for
him, dazzled by his wealth and apparent savoir faire

Then again in a responsive post to Foucauldian’s comments Nov. 17
11:09 -

... Bloomberg was elected.  It remains to be seen if he is removed from
office either by a recall or by the next election.  30,000 OWSers are not
the millions of voters in NYC.

Shenonymous, November 18 at 12:24 am – Never one I ?would
ever vote for, Giuliani…

As ?I said, people vote for their own best interests.

Shenonymous, November 19 at 1:41 pm - Maybe they did not
vote three electoral cycles for Bloomberg, and before ?that two for
Giuliani?

And ?sociologically question the city’s reactive vote for two terms
for ?the Truly Right Wing Giuliani. Doesn’t that say something about the
fears of the beebles?

Shenonymous, November 20 at 6:51 am - Earlier you said
something I’ve also iterated a few times, “The greatest ?power and
the largest voice the ‘every-man’ has is the vote. ”  And it ?sounds
very much like what Lafayette has often said.  If this is true, then ?getting
the multitudes out to vote is the injunction. And it is exactly
what I’ve always expressed.

Shenonymous, November 22 at 11:40 pm - As an ardent advocate
of the right to vote and I vigorously encourage ?people to
vote, contrary to some who post on these forums. I think it is ?
derelict to relinquish one’s democratic freedom and right to not vote!
?I believe it is each voter’s obligation to exercise that right.

And my last post Shenonymous, November 23 at 10:53 pm -
Voting as one determines for oneself is the whole idea of freedom,
?liberty, equality, democracy.

Much obliged that you gave me the opportunity to express again my
comments on the issues of voting. All of the above are the
only times I’ve mentioned the word “vote” in its various forms,
of voted, voting, voter’s…  You have my sympathy.  Do get
yourself to a therapist soon.

Need to clean up one more thing, a post to kazy’s comment Nov. 17,
9:26am, I see I missed posting:
“I think you are wrong, kazy. You speak of The Perernnial They, the
phantom people, with nothing to back up your opinion.  My evidence
is Bloomberg was elected.  It remains to be seen if he is removed from
office either by a recall or by the next election.  30,000 OWSers are not
the millions of voters in NYC.  It is not our system of government, it is
those who are elected who use the system to their personal advance-
ment, either amassing more wealthy, or more power that is the reality.
Listen to the OWSers, they do not want to destroy our government. They
want to make it the democracy it is supposed to be.

The Occupiers in their collective protests are not exercising their right to
vote, although they may at election time, and we can only hope they do. 
They are using their physical presence to insist on significant change.  It
could b called a form of coercion but then by that token so is the vote
that coerces an irresponsible politician out of office.

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By IMax, November 24, 2011 at 5:58 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous,

Leaning, as you do, on personal attacks never replaces a well thought out argument.

Everything you write of me may be true, however, might you now try to answer my question?

Feeling a sense of thankfulness on Thanksgiving is pretentious but insisting others are insane for not voting how you would wish them to is not? Do I understand you correctly?

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By Shenonymous, November 23, 2011 at 10:53 pm Link to this comment

Your conspicuous lack of self-reflection, Imax, displays your
incapacity to apprehend the true nature of my and other’s remarks. 
Your understanding is seriously meager. The obviousness of that
deficit shows why you continue to make anemic comments. 

Voting as one determines for oneself is the whole idea of freedom,
liberty, equality, democracy.  Don’t you think? 

Your insistent petty interrogatives shows a disturbed psyche. I strongly
urge you to try to find a way to have a better life, one which you might find
happier.

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By IMax, November 23, 2011 at 8:53 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous,

Feeling a sense of thankfulness on Thanksgiving is pretentious but insisting others are insane for not voting how you would wish them to is not?

Do I understand you correctly?

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By Shenonymous, November 23, 2011 at 8:10 am Link to this comment

Speaking of thanks, I will give thanks not just on Thursday, which
is pretentious, but on everyday since September 17, 2011, to the
very human Occupiers in New York and everywhere in the world for
standing up to authoritarians, those who bravely are representing us
and who eventually will prevail.  And especially for the 33 Egyptians
who gave their lives and the million who have returned to Tahrir
Square for democracy and to rid Egypt of the continuing oppression
of the military junta. 

