The populace is becoming aware of their MAJORITY, but generally are unaware they are enslaving themselves, they just think it is the American way and everything will get better if they work harder, they have no idea the cruelty of the corporate conservative Right-Wing fascist EXTREMISTS Republicans.

When they have been convinced it is much harder to change their mind. Especially when they won’t listen to you because you are one of the “enemy” as they have been programmed to see.

Class is war.

But in regard to slavery, a lot of people seem willing to enslave themselves.  How to change that?

Inherit The Wind

“Slavery of Whites existed defacto well into the 20th century.  The factory town, using duplicitous promises to lure workers…”

Yes, I remember reading different accounts of that awhile back. I don’t remember if it was in Zinn’s book. I do remember reading in his book about a coal miners strike were the Army was called in and indiscriminately razed the miners camp with gatling guns killing not only men, but also women and children. You can Google it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_massacre

That’s only one, there are others.

It seems to me that the present trend of the conservative movement, or the right, wants to turn back the clock to those days of the late 19th/early 20th century. Just think of it, we tolerate sweatshops overseas to provide us with manufactured goods. When will the sweatshops reemerge here in a major way as get more desperate for jobs to make ends meet.

Wage slavery is alive and well on this planet even in the USA. Mostly hidden it is exploitation of the weak and poor. If there should be a death penalty it should surely go for slavers at every level starting at the top. That and politicians who lie in office.

Actually, white slavery is alive and well today. One of the most striking examples is that of Russian women in the Middle East. The disproportionate ratio of men to women in Russia means that any woman over the age of 25 that hasn’t married carries a stigma with her, similar (but worse) to the 40 something “cougars” in the US. For those women over 25 without a man, it can be quite difficult to earn a living in Russia. Many are lured to places like to Dubai, UAE where they are indentured as “dancers” by Russian businessmen (aka the mob). I know this because every quarter in Dubai there is a gathering of people in the defense industry there. American officers deployed to various troubled spots around the region go there looking for “solutions” to their most pressing needs in the field. We sent officers there on a regular basis.

Indentured servitude is a common practice in the Middle East. While I was in Kuwait, I spoke with a number of the locally contracted laborers. They are hired from the poorest regions of the world: Malaysia, India, Pakistan and such. They are usually sponsored by a local businessman who will pay for their relocation expenses, housing, etc. The sponsor has the right to, and usually does, confiscate their passports until their debts are paid. And when is a debt paid? When they say it is. At least, that was how it was explained to me by a very friendly young man from Pakistan who was working at the coffee shop (The Green Bean) on an American Air Base. That’s right. Our military is hiring companies that either employ intentured laborers directly, or subcontract to those that do, to provide services on our bases. As a matter of fact, the practice is so vast that soldiers no longer have to clean their restrooms, sandbag, do their own laundry, cook their food, or even take out the garbage anymore.

20,000 year old pyramids?  Where did you dig up THAT piece of garbage?  The earliest pyramids go back about 5,000 years, the “Great” pyramids about 4,000. Meso-American pyramids don’t date back further than about 2,000 years.

The earliest signs of civilization run back, at most, 9,000 years, but recorded history begins about 5000-5500 years ago, in Egypt, Mesopotamia, and China.

Jay1953:

Slavery of Whites existed defacto well into the 20th century.  The factory town, using duplicitous promises to lure workers, would then pay them in script, rather than money, and overcharge them for hideous housing and food.  It was designed to sink them into ever-increasing debt (only the company store and company real estate would accept company script) and lock them in as slaves. Those who tried to leave would be subject to beatings or even murder by the company thugs.  If they managed to escape, they would be black-listed and unable to find any other kind of work.

It was functionally no different than “the peculiar institution”.  It was not that they were “wage slaves”—they were NOT free to go elsewhere.  This was one of the many causes of the rise of labor unions and vicious bloody strikes of the late 19th and early 20th centuries.  They cost one President his office, because he sent Federal troops in to break a strike over the Governor of Illinois’ objections.  (Pres. Cleveland: Gov. Altgeld sabotaged his re-nomination in 1896 at the convention in Chicago. Bryan got it, and lost to McKinley.)

There was even a popular song in the 1950’s about it:
“You get 16 tons and what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt.
Saint Peter don’t you come for me
‘cuz I can’t go.
I owe my soul to the company store!”

If the citizenry of the western world, who are not
members of the ruling elite, not slaves, what are
they? Other than political pawns?

“Race” in the modern world is appropriately defined
in political-religiosity terms, not the original,
sociological six races.

Also to be considered is the FACT that israeli
religiosity underlies western-world values. Also to
be considered is the recordings of the israeli
prophets and scribes. The israeli-postulated “God”
directed the tribe to commit genocide for a couple
thousand years. Then, per israeli prophets and
scribes, the israeli “God” tore apart the veil of
“their temple,” ending the agreement with
israeli leadership.  Two thousand years ago, israeli
prophets, scribes and interested others recorded an
event that clearly removed the historical, israeli
“God” from the israeli religiosity.

Have “israeli-types” postulated another “God” that
directed their leadership to unite with the NAZIs
after WWII, commit genocide against Palestine,
manipulate the politics of the USA, and propagandize
the internet via its obedient pimpery?

Jay1953:

Well said.

They would prefer us to live short vigorous lives utilizing our energies for them then die young while they live very long and vigorous lives from advanced technology that only them and their upper level confederates will profit from.

If the Tea Party Movement members are Republicans, the Tea Party Movement is Republican.

Slavery in racial terms is only one aspect of how slavery can be defined.

Slavery of whites was not uncommon in colonial America. It was called indentured servitude instead of slavery. Howard Zinn’s book “A Peoples History Of the US” has a very clear descriptive account of this. So its mind-boggling when you have working class whites in the TeaBagger ranks identifying themselves with the elitists when whites historically have also been enslaved by the same eletist class that enslaved the blacks. Basically is the elite classes enslaving the lower classes whether you label it slavery or indentured servitude. Present and future slavery is not racial and it is not going to be. Its going to based on class.

Its amusing, in a macabre sense, to hear politicians accuse one another of inciting class warfare. Like screaming fire in a crowded theater. Its like if the one accused of such an in-politically incorrect accusation needs to back down. It a method of mind control. Class warfare has been going on in this land since colonial times. Why deny it? Its a fact of the state of this country today that its still going on and that few will acknowledge it. The thing that teabaggers don’t recognize, and it frustrates me, is that they are being used by the very elitists class that is enslaving them or will eventually do so to a greater degree than already exists.

In the finally analysis our so called “freedom” is not freedom at all. Its a delusional state of mind. This present state of freedom for most of us in the lower working classes is nothing less than a state of indentured servitude to the elites. Freedom today is equated with money or capital, that is not true freedom in its purest sense. We are indentured to the elite corporate state on one degree or another. Many don’t recognize it. The low wage worker who works to pay his electric bill to a gargantuan corporation. You insurance policies paid to another gargantuan corporate entity. Your mortgage being paid to the very elitists who have robbed us blind in the last 30 years. The food you eat, the list goes on and on. Money represents indenturedness of our slavery. Its is what we trade to keep ourselves out of a state of complete squalor for another pay cycle.  Indenturedness equates slavery. Nothing has really changed that much. Why is it too much to demand that the elites share with the indentured populace the wealth that the populace produces for those elites? Is it too much to demand a dignified existence after producing so much wealth for the elitist class? Why should we be disposed of as rotting carcasses when we are no longer useful to produce that wealth that others enjoy?

I met a white racist once who claimed that blacks liked being enslaved so I asked him if he is ready for slavery. He shut up quickly. No one likes slaver but many will do whatever they can to live. What will we tolerate in a slavery based society where it is only the whites of lesser station who are economically or drudge enslaved before it is too much?
[I expect that our new masters will separate the “races” like what was done in old S. Africa before Mandela with bantustans.]

