Whoever reads this, where do you stand on the issue of honesty and fairness? We should all play by the same rules, and be judged the same way, shouldnt we?

Or does being a Leftist entitle you to a free pass?  I would like someone to be honest. Even if all you would do is say, “yes i expect Leftists to not be judged by the same rules that we apply to you conservatives. Thats at least honesty.

So here are the first few sentences from the Truthdig article by Eugene Robinson(with some of my highlighting in bold type):

Not all overheated political rhetoric is alike. Delusional right-wing crazy talk—the kind of ranting we’ve heard recently from washed-up rock star Ted Nugent and tea party-backed Rep. Allen West—is a special kind of poison that cannot be safely ignored.

Let me be clear: I’m saying that extreme language we hear from the far right is qualitatively different from the extreme language we hear from the far left far more damaging to the ties that bind us as a nation. Tut-tutting that both sides should tone it down is meaningless. For all intents and purposes, one side is the problem.

When Eugene says the language is “qualitatively different” he isnt just saying that the far right uses extreme accusations more often. Unfortunately he went out on a limb and claims that the Left NEVER uses extreme poisonous accusations.

As Eugene says “Let me be clear”.  I think we need to start with honesty. Thats all I ask for. Why is that so hard to find here?

Everyone wants to wring their hands about the ‘Right Wing Bully Machine”... but the premise is quite dishonest. Especially when you read stuff written here on Truthdig. Everyone is satisfied with dishonesty as the foundation of the conversation?

Here is my view: If you cant be honest about something so patently false, then you certainly cant be trusted to tell the truth about anything.

If you arent going to be honest and play fair,then what good is all your chatter and smart remarks? Even if you happen to find people dumb enough to listen to your hypocrisy for while, they will eventually realize your game.

Whoever reads this, where do you stand on the issue of honesty and fairness? We should all play by the same rules, and be judged the same way, shouldnt we?

Or does being a Leftist entitle you to a free pass?  I would like someone to be honest. Even if all you would do is say, “yes i expect Leftists to not be judged by the same rules that we apply to you conservatives. Thats at least honesty.

So here are the first few sentences from the Truthdig article by Eugene Robinson(with some of my highlighting in bold type):

Not all overheated political rhetoric is alike. Delusional right-wing crazy talk—the kind of ranting we’ve heard recently from washed-up rock star Ted Nugent and tea party-backed Rep. Allen West—is a special kind of poison that cannot be safely ignored.

Let me be clear: I’m saying that extreme language we hear from the far right is qualitatively different from the extreme language we hear from the far left far more damaging to the ties that bind us as a nation. Tut-tutting that both sides should tone it down is meaningless. For all intents and purposes, one side is the problem.

When Eugene says the language is “qualitatively different” he isnt saying that the far right uses extreme accusations more often. Unfortunately he went out on a limb and claims that the Left NEVER uses extreme poisonous accusations.

As Eugene says “Let me be clear”.  I think we need to start with honesty. Thats all I ask for. Why is that so hard to find here?

Everyone wants to wring their hands about the ‘Right Wing Bully Machine”... but the premise is quite dishonest. Especially when you read stuff written here on Truthdig. Everyone is satisfied with dishonesty as the foundation of the conversation?

Here is my view: If you cant be honest about something so patently false, then you certainly cant be trusted to tell the truth about anything.

If you arent going to be honest and play fair,then what good is all your chatter and smart remarks? Even if you happen to find people dumb enough to listen to your hypocrisy for while, they will eventually realize your game.

Report this

This is sounding like a battle between Fox News and MSNBC…

Pissin’ matches are not the same as discussions.

Leefeller says i am taking the thread off topic:

in this case the Ozerk fetish word of the day seems to be accusation.  Ozerk do you have a point besides the one on your head?

Yes, i think i do. If you would be so kind as to listen…

Leefeller also said:

Of course all this Ozerk stuff on the wall, is to make sure we never discuss the article about Almondo Boy Nugget and right wing bullying!

Well, lets discuss the article! Here is the first sentence of what Eugene Robinson said:

Not all overheated political rhetoric is alike. Delusional right-wing crazy talk—the kind of ranting we’ve heard recently from washed-up rock star Ted Nugent and tea party-backed Rep. Allen West—is a special kind of poison that cannot be safely ignored.

Actually, I might agree with Eugene. I wonder if Leefeller does? If Leefeller agrees then we can should take a hard look at Right Wing Bullying.

But if Leefeller agrees that accusations of fascism and communism are ‘poison’... why does he applaud those accusations when Leftists make them? If it is a special kind of poison that cannot be safely ignored why does Leefeller himself make the ‘fascism’ accusation? Not once or twice, but regularly! Twice a day.

How can Leefeller say he wants to discuss the article when he is ignoring the whole point of the article?  He obviously has very little interest in what this article is saying about how such talk is a special kind of poison that cannot be safely ignored.

Either we can safely ignore the poison or we cant. Which is it?

What must be understood is that i never make these decisions. I pretty much just observe and react. I have always played by your rules. I will change how I play when you change the rules.

So its up to you, completely up to you Leefeller. This is your either/or moment. Either the overheated accusations that bully the opposition are just fine. In that case discussing the article is hypocrisy and we both know it.

Or 

The overheated accusations that bully the opposition are poison. In which case you will have to drop the poison from your posts on Truthdig. Then we can discuss the article seriously because we agree with its premise.

You are free to choose either way. Its your call and i will go along with whatever you want. Its always been that way. I wonder if you knew? Let me just remind you that you are perfectly free to use the ‘fascism’ accusation every day and even twice a day if you want to. Or you can say that you were wrong to do it. I will go along with either decision. Just like I always have. I am actually very flexible. I can be very nice or I can be tough. Just like you are.

But here is what I wont do. I wont play the game of calling Right wing talk “Poison” while you indulge in the same “Poisonous” talk yourself. That is quite a bit of freedom for yourself but chains for me. I dont want to play that game. Not with you, not with anyone.

Well Ozerk, mission accomplished you have single mindlessly Highzerked Robertson’s article, by making accusations about accusations. You deserve a standing Raspberry award for inaneness while having such a small mind tied behind your back at the same time, making me feel; reading your tripe; feel like a voyeur on the Masochism of attempted logic!

Oops I forgot to add the article that the last two Leefeller posts came from:

http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/mohandas_gandhi_nonviolent_crusader_sexual_weirdo_20110327/

Meanwhile, Leefeller did put up a defense of sorts:

Let me make it clear Ozerk, I do not speak for the left, the right or the third member, I only speak for myself, well you seem to speak for me also?

I guess I dont speak for anyone but myself either. However, my view of politics tends to identify me as a conservative, and your view of politics tend to identify yourself as a liberal.

Actually you can to paint yourself as a moderate if you like, but then you really prove Eugene Robinson wrong! He thinks that name calling and bullying only comes from the far Right? Boy was he wrong! Not only do far Leftists use the fascist accusation, but sweet independent moderates like yourself use the “fascist” accusation. And you do it alot!

Poor Eugene. Leefeller is ripping his article to shreds.

I said that there is a “fascist” accusation on Truthdig every day. Leefeller wants proof.

Before I provide more proof, i might upgrade my remark. I am finding that there are often least TWO fascism accusations by the far Left on Truthdig every day. Just tracking Leefeller alone, i sometimes find two accusations in one day. Pretty often. And he is a very careful guy. Not the worst by any means.

Well, here is yet another ‘twofer’ by Leefeller.

