Winner 2013 Webby Awards for Best Political Website
Top Banner, Site wide
Apr 17, 2014

 Choose a size
Text Size

Top Leaderboard, Site wide

Jeb Bush’s Optimism School
Climate Costs ‘May Prove Much Higher’




Paul Robeson: A Life


Truthdig Bazaar more items

 
Report

The Tears of Gaza Must Be Our Tears

Email this item Email    Print this item Print    Share this item... Share

Posted on Aug 9, 2010
Nasser Shiyoukhi

An Israeli border policeman watches tear gas disperse in front of Palestinian supporters of Hamas after the 2009 election.

By Chris Hedges

Chris Hedges made these remarks Thursday night in New York City at a fundraiser for sponsoring a U.S. boat to break the blockade of Gaza. More information can be found at www.ustogaza.org.


When I lived in Jerusalem I had a friend who confided in me that as a college student in the United States she attended events like these, wrote up reports and submitted them to the Israel consulate for money. It would be naive to assume this Israeli practice has ended. So, I want first tonight to address that person, or those persons, who may have come to this event for the purpose of reporting on it to the Israeli government.

I would like to remind them that it is they who hide in darkness. It is we who stand in the light. It is they who deceive. It is we who openly proclaim our compassion and demand justice for those who suffer in Gaza. We are not afraid to name our names. We are not afraid to name our beliefs. And we know something you perhaps sense with a kind of dread. As Martin Luther King said, the arc of the moral universe is long but it bends toward justice, and that arc is descending with a righteous fury that is thundering down upon the Israeli government.

You may have the bulldozers, planes and helicopters that smash houses to rubble, the commandos who descend from ropes on ships and kill unarmed civilians on the high seas as well as in Gaza, the vast power of the state behind you. We have only our hands and our hearts and our voices. But note this. Note this well. It is you who are afraid of us. We are not afraid of you. We will keep working and praying, keep protesting and denouncing, keep pushing up against your navy and your army, with nothing but our bodies, until we prove that the force of morality and justice is greater than hate and violence. And then, when there is freedom in Gaza, we will forgive ... you. We will ask you to break bread with us. We will bless your children even if you did not find it in your heart to bless the children of those you occupied. And maybe it is this forgiveness, maybe it is the final, insurmountable power of love, which unsettles you the most.

And so tonight, a night when some seek to name names and others seek to hide names, let me do some naming. Let me call things by their proper names. Let me cut through the jargon, the euphemisms we use to mask human suffering and war crimes. “Closures” mean heavily armed soldiers who ring Palestinian ghettos, deny those trapped inside food or basic amenities—including toys, razors, chocolate, fishing rods and musical instruments—and carry out a brutal policy of collective punishment, which is a crime under international law. “Disputed land” means land stolen from the Palestinians. “Clashes” mean, almost always, the killing or wounding of unarmed Palestinians, including children. “Jewish neighborhoods in the West Bank” mean fortress-like compounds that serve as military outposts in the campaign of ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians. “Targeted assassinations” mean extrajudicial murder. “Air strikes on militant bomb-making posts” mean the dropping of huge iron fragmentation bombs from fighter jets on densely crowded neighborhoods that always leaves scores of dead and wounded, whose only contact with a bomb was the one manufactured in the United States and given to the Israeli Air Force as part of our complicity in the occupation. “The peace process” means the cynical, one-way route to the crushing of the Palestinians as a people.

Advertisement

Square, Site wide
These are some names. There are others. Dr. Izzeldin Abuelaish in the late afternoon of Jan. 16, 2009, had a pair of Israeli tank shells rip through a bedroom in his Gaza apartment, killing three of his daughters—Bessan, Mayar and Aya—along with a niece, Noor.

“I have the right to feel angry,” says Abuelaish. “But I ask, ‘Is this the right way?’ So many people were expecting me to hate. My answer to them is I shall not hate.”

“Whom to hate?” asks the 55-year-old gynecologist, who was born a Palestinian refugee and raised in poverty. “My Israeli friends? My Israeli colleagues? The Israeli babies I have delivered?”

The Palestinian poet Taha Muhammad Ali wrote this in his poem “Revenge”:

At times ... I wish

I could meet in a duel

the man who killed my father

and razed our home,

expelling me

into

a narrow country.

And if he killed me,

I’d rest at last,

and if I were ready—

I would take my revenge!

*

But if it came to light,

when my rival appeared,

that he had a mother

waiting for him,

or a father who’d put

his right hand over

the heart’s place in his chest

whenever his son was late

even by just a quarter-hour

for a meeting they’d set—

then I would not kill him,

even if I could.

*

Likewise ... I

would not murder him

if it were soon made clear

that he had a brother or sisters

who loved him and constantly longed to see him.

Or if he had a wife to greet him

and children who

couldn’t bear his absence

and whom his gifts would thrill.

Or if he had

friends or companions,

neighbors he knew

or allies from prison

or a hospital room,

or classmates from his school …

asking about him

and sending him regards.

*

But if he turned

out to be on his own—

cut off like a branch from a tree—

without a mother or father,

with neither a brother nor sister,

wifeless, without a child,

and without kin or neighbors or friends,

colleagues or companions,

then I’d add not a thing to his pain

within that aloneness—

not the torment of death,

and not the sorrow of passing away.

Instead I’d be content

to ignore him when I passed him by

on the street—as I

convinced myself

that paying him no attention

in itself was a kind of revenge.


New and Improved Comments

If you have trouble leaving a comment, review this help page. Still having problems? Let us know. If you find yourself moderated, take a moment to review our comment policy.

By ardee, August 17, 2010 at 10:59 am Link to this comment

severed2009, August 17 at 1:49 pm

Since the USA is a Christian nation the citizens therein should easily agree to return this stolen land back to the Amerinds from whom they stole it and upon whom they committed genocide.

Now that is a bit of a tongue in cheek response to a rather poorly thought out conjecture on your part ( in my opinion). The Palestinians deserve a homeland, they do not deserve to be thrown from pillar to post and resettled in other nations. Nor does your (mild) diatribe against other Arab nations deserve any riposte. I would remind that Jordan did take in quite a number of said refugees and made them citizens to boot.

To blame the other nations of that region for the heinous and intolerable actions of Israel makes very little sense, but then it does dovetail within a post entirely without any merit.

Report this

By severed2009, August 17, 2010 at 9:49 am Link to this comment

Since Muslims believe in a Muslim community of faith that transcends and
predates the contemporary nation-state, an alternate solution to the Mideast
mess is for the Muslim governments in the surrounding countries to allow the
Palestinians, their fellows in the community of faith, to emigrate (at least
temporarily).

This is not going to happen because these governments need the ongoing and
never-ending Israeli-Palestinian conflict to distract their citizens from their
general fecklessness.  There are no good guys in control here; the good guys
are those in every country who want an end to the lies, hypocrisy, hatred,
propaganda, manipulation, etc., and the bad guys have persecuted and/or
marginalized the good guys everywhere. 

The Palestinians should be able to return to Israel and reclaim their property to
the extent that the Sephardic Jews can also go back to where they came from. 
This could only happen as the good guys win.

Report this

By Night-Gaunt, August 17, 2010 at 8:57 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Just as with Iraq so it still is with Iran, certain people and groups want war with it and they are still working toward that action.

Report this

By Shingo, August 16, 2010 at 3:19 pm Link to this comment

By nemesis2010, August 16 at 3:20 pm
“It’s always been a political smoke screen to aid Israel’s land grab and nothing more.”

I agree that this is what a smokescreen when Israel decided to give support to it, though when it was first proposed, Israel essentially went to war with the PLO after they endorsed it.

By nemesis2010, August 16 at 3:20 pm
“Sure they do. The evidence is the mess in Palestine and Israel today.”

The origins of which began less than 100 years ago, not a millenia. By your own admission the Yugoslavia conflict dated back 50 years.

By nemesis2010, August 16 at 3:20 pm
“First, you’re not the spokesperson for the Palestinians. (Or are you?)”

No, this is based on statements, official and otherwise by their leaders.  Arafat accepted Israel and the PLO officially recognized Israel (a lot of good that did him).
Sy Hersh has reported that in a discussion with Khaled Meshaal, the leader of Hamas, said plainly that Hamas realize the state of Israel is there to stay.  There might well be fringe groups that refuse to accept reality, which will ensure they remain on the fringe and devoid of influence over the great unwashed masses.

By nemesis2010, August 16 at 3:20 pm
“Earlier you stated that the two-state solution was dead and now you’re stating that it still remains to be seen. Go figure”

I’m not suggesting it still remain, because a 2 state solution would require an agreement from both sides, and that’s not going to happen.

‘Kinda like Iran can’t build a bomb but then… yes they can… huh?”

Kinda like they haven’t, and definitely haven’t decided to attempt to do so,  so do we know they can?

Report this
rainwave's avatar

By rainwave, August 16, 2010 at 12:29 pm Link to this comment

Won’t be able to hook this fish Neme

rainwave

Report this

By ofersince72, August 16, 2010 at 12:22 pm Link to this comment

There have been artifacts of civilization found
in North America that date back 50,000 years,  that
goes against a lot of theory , doesn’t it?

Report this

By nemesis2010, August 16, 2010 at 11:22 am Link to this comment

By rainwave, August 13 at 6:32 pm

”It’s nice to know nemesis can read minds and infer that’s what I was thinking.”

Nope… I can’t read minds. Wish I could. As for inferring… everyone infers.

By rainwave, August 13 at 6:32 pm

”Did I say any of those thoughts you wrote about?”

Nope I inferred it. What else could you possibly mean? And of course I used exaggeration. You asked what would have happened had the west not been won? We all know what the liberal mindset in politically correct America is. The white man is the source of all evil.

The west was going to be won by someone at sometime and far from the fantasy of too many; the indigenous tribes here, or anywhere else in the world, did not live in a utopia. They were moving toward increasing complexity but the other parts of the world were far ahead of them technically—it was going to be conquered. In many ways the structure of indigenous life was more egalitarian and was a far better alternative to the conditions found in the English colonial settlements. What many fail to realize is that the Europeans did to themselves all that they perpetrated on others here and elsewhere. There’s no empire in history that hasn’t achieved empire through another method. We’re apes.

What the hell is an honest war? War is war… it’s ugly and it’s brutal. It’s never honest or dishonest… it’s simply war.

I’ve never seen the Pocahontas cartoon or any movie about her either.

By rainwave, August 13 at 6:32 pm

”As far as the question at hand, there could be many possibilities. I am particularly interested in the way non western cultures are invaded, pushed onto reservations or green zones then made pity on with christian missionary’s,U.N and or Washington resolutions or pepsi vending machines.”

See that? You’ve just said what you said you didn’t say! And between your first post and this one you’ve just contradicted yourself.

Western cultures are invaded. The Americas are the West! It was invaded by people east of here… over the Atlantic. You asked in your previous post what it would be like if the west had not been won. And don’t come here saying that Europe is never invaded because Europe has been invaded and was holding on by the skin of its teeth against the Eastern hordes. I reiterate: Every North, South, East and West has been conquered many times over throughout Homo Sapien rein on this rock by one group of apes or another.

Do you think that if the muhammedans were in control that we’d be any better off? How ‘bout if China or Iran were the world power… would we be better off? Look at India and think caste system and how nice it would be to be under a Hindu empire. Would you like to be under the wise management of North Korea? What do you suppose would be any different? The French are fairly laid back people now but have you an idea what they were like a few hundred years back? Perhaps we should try to reincarnate Hernán Cortéz or Pizzaro? 

The mandate for the establishment of the modern state of Israel is a U.N. mandate… as in not a U.S. Empire mandate. Thus this was not the “West” invading the east. It was world opinion in 1948 that this was the right thing to do. There’s plenty enough evil for which to blame the empire without having to make shit up.

Here’s a question for you rainwave: What do you think is one of the most eye-opening and astounding pieces of trivia about the election of Jalai Talibani to Iraq’s presidency?

Report this

By nemesis2010, August 16, 2010 at 11:20 am Link to this comment

I.

By Shingo, August 14 at 9:13 pm

”I don’t think that acknowledging that the 2 state solution is dead is dramatic.  If anything it’s a dry and mundane statement of the obvious.”

That’s basically what I said and yet when you say it, it’s mundane and obvious, and when I say it, it’s a penchant for drama. Although the fact is that the two-state solution has never been viable enough to die. It’s always been a political smoke screen to aid Israel’s land grab and nothing more.

By Shingo, August 14 at 9:13 pm

”Rubbish.  Blood feud’s don’t hibernate for millennia.”

I like that… “rubbish.” That’s so Englishy English!

Sure they do. The evidence is the mess in Palestine and Israel today. The U.S.S.R. had control of Yugoslavia for 50 years and the minute it collapsed the old hatreds that had been smoldering under the surface erupted. And who were the factions slaughtering each other? The Muhammedans and two Christian factions -all sons of the same non-existent god and all hating on one another. I do luv dat Olde Tyme Relijun!