The Tea Partiers claim to be for the “people” but they sing the song of the Libertarian Republican (just free the business man not the worker) but the Drug War is still on and all the other tropes of the elitist mindset. It is also bad that they have so many white faces and not much else. The problem with some Liberal groups also, too white and male dominated. Just like our gov’t.

“You can’t enslave a free man, you can only kill him.”—Robert A. Heinlein

“the caucasian is “progressing” in a negative direction”

It’s not name calling when you make the case against yourself. It’s kind of like someone justifying slavery and not wanting to be labeled racist.

Diminution via name-calling and scape-goating with an
intellectual twist is still the five thousand-year old
practice of the israelis.  Only thugs scapegoat.

Considering the twenty-thousand year-old pyramids, the
language of ancient Egypt, the practices of the
original settlers of the “american” continents, the
caucasian is “progressing” in a negative direction.

Attacking Iran under the guise of engendering
“democracy,” while genociding moslems is scarcely
improvement of humankind.

Ironic.

An ignorant xenophobe calling another ignorant.

Seems like the possibility of reverting back to the Dark Ages is not so far fetched. Feeding people to the lions. Burning people at the stake. Inquisitions. Witch-hunts. Concentration camps. Forced conversions. Purity tests. Mass deportations. Mass exterminations. Genocide. Ethnic cleansing. And on and on. Is it possible that society will revert back to this? Is another holocaust possible? Events point to that possibility. Humanity needs to be cleansed of the cancers that infects it. Religion. Brutal capitalism. Demagoguery. Totalitarianism. Fascism. Corporatism. Fanaticism. Hate.

In spite of all the technology we are not one breath above being barbarians. Mammals who have more in common in nature with our primate cousins the chimpanzees than that higher form of life we take ourselves to be. We got a long way to go on the evolution ladder. In essence and in general we are still more animal than the ideal of what is human since our behavior is governed more by emotion, and instinct, than reason.

When I hear Republicans and Libertarians I question whether they are lower on the evolutionary scale of human development just behind Democrats. Since to me being human means being compassionate and reasonable which would mean a higher moral order and being ethical. We’re are not there yet. We are still more primates than human. We still have a ways to go on the evolutionary scale.

For sure not all commenters on Truth Dig are hired
propagandists. Interesting how the propagandists, the
ignorant and the closed-minded tick themselves off with
my comments.

As far as Mr. Obama´s loving Grandma being dead, the
originators of “-what you do speaks so loud I cannot
hear what you say,” are also dead. The truthfulness of
the saying continues, in spite of their deaths.

As I said before (in another way) I think the Tea Party movement is not a Republican front, it is a protest against the regular Republican Party.  I ran into a posting in another venue allegedly by a Tea-Bagger (now disaffected) which said the same thing, so I’m not the only one with this idea.

scotttpot—I guess I will investigate.  I know some labor unions have called for some kind of action.  March 20 may be a bit early to organize a really big demonstration, and the weather may not be good; late April or early May might be better.

It appears that Democratic Party operatives or sympathizers infiltrated many anti-war groups during the Bush regime in order to use them against Bush, and since Mr. O’s great victory, have been working to stop or at least deflect.  Having many different groups may make this more difficult to do, so it may be an advantageous situation rather than a problem.

It is clear that Mr. O will continue to move to the Right on matters of war and empire until someone or something exacts a political cost for doing so.  A big demonstration could be a first step.

I’m with Ardee on this one.  drbhelthi is baffling ... but that’s probably more than enough time spent on this inane comment already!

I have to wonder though if there are really sources out there which promote this load of internally inconsistent gibberish to the gullible.

Bruce Majors:

You Old Devil Dawg. You got me! I mispelled a word. Can’t get anything past you!

“Lift American Spirit”—Sarah Palin’s left Hand.

Your leader beckons, Genius.

Mister Obama, whom his loving grandmother says was
born in Kenya, has fulfilled NONE of his campaign
promises. Rather, he has accelerated the plan of the
WWII NAZI, who were/are governed by the Rockefeller-
type “illuminati.” 
***************************************
Let’s go ask his grandma…oh wait! She’s DEAD! So you can make up any lying shit you want to, ascribe it to her, and she can’t say it’s wrong.

“Obama’s Granny: If I’m lying when I say you said he was born in Kenya, rise up out of your grave and strike me dead!  I’m waiting…...Oh! Nothing’s happening. That must mean I’m telling the truth!”

Tea-bagger logic.

Anarcissie-You are correct that United For Peace and Justice is Not united with
A.N.S.W.E.R. FOR THE MARCH 20,2010 Washington D.C. protest against the wars.
I do not know why .There are too many peace and justice groups .THis has
shattered any peace movement into a million little pieces. The Internet Machine
has also contributed to apathy with good people doing little but posting
comments that do nothing to pressure politicians or give peace a public face.My
only admiration for the tea baggers stems from the fact that they show up and
yell .

scotttpot—from reading web sites I gather ANSWER has not even hooked up with UFPJ.

I think the Left may be ready to shake off Obama hypnosis and make some trouble about war and empire, but demonstrations, to be effective, need to be very large, and that means very inclusive.  So do you know what’s up with UFPJ?

No Bruce.

What’s amusing is watching you guys slip despearately away from the “values” you once purported to stand for, like Christianity for starters. Not too much daylight between Scott Roeder, Bin Laden, Tom Tancredo or Mullah Omar, eh?

Good talk Bruce.

drbhelthi, February 15 at 5:03 am

It would take a dedicated fan of science fiction literature to fully appreciate your posts here, especially this last one. Or perhaps a person trained in the science of mental health.

“Why has this middle-of-the-road leader inspired
such enthusiastic counter-organizing, and called
forth such venom?”

This question disqualifies itself immediately.
Mister Hussein Obama is not a middle-of-the-road
leader in any sense of various meanings of the word
“middle.”

When we apply the wise saying of the original
settlers/owners of the mis-named “american”
continents, “what you do speaks so loud, I cannot
hear what you say,” the answer is clear.

Mister Obama, whom his loving grandmother says was
born in Kenya, has fulfilled NONE of his campaign
promises. Rather, he has accelerated the plan of the
WWII NAZI, who were/are governed by the Rockefeller-
type “illuminati.” 

These sub-human types were driving the
eugenics program that the A. Hitler
conclave forced upon Europe. They are driving the
euthanasia program included in the “Obama” health
plan. They are driving the genocide-repopulation
plan that hides behind the oil-theft wars in moslem
lands. They are among the leadership of israel and
its false religiosity. They are driving the
plan to attack Iran, with the backing of the
voice of false zionism, an “appointed,”
alleged representative of the US, a woman,
a Mrs. Hillary Clinton. Remove one point
from the ladies´ chalk-board. 

Would anyone care to know the genuine reason for
which a Mr. W. Clinton was recently surgicated?

You’re right.  The Crusades were political.  Joan of Arc was even murdered for politically religious reasons.  The church of God has been used politically ever since the original apostles were killed.  Leaders used to kill the Christians for sport, but the leaders and the politicians decided it was better to use the church politically against the populace than to kill all of them, and God and the populace has been playing second fiddle to Right-Wing money ever since, when the church changes,  guess what? —- Christians will start being killed again.

MarthaA:
Manipulating the meaning of your savior, Jesus, is nothing new. The Council of Nicea was nothing more than a political battle to pick a version of Jesus that would enhance the power of the strongest representative there.  The “Jesus” YOU worship in the King James Bible is an amalgam and rewrite of THOSE “scriptures” that most benefited the religious powers of the time. Jesus as “Jesus” has been manipulated down the ages until it’s hard to recognize the Jewish rabbi who preached empathy and forgiveness as superior to judgment.  For CENTURIES it was HERESY to even mention that Jesus was Jewish.  The Medieval and Gothic image of Jesus was as a terrifying and unforgiving judge who would, on Judgment Day, send anyone not TOTALLY subservient to the Church straight to Hell.  The Tympanum at Vezelay, in France, and the mosaics of the Chora, in Istanbul, perpetuate this frightening image.