By Leefeller, March 30, 2011 at 7:03 pm

Mannie,

Sadly for the rest of world and those of us who do not happen to have a proclivity to demand putting the screws to the populist, I believe these conservative ass holes have a half life of nuclear waste!

The simple fact the normal people in society want to live their lives in peace and not be in constant fear from attacks, but not from Al Kada (spelling} , but from

the brown shirted conservatives, this smacks of McCarthy absolutism, destroying peoples lives and controlling people for demented pet peeves as assinged by their benefactors.

I think the conservatives are sick and even hate themselves and judge others as them selves.

After watching that pretzel head governor moron in Ohio rubbing his hands together with climatic glee after the Labor mural was taken down, shows a sort of demented conscription seemingly abnormal!  (unless I am the abnormal one?)

Labor is now a dirty word?

and another post on the same thread on the same day buy just that one person:

By Leefeller, March 30, 2011 at 2:42 pm

Mannie, this despicable tactic is being promoted full steam ahead,  clearly by observing what is going on in the Republican states. Lies and half lies promoted as truths!

The following comment is so bindingly clear, from my view!

“Meanwhile, the adults are fed propaganda in the form of lies, spin, obfuscation, etc. - again, mostly with respect to the attempted re-writing of history - through Beck, Palin, Bachmann, Fox News, etc.  And they shamelessly follow Hitler’s (not Goebbels’) dictum that “The most brilliant propagandist technique…is to confine [oneself] to a few points and repeat them over and over”

Simple observations of truth have no room in a curtained room of lies, so truth as reality is ignored those who would have us become what Hitlers Germany was!

Every time I see one of those ass holes speak,...... the swastika seems to be glaringly missing from behind them!

The accusations of fascism by the far Left happen pretty often here. Maybe Eugene Robinson doesnt read Truthdig?

Report this

“Leefeller is quietly waiting for more proof?” Geebeiz on a cracker Ozerk! Are you playing in the sand box again?  You should know the sandbox is really the kitty litter box.

Seems someone has a greasy Ozerk for fashinsim, I suspect it is potentially viable someone besides Ozerk is reading this? I actually have been real busy getting my Nazi Jack Boot polished, as you know I have a peg leg plus Truthdig has become much harder to comment on, then for an admirer to bring a box of whoopy Cushions to a Gingrich self love Fest.

Let me make it clear Ozerk, I do not speak for the left, the right or the third member, I only speak for myself, well you seem to speak for me also?

So Robertson said something which set you off on a Ozerky tangent, are you done yet? Ozerk, you also seem to have a selective mind as empty as it seems, in this case the Ozerk fetish word of the day seems to be accusation.  Ozerk do you have a point besides the one on your head?

Of course all this Ozerk stuff on the wall, is to make sure we never discuss the article about Almondo Boy Nugget and right wing bullying!

Lets have some more fun looking for accusations of “fascism” by Leefeller, who doesnt seem to be aware that it happens even though he does it pretty often all by himself:

By Leefeller, November 22, 2011 at 10:52 am

Fascism is alive and well fulfilling Republican wet dreams to an orgasmic level exceeding their wildest fantisyes.  it appears Adolf is back from the dead, the marginalizing segments of society seems to have made a successful come back.  Actually with bells on very like Scrooges Christmas Past we have Aldofs brown-shirts of Germany past. I wonder if Wisconsin police would be so quick to pull out the pepper spray?

Come on, huge protests in Wisconsin without far as I know any pepper spray, Ohio too! No flash grenades or and rubber bullets,  seems to be a little bit of sick bully element making the rounds, don’t you think! 

Of course the Republicans love to play the fear card.

Leefeller is quietly waiting for more proof? Well, let me borrow a phrase from Leefeller: If the following post Sounds like an accusation of fascism, if it walks like an accusation of Fascism and it smells like an accusation of Fascism,.......  it must be an accusation of fascism! Here we go:

By Leefeller, April 17, 2011 at 5:42 pm

We must not discuss the topic of this article for then Tea Bags would tumble into something they can not cope with, the tea pot of reality.

So one little tip of the iceberg for now!

We go to number 5 of Britts 14 points of Fascism: ” Rampant Sexism.  Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.”

Has anyone seen a gay Chicano tea bag?

Sexism is only as good as the sexist who is leading the canard. So the tea bags do have a few high profile ladies of the most limited intelligence waving tea bags in unison,..... so this makes tea bags not sexist?  Lets face it Bachman and Palin are not on top of supporting womens rights or anyones else’s for that matter.  Bush made president as a half wit so Palin or Bachman could become president, as long as they do not have to match half a wit!!

So we have the tea bags being sponsored and supported by special interests attacking all liberties as entitlements or the old socialisms cheer. I actually saw a tea bag on TV the other day and it was a surprising cornucopia of enlightenment, of course that was because it was coming from Texas!

So Tea bags and Replications flock together touting the classic Republican ideal of lowering taxes for the wealthy plutocracy actually their benefactors, .....so this is the great renovation which is supposed to be creating jobs?  Yes, I see; specially now with the elimination of child labor laws, it is all coming together, surely child labor will create more jobs and it is well known lowering wages will do create more jobs yet.  Tea Bags need to get those big governemnt minimum wages down to 30 cents a day, so we can take jobs back from places like Bangladesh?.... Damn, maybe those unionized Bangladeshi will work for even 29 cents a day, then we can work for 28 cents a day without no stinking union!

I am told, It was not a lie in Wisconson, when it was announce ...  we need to be getting rid of those Unions in Wisconson to save money the state is borke…. then we hear though the wonder Walker stated at a Congressional hearing….... getting rid of Unions would not save money?.... NO!.... thats not a lie, it is just a different way of looking at the truth?  The Republican/Tea bag way of looking at truth and maybe life in general?

I don’t know about you, but I have some tea bags tucked away just to hedge me bets!

If it Sounds like fascism, if it walks like Fascism and it smells like Fascism,.......  it must be fascism! And,.....What War!

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_false_debate_on_the_debt_20110412/

Report this

Leftists NEVER make the accusation of fascism

I laughed out loud because it happens daily here on Truthdig. Leefeller was not convinced when i provided some examples. He said “two consecutive days of accusations are construed in the minds of one as frequent?”

OK, Lee wanted more proof. I responded by showing how he made two “fascist” accusations in one day! And then i found another day when he made another two “fascist” accusations. Its daily doubles!

Remember, Leefeller is a very average Leftist, I mean he isnt the worst accuser here on Truthdig. He tries not to be absolute. He tries not to be extreme. But it was very easy for me to find two days where he made two “fascism” accusations per day.

Hey, lets just look around a little more. Here is one where the accusation is straightforward:

By Leefeller, April 20, 2011 at 11:50 am

Anaccisie, comment;

“Of course the working-class people are betrayed in the outcome, but that’s part of the deal with power.”

I usually do not use absolutisms, ....but always seems to fit here, Mexico would be a prime example of power coming to the top like turds in a cesspool,.... after how many revolutions? In a way, I empathize with the fantasy concept of anarchism!

The name Homeland Security seems to come right out of the Fascist’s play book, I see many things going on in the Republican states which seems like a closed society, a fascist direction, of taking peoples rights away from them, especially in Michigan where municipalities can be taken over by the state with autocratic or fascists logic, this seems just one more form of opportunism, which I see as fascist!

To me, it seems even more hypocritical when the Republicans say they want smaller government, and they are taking over municipalities? I suppose privatizing is not really bigger government and neither is cronyism?

Now understand me. I am not saying that Leefeller cant make the “fascist” accusation. It is his right to do so.