By Shingo, August 14 at 9:13 pm

”That’s false and it clearly flies in the face of practicality.”

It might fly in the face of practicality but it definitely isn’t false. If practicality had anything to do with it, the Europeans wouldn’t have sent their Jewish population to dispossess people from land they have possessed for 2,000 + years in order not to have to deal with their own prejudices and hatreds of their Jewish population.

By Shingo, August 14 at 9:13 pm

”The Palestinians know that Israel isn’t going anywhere.  What remains to be seen is whether there will be a second state created for the Palestinians or whether the state of Israel becomes a Jewish apartheid state or a binational democratic one.”|

First, you’re not the spokesperson for the Palestinians. (Or are you?)

Second, there may be those who know and can deal with it. But there are also elements— nefarious religious/political leaders with ulterior motives—that inculcate the great unwashed masses into believing that their allah dude is going to give them the final victory and drive the infidel into the sea.

Earlier you stated that the two-state solution was dead and now you’re stating that it still remains to be seen. Go figure. Kinda like Iran can’t build a bomb but then… yes they can… huh? smile

Report this

By nemesis2010, August 16, 2010 at 11:16 am Link to this comment

II.

By Shingo, August 14 at 9:13 pm

” The Christian claim to the territory is long since dead and any Christian narrative has been high jacked by the Evangelical loons who think it needs to belong to Israel so that they can get their angel wings.”|

Well… you’re not the spokesperson for the Cristers and you obviously know less about Evangelicals than you do about Iran’s ability to produce an atomic weapon. (Although I think you know full well about Iran’s ability to produce an atomic weapon. Know what I mean?)smile

In the cristers’ book of mythology there’s a metaphoric description of what the Christians become when they accept their undead jeebus. They (gentiles) are metaphorically a wild grape vine that is grafted into the good grape vine (the Jews) which then makes them (Jews and Christians) one big happy Jew family. Notice that there is no room for the sons of Ishmael unless he—as a gentile in the eyes of his Jewish half-brothers—accepts jeebus.

As sons of Abraham, the Christians are now recipients of all those promises given by the Jews’ god who is also the head of the Christian trinity and Abraham’s god. So that makes allah, jehovah, and jeebus the same non-existent entity. Holy Zeus! What a circle jerk!

I know what you’re thinking… that is about as dumb as some guy riding a horse into space and meeting with an angel… but you go try to convince those yahoos of the crazy Evangelical right that they’re wrong. And if you think the Jews aren’t taking full advantage of that little tidbit you’re only fooling yourself. Their new brothers and sisters in Abraham are citizens of the most powerful nation on earth. And that’s just the protestants… don’t forget about that Catholic Church who sees itself as the chief representative for the undead jeebus here on the earth.


Have you ever read anything on Christian reconstructionism? Don’t think for a minute that just the Jews and Muslims have a lock on crazy.

Like the Jews, Cristers believe that Jerusalem should be 100% Jew… no place for all those Mohammedans. No rags on the head permitted… just those big black furry hats! Yesterday a bible Baptist born-again crister called in to an atheist program on the radio and declared atheists full of poop because the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948 was prophecy come true. Thus god exists!

It ain’t what you believe numb-nuts… it’s what they believe. In the evangelical mind Jerusalem belongs to them and jeebus. It’s his capital city and headquarters and there isn’t going to be any muhammedans because they are the sons of the devil –according to crister think.

Report this

By nemesis2010, August 16, 2010 at 11:11 am Link to this comment

III.

By Shingo, August 14 at 9:13 pm

” Perhaps or perhaps it will simply fizzle out into a non event.”|

Anything is possible but historical evidence points to low probability. Can you think of one thing that apes like better than going full ape on one another? Especially when they’re full of the righteous indignation and believe that god is on their side?

By Shingo, August 14 at 9:13 pm

”It seems you’re still doing battle with your paranoid delusions about Islam being a threat to Western civlization?”|

I don’t have any paranoid delusions about Islam and the threat that the adherents of Islam pose to Western civilization or anyone they happen not to take a liking too –including their fellow muhammedans. We can see the adherents of Islam in action every single day –not everyone can’t see the forest for the trees.
I can see the threat that adherents of all religions pose to civilization. But you have to admit Shitgo… at present the muhammedans… c’mon… know watta mean?

By Shingo, August 14 at 9:13 pm

”I can see that you’re white supremacy is as near and dear to you as ever was.  Yes I have read the comment, and it still only makes any sense within the context of the North American continent.  Are you suggesting that your beloved white race and the enlightenment that stokes your white pride.”|

Really Shingo? I’m a white supremacist? I can’t be a white supremacist Shitgo because I’m tainted.

I know it makes sense in the context of North America. That’s what I said and you were contesting. It also makes sense in the broader context of the European conquest of the Americas which are in the Western hemisphere. 

White pride? You can’t do any better than that Shitgo? What’s the matter… does it irk you that I don’t suffer White shame? We’re all apes Shitgo… even YOU! Although someone tried to convince me that you were more ass than ape but I told him that he should be ashamed of himself. I took up for you Shitgo.

Enlightenment is knowledge Shingo… if you are what you say you are haven’t you gained much knowledge that provides you with better opportunities in life?

Report this

By ofersince72, August 15, 2010 at 7:00 pm Link to this comment

I am tickled pink with your concern for the
Palistinians trapped inside a concentration camp in Gaza,
Cris Hedges,

  but was just wondering, the flotilla of aid that the
little criminal nation of Israel so rudely stopped was
widely known about in some circles well in advance of
the criminal acts done to them by the criminal nation,

so why was the mainstream media, (which you are a part of)
so quiet about this event for the six months prior to
its occurrance, and why weren’t any concerned media types
as yourself either on the flotilla or recording to the
public a day by day report of this flotilla progress,
I am sure that it is a possiblity that nine lives could
have been saved.

Report this

By Sodium-Na, August 14, 2010 at 7:10 pm Link to this comment

Re: Robert,August 13 at 2:06 pm.

Robert,

I join Arabian Sinbad in expressing my “Thank You” to you,for calling attention to the touching and moving story of Emily Henochowics,the 21 year old art student,who lost her left eye to an Israeli canister bullet during a protestation with other nationals against the Israeli barbaric attack against the Turkish ships,carrying humanitarian aid to the blockaded people of Gaza.

I salute Amy Goodman and “Democracy Now” for holding and conducting the exclusive interview with Emily.

I salute also Norman Finkelstein for showing the original Israeli brutality against Emily and other demonstrators on his official website.

Above all,my profound admiration goes to Emily for her determination to return to the place in which she has lost her left eye-a courageous daring,indeed,performed only by individuals of good-will.

Emily,if you happen to read this,please accept my best wishes for whatever you decide to do.

Report this

By Shingo, August 14, 2010 at 5:13 pm Link to this comment

nemesis2010, August 14 at 8:41 pm

“ Penchant for the dramatic indeed! Have you ever heard of the pot calling the kettle black?”

I don’t think that acknowledging that the 2 state solution is dead is dramatic.  If anything it’s a dry and mundane statement of the obvious.

“This is not a 60 year old terror-torial dispute. This is a many millennia long family blood feud that had a 2000 year respite due to the Romans having tired of and resolving their own “Jewish problem ” by abrogation of the Jewish—not Israeli—State and dispersion of the populace.”

Rubbish.  Blood feud’s don’t hibernate for millennia. 
“No party to this “dispute” is ever going to accept a two-state solution (other than as a guise) because all three parties believe that they, and they alone, have Divine rights to the terror-tory and they want it all.”

That’s false and it clearly flies in the face of practicality.  The Palestinians know that Israel isn’t going anywhere.  What remains to be seen is whether there will be a second state created for the Palestinians or whether the state of Israel becomes a Jewish apartheid state or a binational democratic one. The Christian claim to the territory is long since dead and any Christian narrative has been high jacked by the Evangelical loons who think it needs to belong to Israel so that they can get their angel wings.

“But make no mistake about it, that peaceful coexistence is only on the surface and below there is a caldron waiting to explode.”

Perhaps or perhaps it will simply fizzle out into a non event. 

“I hope it isn’t that “Islam is a religion of peace” bullshit.”

It seems you’re still doing battle with your paranoid delusions about Islam being a threat to Western civlization? 

“ The “west being won” is a euphemism from the movie “How The West Was Won” and deals with the White European conquest of the U.S. and in a larger sense European conquest of the Americas.”

I can see that you’re white supremacy is as near and dear to you as ever was.  Yes I have read the comment, and it still only makes any sense within the context of the North American continent.  Are you suggesting that your beloved white race and the enlightenment that stokes your white pride.

Report this

By severed2009, August 14, 2010 at 5:07 pm Link to this comment

The real enemies in Israel/Palestine, like in Lebanon, Yugoslavia, or (although
much simpler) Northern Ireland are those who wish to continue the fight until
victory is achieved, and those who want the fight to go away and are willing to
forget about the past for the sake of the future.  The latter have nothing against
living with, working with, or marrying those on the other side, and prefer them to
the victory-seekers of their own side.  The victory-seekers hold the others to be
the basest sorts of traitors and will persecute them until they become desperate
enough to accept victory as the only way to end the fight.

The victory-seekers are the bad guys.  Mohammed knew this and dealt with the
problem in a creative way, attempting to bring an end to feuding in Arabia.  His
followers betray him.  Which is par for the course.

Report this

By nemesis2010, August 14, 2010 at 4:41 pm Link to this comment

By Shingo, August 12 at 8:00 pm

”I know you have a penchant for the dramatic Nemesis, but this is not that complicated.  This is a 60 year old territorial dispute that many have confused with religion.  If those three religions involved were death cults, then the same violence would be readily observed in all states where all three religions peacefully coincide.”

A penchant for the dramatic? Moi?  Have you taken a look at all that tripe you and ITW have been spewing for days on end? Penchant for the dramatic indeed! Have you ever heard of the pot calling the kettle black?

You are correct on one point though… it’s not complicated. Apart from that just about everything you and ITW have said can be classified as mouthed sanctimonious pomposities.

This is not a 60 year old terror-torial dispute. This is a many millennia long family blood feud that had a 2000 year respite due to the Romans having tired of and resolving their own “Jewish problem ” by abrogation of the Jewish—not Israeli—State and dispersion of the populace. Anyone who fails to understand that has his head stuck up his derriere. No party to this “dispute” is ever going to accept a two-state solution (other than as a guise) because all three parties believe that they, and they alone, have Divine rights to the terror-tory and they want it all.

All three of those religions are death cults and the only peaceful coexistence they experience is in civil societies where there is a history of law and order. But make no mistake about it, that peaceful coexistence is only on the surface and below there is a caldron waiting to explode.

What kind of smoke do you plan to attempt to blow up our arses next Shingo? I hope it isn’t that “Islam is a religion of peace” bullshit.

By Shingo, August 12 at 8:04 pm

”I suspected that the original poster was referring to the Middle East specifically, in which case, the consequences of the West never having won would simply mean that the Western oil giants would be a little less wealthy than they are today.”

Well I suspect that I had it right and that your suspicion about this is as erroneous as your evaluation of the Palestine issue. I don’t think Chief Joseph or any Nez Pierce were in the Middle East. The “west being won” is a euphemism from the movie “How The West Was Won” and deals with the White European conquest of the U.S. and in a larger sense European conquest of the Americas.

Have you tried actually reading the comment? The comment was: ” I wonder what would happen if the west was never won? Please notice that it doesn’t say I wonder what would happen if the West had not won. I’ve never heard of the Middle East or Palestine being referred to as the West.

Report this
Arabian Sinbad's avatar

By Arabian Sinbad, August 14, 2010 at 8:50 am Link to this comment

By Robert, August 13 at 2:06 pm Link to this comment

I found this deeply moving:

“EXCLUSIVE…Emily Henochowicz Speaks Out: Art Student Who Lost Her Eye After Being Shot by Israeli Tear Gas Canister in West Bank Protest Discusses Her Life, Her Art, and Why She Plans to Return”

08.05.2010 | Democracy Now

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Click on ink to watch interview:


http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/i-found-this-deeply-moving/
============================
Thank you Robert for bringing to our attention the moving story of Emily Henochowicz!

In my pessimism about the Palestinian-Israeli tragedy I started to believe that this issue will only be solved when enough number of Jews, good or bad, equal to the number of Palestinians who are killed, maimed, disfigured, dispossessed and oppressed face the same fate as the Palestinians. Only then there will be an effective outcry that might wake-up Zionists from their intoxicating arrogance and terrorism.

To add perspective to this issue, let me cite few notable quotations that were unheeded in time:

1. “If it is proper to reconstitute a Jewish state which has not existed for two thousand years, why not go back another thousand years and reconstitute the Cannanite state; the Cannanites, unlike the Jews, are still there.” (H.G. Wells)

2. “The cause of unrest in Palestine, and the only cause, arises from the Zionist movement, and from our promises and pledges in regard to it.” (Winston Churchill, Hune 14th, 1921, in the House of Commons.)