So don’t be surprised that right wing fascists exploit Jesus to THEIR advantage as well.

If the Right-Wing Media machine decides to fake Left to go Right, they just might show up.  The Right is trying to shut down Obama and if they can use the movement against the war to fake an appearance of outrage against what President Obama is doing, they will.  It would be a total fake,  but remember, it is OK to lie and a lie right now would appear that the Republicans are against what President Obama is doing with the war, but if the jingoistic Republicans were in power, they would be at the same thing, or worse.  Republicans have no intention of really stopping their war for profit and neither do the jingoistic Democrats; only the populace are dying and want the war stopped, and the populace have allowed themselves to be made jingoistically insignificant, while they are the MAJORITY POPULATION of the United States.  It is really ludicrous that the United States populace are so passive after having lost 4,377 American soldiers to corporate private wars while the British are up in arms account 179 of their British soldiers have been killed.  It seems there must be subliminal passive coming through the TV’s or something is in the water in America, because the populace receives no benefit what so ever from these corporate mercenary wars of doubled down lies, only sacrifice.

Anarcissie, February 14 at 3:13 pm #

I’ll repeat that you can use words any way you want.  However, if you use socialism to mean Welfarism and communism to mean fascism, it will be difficult to discuss political theory coherently and there will be many misunderstandings.
**************************************************

Wow. I’m impressed.  Nice job on this post Anarcissie, especially the finally summing-up sentence, which is perfect.  I never thought there would be ANYTHING we could agree on.

Anarcissie-A.N.S.W.E.R. is organizing to converge on Washington D.C.
March 20 , 2010 , the Seventh Anniversary of the Iraq War. The British have had a
full on inquiry into the lies that led them into the war.People are livid over a war
that cost 179 British lives.Contrast that with the fact that there have been 4,377
Americans killed or 24 times more people than than the British , yet there is little
outrage among Americans or calls for accountability.Our Nation numbed by info
and info- tainment . I am hopeful people will show up on March 20. The question
is will the Television machine dare show us and interview our leaders?

The Goal of Modern Propaganda: Mythocracy

By Cindy Sheehan


      “The goal of modern propaganda is no longer to transform opinion but to arouse an active and mythical belief.” Jacques Ellul

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article24676.htm

I am proud of what Cindy Sheehan is doing and has done since her son’s death to combat the corporate mercenary wars for profit using our nations soldiers against the populace of our country’s best interest.   

Just like the propaganda wars, the Tea Party is a propaganda campaign of myth to fool the populace. 

Socialism is what our country needs along with Capitalism, just not private Capitalism.  We need to socialize Capitalism so that society isn’t always having to pay for private Capitalism’s greed.

Demonizing and lies are presented as fact, but according to Fact Check, nothing has to be fact that is reported, so Republican reports could easily not be fact.  Our government is cool with lies being presented as fact, otherwise, lies as fact would not be considered freedom of speech, but they are.  Lies as facts are legal.  It was reported on the news today, and to check it out on Fact Check (http://www.factcheck.org/SpecialReports188.html) and I did, sadly, it is so.  Of course, lies told by the populace is a whole different story, since the populace aren’t involved in making the laws,  but as far as the politicians and the professionals are concerned whatever you can get the populace to believe is legal, which is actually a double standard, because when the Ponzi Schemers use their lies, they are sent to prison for the damage they do, and to me it is the exact same thing.

Right-Wing sophists and propagandists spread disinformation (lies) as if it is legitimate objective facts and lumpen-proletariat Right-Wingers follow the disinformation (lies) spread by Right-Wing sophists and propagandists against their own best interests as if it is “Holy Writ” from God; and, everyone watching the dumb show in both the Republican Party and Democratic Party leadership go along to get along, because they all know that playing the game helps both the Democratic Party and the Republican Party maintain political control over the 70% Majority Common Population, the American Populace, Back Street America, and denies the American Populace representation by a legitimate political party and a seat at the legislative table to make and enforce law and order that is in the best interest of the American populace.  Denying the American populace is the American Way and the denial of the American populace is ironically all done in the name of God, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness with freedom and justice for all— propaganda and sophistry.

It was said on a news report today that my state of Oklahoma is one of the 6th hungriest states in the nation and we know those hungry people are of the liberal American populace, but since this is a conservative Republican state, ironically they are probably all voting Republican against their best interest and never knowing why, because they believe like children the disinformation, misinformation, propaganda and sophistry told to them by the politicians, the media and the propagandized churches.

E.J. is missing the religious element. Because Obama is pro-choice, many on the right feel free to demonize him, some even calling him the devil. They dismiss more reasoned assessments of Obama, even when such an assessment comes from the Vatican itself, so much has abortion distorted their politics.

Arnicissie:

Thanks for the clarification. And you’re right, the two terms were once interchangeable.

As for the viability of the communist state, I don’t think humankind has yet reached the point that would allow it to exist as defined by Marx. Capitalism has not yet automated itself to the point that it negates the working class sufficiently to drive such an overthrow. I think we are starting to see those types of conditions emerge, though. Not only is automation removing both blue and white collar positions, the fact that we can have a successful and proseperous stock market amid a jobless recovery is perhaps the most ominous sign. 

The communists of the 20th century simply partook in a form of State sponsored capitalism. They skipped the important step of a negated working calss in what Marx clearly argued was the natural evolution of economies. Until then, you are absolutely right to assert that communism is only successful in small, intimate, immediate groups. Once technology removes the need for a majority of human labor, the populace will have no choice but to act just to obtain necessities of life. I don’t know where that tipping point is and I don’t know in what form that uprising will take, but the cracks in monolith are widening.

There’s a personality type called Right Wing Authoritarianism that researchers have been studying since the end of World War II and which describes teabaggers, well, to a T.
Authoritarians are, among other things, ultra-conventional, ethnocentric, angry, dogmatic, illogical, aggressive and untruthful.  John Dean covered the subject in his book “Conservatives Without Conscience”, in which he draws upon the work of psychologist Robert Altemeyer.  Altemeyer has an online book titled “The Authoritarians”.  If you’re not already familiar with the subject, I highly recommend you check it out.  You’ll find it enlightening.

Gerard—Sadly,The media that controls us and decides our issues is the
television media.  The television is why we are even discussing tea baggers and
not Universal Single Payer Healthcare.The television media muddied the water
enough to convince a majority of Americans that torture by our government is
acceptable and necessary.. They are disgusting. An Axis of Liars.
Their power to misinform , divide , control us is unmatched and
insurmountable .
I will do what I can ,but I have no illusions that peace will come thru anything I
or our movement does , because the Television machine always decides .If it is
not on Television it is as if it never happened. Kill your Television . I did.
Watching Television for the “good shows’’ is like eating a Big Mac for the
lettuce.

scotttpot, February 14 at 4:35 am:
‘There is a peace movement and there will be hundreds of thousands of protesters on March 20th….”

Where?  Who is organizing it?

In regard to socialism and communism:  I was just giving the definition of socialism which the original 19th-century socialists proposed.  Of course the word has come to mean many different things, but I think the ownership or control of the means of production by the workers gives the gist of the fundamental idea as it has been promoted by those who favor it. 

Communism is the absence of private property relations.  While this sort of arrangement can be observed in families, communes and other small human groupings, to my knowledge there has never been and probably never could be a communist state.  Sometimes states have been called “Communist” because they were controlled by a Communist party, but the political arrangements in such states have been closer to the definition of fascism given my Mussolini than to socialism or small-c communism.  The Communists themselves usually asserted that they were “building socialism”, socialism being according to Marx the predecessor of the utopia of communism, not that they had actually instituted communism.

