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The New Secessionists

Posted on Apr 26, 2010

Editor’s note: Because of an error, Chris Hedges’ April 25 column used part of a sentence that appeared in a recent article by Christopher Ketcham in GOOD magazine and on its website. Truthdig acknowledges Ketcham’s work and regrets the failure to properly attribute the wording to him. Ketcham is credited in the revised column below.

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Acts of rebellion which promote moral and political change must be nonviolent. And one of the most potent nonviolent alternatives in the country, which defies the corporate state and calls for an end to imperial wars, is the secessionist movement bubbling up in some two dozen states including Vermont, Texas, Alaska and Hawaii.

These movements do not always embrace liberal values. Most of the groups in the South champion a “neo-Confederacy” and are often exclusively male and white. Secessionists, who call for statewide referendums to secede, do not advocate the use of force. It is unclear, however, if some will turn to force if the federal structure ever denies them independence.

These groups at least grasp that the old divisions between liberals and conservatives are obsolete and meaningless. They understand that corporations have carried out a coup d’état. They recognize that our permanent war economy and costly and futile imperial wars are unsustainable and they demand that we take popular action to prevent citizens from being further impoverished and robbed by Wall Street speculators and corporations.

“The defining characteristic of the Second Vermont Republic is that there are two enemies, the United States government and corporate America,” Thomas Naylor, who founded Vermont’s secessionist movement, told me when I reached him by phone at his home 10 miles south of Burlington. “One owns the other one. We are not like the tea party. The underlying premise of the tea party movement is that the system is fixable.”


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As reported by Christopher Ketcham in a recent issue of GOOD magazine, Naylor points to the nation’s decline. The secessionist leader notes, in Ketcham’s words, “Of all the western democracies, the United States stands near dead last in voter turnout, last in health care, last in education, highest in homicide rates, mortality, STDs among juveniles, youth pregnancy, abortion, and divorce. ...”

The nation, he says grimly, has trillions in deficits it can never repay, is beset by staggering income disparities, has destroyed its manufacturing base and is the planet’s most egregious polluter and greediest consumer of fossil fuels. With some 40 million Americans living in poverty, tens of millions more in a category called “near poverty” and a permanent underclass trapped by a real unemployment rate of 17 percent, there is ample tinder for internal combustion. If we do not undertake a dramatic reversal soon, he asserts, the country and the global environment will implode with catastrophic consequences.

The secessionist movement is gaining ground in several states, especially Texas, where elected officials increasingly have to contend with secessionist sentiments.

“Our membership has grown tremendously since the bailouts, since the tail end of the Bush administration,” said Daniel Miller, the leader of the Texas Nationalist Movement, when I spoke with him by telephone from his home in the small town of Nederland, Texas. “There is a feeling in Texas that we are being spent into oblivion. We are operating as the cash cow for the states that cannot manage their budgets. With this Congress, Texas has been squarely in their cross hairs, from cap and trade to the alien transfer and exit program. So many legislative pieces coming down the pike are offensive to people here in Texas. The sentiment for independence here is very high. The sentiment inside the Legislature and state capital is one of guarded optimism. There are scores of folks within state government who are supportive of what we are doing, although there is a need to see the public support in a more tangible way. This is why we launched our Let Texas Decide petition drive. We intend to deliver over a million signatures on the opening day of the [state legislative] session on Jan. 11, 2011.”

Miller, like Naylor, expects many in the tea party to migrate to secessionist movements once they realize that they cannot alter the structure or power of the corporate state through electoral politics. Polls in Texas show the secessionists have support from about 35 percent of the state’s population, and Vermont is not far behind.

Naylor, who taught economics at Duke University for 30 years, is, along with Kirkpatrick Sale and Donald Livingston, one of the intellectual godfathers of the secessionist movement. His writing can be found on The Second Vermont Republic website, on the website Secession News and in postings on the Middlebury Institute website. Naylor first proposed secession in his 1997 book “Downsizing the USA.” He comes out of the “small is beautiful” movement, as does Sale. Naylor lives with his wife in the Vermont village of Charlotte.

The Second Vermont Republic arose from the statewide anti-war protests in 2003. It embraces a left-wing populism that makes it unique among the national movements, which usually veer more toward Ron Paul libertarianism. The Vermont movement, like the Texas and Alaska movements, is well organized. It has a bimonthly newspaper called The Vermont Commons, which champions sustainable agriculture and energy supplies based on wind and water, and calls for locally owned banks which will open lines of credit to their communities. Dennis Steele, who is campaigning for governor as a secessionist, runs Radio Free Vermont, which gives a venue to Vermont musicians and groups as well as being a voice of the movement. Vermont, like Texas, was an independent republic, but on March 4, 1791, voted to enter the union. Supporters of the Second Vermont Republic commemorate the anniversary by holding a mock funeral procession through the state capital, Montpelier, with a casket marked “Vermont.” Secessionist candidates in Vermont are currently running for governor, lieutenant governor, eight Senate seats and two House seats.

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Paolo's avatar

By Paolo, April 27, 2010 at 7:16 pm Link to this comment

I agree that the Tea Party Movement, while it has potential, is likely to be co-opted by the Republican Party, especially the warmongering Neocon wing. This is truly a pity, as the Tea Party folks are largely fans of Ron Paul or Sarah Palin, both of whom have a history of favoring secession (Palin, newly admitted to the conventional wing of the Republican Party, will of course deny any sentiment with secessionism).

Isn’t it interesting how the anti-corporatist Left and anti-corporatist Right can indeed agree on some things?

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By Paolo, April 27, 2010 at 7:10 pm Link to this comment

This may be a truly groundbreaking article by Chris Hedges! Interestingly, it has appeal to both libertarians and socialists, in that it challenges the authority of the corporatist state.

Observe that New Hampshire, a largely libertarian/conservative red state; and Vermont, a largely socialist/liberal blue state, both have strong secessionist movements.

Historically, observe that the Roman emperors decided the empire was too big to be managed by one central city, so they split the empire between the West and East (Rome and Constantinople).

Some would call for splitting the US between the East (centered in Washington) and the West (centered, perhaps, in LA or San Francisco).

Personally, I would go all the way and call for 50 separate governments.

Intriguing thoughts, well worth considering!

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By thetruth, April 27, 2010 at 7:00 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Secession raises an interesting parlor game:

If a state secedes, what kind of nation would it become?

California would immediately vault to the forefront of nations, becoming equal or slightly superior in status to nations like England, Germany and Japan.  Liberal Democracy, diverse, basically stable economy.

Texas would become like Saudi Arabia.  A single natural resource combined with a passionate nationalist/religious base creates a strong regional power led by a favored elite.  Essentially an petro-oligarchy

But what about the smaller states?

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By ofersince72, April 27, 2010 at 6:53 pm Link to this comment

Did you ever notice, no matter how well Obama is
  at delivering a speech, and he is,

  he can’t get rid of the condescending manner and
  haughtiness that all American leader’s attitudes
  are to the rest of the world.