3. “A Zionist state in Palestine can only be installed and maintained by force and we should not be a party to it.” (President Franklin Roosevelt, March 5, 1945)

4. “The Jewish state idea is not in my heart. I cannot understand why it is needed. It is connected with narrow-mindedness and economic obstacles. I believe it is bad. I have always been against it.”
(Albert Einstein, 1946)

Report this
rainwave's avatar

By rainwave, August 13, 2010 at 2:32 pm Link to this comment

By nemesis2010, August 12 at 4:00 pm

“How’s that for politically correct bullshit and delusion?”

It’s nice to know nemesis can read minds and infer that’s what I was thinking. Did I say any of those thoughts you wrote about? Of course there was war among the tribes and clans (bloody without hesitation, but honest)
And someone who has studied about the Cheyenne,Sioux, and Crow, (Painted Arrow,Brother People, and Little Black Eagle,) one can see that it wasn’t all Disney-ism like you think I portrayed. You assume just as much as the people who assume the west was like Pocahontas the cartoon.

As far as the question at hand, there could be many possibilities. I am particularly interested in the way non western cultures are invaded, pushed onto reservations or green zones then made pity on with christian missionary’s,U.N and or Washington resolutions or pepsi vending machines.

Report this
Robert's avatar

By Robert, August 13, 2010 at 10:06 am Link to this comment

I found this deeply moving:

“EXCLUSIVE…Emily Henochowicz Speaks Out: Art Student Who Lost Her Eye After Being Shot by Israeli Tear Gas Canister in West Bank Protest Discusses Her Life, Her Art, and Why She Plans to Return”

08.05.2010 | Democracy Now

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Click on ink to watch interview:


http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/i-found-this-deeply-moving/

Report this

By ofersince72, August 12, 2010 at 4:41 pm Link to this comment

Pat Tillman is still my hero,
  no matter how he died.
  If it weren’t for these damn resouce wars,
  today, he’d still be alive.

  They would like us to forget him,
  like his story didn’t exist.
  But I will never forget him,
  and continue to resist.

Report this

By Shingo, August 12, 2010 at 4:04 pm Link to this comment

By nemesis2010, August 12 at 4:00 pm

“For the West to never have been won would require that the White man had never existed and had the White man never existed we all know that the indigenous peoples in the land mass known today as the Americas would have continued to live in total peace and harmony with no disease, no hunger, no war.”

I suspected that the original poster was referring to the Middle East specifically, in which case, the consequences of the West never having won would simply mean that the Western oil giants would be a little less wealthy than they are today.

Report this

By Shingo, August 12, 2010 at 4:00 pm Link to this comment

“There will never be a peaceful solution in that accursed part of the earth known as Palestine until there is a blood-letting on a scale that will make the atrocities of WWII appear nothing but a training class in comparison.”

I know you have a penchant for the dramatic Nemesis, but this is not that complicated.  This is a 60 year old territorial dispute that many have confused with religion.  If those three religions involved were death cults, then the same violence would be readily observed in all states where all three religions peacefully coincide.

Report this

By REDHORSE, August 12, 2010 at 12:34 pm Link to this comment

Like you Sir-I put’em on one leg at a time and, try to call’em like a see’em. If one can’t get their own house in order—I doubt they’ll make too much of an effort to order anothers.

      True, I did present a little “red meat” (hope you enjoyed the steak), but I truly did enjoy the insight into the conflict offered by posters. I’m just saying that D.C. has put our fingers in so many bloody pies that only a major change in American politics will remove them. Huge ego and opinion ( not necessarily you) isn’t political power but even small direct political action is. Also, I’m suspicious of highly charged maudlin sentimentality.

      I enjoy your posts. You have a nice day too.

Report this

By nemesis2010, August 12, 2010 at 12:07 pm Link to this comment

There will never be a peaceful solution in that accursed part of the earth known as Palestine until there is a blood-letting on a scale that will make the atrocities of WWII appear nothing but a training class in comparison.

This is not a fight between two parties. There are a multiplicity of players and levels. The three main opponents are the believers in the three monotheistic religions and their respective governments. The principle players are Israel, the Palestinians, and the U.S.

Lesser, second tier players, are Islamic countries in the surrounding area and Europe who is the principle guilty party for having wrought this mess upon the world by having dealt with its “Jew problem”—a euphemism for European bigotry—by dumping that problem on what was basically a poor, simple, not-to-well educated, and almost totally defenseless population living in Palestine for 2,000+ years.

All three of the main players—the Jews, the Christians, and the Muslims—hate each other with a level of hatred that only religion can inspire and condone. And the religion that is the foundation of all this hate and strife is that religious system created by Bronze and Iron Age Hebrews. All three groups of adherents claim rights to that land mass known as Palestine, Judah, and/or Israel.

Thomas G. Donlan said: ”The lesson of history is that we don’t learn the lessons of history.” And nothing exemplifies the validity of that statement more than what we have seen—and continue to see—taking place in Palestine/Israel/Judah.

Those three religions are in essence death cults. What rational people view as a very dangerous and explosive situation that could eventually mean the extinction of human life on this planet is a wet dream come true for believers. The Jews and Christians presently have joined in an unholy alliance against the adherents of Islam. This will not last because of the anti-Jewish sentiment that permeates the New Testament teachings and which was the foundation of Christians’ hatred of the Jews for the past 1,700 years. When the Christians finally realize that Jews aren’t disposed to accept their messiah all hell is going to break loose and what now appears as a fight between two parties is going to quickly become an unholy ménage à trois bloodbath.

What Palestine represents is a Middle Eastern version of the mess in the Balkan States where believers of two of the three monotheistic religions enjoyed a genocidal blood-letting composed of one Islamic and two Christian elements until the U.N. had to step in and prevent believers from annihilating each other. I’ll not be surprise to see a similar solution take place in Palestine with U.N troops occupying much of the territory—and especially Jerusalem—in order to maintain the peace and keep the different parties separated. Unfortunately, this solution plays right into the hands of the Christian fundamentalists because of one interpretation of their so-called prophetic verses; namely that about the city being divided and trampled underfoot by gentiles.


This will not end pretty.

Examples of the lunacy:
http://waitingforarmageddon.com/

http://www.youtube.com/user/AtheistMediaDotCom#p/u/28/PPpdhdcWIHo

http://www.youtube.com/user/AtheistMediaDotCom#p/u/56/8rtxipmYm-4

Report this

By nemesis2010, August 12, 2010 at 12:00 pm Link to this comment

By rainwave, August 10 at 10:50 pm

”I wonder what would happen if the west was never won?”

For the West to never have been won would require that the White man had never existed and had the White man never existed we all know that the indigenous peoples in the land mass known today as the Americas would have continued to live in total peace and harmony with no disease, no hunger, no war. Before the White man there was no evil in the land and the Great Spirit walked among the real human beings and marveled at the love and the sharing and the unselfishness. Little White Dove and Running Bear could tip toe through the tulips all the day long blah blah blah blah blah blah…

How’s that for politically correct bullshit and delusion?

All of the Wests, the Easts the Norths, the Souths and everything in between of the entire planet, have always been won by one tribe of apes or another at diverse periods of Homo sapien history. Homo sapiens have always acted like the evolved apes that we are regardless of race, culture, society, religion, political philosophy, etc. There is always a ruling hierarchy that lords it over the lower classes using government and religion to keep them in line. And it doesn’t matter whether the names of the rulers are Running Bear, Mohamed, Sir Stiffupperlip, Slong Goldstein, Won Lon Dong, Hirohito Achoo, Timbuktu, Guatemoc, Hernán Rodriquez, Pope Pedo Filo IV, Reverend Ben Shtupping, or Todd Greedy… the results are always the same… more for the ruling class and their cohorts and less for everyone else.

Report this
Robert's avatar

By Robert, August 11, 2010 at 9:44 pm Link to this comment

Video / Palestinian boy upset by father’s arrest garners international media attention


Border Police arrested Fadel Jaber, claiming he and his family had attacked police who were disconnecting their illegal water connection.

By Liel Kyzer

Video footage of a 5-year-old Palestinian boy weeping as his father is arrested by Border Police officers near Hebron this week has been making waves internationally and garnering attention from media outlets worldwide.