Opponents of these ideas have of course been eager to confuse them with authoritarianism, fascism, violence and terror.  This is the error the Tea-Baggers have fallen into, but they are hardly the first.

Welfare, such as government subsidies for rent, is not socialism by the above definition; it is a way of preserving capitalism and existing property relations.  It has generally been employed to counter and forestall socialism.

I’ll repeat that you can use words any way you want.  However, if you use socialism to mean Welfarism and communism to mean fascism, it will be difficult to discuss political theory coherently and there will be many misunderstandings.

Money grubbing preachers and politicians do use propaganda and sophism, and many myths have been created about our country, but Jesus the Christ is not one of the myths.  The Holy Bible is the Word of God and righteous fervent prayer to God will effect change. 

The conservatives who claim to be God’s people through the blood of Jesus fall short in following the Word of God in the New Testament.  Therefore, the Conservative Movement is now in the process of rewriting the Word of God so that it will be conservative and antisocial to their satisfaction, because there has been no one more liberal than Jesus and a liberal Jesus doesn’t fit into the Conservative agenda. 

I was listening to a Republican talking on TV this am and he was recommending that a Third Party would be a good thing for the next election, and that is because it would make it easier for the Republicans to get back into power by dividing the populace vote.

We do need a Third Party, but the 3rd parties we have now can’t get the job done.  It reminds me of a situation I had when I was given $10,000. by a friend in a will, but to contest the will would cost more than was given in the will.  I worked hard at writing and filing for the court everything I could in my defense, which was all worthless because none of it could not be used in court, which is the same with 3rd Party politics, you can do all you can, but you will not be considered equal, because there are only two parties that are allowed to hold equal power.  To have a 3rd Party would require an Act of Congress institutionalizing the 3rd Party equal in every way with the Democratic Party and the Republican Party.  Independent is NOT a party, only a single individual seat without the back up of a political party.  Independents are subject to the Rules and Bylaws of the Democratic Party and the Republican Party without any choice, as is any other 3rd Party, because of the Two-Party Political System.  If there is a 3rd Party institutionalized, our government would then be a Three-Party Political System, which is what is needed; a 3rd institutionalized political party to represent the populace would be a benefit, but that is not what our government currently has.  All a 3rd Party right now does is help the Republicans, no matter how you slice it..

Scottpot:  I have an answer—but of course it’s too much work:  BE the media.  Means, organize, Means get on the phones and the net and speak out, recruit, tell why, don’t rant and rave but speak with a voice that is engagine and knowledgeable and kind.  Distribute fliers and brochures in millions of public places.  Donate money to print those brochures.  Use friendly, non-threatening methods to discuss issues with friends, family, people you meet casually.  Show good manners.  Smile. 
  That’s a lot better than media can ever do. But of course, as I said, it’s work, takes time and care.

There is a peace movement and there will be hundreds of thousands of protesters
on March 20th,protesting the wars in Iraq,Afghanistan,and Pakistan.
And if history is any guide we will be ignored .Maybe a celebrity will die or Tiger
Woods will go on Oprah but there will surely be something more important than
covering the anti-war movement .The media decides.

Back to the beginning of Dionne’s article:  “The ferocity of its (the right wing’s) opposition to President Barack Obama is mystifying to political progressives. Most of the left simply doesn’t see the current occupant of the White House as especially liberal, let alone socialist.”

I doubt that many “progressives” are “mystified,” Mr. Dionnne.  The reaction is easily predictable because media and government have spent years making “socialist” a dirty word to be used against any objectionable politician or political idea—a shibboleth to scare people who don’t understand what is going on around them.  And why scare people?

To make them easy to herd in any given direction, to turn them into fearful, enraged followers who are sure they are right and everybody with a different idea is wrong. Preachers use this method all the time to herd people into believing in myths that make them feel secure in an insecure world—at least temporarily.

The Dems are infested with conservative DLC corporate cronies, but in time they can be voted out in the Primaries, if the populace gets engaged en masse. Unless a new 3rd Party is made that is equivalent with the Democratic Party and the Republican Party in every way there is no 3rd Party chance, and I don’t see that happening until the populace gets engaged en masse.

While I’m inclined to agree with ardee, I wonder if there is a viable 3rd
party option. The greens seem more of shell than the dems right now.
Can’t say how many times I’ve given them my info to volunteer and they
haven’t even bothered to put me on a mailing list much less take me up on
my offer.

E.J.

WHAT “mystery”?????  There’s no mystery to red-neck racism.

If one seeks to actively combat the silencing of the progressive bloc within the Democratic Party I am all for it, go at it. If one believes that one can change the rightward spiral of that party through the primary process, again, have at it.

I , however, refuse to believe that a third party solution is untenable and will work, as I have in the past, for the growth of such a party. There are choices to be made and Martha makes hers as I make mine. I see the Democratic Party as beyond saving, having sold their souls for corporate cash, others do not.

To those who disparage the third party movement I say continue to work within the Democratic Party. To those who insult the work of those like me who choose to abandon a party that has long abandoned me I ask to guess which finger I’m holding up…..

Any political voting out of spite will only hurt the populace further.  The populace Left needs to converge in mass force on the Democratic Party in the same manner the Right-Wing Conservatives converged on the Republican Party,  and remake the Democratic Party through the Primary Election Process, which is exactly what the Right-Wing Conservatives have done to the Republican Party, and are trying to do to the Democratic Party.  The populace of the United States must not allow the Right-Wing’s corporate conservative elite to continue their takeover of the Democratic Party through their conservative sophism and propaganda campaigns across the nation against the populace, the liberal left.  The populace must wake up in mass and en masse take our Democratic Party back for the populace, the real Liberal Left.

There are NO liberals in the Republican Party.  In the Primary Election Process the Republicans regularly take liberals out of the Republican Party.  Liberal and socialism have been made dirty words, but 90% of the populace are the liberal Left and rely on a liberal government in one way or another.

Anyone who isn’t an autocratic conservative is not allowed in the Republican Party.  In the Primary Election Process the populace needs to do the same to the Democratic Party and take out of the Democratic Party in the Primary Election Process all who ARE conservatives.  When the democratic populace has only liberal Liberals on the Left and the corporate autocratic elite have only conservative Conservatives on the Right, the political system will be balanced.  The populace must do all possible to vote in political balance and vote the conservative autocratic corruption out of the Democratic Party.  We CAN do it, but it will take time.  Be patient and don’t give up.  It took over 40 years for the elites.  The corporate elite didn’t take over the Republican Party through a 3rd Party and neither will the populace be able to take over the Democratic Party through a 3rd Party; it must be done through the Democratic Party.  If the populace en masse try, the populace will get our country back, through the Democratic Party;  NEVER by voting REPUBLICAN, no matter how populace the Republicans appear.  Remember our nation only has two institutionalized political parties, a third party will not be allowed to even debate equally, much less get their votes counted equally.  The Democratic Party is the populace’s party and en mass the populace needs to take back the Democratic Party every Primary Election Process until it is done and it will never be finished, it is a forever ongoing process keeping democracy.

MarthaA:  Thank you very much.  Jeff Cohen’s analysis makes sense.  For many strong reasons he is again arguing against formation of a third party.  He advocates working as progressives to demand that the Demos shape up and persisting with grassroots organizing. If this is to succeed, certainly Green and Laboar interests have to be engaged, and the work of melding “people’s” issues should be going on right now.
  Lots of anger here on TD seems to be moving more toward a “Coffee-baggers’” movement—maybe more out of spite than out of reasoned thinking???

Well said MarthaA.