But he really cant throw the “fascism” accusation around and then pretend that he doesnt do it.

Eugene Robinson said: “There is no symmetry here. The far left may hurl insults at the right, but doesn’t scream “fascism”...”

It really is funny how wrong Eugene was, especially here on Truthdig. There is plenty of symmetry. The far Left screams “fascism” once a day… sometimes twice, right Leefeller?
 
Well, the correct response from Leefeller would be to laugh at himself and admit I am right. But hatred for others makes it hard to laugh at yourself.

When i read the comments section of most political/social websites I am reminded why the country we call America is in the shape that it in.

This thread has been no different.

Oops, messed up the last half of my post, here is is with proper ‘quote marks’....

Leefeller made one accusation of fascism but he isnt done for the day. Same thread:

By Leefeller, April 22, 2011 at 3:34 pm

Koch This!

Hey guys, this is number nine from the who, dat dog fascist handbook. This reads like the well choreographed Republican play book!  Piece by Piece, bit by bit! ......

9. Power of corporations protected

Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.

Hey GRYM your fetish with the girl scouts is starting to worry me!

Wow! Two dings in one day. And thats just one far Leftist named Leefeller. On only one thread on one day he made TWO accusations of fascism!

Eugene said: “The far left may hurl insults at the right, but doesn’t scream “fascism”...”

Oh Eugene, they do it every day here on Truthdig. But they dont want to admit it.

Well, Eugene Robinson said that the difference between the right and left is that the Left NEVER accuses people of “fascism”. This is funny. It makes me think that the Truthdig editors dont read the articles they are putting up here.

The other funny thing is that Leefeller and other far Leftist posters here are defending Eugene’s statement, even though they make the “fascist” accusation right here on Truthdig.

Some far Leftists make the “fascist” accusation pretty often. Leefeller is not the worst offender,  and yet unfortunately he is one who objects to my statement and demands more proof that the fascist accusation happens daily.

Here is another day, another thread. On that one day and on that one thread we have one far Leftist, namely Leefeller himself. Lets see if he rings the “fascism bell!

By Leefeller, April 22, 2011 at 3:54 pm

Koching UP

If one does not see the parallels with the following tenth point of Fascism, they are blinded by tea bags, we have seen the Republican Koch connection;  in Wisconson, Michigan, New York, now Washington and other states! Piece by Piece, bit by bit!....... 

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated

Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.

Hey girl scout guy, the girl scouts are challenging your hegemony, maybe they need to be crushed or made powerless with the Unions!

Leefeller made one accusation of fascism but he isnt done for the day. Same thread:

[quote[]By Leefeller, April 22, 2011 at 3:34 pm

Koch This!

Hey guys, this is number nine from the who, dat dog fascist handbook. This reads like the well choreographed Republican play book!  Piece by Piece, bit by bit! ......

9. Power of corporations protected

Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.

Hey GRYM your fetish with the girl scouts is starting to worry me!

Wow! Two dings in one day. And thats just one far Leftist. on only one thread.

Eugene said: “The far left may hurl insults at the right, but doesn’t scream “fascism”...”

Oh Eugene, they do it every day here on Truthdig. But they dont want to admit it.

Eugene Robinson said the far Left NEVER uses the “fascist” accusation.

I think its funny that anyone would defend that statement, since it is a daily occurance on Truthdig. But some people dont seem to be aware of it. I guess they just hate so much that they dont seem to be aware of what they are saying.

I provided two consecutive days of ‘fascism” accusations by the far Left here on this thread! Nevertheless Leefeller takes the opportunity to jump in with his usual insults and his usual carelessness:

Guess ‘two consecutive days of accusations’ are construed in the minds of one as frequent? Then elevated to be accusations, when really they where reply’s to questions from Ozerks flagship straw man insinuation.

That was an unfortunate attack by Leefeller. This is really very simple and very easy. Lets pick just one person out of the thousands who post here and see if they make the “fascism” accusation. Lets pick Leefeller himself!

This will be fun. Just one article. Just one day. Just one Leefeller. We will get two “fascism” accusations from him in one day on one thread:

By Leefeller, December 1, 2011 at 12:21 pm

Defining of trolls would seem subjective only in a limited sense, sometimes posters call trolls any differing opinions for their own. Objectivity is very hard to obtain. For I have my suspicions of Trolldom, but usually if it is not the one hiding under a bridge it may be someone trying to sell me one! Really trolls seem in my book to be defined in their constant obstructions from the article topic and especially from posters comments which can be uncomfortably biting truths!

Question for race; my knowledge of Fascism is limited, from online searches, your post advocates a knowledge on the subject; what is your opinion of Dr. Lawrence Britt’s 14 points of Fascism?

When I read the 14 points, I see the puzzle fitting into place right here in River City!

That is an accusation of fascism, one which he apparently considers a “biting truth”.

OK same day, same thread, same Leefeller:

Leefeller, December 1, 2011 at 10:04 pm

What do you mean by ‘we” OM?

As to unconvincing truth being biting, I think not! More like flea bites! Once again OM you think it is all about you, I was commenting in reference to ‘Napolean whats his name’s’ post on trolls, if green warts fit OM,... so be it!

More importantly is my question about fascism and how it relates to what is happening in our seemingly corrupt and broken nation. Recent shenanigans going on in Congress with them trying to pass a law giving the Military complete control of detention over US citizens without due process simply by labeling them as terrorists seems very Fascist to me?

That is another accusation of “fascism”. Two separate accusations on the same day on the same thread by one person. The very person who said I was making a straw man argument.

All from http://www.truthdig.com/arts_culture/item/the_fascism_hiding_in_hollywood_20111126/

Note that a third accusation of “fascism” is already in the Truthdig article title, but maybe Leefeller needs more evidence.

Leefeller, April 23 at 7:38 am Link to this comment
“First of all, Ozerk Michael, I do not hate you, hell I do not even hate my sister who is a Tea Bagger ..... “

Since the Tea Party had been co-opted by a tractionless Republican Party after the combined Clinton/Bush evisceration of the US Constitution to support globalism, the Tea Party has been split in three.

First of all, the original Tea Party [I’ll call Tea Party 1] was originally started by Ron Paul supporters in 2007 and some of those original people are still struggling to reclaim their rightful moniker.

Then we have the Tea Party 2, whose members have absolutely no idea what Ron Paul stands for and don’t care to because their beloved Republican party heads had been railing against anyone NOT supporting globalism and NAFTA; most notably, Ron Paul. Those dutiful minions do not dare step out of line with any kind of original thought and know next to nothing about history or the Constitution. But lattes and Priuses, yes, they know all about that stuff.

And lastly, we have Tea Party 3, which consists of flat out disgusted voters who have abandoned BOTH major parties and are waiting for any candidate with two warm brain cells to step up to the plate and support the Constitution.

So, if there is any confusion over what the Tea Party represents, it’s because the major parties and their respective voters have been intentionally tossed into confusion so that globalist concerns don’t have to fight any strong resistance as they further their agenda.

So, Lee, from the way you spelled it out, I’d say your sister was #2.

First of all Ozerk Michael, I do not hate you, hell I do not even hate my sister who is a Tea Bagger and a fawning Catholic and possibility more ignorant then you, plus I suppose my Sister, also like you don’t know the difference between a doily and a fascist.

“The simplest fact… you know i am right… and you want to pretend that it never happened?”

One thing I do not need to pretend is the day evolution was passed out, you and my sister were on holiday at a Tea Bagger rally, actually my sister was attending a doily fest.