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By Paul_GA, April 27, 2010 at 6:19 pm Link to this comment

CurtisNeeley, with all respect, never say “It can’t happen here” about anything; after all, the unity of the USA isn’t exactly ordained of God, now, is it? Those who love to repeat Daniel Webster’s “liberty and union, now and forever, one and inseparable”, ought to think about that.

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By jack jackson, April 27, 2010 at 6:05 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Vermont wants to leave the Union? They can fight for
it. The Union is perpetual and it is forever. If need
be, it will be a suicide pact. Thus is the Truth of

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By ofersince72, April 27, 2010 at 5:01 pm Link to this comment

You never were an Old Piece of Coal

You always were a diamond to those of us that heard you.

I will defend Texas,  This ole lefty still loves Molly

and Jim Hightower.

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By ofersince72, April 27, 2010 at 4:53 pm Link to this comment

Hey,  Billy Joe Shaver,  I know you are getting old,

  don’t go anywhere yet,  America needs your spirit

  in a bad way right now !!!!!!!!!!!!

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By ofersince72, April 27, 2010 at 4:47 pm Link to this comment

This gives Ray Wylie’s anthem


a whole new meaning….I will miss Ray Wylie and Willie.

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By Mark Thomey, April 27, 2010 at 4:21 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

You know, for a guy with such an impressive resume’,  you’d think that Mr Hedges would not be so lazy as to quote the standard bovine excrement issued by the SPLC. 

Then he makes completely false statements about what the League of the South does, in fact, advocate.  I’ve been a member of the League since 1996, and I’ve never seen one document we’ve published that says we, ‘openly embrace a return to uncontested white male power’.  That is a tremendous leap to conclusions drawn from completely false premises.  It is pitiful, sophomoric logic (sic).  It is shoddy journalism, fear mongering, and libelous.

Yes, we sing Dixie proudly, and we celebrate and advance the best of Southern culture, ecomomics, and political philosophy.  Nullification and secession are part of that tradition.  Secession is the primordial Southern and American political principle.  Just what do you government school indoctrinated morons think The Declaration of Independence is anyway?  It’s a secession ordinance.  If you classify secession as treason and illegal, then at least be intellecually honest enough to carry your lousy reasoning to its necessary conclusion, to wit:  you’d best get down on your knees, beg her majesty the queen’s forgiveness, and run a union jack up all the flagpoles.  If the South was wrong in 1861, then the Colonies were wrong in 1776. 

The South is distinct, and deserves its own national existence.  Like 1861, we propose an improved republican form of government.  Like Patrick Henry, we believe that it’s not the form of government that’s the problem, but those with whom we’re partnered in that government.  Of course, since 1865, we’ve been forced partners rather than free ones.  As President Davis said, we don’t seek to change our form of government, just its constitutent parts.  Just what do y’all have against liberty and government by the consent of the governed anyway?

The Cause of the South is reasserting itself today.  States’ Rights, nullification, and secession are in vouge throughout America, as Mr Hedges article indicates.  The problem with condescending yankees like Mr Hedges is that they’ll graciously ‘allow’ you to secede as long as your plans for your new country fall in line with what HE thinks they should be.  Well, kiss my Rebel a**. 

As I told Kirk Sale, Thomas Naylor, et. al. at the first North American Secession Convention when they expressed similar anti-Southern sentiments - liberty is a bitch!  If Vermont wants to secede and become a little socialist/marxist utopia - fine.  Those of us from Dixie won’t come up there with guns and force them to do things our way.  But we will expect them to return the favour.  They can have liberty their way, we’ll have it ours, and I’ll be we can be good neighbours in the process.  Isn’t that better than one trying to beat the other into submission while trapped under the same, oppressive regime?  Seems like a no-brainer to me.  But, hey, call me crazy.  I believe in liberty instead of slavery.

May God grant the South a name and place among the nations of the earth!  Deo Vindice!  [><]

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By ofersince72, April 27, 2010 at 3:50 pm Link to this comment

Can you imagine the stupidity and hypocracy of the
Washington Post to call another government, that has
never invaded anyone a


The rest of the world knows who the Thugocracy is
regardless of the line of crap that spews from your pages.

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Samson's avatar

By Samson, April 27, 2010 at 3:40 pm Link to this comment

The funny thing of course is that none of these secessionist movements could even win a vote in their own state.  Probably not even come close. 

But at least this thread brought all the closet right-wingers on this site out in the open.  I think every wingnut with a fake name on this site has commented on this thread.

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By Paul_GA, April 27, 2010 at 3:36 pm Link to this comment

Truedigger3, what makes you think the secessionists are going to make a move while the feds can still use “fire and the sword” to chivvy them back into line, as was done with the South 145 years ago? If they have any smarts, they’ll wait until this country is collapsing from imperial overstretch and the feds are so overwhelmed by events at home and abroad, they couldn’t stop a secession movement with the best will in the world, even if they *could* clone Abe Lincoln.

Remember, the US military is being worn down to a frazzle in Iraq and Afghanistan (particularly the latter these days) and may yet find itself in a third war, with Iran; they’re not going to be in a mood to fight their own flesh and blood, even if Mordor orders them to—and where will the money to pay and equip them come from if this country collapses economically? As Cicero said, the sinews of war are endless money; if the fiat money fails (probably because the Chinese won’t back it up any longer with loans), then this country won’t be able to fight overseas, much less fight a secessionment movement at home.

Instead of looking at the “power” of Mordor-on-the-Potomac and thinking it’s boundless, it would be more realistic to consider that a smart secessionist movement, taking advantage of events, could succeed where the South failed a century and a half ago. But will they be that smart? If I may paraphrase Nietzsche, some movements make their move too soon; others make their move too late; few heed the lesson—make your move at just the right time.

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By truedigger3, April 27, 2010 at 2:51 pm Link to this comment

I am baffled and surprised, that Chris Hedges, who have been around the block several times, wrote such nonsense.
The belief that any state, can just leave the union peacefully, with the blessing of the Federal Government is insane and rediculous.
Any REAL secessionist attempt, will be dealt with violently with the full force of the Federal Government. Besides, assuming that a state managed to secede, that will result in internal violence and strife, withing the state, coupled with wrenching and formidable logistical tasks as the state try to substitute the functions of the Federal functions within the state.
Most of these secessinist movements are racist and based on outmoded ideas and era.
The antebellum South is not coming back, never.
If a body is sick, you treat the sickness and not cut the body to pieces.!!!

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By samosamo, April 27, 2010 at 1:55 pm Link to this comment

By Luath, April 27 at 2:50 pm

Don’t look now, but crime in chicago is so bad some of the
second shelf officials are wanting to call in the ‘troops’, military
variety that is.

How quaint.

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By Glen Wayne, April 27, 2010 at 1:54 pm Link to this comment

Why not build a new Jerusalem in Texas when they secede?