In the clip, the boy, Khaled Jaber, chases after his father during the latter’s arrest, calling out “baba, baba.” A Border Police officer approaches the boy, takes him by the arm to separate him from his father, who is driven away from the family home”

~~~~~~~

Click on link for article & short video:

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/video-palestinian-boy-upset-by-father-s-arrest-garners-international-media-attention-1.306155

Report this

By ofersince72, August 11, 2010 at 7:26 pm Link to this comment

As the climate deteriorates into “collapse” like we

are seeing,  the International Investors are going to be

scrambling for the world’s resources not caring who or

what gets in their way.

For they have known for many years it is irreversable.
And also know that man will not be mobile in the near
future because of this. So they will be creating all
sorts of excuses to keep PERPETUAL WAR while they gather
what they can of the world’s resources.
They will make laws , like Public Law 107—40…
They will have unanimous decsion on Acts like the
Iran Sanctions and Disinvestment Act
They will be ruthless…......can’t you see,  I sure can.

Report this

By Shingo, August 11, 2010 at 6:58 pm Link to this comment

Howard,

The Israelis are also teaching racist ideals to their children, with most Israeli students having racist views about Arabs. Israel has banned text books and teaching about the Nakba in schools (ie. Nakba denial)  and as ITW has pointed out, the growing religious extremists are demanding segregation from those they consider less Jewish (ie Mizrahi Jews).

Israel cannot demand to be accepted or recognized by the Palestinians until they respond in kind,.  Recognition is a mutual process and as even Hamas have stated, what are they expected to recognize, when Israel’s borders are not defined?

Israel has always glorified terrorism.  Israel elected 2 terrorist leaders to the office of Prime Minister, has named streets in Israel after terrorists and war criminals and even celebrated the 60th anniversary of the bombing of the King David Hotel, a terrorist attack against Britain.
Hamas has stated that it supports a 2 state solution and would accept the Arab peace initiative if it was accepted by a referendum among the Palestinians. That peace initiative, signed y 22 Arab states, offers to recognize Israel as per the 1967 borders and normalize relations with Israel.

And guess what?  Israel has rejected the offer.  Obviously land is more important than peace to Israel.

The offer to Yasir Arafat has long been recognized as grossly inadequate, with Israelis foreign minster at the time, Shlomo Ben Ami, stating that if he were a Palestinians, he too would have rejected the lousy offer.
The offer to Mahmoud Abbas by Olmert was equally inadequate, as it did not address the status of Jerusalem or the refugees and still only left the Palestinians a serious of disconnected Bantustans.

The charters of both Likud and Kadima fundamentally reject a two-state solution.

Report this

By Shingo, August 11, 2010 at 4:58 pm Link to this comment

“See? You are the one who is thick as a brick and cannot see beyond his own dogma.”

Fine ITW.

I await your plan as to how Israel is going to be convinced to dismantle the settlements and hos the settelrs will lay down their wepoans and move back to the 1967 border.

Like I said, without a plan you have nothing.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 11, 2010 at 4:49 pm Link to this comment

Because we are going to have the same type leadership

that we have had the last forty years that have

perpetuated this pertetual war.

IRAN SANCTIONS AND DISINVESTMENT ACT

SENATE     99—0   Notice, Sanders, Feingold, Whitehouse
              Sherrod Brown, Barbara Boxer .et.al.
HOUSE   408—-8   Those numbers say it all.

PUBLIC LAW   107—40   calls for perpetual war
     
so now it is AUSTERITY TIME..
todays headline austerity
$24,000,000,000 cut from food stamp programs…
this will help the INTERNATIONAL INVESTORS finance this
perpetual war…and they thankyou AMERICAN PUBLIC ! ! !
(only their thanks , is more AUSTERITY for you and me…)

Report this

By ofersince72, August 11, 2010 at 4:43 pm Link to this comment

The Attack on Iran will change this scenario a lot..

but even without this attack…..

next year ,  the same debate , just a few more facts to
throw in with it.  And the year after tooooooooooooo!!!!!

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, August 11, 2010 at 4:39 pm Link to this comment

Shingo, August 11 at 8:22 pm Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind,

Talking to you is like a brick wall.  You are so myopic it’s truly mind boggling.

“You can pretend that your arguments don’t lead that way to ease your conscience, but you KNOW that there are only 4 options”

You left of a 5th.

5) A Jewish apartheid state called Israel.
********************************

Funny, I feel exactly the same way about you.  There is no fifth option.  That falls under 3) the perpetual war option, because a Jewish apartheid state without a two-state solution and without destroying the Palestinians is 3)—a perpetual war.  See? You are the one who is thick as a brick and cannot see beyond his own dogma.

Report this

By Shingo, August 11, 2010 at 4:22 pm Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind,

Talking to you is like a brick wall.  You are so myopic it’s truly mind boggling.

“You can pretend that your arguments don’t lead that way to ease your conscience, but you KNOW that there are only 4 options”

You left of a 5th.

5) A Jewish apartheid state called Israel.

I am not pretending there is another solution, in fact, my argument is that there isn’t one.  There is only get it?  Please, just step out of your Zionist psychosis for a minute and get a grip.  The 2 state solution is dead.  There is no 2 state solution if there is no possible means to implement it.  I have asked you repetaely, how you plan to remove teh settlers, and returnt Israel to the 1967 border.  Without a plan,  your 2 state solution is pure fanasy.

The only ones holding a candle to the 2 state solution are delusinal liberal Zionists. Ironically, it is the right wing in Israel who are speaking openly abot a single binational state, though amiteedly, their real agenda is probably quite siniter.

“Ordinary Israelis and Jews around the world are ALREADY fighting back against Likud.”

On the contrary, no one is fighting back against Likud.  What is happening around the world is that ordinary Israelis and Jews are abandoning Israel and distancing themselves from Israel. No one is taking on Likud.  Netanyahu’s grip on the state is like vice and he is moving it rapidly towards a fascist state.
“The government was FORCED to drop its plan to give control of ALL conversions both inside Israel and abroad to the Ultra-Orthodox”

Has that plan actually be dropped or is it still being debated?  I was under the impression it was still up in the air.

“The rabbi of the synagogue my family goes to sent out an email calling for everyone to protest to Netanyahu—that’s the FIRST time he’s EVER done anything but call for support for Israel.”

Good for him, but I doubt the efforts will lead anywhere.  There are plenty of rabbis in Israel who support the conversion policy and I dare say, they have a lot more influence.

The ADL may not be valid and I agree that it does not represent the majority of Jews, but hasn’t that always been the case?  The same could be said for AIPAC, but unfortunately, there organizations have very powerful benefactors who are in lock step with Likud.  In fact, they are to the right of Likud.

“ Even now the shuls of the Reform, Conservative and even Modern Orthodox are appalled by the blatant attempt at a power grab by the religious fanatics.  Yet you seem to think all Israelis and Jews are OK with this.  They are not.”

I never said they were, but the religious fanatics definitely have the loudest voices and what’s most disturbing is that the trend is not a new one, but has been a gradual one, which suggests it’s not just a temporary aberration.

“Likud is doomed to fail.  Netanyahu is doomed to fail.  Their ONLY hope is continued attacks from the outside…an enemy, an “other” to hate and fear.”

I agree 100%.  They are doomed to fail because their ideology is unsustainable, but the question is, how much damage will they do to Israel in the mean time? Every Israeli leader, with the exception of Rabin, to perpetuate external enemies, both real and imagined.  Netanyahu is no renegade in that regard.

Report this
JDmysticDJ's avatar

By JDmysticDJ, August 11, 2010 at 2:39 pm Link to this comment

Well, I’ve just composed a cutting and clever response to your smug little comment, but I think posting it would be counter productive.

Good luck in all your endeavors, when suiting up, make sure you don’t put your pants on backwards.

Have a nice day!

Report this

By ardee, August 11, 2010 at 12:00 pm Link to this comment

Howard, August 11 at 11:48 am

Of course many Palestinians teach their children to hate the aggressor, just as Afghans and Iraqis teach their own kids to hate and fear Americans.

Your unreasoning diatribe stems from blind loyalty to the nation you view as a “homeland” and fails utterly to consider the huge disparity in casualties, mentioned elsewhere in this thread ( and thanks to the poster who searched them out).

Your opinion of the events that follow a two state solution are just that,your own opinion and cannotbe considered either factual or likely. Where I wonder will the new state of Palestine obtain these mighty rockets to destroy every city in Israel when all they manage now are a few ancient and inaccurate ones that miss the targets?

Report this

By REDHORSE, August 11, 2010 at 11:38 am Link to this comment

The revolving special interest D.C. political door, blurred the line between representative government and corporate financial economics long ago. Key spooks and shadowmen take their instruction and make their decisions based on the desires of those who placed them. The best interest of “We the people—” is incidental.

    Corporate feudal intrique, bribery,double/triple agents, informers and assassins control military and political decisions—not you. Isn’t most middle eastern tribal political loyalty based on baksheesh?. Their money is their money and your money is their money. That’s how fascist greed operates. They are hogs, the American future is their trough, and many aren’t even Americans. Your desire and reality is being subsumed and dictated by theirs.

      The Israel/Palestine conflict is a manufactured economic reality and a huge profit center for certain individuals on both sides. Posters comments here, on the human tragedy, death, suffering and political machinations of the front men is well thought out and deserves voice. Thank you!!

      Again, you can’t do one thing to change it, until you regain political control of your own destiny. If the plight of the manufactured economic warzones and prison landscapes destroying Black America, the destruction of our educational system, our looming bankruptcy or the countless other catastophes, that spring directly, from the soaked to the bone political corruption and human immorality that defines our Federal Government won’t make you act, I doubt you’ll do anything, other than shed those warm, buttery, maudlin tears for Palestine.

      Suit up or shut up!!

      Top of the morning Gents and Ladies.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 11, 2010 at 10:09 am Link to this comment

That is why many of us voted for an indepentent

in the 2000,  2004, and the 2008 , presidential

elections… To avert this disaster that we find ourselves

in right now…...perpetual war….

We have watched this forever…and knew that sooner or
later,  the mask of democracy would have to come off to
support this perpetual war….now it has$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
GET USED TO AUSTERITY…..................................

Report this

By ofersince72, August 11, 2010 at 10:00 am Link to this comment

And also,  Americans are going to keep voting for

Democrats and Republicans that sponser this perteual war.

Because Americans a nation of ignorant puppets that are

very easily led, and listen to the MSMs for their news

and read dumb propaganda papers.

  It will be the Austerity measures that finally wake

the Americans up,  but it will be tooooo late…..

And that is where we are now, in the AUSTERITY because

those that own our debt say we have to be to support

their perpetual wars.  for the $$$$$$<<<>>>$$$$$<<<<>>>>$$

Report this
JDmysticDJ's avatar

By JDmysticDJ, August 11, 2010 at 9:58 am Link to this comment

Thanks to Shingo and Misterioso for refuting the ignorance and lies, and to Inherit The Wind for providing an enlightened Jewish perspective on the issue. Shingo and Inherit The Wind are closer in their goals than they realize, but they distort each others statements, which only further illustrates the difficulties involved in bringing a peaceful conclusion to the conflict.

The battle against injustice, institutional and ideological cruelty, and “non-humanity” is fought on many fronts. Confronting militarism with non-violence as Hedges is advocating, and participating in, is extremely valuable as a means of bringing the cruelty to the forefront of debate, but refuting the lies perpetrated during that debate is equally important in order to build political support for ceasing the cruelty. Should those who disseminate lies, myths, and propaganda in support of the cruelty remain unopposed? I think not, to the contrary, the lies must be exposed.

Anger at the perpetrators and supporters of these injustices and cruelties is understandable, and forgivable. The consequences of these cruelties are very real in human terms, and well documented and quantified, but ignored and distorted by the supporters of these cruelties and injustices. When these supporters and perpetrators of the cruelty are confronted by the reality of these evidences, their only defense against these documented and quantified cruelties is to blame the victims for the sufferings and the atrocities perpetrated on them by others.

As a way of pointing out the inequities, I’ll point out that a total of 24 people have been killed by rockets coming from Gaza since the year 2000, those rocket attacks were in no way justifiable, from a pacifistic perspective, but those rocket attacks were in response to provocations. The argument that these rocket attacks provided the justification for the indiscriminate killing of nearly 1500 Palestinians in Gaza, 60% of them women and children, shows the “non-humanity” of those who accuse their victims of being less than human. The “non-humanity” has been evident on both sides of the conflict, but the preponderance of the “non-humanity” has been perpetrated by a technologically advanced and institutional aggression which has demonstrated sufficient “non-humanity” to elicit criticism from the nations of the world, in the form of dozens of United Nations Resolutions, resolutions that were ignored and vetoed by minority authority. To be more specific, Tens of thousands of non-Israelis have been killed since 1920 as a result of the Middle-East conflict, while a reported 2,500 Israelis have been killed in the conflict since 1920. In addition many analysts of events in the Middle-East and South West Asia attribute the Middle-East conflict as being a primary factor in the wars that have occurred in that area of the world which have resulted in the deaths of millions, totally destabilized that area of the world, and threaten world peace. It seems clear, to some, that the magnitude of current difficulties must be diminished, at the least, and that the escalation of current difficulties must be reversed, but those who are the supporters of State terrorism or an obstacle to these goals.

Collective punishment and indiscriminate killing are abhorred by people of good character, but not by the supporters of State terrorism. The victims of State Terrorism are to be blamed for their victimization by those who support and justify State Terrorism. In addition those who identify and seek to combat State Terrorism are condemned as being pro-terrorist, by implication, by those who are the supporters of State Terrorism.