Now for the hell of it, lets pretend I really care about what you or my sister think anything in the world and for amusement lets ride along your road of neanderthal thought evolution and pretend I give a crap!

Fascism is a historical fact, you know Mussolini and Hitler, Polpot and the guy in Chile were allegedly Fascists.  Are those accusations in your mind Ozerk? Maybe that is the problem anytime someone makes a statement or comment, gives out their opinion on what they feel and observe from assimilation of ideas, facts (facts, probably something you Ozerk may not understand like Fasciam) so the knuckle dragging side of the world dost not agree with they are automatically are construed as accusations? (What a moronic twit you seem Ozerk, now this is what I call an accusation)

Anything perceived by Mr. Straw man not deemed acceptable as a Righty Tighty Tea Bagger Evangelist real, so with heads firmly planted where the sun don’t shine, happens to be my perception of the one and unfortunately probably many may nit wits out there who seem to be cloned imbeciles. But hate, no I do not hate!

Now I ask is my perception of Ozerk an accusation or is it a potential fact gathered over several years of observation, sort of like my imbecile sister?

Now I do not hate you Ozerk, nor do I hate me sister, I just find such social handicapping unfair to common sense and considered by many as reality!

By the way, Ozerk, your hate comment about me is again the only real accusation and just more of you riding your straw man around in a circle side saddle again.

I’m saying that the extreme language we hear from the far right is qualitatively different from the extreme language we hear from the far left”

What “far left”? There is only one side, yours, that of the increasingly fascist, lawless mass murderer government for which you are a paid propaganda agent. Do you really believe we are all morons? Go wash that Repucrat brown tongue, Robinson.

OOOppps. make that three accusations of fascism… and thats just this one article!

Leefeller, would you like to go back and count how many times you have used the ‘fascism’ accusation? It wont be very hard to do, as a rough guess you have done it at least ten times.

Lets get together and find those ‘fascist’ accusations that you made. We can educate Eugene… who thinks the far Left would NEVER make that accusation.

But you have done it at least ten times. I dont care how much you hate me. You cant have it both ways. You can’t scream repeatedly ‘fascism’ on Truthdig and then agree with Eugene that it never happened.

The simplest fact… you know i am right… and you want to pretend that it never happened?

“I’m saying that the extreme language we hear from the far right is qualitatively different from the extreme language we hear from the far left”

What “far left”? There is only one side, yours, that of the increasingly fascist, lawless mass murderer government for which you are a paid propaganda agent. Do you really believe we are all morons? Go wash that Repucrat brown tongue, Robinson.

It seems Ozark Michal’s concept of realty is different from most peoples in the real world;.... ‘Thats two consecutive days with Leftist accusations of ‘fascism’. And thats just on this thread alone!’

OZaek goest on to ramble!

“So I thought it was funny because Eugene obviously doesnt read Truthdig, since the Leftist accusations of fascism here are quite frequent but he doesnt seem to know about it. Neither does Dore, apparently.”

Guess ‘two consecutive days of accusations’ are construed in the minds of one as frequent? Then elevated to be accusations, when really they where reply’s to questions from Ozerks flagship straw man insinuation.

Now an accusation used here by Ozerk is developed to form a required defense of a conjured crime? Never did anyone make an accusation of Fascism, I only mentioned it after Ozerk brought up the subject as a reply to Dores question for clarification.

What I did say was; ‘I have on some past posts mentioned our nation seems to be showing indicators of Fascism or despotism.

These may seem accusations to Ozerk, but how about opening that closed mind Ozerk and considering my comments as opinion, or premise or surmising or guesstimating or reflections? But even more I ask what is your definition of ‘quite frequent’.... Ozerk?  I do not believe my comments on the subject have been frequent, again only in your mind Ozerk, actually Ozerk you are the only one here making accusations, but obviously hypocrisy evades the hypocrite!

I would be happy to discuss the potential indicators of fascism and help you connect the dots Ozerk, but since connecting dots seems to evade you, this would be a silly request.

Using the word accusations was a set up,  making poor Ozerk the victim. Using the word accusation, is used to formulate self induced defense suggesting as being attacked. What a crock of Ozerky!

So in the end Ozerk, a little pot calling the kettle black project; maybe you could define how accusations are quite frequently used by your own accusations?

El_Pinguino, April 22 at 5:03 pm
My point was we have no idea what actually happened in FL. Therefore we are wasting our time talking about shit we have no clue about.”
I dunno, it’s always interesting reading other people’s viewpoints on topics; if everyone commented similarly, one might feel that the consensus might even extend beyond this site, as well.

“Are you saying Bush’s invasion of Iraq was indiscriminate murder? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_doctrine#Pre-emptive_strikes”
Ohhh, yeah, absolutely. I read the Wikipedia contribution and it only reinforced what I was saying. I was a Republican most of my life and that party was hijacked by neoconservative space-cadets with distorted views of controlling the whole planet. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Wolfowitz were sick and twisted sociopaths. Goldwater, my favorite classic conservative, was denied the presidency, some say, because he despised David Rockefeller’s Trilateral Commission (what would later become a basis for the New World Order). He wouldn’t play ball with Rockefeller.  It wasn’t that Johnson won, even though it “appeared” as a landslide; Johnson despised Kennedy, but he was perfectly willing to ride on JFK’s coat tails, though, in the 1964 election. His corruptibility made him a shoe in for the presidency under Rockefeller.

“I am always amazed at the people commenting on websites who *know what the constitution says*.”
Well, you’re partly right. Many people fail to understand little differences like the word “regulated” in the Second Amendment, which at the time referred to being “disciplined” with respect to the law and not being just a band of angry yahoos with a noose to fill. Back then, back when people still remembered the abuses of the British Army and government, they knew that a militia was the only way to keep a government from overreaching its authority, which in our case was even further reinforced by the Bill of Rights. If you want to understand this better, Thomas Woods’ book on “Nullification” and also the Federalist/Antifederalist Papers will leave you with little doubt as to what was intended by the Constitution, but watch how many people dispute the Federalist Papers and others because they didn’t actually appear in the Constitution. Judge Abel Upsher’s commentary from the early 1800’s to citizen Thomas Ritchie was one I remember well, where he said that the governor of Virginia was well within his right to call up the militia to defend Virginia against the Federal Army. Chew on that one for awhile and see how twisted things have become since then in the public’s understanding of the militia. Upsher was a staunch conservative and states’ rights advocate, had been Secretary of the Navy and later Secretary of State. He and Goldwater were true conservatives; Bush was just an interloping puppet of the NWO and his father’s machinations of world dominance. And yes, Bush’s invasion of Iraq was indiscriminate murder. Bush’s pre-emption went far further than Zimmerman’s stalking of Martin. The dispatcher’s warning not to proceed was like the reluctance of so many on the UN member counties. The US and rubber-stamping Samoa never comprised a coalition or a mandate, even if we were later able to reluctantly drag other countries into the fray.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abel_P._Upshur).

“Sometimes commenting on these websites reminds me of wearing a dark blue suit… you can piss all over yourself and get a nice warm feeling and nobody even notices.”
I like that.

BR549…

My point was we have no idea what actually happened in FL. Therefore we are wasting our time talking about shit we have no clue about. Neither I, nor you, appear to be someone qualified to interpret laws and comment wisely. (I do not know your profession) As I interact with the law in matters of divorce, work injuries, etc I am constantly reminded of just how little I know… and thought I knew.

As to your point of threats:

“To address your statement though, I would think that when someone starts killing others far outside of the immediate threat area, and for no reason other than genocide or terror (something our government seems to be getting more proficient at), it is no longer self defense. That’s indiscriminate murder.”