Just bless some of the contractors like Bechtel and Bin Laden Construction Group
and precede. Part of the wall is already in place and they could lease the old Enron
towers for a temporary temple.

They could also retarget left over assets like ICBMs on Provinces like Alberta
unwilling to share their dirty oil.

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By DiB, April 27, 2010 at 1:22 pm Link to this comment

One of the most popular songs on the largest internet radio station here in Vermont is “Secessionist” ...a tribute to the Vermont movement.  You can find it at and contact the band at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

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By omop, April 27, 2010 at 12:37 pm Link to this comment

Courtesy of Veteranstoday website.

300 out of 550 listen to one voice only.

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By JDmysticDJ, April 27, 2010 at 11:41 am Link to this comment

Not One More

Your points are cogent and well taken. Defending Obama would ordinarily be the act of an ill informed, unenlightened, American exceptionalist, with little regard for the suffering of innocents.

I was an early opponent of the Viet Nam War. I was arrested and charged with a federal crime while protesting that war. At the same time, I supported Lyndon Johnson’s War on Poverty and civil rights agenda. I voted for Hubert Humphrey when he ran against Nixon, I voted for a third party in 1976 when Carter ran against Gerald Ford, but I voted for Carter when he lost to Reagan. I was one of the few who voted for Walter Mondale, I voted for Dukakis, Clinton, Gore, Kerry and Obama.

Democracy is a messy business. I’ve voted for a long list of elitist democrats that I had little respect for. One can only speculate, but I wonder what the state of our nation would be, if Humphrey had defeated Nixon, Carter had defeated Reagan, Dukakis had defeated Bush one, and Gore had defeated Bush two.

I detest Obama’s foreign policy/ national security actions, and his failure to actively seek criminal charges against the Bush administration. I detest the fact that he is an American exceptionalist, and a confirmed Corporatist. I should loathe him for his foreign policy actions, but I only see him as being a well meaning, horribly misguided, elitist, who is just a hapless product of his life experiences.

All that being said, I still believe Obama will be a better choice than any republican alternative. Show me a viable, left leaning, third party option, and I will support that third party with all my energy, but I will not contribute to Obama’s defeat or waste my vote, facilitating a return to power of stupid, mean spirited, and more dangerous republicans.

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By Gilbert, April 27, 2010 at 11:32 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Secessionists?? Very interesting subject. When you get
tired of to much rhetoric in congress and self serving
politicians. This alternative is less evil than the
corporate controlled government we have.

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By Luath, April 27, 2010 at 10:50 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

re; oh, yeah’s comment
  Even if the army would invade a state to prevent secession, which given the variety of differing opinions within the army, and other branches, makes their agressive stance against the peopl, dubious at best.
Why would the army, Navy and the marines fight us? Why isn’t it equally as plausible that they would JOIN the people? The fact that generals will not go to fight in Afghanistan based on the eligibilty question concerning Obama makes this even more plausible, which is why foreign troops, who have no allegiance to the usa, have been brought over.
Th fact that more and more ARMY VETERANS who are being forced to do 5 and 6 tours of duty in iraq are begininng to realize, far earlier than during Vietnam, the futility and uselessness of this war, and now dc is making noises about Iran?
Although, by the same token, not for a moment do I believe that secession would work, or even be allowed to work….think animal farm.

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, April 27, 2010 at 9:56 am Link to this comment

If Arizona, Texas and a few other Southern states succeed
from the union, a map of the United States will look like
a Southern bell missing a few front teeth!

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By Night-Gaunt, April 27, 2010 at 9:52 am Link to this comment

“NO kings,, No gods, NO masters.”—Either Emma Goldman or maybe Elizabeth Cady Stanton? Whomever said it I agree with it. A limited democratic-republic is what I am for. But with far more autonomy for the individual, regulated Capitalism and a social cushion so that no one will be living on the streets. The bare bones for survival so that you would be inclined to get back into the rat race. The minimum for survival taken care of.

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By Leefeller, April 27, 2010 at 9:40 am Link to this comment

Damn,..... I have read so much Omop, I am starting to
write like him!

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By Leefeller, April 27, 2010 at 9:28 am Link to this comment

I look forward every week like I used to be waiting
Playboey when I was younger, just for Hedges new
articles.  But I keep waiting for the three bears just
right cartel, (not Gop right)  for every one!

Hopefully next week will be the week?  Hedges will
conjure up support my feelings of what would clear
political stinky air and provide this nation with an all
needed enema of ill repute.

It is not successionism, fascism, socialism, Naderism,
bipartisanism, Naziism and not even…..... Mormonism!

My ism is Monotheism but not the one your may suspect, I
am talking about…... Monarchism, hopefully a benevolent
one, a King who cares for his people instead of his
coffers.  We need a king like the one on Morocco who
supported his people against the Nazis! So possibly
instead of hearing “impeachment is off the table”,
instead we could hear their heads rolling off the
chopping blocks! Instead of tea bags we will be waving
baskets with heads in them!

Accountability will have a new old meaning and really
mean, being accountable!

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By Donna Fritz, April 27, 2010 at 9:17 am Link to this comment

*** Chris must have gone over the edge for a while; he did recommend sabotage in his “Calling All Rebels” article. - JDmysticDJ

Sabotage isn’t necessarily violence.

Read his 2002 book “War is a force that gives us meaning.” It will cure you of any notions that Chris is an advocate of violence.

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By Paul_GA, April 27, 2010 at 8:08 am Link to this comment

They’d better not be bluffing, as I see it, Omop; they’d better be genuinely determined on secession (REAL secession, not “secession” in quotation marks) if Mordor-on-the-Potomac can’t or won’t change.

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By omop, April 27, 2010 at 5:40 am Link to this comment

Thousands of teachers in every state to become unemployed within a few weeks.

  While the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are costing the US taxpayer a combined
total of $380 million dollars a day. In addition to billions in foreign aid to Israel,
Egypt and paying for military bases.

  Is not considering “secession” a message that the public is sending Washington,

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By Paul_GA, April 27, 2010 at 5:28 am Link to this comment

Thought I’d bring this up:

“The greater the state, the more wrong and cruel its patriotism, and the greater is the sum of suffering upon which its power is founded. Therefore, if we really wish to be what we profess to be, we must not only cease our present desire for the growth of the state, but we must desire its decrease, its weakening, and help this forward with all our might.” ~ Leo Tolstoy

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By bogi666, April 27, 2010 at 5:05 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

SAMOSAMO,War against a ghost, what an asute comment. The GWOT, ghost serves the purpose for endless war, who ever won a physical war against a concocted phantom,  existing only in the imagination of Bush2, an alcoholic brain with it synaptic pathways to the prefronal lobes destroyed by drug abuse. Thanks

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By ofersince72, April 27, 2010 at 5:05 am Link to this comment

“As this article was going into publication, we learned
that Javier Girardo, and his human rights group
Justica y Paz, have recieved death threats in retaliation
for the above-mentioned revelations about the
paramilitaries, please take a moment to write a note
of concern for the life of Father Javier to
Hilary Clinton,  fax.(202) 647-2283.”

