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The Hooey King

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Posted on Mar 11, 2011

By Eugene Robinson

“There is nothing radical or un-American in holding these hearings,” Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., claimed Thursday as he launched his McCarthyite probe of American Muslims. He could not have been more wrong. If King is looking for threats to our freedoms and values, a mirror would be the place to start.

Here’s why. Imagine a young man, a Muslim, who changes in troubling ways. His two best friends become concerned, then alarmed, as the young man abandons Western dress, displays a newfound religiosity and begins to echo jihadist rhetoric about the decadence of American society. Both friends suspect that the young man has become radicalized and might even attempt some kind of terrorist attack.

One friend is Muslim, the other Christian. Does the Muslim friend have a greater responsibility than the Christian to contact the authorities? By the logic of King’s witch hunt, he does.

The Homeland Security Committee hearings that King has convened are billed as an inquiry into “The Extent of Radicalization in the American Muslim Community and That Community’s Response.” In other words, King suspects that the Muslim community is somehow complicit. Individuals of one faith are implicated; individuals of another faith are not.

As Rep. Keith Ellison, D-Minn., one of two Muslims in Congress, said in his moving testimony, King’s premise assigns “collective blame” to American Muslims. “Demanding a community response ... asserts that the entire community bears responsibility,” Ellison said.

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In his pugnacious opening statement, King noted that his plan to hold these hearings had been criticized by “special interest groups and the media,” which he said had gone into “paroxysms of rage and hysteria” at the prospect. “To back down would be a craven surrender to political correctness,” he said. In case someone missed the point, King later said it was our duty to “put aside political correctness and define who our enemy truly is.”

King asserted that “this committee cannot live in denial.” He then went straight there—into denial—by paying no heed to the witness best situated to answer the committee’s question.

Los Angeles County Sheriff Lee Baca testified in opposition to King’s premise, citing figures demonstrating that radical, extremist acts of crime are committed by non-Muslims as well and saying that seven of the last 10 known terrorist plots involving al-Qaida had been foiled in part by information provided by Muslim Americans. Baca said his officers have good, productive relationships with Muslim leaders and citizens. Law enforcement officials from other jurisdictions where there are large Muslim communities could have given similar testimony, had they been invited.

King is trying to peddle the hooey that moderate Muslims do not speak out against extremism. It took Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee to note the irony that among the committee’s witnesses were two devout Muslims—one Syrian-American, the other Somali-American—who were there to speak out, quite loudly, against extremism.

King, in effect, was demanding to know why he didn’t see what was taking place before his eyes. Perhaps he was distracted by the need to maintain constant vigilance for any hint of political correctness.

That’s really what King’s grandstanding is all about. The purpose of these hearings isn’t to gather information. If it were, the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security would have been asked to testify. In addition to inviting Minneapolis-based Abdirizak Bihi, the Somali-American whose nephew was recruited by the terrorist organization al-Shabab, King could have brought in police from the Twin Cities to testify about cooperation by the Somali immigrant community.

King’s intent is theatrical, not substantive; he’s not trying to elicit facts, he’s inviting catcalls—and cheers.

It should not be so, but Islamophobia is a powerful force in American politics. There are those who will applaud King for associating the phrase “American Muslim community” with the phrase “who our enemy truly is.”

But decency is a powerful force, too. The hearing’s indelible moment came when Ellison broke down in tears. He was telling the story of Mohammed Salman Hamdani, a young Muslim who rushed into the World Trade Center to try to rescue victims just before the towers collapsed. His remains were found in the rubble.

Hamdani was not just a Muslim, Ellison said, fighting to choke out words that no one could dismiss as politically correct. He was “an American who gave everything for his fellow Americans.”

Eugene Robinson’s e-mail address is eugenerobinson(at)washpost.com.

© 2011, Washington Post Writers Group


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By Inherit The Wind, March 13, 2011 at 10:36 pm Link to this comment

However, ITW’s position is, in fact, exactly the opposite of your comment: that atheists who kill are better people, because they supposedly killed less people over a longer period of time.
*************

No, Maani.  You missed my point completely.  Both Mao and Stalin espoused “Atheism” but were no more Atheists than Hitler was a Christian, though he was born Catholic and espoused to be Christian.

And, quite frankly, your claim of “authority” means nothing to me.  I, at least, named one impeccable authority, Sidney Harcave.  You named…..none.  I also know how to do basic arithmetic—which is critical to statistics.

Actually, I would argue that people with faith, whether it is of Abrahamic religions, non-Abrahamic religions, or the newer faiths (which still accept one way or another a divine power that cannot be questioned) are the source of most of the evil in the world, and I include the false “Atheists” in that group.

As soon as you think you know something without needing scientific proof, you become dangerous to your fellow humans.  From Popes to Stalin to George W. Bush, to the Ayatollahs, this is the history of the world.

But I still assert that when you count up the numbers, more wrongful deaths occurred during the 2000 year history of Christianity than by any other entity in world history, whether or not you accept the denizens who brought this about to be “true Christians”.

Here, Maani, is one thing we agree on: Those who claimed to be “Christians” yet brought about these horrible crimes were clearly NOT followers of the teachings of Jesus, any more than Stalin or Mao were either true Communists or Atheists.