Are you saying Bush’s invasion of Iraq was indiscriminate murder?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_doctrine#Pre-emptive_strikes

Did Zimmerman invoke this idea of *If we wait for threats to fully materialize, we will have waited too long*?

See… lots of questions none of us here can answer.

The sarcasm about the nuclear weapons in the garage is quite valid. I am always amazed at the people commenting on websites who *know what the constitution says*. Ted Nugent included. None of us are included in the debates of what the constitution means in the real world now are we?

Besides, this article was not about invoking self defense. Too much drift…..it was about media content.

Sometimes commenting on these websites reminds me of wearing a dark blue suit… you can piss all over yourself and get a nice warm feeling and nobody even notices.

El_Pinguino, April 22 at 12:31 pm
“Lets get on to more important things: Like when the right to bear arms allows us to keep nuclear war heads in our garages.”

Who is suggesting that? That would be like suggesting that because we have cars with 500 horsepower, we should let those who are rich enough to own them, drive them at any speed they wish.

......  like suggesting that because the Russian economy collapsed, it was then OK for the US to take over the world.

...... like thinking the argument to be convenient, it’s OK to compare small arms with nuclear weapons.

To address your statement though, I would think that when someone starts killing others far outside of the immediate threat area, and for no reason other than genocide or terror (something our government seems to be getting more proficient at), it is no longer self defense. That’s indiscriminate murder.

A more accurate scenario for colonial times would have been people being able to afford their own private navies or forts with cannon, which in some cases wasn’t far from the truth. The idea wasn’t to have a government large enough to suppress anyone having who was remiss in thinking they could swat flies in the summertime without government permission, it was to create an environment that hopefully pulled enough people working together toward a common cause; not unlike our current day fascistic duopoly vs. libertarianism in its truer sense.

Eugene Robinson wrote:

There is no symmetry here. The far left may hurl insults at the right, but doesn’t scream “fascism” whenever a Republican proposes privatizing Medicare.

I responded: “LOL! oh Eugene… you dont read Truthdig! They scream “fascism” every day.”

Dore decided to challenge my remark, so he asked me:

Can you point me to these articles where Republicans are called “fascist” on Truthdig?  I would really like to read them.

Okay. On the same day that I asserted that Leftists “scream ‘fascism’ every day” De Molay steps up to the old plate and pitched this:

By de Molay, April 20 at 7:11 pm

Well, if no one else has the guts to say it, I will:

Ted Nugent calling liberals cockroaches good only for stomping, referring to a political opponent as subhuman scoundrels and stating more or less openly that anyone who disagrees with his political/social beliefs are, in demonstrable fact, phrases that could have been taken straight from the pages of Mein Kampf and certainly appeared in Goebell’s propaganda, and that, to me, spells F-A-S-C-I-S-T.

and the very next day, another Leftist chimed in:

By Leefeller, April 21 at 5:59 am

Dore,

Ozark Michael, a self proclaimed expert on liberals, still does not know the difference between Fascism and Socialism compared to Communism.

I have on some past posts mentioned our nation seems to be showing indicators of Fascism or despotism.

Thats two consecutive days with Leftist accusations of ‘fascism’. And thats just on this thread alone!

So I thought it was funny because Eugene obviously doesnt read Truthdig, since the Leftist accusations of fascism here are quite frequent but he doesnt seem to know about it. Neither does Dore, apparently.

Lets not go overboard on making arguments and decisions about the Fl case. Who here knows exactly what footsteps were taken..in which direction..indicating body language..who turned when..and after what statement… etc etc. Is a 17 year old kid who puts his hood up after someone speaks to him, trying to avoid further contact?? There is all kinds of crap to sort thru.

We have no idea what happened. Every example one gives is a useless exercise in futility.

Lets get on to more important things: Like when the right to bear arms allows us to keep nuclear war heads in our garages.

balkas, April 22 at 9:39 am
“the fact is that, say, trayvon is dead. a man shot him dead. and we will never ever know under what conditions zimmerman had killed him or why.

I hear what you’re saying and I don’t believe anyone really wants to kill anyone else; well, most people anyway. We have many of our soldiers who have been conditioned to believe that “towelheads” are the bane of the Earth, when the majority of them are doing no less than the Vietnamese in holding back the threat of imperial hegemony ...... by us. Our wars are the blowback from dysfunctional foreign policy that only serve to protect corporate interests. Hitler had major funding from the Fords and Rockefellers and Prescott Bush was no mere choir boy in that process. So, I think it’s a bit unfair to call what our Constitution and Geneva Convention honoring troops are doing out of sincerity and calling it murder; not when they are believing they are responding to a threat. The “murder” is committed by those who knew the conflict could have been avoided and decided to proceed anyway. The “murder” is committed by corporation heads, military leaders, and legislators who knew that the wars had nothing to do with responding to real threats, but were the result of corruption and avarice repackaged for the masses under patriotism. Are all of our soldiers that altruistic? Far from it; some of them have proven themselves to be downright sociopathic, but yet the government keeps signing them up with little regard to world opinion or with any degree of morality.

balkas, April 22 at 10:11 am
“‘nowhere is self-defense considered murder’, says br549. With great uneasy and trepidation i now venture to delve into such an
overgeneralization.”

I suppose there are some people who have yet to understand that they even had rights in the first place, and they will be the first to cave in to accepting anything they are told about those rights changing, but our founding fathers knew exactly the argument you speak of. They didn’t just fall off the colonial turnip truck. Just because they lived 250 years ago, doesn’t mean that modern men are geniuses. Self defense only escalates to murder when the homeowner has the opportunity to avoid killing someone and then intentionally kills him anyway. Now, if the homeowner starts blazing away from an adrenaline rush, that doesn’t mean he was pretending to sleep in bed and wait for the perp to enter the room. He could have legitimately reacted to the situation that was escalated by the perpetrator. That is self defense.

But why should the burden be pushed onto the homeowner in the first place? Anyone with half a brain would have knocked on the door or rung the door bell if they needed to use a phone in the middle of the night. That is not justification for a homeowner shooting someone; simply because someone was unlucky enough to have their car break down or whatever. As far as Trayvon Martin, as I said before, why didn’t Zimmerman fall back as directed by the dispatcher and why had Martin failed to exercise a solely defense response by being on top and banging Zimmerman’s head onto the sidewalk ...... if that is what, indeed, really happened. We don’t know; we’re just having a discussion on TD.

Personally, I think Zimmerman should at least be tried for manslaughter for not following the directive, with death resulting. Had Martin turned and confronted Zimmerman, and we don’t know that to not also be the case, that would be another issue entirely, but that’s just my view. I don’t feel that Zimmerman was in the right just because he said he felt threatened, especially when he was able to manage own his safety bubble. In this case, since both individuals were in shared common space, they BOTH had an obligation to avoid a conflict and it appears that BOTH of them may have given up that self defense designation by aggravating the situation.