If you watched the video interviews of Professor Cohen, then you know that the Free Market is only a soft cover for the government sanctioning corporatism, or fascism, which I will restate, since apparently they weren’t read by all:

Progressives and the Democratic Party - Part 1:
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=4775

Progressives and the Democratic Party - Part 2:
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=4783

Progressives and the Democratic Party - Part 3:
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=4786

Progressives and the Democratic Party - Part 4:
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=4787

Society is the system of community life in which individuals form a continuous and regulatory association for their mutual benefit and protection, and Socialism is the social cohesion that binds a group of people, a city, a county, a state, and a nation together to provide benefit to all that are a part of the society of the aforementioned groups.  This system is currently used in the United States and has been used since the beginning of the United States and is the glue that holds the nation together.  Anyone can deny this, but to do so would be to say that the freeways are not a part of a social institution, the water towers are not a part of a social institution, government buildings, e.g.; Federal, State, County/City Courthouses are not a part of a social institution, that all societal infrastructure is not part of a system of social institutions and that the Government itself is not a part of a system of social institutions, which would be a ludicrous claim.

The choice between Capitalism and Socialism is a false choice —— capital is indifferent as to who owns capital.

Capitalism is an Economic System, while Socialism is a Governmental System, there is NO EQUIVALENCE between the two.

The REAL choice is the choice of who owns capital, private interests or socialist interests.

Those who perpetuate the myth that the only choice is that choice between Capitalism and Socialism are doing nothing more than diverting the dialogue away from private ownership of capital as opposed to socialist ownership of capital—— private ownership of capital that is in the best interest of the greater greed of a minority of the population, or socialist ownership of capital that is in the best interest of the greater good of the majority interest of the population.

What is CAPITAL? ——answer this question and then ask yourself, why does an asset that provides a revenue stream have to be owned by private interests, rather than socialist interests?

I think by now that anyone not residing under a rock, without ever coming out into the light of day, knows that socialist interests bear the responsibility of maintaining the value of capital owned by private interests. 

Why on earth, when socialist interests are responsible for maintaining the value of capital would socialized interests not be interested in direct ownership of the “assets that provide a revenue stream” for which they are made to be responsible for maintaining the value of? 

There needs to be socialized ownership of capital, so that the populace will not continually be left holding the bag while private interests go off happily giving millions of dollars in bonuses to whoever they choose, with the populace being unable to do anything about it,  even though the populace, after paying the debt of private interests, are unable to afford health care, because private interests are unwilling to see any need for the populace to have health care or anything else.  Capitalism survives by taking away everything from the populace, which is highly unChristian, as the Republicans purport to be.

It is time for a change.

Society is the system of community life in which individuals form a continuous and regulatory association for their mutual benefit and protection, and Socialism is the social cohesion that binds a group of people, a city, a county, a state, and a nation together to provide benefit to all that are a part of the society of the aforementioned groups.  This system is currently used in the United States and has been used since the beginning of the United States and is the glue that holds the nation together.  Anyone can deny this, but to do so would be to say that the freeways are not a part of a social institution, the water towers are not a part of a social institution, government buildings, e.g.; Federal, State, County/City Courthouses are not a part of a social institution, that all societal infrastructure is not part of a system of social institutions and that the Government itself is not a part of a system of social institutions, which would be a ludicrous claim.

The choice between Capitalism and Socialism is a false choice —— capital is indifferent as to who owns capital.

Capitalism is an Economic System, while Socialism is a Governmental System, there is NO EQUIVALENCE between the two.

The REAL choice is the choice of who owns capital, private interests or socialist interests.

Those who perpetuate the myth that the only choice is that choice between Capitalism and Socialism are doing nothing more than diverting the dialogue away from private ownership of capital as opposed to socialist ownership of capital—— private ownership of capital that is in the best interest of the greater greed of a minority of the population, or socialist ownership of capital that is in the best interest of the greater good of the majority interest of the population.

What is CAPITAL? ——answer this question and then ask yourself, why does an asset that provides a revenue stream have to be owned by private interests, rather than socialist interests?

I think by now that anyone not residing under a rock, without ever coming out into the light of day, knows that socialist interests bear the responsibility of maintaining the value of capital owned by private interests. 

Why on earth, when socialist interests are responsible for maintaining the value of capital would socialized interests not be interested in direct ownership of the “assets that provide a revenue stream” for which they are made to be responsible for maintaining the value of? 

There needs to be socialized ownership of capital, so that the populace will not continually be left holding the bag while private interests go off happily giving millions of dollars in bonuses to whoever they choose, with the populace being unable to do anything about it,  even though the populace, after paying the debt of private interests, are unable to afford health care, because private interests are unwilling to see any need for the populace to have health care or anything else.  Capitalism survives by taking away everything from the populace, which is highly unChristian, as the Republicans purport to be.

No_Man’s_Land, Arnicissie doesn’t knowthe difference between socialism and communism. You’ve explained it adequately.

Simply put, under communism the state owns the means of production. Under what I see as socialism the individual may, can and should own the means of production, government should own as little as is feasible. In both instances the theory is for the common good. One does not work the other does because it is a form of regulated capitalism that doesn’t take profits as its primary goal. The common good and efficiency are the common goals. The free market system is only for the good of the individual without or with little regard for the common good especially to those most vulnerable on the bottom social scale. It is based on greed, self interest and legalized corruption. Free market capitalism defies humanistic principles. For free market demagogues somehow the common good will result while being guided by some magical invisible hand. This has been dis-proven over and over again. Free market capitalism is like letting the rats loose in a cheese factory.

The British healthcare system is owned by the state. In principle I consider it communistic. On the other hand the health system I’d like to see in the US is one that is pretty much privately structured the way it is now with the government paying the bill with tax dollars. Yes that evil satanic word taxes. The present market system that we have now is a free for all and we have little or no say in the way it operates. The rats a re loose in the cheese factory. So in essence socialism takes the both of both worlds and integrates for the common benefit of all individually and collectively.

So too much government is bad.
Too little government is worse.
Needed and essential government is good and necessary.
A 1st grader can understand that.

Those are great interviews Martha!

Socialism has become a fear word since the early 20th century. Thanks to the socialist we had a labor movement movement and we got the 8 hour day, child labor laws, women’s voting right, Social Security, Medicare, etc. etc. and some sanity to the insanity of laissez faire. In essence, the so called American dream was built on socialist fundamentals. Now that is being taken away by undoing the progress made under FDR’s New Deal and LBJ’s Great Society.

Actually the Tea Baggers are doing a favor to those of us that have socialist leanings by putting that word out there to the point were it won’t be the fear word that they want it to make it. Overuse does have its advantages. All us socialists have to do is sit back and watch the clowns at the Tea Bag Circus and on election day go and vote them down.

If the opposite of the Tea Baggers agenda is socialism then I want socialism and I want to be labeled a Socialist. With a capital S.

Socialism!
Socialism!
Socialism!
Socialism!
Socialism!

Hooray for Socialism!

Arnicissie:

I’m not sure its accurate to classify socialism as a 1 for 1 ownership of the means. I think more accurately its the redistribution of wealth into the capitalist market where the controls are seen more in price manipulation/suppression than direct management of the product or service. Communism lends itself more to direct government ownership by which the government directly manages an industry and labor is directly employed by the state. Its the difference between something like Medicare and the Military. Also, socialism allows for private ownership whereas communism is based on public ownership. For instance, government subsidized rent programs that pay the difference between the tenant’s contribution and the market price is the socialist approach. The landlord builds equity but probably pays higher property tax. Versus the communist approach of government owned/managed housing. One allows for the landlord to continue to build equity in the asset while the other is not concerned with equity or return on investment.