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By Spooky-43, March 13, 2011 at 6:01 pm Link to this comment

Maani,

Not only is “feed them when they are young” overly simplistic, it is overly absurd.

The underwear bomber did not look malnourished to me.  Actually the kid was rich, and had everything to live for. 

I will begrudgingly concede that it is possible to convince a young, rich kid to tie a bomb in his crotch to kill hundreds of apparently not-that-evil people, strictly for policitcal rather than religious purposes if it makes you feel better. 

But I would still like to know what is really behind it all.  WHAT IS REALLY BEHIND IT ALL?  That is worthy of an investigation, is it not?

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By Maani, March 13, 2011 at 5:24 pm Link to this comment

Spooky:

Although I could quibble with one or two details of your statement, it is alot better tempered and thoughtful than King and his ilk.

That said, Jules Feiffer once had a single-frame cartoon that showed a non-white (i.e., could have been black, Middle Eastern, etc.) toddler sitting on the ground crying, while a battle is raging in the background.  The caption was: “How to prevent terrorists: feed them when they’re young.”

That is admittedly overly simplistic, but it starts to get to the reality: despite the overt religious overtones (both alleged and real), most terrorist acts are POLITICAL acts, not religious ones.  Yes, Muslim terrorists may claim their act in the name of Allah, and expect their 72 virgins, but they are not committing the act FOR religious reasons: they are doing so for political (or socio-political) reasons.

This is where out (the West’s) mistake lies: we need to stop thinking of terrorism (Islamic, Jewish, Christian - and yes, although Jews and Christians don’t tend to strap bombs to their bodies, they both engage in various acts of terrorism) as a “religious” act, and see it as a political act.

However, that might make us look inward - to our own foreign policy, and how that affects indigenous peoples.  And we (the West, and particularly the U.S. with its “exceptionalist” mentality) does not have the stomach or the will to do that.  We are far too hubristic and arrogant.

Peace.

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By Spooky-43, March 13, 2011 at 4:33 pm Link to this comment

By RayLan, March 13 at 3:43 pm Link to this comment

“So if investigative interests in religious extremism is to remain objective and not bigoted, it should not be targeting any religion over another.”
———————————————————————————

Thanks for you input, but it is considered useless and biased.  And your use of the word bigot is becoming tiresome.  You use it for everything, like so many others on this putrid rag. 

Anyway, maybe we can investigate those evil Baptists tomorrow.  But right now, we would like to get to the bottom of what’s going on behind this “Allah Akbar” stuff and why the Islamist extremist jihadists seem to be so good at recruiting young people to strap bombs to themselves and put explosives in their underwear and automobiles.  In a world of very bad mannered people, even I, a mercenary of the worst sort, would say that that was very over-the-top.

And by the way, I am not aware of any other extremist religions strapping bombs to themselves and killing others IN THE NAME OF GOD, at least not doing it over and over and over and over again, virtually every day, virtually worldwide.  If I am wrong, please correct me with specific examples.

And I can’t remember the last time I saw an angry mob of American or European Christians demonstrating and chanting “KILL THE MUSLIMS” as I saw a group of young Morrocan Muslims screaming “KILL THE JEWS” in Europe a few months ago. 

Muslims by nature are peaceful I am told, so there has to be a principality of some sort stirring them up to go on such a rampage.  Yeah, I know they hate America and they hate israel.  It may seem somewhat justified to the casual observer.  What else is new.  I don’t particularly care for the North Koreans, but that gives me no right to recruit teenagers to blow their planes out of the sky. 

Every American I have talked to lately, including all Christians, and the overwhelming majority of military families, are sorry America is in Iraq and Afghanistan.  Nobody seems to know exactly why they are still there, given they elected a president which was supposed to end it all. 

But I know that America is not in the middle east at the request of the American people in general, and they are not there for oil.  They have half a century of oil in their own backyard.  Whatever principalities are at work in keeping Americans there against their will, it is probably the same ones who are stirring up the Muslims. 

I would have more respect for the Muslim fight if they took it to those principalities who are instigating the evil at the top and not to the general populations who are just struggling to make a living and raise their families in peace, which accounts for about 99% of the world’s population.

There is no reason for the rational, average Muslim or anyone else for that matter, to individually become motivated enough to unilaterally or in small groups attempt to kill hundreds or thousands of basically innocent people.  No one can generate that level of hate internally and unilaterally without being indoctrinated into it by power people. 

And if I had the power, I would instigate a thorough investigation into this whole matter, and it would be completely justified, as the whole world has a right to know and hold accountable those who profit from this world instability.  Is that an outrageous statement? 

I would ask why those on the left would fear or oppose of such an investigation.  The peace-loving Muslims that I know are all for it, because they know a real investigation would show them as innocent and victims themselves of these evil instigations by those of high power.

You blame America and Israel for all of this, but the average American and Isreaelite is no more evil than the average Muslim.  All are played by international principalities. 

What’s your excuse.  Are you a communist apologetic of some sort or just a Judaeo/Christian hater?

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By drbhelthi, March 13, 2011 at 2:38 pm Link to this comment

Religious scholars have historically alluded to “the heart of man” as being the source of both good and evil, with emphasis typically on the evil.  Delineating the phrase, “the heart of man”, into the human value system, is reflected by ones habitual behavior pattern, which reflects ones intent and life direction.