And by the way, Imax, thanks for repeating my particularly poignant line
about where you stash your accusations.

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By Shenonymous, November 23, 2011 at 7:57 am Link to this comment

Way…elll Imax, mebbee so, but it is an amusement park.  ‘specially
with those who cannot answer very well but gee and haw and jes
doan give no fachewal proof.  You did the same against Anarcissie
who also called you on your blank cards.  So may you have a good
holiday, and I, well I will have a part of a turkey with all the trimmings
while those in the Somalia continue to starve thanks to religio/politics.
Now which god ought they, and we, to give thanks to?

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By IMax, November 23, 2011 at 4:39 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous,- “I won’t be crude and say where I think you really pull them out of”

-

Is possible you’ve been on these boards too long?

Hoping you have a good Holiday.

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By Shenonymous, November 22, 2011 at 11:40 pm Link to this comment

IMax, November 22 at 4:12 pm – You are incorrect in a couple
of ways.  I blame Republicans for most of this country’s financial
morass and social problems with issues like women’s rights to
their own bodies, religion’s nose in government and affecting the
dumbing-down education of our young, I blame them for most of
the national ills in the poor quality of infrastructure, and the poor
access to medical help of the less privileged, I could go on but you
get the idea.  I blame the Democrats who have been intimidated by
the power of conservatives.  You would have to provide some published
stats on the 40% you are bandying about, else we are bound to think you
are pulling them out of your head (I won’t be crude and say where I think
you really pull them out of). 

Of course the perception of one’s best interests are mostly subjective. 
It is possible that there are occasions when objective input could be
useful.  I can’t imagine how you came to the conclusion that I treat the
notion of one’s best interest as an absolute?  It is very odd.  Also your
arcane and illogical connection between absolutism and stalemate.  If,
there is a stalemate, it is more reasonable to assume there is no battle. 
There is no winner in a stalemate.  Each side picks up their pieces (of
whatever) and goes home.

As an ardent advocate of the right to vote and I vigorously encourage
people to vote, contrary to some who post on these forums. I think it is
derelict to relinquish one’s democratic freedom and right to not vote! 
I believe it is each voter’s obligation to exercise that right.  I am incensed
and have frequently expressed my outrage at the current, but also
historic, Republican execrable effort to disenfranchise millions of voters! 
Of their attempt to deprive that right of citizens to speak their view of
governance and the way their government operates.  It is difficult to
imagine again your confused perception and implication of your cryptic
comment. 

It might be helpful if you would go into a deep contemplative mode of
self-reflection.

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By IMax, November 22, 2011 at 4:12 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous,

We disagree on much. I don’t spend much time blaming republicans for representing roughly 40% of the electorate. I blame the democrats for misrepresenting roughly 40% of the electorate.

I believe one’s best interest is subjective. You treat it as an absolute. Absolutism leads to stalemate. Stalemates, too often, lead to battle. Often bloody battles.

And if one doesn’t vote, can’t be bothered to represent oneself, well, shut the hell up. You’re in the way.

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By IMax, November 22, 2011 at 3:43 pm Link to this comment

Anarcissie, - “I’m not going to discuss things you ‘make up’.” 

-

That has been your standard reply when you become evasive. You do know this, yes? Though you are good at pronouncements. One of the best I’ve seen here.

You did write in Sept. 010 that the Tea Party would not amount to anything. Just two months before a Tea Party sweep of the entire country. Yes, I’m saying you read the movement like most here of the time. Incorrectly. I believe you’re doing the very same with this moment in history with Occupy.

I’m here arguing that the same Tea Movement success can be recreated in innumerable ways, perhaps greater ways, toward the ‘Occupy’ message and agenda. Have we not seen that what I advocate is a realistic goal in the very direction, I think, we both general agree on? What I advocate is immediately doable. In fact, the sooner the better while the nation is peaked. You find it a time for passive ridicule.

I still say you should take a look at the economies of China and India. What, exactly, is the driving force lifting tens of millions of people out of poverty today? Whatever that is it needs to be duplicated everywhere.

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By Shenonymous, November 22, 2011 at 12:14 pm Link to this comment

”We can’t come off as sore losers and cry foul every time a
Republican wins office. People will believe we never take
responsibility, for anything.”