The whole article may be read at CounterPunch.
The fax number please note…It is not given out
in the C-Span directory.

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By Mike789, April 27, 2010 at 4:53 am Link to this comment

The realism of the sesseionists’ threat is that it is simply a zere sum confrontation. Minor differences are emphasized to the detriment of the underlying agreement that government is not affecting any meaningful change at all than greasing the corporate skid.

These movements might be viable if their constituents would temporarily put aside their differences, act like true Americans, i.e., (do the exact opposisite of Congress), find common ground and march on Washington. Right now they only serve to nullify one another and that’s exactly what the poliiticians want.

Set up a conference call. LOL

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By Inherit The Wind, April 27, 2010 at 3:18 am Link to this comment

JDmysticDJ, April 27 at 12:16 am #

Inherit the Wind

You’re right about Hedges for the wrong reasons. I do agree with Hedges’ social analysis, but he’s grasping for straws with his nihilist solutions. First it was Tea Partiers, now it’s secessionists.

JD: Touché!

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By Not One More!, April 27, 2010 at 2:37 am Link to this comment

JDmysticDJ writes: Obama is much more likely to shift back to the left than any republican is likely to suddenly adopt a left perspective.

Actually the chance of that happening are ZERO, nadda, nul, forget about it.

You have to wonder why people keep believing that? Is someone there creating the fairytale misbelief? Repeating it certainly continues the spread of that viral paralytic thinking causing you not to act whenever a ‘democrat’ is promoting a war that was supposedly ‘evil’ when bush did it.

And is having your head held underwater 6 inches by the democrats as opposed to 12 inches by the republicans until you drown really different? I don’t think it makes any difference to a drowning man. And we are all drowning, whether we realize it or not.

The democrats are hand in hand (or lockstep) with the republicans in protecting the financial interests of the corporate elite while the world goes to hell. And just because you don’t personally experience ‘hell’ at the moment, it doesn’t mean that the world isn’t suffering, or that there are not going to consequences to our current actions.

Hope is the opiate of the masses. Vote third party.

Support Republican Policy
Vote for a Democrat

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By JDmysticDJ, April 27, 2010 at 1:50 am Link to this comment

Chris must have gone over the edge for a while; he did recommend sabotage in his “Calling All Rebels” article. He is clearly a superior intellect, worthy of much respect, but I disagree with his recent attacks on the left, even though I know there are elements within the democratic party that have been corrupted, and that some, so called liberals, are guilty of elitism, but the reality is that the alternative to the left is stupid,  mean spirited, and dangerous. There may be little actual difference between Obama and Bush, but there is a difference, and Obama is much more likely to shift back to the left than any republican is likely to suddenly adopt a left perspective. Like it or not, It is what it is.

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By Donna Fritz, April 26, 2010 at 10:49 pm Link to this comment

*** At least Hedges begins his article by saying, “Acts of rebellion which promote moral and political change must be nonviolent,” which is a change in philosophy, on his part, that I, personally, heartily agree with. - JDmysticDJ

Chris has always preached non-violence.

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By JDmysticDJ, April 26, 2010 at 8:16 pm Link to this comment

Inherit the Wind  

You’re right about Hedges for the wrong reasons. I do agree with Hedges’ social analysis, but he’s grasping for straws with his nihilist solutions. First it was Tea Partiers, now it’s secessionists.

JD Ryan, (April 26 at 9:52 am,)

seems to be much more knowledgeable about Naylor and the Second Vermont Republic than Hedges is. Hedges magnified the group’s significance, and apparently failed to do the necessary research about Naylor and his group, or he left out a few facts to serve his nihilist agenda. At least Hedges begins his article by saying, “Acts of rebellion which promote moral and political change must be nonviolent,” which is a change in philosophy, on his part, that I, personally, heartily agree with.

I continue to believe that we need to take nonviolent action to bring political issues, of the utmost importance, to the forefront of political debate. Oddly, the Tea Partier’s success, in promoting their ill informed, infantile, reactionary beliefs, points out the value of public demonstration as a method of creating public debate.

I also continue to believe in social democracy, and that the political left is the only realistic vehicle to achieve that end, and to peacefully, and democratically, bring an end to global mayhem, and the mammoth injustices that are so evident.

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By oh yeah, April 26, 2010 at 7:29 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Oh, yeah.  Secession!  Like that’s gonna fly. 

You move for secession, there is no measure to how fast and how hard the Army,
National Guard, Air Force, Marines, and every little minion from local police to
sheriff to dog catcher will be up your ass in a New York minit, and will kick your
ass.  You think you have a sustainable base of supporters?  Ha!  They ALL have

I laugh.

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By Not One More!, April 26, 2010 at 7:13 pm Link to this comment


It doesn’t matter what you call the rule of government, if it is corrupt, selfish, deceitful, and operates in secret, it is not for the benefit of the ‘people.’

I do believe in government where laws are transparent, applicable to all, and work first and foremost to protect basic humans rights for all and the public trust (air, water, food supply, environment etc).

I object to the tea party and many groups that want to secede because all they want is a change of rulers so that they can do want they want to do, and not necessarily for the protection of society at large. They could care less for the common good as long as they get theirs.

It is a mistake to think the enemy of my enemy is my friend. If someone wants to end this war because it is too costly, and not because it was wrong in the first place, we have no common ground for agreement. Because it means he would be for the war if we won or was last costly.

Neither corporate party (republicans or democrats) wants the status quo to change. I don’t understand why the victims of those policies (the majority of the US citizens) still support those parties.

And for those that resort to ‘labels’ to discredit a person, I hope it works for you.

just another commie pinko wanting peace

“If you follow a path, eventually that path takes you to its destination.” John Hamilton

PS - There is still an illegal war going on, Guantanamo is still open for business, corporation are being ‘bailed out,’ and we don’t have universal health care. Go figure.

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By Working Vermonter, April 26, 2010 at 6:08 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

These people claiming that Vermont secession is somehow “racist” are
wannabe cointelpro, if even that.  As for the SPLC, don’t forget Harper’s article
by Ken Silverstein on the Church of Morris Dees.  They’re simple opportunists-
gladly willing to label guilty and innocent people alike as “racist” to churn up
“donations” to one of the wealthiest “charities” in the US.