Not to be overlooked is the influence of the motto of the israeli MOSSAD, ”By way of deception, thou shalt do war,” has been evidenced in the military and political actions of the USGov for at least forty years. A more complete understanding of the MOSSAD is provided by the years of research presented in Gordon Thomas´s volume, “Gideon´s Spies The Secret History of the MOSSAD”. This volume also clarifies the interaction among western world spy agencies and the MOSSAD, in certain historical events. For example, the French secret service, and the U.S. N.S.A., in the contrived auto accident of princess Diana.

The gist of the MOSSAD motto is contained in the summary statement of the C.I.A. chief appointed by GHWBushSr through President Ronald Reagan. “We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.”  William Casey, CIA Director, from his first general staff meeting, 1981. As recorded by the American Patriot of Jewish faith, Mrs. Mae Brussell. She also revealed the in-progress nazification of the U.S.A. in the 1980s, advanced more recently by the Patriot Act and Dept. of Homeland Security.

This swing is characterized in the behavior of Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., who supports the scapegoating of Moslems, initiated by the GHWBushSr entourage, as one part of the artificial war on terror. Which war makes industry and the Hitler Society of the U.S.A. increasingly richer and stronger, at the expense of American freedoms, the U.S. Treasury, and the scapegoated Moslem folk - or vice-versa. While Zionists continue to destroy Palestine and Palestinians.

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By RayLan, March 13, 2011 at 11:43 am Link to this comment

The only religion that has a clean slate on violence is Quakerism as far as I know- even the peaceful Buddhists have been engaged in violent conflicts in Thailand and Sri Lanka.
So if investigative interests in religious extremism is to remain objective and not bigoted, it should not be targeting any religion over another.
Also Anti-American sentiments exist world wide across all national boundaries - even Europe.
So much smoke must strongly imply a fire. If the US is hated in needs to look into the possible causes for its having fueled such antipathies in its bellicose foreign policy against non-white races. The best examples of terrorism can be found within American borders - paramilitary fanatics and the KKK

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By Maani, March 13, 2011 at 1:13 am Link to this comment

DaveZx3:

Superbly stated!  Ideologies - religious, political, social, cultural, what have you - can (and usually will) always be hijacked by the extremists among us.  And you are so right that it comes down to what is in a person’s “heart” as to whether they get caught up in the propaganda of any extremist philosophy.

Bravo on your post.

Peace.

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By DaveZx3, March 13, 2011 at 1:01 am Link to this comment

By OzarkMichael, March 13 at 2:59 am

“The “why” that I want answered: Why does the young Muslim man “change in troubling ways”?”
——————————————————————————
Probably a rhetorical question, but I must comment anyway. 

Why would it be strange to expect that a certain percentage of individuals indoctrinated into any persuasion would act on that indoctrination to one degree or another, and some to an excessive degree?
Isn’t that the purpose of training or indoctrination?

Religions, or other institutions or activities, which indoctrinate others into violence and murder should be investigated.  Having a murderous idea is probably not prosecutable, but indoctrinating others into your murderous idea is prosecutable, in my opinion. 

Jesus Christ taught absolute non-violence, and all the great religions teach this also.  But many anti-Christ sub-religions pop up, teaching that it is man’s duty to kill the heathens, Christians, communists, capitalists, Jews, or anyone else who does not believe as they do or are not a part of their master race. 

It is delusional to think that you can ascertain the character of a man by what he calls himself.  The greatest murderers are also the greatest deceivers, often masquerading as that which they seek to destroy.  All religion is not love based, and men have invented many false gods and false religions with which they deceifully carry out their murderous acts.  Intelligent people need not be fooled by this. 

True followers of Jesus Christ do not kill other human beings. This is not negotiable.  If a man calls himself a follower of Christ, yet commits acts of murder and violence, that man is a liar as well as a criminal.

And I suppose the same goes for Muslims.  If a man calls himself a Muslim, and yet commits acts of violence, perhaps he is a liar and a criminal as well, as I understand mainstream Islam teaches non-violence also.

But the multitude of anti-Christ, anti-God, anti-human activities do actively seek converts.  It should not be considered strange that these violence and murder prone activities, whether religious, political or other in nature, are attractive to those who are not grounded in love and caring for their fellow human beings.

In the end, a man is primarily motivated by the extent of love or hatred he harbors for his fellow man.  I don’t need a congressional investigation to know that.  But if they want to investigate something, why not look into the ultimate source of hatred and murder.  What causes a man to hate another so much as to be willing to kill him? 

The price of living in a free society is that you cannot regulate hatred.  People are free to hate if they want to.  But when this hatred incites others to act on it, then big problems crop up.  But we should not be surprised when this happens.  It is not a mystery.  Hatred is the beginning of virtually all violence and murder.

“Love is all you need”

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By Maani, March 12, 2011 at 10:22 pm Link to this comment

Leefeller:

It is not my intention to play a tit-for-tat game with ITW.  I simply want to disabuse him of the notion that somehow religion (whether Jewish, Christian, Muslim or other) is any WORSE than atheism when it comes to killing people.  Even setting aside “direct murder,” the atheism-based policies of Stalin and Mao that caused the deaths of millions (if not tens of millions) are no less horrendous or vilifiable than the slaughtering of Jews and Muslims during the Christian Crusades or the millions who have died in “holy wars” over the centuries.