Maybe not, but we sure can be introspective and self-critical
about why they did, then take steps to correct our course.  If
they win, there will be deep psychological reasons, which would
need exorcised, because voting against one’s own best interest
is a mental illness. 

Those who would think “we” are unable to take responsibility for
anything, anything? Really? well they would think so anyway,
they are the 1% elites who already are carping and screeching about
the Occupy Movement.  Just listen to the vicious Newt Gingrich.  What a
totally mean and contemptible gargoyle who is the current dahling of the
rahpacious Repuhblicans. (spelling is on purpose).  It’s my new meme. 
These are not attributes to be proud of.

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By Anarcissie, November 22, 2011 at 9:32 am Link to this comment

iMax—I’m not going to discuss things you make up.  They’re not that interesting.

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By IMax, November 22, 2011 at 7:23 am Link to this comment

Tom Paine,

I’ll be direct. You’re wrong.

I didn’t vote for Bush. I would not have voted for him to be Dog-Catcher, however, every legitimate study of the 2000 election clearly show Bush/Cheney, very narrowly, won that election (they won by larger margins in 2004).

If your theory is correct why is Obama in the Oval office today? Vote fraud broke-down last time around?

We can’t come off as sore losers and cry foul every time a republican wins office. People will believe we never take responsibility, for anything.

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By IMax, November 22, 2011 at 7:16 am Link to this comment

Anarcissie,

I must admit, you are extremely creative.

Over the course of the past few weeks I have asked you, maybe, a dozen questions concerning your views. If memory serves you have been unable, or unwilling, to answer more than one or two. But you feel comfortable in asking me to answer questions?

Your ability to dodge the tougher questions and change the subject is very creative.

-

I have another question.

What is the definition of a Troll? Is a Troll any opposing opinion? Any individual who has the temerity to ask direct questions and reasonably expect, at least the attempt of, an answer?

I ask because Mayhem seems not to know. Or, conversely, he appears not to bother with mirrors.

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By Shenonymous, November 21, 2011 at 6:21 pm Link to this comment

I don’t know.  There is no evidence the rich will not continue to
go out on their yachts, have their Martinis, Margaritas, Gimlets,
and Whiskey Sours, then sail off to the Bahamas, and do whatever
they usually do regardless of whatever awful state the world is in. 
Occupy is making the millions of Americans pay attention maybe
for their first time.  The banks are an evil entity.  The Republicans
are an evil entity in league with the banks and Wall Street.  Just look
at what the ones on the Supercommittee have done.  Once again they
are the Darth Vaders of the Financial Empire.  You’d think their lips
would get swollen from all the asskissing they are doing.

Dylan’s Sundown Union is a perfect anthem for Occupiers.  Besides,
it’s really swinging!

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By heterochromatic, November 21, 2011 at 5:40 pm Link to this comment

She—I so enjoyed your Dylanfest that I couldn’t help but throw one into the pot.


(I marked the lyrics that I thought pertinent) 

being rich avails you little when catastrophe is general…and most folks aren’t
paying attention to the fate of others when they think it’s not entwined with their
own.

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By Shenonymous, November 21, 2011 at 5:03 pm Link to this comment

5 Yups – Black Diamond Bay is a great one.  I love it.  Didn’t
seem quite Occupier to me.  Since there are about 150 Dylan
songs, I thought it might be a bit much to put them all on this
forum???  LOL but hey, Thanks.  I have 103 of them. Your youtube
link is the best of his recording of it.

16 ton is a Johnny Cash winner, but Dylan was requested and he is my
fav. 

Seems like music is needed about now.  I read where Michael Fox was
giving some performances for Occupiers.

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By heterochromatic, November 21, 2011 at 3:14 pm Link to this comment

As the island slowly sank

The loser finally broke the bank in the gambling room

The dealer said “It’s too late now

You can take you money, but I don’t know how

You’ll spend it in the tomb”

The tiny man bit the soldier’s ear

As the floor caved in and the boiler in the basement blew

While she’s out on the balcony where a stranger tells her

“My darling je vous aime beaucoup”

She sheds a tear and then begins to pray

As the fire burns on and the smoke drifts away

From Black Diamond Bay.