Here, in 4 parts, is the real low down from the Real News on the real Republican Tea Party, the Progressives and the Democratic Party:

Progressives and the Democratic Party - Part 1:
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=4775

Progressives and the Democratic Party - Part 2:
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=4783

Progressives and the Democratic Party - Part 3:
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=4786

Progressives and the Democratic Party - Part 4:
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=4787

Tea Baggers are full of contradictions. They’re anti-government but always seem to be quoting the US Constitution. Well isn’t that very Constitution that establishes government?

Albeit, the Constitution has the ambiguity of the Bible and open to every kind of interpretation and conclusion to support opposing ideologies, even fanatical ones where ideologues blanket themselves with these documents. The truth is that the US Constitution is a compromise document drawn up by individuals that where in many ways ideologically opposed in many areas and had huge disagreements. So its ambiguity was perhaps intentional allowing reflecting only what these individuals agreed on and the language to reflect what was agreed upon and because of this ambiguity it has the flexibility to support just about any political agenda or ideology. In addition it has the flexibility to be amended and repealed to reflect the changing societal dynamics that come with change. With democracy as a fundamental principle it comes down to being more of us than there is of them.

Quote:
“I hope lefties don’t start attacking the real Tea Party and playing into the rhetoric that it’s racist”

Really? Well all the signs are out there. Get it? The signs?

I would agree with the premise that some Tea Partiers and their ilk are motivated by “principled anti-government radicalism” if it were not for their incendiary emotionalism coupled with the absence of any raving vehemence from that quarter over the Bush administration’s big government foray into American lives through ‘No Child” and the Patriot Act.  I am not saying that some of these people did not object to Bush’s power grab, though I have no evidence that they did.  But the point is, that even if they did not like those laws, they did not take up pitchforks and guns to yell their full throated objections in mass demonstrations.  It is precisely the near homicidal vehemence of their objections to President Obama that convinces me that Tea Party Patriot is how you spell KKK when the sheets are left at home. Moreover, States Rights, original intent and control the deficits by cutting both taxes and benefits have always been he smoke screen of racism in America.

Socialism is the ownership or control of the means of production by the workers.  There is no socialist state in existence in the world today, and there probably never has been.  The largest socialist entity is probably the Mondragon cooperative in Spain, which, the last time I looked, had about 30,000 members.

Obama is not remotely a socialist.  Politically, like most Democrats, he is cautious and conservative.  His programs and policies greatly resemble those of the late phase of his predecessor’s regime, although his style is of course different. 

The combination of corporate and governmental power we have been witnessing over recent decades should probably be called “fascism” since it seems to follow Mussolini’s definition: “Everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.”

DBM,

I think you’re absolutely right. It would very wise of them to do that. I think th tea party movement could gain a lot of mementum if first, they reject the politics of division, and second align their economic platform with the complaints they cite about corporatism. They suffer from a very self-contradictory set of complaints and demands. When we scream and holler about corporatism, and then demand that those same corporations have more rights,fewer restrictions, and fewer people to enforce what laws remain (the govt), then all they are doing is ordering a diet coke with their super-sized burger and fries and calling it a diet.

I think all agree that democracy is in grave danger. But we don’t fix democracy by making it an elite club for only those who fit Tancredo’s vision of purity. The only way to counter corporatism is with more democracy and less corruption, and it starts with reversing Citizens United. Without that change and a move to a public campaign finance system that distributes dollars and air time fairly, there will be no democracy.

ardee, February 12 at 11:01 am #

All by their little selves? A filibuster proof majority for one year and what exactly did your Democrats accomplish? There can be no real solutions until we shatter Martha’s illusion.
****************************************************

You confuse unimaginable inexcusable incompetence and cowardice by Dims with down-right malevolence by Re-Thugs.

No Man,

Of course you’re right ... the Tea Bag conference (in the Gaylord Hotel) showed that, at least the ones who get to their conferences, are the racists.  That Tancredo wasn’t booed off the stage puts paid to all Johnqpublius’ reasonable complaint. 

They have valid complaints but they’d be better off moaning about corporate dominance of government (real fascism) than some imaginary “socialism” boogeyman.

Johnqpublius

I assume of course when you cite “pre utopian” history that you mean such
a grand times as late 19th century america and the child sweatshop days?
When private law enforcement conducted company sponsored railroad
jobs of workers it didn’t like. When companies provided the prosecuting
attornies for the same cases they were plaintiffs in? Or perhaps the 1850s
when private fire departments fought each other for profits rather than put
out fires while towns burned? Maybe we should go back a bit further to
such utopian ideals as democratic governance itself? Perhaps the magna
carta?

No need for bookshelves or even books where you’re leading us.

I built a bookcase in 2003 the other three things on your list I did today. Going to a tavern and spouting my beliefs that our country is on the wrong track to a bunch of drunk patriotic Americans I have not done. Its what needs to be done. Its what Ben Cartright would do.

I’d probably be better off building a bookcase, cleaning my house, reading a child a book, or trying to seduce a woman than commenting again here; but it really does boil down to socialism’s, and most other ‘isms’, really bad track record.

To anyone with even a cursory knowledge of pre-Utopian history, it is painfully clear that Socialism and it’s variants have been closely linked to toxic side effects when prescribed for the ills of society ... Closer in efficacy to the misguided practice of bleeding people for their own good than the more productive policy of not getting in the way of them doing the best for themselves.

There’s a good reason why Tea Party proponents make the unclear and contradictory statements noted by some commenters here and exhibited by others.  It’s because there is no grassroots Tea Party “movement” - unless one chooses to call a right wing media creation a “movement”.  See http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/feb2010/teap-f09.shtml for analysis.

As for those who profess that the “movement” is about libertarianism:  Yeah, sure it is.  Right wingers are libertarian only when it comes to the government doing things to them.  They are statists when it comes to the government messing with other people, especially people they don’t like. 

The politicians and corporate media people who created the Tea Party chimera tell their fanatic followers that Obama is a socialist, and the followers, having not the vaguest idea what socialism really is, and disinclined to research it themselves, are eager to swallow and regurgitate it in statements that are inevitably confused because they are driven by emotion rather than understanding. 

Socialism is the natural result of a properly functioning democracy - as opposed to the corporatist distortion of democracy we have in the U.S.A. - socialism is an informed and socially conscious public helping their representatives to do what’s both just and best for their country.

JohnQPublius

You sound like a reasonable and rational person. If you are, then you’ll read the article I’ve linked you to, which does an excellent job of explaining why the tea party movement is a self defeating effort for us all.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-02-08/the-tea-partiers-phony-populism/

However, all of that aside, as I’ve posted earlier this movement has a crossed a rubicon by scapegoating innocent hard-wroking people for the nation’s problems. Tacredo’s rant was overtly racist and the audience cheered him. The segregationaist rhetoric was appaling and all rational people should not only decry it, but disassociate from it. If not, I can have nothing to do with them no matter how justified they feel.

As usual, E.J. has some things right, but, as always, he has some fundamental things wrong.

I can’t speak for all the “teabaggers”, but I know that I was proud of my country for electing Obama even though I smelled a true socialist and shared those fears with liberals/progressives of my acquaintance.

We are not racists at heart, nor are we ignorant or selfish.  We share a common belief in the ideals of maximum individual liberty, self responsibility, unmediated and untainted self-sacrifice to care for our immediate others, and empathy and charity for those less fortunate who did not have the talents or wherewithal to build a satisfying life in a real world where equal results are impossible, but equal rights to justice and self expression are axiomatic.

We are not fools who believe that government has no place in our lives, but we all innately buy into the Jeffersonian ideal that a government governs best which governs least.

... and a great number of us have had the satisfaction of having made a few payrolls or more by the sweat of our brows and the freedom to do our best without need for a nanny state to tell us what to do or how to do it.

Intellectuals can slice and dice and deconstruct us to their hearts content, but they can never live our lives nor that of anyone else ... real lives can only take place in an individual’s own real time.