However, ITW’s position is, in fact, exactly the opposite of your comment: that atheists who kill are better people, because they supposedly killed less people over a longer period of time.

Peace.

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By OzarkMichael, March 12, 2011 at 9:59 pm Link to this comment

From the Truthdig article: “If King is looking for threats to our freedoms and values, a mirror would be the place to start. Here’s why. Imagine a young man, a Muslim, who changes in troubling ways.

The “why” that I want answered: Why does the young Muslim man “change in troubling ways”?

That topic is rather sensitive and politically very difficult to discuss. Even on Truthdig where the articles all encourage careful thought and everyone is intellectual and curious, one hesitates to even ask questions about the topic.

The media and the political elite instruct us to speak of two catagories and only two catagories; the “Great Majority of Peaceful Muslims” and the “Tiny Minority of Terrorists who have Hijacked Islam.”

We dont have a vocabulary to describe the many catagories of influence and intermediate worldviews involved as a young Muslim man “changes in troubling ways” from the “Peaceful Majority” to the “Terrorist Minority”. The vague term “fundamentalism” was in vogue for awhile but it seems to be out of fashion in Washington now. 

There is no word for the forces that cause or prevent the changes, which either push one way or pull the other except perhaps “Normalcy” vs “Radicalization”.  There is no word or concept for the intermediate catagories in between “Peaceful person” and “Terrorist person.” The young Muslim man simply makes a quantum leap from one catagory to the other.

Oh sure, everyone “knows” there are “signs” of that leap and i suppose the hearings will focus on that. But this congressional hearing will not do any good because it cannot suddenly invent the words it needs to have an intelligent conversation.

If you dont have words for something, I believe you cant think clearly about it. With only vague intuitions, you cant have dialogue. And you certainly cant have broad cultural communication that leads to understanding and consensus which supports a wise policy.

Its been a decade since 9/11 and we dont have a clue of what is going on or what to do about it.  We are instead satisfied with our liberal and/or conservative platitudes.

A sketch of the liberal thought: We blame ourselves for why the “the young Muslim man changes” and so we deserve whatever punishment is inflicted on us. The hearings themselves only make us worthy of more punishment.

The conservative approach: We blame foreign influences for why “the young Muslim man changes” and so foreign people need punishment, and that means dropping bombs on them and “boots on the ground” somewhere. We eye Muslims in America with suspicion, the hearings themselves are a form of punishment upon them.

The Truthdig approach: All Religions produce Fundamentalists, which is the equivalent of violent people. Since Christianity is the worst offender, any act of Terrorism by anyone of any faith is an opportunity to blame Christians, and if we could somehow punish Christianity itself we would do so.

Neither the liberal nor conservative nor Truthdig approach solves the problem, neither approach has any clue to the real forces involved, and neither approach answers the question “why?” about the young Muslim man who changes.
 
The reason we have no “why”, or even words to use to discuss “why” is that such questions are forbidden and there are penalties if you ask.

If you dont believe me, go ahead and try…  but you will pay a price. You will be called ‘racist’ and ‘Islamophobic’. You will be blamed for making matters worse by the liberals, because your sin is what calls forth the Terrorist’s punishment.

You will be blamed by conservatives for treason, for siding with the enemy. You will be blamed by Truthdiggers for promoting the greatest evil that the world has ever seen, namely Christianity, and if you are a Christian Fundamentalist you will be viewed as practically a terrorist yourself.

Not only in the Middle Ages, but in every Era it is always the Cat that causes the Plague.

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By Leefeller, March 12, 2011 at 8:12 pm Link to this comment

What I gather, from this enlightening thread, Christians who kill are better people, because they supposedly killed less people over a longer period of time and that alleged atheists raised the Christians one eye for two?

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By Maani, March 12, 2011 at 6:44 pm Link to this comment

ITW:

We will have to agree to disagree, since I find it almost breathtakingly arrogant for you to make such a comment about “my” scholars.  Given that this subject has been among my major studies for over 20 years (both before and after I became a minister), you cannot possibly know how many books, by how many historians - of all stripes (atheists, agnostics, believers, etc.) - I have read.  Trust me, it is about as broad and extensive as can possibly be.

As for Hitler, you and I have been down this road before.  Hitler was a pagan who “used” Christianity to achieve his ends.  You forget that Hitler’s plan was the creation of a “master race” of “Aryans.”  But “Aryan” is a bloodline, not a religion.  Thus, Christians were no safer than Jews.  Indeed, in a mid-1930s speech to the party faithful, Hitler stated, “It is through the peasantry that we will finally destroy Christianity.  One can be a German or a Christian, but not both.”  Thus, once the “final solution” had been completed, Hitler’s next goal was the destruction of Christians.  In fact, don’t forget that over 2 million Christians were murdered by him. As well, at one point he had 90% of all the parish priests in Prussia rounded up and jailed.  Only 10% survived.  And he was actively moving to take over the Protestant church - in order to dismantle it.

As for his claimed “Catholicism,” he had zero love for the Pope: although it is true that the Pope himself did little or nothing to help the Jews, the Pope WAS turning a blind eye to those Catholic priests who WERE helping Jews.  And Hitler knew this, and was furious.  Given this, it is highly likely that Hitler would have moved on the Vatican if he had the chance.