I was sitting home alone one night in LA

Watching old Cronkite on the seven o’clock news

It seems there was an earthquake that

Left nothing but a Panama hat

And a pair of old Greek shoes

Didn’t seem like much was happening

So I turned it off and went to grab another beer

Seems like every time you turn around

There’s another hard-luck story that you’re gonna hear

And there’s really nothing anyone can say

And I never did plan to go anyway

 

http://youtu.be/mNCBYvsf5Qw

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By Anarcissie, November 21, 2011 at 2:58 pm Link to this comment

Where’s Sixteen Tons?

‘Another day older and deeper in debt.’  Seems to speak for many in our times.

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By Shenonymous, November 21, 2011 at 2:55 pm Link to this comment

“The Times They Are A-Changin’”
“The Times They Are A-Changin’”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCWdCKPtnYE

Come gather ‘round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You’ll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you
Is worth savin’
Then you better start swimmin’
Or you’ll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin’.

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won’t come again
And don’t speak too soon
For the wheel’s still in spin
And there’s no tellin’ who
That it’s namin’
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin’.

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don’t stand in the doorway
Don’t block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There’s a battle outside
And it is ragin’
It’ll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin’.

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don’t criticize
What you can’t understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin’
Please get out of the new one
If you can’t lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin’.

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin’
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin’.

“Union Sundown”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymLA6ijpF7o

Well, my shoes, they comes from Singapore
My flashlight’s from Taiwan
My tablecloth’s from Malayisia
My belt buckle’s from the Amazon
You know, this shirt I wear comes from the Philippines
And the car I drive is a Chevrolet
It was put together down in Argentina
By a guy making thirty cents a day.

Well, it’s sundown on the union
And what’s made in the USA
Sure was a good idea
‘Til greed got in the way.

Well, this silk dress is from Hong Kong
And the pearls are from Japan
Well, the dog collar’s from India
And the flower pot’s from Pakistan
All the furniture it said “Made in Brazil”
Where a woman, she slaved for sure
Bringing home thirty cents a day to a family of twelve
You know, that’s a lot of money to her.

Well, it’s sundown on the union
And what’s made in the USA
Sure was a good idea
‘Til greed got in the way.

Well, you know, lots of people complaining that there is no work
I say, “Why you say that for
When nothing you got is US made ?”
They don’t make nothing here no more
You know, capitalism is above the law
It say, “it don’t count ‘less it sells”
When it costs too much to build it at home
You just build it cheaper someplace else.

Well, it’s sundown on the union
And what’s made in the USA
Sure was a good idea
‘Til greed got in the way.
Well, the job that you used to have
They gave it to somebody down in El Salvador
The unions are big business, friend
And they’re going out like a dinosaur
They used to grow food in Kansas
Now they want to grow it on the moon and eat it raw
I can see the day coming when even your home garden
Is gonna be against the law.

Well, it’s sundown on the union
And what’s made in the USA
Sure was a good idea
‘Til greed got in the way.

Democracy don’t rule the world
You’d better get that in your head
This world is ruled by violence
But I guess that’s better left unsaid
From Broadway to the Milky Way
That’s a lot of territory indeed
And a man’s gonna do what he has to do
When he’s got a hungry mouth to feed.

Well, it’s sundown on the union
And what’s made in the USA
Sure was a good idea
‘Til greed got in the way.

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By Shenonymous, November 21, 2011 at 2:52 pm Link to this comment

“Workingman’s Blues #2”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqsJ7BVW6rk

There’s an evening haze settling over town
Starlight by the edge of the creek
The buying power of the proletariat’s gone down
Money’s getting shallow and weak
Well, the place I love best is a sweet memory
It’s a new path that we trod
They say low wages are a reality
If we want to compete abroad

My cruel weapons have been put on the shelf
Come sit down on my knee
You are dearer to me than myself
As you yourself can see
While I’m listening to the steel rails hum
Got both eyes tight shut
Just sitting here trying to keep the hunger from
Creeping it’s way into my gut

Meet me at the bottom, don’t lag behind
Bring me my boots and shoes
You can hang back or fight your best on the frontline
Sing a little bit of these workingman’s blues

Well, I’m sailing on back, ready for the long haul
Tossed by the winds and the seas
I’ll drag them all down to hell and I’ll stand them at the wall
I’ll sell them to their enemies
I’m trying to feed my soul with thought
Going to sleep off the rest of the day
Sometimes no one wants what we got
Sometimes you can’t give it away

Now the place is ringed with countless foes
Some of them may be deaf and dumb
No man, no woman knows
The hour that sorrow will come
In the dark I hear the night birds call
I can feel a lover’s breath
I sleep in the kitchen with my feet in the hall
Sleep is like a temporary death

Well, they burned my barn, and they stole my horse
I can’t save a dime
I got to be careful, I don’t want to be forced
Into a life of continual crime
I can see for myself that the sun is sinking
How I wish you were here to see
Tell me now, am I wrong in thinking
That you have forgotten me?