The nasty, juvenile language spewed forth by Thomas Rowley, AKA J.D. Ryan and
several others at Green Mountain Daily betrays them. The most recent post by
“Rowley” even tries to link some hitherto unknown guy who said child molesters
shouldn’t be raped in prison to VT secessionists!  (I guess the racist thing isn’t
cutting it, “Rowley”.  Pathetic, dude.  Sad and pathetic.)  I notice they’re playing nice over at GMD while the Vermont candidates post there, but you only have to go back a few months to see their true colors.  J.D. Ryan in particular has a real nasty habit of calling folks “douchenozzle” and “asstard” and other complicated compound words when he can’t think of anything intelligent to say.  He LOVES to call working Vermonters “redneck mouthbreathers” and such.  His general hatred for religion is front and center on his website, though to be fair, he’s an equal opportunity hater, unless you happen to be a fellow atheist, I guess.  Most ironic, hypocritical and too-strange-to-be-true, he’s also obsessed with “blacksploitation” films.  Go ahead folks, read it all, it’s right there in the open at

Sure, J.D. Ryan AKA “Thomas Rowley”, it’s not racism or intolerance or prejudice or hate when YOU do it, is it now?  Maybe it’s just trolling.  :*

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By billylutz, April 26, 2010 at 5:51 pm Link to this comment

What is bad for the economy
Is good for the earth
Western man is nothing if not economy
Let’s consume for what it’s worth

Entitlement is a curious arrangement
To argue for or against
What society works for otherwise
To help old pass to where others went

Defense spending is entitlement
To help arms factories thrive
Empires aggressively pursuing peace
Meaning all other thought marginalized

Who would’ve believed this western beacon
Would produce so many enemies
Freedom and democracy seductive words
And spoken from such great vanities

Who wouldn’t want a massive house
Heaped with trinket and appliance
Who wouldn’t work in a factory
And call it self reliance

And if a few get filthy rich
In order we all share a piece of the pie
The top clawing, gouging for markets
So we can work to buy

I say let ‘em go for it
Let ‘em bring down the house
Pray that greed is God’s good deed
Let tea-bagging righties espouse

Let the workers have no voice
As unions remain corrupted
Business is in it for themselves
Let the middle be disgusted

When eastern storms blow most severe
Blame it on el Niño
Best way to deny ominous trends
Watch sports and drink more vino

Let banks have their entitlement also
Since they are master and commander
Build them another World Trade Center
Let politicians pander

Another fish listed endangered today
Another hillside has been scalped
Another chunk falls off Antarctica
Climate legislation this year is shelved

Stimulus money paving highways
To get the economy back to speed
Barreling down on self destruction
Corporate Man, pay no heed!

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By samosamo, April 26, 2010 at 5:48 pm Link to this comment


This very succinctly describes what I think of the whole situation
and who actually, by criminal machinations, have gained an
upper hand through a tenuous fraud.

But to me on the flip side IF congress, and now the SCOTUS,
were not rigged with traitors to this country, bought and paid
for, and that congress was not drooled over as a fast track to the
supposed safe status of ‘elite’, and had people that did what the
constitution mandates, we could possibly find a way to hold
those accountable that have subverted and actually attacked this
country as being the real terrorists we have had since little w
created his ‘ghost war on terror’.

I also know how many IFs I have in the previous lines and the ‘or
s’ which basically concurs with the people in hedges post that
this country is subverted, broken and broke, and barreling along
at high speed towards the precipice with little chance of
stopping before going off into space. In the end I just hope I can
find a place where if any of these bastards ever showed their
face, they would get their well earned tarring and feathering.

And it probably is the best way to break this stupid situation up
and that is to secede from the u.s.a. as I find it a shame to be a
part of a gang of crooks, cheats, murders, rapists, hooligans
and some of the most despicable people to ever have inhabited
the earth.  In the old days, these people would definitely found
wandering in the wilderness more healthy than keeping doing
what has got us in this mess.

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By omop, April 26, 2010 at 5:09 pm Link to this comment

Radical SAHM, from Vermont. Along with the other 49, Vermont participates
through its DC reps in seeing more to the needs of others than its own.

Military Aid to Israel, Total FY2009-2018: $40,716,186.72

This money could have been spent instead to:

Provide 494 households per year w/affordable housing grants OR
Provide 676 job seekers per year w/green jobs training OR
Provide 1,204 children per year w/early reading education OR
Provide 32,974 people per year w/primary health care.

Tell your Members of Congress to spend your tax dollars wisely

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By Shift, April 26, 2010 at 4:06 pm Link to this comment

It is good to see diverse resistance movements against corrupt corporatist overreaching federalism.  As the economic collapse unfolds the movements will strengthen.  Although the results are dangerously unpredictable the change process is messy.  It appears that this generation will face economic collapse, increasing natural destruction, food and water scarcity, pandemics, and the unknown effects of the planetary alignment with the center of the Milky Way on December 21, 2012.  The Oh Shyt moments are too numerous to contemplate.  These are interesting and deadly times.  The question is after the destruction will there be any people remaining for the rebirth?  Let’s hope there is not a final ohnosecond.

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By Radical SAHM, April 26, 2010 at 3:39 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Hi. Female Vermont secessionist here.
1. Vermont pays as much in federal taxes as it gets in federal payments so we’d be just well off without the fed as with it. Our share of the national debt, that’s another story.
2. Anyone suggesting that the VT Secessionist movement is racist is completely full of shit.
3. The movement isn’t about business as usual, it’s about embracing contraction and simplification:  re-skilling and re-learning what it means to be a human being. The movement is certainly about avoiding escalating resource wars, fascism and starvation but also about regaining a sense of purpose, pride and community/land connection outside of the soul crushing and earth polluting corporatist consumerist paradigm. It’s about meaningful freedom.

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By jan, April 26, 2010 at 2:33 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Very strong article,Chris.
mysself, I am of mixed feelings about secession. It is exciting to know that so many are willing to take real action against corporate take over and at the same time its sad to think America will be split into fragments.  Secession; We have to believe it will be better for future generations…. right now, there is no hope for them….

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By RenZo, April 26, 2010 at 2:21 pm Link to this comment

The US is sending our children to die in Afpak and Iraq because the oil companies demand that we have the oil fields securely surrounded to avoid nationalizations and popular uprisings from “stealing” their oil from us. The next step is war with Iran, then last, the invasion of Saudi Arabia (after it is “stolen” by revolutionaries).

Now that we are down to the last few drops of ancient sunlight on the planet (ancient biomass = petroleum) the wars have started- for the purpose of controlling the oil-spigots, pipelines and shipping lanes (N.B. recent capture of Somali pirates, brought to prison in US). It will not get better. That is the sole reason our military is so massively awesome, the sole reason we are impoverished and preoccupied - to get at the last drops of oil.

Think about a board room full of crack addicts looking for that last little rock to smoke. That’s the USA folks.

PostScriptum. Not registering here at TruthDig will NOT keep the US government from finding you. When they want you they will not only find you, but transport you and imprison you without delay or remorse. Remorse is for weeping socialists, lazy libertarians and widowed communists. Not for capitalists.

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By Thomas Rowley, April 26, 2010 at 1:07 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Part of writing a comprehensive piece is to do the research beyond what people like Naylor and Sale are spinning today.

Second Vermont Republic is a white, male organization, just like the white, male hate group, the League of the South.  Belatedly (as in after five years), Naylor reversed his support for his Sourthern brethren.