But perhaps more important than all of this is his claim of being a “Christian.”  What IS a Christian?  It is someone who follows Christ.  And what did Christ preach?  Love, peace, forgiveness, compassion, humility, patience, charity, selflessness, service, justice, truth.  However, Hitler was the POLAR OPPOSITE of ALL of these: unloving, warlike, unforgiving, lacking in compassion, arrogant (indeed, megalomaniacal), impatient, uncharitable, selfish, conceited, unjust and a liar.

Given this, by what rubric can you claim that Hitler was a “Christian,” no matter what he CLAIMED?

Peace.

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By AmishEcstasy, March 12, 2011 at 6:33 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Hey ‘yo Peter let give you hunch here big guy. The REAL terrorists of this country are living right in YOUR district. They’re the Wall Street bankers that robbed this country’s working people of their life’s savings and retirement and then got a bailout.What do ‘ya say you start looking into how THEY ruined this country instead of scapegoating the Muslims again? What’s that you say Peter,the Wall Street bankers that are your constituents are your largest campaign donors? Oh never mind.
All politicians are against crime in street as long as the street there talking about isn’t Wall Street
George Carlin

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By Gary, March 12, 2011 at 3:35 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Not one person ever died or was killed in the name of atheism.  Claiming mustaches are a marker for dictators that kill would be as silly.

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By Inherit The Wind, March 12, 2011 at 8:47 am Link to this comment

Maani,
I don’t know where you get your numbers but your scholars have ignored the vast numbers of wrongful deaths induced in the new world, not to mention sub-saharan Africa. DeSoto went up the Mississippi and 50 years later all the villages were wiped out by European diseases. Cortez was able to conquer the Aztecs because smallpox and measles, for which they had no resistance, devastated them.

And the numbers for the Communists are inflated by right wingers.  I had one of the most eminent scholars of Russian and Soviet history, Sidney Harcave, and the numbers HE cited were in the 5-10 million range killed in the Stalinist terrors.  He brought in a Ukrainian ex-pat to speak who claimed that Stalin caused over 100 million deaths…who would YOU doubt?

Hitler was by no means an Atheist.  He was, in fact, a Catholic who adapted much of pagan symbology into National Socialism…but then again, Christianity had be doing that since its infancy, converting local pagan gods into saints.  Hitler retained the principle Christian holidays and celebrated them.

It’s long been an attempt for Christians to try to dis-associate themselves from Hitler.  I don’t blame them.  One of the reasons I’m not an Atheist is that too many Atheists take the Stalinist position that one must accept the non-existence of God on faith…and I don’t accept “faith” as a valid source of knowledge, wisdom or inspiration, though billions do.

Also, a CLOSE study of Stalin shows that he retained most of the trappings of his Russian Orthodox upbringing, something Lenin had totally rejected.  Stalin saw himself as a demi-god, selected by whatever forces.  He was described by the writers of the period as the “greatest genius in history”...not the mark of one who denies deity in his heart.

Similarly, Mao, for all HIS trappings saw himself in the great Chinese tradition of establishing a new dynasty, under the VERY ancient ideas of the Divine Right of Kings—and he lived as one, indulging his perverted pedophilism. 

True, both Stalin and Mao described themselves as “Atheists”, but that’s in the same line as Qaddaffi describing himself as Muslim…neither reflects the PRINCIPLES of the belief system any more than the actions of the Catholic Church from 375 to 1750 reflected the teachings of Jesus in any way, shape or form.

Furthermore, does one blame the 20 million deaths of Soviet citizens in WWII on Hitler or on Stalin?  The former started the war, the latter destroyed his general staff, and sacrificed his soldiers as cannon fodder.

I stand by my original assertion.

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By DaveZx3, March 12, 2011 at 3:13 am Link to this comment

“Those who study jihad will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world. All the countries conquered by Islam or to be conquered in the future will be marked for everlasting salvation. For they shall live under [God’s law].”

“Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those are witless. Islam says: Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by [the unbelievers]? Islam says: Kill them, put them to the sword and scatter [their armies]. ...Islam says: Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to paradise, which can be opened only for holy warriors!”

“Islam Is Not a Religion of Pacifists” (1942)Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini
======================================================

Islamists have always said straight up what they are all about.  There are infinite writings on the subject, infinite websites on the subject and they go on record via all types of media.  For anyone who does any cursory reading on the subject, there can be no misunderstanding exactly what Islam is up to. 

That is not to say that there are not “secular Islamists” who don’t read anything about what they are involved in, but just go along for the ride.  Kind of like the millions of Christians who only go to church on Easter, mostly to wear their new spring clothes.

If I was making it up, you could call me a bigot, but I just collect this stuff.  Would you like me to give you more quotes from my extensive 20 year collection? 

There is no need to be ignorant on the subject when the leaders of the movement tell you straight out what they are up to, over and over and over and over again. 

The real “madmen” build sand castles on the beach with their back to the water.  And there is a 100 foot tsunami rising on the horizon, but they refuse to acknowledge it, preferring to live in their delusions. 

If Peter King wants to investigate the extent that the moderate, law-abiding Muslim community buys into the volumes of extremist, jihadist literature, I find that a lot less unusual than spending federal money on the Cowboy Poetry Festival in Nevada.