Now they worry and they hurry and they fuss and they fret
They waste your nights and days
Them I will forget
But you I’ll remember always
Old memories of you to me have clung
You’ve wounded me with your words
Gonna have to straighten out your tongue
It’s all true, everything you’ve heard

In you, my friend, I find no blame
Wanna look in my eyes, please do
No one can ever claim
That I took up arms against you
All across the peaceful sacred fields
They will lay you low
They’ll break your horns and slash you with steel
I say it so it must be so

Now I’m down on my luck and I’m black and blue
Gonna give you another chance
I’m all alone and I’m expecting you
To lead me off in a cheerful dance
I got a brand new suit and a brand new wife
I can live on rice and beans
Some people never worked a day in their life
Don’t know what work even means.

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By Shenonymous, November 21, 2011 at 2:50 pm Link to this comment

“Not Dark Yet”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e4a-QpfhD8
(have to wait through a short commercial! but it’s worth it!)

Shadows are fallin’ and I’ve been here all day
It’s too hot to sleep and time is runnin’ away
Feel like my soul has turned into steel
I’ve still got the scars that the sun didn’t heal
There’s not even room enough to be anywhere
It’s not dark yet but it’s gettin’ there.

Well, my sense of humanity has gone down the drain
Behind every beautiful thing there’s been some kind of pain
She wrote me a letter and she wrote it so kind
She put down in writin’ what was in her mind
I just don’t see why I should even care
It’s not dark yet but it’s gettin’ there.

Well, I’ve been to London and I been to gay Paris
I’ve followed the river and I got to the sea
I’ve been down on the bottom of the world full of lies
I ain’t lookin’ for nothin’ in anyone’s eyes
Sometimes my burden is more than I can bear
It’s not dark yet but it’s gettin’ there.

I was born here and I’ll die here against my will
I know it looks like I’m movin’ but I’m standin’ still
Every nerve in my body is so naked and numb
I can’t even remember what it was I came here to get away from
Don’t even hear the murmur of a prayer
It’s not dark yet but it’s gettin’ there.


“Political World”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e4a-QpfhD8

We live in a political world
Love don’t have any place
We’re living in times
Where men commit crimes
And crime don’t have any face.

We live in a political world
Icicles hanging down
Wedding bells ring
And angels sing
Clouds cover up the ground.

We live in a political world
Wisdom is thrown in jail
It rots in a cell
Is misguided as hell
Leaving no one to pick up a trail.

We live in a political world
Where mercy walks the plank
Life is in mirrors
Death disappears
Up the steps into the nearest bank.

We live in a political world
Where courage is a thing of the past
Houses are haunted
Children unwanted
The next day could be your last.

We live in a political world
The one we can see and feel
But there’s no one to check
It’s all a stacked deck
We all know for sure that it’s real.

We live in a political world
In the cities of lonesome fear
Little by little
You turn in the middle
But you’re never sure why you’re here.
We live in a political world
Under the microscope
You can travel anywhere
And hang yourself there
You always got more than enough rope.

We live in a political world
Turning and trashing about
As soon as you’re awake
You’re trained to take
What looks like the easy way out.

We live in a political world
Where peace is not welcome at all
It’s turned away from the door
To wonder some more
Or put up against the wall.

We live in a political world
Everything is hers and his
Climb into the frame
And shout God’s name
But you’re never sure what it is.

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By Shenonymous, November 21, 2011 at 2:49 pm Link to this comment

Two of the policemen put on administrative leave who pepper
sprayed the students!  The police need to be policed!  Stay tuned.

“Man Of Peace”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj33v14LD1k

Look out your window, baby, there’s a scene you’d like to catch
The band is playing “Dixie”, a man got his hand outstretched
Could be the FÅhrer
Could be the local priest
You know sometimes Satan, you know he comes as a man of peace.