The Middle-East conflict has been disastrous even by the most conservative analysis, but those who argue the justification for, and the continuance of State Terrorism and apartheid oppression, and seek to identify “lesser-humanity,” need only to look in a mirror.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 11, 2010 at 9:54 am Link to this comment

And they are going to keep the Arab/Iraeli
conflict festering, and festering, and festering, for
just one of their many reasons for their perpetual war
states.

  And they will keep the bickering up, like what is going
on here, for ever and ever and ever, about what is the
best solution….
because of
>>>>>>>$$$$$$$$$<<<<<<<<<<>>$$$$$$<<<<<>>>$$$$$$<<<>>>$$$$

Report this

By ofersince72, August 11, 2010 at 9:48 am Link to this comment

And to make sure that perpetual war is the
order of the day….we have….

P U B L I C   L A W   1 0 7—40


and as long as that public law is on the books,
perpetual war….......$$$$$$$$$$>>>>>>$$$$$$$$<<<<<<$$$$$

Report this

By DE Teodoru, August 11, 2010 at 9:47 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Chris Hedges tells us the obvious: the hands of the killer who massacring Arab parents shake in fear realizing that orphaned children will grow up NOT so helpless. It doesn’t end there as Zionist killer recalls that the Jews he spits on as “parasites in the goyim world” and calls cowards because they choose assimilation rather than abandoning their roots in the Diaspora. Zionists were EastEuros rightly fed-up with their treatment at at hands of fellow EastEuros; so they moved to Palestine only to treat Palestinians as they were treated by EastEuros, if not worse. I say “worse” because 75% of World Jewry chooses to stay in goyum-land rather than go to Jew-land, clearly liking it more in goyum-land. Indeed, many in Jew-land get fed up and move to goy-land in far greater numbers than Diasporics who move to Jew-land. Why? Because a Jew can be a Jew in goy-land and in Jew-land he can’t….he can only be a Zionazi aping the Nazis that massacred his EastEuro parents. Israel is a vicious corrupt racist state now. Anyone who has any doubt I invite to study the history of the Mideast’s Mizrahi Jews at the hands of the Ashkenazis, the Zionists (most of whom deem their “Jewishness” as race not religion for they are atheists).  To get Mizrahis to leave their Arab homelands the Ashkenazis engaged in sabotage to create suggestive “proof” so Mizrahis would be blamed and would have to flee to Israel. The Ashkenazi’s sought to create an Arab Krystalnacht so Mizrahis would have no choice but to flee to Israel. And then, once in Israel, the sterile Ashkenazis stole their children, lying to the desperate parents that their children were lost, so Ashkenazis could them as their own. To reverse hemorrhage of Jews leaving Israel to live by the Jewish Ethic in Diaspora as normal Jews—and to try to achieve Sharon’s deadline of 2020 when all Jews must move to Israel, Zionists are trying to create an American Krystalnacht that will stampede in fear all Diaspora Jews to the Zionist’s “promised land” in order to populate “Greater Israel,” the Jew-land with Diaspora Jews.


Manifestation of their Holocaust psychosis produced guilt and gilt, no more. Even telling “Eurabia” that Israel’s nuclear missiles are pointed at Europe’s cities to avenge the old Holocaust if Israel were overrun scares no one, for Europe needs use only one missile to terminate the tiny threat. So the killer who killed in fear starts to wonder if copying the Nazis is really possible when your motivation is fear. The next time Israel attacks Lebanon it may find it hard to retreat to its “safe” zone. So what to do?

Be brave, real Jewish mensch, and count on the Jewish Ethic to pull you through to a fair peace instead of a Holocaust. But Zionazis can’t do that when so afraid, killing in fear….when damned afraid because of what they did….So be courageous for peaceand you’ll stop being afraid as peace trumps even revenge—a lesson the Zionazis never learned.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 11, 2010 at 9:35 am Link to this comment

The perpetual war option that you speak of ITW

is the option that the powers that be will keep…......

Is that not obvious to you yet????

Report this

By omygodnotagain, August 11, 2010 at 9:27 am Link to this comment

Shingo well put, and Colin 2626262 you ask a very good question. I have one too, if this action were to happen would the media here cover it. I very much doubt it.
The problems rests in the US, we have allowed 5th columnists to take over our media and political parties.  To get them out it will require a purge as they won’t go quietly, or for Jews with conscience to rise above their primitive tribalism and speak out.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, August 11, 2010 at 7:54 am Link to this comment

I do not want anyone to be annihilated. Get it?  I don’t want a single death to happen from this day forth.
Are you getting it ITW.  I don’t want Israel to be harmed. 

********************************************

You say this yet like a lemming you keep running over the cliff to the inevitability. 

You can pretend that your arguments don’t lead that way to ease your conscience, but you KNOW that there are only 4 options:

1) The destruction of the Arab states around Israel.
2) The destruction of Israel
3) Perpetual war
4) The Two-State solution

You can keep your head in the sand and pretend SOMEHOW there is another solution, but there isn’t.  Since you obviously reject 1) (As do I), and 4), that leaves only 2) and 3) for you.

You’ve painted yourself into a corner and now cry “But I don’ wanna kill anybody!”  Maybe not, but you are enabling those who advocate annihilation, and are smart enough to know it, but just can’t look in the mirror and admit it.

Ordinary Israelis and Jews around the world are ALREADY fighting back against Likud.  The government was FORCED to drop its plan to give control of ALL conversions both inside Israel and abroad to the Ultra-Orthodox, who planned to DISALLOW all conversions performed by Reform or Conservative rabbis, thus dis-enfranchising the vast majority of world Jewry.  You think if they try that contributions won’t dry up?  Hah!

The rabbi of the synagogue my family goes to sent out an email calling for everyone to protest to Netanyahu—that’s the FIRST time he’s EVER done anything but call for support for Israel.

If it weren’t for the outside threat, there’s a damn good chance Israel would be in a civil war.  The Chasids are anti-democratic, racist, (they don’t think the Sephardic Orthodox are good enough for them) and think NO Jew who isn’t just like them is good enough.  They don’t think my marriage or the conversion of my adopted son is valid.

And more and more Jews around the world know this.  The ADL isn’t valid—it’s Meir Kehane’s organization, and he was as fascist as any of the ultra-Orthodox.  He openly said Israel couldn’t be a democracy, it had to be a theocracy, without freedom, just adhesion to Jewish Law as interpreted by….HIMSELF!

It can’t continue.  Even now the shuls of the Reform, Conservative and even Modern Orthodox are appalled by the blatant attempt at a power grab by the religious fanatics.  Yet you seem to think all Israelis and Jews are OK with this.  They are not.

Likud is doomed to fail.  Netanyahu is doomed to fail.  Their ONLY hope is continued attacks from the outside…an enemy, an “other” to hate and fear.

Report this

By Howard, August 11, 2010 at 7:48 am Link to this comment

The Palestinians continually teach their children
that they must never accept the existence of Israel.
Media controlled by the Palestinian Authority in the
West Bank regularly undermine any idea to accept
Israel alongside a future Palestinian state. They
glorify suicide bombers, quote Muhammad as saying
that Jews must be killed, accuse Israelis of
poisoning and spreading AIDS among Palestinians, deny
that the Holocaust happened, and claim that Jews
never had a history in the land. Moreover, the other
Palestinian territory - Gaza - is governed by a
group, Hamas, that is outright in declaring that it
will struggle until Israel is gone.
After years of Israeli buses being blown up, after
the refusal by Yasir Arafat to accept a peace in
which nearly all of the West Bank and Gaza would
become a Palestinian state, and after Arafat’s
successor, Mahmoud Abbas, refused concessions that
were even more generous, many Israelis concluded that
no concession would ever be enough.
  The main peace plan to end the Israeli-Palestinian
conflict aims at a “two-state solution.” But,
Israelis ask, why would any sane person believe that,
two weeks or two months after a Palestinian state
were to come into being - a state that would abut the
length of Israel’s narrow waist as well as Jerusalem
- rockets wouldn’t be flying over its border and
blowing up in every Israeli city and airport?

Report this

By Shingo, August 11, 2010 at 6:18 am Link to this comment

“Israel wants peace and has said Many times a 2 state solution has been the goal and desire( since 1947)”

False.  Every one of Israel’s political parties include in their charter the explicit denial of the prevention of a Palestinian state. 

Camp David was a joke, with the Israeli foreign minister at the time, Shlomo Ben Ami ,stating that if he were a Palestinian, he too would have rejected the pathetic offer.

Only recently, a video tape was released with Netanyahu admitting he sabotaged the Oslo accords.

“The media in the West Bank to this very day, continues to print, broadcast that Israel is to be eliminated and destroyed.  Hamas makes no bones about the same goal.”

False on all counts.  Hamas have stated their commitment to a 2 state settlement since 2005 and have removed the call for Israel’s destruction from their manifesto in 2006.

“There will be no peace until the pal people put in leaders who will be willing to have a genuine peace.”

Wrong there will be no peace without justice.

Report this

By Howard, August 11, 2010 at 6:11 am Link to this comment

Israel wants peace and has said Many times a 2 state
solution has been the goal and desire( since 1947) 
The Pal’s media and schools and mosques continue to
mislead their people , just as their country brothers
in Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and Iran, who
started the armed conflict in ‘48 have abandoned them
except in lip service only.
  The media in the West Bank to this very day,
continues to print, broadcast that Israel is to be
eliminated and destroyed.  Hamas makes no bones about
the same goal.
  There will be no peace until the pal people put in
leaders who will be willing to have a genuine peace.

Report this
AMeshiea's avatar

By AMeshiea, August 11, 2010 at 5:44 am Link to this comment

Shingo

I don’t think I have seen such a tireless and consistently rational poster such as yourself on this
issue anywhere. You should be commended for
relentlessly speaking the truth without becoming
rabid in the face of arguments that are so tired and
hollow (like “the two sides are just as bad as each
other” when we have an asymmetrical situation, or the
usual Islamophobic ones).

Bravo, and you should get a bigger forum to shoot
down more of these types.

Report this

By Shingo, August 11, 2010 at 5:14 am Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind,

It never ceases to amaze me how you can read an otherwise simple argument and somehow decipher in your mind that it contains any suggestion of calls to annihilate Israel.  I respect you man, but sometimes I wonder if Zionism causes it’s adherents to suffer psychotic episodes.

I have just stated very plainly that had Israel been forced to comply with international law, Israel would still remain.  It would just be a little bit smaller, due to falling within 1967 borders. How the hell is that supposed to be a call for Israel’s annihilation?

I did not state that I don’t support a 2-State solution. I just don’t believe it’s going to happen.  You know it too.  The Israeli people haven’t realized shit ITW.  If anything, they are digging themselves further into their bunker mentality and becoming increasingly paranoid. 

When Obama gave his Cairo speech, which was a soft ball to Israel, his approval in Israel sank to single digits…and all he did was ask them to stop expanding settlements. He didn’t even mention anything about dismantling them and moving the settlers back to Israel proper.  And we’re expected to believe in your fantasy that Israel is going to have a massive social epiphany and chance 180 degrees?
You are absolutely deluded.

Get this through your head ITW.

I do not want anyone to be annihilated. Get it?  I don’t want a single death to happen from this day forth.
Are you getting it ITW.  I don’t want Israel to be harmed. 

So at least you accept that “the insane reactionary religious fanatics now controlling Israel”.  That‘s a good start.  Now explain to me how that control of Israel by the insane reactionary religious fanatics is going to end?  Their power and influence is increasing not waning. How long is it going to take and what will be left of the occupied territories that could possibly serve as a Palestinian state when they are finally out of business?

The schools with the largest funding are the religious schools.  Even the secular Israelis are sending their children to them because they are so well funded.  And what do you think they are teaching their students? That’s right, history based on the Bible.  You know that that means?  It means that the next generation of Israelis, religious and secular are going to believe the same shit.

And even if byh some miracle, they were to lose power, are they going to go quietly?  Do you have a clue ITW?  Israel will descend into a civil war before it can remove the settlers from the OT.

Yes I saw that post from the woman who lost her brother to Hezbollah and a was deeply touched by her story and her immense humanity.  She didn’t elaborate on the circumstances surrounding her brother’s death, but if it took place during the 2006 Lebanon war, then I am not surprised that SHE no longer understands why this war goes on and on.  What were Israel trying to achieve by attacking Southern Lebanon if Hebollah were the target? On the other hand, those in southern Lebanon are in no doubt that the war was about fighting back the IDF from invading their country.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, August 11, 2010 at 4:48 am Link to this comment

Shingo,

You continue to argue yourself into a corner: and that corner is that Israel needs to be annihilated and there is no other solution.

The intellectual masturbation is your trying to find a way around that very Rwandan “final solution”.

Unlike you, I do NOT argue that the Palestinians or all Arabs need to be annihilated, and I STILL believe in the 2-State solution.  When the Israeli people realize that Likud and Netanyahu not only do NOT represent them, but represent the very Jews who OPPOSED the founding of Israel, and throw them out, then peace MAY be possible again, without destruction of either side.

You make my point again and again: There can be no peace as long as both sides stick to their own creation myth and “God’s Will” myth.

You argue for Israel’s total annihilation knowing full well the US and Europe, as well as the Israelis themselves won’t allow it.  It’s nice and safe to argue for it on “high moral grounds” when a) you know it won’t happen because b) if it did happen there would be the immediate slaughter of every Jew in Israel—the 900lb gorilla in the room that you keep avoiding.

Notice I do NOT argue to defend the IDF’s actions or the actions of the insane reactionary religious fanatics now controlling Israel (who are not too different than the Islamic leaders in Iran).  I’m arguing against a “my side/your side” mentality that you are by your blinders locked into.

No, the war HAS lost its meaning.  If you saw in one post here, one woman lost her brother to Hezbollah. I’m sure you don’t give a shit for her or her family’s pain, but had you read it, you would have seen that SHE no longer understands why this war goes on and on.  Do you think that the Arab woman who lost HER brother to the IDF is so radically different?

It’s not that the death and killings have lost their pain—it’s that both sides inflict it when there IS another alternative that neither will face.

For those whose minds are still at a 6th grade level, my discussion of both sides seeing their side as angels and the other as devils is NOT a direct quote of anybody (Sheesh, how can people be so f’ing dumb?) It’s rhetorical.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 11, 2010 at 2:56 am Link to this comment