Senator McCarthy’s investigation of Soviet communism’s infiltration of US media, entertainment and education was also valid, but the classification of the Venona files made it impossible to bring the truth to light.  Now that these files are declassified, anyone can read exactly what was happening and why McCarthy was right on regarding his concerns. 

But history rarely rights itself, and thus, Robinson can use the memetic, derogatory term “McCarthyite probe” to compare King’s investigation to. 

Everything is spin, and everybody believes whatever their masters have them believe.  But in the end, the tsunami does hit, and everyone’s little sand castles are completely wiped out, along with all those who insist on living in them.

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By Maani, March 12, 2011 at 3:03 am Link to this comment

ardee/ITW:

You seem not to know your history very well.  The estimated number of all those killed “in the name of religion,” including religious wars, Crusades, inquisitions, witch burnings, terrorist acts, etc. - in all of recorded history - is ~75 million.  This figure (or similar) is found in the work of a majority of scholars who have studied this subject. (I have read most of them.)

Yet Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot - atheists all - were responsible for the deaths (directly or by policy) of over 135 million people - and, as OzarkMichael points out, they did all this killing in just 75 years!  And if we add in Hitler - who was a pagan, NOT a Christian (despite Mein Kampf, and his cynical “use” of Christianity to justify his ends) - and his 13 million, this comes to ~150 million murdered or killed in just 75 years.

As Daniel Patrick Moynihan said, “Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.”

Peace.

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By gerard, March 12, 2011 at 12:50 am Link to this comment

Anyway, my Dad can beat up on your Dad, so there!

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By Queenie, March 12, 2011 at 12:27 am Link to this comment

Give King enough rope he will hang himself and show just who is the real enemy.

The madmen have taken over the asylum.

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By Inherit The Wind, March 11, 2011 at 9:28 pm Link to this comment

Atheism is the worst killer?  By my estimate Christianity is responsible for at LEAST 110 million wrongful deaths over its history—40 million alone due to the insane superstitious policies that allowed the Black Plague to devastate Europe.  How? The Church declared cats to be “familiars” of the Devil.  Cats were destroyed, and the rat population, formerly controlled by the cats, exploded, and with it, their fleas.  And these fleas carried Plague.  But it’s even better: Those fleas came back with rats from the Crusades….

Next we can discuss all the wrongful deaths Christianity brought to the “New World” from Europe.

And I haven’t even talked about the deaths from the Crusades and Inquisitions.

And who can even estimate how many wrongful deaths came from the Church’s deliberate enforcement of ignorance and illiteracy among the lay population?

Even the vast slaughters of Stalin and Mao pale next to what the Church wrought from 375 AD to 1750 AD.

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By ardee, March 11, 2011 at 9:21 pm Link to this comment

OzarkMichael, March 12 at 12:01 am Link to this comment

An atheist said: “The fundamentalist branches of ALL religions are violent, nasty, hateful people. Historically, christianity is the bloodthirstiest…”

I do not know to which atheist you ascribe this comment but I find it rather pointedly accurate. More violence has been committed, throughout the centuries, in the name of one religion or another. I would also offer that it was generally not the extreme believers but the mainstream orthodoxy committing said violence, especially true of Catholicism. I would offer the name Tomas de Torquemada as exhibit one.


Historically, when it comes to dealing death, atheism was able to outdo the all the branches of all religions of all time.

Far too cryptic, frankly, to be commented upon. Any riposte I would offer would be based upon the assumption that I know what you meant here. I am a student of history, yet, in all my readings I know of no organized atheistic pogrom, slaughter or magnitude of murder ascribed to said disbelief..

I could speculate that you refer to “godless communists” or some such nebulous and propagandized right wing mantra/fable but that would not be fair.

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By gerard, March 11, 2011 at 8:43 pm Link to this comment

Since we know that radicalism occurs among a minority people of all religious and poliltical persuasioins, why aren’t we interested in investigating why radicalization itself occurs?
Do we really want to know the roots of radicalization so we can try to prevent people going off the deep end whether Christian, Muslim or what?

No, probably we don’t want to know, because the information is available, more or less, by studying human psychology and the universal tendency to insist that we are right and they are wrong, dangerous, misled, crazy etc.

One reason we have so many problems is that we refuse to accept findings that lead toward tolerance and prefer to cling to unfounded beliefs and prejudices which encourage us to vear others, and destruction.  Investigative committees run by biased politicians looking to build their popularity among ignorant constituencies is all too common. After Muslims, it will be you and your church or group or political party.  The defense of one is the defense of all.  Besides, these investigations are a huge betrayal of justice, a destroyer of democracy and a total waste of taxpayers’ money.
  I’d like to think everybody who writes here knows this, but sad to say ......

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By bogi666, March 11, 2011 at 8:07 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Peter “King” of the Jews is auditioning for the Messiah. The “King” of the Jews, Peter, defends this charade as being in accordance with American values. The problem is that he’s a Zionist firster and the values he defends for his misconduct has nothing to do with “mom and apple pie” Americanism. The “King” of the Jews is being bribed by the Zionists and as usual at American taxpayers expense, to create fears in an effort to funnel the $20 billion that Israel wants from the USG.

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By OzarkMichael, March 11, 2011 at 7:01 pm Link to this comment

An atheist said: “The fundamentalist branches of ALL
religions are violent, nasty, hateful people. Historically, christianity is the bloodthirstiest…”


Historically, when it comes to dealing death, atheism was able to outdo the all the branches of all religions of all time.