He got a sweet gift of gab, he got a harmonious tongue
He knows every song of love that ever has been sung
Good intentions can be evil
Both hands can be full of grease
You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.

Well, first he’s in the background, and then he’s in the front
Both eyes are looking like they’re on a rabbit hunt
Nobody can see through him
No, not even the Chief of Police
You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.

Well, he catch you when you’re hoping for a glimpse of the sun
Catch you when your troubles feel like they weigh a ton
He could be standing next to you
The person that you’d notice least
I hear that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.

Well, he can be fascinating, he can be dull
He can ride down Niagara Falls in the barrels of your skull
I can smell something cooking
I can tell there’s going to be a feast
You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.

He’s a great humanitarian, he’s great philanthropist
He knows just where to touch you honey, and how you like to be kissed
He’ll put both his arms around you
You can feel the tender touch of the beast
You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.

Well, the howling wolf will howl tonight, the king snake will crawl
Trees that’ve stood for a thousand years suddenly will fall
Wanna get married ? Do it now
Tomorrow all activity will cease
You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.
Somewhere Mama’s weeping for her blue-eyed boy
She’s holding them little white shoes and that little broken toy
And he’s following a star
The same one them three men followed from the East
I hear that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.


“Masters Of War”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onRobFQchS0

Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build all the bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks.

You that never done nothin’
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it’s your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly.

Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain.

You fasten all the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion’
As young people’s blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud.

You’ve thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain’t worth the blood
That runs in your veins.

How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I’m young
You might say I’m unlearned
But there’s one thing I know
Though I’m younger than you
That even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do.

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul.

And I hope that you die
And your death’ll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I’ll watch while you’re lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I’ll stand over your grave
‘Til I’m sure that you’re dead.

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By Shenonymous, November 21, 2011 at 2:48 pm Link to this comment

Take your pick…  here are nine really good ones and they all
seem to fit.

Bob Dylan

Everything Is Broken”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kT1OVZxyZw

Broken lines broken strings
Broken threads broken springs
Broken idols broken heads
People sleeping in broken beds
Ain’t no use jiving
Ain’t no use joking
Everything is broken.

Broken bottles broken plates
Broken switches broken gates
Broken dishes broken parts
Streets are filled with broken hearts
Broken words never meant to be spoken
Everything is broken.

Seem like every time you stop and turn around
Something else just hit the ground
Broken cutters broken saws
Broken buckles broken laws
Broken bodies broken bones
Broken voices on broken phones
Take a deep breath feel like you’re chokin’
Everything is broken.

Everytime you leave and go off someplace
Things fall to pieces in my face
Broken hands on broken ploughs
Broken treaties broken vows
Broken pipes broken tools
People bending broken rules
Hound dog howling bullfrog croaking
Everything is broken.


“Jokerman”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwdUwxhjnYY

Standing on the water, casting your bread
While the eyes of the idol with the iron head are glowing
Distant ships sailing into the mist
You were born with a snake in both of your fists while a hurricane was
blowing
Freedom just around the corner for you
But with truth so far off, what good will it do.

Jokerman dance to the nightingale tune
Bird fly high by the light of the moon
Oh, oh, oh, Jokerman.

So swiftly the sun sets in the sky
You rise up and say goodbye to no one
Fools rush in where angels fear to tread
Both of their futures, so full of dread, you don’t show one
Shedding off one more layer of skin
Keeping one step ahead of the persecutor within.

Jokerman dance to the nightingale tune
Bird fly high by the light of the moon
Oh, oh, oh, Jokerman.

You’re a man of the mountains, you can walk on the clouds
Manipulator of crowds, you’re a dream twister
You’re going to Sodom and Gomorrah
But what do you care ? Ain’t nobody there would want marry your sister
Friend to the martyr, a friend to the woman of shame
You look into the fiery furnace, see the rich man without any name.

Jokerman dance to the nightingale tune
Bird fly high by the light of the moon
Oh, oh, oh, Jokerman.

Well, the Book of Leviticus and Deuteronomy
The law of the jungle and the sea are your only teachers
In the smoke of the twilight on a milk-white steed
Michelangelo indeed could’ve carved out your features
Resting in the fields, far from the turbulent space
Half asleep near the stars with a small dog licking your face.