Shortly after he started his campaign for the secession of Vermont based on bogus poll results and his own strong ties to academic fronts like the Abbeville Institute, Naylor became involve in controversy.  Even his Board of Advisors contained members members of well known racist and anti-immigrant organizations like the LoS and the Northern League (Italy).

Hopefully, should Truthdig ever “drill beneath the headlines” and write about secession again, it’ll get the whole story from those other than the proponents here in the state of Vermont.  Truth is, if you’d only contacted local media and bloggers you’d have found quite a different story.  The dissembling of Naylor and his very small group of supporters here have killed secession in Vermont for the foreseeable future.  Naylor’s SVR and Middlebury Institute are little more than press release machines.

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By lucius0729, April 26, 2010 at 12:49 pm Link to this comment

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but if a state seceeds they and their citizens lose all government funding. That means highway funding, welfare, food stamps, etc. That’s a lot to lose because your governor is an idiot.

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By prole, April 26, 2010 at 12:39 pm Link to this comment

“The movement, at its core, is anti-authoritarian,” said Sale, who works closely with Naylor and spoke with me from his home in Charleston, S.C. “It includes those who are libertarians and those who are on the anarchic community side. In traditional terms these people are left and right, but they have come very close together in their anti-authoritarianism. Left and right no longer have meaning.”  Quite – the anti-authoritarian ‘grand coalition’ is the future of an effective resistance. The fault lines are being re-defined, identity politics has been impotent in practice and impoverished in imagination and authoritarian in outlook.  Anti-authoritarians must oppose the self-righteous, politically-correct authoritarians of the liberal left who use the federal government to impose their rigid social dogmas; and anti-authoritarians must oppose the corporate mandarins and the hegemonic, interventionist authoritarians of the neo-con ‘Likudnik’ right who use the federal government for profit and plunder and Occupation. The more concentrated power is in centralized sources the easier it is for grotesque aberrations like The Lobby to wield their insidious control, all out of proportion to their scant numbers, the complete negation of anything remotely resembling democracy. The anti-authoritarian resistance at home must make common cause with the resistance movements in the worst-afflicted realms of the empire. “There are three or four [or more] possible scenarios that will bring down the empire” – Yes, we can!

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By nemesis2010, April 26, 2010 at 12:12 pm Link to this comment

!”Acts of rebellion which promote moral and political change must be nonviolent.”

Do you really believe that any worthwhile act of defiance toward the Empire’s authority is NOT going to be countered with extreme prejudice by one or more of AmeriCorp’s paramilitary agencies? There was a reason for the establishment of the so-called “DHS.” And it has little to do with Muslim fanatics in their 3rd world shitholes.

Where would we be today had the founders of this country been of the same mind set?

” “The defining characteristic of the Second Vermont Republic is that there are two enemies, the United States government and corporate America,”

The United States government is a wholly owned subsidiary of corporate America and therefore there is but one enemy. The enemy is not government or corporations. The enemy is the group of human beings functioning within the framework of those entities that we know of as government and corporations. The difference is subtle but very important.

I do agree with Thomas Naylor in that this system is not fixable. I have often given presented the allegory of the potter and the clay. There’s does come a point when its best to just throw the old lump of dried, no longer pliable clay out on the trash heap and begin anew.

”Our membership has grown tremendously since the bailouts, since the tail end of the Bush administration…”

Where are the numbers? If you have a membership that goes from 2,000 to 3,000 it can easily be seen as tremous growth but at the same time when compared to the overall population would appear to be a passing of gas rather than a profound morning constitutional.

I haven’t a problem with a Texas secession; especially if it means preventing a civil war. Good riddance! I wonder how after secession the U.S. will have to militarize the borders to prevent the flood of Apocalypsia or Jesusland refugees fleeing the failed theocracy from entering the country illegally.

” Secessionists have to be very careful not to be militaristic,” Sale warned. “This cannot be won by the gun.”

If it can’t be won with the gun, it damn sure will NEVER be won without it. Ain’t gonna hapin!

Especially if as he says:

” The U.S. government has lost its moral authority,” he went on. “It is corrupt to the core. It is owned, operated and controlled by Wall Street and corporate America. Its foreign policy is controlled by the Israeli lobby.”

Am I supposed to believe that all those amoral sons-a-bitches are simply going to allow billions in tax revenue to walk away? Get real.

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By CarbonPenguin, April 26, 2010 at 12:07 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Mr. Hedges,
Thank you for your excellent coverage of the secession movement; as an active supporter in Vermont, it’s nice to see the hard work we’ve been pouring into standing up to the Empire receiving a bit of notice.  For any readers who’d like to provide a bit of material support, the Gubernatorial candidate, Dennis Steele, could certainly use any Federal Reserve notes you’d be willing to part with.  Head to to help out and learn more…

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By Mike, April 26, 2010 at 11:41 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Unfortunately we have neo-liberals and neo-conservatives running our country at the pleasure of corporate America. Life was far from perfect before they came onto the scene, but things weren’t nearly as bad either.

Never thought the president would be a miracle worker but I did believe that he was our last shot at curbing their influence. That was until he introduced his cabinet and advisors. The health care debate pretty much convinced me that the left and right are pretty much now the same with only cosmetic differences.

The fact that left leaning politicians have been largely silent on Bush style authoritarianism under Obama for myself was to quote the film Aliens, a “Game over man, game over!” moment.

The Texas secessionist movement should peter out as soon as a republican is back in the white house but the Vermont movement looks like it will be around for a while. The Texas movement seems more like a case of “its my ball and I’m taking it home.”

PS Thank you Mr. Hedges for your recommendation of Democracy Inc. by Sheldon Wolin.

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By Joe, April 26, 2010 at 11:39 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I have more sympathy for the tea party people than others do I suppose

First of all, I do believe that the state of the economy and bailouts are fine reasons to protest
Yes most are unsophisticated, But that’s the nature of all protesters.  Yo think the code pink people can give you a coherent foreign policy?  no way, especially not if you are at the rally and put them on the spot when they are all fired up and stick a camera in their face

The tea party people remind me of characters in south park.  The rednecks, who whenever there is a town meeting shout “They took our Jobs!”  Do they have a viable strategy to get them back? no not really, but they are upset and are voicing it.  And they aren’t wrong.

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By doublestandards/glasshouses, April 26, 2010 at 11:39 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

There has been a secessionist movement in Vermont since it became the 14th state in 1791.  It’s nothing new.  And left - right do matter because the rightists are always against taxes.  They don’t feel responsible for the common good.  If these states did seceed, right - left would become all important again very quickly.

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By Night-Gaunt, April 26, 2010 at 11:04 am Link to this comment

The only way there can be “peaceful succession” is if the Federalist-Corporate state does fall apart and nothing fills its vacuum. (I put peaceful in quotes because there will be some blood shed just not very much of it.) Many millions will die if it does just from mayhem and starvation if that should happen.