Truth Dig,,,  think about it,  it won’t take you
long to figure it out.

Hey Rico,  I haven’t told you of
an accomplishment for a few days,

In 1987,  I met two cabinet
members of the Sandinista Govt.
They were very nice , well educated
people.  The Education Minister, and
I can’t remember what the other one’s
title was

Report this

By truedigger3, August 11, 2010 at 1:46 am Link to this comment

offersince72 wrote:

“It should be obvious to anyone that has followed
the Irsael and Arab conflict for at least forty years, that the International Investors do NOT want this conflict resolved.”
__________________________________________________

offersince72,

I agree with you 100%, but I am not sure why “THEY” don’t want it resolved. There are many possibilities and probabilities but it is obvious that “THEY” don’t want it resolved.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 11, 2010 at 12:45 am Link to this comment

However,  there is nothing that the U.S. citizens
can do about this because…..

  IT IS NOT OUR MILITARY,,  WE JUST PAY FOR IT ......

and this military does not belong to Capitol Hill either
they just appropiate money for it….

and it does not belong to the president either….
he just gets to have the lofty title of
Commander In Chief…....
This military for a very long time (i will just go back
as far as 1946) belonged to the INTERNATIONAL INVESTORS
that use it to secure resources…..
As Zappa pointed out,  now that it has become to
expensive to have the “democracy” look here in the U.S.,
the curtain is down and we can see the brick wall in back
of the theater.
SO NOW it is our turn for AUSTERITY for the International
Investors…........$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Report this

By ofersince72, August 11, 2010 at 12:37 am Link to this comment

The oppressive Saudi government would fall overnight
without U.S.  military support
  The oppressive Egypt government would fall overnight
without U.S.  military support
  The oppressive Isael government would fall overnight
without U.S.  military support
  The opressive Kuwaiti governmet would fall overnight
without U.S.  militarty support
  The puppet Iraqi government would fall overnight
without U.S. military support
  The puppet aristocracy of Jordan would fall overnight
without U.S.  military support

Report this

By ofersince72, August 11, 2010 at 12:27 am Link to this comment

The Middle East hardly had any BORDERS before the
Western Powers, of Germany, England, France, the US of A
and a couple more

  Came and drew their lines in the sand and put their
own names on the countries.

  And continued to stir unrest while they stole resources

Report this

By ofersince72, August 11, 2010 at 12:04 am Link to this comment

The Truth Dig poster DBM , on another thread
reminded me of an event that proves no one wants this
peacefully resolved.

  The United States telling Yeamen that their NO VOTE
for the aggression against Iraq would be the most costly
vote they ever cast.  And it has proven to be so.

  Desert Storm,  the United States had to buy off, at
U.S. taxpayers cost, Syria, Turkey, Egypt, Jordon
and others in order to get the coalition of the willing.
It cost American Taxpayers billions to get that support.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 10, 2010 at 11:42 pm Link to this comment

It should be obvious to anyone that has followed
the Irsael and Arab conflict for at least forty years,
that the International Investors do NOT want this
conflict resolved.

It creates great diversion around the world.

It would be very easy to resolve.
demiliterize and disarm all involved, there is enough
power in the international community to do this.

Then get all Western Powers and Russia out of their affairs,  Then the Jews and Arabs would become brothers
again just as they were before the Western Powers
began their colonializaion of the Middle East.

Report this

By Shingo, August 10, 2010 at 10:51 pm Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind,

Sorry buddy, but your argument is pretty lame.  Everyone sucks so we shouldn’t blame the Israelis because the Arabs would be just as bad if the roles were reversed.  Of course, even if that were true, it is entirely irrelevant.

This is a matter of international law, human rights and justice.  Regardless of who holds the power, and who are angels and devils, they must be forced to observe international law and international treaties.  Forcing Israel to do so would not require any side being exterminated.

You’re absolutely right, I no longer believe in a two-state solution, not because I don’t support it, but because Israel has made a two-state solution impossible. Only a delusional ideologue would still cling to the belief that 2 states are possible short of a major revolution.  It would require an extremely brave leader (some would argue one with a death wish) to take on the settlers movement and relocate the settlers.  Netenyahu just stated that merely extending the settlement freeze (which was an illusion anyway) would divide the country.  If that is even remotely true, what would a dismantlement program do to Israel?

“There comes a time when the war you are fighting no longer means anything, when the war itself is the enemy, just a tool by the PTB on both sides to control you”

That’s the kind of intellectual masturbation one can afford to indulge in when the people you care about are not being killed.  I can assure you that for those who’s family members are being incinerated by US supplied munitions, the meaning of the war is abundantly clear.

Report this
bookmark dofollow's avatar

By bookmark dofollow, August 10, 2010 at 9:15 pm Link to this comment

This is a beautifully written and heart-reading article.  It brings a lump to the throat and tears to the eye.  Our deepest emotions are stirred as ‘we become part of a unity of suffering humanity’ stretching over time, space and belief. 
Is its purpose to appeal to the better instincts of murderers and killers, dedicated only to self-interest and their own long-term dominance?  Is its purpose to avoid backlash from those who suffer? 
Sadly, there is little evidence that those who murder and kill in order to gain dominance over others and secure their own future share these emotions, or are sufficiently influenced by them to modify their behaviour. If it were so then articles of this kind would be unnecessary.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 10, 2010 at 9:10 pm Link to this comment

Not once did I see Shingo comment

Arabs are all angels and Israelis are all devils.

However,  I am sure that shingo expected, you
Inherit_the_Wind , to sooner or later put an
Administration spin on the plight of the Palistinians.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, August 10, 2010 at 8:26 pm Link to this comment

See, Shingo?  You are SO blinded that you missed the point…you are one of those saying that the Arabs are all angels and Israelis are all devils…and the ONLY way to end it is to exterminate one side or another (and your preference is to exterminate Israel, which you see as a totally criminal state, founded on a criminal premise.)  I no longer believe that you believe in a two-state solution. 

That’s not a lie.  That’s the inference from all your statements.

But that’s OK.  Many of the defenders of Israel are equally guilty of the same blindness.

But you and they are ALWAYS going to try to shut down any voice of reason with a million arguments about why YOUR side are angels and the other side are devils.

Meanwhile, the ordinary people on BOTH sides suffer as they are played as pawns by Hamas and Likud both, as well as their “allies”.  I don’t think many of them care anymore about 60 year old charges and counter-charges. They just want their kids to grow up without guns and bombs and intimidation from both sides.

There comes a time when the war you are fighting no longer means anything, when the war itself is the enemy, just a tool by the PTB on both sides to control you…Like Orwell’s eternal war by Oceania against either Eurasia or East Asia—whichever Big Brother decided that week was the eternal enemy…

Report this

By Shingo, August 10, 2010 at 7:45 pm Link to this comment

By Inherit The Wind, August 10 at 11:20 pm

“Same old, same old.”

Yes ITW, some things never change.  We still have poverty, inequality, injustice, wars, racism, etc.  Israel happens to encompass all of the above.

“Is it any wonder it can’t be solved and on BOTH sides, both actually REALLY only believe it can be solved by the extermination of the other side?”

No, because that would be a lie.

NEITHER side in power believes in a true, two-state solution, and anyone who says otherwise is a liar or a fool.”

I see, so it’s not the Israeli’s fault that they are stealing land, ethnically cleansing the Arab population, building settlements, and attacking it’s neighbours, it’s that the became the more powerful side through no fault of their own.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, August 10, 2010 at 7:20 pm Link to this comment

Same old, same old.

“Israel is racist and fascist and lying, trying to tell us the Arabs, who are angels, are really devils.”

“Arabs are racist and terrorists, trying to tell us the Israelis, who are angels, are really Shaitan’s minions.”

There are a few voices of reason, who are ignored.  And a few out-and-out screwball nuts.

A microcosm of the real world and the of the actors in the comedy/tragedy.

Is it any wonder it can’t be solved and on BOTH sides, both actually REALLY only believe it can be solved by the extermination of the other side?

NEITHER side in power believes in a true, two-state solution, and anyone who says otherwise is a liar or a fool.

Yes, there are many on both side who want a two-state solution, but they don’t have power.  The ones who do don’t want it with every fiber of their being.  They dream of the Caliphate or Greater Judea, addicted to the drug called POWER.

Report this

By TheHandyman, August 10, 2010 at 7:18 pm Link to this comment

Eliss, you are full of it! Go into any class in a public school system and you will find that everyone is not equal. If you were born into a poor family you come to the table hungrier than the child who is born into excessive wealth. Of course that child isn’t there because they are in a private school. The poor child comes into the class with a vocabulary a;ready 1,000 words short of the middle class child. I could go on but any one who has read anything in the field of education would know that your premise is ridiculous. There is a reason why poor children seldom succeed and why rich children hardly ever fail and it is about the money. Govt exists to look out for the general welfare of all people. I wonder if you think that violent revolution to strip the rich of the excess they have essentially stolen from the poor is better than having a govt do it for the good of all. The old Prosperity model of the world as decreed by Christian charlatans to justify their own rape, pillage, and plunder of their flock is a lie. To even suggest that God favors some of his creation over another merely says that the great mythical creator is every bit as venal as some of his creations! The reality is that even if we all started out equal in every way some of us would succeed and some would fail. That is the way life is set up. But civilized people have no problem with helping the people who fail through no fault of their own but merely the vagaries of Life. Barbarians? Well that is an altogether different matter!

Report this
rainwave's avatar

By rainwave, August 10, 2010 at 6:50 pm Link to this comment

“Hear me, my chiefs, I am tired. My heart is sick and sad. From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.”
—Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce-After a long battle with the US Calvary

I wonder what would happen if the west was never won?
———-

As for the Israelis, victimization still turns feverishly from past atrocities. Its like a black blob deep in the belly of its conscious, turning and releasing toxic sludge. The only difference between Pine Ridge Indian Reservation and Tel Aviv is we don’t give billions to the relocated Indian or F16….

Report this
rico, suave's avatar

By rico, suave, August 10, 2010 at 6:01 pm Link to this comment

Besides Ellis. What does any of that have to do with Gaza?

Report this
rico, suave's avatar

By rico, suave, August 10, 2010 at 6:00 pm Link to this comment

Ellis:

All right already. Give it a rest. We get it. You think equality means equal money for everybody. You keep saying the smart guys are rich and the stupid guys are poor, and it’s morally imperative for the rich guy to give the poor guy money so we’re all “equal”. But if I were smart I would have figured out that the rich guy is going to give me money, so why should I work? Let the stupid sucker work and get rich, then write me a check. We’d all be “equal”. You have it completely backwards: The smart people game the system. The stupid ones do all the work.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 10, 2010 at 4:20 pm Link to this comment

And of course,  you have to consider the BALLOT BOX
itself.

  One doesn’t need to go any farther than right here
in the good ole U.S. of A.  to see how controlled
elections can get….

I guess we need an international election monitering
committee all over the world, especially for the
U.S. elections
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Report this

By Shingo, August 10, 2010 at 3:54 pm Link to this comment

Go Right Young Man,

Militants is a term that is used by both Israel and the US to describe those who refuse to participate in the political process.
 
You and I have already covered rocket attacks.  Israel enjoyed a period of 4 months with none in 2008 but chose to end the ceasefire, so you can drop that failed argument.
Iranian weapons do not need to be elaborated on.  The weapons that provide Hamas are very basic WWI era weapons that are ineffectual and useless.

The ocean of oil wealth surrounding the West Bank and Gaza is entirely irrelevant to the discussion and about as relevant to Gaza as it is to Israel.  The wealth belongs to other countries, though Israel certainly has it’s eye on the gas fields off the coast of Gaza.  Something more for them to steal no doubt.

Ironically, you are right on the money in describing Gaza as a cruel lab experiment in the Middle East, though what you fail to realize is that it is Israel who are conducting the experiment.  Jonathan Cook, the journalists based in Palestine, has described Gaza in this very way. You might rec all how Sharon boasted about how he would put the people on Gaza on a diet.

When Israel withdrew from Gaza, it left behind a scorched earth policy, destroying homes, orchards, greenhouses and firing 7,700 artillery shells into Gaza over a period of 10 months. As Idith Zertal and Akiva Eldar doscumented in their scholarly document, “Lods of the Land”,

“After Israel withdrew it’s forces from Gaza, in August 2005, the ruined territory was not released for even a single day from Israel’s military grip, or from the price of the occupation that the inhabitants pay every day. Israel left behind scotched earth, devastated services, and people with nearly a present or a future. The Jewish settlements were destroyed in an ungenerous move by an unenlightened occupier, which in fact continues to control the territory and kill and harass it’s inhabitants, by means of it’s formidable military might.”

So you see, Gaza was never released by Israel.

Hundreds of millions of dollars are a fraction of what Gaza needs, especially given that Israel has destroyed over ten thousand homes there in the last attack and continues to strangle the territory.  Israel after all, received ten times that much money from the US alone, billions from other countries and still relies on huge donations pouring in.

Israel’s MFA has acknowledged that Hamas are not firing rockets into Israel.

Hamas support a 2 state solution, all the accords that the PA signed with Israel and supports the Arab Peace Initiative that 22 Arab states have signed, offering to recognize Israel and normalize relations.

It is Israel that has rejected all of the above.
In 2006, Israel removed the call for the destruction of Israel from it’s manifesto.