Jokerman dance to the nightingale tune
Bird fly high by the light of the moon
Oh, oh, oh, Jokerman.

Well, the rifleman’s stalking the sick and the lame
Preacherman seeks the same, who’ll get there first is uncertain
Nightsticks and water cannons, tear gas, padlocks
Molotov cocktails and rocks behind every curtain
False-hearted judges dying in the webs that they spin
Only a matter of time ‘til the night comes stepping in.

Jokerman dance to the nightingale tune
Bird fly high by the light of the moon
Oh, oh, oh, Jokerman.

It’s a shadowy world, skies are slippery gray
A woman just gave birth to a prince today and dressed him in scarlet
He’ll put the priest in his pocket, put the blade to the heat
Take the motherless children off the street
And place them at the feet of a harlot
Oh, Jokerman, you know what he wants
Oh, Jokerman, you don’t show any response.

Jokerman dance to the nightingale tune
Bird fly high by the light of the moon
Oh, oh, oh, Jokerman.

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By terry p, November 21, 2011 at 1:22 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

OWS isn’t dead—not yet anyway? OWS was the glue that held the idea of change together. They pointed out that leaders weren’t working for the kind of change we need but for what the .01%ers & Bloomberg want. Without this iconic occupation the same old wall street representatives and/or their political critters would slither back in the propped up media scenes claiming the true meaning of it all. They’ll have answers for us as though our needs are one and the same. “Go home”, they’ll say, “you brought attention to the problems and now we will take the reins of the movement now.” They will stand on a platform paid for by the enemies hidden behind the curtains of the Wall Street banks.

We need this occupation. It gives common people who have absolutely no power a voice and choice to stand up and be heard. It was just enough of a pep rally, for all people to actually feel as though they are a part of a movement that works. It gave life to a perpetual occupation! We’d forgotten what freedom looks and feels like. This gave people what they’ve been missing - a voice!

This movement isn’t over. Look around. It is alive all over the world. Today, Occupy Oakland talks about joining with the unions to shut down shipping for a day on Dec. 12th. The winds of change are a blowin. Bob Dylan we need some song.

tp:?)

tp

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By Tom Paine, November 21, 2011 at 12:45 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Imax is delusional. He still thinks that our votes count for anything. This much is clear from the voting fraud that got Bush elected twice. It has been proven that elections can be rigged, and have been rigged, which should tell everyone here that our vote is no longer worth anything at all.

When you block every road to progress for the common good of all people, you create a single route that acts as a funnel for all of society. As time marches on, the people will be led along this single route and down the funnel where the other side is chaos, violence, and barbarism. When the consequences of not acting out become greater than the consequences of acting out, people will become violent in response to all of these issues. These are all common sense conclusions that one can reach through reasonable deduction and analytical philosophy. It would be very foolish to think that the laws of probability are working in our favor.

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By Project Mayhem, November 21, 2011 at 11:07 am Link to this comment

“Mayhem— So you think ol’ iMax is a troll, do you?  Who would have guessed!”

Who, indeed? A spate of mindless, histrionic video-linking in a thread a couple weeks back first brought it to my attention; it was as odd as it was repugnant. Anyhoo, a leopard can’t change his spots, jes?

“I thought it might have been my evil twin getting up to no good again.  But then I remembered that I myself am my evil twin.”

Lucky you. I have to make due with an evil stepmother. It’s just not the same, I’ll tell you.

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By Anarcissie, November 21, 2011 at 10:47 am Link to this comment

Mayhem— So you think ol’ iMax is a troll, do you?  Who would have guessed!

I thought it might have been my evil twin getting up to no good again.  But then I remembered that I myself am my evil twin.

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By Project Mayhem, November 21, 2011 at 9:42 am Link to this comment

Anarcissie,

It seems to me trolls suffer from an intellectual laziness, likely a legacy of their stunted critical faculties. One result of this is that they appear to feel no need to substantiate their fanciful narratives with evidence, because, in fact, they cannot. When called on their nonsense, they resort to sundry misdirections, living in the hope that the fog of doublespeak will conceal the the essentially vacuous nature of their discourse, a void which mirrors that found in their reasoning.

You once advised me, in reference to another poster on these forums, that I was wasting my time responding to him. I’d like now to extend that same sound advice to you.

Selah.