Guess what E.J.? We are for real. We believe in our souls that we have a responsibility, and through the ideals of this great nation, we have the all too rare opportunity to once again validate the sacrifices of our forebears, and stand up to the powers of those who mistakenly think they know better than we do what is best for ourselves.

I’ll take care of myself for now thank you. As I have not yet lived under a tyranny, I have done it without needing any collective movement or organization to protect my rights ... my objective is to keep it that way.

Yet I sense with good reason that my personal freedom is being attacked as never before in my lifetime. Therefore I choose to be part of this ad hoc collective of tea partiers. They are, as far as I can tell thus far, very honorable, decent and serious people. It won’t last, collectives never do, but I truly hope that it lasts long enough to slow down or possibly even reverse the trajectory of this nation towards mediocrity.

If there is a higher destiny for there to be a global culture predicated on freedom, peace and prosperity, it must be grounded in the “natural law” of American ideals, and can only be sustained by the might and will of its adherents. If there is not, then maybe Hobbes was right. Either way, I will fight for what I have, and fight for what I believe is best for my family, my employees, my clients, my city and my nation. I can’t save the world, but I can’t even begin to express my gratitude for what this nation has given me and those I love.

My children, should they desire to live the life of relative freedom, security and joy that I have been blessed with and have passed onto them as best I could, will probably have to fight for it themselves when their time comes.

Gweets they started calling themselves that early on so it isn’t a slight now is it? Just because they were unaware of the sexual slang is irrelevant isn’t it? How can we “bad mouth” them with their own words of identification?

Too many of them only came out when a Democrat came into office. Even though he is following in the goose steps of the previous presidents in our fascist move to the reich since 1980. The Tea Partiers have turned their ire to Ron Paul running three candidates against him should tell you where most of their sentiments are. But if you were informed instead of propagandized you would know this. Just as you would know that for a “liberal” none support Obama because he is too much like Bush! It took awhile for the scales to fall from their eyes because they fell for the fatuous hype out of desperation. It is an excellent motivation to fool people.

We needed the bail outs but not the way they were used. Without “strings” it is still business as usual as was planned. The next time it falls there will be no money to prop it up again. Then the crypto fascists who are orchestrating this will get their empire they have been salivating for since 1934, when they last failed.[They wanted to join the Axis and win the war—-a very different place it would be here now if they had. Look it up Lt. General Smedley “Gimlet Eye” Butler  who saved us and got fired for it by FDR who covered it up and punished none of the “Fraternity” made up of so many of the richest families and their corporations (most still in existence) almost got it. Our gov’t was clueless about it.]

The attacks on Obama actually help him keep to the reich way or third way as it was know in the early last century, because it acts as a smoke screen. As if you were pressing you thumb on a weighing machine falsely tipping the balance while the real weight is increased for real only not as much as they say it is.

“Yes its true that the Tea Baggers have valid reasons to be upset. So did the German people through the 20’s and 30’s. But at what point do rational men and women stop to take a look at what’s happening, and stand against them? At what point should the German people have stood to say no? Valid complaints or not, this rabid bunch has allowed itself to be seduced into scapegoating innocent people and history will remember those who rose against them.”No_Man’s_Land

And as we see the “Liberals & Progressives are the enemy” as we are told on the radio and TV dinned out and in writing for hundreds of hours every day. Welcome to the new Jews. As that prolific movie producer and writer (he went on to make over 700 movies) Joseph Goebbels once said,“If Jews didn’t exist we would have to create them.” He understood how important a macguffin was to a plot. Especially for taking over a country.

Look up the 14 points to a fascist dictatorship, we fit many of them right now. Also read the two Naomis’ books, Klein & Wolf will give you the information you need to see the reality around us.

One huge problem that must be fixed immediately:
Deliverately denying citizens meaningful access to government and to media. 
  Millions of us have been writing letters, making phone calls, working with organizations for years to try to redirect a corporate-dominated government owned and operated by war industries. 
  Nothing from us gets through either to government or media because the corporations want to continue making trillions of dollars off of energy and killing people. They seem not to care about ordinary people at all.
  If you cut off people’s access to their government you destroy democracy.  It’s as simple and as dangerous as that.  The people who rise up will probably not be those who are most sophisticated and knowledgeable but those who are tne angriest
and the most fear-driven.  Sad but true.
  The answer:  Jobs NOW.  Stop bailing out the rich
and selling out the poor.  Stop the wars. Build peace and a more just economy.

DBM

“My point is that the Tea Baggers have valid reasons to be upset other than racism ... just no clue what to do about it.”

That may be, but what does it say that they will not just tolerate, but applaud the racist rants of the Tancredos and Palins?

You know brother, I’ve seen the mass graves inside and outside of Sarajevo. I saw the massacre at Srebrenica. Those people were scapegoated for their country’s problems without merit too. So at what point do we stand to stop them? Do we wait until we’re at 30% unemployment as opposed to the current 10%?

I never thought I’d see the day that last year’s VP candidate and a sitting member of the congress would spew such vile, arbitrary hatred meant solely to egg on the social instability of this country by pitting Americans against one another. This is how it starts. This is how it always starts.

Yes its true that the tea baggers have valid reasons to be upset. So did the German people through the 20’s and 30’s. But at what point do rational men and women stop to take a look at what’s happening, and stand against them? At what point should the German people have stood to say no? Valid complaints or not, this rabid bunch has allowed itself to be seduced into scapegoating innocent people and history will remember those who rose against them.

So many here criticize the supposed ignorance of those who express their dissatisfaction with the actions of the current state of affairs yet you take all your info from a single view, that of the effluent-stream media.
Anyone here actually asked folks who are part of the Tea Party movement what they truly seek rather than listen to the sound bites prepared and edited by CNN, Faux, or the other alphabet shills?  Ever talk to more than, say, your 3 token friends whom you consider “conservative?” 
Let me see if I can help.  There are those who oppose Obama and his current gang of thieves and also opposed HRH George II and his lackeys. And George I and Clinton and Reagan and Kennedy and Roosevelt and all the other (s)elected puppets going back at least 100 years.  The core of that opposition that is partially manifested in the Tea Parties is the desire for a return to personal liberty and a Constitutional Republic, something we have been losing since before the War Between then States and which is rapidly completely disappearing.
We currently have a socialist public government.
We currently have a fascist economy.
We currently live in what is rapidly becoming a democracy.
We are ruled by people who know exactly what they are doing. Their goals are to control you and me.  TO confiscate what little property we still can lay claim to.  To make sure they tell you how free you are despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Because most have no clue what it means to be a free person. 
Maybe if more of us had attended that one hour period in skool where you were asked to read the Constitution, this debate would be less contentious. You, like the part where all rights not specifically delegated…  or the part defining how taxes may be levied…or that troublesome amendment about free speech…or the definition of money…
Here’s a novel thought.  How about all of you go read what rights you have because you are a human being and how some of those are articulated and reinforced clearly in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and then compare notes with your friends and then let’s see if you make the same noises.

Go ahead, I’ll wait….

Fear plus naivete is a dangerous combination in public affairs.  Fear makes you feel like you must do something, anything—and now.  Naivete means you don’t know enough to decide what is best to do, or the best way to do it.
  Statements coming out of the Tea Party people indicate nothing so much as fear and naivete—creating a perfect vacuum for exploitation.
  People have reasons to fear the present complicated and dangerous world.  Evidence of various kinds of losses are presented vividly on the tube every day, but gains are strangely absent.
  People have reasons for being naive—inadequate public education and media whose words are bought and sold by corporations and government mendacity.
  Anybody who sincerely wants to help human beings find their way out of a viscious impasse in history will work hard every day to help people overcome fear and naivete so they can’t be exploited.