“nowhwere is self-defense considered murder”, say br549.
with great uneasy and trepidation i now venture to delve into such an
overgeneralization.
and not only because labels cannot be evaluated as wrong or right nor true or false, but
because no human being can describe all actualities that justify a killing in name of
self-defense.
and there shld be at least two eyewitnesses who saw all of any situation in which a
person is.
regarding eyewitnesses, it is interesting that zimmerman chose the right time [rain,
darkness, no people walking or being present in the area] to follow trayvon?
coincidence or a plan?
and how often does such a scenario repeat itself?  right to bear arms ensures that some
innocent people will be killed or murdered.
that’s the point.
thanks, bozhidar b. vancouver

br549,
the fact is that, say, trayvon is dead. a man shot him dead. and we will never ever know under what conditions zimmerman had killed
him or why.
we can now theorize, conjecture about causes for that death and many other deaths; proffer justifications/reasons, etc., ad infinitum
and we will, to be sure—but at least in some cases, right to self defense or claim to it, does or equals murder and/or killings.
why did zimmerman need a gun at all; and especially while either following or chasing another human being? did he obtain in order
to defend self, property, or did he plan ti murder a black person?
alas, this is now what blacks think and all americans are now at greater risk than ever before.
because the law allows it. 

and we’ve had many such deaths and they will continue to happen. that’s 100% sure.
since ww2 americans have slain or helped others slain probably around 10 million people.
all these deaths, maimings, destruction were done in defense of u.s.
some of these 10 millions were actually murdered.
so, u.s right to self-defense does murder people. 
===
best self-defense/prevention of killing and murder is education, jobs/healthcare for all, doing away with hatred, racial divide, etc.
however, the 1% does not want to to educate people,, hire/educate more police, abridge the racial divide, provide healthcare for all,
etc.
and the result is? enormous hatred, angst, insecurities, rage, etc., and more lives lost. 
====
however, my main point is that these inalienable rights in u.s appear absolute and at the same time open-ended; nonexpansion of
them to their absolute end depending on solely effective resistance to them.
and it seems to me that the right to do what one can, dares to do [and especially of a psychotic] is expanding and not shrinking.

balkas, April 22 at 2:48 am
“as far as i know bill of rights, US constitution do[es] not limit freedoms to do whatever one pleases when one is in pursuit of own happiness”

With respect to murder, that comes under state jurisdiction and ALL states have murder statutes, since those states are bound by the Constitution and one cannot at the same time pursue their own happiness while denying that of another, at least as far as those basic human basic rights so enumerated. If a person had already made a conscious decision to violate the rights of another, by way of argument, he has already violated the agreement to live within the Constitution among others wishing to do abide by it.

“........ at this time, courts permit even murder by a person when that person defends her/his interests, happiness, freedoms, eg, people are allowed to carry guns and to use them if that person merely says or feels s/he’s threatened.”

Nowhere, is self defense considered murder, since they are at opposite ends of the spectrum in compliance with a person’s rights. One DOES have the right to defend themselves against someone else who has decided to go off the reservation, so to speak.

“Stand your ground and the right to bear arms laws, actually command/demand a person to kill another person, so, even murder at home and especially abroad is not off limits. One’s inalienable right to pursue happiness does not stop even at murder, let alone at deceiving, lying, torturing, usury, threats, etc.”

That sounds like the typical ‘one size fits all’ approach that faux-liberal anti-gun people continually spew, because they still believe the government will always be there to protect them. Since the founding fathers were already aware of that total fallacy, THAT is why they drafted the 9th AND 10th Amendments, because they knew a “government” would always try to abuse its limited powers given to it under the 10th, and that the people should be the ones to have their freedoms (9th) unrestricted ....... that is, of course assuming that everyone plays well in the sand box. If you bother to research any of what you referred to, you’d find that criminals are far more often warded off if they know the homeowner has a firearm. And you can be sure they won’t attempt a break-in where someone owns multiple weapons and knows how to use them. There are a number of cases where people have attempted to violate others and their space and have run off, just at the sight of an owner’s gun. In that case, firearms are like stop signs in that they remind those, who lack the common sense to use caution at an intersection, that there are still rules. When someone decides to consciously blow past that red octagonal reminder, there isn’t much difference between them and the person who consciously chooses to violate another’s rights from the onset with a pistol; they can both lead to dead victims who had themselves consciously chosen to abide by the system.

The feds have portrayed the term “sovereign citizen” as supporting terrorism, since anyone who understands it also understands how abusive the government has become, and they don’t want educated people questioning anything they do. The truth is that when someone understands what being a sovereign citizen REALLY means, it must command an understanding of every other citizen’s rights as being totally equally to one’s one ..... again, as long as everyone plays well. ‘Stand your ground’ and ‘castle doctrine’ phrases refer to people who are choosing to still abide by the system; the one who challenges them is not.

Your comingling of the terms “Stand Your Ground” and Right to Bear Arms” in the same sentence with “murder” I find absurd. Murder at home is no different than murder anywhere else. You’ll appreciate this discussion more after the sh_t starts hitting the fan and you find yourself, as with the others who have been successfully anesthetized, still struggling to make sense of all this.

JN,
as far as i know bill of rights, US constitution do not limit freedoms to do whatever one pleases when one is in pursuit of own happiness; it
appears open-ended or depends on powers to be!
pursuance of own happiness subsumes defending one’s interests; interests subsumes too many actualities to list or even know them all.
true, one cannot ever list or know them all. so, why then have such a directive in first place?

so, defense one’s interest or that of US, since it cannot be ever explained nor limited, cannot ever be known—it can be only interpreted.
i suggest that the fathers of the confederation knew this fact. thus they knew that they must provide a body which will forever be empowered to
interpret that directive.
and that body had always been the 1% of americans. and no member from the 99% ever needed to apply for that job—they have been totally
excluded from enjoying that inalienable right. one can then see the prestidigitation: now one sees an alienable right and then suddenly one
does not.
===
thus, it is left to the supreme court to decide when one must stop doing s’mthing to defend or expand one’s interest.
at this time, courts permit even murder by a person when that person defends her/his interests, happiness, freedoms.
eg, people are allowed to carry guns and to use them if that person merely says or feels s/he’s threatened.
stand your ground and the right to bear arms laws, actually command/demand a person to kill another person.
so, even murder at home and especially abroad is not off limits. one’s inalienable right to pursue happiness does not stop even at murder, let
alone at deceiving, lying, torturing, usury, threats, etc.
under such a law or directive to pursue own happiness, zimmerman wld most likely be found not guilty.
law, as i understand it, demands that there be proof that zimmerman was lying about being in mortal or physical danger when trayvon allegedly
attacked him.
however, some 40 million blacks are now pursuing their own happiness; it includes vengeance as well. so we will see how things turnout
regarding whether zimmerman goes free or not.

theTribster, April 21 at 5:13 pm
“Unfortunately, Ted thinks there is a difference between the left and the right.”

Do you really think that is so? Did I miss something? I can’t say that I totally understand why Nugent would rant about the abuses
that gets him so riled and then even speak at the same meeting with Newt, Santorum, and Romney. They’re all globalists and he [Nugent] ain’t stupid; he knows how globalism has undermined this country, well, at least the sociopaths who are trying to ram it down everyone’s throat.

And truthfully, I don’t get the rift between the NRA and Ron Paul. I heard that Ron Paul was the one that declined, but I’m not positive about that. He’s more familiar with and loyal to the Constitution than ALL of the other candidates combined would be on their best day, AND at such a time when our Constitution is being several challenged.

I support what the NRA has been doing, but sometimes I wonder WTF they have been smoking.

Ted Nugents fame is falling and he must take some batshit crazy political position to make space in the news to be remembered.

Pathetic.