Suggesting that Hamas counts on the fact that its own losses will be characterized as a “holocaust” is a typical vile and racist Zionist slur.  It’s also a very hypocritical one, seeing as Israel and it’s supporters supporters are only too happy to exploit the tragedy of the Holocaust to milk every dollar they can from European countries.

You see, Hamas has already proposed a truce with Israel. Mubarak will never accept normal relations with Hamas, because it would require him to legitimize the Muslim Brotherhood, which he fears.

If you want Hamas to swear off Iranian-Hezbollah aid, then you need to stop outlawing aid to Hamas.  You can’t have it both ways.

Hamas would love to rebuild infrastructure, ensure security, and recruit foreign capital, but all of that is impossible while under siege and blockade.  How predictable that you failed to mention that Israel is imposing a criminal and murderous blockade of Gaza.

Yes, it has been a extremely cruel experiment (on Israel’s part). Jopseph Menegele would be proud.

Report this

By Shingo, August 10, 2010 at 3:32 pm Link to this comment

randyjet,

“Thank you for proving my point about you. You lack any rational capacity for thought. That you cannot see Hamas atrocities in plain sight in front of you shows your problem.”

Again, defining rational thought is not your forte, so try to avoid that if possible.  Rational though does not include making up your own facts, refusing to cite links to back up your assertions, and reading things from a report that aren’t there.

Your obsession with Hamas atrocities, while refusing to even consider the Israeli ones, which are an order of magnitude greater, expose you quite plainly.  You are no liberal,  you’re a part time liberal.  When the subject of Israel is mentioned, you become another coherent, blithering necon.

You’re a liberal in the same way that Joseph Liberman is.
“I guess you were also opposed to the US in WWII and occupying Germany and Japan. Given your views.”
So you’re also illiterate.  Did you not read my statement that I am opposed to invasion an occupation?

“ Sorry, but I am not one of your kind.”

Indeed we already established that.  Like I said before, you are an Islamophobe, and a vile little racist.  You’re also anti intellectual, and a Zionist, so indeed, you are not one of my kind.

Report this

By Shingo, August 10, 2010 at 3:18 pm Link to this comment

rico, suave,

You ask an interesting question, though without any concept of the inherent irony:

“How much better to be in a democracy where you can fight the powers that be at the ballot box rather than be a helpless pawn in a tyrannical regime which answers to no one but itself?”

And how much better would it be if the US wasn’t supporting so many of those tyrannical regimes tpoday?

Report this

By REDHORSE, August 10, 2010 at 1:45 pm Link to this comment

It’s nice to feel all warm and buttery inside in the name of Christian compassion and “tweet jeebus”  without actually taking a tear gas cannister in the face or being crushed by a ‘dozer. Napalm and phospherous make one warm and buttery too. But, from the outside in. Perhaps our insane hubris and loss of American soul was first reflected in the A-Blast at White Sands when Oppenheimer quoted the ‘Gita (paraphrase):”—behold we have become as Gods and the destroyer of worlds—”. Ike told us it was comin’, it’s our personal history, and we haven’t learned a g#dda#n thing. 

      I respect Hedges voice, courage, and the dues he paid as a journalist. Posters passion and insight (and I read’em all) into the conflict are great. Still, like every other bloody unjust realm of greed born chaos that’s come to suck the meaning and emotion from our lives, the will and opinion of “We the people”, and the means to apply the power of change seems far removed from our hands. That the perps use our ever dwindling hard earned tax dollars to fuel this, a thousand other insanities and our own destruction, is an outrage. In short, they’re cutting your throat with your own knife.

      OFER is correct. It is the shadow boys. A vil doesn’t get hit, a rocket doesn’t get fired, a headman isn’t assassinated, without the O.K. from the spooks (on both sides). Sometimes the troops get out of control, the press uncovers a mass grave or a stray rocket kills the wrong people in the wrong way, but hey, that’s blowback and that’s what the spin machine is for. The #@cks are crazy. They kill each other. You’re on the list, just further down.

      Look, bad s#@t is just down the road. It’s a flat out ambush. Like the Palestinians, whom you cannot raise a finger to save, you’re being criminalized. Slow criminalization of its citizens is how police states ascend. That’s what the Patriot Act is. It’s that nice man/woman at the airport saying: “Excuse me Sir/Madam, please step out of the line. You’ve been selected for a random serach—”. You are a threat being marginalized and bankrupted. Your economy is being looted for the paranoid megalomaniacal private interests of the worlds financial elite. It’s power, guns, money, oil, real estate, indentured servitude and the coming seizure of natural resources. That’s all Israel/Palestine is about. Their lives and your life matter not a penny. It’s economic imposition of new world control. It’s not something else. Democracy and “We the people—” are the real “inconvenient truth”.

    Save your tears for the Palestinians. Maybe, you can support a local foodbank or join an outreach for newly released prisoners in your own community, join a political action group or meditate on the vote. All move you up on their list. Your best bet is to save yourself.

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, August 10, 2010 at 1:22 pm Link to this comment

Mr Hedges speaks on the issue of the Arab/Israeli conflict and I am always struck by the things he does not say.

There are no terrorists, just militants. Not much about past rocket attacks on Israel–most everything on the crowded conditions of Gaza. Iranian weapons is rarely elaborated on; stories about quiet Arab support for defanging Hamas are likewise rare; common is the buzz about protests in Europe. Never a mention of the West Bank and Gaza surrounded by an ocean of oil wealth while the Palestinians are willfully kept in abject poverty. In reaction, I jotted down the following random thoughts.

Gaza as Monte Carlo, perhaps Hong Kong, or is it to be Switzerland of the Mediterranean?

Gaza is a sort of cruel lab experiment in the Middle East. Recall for a minute: the Israelis withdrew en masse, a so-called “retreat” that reverberated all over the Middle East. The West supported free and open elections that gave Hamas their legitimacy, such as it was. Gaza is strategically placed on the Mediterranean with a prime shoreline. It borders Egypt the traditional center of the Arab world. Hundreds of millions of dollars of Middle-East oil money, and Western relief donations have poured into the tiny state yet never an industry is built.  Never a textile factory for jobs and prosperity.

The result?

Hamas with its serial rocket attacks on Israel interprets all of the above not as an opportunity for prosperity, but as a stage one for the great accomplishment of its generation—the absolute destruction of the Jewish state. Its agenda is clear and unambiguous, and apparently shared by millions of elites in the West itself, without whose support Hamas could not exist. The common theme of Western press coverage is the misery of Gaza, never the misery of Gaza as a product of the garrison-state mentality of Hamas’s radical Islamic vows to wage perennial war against Israel.

The Enablers

Hamas counts on the fact that its own losses will be characterized as a “holocaust” and appear comparable in the Western media to something like Darfur or the slaughtering in Zimbabwe, or the usual carnage that we wake up to on the news. Take away Western press attention from Gaza, and Hamas is just another violent, illiberal regime that impoverishes its own people while seeking victim status in the West.

Is that too harsh? I don’t think so. Again, if it were to authentically mandate a truce with Israel, seek normal relations with Egypt, and swear off Iranian-Hezbollah terrorist aid while it sought to rebuild infrastructure, ensure security, and recruit foreign capital, then there would be no more world attention, and its cadres of hooded youth would lack the pizzazz of “militants.”

Mr. Hedges says much. As far as I am aware he has never spoken out about how and why Liberal “caring” Westerners aid Arab nations in keeping the Palestinians living in the most horrible poverty for decades on end.

It’s an extremely cruel experiment.

Report this

By nemesis2010, August 10, 2010 at 12:10 pm Link to this comment

Ahhhh! The monotheistic ménage à trois! YHWH-ALLAH-JEEBUS! The “chosen” children of the Bronze and Iron Age Hebrews’ psychopathic desert god; who can argue that god is love?

This isn’t anything. Wait until the children of YHWH’s undead zombie son show their true colors and turn on the Jews. It’s only a matter of time. That’s when the real fun will begin. Blood up to the horse’s bridle for hundreds of miles… that’s what gives all those followers of Jeebus an erection the size of the Empire State building!

Death on a massive scale for make-believe entities! Who can ask for anything more? 

It’s no coincidence that the troubles in this article involve three 21st century theocracies.


@ Ellis:

Forgot to take your meds again, heh?

Report this

By gerard, August 10, 2010 at 12:10 pm Link to this comment

You say: “the more intelligent mammals overpower those slower of thought or all animals would soon be extinct.”
  Cheer up, Eliis.  At the moment it appears that, due to the efforts of “the more intelligent mammals” all animals will soon be extinct.
  What I personally would like to overpower is this crazy “higher of thought” suicidal impulse to destroy and to permit destruction, all the time dressing it up as “God’s will.”

Report this

By randyjet, August 10, 2010 at 10:16 am Link to this comment

You’re nothing but a vile little racist, and likely a Zionist to boot.  It’s little wonder that you’re an apologist for mass murder, ethnic cleansing, apartheid and concentration camps.  You would have made an excellent Nazi role model. You wouldn’t happen to live in Israel would you?

Thank you for proving my point about you. You lack any rational capacity for thought. That you cannot see Hamas atrocities in plain sight in front of you shows your problem.

I am a long time liberal and precinct chair in the Democratic Party, and was in the civil rights movement, and anti-Vietnam war movement, and a veteran too.

I guess you were also opposed to the US in WWII and occupying Germany and Japan. Given your views. I think that there are progressive movements that have to be fought for, arms in hand at times. I can only imagine your type at Vicksburg during the civil war and telling Gen Grant that he is a BEAST for starving all those poor folks. Sorry, but I am not one of your kind.

Report this
rico, suave's avatar

By rico, suave, August 10, 2010 at 10:05 am Link to this comment

One theme I noticed in the earliest posts to this thread, “ardee” being one of the clearest examples, was the sense of the posters that their participation in a democratic society connected them to the actions of their governments. It was the source of their shame. Rachel Courie herself was explicit about the guilt she felt as a particpant in the “genocide”.

How much better to be in a democracy where you can fight the powers that be at the ballot box rather than be a helpless pawn in a tyrannical regime which answers to no one but itself? I think it is excellent that ardee and others feel that personal connection to their government, albeit negatively. And it is why we should be very circumspect about giving our government too much power over our lives.

Report this

By yours truly, August 10, 2010 at 9:15 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

(every day more apparent)

Gaza And the Warsaw Ghetto

same place

different time

while the world stood by

genocide

live

Report this

By ofersince72, August 10, 2010 at 9:11 am Link to this comment

God died a long time ago,  it was FRANK ZAPPA.

Report this

By balkas, August 10, 2010 at 9:03 am Link to this comment

Ellis,
I am not searching for evidence that yahweh, god, or allah exist.
I am not looking for evidence that these three gods do not exist.

However, i can see-hear and find evidence that their respective subjects are mortal enemies amongst themselves and of people who evaluate that their gods do not exist.

Yes, i am in trouble living with such people! tnx

Report this

By Night-Gaunt, August 10, 2010 at 8:58 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

By NIKHILANANDA, August 9 at 5:04 pm Link to this comment
“and chris hedges says the people on the ship were unarmed!.... that is a blatant, false LIE!”

A double negative renders it positive or it is repetative since false & lie are synonymous, “false LIE” and along with that you didn’t prove your point, you left it hanging so I will finish it for you.

A few pistols and knives were found, not an arsenal in boxes, just the normal compliment for the crew, that is you “blatant” you could’nt prove. But for that 9 people were exicuted, 3 shots to the head.

Running out of time on computer.

Report this
Ed Lytwak's avatar

By Ed Lytwak, August 10, 2010 at 6:32 am Link to this comment

This “discussion” is having a hard time getting beyond the “he said, she said” level because of a failure to make a simple yet important distinction.  The Palestinian, Israeli, and American people are different from the state/governments that control them. Yes, some of the people (for whatever reason) have supported these political leaders in allowing them to exercise state power, but it is the so-called leaders on every side that have betrayed their sacred trust. 

And for each of these peoples hope, change and peace are not going to come from the top - in fact the current governments and political leaders are the greatest obstacle to peace and all are intent in maintaining the status quo.  None of these peoples, Palestinian, American, or Israeli have a cultural history of militarism, totalitarianism or barbarism, yet this is path that their so called “elected” leaders have led them on. 

That is why true peace and real change is going to have to come on a cultural (not nation-state) level.  That is why we as Americans, Palestinians and Israelis must as Ramzy Baroud has said move beyond violence and nonviolence to resistance as a culture.

Report this

By Shingo, August 10, 2010 at 5:13 am Link to this comment

Yes kerryrose,

This must be what they mean when they say that the US and Israel share the same values.

Report this
kerryrose's avatar

By kerryrose, August 10, 2010 at 5:08 am Link to this comment

Excuse me for veering a bit off topic, but here is an example of the US illegally harming a child.

The US is in violation of international law here on so many levels.

Check it out:
http://www.care2.com/causes/politics/blog/child-to-be-tried-at-gitmo/

Report this

By Richard Witty, August 10, 2010 at 3:18 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

A great title and great themes. Compassion in practice.

Will you realize it?

I assume that when you meet members of Hamas or Islamic Jihad, or PFLP, or Al Aqsa Martyrs, you also name names.

From 2000 - 2005, there were close to 800 incidents of attempted bombings, including a large minority that were suicide bombings, directed solely (with no pretense of military significance) at civilians (public buses, cafes, train stations, hotels, shopping malls, etc.)

The accompanying commentary was not of the theme “stop hurting our people, we desire to live and let live”. The theme of the commentary was “LEAVE”.

There is no excuse for the horror of revenge for that by Israel, however formulated.

To end the cycle of aggression, it takes careful use of words, intentionally avoiding language that is also a euphemism for violent “resistance”.

Your words are appealing to me in a way, and repugnant to me in a way.

Report this

By Judy Weismonger, August 10, 2010 at 2:53 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Wait! I am supposed to feel sorry and take time out of my day, for a group of people who do not have the intelligence or empathy to work out their own problems?!