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By Anarcissie, November 21, 2011 at 8:06 am Link to this comment

iMax—The reason I asked you for references to writing of mine about the Tea Party is because I don’t remember having much to say about it.  This is because I don’t know much about it.  So when you say I have written a lot about it, my curiosity is naturally provoked.  I want to know what you’re talking about.  If I’ve written as much about the Tea Party as you say I have, it should be easy to come up with a list of URLs.

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By Shenonymous, November 21, 2011 at 7:39 am Link to this comment

heterochromatic, November 20 at 11:03 pm - Very much
appreciated the Auden.  It is much darker than the Poe!  It is
stunning how the ogres allegorically fits the Right-Wingers and
their masters the Financial Empire.  Sometimes poetry expresses
what cannot be in ordinary language.  Thanks.  We might have to
make such contributions from time to time as reminders of just
how bleak the situation is. 

The effects of the willingness of the Republicans as a unified storm-
trooper group to bow to the thumbscrews of Grover Norquist’s Pledge
and put such fealty to the lobbyist and his obligatory slavery to the
Financial Empire instead of to the good governance of this country’s
common population is fast becoming a ruination of this country.  It
was surprising that for the first time I’ve heard on a news discussion
program, MSNBC, this morning, something I’ve been saying for months,
is that politicians who obstruct the progress of Congress to work toward
fixing the jobs program, the financial morass this country is in, need to
be removed from office, voted out of office. It was repeated a few times
by several of the program talking heads.  It was so surprising that I
almost fell off my kitchen stool and spilled my coffee!  This needs to be
spoken loudly in all quarters of our society regularly until the
composition of Congress is one that works for the benefit of the
American people and not for their corporate money masters. 

Electing Elizabeth Warren in Massachusetts and anyone who even comes
close to her crusade is a first step in that direction. 

The fact that Newt Gingrich, whose stated policies would further
sink this country into Republican disaster is leading the polls of the
Republican primary candidates poignantly tells us that The Republican
Party is the Party Against the People and that they must be defeated in
every election possible if we want a country responsive to the needs of
the people.

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, November 21, 2011 at 5:05 am Link to this comment

Hetero - “you opened the discussion”

LOL…no didn’t. I voiced my observations on a commentator’s past posts. I certainly never agreed to revisit his past comments in order to illustrate, what is to me, the obvious.

I revisit other’s comments for my own edification and entertainment. Not for your entertainment or Anarc’s desire to move the dialog away from the subject.

Feel free to show me incorrect if it’s important to you. You can start with this thread…lol.

-

Anarc,

Did you not once write that the Tea Movement would never amount to much? Did you not write that OWS was somehow “different” from past protests but was unable to articulate any real difference? Did you not write that people select ideologies as a license for doing violence? Did you not write that the Tea protests were full of inconsistencies and contradictions?

These things you have opined have lead me to the conclusion that you’ve not given Occupy the same treatment as past Tea protests. I stand by that opinion and, not unlike yourself, feel absolutely no need to prove my opinions as I see them.

LOL…You certainly didn’t go out of your way to prove Occupy has no wealthy or powerful benefactors. Nor did you prove the Tea Movement has. You simply voiced your opinion as you see it.

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By heterochromatic, November 20, 2011 at 11:03 pm Link to this comment

The Ogre does what ogres can,
Deeds quite impossible for Man,
But one prize is beyond his reach:
The Ogre cannot master speech.

About a subjugated plain,
Among it’s desperate and slain,
The Ogre stalks with hands on hips,
While drivel gushes from his lips.
               
                                    —W. H. Auden, August 1968

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By heterochromatic, November 20, 2011 at 11:01 pm Link to this comment

IMax—-you opened the discussion…..put up or do something else.

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Anarcissie's avatar

By Anarcissie, November 20, 2011 at 11:01 pm Link to this comment

iMax—Post a few URLs.  I’m curious as to what you’re referring to.

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Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, November 20, 2011 at 10:50 pm Link to this comment

As the forum sinks (amusingly) into the darkness of madness…

Much I marvelled this ungainly fowl to hear discourse so plainly,
Though its answer little meaning — little relevancy bore;
For we cannot help agreeing that no living human being
Ever yet was blessed with seeing bird above his chamber door —
Bird or beast upon the sculptured bust above his chamber door,
        With such name as “Nevermore.”

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