Actually, he doesn’t say think like me or you’ll be stampeded. Instead he says that the Obama administration has zero respect for the constitution - that is absolutely true. Clearly the guy is the other extreme from the left but at least he abides by the constitution. That’s more than the last several administration have.
Unfortunately, Ted thinks there is a difference between the left and the right. At a fundamental level there is no difference when it comes to war, stealing money, ignoring the constitution, sucking up to corporations, stealing our liberties - both parties amazingly agree. Its only on issues like abortion and gays in the military that there appears to be a difference, but as you can tell from Mittens and Obama - no difference unless it makes political sense.
I’m still holding out hope that the system will crash before the convention this summer, starting with Europe and working its way through Japan to the USA. Its called the Minsky Moment when too much debt shuts down the system like what happened in 2008 but this time will be much, much worse where printing money won’t fix the problems…
At that point it will be pretty clear that only a guy like Ron Paul can save the republic and people like Obama and Mittens and the Congress should be put in prison for Treason of the Highest Order…
Not sure the system can make it all the way until November but they are trying like hell to keep it going, printing money and monetizing the gubmint debt directly - a beautiful thing! Banks like JPMorgan, Goldmans and BofA will be at the heart of the next meltdown once again as they act as proxies for the Federal Reserve in terms of manipulation (see Blyth Masters or European Whale)...
Nuff said, maybe Ted has a better perspective on things then we realize or maybe he’s just crazy!

IMax,
Ted Nugent made the following comment to the NRA about Obama and his administration, which for anyone who is a true Democrat or a true Republican they SHOULD have understood what he was getting at without getting their knickers in a knot.

He told the NRA “if Barack Obama becomes the president in November, I will either be dead or in jail by this time next year.”

Nugent later told radio host Dana Loesch, “Guess who was there with me [at the NRA]; heroes of the Secret Service and the FBI and the ATF and the federal marshals – law-enforcement and military heroes from every imaginable agency who believe in the Second Amendment and the First Amendment, ........ and I’m using both of ‘em.”

Not surprisingly, Hillaryesque career politician and DNC Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz ripped Nugent’s comments as being “despicable, deplorable and completely beyond the pale.” When politicians of either party feel threatened [I did not say WERE threatened], rather than assume any personal or party responsibility for the apathy and anger in the population, the first thing they do is posture themselves into positions of more power and then use the anti-terrorist technology and legislation against the very citizens that they had lied to to get in office. THAT is the anger that Nugent was expressing. He is not alone and there are a large number of people who have given up on the corrupt two-party mafia we have for a government. They aren’t opposed to the government itself; only to the corrupt officials who are hiding behind it.

Personally, I think Romney is just another NWO stooge and both he and the NRA are using each other for traction. I strongly believe in what the NRA stands for but, really, some of the speakers they had lined up were enough to make my hair stand on end. I don’t believe Romney really understands what the Second Amendment issue is about; I think he just needs traction and the NRA is willing to jump on any boat that will get them out of Port Obama. Strange bedfellows, but such is the fate when an administration openly pushes for a corrupt garden-salad socialist/communist/fascist regime to replace our once democratic republic. The bottom line is the US Constitution, period, and if the NRA has to use Romney to keep it, so be it. If I were Romney, that isn’t exactly a group I’d want to piss off too much by lying about election promises, ........ but maybe that potential anger is just the false flag opportunity that the globalists will stage to try to further catalyze their agenda. Nothing is ever as it seems.

Anyway, that is what the heat is about.

I’ll admit to being confused by this article. 

As a moderate democrat I am constantly embarrassed by many of the posts found on this site.  What did Mr. Nugent say which is not daily found here on TruthDig?

Ted Nugent has acted like a lodestone/magnet/cheese-for-the-rats of Big
Media for many, many years.  Like Joe the Plumber and Allan West and Pat
Robertson and Michelle Bachmann and Glenn Beck and slap happy Grandpappy
Limbaugh, any time one of them Any time one of them (tons of others too,
Hannity, Savage, Palin…)  burps or rolls over in his sleep and groans they attract
a camera and audio that will record their doped up weirdness for broadcast
minutes later.  If we want to know what FOX is saying we don’t have to tune in
to the local outlet; Comedy Central or MSNBC will tell us.  Goofily controversial
stuff, all this chaff and shag, and it sells ads.  Big Media now is the p.r. wing of
corporate policy.  The corporations don’t have to peddle directly to the
rightwing paranoids; they’ve got corporate media doing that.  That frees Shell
and Exxon and (you name ‘em) to tell us in lush three page foldouts and tear-
jerking 30-second ads how they’re saving the planet.
The effect of this design has been to redraw “the center” ever farther right into
a parody of war patriotism and soap-opera fantasies of Christian destiny. 
Soon, Big Media will be running to Ted Nugent (or Sarah, again) for what
“conservatives” think needs doing, then to Senator Lindsay Graham to see what
liberals think need doing.

If you really want a good book discussing the differences between right/left media and thinking etc one should read:

Whose Freedom?: The Battle Over America’s Most Important Idea by George Lakoff

After reading this book I began to see how the frames are different for each side of a given question. This book was probably the most single influence on my decision to move out of the USA and pursue a peaceful existence when I can do so. I can now that our *self determination* is no longer a valid concept.

Lakoff seems to think we can *get it back*... I don’t.

Dore,

Oz ark, Michael a self proclaimed expert on liberals, still does not know the difference between Fascism and Socialism compared to Communism.

I have on some post posts mentioned our nation seems to be showing indicators of Fascism or despotism.

Google Britts 14 points of fascism or go to Utube and check out the old 1946 Encyclopedia of Britannica classroom film on ‘Despotism’.

See, if you can connect the dots?

The following are excerpts from Nugent’s explanation to WND on the matter because, apparently, too many lilly-white liberals get their panties ruffled and spill their lattes whenever they think the sky is falling:

“I reminded everyone how Hillary Clinton sides with the evil criminals of the U.N. instead of her own great nation. I reminded good Americans that it isn’t the enemies’ fault for sneaking into the White House and abusing power, but rather we the people for bending over and allowing them to take corruption to a horrible new level.”

“I begged everyone to register and vote, because warriors give up their lives so that we can. I spotlighted cockroaches and rallied those who care to stomp ’em out at the voting booth in November, as is my duty as an American. I passionately rallied the American civilian troops to stand up for what is right and to demand that the US Constitution and Bill of Rights are once again forced into determining all laws and policies in America.”

And lastly, “By no stretch of the imagination did I threaten anyone’s life, or hint at violence or mayhem. Metaphors needn’t be explained to educated people.”

—————-

What part of this doesn’t make sense to anyone who actually served in the military and/or understands the Constitution? Since the early part of the LAST century, our illustrious legislature has been getting voted back into office on their promises of keeping this country strong through education, yet all the while secretly sabotaging our own children understanding their own history. While I respect everyone’s right to free speech, it is sad when we see people who haven’t got a GD clue about the difference between capitalism and corruption and thus condemn capitalism in favor of communism.

Well, if no one else has the guts to say it, I will:

Ted Nugent calling liberals cockroaches good only for stomping, referring to a political opponent as subhuman scoundrels and stating more or less openly that anyone who disagrees with his political/social beliefs are, in demonstrable fact, phrases that could have been taken straight from the pages of Mein Kampf and certainly appeared in Goebell’s propaganda, and that, to me, spells F-A-S-C-I-S-T. 

I think it is not coincidence that this was released in time for the media to report it on Hitler’s 123rd birthday

For those of you who support Nugent and Wells’s views, please enlighten me as to your definition of freedom for all?  It appears that you have one that does not appear in any dictionary at my disposal.