And it only took about 75 years for them to do it! So if you must have prejudice against anyone, you ought have prejudice against yourself, and put yourself at the top of “violent, nasty, hateful people” bloodthirsty list.

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By call me roy, March 11, 2011 at 6:11 pm Link to this comment

Sure Eugene, think you might me drinking too much to much of whatever the lame stream is serving over there on the hardly watched MSNBC?

Indonesia Muslim cleric charged with terrorism says I was only defending Islam
If this trial were to result in an honest and open examination of why Abu Bakar Bashir thinks his actions inciting violence and terror are in accord with Islamic teaching, that would be all to the good. But it probably won’t.
“Terrorism charges denied: ‘I was only defending Islam,’” by Karlis Salna for AP, February 15 (thanks to David):
JAKARTA: The Indonesian Muslim cleric Abu Bakar Bashir yesterday denied being the leader of a terrorist network found training in Aceh, and said a string of fresh charges against him had been fabricated and that he was simply defending Islam….
Hundreds of vocal supporters were at the court, but were outnumbered by heavily armed police. Police said 2000 officers had been deployed to the area.
Commenting from his cell before the hearing, Bashir rejected the allegations, saying they were ‘‘all made up’‘.
‘‘I did nothing. I was only defending Islam,’’ he said.
The most serious charges include planning and/or inciting a terrorist act, and trafficking in weapons and explosives for the purpose of conducting terrorism, both of which carry a maximum penalty of death.
However, it is the charge of supplying funds for terrorism, which carries a jail term of between three and 15 years, for which it appears the prosecution has the strongest evidence, including statements from a number of Bashir’s associates from Jemaah Ansharut Tauhid (JAT)....
He later said that the charges were the result of pressure from the United States. ‘‘It’s wrong, it’s what America wants. I am feared by America. I am considered as al-Qaeda here,’’ he said while being escorted back to his cell at police headquarters in Jakarta.
Prosecutors allege the Aceh terrorist network planned to assassinate President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, as well as attack foreign interests, specifically US citizens and Jews.

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By call me roy, March 11, 2011 at 6:08 pm Link to this comment

Sure Eugene, As a survivor of the horrible sixties; I still can vividly recall leftist professors constantly raving about how bad America was; how bad Christianity was; how bad traditional family life was (that came especially from professors who were seducing their female students); how bad the military was; how bad white people were especially white males; how bad the Republican parts was; they began the onslaught which has only become worse. Now as these crazy lefties look around while wagging their long grey pony tailed locks they can find no innocent group to victimize with their hate centered religion of rejection; now they are desparate because of the failures of all their social engineering plans; war on poverty, tax the businessses; intergration, forced busing, weak military; fatherless families and the list goes on and on. They have to face that they are the biggest group of failures in history and it must hurt.

Islam No One At The Mosque Saw A Problem
Misunderstander of Islam who bombed London on July 7, 2005 was active in local mosque and dawah efforts
And yet no one in the mosque seems to have stopped him and told him that his understanding of the Religion of Peace™ was all wrong, wrong, wrong.
“7/7 inquests: gang ringleader tried to convert schoolboy to Islam,” by Duncan Gardham in the Telegraph, February 14:
The leader of the July 7 bombers tried to convert a boy under his care to Islam, the inquest into the bombings has heard.
Mohammed Sidique Khan was working as a learning mentor in a primary school in Beeston, Leeds when he took the pupil under his wing.
The inquest was told about the background of the bombers and how they became radicalised for the first time, starting with Sidique Khan.
He was said to be well liked at Hillside Primary School by parents, staff and pupils and was described as “almost like a father” to those from broken homes.
“One pupil became quite close to him and Khan would take him around to his associates and try to interest him in the Muslim faith,” Hugo Keith QC, counsel for the inquest said.
Acting Det Insp Peter Sparks explained how the young man was taken to the Iqra bookshop in Beeston, which Sidique Khan and others used as somewhere to sell Islamic literature, use computers and talk about Islam.
“Khan had tried to persuade [the pupil] on numerous occasions to convert to Islam,” DI Sparks said.
The inquest heard later that the child was as young as 11 or 12 when he was told “people will pay for what has been done to Pakistan” along with comments about September 11 during a conversation in Sidique Khan’s car[.]...
On another occasion Sidique Khan was asked if he could arrange a speaker for the school to talk about the Koran, but the man talked with such “fervour” that the other staff became concerned.
He was brought up as a Muslim by his father but “turned out to be more religious” than his siblings, according to statements by the family to police.
At Hardy Street mosque, attended by his family, he organised trips for local children and set up activities in the countryside, the inquest heard.
“He was providing mentoring really for the youngsters coming into the mosque,” DI Sparks told the hearing. “He was very much looked up to.”...

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By felicity, March 11, 2011 at 5:20 pm Link to this comment

Under Jim Crow being black, just being black was to be
denied the social and political rights that other
Americans enjoyed.  And now being a Muslim, just being
a Muslim will mean that you do not stand equal before
the law. You will be suspected of being a terrorist and
until you can prove otherwise the charge will stand.

We’ve come a long way, baby.

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By Leefeller, March 11, 2011 at 3:53 pm Link to this comment

Investigations are real important in order to see if they can come up with stuff. How else would they know if there was any stuff happening, if they did not investigate it?