Are you nuking futs?

When I read such garbage as this…meant to make me feel not just sorry for this crowd, but to take on their guilt and even be a part of the guilt….

....then I understand why I have become a social Darwinist…and know for an historical fact, that no one can do a dang thing to stop this tribal warfare.

Such “wars” between tribes have been ongoing for the last 4 million years, ever since bipeds began walking on two legs, and picked up a club and began bashing others in the head and stealing their meat.

I refuse to feel sorry for this crowd. I say let them fight out as all other tribes have done through the millenium…but, my bet is on the Israelis…who are a much smarter “tribe” in the Middle East.

Report this
thebeerdoctor's avatar

By thebeerdoctor, August 10, 2010 at 2:38 am Link to this comment

Despite all the existential angst being exhibited here, the truth of the matter, being a United States citizen, I advocate a complete cessation of economic and military aid to Israel. It is suppose to be sovereign country. Let them practice their murderous policies without any U.S. tax payer assistance. The same can be said for all the other brutal authoritarian regimes the U.S. government sees fit to support, because of their “strategic” importance. The solution is visible, but many refuse to see it: Stop giving these bastards money.

Report this

By Igelle Elias Terhemen, August 10, 2010 at 1:06 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Taking the courage to identify the right names is one way solution to bringing everlasting peace to the Mdille East. The position of America in in this conflicts is disturbing espercially for a country i use to hold in very high esteem, a country that has motto “IN GOD WE TRUST” let the New AMERICAN change its policy in the Midle East and go for real peace talks than to make friends in killing . We ah me rgrate dearlly this facts.

Report this

By colin2626262, August 10, 2010 at 1:06 am Link to this comment

It’s a great speech.  I especially liked the part that showed pacifist tendencies.  These are powerful words.  However, powerful words don’t have much power unless they’re backed up by powerful actions - or simply actions that are in accord with the words.  So if someone is talking about “pushing up against your navy and your army, with nothing but our bodies” in order to prove “that the force of morality and justice is greater than hate and violence,” that has to be something that happens in reality and not just in an eloquent speech.  In other words, do you practice what you preach?  Are you willing to go get killed, avoiding all forms of violence including even the thought of hatred or anger in your heart?  If you’re not, if you don’t want to die nonviolently for the Palestinian cause, maybe you shouldn’t be giving speeches about it.  Other than that, great speech, Chris.

Report this

By Shingo, August 9, 2010 at 11:42 pm Link to this comment

randyjet,

part 1 of 2

It can now be confirmed that you really are out of your mind, but you have taken cherry picking to a new art form. 

“Go to page 5 of the article to see that incident along with the reported FACT that Hamas was using illegal bullets in shooting Fatah troops.”

So let’s see.  You managed to skip over the previous 4 pages that document how the coup ‘s planning and execution began in November 2006, and the fact that on page 1, it states explicitly that both Hamas and Fatah were already engaged in violence against one another.

And while I do appreciate the comic relief, it would be really amusing to hear you explain to us what the meaning of “illegal bullets” is. 

So let’s see hat page 5 says:
“In mid-May, with Dahlan still absent, a new element was added to Gaza’s toxic mix when 500 Fatah National Security Forces recruits arrived, fresh from training in Egypt and equipped with new weapons and vehicles.”

Now we know why you are so gutless and cowardly to avoid providing a quote.  I would also add that there is no mention of “illegal bullets”.

Thanks for the laugh anyway.

“The article also shows clearly Abbas did NOT go along with the plan proposed by Rice and Dummy.”

It states that Abbas didn’t have the guts to go along with it and that Rice and Bush bypassed him and went directly to Dahlan, a Fatah operative.

“Shingo also ducks the question as to which side was he on in Afghanistan.”
I don’t recall ever being asked that question, but in response to your desperate attempt to change the subject, I am opposed to all invasions and occupations.  The Soviets killed over a million Afghanis, and thus it’s no surprise that you were cheering them on.  I bet you geatly enjoyed watching brown people turned into pink mist.
“ Hamas is a fascist organization since they are based on Sharia law”
That’s the 4th time you’ve asserted that they are fascist, while failing at every time ot explain what makes them fascist.

“advocate total subservience of all members of society to the dictatorship of the mullahs”

Really?  Would you care to name any Mullah’s in Gaza?

“ are exclusively Muslim which takes the place of party ideology, to name just a few features.”

Report this

By Shingo, August 9, 2010 at 11:38 pm Link to this comment

Part 2 of 2

So are you opposed to religious exclusivity or just Muslim exclusivity?  Are you opposed to a state being identified as exclusively Jewish?

“Not to mention the characteristic of doing what the Nazis called Kinder, Kirche, Kuche to women.”

Oh I see, so you’re opposed to women being forced to observe traditional roles in society? Does that mean that you are equally disgusted with the same conditions being imposed on Haredi Jewish women in Jewish orthodox communities?

“ It obviously is not the classic fascism of Germany, Italy and Spain within a developed captitalist state.”

So what definition of fascias are you referring to?  And when I say definition, I don’t mean one that you’ve just made up.

“All are subsumed under the needs of the Islamic state and no individual rights are allowed apart from the state. Is that enough?”

No because a) you’re wrong about those conditions existing in Gaza and b) you made the definition up.

You’re nothing but a vile little racist, and likely a Zionist to boot.  It’s little wonder that you’re an apologist for mass murder, ethnic cleansing, apartheid and concentration camps.  You would have made an excellent Nazi role model. You wouldn’t happen to live in Israel would you?

Report this

By randyjet, August 9, 2010 at 11:14 pm Link to this comment

Go to page 5 of the article to see that incident along with the reported FACT that Hamas was using illegal bullets in shooting Fatah troops. The article also shows clearly Abbas did NOT go along with the plan proposed by Rice and Dummy.

Shingo also ducks the question as to which side was he on in Afghanistan. Hamas is a fascist organization since they are based on Sharia law, advocate total subservience of all members of society to the dictatorship of the mullahs and Shura, are exclusively Muslim which takes the place of party ideology, to name just a few features. Not to mention the characteristic of doing what the Nazis called Kinder, Kirche, Kuche to women. It obviously is not the classic fascism of Germany, Italy and Spain within a developed captitalist state. Trade unions are forbidden and no independent workers organizations apart from the state are allowed. All are subsumed under the needs of the Islamic state and no individual rights are allowed apart from the state. Is that enough?

Report this

By marc rogers, August 9, 2010 at 10:55 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Chris Hedges writes with a pungent pen but wields a very circumscribed sword. While his observations on the Israeli- Palestinian conflict have elements of truth, his fixation, if not his obsession, seems to be solely, if only, on Israel.

No where else in his prolific writngs receives the same censure, the litany of vitriolic screeds and the sheer lexiconal venom as does Israel.

The logical conclusion thus does not have to be drawn, written or stated.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 9, 2010 at 9:46 pm Link to this comment

I thought everyone knew that the United States
and Israel were nothing more than the hired gunslingers
for the INTERNATIONAL INVESTORS.

  In America they don’t even bother with their false
pretense anymore.  Just administer austerity to the public

  The Israeli citizens will eventually get their
austerity too.

  While both governments round up the resources of
other nations all around the world.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 9, 2010 at 9:28 pm Link to this comment

And they don’t care about you either Randy

or Fatah, or Hamas, or the citizens of Israel that are
locked behind a wall, or American citizens,

They don’t care about you , me, or anybody but the
finance kings they represent.

Report this

By Shingo, August 9, 2010 at 9:18 pm Link to this comment

randyjet,

Do yourself a favor and avoid using the word fact in your posts, because nothing you’ve
stated is anything close to factual. You haven’t provided any argument for whyHamas is
fascist, sibit’s certainly not a fact. On the other hand, the Zionist terror groups that
founded Israel received arms abd aid from fascist groups in Italy affiliated with the Nazis.

I’m still waiting on your explanation for what makes Hamas worse than Fatah or Istael
other than the fact you hate Islam.

“I guess that you were for Carter and Reagan supporting the mujhadeen against the
Soviets too.”

Your ignorance continues to amaze.  Brzezinsli has admitted that the US vegan
supporting these groups before the Soviets even invaded, as a means to draw the
Soviets into a quagmire that would bleed the USSR.  

“The difference is that the IDF got slapped down for violating the rules of warfare, but
Hamas is PROUD of doing it and vows to continue doing so.”

Listen,no one is going to take you seriously if you insist on making shot up as you go
along. I’ve asked you repeatedly to back up your assertions with hyperlinks. 

So you have a choice, either provide a link that quotes a Hamas leader saying they are
proud of violating the rules of war or admit you are a liar.

Deal?

“ The fighting started as the article described it when Fatah trainess returned from Egypt
and they were fired on by Hamas fighters”

Absolute rubbish.

Quote the passage that makes this claim. 

“I am still waiting to hear about all the different political parties being allowed to exist in
Gaza.”

Sure. You’ll get that after you cite the declaration by Hamas that other political parties
are banned in Gaza.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 9, 2010 at 9:18 pm Link to this comment

Don’t worry Randy,

The United States and Israel are going to pound
the world into oblivion to prove your dumb point.

Report this

By randyjet, August 9, 2010 at 8:56 pm Link to this comment

The fact the Hamas is an Islamic fascist fundamentalist group is NOT irrelevant any more than Nazi Germany was a fascist state. Just because we killed milliion more Germans and Japanese in WWII did not transform them into victims and their politics irrelevant.

I guess that you were for Carter and Reagan supporting the mujhadeen against the Soviets too. I never knew that those folks were progressives or that so called progressives would be in league with them. I supported the Soviet regime not because I thought that they were great people, but because they were a FAR more progressive force in Afghanistan in the long term. That their opponents were Islamic fundamentalists DID make a great deal of difference.

The difference is that the IDF got slapped down for violating the rules of warfare, but Hamas is PROUD of doing it and vows to continue doing so. The fighting started as the article described it when Fatah trainess returned from Egypt and they were fired on by Hamas fighters. That is not starting a coup. I also recall the justification used by Kerensky to outlaw the Bolshevik party in the July days. The Bolsheviks were accused of attempting a coup then. I guess you like the idea of pre-emptive wars like W Bush too. Hamas just shot down their opponents, and justified it.

I am still waiting to hear about all the different political parties being allowed to exist in Gaza. Maybe you could enlighten me and send me a list of those folks who are still alive and functioning politically.

Report this

By TheHandyman, August 9, 2010 at 8:30 pm Link to this comment

There are civilized people and there are barbarians. They are easily identifiable. Just read through these posts and they are all there to see. They present their opinions, their distorted versions of actual events, twist words to suit their POV and justify the unjustifiable! They think that firing one rocket that hits no one or does any damage justifies bombing, strafing, using white phosphorus, or merely just bulldozing people and their houses. One only has to look at the comparisons to tell who the real barbarians are in this situation. Five Palestinians are killed for every Jew from 2000 to 2008. From 2008 to present the ratio is 14 to one. The number of Jewish homes occupied by Palestinians…0! The number of Palestinian homes occupied without purchase by Jews, 18,345. The number of Jewish homes bulldozed by Palestinians…0. The number of Palestinian homes bulldozed by Jews…17,290. The amount of military aid the US gives Palestinians….0. The amount of military aid given to Israel…$7 million per day!
The acres of Palestinian land taken and settled by Jews…845,856. The acres of Jewish land taken and settled by Palestinians…0! The number of Jews forced to live in a ghetto by Palestinians….0. The number of Palestinians forced to live in ghettos…practically all of them!

There are all the other facts that the barbarians conveniently forget of just don’t know about like about how Israel came to be. About those heroic Jews who are now revered as freedom fighters but in reality were terrorist every bit as bad as Al Qeada. There is the attack on the USS Liberty. The attack and invasion of Egypt by Israel instead of the other way around.

I could go on but I am long past the point where I have time to argue with people who are willfully and proudly ignorant. They are the ones who read this kind of article and instead of feeling moved and hopeful they start spewing all the justifications of hatred and place the plame on the victim.

I’d like to point out to the person who said that the person who mentioned that the passengers on the aid carrying ship were unarmed as a lie, you obviously did read the interviews of the passengers who stated that the “weapons” shown by the Israeli govt. as weapons used by the passengers were tools taken from the engine rooms and knives from the ships galley by the IDF. They were never in possession of the passengers. Even the Israeli govt admitted it doctored and spliced the tapes to make it look like the troops were being attacked when they weren’t. The Israeli govt has become pathological in its lies. Any people who would knowingly elect a convicted war criminal as their leader has surely lost all moral center. When even moderates take to the streets to cheer the hijacking of ships and the murder of peaceful protesters something is terribly wrong. I remember when the PLO hijacked a ship and killed Jews. If it was wrong for them, why isn’t it wrong for the Jews to do the same thing?

It is time to withdraw all US aid to Israel and stop putting our country at risk for supporting a people who are so hell bent on self destruction! Maybe they will think twice if they know their big brother won’t save them from an ass whipping!

Report this

By Misterioso, August 9, 2010 at 8:22 pm Link to this comment

Shingo

These Hasbara puppets are in shock as they witness Zionism’s edifice beginning to crumble.  It’s only a matter of time.  The avalanche of truth is unstoppable. Day by day, Israel is becoming the “odd man out” around the world, a pariah state.  It could only be thus.

Report this

Page 1 of 2 pages  1 2 >

Newsletter

sign up to get updates


 
 
Right 1, Site wide - BlogAds Premium
 
Right 2, Site wide - Blogads
 
Join the Liberal Blog Advertising Network
 
 
 
Right Skyscraper, Site Wide
 
Join the Liberal Blog Advertising Network
 

A Progressive Journal of News and Opinion   Publisher, Zuade Kaufman   Editor, Robert Scheer
© 2014 Truthdig, LLC. All rights reserved.

Like Truthdig on Facebook