“That is “simplyamazing”....you mention the Tea Party’s desire to bad mouth and then go on to use the derogatory term tea-bagger. “

Uh ... the other comments were from people bad-mouthing the the Tea Party, as was the original poster.

That is “simplyamazing”....you mention the Tea Party’s desire to bad mouth and then go on to use the derogatory term tea-bagger. Getting back to the article that Mr Dionne wrote, he says that the stimulus was not enough and that Obama is a middle of the roader.  If he was any further left he’d be in the Pacific ocean.

Irony can be really ironic ...

bonito: “Their [Tea Party] existence relies on their need to Bad-mouth someone or a group of some whom for one reason or other ...”

On the same pages as ...

“These are the same type of people that populated the KKK of old”

“The Tea Baggers are the Sturm Abteilung of the Republican party”

“What could possibly be mystifying about a legion of boobtube watching unhappy ignorant campers”

“That is not to say that the Tea Baggers are the best educated group in the world”

“The Tea Party part of the populace is too stupid to know ”

I don’t believe libertarians or anti-statists still form a significant portion of the Tea-Baggers, if they ever did.  The Tea-Baggers are ideologically diverse and inconsistent, even contradictory, but the dominant themes that have been reported from their demonstrations and conventions have been closely related to religious fanaticism and racial tension.  They talk about “socialism” but it is apparent that most of them have no idea what the word means.  (Authentic libertarian discourse, in complaining about the convergence of corporate and government power, seems to have shifted to the more accurate “fascism” as the proper label.)

As for the Republican Party, it may be that the Tea-Baggers are the leading edge of its dissolution.  In 2008, the Religious Right, which thought it had control of the party, could not prevent McCain from being nominated.  I think that was more significant to them than losing the general election to Obama.  The formation of a separate party unquestionably dominated by them may seem preferable.

First of all, tea bagging is a derogatory term, most recently made popular by the folks on the Communist News Network (CNN). But more importantly, I could never understand why so many people are opposed to our Fed Gov’t having a balanced budget. I think this is what the Tea Party is all about…smaller gov’t, balanced budget, term limits for all politicians. I think we’re seeing a natural evolution away from the two party system. It’s about time.

Media propaganda created tea baggers in the same way they created the rush to
war after 9/11. New York Times polling on Sept 11,12, 2001 showed 56% thought
9/11 meant we would go to war. By Sept.20 , 2001 85% of Americans thought we
would go to war. So, after being attacked by 15 Saudi Arabians , who trained in
Germany,Florida,and Arizona, 85% of Americans became convinced we had to go
to war in Afghanistan.  The constant poisoning of reality and reason by the
television has created both the “Tea Party Movement” and “Al-Qaeda”
‘‘Al-Qaeda’’ hasn*t managed to kill One American on U.S. soil in Eight Years.
Some threat. I worry more about drivers on cell phones. If “Al-Qaeda’  wanted to
create nuclear destruction, why didn*t they attack nuclear plants on 9/11 ?
If “they’ hate Americans so much , why not hit the Super Bowl?

The tea bag “movement” exists for one reason only. That is because corporate power needs it so the corporate media gives it publicity. Without the free publicity from the media, and outfits like Fox in the first place, they would just be like a bunch of disgruntled ignorant white guys sitting in a bar and bitching about the gumint. Somebody had to organize these people.

Want to test this? Try organizing a “left” tea bag movement. Try calling up FOX and the other media. Try to get invited to discuss your program on national teevee. Tell them about your ideas on Wall Street, Pentagon spending, taxing the rich, etc. Try to get people like Kucinich hours of airtime a al Palin to discuss the left alternative. God knows, there is a mass base for it out there. 

This will fail, in spite of the fact that there is certainly more organizing talent on the progressive left than on the ignorant right. Nobody will return your calls; even from the “liberal” media.

Thanks No Man ...

No_Man’s_Land, February 11 at 7:18 pm #

I do not disagree that the Tea Baggers have been co-opted by corporate managers eager for more tax cuts and deregulation so they can legally rape the rest of the population (economically ... for now anyway).

My point is that the Tea Baggers have valid reasons to be upset other than racism ... just no clue what to do about it.

MarthaA, February 11 at 11:08 pm #

The Republicans are the ones who destroyed the United States economy.

All by their little selves? A filibuster proof majority for one year and what exactly did your Democrats accomplish? There can be no real solutions until we shatter Martha’s illusion.

The problem is that the political center has no credibility -or- opposition.  Its the political center and bipartisanship that brought us offensive wars, a paranoid security state, unprecedented corporate bailouts, and Reagan-style class warfare. 

If Obama is losing points and flanked by motivated “extremists,” it is only because he has failed to differentiate from this very political center that Americans are increasingly sick of.  He wants to win with this middle, but its a shrinking island with growing discontent on both sides.

hello again. i am pleased to read that after finally acknowledging the tsunami in the room, (behind the recent tea party wave of Republican victories), none of you intellectuals have an answer. i am just a working man, proud to contribute with the strength of my arms and the sweat off my brow, to bring you your way of life. what i have seen happening to this country for four score alarms me, alike every other patriot. subversives are again masquerading as progressives, and they need to be shown the door. many are brain warped, and believe they support a new cause; yet theirs are issues which have been satisfied in this country, many many generations ago. progressives can not see the growth of corruption, greed, and waste which rots the core of their causes: and in the name of progressivism only acts to enrich a few. or that is really their motivation. the great social programs have all been similar. the federal government is far from the representation the people want. our taxes are way too high. government spending is without full disclosure, nor accountability; and is not right. running around the world, to slaughter human beings: is wrong. ignoring illegal immigration, and proposing blanket amnesty: is wrong. threatening the livelihood of our grand children with a crippling deficit: crossed a line. the last thing government needs to sell us is a world order, like NAFTA: which usurps our Constitution. we are Americans, first and always. Ron Paul helped ignite a movement, along with others; but they are not the movement. tea party tea is not for you to understand, just enjoy the event. i hope the coming change is complete. write that on your hand: HOPE__CHANGE__

This progressive is not mystified by the tea baggers calling President Obama a socialist.

With all due respect to Mr. Dionne, whom I generally admire, there’s a gaping hole in his narrative that one could describe as pornographic: the media. They cater to liars. 

People can switch on Fox News and hear full-throated endorsements of the tea baggers nonsense.

They can turn to any other network and hear the tea baggers point of view presented as if it were a logical argument based on facts and reality. 

And they can flip open major newspapers, such as Mr. Dionne’s Washington Post, and read quotes from politicians who support the tea baggers as if they were something other than cynical partisans who are willing to rip this country apart to once again attain political power. 

All of which is quite ironic given that Republican ideology still controls the domestic banks, the international banks, and the foreign policy dedicated to spreading Republican economics—otherwise known as Friedman economics—across the globe, an economic formula that equates any type of regulations for businesses as socialism, any type of public utilities as socialism, and demands high unemployment, and obscene profits for multinationals as a standard for receiving financing from international banks. 

There’s no mystery here, Mr. Dionne. Mystery would imply we don’t understand what’s going on.  We do. We’re pissed off.

Save our country. Break up the corporate television news media conglomerates. Pull a Ma Bell on them. Pass it on.

The Republicans are the ones who destroyed the United States economy.

As I said before, Ron Paul is a REPUBLICAN. Ron Paul has done his job, he got a Right-Wing Republican psuedo-populace Tea Party started and that is all he was trying to do, he passed it off to the Grassfire and ResistNet Hitleresque Republicans that are trying to destroy the Obama administration.

More at:

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=9984

The current tea bag party simply hijacked the momentum gathered by the Ron Paul Revolution.

After Ron left the campaign and returned to being congressman Ron Paul, there were alot of people looking for direction.

Enter every political opportunist backed by MSM.