As far as the fear thing goes, I am afraid to go out side during a full moon, I have heard terrible things happen during the full moon. It has been reported Republicans like to be out during the full moon and do some real strange stuff, even worser things than the stuff they do in public and what they do during the day time. I cannot talk about what Republicans do during the a full moon here, because it has something to do with some real strange stuff, which I really believe is true, just from watching those Republicans during the day time…... I am tired of living in fear and since I do not know any of those Muslims, I know that cannot be good,..... now that I think of it, I do not know any Amish either, maybe they do stuff? Thinking about it, I do know a few Catholics and their stuff, don’t look so good either!

We need to focus on and investigate those real strange and abnormal differences,.....So!.... I say lets investigate anyone who is not just like me!

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By drbhelthi, March 11, 2011 at 3:49 pm Link to this comment

The intensity of Mr. King´s sincerety, in all his unfounded undertakings, is a clear signal that genuine Republicans should call in mental health profis for assistance in his situation.
Or, remove him.
Promptly.
Otherwise, he may even start quoting “Newsmax” of Florida, the GHWBushSr entourage mouthpiece.

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By Jimnp72, March 11, 2011 at 3:34 pm Link to this comment

the war on:  the working poor, the gutting of education, clean air,
the EPA, Planned Parenthood, Social Security, job creation, fair
elections, financial regulation, sustainable energy, unions,
Polarize, divide and conquer, etc., etc., etc.
we have a large block of terrorists in this country and they call
themselves republicans.

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By TDoff, March 11, 2011 at 1:28 pm Link to this comment

Peter King’s next hearing should be into the terrorist activities of the Catholic Church, which has attacked many children both here in the U.S. and in Ireland, as well as elsewhere. Interestingly, in the Pope’s new book, the Pope states that violence in the name of ‘god’ or religion is actually the work of, and should be attributed to, the anti-Christ. That’s damned interesting, I’ll bet a lot of folks thought that all those child-raping priests worked for ‘Mother’ Church, at the top of which hierarchy sits the Pope, hisownself, and never thought of the Pope as doing the work of the anti-Christ.

Think again!

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By godistwaddle, March 11, 2011 at 1:03 pm Link to this comment

Well, freedom of religion in the U.S. has always been
freedom for protestants.  The KKK targeted catholics
and jews as well as blacks, and the mormons had to have
a “revelation” conveniently disavowing polygamy to get
statehood.  The fundamentalist branches of ALL
religions are violent, nasty, hateful people. 
Historically, christianity is the bloodthirstiest
institution ever invented.  Islam is 700 years behind,
but some muslims seem to want to catch up.

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By TDoff, March 11, 2011 at 12:28 pm Link to this comment

Too bad there is no longer a permanent House Un-American Activities Committee, Peter King’s ‘hearings’ would be their #1 target.

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By DavidByron, March 11, 2011 at 12:15 pm Link to this comment

Honestly it doesn’t say much for Muslims if they rat out their fellows like that.

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By jlt, March 11, 2011 at 11:55 am Link to this comment

Perhaps a bit of truth to the lies: king and his committee have added more propaganda to the AlQueada bag of tricks..Shameless


Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.-Voltaire

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/03/09/king-muslims-plots-terrorists/

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By sam, March 11, 2011 at 9:44 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It is Mr. King who should be tried for his active support of the IRA and his complicity that led to the killing of so many innocent. What really shocks me is that the media has failed to digtruth up on this fear mongerer.  Is it because it will open a can of worms and reveal how widespread this practice of supporting the IRA was and implicate many more, perhaps some in the media too? It is so much easier to demonize others when “others” look different than yourself but much more difficult if others are your kin. It is when we cross this bridge can we call ourselves seekers of truth.

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By Go Right Young Man, March 11, 2011 at 9:06 am Link to this comment

Mr. Robinson,

Its pure hysterics to call yesterday’s hearing McCarthyism, an inquisition, or a witch-hunt. The charge itself, in my view, is politically motivated partisan nonsense. Particularly in that you made the charge before the hearing even began. After the hearing you’ve simply taken the event and manipulated it into your preconceived narrative.

There have been three recent congressional hearings on the very same subject. Two of these hearings Chaired by democrats. Yet only one of them is a Witch-Hunt?

I’m sorry to be so blunt but, that’s simply being gullible.

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By ardee, March 11, 2011 at 8:29 am Link to this comment

We need two mirrors I think. One for the execrable Mr.King, who has forgotten, if indeed he ever knew, what makes a nation and its people great. But we need another as well, for ourselves, as we stand by and allow such as King to lead us.

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By gerard, March 11, 2011 at 3:22 am Link to this comment

How about a bit of “confessional investigation” of Mr. King—who is supporting him and encouraging him and what interests do they represent?  Is he taking contribiutions from some source whose interests are in dividing public opinion and creating fear and injustice?  Who is publicizing him and why?  Who supports those publications and media outlets?  Who is going to profit from these hearings?  If Obama doesn’t support King’s
“investigations”, will he lose votes?  If he does support him, will he lose votes?  Will Democratic opposition to the hearings lose votes for Obama.  Again, as always, it’s a case of “follow the money” and watch who gains and who loses.
  Such things promote national insecurity, don’t they?

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