The problem is that the corporatist theocrats want the USA gov’t to fall to rid itself of the remnants of the Republic so that they can get their Empire. Right now we have a kluge of Republic and Empire. Both cannot stand. So the Empire isn’t even fully realized yet. But trashing the country would allow them to take over and rebuild it in their own image. First impoverish, divide then conquer. Part of their grand plan to do now what they failed to do in 1934. The present conditions are those they have sought since 1980 which is when they tried the last time in 1934. {Ideal for their plans of a Depression, possible civil war & global conflict.}

Now if only Clinton & Obama weren’t in the pocket of Wall St. as the Republicans are now.

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By Inherit The Wind, April 26, 2010 at 10:53 am Link to this comment

Hey Skulz:
No, I don’t work for or defend Goldman, Sachs. I am a Liberal, but I am not a Socialist.  Nor do I share Hedges’ view that the world is a)on the brink of self-immolation and b) the only solution is Socialism and a dictatorship of the proletariat.

It just sounds too much like Al Qaeda, but with a different “religion”.

I have frequently documented CH’s sloppy research, unsupported assertions and conclusions not even supported by his unsupported assertions.

In short, I think he repeatedly shows himself to play fast and loose with facts and extrapolate far beyond rational inference.

Combine that with his pathetic Armageddon POV, and I can say, with justification, that his opinions are garbage.  You don’t have to agree.

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By montaigne, April 26, 2010 at 10:08 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

There wasn’t a murmur of secession or tea party’s and cucumber sandwiches, when Bush was in office. When the Republican party [Reagan, Bush Sr, & Jr.] back-door taxed the American people with a $9 trillion debt and debt interest payments totaling over $3 trillion per decade,there was not a peep. Small Government, Big Debt,exposed the lying propaganda of the Right.

Both the Republicans and the Democrats de-regulated the financial industry; remember Phil Gramm,Clinton Rubin, Summers, the Ayn Rand groupie Alan Greenspan?

The truth of the matter is if the current administration had a white face, these zombies would still be hypnotized, in a coma. They only want their country back, white faced, so they can go back to sleep, self-satisfied and unconscious,as the bus goes over the cliff.

The only prayers that should be made is that President Obama can clean up their mess,yes you elected the incompetents, and restore sanity without further indebtedness, phony fiat money and increased taxation.

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By Chariotblue, April 26, 2010 at 9:19 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

There is no conceivable process that I can imagine that would reverse the
ever-growing dominance of corporations over public life in America. 
Corporate interests always work for their own interests and against the public
interest except by coincidence. The United States has chosen the path of
unrestricted rights of capital to act as it pleases. It is too late to halt the thirty
year shift to the right that started with Ronald Reagan’s tear-down of the
worlds finest-ever expression of government. A government that really had
acted in the public interest. That we are in the end-game of a democratic
capitalism that has worked so well for our country should be apparent to all in
the aftermath of the financial system meltdown of September 2008, and the
all too obvious looting of the American public ever since. The Tea Party and the
progressive left both seem to get this, leaving the political center to bury its
head in the sand and pray for the status-quo. As much of a fan of freedom and
the local control of an individual’s and a people’s destiny as I am, those who
understand the nature of Balkanization must know that any successful
secessionist movement would bring with it inter and intra-state violence of
horrific proportions that no one besides the private armies that are busy
springing up in the corporate world and backwoods America could possibly
wish for. Like it or not we are stuck with the federation we have. As to the
future, who in their right mind cannot see the day in the not too distant future
when the Chinese rightly assess that the value of the US Dollar is based on a
gigantic Ponzi scheme run by the Treasury and the Fed (which is after all simply
an association of the biggest U.S. banks). The Chinese know every bit as well as
we do that the leaders of those institutions will do or say anything necessary to
“retain confidence” in the dollar. But at the rate the dollar is multiplying
through our banking system and securitization, every dollar represents a
smaller and smaller real value. What do the Chinese need us for except as
consumers anyhow. Their engineering is every bit as good as ours, and
through their planning have built an infrastructure that accomodates the needs
of the twenty-first century while our twentieth century construction decays at
an ever-accelerating rate. The Chinese have acquired access to all the
resources they need to power and provide for the future through diplomacy
and joint development projects worldwide while America has earned the
world’s enmity for the brutal methods in which it acquires access to those vital
resources. The day the Chinese stop buying US debt is the day we will
remember as the day America imploded. It will probably also be the day that
Martial Law comes home to stay. Aloha and Good Luck All

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By flow, April 26, 2010 at 8:34 am Link to this comment

Correction. Please make that “uncontrollable” in the entry below.

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By flow, April 26, 2010 at 8:19 am Link to this comment

The USA is the second to lose the arms race, a race with mutually assured destruction as its organizing principle proves profoundly prophetic.  It is still a little earlier to pick a clear winner.

There is only one thing left to become a citizen of—the planet.

Capitalism & its governments are suffering the pangs of anachronism. Please excuse the controllable fits and spasms as it withers and dies.

Marx is vindicated and approved (again).

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By loneagle, April 26, 2010 at 8:16 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Secession is a more incendiary word or move
than is necessary, but the drawing back into
microcosms of “community” with more local,
greener attitudes toward agriculture,
manufacturing, power generation, maintenance
of infrastructure etc.,  not that surprising
under the circumstances, or even a bad idea.

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By greenuprising, April 26, 2010 at 8:05 am Link to this comment

Among those consequences would be a massive re-thinking and re-doing of the regulatory state—something that is long overdue and perhaps undoable.  Care to argue that we have a regulatory system that does not favor the corporations, gives the little guy a level playing field, makes sense to ordinary people, and doesn’t give undue authority to regulators?  If so, you live on another planet.

Along the way, we might, just might, have to give up the notion that we can control our borders and find some better ways to deal with travel and migration.

Not bad consequences, in my book.

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By skulz fontaine, April 26, 2010 at 8:02 am Link to this comment

Excellent article by Mr. Hedges. Logical, well reasoned, researched, timely,
articulate, and per usual for Chris. “Hedges opinions are worthless and based on
garbage?” Okey-dokie ‘inherit wind’, where? How? Strike a nerve did he? You
work for Goldman Sacks? RNC? DNC? Congressional staffer?
America’s grand experiment in democracy is unravelling in fascist failure. America
has been for some time a cancerous oligarchy. Kleptocracy? Subtle shades of not
much difference?
How would a ‘war of naked aggression’ on say Afghanistan or Iraq not be treason?
How about that Bushco torture? Treason? High crime and misdemeanor? Hanging
offense? Oh sorry, firing squad offense. Extrajudicial killing? Yeah, there’s treason
running all over Babylon-On-The-Potomac and most of that treason happens in
the corrupt and polluted halls of OUR Congress.

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By T-Hammer, April 26, 2010 at 7:58 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Extreme times call for extreme measures. Thanks for sharing more useful info
Chris. It’s good to get an idea of how groups of alert citizens are confronting the
BS shoveled upon us today. It’s clear that the tea party is more a
counterproductive distraction than effective conduit for practical change.