Such “Bullying” by the GOPers is designed to appeal
to the ignorant voter via deceit, deception and
outright lies.  Disinformation is the political
agenda of the evil GOP. They despise our
constitutionally mandated “Republican Form of
government.”  They despise the U.S. Constitution as
our Moral Compass and only Authority under our
constitutional Republic.  So they accuse true
patriots of being the treasonous reprobates that they
are by branding their political enemies as
“unpatriotic Communists.”  However, the signatures on
legislation allowing outsourcing of U.S. technology,
manufacturing base and jobs to China and elsewhere
will reveal who the real Communists are.  We
presently live under a usurped-Corporate form of
government based on monopolistic fixed-enterprise and
cheap labor but masked as “free-market capitalism” or
whatever, ad nauseam. Monarchy, Theocracy, Communism,
Fascism, Libertarianism, Corporate Capitalism are
forms of government that only meet the greedy needs
of a class of parasites such as that of an
aristocracy or politburo of the imagined nobility.
The American Revolution was fought to be free from
those “economic royalists” of imagine nobility, those of a Machiavellian mentality spinning evil Kingcraft, evil Corporatecraft and demonic
Christiancraft, and all other man-contrived
religioncraft. The present egalitarian and economic injury being done to WE THE PEOPLE today may be gleaned from the words of Senator John Sherman spoken in 1890 (21 Cong. Record 2457):

“If the concentered powers of this combination are
entrusted to a single man, it is a kingly
prerogative, inconsistent with our form of
government, and should be subject to the strong
resistance of the State and National authorities.  If anything is wrong this is wrong.  If we will not endure a king as a political power we should not endure a king over the production, transportation,and sale of any of the necessaries of life.  If we would not submit to an emperor we should not submit to an autocrat of trade, with power to prevent competition and to fix the price of any commodity.”

Gene, Gene, Gene,
Nugent may be a bit cocky, as many rock stars are, but his views on gun control and what’s really happening to this country, as shared by MILLIONS of other REAL Americans, those with any REAL understanding of the Constitution, are the only thing keeping your buddy Barry from ushering everyone into the detention camps under the protracted Bush globalist agenda, while the Constitution gets further eviscerated and America gets picked apart buy the corporate elitists.

Let’s try discussing the truth for a change; that factions on both the right AND the left have sold their souls to the globalist ideology, in spite of the fact that they all took oaths of affirmation to support the Constitution. Instead, you want to berate the right, when the left has played and equally evil hand in this whole mess.

For years I have labeled the extreme right wing antics as treasonous. GW Bush’s blatant lies about WMDs are also treasonous as that action could very well spell the end of this country. We have not played the effects of Iraq out yet.

The lies, the misleading statements, twisting of words (and Brietbart’s editing video to alter context)..are nothing but efforts to circumvent democratic action.

In my mind any efforts to *engineer* people’s thinking in order to win elections or promote one idea over another, is undermining the democracy. Treason.

Of course we can have campaigns and reasonable advertisements to facilitate getting one’s view to the public… but you know what I am driving towards.

The process is corrupted to the core. Andrew Brietbart is the clearest example of this. He edited video that radically changed what one person was saying, he was outed for doing it, then he went and did it again. He paid no penalty. And few people expressed outrage at this clear dishonesty. The system is corrupt to the core. On all sides.

The USA is not much of anything if you strip away the falsehoods we have been taught over the years. And if any country ever had the chance to radically change humanity it was the USA… but we for the most part blew it from day 1.

There is no shame.

Hurray for Eugene!  You said what I’ve thought for
years, and it needs to be said over and over—it
isn’t JUST that both sides engage in muckracking and
mudslinging, it’s the NATURE of these behaviors that
can incite escalating consequences.  I have yet to
hear someone on the left tell his/her constituents to
“lock and load” or to “kill” someone they despise as
both Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck have done repeatedly. 
Would Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords and 18 others
been shot at a rally outside a grocery store had the
“lone gunman” not been cued by the rightwing hate
machine which encourages people they must know are
off-kilter to begin with to “take matters into their
own hands?”

And before the right screams for First Amendment
privileges to sow their demon seeds throughout the
nation, perhaps they should consider their own
attitudes toward free speech?  Is it simply to yell
the loudest and most obnoxiously?  The right to
dissent and disagree is the foundation of our
Constitution and our “inherent and inalienable”
rights.  Nowhere, however, does the Constitution give
individuals, or other legally defined “persons,” the
right to bully or incite violence simply because one
might not agree with the other.

Personally, I think what the right spews is “hate
speech” and those that engage in such behaviors
should be held accountable whether through the law or
through regulating the FCC to restrict such speech on
the air waves.  Censorship?  Not really.  People seem
to have forgotten all common sense—expressing one’s
views is not the issue; it is HOW one expresses these
views and to what influence they might have that
needs examining. 

As a caveat: It strikes me as rather upside-down that
the right can vomit vitriol indiscriminately on the
daily propaganda box and never seem to be held
accountable.  Santa Cruz campus cops considered
students occupying the square locked arm-in-arm
“violence.”  What has become of our nation when hate
speech is elevated to the pinnacle of freedom and
political solidarity and expression reduced to the
level of sin?

After hearing conservatives manufacture and then
connect the dots between everything progressive, pro-
liberal-labor-equality-basic reason, freedom and
dignity. for the past 40 years, I wonder at what point
they start shooting us in the streets. Oh—wait—they
passed “stand your ground and shoot first” laws is more
than twenty States and they’re implementing them.  I
guess the first shots in the war our ideals have been
fired.

@OzarkMichael

Can you point me to these articles where Republicans are called “fascist” on Truthdig?  I would really like to read them.

There is no symmetry here. The far left may hurl insults at the right, but doesn’t scream “fascism” whenever a Republican proposes privatizing Medicare.

LOL! oh Eugene… you dont read Truthdig! They scream “fascism” every day.

Airborne855, you make an excellent point. Rather than direct confrontation the best weapon is a camera and microphone in their face every possible moment, with every delusional, paranoid rant played and replayed to the nation.

I am still of the belief that most people of our country still reject stupid, violent threats regardless of their politics.  There was a reason all the far-right Republican candidates went down in flames.  They started talking.  No, it wasn’t the violent talk of Ted Nugent; much of it was the “first cousin” of Allen West’s extreme nonsense. So, as decency would have it, after each debate many of their immediate supporters quietly and conveniently put them out of their minds.

Perhaps the situation in this world would improve ever so slightly if everyone were to STFU for a week. Town halls, city councils, Congress, press conferences; show up and just look at each other and STFU for a change since everything that comes from their mouths is a lie.

If a wise man contends with a foolish man,
Whether the fool rages or laughs, there is no peace.
Proverbs 29:9

You can’t reason with fools.

Eugene—I don’t hear them answering. I think I hear crickets chirping in the halls of Congress. I certainly don’t hear them saying: “no, no—Joe McCarthy is dead, never to return”. They’re a cowardly, cowardly crew, the GOP. Not one of them willing to stand up to the outrageous lies the radical-right wolves in their midst spew to the slobbering mainstream press, day by day. Shame on Allen West especially; his cyncicism must be boundless indeed, or his ambition, or both.

the individuals that ER criticizes in this piece are not doing anything illegally; in
fact, they are following and obeying the inalienable right of any american citizen to
pursue his/her happiness and in exact manner they wish.
btw, the right to pursue happiness and its derivatives; such as defense of one’s
interests, religion, private ownership, etc., belongs to every human being on this
planet.
so, go ahead and pursue them! stop complaining and get going. do s’mthing for a
change instead of constantly complaining about those who pursue own happiness.

Communists?!? There aren’t 78-81 Progressives left in Congress. The only Centrist left is Congress, Bernie Sanders, used to make makes occasional weak claims to be a Socialist, and then refuses to filibuster any of the really crazy shit the far right tries to get passed.