It’s also clear that the poster inherit the wind is some sort of troll pissing into the
wind in this arena.

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By Henry Pelifian, April 26, 2010 at 7:50 am Link to this comment

Mr. Hedges has a sound conclusion to his article.  Unfortunately, the national dialogue is often infused with those talk show hosts who make millions of dollars pandering about how great a country we are when it was made as much from those teaming millions of immigrants who came here for a better life as anybody the professional panderers talk about.

As far as the recent debacle in Arizona a more sensible course of action are employer sanctions for hiring illegals, and making the local police demand “your papers” smacks of something sinister.

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By kerryrose, April 26, 2010 at 7:49 am Link to this comment

Do not call Chris Hedges’ voice garbage.

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By tomack, April 26, 2010 at 7:45 am Link to this comment

All this is actually a good thing because some of these folks want some of the same things liberals, progressives, and some moderates want: less war, less spending, less corporate/lobby involvement in our futures, better environment, greener based energy, etc.

It’s the ideas that count, not necessarily the people holding them. A constructive outcome may create strange bedfellows.

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By konnie, April 26, 2010 at 7:31 am Link to this comment

is it just me or has anyone noticed that there is never an extrapolation of the consequences of secession?  maybe someone should take on the task.  for our purposes, just take texas:
stating that texas would pull all tax revenue going to the federal government on one hand, what
would they have to pay for on the other? if the
federal government pulled out social security, medicare and medicaid, nasa, interstate highway maintenance,closed all existing roads out of texas,
forcing all texans to get passports….all companies
doing business across statelines would require import/export licenses and have to face nafta regulations and international laws and create treaties from scratch halting business until those
legalities could be negotiated…...
discharged all military personnel from texas alone,
food safety inspection, etc. etc. etc.  how happy
would those secessionists be then?

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By bozhidar balkas, vancouver, April 26, 2010 at 7:07 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Wars cost not only money but also people. They are hard on nerves, as well.

It also seems to me that not one person in US knows why US is now in iraq, palestine, and afpak.

Or if one, two, three, some know why US is in these wars and occcupying some of the world, they keep this clerisy [special knowledge for few] to selves.

Obviously, what US had said thus far ab its occupation of the planet, amounts to rationalization or one cld say sensation w.o. causation.

It does not take much schooling that no war of aggression was ever waged on causation; each war had been waged on projection of sensation and its evil sister, the rationalization!

I wonder why i became unregistered? tnx

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By anonymous, April 26, 2010 at 6:55 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Drive by poster here.

Look, it’s been talked about many times, in many places, particularly since Bush’s 2004 win, but it bears repeating.

If the South seceded (or the other parts left), how could the rest of the country not be better off?

The South is total dead weight.  Name one useful, productive thing that would be missed if they spun off into a “CSA.”

Texas (and Louisiana and Oklahoma) gas and oil production has been declining for a long time.  Other than that one resource, what exactly do these areas bring to the table?

Look, a lot of things can be mentioned disposition of national debt, social security, etc.

Unthinkable maybe, but the reality is separation is doable.

And why wouldn’t the West Coast and the Northern states not be better off?  What benefit do they get from the South right now?

From batshit crazy politics to welfare to social security they are a tick attached to the more productive sections of the country.  When is someone going to say enough is enough?

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By omygodnotagain, April 26, 2010 at 6:40 am Link to this comment

Inherit the Wind
CH opinions are not garbage, there is a massaive backlash coming against globalism and corporatism. Very few have seen benefits. Second the lessons of the collapse of the Soviet Union should be noted, this evil empire collapsed when some shipbuilders in Gdansk simply said no. Not a shot being fired.
This country is owned by Wall Street and its foreign policy is controlled by a tribal, militaristic and dishonest Israeli lobby, who slanders those that criticize it. Many people are sick of it.

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By thebeerdoctor, April 26, 2010 at 6:06 am Link to this comment

Doing a bean count on the state of Vermont seems besides the point when you consider they have suffered more casualties in the Iraq war, per capita, than any other. Anti-war secessionist sentiment is understandable.

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By JD Ryan, April 26, 2010 at 5:52 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Chris, you overlooked the fact that even though Naylor talks of peaceful secession, he (and his organization) have no problem getting into bed with Neo-Confederate groups like the League of the South. The Southern Poverty Law Center has done a few articles on Mr. Naylor as well. And contrary to what he says, NEFAC (a Northeast anarchist collective) has distanced themselves from SVR because of the shady characters on SVR’s Advisory Board. Naylor even appeared on a white supremacist talk show a few years ago, as well as Glenn Beck’s show, who seemed to love him. SVR is more or less a punchline to a joke up here in VT for those that actually know about them. And, when confronted with these allegations, they repeatedly attack the messenger, say the criticisms are done because we “fear” them, or we’re simply taking things out of “context”.  Lots of info on that at and

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By ofersince72, April 26, 2010 at 5:35 am Link to this comment

I can see how this going to end up this week !!!

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By Paul_GA, April 26, 2010 at 4:37 am Link to this comment

You forget, Inherit The Wind, that not a single ex-Confederate was tried for treason. In fact, Jefferson Davis wanted a trial, but it was determined by the Feds that if it came to a trial, the USA could well lose in the courtroom what it won in the battlefield; so Davis never got the trial he wanted to “vindicate” him.

But Davis did say once, before he died, that the principle for which the Confederacy contended (i.e., secession, not chattel slavery) would one day return. And economic concerns are not the only concerns to think of. We human beings don’t always do things because we think it’ll make us richer.

Just remember—nothing created by humanity ever lasts forever; not even the unity of the USA. Perhaps losing this country’s unity will be one of the consequences of imperial overstretch. Sad to see it happen, I’ll aver, but all empires ultimately fall. They just fall in different ways.

I fear this country’s fall from the grandeur of empire will be especially messy. Too bad I had to live to see it; but as Robert E. Lee might say, it’s all in God’s hands now.

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By Inherit The Wind, April 26, 2010 at 3:25 am Link to this comment

It’s no surprise that CH, a die-hard Marxist-Leninist Socialist would be sympathetic to these traitors as they base their position on the idea that the USA has failed and is UNFIXABLE.  Of course, Hedges takes that position in every article.

But, you know, from a budget standpoint, we may do well to let these states go.

Vermont, the example, gets back $1.08 from the Feds for every tax dollar sent to DC.  Sooo…that “1.5 billion” would result in Vermont getting back 1.5 billion PLUS another $120 million

Alaska gets $1.84.

Of the states that talk “secession”, ONLY Texas pays in more than it gets back—$0.94.  Lots of “liberal” states get less, like NY, Mass, CT, Cal, and, of course, my own state, NJ, which only gets back $0.62.


Still, it was treason the first time a group of slavers tried to “Balkanize” the Union. What has changed so that this is no longer treason?

I maintain that Hedges’ opinions are worthless and based on garbage.

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